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April 1, 2007
Business vs. Personal Finances
By Drew in A/QMOs
When I first joined Quixtar I asked the same question of my sponsor that many prospects ask: "How much do you make?" I of course received a response that is quite similar to the one given to those other prospects: "I don't reveal my personal finances." This of course should have been a red flag for me from the jump, but I guess you live and you learn.
Since leaving Quixtar time and again I have seen Quixtar IBOs give their reasons for why they don't feel it is necessary to tell any prospect how much money they make, and to be completely candid, not one of their reasons has convinced me that they should not do it. In the end it always goes back to "It's personal", and I am not buying it.
Some of you may know that when I left Quixtar my wife and I started other businesses with modest success and as of right now I have a side business that I run. I have never considered my personal household income to be related to my business income. The amount of money that is brought into my household to live off of is certainly a private matter, unless of course I am asking for a loan of some sort. I would also agree my business income is also a private matter except in the following cases:
1. I am asking someone to invest in my business.
2. I am seeking a loan based on my business income.
3. I am claiming I can teach someone to run a successful business.
As you may have guessed already number 3 is the clincher here. According to the Quixtar Rules of Conduct, and how the plan is shown, the sponsor is going to teach his/her new downline how to build a Quixtar business. It would only make sense that if you are telling someone you can teach them to build a business that you would be able to show some measure of success in building a business yourself.
Put yourself in the prospect's shoes for just a moment. You have two IBOs who have both been in for 6 months. Both are dressed sharp, very charismatic and really know quite a bit about this plan they are showing you. So which one would you rather learn from? To hard to tell you say? Well now let's say one of them is making $1000 a month pure profit and the other guy is making $10. Now which one would you rather learn from? Makes the decision a bit easier doesn't it?
Some IBOs have said that you can tell by looking at the "fruit on the tree." Actually I am not quite sure what "fruit on the tree" means exactly since the fruit always seemed to change to fit the situation. But, for this article the fruit is going to mean the car they drive, the house they own, etc, etc. This reasoning of course has it's flaws….actually MAJOR flaws.
The biggest flaw is the only evidence you are being given is the perception that they want you to have. Fruit on the tree isn't based on any hard facts, it is simply a person's life packaged the way they want to present it to you. You have no idea what produced the funds to buy that house, car, watch, suit, dress, etc, etc. Fruit on the tree is all about showbiz, and not real business.
Now if you were to take a look at income statements for their business you would have a clear factual picture of their business, and what kind of business people they are. You would be able to see what kind of income to expense ratio they have, and proper records would also show what kind of net profit they are making each year. Things that can give someone a strong indication as to whether they want to do any business with this person.
In the end many IBOs will always fight against having to show any kind of income statement citing that it is personal information. So it appears there are some IBOs who have yet to figure out there is a difference between personal income and business income, and in business there are perfectly legitimate times that a person will request to look at your records, and my advice to anyone looking into this business is that if someone is not willing to discuss with your their measure of financial success all the while trying to get you to join their "business" team, politely say "No thanks" and go find a serious business person instead.
Comments
WHAT?
I came here hoping for another great QBlog April Fools joke, and I find common, solid business advice.
O tempora, O mores!
All and especially to Drew,
Thanks for letting me post on here. I've learn alot and it will definitly help me in alot of ways for my business. I feel that now I have to concentrate on my business and family. Drew, if you didn't hear it from anybody else first, you'll hear it from me. I'm sorry for whatever anybody have done to you and your family with this business. I have alot of respect for you and what you are doing. Thanks for the information. May God hold and keep you!
~Eric Bell
I do not necessarily disagree with you here, Drew, but I would point out that: according to Quixtar, the ultimate responsibility of training a new IBO is on the Platinum of the organization. And if that platinum is not profitable, and is hesitant in disclosing success in this business, it should draw concern. My advise: ask to see the records of an active upline IBO that has been in for over a year... less than a year: I give the IBO a break allowing for a "learning curve".
Great post Drew!!!
1. I am asking someone to invest in my business.
2. I am seeking a loan based on my business income.
3. I am claiming I can teach someone to run a successful business.
In the above list I would like to add one more scenario where it is acceptable to ask for business information. "When you are expanding business and seeking new business partners". It is on the sames lines as your first option i.e. Seeking investors, but a business partner would be more actively involved in business expansion (Quixtar IBO) than an investor who is rather passive
"You do nothing to encourage others to pursue an opportunity that they would like to learn more about. Why don't you just shut up; you are a moron."
Is this an April Fools post? Well just in case it is not I will give my response. I am not here to encourage anyone to pursue anything. I am here to encourage them to be smart about pursuing it. I am sure you would like me to shut up but it isn't going to happen.
I find it interesting though that you don't like sound advice being given to those who would read this. Apparently the rumor that IBOs like to only tell prospects what they like them to hear is true...at least in your case.
"WHAT?
I came here hoping for another great QBlog April Fools joke, and I find common, solid business advice."
Sorry Frankie, I was going to do one but this is still Qblog's blog and I figured he started the jokes so I would let him keep it going if he was going to. I'm still just a lowly invited author ;)
"I have alot of respect for you and what you are doing. Thanks for the information. May God hold and keep you!"
Good Luck Eric, go get em!
"I do not necessarily disagree with you here, Drew, but I would point out that: according to Quixtar, the ultimate responsibility of training a new IBO is on the Platinum of the organization."
Well my copy of the rules is a couple of years old, but from what I read the sponsor is responsible, but if not up to the task then the Platinum can and will take over.
So I agree with you in the sense of who is going to be doing the teaching. If the sponsor plans to let the Platinum do it, then most certainly the Platinum should be opening the books, however if the sponsor plans to do it all he/she should have their books open as well.
"It is on the sames lines as your first option i.e. Seeking investors, but a business partner would be more actively involved in business expansion (Quixtar IBO) than an investor who is rather passive"
You are right, a business partner can be seen along the same lines as an investor, but more active. Just another example of why business finances are not personal when it comes to doing business.
IBO: I make a great living via quixtar! You wouldn't believe how much I make!
Prospect: So how much do you make?
IBO: That's none of your business.
This is nothing but opinionated shite. You don't want to be in Quixtar? Fine. You don't like the tactics? Fine. I'm brand spanking new and I don't care how quickly my upline started to make money. I do actually know in detail how his business is going (very well) because I started just a week or so after him, but why the bloody hell should he tell me what his businees is making if he doesn't want to? I don't care if he is offering me an opportunity; any normal human can decide for themselves if the opportunity in and of itself is good enough to jump onboard, no matter how quickly it worked for the proposer. If somebody doesn't like that I won't divulge my income, I've got nothing against them. I just happen to have nothing to offer them either. Do what you want and let others do the same. That's the problem with "critics" - they're all about telling people about apparent dishonesty and pressure, etc... but they don't say "and by the way, I'm biased too and I am pressuring you to stop doing something that might actually appeal to you." Seriously, whoever said it already, you're right, these bloggers are morons.
My wife and I also can relate to Drew and his wife. We were glad we got in and glad when we got out and started another business upon exiting the Quixtar opportunity. Within 90 days of registering our state and federal forms, our LLC earned over $70K. It covered almost all of the debt and lost "investment" from our experience in Quixtar, and allowed me create additional jobs.
In real business, corporate business, before we sign contracts with clients...IT'S STANDARD OP'S TO SHOW OUR PROSPECTIVE CLIENTS OUR BUSINESS CASHFLOW, OUR DAILY/WEEKLY/MONTHLY/ANNUAL CALCULATED REVENUES, OUR PROFIT/LOSS STATEMENTS, AND OUR PROJECTED PROFIT FOR THE FISCAL YEAR BEFORE THEY SIGN ANY BINDING AGREEMENTS. I remember requesting similar information from my upline emerald when I registered and he proceeded to question my manhood.
I never had a problem with the Fruits of Labor aspect because I don't have an issue with nice timepieces, sports or luxury vehicles, big homes, etc so long as you don't have to finance it. The problem that I had was the glorification of these things. That's idolatry man. If someone goes into debt for the obtainment of a nice thing then they're most likely trying to be someone that they're not. Such was the case with my upline Emerald before his business shrunk into a Sapphire, then back to Ruby. He had to get another job or go into "consulting" just to make the payment of his 18k gold bracelet, Omega Seamaster, Lexus, and avoid foreclosure on his 200K mortgage. Nice things are nice to have and enjoy, but you can't take them with you when you die.
Bottom line is that you'll know a phony when you meet one. A truly rich man doesn't take pride in his riches and doesn't have to promote the fact that he's rich. Every decent and civilized businessman is honest and forward with all business related information that is asked of him. However, it's no one's business to ask what my/your personal take home income is. That's a question that every decent and civilized person should avoid asking. When a person asks a potential business parter or "mentor" what their annual business net revenue is, they ought not to hide it or lie...that's bad business.
If you don't think for yourself, then you get what you deserve.
Yeah, "fruit of the tree" is kind of the LAST thing you want to look at as a reliable indicator of how successful somebody is. It is surprisingly easy to get a ton of credit and buy a bunch of nice stuff, then worry about how you will pay for it later. As Thomas Stanley wrote, most millionaires are not conspicuous spenders, and saving and investing is at least as important to your financial success as the amount of money you earn. This runs absolutely counter to the Am/Quix philosophy of making ostentatious displays of wealth.
If somebody is asking you to get involved in their business, then the amount of money they make is not personal. It's research.
Symbol that your website has lived on past its time and should be shut down:
Instead of the annual April Fool's joke, you have another redundant article asserting the same concept that has been discussed for many years on many different websites (and quite frankly more succinctly and effectively).
I agree with Drew that in a complete business sense, profits should be disclosed. We have always disclosed our monthly income, our monthly profit & shown prospects our checks. Nothing to write home about but certainly a fair profit for the effort put forth.
Both realistic as well as potential profit should be shown. If you are too new to show your new downline this, then point to a growing upline. When you tell the prospect the potential product-related profit in this business, you should also be fully prepared to SHOW them exactly what steps they need to take in order to make that potential profit.
As far as system-related profit, we knew that the Platinums & above made money off of the system. However, as Anonymous stated, we too, believe that they should. After all, they are putting in extra time, extra effort, extra energy, their stories, their experiences, hosting regionals or second-look meetings, etc. They are earning that extra income. We have no problem with that. It is like a 'bonus' income that is associated with this business - much like stock options for the ambitious corporate worker. The harder you work & the smarter you work, the higher up you go...therefore, the more you make.
I do agree with the critics that if the potential system profit could be outlined for the new business builder, that would allay quite a bit of skepticism. I would love to see it as well!
This is what I do know guys: this business welcomes everyone. All races, genders, ethnicities, faiths (or non-faith!), ages, capacities, income levels, etc.
Not everyone who is involved, believes in God. They don't have to in order to build a relatively successful business. But I will tell you this: whether you believe in HIM or not, GOD has HIS hand all over this business! I am more convinced of this than ever before....especially after the Leadership Conference we just attended. Wow.
Yes, alot of inspirational stories, motivating speeches, edification, praise, gratitude, etc. But also alot of good, solid teaching. On retailing. On profit building. On prospecting & building your customer list. On how to approach & what to say & how to 'close the sale' in a retail situation. Excellent training. Excellent advice. Excellent mentorship.
Excellent business opportunity.
Anon
"This is nothing but opinionated shite."
I am going to go out on a limb here and assume you don't want to be added to the Qblog fan newsletter.
"You don't want to be in Quixtar?"
Not especially, no.
"You don't like the tactics?"
Sorry, just something about sucking people for every dime they have that just doesn't sit right with me.
"I'm brand spanking new and I don't care how quickly my upline started to make money. I do actually know in detail how his business is going (very well) because I started just a week or so after him, but why the bloody hell should he tell me what his businees is making if he doesn't want to?"
Just brand spanking new and already thinking just like the Diamonds want you too. Let's see you say your upline doesn't have to tell you anything about his business, but you know it is going "very well". Either it takes very, very little to convince you of something, or you just contradicted yourself.
"If somebody doesn't like that I won't divulge my income, I've got nothing against them. I just happen to have nothing to offer them either."
You are right there, you have nothing to offer them. Most likely a profitable income statement is the first thing you don't have to offer, but my advice would be to walk away from you and go find a real business minded IBO like anon.
"Do what you want and let others do the same. That's the problem with "critics" - they're all about telling people about apparent dishonesty and pressure, etc... but they don't say "and by the way, I'm biased too and I am pressuring you to stop doing something that might actually appeal to you." Seriously, whoever said it already, you're right, these bloggers are morons."
ROFLMBO!!!! I don't think I have ever heard of someone being pressured by a blog. Last I checked people come here and read of their own free will. Not sure how that is pressuring, but you seem to be on board with it.
"Symbol that your website has lived on past its time and should be shut down:
Instead of the annual April Fool's joke, you have another redundant article asserting the same concept that has been discussed for many years on many different websites (and quite frankly more succinctly and effectively)."
I don't get it, what fun would an April Fool's joke be if you were all expecting it?
Anyway, sorry you are disappointed. I guess I can't please everyone. Granted I'm no Qblog (he is a rare item) but I just do the best I can and let the chips fall where they may.
ok ok ok, now I try to consider myself as open minded as possible. Here is my view thus far. I have watched this business. I have friends in it. I have friends that were in it, past tense. I can solidly say that never have I seen someone be uplifted by quixtar financially. Now, I can also say I haven’t seen anyone go completely bankrupt either.
However, I have felt some negative tactics used against me with quixtar. It is like a family, some may call it that, or others may call it cult. Whatever you call it, I don’t really care. What has hurt me in this biz, is I was involved with a “love” that was into it. I have sense let her go. We were VERY close. She is or was a terrific person. She did no direct physical harm to me, but she is easily influenced. Also note that she was and still is not financially well. She has been involved in quixtar for almost 1.7 years now and I KNOW she is not making money yet. She does believe in the business and she has very high hopes.
When things did get rocky between us, her upline did use choice words to make me look bad, and this was only after her upline discovered that I didn’t whole heartedly believe in “the plan”. They do consider themselves “sisters” and that is not a bad thing. But I do semi believe that the system has made her more gullible than ever, and built a potentially fickle sisterhood between her and her uplines. Another thing to note is that her particular group is very involved into religion. My relationship with her was not concerned with religion or quixtar. We talked about it and she never would say how much she made. Now I did become a little bad after my curiosity got the best of me. I was able to get information that showed me how much she was loosing. I cannot divulge the specifics but I’ll say that her expense ratio was 10 times greater than her profits. Now consider this though, she was a busy girl. At first she was in college only to drop out with her hopes of the 5 year retirement. I do wish her the best and I HOPE sooooooooooooo much she reaches what she wants. Currently I KNOW she has collection agencies after her for her unpaid student loan debts. I will keep a undisclosed watchful loving eye on her only because I love her. I do NOT want to hurt her or bring her down. I just pray that she did drop out of college for a real goal. She is needy, she is subject to influence by other easily. On the surface she mentions that her only real reason to be in the business is to bring others to Christ, but towards our rocky ending it began to escalate to desires of material wealth, cars, clothes, etc…. We all desire those things, I just hope and pray that it is not instilling a system of beliefs that you will 100% get there living on credit and hopes alone. I know I am more financially savvy than she is, I want her to be wealthy. But we cannot speak because of our broken bridges. That is all for now, just 1 mans view point.
It is truly amazing how gullible so many people are. As a seasoned financial professional of 40 years I said no to QT years ago because I could quickly see that it had no substance. I recently purchased a five bedroom, three bath house with a full basement and an in-ground pool. I wrote a check to pay for it. Not because I've gotten involved with these sorts of schemes but because I have avoided them. If you're in denial please seek advice before you waste your time. If not you can pursue the California gold rush. You'll only be 158 years too late.
I must say that I recently joined up with Quixtar (December 2006) and the opportunity actually came through someone who was already a good friend of mine. She and her husband brought it to me and it sounded awesome so I joined up, and let me just say that if someone is really making money off Quixtar then they should have no qualms about telling you how much they are pulling in. Which in MY case they told me right away what they spend on products, what they sell, how much profit they got back, etc. all in detail without hesitation!
Hey Jota,
Thank you for telling your story. What I would suggest, not force, you do, is that you get back in touch with her and be prepared to learn what you have to do, what sacrifices you have to make to get the business going; not just this business, any business.
"Sit down before fact as a little child, be prepared to give up every preconceived notion... or you shall learn nothing" - Thomas H Huxley
wow, a lot of opinions here.
well, another opinion to add to the bunch:
people will always be there to tell other people stuff. whether you believe it or not is completely up to you.
the best way i could describe it would be: 6 blind men walk up to an elephant. they all have a feel at the same time. obviously the are feeling different parts of the giant animal, but they assume thats what an elephant feels like.
whats appealing to some may not be to others, there are always going to be negative people and positive people, but the best way to learn about something is to try it for yourself and not let your own judgement be made by someone else. (including my own)
the simplest fact about Quixtar's business plan is that theres really only one thing that separates immediate success, long term success, or no success in the business: you either do it, or you don't. the only variable in making money in Quixtar is yourself.
If someone wants to tell you how much they make, its completely up to them, however, it is completely and totally irrelevant to YOU making money in the business. If people only got into business from people making tons of money, that would mean that every new person would be in business to never make a dime.
The training is in place to help you make the money you want. EVERYONE starts out making nothing (as if someone would need to say that) and making money or not depends on you, and what you find to be important out of what people tell you. i'll be first to admit that the business is not for everyone, but not one will ever know unless they try it.
David Drozdowski said: I do actually know in detail how his business is going (very well) because I started just a week or so after him, but why the bloody hell should he tell me what his businees is making if he doesn't want to?
Joe: You're right and I can offer you a much easier business opportunity that can make you 5 times more income than quixtar. Easy as pie too! Why not join me?
But don't bother asking for proof that it works because I don't wish to disclose that.
"Thank you for telling your story. What I would suggest, not force, you do, is that you get back in touch with her and be prepared to learn what you have to do, what sacrifices you have to make to get the business going; not just this business, any business."
What are those sacrifices Cristian? Do you even know, or do you have preconceived notions about that? My wife and I have started 3 businesses since leaving Quixtar and none of them have required near the sacrifice that was expected from our upline in Quixtar, or what Jota has described in his story.
Also, I would be willing to put my best day's profit in business up against any IBO's best year's profit, who has been in business as long as I have.
Quit trying to decieve folks with your preconceived ideas about sacrifice in business. Read that quote you left again and try actually following that advice. That applies to more then just when your upline is talking.
Quoting Drew's response to Joe:
What are those sacrifices Cristian? Do you even know, or do you have preconceived notions about that? My wife and I have started 3 businesses since leaving Quixtar and none of them have required near the sacrifice that was expected from our upline in Quixtar, or what Jota has described in his story.
Ed Writes:
The line that put me over the top that the "sacrifice" wasn't worth it (after looking at the horrible odds on thisbiznow.com) was made by one of my upline and I quote:
" You will waste 95% of your time in this business, but the other 5% pays very well. "
No business is worth wasting 95% of your time on. My tech company has its bad days and "wastes" of time, but if I was wasting that much time, I would either sell it or shut it down. I would rather make less and be productive that to simply waste time. Not to mention the sacrificed family time.
BTW, that guy has been in the business for 4 years and still has not broken 4000. Drives a TON and is out there nearly every night.
What are those sacrifices?
Money, sleep, simple pleasures of life, friends, family, integrity and other such useless things, I guess...
Drew - looking forward to reading your post on the total time and capital investments and returns on your 3 post-Quixtar ventures.
James is right, you should all listen to him for he speaks words of wisdom, not just opinions.
"Drew - looking forward to reading your post on the total time and capital investments and returns on your 3 post-Quixtar ventures."
As soon as I see you post yours. But on second thought I might consider it. You are not going to like the results however because it will shatter your IBO belief that other businesses take more time, have more capital investments, and don't see returns right away. Might be a good post to put another IBO Echo Chamber Myth to bed.
Cristian,
James only speaks wisdom in your view, because you are hooked on tape speak. I heard that stupid elephant story so many times I knew it as soon as I read the first few words. I am still waiting for those sacrifices you know about in any business.
....the only variable in making money in Quixtar is yourself. -James
Wow, There's a quote for the ages! Its amzaing that people are so caught up with this business they actually believe that they are the sole controlling force of their success/failure. Its a shame they can not see behind the scenes and discover all the variables that are working AGAINST them.
1. uncompetitave product pricing
2. costly system expenses
3. 50% of recruits drop out yearly
4. poor PV/BV values
5. market saturation
6. bad advice from upline
7. a tool system that promotes buying more tools and overpriced goods
In my opinion, these strong variables had a large impact that prevented me from making ANY income in this business.
Drew,
Just out of curiosity, have you ever received a straight shooting answer to this topic that you ever felt was "satisfactory"?
The next question. How much is enough that would convince you? Or is it even a specific dollar Amt in mind that would show that it's profitable enough?
I agree Drew, thanks for the understanding of my experience
to Cristian Anton:
Now I cannot get back in touch with her, because her upline and all she is associated with thinks I'm the devil and evil because I wasn't jumping for joy at quixtar. Have you ever heard about people in the biz shutting out anything negative?
well that is exactly what they have done, the biz helped us to separate, because they are using her, and rather than loose her as a downline, they slandered me to make me look like the one bringing her world apart. It was not ONLY quixtar that brought conflict into our relationship, but it was quixtar that fanned the flame of separation, because I was not promoting and joining the business. Understand? I cannot talk back with her because of the "brotherhood/sisterhood/cult/mental warpage.
Also, even if we could talk, she apparently doesn’t even know the sacrifices to make because she is making lots of sacrifices only for no gain, I mentioned she currently has collection agencies after her. She is not well. When we were together the only thing that was keeping her out of debt was my ability and influence on her to save, and become a cautious spender. AT least then she was not in debt. Sure we did not have nice things, but we were really debt free. Now she is IN Debt, and apparently happy because it will "all pay off"
Enlighten me of the sacrifices though, if you do know them state them in black and white. Remember she has no one to depend on for other sources of income until her business gets rolling so yes she has to work full time doing something else while working on her "5 year plan"
Also when she began, she was in it purely for “Christ” but now, as I reflect back, I saw her become very image concerned, with fancy houses, nice cars, luxurious things/ interests in mind. And that itself is not bad, but to feast your eyes on that and want that when the timing is not proper can hurt people. I saw her change, she solidly believes it is for the best. Believe me though, when I say things. I have ways to get information on anyone. Because of who I am, I can eyeball up peoples financial weight on the economy. I do promise though, that IF she ever does get to a successful level of achievement throughout this venture, I WILL come back on here, and anywhere else and preach the success, I can only say what I have seen with my own eyes. I saw pure negativity, and unprioritized thought processes that lead to success, which intern means no success or at least well-delayed success.
Hi Everyone; I feel increadibly privaledged to live in a country where free interprise is invited. I am 19 years old and have never heard my Father or Mother say, " No I won't be able to make it to your game today son, I have to work late." I never heard that thanks to the principles taught in this wonderful business. Quixtar.com is a portal, a search engine, much as google.com is. So, how's google.com going for you guys? It is awesome to know that at the age of 24 my wife (not married yet) will be retired and more then likely myself as well. I have a plan much like my parents, that beats the hell out of a 401K. Here are some figures mandadited by the FTC: "project one" a 6-18 month process nets about 50K yearly, and "project two: nets about 150-200K yearly. If you don't go to work tomorrow do you get paid? I do, my parents do. It seams to me that working smart beats working hard. Not only with this business, but apply these principles to everyday life, you will find yourself more seuccessful. "Success: A progressive realization or a worth-while dream or goal." The average employee will wake up to an annoying sound 10K times in their life, drive to a place they don't want to be, and miss out on 80K hours of their kids growing up. Maybe those who doubt a business like this, should read "Why We Want You To Be Rich" Robert Kyoski and Donald Trump. Unbelieveable that the worlds elete placed their order on a Ditto system. So before you critisize or mock those around you, look at the their fruit. It most likely will be more prosperous then your own. My kids will be raised by their parents, not a television, or a 16 year old day care employee. So maybe a system that has created the most millionaires outside of Microsoft, is doing something right. Again without free interprise non of this would be possible. Please think before you blog, because without this system I might not eveer see my father. Do you want your kids to see you? Many lives have been touched,and marrigages saved. So please don't be the one that ruins lives and families. Many people would enjoy 5K a month extra.
"Quixtar.com is a portal, a search engine, much as google.com is."
OK, is this a joke or are people just losing their fricken minds now?
"Maybe those who doubt a business like this, should read "Why We Want You To Be Rich" Robert Kyoski and Donald Trump. Unbelieveable that the worlds elete placed their order on a Ditto system."
So Donald Trump and Robert Kiyosaki have Ditto Delivery profiles? What do they order each month?
"I am 19 years old and have never heard my Father or Mother say, " No I won't be able to make it to your game today son, I have to work late."
My kids never hear that either, and thank goodness they never hear "No I won't be able to make it to your game today son, I have to go Diamond."
"Do you want your kids to see you?"
Yup, hence the reason I am not in Quixtar.
"Many lives have been touched,and marrigages saved."
...and so many more lives and marriages have been destroyed as well.
"Just out of curiosity, have you ever received a straight shooting answer to this topic that you ever felt was "satisfactory"?"
What topic Michael? Business finances?
"The next question. How much is enough that would convince you? Or is it even a specific dollar Amt in mind that would show that it's profitable enough?"
Convince me of what? How about you give this post another shot and help me to understand specifically what you are asking?
Drew,
When you ask the question,
"How much do you make?"
Has anyone given you a straight shooting answer?
Also,
You suggested that you'd rather Learn from the guy who's making $1,000/month rather than $10/month.
I was curious as to the dollar amt as to what would be sufficient profit to convince someone. Critic's love to talk about the "Average" IBO only producing $115/month as a bad thing. This is based on what criteria?
Amway/Quixtar has made more millionaires than any company besides Microsoft. Can anyone prove this? Or is this another AmBot lie perpetuated by the echo chamber?
The numbers just don't support the statement. Remember, the average IBO makes $115/month. I doubt too many millionaires were made on this salary. Also remember, that for this average to hold, for every IBO making $100,000/month, there are over 850 making nothing.
"When you ask the question,
"How much do you make?"
Has anyone given you a straight shooting answer?"
What does this matter? I am not talking about taking them at their word. Read again Michael, I am talking about opening up the books. I can ask all day long and may never know the real answer. I am all about showing business income statements. IBOs that don't want to talk about their business income seem to be all about the talk.
"I was curious as to the dollar amt as to what would be sufficient profit to convince someone. Critic's love to talk about the "Average" IBO only producing $115/month as a bad thing. This is based on what criteria?"
That $115 a month is from Quixtar and is before expenses. Add expenses to that number and they are close to joining the $10 a month club, possibly the "lose money every month" club if they are on all the tools.
I would just like to see that someone is making a profit, and the factor of time would also play into it. I would expect a higher profit from a 3 year IBO, then from someone who has been in 6 months. The majority of IBOs however can't even show a profit at all.
As far as the amount it will take to convince someone is going to be different for each person, and is not something one can pinpoint. That however should not stop an IBO who claims they are in business from opening the books like any real business would.
"So maybe a system that has created the most millionaires outside of Microsoft, is doing something right."
When people talk about a business that seems to be very lucrative, I have NEVER heard anyone refer to Quixtar or Amway, ever. Many people have heard of or had some experience with Amway, and at the mention of the name, either say, "I (or my mom)used to buy detergent from them sometimes. It was good stuff, but expensive."
Most people have never heard of Quixtar, or if they have, they almost literally back away from you as you utter the word. How can this be such a great opportunity when so many people high tail and run at the mention of its name? Don't say it's because of the internet because I got the willies at my first time of being shown the plan, and that was before doing any googling.
I can't find anyone who's heard of Artistry, either. I'm always surprised to hear the claim that Artistry is one of the leading makeup-skin care companies on the market today. I just don't get it. How can it be so popular when most people I talk to haven't even heard of it?
BTW, Millionaire in a thought process, it would be helpful if you would use your real name. After all, you are one of the lucky ones in AQ, and I would think that you would be proud to say who you are and who your parents are. I'm assuming they are diamonds by now, and it IS a plus for the company to let people out here kow about some of the success stories.
Is it my imagination or do many of these these "future" millionaires have poor grammar and spelling skills?
Quote from Bruce Fitzgerald: It is truly amazing how gullible so many people are. As a seasoned financial professional of 40 years I said no to QT years ago because I could quickly see that it had no substance. I recently purchased a five bedroom, three bath house with a full basement and an in-ground pool. I wrote a check to pay for it. Not because I've gotten involved with these sorts of schemes but because I have avoided them. If you're in denial please seek advice before you waste your time. If not you can pursue the California gold rush. You'll only be 158 years too late.
FOR THOSE THAT HAVE EARS LET THEM HEAR AND READ THAT QUOTE AGAIN!
The FTC wants you to ask that earnings claims from an MLMer who prospects you be substantiated. From their website:
Beware of plans that claim to sell miracle products or promise enormous earnings. Ask the promoter to substantiate claims.
http://www.ftc.gov/bcp/conline/pubs/alerts/pyrdalrt.htm
Funny, I don't hear many ACTUAL millionaires (except the ones who got that way by selling self-help books through MLM systems) say that "millionaire is a thought process". Just self-proclaimed 'future millionaires'.
I wonder why that is?
I guess this guy could be well on his way to being a 'millionaire kingpin', though, 'cause that post read a lot like the few tapes I've heard - rambling, stream-of-consciousness, poorly constructed factoids with with little basis in the truth, and no bearing on reality.
Joecool,
"Is it my imagination or do many of these these "future" millionaires have poor grammar and spelling skills?"
What does that have to do with anything?
get a life. find something else to do, rather then to just write about a company thats already making billions of dollars. why don't you start making billions of dollars first before you start talking about a company that already is.
Hey, Millionaire-in-a-thought-process, where'd you go?
CK,
Watch "The Big Idea: with Donny Deutsch" or pick up the book "Conversations with Millionaires". You will hear it just about every night on "Big Idea" and all 9 millionaires in the book mention it. That would be faster than you reading biographies, or perhaps talking to a few, and hearing it from them.
Granted, the mindset alone will not get you there, action is what takes you along the path. But every "successful" person, financial and otherwise, that I have met and/or read about has shown me that thoughts (or the dream) is what prompts action and opens doors others believe to be closed...
Rara,
Actually the FTC prohibits making any income claims in 5 different states, whether they can be substanciated or not.
I am not a big fan of "check flashing" because it has absolutely no bearing on whether a prospective IBO can follow the plan or not and become successful because they peeked at my financial stability.
"get a life. find something else to do, rather then to just write about a company thats already making billions of dollars. why don't you start making billions of dollars first before you start talking about a company that already is."
Hmmm, get a life eh? Well let's see what qualifies as getting a life? Does working a good job with great pay, being involved in many community activities helping others, coaching my children in their sports, and running a profitable business on the side count as having a life?
Or do I need to be in shopping malls and bookstores stalking people and showing home plans all the while letting my upline put their hands in my wallet for that new CD or book that I just have to have if I am going to go Diamond. I think the notion of having a life my friend is subjective.
BTW, if we are supposed to go make a billion dollars before we can talk about a company that does, why does that same logic not apply to you IBOs when you all run around trashing Wal-Mart on a day-to-day basis. I guess what's good for the goose huh?
Aw, come on Drew, I've never dissed Walmart. Quite the contrary, I think it is a great company! (Granted, you won't find me there unless I'm picking up a DVD or two at $0.04 cheaper than Target... and I have to be pretty much in the parking lot to be pulled that way to buy it!) Haha. What sports are your kids in?
Yes, Brad, the drive, ambition, and raw ability ('thought process') is a necessary ingredient in the millionaire recipe - but it's not the only one. It's just the only one on which the AMOs focus, because it needn't produce tangible results to keep the masses coming back for more.
Millionaire is work ethic, a great idea, the right time, and sometimes just plain old good luck (or God's grace, depending on your perspective). I know several millionaires who got that way, not by reading self-help books designed to change their thought process, but by ACTING on their passion. None of them would agree that "thought process" was a major component of their success.
Michael,
I am not disputing what you wrote, but do you have a link?
Anyway, the advice is that one should substantiate product or income potential claims. Nothing there about check flashing. Whether one check is enough to substantiate an income claim is up to the individual.
"Aw, come on Drew, I've never dissed Walmart. Quite the contrary, I think it is a great company! (Granted, you won't find me there unless I'm picking up a DVD or two at $0.04 cheaper than Target... and I have to be pretty much in the parking lot to be pulled that way to buy it!) Haha. What sports are your kids in?"
Brad,
While you may not, you cannot deny the fact that Wal-Mart bashing is an IBO favorite among many. Matter of fact Red Bull bashing, Target bashing, etc. are also favorites.
My oldest plays soccer, my middle child plays football and baseball, and my youngest will start soccer in the fall (no tackle football leagues for 4 year olds) and tee-ball next spring.
Rara,
I was trying to look for that document, but suprisingly it was over at Grimes & Reese website. So Far, the only doc I did find shows Massachusets and Wyoming, however I do remember there were at least 5 states.
Here's the PDF doc:
http://www.mlmlaw.com/library/guides/IncomeClaims.pdf
Read through all the posts. Some good points by a lot of writers. I am an active IBO, and have gone up and down the 'scale' multiple times through 13 years. Made some decent money some years, some years not made much at all.
The business can't be sustained. I also own a number of the much-scorned 'bricks and mortar' businesses. They do well, and in fact, one of them is my actual 'million-dollar baby'. Most tax-deductions re: Quixtar encouraged by upline cannot be defended at an audit. This is because most people do not make money, or any semblance thereof.
Absolutely love my upline and downline people, but I'm under no illusion (anymore) that this is a "build it and you're done" operation.
Tim,
Have you shared that 'disillusionment' with your downline?
i don't understand how people can sell their soul to make a quick buck? what looks to good to be true, i'm sure it is, it's just in a very manipulative way.
i agree with drew. i've worked for 6 years corporate insurance. as a commercial lines underwriter's point of view, to release a quote we need ALL financial information. to take on a new business adventure, you NEED to know the business financial statements, previous tax returns, and financial monthly reports; provide it, what are you hiding?
to sit at one of these meetings last night, i was very skeptical. as an analytical person the p's & q's were perfect. a little too perfect, as is, too good to be true. i asked questions after the meeting and i got the cold shoulder. what do you get out of this? i asked the same question what are the others underneath me going to get out of this? i'm a contractor and if someone asked what website i belong to i'm not suppose to say. did i miss something? more closed answered statements. they eventually said we will meet with you later in the week.
the speaker was great, ear to ear nose to nose the exact same quota all the rest of the speakers rant about. 20-30 mins of bullcrap, the a quick 10 minute over view of the company. big red flag. i don't know about the rest of you but $205 start up fee, gee i felt they were giving me a discount cause it's s/b $280, gee what a deal. lmao. what the heck is that about? right, and this is not a pyramid scheme. it was released on dateline how amway/quixtar is nothing but a cult with their weekly meetings and their supposed big financials.
out of 100 people in this room i had the most expensive handbag. i'd rather earn my money and keep my soul for eternal life. thank you very much.
I only have one small point, if you ask those who are higher up in the organization how much they make, do you know what they tell you? The same thing as the person who started 4 days ago. It realy is none of your business. Even those making alot of money do not brag about it. You can see the ideal is consistant. I will tell you this much. I make more than some of those in my immediate upline. And I do not make that much yet nor am I putting alot of time into thses days
You are not investing into my business you are investing into your business with this oportunity. You are not asking for a loan or to lend me money so again what I am miking is not absolutley relevant. I do understand the desire to know the answer but there is no NEED to know.
I am claiming to help you make more money with a pattern that has worked for others am I doing it well enough to succeed is a fair question but the beauty of it is I am more of an accountibilty partner then a teacher compared to others in my upline. so again my income is not really relevant . If I am teaching you that 2+2=4 it is not relevant that I get it right every time, becaus eit is still a fact adn you too can get it right now.
Todd, your income is significant if you are using it as a recruiting point
or if you are using that income as a way to get people interested in the business.
Todd wrote: "Even those making alot of money do not brag about it."
CK asks: You're kidding, right?
Whoa Todd,
If you are to be my sponsor/upline, I AM "investing" and going "into business" with you - so I would want disclosure of your claims of income,such as:
"I will tell you this much. I make more than some of those in my immediate upline"
That claim means nothing w/o some numbers to make it relevent.
Imagine if you were in a job interview and you asked about salary and the interviewer said: "I can tell you that I make more than the guy who works 3 blocks from here as a custodian"
That doesn't tell you anything, does it?
Why is there so little business in "the business"??
You do nothing to encourage others to pursue an opportunity that they would like to learn more about. Why don't you just shut up; you are a moron.
Posted by: Anonymous | April 1, 2007 9:59 PM