Quixtar BLOG Discussion

This article appeared on The Truth About Amway Blog:

Amway Australia - Some say it's Dying, others Grow Anyway
Written by IBOFightBack
Tuesday, 01 July 2008

Former Quixtar Executive Diamond Orrin Woodward, aided and abetted by an anonymous commenter claiming to be an Amway Australia IBO (whom I suspect is former Executive Diamond Trevor Chatham), has been taking a swipe at Amway Australia quite a bit in some recent blog posts. The anonymous commentator has made various false claims, for example that "the REALITY is that 95% of those who have managed to reach Diamond once, never again reach that level of 6 Platinum IBOs".
This was easily proven false by a quick check on Amway Wiki which showed that nearly one third of Amway Australia diamonds have gone on to qualify at levels higher than Diamond! Clearly you can't do that if you've never requalified at Diamond. The commentator also claimed that Amway Australia sales reached a high of $290 million in 1993. At the time Amway Australia was part of a publicly listed company, Amway Asia Pacific Ltd. Again, as easily found on Amway Wiki, Amway Australia sales for 1993 were actually nearly half that - $148 million.
Two clearly and provably false statements. What else has he said that is wrong
(end of excerpt)

Click the link and read the whole article:
http://www.thetruthaboutamway.com/index ... w/9476/90/

Now, how is that for you "tired of speculation junkies". He goes on to say, he can tell who the anonymous poster is by his writing style.? I'd agree with that. So we know Insider probably has YOUR writing style down too!

But the main reason I'm inquiring here, is this: the claim that Diamonds do not re-qualify. We KNOW that does happen. The question is "HOW MUCH does it happen"?

His argument that 1/3 re-qualify HIGHER does not seem to meet my standards of "Average Diamond"; what about the middle of the pack? Median is the midway point, each being 50% above or below the MIDDLE.
Who cares about the TOP one third, these guys have probably been around for decades and get points for every new pin clear across the board. Let's look at the Diamonds with only a few YEARS since they 1st qualified?

By the way, does anyone KNOW what you need to do to re-qualify every year? Is it 6 legs at 7500 for just one month, 3 months or more?

One former (USA) Double Diamond mentioned his business was "going backwards" since the mid 90's. I suppose he had so much volume, that even going backwards he still qualified at a Double Diamond. But how about a NEW or NEWER Diamond?

It wouldn't take much "going backwards" to put a newer Diamond out of qualification? Yet, they are still referred to as "Diamond". Once a diamond always a Diamond. If your business goes backwards, just "Don't ask and don't tell"

ibofightback did say on my blog -- and both he, Tex, and I agreed -- that he would like Amway to annually list all qualified high pins (Emeralds, Diamonds, and above). They'd be provided a grace period (1-2 years) to requalify if they fall under.

Of course, this hasn't happened, and the corp no doubt has reasons not to do this. There are benefits to being a private company, and Amway Global has made good use of non-disclosure over the years.

Insider HAS to say that. It is the politcally correct thing to say, and he is saying it NOW since the practice is becoming more widely KNOWN, and the numbers of non qualifiers might be shockingly HIGHER than people thought.

I don't recall him saying that when he was posting HERE. In fact I seem to remember him DEFENDING and CONDONING the practice.

I don't remember all the examples he gave but it was something like: if you were a Mafia "Don", you are always referrred to as Don _________ , even if you were no longer the "Don"....

Never the less, he has a right to RECONSIDER his position on this, and I applaud that he is FINALLY seeing the CRITICS point of view.

I'm sure the government in England demanded some new rules about that. If they did not, then they SHOULD.

As I mentioned elsewhere, shortly before I left, they were starting to introduce "those that achieved this level.... at least once". That was a step in the right direction.

The bottom line, they try to make this business LOOK better than it actually IS.

But 3 cheers for "Transparency", as long as it doesn't come in the form of some SMALL print disclaimer like "The average Ibo earns $115 per month" under a picture of their yacht and mansion.

As far as Tex goes, he LIKES tool sales, just does not like to PAY for someone's "intellectual property". He wants them to manufacture and distribute for COST. He thinks you can live off the residuals from PB-BV$. In the meantime I don't see him out building any retail sales. He wants the Pyramid, and the benefits of the "Pyramid" for FREE.

It would be 6 legs at 7500 for 6 months, and last I knew, 3 of those months had to be consecutive.

A "Founder's Diamond" would be someone who qualifies 12 months of the year.

Deb

One of the arguments used here was that a diamond, even one who fell out, could still teach you to qualify for diamond.

in that case I could cut a guy some slack, but there might be Diamonds that haven't hit the pv marks even once

What you would find probably, is that for every new platinum or diamond, there would be a platinum or diamond failing to re-qualify.

I brought up this point and a certain "supporter" of amway apparently disagreed. If the platinum level does not have enough stability to provide a walk away residual income, then neither does the diamond level.

One only has to look at the people going on the amway trips to see who is qualifying. When we went to als each year most of the diamonds were sitting in economy class. For amway Australia to fly a diamond first class they must be currently qualifying. Many of the diamonds don't even qualify for the emerald-plus trip, meaning that they aren't currently qualfying emerald and in speaking of the emerald-plus trip - most of the people wearing emerald pins don't go either. To be invited for the emerald-plus trip one must be a current "ebr" - that it an emerald bonus recipient that year. Basically this means one must have three in country qualifying legs. One can qualify emerald with two in country leg and one international leg but in such case you only get the pin not the emerald bonus.

As for the stability of the business - when we first qualified platinum, we were told (by our upline and "the system" in general) - "welcome to the bottom, you are now just getting started". As we went on to higher pins and began breaking legs we were then told - "a leg isn't secure until you have an emerald backed up by an another emerald in it". The strange thing is that in our experience our upline had such a leg in our case .. an emerald backed up by an emerald with approximately 50 silvers or above, including about 30 platinums, in the leg. Today, that leg is almost completely gone. Both emeralds are gone and all but one of the platinums. In fact - I would not be surprised if the leg is struggling to qualify platinum at all.

I am always a little sad when I see a gung-ho ibo posting comments such as - "I am going diamond and then I will be financially independent and never have to work another day for the rest of my life". I am sad because I think to myself - little do they know the truth that lies ahead of them. They have no idea of the actual work it takes to build and maintain a business qualifying at the higher pins and we all know that their upline and the system is going to hold such truths close until the person is so heavilly committed that their choice to walk away is almost an impossible one to make.

I think there are folks who have 6 shaky legs, and with the proper pushing/deals/juggling....manage to qualify ONCE as a Diamond. But that's OK, since they're interested in the TOOL MONEY at the Diamond level - the product sales bonuses from Amway are secondary.

Some folks have done jail time for trying (illegally) to build a flash-in-the-pan Diamondship; but it shows how desperate they were to hit that pin level.

This would be particularly true if one participated in "stacking" - where their income would be marginal at best.....why worry about products when the REAL MONEY comes from the AMO??

Deb

We know of some diamonds who qualified once and did not maintain it, yet cashed in on the tools. You can certainly understand some of these folks will do almost anything to qualify.