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February 19, 2007
Diamond in 2-5 years?
By Truth in A/QMOs
The 6-4-2 Quixtar business plan that was shown by my group and many other groups in Quixtar shows the pin level of Diamond as a 2-5 year plan. However with Quixtar starting in 1999 there was only 1 Diamond that I have heard of who actually did it in 2-5 years and that is the Dussaults.
Excuses
Many IBOs defend the 2-5 year plan by saying that the 2-5 year clock doesn’t start until one become serious about their business or, that the 2-5 year plan is simply a way to show the plan and nothing more. Some have even gone so far to imply that the 2-5 year plan is legit since one IBO couple made it.
Prospect’s shoes
So let’s put ourselves in the shoes of a prospect seeing this plan for the first time. You are shown this plan that says in 2-5 years you can attain Diamond level in the business. What are your thoughts? Common sense says the prospect is thinking about being Diamond in 2-5 years. Now what if you were told that in Quixtar’s history only one couple was able to go Diamond in 2-5 years? How do you feel about that 2-5 year plan now?
Comments
The team I'm apart of shows the plan that way, but while showing the 6-4-2 part they mention that "It could take longer and it could be shorter but it all depends on how hard you work."
"Their answer: ANYONE WHO WANTS TO!"
YES! YOU GOT IT BUDDY! DID YOU OR DIDN'T YOU?
Another IBO,
So you are saying only one couple worked hard enough to do it in the time frame shown? Not exactly a ringing endorsement for the business.
The 2-5 year "plan"/"myth" has it's roots in Amway. Many, Many many Amway Diamonds achieved the 2-5 year plan in the 70s and early 80s.
Those legendary stories are what fuel the now-Quixtar 2-5 year plan.
I still have an Amagram that lists the years it took for a batch of Crown Ambassadors to achieve each level. A German couple went CA in two years.
A partnership between two couples achieved Diamond in 12 months with an intensive retail program.
This is why the 2-5 year plan is still taught today.
OK, first off the 2-5year plan IS NOT a time period for a Diamondship. 2-5 years is the average of what it would take a dedicated IBO to create an Emeraldship which nets anywhere from 150k and up. Some do it faster and some takes 20 years. You are the variable, not the business plan. Not many people can create a Diamondship in 2-5 years but I do know of another couple other than whom you have mentioned to have done it known as Greg & Jackie Francis. It can be done, it just takes alot of extra work...but hey it's well worth it.
Greg and Jaquie Francis will be 5 year Diamonds on the LTD-Winters team. In fact, they've been qualifying since the month after our FED, and have a very strong chance to qualify as EDCs right off the bat. Pretty amazing accomplishment.
They broke down how it happened. Francis, this year, just before even while beginning qualification, showed plans 361 days of the year. It's been a consistent work ethic. Goes to show what kind of work ethic is required for such success--but that it pays off. Most people aren't willing to work that hard. It's certainly a trade-off, but up to the individual.
As for 2-5 years, the plans I've seen usually present a Phase I/Phase II program. Phase I is 7500 points/Platinum (12-18 months, 10-15 hours/week. . .I've met multiple people who have achieved this). Phase II is 6 figures, usually described as Emerald (3 people at 7500), so Diamond would be the latter end of 5 years. Doug Weir, Joe Markiewicz, Greg Francis, and others have achieved this. While it is true they are the fastest, I do believe it is because they worked the hardest. Since this is attainable with their work ethic, as long as what they put in is made clear, why should standards be lowered? The most ambitious person to ever attend a seminar for the first time needs to know how high the bar is set, and they will try to emulate or pass it. For others (like me, I will admit), they can set their own pace.
Joe Markiewicz at our last function made a point of telling what his work ethic was, sharing his first year's calendar. He had appointments 363 days of the year, I believe. Not everyone showed up, but he was busy! He shared the leaders, emeralds and above on his team, all had calendars filled at least 75% of their free time to building their organization. 50%? just maintaining. Anything less that 30%, you're slipping. I appreciate he came out and set the bar, making it clear what level of commitment is necessary for success.
Good luck to all, in whatever your endeavors may be.
I wonder if Joe Markiewicz shows how much effort it is when he's showing the plan?
Just curious...
First of all I wouldn't care if it took 10 years to make diamond that just means I'd have to retire at 31 instead for 26. Thats still a good deal to me. And, secondly, It only takes one to prove everybody wrong. Back in the day SO many scientists and educated man said a man could physically NOT run a mile in 4 min. or less and they would give seminars explaining how that is not physically possible, over and over again until what, OH someone ran the mile in less than 4 min .... oh how many of those seminars and lectures were given then....0, zilch, zip, none, nada. It only takes one to prove everyone wrong.
Drew:
"Many IBOs defend the 2-5 year plan by saying that the 2-5 year clock doesn’t start until one become serious about their business or, that the 2-5 year plan is simply a way to show the plan and nothing more. Some have even gone so far to imply that the 2-5 year plan is legit since one IBO couple made it."
and then, you say that
"However with Quixtar starting in 1999 there was only 1 Diamond that I have heard of who actually did it in 2-5 years and that is the Dussaults."
Ok, let's go over this slowly, shall we?
First, you state that the 2 to 5 year plan is basically a myth because it is not feasible. Second, you state that the plan is actually not a myth after all because you "heard" of a couple who took great advanatage of it to achieve the level of Diamond. There is an obvious contradiction to your dual view of the 2 to 5 year plan viability. So, which one is it?
Above all, I don't really care what you have heard; it's irrelevant what you hear from people. It's relevant what you hear only from qualified people. Are you qualified or opinion qualified?
A couple made it, another couple made it and so on. I have personally met Greg and Jaquie Francis when they came to a conference in Toronto, Canada a few months ago. Great people with a bright future. They made it to Emerald and now may already me qualified Diamonds. Emerald is attainabale and so is Diamond yet, each is optional as per the individual's choice.
Besides all this I fully agree with marc; sacrifice and vision are optional but so is success.
Sure, 2-5 years to diamond is possible, but I don't think it's the norm anymore. Like Dave said, it happened in the past, but since the inception of quixtar, it would appear that the path to diamond is a bit longer.
A few issues here. First, the average Quixtar emerald doesn't make $150k a year. In fact, their income is about half http://www.amquix.info/quixtar_income.html
Not that $72k/year is anything to sneeze at, but look at the ratio of IBO's who make it there. 1 in 3,125! That's a minute number. Do people really believe the other 3,124 are lazy or incapable? The numbers just don't add up to me.
The second issue is the 10-15 hours a week claim that many IBO's also make. Again, if we are to take marc's number of showing the plan 363 days out of the year, that is basically working every day of the year. If the plan takes 1 hour to show, add in travel and prep time of 1 hour, we are already talking 14 hours a week, just showing the plan. That leaves only 1 hour a week to make phone calls, council with upline and downline, go to meetings, etc.
I wish IBOs would be more genuine when they show the plan. They could say it is a 2-5 year plan if you are willing to work it as a full time job, 365 days a year. Or, it is as you make it, and if you work it part time, you will most likely only make part time income. Which is probably why 1/2 of all IBOs quit before their first anniversary, and 2/3 of all IBOs quit in any given year.
"Ok, let's go over this slowly, shall we?
First, you state that the 2 to 5 year plan is basically a myth because it is not feasible. Second, you state that the plan is actually not a myth after all because you "heard" of a couple who took great advanatage of it to achieve the level of Diamond. There is an obvious contradiction to your dual view of the 2 to 5 year plan viability. So, which one is it?"
Better go a little slower next time because it seems you can't keep up. I never stated anywhere that 2-5 years was a myth, and never even implied it. 2-5 years is the supposed time frame for Diamond and I stated that I have only heard of one couple who did it in five years with Quixtar. Next time read the article before posting a comment.
"Above all, I don't really care what you have heard; it's irrelevant what you hear from people. It's relevant what you hear only from qualified people. Are you qualified or opinion qualified?"
So a person has to subscribe to your way of thinking in order to have an opinion? Interesting how instead of actually addressing a point you try to just attack the person making the point. Yet another example of not being able to defend what you claim to believe in. If you truly believed one would think you would have a rational answer like Dave had.
"A couple made it, another couple made it and so on. I have personally met Greg and Jaquie Francis when they came to a conference in Toronto, Canada a few months ago. Great people with a bright future. They made it to Emerald and now may already me qualified Diamonds. Emerald is attainabale and so is Diamond yet, each is optional as per the individual's choice."
So now make it two couples since 1999. I am not saying you cannot do it, I am just saying how do you think a prospect would feel about this business if you told them only 2 couples in over 7 years have done what you showed them? Interestingly enough I doubt if that stat is shared with prospects.
"This is why the 2-5 year plan is still taught today."
Do you think that since Quixtar has not seen the same kind of success as Amway they should change it?
"OK, first off the 2-5year plan IS NOT a time period for a Diamondship. 2-5 years is the average of what it would take a dedicated IBO to create an Emeraldship which nets anywhere from 150k and up."
That is simply spinning the truth. The 6-4-2 plan clearly shows 6 Platinum legs earning an IBO a bonus and refers to that level as Diamond. You are simply trying to spin the income and ignore the level the plan shows.
"Not many people can create a Diamondship in 2-5 years but I do know of another couple other than whom you have mentioned to have done it known as Greg & Jackie Francis. It can be done, it just takes alot of extra work...but hey it's well worth it."
So now you have two couples in over 7 years. Still not a ringing endorsement and I still don't think that bit of information is given to prospects after the 2-5 year plan is shown.
"First of all I wouldn't care if it took 10 years to make diamond that just means I'd have to retire at 31 instead for 26. Thats still a good deal to me."
First of all you never answered my question in my first response to you.
"And, secondly, It only takes one to prove everybody wrong. Back in the day SO many scientists and educated man said a man could physically NOT run a mile in 4 min. or less and they would give seminars explaining how that is not physically possible, over and over again until what, OH someone ran the mile in less than 4 min .... oh how many of those seminars and lectures were given then....0, zilch, zip, none, nada. It only takes one to prove everyone wrong."
Second of all the tapespeak is getting awful thick in this comment. So since one or two couples did it you are comfortable with showing the plan as a 2-5 year plan even if 2-5 is not the norm?
I am not so sure a prospect would believe in this business, much less sign-up, if you told them only two couples have accomplished the plan as shown in over 7 years of this business.
Drew, just wanted to reply to your one sided argument. Yes the dessaults were the first technical Q* diamond in the us. What you failed to mention to everyone reading your ill mannored comments was that in the Q* biz is just when the company happened to go online, not when that biz model was created. The actual biz model you're talking about has been around much longer than that and has also produced much more than ONE 2-5 year diamond. There have also been many other diamonds broken in other countries since 1997 the exact same way we do it here in the USA! Also, not everyone chooses to make the push for diamond. A lot of people are very happy retiring at emerald and making about 150K averag per year and staying that way. Diamond is a choice made by the business owner and can be done if desired. And if you're going to whine about a time phrame you might want to have it out with colleges too since a so called "4 year degree" now takes 5 to 6 years with absolutely no guarantee for a job. I think you're just and angry person who didn't choose to build your biz and now wants to be bitter about it. Why don't you find something better to do. This biz has sucessfully been around for 30 years and has created more millionairs only second to microsoft. So why don't you go try to confuse someone else. Oh yeah, and you also might want to tell everyone that there are almost two-thousand people who reach platinum every year and that is a 50k a year income. not too shabby ey. later.
"Drew, just wanted to reply to your one sided argument."
By bringing a one-sided comment I see.
"The actual biz model you're talking about has been around much longer than that and has also produced much more than ONE 2-5 year diamond."
So why has Quixtar only produced two? What is the problem? One would think in over 7 years of business there would be more.
"There have also been many other diamonds broken in other countries since 1997 the exact same way we do it here in the USA!"
Again this statement then begs the question what is wrong with the IBOs in the USA and North America (which is Quixtar) that only two have done it?
"Also, not everyone chooses to make the push for diamond. A lot of people are very happy retiring at emerald and making about 150K averag per year and staying that way. Diamond is a choice made by the business owner and can be done if desired."
So by this statement then are you telling me that only two couples have made the choice to push for Diamond and everyone else was just happier with less?
"And if you're going to whine about a time phrame you might want to have it out with colleges too since a so called "4 year degree" now takes 5 to 6 years with absolutely no guarantee for a job."
and of course out comes the tapespeak. I know several folks who are actually getting their four year degree faster then four years doing accelerated programs. So that pretty much debunks your new theory.
"I think you're just and angry person who didn't choose to build your biz and now wants to be bitter about it. Why don't you find something better to do."
Well like I always say I am more then willing to discuss my Quixtar time with anyone, but for some reason no IBO has the spine to step up when called on it. Are you game?
I have found something better to do. I have re-focused my energy back into my career and my side business which has more then doubled my household income in two years, and continues to grow.
Not to mention of course all the charity work that I have become involved in. Much better use of my time instead of stalking people in the local mall and bookstore.
"This biz has sucessfully been around for 30 years and has created more millionairs only second to microsoft."
Perhaps you should read my article on the IBO Echo Chamber. Do you have documentation to prove this point?
"Oh yeah, and you also might want to tell everyone that there are almost two-thousand people who reach platinum every year and that is a 50k a year income. not too shabby ey. later"
Again do you have your proof that that 2000 people make Platinum every single year in Quixtar and that they all make at least $50K?
According to a post done by Qblog sometime back new Platinums has never gotten close to 2,000 much less being done every year.
You can read the post here:
http://www.webraw.com/quixtar/archives/2006/04/997_new_quixtar_platinums.php
justus, the emerald average income is nowhere near $150,000. It is closer to half that. And the number of IBOs who ever reach the level is 1 in 3125. If there are 350,000 active IBOs, that means in North America, there is a grand total of 112 emeralds! Even if you double the numbers, 225 emeralds isn't that many.
And why are there so few emeralds and diamonds? Could it be the overwhelming majority of North Americans are lazy? Could be, but I find that hard to believe. There has to be, and there are, other explanations.
Quixtar has about 340,000 "active" IBOs. About half of them quit each year. So in 7 years (quixtar's inception) about 1.19 million IBOs have come and gone and two (2) have achieved diamond (quixtar only).
I think you have a better chance at winning the lottery.
Hi all!
How ya been? Hey, just a coupla things:
Dmm: I wish IBOs would be more
genuine when they show the plan.
Anon: I couldn't agree more!!! There is NOTHING to hide! Lay your cards out on the table
Dmm: They could say it is a 2-5 year plan if you are willing to work it as a full time job, 365 days a year. Or, it is as you make it, and if you work it part time, you will most likely only make part time income. Which is probably why 1/2 of all IBOs quit before their first anniversary, and 2/3 of all IBOs quit in any given year.
Anon: Here's what my hubby & I usually tell new Business Building Prospects (at this point, they have expressed an interest in building the biz vs. just being a prosumer or customer). We tell them there are essentially, three levels of business builders: 1. CORE (1-2 plans per week) 2. Hard CORE (3-5 plans per week) 3. KOR-EAN (10-20 plans per week).
Now, this last one is obviously a play on words. If any of you critics have kept up with the business in the past 5 years, you'll know that Korea has broken hundreds of Diamonds....per year! Their take on this business is...don't monkey around! Like the Nike motto...JUST DO IT...and get it done!
We do tell people (I know, you don't think we're the "norm" as IBO's) that with part time input, you'll receive part time output. The bottom line is, this biz opp will give you what YOU want. First of all, what DOES the prospect want? Just an extra $500 a month? $1500 a month? To be wealthy? To get the kids out of daycare? To pay for college for the kids? To retire? To be financially independent? If you put in the consistent work, over time, you WILL have results.
Dmm: And why are there so few emeralds and diamonds?
Anon: FEW? I don't think several hundred per year is few! Have you read an Achievers magazine??? Look at it from year to year! I've watched other couples move up at a fairly fast pace.
Dmm: Could it be the overwhelming majority of North Americans are lazy? Could be, but I find that hard to believe. There has to be, and there are, other explanations.
Anon: A lot are lazy. I've been one of them. I'm just as tempted as every one else out there (except the rare 1%) to do just enough to get by. To just blend in & do what everyone else is doing. However, that won't get me any different results than what the masses are experiencing.
Other explanations for why more people don't build this business to Emerald or Diamond level:
1. Are not willing to put in the hours & work necessary
2. Are not willing to change
3. Don't believe it works
4. Don't believe they can do it
5. Don't believe they are worthy
6. Get sidetracked by life
7. Get overwhelmed by life
8. Expect too much too soon- get impatient
9. Don't have a big enough dream
10. Simply don't want this biz opp
11. Are perfectly happy doing what they are doing
12. Don't care what the future holds & the affect it may, or may not, have on their family
And the list goes on...................
I don't think the 2-5 year time frame is as much a problem with prospects as it is with downline. They are the ones who know how hard someone in their upline is working. They are the ones receiving the e-mails and Kates outlining an upline's schedule. They are the ones trying to get a meeting booked with their "on-fire" upline. At some point the 2-5 year clock ticks to zero, and then someone actually sits down and does the math. Then those loyal downline who have been listening to you tell them it's a 2-5 year process start thinking. "Wow, look how hard they are working, and they didn't make it." From the upline's point of view it's even harder to sit down with someone and tell them they are on track to get it done when they are doing the same thing you did, and it didn't happen.
Wow... how interesting this topics comes up AGAIN.
But first, let review something: Drew's words: "basically a myth" then his statement: "I never stated anywhere that 2-5 years was a myth, and never even implied it."
Hum... so you can use a word "basically" and stand behind "never implying" a myth here? What a hypocrite... 100+ posts in the other thread discussing a statement when one leaves out a similar qualifying word... you are disgusting Drew, seriously.
That fact is:
Quixtar as an opportunity is EXACTLY THE SAME for those that FAIL, or quit, or whatever you want to call it, and those that SUCCEED. Same opportunity for those that do it in 2-5 years as those that do it in 5-10 yrs or more.
What is different? Personal work ethic, drive, sacrifice, etc. All personal attributes and choices. Don't blame the opportunity. It has been proven that diamond can be reached in 2-5 yrs in Amway, as well as Quixtar, in the US as well as Korea, Japan, Australia, etc.
Such excuses are ridiculous. As is comparing personal choices and hard work to the lottery.
(Side note: I recommend the new book by Trump and Kiyosaki. Passer-bys, pick this up and compare their thinking, words, and actions to that of Drew and other critics... it is startling, really.)
Hello,
I have been in the Quixtar business with my wife for 4 years. During that period we have risen to eagle position and are earning $300 - $400 monthly. My wife puts in 2 hours a day for 4 days a week. Add this to the once monthly seminars and gas money for trips of up to 100 kilometres a day we are no closer to achieving the Quixtar dream.
I have personally given up. My four lovely children miss the presence of their mother but she is busy chasing the dream. Will she make diamond in the 2 - 5 year plan. I have given her another year. In the meantime we suffer and wait....
"But first, let review something: Drew's words: "basically a myth" then his statement: "I never stated anywhere that 2-5 years was a myth, and never even implied it."
"Hum... so you can use a word "basically" and stand behind "never implying" a myth here? What a hypocrite... 100+ posts in the other thread discussing a statement when one leaves out a similar qualifying word... you are disgusting Drew, seriously."
Actually Brad I never used the word myth and apparently you didn't do your homework. I never even used "basically a myth" and I guess you little display proves that you don't really read what I write you just personally attack me for the sake of doing so. But since you are convinced please quote for us where in my article I used the words "basically a myth" since you attributed that quote to me. How do you like your crow? My guess is you will disappear again.
"What is different? Personal work ethic, drive, sacrifice, etc."
So are you saying then that in seven years there were only two couples with enough work ethic, drive, and sacrifice to do Diamond in 2-5 years?
"Side note: I recommend the new book by Trump and Kiyosaki. Passer-bys, pick this up and compare their thinking, words, and actions to that of Drew and other critics... it is startling, really."
I would recommend it also I have read it recently and a comment I found interesting was how network marketing was not suggested for the compensation.
Also Brad let's not just compare the actions since you have a biased view of what you think my actions are since you apparently don't read what I even write before passing your judgement, but let's compare results.
You have been in Quixtar about as long as I have been out. So tell us all about the mighty results you have attained in those two years and then I will give mine and then we can compare something that counts.
Anon: FEW? I don't think several hundred per year is few! Have you read an Achievers magazine??? Look at it from year to year! I've watched other couples move up at a fairly fast pace.
dmm: If you look at it from year to year and there is a large, new crop of emeralds popping up on a consistant basis, that means many other emeralds who no longer qualify!
The number of IBOs has remained steady between 300,000 and 350,000 in North America for the last 35 years. The ratio of emeralds to total IBOs has also remained rather constant. This means, at any given time, there are about 125 emeralds who qualify in North American. So, think about this. If in the next Achieve magazine, there are X number of new emeralds, that means, in order to keep the ratio, which AmQuix has, X number of emeralds either moved up to become diamond (very rare), or they have fallen back out of qualfication!
What I will say, anon, is I appreciate your honesty when showing the plan. But I will give you another explanation why most people fail, and you aren't that far off. Many people may join wanting only part-time income, but get swept away with the dream of being financially free. They eventually rationalize that if Quixtar can promise the goods, it would be silly to only want part-time money, when the big bucks are 2-5 years away.
Problem is, it takes a huge, more than full-time work committment to make diamond, and most people don't have the time or ability to work Quixtar 40+ hours a week, plus their regular job. And unless they are in a position to not work their regular job (already finacially well off), then most people eventually realize their regular jobs pays more regularlly, and they quit Quixtar.
It's the choice between a regular paycheck now for 40 hours a week, versus the promise of a large paycheck 2-5 years down the road that may never come to fruition. Given the 2 couples in 7 years who actually made diamond, the majority choose stability...which leads to the other problem. Once someone quits, are they apt to still purchase the same amount of Quixtar items they did when they were IBOs? The answer is no, which causes upline's businsses to fall back...and the cycle continues.
Brad wrote --- But first, let review something: Drew's words: "basically a myth" then his statement: "I never stated anywhere that 2-5 years was a myth, and never even implied it."
Hum... so you can use a word "basically" and stand behind "never implying" a myth here? What a hypocrite... 100+ posts in the other thread discussing a statement when one leaves out a similar qualifying word... you are disgusting Drew, seriously.
Bradley.... Bradley... whatsa matter with ya? All those 'personal development' books mess up your head completely? Maybe you need to read a book on "Reading Comprehension", huh?
And funnily enough, you are again suggesting that you were taken 'out of context' on the 'Jobs are charity' thread.... Yet you didn't care to defend yourself there...?? Maybe you should go back and read that thread again - more than a few people have explained clearly, how jobs can NEVER be called charity. No 'almost', no 'somewhat'.... Jobs are NOT charity. PERIOD.
Or perhaps, you'd like to explain yourself here?
And someone else has explained this to you before, also. No amount of wealth-'mentality', or business-'thinking' is going to make you wealthy, Bradley. You gotta actually 'do' the 'work', not just 'change' your 'thinking'. Haven't you read enough "change-your-thinking-books"? For crying out loud, stop reading those goofy "wealth-mentality" books by con-artists like Kiyosaki .
Just go do it. We are cheering for ya. Go 'Dimend', and come back and rub it in our face.
How many IBOs have come and gone into quixtar since 1999? Based on quixtar's estimate of 340K IBOs and 50% quit rate, that means about 1.2 million IBOs have come and gone. How many diamonds (quixtar only)? I believe the count was now at a whopping two (2)!!!
2-5 years? I think not.
Working at it 365 days a year sounds like another JOB. When in that time frame is quality time spent with family, friends, enjoying a hobby? See the difference with Microsoft and the AMO method of "success" is that Bill Gates has a better method of reaching the public to buy his products. He personally doesn't have to go to the store every night to prospect people for his business. I get so tired of the AMOs comparing the method of success at becoming Diamond to Microsoft. Plus Bill Gates had a product that has proven its success and it is useful to people in all fields. He doesn't talk about how only Republican, Christians who are not gay are the best people to use and promote his products.
We were taught to show that it was a 2-5 year plan to "financial freedom." We also were taught a 9-6-3 plan.
PW
The way I look at it, 2-5 year diamondship is certainly a myth. When you give a time range for a certain thing to happen, that thing should happen for the majority within that time range. For example, if you want to make a claim that "Men attain puberty between ages X and Y", then very very few, if not none should attain puberty outside of this age range.
Everybody knows that, especially the IBOs. That's why they bring in bogus claims like "not everyone wants to go diamond", "the whole human population is lazy", etc.
Drew, I apologize for misquoting you. I stop by here vary rarely and skim, at best, the posts.
My point remains that Quixtar the opportunity is available to all, those that "succeed" and "fail". It cannot be a VARIABLE if it is constant in all situations. Perhaps you can discuss something else as the variable/variables.
As you have read the new book, perhaps some discussion on that? I find it interesting and valuable to many, no matter your position in life, business, etc.
Some reasons Kiyosaki gives for "why people fail to be rich":
1) Laziness
2) Bad Habits
3) Lack of Education
4) Lack of Experience
5) Lack of Guidence
6) Bad Attitude
7) Bad influence from friends and family
8) Lack of Focus
9) Lack of determination
10)Lack of courage
Brad said: "Some reasons Kiyosaki gives for "why people fail to be rich":
1) Laziness
2) Bad Habits
3) Lack of Education
4) Lack of Experience
5) Lack of Guidence
6) Bad Attitude
7) Bad influence from friends and family
8) Lack of Focus
9) Lack of determination
10)Lack of courage"
Joe: Let me add a few:
Bad advice from upline/mentor
A poor financial vehicle
Ignoring the facts
"Drew, I apologize for misquoting you. I stop by here vary rarely and skim, at best, the posts."
Apology accepted and might I suggest spending your little time reading the article and not base your comments off of other's comments.
"My point remains that Quixtar the opportunity is available to all, those that "succeed" and "fail". It cannot be a VARIABLE if it is constant in all situations. Perhaps you can discuss something else as the variable/variables."
I am not saying the business is a variable in success or failure, remember my beef is with motivational organizations and dishonest upline, not Quixtar.
"Some reasons Kiyosaki gives for "why people fail to be rich":
1) Laziness
2) Bad Habits
3) Lack of Education
4) Lack of Experience
5) Lack of Guidence
6) Bad Attitude
7) Bad influence from friends and family
8) Lack of Focus
9) Lack of determination
10)Lack of courage"
Sure all of those are good reasons someone would not be rich or successful at just about anything, not just business. Even if none of those apply to a person I would still say Quixtar would not be the way to go.
Even Kiyosaki says in the book not to get involved with network marketing for the compensation, but for what you will learn. In some parts I agree with that. Trying to build a Quixtar business will give you some skills that you can put to use in actually making money with something more worth your time. I would stay away from the "system" for the most part however.
i've been reading some of your guy's postes about the diamond ship in 2-5 years and found it funny about how many people talk crap about it and the majority of you probably never really did what it takes to become diamond in 2-5 years. the 2-5 year plan works it's been proven just because its rare for someone to do it doesn't mean it don't work. the only people that will achieve the daimondship in 2-5 years are the two percenter and go-getters because they do what it takes they go the miles they listen to there upline they use there training supplies and they applie what they have learned and then they put there nose to the grindstone and get it done. i am an IBO and i'm proud of it. so if you have never done the business or didn't have what it takes to get it done or turn a profit, you shouldn't even think about blaming the model, oh no you should be blaming yourself because you were just too lazy and stubburn(otherwise known as a 98 percenter)to do take the advice of the wise and apply it.
"the only people that will achieve the daimondship in 2-5 years are the two percenter and go-getters"
So why has less then 2% ever achived Diamond in 2-5 years? Sean, this is where actually applying some critical thinking comes in handy. Not always good to just repeat what your upline says.
"i am an IBO and i'm proud of it. so if you have never done the business or didn't have what it takes to get it done or turn a profit, you shouldn't even think about blaming the model, oh no you should be blaming yourself because you were just too lazy and stubburn(otherwise known as a 98 percenter)to do take the advice of the wise and apply it."
Oh man, I never heard that before.
Again Sean let's apply a little critical thinking here. First you say the only ones that go Diamond in 2-5 years are those 2% who do what it takes and in this other comment here you say the lazy and stubborn are the other 98%.
By that logic Sean everyone who joined Quixtar in the first three years is lazy and stubborn and only two couples did what it took. Also, every other IBO (including you) is considered lazy and stubborn if they don't make Diamond in 2-5 years.
How long have you been in Quixtar Sean? You best get going otherwise you might find yourself a victim of your own logic.
First off, I know it isn't always good netiquette, but their, there, and they're, sean. Please learn the difference.
Secondly, if only 2% of the world is cut out to be a successful business owner, how come only 1 in about 2,300 ever make it to emerald (.04% for those keeping score), and less than 1 in 14,000 make it to diamond (.007%). Don't you think if the 2%er claim was correct, that at least .5% of all IBOs would be successful, reaching at least emerald? But the percentages are nowhere close!
The numbers just don't add up. At least to me. Sonewhere around 1.5 million people have quit Quixtar since it's inception. Were they all too lazy, uninspired, or whatever to not make it? What does that say about our future, or could the culprit lie elsewhere?
Sean "the 2-5 year plan works it's been proven just because its rare for someone to do it doesn't mean it don't work. the only people that will achieve the daimondship in 2-5 years are the two percenter "
Joe: And it's also proven that although rare, people win lotteries. Does it mean playing the lottery is a good financial vehicle for a lot of people?
BTW, I bet there are more lottery winners than diamonds.
Dude what is your obsession with this lottery thing? Why didn't you play the lottery more often, no million for you yet? Shut up!!!
For arguments sake let us say that the 2-5 year plan is not a myth because 5 people went diamond since quixtar launched.
I am going to change the numbers to be a little lenient to the ibos.
In any given year about 400,000 people are in quixtar, with a drop out rate of 55% year. Therefore in 6 years (if the 45% remains in the system),approximately 1,500,000 have passed through the system.
In my opinion to continue with these calculations would be an insult to the ibos.
Why does it seem as if the only "new" shining stars ussually are family to the diamonds and above from the amway era?
I own a small fishing business. If I were to get sick in any given year, when I recover I would use my capital to continue my work.
In your rise to quixtar superstardom, what kind of effect do you believe lifes natural set backs will have on your retirement plan.
Quixtar proponents call people idiots to there face when the try to diffuse the 2-5 year bomb. 2-5years means If I work the business according to how the system tells me how to do it you will be a diamond, pure and simple.
"2-5years means If I work the business according to how the system tells me how to do it you will be a diamond, pure and simple."
Well this is new. So now you are saying that the time frame doesn't even really exist? If that is what you are saying then why is it even put in there?
2-5 year Plan:
2 years hoping it will work
2 years trying to figure out why it is NOT working
1 year deciding to GET OUT
2+2+1=5
I've met with people from the business. A couple I know are four years in, and they are not doing anything close to emerald. About 25k/year, last year. Now they're trying to get me to join, but in reading this, I cannot see the benefit outweighing the chance I'm taking. They have not told me how much this is gonna cost me, but I have heard from people who have quit the business that it's 300/year membership fee (which might be different depending on who you enter the system through), and a monthly expenditure as well. Monthly, you have to buy enough to generate volume. Personally, I can never see this replacing my income, and will never give this a try. The numbers you've quoted speak for themselves. Happening upon this thread has saved me valuable time and money. Thank you.
I have been involved and around Amway/Quixtar for the past 10 years. Any company, including whom ever you currently work for, you will only achieve certain levels of success through your own hard work and merit. I knew when I signed up I would only reap what I sow. Anyone who does not comprehend this concept, I assume is not succeeding in life in general. I was only promised the opportunity to succeed but never that it was guaranteed or would be handed to me. As far as the tapes and books, I have never been made to feel that I have to purchase any only that they can be useful tools. As in all business entities, I have never seen one that did not have manuals, motivational and principles of success literature. If you have not been exposed to any, this may be the reason for your lack of success. The books are those that are published with well known authors that we read prior to joining Quixtar. As far as the time frame, logic tells one that if you sign up and sit on your butt for 5 years and put in absolutely no effort, why would the clock begin. In most jobs if you put forth the same effort, you would no longer have a job!
Signed I Place Blame At The Right Individual, Myself
You might want to look at World Wide Dream Builders which is a group of highly successful business associates which utilizes Quixtar. There has been many individuals achieve the Diamond level within 2-5 years. Some have done it in less than 2 years. There is far more than one couple who has achieved this distinct honor.
Yes, let's look at Worldwide Dream Builders. How many diamonds have they produced recently? I think they have a net loss over the last ten years.
"Any company, including whom ever you currently work for, you will only achieve certain levels of success through your own hard work and merit."
So are you saying only 2 couples in seven years have done enough hard work and merit to succeed in 2-5 years? Many of you supporters are singing this same tune, yet none of you have taken the time to come back and actually answer this question. I find that interesting.
"You might want to look at World Wide Dream Builders which is a group of highly successful business associates which utilizes Quixtar. There has been many individuals achieve the Diamond level within 2-5 years. Some have done it in less than 2 years. There is far more than one couple who has achieved this distinct honor."
Well what I find interesting about your comment is you seem to be able to talk about all these couples, yet for some reason you failed to name any of them.
It sounds to me like many of you think all you should have to do to be very financially independent is to "show up". I heard the same comments from my family when I started a residual income business almost 2 years ago. I am very successful at that and I will be successful at this. We looked into it very carefully before starting our business, and there is nothing shady about it. Nobody will guarantee your success at it. I cant even guarantee you will show up for your 40 hour job. But I would be willing to bet you will never get anywhere working for someone else now.
2006 new Diamonds and above: 36
2005 new Diamonds and above: 25
2004 new Diamonds and above: 52
2003 new Diamonds and above: ??
(min 16 I've found listed)
So, in the last 4 years there has been well over 120 people qualify as *new* Diamonds and above. Unless you can show us when all of them joined, this post is bogus - I bet you can't even list the new Diamonds in that time, let alone how long it took them to go Diamond.
List all these Diamonds, when they joined, and when they qualified Drew.
"It sounds to me like many of you think all you should have to do to be very financially independent is to "show up"."
Who? and what did they say to make you think this? Or is this just another one of those comments where you take a jab at stereotypes?
"List all these Diamonds, when they joined, and when they qualified Drew."
You list them. This question has been asked many times and those who are actually in the business can never seem to know the answer completely. What does that say?
All you want to do is throw up a smoke screen. List the names of the Diamonds since you know how many and then let's do some research and find out if they were in for 5+ years before they went Diamond.
So unless you can do more then just provide numbers with nothing else your comment is bogus and the question of 2-5 years is still legit.
No smokescreen Drew. You obviously know a lot more than me, because I have no idea who all these new diamonds were. You apparently DO know not only who they were, but also when they joined and when the qualified. Obviously you must know all of that, otherwise you wouldn't have been able to say "in Quixtar’s history only one couple was able to go Diamond in 2-5 years" would you?
So please, Drew. Share it with us. I'm sure I'm not the only one who would love to know all the new Diamonds since Quixtar started, when they joined, and when they qualified. Since you must know, please tell us.
I would also ask to list the diamond's country of origin. Are these Quixtar (North American) diamonds, or are they from somewhere overseas. The reason I ask is I live in North America, and it really doesn't help me if 15 Koreans go diamond, since I have no intentions of moving to Korea.
But Drew, insider is an "expert" remember? LOL - He is also a liar.
Actually Insider I said one at the beginning and these are just numbers that I am aware of. I have not made claims like you have. As it stands I have heard of two couples who have done it in 2-5 years and anyone is free to add to that number if they know of more.
Funny you don't use this same logic when you write an article. But I guess you are the king of the double standard aren't you.
I am waiting on those names Insider, after all you are the self-proclaimed expert on Quixtar. I know you tried to claim you got that title here, but since we all know that is a lie I guess it is a self-proclaimed title.
Hi everyone, I took some time to read this 2-5 year thing and really, I see a lot of senseless arguments. I think if both parties look at this objectively, it can really help us understand whether IBOs should continue and make a positive economic profit or that the opportunity costs is too hefty(I am currently taking microeconomics, bare with my language).
Drew has a point, is the numbers seriously do not add up. 2% of 1000 is 20...so 2% of a number greater than 1000 would be...more than 20(duh). Where are they?
Obviously it's not cause they don't have the drive. I remember clearly, the plan showed to me. I remember the function and seeing the diamonds, double diamonds, triple diamonds, and the CA. I guarantee that everyone who attended the function wanted to be the one up there, joking to your downlines and play the role model. What's missing?
Let's solve the mystery of the people first, cause until I read this forum, I thought there were plenty of diamonds who did it in 2-5 years, not one.
Those who are defenders of quixtar, proud IBOs, how are you guys doing? I am currently in college, and its tough, I decided to wait a little to see and investigate. Are you guys breaking eagles or platinums? If so, great! How are you guys doing it? I'm sure once you get there it's smooth sailing is it not? What are your secrets? There are no reasons for you guys to hold back. If we don't throw all of this out there, the senseless bickering will continue.
I'm sure most of us if not all are more interested in what quixtar has to offer, not the indefinite loopholes thats trapping us.
Sorry, long post.
Fire
Drew:
"However with Quixtar starting in 1999 there was only 1 Diamond that I have heard of who actually did it in 2-5 years and that is the Dussaults."
Royceh@katewwdb.com:
"There is far more than one couple who has achieved this distinct honor."
Both agree here however, Drew:
"Well what I find interesting about your comment is you seem to be able to talk about all these couples, yet for some reason you failed to name any of them."
acts in full contradiction to his earlier acknowledgment for he tries to cast a shadow of doubt as if no such acknowledgment were ever made!
Bud, you are such a joke, A MONSTROUS JOKE! You are good for dog food!
A list of 79 IBOships that have qualified as Diamond or Founder's Diamond in North America for the first time sometime after Quixtar was launched is now available at Get the Facts - The Truth About Amway and Quixtar. This isn't all of them, just the names I've been able to find. Enjoy.
See Insider I told you, you could do it. You just have to apply yourself. Interesting though you include those who qualify as Founder's Diamond as well. Correct me if I am wrong but isn't a founder's Diamond someone who qualifies Diamond 12 months straight?
I wonder how small that list gets if we have just those who qualified Diamond their first month? Also, do we have anyone else in that list that has done it as Quixtar only Diamonds?
I see only the two couples who are mentioned on this thread. Out of those 79 how many did it in 2-5 years?
Way to be selective with you cut and past Cristian. That individual made a claim about several individuals going Diamond in 2- 5 years and even went so far as to say some did it in less then 2 years.
I suppose in your IBO mind as long as you agree with it you will believe it. The way I figure it, if he claims to have this information about WWDB Diamonds he should have no trouble putting some names with those numbers, and I found it interesting he didn't. His comment had nothing to do with my article stating the only couple I had heard of was the Dussaults.
If I am such a joke to you, why do you waste your time posting here? I thought IBOs were supposed to leverage their time to make themselves successful business owners?
Let's not forget the fact remains Cristian that I have repeatedly gave you the chance to prove me wrong and put me in my place, and each time you backed down. You don't strongly believe like you claim and the mere fact that you backed down proves that.
I listed the founder's diamonds because they may have qualified directly for that and thus not be shown on any lists of new 6-11 month diamonds. The lists were mostly of diamonds. More than 50 of them. Who's putting up smokescreens now?
Now, I have no idea how many of them did it in 5 years or less. But I'm not making any claims to know. You are. But you have no idea how many of them qualified in 5 years or less either, do you?
Your making blog posts trying to discredit Quixtr from a position of ignorance. Which wouldn't be so bad except for the fact you KNOW you don't know, but went ahead and did it anyway. Some might consider that deceitful.
What claim did I make? That I have only heard of one couple to go Diamond in 2-5 years with Quixtar? Are you seriously trying to debate what I have heard and have not heard?
I have had one other person come here and mention another couple and now the number I have heard of stands at two, and I have stated so accordingly. I am not sure you understand the definition of a smokescreen.
The attempted smokescreen here is you trying to make this out as if I have made some sort of claim here when you know that isn't true. Of course you still have not told me what my claim is yet either.
I am not trying to discredit anything. The facts speak for themselves and if you feel they are discrediting....well I guess that says something doesn't it.
Your list of 79 names can now be broken down. Who has done it in 2-5 years? I only see two couples on there that I have heard of before and they are the two mentioned on this thread. I see at least 10 names that I know for a fact didn't do it in 2-5 years.
But let's say all 79 did it in 2-5 years. Heck, lets triple it and say 237 did it in 2-5 years. With somewhere around a million IBOs signing up during those seven years, your numbers still don't look to good.
OK, so there's been, what, 100+ new Diamonds. You've heard of almost none of them. You know you have no idea how long it took most of them too qualify, yet you do a post stating "Now what if you were told that in Quixtar’s history only one couple was able to go Diamond in 2-5 years? How do you feel about that 2-5 year plan now?" - even though you have no basis for asking that?
Why not say "now, what if you were told that in Quixtar's history one couple was able to go Diamond in 6 months?How do you feel about that 2-5 year plan now?" That might be true too - I don't know. Neither do you. You have absolutely no idea if 1,2,3 or 20 of those new Diamonds qualifed in less than 5 years. You have no idea. You know it and I know it, and now everyone else does it.
So your defence now of such a bogus post? It's a small number compared to the total number of signups - the old "99% fail" myth - as if just registering as an IBO means you'll be a diamond, regardless of any effort. How many of those people that didn't qualify as Diamond showed at least 1000 plans, generally considered the minimum work to go Diamond? Do you know? No, you don't. Neither do I. But without knowing that, you're just making BS comments from a position of ignorance - again, even when you know you're ignorant and don't have a clue. But you don't care do you?
Hey Brad & Cristian,
Why aren't you guys Diamond yet?
Too lazy I guess.
HTH
Cheers
ibofightback/insider said: "Your making blog posts trying to discredit Quixtr from a position of ignorance. Which wouldn't be so bad except for the fact you KNOW you don't know, but went ahead and did it anyway. Some might consider that deceitful"
Joe says: I thought you were well educated, but many times I have seen you use the word "your" when indeed it should be "you're", which means "you are". Hmm.......
Well, again guys...objectively, who DON'T the numbers add up? That is not an average. "On average, an active IBO working form 2-5 years make 150,000" was what my upline told me during the plan. I really don't see the average, or the percentage. It may be true that people posting on here don't know, but I'm sure y our uplines, somewhere up there will have a better knowledge. Why don't you guys ask them, and then let's see what we get as answer.
I really hope Drew is wrong, and I'm sure he does too...
I've checked out Insider's list and here is what I found:
He lists 79 Diamonds in total
31 of those went Emerald before 1999 (source Amquix Pin Winner page)
27 of those went Emerald after 1999
21 of those I was unable to determine when they went Emerald or when they started as IBO's
1 Couple actually went Diamond in 1983 (Jack & Magee Spencer)and are counted as going Emerald before '99
Note - I compared to the New Emerald list on amquix, because that is the only reference I have for how long these IBO's may have been in before going Diamond...I wish I could find data on the "undertermined" IBO's.
Inarguably, it CAN be done in 2-5 yrs, no?
Argument: 1) People are deceiving "recruits" by advertising it as 2-5 yrs
OR 2)Are the BSMs what is holding people back?
I compare this to the 4-minute mile. Say I am a coach, I am hired to coach a team of high school students. I say "This is the mile run. It can be run in under 4 minutes" Am I lying? Does the current athleticism of the people standing in front of me matter? I don't believe so. It CAN be run in under 4 minutes, just like diamond CAN be reached in 2-5 yrs. What is the variable? Personal effort and work ethic.
As for systems helping or hurting? Sure, good argument and could be good discussion. This could compare to a coach of a track team saying: To get better, eat a heavy meal immediately before getting on the track. Obviously crappy advice. But for the most part, no coach, in or out of this business, forces anybody to do anything and the responsibility still falls back on the individual.
I remember Roger Banister as the one who broke the 4 min mile, not his coach. And I fully believe it was his work ethic, persistence, and positive attitude that made the difference.
Hey IBOs, I've got some fantastic swampland down in Florida for sale. If you work on it consistently for 2-5 years, you can build up a whole golf course and prime real estate, as well. If you are interested, I suggest you buy my next CD called "Raking through the mud to get to what's real!" :]
Do you need tapes books and seminars to be able to run a mile in uder 4 minutes?
"OK, so there's been, what, 100+ new Diamonds. You've heard of almost none of them. You know you have no idea how long it took most of them too qualify, yet you do a post stating "Now what if you were told that in Quixtar’s history only one couple was able to go Diamond in 2-5 years? How do you feel about that 2-5 year plan now?" - even though you have no basis for asking that?
Why not say "now, what if you were told that in Quixtar's history one couple was able to go Diamond in 6 months?How do you feel about that 2-5 year plan now?" That might be true too - I don't know. Neither do you. You have absolutely no idea if 1,2,3 or 20 of those new Diamonds qualifed in less than 5 years. You have no idea. You know it and I know it, and now everyone else does it."
Everyone knows what? That you cannot prove more then two couples have done Diamond in 2-5 years?
You are so insecure in your defense of Quixtar that instead of foster a discussion to get to the number you just post a bunch of names, and call the author a liar, even though you cannot prove me wrong.
I even gave you a HUGE benefit of a doubt a tripled the number of people you listed and said "What if they all did it in 2-5 years?" Your numbers still suck even then, and that is including your founder's Diamonds in that list.
So if the point is that you don't have any idea, we all knew that already. If the best you have for us is 79 names which TD has already started slimming down, in the end your numbers still look horrible. But thanks for the names.
Why oh why when all else fails IBOs have to resort to tapespeak? Thank you Brad for the 4 minute mile analogy, yet again.
But tell me this are you then saying that only two couples (that we know of) have put in enough personal work ethic and effort to acheive Diamond in 2-5 years out of over 1 million IBOs?
Are you comfortable showing a prospect the 2-5 year plan and then telling them that only 2 out of over a million was actually able to do it? Do you think that prospect will sign up after hearing that?
I find it simply amazing that you don't see any other variable at work other then personal effort and work ethic.
What a ridiculous post Brad. Going diamond has also been done in 2 years. Why not call it a 1-2 year plan?
The point is if most diamonds tak 6-7 years to go diamond, then it should be a 6-7 year plan.
The reason why critics harp on the "quixtar only" diamonds is because it clearly will show since 1999, how
many went diamond in 2-5 years, or 2-7 years now. If there are only two (2) as Drew has pointed out, then maybe the system does not work.
Also, when one of insider's flunkies posted a list of "new diamonds", it listed Ron Puryear as a new CA. Well, he may be a new CA but he has been a diamond since the 1980s or so. He certainly is not a "new" diamond.
"I find it simply amazing that you don't see any other variable at work other then personal effort and work ethic. "
Drew, read again. I left the business system side open to discussion. Crappy coach, ie crappy upline, can definitely affect your ability to develop this business. But it is not a viable excuse to why you failed, you had to choose to let that be your excuse.
Never the less, I am fine with the 2-5 year plan Drew, hence why I am still an IBO. (Tapespeak: so anything you deem as could have, or has, been said on a business related training tool is now discounted or disallowed from discussion? RIDICULOUS! I have never heard this comparison before I thought of it the other day. Sure, it could have been influenced from what I have learned in books and on CDs, many of which I have from outside system sources, and it could have been said by someone else, but that does not make it less relevant.)
The atmosphere of Webraw: Drew, et al, try to control what is deemed "tapespeak" or "IBO brainwashing" as valid arguments against stated claims, opinions, and even sometimes facts. This control, to me, is an attempt to keep focus on their singular view of a certain topic. This one being: that because most people don't reach diamond in 2-5 years it discredits the opportunity. Sure, Drew, I can come to you with quotes from successful people, my own opinion, and even my experience, but none will change the fact that YOU only know of 2 diamonds that started Quixtar businesses only and reached diamond in less than 5 years. You then draw a conclusion from that based in your personal logic. This logic and thoughtprocess I can discuss, but you are not one that is willing to accept mine, or other people's, conclusions from the same facts. It is deemed "tapespeak" or "spin" or some other label. Well Drew, you win. You have created your own blog post housing your own thought process, and you have found others to believe in your thought process thus validating you, all while dismissing potential arguments as "tapespeak" or other derogatory labels. Congratulations.
And JoeCool: yes, tools are necessary to run the 4 min mile. Gear, nutrition, accessbility to running areas and coaching. There are tools for everything. Your opinion: tools on a weekly basis aren't necesary. Great. Other opinions: they are necessary and helpful. Some others besides BWW and WWDB that say the same thing: Nightingale Conant, Zig Ziglar, sales industry leaders, Mike Litman's "Greatness nation", Kiyosaki, and even though Trump doesn't have a sales tape blaring daily, he definitely reads -- Notice how just about every page in his books have a quote from someone else? Now, JoeCool, let's compare your lifestyle to that of those mentioned above, who would I rather listen to? Fine, your opinion is tools are unnecessary. Thanks for sharing.
Brad, you need to read better before commenting. I never said no tools were needed. My position is that you don't need thousands of tapes books and seminars to teach you the basics of the business:
1. Sell products
2. Buy products
3. Share the concept and gets others to join you.
Brad,
You sound very angry that there are differing opinions to yours on this site. What you are missing with regards to Drew’s statement that there have only been 2 Q only diamonds (that we know of) is that I think that most of us critics really are interested to know if there are other TRUE Q-only or 2-5 year Diamonds out there. However, from my experience in the biz, historically, there just haven’t been any that I’ve heard of in the US, just the theoretical “Plan” to Diamond in this time period.
On tapespeak, the fact of the matter is that many of us, including myself and my H, have heard and said ourselves the very examples, anecdotes and analogies that many IBO’s who come to this site use as their argument. I think part of the reaction to this is based on the frustration we felt as IBO’s (those of us critics that were) when we would get these answers from upline, who may or may not have known the truth about the lies we discovered later. Therefore, when I read a comment here that I’ve heard from stage or on a tape, my gut instinct as a former IBO is to not trust the poster. Unfortunately, you used the often-used “4 minute mile” example. I’m sorry, but if I had 100 PV for every time I heard THAT particular analogy in the biz, I’D be a Diamond (OK, at least Platinum). ;)
What fact are you trying to convey about the existence of 2-5 year Diamonds? If you have a name, by all means, please share it. The facts are that out of the 79 new 2000-2006 Diamonds that Insider listed (I understand that this list is not necessarily a complete list) 40% of them went Emerald before 1999. The others went Emerald after (or it was unknown when), but we have no data showing when these people actually started their businesses. If I had this data available to me, believe me, I would have analyzed it, whether or not it proves or disproves this critic’s personal opinion that a 2-5 year Diamond in the US has been very, very rare.
Can we just clear up something here Drew, what is it you are trying to say?
The 2-5 year plan is impossible?
No, you can't be saying that, since you even gave one example.
So it's possible.
So what's the problem?
Brad,
DITTO to everything TD said in response to you. I echo those thoughts in my reply to you and I add the following:
This blog is not my blog, I was asked to be an author here, and therefore I have articles posted here. Yes, these articles are from my thought process, who's thought process would you like me to use when writing? Please let me know how I am supposed to use the thought process of another person when I am writing articles authored by me.
Second, there is no control here. If I was trying to control anything I wouldn't allow comments to my posts. The facts however are that I like the comments and expect the discussion that takes place after the article to shed even more light on the topic and thus giving even more information to someone doing research on this business.
Finally, I will call a spade a spade. Doesn't mean you have to agree with me and doesn't mean since you make a comment that someone has to agree with you. What you could do is come to me with more then just quotes and experience since those are relative, and you could actually come to me with more people who became Diamond in 2-5 years with Quixtar. Instead you want to give me stories, and quotes, etc. Sorry, but those don't do anything for me and they don't do anything for people looking for some facts on this business.
"So what's the problem?"
The main problem is that this is shown in the initial plan to prospects, and here is why I think it is a problem:
When this plan is finished a prospect gets this idea that by working this plan they can make the pin level of Diamond and be making whatever amount of money goes along with that and they know that the plan says 2-5 years.
From the perspective of the prospect this is a good deal to make this much in 2-5 years where maybe previously they may not have seen that much money in decades. The way I see it (and a question I asked when shown the plan) is how feasible is this? The way to show how feasible is to look at the plans track record.
The track record (as it stands right now) is over 1 million have registered in Quixtar, and only two (that we know of) have made Diamond in 2-5 years. Is that the track record you want to be giving to prospects. With these numbers I now know why my sponsor gave me evasive stories, analogies, etc instead of answering my question.
If this information was given to the prospect after seeing the 2-5 year plan, I may be wrong, but I don't think they are going to be too excited about this.
So why is 2-5 years shown in the plan and not a more feasible time frame like some kind of average or median time frame? Why not use that time frame in the plan, and use those 2-5 year stories as examples of what could happen with the right combination of hard work, and catching the right breaks at the right time?
Personally I think telling a prospect that the plan is 2-5 years is setting yourself up for failure. Once they go find out that only 2 have done it out of over a million your going to have to address this issue anyway. I feel when a prospect sits down and sees 2-5 years, they are thinking of that as the rule (average time) and from the numbers I have right now, it seems to be the exception.
If claiming that the 2-5 plan is a reasonable and ethicalway of encouraging Quixtar, then just as the 4-mile is possible, most work out/ exercise facilities can claim that if you work out there, you, too can join the sub-four club. Let's have treadmill companies use that as a way to sell their products as well. The next Boston Marathon will be brimming with broken records before you know it.
insider/ibofb says: Can we just clear up something here Drew, what is it you are trying to say?
The 2-5 year plan is impossible?
No, you can't be saying that, since you even gave one example.
So it's possible.
So what's the problem?
Joe says: Winning the lottery is also "possible" but it's not promoted as a way to make a living. At least people who buy lottery tickets know the odds are against them.
And don't bring up your strawman argument. I know quixtar is not a game of chance, but still the bottom line is that very few people who get involved with quixtar make a substantial income from it.
I am an active IBO and am certain of one thing. If you work this business hard you will do very well and if you don't you won't. I am one of those horrible conservatives who thinks for himself and won't be led down the path by anyone. While most of the business opportunity is positive I do take issue with perceived deception. I believe the 2-5 year plan can be done if you work it a a full time job. It will never be done in a few hours a week and I never thought it could. Our title is given as Independent Business Owner. If you want to be successfull start thinking like one. If you want to be successfull be who you are and put the ideas to work that work for you. I respect my upline but he is not God. I will listen to his input and use as much of it as I can but if it does not suit my style or manner I will find another way. You will be what you think so I suggest that you start thinking instead of letting the next person do it for you.I do not subscribe to cep . I trade cds with others. I do not subscribe to communikate, I get the info from others.
I buy my household needs from the quixtar site monthly on the ditto system and relly like the convenience. I spend no more monthly than I did before quixtar came along. It cost me $200.00 to enroll with quixtar and ltd and it cost $65.00 to renew yearly. If you think thats robbery I suggest you check out other ecommerce sites to find out what robbery is.
Bottom line. something for nothing does not exsist. this is not a get rich quick scheme but you can make a little or a lot as you apply yourself to it. Are Americans lazy today- yes they are. I try to find help for my plumbing business on a regular basis. most people are glad to get the check as long as they don't have to work for it. that won't happen with quixtar. If you don't want to work you won't make any money. As for deception I believe they need to tell it like it is. I do with every prospect and I gain their trust and respect for doing it. My downline knows if they call me I will be there. TI suggest you all quit complaining,use the brains God gave you, apply common sense to every situation and get to work. I don't know how that money tree in your back yard is bit mine is dead. I work for a living and get amazing results. the harder I work the luckier I get
Fred,
The problem is that the plan advertises 8-12 hours a week to accomplish the 2-5 year plan. It's shown as simple to do -it is not.
quick comment, i don't know what team you are with, but i am affiliated with TEAM, Orrin Woodward and Chris Brady... about your 2-5 year thing... your facts are wrong, Tim and Amy Marks made diamond in 31 months... and they aren't even the fastest to do it!
Team IBO,
Wow, you have one example of one diamond who did it in 31 months. What about the other millions of IBOs who signed up since quixtar's inception?
What i do not understand is the anger shown to the Amway/Quixtar business system. If a 2-5 year plan was first shown to you or someone you know and they do not obtain it, it is hardly the point of the matter. This is designed to run along side what ever you are currently doing, so your not wasting time. Your not wasting money because the value is not just within the business its transportable into any other area in your life. I think the problem stems from people focusing on diamond as this end goal, instead of actually taking the time to see the benefits along the way. Im at 3% and have been for the past year, not the best growth with money, but i have learnt more about myself and people around me because of it, than i have in the last 24 years of my life. So what if i get to diamond in 10 more years, at least the 10 years I have going ahead are actually going to be made with a clear head instead of one with poor vision and no planning. Why not look at it like you would with life and see that its actually just a reflection of whatever you put in to it. clearly for me, and my situation I have not put enough work (show the plan) as I should for it to be where i want it to be. difference is, you cant get angry with the system, when its a static. You are a variable. So instead of getting angry you learn why. All the best to everyone
BTW, I bet there are more lottery winners than diamonds. But its not all about money, this is why its so hard to discuss when people only look at the business system as a money making machine. Again, I have been dating my gf for close to 2 years. I never wanted to get married because most people around me have become divorced due to whatever. I never saw much in getting married, now I look forward to proposing. I have found some great (affordable :) ) rings and am looking at spending my time with her. I know that doesnt sound like much to someone but for me thats a thing I can be proud of. I dont think its ALL the business, hey i have a brain in my head. BUT i dont think i would of made the descision at the time I did. I dont know what you guys see as important, but i think overall general wellbeing: health, wealth, relationships, good morals etc are the backbone. If i attended seminars only for making money Id of left ages ago because its fake. but I think its about looking into what you want from life. the business is just a mathematical system which allows X amount of input to equate to X amount of output. NOT all of it money. like i said, i have got a lot of input (Show the plan) but the output has been learning about myself. IF i got in for money only, and i put the exact same input in as i have, and basically no money (output) well i wouldnt of been rewarded and so i would of left. Its all about why I chose to get in. Money we can all make, i dont know anyone who has made themselves a better; athlete, writer, doctor, whatever without actually learning about themselves in the process. Again, some people have a different arena to learn about themselves, for me. It was Amway for someone else it could be becoming a dad, or joining a baseball team or something out of their comfort zone. This business isnt perfect, and anyone in or out thinking that is fooled, but it is something unlike anything else I have been in, and as a result the rewards are like anything else ive ever had.
I spent time on the Team of Destiny back in '05. Supposedly Tim and Amy Marks made Diamond status in 18 months. They were the shining “anyone can do this…” model of success.
I saw the plan about 20 times before I finally decided to give the business a try. In TOD, the 2-5 year plan was always presented as a path to early retirement and financial freedom. The higher pins would like to throw around the phrases “financially independent” and “job optional” to rile the crowd up. As a prospect, there was no mention of what “Diamond Level” was. Not once did I see any hierarchy of the titles one could achieve in the Quixtar business and the income associated with that title. I was clueless. When I asked those who were prospecting me “How many people are able to pull off the 2-5 year thing and retire?” Their answer: ANYONE WHO WANTS TO!
Posted by: X-TEAMster | February 19, 2007 5:42 PM