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March 7, 2007
New Facts About Quixtar Site
By Drew in Quixtar
Over at the Real Quixtar Blog, Kia (aka Robin Luymes), has reported that a new factsaboutquixtar.com site has launched. From what I understand this site has the same content that one would get if they were to purchase a Facts About Quixtar DVD. Robin explains the purpose of putting the material on a website with the following statement:
As with all tools we provide to IBOs, we want to provide them for free or cover our costs. We're excited to be able to now provide all of that content for free on the Web.
WOW! What a concept! Provide tools for free, or at cost. Anyways, the site contains eight videos and a PDF file with frequently asked questions. I must say I am disappointed in the content of many of the videos. While Robin says it is to help IBOs respond to "tough" questions about their business, most of the videos strike me as propaganda, and they even included everyone's favorite video of Rob Davidson.
Ironically, I just got done posting an article over at my Quixtar Inside Out blog about why IBOs should give their prospects straight answers. I can't say that I think the answers in those videos are straight, I actually feel many of the videos don't completely address the real issues at all.
I did find it interesting however in some of the videos the average time stated for Platinum was 4 years, and the average time for Diamond was 10 years. More confirmation of why I feel it is misleading to show a 2-5 year plan for Diamond. Anyway, head on over and take a look at the videos for yourself, and let me know what you think.
Comments
All legitimate questions, Kicked. Have you ever gone directly to the corporation (ie: phone, email, letter, going to HQ) and asked these questions directly? If so, what response did you get?
With this Quixtar is Amway thing, how about just drop it? Quixtar ISNT amway, its a sister company of Amway. If you look at the legal structure, im sure youll understand.
For an example, try sueing Amway. Im pretty sure you wont end up sueing Quixtar, although im not sure how Amway and Alticor is connected
Christian is right. Quixtar isn't Amway.
They just have the same owners and production plant, the same products, the same sales and marketing plan and amway diamonds in the US became quixtar diamonds. How could anyone mistake amway for quixtar?
Yeah!
Quixtar isn't Amway!
Until, you call Quixtar a pyramid scheme.
Then, suddenly, Quixtar IS Amway - that's been around since Christ was a Direct - and the FTC said it was the model for all other MLMs out there.
Spare me.
Next time an IBO contacts me for recruiting me into Quixtar (AMWAY), I am gonna play along, record the entire crap (with a hidden camera) of him showing the plan, building dreams, becoming financially free with Quixtar, helping others, serving the people, giving back to society etc etc(All the tapespeak) with him. Would make a hit video on "YouTube"!!!!! Hmmm Cant wait to go to Walmart to find some IBOs waiting for a catch.
What do you guys think????
I've written to corporation, and received a call too.
NOTHING was done.
Amway north America IBOs became Quixtar IBOs after 1999, LOS intact, business model same except ordering from a web site instead of product pick up.
Definitely different company. As different as I was from myself 5 years ago.
Kicked????? Any response???
Besides the bitter, immature one you just posted???
Yeah. That's the answer Kicked. Go out and record an innocent person who really believes they ARE helping others AND their own family. Then put it on the internet. Yeah. That's the mature & responsible thing to do. I'm sure you'd be real proud of yourself for that one.
Just curious...what are YOU doing to contribute positively to our society???
To all others, yes. The bottom line is this: In 1999, the sons of the founders of AMWAY created a new company in the U.S. by the name of Quixtar. The LOS's were "invited" to roll their businesses over to this new model. Most did. There was some turmoil. Many people did not want to change the way they did business. They either 'got with the program' or they lost out.
Since 1999, most of the LOS's have figured out what works & what doesn't work with this type of business model (private francising). I personally believe it is close to being perfected.
Guys, a rose is still a rose by any other name. In other words, you can call this whatever you want. It's an excellent business model whereby you can build your own online subscriber base to your own website. You can service them personally or they can simply purchase anonymously if they so choose.
There are many beautiful things about this business opportunity: it can be done online. it can be done in person. it can be done via catalog/phone. there are millions of products - some exclusive & of the highest quality. Most of the products are well-known, name-brand products. Customers have the opportunity to purchase at the Quixtar determined retail price (typically lower than most retail stores - when comparing apples to apples) or they can purchase a membership and get products at a discounted price. They also have the opportunity to have their own website & build their own subsciber base. Due to purchasing power on the internet, shipping is fast becoming a non-issue.
Tools ARE optional. No matter what the critics believe. No matter what their personal experience was. From all the posts & comments I've ever read, the most prominent common thread from critics is that they were told to purchase 'x' amount of tools & they were told to go to all the meetings & functions, no matter what.........and they did - against their own intuitions.
Then they turn around and blame the MO and/or Quixtar.
Educate yourself. Educate others. Sell some products. Make some profit. Share the opportunity. That's it. In a nutshell. No matter what name you put on it, it's an awesome opportunity.
youre a scam, and your recruiters are trying to attack vulnerable college students. youre a bunch of assholes.
You must be new anon. Caredul, you don't want to use up all your canned responses at once!
Yes, we all know that the LOS and the Corp. SAY that the tools are optional.
We all know that if you want to just do a small thing with your biz, that's OK. But if you wanna build it HUUUGGEE then you need to get on the system. Thing is, when they show the plan, they don't show it as a way to do it small.
The doom, the gloom, the sense of urgency to build this big? The reiteration over and over that your job is not safe?
Anyone who gets in and doesn't want to be on the "tools" would be made to feel really foolish after that introduction, both by the upline and to themselves.
Problem is, if they get in, it's like agreeing that they want security for their family. Then if they don't go on what is purported to give them that security, all of a sudden they're not serious about the opportunity.
I know anon. Not in your group.
Someone is hurt big time!!!!! I like it like that.
Hey anon
As far as what kicked is doing to contribute to society, I think he's doing a marvellous public service by warning people of this "opportunity"
You believe its close to being perfected? On the basis of what? You were aware, of course, that Amway wasn't perfect right? Sounds to me like an upline line to keep you strung along buying tools.
I think you could maybe educate yourself as well. These websites are a good start...
In response to Anon:
It's the same business as Amway except with some bells, whistles, and process improvments. The basic MO is still the same...buy products and tools or "take a flying leap." Yes, the "business" is flavored with GOOD things like values and success principles, but the basic MO is still the same. If you want to make money then register a bunch a people that do the same thing, you get some money from Quixtar and the [insert kingpin tool business here] system will match that income and compensate you additionally for "being a leader in the system."
Anon, it's cool to make money that way. Just don't lie, cheat, deceive, or in any way manipulate people into duplicating your process.
It's a well known fact that the business plan that most organizations describe manipulate or flatout misrepresent the facts. To gain credibility (and respect for that matter) give people the raw, hard facts (even if some can be perceived as negative), and stop selling this thing as a simple, easy, adventure. It's a business opportunity that takes complete and total dedication with minimal flexibility. It's vitally important, in any respectable business, to present your potential "business partners" an honest, forward, open, and realistic view of the "business." Give them and positives AND the negatives...Then let the people decide.
What's killing Quixtar are the lies, manipulation, cover-ups, and close-mindedness to tighten and regulate the process. Anybody can gain success with success principles, but respect is earned not through exclusivity but through transparency.
Your true enemies will always hate you, but it's your choice whether or not they can repect you. (For example, I hate Best Buy. Best Buy sucks, but I respect that they've pulled in profit every quarter for the last 5 years.)
That's why I put " " around the Quxtar "business." A real business by definition is a seperate legal entity that provides products and/or services for clients. Most IBO's are independent contractors or 1099 EMPLOYEES that have the "business" registered with their Social Security number.
Anyway, my point is made. As Sean Connery once said, "Suck it Trebek!"
Forgiven IBO - I'm not american so don't entirely know your business legal setup there, but isn't someone in a "Joe Smith trading as Joe's Cleaners" or similar considered to be running a "real business"?
Hey everybody. I completely agree that the lies and deception that some bring into their business for their own temporary benefit has created an confusing situation. It has infuriated and confused many. I do not claim to know more or less than anyone else who has posted comments on here. I do however find it interesting that if this was such a scam as some would propose, then why are so many big players in the world of business affiliated with it?
Do you think Pepsi would go near Britney Spears right now with a twenty foot pole after all her charades? Why then would legitimate companies and organizations be affiliated with Quixtar if it could become a blemish on their reputation? Thats all I got. have a great week everybody.
The real answer is that Quixtar is the old Amway business for North America. Yes, Quixtar is technically now a separate company from Amway, and they are both owned by Alticor (the parent company). The big difference is that Amway is the name of the business all over the world, except in North America, where it is the Quixtar business. They are not the same entity, but they are the same business model and opportunity.
One way to prove this is to see how current IBOs receive compensation bonuses. An IBO can go Diamond in Amway/Quixtar by using legs of IBO businesses in both North America and from other countries. Those other legs that are not in North America are in the "Amway" business. But the Amway/Quixtar corporation combines the North American Quixtar business volume and the other-country Amway business volume together to form a pin level. So, if Alticor/Amway/Quixtar ("the coporation") recognizes Quixtar and Amway together in this way, then the business model is basically the same.
But again, they are two separate companies on paper and legally.
Blako,
All the big companies that are selling their products thru Q* are just using it as a vendor. They do not use Q* as a brand ambassador for their products. Enough has been written regarding this analogy by others on this site as well as on other sites.
Blako said: "Do you think Pepsi would go near Britney Spears right now with a twenty foot pole after all her charades? Why then would legitimate companies and organizations be affiliated with Quixtar if it could become a blemish on their reputation? Thats all I got. have a great week everybody."
Joe says: Blako, you're right, except that you have IBOs running their business under "big john enterprises" or whatever name thay have for their
IBOship and these individuals are the ones spouting deception.
As for why some companies partner with quixtar - simple, it's not illegal true, but they make money from quixtar's dedicated salesforce. Funny to note that none of these "partners" sell quixtar products.
Wow Janet. That was one of the most mature, insightful, well-thought-out comments I've ever seen on this sight! ;-)
Rocket, Kicked & Forgiven,
Looks like I've stirred you guys up with some TRUTH! Sorry if your experience was negative. Mine is not. I love this business & have made money EVERY SINGLE MONTH! It's kept me an at-home mom when my husband lost his job! I didn't have to put the kids in kiddie jail & go out to a job! I was able to stay home with our kids & work this biz part time (around the kids schedules or WITH the kids!).
I know you guys have had bad experiences. You ran into some scammers. Bad people. But it does NOT make the whole bunch bad.
In the year I've been coming to this site, I have yet to see PROOF.....ACTUAL PROOF that this business, or the related MO's, are a scam.
I've seen only opinions. That's it!
So please, get beyond the fact that you got lied to or screwed or made bad decisions or fell for it or whatever. Please finally realize that MOST people involved in this industry are not BAD people. Most of us are real people just trying to get out of debt or get free from our jobs or provide for our family's or pay for college or help out our parents/extended family or help out those in need in our communities. That's it! That's about as "bad" as most IBO's get.
Once again, I am sorry you had a really bad experience. It happened. No one can change that. But you can control what you do with that experience. Do you really think you're "helping" others out by making rude & immature comments on this site?
Think about it. Really think about it. You may find yourself freeing up some time to go do something more productive. :-)!!!!!!
Blako -
Pepsi wouldn't go near Spears as a spokesmodel - but they'll sell her soda all day long.
"Big Companies" are no more 'affiliated' with Quixtar than you are to the company that made your TV. Quixtar is a customer. That's all. You buy products from the 'big companies' through Quixtar to get PV/BV. No one else in the world cares who 'big companies' sell to - and letting someone be your customer is not an endorsement.
Blako, this blog is a joke, it's not meant to be taken seriously. I agree with the fact that there are isolated incidents and with what you said before. I also agree that this blog exposes nothing but the "don't blame me, blame the business" attitude. Pathetic but it's a joke blog.
Wow, I am so glad that you guys have put this blog together. I am a I.B.O. with the LTD team out of Macon, Ga. I can't say that anyone has lied to me. However, I also feel I was born for this kind of business. I think this site (I.B.O's and other parties) make an excellent point. This business is not for everyone.
It requires someone willing to learn a business mind frame and put forth the dedication needed to build a good solid business with good people.
Let's face it fellow business owners. If everyone in the world had the drive and ambition to make it in this business then who would make the products we sell? Who would answer the phone at the service desk?
I have one question for the other parties that found the system did not work for them. Have you started new businesses that are sucsessful?
You had to have a spark of ambition before or would would have never tried it out. So did it die with your first business or did you take your experience and learn from it.
"So please, get beyond the fact that you got lied to or screwed or made bad decisions or fell for it or whatever. Please finally realize that MOST people involved in this industry are not BAD people. Most of us are real people just trying to get out of debt or get free from our jobs or provide for our family's or pay for college or help out our parents/extended family or help out those in need in our communities. That's it! That's about as "bad" as most IBO's get."
You are absolutely right. But don't you think it is possible to achieve evil things with the labor of good normal people who simply want to better their odds when information is withheld from them? In any bad organization, the foot soldiers are not necessarily bad, they just don't know enough! There are very corrupt political parties whose grassroot level supporters are no more and no less honest than the next person. Their only 'crime' is that they find the demagogues appealing
When you only believe in (as opposed to know) a certain idea and get others to believe in it too, you run a certain risk of being a scamster. By the time you realize it, a lot of damage would have been done to others.
Anon wrote: "In the year I've been coming to this site, I have yet to see PROOF.....ACTUAL PROOF that this business, or the related MO's, are a scam.
I've seen only opinions. That's it!"
Joecool says: "In the 4 years I've been on this site, I have yet to see PROOF, ACTUAL PROOF that this business works".
The joke is all the newbie IBOs coming here crying that they are going diamond and then disappearing from the blog.
Afterall, many critics actually have more experience than the IBOs who post here.
Anon Wrote: "In the year I've been coming to this site, I have yet to see PROOF.....ACTUAL PROOF that this business, or the related MO's, are a scam."
Ed writes: I haven't seen it here either. What convinced me that it doesn't work (on the whole) was Quixtar's own thisbiznow.com site. Look at the numbers. They simply don't work. I don't think the Quixtar business is a scam (I also don't think it holds the vision of Rich and Jay either). I do think the MO portion is a scam on the whole but that is my opinion.
I don't gamble at casino's or play the lottery either. Life is made up of calculated risks and the Quixtar risk is too high for me to waste my time on. I continue to watch my friends over the last two years spend night after night and meeting after meeting and not progressing. Neither does their upline through their platinum. Does that mean others don't move up? Not at all, but for the effort and the statistics, the risk for reward just isn't worth it.
Phoenix wrote: "I have one question for the other parties that found the system did not work for them. Have you started new businesses that are sucsessful?
You had to have a spark of ambition before or would would have never tried it out. So did it die with your first business or did you take your experience and learn from it."
Ed Writes: I was self employeed before I started the 2nd time. The first time I was not (early nineties before Quixtar). I admit I learned some good things along the way that I have applied to my traditional business. My traditional business is successful as well as having time with my family. I also learned and had to unlearn alot of just really bad ideas. I trusted the people that were saying these things and I don't think they meant any harm, I think they also are simply repeating misguided information from somebody that is too calloused to even see that what they are saying is bad.
The most notable portion of the business, especially for business owners or self employeed people, is the split focus. I do not think you have your heart in two places at once. My traditional business began to suffer at the hands of this business.
I don't spend every waking moment of my day thinking about "the business" like I did in Quixtar (AMWAY). Everybody was a potential prospect. I hated the feeling of not just being able to have a casual conversation with somebody in line somewhere without thinking (this might be a platinum leg I am talking to, I better try to contact him). Now I just have a conversation and move on. If my traditional business comes up, fine, but I am not out for the business all of the time. People are people and have needs, sometimes we get the opportunity to help people, sometimes we just cross paths, and sometimes they end up helping us wit a need we have. I like it better that way.
I think this blog has value in you can find diverse information here. Other sites are purely negative and don't necessarily add value to anything. At least here you get differing opinions. However, the opinions never swayed me. Again, like I said at the top of my post. Quixtar's own numbers turned me off for the effort. The payoff is just not that attractive for me to put up with all of the aspects I couldn't stand about this business.
Joecool18, again, in your story "Joecool's Story", you state that you went 4000 PV, that it basically did work or else you would have quit at 100 PV. However, given that you were experiencing personal life problems, you quit instead of seeking counseling. Now, you blame your personal problems on the business.
The people who reached diamond qualification or even emerald get to live life on their terms, to afford what they want on their terms so, no, it doesn't work.
It does work but you chose to give up. If you were to leave it at that, it would be wise. Instead you blame both, the business and the educational system. Why?
Anon:
"I didn't have to put the kids in kiddie jail & go out to a job!"
Thanks for offering up PROOF of the FUD you ambots are brainwashed into believing. I heard the same characterization of day-cares from the big pins too.
Here is some FUD to send right back at you: "The majority of deaths for children and adolescents occur in the home." HAHAHAHA you think your'e doing your kids a favor by keeping them out of daycare, but your increasing the statistical chance they will die.
Way to be a brain washed mom.
Anon, the proof lies in books like Ruth Carter's "Behind the Smoke and Mirros," and the Eric Schiebeler book. The proof lies in less than .5% making platinum, and only 1 in 14,000 making diamond. The proof lies in 50% of IBO's dropping out their first year, and 67% every year.
Of course, that doesn't take anything away from your experience, anon. But for most, they never profit, and end up spending thousands on tools. The stories and proof are there, if you look for them.
Ok so here's the thing, all of you are just complaining becuase when you tried to become successful in quixtar you were to lazy to go anywhere with it, just admit it. I am an IBO and i cant think of a better business to be a part of, no one has ever forced me to buy tapes, cd's nor has anyone ever pushed me to bring my pv up. every single person i have ever met in quixtar has been nothing but helpful to me.
As far as amway goes, maybe you should recheck your sources, amway is no longer a company as of 1999 when quixtar was created. the internet was what created quixtar and what killed amway. But who's to say that just because people in amway did their business one way means that that is the way that quixtar operates. quixtar doesnt go door to door trying to sell their products. there was one person in amway that ruined for the rest and that one person isnt even involved with quixtar. And just because someone operated one DOES NOT mean thats the way that we operate, i know a lot of people in different ocupations that dont run theirs the same way that others do, did you ever think that there are other dishonest people out their, how about Enron? there are tons of businesses that do the same thing that enron was doing but they dont have the same reputation.
Now lets address the illegal pyramid. Quixtar and there business plans are all approved by the Federal Trade Commission, do you really think that the federal trade commission would allow an illegal pyramid to operate? Probably not. I would say that the thing you call a job is more of an illegal pyramid, what happens in your job, there is one person at the top that is making money for all the work the little guys do. Thats sounds more like an illegal pyramid than all the people at the "bottom" of quixtar having, at any time, more of a chance to succeed than the person above them. As an IBO i have the ability to blow by all of my uplines in a second, it just depends on how hard i work. So if thats what an illegal pyramid is than i guess that we are an illegal pyramid, but last time i checked your job was. I hope that this information helps out for those who are really confused, but as for those who are just plain to lazy and want to steal everyone else's dreams there is no hope for you.
Dreambuilder
Here is where I stopped reading your post:
"As far as amway goes, maybe you should recheck your sources, amway is no longer a company as of 1999 when quixtar was created. the internet was what created quixtar and what killed amway."
Amway is alive and well in most of the world. The internet did not kill Amway, not even close. All distributors in North America moved over to Quixtar. I suggest that you be the one to go check your sources, because you are way off on this one.
You apparently have not done much research on this business outside of what you are being told. I am glad you are having a positive experience and are enjoying yourself.
However, there were many hard working people who did not and lost quite a bit due to it. For you to dismiss all of them as lazy only helps prove what critics say about how IBOs treat those who quit the business. You comment did more harm to your businesses image then it helped.
Christian,
I went 4000 PV and I wasn't making a profit. My upline "advised" me to pour everything into tools. Tools are the key, tools are the answer, nobody succeeds without tools. I was starting to get suspicious about the tools and when my upline "advised" me to dump my girlfriend (now wife of 11 years), I finally had enough and quit.
Frankly I probably was on the road to quitting as I suspected the "Nobody profits from tools" was a big lie. Shortly after I found that to be true.
Later when I found this website, I decided to tell the truth.
Seems like IBOs have a problem with that. Why is that?
JC,
Speaking as an IBO, I don't have a problem with you telling your story. Shout it from the rooftops for all I care! You are speaking truth....YOUR truth.
The problem comes in that you are condeming the entire industry. You are making "blanket" statements about LOS's, MO's & the higher pins in this industry. You are uncessarily adding to the 'myths' about this business.
MANY people make lots of profit from this biz! We're not yet 2500 PV but we profit EVERY MONTH! We have profited every month for a few years! It's how I've been able to raise my own kids vs. daycare & a regular job.
Quite frankly Joe, at some point, if your tools purchasing habit put a dent in your ability to pay your rent (or perhaps mortgage), your utilities, your groceries, etc., then you should have used your OWN head about your business! Your upline doesn't pay your bills. YOU DO! At some point, ya gotta say "NO, it does NOT make sense for us to do that at this time."
And for any upline to take it upon themselves to tell you how to run your relationship is just plain wrong. Unless you specifically went to them and asked their advice.
Your problem with your upline sounds like a PEOPLE/PERSON problem vs. a Quixtar/WWDB/BWW/Network 21/TOD problem. It's when you confuse the two that we IBO's tend to have a "problem".
Fastshutter,
Are you saying you are PRO Full-time daycare???
"Ok so here's the thing, all of you are just complaining becuase when you tried to become successful in quixtar you were to lazy to go anywhere with it, just admit it."
DH showed somewhere in the neighborhood of one thousand plans. He went to over 95% of the meetings during his 10 year tenure. He contacted thousands of people. He spent three times as much on household goods than we had previously spent in order to be 'core'. Had he been in during the time of the "Eagle" program, he'd have been Eagle. There were sometimes 5 days or more between our actually seeing each other, because he was working his regular JOB during the day, and out AmQuixing all night.
Have you done all that yet? Then be careful with your silly accusations.
"As far as amway goes, maybe you should recheck your sources, amway is no longer a company as of 1999 when quixtar was created. the internet was what created quixtar and what killed amway."
You are woefully uninformed. If I am correct, not only is Amway still a company (this I know to be true, as Drew alreayd told you), but it also has the largest gross revenue of all the sister companies under Alticor (of which Q is one). And the internet created Quixtar just like Al Gore created the internet.
"Quixtar and there business plans are all approved by the Federal Trade Commission".
Riiighhht. Care to post that link to FTC approved companies? Care to explain what it means to be 'approved by the FTC'?
Yeah, I didn't think so.
"I hope that this information helps out for those who are really confused, but as for those who are just plain to lazy and want to steal everyone else's dreams there is no hope for you."
What information are you referring to? I didn't see a single fact in your nearly illegible comment. So, I'll give you a chance to enlightening us with some facts that will illuminate this 'business' for the reader, namely:
How long have you been in?
How many hours have you spent 'working' the 'business'?
How much is your NET annual profit (that would be all REAL income from the business less ALL expenses) for the last year you reported? [And, no, buying an item from 'yourself' at an inflated price and counting your overpayment as 'profit' doesn't count - your aforementioned Enron used those kind of accounting techniques.]
Please, respond in complete sentences. All the readers thank you.
CK,
I understand your defensiveness. And I understand your comeback statements to Dreambuilder. They are reasonable and for the most part, true.
Dreambuilder,
If you are for real, good for you for having passion & a dream. But, you really do need to get your facts straight before presenting them on a site like this. Making the comments you made in the format you made them does nothing for the credibility of us legitimate IBO's!
Remember, there is nothing to hide nor anything to be ashamed of! So, just speak truth & treat others fairly at all times.
I do wish you much luck & God's blessings.
Anon
Anon said: Quite frankly Joe, at some point, if your tools purchasing habit put a dent in your ability to pay your rent (or perhaps mortgage), your utilities, your groceries, etc., then you should have used your OWN head about your business! Your upline doesn't pay your bills. YOU DO! At some point, ya gotta say "NO, it does NOT make sense for us to do that at this time."
Joe says: And then upline said "so and so diamond" had the guts to stick it out, but if you wanna quit, go ahead. Or, noone has ever made it without tools, but if you plan to be the first, go ahead..... Or bill britt thinks it's a good idea and he's a millionaire, but if you know better, then quit..... or, so and so diamond said do what it takes, but if you can't, go and quit.
The is a whole lotta tapespeak going on here.
Wow.
Laziness, not my group, greatest business, Amway's dead, kiddie prison, millions of the highest quality products, tools are optional, you should do something more productive with your time than post negative on the internet. etc.
And of course we can't forget the most common classic line of all, the "awesome opportunity" line
"
Anon,
You are an example of someone who entired the Quixtar world with some common business sense. Unfortunately, I'm personally seeing people who seem to have lost their common sense when it comes to basic business fundamentals. (For example, one usually wants to TAKE IN MORE money than they put in to their business, atleast after having been in it for 4 years.) These people ARE being told
*The facts don't count if the dream is big enough.
*If their faith is weak, they won't achieve their dreams.
*Take money (a number in the thousnds) from retirement funds in order to fund the nonprofiting business to buy tools.
These people are constantly reinforced to attend meetings and functions because they receive love and support and positive reinforcements-something they don't get in other places. This is usually connected in some skewed way to Scripture which makes the whole business sound like an ordained sacrament.
After seeing the above things happen to my family, I went to the internet to do some research, and lo and behold, this is not an isolated incident. I'm not the only one seeing this happen. Don't you think that it is helpful for people to see some of the things that are going on with The LOSs?
>"Your problem with your upline sounds like a PEOPLE/PERSON problem vs. a Quixtar/WWDB/BWW/Network 21/TOD problem. It's when you confuse the two that we IBO's tend to have a "problem"."
It is people/persons who make up WWDB/BWW/Network 21/TOD.
It's too bad that a person who simply wants to use and sell products from Quixtar to simply work for Quixtar. If I ever were to sing up, I wouldn't want any upline. Just let me work for Quixtar, period.
Oops! That should read:
It's too bad that a person who simply wants to use and sell products from Quixtar couldn't simply work for Quixtar. If I ever were to sign up, I wouldn't want any upline. Just let me work for Quixtar, period.
JC,
I still stand firm with what I said. It sounds as though you were heavily (and very easily) influenced. ONE of the problems was that, if your upline knew your situation, they were giving you poor advice based on your situation. They should have been more responsible with their advice & you should have made it clear to them.
Also, it's not an all or none proposition with tools. It's not like you have to spend hundreds a month on tools or, be a "loser/quitter" and spend nothing! There is middle ground and it changes with ones' goals and with their personal situation. Use common sense!
That really is the biggest problem with this business (and probably any business), is that some of the "upline" don't use common sense and they are out for self-gratification & some of the newbie IBO's don't use common sense & want to get rich as quickly as possible with as little EFFORT as possible. That makes for a very poor business proposition.
Rocket,
You can call it "tapespeak" or you can call it "common sense". It is what it is. And what it is, my friend, is truth!
IM,
First, I'd see if you could sign up directly. If you cannot, then you could get in and let your "upline" know that you are a PROSUMER/RETAIL and that is IT! Leave me alone about the biz! That's what you can tell them. :-) Tell them that BEFORE you sign up. If they don't respect that, go AROUND them OR move to another LOS.
Hey anon!
Always nice to hear more of what we've already heard!
Check out this link...
http://www.webraw.com/quixtar/archives/2006/07/qbs_tapespeak.php
Yeah, we're already quite a bit ahead of you, so be sure to give a ring when you catch up.
See why its called tapespeak?
Hang in there!
This is so funny, i quit Amway/quixtar 5 years ago. I haven't been on a quixtar website since. It makes me laugh to hear they are still using the same lines.
That business almost destroyed my marriage, thankfully we got out in time. Since i quit my whole upline upline (10 couples) to our platinum has quit, most broke and deep in debt.
Just wanted to add something become of a post about not knowing how to be successful if you weren't making money in this biz.
I'm now 29 and have built 3 businesses to such a point where i could retire right now and my wife has never worked and i have 4 kids.
Isn't that the amway dream, except without the amway.
Thanks for the laughs and the stroll down memory lane.
Um Rocket??? Um.....I followed the link. Got to a previous post on this site. Ummmm.....not sure what your point of the link was. Didn't give me any info. At least nothing I can "sink my teeth into".
Rocket,
"Tapespeak" per say, means they are the common sayings that are heard over & over again from stage & from various "upline". Here's the "dilema", YOU want to call it "tapespeak".
I call it "TRUTH" because I have not only heard the sayings on the "tapes" (now CD's & probably someday, MP3 or IPOD) but I've also heard/read the same sayings from our Christian radio station, from Dale Carnegies books, John Maxwell's books & cd's, Paul Tsika's books & cd's, Og Mandino's books, Stephen Covey's books, Robert Kiosaki's books, Anthony Robbin's cd's, Donald Trumps books & tv show, and many many famous athletes, etc. etc. etc.
Hmmmmm.....there must be something to that.
By the way, what do you call the common sayings by the "average joe" out on the street? You know, like our family members and many of our neighbors & fellow church goers? Sayings like: "It's good enough for me!" or "who wants all that money anyway?" or "my kids LOVE their daycare!!!" or "we can't afford for my wife to quit her job" or "we can't afford that" or "I'm too busy" or "I don't have time for THAT" or "we love our jobs..." or "we can pay our own bills so we're just fine where we're at" or "we don't need all that 'material' stuff!"(what about feeding others or clothing others or supplying OTHERS' needs???)
Yeah, and I could go on and on and on...what do you call THAT "tape" that keeps playing over & over & over again? I call that "stinkin' thinkin'" hee hee hee!!!! Another one of your favorite sayings I bet!!!!! :-)
Here's another one I hear pretty darn often, "have an awesome day!!!"
Anon
Can't blame Anon for tapespeak. Anon is allowed only to speak tapespeak by her upline.
Quixtar IBOs can't even vote in the elections b4 consulting their uplines!!!! Somehow Quixtar IBOs tie freedom of speech with financial freedom.
Anon said: I call it "TRUTH" because I have not only heard the sayings on the "tapes" (now CD's & probably someday, MP3 or IPOD) but I've also heard/read the same sayings from our Christian radio station, from Dale Carnegies books, John Maxwell's books & cd's, Paul Tsika's books & cd's, Og Mandino's books, Stephen Covey's books, Robert Kiosaki's books, Anthony Robbin's cd's, Donald Trumps books & tv show, and many many famous athletes, etc. etc. etc.
Joe says: Really, I have never heard any of those sources say quixtar has a spcecial rating from the BBB, or that quixtar has produced more millionaires than anyone else, or that people not in quixtar have a job mentality. These repetitive, and misleading junk is taught by some uplines and when newbie IBOs go around telling everying about it, it gets classified as "tapespeak" by the critics, and rightfully so.
Hey anon!
Thanks for the good laugh. The point of my link was this has already been exposed as a canned response from an Ambot/Quixbot.
You are saying nothing new here. Check out the date on the link, it was a while back.
You're kinda cute coming on here with a bunch of one liners that you think are so new and intelligent sounding.
Yes, there are some great motivational speakers. Your "leaders" are pretty much amateurs in comparison. As well, did you join a self help group or a way to make money? Soooo, you makin' a pile of money yet? No....
Your products are not comptetitive.
The main source of the income for the "leaders" is the motivation you are obviously buying.
Platinums are not making money at this.
When you are as rich as you thjink your "leaders" are without taking into account the system money, give me a shout.
Until then you are just one of many who is hoping, but will one day wake up.
You take care now, and if you get a minute, post a bunch more sayings that you've heard! It's funny.
Joe says: Really, I have never heard any of those sources say quixtar has a spcecial rating from the BBB, or that quixtar has produced more millionaires than anyone else, or that people not in quixtar have a job mentality. These repetitive, and misleading junk is taught by some uplines and when newbie IBOs go around telling everying about it, it gets classified as "tapespeak" by the critics, and rightfully so.
Anon says: NONE of those have EVER come out of my mouth! Best know what you're talking about Joey.
---------------------------------------
Rocket says: Yes, there are some great motivational speakers. Your "leaders" are pretty much amateurs in comparison. As well, did you join a self help group or a way to make money? Soooo, you makin' a pile of money yet? No....
Anon: WHAT ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT?!?!? You make NO sense whatsoever with the above statement/question....please clarify.
Rocket: Your products are not comptetitive.
Anon: Strictly YOUR opinion. I PROVE otherwise through actual DEMO's & price COMPARISONS. We actually will go online and/or to the store & COMPARE prices, quantities, quality. We come out ahead almost EVERY time. So, that's more than just my humble opinion. I have PROOF to back it up.
Rocket: The main source of the income for the "leaders" is the motivation you are obviously buying.
Platinums are not making money at this.
Anon: Please show me your PROOF of this. We actually know several Platinums personally. And we KNOW what they're making. We KNOW they're lifestyle. We KNOW that they're wives are not working outside of part-time retail customers. We KNOW where & how they live as well as what they drive.
Where & what is YOUR PROOF Rocket????? c'mon, big guy....pony up!!!
Rocket: When you are as rich as you thjink your "leaders" are without taking into account the system money, give me a shout.
Anon: Well, that's just a dumb, unintelligent statement. How am I to respond to that??? First of all, define RICH. I think you're doing damn well if you make an extra $2000 a month part time with this biz!!! That can EASILY be done by retailing. In fact, you could do $10,000 a month retailing if you really wanted to!!!!
How "rich" do you think our "leaders" are?
Again Rocket, give me PROOF. Not just opinion based on an immature response to your experience.
Anon, could you please post that price comparison for us (include sizes compared, brands, and cost per unit)? Maybe just pick your top 10 best-values or something?
It would lend your statement about the product marketability, one of my largest bones of contention outside of the whole AMO/cult thing, some credibility.
Thanks.
Wow, a little upset are we?
What am I talking about? Does Tony Robbins tell you that you need to buy a couple of motivational tapes every day (that he sells to make money from), does he tell you to buy boooks every month (that he makes money from), does he tell you to attend weekly seminars and quarterly major functions (that he makes money on)? No. Does he tell you its the only way to success, by doing all of the above, without question, and "edify" him while doing so? No. He doesn't. See the diff?
Your little price comparisons there, do you take taxes, shipping, and retail cost into account? If you do that, and still come out ahead, then you are either looking at really expensive stuff, or just taking your upline's word for it.
As far as platinums, hey, I'm just going by a comment that a platinum made on Adatudes. And by Eric Sheibler's claim that he made around $30,000 as an emerald, which didn't leave much after system expenses. And by Don Lorencz who was a diamond, who also stated that he made about as much as an Air Canada pilot as a diamond, which again, after system expenses wouldn't be any better than a job. And by Jeff Probandt who also is/was an emerald who ALSO stated that most of his money was made from system "tools". Also, Bo Short, who was a diamond also advised that most of the "leader's" income is from people like you buying into the system.
These people have nothing to gain by saying this, and I daresay they are a higher level than you presently are at. Your upline, however, does have something to gain by telling you otherwise.
If proof is what you want, I'll give you links. But if proof is what you TRULY want, then ask your upline to show you PROOF of what they claim. Have them PROVE to you that you can make $2000 a month by retailing. Have they done it? Have you done it? Until then, don't tell me it works. You prove it. I'm not even an IBO. I don't believe it is possible, and I have yet to be shown PROOF of otherwise.
You didn't ask for proof of this statement anon:
"The main source of the income for the "leaders" is the motivation you are obviously buying."
Do you want proof of that? 'Cause I'll give you a link to Quixtar's new videos that have made reference that some leaders make more from motivation than Quixtar.
Thanks for easing up on the tapespeak,..er....truth.
You shouldn't have brought up proving stuff, because in around 10 years of researching this, I have NEVER seen an IBO prove the income you claim is possible.
Maybe you'll be the first to do so?
If you want links, email me at rocketsrants@yahoo.ca
Hope to hear from you soon!
Sorry anon, I also needed clarification on this:
"In fact, you could do $10,000 a month retailing if you really wanted to!!!!"
Really? Are you? If not, do you just not want to?
Show me how...if you can.
CK,
No. I will not do that again. I have provided comparisons to JC, you (have you forgotten?), IM & Drew in the past. It gets ignored & Joe has even pretended not to receive it after already acknowledging it.
No. I will not go down that path again. Not on this site. However, privately, if you want me to email it to you, I'd be happy to. Just let me know.
Rocket,
Price comparisons have been done "live" actually. Yes, taxes, shipping & of course, retail have all been taken into consideration. Do we win every time? No! But we don't claim to either! We win most of the time. We ALWAYS tell people that OVERALL, you will save approx. 30% as a prosumer and 13% as a retail customer.
We compare to the next highest selling brand. Like SA8 vs. Tide. Or LOC cleaners vs. 409 & Clorox. We compare quantities, quality, convenience.
What do the things you quoted (after mentioning Tony Robbins) have to do with "tapespeak"? Tapespeak, per my understanding, are sayings like "attitude determines your altitude" or "the way to success is through failure" and then they go on to explain what they mean by these statements. I don't know why you mentioned the other things. Except that what the diamonds & other "higher PINS", as you like to call them, are referring to when telling you to purchase books, cds & such, is that there is tremendous power behind "association" and what you put into your mind.
It is common knowledge that who you hang with and what you read and what you watch will determine what you will become. Pretty basic stuff, Rocket.
I saw the Dateline special a couple of years ago too. When I heard that Eric S. made the decision to retire at a $30K a year income, I laughed my butt off! So did my husband! It made him look like an idiot! Then he turned around & blamed the company, Quixtar (or maybe Amway at the time, I don't know).
As far as their income claims....where's the proof?
Selling $2000 or $10000 a month....figure it out! Just ONE Time Defiance System sold at retail is a profit of $63.00! Multiply that! It's in the top five product lines in the world with breakthrough technology! Not a tough sell. I'm having great success.
10K a month? Well, just focus on the Gift & Incentive album industry for one. Sell those to businesses for their employees. Or how about people for wedding, birthday, baby & Christmas presents? That's just one area!
How about nutrition? The XS & Nutrilite lines are the among the very best in their industries! We're currently working with two different excercise franchises to handle these products. Can you imagine the profit?
Am I currently doing this? No! My primary gig (as I've made very clear in the past 6 months) has been to be a full-time mom to my two little boys. When they're in school full-time, I'll go hog wild! I won't have to go out and get a job 'cuz I have one built in! And I determine the hours. Until then, I do it part-time, around my kiddo's schedules.
However, I have been receiving an AVERAGE (sometimes it's more and it has been less) of $500-600.00 per month. This is based on prosumers who have been purchasing Quixtar products for a couple of years through us. It's also based on yes, our own purchases (gasp!) and our retail customers.
It's helped keep me home. I'd say that's a pretty darn good deal, wouldn't you?
Anon, Sure, it's a good deal I guess.
You said "Just ONE Time Defiance System sold at retail is a profit of $63.00!"
I did some quick math for your Defiance System. Looks like you'd have to sell 158 units in a month to make the 10,000. That's over 5 a day on average. It costs $199 for what appears to be 4 containers of skin cream. SKU:104175. It's not available until April 6th. That doesn't include taxes or shipping either, and I'm not certain whether that $199 is your price or retail.
In any event, you'll be pretty hard pressed to get many people to buy that with enough consistancy to fund a retirement.
Those Gift Albums I have never ever seen outside of being in Amway. Ever. You made have the odd anecdote about someone selling a huge amount of them, but for the most part, I think its safe to say that would be the exception. Who knows? Maybe you'll be the first to succeed in that area alone, and make a sustainable income that is residual and willable! Good Luck with that.
Your 30% savings as a "prosumer", I think that you're being rather liberal with your comparisons. What I experienced and what I continue to observe about "prosumers" is that they buy stuff they never bought before, for the sake of buying from themselves, and it does cost more. I have been approached to buy XS, and considered it, but then when I was quoted a price, it was almost 1$ a can more than the EAS Pirranha drink I usually have. It also would be around 5-6 days before I got it. It's more expensive, inconvenient, and inefficient. Sorry, but that rings true for most of your business.
"Tapespeak" is not what you have quoted. Now that you are aware what you are saying and how it sounds, looks like you're being a little more careful by being generic. You have said the following:
- kiddie prison
- not your group, it's someone else's
- millions of well known products. So does Sears, so does everyone else! The difference is they are more efficient and convenient! Bad for you!
- negative poster (despite at least as much accuracy as yours, yet the critics are deemed negative)
- What are you doing to contribute to society? Well, what are you doing anon? How is you buying overpriced products benefitting society?
- the system is close to being perfected. It was also close to being perfected in the mid 90's. And the 80's, I understand. Keep on believin'.
You have told me you need proof. Of what? Why does Scheibler look stupid? Have you read Merchants of Decption? It will give you a better understanding rather than just glibly commenting that he retired at $30,000 a year (with an emerald pin) If selling products was as easy as you say, he could've sold some skin cream and saved his house!
I notice you didn't comment on all the other "successful" people who decided this is not as it would appear to you lower level IBO's. Let me know if you want links!
Finally, and this is what I'm most curious about. How is it you are making "AVERAGE (sometimes it's more and it has been less) of $500-600.00 per month. "
But are not yet a 2500 pin?
You're getting me curiouser and curiouser!
Anon: “I saw the Dateline special a couple of years ago too. When I heard that Eric S. made the decision to retire at a $30K a year income, I laughed my butt off! So did my husband! It made him look like an idiot! Then he turned around & blamed the company, Quixtar (or maybe Amway at the time, I don't know).”
Wrong. He blamed his upline for counseling him to do it, not the corporation. Afterall, how would it look if an Emerald pin was not able to retire from his job? Emerald is almost always advertised as the “retirement pin” (my phrase).
As far as your retail examples go, I agree, it's possible (but isn’t everything with God?), but darned difficult. To make $2000 in profit per month, using your time defiance example, you’d have to sell 32 time defiance systems per month. That’s finding 32 people willing to spend $200 in one pop on skincare. From my experience, I was able to retail similar products to roughly 1 out of 10 people (most people I contacted prefered drug store prices to “prestige” brands). It would take a good long time to get this many repeat customers together and maintain. Customer turnover is even faster than IBO turnover many times. I had tried, often, to “retire” myself through focusing on retail. I’m a good sales person, I knew the product line (liked it too), and I’ve sold commission sales as a job before, but I was never able to maintain a customer base in Quixtar large enough to sustain myself out of a job.
All we’re saying is that, from experience, many of us know how well (or not) these products are received in the open market place. Some, better than others, but the success stories you hear are just that, stories. If people are able to market these product like crazy, why are there not more people retired from their jobs by retail alone? I know in my immediate orgainzation, our Emerald would give us examples (of people we knew crossline) of people making outrageous sales, but these same people always seemed to still struggle financially, and none of them ever retired from their jobs.
PS anon,
Since you're so big on proving stuff, then you'll want to take me up on this:
http://rocketsrants.blogspot.com/2007/01/rockets-challenge.html
That is, unless you're just posturing. One thing I have noticed about IBO's, when they're really not that comfortable with supporting their little "business", they become very aggressive and ridicule any opposition.
That's a sign of weakness, just FYI.
Anon said "Am I currently doing this? No"
Joe says: Ok, so you don't make $10,000 a month simply because you choose not to right? :)
Rocket: "I did some quick math for your Defiance System. Looks like you'd have to sell 158 units in a month to make the 10,000. That's over 5 a day on average. It costs $199 for what appears to be 4 containers of skin cream. SKU:104175. It's not available until April 6th. That doesn't include taxes or shipping either, and I'm not certain whether that $199 is your price or retail."
Anon: "That's the retail price. And it's been available for some time now. At least here in the midwest it has. I've been using it for months! I've sold SEVERAL systems!!! And the point is, with good customer service, it's REPEAT business because they use it daily, they run out & they order it again! Also, it's called EDUCATING THE CUSTOMER on our Artistry, Nutrilite, SA8, XS, Trim Advantage lines vs. the leading so-called competitors. We can't make people value their health or their skin or their time or their futures. We just inform them. It's up to them what they do with that information."
Besides Rocket, leave it to you to give the absolutely insane example of focusing only on Time Defiance sales to retire on. What a joke!!!
Rocket: "Those Gift Albums I have never ever seen outside of being in Amway. Ever. You made have the odd anecdote about someone selling a huge amount of them, but for the most part, I think its safe to say that would be the exception."
Anon: "So, because YOU have not seen alot of them, they are not being sold & used? Is that how it works, Oh all knowing Rocket? ha! You really crack me up! I actually met a gal just last year, who sells them B2B full time! She makes an average of $80-100K a year!"
Rocket:
"- not your group, it's someone else's
- negative poster (despite at least as much accuracy as yours, yet the critics are deemed negative)
- the system is close to being perfected. It was also close to being perfected in the mid 90's. And the 80's, I understand. Keep on believin'."
Anon: "Never said any of the above"
Rocket: "Why does Scheibler look stupid?"
Anon: "Because he chose to retire at that ridiculously low annual income....regardless of what his upline told him to do, HE CHOSE IT....that makes him look STUPID!"
Rocket: "I notice you didn't comment on all the other "successful" people who decided this is not as it would appear to you lower level IBO's."
Anon: "Yes I did. Read it again"
Rocket: "Finally, and this is what I'm most curious about. How is it you are making "AVERAGE (sometimes it's more and it has been less) of $500-600.00 per month. "
But are not yet a 2500 pin?
You're getting me curiouser and curiouser!"
Anon: "Curiouser is not a word, Rocket. Anyway, yes....I DID tell you how we're at that monthly payout level. Downline, our savings PLUS RETAIL CUSTOMERS...read it again." :-)
Rocket: "One thing I have noticed about IBO's, when they're really not that comfortable with supporting their little "business", they become very aggressive and ridicule any opposition."
Anon: "Who's getting aggressive? I'm just doing what you're doing. I'm defending my position. I have some stake in this. Do you? Why do you spend so much time defiling this business? I really & truly don't understand why some of you critics are here. You are no longer an IBO, or never were an IBO. So....go do something else!"
TD,
Please see some of the above that relates to your comments about Eric S. & his "retiring early" as well as your comment about retailing. I believe I addressed them in my comments to Rocket.
If not, please let me know. Thanks!
Also, no one has EVER promised that any aspect of this business is easy. Nor was any other sales endeavor I ever tried. And I worked with F50 & F100 companies. The sales were just as difficult & just as rewarding. :-)
JC,
You're a little 'thick' between the ears, aren't you Joe? I don't mean to be rude....but you always do this. I wrote out exactly why & how we're at where we're at. What didn't you understand? Please go back & read it again.
Anon
Hello Again Anon!
About the skin care, on the website it showed it was temporarily unavailable. I should've been more clear on that. Sorry.
I guess I misunderstood the following:
"Since 1999, most of the LOS's have figured out what works & what doesn't work with this type of business model (private francising). I personally believe it is close to being perfected."
and this:
"Just curious...what are YOU doing to contribute positively to our society???"
oh, and not your group, except you said:
"I know you guys have had bad experiences. You ran into some scammers. Bad people. But it does NOT make the whole bunch bad."
I think your portrayal of what the Scheibler situation was is stupid. Read Merchants of Deception. Otherwise, you're just going by a segment from Dateline and your upline's damage control response.
I did read it again. You did not comment on Don Lorencz, Jeff Probandt or Bo Short.
OK, you say you're doing well. Perhaps you'd like to take me up on my challenge then? Don't feel bad about saying no. Most IBO's do tuck tail and run when called out in a serious manner.
I'm aware curiouser is not a word. I was attempting to make myself look foolish in the hopes that it would take some of the foolishness away from your comments (which we've all heard before from other IBO's at various times).
Many critics are here because it's a hobby. I personally am here because I feel that the motivational business is a sham, it doesn't produce the results it purports, and this is a way to let others know about it. That's all. I personally don't have a problem with Quixtar other than the Corp. has allowed this to continue, despite knowing about it for a long, long time.
Devos called them system "abuses". Did you know that?
Now you do.
Wow! I heard that there was negative about the Quixtar Business on the internet, I decided to check it out for myself... I really regret letting this negitive into my life and will definately stay away from this sort of thing...
But First
Here's a message for all the awesome IBOs who are trying to understand why mean people are out there putting them down, calling them brainwashed, saying they are a joke (scam, etc, etc )... Just forget about it. Do you really want such negative junk rolling around in your brian? Garbage in never comes out. Some people will always be misinformed, and upset. (In my opinion, they would greatly benefit from the CDs) Let them keep their jobs. Keep their kids in daycare, live a life that will never affect someone in a positive way. Is it harder to build something up, or to tear it down? If you wanted to be a doctor, would you speak to the med school dropout, flunkee, someone who couldn't make it in, or never liked medicine in the first place? OR would you speak to a successful doctor?
There will always be people in life who tell you you can't. You won't. It's the "system" the "business" the "govt" "the man", whatever. It's you. If you fail it's your fault, if you succeed it was because of you. If you want to know if this biz works, sure check it out, be informed, but check reliable sources. I did my checking, but not on the internet, I asked a few of my uplines to see their checks from Quixtar. I was very impressed. There are people in this biz who give away MILLIONS of dollars to charity. To fight heart disease, to build churches and communities. To sponsor ENTIRE orphanages. Ask these people if the checks they were donated were real?
Ask the people in those communities if these IBOs made a difference in their lives? There are crossline friends of mine who talk about their upline with tears in their eyes... because these people are genuine people who have changed their lifes for the better.
Do something good for your health, stay away from this waste of time. Your family is proud of you for wanting to better their futures.
Life is a series of choices, some people choose to win... others choose to blog.
See you at the top
You tell'em, DG! Don't forget that if you dream is big enough, the facts don't matter either. Don't worry about your profits or expenses, either. That's just for those out there who don't have the business mentality. it really doesn't matter how much you spend cause it's your store, anyway!
Lastly, remember that it is only the charities that you can fund completely on your own with your HUGE donations that truly count. Gifts that all the jobbers out there give, ever so small as they may be, are a mere pitance compared to the riches all the IBO's will someday be able to give.
Go Diamond, my friend!
Rocket,
I stand by EVERYTHING I have said. Period. What part of that don't you understand?
By the way, what challenge?
I was thinking the other day, about what I wrote about the fact that who you associate with, what you watch, what you read, will affect who you become.
I have been reading these comments. I have been responding....therefore, associating with the likes of you. NOT GOOD!!!!!!!
No longer. I will do my best to stay away from this wretched site & all the crap you guys seem to keep digging up anyway & anywhere you can.
Rocket, I have more than stated where I'm at with this biz opp personally, financially, emotionally, & business-wise. I have nothing more to tell you. I am open & honest right up front. I do not hide anything! You already have all of my information. So, as far as "taking you up on your challenge"....WHY? I don't owe you anything. I already answered all of your questions.
Why don't you look at taking up a better hobby?
As far as you "exposing" the QMO's, sorry. That's a lame excuse for the fact that you currently have nothing better to do.
Why don't you use this time to be with your wife & kids (if you have them) or, if you don't, go voluteer at/with your church. Go visit seniors at a nursing home. Go serve food (donate it too, while you're at it!) at a homeless shelter. Go work with abused & negleted & abandanded animals.
All much more worthwhile causes that you can do in the same amount of time you're spending doing this.
That's what I'm going to do.
Anon
Dream Girl,
More power to you!I personally believe that the facts (all the negativity out there) really don't count becuase my dream is so big, it'll get me to the top! I haven't really kept track of my profits or losses lately, but I'm buying from myself, I've gotta be coming out ahead.
I've decided to wait until I've made it big before I decide to contribute to some of the charities I'd like to help. My gift will be so much more significant by then. After all, how could I give anything meanigful now? I'm sure that the homeless organization in my community is gonna flip when I hand them that $10,000 check! (I'm planning to do it by 2010.) It will be so awesome!
One last bit of advice Dream Girl. There is too much information here, and you may have to sift through stuff to find out the truth. (What a waste of time.)
Gotta go STP. Fired Up!
"I've decided to wait until I've made it big before I decide to contribute to some of the charities I'd like to help. My gift will be so much more significant by then. After all, how could I give anything meanigful now? I'm sure that the homeless organization in my community is gonna flip when I hand them that $10,000 check! (I'm planning to do it by 2010.) It will be so awesome!"
I find this to be a very sad statement. If you do not give when you have a little, what makes you think you will give when you have a lot? To postpone giving till you can donate 10 grand is just ridiculous. I'm sure those charities wouldn't mind DreamOn's contributions right now, instead of waiting till 2010 for $10,000 (if that ever happens). Little drops of water make a mighty ocean. Little donations add up.
In the Bible, Jesus took notice of and commended the widow who gave only two pennies when there were rich people giving large amounts around her. If this is what DreamOn is learning from his LOS, it is quite disturbing. It's like you are to put your entire life off until you go diamond. Ugh.
Hello Again anon!
It's great that you stand by everything you said, however, you seem to have a penchant for proof...Yet aren't up to the task of proving me wrong?
Further to that, you can't really stand by what you said about Don Lorencz, Jeff Probandt or Bo Short, since you didn't say anything.
You assume that I don't already do some or all of the things you listed which would serve as better use of my time.
If you have been open and honest about your business, and you are making around $500 a month, then why not show me? You say you want proof of things, yet don't seem to want to prove anything you say. That's not new either. I don't know of any gung ho IBO who has been up front about their business after stating they are making money at it.
The challenge was the link I gave you in my last post. Is that too tough for you to follow? OK, now I'll make it easier. Click on my name. The challenge is right there. Not very computer savy for someone making $500 a month with their web based business.
I will commend you, you did a great job of spin control, however, many of us see it for what it is.
Hollow mantra, canned words, and empty hope.
Um, Rara? I believe whoever "DreamOn" is, they meant it as a joke & a demeaning 'jab' at Dreamgirl. At least that's how I read it.
Anon
Rocket,
Once again, what "proof" do you want from me? Faxed copies of my checks? Wanna see my downline orders? Wanna see what my retail customers have ordered? I'm having a No-Tox party tomorrow night. I may sell nothing, or I may sell five skin care systems for a profit of almost $400.00. In one night. What is your point?????
Again too, I don't OWE you ANYTHING. How about this? I want PROOF that you gave it all you had when you were in this biz. I want PROOF that you were solid CORE for 6 months to a year, like they recommend. I want PROOF that you were 'brainwashed' into buying more tools than you should have. I want 'proof' that you were forced & threatened to take time away from your family for this business opportunity. I want PROOF that those decisions were not YOURS, they were FORCED on you.
You don't make sense Rocket.
Hollow mantra, canned words, and empty hope.....that's what this site is.
Uh-oh. I didn't think people would take me seriously! I posted as "Dream On." My original post wasn't showing up, so I added the "Dream On" post, but used a different name in case my first post DID show up. I thought everyone would realize I was being sarcastic. It seems absurd to wait to give until your gift is huge.
Nevertheless, it seems like some IBOs put off DOING certain things (usually charity- or ministry-minded) in their life until they've made it big when, in reality, they could be helping right now. Might that serving or giving at this time be somwhat of a sacrifice? Of course, but that's part of being a servant.
I am a former IBO, supposedly, anyways, I quitted quixtar for about 2 years now. Well the interesting story is that a high school classmate invited me to this so- called independent business opportunity. this was my first year in college and I did know any better yet. I was very ambitious about this fast money thing, but anways after seeing it on TV about how to be careful of scams of quixtar i told i'm classmate I am quitting and ever since I haven't seen him or talked to him. well I lost quixtar and I lost a friend.
Oops!
My apologies anon. I did not include the link in the post. I thought I had.
My mistake!
You can still click my name to see my challenge.
Anon- I didn't realize that you are the same anon who posted the price comparison.
In fact, I assumed that you weren't the same individual, since the last price comparison I saw posted was de-bunked quite handily (for example, comparing the per-use cost of convenience store, smallest-sized TIDE to the largest package of SA8).
And no, the 'profit' you are claiming on your own purchases is not profit under any accepted accounting practice, although if you are incorporated, you could have a profit on one hand and loss on the other. Assuming you are the sole share-holder (or you and your spouse hold 100% of the shares, and also operate out of the same household budget and same corporate budget), it's still a wash, though.
Are you the same anon who in various posts claimed both that you are profiting approx $500-600, and that your AmQuix income was 'sufficient to bring you home'?
If so, perhaps you could explain for us how $500-600/month replaces a full-time salary?
If not, then I guess we do have several posters with the name 'anon', and it's getting mighty confusing.
anon, even you must admit that people like Dream Girl are a problem. I am assuming, but I would bet she bought the whole "just buy from yourself and teach others to do so" crap hook, line and sinker. Of course, with little or no retailing, the chances of her ever seeing a profit is little and none. And even if she does, it is only because she built a downline that is losing money.
It also sounds like Dream Girl has left her critical thinking abilities at the door. Why would someone talk to a person who has failed at the same endeavor they are trying? Simple. Nothing talks more than experience. If I'm thinking about medical school, of course I want to talk to successful doctors, but I may want to talk to drop-outs and try and figure out why they dropped out. Perhaps then I figure out the organic chemistry knowledge needed is way passed what I possess, and either I hold off entering school, or I realize I do not have what it takes. Knowing ones limits isn't failure, and if I decide law school is better for my talents, am I go on to be a great lawyer, am I a failure for not deciding to go to med school?
Dreamgirl says: Here's a message for all the awesome IBOs who are trying to understand why mean people are out there putting them down, calling them brainwashed, saying they are a joke (scam, etc, etc )... Just forget about it. Do you really want such negative junk rolling around in your brian? Garbage in never comes out.
Ed Says: That's right Dreamgirl. Some of the garbage never comes outs. I am still trying to rid myself of some of the Garbage those tapes and CD's put in like: Don't have children until you are platinum or above, people who have jobs are blind and in a rut, and the list goes on.
DreamOn. All I can say is WOW. I almost can't believe that post wasn't just a joke.
I tell you what though, why don't you match dollar for dollar what you spend on tools to a charity until then end of 2010 and when you are done, see which you feel better about. Likely it will be the charity you helped over those four years.
I hope I was never in your group.
anon,
You may be right about the comment. But it is not much of a stretch (none at all, actually) to believe it was for real. I've seen many more bizarre comments from IBOs.
Buisness is my own, while Quixtar is the supplier of goods and services, which I alone can not develop while working full-time as an Engineer: It has been done for me by Alticore: Amazing work Alticore...
BWW provides coaching, which I need to succeed, as otherwise I have an employee mntality: Without knowledge, nothing can be achieved and spending some money on hands-on education of this high quality is worth it: Good job BWW...
Zarrar wrote: BWW provides coaching, which I need to succeed, as otherwise I have an employee mntality: Without knowledge, nothing can be achieved and spending some money on hands-on education of this high quality is worth it: Good job BWW...
Joe says: Then BWW does a poor job of coaching since the vast majority of IBOs lose money.
Zarrar wrote: "BWW provides coaching, which I need to succeed, as otherwise I have an employee mntality: Without knowledge, nothing can be achieved and spending some money on hands-on education of this high quality is worth it: Good job BWW..."
Is there a reason that common sense knowledge needs to be so repetitive and expensive?...
(Please refrain from using the college education analogy; it's like comparing apples to oranges. Also the argument that all new business owners will loose money atfirst down't hold water for me since this type of business doesn't involve high overhead such as rent, utilities, inventory, employees. Going in the red should last only a month or two...)
to Anon: don't let anybody affect your decision. and don't let anybody ruin your belief. people don't like this profession and they don't want you to be involved in it (it would be reasonable if you are entering a criminal). some people tried and failed, so they hate it. and some people don't even want to try but like bugging you. example: one of my friends and I worked in the same retail store. we both didn't really like the job, so i quit after a year and my friend's got promoted. who should I blame? the company for not promoting me, or myself didn't perform good enough to be promoted? I am not a winner, neighter a loser. I am just a quiter (on that job).
Anon, stand your ground until you proved yourself. I have to test my ability, too.
Wow...... Their are a lot of really retarded people out there.
Quixtar is a scam.
Everybody is GOD of himself...because you r responsible for your career movement....If it is going in wrong way...you have to guide your self towards right track. If you can't do it, then let the world impose each and everything on your head...and that too on their wish. So come and join us to be master of your life for more details log on www.healthylivingpvtltd.com/User Id LIV1651031 or e-mail to: enquiry@enbloc.biz (Id no.0016 )
When I was watching those videos,it appeared to me as if I'm watching "Faux News" doing PR campaign for Quixtar. Anyways, there was no mention of "AMWAY"(Strange !!!),Is it an honest mistake or deliberately omitted. It emphasizes again and again about the "a handful of critics" giving bad name to Quixtar in those videos to confuse the viewer who is not aware of Quixtar(Amway). Why not mention the amount paid to IBOs excluding diamonds, emeralds and Q12s. Is that figure gonna make Q* look bad?? The issue of uplines forcing their downlines to make monthly PV and buy BSM(including tapes,books,seminars and functions) is never addressed. If any IBO complains to Quixtar about upline forcing the IBO to buy BSM, make PV, Will Quixtar take action against the upline or will they intimidate the poor downline into silence?? What abt the issue of IBOs lying(or exaggerating facts) to prospects when showing the plan??? Too many unanswered questions!!!!
Posted by: Kicked | March 7, 2007 11:55 PM