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May 28, 2008
Hey Amway IBO...you haven't done anything yet!
By Truth in Amway
What is it about some IBOs that makes them think simply by being in Amway they are already more successful then any broke loser who is getting by working at their J-O-B? They know who they are, we have all seen them, read their comments, there is no denying it. They are usually the ones who get offended when asked how much profit they claimed on their taxes, as if it was matter of the utmost national security, and can't possibly understand where some slimy critic who couldn't hack it in their super successful business gets off asking such a question.
Well here is where we get off asking such a question. Chances are good those slimy critics are doing better financially in their J-O-B then you are, or for that matter ever will do in your business. Chances are good those slimy critics who are doing the right things with their money are going to be walking some beaches of the world, while the closest many IBOs will get to a beach is cleaning out the cat litter box on the weekends.
Now this might be sounding a bit harsh, and trust me I do not have any intentions of degrading or belittling anyone. It's like my old Drill Sergeant told us on the day we were to graduate from basic training.
"It's about humility soldiers, you gotta know you ain't no (stinkin) battle-hardened war hero, you are the lowest of the low and you gotta earn it here son."
Notice the parentheses as the word really used was much more colorful then the one I put in there, I will let you use your imagination. But the point being is that he was right, we all thought we were big and bad cause we got to fire some weapons, learned some hand-to-hand combat, completed some of the most physically challenging things we had ever faced, and now we thought we were a bunch of green fightin machines. When in reality we were nothing more then a bunch of kids who had a total of two months in the Army and didn't have the first clue as to real soldiering.
So to you IBOs, and you know who you are. Don't get offended next time you are asked for your financial information about your business. People just want to see if you are the battle-hardened war hero that you are acting like you are when you are flipping off at the mouth about J-O-Bs and telling others that they are going to be broke losers the rest of their life because they don't think Amway is the best thing that they have ever heard of. In a nutshell it's their way of saying "You gotta earn it here son!"
You have made a very good point, anonymous writer. I myself, am a very active IBO and I love the whole experience for starters. What I like that you said is that it can be easy for a new person to think that "by being in Amway (or Quixtar in the US and Canada) they are already more successful then any broke loser who is getting by working at their J-O-B" Where it is true that taking on "business owner" status (in any arena- not just in marketing) leaves you less inoculated to real world competition, rejection and guarantees, just signing up doesn't mean that you have faced any of that. I will say in a new IBO's defense that a lot of personal growth can happen in a short amount of time when facing those things, and often times growth of effective people skills (and consequently financial results) can lag behind. I believe that the important thing to keep in mind is that everyone can do better in the area of dealing with other people (which includes having respect for other hard-working people besides yourself). Additionally I would like to endorse to anyone reading this blog that going outside of your current comfort zone with honesty, integrity and humility is going to eventually form you into a better and stronger person as long as your foundation is stable. Hurray for JOBs! (if you never get one- you better be good at borrowing or stealing if you ever plan to become wealthy in any other way) HURRAY as well, for a business model that can be pursued to a very high degree while paying all of your bills (by working a job)!!!
Great post! You've rocked back the IBO recruits with this one drill sergeant, sir!
Thanks for the comments, but to correct one item I am not an "anonymous writer". Many who read this blog know who I am, and for those who don't it's not hard to find on this blog. It is usually the pro-Amway writers who like to stay anonymous.
It is not just the new IBOs. I know several IBOs who have lost money year after year. One friend has been in for over 13 years and has never earned a penny in profit. However, she is convinced this is the "best opportunity" in the world. I have heard her time after time tell people they can have financial freedom through Quixtar. Like it or not; the tools systems (WWDB in this case) are cults. They genuinely brainwash people into thinking they are successful business people when they consistently lose money.
Awesome post. I agree, I have encountered much of what you describe, and to boot, I was an IBO on the other end of the table.
In the end, the bottom line is what counts and many IBOs ignore that, and/or are taught to ignore that.
I will agree, thank goodness for the JOBs that distributors have, otherwise how would they pay for their products and meetings??? I think it's funny how they want to belittle that.
I also have to say - that what happens in a lot of cases is people are taught to cut out your old friends and even ditch your family if they don't support you. Then, the upline and business team are the only "friends" you think you have. You become scared of being lonely. So you'll stay in a business that isn't working because you think you will lose everything if you quit.
We were consistent rubies in the business (with several downline silver - Sapphire) and sorry to say - we weren't clearing the money they said we would. We had great width and sponsored lots of people personally, so I know what I speak of. I would have gladly shared my P/L with people and we were very transparent with people about the cost to run the busines,both in money and in time. It's why we got in trouble with our upline (we weren't supposed to tell our group those things.)
hmm, i like the post too.
no matter how its put, if you lie about what is the truth, youre still lying.
i dont believe there is anymore legitimacy in thinking you can ask someone about there tax return then there is for the ibo to lie about what is happening in order to "fool" someone into thinking something.
it really is no ones business to know what someone has reported to the governement for taxes other then that individual and thier accountant/cpa.
that would be like going into a verizon store, where all they sell is verizon. of course they are going to be confident in "having the best product," of course they are going to purchase the dummy phones, displays, collateral, clothes, name badges, phone equipment, computers, etc, to open that store. man, they even all dress the same and say the same things in that store...new and old employees.
so if i walk into that store, with my t-mobile phone, and they tell me things about verizon and why THEY think it is better and how they believe in it, then that doesnt make it wrong or wierd. that is what they are paid to do.
but how would the person who walks in look after he has been introduced to verizon and he asks something like, well it looks good, but can you show me your paycheck first, and let me know how much the manager makes here? how about the regional sales director? heck, why we are at it, bring in the CEO of your cult, because you all dress the same, wear the same colors, say the same things, ....you even all use the same verizon phones....and let me see what thier tax statement looks like and ill think about switching.
i have found, that when i didnt have the bigger bonus checks coming and people asked, they didnt build the business, and after i started getting bigger checks and they asked how much i made and showed them 5 months in checks...they still didnt build it.
they went from "cant even show me" to "hmph, interesting"
doesnt take from still being honest about it.
to build this business, you have to be willing to live in a glass house. because if you are not truthfull, it will eventually come out and then you will lose your credibility.
bummer. dont know what they told you that you would be making, nor is it important now, but there was definately something flawed in the balance of that business for it not to be profitable. i am sorry it did not work out for you.
the comp is the same for everyone, so they can play with the numbers and figure out what you would have to build with width and depth to make it profitable.
if you don't mind my asking, how much were you "clearing" at your highest point, oldibo?
Excellent post, Truth!!! This is one of my biggest issues with Amway. Respect is earned, portraying the image of money doesn't grant you it. Being a business owner is a hard road and just saying you are one without backing up your experience or your success doesn't grant you it either. Earning respect also means having it for others...even those with a JOB!!!!!
J4.1776, If the verizon owner asked me to open a "franchise" verizon store, I would have every right to ask to see his books and/or profit loss statements. I would not have the right to see his personal income, but every right to see the business portion.
That's the issue with IBOs. They want you to join the business but when asked about profits, then they make it sound as if it nobody's business.
"J4.1776, If the verizon owner asked me to open a "franchise" verizon store, I would have every right to ask to see his books and/or profit loss statements."
And if they don't want to show it with numerous excuses, it's very logical to assume their income is average: $115/mo.
Not to mention the fact that since Verizon is a publicly traded company, their books, including the P/L by law needs to be made available upon request. If you are already a stock holder, they send current detailed reports once a year and summaries quarterly. Don't want to ask them for it? Not a problem, just go online and it is available for all to see!!!!
J4, if I'm just buying something from the Verizon store, of course I wouldn't ask for their business tax return. But if I decided to look into opening up a Verizon store franchise (or any franchise), I would receive a franchising circular that would list all the franchises in the area profit and loss reported to the parent company, and other pertinent information. I would also be well within my rights to ask other franchisees to see their business tax returns to assess just how profitable their business was, and what I could expect.
It's common practice in business to show tax returns when you are considering buying a franchise, business, or just investing in a business to see tax returns. I come from a small business family, and one of the first pieces of advice the generation of business owners told me when I first asked what I should do about Quixtar was to ask to see the tax returns. It was a huge red light when I was told it was none of my business. My response was what my family told me to say. You want me in your business, therefore, your profit and losses will become my business, unless you have something to hide...and no thank you for the offer to join your business unless you change your mind.
J4.1776, You need to tweek your Verizon analogy. It's not accurate. Joecool was right on the mark.
I wrote a message before but I don't see it here - maybe it got lost in the loop.
Anyway, I'd have to go back and actually look at returns. But I know we cleared our high year on a 1099 over $50k. Plus, we did receive tool money. We were told (and pressured) that at direct we were to put all of our tool profits back into tools and it was designed to help you go emerald. We were told that we WOULD NOT be profitable until EMERALD! This was told at every direct event and hammered through all weekend.
We had 9 groups that we paid bonuses to monthly minimum. Some were 300 some were 6000 (or over at 7500). We spent 5-6 and sometimes 7 nights a week driving everywhere. We were driving 50k miles a year on average. We went to every open meeting ($8 a week plus the night owl, we went to every seminar $40 (every other month), and every major conference ($240 plus hotel and food so probably like $400-500), plus every leadership (there would be like 4 -6 a year again $400-500 easy). We easily spent $5-6k on tools a year, buying stuff to give away into the group. So all that said I think our best year we cleared $5k on our taxes. This doesn't even include what we spent on products.
Our upline used to tell people they needed X amount of a list of tools. He would check what they bought and would publically slam them for not doing what he said (this is when he was making the tool profits and we didn't know about them). When we went over direct we told people honestly the things we knew and heard, AND we got ripped a new one and they "pushed, kicked, deedified or whatever you want to call it" out of the group. Our uplines actions cost us income regardless of how much we were spending.
I will say that we were all about the Sunday morning service and helping people live better lives. We purchased the tools so they didn't have to. It was an expensive life lesson. We figured out that if we saved the money we spent on products, meetings, tapes, food, travel, and gas - we could have paid for our house in cash and still had money in the bank. I once lost my job and wanted to stay home with my kids, my upline told me I needed to go back to work to pay for the business and we couldn't do that on my husbands salary. I made about 45k and he made over 65k in our jobs. Looking back I think we were brainwashed by all the same talk on the tapes we had to listen to daily and not listen to tv, radio, any person who wasn't in the business. Too bad someone didn't get through to us earlier.
Quixtar: Amway in disguise!! Part of my family has been sucked into this cult of getting paid to live on their products!!!. Supposedly my brother is going to be a millionaire soon, we've never seen that evidence. Now, my stepmother, who previously balked at "The Business" has been brainwashed . We bought some of that super water, I thought there was oxygen in water already???, just to get her to stop talking about it. I feel sorry for my dad and I worry that he too will start having all of his toilet paper and food ordered and delived from quixtar. Another question I have is why do they always refer to THE Business"??? Kind of FREAKY!!!
Posted by: mamaj | May 31, 2008 3:29 PM
Let me first say I did have a friend who made a decent side income selling Amway cleaning products by word of mouth. Never rich from it, but profitable enough for him to pad his savings a bit for a season of time. I don't think there's anything inheritantly evil with Quixtar.
My father-in-law pretended success as an IBO for TEN YEARS. When he started, he owed his home free and clear and had no debt. Today, he has two mortgages and owes more on the house than it's worth. He's maxed out a credit card, and is working on maxing another. He has no cash savings whatsoever, no retirement funds. His social security check and his wife's paycheck went toward building the business until his upline had a falling out with Quixtar and now, after a blessed-but-brief hiatus, he's into another MLM. The whole thing is starting again. Traveling for seminars. Buying tons of motivational materials. Eating out and prospecting the servers. Telling anyone who will listen how he's going to make a bunch of money soon by signing up people underneath him (instead of selling the actual product).
To the casual observer, he looks like he's doing great. And he signs people up! Then those folks are around enough to start to seeing what's really going on. They disappear.
To the family who sees that he can't afford to see a dentist and will probably lose his home AND declare bankruptcy in the next few months, we know the truth. We've tried holding up a mirror for years with no success. Now we're faced with his failing health, his and his wife's stubborn refusal to stop the financial bleeding, and the knowledge that we're probably going to have to make some hard decisions when they lose everything.
The really sad part is my father in law thinks he hasn't succeeded simply because he hasn't worked the business hard enough. I've watched him. If ANYONE worked this hard enough, it was him.
And THAT is why anyone trying to sign up another person in a business that's supposedly been so good for them should be willing and able to show their tax records. Because otherwise, it's just the word and appearance of the IBO. It's unfortunately meaningless--let's call it human nature. It would save a lot of people a ton of heartache and debt if they had all the facts up front.
I thank you for your candid answer. I am no one to judge your actions or upline's actions. We all do (or should do) the best we can with the information we have.
I am sorry you had a bad experience and it didn't turn out the way you had planned for, worked hard for & dreamed for.
I pray you are living a more fulfilling life now & your dreams are coming true!!!
I don't see how can people subscribe to something like this, just a few minutes reading all this comments and I got sick of all the negativeissm as if people would LOVE to work or as if they didn't have something else to do. To all of you who had bad experiences with Quixtar, just to let you know, this is not the only business that there is, what I'm trying to say is that if you didn't do good here you probably do better somewhere esle Just do something better, than taliking crab all the time. But really It seems to me that no matter what other business you do you probably will not make it! Not with that type of mentality. Anyway I guess it doesn't matter what I got to say aside to the fact that I'm no body for you guys. God bless you all!
P.S. Just remember; Do Something! Don't just sit there!
Nep - appreciate your response, but you have no idea what else we did with our life. I love to work, whether it be around my home, at my church, or creating income. I enjoy the opportunity to do something with my life other that nothing. I take 10 minutes here and there to state my experiences every couple of days. That doesn't seem like a lot of time to me. I spend more time on email a week.
We actually had 2 other businesses in addition to our jobs. After expenses the first year we cleared over 40k from just ONE of those businesses. I personally don't have a negative mentality, don't let what you have heard from people in the business fool you about people who have quit pursuing that ONE opportunity. We have a realistic positive outlook for our businesses. We assess it using logic and not just hope. Even in the Amway business we had a positive outlook. So I say, we are telling our experiences, who are you to judge whether or not people will or won't be successful. I made no claims as to what others could accomplish, merely what happened to us, in HONESTY. We loved the Amway business. But we realized looking back that it wasn't the opportunity we signed up for. In fact, we have another business that we are starting up in the next few months. Every other business we have done has been extremely profitable for our family.
I have to ask, what are you doing? What is your success?
And what is your gauge of success? My gauge is 1 - a God honoring endeavor, 2 - personal growth and fullment, 3 - financial prosperity (making enough that I am above the poverty level after expenses and taxes for my family size, if it is to be my primary source of income - or see #6), 4- not having to take advantage of others for my success, 5 - having proper time for my family to invest in them, 6 - time invested is outweighed by monetary compensation, and 7 - that I am allowed to pursue free enterprise by doing what I know is right for my family and not what someone else thinks is right for my family (I am not a keeping the Jones's happy or trying to keep up with them).
I hope you find what YOU are looking for and not what someone else is telling you you are looking for. Pursue something wisely with all you have.
Yet another preprogrammed response from an IBO...
Nep, why on Earth would you assume that anyone here who is critical of Quixtar isn't doing anything else, isn;t working at a job they love (it does happen no matter what your upline says) and are just sitting here?
Happiness is not being a millionaire for everyone. Some people are happy with what they have, some cherish their family more than money and some cherish life overall and choose to spend it doing activities with friends and family.
Quixtar itself is a pretty simple concept...You sign up for $60/year, get paid to shop with online stores, name brands and some products specific to Quixtar. You also get paid when friends (or friends of friends) in your referral base shop online too - basically no risk and no quotas. If you refer people you make money, if you don’t refer people you don’t make money. It made business sense to me.
The negative slant toward the industry is almost always directed towards the business support systems, not Quixtar itself. We were tied into one of the bigger business support systems, dropping $300-$400/mo into business training tools for several years. I'm not saying it was all bad, I personally grew through some of the training and I met a lot of great people through the years. But at the end of the day it was a lot of money going out the door and I personally didn't feel I was getting a return on the investment….the training seemed more focused on keeping you in the system rather than helping you make Quixtar work.
In 2006 we hit a level called Q-12 Platinum (without using the business support system). We personally registered 20+ people. Of those, some quit and the rest referred other people who referred other people, etc. We had around a hundred IBOs in our organization. We even photocopied most of our checks that year just to prove that Quixtar really worked. We learned two things….1.Quixtar was for real and 2. the biggest factor that kept people from getting started was the controversy surrounding Quixtar….the business support systems.
We were thinking the same thing that most of the Quixtar IBOs under 30 were thinking ….. in the world of the web, where companies like Hotmail and MySpace grow virally for free, why were people in Quixtar paying hundreds of dollars a month to learn how to grow a membership base the old fashioned way (the painful way).
Beginning in July of 2006 we redirected all of our energies into building a program that would allow anyone to grow a Quixtar income without the business support costs. Nearly two years later (this month), we officially launched at www.i-commercepartners.com (and www.icpuniversity.com) . I-Commerce Partners (ICP) is the first organization in the world to build a completely free web-based business support system for owners affiliated with the Quixtar Business Model. If you can shop online and type in email addresses for those you want to invite, our system will do the rest…for FREE. Stop by and check us out….and don’t hesitate to use the “contact us” link at the bottom of the page to learn more.
It is just like everyone says. This WWDB business has cost us over $35,000 during the past 8 plus years. We have nothing to show for it. They do brainwash you and you start thinking different about many things. They do make you think the only reason you have not made a million by now is because you have not worked hard enough. I would be hnappy if my husband just cleared enough to pay for the motivational materials, conferences, mtgs.,$50.00 per month for having a web site nobody ever even looks at, and all the other crap he spends money on with NOTHING coming back. I call it going fishing, yes he goes fishing at Home Depot, Barnes and Noble and everywhere he goes. I just pray that someday he will be released from the bonds they have on him and we can return to normal life.
Wow!! I actually went to a meeting or seminar whatever you call that. AS I observed the "speaker" I realized that this is too good to be true. In this world your born ALONE and you die ALONE, so what makes you think people are here to help you become rich and live the soo called "american" dream when our own government is corrupted and the whole wide world. IN conclusions, do what you love and you get paid for it. BE SMART, dont be GULLIBLE. anyone feel free to email me at: email@example.com I am an artist from miami. thank you.
That is really great that you are a Q-12 Platinum (I'm assuming you are still qualifying).
One of the defenses that the Systems use to justify their existence is that one can go Platinum without a System, could even go Emerald. But to go Diamond AND HOLD IT TOGETHER, then a System is needed.
Do you have any thoughts about that?
Does anyone have any stats on those who are not part of a System? Like how many currently qualified Diamonds and above are there who are not part of a System in the U.S.? And what their income is?
Those are the kinds of stats that I think are needed to blow this BSM debate out of the water.
Have you and/or your husband attempted to retail products--at retail price? Even just a few hundred PV to make a real profit of a few hundred bucks (rather than the "savings" on your personal use)?
It's kind of hard to offer a business opportunity, with confidence, and therefore any success, if you yourself don't have a successful PROFITABLE First Circle.
I'm not criticizing you. I'm just pointing out that the "buy from yourself and teach others to do the same and you'll become a millionaire" approach doesn't work.
With the new ad campaign, the products and the product lines are being exposed to the general public.
And because people know I'm a Quixtar/Amway Global IBO, and I haven't ticked anyone off (lately-LOL), and I am more than happy to sell them stuff without them required to see The Plan first (LOL),retailing has never been easier.
So maybe you could retail a bit, and he'll find more effective ways to share the biz opp than "going fishing". Plus his confidence will go up b/c you are actually making some money, and he'll be more attractive to potential IBOs.
Just a thought. Good luck!
I find this debate very interesting. Most is about the money and getting rich, what income is recorded on tax returns, finanacial statements, cults, brainwashing, pretending to be a leader when if you really think about it you are a follower until you become so high on the food chain you no longer follow. The one thing I have not seen here is comments about the products. I have been an IBO for many years. I do not follow, I report a modest income 15k as a sole propietor along with working a job that I earn 70K a year at. I just sell the products or should I say once some are used they sell themselves. I have had the same customers for years, and by word of mouth, (no tapes, no meetings, no hotel rooms, no lectures etc to spend money on), just pure profit. And now with the Quixtar internet site and the ease of ordering from home I expect to keep making this modest figure and maybe just maybe a litte more. Just wanted to throw another point of view into this discussion. I love being one of those J O B people and I love being my own form of IBO.
Once again - you do not get 'paid' to shop from your own store. You get a rebate - which is money you overpaid in the first place. Everyone can buy non-Amway products cheaper than you can through your own store, thereby getting 'paid' more than you do without being a 'business owner.'
So, you must get Amway products cheaper than everyone else? Doubt that, too. Some IBO who needs PV will sell to you way below his cost just so he doesn't have to buy the full amount himself to make his 'goal.'
Now, Nigel - you'll never know the number of qualified diamonds who aren't on a system. They don't advertise. You'll never even find out the total number of qualified diamonds. Amway won't say. They won't even say how many IBOs they have.
We worked hard to reach that level back in 2006. At the time we were in the process of pulling away from the training organization we had been affiliated with for a handful of years, but didn't have a new one in place to grow into. It was at that time (our last few months of Q-12 Qualification) that we began building ICP. I think it took us getting to the Q-12/Achievers level that sold us on Quixtar ... that it was a rock solid company to build a future around. It was also the level that provided a clear picture of the training organization we were a part of. There were some hard decisions at that time, but we knew our future in the Quixtar business depended on redirecting our efforts into building a free, modern day business support system that we (and our future team) could be proud of.
I personally believe that some kind of system is necessary. Most new folks don't have the stay power to learn the industry. A system is needed to empower the newest person with a way to effectively grow their membership base. We help our IBOs grow a Quixtar user base the same way other online companies do...click an invite button and type in a friend's email address, then let technology do the hard part for you.
My belief is that organizations wouldn't need to be "held together" if the IBOs in the organization were profitable. Why would anyone walk away from a program that's adding a positive cash flow to their lives? In most organizations IBOs struggle to get profitable because of business support costs, not budgeting their own personal purchases and not having an effective way to register other IBOs and Customers.
Congratulations on being able to do that. In our group once we disagreed with some of the things upline did - we were blackballed, trashed, talked about negatively, etc. etc. It didn't take long to destroy our credibility. I too think if people made money and were taught properly how to retail, etc AND the upline wasn't concerned about people paying for a function ticket and a trunk full of tools more people wouldn't become disenchanted. I'm going to have to check out your site.
I don't think you're alone. I believe there's thousands of "old ibos" out there. They see the simplicity of the Quixtar business model, but then get tangled in the web of the business support systems. These systems chain IBOs to ongoing monthly costs, but deliver very little in the way of results (verified over the past several years).
Imagine how organizations would grow if the very first dollar of every monthly Quixtar bonus went straight to profit rather than BSM expenses. It's a gimme, a no-brainer, a "you can't lose" situation. I think "old ibos" will begin re-engaging into the Quixtar business as they become aware of what ICP has to offer. A program that grows like other online companies - virtual and free.
Sure some training and support materials may be helpful for IBOs, but many if not most AQMOs push the systems to excess and leads to IBOs draining their resources which nearly always exceeds their income from the business.
I actually can look back and think: how was I so stupid. There were times when I actually said out loud, this is wrong and it makes no sense. We were often told we HAD TO tithe to a certain charity from a bonus we received AND IT WAS CHECKED UP ON! WE HAD TO give it at the leadership. Blackballed if you didn't VERY publically. Platinums to Emeralds were told to put all the money back into the system. I do think you get so ingrained in the system, you lose sight of reality. It's why it's so dangerous. I hear of this accredidation and hope it'll change things. But, they only have to send in a sample of tapes they would put out. They don't have to have all the talks they give sent or monitored. I think it's a bandaid for the corporation to pretend they are doing something.
I just hope that people wake up from their lack of functioning brain cells. We were only really profitable when we didn't buy the tools and go driving to functions. And now with gas prices the way they are, it's just crazy.
Hey Man...(ROB)...... what r u doing here by discussing abt Quixtar and Amway....??? First check whether you qualify to say something abt them or not.... check what u know.... and the info that u have is right or not.... how many businesses u know run for 50 yrs????? name some of the corporations in the world who r in the top 50 companies for last 50 yrs..... If u dont have dat much info... pls pls pls... double chk on ur information. clear ur data and then write something here..........
I have several friends who have been doing this junk for years and trying to get me to join and it has literally strained and insome cases ruined relationships. I have seen them try and fail at all the flavors - the ones that do travel, long-distance, cable tv, satellite tv, cellphones, toilet paper, cosmetics - ever notice all these scams are based in Michigan? And run/started by the same thieves? Look, if you really want to be an entrepreneur, put together a business idea and plan, get an SBA loan, and get on your way. Going to all these brainwashing events and losing precious time will not get you success - the guys at platinum or emerald or gold or whatever jewelry level they are, are there because all the other lemings in the organization buy their books, tapes, seminars, "motivational" events, etc etc.
Several years ago I went to one of these things just out of curiousity - I got kicked out because I was telling a few folks sitting next to me that the numbers were BS and didn't add up. I saw retired postal workers, elderly people, naive kids...all ready to fork over $500 to join, and another $500 for books and tapes etc etc. And I turned to a very good friend of mine (at the time) and told them, "look at how all these poor people are being tricked, with the presenters using God to push forward their lies, and truly faithful people buying into every word. Just disgusting. Stories of how one quit as a partner in law firm making 300K/year to go do amway. Another one, a surgeon (supposedly) quit his 600K a year job for that. LOL what a crock. After leaving, I actually took the time to dig up on these liars and guess what - never been a lawyer, never been a doctor - just a really good liar.
Bottom line, if you can get a binch of dummies to buy books and tapes and smeinars from you...and you can convince them that they need to keep reading and buying more books from you...you win! You WILL be rich.
Otherwise, you are better off working on your "regular" career and thinking of a real business that you might want to start (restaurant, clothing store, etc etc etc), get some serious partners if you need them and develop that until you can quit your "regular" job and focus on a "real" business. Trust me, you put together a good plan for a solid business and not a scam, you WILL get financial backing and support.
Why is it Quixtar/Amway Global did over 7 billion world wide last year if all IBO's make money just from tools? Don't you think Circuit City or Barnes and Noble would have figured out that Quixtar was a scam by now, especially when Quixtar is there #1 affiliate partner online. Figure it out buddy, you are a critic, not a success.
"Why is it Quixtar/Amway Global did over 7 billion world wide last year if all IBO's make money just from tools? Don't you think Circuit City or Barnes and Noble would have figured out that Quixtar was a scam by now, especially when Quixtar is there #1 affiliate partner online. Figure it out buddy, you are a critic, not a success."
Joe says: Who said IBOs only make money from tools? "Some" IBOs make a lot of money from tools at the expense of their downline.
Barnes and Noble and Circuit City don't care about quixtar's reputation,
as long as it increases their bottom line. Funny though, your "partnership" is a one way street. These partner stores don't sell quixtar stuff. Why is that?
Actually...all current IBO's may have their own personal websites for free. Quxitar gives 4 personal websites per IBO number that you can use as retail outlets. Customers can now shop directly from these sites and the IBO gets the retail profit and PV/BV.
However, I too think that some type of system is needed, or else there would be even more failures in this business.
Employees do not usually have the mentality to be a business owner, and be successful immediately. They need to change the way they think, and without a system, I doubt that would happen.
It amazes me when people trash Quixtar because some IBO's are not successful. Do they realize that around 70% of all businesses fail in the first 3 years? Does that make traditional business a bad thing too? I have many friends that have lost way more than 100k in traditional business, so to lose a few thousand if your are unsuccessful at Quixtar is not too bad, in my opinion.
Bottom line....if you actually do what they recommened, the results will come. If you do not, then you will not be successful. Not many are willing to get 15-20 contacts/week, and show 3-5 business plans/wk. If you do, it's almost impossible not to make money.
Someone here mentioned retail...and that is the key. If you focus on just a few items, like say XS and Nutrilite, and retail $200-300/mo, you would not have to buy any products for your own personal use.
Also, most of the expenses are tax deductible, so even though you may be spending more, the money you save in taxes help offset those expense. I saved nearly $2000 in taxes my first year. That nearly covered my expenses for my functions and business material.
Anyhow....if you are happy working to age 65-70, do nothing. For the others, you have to do something different...if not a business like Quixtar, then real estate or traditional business, and those are pretty risky in today's economy.
Why would IBO's want Barne's and Noble and Circuit City sell our products? If they did IBO's would not make any money!! That would eliminate the entire concept that Amway/Quixtar built. They have built a model that allows anyone with a few hundred bucks to start their own business, and if they are willing to do the work, they can be profitable.
If you start marketing those private label products through major retail chains, you lose the ability to offer any profits to the IBO's. Instead, you give those profits to the major retail chains.
let me ask you quitters a question? if you go to a soda machine and try to buy one that costs $1 and you put 50 cents in the machine. Will it give you half soda? i make profit in quixtar since the day i got in and im still making profits. If you can't do something and try to program someone else's mind with the negative. Amway and Quixtar are the best and will be forever. If you don't have a dream you will end up working for someone who has a dream. If you like getting up every morning go make someone else rich more power to you. All of you with the negative mind, just keep it for yourself. all ya'll do is sitting on the couch and drink beers. You don't even have time to play with your kids. If you don't have time for your wife trust me your neighbor will.
Quitters never Win, winners never Lose. But those Who never Quit and Win are just Idiots.
"let me ask you quitters a question? if you go to a soda machine and try to buy one that costs $1 and you put 50 cents in the machine. Will it give you half soda?"
I don't know I have never tried it. Is this supposed to be some clever comparison that you were trying to make? Tell you what go listen to the tape again where you got this from and then try posting it again.
"i make profit in quixtar since the day i got in and im still making profits."
Really, my kid had a lemonade stand and made about $25 profit on a weekend. But hey profit is profit right?
"If you can't do something and try to program someone else's mind with the negative."
I only have one word for this....WHAT?
"Amway and Quixtar are the best and will be forever."
...and my Dad is better then your Dad.
"If you don't have a dream you will end up working for someone who has a dream. If you like getting up every morning go make someone else rich more power to you. All of you with the negative mind, just keep it for yourself."
Yet another IBO who doesn't understand that without employees those dreams would just stay dreams. A simple business concept not understood by this business person.
"All of you with the negative mind, just keep it for yourself. all ya'll do is sitting on the couch and drink beers. You don't even have time to play with your kids. If you don't have time for your wife trust me your neighbor will."
Nice, let me just say that you are the very type of person who has given Amway the reputation that it has, and what's worse is I have no doubt you were taught this garbage by your upline.
"Quitters never Win, winners never Lose. But those Who never Quit and Win are just Idiots."
You are right on here, it is obvious you won't quit, but the question is have you won?
"Bottom line....if you actually do what they recommened, the results will come. If you do not, then you will not be successful. Not many are willing to get 15-20 contacts/week, and show 3-5 business plans/wk. If you do, it's almost impossible not to make money."
You realize that in order for me to shatter your bottom line I need but one story of those who did what you describe and did not make it? Your problem is I have WAYYYYY more then just one story.
"Also, most of the expenses are tax deductible, so even though you may be spending more, the money you save in taxes help offset those expense. I saved nearly $2000 in taxes my first year. That nearly covered my expenses for my functions and business material."
Anyone who gets excited about a business or worse tries to promote a business by talking about tax deductions doesn't understand the first thing about business. Also if you are getting more back on your taxes my friend you have just shown that you are not making a profit.
Jean Jospeh wrote: let me ask you quitters a question? if you go to a soda machine and try to buy one that costs $1 and you put 50 cents in the machine. Will it give you half soda?
Joe says: But a better comparison is IBOs putting in dollar after dollar and getting no soda while the soda machine owner sits on the side and keeps encouraging the IBO to keep feeding dollars to the machine.
If you got $2,000 back on your taxes because of your business, you had some major losses. Remember, your profit is money made minus the money you spent as business expenses. The more profit you have, the more tax you pay. The less profit you have, the less taxes you pay. If you spend more than you made, you will most likely get money back on taxes.
Sounds like a scam, doesn't it? Well, remember, in the USA, you have about 3 years of business losses you can take before red flags go off in the IRS. Businesses are in existance to profit, not to be tax shelters. If you have 3 years of non-profitable business activities, you better have a profitable 4th year, or at least show great strides showing profitability. Otherwise, the if the IRS audits you, it could really cost you big bucks, especially if the IRS claims your business to be a "hobby."
Another thing. There are lies, damn lies, and statistics. 70% of all businesses fail, but that includes businesses like AmQuix! The Small Business Association has a statistic that 55% of all employee based business (i.e. not just one person or couple home business) are in business with the same owner after 6 years! In addition, another percentage of those businesses are still in business under a different owner. Sure it's still a risk opening a business, but it looks like your odds are better opening a traditional business.
Last but not least, platitudes never made anyone a dime. Neither do stupid analogies that don't mean anything. Anyway you slice it, the average IBO still makes around $115/month, and even if half do nothing, and the real working IBO makes double, it's not hard to make $230 in a month. It equates to 23 hours of work at $10/hour, or 6 hours a week. Work two four-hour shifts a week at Target and you will make more than $230/month, plus get the 10% employee discount!
I know several distributors who got audited because it was found that they were doing the business as a hobby. It's very much a mentality that you need to spend a lot so that you don't show profit because you don't want to pay taxes. People were indirectly encouraged to claim mileage even if they didn't drive and to use full room charges even if they shared a room and to claim the irs allowed meal expenses for the day even if their receipts were cheaper. My sponsor wrote off every present she bought for family members birthdays and holidays (I don't know how she did that). But you are legally required to show profit 2 out of every 5 years. A lot of people use it as a tax shelter vs a business opportunity to make money. NOT ALL do this but some do.
current ibo said: Why would IBO's want Barne's and Noble and Circuit City sell our products? If they did IBO's would not make any money!!
Joe says: Well, B&N abd Circuit city don't sell your products now and IBOs still don't make any money.
Why are they called "partners"? It's not a partnership in the true sense.