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July 21, 2008
Is this what it has come to?
By Truth in Miscellaneous
When I first started blogging about Amway and Quixtar there were a number of blogs and sites about this opportunity and each seemed to have it's own niche. Quixtar Blog seemed to be one that broke stories, had a variety of different weekly posts. Monday Reader Mail, Farcial Help Desk, etc, etc. xanadu had his infamous blog that broke down the tapes and the BS that was on them, Quixtar Demons went to town on WWDB group, and of course On the Road with Dave was and still is a unique blog with an active IBO who was not on either side per se, just really sensible about the whole thing.
Today while approving comments I received two comments that caught my attention. First one was from "whoz" (Scott Larsen) and the second from "joecool". Larsen's comment was about all the sites that Insider (David Steadson) apparently owns, and joecool made a comment that the article on Larsen's site was in his opinion "The Smoking Gun" that Steadson is on the Amway corporation payroll for what he does on the net.
Well no doubt I found the words "The Smoking Gun" interesting and so I headed over to Larsen's site to get the 411 (sorry, my teen told me I needed to try and talk more cool). I was thinking what could he possibly have, bank statements? wire transfers? corporate memo? communications between Steadson and Amway? Much to my dismay I found a bunch of information I already knew for quite sometime. Insider aka IBOFightback aka David Steadson owns many blogs and has a ton of videos on YouTube. The article pretty much tried to paint a picture that it is next to impossible that someone would have this much time to do what is being done without getting paid.
Well before I go any further first of all I have no idea if Insider is paid for what he does. Seems to me he is not, but I could be wrong. Second not one part of that article was anything near resembling a "smoking gun" in my opinion. A list of sites and some speculation does not a smoking gun make.
I decided to go ahead and look into all those sites that Insider is claimed to run since they were all nice and listed there for me to copy and paste in my browser. The first thing I noticed is that many of those sites are blogspot which means they are free to own and operate. From the other sites I can't imagine a burden of cost that is all that great. So now the only thing to look into was the amount of time that was being spent.
Obviously the biggest chunk was the blogspot blogs that were created and so I checked into those first. Out of all of the free blogs I found a total of 81 posts, most blogs have been up for a year with only two being 3-4 years. Even so if you divide 81 posts by 52 weeks in a year that means Insider posted 1.5 times a week. Not very hard to do. Larsen also referred to Insider as a "frequent" editor of the Wikipedia Amway listing. A quick check over there showed roughly 29 edits in a year, which translates to about .5 edits a week. Yet again, not hard to do, and hardly what I would call "frequent".
The other sites owned by Insider seem to be what takes up the bulk of his time spent on this issue. First you have this Truth about Amway site, this is a site that I check out from time to time and I can say for sure that new articles are not going up everyday on the blog, and many of the other articles are cookie cut from news headlines about Amway.
The Amway Watch site is (or was supposed to be) about Amway news only with no other kind of commentary. At least that is what I was told in a private message when I inquired about it. Again most of the articles seem to be cut from headlines with news about Amway or Quixtar. But just for Insider don't think I didn't notice the links at the bottom to many "commentary" articles as well. Something I was told was not going to be part of the site.
Finally Amway Talk and Amway Wiki are the other sites. Amway Talk is a forum and I think that is self-explanatory. Amway Wiki could use up a great deal of time, but I also know there are others who are posting and editing at that site as well. Certainly not a one man effort.
Now don't get me wrong I am no fan of Insider. I have discussions with him on his site from time to time and just recently got on him for trying to paint the conclusion that Larsen makes big coin from his site ads. I also refer to him sarcastically on this site from time to time as well. In my opinion he is the master of the Amway spin, and can usually spin his way out of anything. In the end if you are honest with yourself you have to have to give him a little respect cause he won't back down and he isn't your average everyday drive-by commenter like so many other IBOs who comment on this site.
In the end I have to ask the question "Is this what is has come to?" As far as I am concerned I believe there are still issues with this business and abuses going on in Lines of Sponsorship. Matter of fact from some of the comments and e-mails I get I know it is still going on. But from both sides (Insider included) it seems anything will do when trying to paint a conclusion about others on the web. From comparing critics to jihadists, and posting such vile things that even a Quixtar corporate blogger calls you a cyber-bully, to others wanting "some sort of medal" for their delusional self-promotion of victory over another site, comparing Amway to Nazis, and agreeing with any sort of article, even though ten minutes of research would show it has no foundation, just because you dislike the person it was written about. Frankly, it's all starting to get just a bit ridiculous.
Comments
I would like to clarify that I don't necessarily think that insider is paid by the corporation. In my opinion, I said "smoking gun" because even the most avid critics don't run multiple blogs and spends that much time commenting, posting and reading.
Some of insider's blogs do not allow comments but simply direct the reader to his main blog. Is this his strategy to drive up traffic? Is he google bombing?
Also, let's not forget his google alerts that directs him to comment on just about any new blog about amway or quixtar. He also runs his own blog on myspace.com where he goes under tha handle of "IBO" and states that he is from Trinidad and Tobago.
It would just seem unlikely that anyone with a "life" would spend that much time defending a business that he himself hasn't been able to achieve any significance in.
I hope I'm not speaking "out of school" or betraying any kind of trust with Insider(Dave Steadson) when I say that on my trip to Prague I had the opportunity to observe many conversations with The Blogger's 5 including Insider and several principals of Alticor Corporate PR...at no time did I ever witness the slightest *wink wink, nudge nudge* between Insider and the PR guys that would remotely insinuate that Insider was paid or "fed" lines or stories by Alticor corporate.
I even recall some friendly disagreements.
Certainly, not proof positive but it seems that Larsen is just like Steadson. They BOTH have time on their hands enough to be Internet activists and they are both just passionate about their cause.
I don't understand how they keep it up.
Dave
I know insider has criticized the corporation at times, but he never has anything bad to say about network 21.
Thank you!
Yup, we seem to have lost focus.
Fastshutter said it best.
In any heated internet discussion, ppl will be called Nazis, communists, racists, terrorists. Seen that. Even done that. Resistance is futile ;)
To reiterate: I don't have any interest in PR Hack theories, or WSG stuff.
Orrin was commenting other day? Now that was awesome.
Having had many years to ponder and reconcile my past in the business, I've decided to start blogging about my experiences and opinions about the Amquix opportunity.
And, while I touch upon many of the topics that have been raised before, I hope to shed some additional critical insight, especially with regards to the INA System that I was a part of.
Yes - it has come to this. We are a self-licking ice cream cone.
Because - what else is there to talk about? We certainly don't have anything to complain about anymore because:
- All the great and wonderful changes that Amway is doing to fix all the problems.
- There isn't a tool scam anymore, if there even ever was one.
- All AMOs have suddenly become nonabusive, not just 'the' good ones who never were.
- Amway's products have broken into the mainsteam instead of never leaving the pyramid.
All things that if you follow insider, you'd think were 100% right-on.
All things that if you have a minute grasp of reality, you'd know there isn't a single substantial change other than the Am/Quix/Am name shuffle.
There's a blanket 'bitter broke loser' that can be thrown on critics. There's a blanket 'tooled up cultist' that can be thrown on gung-ho IBOs. The propogandist known as 'insider' is a different animal.
Here's the $1M question: has Scott Larsen helped more people by keeping them out of Amway, or has 'insider' helped more people by convincing them that they should join/stay in?
I'm sure both think that they are helping people, and that's part of why they do it. Someone with a little more savvy might understand that it's not really 'people' one of them is helping, but a corporation by propping up their customer base.
The $50 question: is 'insider' a player in all of this - seeing as he has taken it upon himself to be the spokesman of substance for the corportation's lack of one - or is he not worth the trouble of discussing and is causing no harm?
Balance that with not taking the vast majority of chatter very seriously, and you'll do just fine.
Truth...
I applaud the Quixtar Blog and all the good things that have been accomplished here. You fellows deserve a big thumbs up for all the time and devotion you used to spend shedding light on the Amway business! You kind of give Ibofightback a pass at the same time taking a slap at him as well. This seems a little wishy washy to me. It seems like you have more criticism of the other critics to include myself while paying Ibofightback a back hand compliment. That is okay, but where is the real excitement in that?
Seems like Quixtar Blog has been much more exciting in the past as you describe it with all the extra features. You basically admit that you've lost interest in things, that your other life pursuits are now more important. Understandable. You belabor what you view as "what it (the AmQuix online world) has come to?"
What I see it coming to is Quixtar Blog losing the cutting edge of critical thought. I guess I am the new kid on the block. There are other new kids on the block as well, Anthrax for example. Don't you think it good that when you guys are a little tired of the game that some other people want to step up to the plate and take a couple swings at the fences. Maybe it would be better for you to think that we are on the same team rather than pooh poohing our efforts. I realize that in retrospect I've been wrong about a few things. I grow just as you guys have grown over your time at the helm of Quixtar Blog and Forum. I view you guys as the great veterans who I look up too. It is too bad that you look down on us as relative upstarts.
I am not trying to steal Quixtar Blog's thunder and I really do not believe I deserve a medal for doing anything. The one story of interest happening in the past few days is Ibofightback's dumping of his TTAA forum data base. Instead of making comment on what might be going on there, you instead kind of pat him on the back as a fellow traveler along life's journey, make a sort of off hand criticism of me without even mentioning my name once? I trust that you are not talking about me making Nazi's out of Alticor. I have compared Amway's Public Relations Department as taking a page out of the Joseph Goebel's playbook, but that stops short of out and out calling them Nazis. Maybe you might have had "Achtung Al: Tales of a Quixtar Success" in mind?
It doesn't do any good to waste time on a deceit peddler like Insider as you have today. You might have made your article more interesting to readers if you had mentioned IboFightback's two part blog post on The Internet war that he feels is being waged against Amway. Wouldn't that have been a cutting edge story you might have posted back when you had Quixtar Blog running on all eight cylinders? Where there used to be "lightening" and "thunder" at QBlog, I really see less of that now. Seems like there is a retirement going on instead, a decline in content. No one could ever steal any of your thunder, because there hasn't been a whole lot of that to take.
You describe a situation where QBlog is now in decline. Even Ibofightback has reported correctly to his flock of doh doh birds that he sees boredom and a lack of enthusiasm amongst all the formerly high content cutting edge critic web sites like yours. You let him be right. You give this pied piper of deceit a pass and make criticism of Scott Larsen and others while QBlog has been sitting on its hands.
Truth, you act like the old dog. Do you really want to stay on the porch? Perceptive tells me you guys have been there and done that. Sounds like retirement to me. Maybe it would be nice to see the great home run hitters step up to the plate and take a few good swings at the fences again. Even the late great Willie Stargell stepped up to the plate in that last world series of his long career and knocked some home runs. You instead basically sit on your laurels and think making a few verbal jabs at the new players on the team is okay? Doesn't seem like something Willie Stargell might have done or said about other young upstart players on the Pirates 1979 team. Don't you remember the whole deal about "We are family?" Please consider me a fellow traveler on the same side of the diamond and let's all take our turn at the plate. You have already earned my respect, why risk losing it?
Has anyone seen the Coffee House Newsletter advertisement on Ibofightback's The Truth About Amway website?
Here is the link:
http://www.toptiermodel.com/
This is a very expertly crafted showing of another plan or get rich scheme that conflicts with the supposed purpose of the page. Might a commission be paid to Ibofightback for every Amway rejecting prospect that signs up?
Why would ibofightback have negative content on his page? See:
http://www.thetruthaboutamway.com/index.php/content/view/9269/90/
Might this conflict of interest foster Amway discontent that also provides him with a chance to make a buck off of?
Is he operating a business that also takes advantage to Amway distributors in a similar fashion to that of the tool Kingpins and the tool scam that they run?
Should just nominate Insider for a Nobel Prize.
Porkchopjim,
Having been an active IBO for several years, while only having been online in this "conversation" for 13 months, I can honestly say that the Net is not a fair and balanced representation of the reality of this business offline.
And I can honestly say that partaking in conversations with certain people online takes far more energy than even I want to expend. Why? Because it appears that it doesn't seem to be about the issues anymore.
It does seem to be about personally attacking and insulting those with whom one does not agree.
I checked out the qBlog forum, the latest thread, and it's just plain crappy. Negative, name-calling, distrespectful, childish, ugly.
If I viewed it as a get-together at someone's house, I'd politely excuse myself and vow never, never, never, to go back.
It's not something that attracts me, nor many many IBOs. Life is hard as it is. Who wants to subject oneself to being bashed (sarcastically or otherwise) and expending enegy to defend oneself to people one doesn't even know?
Crazy.
QIAC,
First of all it is of no consequence to me whether you have respect for me or this blog. It changes nothing in what I write or how I write. Also this article primarily referred to Larsen's article and a comment by joecool.
Your trust is misplaced then because the Nazi reference is most certainly directed at your blog. By the way the whole line about "I said it this way so I stopped short of actually making the comparison" BS. Is a page out of Insider's playbook.
All this talk about lightning and thunder, big dogs, etc. is going quite overboard. The good 'ol days of Quixtar Blog that I referred to was due to Qblog himself and his writing style. He was a good writer, good journalist, and very creative. Even if I posted twice a day I would never come close to making it what he did.
As far as Insider goes, I do anything but give him a free pass, and if you bothered to do a little research before commenting you would know that.
The point of the article that you have missed, yet other "veterans" have gotten is that since Insider has been outed as David Steadson and we learned he wasn't even an active IBO at the time all the conspiracy theories should have come to a close.
So by continuing to try and discredit what has already been discredited is playing into his hands. It sends a signal that apparently there is nothing wrong with the business now and all there is time for is to write about an individual and not even his theories that he writes about.
Finally no one is looking down on anyone. No one can possibly stop anyone from taking any "swings at the fences". Has anyone stopped your blog? Has anyone prevented you from writing what you wanted? Didn't think so.
Bottom line: I write things how I see them, I don't write for anyone's approval, if you agree with me great and if you disagree that is equally fine. I don't see myself as a part of any team except for the others who have posted at Quixtar Blog. I don't collaborate with anyone else on what they write.
Truth...
I really don't think we have any major problems. I may have gotten a little overly defensive about your references about me which you are well within your right to make. My Dad always said, "It's your railroad, you can run it any way you want." I didn't intend any disrespect toward you.
Shortly before Steadson dumped his data base on the TTAA forums he said in one of his blog posts that he did not want IBOs to point prospects to his TTAA website. He had lost confidence that the "lurkers" or "Younglings" would come away from it with a positive attitude.
He has used me as a smoke screen for dumping the data base. Does anyone believe his explanation that it was an accident? Just wondering. He did have two strings amounting to about 70 pages of negative information that I placed on his TTAA forum where I blasted the kingpin systems and the validity of tools. Page views for these strings exploded. A very embarrassing situation. Other forum members were urging Insider to garbage can them. Even now on the new forum, there is only one string that is making any head way presently, and that is a discussion on the validity of tools. They have not stopped debating the tool scam.
I never paid this fellow very much mind until we got into a short comment exchange on directselling411.com blog and I believe it is counter productive to focus criticism on him rather than on Quixtar/Amway. He thinks he is a lightning rod which diverts attention onto himself and off of Quixtar.
As I have pointed out, might he now have a profit motive for operating as he does? If anyone has seen this coffee house letter deal, it is a sophisticated presentation of another Internet pyramid scheme. I think most of the other conspiracy theories can be put to rest. Is it unreasonable to think that Steadson's phone doesn't ring once in a while with an Alticor employee on the other end with a complaint? That's about as far as I go with conspiracy theories.
QIAC,
Really I don't care why or for what reason he dumped his forum database. I don't think it was as hard to retrieve as he says but like you said it's his railroad.
I could go all day into theories about it, but at the end of the day I would have nothing more then that. If what you state really is his reason it was a stupid idea to dump it since the new forums are going to end up the same way.
Bridgett,
You're right. It's much better time spent trying to recruit people you don't even know into a business that doesn't shy away from keeping blinders on its participants. Plus, that leaves more time to respond on blogs that have no less bashing, but are of a flavor more to the liking.
While it's chivalrous of you to defend him, I'm not sure it's necessary. Unless, on his behalf, you can explain how those bullets in my first post have been accomplished, or if not, why certain segments are pretending that they have.
Porkchopjim,
Are you looking for real dialogue?
Your tone does not reflect this to be the case.
Am I misreading you?
Truth,
I submitted a comment that I don't see here, that I submitted before the one to PCJ that you posted.
Maybe it's in your spam folder?
Do I need to resubmit?
Thanks.
Bridgett,
My original point, which seems to have been ignored, is what else is there to talk about as far as Amway is concerned? Looks like we have two choices: disappointment at a lack of action other than overhyped ‘transformations’ that so far have transformed nothing, or affirmation that said business is worse than this particular critic believed when I first started looking at it. Is this a matter of incompetence or corruption or a mix? Which one do you want? Is that not substantive enough? It’s pretty succinct, so we amuse ourselves in other areas.
And it’s disingenuous to claim offense towards a certain environment, and participate somewhere else where the same thing occurs.
While you don’t ‘know’ these people, I ‘know’ them lots, and they know each other. Sometimes we get into it. If there are hard feelings towards third parties – that we’ve also ‘known’ for quite some time – you can either chalk that up to critic vileness, or ponder just why that may be.
Drew, I gotta disagree with you on this one. Scott Larsen in his article did not decry that Steadson must be on Anway's payroll. He merely stated that if Steadson put the same amount of effort into his business as he does into bleating over the internet, he'd be diamond by now. In fact Larsen's closing quote from Forbes pretty much sums up his position without ambiguity.
As for Joecool's "smoking gun" comment, I can only assume he was being tongue-in-cheek.
BTW QIAC raised a few good points too. Qblog and XTC have bowed out, and the quixtardemons domain has lapsed. Eric's podcast isn't even available anymore, as seen when you click the banner link above. You, Truth, are the sole remainder of the "old guard". There's nothing wrong with that, folks have to move on. I guess with QIAC's comment about train tracks and stuff, my suggestion to him would be to start his own blog.
Bridgett,
I did not see any other message and it was not in any other group of comments. Please go ahead and resubmit and I will be on the lookout for it and make sure it gets published.
7grandinthehole,
I suppose that is one way to look at his article if you only pay attention to that one part. Unfortunately for me I guess I pay attention to the whole thing and here is some of the quotes I saw:
Let's start with the title
"David Steadson - Official Amway Zealot?"
Then there are these quotes from the article itself.
"It appears David Steadson has no less than 14 websites (see list below) dedicated to promoting Amway's reputation, and he is not "officially employed" by Amway(?)."
"Where does he find the time to be the Internet's positive Blogger for Amway, hold possibly a job, and be an Amway distributor, if someone is not paying him to do this full time?"
"All these sites I believe are all controlled by David Steadson, who of course is "not paid to do this"."
"If Steadson is not paid by somebody then this quote from Forbes magazine rings true:"
The emphasis is mine just to show the multiple times it was referred to pay for what he does, several times in quotes in the "do you believe it" manner. I think to anyone who looks at this article in it's entirety and with an unbiased mind. It is quite clear what he was getting at. It's clearly stated in the title of the article alone.
As far as QIAC's comments go, I will say again it has nothing to do with what I wrote. I am a part of no team and I write what I write because that is the way I see it. No one can stop anyone else from writing what they want to, so I don't see any point to those comments.
Porkchopjim,
Thanks for your response. I guess we don't see eye-to-eye on many things, one being the "transformation".
You don't see any progress, while I see a lot of progress, though not as quickly as many of us would like.
I do think that the LOAs will either have to change or implode or decide to leave (ala TEAM).
It is not business as usual. Not from my vantage point. Not by a long shot.
This article, IMO, is sophomorically written, but it does touch on the very heart of the issues that are wrong with the Amway/Quixtar business.
http://www.forbes.com/forbes/2008/0811/050.html
I am not naive to think that I can/will change your mind. But thought I'd add my two cents.
Again, thanks for your response.
What is the total number of insider's blog posts?
Bridgett,
In whatever forum I have seen you in, you have remained polite and straightforward and please don’t think that it has gone unnoticed.
Perhaps I have you incorrect, but I am of the impression that you retail quite a bit, but do not recall if you are aggressively involved in a motivational organization. I would like to ask if I could: I would expect ‘business as usual’ as far as running your business and retail, so what ‘not business as usual’ changes have there been? Keep in mind that a recurring theme in AMOs is that it’s always ‘not business as usual’ and ‘things are exploding…’ and ‘these are exciting times’ – even when there wasn’t anything to get terribly excited about. Leaders have disappeared before…and I’d bet some have taken their groups with them (thus the non-compete clause).
I just find it extremely ironic that Amquix is trying to give the impression that they are trying to be transparent. I agree with several of the other readers.
There is definitely more to this Insider/David Steadson. It has nothing to do with gossip. It has to do with the fact that their is possibly a serious orchestrated effort to mislead people.
Let's face it - no average person who isn't even active in a business just wakes up one day and decides to be the shining white knight for a scandelous business to the point of being so obsessive that he post over 10,000 combined comments on various blogs.
I don't believe the corporation is paying David directly. But I do believe that if Jody Victor is behind the whole thing, they are covering for Jody.
Does Jody have a deal with the corporation that he will spearhead the internet PR campaign if the corp overlooks all his rules violations? Is there a deal that Jody gets to raid all the tool business from any group he gets kicked out and the potentially millions of dollars of extra income for Jody is compensation for his efforts?
There's definitely more to this story that needs to be investigated. Can you imagine how many true facts Scott Larsen could uncover if he has someone financing his efforts?
Monika,
You are so far off base I don't even know where to begin. First of all there are several regular people on this blog and in the forum who can easily have that many posts all over the internet in forums, blogs, etc. That proves nothing.
I can see where you can buy into Larsen's article though, the questions you ask are just as bad as his. You have absolutely nothing linking Victor to Steadson yet you speculate. Exactly the kind of nonsense I was referring to when I wrote this article.
I agree with Truth in general about this subject. The reason why I made the smoking gun comment is because David Steadson had made pro amway comments on a few blogs using his real name, apparently as an active amway IBO. He apaprently has been inactive for quite a while and apparently has not accomplished much in the business.
He suddenly goes undercover and becomes "insider", who then posts and disappears, gauging traffic. Starts a host of other blogs directing traffic to his TTAA blog. He uses alerts to be able to know whenever a new blog or post is made about Amway/Quixtar, he comments on many of these blogs. He spent much time working on Quixtar Wiki and Amway wiki. He also runs blogs and is involved in discussion about Quixtar north america which does not affect him.
So the question is - Is this the actions of a reasonable and normal Amway supporter?
I guess he may just be completely obsessed about Amway, but I can see where others draw different conclusions.
I feel that he somehow profits or is compensated in some way for his efforts, of course I admit that I have no proof, but I am simply giving my opinion on the situation.
Porkchopjim,
I have had quite a story that is too long to share in this one comment, but it’s all over the Net.
But here is some info on me:
After being shown a buy-from-yourself-and-teach-others-to-do-the-same-and-retail-if-you-have-to-cover-your-System-expenses plan, and participating in that model for several years, it’s only been much more recent that I started to retail.
I am part of a “motivational organization” and participate in it.
The fact that I retail IS “not business as usual”. And it has been because of my LOA, and my particular LOS within my LOA that I retail, know why I need to retail, know how to retail, and am successful at retailing (it’s not because of the Corp.)
I have a very unique perspective as:
*an IBO,
*active,
*participating in a System,
*high enough up on the food chain (we have a currently qualified Platinum leg) to know some inner workings,
*not very much side volume to still be “in the trenches” and beholden to no one,
*intelligent enough and curious enough to see many viewpoints (online and offline),
*have some discernment and wisdom about all the stuff I hear and read,
*being somewhat successful (both my husband and me) outside this business so we are not “desperate for Amway ‘cause we ain’t got nothin’ else going for us”,
*having gone through my own “transformation” for over a year, and still transforming.
Porkchopjim, I know this is not business-as-usual because of what I now do to make our business work is a 180-degree shift than when we first started. The business model I am in today is not the one I signed up for.
*I did not want to retail.
*I did not want to promote a business where retailing was ACTIVELY a part of it, no matter how minimal.
I was angry, ticked, hurt, confused, etc., etc., etc.
But now I “get it”. (I don’t think most IBOs “get” WHY retail is crucial. And it’s not because of any legal or rule requirement thing.)
And because I’ve been willing to “transform” (which, every current IBO does need to decide. Change or go. But sittin’ on the pot, acting like the old way of doing things is going to work is just lying to themselves), for the first time in a long time I feel successful in this business (making money, confident, excited, proud, etc.)
(As a sidenote: I am the poster child for someone who thought that retailing-was-impossible, to retailing-is-embarrassingly-easy.)
Because I’m “in the game” I’ve got a vested interest and so I am very vocal (most of the time I’m polite, but I am naturally hot-tempered so I have slipped, I admit) to my LOA and to the Corp about what I think needs to change. What’s working. What’s not working.
And because I am active, they listen.
I am totally 100% on board with all the turmoil that has occurred and is occurring. It’s necessary.
It would appear to me that from the outside, y’all (those who are not active IBOs) don’t think there’s been some major turmoil. Well, when you are living it, it’s very real.
I’m not saying everyone’s “on board”. Oh no. But I do know that the train is moving and they will be left in the dust and they ( their businesses) will die a painful death.
If you are interested in my view on Systems, I commented on June 8th at 4:46 PM over at:
http://adatudes.opportunityzone.com/2008/05/14/A-Challenge-Behind-Us-Changes-Ahead-of-Us.aspx#33596
I hope that all can be gracious with me, as I’ve been very candid and very real. If I feel attacked, I will go away. It’s not a threat, just a reality. I am spending more time online than I “should”, so maybe being mean to me would be a good thing! :)
Peace.
Truth, re-reading Larsen's article I can see where you're coming from.
I still reckon Larsen doesn't think IBOFB is a paid Amway shill -- I mean, if Amway were going to hire someone to spearhead their internet campaign, they could do a truckload better than the likes of Steadson.
(Although from the comments I've read from some other people here, all I can say is, take off the aluminum helmet.)
We could argue that Steadson does it for money indirectly, as less negativity to the Biz on the internet equates to more ignorant suckers for him to recruit. But didn't someone say he was inactive? Now that's scary... Foaming-at-the-mouth zealot scary.
Funny how we've not even heard from IBOFB as yet... Banned?
Truth is right on with this post.
Scott Larsen has not been involved with Amway for years, yet he maintains his site with the same type of vigor that Steadson does.
Frankly, who cares?
To me, the real questions today are:
Has AmQuix transformed or are they the same compensation plan, expensive products and horrible reputation that have haunted them for the last 15 years?
Hey my blog got mentioned again :p
Pity it is a spam squat for ameriplan :(
Bridgett,
There is no doubt that different groups have different philosophies on how to make the business work. It has long been a complaint of mine that there is no way of knowing, never mind comparing, what those different approaches are. Without minute specifics, it appears that your LOA/LOS has at least embraced getting money from sources other than its members. And while it initially looked like if your LOS told you to pour XS on your head and do the money dance, that might have happened, but you certainly appear more confident to pursue at least what you think is appropriate.
Still, we have this: And it has been because of my LOA, and my particular LOS within my LOA that I retail, know why I need to retail, know how to retail, and am successful at retailing (it’s not because of the Corp.) You and your group may be transforming, but short of claiming such – what has the corporation done? They knew full well that IBOs were trying to consume their way to financial success. They didn’t, and still don’t, seem to care. That’s their market. ‘Transformation’ on their end is less than breathtaking. Equal parts retailing, equal parts self-use, equal parts recruiting? Gee, thanks for the help.
If you hate Amyway & Quixtar so much, why do you devote so much time trying to ruin their reputation and name?
Has AmQuix transformed or are they the same compensation plan, expensive products and horrible reputation that have haunted them for the last 15 years?
Posted by: Ty Tribble | July 28, 2008 3:31 AM
It got worse after Steadson started posting his spin on the blogs.
If you hate Amyway & Quixtar so much, why do you devote so much time trying to ruin their reputation and name?
Oh Sam... We don't hate Amway, we just hate what they're doing.
Has AmQuix transformed or are they the same compensation plan, expensive products and horrible reputation that have haunted them for the last 15 years?"
My head tips back and I laugh uproariously...
Tribble,
Your "analysis" of the so-called MLM world is laughable at best. Stop trying to get IBOs and on-lookers involved in your personal pyramid scheme. NO ONE IS INTERESTED! Truth, you ought to ban this guy. If you take a look at his website, it nothing more than him pretty much bashing other network marketing systems and building up his own, as if he is the end-all-be-all guru behind MLM success. I thought soliciting, even indirect soliciting was banned from the forum?
Anyways, I know this is off-topic, but has anyone seen the rather large number of Amway/Quixtar commercials on USA?! I mean, they are literally hemorrhaging money (probably from money they should be paying to IBOs) into airing commercials, DURING PRIME TIME TELEVISION WHEN LAW AND ORDER SVU AND CRIMINAL INTENT ARE ON! I thought that Amway did all of its marketing through IBOs. Looks like IBOs are now a thing of the past for Amway North America.
Kratos,
I appreciate the commercials. I've had people call/email me, knowing I'm "in Amway", wanting to order the products.
I've had people call/email me saying things like "I saw your commercial!" Like I own the company. LOL.
I must admit that I am suprised at the credibility these ads are bringing to the business. I didn't think that traditional advertising still had that effect.
Regarding not needing the IBOs anymore, what do you mean?
It's one thing to bring awareness to people about the products and the business opportunity (which is what the ad campaign is accomplishing).
It's another thing, and why the IBO is crucial, follow up, to service those customers, and to train/mentor new IBOs.
Bridgett, I saw the nutrilite commercial. What other commercials were aired?
Kratos wrote - "Your "analysis" of the so-called MLM world is laughable at best. Stop trying to get IBOs and on-lookers involved in your personal pyramid scheme. NO ONE IS INTERESTED! Truth, you ought to ban this guy. If you take a look at his website, it nothing more than him pretty much bashing other network marketing systems and building up his own, as if he is the end-all-be-all guru behind MLM success."
Amen to that.
I saw the quixtar commercial last nite in it's entirety. I said Amway global and quixtar did 6.8 billion in sales.
Isn't that contary to what ibofightback was claiming?
Quixtar is really the worst company I have never knew before
You spend alot of time and money by buying their bad and very expensive products and it is almost imposible to sell it
I quick and I report this company as the worst company in USA
I exhort everybody not to joing them
Was previously said:
The point of the article that you have missed, yet other "veterans" have gotten is that since Insider has been outed .... and we learned he wasn't even an active IBO at the time all the conspiracy theories should have come to a close.
WHAT does this tell you? An Amway EMPLOYEE or AFFILIATE is not ALLOWED to be an Ibo.
Why do people continue to use Insiders real name. You KNOW he doesn't like it and it serves no purpose. Show him the respect that you speak about all the time.
what it has come to is the moderators have not posted anything new in a MONTH; and the visitors have not posted anything for TWO WEEKS.
"Why do people continue to use Insiders real name. You KNOW he doesn't like it and it serves no purpose. Show him the respect that you speak about all the time."
Willy,
I have seen Insider called David Steadson by many people on several different sites, blogs, and forums. I have yet to see him get upset at someone for doing so, so can you point out where he said he didn't like it?
Truth,
re IBOFB's name:
Ask Rocket.
Look at IBOFB's comment on August 4th...
http://www.thetruthaboutamway.com/the-internet-war-against-amway-part-ii/
Ankur - Seriously though, do you really think this is appropriate comments for this blog, posting other peoples personal details?
Comment by ibofightback — April 11, 2008 @ 2:49 pm
"C’mon, tell me, where have I been dishonest? You come on here claiming dishonesty, with nothing to back it up and, quite pathetically, using my real name, just like your just as pathetic little friend JoeCool does whenever and wherever he can, yet you both hide anonymously.
What puerile, imbecilic little cowards you are."
You can find the entire conversation here:
http://www.thetruthaboutamway.com/the-internet-war-against-amway-part-ii/#comments
Right on! Let's stop "The war on Insider." It was over when we uncovered him and found out he is a nobody. Look, you want to know if he is on the payroll for sure? Call Amway and ask for employment verfication. They can't deny you--It's the law.
Insider doesn't even share the same continent with the AMO's most of us have a beef with, and he's never said they weren't guilty of the abuses we claim. Dispute the theories he portrays as facts, not the man.
Posted by: fastshutter | July 21, 2008 9:54 PM