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July 21, 2008
Is this what is has come to?
By Truth in Miscellaneous
When I first started blogging about Amway and Quixtar there were a number of blogs and sites about this opportunity and each seemed to have it's own niche. Quixtar Blog seemed to be one that broke stories, had a variety of different weekly posts. Monday Reader Mail, Farcial Help Desk, etc, etc. xanadu had his infamous blog that broke down the tapes and the BS that was on them, Quixtar Demons went to town on WWDB group, and of course On the Road with Dave was and still is a unique blog with an active IBO who was not on either side per se, just really sensible about the whole thing.
Today while approving comments I received two comments that caught my attention. First one was from "whoz" (Scott Larsen) and the second from "joecool". Larsen's comment was about all the sites that Insider (David Steadson) apparently owns, and joecool made a comment that the article on Larsen's site was in his opinion "The Smoking Gun" that Steadson is on the Amway corporation payroll for what he does on the net.
Well no doubt I found the words "The Smoking Gun" interesting and so I headed over to Larsen's site to get the 411 (sorry, my teen told me I needed to try and talk more cool). I was thinking what could he possibly have, bank statements? wire transfers? corporate memo? communications between Steadson and Amway? Much to my dismay I found a bunch of information I already knew for quite sometime. Insider aka IBOFightback aka David Steadson owns many blogs and has a ton of videos on YouTube. The article pretty much tried to paint a picture that it is next to impossible that someone would have this much time to do what is being done without getting paid.
Well before I go any further first of all I have no idea if Insider is paid for what he does. Seems to me he is not, but I could be wrong. Second not one part of that article was anything near resembling a "smoking gun" in my opinion. A list of sites and some speculation does not a smoking gun make.
I decided to go ahead and look into all those sites that Insider is claimed to run since they were all nice and listed there for me to copy and paste in my browser. The first thing I noticed is that many of those sites are blogspot which means they are free to own and operate. From the other sites I can't imagine a burden of cost that is all that great. So now the only thing to look into was the amount of time that was being spent.
Obviously the biggest chunk was the blogspot blogs that were created and so I checked into those first. Out of all of the free blogs I found a total of 81 posts, most blogs have been up for a year with only two being 3-4 years. Even so if you divide 81 posts by 52 weeks in a year that means Insider posted 1.5 times a week. Not very hard to do. Larsen also referred to Insider as a "frequent" editor of the Wikipedia Amway listing. A quick check over there showed roughly 29 edits in a year, which translates to about .5 edits a week. Yet again, not hard to do, and hardly what I would call "frequent".
The other sites owned by Insider seem to be what takes up the bulk of his time spent on this issue. First you have this Truth about Amway site, this is a site that I check out from time to time and I can say for sure that new articles are not going up everyday on the blog, and many of the other articles are cookie cut from news headlines about Amway.
The Amway Watch site is (or was supposed to be) about Amway news only with no other kind of commentary. At least that is what I was told in a private message when I inquired about it. Again most of the articles seem to be cut from headlines with news about Amway or Quixtar. But just for Insider don't think I didn't notice the links at the bottom to many "commentary" articles as well. Something I was told was not going to be part of the site.
Finally Amway Talk and Amway Wiki are the other sites. Amway Talk is a forum and I think that is self-explanatory. Amway Wiki could use up a great deal of time, but I also know there are others who are posting and editing at that site as well. Certainly not a one man effort.
Now don't get me wrong I am no fan of Insider. I have discussions with him on his site from time to time and just recently got on him for trying to paint the conclusion that Larsen makes big coin from his site ads. I also refer to him sarcastically on this site from time to time as well. In my opinion he is the master of the Amway spin, and can usually spin his way out of anything. In the end if you are honest with yourself you have to have to give him a little respect cause he won't back down and he isn't your average everyday drive-by commenter like so many other IBOs who comment on this site.
In the end I have to ask the question "Is this what is has come to?" As far as I am concerned I believe there are still issues with this business and abuses going on in Lines of Sponsorship. Matter of fact from some of the comments and e-mails I get I know it is still going on. But from both sides (Insider included) it seems anything will do when trying to paint a conclusion about others on the web. From comparing critics to jihadists, and posting such vile things that even a Quixtar corporate blogger calls you a cyber-bully, to others wanting "some sort of medal" for their delusional self-promotion of victory over another site, comparing Amway to Nazis, and agreeing with any sort of article, even though ten minutes of research would show it has no foundation, just because you dislike the person it was written about. Frankly, it's all starting to get just a bit ridiculous.
Comments
I would like to clarify that I don't necessarily think that insider is paid by the corporation. In my opinion, I said "smoking gun" because even the most avid critics don't run multiple blogs and spends that much time commenting, posting and reading.
Some of insider's blogs do not allow comments but simply direct the reader to his main blog. Is this his strategy to drive up traffic? Is he google bombing?
Also, let's not forget his google alerts that directs him to comment on just about any new blog about amway or quixtar. He also runs his own blog on myspace.com where he goes under tha handle of "IBO" and states that he is from Trinidad and Tobago.
It would just seem unlikely that anyone with a "life" would spend that much time defending a business that he himself hasn't been able to achieve any significance in.
I hope I'm not speaking "out of school" or betraying any kind of trust with Insider(Dave Steadson) when I say that on my trip to Prague I had the opportunity to observe many conversations with The Blogger's 5 including Insider and several principals of Alticor Corporate PR...at no time did I ever witness the slightest *wink wink, nudge nudge* between Insider and the PR guys that would remotely insinuate that Insider was paid or "fed" lines or stories by Alticor corporate.
I even recall some friendly disagreements.
Certainly, not proof positive but it seems that Larsen is just like Steadson. They BOTH have time on their hands enough to be Internet activists and they are both just passionate about their cause.
I don't understand how they keep it up.
Dave
I know insider has criticized the corporation at times, but he never has anything bad to say about network 21.
Thank you!
Yup, we seem to have lost focus.
Fastshutter said it best.
In any heated internet discussion, ppl will be called Nazis, communists, racists, terrorists. Seen that. Even done that. Resistance is futile ;)
To reiterate: I don't have any interest in PR Hack theories, or WSG stuff.
Orrin was commenting other day? Now that was awesome.
Having had many years to ponder and reconcile my past in the business, I've decided to start blogging about my experiences and opinions about the Amquix opportunity.
And, while I touch upon many of the topics that have been raised before, I hope to shed some additional critical insight, especially with regards to the INA System that I was a part of.
Yes - it has come to this. We are a self-licking ice cream cone.
Because - what else is there to talk about? We certainly don't have anything to complain about anymore because:
- All the great and wonderful changes that Amway is doing to fix all the problems.
- There isn't a tool scam anymore, if there even ever was one.
- All AMOs have suddenly become nonabusive, not just 'the' good ones who never were.
- Amway's products have broken into the mainsteam instead of never leaving the pyramid.
All things that if you follow insider, you'd think were 100% right-on.
All things that if you have a minute grasp of reality, you'd know there isn't a single substantial change other than the Am/Quix/Am name shuffle.
There's a blanket 'bitter broke loser' that can be thrown on critics. There's a blanket 'tooled up cultist' that can be thrown on gung-ho IBOs. The propogandist known as 'insider' is a different animal.
Here's the $1M question: has Scott Larsen helped more people by keeping them out of Amway, or has 'insider' helped more people by convincing them that they should join/stay in?
I'm sure both think that they are helping people, and that's part of why they do it. Someone with a little more savvy might understand that it's not really 'people' one of them is helping, but a corporation by propping up their customer base.
The $50 question: is 'insider' a player in all of this - seeing as he has taken it upon himself to be the spokesman of substance for the corportation's lack of one - or is he not worth the trouble of discussing and is causing no harm?
Balance that with not taking the vast majority of chatter very seriously, and you'll do just fine.
Truth...
I applaud the Quixtar Blog and all the good things that have been accomplished here. You fellows deserve a big thumbs up for all the time and devotion you used to spend shedding light on the Amway business! You kind of give Ibofightback a pass at the same time taking a slap at him as well. This seems a little wishy washy to me. It seems like you have more criticism of the other critics to include myself while paying Ibofightback a back hand compliment. That is okay, but where is the real excitement in that?
Seems like Quixtar Blog has been much more exciting in the past as you describe it with all the extra features. You basically admit that you've lost interest in things, that your other life pursuits are now more important. Understandable. You belabor what you view as "what it (the AmQuix online world) has come to?"
What I see it coming to is Quixtar Blog losing the cutting edge of critical thought. I guess I am the new kid on the block. There are other new kids on the block as well, Anthrax for example. Don't you think it good that when you guys are a little tired of the game that some other people want to step up to the plate and take a couple swings at the fences. Maybe it would be better for you to think that we are on the same team rather than pooh poohing our efforts. I realize that in retrospect I've been wrong about a few things. I grow just as you guys have grown over your time at the helm of Quixtar Blog and Forum. I view you guys as the great veterans who I look up too. It is too bad that you look down on us as relative upstarts.
I am not trying to steal Quixtar Blog's thunder and I really do not believe I deserve a medal for doing anything. The one story of interest happening in the past few days is Ibofightback's dumping of his TTAA forum data base. Instead of making comment on what might be going on there, you instead kind of pat him on the back as a fellow traveler along life's journey, make a sort of off hand criticism of me without even mentioning my name once? I trust that you are not talking about me making Nazi's out of Alticor. I have compared Amway's Public Relations Department as taking a page out of the Joseph Goebel's playbook, but that stops short of out and out calling them Nazis. Maybe you might have had "Achtung Al: Tales of a Quixtar Success" in mind?
It doesn't do any good to waste time on a deceit peddler like Insider as you have today. You might have made your article more interesting to readers if you had mentioned IboFightback's two part blog post on The Internet war that he feels is being waged against Amway. Wouldn't that have been a cutting edge story you might have posted back when you had Quixtar Blog running on all eight cylinders? Where there used to be "lightening" and "thunder" at QBlog, I really see less of that now. Seems like there is a retirement going on instead, a decline in content. No one could ever steal any of your thunder, because there hasn't been a whole lot of that to take.
You describe a situation where QBlog is now in decline. Even Ibofightback has reported correctly to his flock of doh doh birds that he sees boredom and a lack of enthusiasm amongst all the formerly high content cutting edge critic web sites like yours. You let him be right. You give this pied piper of deceit a pass and make criticism of Scott Larsen and others while QBlog has been sitting on its hands.
Truth, you act like the old dog. Do you really want to stay on the porch? Perceptive tells me you guys have been there and done that. Sounds like retirement to me. Maybe it would be nice to see the great home run hitters step up to the plate and take a few good swings at the fences again. Even the late great Willie Stargell stepped up to the plate in that last world series of his long career and knocked some home runs. You instead basically sit on your laurels and think making a few verbal jabs at the new players on the team is okay? Doesn't seem like something Willie Stargell might have done or said about other young upstart players on the Pirates 1979 team. Don't you remember the whole deal about "We are family?" Please consider me a fellow traveler on the same side of the diamond and let's all take our turn at the plate. You have already earned my respect, why risk losing it?
Has anyone seen the Coffee House Newsletter advertisement on Ibofightback's The Truth About Amway website?
Here is the link:
http://www.toptiermodel.com/
This is a very expertly crafted showing of another plan or get rich scheme that conflicts with the supposed purpose of the page. Might a commission be paid to Ibofightback for every Amway rejecting prospect that signs up?
Why would ibofightback have negative content on his page? See:
http://www.thetruthaboutamway.com/index.php/content/view/9269/90/
Might this conflict of interest foster Amway discontent that also provides him with a chance to make a buck off of?
Is he operating a business that also takes advantage to Amway distributors in a similar fashion to that of the tool Kingpins and the tool scam that they run?
Should just nominate Insider for a Nobel Prize.
Porkchopjim,
Having been an active IBO for several years, while only having been online in this "conversation" for 13 months, I can honestly say that the Net is not a fair and balanced representation of the reality of this business offline.
And I can honestly say that partaking in conversations with certain people online takes far more energy than even I want to expend. Why? Because it appears that it doesn't seem to be about the issues anymore.
It does seem to be about personally attacking and insulting those with whom one does not agree.
I checked out the qBlog forum, the latest thread, and it's just plain crappy. Negative, name-calling, distrespectful, childish, ugly.
If I viewed it as a get-together at someone's house, I'd politely excuse myself and vow never, never, never, to go back.
It's not something that attracts me, nor many many IBOs. Life is hard as it is. Who wants to subject oneself to being bashed (sarcastically or otherwise) and expending enegy to defend oneself to people one doesn't even know?
Crazy.
QIAC,
First of all it is of no consequence to me whether you have respect for me or this blog. It changes nothing in what I write or how I write. Also this article primarily referred to Larsen's article and a comment by joecool.
Your trust is misplaced then because the Nazi reference is most certainly directed at your blog. By the way the whole line about "I said it this way so I stopped short of actually making the comparison" BS. Is a page out of Insider's playbook.
All this talk about lightning and thunder, big dogs, etc. is going quite overboard. The good 'ol days of Quixtar Blog that I referred to was due to Qblog himself and his writing style. He was a good writer, good journalist, and very creative. Even if I posted twice a day I would never come close to making it what he did.
As far as Insider goes, I do anything but give him a free pass, and if you bothered to do a little research before commenting you would know that.
The point of the article that you have missed, yet other "veterans" have gotten is that since Insider has been outed as David Steadson and we learned he wasn't even an active IBO at the time all the conspiracy theories should have come to a close.
So by continuing to try and discredit what has already been discredited is playing into his hands. It sends a signal that apparently there is nothing wrong with the business now and all there is time for is to write about an individual and not even his theories that he writes about.
Finally no one is looking down on anyone. No one can possibly stop anyone from taking any "swings at the fences". Has anyone stopped your blog? Has anyone prevented you from writing what you wanted? Didn't think so.
Bottom line: I write things how I see them, I don't write for anyone's approval, if you agree with me great and if you disagree that is equally fine. I don't see myself as a part of any team except for the others who have posted at Quixtar Blog. I don't collaborate with anyone else on what they write.
Right on! Let's stop "The war on Insider." It was over when we uncovered him and found out he is a nobody. Look, you want to know if he is on the payroll for sure? Call Amway and ask for employment verfication. They can't deny you--It's the law.
Insider doesn't even share the same continent with the AMO's most of us have a beef with, and he's never said they weren't guilty of the abuses we claim. Dispute the theories he portrays as facts, not the man.
Posted by: fastshutter | July 21, 2008 9:54 PM