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June 25, 2007
The End
By QBlog in Blog News
Is this the end?
I received a call a few days ago about Quixtar changing its name back to Amway. My initial reaction was to mutter, "it's about damn time."
My second reaction was an observation that there won't be much use for a "Quixtar BLOG" once the whole thing shifts back to Amway. Amwayblog.com is already owned by Ty Tribble so I won't be shifting my attentions to Amway. And would I really want to anyway? Probably not.
For those regular readers who've stuck around the Quixtar BLOG you're already familiar with my lack of participation in the thing that I created a few years ago. Life has demanded that I pour my energies elsewhere and I've eagerly followed those demands to satisfy my ambitions.
Yet, as I've pulled back from this blog (and the forum, wiki and podcast) I continue to think that one day I'll return and dive back into that fascinating world of the "Great Quixtar Debate." And so I leave the door open, refusing to end the thing that's taught me so much about my life's true passion — the World Wide Web.
But perhaps Quixtar, Alticor and Amway are going to end it for me? Perhaps flipping their crappy MLM back to the old Amway brand will be the end of this blog as well.
What do you think?
Comments
I dont think that you should stop the blog. If you stop this blog you give them what they want. Dont think that they havent thought of this when they were deciding to change the name back to Amway. They want forums like this to go away. Maybe add something to the name of the blog like Quixtarnowamway.com or something similar. With the fallout from this deception, people will need somewhere to go to find comfort and validation in their decision. Thanks for your forum, it has been therapeutic for us during the healing process.
Mmm, Scott Larsen of amquix.info has been remarkably quiet of late too.
Honestly, though I quite obviously believe a lot of what has been said on sites like this has been wrong or misleading, a lot of what has been said has been quite correct and deserving of criticism.
Too many people believe their own press, and for quite a while there, that meant the amway folk. Once the internet became a greater force, that problem spread to the "critic" side, with Amway actively taking the decision to basically ignore the critics and hope they went away. So then those who utilised the internet tending to get an imbalance in favour of the critics, many of whom IMO have also ended up believing too much of their own press.
Thanks to the almost eternal memory of the 'net, that balance is still the way of the critics, but with supporters such as myself, and now the corp themselves engaging in the discussion, things will swing back to somewhere that hopefully approaches actual truth.
What's the truth? Well, as I've stated, virtually all critics opinions have their basis in some real experience, and some real behaviour by some real IBO, so most stories have validity. My biggest beef has always been the overgeneralization of criticism rather than criticism per se. That, plus the lack of balance in the discussion leads to the internet providing a misleading perception of what this business is about and how it can be operated.
Finally though, that's being addressed, as are many of the *real* issues that lead to criticism. The corp. has definitely started taking notice - though I fear they too are believing a little too much of the internet echo chamber. The "systems" I think are yet to really make the leap into the internet discussion arena, and accept the valid criticism that does arise. Hopefully that is changing.
So, what's the long-term legacy of QuixtarBlog? Only time will tell. I think sites like this have had a far greater influence on our business than they should have, but by the same token they have contributed to dismissing a certain inertia amongst corporate and IBO leaders, and that's a positive.
So, all in all, there's definitely been some positives, but I'll buy you a beer or three if you hit the delete key as soon as possible and get rid of the lot :-)
"Honestly, though I quite obviously believe a lot of what has been said on sites like this has been wrong or misleading, a lot of what has been said has been quite correct and deserving of criticism."
THIS one or sites LIKE this one?
People on both sides of the AmQuix debate have been allowed to participate in this blog and on the forum on a consistent basis. That is not true of many AmQuix-related sites.
The clarity and veracity of the arguments are not in the individual statements of people on one side or the other of the issue. It is in the consistency of the arguments made by those one each side. People on both sides of the issue have made erroneous remarks, some by accident and others with an intention that goes along with a particular agenda. So making blanket statements about the "right-ness" or "wrong-ness" of what people post on "sites like this one" is, in itself, misleading.
PW
I guess ibofightback's eagerness to end this blog should make you decide against it :-)
To beat ibofightback's offer, I offer a beer party to all QBloggers. Someday, somwehere ... :-)
I, for one, want to thank you for your past commitment to this site. And while I greatly resepect that there are other things for you, I will sorely miss this site. I believe the most interesting of times in the history of Quixtar will occur over the next 12-18 months. I have personally witnessed a great friend spend so much of her life and energy trying to convince people that Q is not Amway. She has believed the deception of her upline diamonds. It breaks my heart how they have taken advantage of her. I am in hopes that the entire tools system for these kingpins will be exposed and shut down. Anyway, I just think we are entering the most pivotal point in Q/A history. Thus, I ask you to hang in there a while more. Thanks for this tremendous site.
When I joined prior to Quixtar launch, while still Amway, I beleived this business was one of good intentions, widely misunderstood. I thought I could overcome any negative perceptions the prospects had.
Those negative perceptions were in fact correct. I stayed 6 years and 3 months to discover that. The Motivational Organizations with the silence of the Corp brainwashed, manipulated and expoited people, all in the interest of "helping them". Yes, no one held a gun to my head, I made my own decisions, that were reinforced by the theory, "what if", meaning "what if you quit and this guy goes Diamond?", repetitive tapes (100 per year x 6 years), seminars, far away conferences 3 times per year, repeating the SAME 'teachings'.
This site assisted my search for how I became entrenched in this thing for so long.
A lot of revelations came from listening to former diamonds, emeralds and platinums that confirmed my opinions that the "numbers don't work", and the "projections are agressive"
I too think I've answered all my questions, delved into just about every aspect of this business, and feel it is time to put this behind me, and move on.
I would like to think I helped stir the debate, so another generation doesn't get sucked in. It looks like the changes will be more dramatic than even I expected. Now, we'll see if any real change occurs or is this just another "remake" to convince the public it is the "NEW and IMPROVED Amway"?
Changes that are coming certainly are due to the power of the internet itself. This business sinks or swims on the power of "word of mouth". All the Corporate websites in the world are not going to convince people to stay. It may increase enrollments, but the business will have to stand upon it's own merits to stop the huge turnover. If I knew how much turnover there was, I would never have joined.
Now, one look at the annual "Achieve" Magazine will show clearly that while the USA has approx 7% Asian population, it's Quixtar award winners make up a whopping 75% Asian. The business is sinking quickly in the largest, and oldest and demographic groups of North America.
That means saturation.
The Corp. better change (more than just the name) because Asian groups are very loyal and tightly knit. Fallout in that group will send the entire business to the bottom, FAST. In fact, they are probably already asking: "why is there no Amway in it's home country?"
Thanks QBlog for giving me a voice, a place to vent, a place to understand what happened, and therapy. You provided a great public service.
In fact Amway themselves should thank you because it was HERE they heard the REAL complaints, in more detail than they would have ever otherwise heard.
Whether they waited too long or not to take action, we shall see. Whether they took action on their OWN initiative or because they were FORCED to, remains uncertain. I think they were FORCED to.
I would not change the name of the blog. I would add a Korean language version though-ha.
Willy
Read the book: "Amway: The Cult of Free Enterprise" , by Stephen Butterfield (1985)
"hey fella, you look sharp, have you ever thought about other ways of making money?"
ibofightback / insider, here's a lesson you could learn from QBlog.
Write tight.
Well, I hope this forum sticks around for a while - the entire name change is supposed to happen over the next 2 years??
And since many of us have always referred to "Amway" when posting, there will be a lot of good information available even after the name changes back.
At any rate, you DO have some time to ponder the next step.....
Deb
I do believe it is very important for this site to continue. It is only because of sites like these that the tools scam has really been brought to the attention of eveyone concerned - if it had not been for the internet then I suspect that everything would have been allowed to carry on.
However, Amway UK seem to have taken steps to sort this, but if Amway/Quixtar are serious about it, and truly acknowledge that it is a problem, why hasn't similar action been taken in the US?
That is why it is still (unfortunately) very important for informed websites like this (and amquix) to continue. Please do.
Hello,
Exciting news! Well maybe after all your blog was a bit worth it and made things Better. I still believe it had too much negative and not enough positive but the Amway ship is turning its ship. Wow in “08” on top of the incentive plan which is good already they are adding 70 million in new incentives coming for Ibo’s and a boost and change in the compensation plan to help new Ibo’s be more profitable along with a hole new product line to build higher PV and incentive at the lower levels. Your blog may have just been enough to make this the (Best Business Opportunity in the World) bar none. If people can get past the Name they will now find a great company who is now willing to pay the best in this market period. As for tools area which some complained about it now is a smooth running deal since most of the larger organization is now done and tracked on line so all dollars are allocated for and seen. Nothing is hid and all is exposed. The only thing one needs todo now will go out and honestly built this business and share the plan. THEY Heard the Critics and Changed. Change takes time but many are and will be very excited. Thanks for you hard work which at time I really did not like you guys but you made our business better. There really is nothing to criticize now except those who decide to work harder than others and those kinds of people are all ready used to having tomatoes thrown at them. The future is looking bright
Say it ain't so Qblog!
I'd like to see the backbone project stay open.
Tracking the progress - or lack thereof - the AmQuix folks says more and than the most excited fan or critic.
Maybe QBlog can put just a little time into that one little corner of the blog?
"There really is nothing to criticize now except..."
I, for one, will take a wait-and-see attitude about that.
PW
I have been quiet since I'm is on a long vacation, not that there is nothing to report. I'm just finishing up a 7 week bicycle ride from LA to Boston (3,514 miles).
It is was not practical to take the computer with me to update the site during my vacation.
I see no reason to stop the Quixtar Blog. Since there is really no domain for the "Quixtarblog", Eric could just change it to the "Former Quixtar now Amway Blog" at www.webraw.com/amway......
The name change back to Amway just confirms what everybody already knew ---> Quixtar = Amway.
I wonder what all the people who said that "Quixtar is not Amway" will say now when they go back to Amway? But...but...but... Amway is not at all like Quixtar"... bawhahahahaha
Comtemplating "The End" seems a bit premature.
Quixtar Blog and Quixtar Forum should continue to thrive as a resource and community for anyone interested in Quixtar and Amway for years to come.
As for a change in title, Amway/Quixtar Blog would do nicely without any change to the current domain address.
It's nice to hear that your passion for the web and your job is working out so well. But, I still miss your input here.
Dave
"Those who deny freedom to others deserve it not for themselves." - Abraham Lincoln
Why do you, QBlog, deserve freedom?
I think this site will still have purpose. The answer will become apparent as times change.
Ima
Meh.
Before joining Quixtar, I went ahead and "googled" it online to see what "other qualified people" were saying about it. I came to this site, and noticed that all the bloggers were saying negative things about it. Then I decided to go to Better Business Bureau (www.bbb.org), a national organization which officially rates businesses. Then I went to www.thisbiznow.com to properly research the business. I researched more and found what the CEO's of big corporations like Circuit City and Sony are saying about this business. Suprisingly, this information was completely different from what was written here. I decided to listen to BBB and joined. Eight months later I have a steady income of around $300-$400 despite of having a weekly travelling job ( I am a consultant). The initial cost is way more than covered. The books and CD's helped me not just in business but my attitude towards life in general. I got promoted in my job.(By the way, they are not mandatory.) I wonder why the people who actually see some success don't come here and write, since this is a "Perception and Discussion Blog" and everything that is blogged is an opinion anyway, without any facts backing them up.
Keep the QuixtarBlog name. Add a by-line to the header so search engines will pick up either name.
I would like to see QuixtarBlog continue until my IBO relatives are saying, "No it's not Quixtar, it is Amway".
My greatest benefit from QuixtarBlog is reading the experiences of others with family members involved in this "business". The forum is invaluable for that.
they are adding 70 million in new incentives coming for Ibo’s and a boost and change in the compensation plan to help new Ibo’s be more profitable along with a hole new product line to build higher PV and incentive at the lower levels
Sometimes our ambots make debunking this business too easy. TOMMY - Where do you think the new incentive money is coming from? Could it be from over priced products sold primarily to it's distributors?
A "hole" is an overpriced product line and AMO system into which you pour money.
Hey, thank you for this blog after all. Yes, I have to admit that I had a GREAT time here, laughing, farting, peeing and crapping basically, making fun of you, at your own expense... not that you had something to loose, you have already been losing for a while anyway.
So, thank you for this blog. It really helps with the selection process by making the IBOs lives easier when it comes to them choosing who they select to work with. It truly is revealing for birds of the same feather flock together, winners with winners, losers with losers. Amen.
What do I do with all my tapes that talk about quixtar?
I too would like to see what happens with the namechange back to Amway. I'm not sure that the namechange will net significant results. I am hoping that the corporation is going to stick it to the kingpins though.
QBlog is denying freedom eh! I guess he does that right after drowning a sack of puppies on sundays.
Watch and see. What is so cool is that the business flat out works. All you negative bloggers focus way to much time on "How many Diamonds broke last year? How many new Emralds? Well look at the bottom line and the brass tax that Larsen always fails to talk about. How many new Platinums were there last year? 400 plus! How many new Q-12ers! Fact is just at the Platinum level one makes $30-$60,000 extra dollars. Well on top of a job, that is pretty darn cool and that is just in Quixtar dollars not so called tool monies and there will be more this year:) To all you wondering if this is working go search out your classes or workshops and study. Find the people who are making this work for them. You will find good hard working truthful people who will show you what they did and it is only getting better. This is not a scheme or a get rich quick thing. It takes work but your get rewarded for it if you can learn a few people skills and business needs. The WAVE is more than coming, start paddling for 08-09 and beyond. The ship has changed direction:) They can say waht ever they wants as onlookers from the sidelines but seriously. Get in the Game, nobody can talk from a bench or bleacher only those on the field.
QBlog-
Please don't stop this blog. Amway or Quixtar the name doesn't matter. It's the same multilevel marketing business. Just suspending the blog because Corp changed the name from Quixtar to Amway would not be a good idea.
TOMMY said: They can say waht ever they wants as onlookers from the sidelines but seriously. Get in the Game, nobody can talk from a bench or bleacher only those on the field.
Joe says: We are in the game. We're just playing in a different game. In the game you're playing, you're down 14,000 to 1 - the ratio of IBOs to diamonds.
JUST LIKE I SAID :) Why the deflections off the Platinum’s?
"Joe says: We are in the game. We're just playing in a different game. In the game you're playing, you're down 14,000 to 1 - the ratio of IBOs to diamonds."
Well do the IBO to Platinum ratio then what about the 400 plus new Platinum’s this year and 2-4000 platinum’s and above, shouldn’t that be enough. Hey I did not get in this business to be a Diamond. Many others do not either since we do not want that commitment. The plan I saw when I went to the work shop showed 32,000 a year. Platinum is dooooable and it only getting better, $30-60,000 plus a free trip all expenses paid is way cool for the amount of time put in as a ratio to a job. Get off the (Diamond band wagon Attack) that you call 1400:1. Yes breaking 6 of those things in say anything or line of work can be hard, but back to that again it out there to anyone that decide to pursue that too.
Actually the ratio of doing Diamond is way EXTREMELY higher than a kid wanting to play Major League Baseball but you do not smash a kid’s Dream of doing that which has many more obstacles in the way than going Diamond. Diamond is all in ones control when, the MLB is not since coaches people or agents stand in the way. Fact is get off Diamond. It is rarely even shown in the Classes we talk about anymore but yes it is and should be recognized. Only you old Amway dudes and Quixtar liberals keep talking about it.
Go Platinum, very, very, very dooooable again I say. (Fact) Thousands upon Thousand have done it and even more this year look at an Achieve yearly report. Plus (Fact) the Corporation is making Platinum even that much BETTER this up and coming fiscal year. Success in this business is always the proof in the pudding and 7500 with 1500 to 2500 side volume is more than GOOOOOOOD. The anti Amway Anti Quixtar people always look past all the success the Platinum’s have and the good income that we make. So why is that? I guess it always key to pick on the Big Dreamers rather that seeing the clear and easy facts that this simply works. Watch out this blog is starting to get to positive. As I have read. The positives articles usually get erased by the host so if it is not going there way. If one needs anything just refer to www.thisbiznow.com which is again only going to gain momentum. Have a great day:)
Tommy, if the ratio of platinums to IBO's remain the same, which is about 240 to 1, with 300,000 active IBOs, that means there are about 1,250 platinums in North America. Now think about this...really hard...if there aren't 400 new emeralds or diamonds, doesn't that mean there were 400 platinums that fell out of qualification over the course of a year? Maybe some of them moved up, but not all of them. Say 100 of them did, that would leave 300 platinums who fell out of qualification, or about 1 in 4! So much for residual income!
Speaking of platinum income, the average is closer to $30,000 a year than $60,000. It's a nice income, but one you can't retire on, especially when you factor in expenses and taxes. Figure in a 25% chance of dropping out of qualification, and is it really worth trying to build the business?
You go Tommy-boy!
Just go Platinum and show up all these losers on here. I'll be here cheering ya on!
"JUST LIKE I SAID :) Why the deflections off the Platinum’s?"
I choose to get my advice from a wealthy person who can help get wealthy - if I need advice from a broke person on how to be broke, you're first on the list Tommy!!
it doesn't make sense to end the blog just like it doesn't make sense to change the quixtar name back to amway. will they be changing the names of any of the other countries online sites back to amway? Qblog, never fully agreed with all of the view points expressed here but have enjoyed the opportunity to have your voice heard along with the others who have joined in to express. Good show.
What TOMMY doesn't realize is that even if he reaches platinum, he will be spending $25,000 a year on tools for net income of $5,000 per year.
QBlog,
This blog and the forum played a critical role in helping me deal with my experience in BWW, and I'm sure this is the case with many others. Your website is a very important resource.
Please do not close it down. There are many more people to help and inform.
After over 12 years of 5 and 6 nights a week, I could not have made it back to normal society if it was not for you and this forum. For this I thank you and I know others feel the same way. You provided a very valuable resource for many years and I cetainly hope you keep it going for a while longer as it will be interesting to see what happens in the next few years. However if it is truly the end, good luck and God Bless in all your future endevours.
dmm - you don't understand the plan. You could theoretically have 1000 new platinums, nobody drop out of qualification, and no new emeralds or diamonds.
The sales increase from 05 to 06 could allow for 200 new Q-12 platinums even if nobody dropped out of qualification, which quite obviously does happen.
You also quoted a 240 to 1 ratio of platinums to *all* IBOs and then picked an old "active" IBO number instead of the against the number IBOs. Why is it you feel the need to be so incredibly dishonest? With the 240 to 1 ratio, and around 1,000,000 IBOs, that'd be well over 4000 platinums.
You know this, but you keep repeating the same old lies.
TOMMY SAID "Actually the ratio of doing Diamond is way EXTREMELY higher than a kid wanting to play Major League Baseball but you do not smash a kid’s Dream of doing that which has many more obstacles in the way than going Diamond."
GEORGE Says: Poor analogy TOMMY. A Kid that wants to be a Major League Baseball Player, may not make it but along the way he has:
1) Involved his entire family with his quest, not leaving them at home with baby sitters five and six nights a week;
2) He as made friends of his team-mates and coaches that will remain his friends even if he leaves the game;
3) He will not have alienated every relative, friend, or classmate he ever has by hounding them to come to one of his games;
4) He will never have to ambush strangers at the Wal Mart store to get them to come watch him play;
5) Even if he is only moderately successfull, he can find a college that will help pay for his education, instead of having to make someone rich by purchasing that education;
6) If he is successful in his quest, his annuity payments will actually continue to be paid for the rest of his life without having to go back and play games periodically to get new fans to buy tickets;
6) If he fails, he will still have developed skills that can be used for something, even if it is only a Friday night beer league softball team; and
7) When he does decide that the quest is beyond his talents and skills, he will be left with great memories of the quest, close friends, newspaper clippings, and no debt or a truck full of useless tapes that say Quixtar instead of Amway (or vice versa).
Here's a little example of why the Amway business, to me personally, was not an acceptable thing to take part in:
Last year I went to Queens, NYC for an Angelo Nardone speech. It was $10 a head to get in, and lets say about 1000 people were in attendance. The ENTIRE speech was Angelo talking about how rich he was. He spent over 10 minutes talking about how many and what type of cars he likes to buy now that he can afford to. Not one moment was dedicated to how one can better sell products or expand your business. I drove 5 hours to listen to some guy talk about how rich he is for 2 hours? Some may call this inspiration, a chance to admire a rare level of success in life. I call it some guy who just picked up 10 grand in one night by defrauding 1000 people into thinking anything he has to say is beneficial towards building an Amway business. I was told these conferences weren't required, but were ESSENTIAL to successfully building a business. That laid out the expectation of business advice being conveyed, not hearing about a car collection. Yes, being that successful monetarily is inspiring, but I don't need to pay $10 dollars to fully enjoy the experience of inspiration. Jackass.
I realize that this is considered "anecdotal" evidence because it was my own, isolated experience. Perhaps somewhere out there, there's an honest diamond or crown working hard to help others succeed by selling them someone else's dreams about making more money than everyone and calling them losers. Half-truths and things with half-merits are tricky to understand. That's why the Amway business has persisted for 50+ years. Part of its claims are true. You can sell a lot of products, make 50,000 a year, and then give fast-talking speeches about success on stage and make a whole lot more money. But you have to ask yourself, do you really want to be one of those people who make loads of money by deluding hundreds of thousands of people into thinking they all have what it takes to endlessly hock soap, detergent, and $50-a-month vitamins for 5 years until they hit it big? And do so not by describing selling techniques and business methods but discussing how rich people are better than poor people, those lazy, undeserving poor people? It's the same as being some sleazy corporate lawyer for an insurance company that denies legitimate claims left and right. Or being a hollywood agent, or an investment banker. People like Amway diamonds exist all over - those who cash in on morally questionable business activities.
You just have to ask yourself one question: how much do I value integrity? Maybe being a teacher or a doctor in a free clinic may not pay all that much. You could've chosen to be that sleazy lawyer, cutthroat ari gold wannabe, gordon gecko carbon, or an Amway diamond, and it would be socially acceptable to some that you make more money than God doing something of less-than-pure morality. But maybe integrity is something you value more than a large bank account. Perhaps, to some, that's what success is.
Qblog,
You'll have to change your nickname to "Ablog" now...
Keep this blog up, it's a great resource. Cheers!
Guys, if you want serious business advice, check out credible sources. These forums are a bunch of useless opinions "make it look advice alike".
www.ftc.gov
www.bbb.org
www.thisbiznow.com
www.quixtarfacts.com
At some level, all opinions become useless. Some sooner than others.
Using the BBB as a source of business advice is like using Consumer Reports for retailing advice.
So your opinion of what constitutes a valid opinion obviously does not originate with you. Your opinion has been planted there via someone else's opinion.
Just my opinion, of course.
PW
"What do I do with all my tapes that talk about quixtar?"
LOL, that is the same question I asked after the switch from Amway. Your upline direct is probably wetting himself thinking about all the new tapes you'll need. Classic!!
This forum helped me AFTER I quit. It helped me see that my experience was not an isolated one, that the garbage spewed by the Amway Amos, is the SAME no matter where you are. It helped me reconcile with myself for wasting 6 years in A/Q
Omicron says: Guys, if you want serious business advice, check out credible sources. These forums are a bunch of useless opinions "make it look advice alike".
www.ftc.gov
www.bbb.org
www.thisbiznow.com
www.quixtarfacts.com
Joe says: What business advice do these websites give? I looked and there is no business advice posted anywhere.
"The sales increase from 05 to 06 could allow for 200 new Q-12 platinums "
Can u validate this??
the sales growth in North America i mean..
And do u really believe 1,000,000 IBO's?
Can't wait to see the hard data Tommy...
The truth is Tommy that Amway/quixtar in North America has been totally flat for the last decade plus...
i can validate my claims, can you?????????
And PS: this forum has been invaluable.
It has helped many many people;
May it linger forever.
"Joe says: What business advice do these websites give? I looked and there is no business advice posted anywhere."
Joe, stop looking at the fancy pictures on there and actually read the articles..
Joecool18, you truly want to know what advice these 4 websites give? They basically say "yes, this is a genuine, awesome business opportunity, not a scam and you are free to choose whether you want to pursue it or not". That's all! But, I'm sure that you are more intelligible than your question. You just play the fool albeit, a fool who sounds intelligible.
First of all, great and useful site/forum!!! Keep it up.
A friend of mine remembered me after a few years of disappearance. We met, talked about a lot of things; for the most part he spoke enthusiastically of his involvement with Quixtar during the last 2.5 yrs.
So I setup an apt with him for next week; I took his DVD and some other info and promised to go through them.
I have to say that I am a skeptic (naturally) to these kind of business schemes. I've read some of your comments here, and respect everyone’s opinion.
My case: I have a well-paid job, pays the bills, save a little bit of money too, but I am always looking for something else...preferably a home-based business.
For an average Joe like me, my family might be spending $4000-$5000/month (home/car loans, groceries, shopping, entertainment, day care, etc) maybe less, maybe more...all I know is that I can pay for it.
Now, will this Quixtar/Amway business bring me more money if (1) I spend 10-15 hrs a week to this, (2) do most of my shopping online, (3) go to their meetings maybe once-twice a year? Can it make me financially secured in 5-6years given I meet all 3 criteria.
Thanks in advance...
I agree with Dave, the name Amway/Quixtar covers it. It's your blog so of course it's up to you to end it. I would miss it. I believe it could help many more people because the company is likely just changing the name, not the tactics of their AMOs.
"yes, this is a genuine, awesome business opportunity, not a scam"
If this is your definition of business advice, you are in more trouble than you know.
You might want to get some advice (things like calculating profit/loss, managing cash flow, establishing 'drop-dead' goals and a timeline, and how to determine reasonable overhead compared to income) from someone who has no vested interest in your continued participation.
I'm in skepticjoe's boat. I attended my first meeting last Thursday here in Atlanta. My sponsor drove in to talk to to me and my wife Sunday. We were amped to start up after our discussion.
We decided to do a little more research and found some legality issues that concern us. We do VERY MUCH value our integrity, but on the outside, I do not see the immorality of the business model. What is immoral about sending more volume to big companies? This is a capitalist society.
I do see issues with hitting the requirement to sell 50PV at retail, because from what I've heard, the people I've talked to stress bringing more people on than they do getting "customers" to buy at retail. However, this is a logistics question that doesn't answer the moral question, and I am much more concerned with the morality and legality right now than the logistics and how the parts all move together.
Everything is refundable, even the $150 administrative fee to become an IBO.
jbramsey1@yahoo.com -- feel free to email, will check back on this forum.
Omicron, thisbiznow and quixtarfacts are Alticor websites, of course they's going to promote quixtar as being great.
The FTC and BBB don't say anything to promote quixtar nor do they have advice.
If I'm wrong, post a link.
This website should be terminated due to the ignorant, unintelligent and misleading opinions of people who failed to follow the proven system. Everybody just needs to quit their whining and just GO DIAMOND!!!
Hi skepticjoe,
Why don't you call out the FTC at 1-877-FTC-HELP (382-4357) or MBNA, or Barnes & Nobles, or Primus and so on to find out what these businesses have to say about Quixtar? That way, it will save you from a lot of frustration and conflicting opinions that abound on these types of forums.
SKEPTICJOE asked: Now, will this Quixtar/Amway business bring me more money if (1) I spend 10-15 hrs a week to this, (2) do most of my shopping online, (3) go to their meetings maybe once-twice a year? Can it make me financially secured in 5-6years given I meet all 3 criteria.
1. First of all, to make the kind of money in the plan, it will not take 10-15 hours. If the meeting you attended was run by a motivational group, the person who showed you the plan most likely spends way more than 15 hours on the business if they have reached any level of achievement. (Even "serious" IBOs who unfortunately haven't gone very far spend lots more time than that.) If you stay in long enough, you will find that you are expected to sell out completely to the business and practically let it take over your life for you to reach the levels of success shown.
2. Think about it. You cannot make a profit from buying stuff. You may get a rebate, but no company, including Quixtar, soon to become Amway, is suicidal enough to give you more money than it takes from you. Like Quixtar, you must make a profit by SELLING stuff for more than you bought it. Or, you could amass a group of IBOs below you who are buying stuff but not making money unless they too are retailing enough to make a profit. Sure, you could make a profit in that scenario from bonuses from your downlines' purchases, but how would your downline be doing? Plus, were you told that you had to sell a minimum amount to customers before you can receive bonuses from the purchases of your downline each month? Because that's in the rules.
3. You will be told never to miss a meeting - major functions (usually 3 or 4 a year, cost of about $100, not including travel or hotel), open meetings (cost is usually below $10), monthly seminars (may be about $10), and others . One or two will not be enough if you are to be financially secure through Quixtar, according to them. You will also be expected to subscribe to a weekly CD and book of the month. Also, the higher pins in the business make quite a bit of money from the sales of these "tools" and the meetings. You should be aware of this. Will you be able to become financially secure (diamond) after 5 - 6 years of all this (you'll have to show the plan, of course)? Some people say yes, but ask your potential sponsor how many IBOs are in this group, i.e., system, and how many new diamonds there were last year.
Remember: in general, they will probably start out letting you do your own thing, but with time, more and more will be revealed and more will be expected of you than was let on at the beginning.
Note: my statements are based on my experience, but they seem to be consistent with the experiences of many others.
Hope that helped. Good luck!
CANTDECIDE said: Everything is refundable, even the $150 administrative fee to become an IBO.
It actually costs $48 (perhaps plus some small additional fees) to become an IBO. Any cost above that is optional. Were you told that it would cost $150? If so, how's that for integrity!
What were you told you would receive with the $150? Quixtar products or training materials? Note that money is made off the training materials by higher up IBOs.
Perhaps you should come over to the forum and ask whatever questions you have for more information.
Good luck!
Rara:
My sponsor truly has presented this as risk-free and pressure-free, and I'm a smart, objective person, I can see that it truly is risk-free and I have felt no pressure thus far to do this.
I have asked him every loaded and difficult question from my research on the web and he's had a great, honest answer for each one. I asked him about the $150. We have the option of the $100 package or the $150 package. Each is specifically broken down. This includes the (annual) $48 fee to become an IBO (he broke this all down for me) as well as Virtual Office (the online tool that helps to track everything including income tax, etc). It also includes about $100 of samples from the different "exclusive vendors".
It's a 1-year 100% satisfaction guarantee. If we aren't happy with the program between now and year, we can quit. The $150 is refunded to us, and the samples we just consider a gift.
No one makes any money off of the initial startup costs because this ventures into illegal territory.
The initial costs do NOT include educational materials. My sponsor has made it clear that he is going to loan all educational materials to me that he has already purchased because he has an incentive for me to do well. And he has, I have 8 CDs, a DVD, and a book that he has given me.
The training sessions are $3-5, depending on the cost of renting out a place to hold it, and the conferences are I think 2-3 times/year $100 plus travel expenses, all tax deductible. He has STRESSED to me that these meetings are recommended but NOT mandatory, only there to help you should you need them. In fact, he paralleled the meetings to going to class in college -- if you don't go, you're not going to get much out of it.
All in all, I'm a very conservative, very objective person. I would never do something I think would be a risk to me and my wife's livelihood. I am not a risk taker. And honestly, I'm not seeing the kind of bad that you are all portraying.
Anonymous diamond writes: This website should be terminated due to the ignorant, unintelligent and misleading opinions of people who failed to follow the proven system. Everybody just needs to quit their whining and just GO DIAMOND!!!
Joe writes: Are you refering to the IBOs who post here? I agree, they should stop thei uneducated whining and go diamond.
Omicron, thanks for the no response, it just proves my point.
This site really helped me "come out of the cult" after 20 years. I don't think I could have done it, otherwise.
Thanks, Qblog.
I'm going to call my Barnes and Noble today and ask them what they can tell me about Quixtar. Better yet, I'll just go there and ask inperson. I wonder what they'll tell me.
So, Omicron, what did Barnes and Noble tell YOU about Quixtar when YOU called? No, I'm not asking you what your upline said, I'm asking you what YOUR OWN DUE DILIGENCE has revealed. Did they mention the letter they sent the big Q, asking them to tell their IBOs to stop stalking people in B&N stores?
Did MBNA say that Q was a good credit risk? And if so, how does Q's business model (manufacturing of consumer products and distribution via a commission-only sales force) compare to YOUR Q business model (commission based sales of generally small-ticket consumables)?
Think, man. Think. For yourself.
Hi Jeff:
I am also a very objective person, and I decided that when I joined the business that I would give it a fair chance, do my own investigating and not even look at what was online. What I found was the following:
-Of all the IBOs I knew, I was the ONLY one who took the time to truely understand every dollar in the bonus system. I discovered the obvious, that the only way to really make money is to sell products (and consistantly).
-Diamonds and above know this, that's why they built a pyramid to sell tools to. They created a market and are selling a product. This is business, though morally(and legally) questionable business.
-I couldn't in good conscience sell the products under the rules set forth in sections 4.2 through 4.3.1 of the Rules of Conduct. But this is my personal moral dilemma.
-A pyramid is doomed to fail, I was taught the 1-9-6-3 structure to hit platinum. Think of scale, if each at the bottom does the same then we'd have:
ME-9-6-3-(9-6-3)-(9-6-3)-(9-6-3). Of course this could never be reached since this pyramid includes more people then earth.
-Success does not come from franchising, success must first be achieved – then franchising becomes the tool which multiplies that very success. If one franchises a business on potential future revenues – this becomes virtual money, virtual business, and quite unsustainable. What differentiates good business from a scheme is the order in which success and franchising happen. When one franchises and franchises a non-profiteable business until that person achieves success – then that one should be treated as a criminal and not as an entrpreneur.
-It's not all tax deductible. And what's greater, tax deductions are not a reason to go in business..if you're going to spend your hard earned income as a 'cost of doing business', then make sure that business will pay back that cost (e.g, while you're there sign a contract with a bar to sell them 20 cases of XS/month - which of course they are not allowed to display or you'll lose your IBO status without refund.)
Jeff,
You left out the third option: not buying the optional product packs at all. I feel this is one of the longest running unethical scams the IBO's use to to get immediate PV. The cost to join Quixtar is only $48. The product packs are 100% optional and not required to purchase in order to start your business. The kits come with PV, so your upline is making a profit off of your startup. If your upline did not make it clear to you that the product packs were optional, or if they told you they don't make any money off of your startup, they are lying.
PS. Keep the forum around. Omicron makes it obvious that people are still getting abused and perpetuating the scam.
Oh and Jeff,
You said:
"No one makes any money off of the initial startup costs because this ventures into illegal territory. "
To join quixtar (as I previously mentioned) only cost $48. You can add the OPTIONAL product packs to make the cost $100 or $150. Those product packs come with PV. PV is what makes you and your upline profit and also calculates the how much profit you make. If your upline makes PV off your start up, then they are making a profit off of you.
How can that be when they told you; "We don't make any profit from your startup, that would be illegal."
Please, look into it for yourself. If you have signed up already, go look at the PV you gained from the starter pack. Also, you can go throug the motions of signing up an IBO and you will see that the product packs are listed as options.
Lastly, call Quixtar themselves and ask customer service if the product packs are required and ask them if your upline makes money off of them.
Du your due diligence, and Please report back what you find out.
~Chris
inquiringmind said,
"I'm going to call my Barnes and Noble today and ask them what they can tell me about Quixtar. Better yet, I'll just go there and ask inperson. I wonder what they'll tell me."
CK said,
"So, Omicron, what did Barnes and Noble tell YOU about Quixtar when YOU called? "
...!!! Are you sure you even know who you are talking to?! I swear, it makes me deeply wonder how you could possibly be in such a sorry state and besides, be proud of it and spreading your disease to others.
"Think, man. Think. For yourself."
Yes, I am thinking... quite a bit.
I believe you will see great things from quixtar/amway. They never have said that amway wasn't part of this. Keep the sight to see what happens. Market america is just another amway so why not pick on them too.
Omicron, you drank too much kool aid.
ibofightback, of course there could be a higher number of platinums qualifying than dropping out if the ratio of platinums to IBO's stay the same, and the number of IBO's go up. Problem is, Amway doesn't have to release a lot of numbers, and the numbers we do get need to extrapolated to find total active IBOs. But one thing I do find funny is when talking about average income, ibofightback/insider likes to claim there is a huge number of IBO's considered "active" that do nothing, driving the average down. In fact, he likes to use a number around 300,000 active IBOs, if I remember correctly. But now, when it suits him, the number of IBO's are higher.
The reality is, even if you double the number of IBO's to 600,000, keeping the same ratio, without increasing the total active IBO's, there is still a 16% chance of not re-qualifying platinum every year. To tranlate, that is about 1 in every 6 to 7 platinums.
But, I still like the 300,000 number better. Why? Because 30 years ago, the number Amway had for North American IBO's was about 300,000. And five years ago, that number was about 360,000. Maybe Quixtar had a huge growth in IBO's the last 5 years that is completely atypical. But I doubt it. Wouldn't you think there would be some sort of press release announcing this astronomical growth from a business that hasn't been growing in North America for a long, long time?
A useless diversion, Omicron. Re-read your 7-4 post, wherein you encourage Skepticjoe to call, among others, B&N.
I'm just asking you what the results of that call were, since a wise person would already know the answer to the challenge before he/she posed it.
Which leads me to the conclusion that either a) another person posted that reply using your screen name, b) you are so addled by your participation in the AMOs you have forgotten what you wrote, or c) you're simply not a wise person.
And to what alleged sorry state are you referring? Care to clarify with proof, or even reasonable evidence?
A sorry state, indeed, when one cannot respond to an issue, but instead resorts to red herrings and personal (not to mention unfounded and erroneous) attacks.
The last defense of the indefensible. Carry on.
Thanks to all who replied to my message.
I've decided that this business does not meet the 3 simple criteria I set up from the beginning, even to try it out. Therefore no thank you.
Good luck to everyone.
By the way, for those looking up the numbers, we know Amway/Quixtar made just over $1billion in sales. AmQuix also states it pays about 35% of money it makes as bonus money to IBOs. We also know the average monthly income for active IBO is $115. From these numbers, we can extrapolate approximately how many North American IBO's there are.
Rounding up to the nearest hundred million, say total bonus paid out to IBO's last year was $400million. We also know that average yearly income to IBO's was $1380. Do the math, rounding up to the nearest hundred thousand, and viola, we get 300,000 IBOs!!!
Of course, with the AmQuix given drop out rate of 67% IBO's who do not renew every year, it is difficult to state at any given time just how many IBO's there are. They are always coming and going.
So while ibofightback is correct in stating the total number of IBO's could be rising, hence so is the total number of platinums, until AmQuix releases new numbers, we just don't know. Again, with the steadiness of NA IBO's hovering around 300,000 for over 30 years, chances are, a meteoric rise is not probable. And if it was happening, you would think AmQuix would be trumpetting it, instead of the name change.
So, once again, we are left to guess there are about 1,200 platinums in North America. Now, the question once again is, how many new emeralds and diamonds come from these platinums? Why you ask? Because if we know that number, we know the rate platinums fall out of qualification, given 400 new platinums a year. Are there over 100 new emeralds and up that come from the pool of 1200 platinums? If there are 100, again, that means the 400 new platinums replace that 100, plus 300 more platinums that failed to requalify. Or, once again, 1 in 4 platinums do not requalify!
Ok ibofightback, got any more recent numbers we can use?
Omicron and all the others...if you actually read thisbiznow and what other companies are saying, it's quite clear what they mean. They're saying a partnership where Quixtar sells their goods makes good business sense. It means higher sales for them. Every testimonial from outside business leaders on that website discusses exactly that...good business decisions for the companies to partner with quixtar to increase sales. None of those "outside sources" are referencing the IBO opportunity itself as being a good business decision. The companies know there's a built-in market of PV hungry IBOs who will buy...who cares who buys the product, under what sales method? As long as sales increase, Barnes and Noble and others are happy. I'm surprised so many people fall for that site and that it's actually promoting the IBO opportunity. You don't even need to read between the lines...just read the lines. It's right there.
WOW!
You negative guys are funny. Go out and do something to lift others up. If you see the positive guys do not respond so fast or as much it is because we do not have time to complain or gossip on line. It is a waste of TIME. We are to busy out giving or serving with our time since this is to good to sit at home and waste time bickering to people with out a dream on a computer who can not see the benefits or the possibility of hopeful potential. This business has withstood the test of time for over 30 plus years with many people throwing punches and low blows. What is awesome is it is only getting better because Champions get back up after being punched at. This business is only getting better. The critics will never lift people up or offer solutions that take work. If you have something better let us know. If not stop with the negative words. I have a great day time JOB, but this Business and Team has showed me income and more intangible benefits that I can not get from a great daily job that many people go to all day for. This business is extra credit and fun if you are hanging with people who if you hang with them long enough you will see there heart. If you feel the heart is right then the sky is the limit if not find another los or another opportunity which more than likely will only be fulfilled by people who build you up. Remember building this business is like watching an Eagle. If you watch once long enough you always see them going about Leading but you always see little birds attacking or bugging them all the time, but they keep on keeping on. They usually just fly higher until the pest can not hang with them by living with integrity. This is a great Team powered by a good business.
dmm, it's no wonder you "like" the 300,000 number better - because it's the one you picked to try and support your argument.
Personally I try to work with facts rather than just numbers I "like".
You maybe should read more than just this site, you can start with Myth: No growth in IBOs in 30 years
But that's beside the point. You're using a percentage of the total number of *all IBOs* and multiplying it by the number *active IBOs* any body with more than one neuron knows that's deceitful. Which unfortunately isn't unusual here.
Quixar is not changing its name. THis is a false rumor. I am an IBO who, with just 10 clients has retired at the age of 21. For any of you nay-sayers out there, who has tried to start their own business? and how hard did you work at it before you quit? Its not a get rich quick scheme and MLM is illegal in the US. I used to work for an MLM called Target and Safeway.
BEST COMPENSATION PLAN PERIOD!,
I Noticed a few of my positive posting were not published. Hmmmm I wonder why? I can only try it again. The point! Why the deflection off the PLatinums. The guys above talked about the odds. Humm pretty cool. If that is a constant then that means almost every major Neighborhood or sub-division across America will have gosh 2-3-5 Platinums in it. Wow that is pretty cool. Also you are not talking about the 20% increase to PV in the fall and just increased Platinum bonus that is $10,000 now which already made the switch to $20,000 starting Sept 1. Well guys watch out. Like we said before your voice was heard and NOW this is the best paid out compensation program in any MLM bar none. So are you still going to just complain or are you going to try to build a Honest business which in most cases allows you more freedom than most jobs. O i forgot you can still do this with a full time JOB. Just AMWAY or ACCESS or QUIXTAR dollars this a new game pushing a $100,000 a year just at PLATINUM. What is cool is you can throw stones or not believe but WATCH and see. The buzz has started:)
Platinums and above on the T**M have been ordered not to discuss the upcoming name change with the "bag holders" and to refer questions concerning the name change to their upline.
Actually, ibofightback, the numbers in your link are consistant with mine after you figure out the drop-out rate. Remember, 2/3 of IBO's quit in a given year. Figure a total of nearly 900,000, after the quit rate, you are left with (drumroll please), 300,000 active IBO's.
The part about income is tougher to determine, because an IBO who was active for six months and then quit will more likely make more than the new IBO who just signed up.
Sorry, ibofightback, myth confirmed.
Tommy - how exactly do you "lift people up" in your business?
insider/ibofightback: If quixtar says they have about 300,000 IBOs, what credible information do you possess to make a claim that's different from the corporation?
Gary Kagey writes: Quixar is not changing its name. THis is a false rumor. I am an IBO who, with just 10 clients has retired at the age of 21. For any of you nay-sayers out there, who has tried to start their own business? and how hard did you work at it before you quit? Its not a get rich quick scheme and MLM is illegal in the US. I used to work for an MLM called Target and Safeway.
Joe says: Sure you're retired. It's comical when IBOs like yourself try to pass off such tall tales. Thanks for the good laugh.
I drove 5 hours to listen to some guy talk about how rich he is for 2 hours? Some may call this inspiration, a chance to admire a rare level of success in life. I call it some guy who just picked up 10 grand in one night by defrauding 1000 people into thinking anything he has to say is beneficial towards building an Amway business.
Your analysis is of that is 100% correct on that one Jon.
Don't take down the website QBlog. Just have someone else help run the site when your busy with other things in life if you have too. I wasn't hurt that badly by my involvement in this scam but I consider myself lucky for remaining skeptical and not buying the crap from diamonds and so forth.
"Quixar is not changing its name. THis is a false rumor."
Gary since you have been a good downline and have quit reading or listening to anything that has not been approved by your puppetmaster, uh upline. Here is the quote from the article that QBlog quoted. Direct-sales giant Alticor Inc. confirmed Wednesday that it will scrap its 7-year-old Quixtar Inc. label during the next 1 1/2 to two years and focus on rebuilding its Amway brand in North America.
For Tommy "This business is only getting better" Yep, that's why Amway's Sales in 1998 were $7Billion, and now almost 10 years later, Quixtar's sales have exploded to $1 Billion. This baby is exploding.
WOW Tommy,
I'm sure glad you're such an "uplifter" of people - so how many $10,000 charity checks have you written out so far this year??
Don't worry, we all know the answer.
Turkeys always like to pretend they're Eagles.
To Gary Kagey:
firstly: I first heard that quixtar was going back to Amway from my cousin who's still in the business...he only gets his information from upline. Then again, you wouldn't be allowed to believe what he's saying since he's crossline. Oh well, good ol' information control. That said, he didn't say it was going back to amway...he had another name which incorporated the name amway somehow. His details were as vague as when he tried to explain compensation
second: MLM's are not illegal, pyramid schemes are illegal. MLM's play tricks in order to be 'legal' and get around being called a pyramid....such as amquix's 70% rule (which everyone in my previous upline either didn't know, or laughed at).
all this negativity is an act of jealousy and envy.........admit it guys
You guys are just mad because........you don't think you can DO IT! that's all ......admit it
To Skepticjoe,
2000 hours a year until you are 65-70 years old vs. the life you dreamt about!!!...... enough said, go look at the plan again
Check out the Kate message to WWDB about the name change we would love to hear!
http://www.amquix.info/sounds/rp_no_more_quixtar.mp3
(of course it is a parody and not an original)
griningibo says: To Skepticjoe,
2000 hours a year until you are 65-70 years old vs. the life you dreamt about!!!...... enough said, go look at the plan again
Joe says: That's better than doing that plus 12 hours a week in quixtar.
To griningibo:
If you read my previous post you'd see I openly admit I didn't want to do it. Now whether I could or couldn't is another story, I felt guilty showing the plan knowing I was misrepresenting money that wasn't there. Could I continue to lie and try to deceive my FRIENDS building false dreams??? You're absolutely right -> I couldn't do it.
Don't worry about me though, if 95.8 of people quit within 5 years (http://www.merchantsofdeception.com/files/TheAmquixSmokingGun.pdf), then statistically you are likely to be an opponent of the oppertunity in due time....especially if you keep reading 'negative' sites like this one.
STAY TUNED, THE $H!^ IS ABOUT TO HIT THE FAN!
Im just curious as to a few things. If quixtar is such a "scam" then why is it supported by the Better Business Bureau , Federal Trade comission and huge name companies such as microsoft, disney, shop.com. I really see no such problems and as for the resignation of this diamond IBO it is due to illegal "stacking " within his business.
As far as im concerned i buy my products, they come to my front door, i get paid, so where is the scam???
From one very curious IBO
Charl, the better business bureau and the FTC are regulatory agencies. They do not endorse any companies. In fact the FTC in the past has fined Amway for exaggerated income claims.
Got any proof that the BBB, FTC, or Microsoft endorses quixtar?
Nobody has proven any of these silly claims yet.
Enjoyed reading your blog. There are always arguments to both sides of this somewhat weird business.
All I know is that yes, the products are extremely expensive and I for one can't afford to use them on a daily basis.
I also know that my B.I.L. puts a lot of time, energy, and money going to all these functions when he's got small children at home. It seems like his time could be better spent with his family.
I know one of these speakers just got paid $5000 for one 2 hour speech and he did 3 of them in one day. That's where people are making the money, not on the stupid products that aren't any better than what I can buy in the store.
Now I've been invited to a function so I can be "saved". What does this business have to do with god?
"All things must pass
All things must pass away
All things must pass
None of lifes strings can last
So, I must be on my way
And face another day"
- George Harrison
Posted by: Scott N | June 25, 2007 4:45 AM