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March 27, 2008
Amway and their Perfect Water
By Truth in Amway
Around the web I have been seeing more and more articles about the Perfect Water product from Amway. Of course it is open to some skepticism because of the claims that are being made, which are that you can have better balance, strength and flexibility after even just one ounce and this can occur within seconds. Apparently there are demonstrations of this being done by IBOs and many of those videos can be found on the web.
A search for Amway and Perfect Water on YouTube will show several videos from open meetings of these "demonstrations". I have watched several videos and I have a hard time believing some of the claims that they are making can happen with just one ounce of water, and occur in an instant on top of that. So I have included a couple of videos in this post, one of them is a demonstration and the other is a video uploaded by Scott Larsen showing how he believes the IBOs are rigging the tests. I will let you make up your own mind about the water.
UPDATE:
Over at the opportunity zone there is a post about making false claims about products, and references perfect water directly. The article is written by Gary VanderVen and he states in the article:
IBOs must only use claims and demonstrations which have been approved by Quixtar to promote this product. This list of approved claims is available at www.drinkperfectwater.com or in the "What's New" section at www.quixtar.com.
So with that I paid a visit to the drinkperfectwater.com site to see what kind of claims they make about the water, since they would be the approved claims for IBOs to use, here is what I found in the FAQ section:
What are the benefits of drinking Perfect Empowered Drinking Water? The water has been developed as a premium drinking water and is intended only for that use. No specific benefit claims are made nor represented. To see what others are saying, see the Testimonials tab on drinkperfectwater.com and share with us your own testimonials as to the ways you feel Perfect Empowered Drinking Water benefits you! (emphasis mine)
So since the site FAQ says they make no specific benefit claims or do the represent any are the demonstrations by IBOs in the videos seen on YouTube a violation? An argument could be made either way and I won't comment on that question myself but again I will leave it up to you to make up your own mind.
Comments
Oh yeah Truth, we had HOURS of private, confidential TRAINING on how to do the Tip Test. Shhhhhhh...don't tell anybody!!! So far, we've been able to get away with "tip testing" hundreds of unsuspecting victims....
Heh heh heh heh heh heh (evil laugh).
C'MON! GIVE ME A BREAK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Are you KIDDING ME?!?!?!?
You guys are simply unbelievable. I never would have believed that such cynical, nasty, negative people existed until I happened upon this site.
IT'S NEVER GOOD ENOUGH!
Where do the IBOs get their huckster outfits and pointing wand to tap the bottle? There is probably a run on them somewhere. The age old art of huckstering is evidently alive and well.
I notice that there is a fresh post on Ada-Tudes warning errant IBOs of possible suspension should they get caught promoting Perfect Water using unsubstantiated claims.
I doubt that this water will be a retail sales success, but is another recruitment ploy to attract more marks into the Biz. Time will tell.
Tell me exactly what is cynical, negative, and nasty about pointing out some new controversy that is taking place and posting videos for others to make up their own minds?
I guess I don't do it like the IBO leaders and just tell others what they should believe and expect them to believe it. I actually give them credit for being able to make up their own minds.
Truth and Quixtarisnotacult,
Have you guys tried out the water and or test for yourselves?? I have not for myself but looking forward to it. You guys have yet said what you think about the so call "Perfect" water. I mean how can you comment on something and have not tried it yet?
It makes me sad to think the Corp is willing to pass along the kind of anecdotal stories that get blown out of proportion and give a LOT of MLMs a black eye.....
Amway can NOT afford to look sleazy right now - NOT if they're truly trying to clean up their image???
Deb
IBO?
Let me buy that Espring from you for $150.00. Is it over or under the counter Espring? LOL!!
Perfectwater website under the FAQS section says:
Please note that Perfect Empowered Drinking Water has not been designed, nor tested, for treating, diagnosing, mitigating, curing, or preventing any disease or medical condition, nor for specific performance enhancement in any category, and no claims are made. Nor are any such claims authorized regarding the use of the water for any purpose other than as a drinking water.
Truth, Like I said in my previous post. Lets try it ourselves and see. I'm doing my research on this new product for myself and not really caring what other IBO's are doing with demo's. I'm waiting on my shipment of the water and compare it with other water I drink. I probably would mix my simply nutrilite twist tube with it anyway. Thanks fella for what you do.
~Eric
U.S. Navy
Eric,
No I have not tried it, but wouldn't mind trying it. I don't see what that has to do with what I wrote however. My post has to do with claims that are being made by IBOs which according to the post at the opportunity zone and what is found by both you and I at the perfect water site are claims that should not be made.
This water isn't even made by Alticor or any of its subsidiaries....which most likely means it will be on the market under another name. I wonder if that is the case, will people being posting the same kind of poppycock videos about it on you tube? What in the world makes IBO's so defensive and adamant about a product that they themselves know little about?
Thanks Truth! Now over at quixtar.com...they are looking into the demo claims that IBO's are claiming about the water. Here is what Quixtar posted on their website.
Selling Perfect Water
Quixtar statement about product claims.
As you are aware, in April Quixtar will launch Perfect Empowered Drinking Water™, a refreshing premium drinking water infused with MBO™, which is produced using a proprietary process that stabilizes oxygen in water. The product is not manufactured by Access Business Group and is being sourced from an outside vendor.
IBOs must take care not to exaggerate the product's effectiveness or imply that it can be used for medicinal purposes. Only claims and demonstrations which have been approved may be used to promote this product.
We are in the process of reviewing and substantiating demonstrable claims. We hope to complete these tests as soon as possible and will add additional claims and demonstrations as they are substantiated. Upon the conclusion of the review, we will provide a list of substantiated and approved claims that IBOs can use to market this product. Quixtar will provide you with an update on the status of all tests and claims prior to shipping product, which is scheduled for mid-April. Until then, we appreciate the cooperation of IBOs in using only published and approved claims.
The Rules of Conduct prohibit an IBO from making any exaggerated product claims or any claims not supported in authorized product literature. If an IBO is found to be in violation of this rule, Quixtar will require the IBO to correct the misinformation and may apply sanctions up to an immediate six-month suspension. Please keep in mind that the Corporation also has a Zero Tolerance Policy against any unauthorized websites or unauthorized advertising. If you would like to promote Perfect Water on the internet or in any other medium, please submit the request to Rules Administration for authorization at qbcr.department@quixtar.com or by calling 616-787-6712.
Approved claims include the following:
1. Perfect Empowered Drinking Water is a great-tasting, refreshing, and thirst-quenching premium drinking water.
2. A proprietary 15-step manufacturing process results in a purified, remineralized, ionized, microstructured, and stabilized oxygen drinking water.
3. Perfect Empowered Drinking Water is infused with MBO, which is produced using a proprietary process that stabilizes oxygen in water.
4. The product is purified using carbon and UV technology similar to what is used to create eSpring® purified water.
5. Perfect Empowered Drinking Water contains essential trace minerals, including potassium, calcium, and magnesium.
6. The "Perfect Empowered Drinking Water" brand, manufactured using the proprietary MBO process, is exclusive to Quixtar.
A complete list of usable claims is available at www.drinkperfectwater.com. The claims will be updated as Quixtar and the manufacturer complete the review.
If you have any questions about this email, please contact Business Conduct and Rules or your Quixtar Sales Advisor.
So Deb...don't jump just yet!
I have seen alot of changes with this company and their IBO's including myself since I've been back from overseas. However, I did review those videos on you tube and I think they are stupid.
I, for one, have tried water. I drink it, bathe in it (shower, actually), swim in it, keep fish in it, put it on my lawn and houseplants, give it to the animals...the uses are endless!
Anyone looking for, or expecting, some sort of miracle result from drinking water from an expensive bottle? Looks like it.
It's WATER. What do you expect to 'see'?
what is your guys promblem i just came back from a tranning course and they had bottles of the perfict water...and did the test and i was one of thoses guys on stage for the first time and never had talked to the guy doing it..the water really did do what it say's it can do.....give it time.....iam sold on this stuff tpdate i have 45 case on order...u do the math....
Eric said: You guys have yet said what you think about the so call "Perfect" water. I mean how can you comment on something and have not tried it yet?
Joe says: I havne't jumped off a ten story building before but I can say with some certainty that it's not good for your health.
I'd love to know what kinds of outrageous claims are being made. Care to expound?
We have done many "tip tests". We did not go through any special training. We pulled the "how to" sheet right from the perfect water website. We followed it. It's pretty simple. Remember, in this business, ANYBODY should be able to sell our exclusive products. This opportuity is, after all, for the "average joe" who doesn't win a lottery or become a pro ball player or become a ceo of a company or invent the next best thing to sliced bread. One of the beauties of this business is that it is offered to the average person.
Anyway, we personally, with our very own eyes, have seen and heard (with our very own ears) some pretty cool results from drinking this water.
We're not claiming it performs miracles or cures anything. We simply (as with ALL of our exclusive products) EDUCATE and INFORM our prospects, customers and IBO team members about the product. We demo them. Many times against the next largest selling "competitive" (lol) product. 99% of the time, it's no comparison. In our experiences, we win every time.
This perfect water is just that. It's water. It's been filtered, ionized, mineralized, alkalized, more than any other "leading" brand. That's all. And it's priced extremely competitively. In fact, for what it offers, it's under priced! That's not an outrageous claim...that's the REAL truth!
I don't see what the big deal is guys. After coming to this site on and off for awhile I've come to the conclusion that you guys will find something wrong with anyting Amway/Quixtar/AMO/QMO offers or presents. You have made your minds up to do so.
I have made my mind up to take advantage of this phenomenal business opportunity and to share it (and the products) with as many people as I possibly can.
God bless you.
Any physicians out there? Is it physically possible for water with pumped in oxygen increase body flexibility?
I'm not a doctor but I highly doubt that people who cannot bend over and touch their toes will be able to do so after a gulp of this water.
"I'd love to know what kinds of outrageous claims are being made. Care to expound?"
First of all no one said anything about anyone making "outrageous" claims. Matter of fact you are the first person to use the word "outrageous" when referring to the claims made. So perhaps you can keep to the topic the way it has been presented and spare us the typical IBO drama that so many IBOs like to use when they play victim.
Second, the claims are that this product will increase strength, balance, and flexibility with just one ounce and will do so within seconds. According to Quixtar the only claims that are supposed to be made about this product are the ones on the perfect water website and Quixtar website. I don't see those claims on either site.
"We demo them. Many times against the next largest selling "competitive" (lol) product. 99% of the time, it's no comparison. In our experiences, we win every time."
That is funny, because the demo really doesn't matter a whole lot once the price is usually revealed.
"I don't see what the big deal is guys. After coming to this site on and off for awhile I've come to the conclusion that you guys will find something wrong with anyting Amway/Quixtar/AMO/QMO offers or presents. You have made your minds up to do so."
So I guess what is good for the goose is not good for the gander. Care to back that claim up with some actual facts. Because the truth be told if you were to actually do your homework on this site and those who comment you will find that there are products that people like, and there are things that Amway has done that other agree with. But I guess you are one of those who wishes to join the ranks of the other narrow-minded IBOs who just see a critic and instead of listening for themselves, they just buy into all the assumptions that were taught to them by their holy uplines.
"what is your guys promblem i just came back from a tranning course and they had bottles of the perfict water...and did the test and i was one of thoses guys on stage for the first time and never had talked to the guy doing it..the water really did do what it say's it can do.....give it time.....iam sold on this stuff tpdate i have 45 case on order...u do the math....
John,
What exactly am I supposed to calculate from you buying 45 cases of water?
I posted some interesting perfect water testimonials on the critics section of the forum.
The REAL Truth! writes: "We have done many "tip tests". We did not go through any special training. We pulled the "how to" sheet right from the perfect water website. "
CK asks: You say you got the tip-test instructions right off the website? Isn't the website sponsored by Q*? Q*, who is telling all you IBOs to cut that out?
What am I missing here?
Eric,
Pure old fashioned hucksterism. It was known to take in suckers back in the day, and guess what, it still takes in suckers today. As much as things change, they pretty much remain the same.
I guess there is a market for products like this, at least amongst gullible IBO Consumers.
Why not show me some of your retail muscle, retail those ten outside customers and make that 70% rule that that legitimizes your Biz.
Seeing is believing; until then you've got another over priced product to add to your monthy purchases. It is a good thing it works: you will need the extra flexibility to grab your ankles while the tool kingpins and Amway Dons have their way with you.
The business is good, and the water is good... the problem is how can we take Amway seriously with these "demonstrations".. It reminds me of all of those westerns I used to watch growing up.. you know, the ones with the guy in a white suit that's selling a miracle drink that is a medicine, stain-remover, laxitive, and beverage all in one... It makes them look like scam-artists.
And, yes, I have an eSpring too. And I'll be keeping mine.. hehe
Since all these IBOs are so swayed by testimonials and demos - their houses must be packed with late-night infomercial products!
Next!
Hi Truth!
Aren't these videos goofy? I saw the "tests" live, with people that I know, and it's pretty wild.
Then I did the "tests" with just one ounce of water and it's just plain weird. Your mind is saying, "how can this be happening", while your body is doing what the videos show.
It's wacky, I know. And all this talk about the person is manipulating the tipping. Whatever. That myth can be instantly shattered when you have both people--the tipper and the tippe--being the skeptical ones.
It's really fun.
Pretty freaky, but fun! I know it looks goofy if you don't do it yourself, but kind of a nice attention-graber, don't ya think?
Sure's gotten a ton of attention in the last few weeks. Thanks!
I've talked to six people (potential customers) about the water, and out of those six people, I've advanced ordered six cases for four of them (which they paid for). And the other two are open to trying it when I get some.
The water hasn't been released yet. Another few weeks before it starts to ship. So Quixtar and the IBOs and the water website are working out all the kinks (seeing all the crap on the Internet that is popping up and addressing it--like taking the "tests instructions" off the water website) before it officially launches.
Veeeeery smart move.
By the way, Scott Larsen uploaded the videos? The critic? How'd he get them?
Truth, did you delete the message I submitted last night warning IBOs not to exaggerate claims, giving a link to what Quixtar Rules had to say -- and, if so, could you tell me why, at least by private email?
"Truth, did you delete the message I submitted last night warning IBOs not to exaggerate claims, giving a link to what Quixtar Rules had to say -- and, if so, could you tell me why, at least by private email?"
No, I did not delete any comment like that. But since this site gets pounded with spam I wouldn't rule out that it got junked by accident. If that is the case sorry about that, you can post your comment again if you like.
This works. We have seen the effect in person about 30 times. In our house we asked for negative non-ibo visitors. The effect works in 30 to 60 seconds every time. See it live and try it in late April after public release. Jumping to conclusions is dumb but great exercise. Retail is $1.99 for 16.9oz and real benfits. I am a Pharmacist and wife is Registered Nurse
Truth,
There is a simple reason people don't tip the second time. They are bracing for it because they know what's about to happen. They are resisting to being pulled. Is there any scientific facts to back this water up?
Ever wonder why "Evian" is spelled "Naive" backwards?
Uh michael, u are a pharmacist and ur wife is a nurse, isn't selling some thing and benefiting form it becomes conflict of interest? ur customers may buy into it impressed by ur credentials?
Makes me sick, ironically, thinking about it.
My sponsor was an accountant, I thought well, he is a smart fella, at least about money...
Truth,
YOU guys are the ones saying that outrageous (yes, I chose to use that word) claims are being made. The point I got from your original comment was that you guys were 'up in arms' about some claims being made. What claims?
It DOES immediately improve balance, flexibility & strength after being consumed. I KNOW it does because I've seen it (as I stated earlier) with my very own eyes multiple times!!! We've demoed on downline, prospects, total strangers, chiropractors, doctors, etc. and it has gotten a positive result every single time, leaving the person impressed. They are even impressed with the price which again, is $1.99 retail & $1.70 wholesale for a 16 oz. bottle. VERY competitively priced! Especially when you consider the quality of the water.
CK,
Did you catch that? This is one (of many) product that you can NOT say is overpriced for what you get. Just wait and try it for yourself. That way, you can actually speak from experience, for a change.
Truth,
You say the demo of our products doesn't matter once the price is revealed. Where the heck did you get that info.? Surely not from personal experience. Because when we demo our Nutrilite, XS, Trim Advantage & SA8 products and then reveal the prices, we get customers every time! No exaggeration!
Truth,
It really hurts your credibility when you speak without any experience to back up your statements & claims.
And by the way Truth, I HAVE done my "homework" and can in all honesty, tell you that I have seen "critics" tear apart every single rational, logical & even emotional arguement that any IBO has submitted. It has made me wonder what your objective is. It's certainly NOT to share the truth. And it's certainly NOT to be objective about this business. You and your fellow critics have been clear all along that you hate this business model & you are at the very least, out to destroy the AMO's/QMO's, if not the entire corporation.
"YOU guys are the ones saying that outrageous (yes, I chose to use that word) claims are being made. The point I got from your original comment was that you guys were 'up in arms' about some claims being made. What claims?"
First of all no one is up in arms about anything. The simple point of this post is that claims are being made by IBOs that both perfect water and Quixtar deny, and Quixtar has even gone through the trouble of warning IBOs that they could be disciplined for making such claims.
"It DOES immediately improve balance, flexibility & strength after being consumed. I KNOW it does because I've seen it (as I stated earlier) with my very own eyes multiple times!!!"
...and this matters why? I am not trying to argue if it works or not. I will let others make up their mind on that. But those very claims you just made are not approved by either Quixtar or Perfect Water and therefore are not to be made by IBOs. Those are Quixtar's rules my friend not mine.
"It really hurts your credibility when you speak without any experience to back up your statements & claims."
You mean like you making claims that the company that sells the product won't even back up. It not only hurts your credibility but all IBOs when you come here and clearly don't know what claims you are not supposed to be making about your products.
"You and your fellow critics have been clear all along that you hate this business model & you are at the very least, out to destroy the AMO's/QMO's, if not the entire corporation."
Please show me where I have ever said that I hate Quixtar or Amway, and where I have stated that my mission was to "destroy the entire corporation". My guess is that you won't be able to do so.
quote:
"CK,
Did you catch that? This is one (of many) product that you can NOT say is overpriced for what you get. Just wait and try it for yourself. That way, you can actually speak from experience, for a change."
What do you 'get', exactly? Have you performed the "tip test" as a double-blind? Do you have any peer-reveiwed scientific studies to back up what you allege this water "does"?
Even your beloved Q* has told you guys to stop making the unsupported claims of increased strenth and flexibility.
I wonder why that is?
Welcome back Tony!
Now I'm off to my local car dealer who will give $10,000 over "book value" for my trade-in! Or maybe I can be in their "test program" where I don't have a monthly payment for a new car and just pay for the gas I use! Forever!(since all testamonials are gospel)
Rrrriiiight!!
Hello Truth,
Well the weird thing is I was very skeptical of this product. With my background and history I I too was skeptical. The issue is I tried it and it is Real! Great Amazing product! It appears Amway will have the market on this one. The only real thing you can do it try it for yourself. It is amazingly weird that it works the way it does and it is a great product that IBOs can retail to. I am a believer only after I tried it and experienced the results and no it is not some goofy set up. I challange everyone to not say a word until you have tried it yourself. I say that because I lauaghed to before I tried it. Now I am speachless.
One gulp of water and your flexibility increases.
Do IBOs realize how ridiculous that is?
It's only water.
The tests appear to work because of something called a "self fulfilling prophecy. Think about it.
I am certainly glad that our pharmacist is not named Michael whose wife is a registered nurse.
Is that David Shores on the video making those claims?
Good Lord.
Wow...I'm glad I got out when I did.
From the drinkperfectwater.com website FAQ section:
What is the source of Perfect Empowered Drinking Water?
There’s a lot of hype going around about the source of bottled waters with companies claiming their water is better because it is from a spring, a deep well, an aquifer, a glacier, distilled water, artesian water, or other sources. Regardless of the source and individual preferences, none of it is good enough for our high quality standards. We start with safe water sources tested to be suitable for drinking water and then give it a clean slate with our proprietary 15-step purification process and other technologies so that the water that goes into the bottle is nothing less than “perfect.”
I love the line: We start with safe water sources tested to be suitable for drinking water and then give it a clean slate...
Interpreted: Tap Water
Hello..I am a former IBO and I remember that Quixtar was about to do a product launch a few years ago with Perfect Water (it was called Super H20 or something like that). Some of the Diamonds and Emeralds were walking around the functions with these in clear plastic bottles w/ red tops. Then, for whatever reason, they decided wasn't the right time and they pulled it out. Though it may not be accurate, from what I heard it was something about the "micro-clusters" going back into its original state once the bottle was opened - therefore returning to regular water - not a good shelf life. If that's true, I commend the company for taking out a product that wasn't perfected or at least close to perfected.
There's a lot of hoopla here that it's just "water", but there's a LOT of 3rd party research out there regarding micro-clustered and ionized water. Micro-clustered in being, the water molecules are so condensed that it passes through our body tissues much easier resulting in a higher absorption rate rather than the water just passing through our bodies. Higher alkalinity provides restoration in the body.
At least, that's what MOST of the research I've read points to. There's plenty of research out there and most are from years ago, way before Quixtar even thought of selling this. Some sites (and some close friends from Japan) say that Japan has been doing this to their water in most of there hospitals now and that it's an accepted medical practice. How accurate is this, I don't know, I've never been to Japan. But I do know that Japan's medicinal practices are very different in that most of their culture does believe in herbs and prevention vs western medicinal practices of just treating the symptoms of a problem.
I am neither for or against this water from Quixtar, but I do believe in the science behind it. The real question is whether this particular brand exclusive to Quixtar (since it's a outside source) says what it says it does and their patented process really makes the water into this "super water".
I hope that IBOs take heed to what the corporation says what they cannot say until approved. I left the company after reaching Platinum for personal reasons, but I'd hate to see the company take another hit from its reputation, because immature IBOs can't follow the rules (which includes high ranking IBOs). It wouldn't be good to have them seen like another "Noni" or "Xango" company because of the claims of its distributors.
The reason that Quixtar told everybody to stop making claims about the water was because somebody started sending out some voicemail messages. (At least in my LoS) One was about a guy in a wheelchair who suddenly was able to stretch without his muscle relaxants, and the other was about a headache that disappeared. That takes the water into the murky waters of Xango and other products where they started making medical claims that might have just been a fluke. (My wife's parents were telling us that Xango cured cancer, arthritis, liver problems, joint issues, colds, etc.)
As for the tests, I can't make any claims for anybody else, but I can say that when I have tried these tests on others, I let the try it as many times as they want so that they can get ready for what is going to happen, stretch out, warm up, etc. We normally had them try to stretch our 2-3 times minimum (unless they wanted to do more), and tried to "tip" them 2-3 times before they had the water. We did this after reading the AmQuix page to make sure that the claims of stretching out/warming up/being ready for the "tip" were taken care of.
But, I wish we were still getting those voicemails. Some of them were pretty funny. One of them had somebody using that water in his sleep apnea machine and it let him sleep better, and live longer, and wake up earlier, and be more rested, etc, etc, etc, and it went on for almost 5 minutes.
Hope that answers some questions ya'll had about why Q* did what they did
Truth,
Currently, we can say that it improves
Balance
Strength
and
Flexiblity
These are not listed on Quixtar.com, but at Quixtar.com is says "A complete list of usable claims is available at www.drinkperfectwater.com. The claims will be updated as Quixtar and the manufacturer complete the review."
Those claims are under the "Why Buy Perfect Water" tab on the drinkperfectwater.com
I say "currently", because, as I said, "The claims will be updated as Quixtar and the manufacturer complete the review."
That's why, even though Quixtar did ask for the videos to be taken down, they really are not making any claims which are not CURRENTLY allowed.
It's Scott Larsen who re-uploaded the videos and put false claims, like the word "miracle" in the titles and the descriptions. The videos, originallly posted by IBOs did not make those "unacceptable" claims.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GDHMfe7T6pw
An Oxygen stabilized water? OK, but what did they do to stabilize the hydrogen? If they stabilized that too then the stuff would be a very very special H2O. IF they stabilized the hydrogen.... well maybe not you know the old ..." oh the humanity!" stuff and all....
OK, I just gave one of the guys in my office the tip test, but I used the techniques explained in Larson's video. We didn't have any magic healing waters, but we did have 9-5 coffee (the only Amquix Product I still use). Man this stuff is amazing. My co-worker nearly fell over at first, THEN AFTER JUST ONE SIP OF 9to5, I couldn't even budge him.
Wonder what would happen if I made the coffee with Perfect Water. Hmmmmmm
Or maybe I could renew my IBOship, and make KOOL-AID with the perfect water. Nope, from the posts here, sounds like somebody already had that idea!
For all the 'oh my gosh it's real' people out there wasting their money and looking foolish:
Find someone who is good at giving your magic tests. Place some of your magic water in cups, and place some regular tap water in other cups. Have the 'tip-master' administer the tests to folks not knowing whether it's the magic water or just plain tap water. The tester should not know that you are switching waters.
You'll be amazed when you find out plain old tap water has the same effect when the tester thinks it's magic water.
Then open your wallets and see how much money you just wasted.
I guess my other comment was too long or something because it didn't make it onto the comments. So I'll try to make this one shorter. Shame, I had some good stories in it...
I think they pulled the videos and demonstrations from drinkperfectwater.com because we in WWDB had started to get messages about medical claims. Things like, "It got rid of my headache", or "I don't have to take my prescribed muscle relaxants".
Those are obviously out of the bounds of what we can say, because not everybody actually gets those benefits from the water. We had almost a message a day for a week telling us not to send out these messages, but people just kept sending them out. So, we got a message saying that everything needs to be taken off of YouTube, etc, because people kept doing what we are not supposed to do.
It was getting to the point that Xango is at/was at. My wife's parents told us that Xango would cure cancer, arthritis, the flu, and two or three other ailments. And that's what the messages that we were getting had started to sound like.
Truth,
I re-read what I wrote and it came off a bit aggressive. I want to apologize for that.
Hey, all of you, go to drinkperfectwater.com and print off the pdf. It will backup all that we IBO's are saying.
By the way, to you skeptics (of which I was one as well....I laughed at the claims too until I saw some in person and heard some from my spouse): I have done tip tests where I did not tell the person anything. Nothing. At all. Then, I've had THEM do the tip test to another person. So, there's no 'rigging' or 'scamming'. We simply say "hey, you gotta see this" or "hey, you gotta check this out" and then they see the results for themselves.
Just wait and try it for yourself, ok? It will be a good product to retail, like the XS & the SA8 & the LOC & the Simply Nutrilite & the Artistry products.
That's really what the corp. is trying to do. Give us products that are competitively priced & have an advantage over competition (value, quality, convenience) so that IBO's can make a profit right out of the gate. I got 2 more IBO's started this weekend and I have another training session tonight.
I didn't mean to sound harsh. Just try it for yourself when it becomes available in the next few weeks.
Thanks.
Ever hear of the "placebo effect." A good study would be to do the "tip test" with tap water. Bet if you tell people it's the perfect water and have them drink it out of the bottle, the results will be exactly the same. The stretch test is also funny. Every time you stretch, your muscles become more flexible. Try the toe touching test w/out drinking anything. Bet you can stretch farther the second time regardless, because your muscles are more warm!
I also don't know how extra oxygen from water is supposed to get into my bloodstream. I don't have gills! I breathe my oxygen in from my lungs, and the oxygen in water is used to help hydrate me and remove waste through ionic bonding of other organic materials (nice way of decribing going #1 in the bathroom). If I had to get my oxygen from water and was human, I'd be in real trouble, since that's the number one cause of drowning!
I have it on good authority that tipping shows were going on last night (March 30, 2008. IBOs are ignoring orders to stop the hucksterism.
I will believe it after I see REAL, unbiased tests proving that this works as the videos claim after one ounce in seconds. Until then....do IBO's have any clue how dumb they look? This is not helping Amway at all. Not even a month after the name change...and look at the great start. What a joke.
It doesn't matter what you say to these IBOs. They are convinced of the effects and that's all that matters to them. All they see are dollar signs and if you disagree with them, they are going to argue more.
I guess if I drink a case, I should be able to do the splits shouldn't I? Now that would be cool! Where can I buy some?
Truth,
Will you please update your update?
My 3/31 @6:56 am post informs you that IBOs CAN make claims of:
Balance
Strength
and
Flexiblity.
And that's what the videos show.
Thank you, TRUTH.
~Jane.
By the way, to you skeptics (of which I was one as well....I laughed at the claims too until I saw some in person and heard some from my spouse): I have done tip tests where I did not tell the person anything. Nothing. At all. Then, I've had THEM do the tip test to another person. So, there's no 'rigging' or 'scamming'.
Sigh - you're not doing the scamming (that you know of). You're the one getting scammed.
Because you fell for it is not proof, in any way, that it isn't a scam and the claims are true.
To John,
"What exactly am I supposed to calculate from you buying 45 cases of water?"
The fact that you can buy it as a great product from Amway/Quixtar instead of the gas station or store and get PV/BV! It is just another product I can drink and I can retail it up to what ever I want and make money on it with an honest water need that everyone has. Remember it is pretty closely priced with stores, the kicker is not the fact that it has some other benefits but it is however cleaner and more purified than any real competition. Dah! that is why 45 cases were bought, why be so cynical just because we are excited about it. Amway will hit a home run with this one. It is great for all Athletes and virtually every American who’s concerned about drink purified water. It is like e-spring to go:)
HEY TRUTH,
YOU REMOVED THE QUIXTAR EMAIL ABOUT THIS ENTIRE ISSUE! THE EMAIL WAS ABOUT THE CLAIMS. YOUR POST IS SLANDEROUS AND A DICRACE TO THE ISSUE OF INTEGRITY. I HOPE PEOPLE SEE YOUR INTENT HERE. PEOPLE ARE NOT PROMOTING THINGS WRONGLY. ONLY YOU ARE WITH THIS NEGATIVE POSTED ADD. DON'T BE A PLAYER HATER JUST BECAUSE WE GOT A COOL NEW PRODUCT THAT ONLY HELPS THE IBO CAUSE! IF YOU’RE ABOUT TRUTH THEN REPOST THE EMAIL IN YOUR DESCIPTION BEFORE THE BLOGS. THEN THIS BLOG TOPIC WILL NOT HOLD WATER!
March, 2008
Perfect Empowered Drinking Water Claims
To qualified Platinums and above,
As you are aware, in April Quixtar will launch Perfect Empowered Drinking Water™, a refreshing premium drinking water infused with MBO™, which is produced using a proprietary process that stabilizes oxygen in water. The product is not manufactured by Access Business Group and is being sourced from an outside vendor.
IBOs must take care not to exaggerate the product’s effectiveness or imply that it can be used for medicinal purposes. Only claims and demonstrations which have been approved may be used to promote this product.
We are in the process of reviewing and substantiating demonstrable claims. We hope to complete these tests as soon as possible and will add additional claims and demonstrations as they are substantiated. Upon the conclusion of the review, we will provide a list of substantiated and approved claims that IBOs can use to market this product. Quixtar will provide you with an update on the status of all tests and claims prior to shipping product, which is scheduled for mid-April. Until then, we appreciate the cooperation of IBOs in using only published and approved claims.
The Rules of Conduct prohibit an IBO from making any exaggerated product claims or any claims not supported in authorized product literature. If an IBO is found to be in violation of this rule, Quixtar will require the IBO to correct the misinformation and may apply sanctions up to an immediate six-month suspension. Please keep in mind that the Corporation also has a Zero Tolerance Policy against any unauthorized websites or unauthorized advertising. If you would like to promote Perfect Water on the internet or in any other medium, please submit the request to Rules Administration for authorization at qbcr.department@quixtar.com or by calling 616-787-6712.
Approved claims include the following:
1. Perfect Empowered Drinking Water is a great-tasting, refreshing, and thirst-quenching premium drinking water.
2. A proprietary 15-step manufacturing process results in a purified, remineralized, ionized, microstructured, and stabilized oxygen drinking water.
3. Perfect Empowered Drinking Water is infused with MBO, which is produced using a proprietary process that stabilizes oxygen in water.
4. The product is purified using carbon and UV technology similar to what is used to create eSpring® purified water.
5. Perfect Empowered Drinking Water contains essential trace minerals, including potassium, calcium, and magnesium.
6. The “Perfect Empowered Drinking Water” brand, manufactured using the proprietary MBO process, is exclusive to Quixtar.
A complete list of usable claims is available at www.drinkperfectwater.com. The claims will be updated as Quixtar and the manufacturer complete the review.
If you have any questions about this email, please contact Business Conduct and Rules or your Quixtar Sales Advisor.
Sandy Spielmaker
Vice President – Sales
Quixtar/Amway Global
In spite of the tipping hoax, the toe touching and hip turns are just a case of human nature. Take a group of people and tell them to reach up as high as they possibly can, have them relax,then tell them to really really reach as high as they can, almost all of them will reach higher. This is an old Zig Ziglar trick to demonstrate that people have to be prodded to get out of their comfort zone.
I would expect the people to reach the floor better or turn farther because by now the huckster has established an air of expectancy, and the victim is going to do everything they can to not disappoint; so they stretch their comfort zone.
Another shame in this new product is that now IBO's will be promoting a product that produces tons of waste through plastic bottles rather than the former water purification systems that were actually eco-friendly. Shame on Quixtar/Amway. Every forward thinking company on Earth, including Wal-Mart, is touting green products and Amway is coming out with another bottled water.
"Truth,
Will you please update your update?
My 3/31 @6:56 am post informs you that IBOs CAN make claims of:
Balance
Strength
and
Flexiblity.
And that's what the videos show."
Jane,
No, I will not update my update. Your logic for how you are somehow able to make a claim that perfect water has anything to do with balance, strength and flexibility is so off I find it quite disturbing actually.
The page on the site that you are referring to says (in quite the advertising fashion) that it MAY help with balance, strength, and flexibility. In other words they are not making any such claim. Also, in the FAQ section it is quite clear that the perfect water company is not making any claims other then they make a good bottle of drinking water, and the videos show IBOs making more claims then that.
So, my update and article are correct and right and will not be updated.
Thanks
"YOU REMOVED THE QUIXTAR EMAIL ABOUT THIS ENTIRE ISSUE! THE EMAIL WAS ABOUT THE CLAIMS.
What's with the all CAPS? First I have not removed any such e-mail, because I never posted any e-mail in my article in the first place. Second, I have two comments that have been published that are communications from Quixtar about what claims are allowed to be made. Perhaps you should take the time to read before you start yelling at others.
"YOUR POST IS SLANDEROUS AND A DICRACE TO THE ISSUE OF INTEGRITY. I HOPE PEOPLE SEE YOUR INTENT HERE."
OK, first legal 101 lesson. Slander is spoken, so since I did not speak anything on a blog slander cannot possibly apply. The term I think you are looking for is libel. However, that does not apply either since my article does not even come close to anything resembling libel.
I would agree that it is an issue of integrity and now I wonder about your integrity accusing me of such a charge without any solid evidence to back that claim. My bet is that people are wondering what you intent is.
"PEOPLE ARE NOT PROMOTING THINGS WRONGLY."
Sorry, but according to Quixtar people are promoting things wrongly. I have yet to see where it is approved to make the claim that the water improves balance, flexibility, and strength with one ounce in a matter of seconds.
"ONLY YOU ARE WITH THIS NEGATIVE POSTED ADD."
Yes, I know it is so negative to question claims people make about products, we should all just believe all the advertising like a bunch of mindless drones.
"DON'T BE A PLAYER HATER JUST BECAUSE WE GOT A COOL NEW PRODUCT THAT ONLY HELPS THE IBO CAUSE!"
LOL!! You have a bottle of water, you do realize that right? I have no doubt that a good bottled water could help IBOs, but just like many other things it seems the IBOs are getting out of control with exactly what the water does and once again are only hurting their cause.
"IF YOU’RE ABOUT TRUTH THEN REPOST THE EMAIL IN YOUR DESCIPTION BEFORE THE BLOGS. THEN THIS BLOG TOPIC WILL NOT HOLD WATER!"
I can't repost something that was never posted in the first place. Besides as I have already mentioned there are two comments that have been published that are communications from Quixtar about what claims are allowed to be made and those communications say nothing about being allowed to make the kinds of claims that are in the videos. Perhaps you should try and use some logic next time before getting all worked up before you post.
I've been doing a lot of searching on the web after I heard about the Perfect
Water from Amway. I was one of those guys who really gave a friend of mine a hard time about his Quixtoid business. She told me about this Perfect Water, and invited to me take part in a demonstration. I broke my back in a car wreck 3 years ago and have not been able to touch my toes since then. I want to make an official apology to my friend, Diane Sanders, because I am personally one of those people who are completely sold on Perfect Water. I was able to nearly put the palms of my hands on the ground only 10 seconds after I drank 1 ounce of the water. I was more than skeptical beforehand, but I welcome all the skeptics to give it a chance. I've ordered 20 cases!!!!
It seems that Perfect Water also affects the abilities of IBOs to read and then offer cogent legal advice.
I’d put that one in the ‘approved claims’ column.
A couple of years ago I thought I was way out there predicting that the next great IBO product would be bottled air. Seems I wasn’t that far off…
Hey Dirty Shoes and Truth,
That sounds like a good name. The point is however you claim it is a Ziggy trick. Well I hope you can shut up until you try it out for yourself. Nothing worse than 99% of all these people talking or complaining who have not even tried it yet. Most of your complaints would come no matter what great new product we get. I am at least smart enough to not rain on someone’s parade without knowing the facts or trying something first. You and other like truth are against anything great IBO get access to. Fact is the business is getting better and has so many awesome improvements in just the last 2 years and more is coming. At what point are you going to stop being so pessimistic?
Johnny Ringo and Truth,
Awesome Ringo. I hope you do not delete Ringo's post. Truth you should actually start posting this blog in reverse order because you will start seeing more and more real and positive experiences that are not hoax sales deals instead of you few common Q/A negative junkies. Good stuff, Ringo! I am sure as this product really roles out your going to hear more and more positive real experiences. Thanks you Amway!
Jenny, I post here in hopes of saving someone else from the AmQuix nightmare that nearly destroyed my family. With excerpts such as the following:
YOU REMOVED THE QUIXTAR EMAIL ABOUT THIS ENTIRE ISSUE! THE EMAIL WAS ABOUT THE CLAIMS. YOUR POST IS SLANDEROUS AND A DICRACE TO THE ISSUE OF INTEGRITY. I HOPE PEOPLE SEE YOUR INTENT HERE. PEOPLE ARE NOT PROMOTING THINGS WRONGLY. ONLY YOU ARE WITH THIS NEGATIVE POSTED ADD. DON'T BE A PLAYER HATER JUST BECAUSE WE GOT A COOL NEW PRODUCT THAT ONLY HELPS THE IBO CAUSE! IF YOU’RE ABOUT TRUTH THEN REPOST THE EMAIL IN YOUR DESCIPTION BEFORE THE BLOGS. THEN THIS BLOG TOPIC WILL NOT HOLD WATER!
You make my presence here nearly superfluous.
Thank you.
I was skeptical at first...being a paraplegic and all... but after that first swig of "Perfect Water", I bolted right up and out of that wheelchair and signed up for ballroom dance lessons!!
Why are people here so against helping others????????
Sob!!
Porkchopjim,
Be careful what you say or wish for. LMAO!!!!!!
U.S. Navy and IBO
~Eric
Hey Truth,
If you are going to be thorough in your investigation, are you going to have to mention that all these "tests" on these videos (which were recorded sometime between March 1st and March 8th) were in written form on the www.drinkperfectwater.com website until March 27th.
The written instructions were taken down AND the videos were taken down on March 27th--19 days AFTER the newest videos were recorded.
The water HAS NOT BEEN RELEASED YET.
But for whatever reason you, and the likes of you, like Scott Larsen who chose to reupload (steal) these videos that he fished out of in Temp Internet files on his hard drive, are rehashing stuff for a PRODUCT THAT ISN'T EVEN YET ON THE MARKET.
What is your point?
Jenny,
So you like to just continue to write comments at me but apparently you have nothing to say to my responses to you? I find that quite interesting to say the least since you were bold enough at the start to make some allegations about me without a shred of evidence.
I am sure there will be many more stories like Ringo's story, there always are. Interestingly enough, people like you always seem to believe a good testimony without question, but always seem to question a not so good testimony.
The problem with revisionists like you, you have forgotten what the topic was about. This article was about the claims that IBOs were making and nothing more.
I never once said the water did not work, I never once said it was horrible or anything of the like. But perhaps I am wasting my time trying to explain this to you. You seem to be much more interested in telling your points to everyone else instead of listening to anyone.
Jane,
What is your point?
First off I am not doing an "investigation". I have made an observation about what I think are quite the extraordinary claims about a bottle of water.
Had I known those instructions were on the site I would have mentioned it. (and IBOs say the critics are the ones with all the conspiracy theories). Unfortunately for you those instructions are no longer there, and I guess I just missed them considering I wrote this article on March 27th.
Apparently this accusation stuff must be contagious. I would love to see your proof that I stole any videos, or even that I uploaded any videos to youtube. Is this Standard Procedure for IBOs now to just blindly make accusations against people with no proof.
I do find it interesting however that you claim the videos were taken down on March 27th and then apparently I re-uploaded some videos (an accusation you have made against me with no proof I might add) and that Scott Larsen joined in the fun as well. However, the videos that I have embedded on this article were uploaded on March 20th and March 24th respectively. Maybe you can explain how a video gets re-uploaded before it gets taken down since your dates don't match your story.
Or perhaps you will just wish to make more accusations with no proof, it seems to be the common theme for a couple of you on this thread.
I was a skeptic at first....then I put some perfect water in the DeLorean's Flux-Capacitor and ramped that baby up to 88!! Hello 1955!!
Had George drink some water and he promptly went out and beat up Biff Tannen and took over his casino!!
I pre-ordered 16,435 cases!! Take that negative people - everyone in my family will become super-duper humans! (though Mallory is a lost cause)
Sit Ubu sit. Good dog! (WOOF!)
Truth,
1)Go you your buddy's website, Scott Larsen. He's got the entire Perfect Water website on it BEFORE the edits in a shockwave file under "Due Diligence" under "New Pages".
If you need screen shots of the pages I'm talking about, I'll be happy to point you in another direction, but I figure you'd take your buddy Scott Larsen's word over mine. So go to his site first.
2) The videos that were stolen are not these "phyical" ones that you've embedded on your website. But you got this Shores video from YouTube (or whoever you got it from got it from YouTube), right?
Those videos were removed by IBOs, per Quixtar by the 27th. And then your buddy, Scott Larsen, "amwaywater" is his username on YouTube, re-uploaded them and changed the titles and the descriptions, to include words like "miracle" in order to bring false claims lawsuits against Amway.
What else can I shed some light on for you "Truth"?
If you were really about truth, you'd do a whole post on THAT, instead of having my comment buried 100 deep.
And, just to point out, ALL this was done--the removal of the instructions on the website and all the videos from YouTube BEFORE the water is even released.
But God forbid the critics should allow any PRE-LAUNCH “mistake” go unnoticed.
It's like my child saying, "Mommy, Johnny hit me!"
And me asking, "Well then what happened?"
"He said he was sorry."
Okay...what is your point, child?
Truth,
I just looked at the "menu" on your Shores video. And the URL takes you to a video uploaded by "amwaywater" at YouTube--Scott Larsen.
Isn't it interesting that Scott Larsen specifically talks on his website about this video you chose to embed?
He writes, "Over the Easter weekend however distributors got the call to remove all the videos. Some of the earlier David Shores videos were removed before the Easter weekend."
Looking at my notes, I see that Mr. Larsen explained on his website how he fished out the videos from his Temp Files and changed the ext. name and then re-uploaded them.
I see that it wasn't as late as the 27th. He re-uploaded 19 of them around 5 am (East Coast time) on March 21st. And then added 7 more soon after for a total of 26 stolen videos. As I write this, 4 are gone, so maybe there are some IBOs doing the "copyright infringment" process.
He has since edited some of them a bit, putting cute little titles on the front (not), and uploaded the "improved" versions about a week ago.
So you are right. I stand corrected. Most videos were taken down before the 24th, and the one you chose to embed is a re-upload of Scott Larsen’s “amwaywater” username at YouTube.
CK,
How did the company Quixtar nearly destroy your family? If you don't mind me asking.
Jenny
I appreciate your enthusiasm for your business opportunity, and I really appreciate your compliment to my handle. First of all you should understand that I appreciate completely where you are. For almost 15 years I helped my upline send their kids to school, buy fancy cars, make their books best sellers on the NY Times list. Which of course is why I chose the handle, because of all the uh, well, stuff I stepped in while in the business, and yes my wife and I were Rubies. I’ve seen the hype and yes I’ve seen “Ziggy” do his “trick” at one of those precious, upline promoted meetings, oh and the business was doing $7B/year then. So I think I have enough experience with the business to spot “hucksterism” within the business without filling a landfill with plastic (guess the United Nations will be revoking their environmental award), or growing gills to absorb oxygen from water.
If I’ve rained on your parade, I apologize. But I would hope that you too would “shut up” long enough to look at the facts. Notwithstanding the “Ziggy” (a most disrespectful term to use on a strong supporter of your business) “trick”, I think there is some very basic evidence as to the huckster, snake oil, aspect of the business. 1) Your supplier has told you to quit making the claims and doing the demonstrations; 2) Nobody on this blog has provided credible, duplicatable, scientific evidence of a double blind study, using scientific methods to back up your miracle claims; 3) - and I think this is the most damning - The only medical evidence that has been presented on this blog has been from some pharmacist named Michael, whose wife is a registered nurse. You stand among giants!
Jane,
You need three comments just to reply? You apparently have some issues that you need to understand have nothing to do with the article I wrote.
First of all I don't care where the videos came from, this article has nothing to do with the origins of these videos on youtube. I did nothing more then choose one random video showing the tip test and then Scott Larsen's video with his theory on how the test was rigged. I left it to the readers to make up their own mind.
Since you keep missing it I will tell you again this article has to do with the claims being made about this water.
It is apparent that you live in this fantasy land where you think that now since the claims are off the website there will be no more IBOs making the claims that were being done in the video. Well here in reality we know better. I have to point no further then your own comment to prove this where you wanted me to update because you claim you are allowed to say that the water helps balance, flexibility and strength, yet perfect water says they make no such claim themselves.
It seems by your comments you just aren't getting the attention you think you deserve. Well sorry, but this article has nothing to do with what you apparently want to rant about. But you are of course free to start your own blog anytime.
"Truth",
You know I'm right. You know I am so right, that you change the subject.
You critics are all the same...
You win. You've worn me down. Keep your little blog and your blogworld. If people think THIS is truth, if they think THIS is reality...
Please. Scott Larsen stalks people who disagree with them, and posts pictures of their children, posts pictures of their houses, and posts their addresses and telephone numbers on line.
THAT is the world you are a part of Drew. THAT is the kind of people you get your "facts" from?
You guys are seriously messed up.
Hi Jenny,
There is a new video on youtube for you guys!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OnfE7CX7hTw
Truth should not be so forward as to indicate that no one here doubts that the 'miracle water' works.
Count me as now officially on record saying that your 'miracle water' demonstrations are bunk.
Count me as now officially on record saying that your 'miracle water' has no great properties or benefits above any other purified bottled water.
And I'm sorry that someone caught IBOs doing stupid things and we don't ignore it because they removed the files.
You'd have a hard time convincing me that these 'miracle demonstrations' aren't still going on when we have testimonial after testimonial here about how great this magic water is.
Truth,
I just re-read your "answer" to me.
You say:First of all I don't care where the videos came from (OBVIOUSLY--AND THAT'S THE POINT I AM MAKING)
I did nothing more then choose one random video showing the tip test and then Scott Larsen's video with his theory on how the test was rigged.(THE 'ONE RANDOM VIDEO' IS FROM SCOTT LARSEN, CRITIC EXTRAORDINAIRE OF THE AMWAY/QUIXTAR BUSINESS. HE IS 'AMWAYWATER' AT YOUTUBE.)
Since you keep missing it I will tell you again this article has to do with the claims being made about this water. (SINCE YOU KEEP MISSING IT, I WILL TELL YOU AGAIN, THE VIDEOS YOU ARE USING TO ARGUE ABOUT CLAIMS BEING MADE WERE ALL TAKEN DOWN BY IBOS--AN ENTIRE MONTH BEFORE THE WATER IS EVEN AVAILABLE--AND THEN RE-UPLOADED BY A CRITIC OF THE BUSINESS. AND NOW ANOTHER CRITIC,SOMEONE YOU KNOW VERY WELL,'WHOZWHO'.
Why is this so hard for you to understand? Because you don't want to understand, right?
So Jane you have gotten it down to only needing two comments to respond, but apparently you need to read my comment twice to even come close to getting a grasp on what I am saying. Which you have not done yet.
Jane, you are so worked up you can't even see clearly. Read my article again and show me exactly where I have endorsed Scott Larsen's video as "FACT"? Seriously, show me where.
I have embedded his video and another video to give anyone who reads this article a chance to see what goes on with the tip test, and then Larsen's theory on how it is rigged and let the reader decide for themselves. But I wait with eager anticipation for you to show me where I said it was "fact".
You come here wanting to revise everything so it meets your view of a critic. You want to make me out to be a bad guy who's unethical in hopes no one will listen. What you fail to realize is that I don't care if people listen or not. I have from the beginning encouraged everyone to not believe any one source and to do all their own research on this company and opportunity.
Sadly though you make yourself look foolish by spouting off things that are clearly not correct. So far you accused me of stealing videos which you have failed to show proof of. You have accused me of endorsing Larsen's video as being fact which you will not be able to show.
But just to throw some icing on the cake you have accused Larsen of posting pictures of people's kids and sadly you are not telling the whole story behind it. I know who you are talking about and the picture Larsen had up was linked to the site where that picture was posted by Insider already, where it was already publicly available. But again you are trying to revise things to the way you want them. Why do you feel the need to do that?
If all of this is over the point that I don't care where the videos came from then your point is taken and move on. What do you want me to say? I don't care that Larsen is "amwaywater" on youtube. The video is clearly a tip-test demonstration and that is what I was looking for. I wouldn't care if Barney Fife uploaded it, I would have still used it since it showed a tip-test.
Are you going to tell me that you believe since all the videos were taken down by IBOs that not one IBO will ever make a claim or do a tip-test when selling this water, or during an open meeting. Is there some sort of magical reaction by taking the videos down. Once again this post was never about videos on youtube, it was about this water and the claims that went along with it.
BTW, I have already pointed out that you said once before that you were allowed to say that the water helped with balance, flexibility, and strength yet the perfect water website disagrees with you and this was after the changed their site.
PCJ,
You are right I should not be so forward and so wherever I gave that indication I did not mean it that way. I for one will not comment on whether it works or not until I have tried it, but I do find the claims to be a bit out there.
Drew,
You say, "What you fail to realize is that I don't care if people listen or not."
That's a lie and you know it. Why else do you and all your cronies spend hours online posting? And when you are found to be WRONG in what you say, you start to personally attack and change the subject.
To CYA (cover your #$$) you say things like, "Blah, blah blah? An argument could be made either way and I won't comment on that question myself but again I will leave it up to you to make up your own mind."
That's like me saying, "Is your mother a whore? An argument could be made either way and I won't comment on that question myself but again I will leave it up to you to make up your own mind."
You are questioning if IBOs are making false claims. And you are using a video that was taken down, a video on which they were FOLLOWING INSTRUCTIONS FROM THE PERFECTWATER WEBSITE (and I give you proof of that AFTER you say I'm poor little soul with no proof that it ever reallly did say that), a video re-uploaded by a critic, as proof of IBOs making false claims.
Who is making the false claims if the video you are using as proof that false claims are being made by IBOs, is not an IBO???
And the word "may" was inserted for the same reason that birth control pills say 99.9% effective--just in case it doesn't work for that 1 out of 1,000. They got to cover their a$$. Same reason why you've got your handy dandy "This site is protected by the First Amwndment of the U.S. Constitution and blah blah blah." at the bottom of this website.
And about pictures already uploaded. So are you saying, that if you found out who I am, and I've got pictures of my children already posted somewhere in Cyberspace, that gives you the right to post those pictures of my precious children on your website? You ARE kidding right?
And yes, I do believe IBOs will still use the Tip Test, ESPECIALLY since they are still able to see it over and over again because you guys refuse to take the videos off of YouTube. Hello!?
There were PLENTY of IBOs who didn't know anything about the Tip Test, but you sure are educating them, aren't you?
Tip Tests done open meetings? Probably not. Quixtar will probably pass a rule (if they haven't already) that that won't be allowed. And we all know of the spys who go to meetings to keep up all on our toes, don't we?
Fred,
Now that is a funny video...lol. Thanks for the motivation.
U.S. Navy and IBO
Hey Jane,
Before you go slamming what the critics do, take a good long view at Dateline NBC's story on "your" business.
If you don't want something on the internet, don't put it there. Accept responsibility for your own actions, even if your "leaders" don't.
Tip Tests? I think Amway was pretty clear.
Too bad you don't own your own business, then you could decide what you're going to do on your own.
Have a good time selling your water.
Jane,
Thought you were worn out? Did you down an XS to get your energy and decide to return?
I have seen some misguided people come here and write things before but you are up there with Tex now. Isn't that horse starting to smell yet?
If you don't want to believe what I tell you that will have to be your problem LOL. If you need to revise everything and make up your own stories about me and my motivation without even knowing me then again I guess that will be your problem. I think it is quite telling of your integrity though.
I'm not sure what exactly I am covering my ass from (as you put it). Also, we can add yet another thing you have falsely accused me of in that I did not add any disclaimer to this site since I do not own the site. I just write here I have nothing to with the layout or disclaimers. But don't let silly things like the facts stop you from accusing me of things, it hasn't stopped you so far.
While you are searching for where I endorsed Larsen's video as fact please find for me where I stated that IBOs were making false claims and that the video I posted was proof of that. My guess is you are going to have just as much trouble finding that as well.
So are you saying that if I contact perfect water they will endorse a claim that 99.9% of people who drink perfect water will experience more strength, balance, and flexibility. If not that comparison is bunk.
I'm not going to argue about the legality of uploading pictures. Sadly you tried to play historical revisionist and did not tell the whole story. But if you post a picture on the internet on a public page for all the world to see it's pretty stupid to get pissed off when someone uses it. In the context of Insider it's even more stupid considering he posted personal things about someone before that incident and used the "publicly available" argument as his defense in doing so. You can't have it both ways. As for what you were doing my point was simply that you were not telling the whole story. Pointing to your habit of revising what people say or do instead of telling it straight.
LOL, my you are a paranoid one aren't you? Spys at meetings eh? Yes, you are right we have a whole network of them spread throughout the world. They go through a very intense 6 month boot camp to learn how to infiltrate meetings. LOL!!!!
ROFLMBO!!!! Oh this just keeps getting better. So now you are blaming me for tip tests being done? WOW! I guess it is true that IBOs will blame anyone.
So for the record since you for some reason continue to ignore these parts of my comments I am still waiting for your proof that I stole any videos, that I endorsed Larsen's video as fact, that I said the video was to prove false claims were being made about the water, and just for kicks since you said an argument could be made either way I would love to hear the argument for my mother being a whore, which was very classy of you by the way.
My guess is however that you won't address any of that because you simply cannot. You let your emotions get you so much out of control you can't even rationally think.
Truth,
I wonder what you would get if you mixed a bottle of the balanced water, with 2 shots of gin? A well balanced drunk?
Jane,
You said to Truth: Why else do you and all your cronies spend hours online posting?
Well, I am not a cronie, I don't know Drew. I rarely post here. However, you have "tipped" right over the edge. Actually, I think you took a running start and jumped over the edge.
But to answer your question, it is because we (I) believe the overall methods generally used within the business, particularly within the AMO's is bad and not profitable. Those of us who were in and woke up one day and said enough is enough connect to undo what was done through the spin of it all.
Why do Mother's Against Drunk Driving keep complaining about drunk driving?
Because while people are still making BAD decisions, MADD will point it out.
By the way, the "whore" analogy was just rude and I think you owe him an apology.
Ed
Rocket,
That's the best you can do?
The Dateline show? How many years ago was that?
Ah, yeah, that's was REAL journalism at its finest, wasn't it?
And it represented the ENTIRE world, every LOA, of Quixtar, didn't it?
And the main interviewee to say how evil the "business" is was Bo Short, Mr. Character himself.
LOL.
Thought you were worn out? Did you down an XS to get your energy and decide to return?
"Actually, I prefer Rhodiola 110. Wonderful product. The book Rhodiola Revolution is a must-read for those looking for...ooh, don't want to make any false claims. Just read the front cover of the book." :)
I have seen some misguided people come here and write things before but you are up there with Tex now. Isn't that horse starting to smell yet?
"Huh? Personal attacks again? You are SO creative." :)
If you don't want to believe what I tell you that will have to be your problem LOL. If you need to revise everything and make up your own stories about me and my motivation without even knowing me then again I guess that will be your problem. I think it is quite telling of your integrity though.
"Avoiding my point again? Shocking!" :)
I'm not sure what exactly I am covering my ass from (as you put it). Also, we can add yet another thing you have falsely accused me of in that I did not add any disclaimer to this site since I do not own the site. I just write here I have nothing to with the layout or disclaimers. But don't let silly things like the facts stop you from accusing me of things, it hasn't stopped you so far.
"Nitpicking. Yes, that's a viable tactic to distract." :)
While you are searching for where I endorsed Larsen's video as fact please find for me where I stated that IBOs were making false claims and that the video I posted was proof of that. My guess is you are going to have just as much trouble finding that as well.
"Riiight. You're so good at playing the innocent. How cute. Do you have to blatently say it or can you imply it? There you go again, nitpicker." :)
So are you saying that if I contact perfect water they will endorse a claim that 99.9% of people who drink perfect water will experience more strength, balance, and flexibility. If not that comparison is bunk.
"Nitpicking again. Must it be exactly 99.9%? Don't know. You are intentionally becoming quite literal rather than owning up to your ways." :)
I'm not going to argue about the legality of uploading pictures.
"Did I ask you to? Is all you think about is what's legal rather than what's moral? Interesting..." :)
Sadly you tried to play historical revisionist and did not tell the whole story. But if you post a picture on the internet on a public page for all the world to see it's pretty stupid to get pissed off when someone uses it.
"So you ARE saying that if you find out who I am that you have every right to post pictures of my children on your website. Wow. You are creepier than I thought." :)
In the context of Insider it's even more stupid considering he posted personal things about someone before that incident and used the "publicly available" argument as his defense in doing so. You can't have it both ways. As for what you were doing my point was simply that you were not telling the whole story. Pointing to your habit of revising what people say or do instead of telling it straight.
"So Insider posts Steve's name and email address, which Steve himself already posted here at Qblog, and that gives Scott Larsen (someone totally different person, right) the right to post Insider's personal information? Hmmm, don't really see that logic. Oh, maybe it isn't logical. That's right. Forgot who I was talking to for a second there." :)
LOL, my you are a paranoid one aren't you? Spys at meetings eh? Yes, you are right we have a whole network of them spread throughout the world. They go through a very intense 6 month boot camp to learn how to infiltrate meetings. LOL!!!!
"Not you, sweetheart. Don't flatter yourself. I know you guys are only made up of eyes and fingers for blogging. You're not real." :)
ROFLMBO!!!! Oh this just keeps getting better. So now you are blaming me for tip tests being done? WOW! I guess it is true that IBOs will blame anyone.
"Blame? You are sooooo dramatic, aren't you?" :)
So for the record since you for some reason continue to ignore these parts of my comments I am still waiting for your proof that I stole any videos, that I endorsed Larsen's video as fact, that I said the video was to prove false claims were being made about the water, and just for kicks since you said an argument could be made either way I would love to hear the argument for my mother being a whore, which was very classy of you by the way.
"Reread my posts. It's all in what I've already written, and you know it." :)
My guess is however that you won't address any of that because you simply cannot. You let your emotions get you so much out of control you can't even rationally think.
"Oh yes, we women, sooo emotional. I've been quite logical and quite methodical. You Drew, are the one who has decided to turn on the drama in order to avoid the facts and the truth." :)
This concludes our moment of honesty. We now return you to our regular broadcast of ubsurd, meaningless, and time-wasting jibberish.
Eric asks: CK,
How did the company Quixtar nearly destroy your family? If you don't mind me asking.
CK answers: Portions of the story are posted on the forum under member introductions. Husband was told to dump his wife and four kids because I wasn't drinking the kool-aid, was told there was no profit in tools (but you better keep buying them), group-enforced sleep deprivation, literally a week at a time that DH didnt see myslef or our children, credit card advances on the sly to support the tools, ultimately threats, separation and bankruptcy.
I realize that mind control tactics used against my husband were perpetrated by AQMOs, not the corp, but it all happens with the silent blessing of the corporation because these techniques deliver, on a silver platter, a captive marketplace for the corp's product.
Alticor is a corporate pimp, the AQMO/IBO the whore. When the whore does what whores do, this corporate pimp shrugs it's shoulder's and feigns shock.
And keeps processing those orders.
Welcome back Insider! Errrr.... "Jane".
Nice to have you posting again.
"Huh? Personal attacks again?"
Personal attacks? This claim from the person who said there could be an argument made that my mother is a whore? FYI, I am not the one with people making comments that I should apologize.
"Avoiding my point again? Shocking!"
Exactly what point did I avoid, if you can actually point it out I will be more then happy to apologize and address the point at once. So by all means point it out to me.
"So you ARE saying that if you find out who I am that you have every right to post pictures of my children on your website. Wow. You are creepier than I thought."
Well that is a loaded question since having the right to do something and actually doing it are two different things. So let me put it to you this way: If I was to post pictures of myself and my kids on a publicly available website where anyone in the world could see them, It would be pretty stupid of me to start complaining if someone was to download those pictures and put them on another site.
It's like leaving your possessions in the front yard overnight and then complaining because they were stolen. It's not right that someone stole your possessions, but you were pretty stupid for leaving them out there if you didn't want them to get stolen.
"So Insider posts Steve's name and email address, which Steve himself already posted here at Qblog, and that gives Scott Larsen (someone totally different person, right) the right to post Insider's personal information? Hmmm, don't really see that logic. Oh, maybe it isn't logical. That's right. Forgot who I was talking to for a second there"
Once again it doesn't give someone a right, but it makes Insider look friggin stupid for whining about it. Also, you have again decided to play revisionist history and you have not told the whole story. Insider posted much, much more then an e-mail address and a name.
But to use your logic just because his address was publicly available on Qblog does that mean he has the right to post it on his site? You say no one has the right to use a publicly available picture on their site, but then you excuse Insider for doing the very same thing with an e-mail address. Double standard me thinks!
"Reread my posts. It's all in what I've already written, and you know it."
Nope I don't know it, I must be blind or stupid I will let you pick. But since I am so blind and stupid I will post them one by one so you can cut and paste your proof for all to see:
1. Your proof that I stole videos and uploaded them to youtube:
2. My statement where I endorsed Larsen's video as fact:
3. My statement where I said that the video I posted was to prove that IBOs were making false claims about the water:
I will stick with just those three, since I am betting you will only dance around them yet again. But maybe you will surprise me.
I am a fairly new IBO and saw the tip test done on people that had never met any of us before. It's not JUST water (I would do some research before making a statement like that) it's oxygenated using molecular bonding. If the body has more oxygen it can perform better, simple as that. I saw teh people who took the test blown away, as I was. The results are immediate. I also saw a personal trainer who had been working out for 15 years increase his curl weight to one he'd never been able to do before and do an extra rep with that over his old max out weight. I was skeptical at first, but I'm a believer now! Say what you want, it's trying it and seeing it in action that is the proof. And none of us have been 'trained' how to do the test. It's simple, have someone bend over as far as they can toward their toes, take an ounce of the water and most people can bend 4 inches farther. We even had a passerby come into the room wondering what we were doing. She did the test too (didn't know any of us there) and she was amazed to. Once someone drinks it, they can't help being amazed.
Amway is a wonderful corporation. I love being in the business. It's the unethical people that have gotten in in the past that gave any negativity to the reputation. They don't tolerate unethical behaviour and will get rid of anyone not following the rules, but unfortunately there are just people out there who don't follow them, and then people think all of us are like that, or that it's the corporation. Believe me they do all they can to help anyone who wants to succeed.
"I wonder what you would get if you mixed a bottle of the balanced water, with 2 shots of gin? A well balanced drunk?"
LOL, nice!!
Balony Police,
Right. There can only be one person in the entire world of Quixtar/Amway can string together a few logical sentences.
Whatever.
Ed,
You can be critical without being a critic. There is a HUUUUGE difference.
If you are critical you are not one of the cronies. If you are a crtic, someone being critical for the sake of being critical, without any real intention for real change, just a desire to vent on a keyboard and treat people online as characters in their little playworld,then you are one of the cronies to which I refer.
It has to do with the question: "What is your motive in doing what you do?"
And if you think I owe Drew an apology, then perhaps you read my last comment without reading the entire exchange going back and forth between us?
Drew's tone got increasingly nasty and he started to attack the person rather than the ideas I was presenting, quite fast actually.
The VERY quick escalation that occurred illustrates that Drew was not attacking me. That it wasn't personal. If ANYONE shares a different point of view then Amway sucks and everything associated with it--products, IBOs, employees, etc.-- also sucks, then Drew and his cronies use bullying tactics to discredit the person and/or run them off this site.
I thought Drew would be more subtle than he was but, he wasn't. So his motive have been exposed quite rapidly.
That's all she wrote.
Have a great day! :)
AnonIBO,
Good one! LMAO!!!! Really good one!
U.S. Navy and IBO
~Drunken Well Balanced Sailor!!!!
Jane’s not insider. On insider’s planet – the tools work, but not even the hokey ‘tip test’ holds water (magic or otherwise).
"Drew's tone got increasingly nasty and he started to attack the person rather than the ideas I was presenting, quite fast actually"
Really? From the thread I see that I didn't even respond to your first two comments, and the comment that I first responded too was asking me to update my article with information that was untrue. I then responded why I would not update it and then you accuse me of stealing videos and away we go.
"I thought Drew would be more subtle than he was but, he wasn't. So his motive have been exposed quite rapidly."
Translation: He didn't agree with my points so I was forced to make nasty references to his family. Just for the record Jane what is the motive that has been exposed?
Jane,
I've quite enjoyed reading your comments. Definately brought some energy to the old blog here.
Well, back to crony club.
I wonder how Quixtar is spinning the whole "changing our name back to Amway" thing?
I remember when I was in the business and everyone absolutely hated and abhored the Amway name. We never brought it up. I wonder what type of spin their putting on it now to get the IBO's to accept it. Probably promises of new bonuses that will never occur.
The fact they are selling this water for more than a can of XS is sickening. How far can a company go to rip people off. Rediculous. No wonder the business has a IBO turnover rate of almost 100% every 2 years.
Jane, I've read your arguments over the and I too have yet to understand what the point of your argument is. So far, all I've seen from you is avoiding direct questions posed to you by responding with questions and arguing points that are irrelevant to the topic at hand. Your actions remind me of those my upline used to take when they'd encounter a very skeptical person at a board plan - it did nothing to endear the person to the business nor answer the question posed.
From what I've read, Truth was never nasty to you, Jane. He merely asked for you to point out where exactly he made the statements that you claim he's made. Nothing less, nothing more. You, however, have refused to answer his questions and made an insulting analogy with regard to his mother.
Now, moving on to the real issue here.
Quite frankly, there was a major oversight on the part of Perfect Water & Essentials LLC (the company that produces Pefect Water), Alticor, and WWDB. First, Perfect Water posted claims on their website about the potential benefits of their water without proof to back it up. Second, Alticor allowed those claims to stay up for as long as they did before asking for their removal, knowing full well that advance orders of the product were likely placed based on the claims. It doesn't matter that the claims have been removed from the Perfect Water website and the YouTube videos taken down, even before the product is officially on sale - the fact remains that product was sold to customers/distributors based on those claims.
Which leaves us with WWDB - they've embarrassed themselves badly. First, of the 18 members of the IBOAI board of directors, 4 are affiliated with WWDB and one those four is the current IBOAI Chairman. Second, 2 members of Founders Council, which to remind everyone represents the top 7 businesses in North America, are affiliated with WWDB. Third, WWDB is currently working towards becoming an accredited line of affiliation. Given all of that, I find it hard to believe that the WWDB management team was completely in the dark as to the validity of the product claims, yet they still went ahead with their demonstrated "tip tests" and posted them on a public website for all to see. Only after Alticor came to their senses did WWDB do anything to stop the spread of this information - shows me how ethical they really are.
I know things like this can be unbelievable untill you see it yourseld of try it. Well i have been to a few meeting in Palmdale with Quixstar. This water really works. Dont ask me how but it does. Ive been tested on it myself with the tip test. Ive seen them test it on people with all kinds of problems which gave them a little more strenght with just a little ounce full.. like i said i know its hard to believe but its true and well worth the money. It has to be preordered only certain people can get to it at this time.
If this perfect water helped the athletic trainer of 15 years increase his physical strength, think it might help me reach those high notes I used to be able to sing when I was younger? Maybe it would increase the flexibility of my vocal chords.
Just strolling through and I saw I came up in the conversation, as usual with some critics making stuff up about me.
1. I did not post Steve/JoeCool's name. I know it and have known it for a long time, I've never posted it.
2. His email address was on every post (thousands) on QuixtarBlog. It was public, and public *in the context of this business*.
3. I made no mention of all his other adventures and inclinations until after HE raised the topic on HIS Quixtar blog, AND LIED ABOUT IT.
Larsen posted my photo, my address (albeit an old one used for business), telephone number, business dealings etc etc. I've much of that information about Larsen too. Never posted it.
Remember - Steve AKA JoeCool raised the issue on his site *and lied about it*. I had not posted any of the information I'd been given until after that. If he didn't want the topic talked about, he shouldn't have raised it.
As for the perfect water, Exwwdbibo comments are right on the money. Amway and WWDB have severly screwed up on this one.
For you IBOs (and I am one) - do what I did - do the tip test, the stretch tests etc with some people, but use normal water and tell them it's perfect water.
I did this with a number of folk and got the exact same results as the "perfect water". It's called warming up, stretching, and that most powerful of drugs, placebo.
I've been ill for some weeks so haven't really had the energy to post about it on my site, but I will sometime soon. I'm in 100% agreement with Larsen and Truth on this one.
Just to make it clear, I never said the water increased the trainer's strength, merely his endurance. If you have more oxygen in your blood and you don't have to wait for it to be circulated, of course you will be able to do more reps/weight. It's simple physiology.
"So Insider posts Steve's name and email address, which Steve himself already posted here at Qblog, and that gives Scott Larsen (someone totally different person, right) the right to post Insider's personal information? Hmmm, don't really see that logic. Oh, maybe it isn't logical. That's right. Forgot who I was talking to for a second there"
Joe says: Insider is a slime. A lot of what he posted abut me was not publicly available. He used google analytics to trace my web actvity after I was on his site.
I also have new proof that he is a troublemaker which I may or may not post on my blog soon.
JRandall,
PLEASE get your facts straight. A can of XS (8oz.) goes for approx. $2.20 at IBO cost (U.S. dollars). Same situation, a 16 oz. bottle of Perfect Empowered Water goes for $1.70.
Hardly comparable.
Also, XS is an Energy drink loaded with B vitamins and adaptogenic herbs. The price compares with an 8oz. can of Red Bull, loaded with 1/8 cup of sugar & preservatives. Yum!
It's fine if you don't like the products or the business....just get your facts straight before posting and misleading people.
Thanks.
Buy the water for yourself and draw your own conclusion, I have had an opportunity to try the water and do the tests for myself, and the videos are great, but what is better then watching the videos is doing and seeing what the videos are demonstrating. That is why you are a critic, because you are not understanding what is going on.
Anyone want to know how powerful oxygen is to the body?
I recently met a trainer for the Green Bay Packers, and we were talking about this "perfect water" that Amway is coming out with. And as we were discussing the idea of Molecular Bonded Oxygen, he told me how powerful this really is. He says when the Packers are done with a game on Sunday, a majority of the players can't function for the next few days, being sore and what not. As a trainer, what he does for his players is he makes them sit in a "ice bath", a bathtub full of ice. What this does is causes your body to think you are going into HYPOTHERMIA, which tells all the blood in your body to leave your extremities and head for the center of your body to keep your core of your body functioning. While your blood is at the center of your body it becomes really rich with oxygen. The trainer then told me after the ice bath we immediately place the player into a "hot bath". What the hot bath does is obviously causes your body to warm up, but here is the punch line, it causes all the rich oxygenated blood to rush back to your extremities, giving your body a huge rush of oxygen. What does rich oxygen do for the body, it revitalizes the body quicker.
The water is rich with Molecular Bonded Oxygen. Similar concept, that is why the results are phenomenal.
Second thing, talk to a fighter pilot in the Air Force. And ask them why they have air masks? This is what I have been told when asking a friend in the Air Force. He says the mask are there in case you get light headed from being up in the altitudes. He said those masks are not constantly feeding into the masks. There is a button that you push and the mask shoots a huge amount of oxygen into your mask. The oxygen acts just like the reason you yawn. To supply a large amount of air to the brain. The first thing he said goes when flying around is your vision, and a shot of oxygen helps revitalize you quicker!
I listen to the WWDB diamonds on the videos. David Shores spoke of being showing the in Hawaii. It would be interesting to know if they did the Tip Test at Diamond club.....a company event.
So, what happens in a few months when the fad and hoopla of super water dies down and Amway comes out with their next "greatest product ever"?
Also, fighter pilots' greatest cause of blacking out is g-forces, hence why they wear pressure suits that inflate to push blood to the head when they are in high-g manuevers, plus they are trained in controlled breathing and muscle contraction in dealing with high-g's.
Having the oxygen supply (and getting that burst) definately helps in recovering from the manuevers. But, if a pilot is getting light headed just from flying at high altitude in a pressurized aircraft, they won't be a fighter pilot long (unless the Air Force has gone back to open-cockpit fighters)
My sister is asthmatic - when she uses her rescue inhaler, the Albuterol go to her lungs. She doesn't drink Albuterol to get relief. And, the relief isn't instant, it takes a few seconds for the medicine to start working.
The cold/hot baths and the pilot getting a "hit" of pure oxygen examples really don't corralate to drinking super water.
So, just how does drinking "oxygen" give one instant results??
Dear Moderator,
I sent you two posts. They were basically the same thing twice. You have posted other peoples stuff and not mine. If you don't want to post my comments that is fine and I'll go somewhere else to blog. Just let me know what the deal is and if you don't want me posting here, I won't come back.
IBO Forever
I'm serious I simply don't understand how a reasonable individual can believe that 1 ounce of water can improve ANYTHING in a matter of seconds. For something to have that effect, in that amount of time, it would have to be inhaled, or given intravenously.
Also more Oxygen in my water, not sure about you but I have lungs not gills.
Maybe I'll try some for the fish tank.
"I sent you two posts. They were basically the same thing twice. You have posted other peoples stuff and not mine. If you don't want to post my comments that is fine and I'll go somewhere else to blog. Just let me know what the deal is and if you don't want me posting here, I won't come back."
Well I don't remember seeing any comments from your name, but there are very few reasons a comment would not get published. Just about every single comment gets published on this site, there is quite a bit of spam I have to sift through, but I did not find any comments of yours in the junk folder. You are of course free to post them again, and if there was indeed something wrong with them I will let you know.
I heard perfect water makes you a stallion in the sack too?
Thanks and my apologies if I messed this up. I will try again and see if I can get it right.
I don't think anyone disputes the benefits of more oxygen. The issues is whether "drinking" an ounce of water with oxygen has any tangible benefits.
I am inclined to believe that perfect water works as well as the 6-4-2 plan.
Like I posted earlier, mammals have lungs, not gills. Having more oxygen in water does nothing to help the body get oxygen, since all oxygen comes in by breathing. If you are getting your oxygen by drinking, you are in trouble, since water in the lungs is the number one cause of drowning!
Hey "The Real Truth",
I think before you start chastising someone for supplying misleading information, you should check YOUR facts. Your numbers didn't add up, so I went to the Q* website to do a little investigating.
For an apples-to-apples comparison, I used IBO cost and suggested retail without factoring in tax and CRV, as they can vary from location to location. I also didn't include shipping as that can vary on the size of the order as well.
Here's what I found:
XS Energy Drink has an IBO cost of $20.40 and suggested retail of $23.88 for a case of 12 cans. This gives us a per can cost of $1.70 at IBO cost and $1.99 at suggested retail.
Perfect Water has an IBO cost of $40.80 and suggested retail of $47.76 for a case of 24 bottles. This gives us a per can cost of $1.70 at IBO cost and $1.99 at suggested retail.
It's amazing what one discovers the truth to be when they actually do their research. THEY ACTUALLY COST THE SAME!
Once you factor in all the other costs (tax, shipping, and CRV), that $1.70 can of XS or bottle of Perfect Water creeps pretty close to $2.00 - at IBO cost. That means your customer is paying well over $2.00 if you sell to make a profit and use the suggested retail cost.
Moral of the story - first, do some research before blasting someone else, because you just lost some credibility for also posting inaccurate information. Second, $2.00+ for a bottle of purified water is overpriced, regardless of the claimed benefits.
Yes, the WWDB diamonds did get the information at diamond club -before- the perfect water site was up. I heard all the kates - miracle headache cures, tip test nonsense, you're sponsoring rate will be triple blah, blah, blah. Funny not one kate from Greg Duncan whose H2OUltra (formerly H206 clustered water) got passed over by Q* in favor of the perfect water. I guess they didn't want him to have too much power since he owns XS too. Now all the IBOs are fired up again and hey don't forget about Spring Leadership - bring a ton of people. These diamonds are something - please tell me they don't know they are ripping people off with this water - they are obviously desperate. They'll hold onto their fortunes anyway they can. Anyone with half a brain KNOWS that 1 oz of water cannot have these kinds of effects. IBOs are zombies and will do whatever the upline says to do. I've been there...thank God I woke up.
JL,
Do you or anybody else still have the Kate messages? I would like copies.
Scott
Has anyone heard of "Smart Water"?
I saw it at a local grocery store in my neighborhood and it's similar to Perfect water, but it only costs $1.25 for a 24 ounce bottle.
Oh, and the store is not claiming it will cure cancer, make you more flexible and what not.
You know why IBOs are more flexible after a sip? It's because they are bending over a second time. Try it and see for yourself.
Exwwdbibo,
I really did try to sound professional when writing to JRandall (not you) so I don't appreciate the 'tone' you took with me. Try to be professional.
Please forgive me, the $2.20+ price was for the RETAIL price (because I sell LOTS of XS at RETAIL). NOT wholesale cost. Also, I do factor in shipping & tax because I run a business and it would be illegal & cost prohibitive of me if I did not.
Bottome line? The Perfect Empowered Water is LESS EXPENSIVE than the XS even at wholesale (XS is approx. $1.86 per can at wholesale). That was the point I was making to JRandall.
Also, you are flat out wrong about the price of Perfect Empowered Water being too high. The proof is in the pudding. There are hundreds of thousands of cases on order ready to ship next week.
By the way critics, you are calling all of the prospect & customers gullible idiots, not just the IBO's. I think you'd better watch it. I think you will feel quite the fool when you actually try the stuff yourself. Only an ignorant person critiques something he/she hasn't yet tried themselves.
Joecool, you cannot compare Smartwater with Perfect Empowered Water in that the filtration, ionization, oxygenation processes are completely different. Therefore, the results will be completely different. By the way, a 16oz. bottle is the industry standard. Not 24oz. And where I live....it's about $1.60 a bottle.
Dmm, that whole "gill" theory is wearing thin and is not a very intelligent & compelling argument. It doesn't make you look too good.
Doug, I thought you did a great job explaining the power of oxygen in the bloodstream via the green bay packers coach/trainer.
Dmm, did you catch that they got that extra oxygen internally and NOT by breathing it in???
Perfect water costs more than gas!
Joecool said: "Perfect water costs more than gas!"
So does milk. And a dozen or so other beverages I can think of off the top of my head.
What's your point?
Ok, I have been "tip tested" and there was a difference after I drank the "magic", then before i did. Now, it may have been a plausebo (I think that is how it is spelled) I think the best thing to do would be to ask someone to do it that is not affiliated with the business (i.e. girlfriend, mom, dad, random person on the street, j/k) I am not an IBO, but I used to be, so I am objective about stuff in the business now. Just my opinion
Exwwdbibo,
1) I believe that the *suggested* retail price for a 12-pack of XS is $23.99 (not $23.88).
And "suggested" is just that. And IBO can charge whatever they want. When asked, "How much does it cost?"
One philosphy is the answer, "Whatever they'll pay."
2) Also you mention "shipping" and "customers" in the same post.
Since you are an EX-IBO, maybe you are unaware for free shipping for customers on orders of $75 or more. Given that reality, it might not seem accurate/fair/logical to take on a nebulous shipping fee and show an increase in price of the cost of the product.
Let alone the fact that you are not including the convenience of not having to transport a 50-pound box from the store.
3) I believe Penta sells for $1.99 for 16.9 ounces where I live. Regardless of the string of other brands that are the same, a little less, a little more, than Perfect Water, to say something is "overpriced" is in the eye of the beholder.
What I consider a ridiculous amount of money to spend on something, could seem like a bargain to someone else.
So to make such statements are opinoins and not facts.
The Real Truth said: By the way critics, you are calling all of the prospect & customers gullible idiots, not just the IBO's.
Joe says: I thought we were saying that IBOs making up claims not supported by the corporation were
being misleading.
The Real Truth,
I was quite professional, actually. Perhaps I wasn't as friendly as you think I should be, but well, I'm a blunt kind of guy.
The reason I didn't include tax and shipping into my calculations is simple - not everybody pays those.
Starting with sales tax, when buying wholesale, you don't pay tax because you are not the end user. The tax you are paying up front is on the retail price and Quixtar handles sales tax on your behalf. Also, there are states where there is no sales tax - Oregon and Delaware being two of them - so in some cases, there is no tax and as such, cannot be included for an apples-to-apples price comparison.
With regards to shipping, my reasons for not including it are the same as not including sales tax in my calculation - not everybody pays it. As I'm sure you're aware, customers can place an order of $75 or more and get free shipping. Plus, I'm pretty sure I read that new IBOs get the same deal for a short time. Further, unless something drastically has changed since I was active, orders of over $750 had free shipping. Thus, including shipping in a cost comparison doesn't make sense either.
That leaves you with CRV, which in states that charge it, is the same for a 12oz. can or a 24 oz. bottle, but since it varies from state to state, it skews cost comparisons based on where you're located.
Thus, my cost analysis is correct, $1.70 at IBO cost and $1.99 at suggested retail for both items. Perhaps in the state you live in XS costs more, but that's based on sales tax, nothing more, and I've already shown why it cannot be included for comparison purposes.
There is no proof otherwise that the Perfect Water is not overpriced. The only thing that could possibly do that is to see how many of the cases on advanced ordered are going to customers instead of IBOs. Since IBOs generally buy from Amway first, regardless of price, and since Amway doesn't provide data on customer sales data, your argument doesn't hold much water - no pun intended.
The Real Truth:
I do not want to get into an arguments with you, but I beg of you please step back and think about what you just said. "...that they got that extra oxygen internally and NOT by breathing it in???"
Please think about where the oxygen came from in the first place - we breathe oxygen. It doesn't get into our body by other means - it is the way we were created. I really don't want to fight with you I just want you to think about what you're saying for yourself.
Please think about a few more things - how much Perfect water do you have on advanced order? Can you really afford it or have you put it on a credit card? Did your upline tell you to order a lot? How much profit have you claimed on your income taxes over the last few years? I'm not a critic - I'm a ruby in the biz and am just realizing how much money and time I've put into this biz over the last 5 years. My diamond is way richer and I'm in debt and missed a lot of time with my family and kids (and no one in my biz but me has made a profit). These sites exist because of the hundreds of thousands and maybe more people who have been burned by this business and used to think exactly like you do now. It is scary to me actually. Please don't get mad at me - I really understand your point of view and I just want to help you. Unfortunately your upline says they do, but they can only see their dream of diamond, not yours. Dreams are great, but selling false dreams should be criminal.
Good luck with everything and do me a favor. Come back here in a few years and post to someone else just like you and wish you could have seen the real truth.
JJ,
Thank you so much for including your insight. Man, if only more IBOs were willing to describe their REAL experiences in this business, we could actually end up helping out a lot of people. One of the biggest hesitations that people had in the business, this was back in 2003 when I had joined, was that they were too afraid to speak or write about their frustrations and things that really didn't add up to all of the hype that was shown to them. I agree with others in saying that they ought to do a double-blind study with enough test subjects to determine a net benefit of using Perfect Water.
jj,
Please go read what Doug wrote about what the coach/trainer told him about the oxygen flow in the body.
I appreciate your 'tone'. You do sound sincere. I however, I cannot begin to fathom why in the world you are not profitable.
Let's put it this way: I just signed up my cousin. I told him he can start talking about the products that he's personally tried (given to him by us) and give his testimony. He can then send his prospects (he's now got six & he's been signed up for two weeks) to the Quixtar website (free). They can place an order right from there and get the products shipped to their house. They use his IBO# so he gets the credit.
No inventory. No shipping costs.
He paid $59.00 for the priveledge of buying wholesale & being able to sell products to others. When his prospects purchase the products, they purchase at retail (unless he wants to give them a discount). HE GETS THE PROFIT. Get it???
He paid $59.00. For the YEAR. Not the week, not the month...for the entire YEAR! He can start selling products and making a PROFIT IMMEDIATELY!
My brother too, signed up at only $59.00. I left him some samples. He purchased a Microsoft Software product at $41.00 CHEAPER than he found elsewhere (and trust me, this guy digs and claws for deals & sales). He then sold some products to two customers, making retail profit right out of the gate!
Once our people are PROFITABLE, with a good start on a customer base, we then get them going with their own website (49.95 per month), online training (FREE), sharing the business model (FREE). Did you know they can also attend their first major business conference FREE as well??? I don't think you were aware of that.
So please jj, try to justify how one cannot be profitable from this business within their first week. Also, we're looking forward to getting a cut of the motivational/training business when we contribute to it some day!
Regarding the Perfect Water, we ordered 40 cases. We've already sold 20 cases to CUSTOMERS!!!!!!!!! Although it was purchased under our IBO number. So, the whole "customer order" vs. "IBO order" tracking will be waaaaay skewed and not a good tracking method.
jj, no one TELLS us what to do. They make recommendations based on our goals.
You know what we tell people who make excuses like "I can't afford it" (then they go and purchase a pool from Walmart for $85). You afford what you want to afford. That applies to 95% of us here in America. Period. If you want a change, YOU need to make some changes. Maybe you need to change what you eat or drink or change where you live or what you drive. Maybe you need to change what you do in your "spare" time. We did. We've changed LOTS and we've profited greatly from it. We're also stronger in our faith & have a better marriage (when we were both working & our first kid was in childcare, we were separated for a short time but we changed that by making changes and humbling ourselves - most people aren't willing to do that)
By the way, we make approximately $800-1000 per month (we're growing like crazy so next month will be around $1200). Our average monthly expenditure is $150-200. That includes meetings, Kate, CD's, babysitters, website. Our goal is Platinum (or Ruby) by the end of this calendar year.
So, how does the monthly expenditure change when you're Ruby??? How does the profit margin change?
I really want to know! Please share specific details that apply across the board.
Thank you jj.
"Also, you are flat out wrong about the price of Perfect Empowered Water being too high. The proof is in the pudding. There are hundreds of thousands of cases on order ready to ship next week."
The "proof" would lie in knowing what percentage of those sales are to customers with no profit motive.
Which historically would be less than 5%.
Jane,
I'll respond to each of your points in the order you present them.
1) Suggested retail for XS is $23.88 - I even double-checked Quixtar before posting my comments.
I get that it's suggested retail and not set in stone. However, an IBO would have a hard time trying to sell the product for more than suggested retail when anybody with a computer can browse the Quixtar site and find out that information. Also, given the low margin on the products to begin with, an IBO can't afford to discount much either if they want to make any money.
2) I know all about the free-shipping program. In fact, I was still active in the business when WWDB did the test program for free shipping. But your point is moot for two reasons: first, I stated in my original post I stated that I wasn't including shipping costs in my comparison as shpping is a variable and including it will not provide an apples-to-apples comparison; second, a customer can buy from Quixtar and not meet the $75 minimum. Thus, it is still possible for a customer to pay shipping. As for IBOs, they pay shipping unless they place an order of $750 or more. So, if an IBO sells to a customer from their own inventory, chances are those shipping charges are getting passed along to the customer as well.
Your point about convenience is also moot, since most people go to the grocery store or Costco for other things as well. Personally, I find it more convenient to buy something and receive it immediately rather than wait for a delivery. And Quixtar may deliver to your front door via UPS, but you still have to move that "50 pound box" from the door to wherever you store it, same as you would when buying elsewhere.
3) I don't understand the point you're trying to make, because it's pretty obvious that my comment on the price of the water is an opinion and didn't think I needed to state as much. That opinion is based on what I see the water to be: purified water, nothing more, nothing less. Given that Amway and Perfect Water have yet to prove that every person who drinks Perfect Water will have the same results, I find it to be overpriced purified water. Thus, I can get the same benefits from any other water and pay less for it.
jj,
My brother-in-law told me something interesting the other day. He said he was prospected by someone who used to be a Ruby in "the biz". Don't know what line of sponsorship. Anyway, he said that he made over $100K (as presented in the business overview) but that it wasn't "big" money. He said he put alot of miles on but didn't have much luck. This former Ruby is now involved with some 'scam' called Team National. We believe it's a scam because when my BIL (brother in law) asked what it was, how they got paid, how much it was, what kinds of products/services, etc. The guy could not give a straight answer. He said it was over $2100 to "get in". All you had to do was get two people to write a check for $2100 and then you were "in" and got the ability to make a commission off of other memberships below the new people. My BIL asked what the website was so we could see what the products & services were & check out the "wholesale" pricing as well.
Well, the guy totally flaked and said it's not really about the products, it's about memberships. You get paid on memberships. My BIL said "isn't that a bit like the 1970's Ponzi schemes that the FTC overruled & claimed illegal?". They guy was speechless.
Bottom line, he was involved in a scam. Why? Because he was all about trying to make big bucks in the short term. It's people like this (so called former high-level IBO's) that are out there giving this business opportunity a bad name. He was quite ignorant about the current business model.
What we tell people is that intelligent people do thorough research before making a final decision. They don't make a decision based upon a third party's experience. Only ignorant people do that. We have nothing to hide. We are strong Christians involved in our community, our church, volunteering, donating and we are PROUD to be a part of this wonderful business opportunity and a part of the Worldwide Dreambuilders Organization.
Actually JJ, do not go and read what Doug wrote about the coach and pilot etc etc. What The Real Truth is missing here is that Doug and the commenter Sean are in fact the same person.
Apparently whoever Doug and Sean are really they felt that the thread needed more positive comments about the water. Unfortunately since I know they were posted by the same person I would say integrity is out the window. Thus I seriously doubt he ever talked to any coach about water. Let alone a coach from the Green Bay Packers.
Also, I would like to point out that the story about the pilot references breathing in air, not drinking it.
The Real Truth,
I told you I didn't want to get into one of these drawn out arguments with you. I just wanted to share my experience. If you build this business to a large level, the overhead and time is outrageous. Driving thousands of miles, keeping people motivated, constant functions, stp every night. People quit faster than we could sponsor even at the pace we've worked. We made tons of money but had tons of expenses. My message was simply a warning - one you can't understand today. Hopefully, it will sit with you and when the time comes you'll have an "aha" moment. Right now, I know exactly where you are mentally and there's no way I'm going to try to argue or justify anything with you. I wish you the best. 20 cases of water is like $1000 so be careful going into debt. Don't do it, especially in this economy. Glad you are profitable so far. This is my last post to you - after 5 years let me know how it went. How long have you been building this anyway?
jj
The Real Truth,
I read your response to JJ regarding profitability. I must say that if you're able to be as profitable as you say you are, then more power to you. However, I'd like to get further clarification on your expenses, as what you stated seems to be quite understated.
You stated that your average monthly expenses are roughly $150-200 per month, saying it included Premiere Membership, Kate, babysitting, and functions. However, that number doesn't seem to include mileage, which adds up quickly when you're activly showing the plan. Also, perhaps you have a relative that watches your children for free when you and your spouse are off showing the plan, but if you're CORE and showing the plan twice a week, that adds up quickly, especially if you're going to a house plan.
Given all that, I'm estimating your true monthly expenses are closer to $600 a month, including everything. If you want to go a step further and amortize expenses for the major functions and Atristry/Nutrilite clinics across each month of the year, you're closer to $750. My numbers are based on 500 miles of driving, a babysitter for 30 hours a month, assuming you're off showing the plan twice a week for 3 hours each, plus 4 hours twice a month for when the Diamond is in town. For CD's I'm assuming WWDB still does alternates between a one CD standing order and two CD standing order each week at $2.50 for each CD.
Is the $800 to $1000 in income a month before or after expenses? If it's after expenses, good for you. If it's before, your true income is closer to $200-$400 per month, based on my calculations. Better than a kick to the head, but that's a lot of work you're putting in for little return.
Exwwdbibo,
You are right. The new suggested retail price of a 12-pack of XS is $23.88.
Thank you for bringing this to my attention. The price has changed in the last few days, after six years of not changing.
jj,
you didn't answer my question about profitability. if you're going to "insinuate" a negative about this business and "claim credibility" by saying you were a former Ruby (which I have no reason to believe you were) then please back it up with SPECIFICS. also, answer my question. Otherwise, I can only believe you are a critic posing as a former IBO who wants to take the hope & dreams from others. Because honestly, if not this, then what? A job? At minimum wage? Or a job where I have absolutely no control and I have to have my kids in daycare before or after school just so I can bring in a few measly extra dollars a month? Please, if you really want to help me then share DETAILS.
exwwdbibo,
wow. who are you to make assumptions about MY PERSONAL income & expenses??? you must be an extremely arrogant son of a b to quadruple my expenses, given the information I've offered up to JJ, NOT YOU!
My expenses are just exactly what I said.
You see exwwdbibo, YOU are a BIG part of why MY business has a bad rep with some people. YOU are out there misleading others. Are you stuck in the 70's and 80's??? Pay attention because I'm going to bring you up to speed on a few things, ok?
1. You do not have to stock inventory.
2. There is no minimum purchase.
3. CORE is ONE plan a week, minimum.
4. You can do a plan over the phone and internet simultaneously. You can show the opportunity while sitting in the lounge at the gym after a workout. You can do it over coffee. Over lunch. Over dinner. Over Sunday brunch. Quite often, we have the people bring their kids to our house so they don't have to have the expense of a sitter either. My spouse will show the plan and I'll get them trained in and setup on ditto & Premier Membership. Sometimes, it's vice versa. We work as a team.
5. As far as functions & conferences, we have regionals ONE DAY (no longer 1 1/2 days) every six weeks. Great training, by the way. We have "opens" about every other week and usually just one of us goes. For the larger weekend conferences (only 3 of them), we make mini-vacations out of them. It's a write-off too! I have had our neice help & my sister help, but we always pay them something & get them a gift incentive album to thank them.
exwwdbibo, there are many smart ways to work this business. If I were to go to a job, I'd have to get a sitter AND I'd have to drive the miles AND I'd have to spend more on business attire and probably dry cleaning, and eating out, etc. etc. etc. And unlike this business, if I stopped showing up, I'd stop getting paid. Plus, someone else tells me when I can or cannot work and someone else determines how much I can make per hour.
Unfortunately, there were many many idiotic former IBO's who did not work this business with common sense...just as you indicated in YOUR version of expenses. And now they're out there spreading false rumors & lies about this business. It's an absolute shame. That's what it is. A shame. You need to stop it, if you're part of the problem.
So, Real Truth, what was the line 12 entry on your 2007 1040? How many hours did you put in to earn it, and what is your profit margin?
Speaking of your 1040, you wrote: "For the larger weekend conferences (only 3 of them), we make mini-vacations out of them. It's a write-off too!"
I doubt this would pass audit. Read the US tax Court cases. Very few of these "write-offs" are allowed on judicial review.
The Real Truth:
But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law.
I'll pray for you...
jj
The Real Truth...
This is a public forum that anybody can read and respond to. If you don't want people to make comments, ask follow up questions, or have an opinion on what you've posted, then either don't post here or talk to whomever you're addressing privately.
Let's handle each of your points in the order you presented them:
Arrogant? Nope. Confident? Definitely. Either way, you can call me what you wish, I could care less what you think of me. Calling my mother a bitch, however, is rude, I don't care how you try to spin that. I know that's definitely not part of the training provided to you by Ron Puryear, Brad Duncan, and company.
I'm a big part of why the business has a bad rep with some people? Hardly. IBOs have done plenty in the last 50 years to give the business a bad rep, starting with their prospecting methods and not telling people what company is behind the opportunity until you're well into the plan. There's also the IBOs that have had less than stellar business building practices, such as TEAM. There's also the embellishments made by Diamonds on a regular basis - my favorite being Brad Duncan telling a packed hotel conference room in October 2005 in San Jose, CA that Bill Gates may have more money than him, but Mr. Gates could never touch Duncan's lifestyle. But, I digress...
No need to bring me up to speed on things because:
1) I know you don't have to stock inventory. After all, I used to be an IBO and I followed the rules. Your point is irrelevant to the topic at hand as I never even brought up inventory.
2) There is no minimum purchase. Again, irrelevant, as I never said you had to make a purchase. I think you're trying to create a distraction by mentioning stuff off topic.
3) CORE is one plan a week? You mean they finally stopped emphasizing showing the plan? Because what I was taught, by pretty much every Diamond, was you should show the plan twice a week.
4) I know all about my.biz and being able to do a web tour and/or STP on the web. There's still house plans, opens, product pickup, etc. that you need to drive to as part of the business, and the mileage on your car during that time is an expense. I'm also sure you're trying to get all of your new people in front of your upline - gotta drive to do that as well.
5) Again, I know all about one day regionals - they started those when I was still active as well. So what? You still need a babysitter for 9 hours as the kids can't come to regionals. And I'll agree to disagree with you on the training.
As far as your mini-vacation... write-off is another word for a business expense, which is deducted from your revenue (retail profit and performance bonus). So if you take your family with you to a major function, you then need a babysitter for 2 full days, not including Sunday Service. Add in hotel for a minimum of 2 nights (except at Family Reunion), rental car (if you need one), and airfare (again, if you need it), and that mini vacation gets expensive quick. Paying your niece or sister, regardless of the form, is also a business expense.
I agree there's a smart way to build the business - building a business based on retailing products with a sound marketing plan and having the majority of your total PV coming from that would be the smartest. Two problems there: first, most products are priced on the high side. I've used the products too and they aren't that much better than what I can buy at Target to justify the price difference; second being the Quixtar rules against being able to advertise anywhere you want. It is your business, isn't it? Quixtar is your supplier, correct? Why then do they have all the control over how you operate your business? Meanwhile, you still need the babysitter and you still need to drive miles to work your business. Business attire? I don't know where you work, but I've never had to wear a suit to work. I was, however, strongly advised that anything less than a suit at all business functions, excepting product pickup and Christmas in October, was not appropriate. Eating out? Why would having a regular job mean having to eat out more? I see lots of people where I work bringing lunch from home.
If you were to stop building your business tomorrow, unless you have some motivated downline, I'm doubtful that your recurring income would continue for very long. I watched as my upline Silver had one frontline IBO quit and watched the related 1500 PV vaporize overnight, and that was when he was working the business 5 nights a week. If my upline had sat back and chosen not to keep working, do you think he would still have qualified Platinum a few months later? Doubtful. Do you think all of his 9 legs would've continued building their businesses if he wasn't working his business regularly? Again, doubtful.
As far as pay goes... nobody tells you when you can or cannot work? Does that mean you can choose when your product pickup is scheduled? Does that mean you can go to product pickup at your upline's house when you choose? Do you get a choice of when the functions are? The regionals? The SLMs? That's all work related to your business, and you don't have a choice on the timing of any of those, just like a job. And unless you're running Platinum volume based solely on retail sales, your downline also determines your income, as they could all sit there and do nothing. As for your income? Based on $800 to $1000 in profit a month as you previously stated, and the minimum 10 hours a week of working your business as a part of being CORE, that's $20-$25 dollars an hour. But wait, because you're married, it's really $10-$12.50 per hour for each of you.
There are plenty of former IBOs who are "negative" or who didn't build the business correctly, and spread partial truths or make misleading statements. There's also former IBOs that broke the rules and created a ton of negative before they were terminated by Quixtar. There's also Quixtar/Amway allowing the motivational organizations to run the show in the name of profit and turning a blind eye to the subsequent effects on the 100 PV IBO. You can save your "everybody that's left the business is negative" attitude. Everyone here knows that line; it's overused and the typical fired-up IBO response. Some of us were in the business, decided not to pursue it, and are willing to share our experiences in forums like this one. It’s not sad; we're entitled to our opinions, just as you are.
Finally, since it's tax time, I urge you to look at your tax return and see what your actual expenses were for the year - all those write-offs you talked about. If you're getting a tax refund, that's likely because you lost money in the business. That's not an opinion, that's a fact, because profitable businesses pay taxes after all their other expenses.
Real Truth,
Man...good come back and a outstanding one at that. It is people like you who will keep this business in good standards. I can learn alot from you and others on here good and bad. Keep up the good WORK! (yep..I said work) and hope to meet you on the highways and byways one day.
Proud U.S. Navy and IBO
The real truth, the Green Bay Packer's trainer used water as a cooling/heating agent, and did not have his players drink the water they were bathing in. I assure you the oxygen that each player had in his body came in through respiration, aka breathing. Once again, if you have water in your lungs, you are in trouble, because that's how you drown.
That's not to say drinking water isn't important. I know this to be especially true living in a desert for nearly 2 decades. De-hydration is something that can be very serious, and I've suffered from heat exaustion before. Not pleasant. And I'm sure the perfect water would hydrate me very well...as long as I drink it and not breathe it!
The reality is, scientists have been tinkering with sports drinks and waters for 50 years starting with Dr. Cade at the University of Florida and his "Gator Aid," which later became Gatorade. And the drinks have nothing to do with oxygenization in the blood, and if you asked any biologists about drinking your oxygen supply, they will ask you if you are a fish. Drinking liquids is all about hydration and replenishing nutrients. Sorry, TRT, but if you believe you can get oxygen in the blood through drinking, I am calling you gullible.
Exwwdbibo,
You mention product pickup many times in your post to The Real Truth.
Are you aware that not all wwdb ibos do product pickup? In fact most of them don't?
exwwdbibo,
I just got done writing a long response but it got deleted somehow...:-(
So, I'll respond again but I'll make it shorter & sweeter...:-)
First of all, CORE is CORE, regardless of what your upline "recommended" that you do. Common sense and accountability has to come into play at some point.
Also, there is no more 'product pickup'. Again, a thing of the past. We are an internet based business so we promote Ditto Deliver & weekly supplemental (online) orders, as needed. So, there goes the gas & mileage for weekly pickup!
Regarding trips, we have incurred airfare expenses only ONE time in four years. So, that does not apply. We make family trips around the conferences. That way, we have more time with our kid's and create wonderful memories. So, the airfare & rental expenses does not apply...for us.
Mileage however, does apply. Can't argue with you there. We do drive to our business meetings. And opens. And conferences. We also drive to the grocery store. And sometimes Walmart. and sporting events. And church. And family gatherings. etc. etc. etc.
What's your point?
Regarding where I worked....I worked in corporate america. Not sure where you work. I'm sure it's a perfectly lovely place & you're a model employee. However, MY reality was professional attire (suits 4 days out of 5 and some weeks 5 days, depending on customer meetings or meetings with upper level management). We also ate out. Primarily for lunch. Sometimes breakfast too. Depending on how early the day got started. That was MY norm. Just because it's not your norm does not make it wrong or false.
I never said all former IBO's are negative. Please don't put words into my mouth. Also, where do you (and Joecool, by the way) get the idea that a 100PV IBO is suffering or getting screwed? Huh??? When we were 100PV, we were buying the same things we bought at the mass-market stores (Target, Walmart, grocery store). So, I was getting good products in return for my money. Same as before. Only this time, I was getting it for same or less money AND getting a rebate check (at that level, I call it a rebate check). So, a 100PV IBO, unless they're idiots, should be getting good products that they need, in return for their money. Sounds perfectly fair to me.
exwwdbibo, thanks for taking the intitiative to figure out what i'm making per hour. Gosh golly gee, I'm perfectly happy to be making between $10 & 12 per hour (on the low end) as a stay at home mom who works when SHE wants to work and with whom she wants to work!!! Sounds a TON better than a regular job probably making LESS than that and NOT having the flexibility of time or convenience! Wow. Thanks for helping my cause & pointing that out exwwdbibo! By the way, it actually is more money (probably twice that amount) because I average about FIVE hours per week...not ten!
jj,
Your response just convinced me that you are not who you claimed you were. If you truly cared about IBO's today and want to help (like you claimed), then you would respond to what I wrote and give me DETAILS so I know exactly what you're talking about. PLEASE. If I am unknowingly part of a 'scam' as you claim then PLEASE tell me how!
Eric,
Thanks buddy! Thanks also for serving our country with your life! You are a hero!!!!
The real truth, I still some IBOs who live in my neighborhood dropping off and picking up Amquix stuff. I did hear and confirm that some WWDB IBOs still call in and pick up.
I also heard (but have not confirmed to my satisfaction) that many IBOs still have to go to pick up for their tapes and books. Any truth to that?
RT,
I wonder if you've read HTWF&IP. Doesn't it say never criticize, condemn or complain.
That's all I've seen you do to me and others. I came to you in a spirit of peace and caring - your responses have not been kind. You say you are a Christian? I answer back to you in a Christian manner, you answer back mocking me. I am who I say I am - you can think what you want. You've been in 4 years? You are maybe 2500 PV -maybe not consistently if a lot of your volume comes from retailing. I know that if I tell my story, you'll come back with the standard rhetoric of what I did wrong. If you can seriously listen to my responses without nasty comebacks and saying that you don't believe me, I will put some of my financials and experience out here. Otherwise, I won't bother because you'll try to cut it to shreds. It is so sad to me how current "fired up" IBOs treat previous IBOs who want to tell the truth of what happened to them. The cardinal rules play right into this and keep others from finding out the "real truth" of the business. Like I said, I'll put some numbers out here in a factual manner if you will take it seriously and to heart.
The Quixtar and WWDB business numbers don't lie either. How many IBOs quit each year and how many go platinum, ruby, emerald, or diamond? How many new WWDB diamonds this year? ZERO!!! Have you seen the pin winner sheet recently? Hardly any platinums and diamonds are disappearing at a scary pace. Here's a kicker: Non-qualified platinum, ruby volume, double eagles are speaking at WWDB FED and Family Reunions this year!!! That speaks volumes. The motive for these events? So the diamonds can get their big checks from quixtar.
Let me know if you can handle the "real truth".
jj
Jane and The Real Truth,
I'm aware that products aren't moved via product pickup anymore. When I was still in the business, however, we went each week to what was still called product pickup to get board notes and standing order - very little actual product was moved through this method as most people were on DITTO. While Kate can be utilized to transmit board notes (along with the board notes field in e-office), how do you receive your standing order and other related tools? That's what I was referring to when I mentioned product pickup and should have been clearer about that in my post.
The Real Truth,
Yes, CORE is CORE, and when I was active, it meant showing the plan a minimum of twice a week, which is why I asked if they had changed it in the last year. All the Diamonds did was reinforce it, and many stated that you'd have to go hard-CORE to reach Diamond, i.e. show more than two plans a week.
What's my point? Interesting that you try to create distractions from the topic by talking about all the other places you drive as it's irrelevant. Since you missed it the first couple times, here is my point: going back to one of your previous posts, you don't ever mention mileage as part of your $150-$200 in monthly business expenses. Are you writing off your business mileage each year? If so, that's a business expense and as such needs to be included in your monthly P&L - it's not solely a tax credit.
I never said the norm for you when you were in corporate America was wrong or false. Regardless, you still made the choice to go out to lunch everyday instead of bringing it from home.
I also never put words in your mouth - I made a general statement on your attitude through this thread, one that is quite accurate, I might add. And how is the 100 PV IBO that is CORE suffering? Let's break it down:
1) Since this is an online business, the main way to gain credibility is to have a website to direct people to - to not have a website makes you somebody selling product out of your garage. At any rate, to get that website, you would need Premiere Membership, which costs $49.95 a month.
2) IBOs that achieve 100 PV a month are paid their performance bonus at 3% of their BV. So, let’s assume an IBO buys and sells nothing but XS – one of the more popular products. To earn a performance bonus, the IBO would need to purchase 15 cases and would end the month with 106.12 PV and 306 BV. At 3%, that works out to a performance bonus of $9.18. Now let’s assume the IBO sells 8 cases to retail customers at suggested retail, and then consumes the rest themself and buys from their business at wholesale. That would work out to a retail profit of $27.84. In total, the IBO has a gross profit of $37.02.
3) Since the IBO is CORE, let’s add standing order for $15 and one book at $15, all at cost. We’ll assume the IBO doesn’t buy additional CDs or books, nor attend any opens or functions this particular month. Kate would be $36.95.
4) So at the end of the month, their income statement looks something like this:
Total Revenue $333.84
Cost of Goods Sold 306.00
-------
Gross Profit 27.84
Operating Expenses
Premiere Membership 49.95
Tools / CDs 30.00
CommuniKate/Voicemail 36.95
-------
Total Operating Expenses 116.90
-------
Operating Income (89.06)
Other Income (Bonus Check) 9.18
-------
Earnings before Taxes (79.88)
Income Tax --
------
Net Income (79.88)
=====
As you can see, they’re running at a loss. What happened to instant profit? CORE is what happened.
Regarding your hourly pay, you’re quite welcome. You should also be aware that you could make the same amount of money, if not more, for the same amount of time as you and your husband put in to the business combined, as a teenager does working at Starbucks. But if you’re happy with that, more power to you.
Exwwdbibo,
Wow. Bummer for you. Guess your Diamond and/or Platinum felt that that was the best way to distro info and CDs.
Some people like/liked pickup 'cause of the social aspect. Others thought it was stupid or not worth their time and effort.
Being an INDEPENDANT business OWNER, did you try to make other arrangements if you were not pleased with the setup?
jj,
I am sorry you feel the way you do about my responses. I don't agree that I criticized, condemned or mocked you. Nor did I complain. I'm not sure where you got that. And the semi-biblical quote you wrote didn't even make sense to me and it didn't apply at all to what we were discussing!
I have been, with sincerity I might add, asking you for specifics & details. I have never received anything like that from any critic on this site. The main thing I've heard from people who felt scammed by this business is that they blindly did whatever their upline told them to do. Then when things didn't work out, they blamed the AMO's/QMO's or Quixtar/Amway.
Well, that's just not smart. God will not bless stupid decisions or bad choices. Unfortunately, we've had to learn that the hard way.
One has to use common sense. And every person's situation will be different. Some will be able to afford to start up their website and attend a conference right away. Some will not. We want them to, but if it puts them in a tough financial situation, we help them through that. Either they sell products to EARN (what a concept) money to pay for their business tools OR they just have to go out & retail & sponsor until they become profitable and put aside the additional expenses until their business can support it. It absolutely blows my mind how many flakes there are out there. We've had so many people, to our face, tell us they want a change, they NEED to change and they'll willing & ready to work! When it comes down to retailing or going to a training session or showing the plan (by the way, we offer to do it all right by their side!), they flake. All of a sudden they can't do it. Amazing.
If people start buying XS & the other beverages as well as the protein, snack & meal replacement bars and they don't replace something else with it, well, they'll find they're spending more money per month, not less. We teach to REPLACE competitive products with your own. We teach to SWITCH where you purchase cleaning & bath & kitchen & laundry products. Don't buy what you don't need. Don't buy more than you did before. Unless you can AFFORD to do so and you can justify the cost!
I would love to hear your story if you're still willing to share it. Trust me, I'm not out to mock you or make fun of you or call you a liar. I just want details. Not vague accusations of mind control or brain washing. I appreciate it jj.
Exwwdbibo, great post!
I believe you are spot on, it's the system expenses that usually cause an IBO to operate at a loss. Ironically, some upline promote the system as the key to your success, when in reality for many IBOs, the system what causes many IBOs to suffer financial losses.
exwwdbibo,
Upline can either mail the cd's to us or, like us, we can pick it up once a month or so. We see them at meetings and we just get it then. It works out for us.
To my knowledge in the four years we've been involved, CORE has been one plan a week.
First of all exwwdbibo, you are using an example created in your head. And a bad example at that. (I used real-life scenario's a.k.a. FACTS). You and joecool had mentioned a 100PV IBO. Not a CORE 100PV IBO. There is a difference. A 100PV IBO is a Prosumer and receives quality goods/services in return for their money.
A CORE IBO on the other hand is one who has professed to their upline that they desire to build the business. Otherwise CORE does not apply. It only applies to business builders. So, with that said, a CORE IBO would not be 100PV for very long, if indeed, they were CORE. CORE includes "showing the plan" at least once a week. It also means personal use. Not just XS but most everything that is a consumable that they can get for the same or less price from their own business. CORE also means doing RETAIL. RETAILING means PROFIT. That is, if you're doing it right. When you RETAIL, you are selling a product/service for more than you paid for it. So, as you are attending training sessions and large business conferences, you should also be building your business by retailing products/services (ie: through your website) AND showing others how to do the same.
By the way, READING for 15 minutes out of a success/leadership book (from the booklist) is part of CORE. Not BUYING a book every month!
5% (or less) of IBO's are CORE on a consistent basis. That's why you don't see Platinums & Ruby's & Diamonds being pumped out month after month. Because most people just plain and simple, do not do what it takes. We haven't even been 100% CORE on a steady & consistent basis. If we had, we'd be a Ruby or Diamond by now. I believe that because I've seen direct results (growing team AND a growing profit margin).
We, as a society have become very comfortable and very spoiled. Our lives are "good enough". We've settled. However, because of the recession we're in (and quite possibly, soon to be depression) people are looking. They need something else because the job/s thing alone, isn't working. They need to supplement. They need to find a way to build a retirement. They need to figure out how to help their kids go to college. They need to figure out how to pay off their mortgage or how to just plain get out of the credit card debt they've gotten themselves into. That's where we come in. We offer an honest, real & viable part-time opportunity.
By the way, I don't know where you live, but a teenager working at Starbucks here in Minnesota does NOT make $10-12 an hour! And do I need to reiterate AGAIN the fact that an hourly employee does not determine where, when or with whom they work? There is definite value to those benefits!
Good day.
The Real Truth,
You talk about using common sense. That's is true, but the teaching is contradictory to that.
I was in WWDB. We were taugh to submit to upline as man submits to God. Check upline for everything - why reinvent the wheel. You can try your own ways, but (insert name) so and so diamond is a multi millionare and he advises this- but if you think you know better, then do it your way.
That kind of teaching does not suggest that advice is optional.
TRT, what, exactly, is one supposed to "replace" with the purchase of XS, protein, snack or meal replacement bars? I've never purchased a can of red bull or any other "energy drink" in my life. And even though I am a distance runner, I have probably purchased about 20-30 meal/snack or protein bars in the LAST TEN YEARS. We eat FOOD. We feed our children FOOD. There is no FOOD you can replace with bars or XS.
You also wrote, referring to "CORE": It also means personal use. Not just XS but most everything that is a consumable that they can get for the same or less price from their own business.
Such as what products? What product can I purchase from AmQuix that will cost me LESS than, or even the same as, what I am currently paying?
I am currently feeding a family of 6 on about $200/week, and this includes all of my consumables (bath, laundry and dish soap, paper products, trash and ziploc bags, kitty litter, dog and cat food, toothpaste, hair spray, lotions, shampoo, fabric softener, razors, shave cream, etc etc etc). Add to this 10 pounds of fresh fruit and 20 pounds of meat per week, a gallon of milk and loaf of bread per DAY, potatoes, onions, noodles, spices, fresh and frozen vegetables, coffee, juice, lunch meat, cheese, peanut butter and jelly, snack food, cereal, etc.
You think you can replace even one item in my shopping cart for the same amount of money? I shop once per week. One grocery store is on my way home from my Saturday morning trail run, so I don't spend extra gas to get there, the other I drive probably 5 miles round trip, and I alternate between these two stores, purchasing 2 weeks' worth of goods at a time. I'm a disciplined shopper, and virtually never make an "extra trip" for something I "forgot".
I am a careful spender who sets aside plenty of funds to shop "loss leaders". When boneless skinless chicken breast is $1.59/lb, I buy 60 pounds, and keep it in my large commercial-quality freezer. When my fave fabric softener is $2.50 for the big bottle, I buy 10.
DHs experience at CORE cost us at least $150 per month, over what I was spending. $250 is what he spent to replace, at most, $100 worth of product.
Can you do better? I couldn't, even after spending several hours perusing the catalogs.
And what did you say was your line 12 entry on your 1040, your profit margin, and the number of hours you spent to achieve it? I asked earlier, you must have missed it.
The Real Truth,
I could get into another long post and continue this pissing contest, but it's not worth my time. Therefore, I'll give you a short response.
My example is what it is - and was based on a popular product with a decent profit margin. It could be any mix of products, but my point was to use actual products to show the income of a 100 PV IBO – one with 50% of their total volume coming through retailing. Interesting you call it a bad example - doubt you'd have the same response if the financials showed a profit.
Your CORE vs. non-CORE argument? It’s irrelevant and a clear attempt to distract from the topic at hand. There’s no guarantee that CORE will work, thus a CORE IBO can be stuck at 100 PV indefinitely.
Regarding your statements about our society and their needs – all people need to do is start living below their means and the rest will take care of itself. I don’t need a business powered by Quixtar/Amway to create a retirement or pay off any debts. Also, in response to the who/where/when of an hourly job – those jobs are a dime a dozen. If you don’t like one, it’s pretty simple to find a new one. Meanwhile, if you have a falling out with your upline, you’re stuck with them – the only way to get out of that relationship is to not renew, find a new sponsor in a different line of sponsorship, and start from ground zero again. All that work you did before? Well, now your old upline is profiting from it. Doesn’t sound much different from a job, come to think of it.
JoeCool,
You were an IBO for, what, eight months, 13 years ago?
CK,
It appears that your shopping habits are not one that fits the profile of an Quixtar/Amway customer.
And it appears that you are satisfied with your current products.
And it appears that you do not see a viable market for the products Quxitar/Amway offers.
That being said, it would *not* make sense for you to be an IBO and promote such products that IBOs are paid to promote.
If I knew you, I would not approach you as a customer nor as someone I would share the business opportunity with.
And, I see it all the time, if the wife is not interested in the products or the business opportunity, it's an uphill battle for the husband.
Unhappy wives can make it a miserable time for their husbands--in all arenas of their lives.
I speak from experience. :)
joecool,
I agree that you have to "look at the fruit on the tree" of the person who is trying to give you advice. But that's all it is. Advice. I don't know why, but we've never been shunned or condemned or exiled or mistreated in any way when we didn't attend a particular meeting or stay until 2-3 in the morning. We just don't do that stuff.
In fact, we did have upline who advised us to get to all the functions (conferences) no matter what. No matter that we couldn't afford it at the time. Seriously. We couldn't. So we took turns. We bought one ticket and one of us would go & the other one would watch the kids. We'd drive too. And we ate food bars. Literally. We went as cheaply as we possibly could. But we still went. And it kept us focused. And it gave us hope. After job losses and nothing but negativitiy from family about money & their lives & health issues and all sorts of crap.....the cd's (sot) and the meetings were the ONLY things that gave us HOPE! That hope kept us going and showing the plan and following the basics of CORE. I have spent many years in the business world and corporate america. I've watched all the same inspirational movies you have and I've read all the cool stories about real-life heroes and even fictional ones. You know what they had in common? Staying focused, having a dream (or a nightmare) and fighting against ALL odds!!! They didn't give up when it got tough. They made sure they were reading stuff that helped them stay focused & find success. They made sure their association was in accordance to their goals! I know it sounds corny but it's true! We believe in that.
I guess we've taken what upline has said and maybe altered it a bit depending on our current situation. But, we always stayed on track, or got back on track as soon as we possibly could.
I hope that makes sense.
ck,
It's not often that I come across someone who I believe is more anal than me but boy oh boy....you take the cake! You must be some kind of an accountant or an analyst or an engineer or something. Totally opposite of me. I'm a Type A, customer service/sales oriented person all the way. Optimistic! That's me! You seem extremely skeptical and you really want to tear everything apart and study it under a microscope. Meanwhile...life (and opportunity) is passing you by!
I don't mean that in a "mean" way either. I just mean that that's your personality. It comes across very clearly in your posts. By the way, what PERSONAL experience do YOU have in the biz? I have a difficult time giving you credibility when you've never even been involved. Being a 3rd party spectator does not give you the right to pretend you know facts and have experiences in this industry.
I do. And let me give you a few answers to your questions. First of all, you would replace one drink a day with XS or a protein shake or one of the many drink offerings we have. MOST people DO drink a coffee or a tea (purchased) or a Mountain Dew or a Pepsi or an energy drink every day. Maybe not YOU but most people I know, DO! So, you replace one of those with an XS or a Sports Drink or an Antioxidant Juice or a Seismic Drink or a Protein Shake. Whatever.
You replace a snack (granola bar or doritoes or french fries or donut at the office) or replace a meal with a food bar. We have six kinds to choose from. Take your pick. Most people (probably not YOU) could stand to lose a few pounds.
You replace your current supplements with Double X OR Daily OR the new Simply Nutrilite Men's or Women's pack. Very affordable and the best supplements you'll ever find. Anywhere.
Also, in addition to the sports & nutrition products, you purchase cleaning, laundry, bath, cosmetics, skin care, hair care, kitchen, products from your own store. Of those, the cleaning, laundry, kitchen & bath have been proven to be LESS EXPENSIVE than the leading competitor when comparing usage to usage. And, with those, you get FREE SHIPPING.
The skin care, cosmetics, hair care products are all very competitively priced when comparing "like" products. I think you know what that means.
Once again CK, you are one in a million with the way you shop. Whew! You wear me out! You do realize, don't you, that most people are NOT disciplined shoppers? That's why Walmart was the largest company in the world for a time!!! Also, I can't imagine having to purchase an extra freezer so I can put tons of extra meat (the same kind even???) in there for storage because I saved a dollar per pound. I earned more than you saved in my 3rd bonus check in this business!!!
So, you go out of your way to save a penny (or several) every month while I build a business based on shopping smart and showing others how to do the same. So, I get savings AND my monthly bonus check builds and builds and builds every month! There's not even a comparison.
Anything else? Oh yeah, you want my personal income information. Well, I've given it. Go back and re-read my posts. It's there. If you can't read it or understand it, that's your problem.
Yes, TRT, my profession combines accounting and business analysis, so my "anal retentive" tendencies do serve me well professionally.
Although you posted some gross monthly figures, and some expenses, you have not posted, anywhere that I can find, the bottom line. In fact, you made reference to a comment about business mileage, with a non-sequiter about driving to lots of non-business destinations.
I deal with business owners who think that because their gross receipts are a few million a year, they're making money. They've never bothered to anaylize a profit/loss statement, if they've even had one prepared. Some of these businesses are really operating at break-even.
You, on the other hand, are in all likelihood a sole-propietor, and as such have a tax deadline of April 15th. This means that you have a fairly accurate profit/loss statement prepared every year in the form of your schedule C, and should be paying close attention to it.
That's why I asked for a real, annualized profit (your line 12 entry). I'm not interested in random months income and random expenses. The question is "how much are IBOs really profiting?". You have the opportunity to anecdotally answer this question, but choose not to.
Which might be an answer in itself.
Secondly, I agree that my shopping habits are not reflective of the general population, that's fair. Wouldn't it be better to teach people how to be stewards of their resources, than to redirect their misspending?
I spend 2 hours per week on my shopping. That's it. And I funnel my savings into my 410(K)-type account, which my employer matches (1-to-1). Even in a shaky market, I can move my money to bonds and t-bills, and earn 108% on my money (matching contribution plus the 4%). And I still only spent that same 2 hours per week. I highly doubt, and certainly haven't seen any evidence, that your actual profit is more than I am earning by my careful stewardship, especially when calculated per hour.
And yes, I know that it is the opinion of most IBOs that price comparisons should be made with only the leading market-brand, but the reality is that of the many, many Amway products I have used, including the personal care items, the ONLY ONE I found to be better than anything I could purchase locally (and for much less money) was the SA8 laundry stain remover. It smells terrible, but is head and shoulders above any competitor (even to the point of being worth the quadrupled price tag).
One product. I guess some companies have built empired on one product.
But Amway doesn't need to, because they have a captive marketplace. The IBO.
The Real Truth said: joecool,
I agree that you have to "look at the fruit on the tree" of the person who is trying to give you advice. But that's all it is. Advice. I don't know why, but we've never been shunned or condemned or exiled or mistreated in any way when we didn't attend a particular meeting or stay until 2-3 in the morning. We just don't do that stuff.
Joe says: Well, I was in WWDB. I built the business hard for about 7-8 months and made a decision to quit. I was not profitable as I was told I should be. I had the proper parameters and I did what I was advised to do.
My upline more and more wanted to make all the decisions in my life. It was almost to the point where I thought I needed to check upline to go to the potty. We were told that we needed to submit to upline to truly be successful because they have blazed the trail and all we need to do is "follow" their lead. We were told to get to all functions NO MATTER WHAT, as if our lives depended on it. We were told that anything that interfered with our financial futures needed to be set aside.
It got too creepy for me.
It blows my mind how many people make such a big deal and whine about $250+ in business expenses like its so impossible or unfair. C'mon! Lets be big boys and girls! The problem I see is SO many people pay for CORE but refuse to be CORE.
$27.84 gross profit. Are you kidding me? If people would go out and simply establish a true client base and actually SELL a product its amazing what happens.
Its sad to me that people allow so little to get in the way of so much opportunity.
Having an IBO for a roommate I occasionally purchase Quixtar products.
I have to admit they are pretty good at least the Simply Nutrilite line.
Only problem is really the price.
The Antioxidant juice at $30 for 12 9 oz cans is a bit too much "quality" for my meager salary of $60k. I drink alot of juice, and typically spend $40 a month on the stuff. To satiate my juice appetite I'd be spending $450 a month if it were to become my juice of choice.
That equals 3/4 my total intake of perishable goods for the month (including wine, beer and whiskey).
Likewise the Simply Nutrilite energy bars are flavorful and filling, but at $19.98 for 9? It's once again steep, especially when compared with CLIF Bars costing $10.50 for 12.
Likewise Trim Bars aren't bad but I don't understand the alluring phrase "With Nutrilite!" It begs the question "Nutrilite what?"
Also what does Q* mean by "free delivery" when one has to pay shipping?
TWS, spending $250 a month on business expenses is nto that much, if it were truly business expenses that helped your business. For example, if I ran a store, paying $250 for electricity ot advertising would simply be an expenditure associated with running a business. But in quixtar, a lot of those business support materials do nothing to help your business expend.
In fact, in addition to the expense, the business support materials actually take time away from you that could have resulted in producing income. IBOs spend far too much time doing non income producing activities
such as listening to tapes, attending seminars and reading books.
What pleasure do you find in trying to put down a business structure that has created success and positive relationships for almost 50 years? The only people I find so bitter about the business are people that are unwilling to actually work to succeed, they some how believe they can become and IBO and success will just fall in their lap, but these too are the people thatlater call the biz a "get rich quick scheme". Come on people, do a little research and get your facts straight.
Perfect Water is just that, water! There have of course been a handful of IBO's that decided for themselves that they would make medical claims about the water that are not factual. This is not by fault of the Quixtar/Amway Corporation, it is by fault of the IBO's involved. I have drank the water and I have demonstrated the water. It does work to improve flexibilty and balance almost instantly. Before you knock it, you might want to try it. And no, I don't fall for infommercials by any means! I researched this business over 4 years ago when we decided to work for our future success and it has provided our family with all of the benefits the compensation plan outlined and then some. Try working the business and following people in the biz that are successful and ethical, and you would have a hard time criticizing what we do!
Joecool,
I know many non-IBOs in other fields who attend seminars, listen to audios, and read books.
As humans looking to improve ourselves, many have found the above-mentioned items to be helpful, both IBOs and non-IBOs--WHEN THE INFORMATION IS APPLIED.
Jane, it is commendable for IBOs to try to improve themselves. You don't have to open a business to do that.
As for applying what IBOs learn, you have to know what they are being taught. Many of them are taught that you are a loser unless you are in Amway, that you are a failure if you quit, or Amway is not Quixtar, or perfect water helps you grow hair.
If that's what is taught, maybe that's why so few IBOs actually make a profit?
Joecool,
You are so 1990s, you are so extreme in your position, and your comments are so inflamatory (all around the Net, not just here) that it is so obvious you are not interested in any meaningful conversation.
Excuse me now while I have a sip of this refreshing new water called "Perfect Water". Mmmmm.
Jane,
Not sure which one of Joecool's comments you are responding to in your last post, but for someone that hasn't been involved in the business for many years, what he describes in his last post is still fair representation of what's been taught by the systems in the last few years.
During my time in the business, I heard many of the same comments that Joecool references being made from the stage at opens, conferences, and night owls. I do specifically remember FED 2006 where Brad Duncan stated to the crowd that "the only reason people quit is because somebody stole their dream". In addition, I also heard Duncan make all of the same comments that Joecool references.
So, the argument that I may have had a bad upline has just been debunked. Brad Duncan was my upline Diamond, and it just the people between him and me making the statements Joecool references. I also doubt Mr. Duncan has stopped making such statements either in the time since I last heard him speak - hell, he was still making claims that a brand new Founders Diamond will make $700,000 in their first year not long before his FED comments... and I know that figure isn't a Quixtar/Amway approved number either.
As for that bottle of water you're sipping from, please tell me how much of a difference you taste between that and any other bottled water on the market... might as well get this thread back on topic.
Exwwdbibo,
Brad Duncan is one of many Diamonds in WWDB. I like some of the stuff he says...I don't like some of the stuff he says.
Same goes for all the other Diamonds. I do not take everything that everyone says as the be-all-end-all.
Brad Duncan plays the Mr. Dreamer role, so that's why he talks, and talks, and talks, and talks, about The Dream.
Joecool's Diamond, BTW, is downline from Duncan, so there you go.
As far as the water goes...there are five key points to it. And though some do not believe in the importance of purification, inonization (pH level), microstructurization, and oxygenation, I do.
Yes, it really does taste good, which I think it's cause of the remineralization, but it is the other attributes that I'm attracted to.
I really don't need another lecture (anyone who's reading this) about how all (or some) of the above-mentioned attributes are bunk. You will be wasting your little keystrokes.
Exwwdbibo,
I don't know what to tell you, other than I am more encouraged today by what is happening than I've ever been before.
I can either be angry and unforgiving, or not.
And I guess I just think of who I was in the past, all the stupid things I've done, all the mistakes I've made, all the hurts I've cause people (none business-related, BTW)and I think of how I've been forgiven. How others have forgiven me.
So rather than be angry that changes weren't made sooner, I'm just grateful that the changes have been made, and are being made.
Jane said: You are so 1990s, you are so extreme in your position, and your comments are so inflamatory (all around the Net, not just here) that it is so obvious you are not interested in any meaningful conversation.
Joecool says: Jane, my experience was in the 1990's. However, I have conversations with current IBOs and can see what experiences current IBOs
describe and I don't see very many wholesale changes that have been made, except for the changes that appear to be forced by the corporation.
And I am civil in discussions. You bring up my exchanges with insider/ibofightback. Well, go back and read carefully, it is insider/ibofightback who resorts to insults and name calling, not myself.
For some reason, so many quixtar supporters take the truth as an insult. I don't understand why that it.
If your experience is good, that's fine. But there is enough evidence out there that many bad uplines still exist and people continue to be prospected into the bad groups. This blog is available for people doing research on the business to be able to see two sides of the story.
I am glad I tried this water yesterday before I knew it was in any way related to Amway. For the last 20+ years I have watched several very close friends live in poverty, while striving diligently to make their Amway (WWDB) dreams come true. So I am very anti-Amway. That said, however, I am a runner and run long distances regularly. I stretch after each run and know my limits of flexibility. Well my 15 year old daughter gave me a small cup of water yesterday without telling me anything about it. She had me stretch before and after, and the difference was amazing. Then she told me about it. I went directly to my running partners house and had her do the same thing. We couldn't believe it. I will try using some of the water for my next extra long run, and am curious about its effects. I still doubt almost every claim Amway makes, but I can't deny the almost immediate increase in my flexibility. Weird.
Joecool,
Research? Why should anyone listen to anyone (including me on a blog)?
They don't know you or me or anyone here. You could be making things up. I could be making things up. Who's to say?
Research? Please. All these blogs do is confirm one's already desire to either do the business or not. Period.
As the saying goes...whatever you look for, you see what you are looking for.
Jane, many people and/or prospects indeed do research on whether or not the quixtar business is a viable one or not.
As for making things up, that's true, anyone can say anything on a blog. The question is who is more believable.
As many IBOs are drive by commentors about how much they make in quixtar with not one shred of proof, it gives that side a questionable amount of credibility.
I believe the critics have done a better job of presenting a case. It's obvious that the majority of people who get involved in amquix. It's obvious that the tools are a significant source of income for the higher up diamonds. It's obvious that diamonds are not forever, based on the diamonds who resigned or got booted.
What's this research about? Who does research nowadays. It's like the blind leading the blind.
I have tried Perfect Water and it is awesome. It really does help alot and it is great. Yea i know there are many people that I believe are "hating" on this product. Please talk bad about the product after YOU have tried it. For me it is the best and it will be one of the TOP PRODUCTS out in the market. GO PERFECT ENHANCED DRINKING WATER!!!!
Who is hating perfect water? I'm sure it's good water. But is it worth paying $48 for a case instead of paying $4.99 for a case of water at Walmart?
As has been discussed, oxygenated water is all good, but oxygen is processed by your lungs, not your stomach.
It is pretty amazing how easily some individuals can buy into such crap. No, I haven't tried Perfect Water and don't plan to even though I have been asked. Even if you have some basic knowledge of biology, chemistry, and physiology you should know that the claims made by these companies are ridiculous. As has been mentioned, oxygen is not absorbed by the body through the stomach it is absorbed in the lungs. Even if it is absorbed in the stomach the amount present in the water is small relative to the amount that the average person inhales every minute (about 3.0 liters). In fact, at sea level, not all of the oxygen inhaled is even absorbed by the body (depending of course on physical activity and fitness of individuals). You cannot bind oxygen to water and still have water. H2O becomes H2O2 which is also known as hydrogen peroxide. Do you really want to drink that?
PURE water is not alkaline or acidic. Now, natural rain water or spring water does contain some ions such as calcium and/or bicarbonates, but the alkalinity is destroyed once it comes in contact with the HCl acid in the stomach. Why "purify" water and then add impurities to ionize and make it alkaline? Doesn't make much sense!
The tip tests...another ridiculous marketing claim with no research to back it up. Again, some simple human motor learning and physiology goes a long ways here. The act of performing the 1 or 2 pre-tests simply prepares/pre-conditions the subject to perform the same test with more success as long as the post-tests are done within a short time. You could perform the same tests with equal success with or without the water. Try it yourself...I have! Have you ever done a sit-and-reach or trunk flexibility test in school? The second and third tries are almost always the best!
If you truly believe the claims of Perfect Water and think it makes you "feel" better, by all means, keep paying $2.00 a bottle. I'll stick to my tap and bottle water for pennies on the gallon.
I'm writing this message to say that this water is remarkable. I too was very skeptical at first. I'm 18 and very curious aout everything and when I heard bout this product I knew I had to go see if this was a hoax or not and I went to the demonstration. Now I have tried it myself and it actualy works.
If you want more information on how to purchase some "Perfet Water" contact me. This water is as affordable as any other water out there with many benefits. If you are into sports or strength training anything of that sort this would be a great thing to take advantage of.
Ok, let's think about this for a moment.
If perfect water really did what IBOs are claiming and the product was so great, why would the perfect water company market their product thru quixtar instead of marketing the product thru a retail giant such as Walmart or Costco?
Haiyen DO
This isn't the proper place to be promoting your "business" or any 'snake-oil' products. If you think it's great, fine. It doesn't make you the expert on this product.
Truth,
Man, don't you ever get tired of people trying to promote themselves and their businesses without paying for the ad-rights? This stuff is erks me sometimes, when someone randomly comes on and starts asking people to contact him or her if they want more information, as if people didn't know where to get this garbage from.
I have done the test. I thought it was horsebleep before....but honest to god the flexibility increased as well as balance.
Myself I can't afford 2 bucks a bottle, but for the athlete I think it's worth the money.
My chiropracter got me to do the exact same tests when I first started with him. We did the test twice, his reasoning was the first test was a warm up, and the second test was going to be the baseline for where improvement is determined from.
There is something called the placebo effect, and it exists is so many different studies. The entire goal of doing a study on a product like this is to reduce the placebo effect as much as possible. This is why something called Double blind was invented.
To do an accurate test, you need a large sample base, and controls. Neither the volunteer or demonstrater would know which ounce of water was the perfect water. You would also need to determine if it was actually the water itself that was causing the results. You would find this out by using no water, and using items unrelated to water, such as chocolate cake.
If after all that you find that in hundreds of quantitatively measured tests, not just "oh wow looks like she went further this time" you could back up a claim, with the study to prove it, published in some journal.
Honestly, why are people so gullible when it comes to subjective small scale live demonstrations with no attempt at reducing the placebo effect.
Claiming this product can do something of medical nature unverified by large studies is first of all illegal, and second of all unethical.
Here is a claim for you and how it often works in Canada.
Diets rich in fibre have been shown to reduce cholestoral. Whole Grain Cheerios is a good source of fibre.
See, thats how marketing works up North. You can't claim cheerios reduces cholestoral because they haven't proven it in a large indepedent study.
All Perfect Water can really claim is that their water contains a chemical called H2O that reduces incidence of dehydration, aids in digestion and the whole gamut of whatever water has been proven to do.
But I guess people that buy perfect water also believe throwing salt over your shoulder when you spill it will keep the demons away to? Last I checked there was no study to prove that, but as shown here, you don't need studies to be able to sell "demon banishing salt" to Quixtar IBOS.
I tried the water and it doesn't taste too pure like how I like my Ice Mountain. I would have to say drinking that water doesn't prove anything. The first stretch. Yeah, I couldn't stretch all around too far because I've been sitting all day long. The second stretch since I already knew how to do it. I can just redo it again...After drinking the water my 2nd stretch was the same..I couldn't put both my palm on the ground. But today after jogging for a good 20 min. I could put both my palms on the ground..So what's the difference? Prove me wrong. I don't see anything special about those perfect water.
1st, because the upline claims to be so honest and open why don't they ever disclose tool income? The "integrity" the diamonds so insist they hold would prove true if IBOs got a piece of the tool income just like they do the product income (PV bonus table anyone?).
2nd, Greg Duncan owns part of XS just like Bill Hawkins owns part of PerfectWater. And they both own part of WWDB and the tool profit that LLC makes. These guys are double and triple dipping (at least) into your pockets.
IT WORKED! We had a skeptic among us, but 8 people at a graduation party stretched out as best they could over and over, but they drank a little bit of this water and freaked themselves out! I had like 7 beers and told him that I probably wouldn't be a good candidate, but I gave it a shot. I couldn't touch my toes, but after a sip of water, I had my fingers under my feet! I kid you not! Just try it! We were screaming because it's scary how this effects you. A doctor there was a skeptic who wouldn't try it or believe it, but other that her it was a blast. I can't tell you how it works, but it does, I tried it. And if you want the even scarier truth, everything has a molecular energy and you don't even have to drink this. You can hold the bottle and it will still work, scary. That's why they won't let you touch the bottle when doing the demonstration. In fact, he kept the bottle in the other room. Just try it, that's all I can say.
I have always been a water drinker even before the perfect water. I have been drinking the perfect water for about a month now and I have to say it's the first time I have ever drank water without advil and been able to get rid of a headache. (Most times the advil did not work) I have alot of neck pain followed by migraines, from a car accident and the perfect water has helped me more than any drug!! As a massage therapist I am very intuned with my own body and how my body feels. I have to say I notice the difference. Yes it is water, tastes like water, looks like water, but for me it really has a different affect from just plain water. The expense? Well I would rather put my money on something natural as water than pay the pharmaceutical giants, which you also pay for side affects. I do not trust drugs, over the counter, prescribed, none of it. (my mother is in the middle of a law suit for a drug that basically has left her handicapped, and it was supposed to help her). It feels good to know I have found something natural that actually helps and works for me, with no side affects other than being hydrated. People are right it's not a cure for anything, but if it works for me I'm gonna pay for it! This is written by someone who has tried it and seen a handful of others try it and use it everyday. I cannot stress enough how thankful I am for this product.. I was almost to the point of living with a migraine everyday of my life. As of this whole month I have been migraine free!!! Thank you!! Thank you!!
My husband and I are new IBOs. My husband was bringing home these XS drinks and I was a skeptic. I do not drink energy drinks but he does, it wasn't until he introduced the water that I became interested and found out that Quixtar have other products. When we became IBO's I started to try other products that they offer and I love them!! The water specially, I know many people who are sold to them not because of the tip test but because of how they can feel the difference with their workout and their daily activities. I was surprised to learn that Quixtar is also Amway, I was only a child when I heard of Amway, and here I am now an IBO. I'm not in it to make millions I'm not greedy like that, and I am not a salesman and I'm not quitting my regular job. I don't have to. There has been no pressure and I don't pressure anyone. I was sold to it by someone who I notice was not a salesman either. I was sold because the man I met was just as nervous as I was. He uses the products and love the products, so I was sold because I tried the products and love the products, specificly Nutrilite, trim advantage, and perfect water. I also get the anyway money concept. Hooray to Sam Walton!! His family will continue to make money without my full support! I still do go to Wal-mart, just not as often, I now support more our little grocery store for my fresh meat and veggies. In turn our little grocery store has given their customers coupons to fill up on gas!! Thanks for that!! The truth is people are looking for good products and products that are good for you, I am one of those people. Someone told me as I was talking about certain products, "you never hear people say I need to drink more soda, or I need to eat more chocolate, no. They are saying I need to eat more healthy". That really made complete sense to me! If you go to an all natural food store, you pay more. So to me, Quixtar offered the products I wanted and I'm happy with it! Yes it's a gamble, but we signed up May 17, and we have made our money back and I'm happy with that! If we make money, great! If we come out even great! I'm still doing what I want to be doing! It's all about the intention, my intention is to sell the products that I use and are happy with. If I don't then that's fine! I can see that Quixtar/Amway has had a negative image on some and for that I'm sorry, but it hasn't tainted my positive attitude.
As far as the perfect water.. well that's a whole new testimony for me! It works for me! I am getting what I pay for! I would rather put my dollars on what works and I still drink my tap water too! For the few weeks I've been drinking it I've had more energy and pain free around my knee, which I always knew will need surgery. So if it works for me, there's no arguement there! I do what I do for me, and I'm merely an example, a testimony for my friends and family, and prospect customers! I hear a good salesman is a salesman who stands behind his/her products!
Jonathon writes "And if you want the even scarier truth, everything has a molecular energy and you don't even have to drink this. You can hold the bottle and it will still work, scary. That's why they won't let you touch the bottle when doing the demonstration. In fact, he kept the bottle in the other room. Just try it, that's all I can say."
An even scarier truth is that there are people out there who believe that the molecular energy from a bottle of oxygenated water can be transferred via osmosis.
How is molecular energy (which is stored energy) released? Might want to think that through.
Joecool... you may not be a doctor and may not have jumped off a tall building, but one this is certain by your obtuse reasoning, you are an idiot.
I sincerely hope that your chosen field of expertise has nothing to do with science or any aspect of investigative work. Don't feel bad... perhaps your ancestors also imprisoned people for claiming that the world was round, not flat. It had to be flat, or they would have already known it.
I am not an IBO, before you start hopping on me like a drunken kangaroo. I simply just don't understand why you or your zealous kinsmen have such a hard-line opposition to things without any factual basis. I understand that you are not alone in your small-mindedness, but I've searched three websites now to get an unbiased opinion on this product I was approached with recently and am overwhelmingly annoyed by the over apparent bias.
For the rest of the general mass, it is simply retarded to make an educated deduction/conclusion on a food product by a video medium only; even more foolish to use such media as an opportunity to malign a company, group/entity, or chosen line of work.
As I searched to find personal experiences and testimonies, I am disgusted to find the ever-present harlotry of ignorance some call insight or wisdom.
Some of you need to get off your soapboxes and go read a book!!!
Wow writes: Joecool... you may not be a doctor and may not have jumped off a tall building, but one this is certain by your obtuse reasoning, you are an idiot.
Joecool says: FYI, I tried perfect water and guess what? It's water.
Nothing more or less. At least I am making informed comments unlike yourself.
I was so skeptic when I looked into the Perfect Water demos and discussions.
I recently order the Perfect Water from Quixtar.com and tried the same demos on 15 different colleagues and friends. I thought the people who were doing demos on the video are doing some tricks.
With no tricks, I was so surprised to see the exact same result for all my trials.
Now I carry this perfect water daily to gym for my workout. Before Perfect water I used to burn avg 14 Calories a min in Treadmill, with the use of Perfect Water I am able to burn 18 Calories a min on the same treadmill.
I am not a scientist to understand the technology behind this. Now also understand that the people who write blogs and skeptic comments like the above are not scientist either.
In my opinion only people who has nothing better to do will spend their time on web writing such things. You can call them as broke to..( that may include myself)..
One of bullshit guy I have ever seen is "Scott Larsen". I thought he had some grounds to back up his allegations against Perfect water, Amway Quixtar. I emailed him several times with several questions, he never was able to reply with any facts. He knows lot people go to web to search information about Quixtar Amway business opportunity and he is making money by capitalizing on this. Shame on you Scott Larsen. He never discloses this fact..
I am not a Quixtar IBO by the way. You need to work really hard to make big money in Quixtar or Amway. I am not ready to work hard.. I just want to live average life,,do nothing other than job ( i do the minimum amount of work to get by) watch TV.. that’s all..I buy only lottery tickets. (MEGA Million Lottery). that is the easiest way I know to become millionaire.
If you are ambitious person willing to work hard you can consider doing some business rather be a slave in job.
you guys are all dumb, you can't come onto someones website and expect to convince them of anything.
that's like going to the vatican and telling the pope he isn't a holy man.
we all know he's just a dude, but wtf you don't do that crap.
Hi. One of my patients (I'm a DC) gave me a bottle. Haven't opened it yet. Have been looking over at least 50 sites to get a feel for it first. I like this thread, as it brings out a lot of insights. Thanks to all.
I wondered what I could add, and the only thing that arose is 'tester bias' as something to consider. In my medical career as well as my chiropractic career, belief systems have been shown to be powerful (former head of a nuclear med department and a long time EMT) elements in health and healing. All providers, no matter what alphabet soup exists after their names, are to some degree 'faith healers'.
That brings to mind the tipping test. Bracing for the second push was a valid thought, as was someone else who educated the pushee regarding multiple tries before imbibing, and as was the person who stated that having a double blind study where the pusher didn't know which samples were tap and which were product.
To me, this points to a reasonable doubt due to tester bias, where their belief either alters their testing technique or whether the testee buys into the tester's belief system. Remember, the 4 minute mile was impossible until someone did it, then many others likewise accomplished the feat. Imaging therapy for healing has volumes of success stories, especially with cancer. Belief is a powerful thing, and we so often discount it when trying to be scientific.
I've read the pros and cons, will try a few experiments of my own, then pass on to my patients personally and by our office newsletter I write (anyone is welcome to receive it).
To those who believe or wish to, may God bless. Chances are you will be vindicated. To those who feel it's bunk and snake oil, may God bless. You will be proven right in your eyes. How can that dichotomy happen?
Belief.
My daughter is a gymnastic. Her coach had the girls try this water and then 3 strength and stretch tests. I was a complete skeptic. The coach who is not a distributor, got the water from a coach at another gym, gave me the same test. He did the 3 tests the exact same way before and after I drank the water. He is not selling the water and had nothing to gain by any type of dishonesty. I'm a firm believer of this water. My daughter got a bottle of water from her coach and tried the test with several of her friends and had the same positive results. I went from being a total skeptic to a firm believer and had no idea who was distributing the water at the time of the test.
The IBOs have to purchase the water for you to TRY. If you haven't tried it, you can't knock it... The end
Stephani wrote: The IBOs have to purchase the water for you to TRY. If you haven't tried it, you can't knock it... The end
Joe says: Wow, I have magic water also. You sip it and you can fly. With the high price of gas, you can save thousandsof dollars using my magic water.
What's that? You don't believe me?
Well, you can't knock it until you try it right?
I have tried Amways perfect water and I will tell you the first two cases I bought at $50.00 a case (REAL EXPENSIVE) was totally great real smooth it helped me with acid reflux one night and I was sold on this water so I bought my own ionized filter of E-bay for $135 Great Deal and got my whole family drinking ionized water everybody in my family loves ionized water. Then I bought my 3rd case because I wanted the bottles it comes in Ive been using these bottles to fill up with my ionized filter I got off e-bay from the first bottle I noticed this water just isn't tasting as good as the first 2 cases a bit bitter like tap water so just for the heck of it I used of my ph test strips I bought and checked the Water PH and it read 6.75 to 7.0 which is what Tap Water is I did another test this time with my Ph drops and again it read 7.0PH. I a bit disappointed in this water now. At $50.00 a case it better be real good like the water I get from my Ionized filter at 9.0PH. I taking a couple of bottles of Perfect water to work tomorrow and give the guy I bought this water from and show him a Demo Of what I found and get a Full Refund. At the very least Perfects water Quality assurance process really sucks. I wont buy anymore.
I just got a"KATE" that sales of Perfect Water are through the roof. I guess my ESpring was a waste of $500. We were told THAT was perfect water. Well I won't be purchasing Perfect Water or a new cartridge for the ESpring. Drinking straight from the tap. I feel like a rebel(lol.) Small things like that feel great after years of being an IBO. Now I really have freedom.
Posted by: IBO? | March 27, 2008 9:43 PM