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March 20, 2007
Leaving Quixtar
By Drew in Quixtar
Beth Dornan had a very interesting post on her blog today. It was a good story about her St. Patrick's Day nicely transitioned into a topic about Quixtar and what they want to be clear on. Now I encourage you to go over and read the whole article, but in a nutshell Beth says Quixtar wants everyone to know what Quixtar is all about. Here is a quote from her article explaining this position:
"Our business is open to just about anyone but it isn't for everyone. Moving forward, we want IBOs who choose not to continue their businesses to do so because the business wasn't for them....not because it wasn't what they were led to believe it was. We want the sign at the door to be clear about what's inside."
Personally I think this is something that will be difficult for Quixtar to ensure since they basically have to trust that their IBOs are in fact making things clear about what is on the inside. So I would like to hear from those of you who are current IBOs or former IBOs. Were things made clear for you about what was on the inside, or did you find yourself involved in something else once you were in? Give some examples about what you were told, and what, if anything, was different once you were inside.
Comments
Well, that's about the crux of it isn't it. You have a bunch of former IBOs being critical of the opportunity all complaining about much the same things - deceit, pressure, etc etc, and plenty of other IBOs and former IBOs who seem to have had no problems and don't feel the need to complain.
My main problem with "critics" has all along not been they have nothing to complain about, it's the refusal of many of them to accept that perhaps other people haven't had the same experience they've had.
The same of course goes for some IBOs.
IB/insider/ibifightback:
The problem lies with jerks like you who attack the critics and ignore the problem of abusive uplines. If that's not your experience, then fine, but apparently in a huge LOS like Rara was in, hundreds of thousands of IBOs heard what she heard. Why do the complaints linher? Because NOTHING was done to address these issues.
Why do you think there are supporters continuing to break quixtar/scamway rules and nothing is done? Where do you think new IBOs get the idea that the better busines bureau has granted quixtar special status?
But insider, you are a freaking liar and cannot be trusted, just like you lied to people on quixtarwiki that you were given "expert" status by Qblog critics.
Sure you lie and downplay the incident, but we all know you're will lie to accomplish your agenda, whatever that is. It's why you deserve to be exposed by Qblog and I hope he does it.
I just attended a meeting. There are a few things going through this entire process thus far that I can identify factually as deceptive tactics. I am a professional sales consultant and am privy to many tricks of the trade and mental tactics used in persuasion. What's funny with me is that since I know most of the sales games, when I spot them being used on me I turn negative to whatever is being sold. Just natural reaction I suppose. I had a first meeting, and there were many questions about me, my family, where we are from, many details were mined from me on day one. I didn't really have time to ask any questions about the business. He looked at his watch and said that he was really pressed for time. Hmm.. He said that he would like to set another "interview" with his boss or business partner to go over things more throughly. That this meeting was just preliminary. I had the feeling of being cut off, so we set up a time again to meet, and this was the seminar. Ok, so I arrive at the seminar with my wife, and the entire time I could not explain why we were going. I really didn't know what I was going to see. I told her it was an opportunity to make passive income. It involves sales, so I'm interested. He also told me that when I get there, to not worry about the money on the table, that I would have a reservation. I was a bit confused by that statement, but took it for what it was worth. Now after some research I realize that there is an ongoing payout for those IBO members to attend that seminar. Wow...they had to pay for that...The business is from what I can gather, selling other people a system of buying products for themselves and duplicating this process a billion times to make a decent monthly profit. It doesn't seem feasible. The never mentioned their heritage with Amway. The guy trying to get me into this Told me that they sell business models to other businesses that need our services. Such as the super awesome portal quixtar.com. They feverishly spat out stats, statistics, success stories at an unbelievable rate with high energy. Such as the e-commmerce market is at a critical mass. What is critical mass that asked? Well its when a market reaches 17% market share in one giving industry it leaps to over 78% market share in a few years. Hmm...smells like a hook to get me to believe in this for just that long. Maybe just long enough to make a nice hefty investment in all the later expenses and then throw it in the trash in 1-2 years time and blame myself for not succeeding. It did resemble a revival meeting. My wife sitting next to me even made that comment. Made relating stories about the cell phone industry, Ray Croc's Macdonalds duplication and franchising. They mention that they were in several different industries and they are now into ecommerce. They never came back to talk about what other industries they were in. Well it went from me thinking one thing and not really being able to even explain it to the woman I sleep with every night, to a seminar and not being anything related to selling business models to other business, just signing up other IBO's, oh and the most important part, continually buying their products each month to get my points. I am not knocking the system, as I can see how it could work. Simple, just dupe other people into coming to the seminar and have them get sold on the system, and hope they don't do any research and find out their ancient past with amway. Have them pay the 200$ and try to be their own business owner and sell their off name brand products to themselves. Simple, if I could dupe like a 100 people, I would be gold. Having many down streams. But then comes the age old question, is that ethical? Could I do that to my friends and family? I don't think I would, and If I cant sell something to my own friends then I don't want any part in selling it. Thats it. Calling the guy today to tell him no thanks have a nice life in the billionaire club.
My experience being a Quixtar powered business owner has been very good.
The people I am around are of good, professional conduct and have a sincere desire for wanting more out of life. These people reach out to people with similar interests.
Basically, what I have been told by my sponsor when I met him, made sense and was inline with the presentation of the concept as given by a senior business owner.
Here is what it all boils down to: you have a buying power and you spend money but get none back. Would you like to learn how to turn your buying power into a financial asset as opposed to a financial liability you are in right now? Would you like to shop from places that pay you cash versus just points programs? If I can teach you how to duplicate yourself by following the frachising model and generate $ 250.000 based on your own desire to achieve that and more, would you go for it or just give up and live struggling over financial matters?
Stated plain and simple. Made perfect sense. I wasn't like "oh, you know, let me see why that doesn't seem possible". People who have that attitude, have a lack of common sense and that's fine... this business is not for everyone. What is really surprising is when they build upon that lack of common sense and create a tragedy that sounds almost intelligible which is nothing but a lecture in failure.
So, yes. Everything I was told, good and bad, is inline with what I have discovered about this business opportunity.
I agree. The upline organizations are the ones who really screw up the Quixtar business by not being upfront with prospects. Tricking people into a business isn't building anything. But until someone comes up with a way to build it without the upline and their massive tools business it will not change. It's a good business. And it's not for everyone. But the bad stuff happens because of these uplines in my opinion. Just look at the P&G vs. Haugen suit that Haugen lost a couple of days ago. Amway or Quixtar didn't do anything wrong. It was the diamond out in the field who screwed up and caused this damage. How would you like to be in that guy's group now?!?!
rara: I completely agree with you, I was in BWW and we never use to call Quixtar as Quixtar but 'the business'.
The IBOs are pissed off at us bcos truth is on our side.
And the problem with insider/ibofightback/quixtar is they incessantly whine about the critics but take no real corrective action to fix the root of the problems.
Insider/IBO-fightback wrote - "plenty of other IBOs and former IBOs who seem to have had no problems and don't feel the need to complain."
Translation - IF those IBOs have not complained, they are all happy. i.e. IF you have had a bad experience with AmQuix Bidnez, you are DEFINITELY going to go on the Quixtar-Blog and all the other 'critical' blogs, and complain about it.
Thanks for clearing that up for us, Mr. Logic. Oh, my bad. It's actually, Your Holiness, the Dalai-Lama-of-MLM-Amway-Quixtar.
Hi!
I am an IBO who is absolutly thrilled with Quixtar. I just got a huge bonus, much bigger than I thought it would be... And a huge raise at work because I have learned so much about positive speach, positive thinking and motivating teams. When I joined i was told about the 6.4.2 buisness plan, and a chance to (if I so choose) improve my self through the education system. It has worked out so much better that I eveer imagined. I have never met people who are willing to go through the thick and the thin with me, people so caring and completely on my side. When I became so ill I couldn't get out of bed for 2 weeks none of my so called friends could be bothered, but my uplines and my downlines came to my aid. If someone has a bad experience, I'm sorry it didn't work out for you, you might try a different team... But for me It has been great!
IBOFB, of course not everyone has had the same experience. However, don't you think it is a good idea to expose the "bad apples" of this business so that in the future Quixtar can be a better opportunity for anyone who wants to get in? I think some of the critics will agree with with me when i say it's not so much Quixtar we have a problem with it is the motivational system abuses.
If it were true that the corp wanted 'the sign on the door to be clear about what's inside', then the corp would sanction and/or expel those who are working at odds to that goal, even at the risk of lower profit margins.
They don't.
Ergo, it's a lie. This time being told by the corp itself.
I wonder where they learned that?
If it were true that the corp wanted 'the sign on the door to be clear about what's inside', then the corp would sanction and/or expel those who are working at odds to that goal, even at the risk of lower profit margins.
They don't.
Ergo, it's a lie. This time being told by the corp itself.
I wonder where they learned that?
If it were true that they want it to be clear what is on the inside, they would say this is an opportunity to join a website where you can buy and sell products and make some money. Not the typical approach that the IBOs use like "I would like you and your wife to meet with my business associates and I to discuss a new business opportunity that we are starting. I think you would be perfect to help us get this business going." The truth is the "bidness" has been going on since about 2001 on the internet, but they are using the same old tactics that they used when it was Amway. And of course, they do everything they can to not mention Amway because people in the past had problems with that AMO system. The AMO system may have adapted its media to the latest, but the tactics of "not telling the whole story up front" are still the same. No, you don't see everything clearly at the door because if you did, no one would really want to come in. Sad.
So, Insider, you want us to believe that of the how many that quit each year? 300,000 or so, only those few here have had a bad experience?
What I would like to know is of those 300,000 that quit, how MANY were Platinums and above?
How many were "IN" for 3 years? 5 years? 10 years?
300,000 quit every year and how many Diamonds each year? 10? 15? 20? 25? Doesn't live up to the expectation they project.
I'll BET EVERY one of those 300,000 that quit, were told THEY could become Diamond in 2-5 years.
How many were "IN" for 5 years or more? 3 years or more? 10 years or more?
THAT would be interesting stuff. Since you're the guy with all the statistics, tell us.
This business will take 20 years to regain whatever good reputation they may have had in the past, no matter how much "accreditation" you give it.
In fact, one look at their website, it looks like AMWAY itself is getting into the "Dream Big" aspect of this business.
Looks like they are re-establishing themselves as the head "Cultmasters"; the TOP of the PYRAMID
Christian,
"If I can teach you how to duplicate yourself by following the frachising model and generate $ 250.000..."
So you have a UFOC for us for the franchise. Since this is a franchise, are we given the same protections that a standard franchise system has in most states?
Oh, the answer is no? So you shouldn't really be using the term franchising, should you? A more appropriate term would be network maketing.
The only way for you to be successful is to dupe enough people to buy overpriced, mediocre products so that you can get money back. Sounds like a real ethical business. Perhaps a more appropriate description should be ponzi scheme.
In my case, my experience with Quixtar wasn't so nice and dandy like the success stories they tell you 1000 times to read, read and read. I was very surprised to find out how little or no profit the guys just above me had made in such a long period of time. My team (let's call it like that because I really haven't worked with them at all yet, neither plan to) well, my team, formed by a college friend and his friend, always gave me all those nice speeches about making passive money, quitting my job after so-and-so years and having a great lifestyle. So obviously, I wanted to know how much profit each of them have made so far. I asked my friend directly if he already made up for his membership fee, and he kept silence. His friend jumped in and said that this is a long-term business and it takes time. So then, since that guy has being in the business for more than 2 years, I asked him how much is he making, he was speechless. He went around in circles, not answering my question, so I politely asked to just give me an approximate number. He said a little over $100 a month.
Thus I have to agree with Mrs. Dornan, this business is not for everyone...if I have to live everyday on protein shakes for breakfast, meal replacement bars for lunch, and "investing" all my money buying products from myself to end up making less than working 10 hours per week at McDonalds, then this business is definetely not for me.
Corey: I just attended a meeting. There are a few things going through this entire process thus far that I can identify factually as deceptive tactics. I am a professional sales consultant and am privy to many tricks of the trade and mental tactics used in persuasion. What's funny with me is that since I know most of the sales games, when I spot them being used on me I turn negative to whatever is being sold.
Anon: YOU CRACK ME UP!!!!! Whew! You sound fresh from the farm & 'wet behind the ears'!!! First of all, get some typing skills. Business Writing 101.
Corey, HOW do you know all those "sales tricks" & mind games & such??? Because you USE them perhaps??? On those who are stupid enough to be conned into meeting with you???? And you probably have seen these tactics before because they're used by every company who has ever advertised or had a retail storefront!!!!! Helloooooo! It's called MARKETING!!!!!!!
Corey honey,
So, you're basing all this on ONE short meeting & a seminar????? If you actually do some research, you'd find the necessary data to backup 90% of what the speakers present. Talk to the "business partners" (the top dogs, of course). See what they have to say. Look at some third party websites that are involved in this particular industry & see what they have to say about Quixtar.
Do some intelligent & thorough research.
I've been in sales & marketing for almost 20years. Been a global account rep as well as a sales manager. I've not seen anything deceptive or unethical about this business. In fact, just the opposite. And the sales "techniques" we are being taught by WWDB in training sessions, are almost identical to the ones I went to througout my sales career with highly reputable organizations.
Take another look Corey before you blow your own personal reputation with misinformation.
Kendall is right. Franchise is not the word you should be using. You do not have a circular (UFOC), and are not bound by the franchising laws and regulations.
In addition, if all you are doing is buying from yourself and teaching others to do so, either you or your downline will never make enough money to retire. It is simple math. If when you sign up, you are spending say $100/month on products and only getting $3 back on your own purchases (no downline), every month, your bank account goes down by $97. If you recruit 6 people to be your downline (all directly under you/each with no downline of their own), your financial situation will improve, but there are now six people in the same situation you were in formerlly, i.e. spending $100 to get $3 back. If they each recruit six, you are doing much better, but there are now 36 people all spending $100, just to make $3 back. It's called geometic expansion, and eventually, rather quickly, there simply aren't enough people left for anyone to recruit as their downline.
Anon, after you've caught your breath, perhaps you could answer some questions with regard to your last post?
Anon writes: "If you actually do some research, you'd find the necessary data to backup 90% of what the speakers present."
1)Could you give some specific examples of the data to support the speakers' assertions? For example, specifically, perhaps you could explain for us all what a "franchise" is, and then explain how that would be relevent to Q, since that's one of the points that seems to have stuck in Corey's craw?
anon: "Look at some third party websites that are involved in this particular industry & see what they have to say about Quixtar."
2)Could you please explain to which industry you are referring (franchising? MLM? other?), and then provide the address for a few third party websites? No, I don't mean the website of other participants who have a vested financial interest, I mean actual, third-party websites.
Anon: "Take another look Corey before you blow your own personal reputation with misinformation."
3)Could you please explain for us the misinformation, specifically, to which you are referring, and then explain to us how Corey could be 'blowing his own personal reputation' by disagreeing that the information is accurate or valid?
Anon: "First of all, get some typing skills. Business Writing 101."
And finally, number 4, could you please explain how Corey's lack of punctuation is fundamentally different from, or worse than, your own inability to communicate without capitalizing random words and over-punctuating nearly half of what you write?
Thank you.
Quite frankly, I appreciated reading Corey's story. It's always interesting to hear what people think after attending an open meeting, especially when they have a background in business.
I thought what he wrote made a lot of sense. I will admit that a few paragraphs breaks would have made it easier to read. On the other hand,I'd rather read his post than one that is condescending and overuses exclamation points and question marks.
Anon Wrote: "Corey, HOW do you know all those "sales tricks" & mind games & such??? Because you USE them perhaps??? On those who are stupid enough to be conned into meeting with you???? And you probably have seen these tactics before because they're used by every company who has ever advertised or had a retail storefront!!!!! Helloooooo! It's called MARKETING!!!!!!!"
Well I'll be..... Anon admits they are using tactics "On those who are stupid enough to be conned into meeting with you".
So I guess when we were supposed to tell people that we are looking for 1 maybe 2 sharp people to expand a business with, we were really lying to ourselves. (Them too)
This, along with the pitiful chances of this business going anywhere (which none of the advocates seem to really want to talk about) is why I believe this business will continue to struggle with the response of "Is this Amway?". After a few more years, insert Quixtar.
If IBO's would focus more on "Marketing" their brand and creating brand excellence instead of pumping this up to be more than it is, then respect would raise as Quixtar does have some very nice exclusive products.
CK,
Wow. You really are an arrogant & nasty person after all, aren't you? I don't even know why you're interested in this subject. You're not even involved from what I understand. Neither is IM! What's the deal????
Here are some answers to your questions:
1)Franchise (from dictionary.com): a)the right or license granted by a company to an individual or group to market its products or services in a specific territory.
b)to grant (an individual, company, etc.) a franchise: The corporation has just franchised our local dealer.
c)a privledge of a public nature conferred on an individual, group, or company by a government: a franchise to operate a bus system.
d)the territory over which such a license extends.
CK, I don't see anywhere in Corey's write-up as to where the term 'franchise' is "stuck in Corey's craw" so I don't know where you got that idea.
Quixtar provides individuals with an IBO number (license) which allows said IBO to sell Quixtar products & services. The IBO has to sign a contract in order to make the IBO number (license) valid. Pretty simple.
2) I am referring specifically to the industry of e-commerce. Some third party websites to check out are: www.hsdent.com; www.internetretailer.com; www.emarketer.com; www.alangreenspan.com to start.
3) The misinformation to which I am referring are the assumptions he is making with what he heard at the seminar. For example, to quote Corey:
"The business is from what I can gather, selling other people a system of buying products for themselves and duplicating this process a billion times to make a decent monthly profit."
Assumption on his part. I am referring to the latter part of his statement. For example, we are trained on heavy retail sales. Make our downline money right away. Profit profit profit!
Quote #2: "Hmm...smells like a hook to get me to believe in this for just that long. Maybe just long enough to make a nice hefty investment in all the later expenses and then throw it in the trash in 1-2 years time and blame myself for not succeeding. It did resemble a revival meeting. My wife sitting next to me even made that comment."
Again, a VERY assumptive statement on his part. And with what info. to back it up??? What experience??? Revival meeting??? Where on earth did he go?
Quote #3: "Simple, just dupe other people into coming to the seminar and have them get sold on the system, and hope they don't do any research and find out their ancient past with amway. Have them pay the 200$ and try to be their own business owner and sell their off name brand products to themselves. Simple, if I could dupe like a 100 people, I would be gold. Having many down streams."
Ok. He's just regergitating a bunch of info. that he's either read or heard. He hasn't had any experience in this industry so how can he come to these conclusions? Why does he use the word "dupe"? That's just insulting! I bet the guy who invited him was nothing but businesslike, personable & cordial. But this Corey dude is sounding like a 7th grader! And what's up with referring to Amway??? So what? Amway is a sister company. Everybody knows that! Get over it already! And, finally, him saying 'downstreams' instead of 'downline' just shows he has no clue what he's talking about!
4) Sorry if you're insulted by my exclamation points & question marks & capitalized words. That's just how I express the feelings behind the words. Didn't mean to "insult" anybody.
#4 was for you too, IM.
Anon
P.S. IM, you said: "It's always interesting to hear what people think after attending an open meeting, especially when they have a background in business."
What makes you think he has a background in business? Because he SAID that he did? What proof?
"Quixtar IBO, Tim Foley said, "One of the things that I’ve enjoyed most about the business is that anybody can succeed in it. It is dependent on your ability to learn and perform. People are looking for a way to increase their income today. And people are looking for a way that is flexible, that’s not 9–5. Something they can control and something they can manage. It’s just an exceptional opportunity today and a great time to get started.""
http://www.quixtar-business-ibo.com/blog/_archives/2006/1/3/1601847.html
"Were things made clear for you about what was on the inside..."
Yes.
My first open was shown by an emerald.
He mentioned:
Quixtar, BWW, even tool profits! He detailed that core line products (Artistry, Nutrilite, etc) earned 1PV : ~$2-3, Store For More 1PV:$4-6, and Partner Stores 1PV:$10-12. (Yes, he did, IN THE PLAN)
I was told of the return policy for Quixtar and BWW tools. Both of which I have taken advantage of, and received full refunds INCLUDING shipping, just as advertised with no hassles.
I have not been refused help by my Q12 when not attending open meetings, when getting on or off SOT, and/or doing any level of personal purchases, including no personal purchases.
So, yes, it has been as advertised and everything was up front from day one for me. This is not to say it is like that everywhere, but I am giving an example of a group within BWW that did not act in the way some critics claim all groups, especially BWW, act.
(Taken from http://www.ftc.gov/bcp/franchise/netdiscl.htm)
"Fifteen states have franchise investment laws that require franchisors to provide pre-sale disclosures, known as "offering circulars," to potential purchasers. Thirteen of these state laws treat the sale of a franchise like the sale of a security. They typically prohibit the offer or sale of a franchise within their state until a franchise offering circular has been filed on the public record with, and registered by, a designated state agency. Two of the fifteen states do not require a filing of offering circulars, as noted in the list of state offices below.
These state laws give franchise purchasers important legal rights, including the right to bring private lawsuits for violation of the state disclosure requirements. We encourage potential franchise purchasers who reside in these states to contact their state franchise law administrators for additional information about the protection these laws provide."
Anon, since I live in California and you are selling "franchises", you can provide me a Quixtar UFOC for me, right?
Please quit making yourself look foolish and be honest. You are not selling franchises. You a distributor for Quixtar. I know you call it Independant Business Owner, but you're not really even that.
Hey Brad
you had said something that caught my attention:
"Quixtar, BWW, even tool profits!"
So you had tools profits shown as part of the plan?
OK, so how much does a platinum make off of a cd? From one of their downline attending a seminar?
Unless you were shown PRECISELY what the profits made are, you weren't shown a darn thing.
I'm sure Quixtar would be VERY interested as to who exactly was the person showing tools profits as part of the marketing plan.
Care to tell us here?
Thought so...
Never mind the "independent", it's questionable as to whether some of these folks are even business owners.
IMO, a commissioned salesperson is a more accurate description of most people who are involved with this business.
ibofightback said "My main problem with "critics" has all along not been they have nothing to complain about, it's the refusal of many of them to accept that perhaps other people haven't had the same experience they've had."
Joe says: Oh no, many of us accept that there are some good organizations out there. The problem is that it would appear that the corporation is well aware of the groups that do abuse and deceive their downline, yet no substantial corrective action has taken place. Apparently, some organtizations have shunned accreditation and to what consequence is there?
IMO, AQMOs should not be allowed to sell tools until they are accredited, and even that might not be enough.
Kendall said: "You are not selling franchises. You a distributor for Quixtar. I know you call it Independant Business Owner, but you're not really even that."
Anon: "Kendall, I have been nothing but honest & forthright with everything from day one. I never ever said I sell franchises. Where did you get that? Please refrain from putting words into my mouth. Thank you.
Here's what I tell people we do, Kendall: In a nutshell, "I rep products for a privately held company by the name of Quixtar. I have my own online website or people can purchase through the catalog. Whichever they prefer. I rep several top of the line, exclusively marketed products (and say a little about Artistry, Nutrilite & XS, you know, the stats) and then I also inform them about the millions of brand name products that they can purchase at same or less prices. I invite them to shop & compare!" Next week I am meeting with another mom because I have shown her products & prices from two partner stores that beats the prices at Target & Walmart!
This has been extremely successful. Recently, I have also started having "No-Tox" parties (if you're up on Quixtar, then you know what these are). I have 3 scheduled within the next month. Very fun & successful!
So Kendall, hope that clears things up for you.
Anon
Although I'm not an IBO, and I'm not too fond of the Quixtar plan (I was showed the plan by a few of my friends through TEAM), I think I need to make this point to what ibofightback said:
"My main problem with "critics" has all along not been they have nothing to complain about, it's the refusal of many of them to accept that perhaps other people haven't had the same experience they've had."
True, you may not have the same experiences as someone else in the business, and you may think your upline is great, but from looking around the site, it seems that there is a lot of upline problems going around the business. Learning about these problems can help you make sure that it doesn't happen in your group.
I know someone is saying, "But that will NEVER happen to me! My upline is ALWAYS honest with me!" You may think that, but if you really believe in the "business", you will work to make sure that it doesn't happen. Ask questions, don't take anything at face value, and make SURE your upline is being COMPLETELY honest.
I believe this is true for ANY business, not just the Quixtar plan. Know the rules, follow the rules, and enforce the rules. Learn from the experiences of others; experience is the best teacher available.
Anon wrote: "What makes you think he has a background in business? Because he SAID that he did? What proof?"
Hey Anon, What makes you think the diamonds/Kingpins are not making huge huge huge money on tools business?? What makes you think they are not duping innocent people?? Just because they said they don't!!!! What proof ????
So what is a "No Tox" party?
That's interesting, anon. I'm arrogant and nasty, apparently because I pointed out the similarities between your own over-punctuated writing style, and Corey's lack thereof.
Yet you were the one who jumped all over Corey first, and I was merely suggesting that the pot ought be more careful whom it calls black.
Or maybe I'm arrogant and nasty because I gave you the opportunity to clarify your post, in which you made many claims but provided no references?
I guess now I'll continue in that vein, as I point out that your websites are all in regard to e-commerce, which for Q is merely a new, glorified ordering method for the same tired business model - Q is similar to ecommerce like the old Amway was similar to the tele-communications industry. They both employed the technology.
I'll also point out that your definitions of franchise complete neglected to specify that franchise, at least in the US, is a legally defined and regulated industry. Either you knew that and were being deliberately obtuse in posting the dictionary.com definition, or you are unaware of the fundamental and very important differences between your own network marketing model, and a legally operating franchise.
Whether ignorance or neglect, the chronic comparisons by those showing 'the plan' of Ray kroc and other franchise models to the Q plan (especially when it manifests itself as primarily a "buy from yourself and teach others to do the same", as the meeting Corey attended apparently did), only serves to further the critics contempt for those who prommulgate or defend the deception.
I don't like being lied to, and I don't like for others to be lied to.
If that makes me arrogant and nasty, I stand condemned.
IM,
Artistry has an anti-aging skin care line called Time Defiance. The theme of these focused parties is "No-Tox". It's a play on words because we recommend proper skin care vs. getting Bo-tox or microdermabrasion or chemical peel treatments. Those are very expensive and temporary. They don't "fix" the problem. They make it appear as though there is no problem for a couple of months or less.
You can check this info. out at www.quixtar.com.
Take care,
Anon
A No-Tox Party is a merchandising effort to sell Artistry Anti-aging and/or dermatological procedure replacement products through at home get-togethers for women - often called Beauty Breaks. Unfortunately, as with other specialty Artistry parties, the merchandising KIT alone is $85.00, NON_REFUNDABLE. This includes a few CDs and some pamphlets, some samples, a 'host script' and some invitations. The products you are marketing include a microdermabrasion kit, which retails at $75.00, and the intensive treatment serum, which retails at $205.00. These two products will give you the biggest bang for your PV buck.
Although these parties can be profitable with the right clients (those with $$), they aren't cheap to host, considering the cost of the merchandising kit, refreshments of some sort (typically from 'your business'), and your time (3-4 hour for the session, plus planning). I had a few successful Beauty Breaks when I was in the business, but when I considered all the time I put into making them successful, the profits were low.
O rocket... ever the antagonist. If you didn't say the sky was "azure blue" on the third Wednesday of the month of February then you weren't correct.
He mentioned tool profits. Many here claim that doesn't happen. It does.
To Techie:
You said "but from looking around the site, it seems that there is a lot of upline problems going around the business"
Quantify this: how many critics are their voicing their experiences, of what systems, over what time frame, and in comparison to IBO opposition voices as well as current IBO numbers. It is a small group with a loud platform you have found at Webraw.
Well, my goodness, Disenchanted....someone has done her homework! Good for you!
Yup. Profit can be made. After all, isn't that what we're in business for?
Disenchanted said: "Although these parties can be profitable with the right clients (those with $$), they aren't cheap to host, considering the cost of the merchandising kit, refreshments of some sort (typically from 'your business'), and your time (3-4 hour for the session, plus planning). I had a few successful Beauty Breaks when I was in the business, but when I considered all the time I put into making them successful, the profits were low."
Anon: "The same thing can be said of Mary Kay, Arbonne, Avon, Tastefully Simple, Pampered Chef, Partylite Candles & any other MLM-type hobby business out there. The main difference between my business and all the ones I just mentioned.....we have thousands more products/product lines to offer."
Disenchanted, there is risk to anything. Yup! I bought the kit. I stand the chance of not selling a thing. Or, I could make hundreds of dollars in profit which MORE than pays for the kit. Also, one kit supports at least 3-5 parties. Do the math. With a little effort, one could make a tidy little monthly paycheck. :-)
By the way, I feel really really good about exposing all the info. about Nutrilite & Artistry to other women. I feel very strongly that I am sharing information that could make a huge, positive difference in their lives.
Thanks,
Anon
Brad: He mentioned tool profits. Many here claim that doesn't happen. It does.
Joe: Brad, you compleetly missed Rocket's point. He asked for a breakdown on the profits. There is a mention of tools profits but there is not written plan on how to qualify and how much you get when you qualify.
In other words, where the QMO's version of an SA 4400?
That is something that is currently front-and-center in the PDAP and Opportunity Zone. I am anxiously awaiting it as well. But I don't let that excuse prevent me from making money in product sales in the mean-time. :-)
Brad: *That is something that is currently front-and-center in the PDAP and Opportunity Zone. I am anxiously awaiting it as well. But I don't let that excuse prevent me from making money in product sales in the mean-time. :-)*
Joe: I visited the Adatudes blog and I like that they freely give out information and encourage discussion. However, that being said, it doesn't seem like the PDAP is going to have any effect on the big QMOs.
"Joe: I visited the Adatudes blog and I like that they freely give out information and encourage discussion. However, that being said, it doesn't seem like the PDAP is going to have any effect on the big QMOs. "
Really? Perhaps you didn't hear about Crowe/Dussault leaving BWW to pursue their interests, to include Accreditation? BWW will get accredited one way or another: they will do it themselves, or they will dissolve into many smaller groups who decide PDAP is a good thing on their own...
I'm fine with either.
Anon: "The same thing can be said of Mary Kay, Arbonne, Avon, Tastefully Simple, Pampered Chef, Partylite Candles & any other MLM-type hobby business out there. The main difference between my business and all the ones I just mentioned.....we have thousands more products/product lines to offer."
Add Parklane and Lia Sophia jewelry parties to that as well.
I have some coleagues who sell these products. I asked them once how much inspirational/ motivational stuff is offered to them to buy to start their business. They said there is a minimal number of tapes/videos explaining the best way to promote their products, but that was about it.
I then asked then if there was a formula for them to see if they were making a profit each month, and they said of course there was. That was made totally clear.
They all began coming out ahead within have a couple of parties. Meanwhile, another colleague of mine, involved in WWDB for the past five years doesn't seem to be much farther ahead and is running herself ragged.
Why does it take so long for Quixtar IBO's to come out ahead? Why is it so hard for IBOs determine profits and losses?
I wanted to help my mother-in-law celebrate how much closer she might be getting to reaching her goal, um, I mean achieving her dream of buying a fishing boat, but she was so hesitant to compare profits and expenditures we never were able to figure it all out.
Artistry products are awesome...
SA-8 has already got Number 1 Ranking in North America twice, including past year...
e-Spring incredibly superb...
At the beginning, one only gets overview information about anything in life and details come later...
One need not be Worldwide Whinner...
As an IBO, I make it clear to my associates and prospects what's involved in creating a business like this. We also clarify the importance of retail sales and legitimate customer volume reporting because that's essentially what differentiates this business from an illegal pyramid.
I was extraordinarly skeptical about this business and did plenty of research and read plenty of "anti-Amway" and "anti-Quixtar" literature before pursuing the opportunity.
As a business system it is genius. Whether people choose to apply themselves to the system is a personal decision. One's results will reflect their efforts. There's nothing wrong with the Quixtar system itself.
There is an error in the decision-making of IBOs. That is, whether they choose to apply themselves or not.
There is also room for corruption in the training systems (particularly with the cost of some business support materials), as has been so popularly pointed out. Like some others, I think this ought to be regulated by the Quixtar corporation, though that is not an easy feat.
Some things to consider, however, is to first understand that the instructional aids available to help you with your business are Investments for your business. All businesses have tools that require an investment in order to make a business work. I own a business outside of Quixtar, and this is plainly obvious...in fact, the investment expenses for a Quixtar business are extraordinarly small compared to most traditional business investments.
Another consideration is that those making money from the tools ought to. They got to where they are through their experience and sharing that experience in the form of tools is valuable. It goes with the nature of the business.
Brad "Really? Perhaps you didn't hear about Crowe/Dussault leaving BWW to pursue their interests, to include Accreditation? BWW will get accredited one way or another: they will do it themselves, or they will dissolve into many smaller groups who decide PDAP is a good thing on their own..."
Joe: I bet they are saying that but think about this... Now they can create their own (accredited) tools and get a bigger piece of the pie.
It's still leave BWW unaccredited and if they are leaving - can we guess it's because BWW doesn't plan to get accredited?
Joe, how much of BWW is left? Winters left, Crowe is leaving, Renfrow has pulled way back, if not completely left as well, Gala of India pulled his million IBOs away... BWW is not holding together the group very well... If they are not accredited, those left will probably pull to... or perhaps IBOs below diamond will look elsewhere, perhaps to www.IBONetwork.com!! (And yes, that company admits they are in business, for profit... they will be making money on IBO tool purchases...)
Things are changing, JoeCool... you can discuss the changes, or keep bringing the same old stuff up over and over again...
Brad said "Things are changing, JoeCool... you can discuss the changes, or keep bringing the same old stuff up over and over again..."
Joe says: Tell me what is changing Brad. Diamonds breaking away to go form their own tools company is not new. The only difference is they have a good "excuse" to break away - which is supposedly to become accredited.
Sure they talk about tools profits - does anyone know exactly when they qualify and for how much? Is there a written compensation plan available to IBOs which is presented when the plan is shown?
Brad, it just looks like a wolf in (new) sheep's clothing.
I am a former IBO. To the distributors on this forum who claim to be successful let me challenge you to look at your own financial balance sheet or tax form. Are you excited abot that big bonus check but ignoring the huge expenditures in tools and travel? Do you look at your tax form and feel good about not paying taxes because of the "great write offs" on your schedule C?
For most of you you would be far better off finding a good set of products to market and if you build organizations build them out of people that will sell the products. If you don't believe it, run the numbers on doing 7500 PV personally every month, and ask a direct at the 7500 level what they make. Oh, that's right - they won't tell you! Oh yeah, the reason is that they are not making what they claim can be made at the 7500 level in the plan.
The original intent of the plan was that people would sell product, not just build personal use organizatons. If you sell product and find a few people who will do the the same you can profit in this business. The numbers don't lie.
The only way to reform this business is to take the profit out of the tool sales. If you think that your standing order material is fairly priced look on eBay and see what it is worth per pound.
This business began as a wonderful concept, and could still be one. The problem is that it has been corrupted by the tool business and a move away from sales. The odds of it ever getting back to its fundamentals are slim to none. What a shame.
To those of you that think I am spewing negative I challenge you not to dispute what I have written but to take the time to check out the facts and ask the questions that your upline doesn't want to answer. If they refuse to disclose it is for no other reason than that they don't want you to know the facts.
There is plenty of opportunity in this world. Don't let your upline convince you that Quixtar/Amway is the only opportunity or the best opportunity. It is neither.
Anonymous,
Excellent post (your most recent one). I agree completely.
I also agree with Drew that in a complete business sense, that profits should be disclosed. We have always disclosed our monthly income, our monthly profit & shown prospects our checks. Nothing to write home about but certainly a fair profit for the effort put it.
Both realistic as well as potential profit should be shown. If you are too new to show your new downline this, then point to a growing upline. When you tell the prospect the potential product-related profit in this business, you should also be fully prepared to SHOW them exactly what steps they need to take in order to make that potential profit.
As far as tools-related profit, we knew that the Platinums & above made money off of the system. However, as Anonymous stated, we too, believe that they should. After all, they are putting in extra time, extra effort, extra energy, their stories, their experiences, hosting regionals or second-look meetings, etc. They are earning that extra income. We have no problem with that. It is like a 'bonus' income that is associated with this business - much like stock options for the ambitious corporate worker. The harder you work & the smarter you work, the higher up you go...therefore, the more you make.
I do agree with the critics that if the potential system profit could be outlined for the new business builder, that would allay quite a bit of skepticism. I would love to see it as well!
This is what I do know guys: this business welcomes everyone. All races, genders, ethnicities, faiths (or non-faith!), ages, capacities, income levels, etc.
Not everyone who is involved, believes in God. They don't have to in order to build a relatively successful business. But I will tell you this: whether you believe in HIM or not, GOD has HIS hand all over this business! I am more convinced of this than ever before....especially after the Leadership Conference we just attended. Wow.
Yes, alot of inspirational stories, motivating speeches, edification, praise, gratitude, etc. But also alot of good, solid teaching. On retailing. On profit building. On prospecting & building your customer list. On how to approach & what to say & how to 'close the sale' in a retail situation. Excellent training. Excellent advice. Excellent mentorship.
Excellent business opportunity.
Anon
Well, as my wife and I always say when we explain why we left the business to our family, friends, business partners, and former downline:
"We're glad we got in, and glad we got out."
I'm glad I learned what I did, and I'm glad I cut my losses.
If you can't think for yourself, then you get what you deserve.
anon "As far as tools-related profit, we knew that the Platinums & above made money off of the system. However, as Anonymous stated, we too, believe that they should. After all, they are putting in extra time, extra effort, extra energy, their stories, their experiences, hosting regionals or second-look meetings, etc. They are earning that extra income. "
Did you ever have the oppurtunity to do that yourself? Lets say I'm a measley 4,000PV IBO distance leg from my upline platinum. I have to pay extra shipping to have my groups tools sent to me, I have set up tool pick-up, I have to manage all cash, checks over-draft fees, etc. Do I get to have some tool profit for my work?
Who says YOU can't be doing anything your platinum is doing? You can't book a hotel room? You can't reserve a meeting place?
And when your platinum does all this, are they doing it by themselves? They don't have greeters at the door? They don't have IBO's run the audio or video? No one else is putting in any extra effort for the team?
I worked my butt off for the team as an IBO doing all those things I mentioned and more. Did I ever get a cut of the tools profit for all that extra work I did? Heck no.
Anon, Do you do extra work for the team, and are you getting compensated for it with tools money?
Fastshutter,
Nope. No "tools" money here! Not yet. I don't expect it until the Platinum level.
Not sure how your group works, Fastshutter. Was it WWDB? What I've personally seen & witnessed is: Platinums & Ruby's at the door. Emeralds 'hosting' the Diamonds. Diamonds & above are speaking.
Diamonds & above, Emeralds, Sapphires (which are rarely heard from 'cuz they probably blow by this level), Ruby's also cut cd's & dvd's.
Some of the Diamonds & perhaps some other levels, have written books.
I haven't witnessed any IBO's below Platinum being asked to "work" at a meeting. Doesn't mean it doesn't happen, I just haven't witnessed it.
Hope that answers your question.
Anon
Anon, apparently you are not running your business the way some of us here experienced.
Putting that aside - an honest and candid question.
How do you know you will get money at platinum and how much will you get? I have read that platinums get a "break" which amounts to 25 cents a tape or something. Not enough to offset the expectations of shipping and inventory of said tools. When do you get the lion's share of the profit - which makes it worth your trouble?
By quixtar's own admission, there were 160 qualified diamondships at the 2006 diamond club. A far cry from what some IBOs have told us here.
Joecool said: "How do you know you will get money at platinum and how much will you get? I have read that platinums get a "break" which amounts to 25 cents a tape or something. Not enough to offset the expectations of shipping and inventory of said tools. When do you get the lion's share of the profit - which makes it worth your trouble?"
Anon: "Regarding System Profits, I guess I am going by what I was told. To be honest, I have not seen it in writing.
I don't know about "off-setting the cost of shipping" - I know the direction of tools is online and/or MP3/downloads.
I guess Joe, that I feel this business has been worth it for me all along."
Anon wrote: "Regarding System Profits, I guess I am going by what I was told. To be honest, I have not seen it in writing.
Joe says: Anon, seriously, no offense directed at you, but your statement here describes the majority of problems with the "system". Say you don't get along with an upline diamond - and you reach a level where you should get tools money - but you don't. How do you contractually get the money? That's what happened in Merchants of Deception.
Yes Joe, that's something to think about. Thank you.
Anon
Hello Critics and members of Quixtar!
Very interesting posts, yeah. It seems Anon is all on his own against a horde of angry scholars.
Allow me to digress. I am myself a Quixtar IBO. I work with an organization called LTD, which stands for Leadership Development Team, also, interestingly enough, "Learnable, Teachable, Duplicatable." To answer some of your questions, here goes. Keep in mind that I mean to offend no one, and hope I do not get pounced on;, but, go ahead :P
Regarding tools payout:
Generally an Emerald, Ruby, Diamnond etc who cuts a CD will get paid about $5 for it. It's roughly the same profit as a singer or songwriter will get for CD's that they write. I personally took issue with this as I felt that money should have gone back to the IBO's. I understand where people are coming from when this frustrates them. Nevertheless, their stories and their advice make things very simple for us as we get involved. They are not just motivational tapes, they are instructional. In LTD our CD's are categorized based on what you need to learn, or where you need to grow. You don't have to listen to who you don't want too, and you can find a favorite speaker and listen to how he runs his business or so on.
Income, Bonuses, How do we make money?!
To be honest, the gentelman who was saying how it's impossible to make money is quite foolish. As more points go through your business, you ascend a "bonus ladder". You start at a 3% bonus, for doing your 100 points. By the time that you reach the 7500 point level you are receiving a 25% bonus. At 2100 points it's 9%, it goes up as time goes on. Also, when you hold 7500 points for a year you are called "Q12" and you receieve a 16,000 bonus and a free trip. Now, that's why 7500 points at 3% doesn't yield the income. People need to do their research more throughoughly before they begin making assumptions.
Point 3, Franchising, "Signs on the door"...
At our open meetings we are very clear about how things work. We try to be more clear then neccessary because we know of Open meetings and Uplines who are jerks and take advantage. As far as I know there are 16 different major Quixtar organizations. I've head of "TEAM, BWW", and then our LTD. Different organizations are like sports teams. Diferent coaches run their teams different ways. Open meeetings all belong to a respective organization, and they are all run individually. Personally, however, I can speak for LTD when I say that our open meetings follow a duplicatable SYSTEM known as the QI system. Any member who has EVER been involved with LTD since we implented this system in the past year can vouge for me. We tell people, in a 15 minute interview, what we are about, what we do, and how we do it. The open meeting then serves as a meeting ground to meet the team and see how income works. The follow up, SHOULD THE visitor want to see it, then describes how they would be involved. The truth is, you see, that should you follow the structure, the teachings, and the methods taught in the QI system, you WILL build a solid team. Then again our organization is far more successful then just about any other, but that's just how it works. Different teams are better than others. L
Larry Winters, the leader of our organization, just tells it how it is.
There is no gimmicks or tricks with quixtar. Think about it. Every corporation and job in America is a pyramid. Don't bosses and CEO's get paid more than their bitches working in cubicles? Don't big owners sit on their asses while their managers do all the work? But yet, I'm sure plenty of the critics still work in that environment, and that's fine! It is TRUE that 90% of America works as employees, that's FINE. LTD does NOT criticize. If people do not want to get inolved, we teach STRICTLY to say "Ok, I found out what I wanted too, was a pleasure to meet you." We want try every day to change around the image people have about Quixtar. So what if someone breaks this code? Well it's simple. If we, in our organization know of fraud or corruption, their downlines can be transfered, and it's happend before mind you that I know about. In our organization of ten's of thousands, there are obviously a few bad eggs. But I can personally vouge for my personal Morris Emerald Team of LTD that we do it right, we tell it how it is, and we live in the land of Will.
Devon says: There is no gimmicks or tricks with quixtar. Think about it. Every corporation and job in America is a pyramid. Don't bosses and CEO's get paid more than their bitches working in cubicles? Don't big owners sit on their asses while their managers do all the work?
Joe: But CEOs and bosses don't make money almost exclusively by selling products to their employees do they?
Hi,
My husband and I have been Q12 Platinums 2 out of the last 3 years in WWDB. We just passed our 5th year anniversary and are evaluating our future in the Quixtar business. I can tell you we made almost identically what is shown in the WSA4400. It surprises me when I see platinums that don't make those numbers, it probably means most volume is down one leg. We have decent width, we are in and out of double eagle. We have hit the ruby level once and so are now "big rubies" in the business. That makes us feel kind of weird. Here's exactly what we make off the tool business: $7/month for every premiere membership and I think $1/month for every Communikate user. Last year we averaged about 40-45 premiere memberships, about $280 a month, less than $4000/year. After buying extra prospecting CDs to give out to prospects for our group, we did not show a profit from the tool business. We make no money from selling CDs. We have not been very good at promoting the system it seems and so our toolflow is below average probably for most platinums from what we hear our Diamond say. On wwdb.com it does show the profit from from the BSM business. The reason we are evaluating is because our 5 years is up... We have made money, no doubt, we've won trips, we've incurred debt but not from the tool system - it was from stocking products in the old call in and pick up days. Thank God for ditto delivery and online ordering - no more stocking and waiting for people to pay for products! We haven't had growth much in the last 4 months and we are struggling to requalify as Platinums, a little discouraging considering the time we've put into the business. The good thing is we make a few thousand dollars every money and we haven't done many meetings for months. We really want to help people, but feel there is a lot of manipulation and aren't sure that we "have what it takes" to go on to Diamond. Of course, we won't tell our Diamond of our doubts, because he won't listen and will just find someone downline with to work with in our business. He's a smart guy and very upfront about it, it just feels wrong sometimes. Thanks for letting me vent, I'd appreciate any comments positive or negative, just don't call me a loser, I've worked this biz darn hard for 5 years and am at a crossroads...
rara & kicked:
hey mo-rons.... i got news for you! they never said "quixtar" because quixtar isnt the business. its our supplier. the business is your own. you can make up your own name for the business - whatever you would like. But if you listend to what they taught you, LTD is the supporter - Quixtars the supplier.
Oh and for you former IBO's .... ur all saps. haha. Have fun working a J-O-B for the rest of your life. PEACE!
i was involved in quixtar a few yrs ago and recently renewed my membership for one reason..it really works.I did not stay involved b/c i moved a hour away from my sponser and it made it very hard to stay involved.I know i wasnt getting rich but it was b/c i didnt have enough people in my team.i was getting a check every month,so can someone tell me how thats a scam? As in any "job" you have you get what you put into it.If i wouldve worked harder then i wouldve got a check that represented my hard work. I ask you this....in most jobs,do you get paid more if you work harder? I will answer that for you...NO. Most jobs today pay you by the hour and the harder you work you still make the same by the hour.If you lost your job today ,how many checks will you get after that? In this job the income never stops as long as you keep a solid team.If im wrong let me know with some reasoning not just a bunch of trash talk.
I'm an active registered IBO and blessed enough to be on a great team. When these guys showed me the plan I was in from the get go...but I never knew how good this business really was until I got deeper into it and to be honest it only gets better the further into it I dig. For people that really want to know what makes this business work is realizing it's a numbers game. You can't let other ignorant people's opinions get in your way. Most people don't want to see you succeed just because they aren't going to succeed in anything they do. You gotta work this thing like a job...actually take it more seriously than your job because it will give you alot more than your job ever will...problem is most people that "try" it and fail is because they don't take it serious...this business is just like anything you do in life...if you're serious about something and you practice it and perfect it then you get good results...but if you half-ass it then you're gonna get half-ass results...think about it!
hell yea im an ibo said:
hey mo-rons.... i got news for you! they never said "quixtar" because quixtar isnt the business. its our supplier. the business is your own. you can make up your own name for the business - whatever you would like. But if you listend to what they taught you, LTD is the supporter - Quixtars the supplier.
Oh and for you former IBO's .... ur all saps. haha. Have fun working a J-O-B for the rest of your life. PEACE!
Joe says: It's IBOs like you that give quixtar a bad reputation. Quixtar may be your "supplier", but the relationship is more than that.
What company's name appears on your bonus checks?
Hello everyone!! My name is Jonathan and I plan to get into the quixtar business. I know that I can call it what I want, by that I mean name it something else because quixtar is the supplier. I am looking for 2 people.
1. one person to tell me why not to get into the business (must have a very good reason why, a damn good reason, don't tell me it's a scam, show me it's a scam)
2. one person to tell me why i should get into the business (must have very good reason why, a damn good reason, don't tell me cause I can make extra money, i know that already. show me, give me proof why I should do it)
So many things have hindered me into not getting started. It wasn't anything anyone said or did with the business. These things are like lack of money, timing is wrong, etc. FATE-is what i am beginning to believe is what is stopping me.
So please, 2 people answer those questions. 1- for why i shouldn't!
1- for why i should!
You can reach me at Jonathancstokes@yahoo.com
Jonothan and everyone else who is lingering on the decision to join a quixtar team...I'll give you both reasons
...reasons you should:
1) If you are having trouble with coming up with a measly $200.00 to get started-up then you might need to re-evaluate what you are doing for income right now and give something different a shot!
2) There is a 100% money back garauntee provided up to 12months after registration. If you are not happy with the way your bussiness is going Quixtar will buy you back out of busines up to 12months after the registration date.
3) The only thing you have to risk is a little bit of time and sweat.
4) Your upline doesn't make any money "on you" if you aren't successful. Listen to whatever they say and do it and you will succeed because they want to succeed as well and will do anything they can to help you get there so they can get there as well.
6) I'm a personal testimoney, I love my Quixtar business and it's working for me because I work hard and listen to my growing upline!
5) Registering with Quixtar really is a no-brainer.
...Reasons not to Register:
1) You are Lazy
2) You don't have a backbone
3) You're a quitter
4) You can't hold your ground or make your own decisions
5) You are influenced easily by people's opinions
6) You wet your pants easily
Honestly guys...you have nothing to lose...don't just "try" it...get it done!!! and take no prisoners...it's a war and anything that is this good in life is worth a fight! I recommend talking to your possible sponsor about attending a major function to help you decide if it is something you would want to pursue. Pay the money to go to the function and it will help you make an intelligent decision.
P.s. you might not want to take advice from people who didn't make it... isn't that pretty obvious?
CLEAR VIEW: BOTH CAN BE RIGHT
Its a matter of finding the right, honest upline (as honest as any business owner can be) and using your own due diligence.---remember that, this is with ANY business cannot run profitably with TOTAL honesty. I hope everyone understands the depth and reality of that statement. Don't expect your upline IBOs to be super humans, something you yourself are not.
I can understand what, how, and why anyone would say or behave who has had a bad experience with Amway/Quixtar. Actually, I was in that category as well. Most of the times you'll meet people who were optomistic and went into this business head over heels, got burned and then couldn't stop themselves from saving the world from Quixtar. But my story goes the opposite way.
It's true that some uplines just preasure, or more accurately cajole people into getting in the business and don't expalin the challenges or hard work that is involved. That's what happened to us when we first joined Amway amny years ago. I was a child but I remember vivdly that our family friends brought their downline to our home and because they knew my parents well got them to join. They made it look so easy to sponsor people and that life would just be set by joining and there was no or little work involved except to receieve checks. Like as if, if you even mention this oppurtunity to anyone, people would be mroe than obliged to join and thank you for saving their life from the coporate vultures. haha.
I am sure you can guess what happened to our business and the billions we were going to make. We tried but the magic we were promised didn't happen--only smoke. After a couple of tries my parnets just didn't do anything with it. We used most of products and still have some after 12 years. Well, that was then.
About four and a half months ago we met a couple. The lady said she was a skin specialist (since she was interested in selling products). To cut the story short, she came home, looked thorugh the SAM and recomended skincare products. I wasn't interested in purchasing anything she recommended. I thought then it was all too expensive, even though I had not problem buying Lancome, EsteLauder, Lancaster and have the products don't work as well as Artistry does. Moving on...we must have spent two hours b/c she did the whole cleasing face and SAM for four people in my family and explained the products, ingredients and company thoroughly. While she was sifting for a sample to leave with me, I saw a Nutrilite bottle: concentrated fruits and vegetables, to be exact. And low-and-behold it was the product that I insisted in finding more info on. (She still insisted in telling me more about skin care but soon got the point). My mom is a diabetic and wondered if her alopathy(which always has side affects) could be replaced with vitamins(which are natcural). We came up with a list of vitamins that could be bought for the whole family. One of them were oblivously DoubleX. Since we were buying $200 worth, she was smart and logical enough to not say that to sign up it costs $200. Then, I calculated that with the 6 months return policy on products, 3 months return policy on membership itself, if the vitamins yielded any benefits we could return everyhting, even the $75 CDN for the membership fees. We had ntohign to loose.
We got started! I adamantly told them righ then, we were in Amway and we are not doing this to build a business. They knew better to prove us wrong. All their training helped them. THE PRODUCTS ARE AMAZING---most importnatly THE PRODUCTS WORK!!!
After a few weeks of being signed up, as I was thinking about our prior experience with the sister company, I realized that my parnets/we had not even tried. we got no from a few people and said to oursleves that it was too tough and left it. (my dad read an article that said that the founder of KFC was turned down 400+ times before he got a yes). That's when I figured (like most people would) that 'hey ill tell a few people about this and if they want to jion then they can if not, then not. who cares'.
Its not that you won't have to use your own common sense and figuring out but keep an attitude to succeed. If you find someone who is trying to sponsor you by telling you that 'wouldn't it be nice to not have to work and get paid' RUN...because that person will never be a good upline to you. Be a little computer savvy, or find someoen who is (you kids or siblings) and sign up through the Quixtar.com yourself, know exactly what you are paying for and how often. I did not buy the starter kit products because my sponsor told me that it is availalbe so peopel can try a variety of products without having to buy and try each of them seperately and since I was already buying $200 worht of products, I didn;t have to buy the kit. I had initially paid $95--75 to sign up and $20 or so for the magazine subscription. I asked her what I was paying for exactly and she told me. Later I called her told that since we were still knew I wanted to unsubscribe from the magazine..she did and told me that I can read hers until I start on my own. They give us books and cds and dvds to use but now I feel I want my own. I always know what and how much I am paying and never get preasured into doing what I don't want to go to or pay for. They encourage me still which I like.
Johnathan - just read the forum. There are plenty of reasons you can look at that may encourage or discourage you from joining quixtar.
I would advise you to research it and come up with a decision as to whether you want to participate or not. If you do, I suggest you come up with a "gameplan" to succeeed and a drop dead date when you plan to get it done.
When I say gameplan, I do not necessarily mean getting involved with a teaching "system".
I guess this just depends on who your uplne is. Mine are great, never presseured me, promised nothing like you will be a Diamond in 2-5 years or making X amount of dollars. They showed me their stubs from day 1 to current. Basically it was brought to me as, you can use this for yourself and get a small check each month... basically a refund OR you can tell your friends about it as well and they too can et a refund. The more that you sign up the more you can make... sounds ery much like every other sign up program there is... Arbone, Mary Kay, etc. Use the products you want, when someone asks tell them. I get about $250.00 back each month.. and a few friends have seen this and inquired. he only thing in this world that makes you rich is hard work, spending less and saving more... I use the extra cash to make an extra payment each month on my car... nothing is for everyone!
Hi All,
I was approached about Quixtar last night. There was no mention of the name Quixtar at all. We found it through digging today.
After hearing and hour of why we should do this, we got a short and quick description of "the business". It was a whirlwind, and we didn't get a whole lot of answers, so I just have 1 major question lingering...
How is this different from a Pyramid Scheme?
Thanks,
Curious
Curious, it is a pyramid scheme. It is legal, but most money will be made from the people you sign uo.
Curious,
In a pyramid scheme, your upline ALWAYS makes more than you can. With the Quixtar system, you still have to put people in to increase your purchase volume, but you can grow your own business to be bigger than those above you.
It IS NOT a pyramid scheme...What is your definition of a Pyramid? Is it one of those things that the guy at the top makes all the money and the chances of taking his place are 0%??
Guess what! You are probably already in one!!!
What are the chances of you taking your bosses place at work? Does your boss make more money than his boss?
In this business, you can make more money than the person who brought you in and anybody "above you".
Do you really care if someone teaches you how to make alot of money and if they get a small cut? Quit being selfish.
Do you realize that the reason your boss or employer pays you is because they are making money on the work that you do for them (making money on you)?
They can also replace(FIRE) you at any time they desire. In this business you have no boss just intelligent mentors who would love to guide you to the right path.
Don't be stupid, this is a real business...this is not a Pyramid...chances are you're already in one!
Anonymour diamond in the ruff said:
"It is NOT a pyramid scheme...What is your definition of a Pyramid? Is it one of those things that the guy at the top makes all the money and the chances of taking his place are 0%??"
Joe says: A pyramid is where someone (diamond) makes money from those below them on the pyramid. A CEO of walmart makes money from customers, not by taking $20 from the paycheck of each walmart employee.
Joe said: A pyramid is where someone (diamond) makes money from those below them on the pyramid. A CEO of walmart makes money from customers, not by taking $20 from the paycheck of each walmart employee.
I say: Yea a diamond makes money off his organization...grow up it's a business that's what a business is. Yes the CEO of walmart makes money on his employees. Ofcourse, there is no deduction printed in the paycheck;However, the work that the employees do is worth much more than they are getting paid. You never see the CEO of Walmart at the register ringing up customers or bagging groceries. And by the way the clerk doesn't make any proffit on the items that are scanned through their register. So, yes the CEO is making money on you as an employee.
The way corporate businesses work(and this goes for all of them):
THE EMPLOYEE DOES ALL THE HARD WORK AND CREATES THE PROFFIT FOR THE COMPANY AND THE COMPANY TAKES THE BIG PERCENT AND GIVES A MINOR FRACTION TO THE EMPLOYEE AS PAY.
The way the Quixtar business model works:
When you sponsor a new person in business, you teach them how to create volume through their business and they make the big cuts and as their sponsor for helping them and teaching them how to get paid...you get a small percent of their business out of a seperate pool of proffits from the Quixtar corporation.
Honestly...what sounds like a better deal?
Besides Pyramids are illegal...do you really think that companies like WALT Disney, Circuit City, IBM, Bass Pro Shops, Nascar and etc. would do Join ventures with a ILLEGAL PYRAMID. I'm pretty sure all these HUGE fortune 500 companies have some great lawyers that go through with a fine-tooth comb and investigate anything they are going to partner up with. I think the companies I named above have alot more to lose than to do something that stupid.
Just GO DIAMOND AND DON'T WORRY ABOUT IT!!!
Like everything else on this planet, there are good vs. bad. One thing you can count on is that people will always have something to say about everything.
After reading many sites, including this one -- I've decided to become an IBO. My sponsor is a friend and coworker, so maybe that made a difference for me. Anyways, she was honest and answered my questions. When I wanted to know what the retail prices vs IBO prices were for products, she showed it to me. When I asked her if she uses any of the products herself, she pulled a bunch of stuff out so I could see for myself. She was even willing to show me her invoices, financial papers and such so I could see what she's bought, for how much, what kind of points she's racking up, etc.
Our meeting was rather unconventional actually. We didn't sit and talk for an hour about diamond income and such... In fact, she gave me brochures, CDs, and books so that I could choose what to look at and decide from there - with an almost insider's point of view, instead of feeling like I was being left in the dark... I had some of this stuff for about 2 weeks, and not once did she push or rush me. My hubby did the math and explained that it seems to be more profitable to have customers instead of IBOs in your downline, and she was able to explain the main reason for having IBOs and such.
In fact, she even told me that in order to register, the only mandatory cost (recurring cost if I choose to stick around) was $48. I didn't have to buy product packs or subscribe to publications. I don't have to attend meetings or buy those Business Materials/Tools.
I like this group, and I can sign up as an IBO now (I have my sponsor's IBO#) - even though I haven't even been to one of the larger meetings/trainings yet. They said it was my choice to go, and right now I don't plan on going just yet...
But I think what really convinced me to do this is the upfront answers and the fact that both good and bad were presented to me. My sponsor even reminded me that I had a choice. If I wanted in, she would do what she can to help me succeed, which in turn helps her succeed as well. If I say no, that'll be the end of it - no hard feelings, no gain - but no loss either.
Our platinum upline was professional yet very laid-back. They knew we haven't had the conventional "meet" 2 or 3 times before deciding, and instead they started with, "What kinds of questions do you have? What concerns you about this business?" and that sort of thing. We asked about their income, if they had other sources of income, etc., and they even invited us into their home to see where & how they live, etc. They were very honest and upfront, and made sure we understood that this was not a "get rich quick" scheme... That there IS potential to do good in this business, but that there is also the potential to do bad.
And with that, I have decided to give it a shot, with $48 to start.
Hey,
I saw one comment that I would like to respond to. My father-in-law is an Emerald in the Quixtar business and has made a six figure income for the past thirteen years. I dated his daughter for three years before I got into the business.
I spoke to his fifth Platinum downline that has only been with him for one year while I was deciding whether to do this. I asked him if he REALLY made $3000 a month at the Platinum level. He told me very frankly that he had never gotten a check for less than $2700 at that level, and he was just in qualification at the time.
Tell me, does that not more than cover your "tool" expenses? And if one person can do it, why not others?
Matt
I was very surprised to find out (not from my upline) that Quixtar was the former Amway. Amway was never mentioned. In fact, in my time in BWW, Quixtar was not often mentioned. It was usually "the business". When I heard my first WWDB tape, I noticed that they mentioned the name Quixtar more often than in BWW and pointed that out to my sponsor.
Of course, the biggest shock I had was the day I found out that the big pins profited from the tools, and not only that, but a huge portion of their lifestyle was made possible by tool money. After that, I knew there was NO WAY I was going to continue to give them my money. So much for "we don't make any money unless you make money". What an egregious lie.
Posted by: rara | March 20, 2007 2:56 AM