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January 5, 2007
Still Unknown
By QBlog in Quixtar
Just a reality check for everyone out there — unlike Amway, Avon and Mary Kay the Quixtar business is a complete unknown. And the way most people not in "the biz" explain Quixtar to the ignorant is by saying "it used to be Amway."
So, why not change the name back to Amway? Isn't it about time?
Comments
Honestly, what is your problem? Pathological, frustration related, medication related... I don't quite get it, unless you are intrinsically evil in character.
I have a goat problem.
Cristian,
His upline told him to do it. Plus, it's on all those CDs he listens to.
Does Avon and Mary Kay have 'professional development programs,' too? Or don't people get rich doing those things?
I read the title and thought it might have been about the great "insider outing" :-) hahahah
This topic though seems to fly in the face of the critics on the forums who claim everyone runs when you mention Quixtar. One even claims just talking to a stranger in DC will generally elicit a "Are you in Quixtar?" type of response.
Unknown or not?
LOL!! Even the Grand Rapids Press took a "dig" at this - pointing out that all the PR people at the Corporation had been making sure the Press used the "correct" names for years now.....
And then all of a sudden, these TV ads keep saying "I am Amway"....LOL!!
Deb
May be the corp thought that for the hordes of Y2K immigrants, the name Amway wouldn't be very appealing. May be they wanted a name that better conveys the "get rich quick" idea.
I think the stigma of the Amway name still haunts IBOs today. My uplines told me to not mention Amway unless directly asked.
Wow. QBlog being accused by an IBO of possibly being intrinsically evil because he asked why Quixtar doesn't just change its name back to Amway.
Christian, think about what you wrote. Perhaps you will realize how deep you are into the system and hopefully take a step back.
I wrote about this a while back. My theory is that Amway will come back to the U.S. in some form.
Alticor recently bought the naming rights to the Arena in Orlando (where the Orlando Magic play) and promptly named it Amway Arena. I believe this has something to do with China, but naming a U.S. Arena after a company that does not exist in the U.S. was a bit fishy.
Maybe Quixtar came from this:
Don Quixote de la Mancha (IPA: [don ki'xote ð̞e la 'manʧa]) or El ingenioso hidalgo Don Quixote de la Mancha
The adjective "quixotic", at present meaning "idealistic and impractical", derives from the protagonist's name, and the expressions "tilting at windmills" and "fighting windmills" come from this story.
"Dream, the impossible dream..."
So this is what insider has come down to? Finding child like excuses to discredit ppl?
This topic though seems to fly in the face of the critics on the forums who claim everyone runs when you mention Quixtar. One even claims just talking to a stranger in DC will generally elicit a "Are you in Quixtar?" type of response.
Ppl HATE MLM marketing mostly because of amway. And they can smell it. They may not know the name Quixtar in some places but they all know very well abusive infamous amway. It does give IBO some time to sucker them to see the plan but when you see the circles it's not a secret any more.
On Memphis ppl may not know Quixtar as well as in DC or NJ.
Changing name to amway may help some retailers. Is it amway? You bet. Want some products? Oh yeah my granny used some, those were not bad. But I don't wanna be a rep. Oh don't worry about it. I won't pressure ya at all. Ok, sounds good. 5 minutes, done.
Instead of leaving bad taste in prospects who felt they were cheated to see the 1.5 hour plan.
Living in Grand Rapids, Mi and still an IBO, but no longer "on system", I can say that just the mention of Amway within any of the Quixtar functions in this area was extremely taboo. I haven't been to an open, monthly or "major function" meeting in over a year, however I do intend to go to an open meeting and see how they explain it. One of the huge points they constantly made was "because we don't pay to advertise that leaves more money to paid back to the IBO's". a MAJOR point in explaining how one makes money in the biz (without revealing the turth about the system is where the bulk of income is received for the select few). Like everything else I am sure it is explained all nice and neat and if you get "on system" you will understand the truth. I do find it interesting that as much as they tried to distance themselves from the Amway name the only way they can try to rebuild a positive image is to use the Amway name and not Quixtar.
GR Jimbo
Ill agree with Amway having a bad rep... specially here in asia -_- i was thinking of having an international leg here, but i heard my dad said that Amway used to be good here in Indonesia/Philippines, but now have a very bad rep.
Imran - my plan takes 15-20mins. What on earth are you doing for 1.5hrs?
GRJimbo - are you claiming the incomes published on thisbiznow.com are false?
Christian - N21 broke 20 or 30 new Diamonds last year in Indonesia. eSpring and Nutrilite brands got named as "most trusted brands" in Asia by an independent RD survey. Doesn't seem to be doing too bad at all.
Well, they just seem to have a bad rep, and my potential prospects still live with their parents...
"Christian - N21 broke 20 or 30 new Diamonds last year in Indonesia. eSpring and Nutrilite brands got named as "most trusted brands" in Asia by an independent RD survey. Doesn't seem to be doing too bad at all."
WHY isn't that happening in USA-Canada? They should be more well known, here in USA.
A business called the "American Way" would expect to do well overseas, since America IS envied by many around the world.
Of course, the business is still young in Indonesia I would expect?
Imran - my plan takes 15-20mins. What on earth are you doing for 1.5hrs?
Sign me up.
And tell all the other IBOs why, why oh why their plans take MORE than 15-20 minutes?
We once assembled a very sharp, well off set of prospects in one of our downline in Tampa. Average prospect drove merc. there. My upline spent 1 hour just describing what merc. is to those who were driving it!!!! In middle of it, in his typical condescending manner ask a lady
"What do you drive"
She said, "Merc. But now I'm so sick of it, I'm planning to change it!"
Did he shut up? no. All prospects wanted to see the plan. The real plan. The numbers, the works.
My downline, which was a doctor, told him later that show short plan, make session more interactive. Q/A are very important. My upline (Ahmer Azam) said, "I want to answer all their questions in the plan so they don't have to ask".
Brilliant, isn't it?
Btw my downline was having little problem arranging a board. It was their first plan. And he yelled at 50 year old lady "I'm coming from so far to show the plan to two-penny prospects you gathered, and you don't even have a white board?".
Board was arranged btw. very much in time. And he was late an hour. And he promised to follow up and didn't.
And.....he took over to show the plan. Either me or my mom were to show the plan. He told us not to even go there and he'll show the plan. And he blew it like that.
He is in Vishal / Nanda LOS in Gala. Need his number? Ask him why not 15-20 minutes plan?
every single plan I attend before and after I joined Amway are minumum 1 hr long and more. One more insider lie about 15-20 mins. 15-20 mins is sufficient for asking crap like 'What are your dreams? If money is not a constraint, what will you do? etc etc'
I was in Raj Shaw organization under Gala team. I don't know about others but Indians(dots not feathers) are infamous for dragging the plan for ever.
Home Plans/Open Plans are a slightly different kettle of fish (or goat if you prefer). The home plans we do have the same kind of sponsoring rate as "old-style" home plans, but from the non-interested our response generally is "that was really interesting - the business part is not for me, but I learned a lot, thanks!". It's about education (and interaction!). Educate people about financial intelligence. In oh Ooptimal Health talks, we educate people on that. Some people buy our Nutrilite, but I can guarantee pretty much everyone will walk out and buy Omega-3 at least from *someone* - that's a lesson everyone needs to learn!
So, make sure your prospects get what you told them they would get. People feel ripped off if they feel deceived or they feel they were not treated with respect - just as we all would.
Regarding your "two-penny prospects" comment, let me contrast with my early experience, and perhaps why I have a far more positive view of this business than you. I had my upline come to do a home plan for us. And he came 1000km to do it. None of our prospects showed. One of our downlines prospect showed. None of the downline showed - not even the one with the prospect! As you can imagine, we felt awful. Upline's response? Showed the plan to the one prospect, who wasn't interested, laughed with us about it afterward, said, yeah, that can be normal, just part of the business.
I know nothing about your upline but what you say. We don't know what was happening in his life to make him act that way. Sounds like he was rather stressed though.
Willy - Amway has been 15+ years in Indonesia, not exactly young. And one of the comments I get most about Amway in international markets is "why don't they change the name from Amway - it's sooo American!". So how about we swap. We'll take Quixtar, you go back to Amway? :-)
Christian - people still living with parents probably aren't the best prospects anyway. Their parents on the other hand .... :-)
Imran,
I can certainly understand your extreme frustration with someone like that but it's so CLEARLY the PERSON and NOT the PLAN or the SYSTEM (at that point, anyway).
We have an upline (just the husband...the wife is great!) who blew out several of our downline. We just found out he's been doing that for a couple of years. We went to our upline diamond and he had a talk with our "upline" eagle & he has totally stepped off and backed off. He's kind & professional but not "in our business" like he was.
So, an IBO IS able to go around the nut-jobs in this industry. They're everywhere Imran. You can get around it and you can run a respectable, legitimate business if you really want to.
Amway got a bad rep because of some nut-jobs who got so intense and forgot that it's not a world religion....it's a business. A business with some of the world's most classy association that you're ever going to find.
That's our experience anyway.
Anon
Well, my current age limits my prospects to 16 to 30. Ive only had a 1 ibo thats 52 and a couple of prosumers cuz they like the products -_-
Uhh, my houseplans are min 45mins max 1hr 30. If i do it myself, its min 10mins max 30 (thus like a coffee kinda thing)
"One more insider lie"
Typical critbot response. If somebody is doing something different or experienced something different to what they experienced - they're a liar!
Mind you, I've noticed that if I so much as say "that's not what I experienced" I get accused of calling the other person a liar!
Prasad, did you ever consider that maybe my organization does things differently to the way yours did? Did the possibility cross your mind?
anon, your PV is still going to that nut job, right? Your pin level is still being counted in his qualifications? Can you change your LOS to say a non system one?
If it was some other industry, we would have thousands options. I've complained Quixtar about it. Nothing happened.
And this was one, just one of many incidents. if he was "stressed", I won't even bother mentioning it.
"GRJimbo - are you claiming the incomes published on thisbiznow.com are false?"
-Insider -
I never stated anything in my comments about incomes being false.
We will use the website you stated for some facts, I have no issues with any of the numbers they report. Some of the numbers do reveal some interesting stats however. Overall only .012% of all IBO's made diamond in 2005. $146,995 annually in bonus and payments to a diamond is, although a good income($12,250 a month compared to the overall monthly average IBO income of $115), not exactly what is implied by diamonds or others. Based on the lifestyle many live (or what they say they live) there has to be additional income from somewhere....what could it be? BSM's maybe? You don't normally have multimillion dollar estates, yachts, sports cars etc on 147K a year.
The BSM issue is an embarrassment. The whole issue can be resolved very simply. Just be honest and open. But that falls under the "none of anyones business" category. Funny that everything revolves around achieving your dreams, financial freedom, earning enough of a passive income to "retire" from you "JOB", etc..., yet when questioned how this income is generated, you are treated as a traitor, non commited to the system and program, losing focus, etc. Then for good measure it is turned around that you are in the business to help people, worry about that and everythng else takes care of itslef....makes my head spin thinking about it all again.
Personally I understand and accept everyone has a choice, join or not, get on system or not. I think what they need to make clear is that Quixtar and whatever organization one is associated with are 2 SEPERATE buinesses. Quixtar is the product end and is what it is, the other part well I think that is where the problems begin. I am not sure how many people are aware and maybe repeating here, but those organizations are training and motivational organizations. Their primary purpose is to sell training and motivational material and senimar tickets....period. That is never revealed. Now quixtar has a responsiblitly in all this, but they can't bite the hand that feeds them. These organizations are the ones who bring in the people who buy they products that generate profit. Creating boards to manage and regulate is a good idea, execpt the people on these boards are the owners of the organizations they are to be regulating.
Overall there is a tremendous credibility issue hence the advertising campaign.
To Anon's: "It's not the Plan, it's the Person" theory.
The only people who know (and care) about the difference between Amway (The Plan) and the MOs (the People) are the people who are or who once were involved. Amway proponents always say, "Amway's not the villian here...consumers didn't actually have a bad experience with AMWAY, they had it with one of the MOs," but those consumers don't know the difference between the two entities. They're not going to know that the two are not related, so their bad taste is developed 100% towards the Amway name. We may know it's not all Amway's fault, but they don't, and when it comes down to it, they're the ones who really matter.
P.S...I say "the two are not related" and "it's not all Amway's fault" very loosely.
GRJimbo, every time on these forums I've asked for an example of a diamond with "You don't normally have multimillion dollar estates, yachts, sports cars etc" I've been given an example of someone who is not a diamond. Average income of EDCs and above is just on US$1,000,000/yr. You can easily have "multimillion dollar estates, yachts, sports cars etc" on that kind of income.
When the plan is shown, it's generally said "a founder's platinum averages this income, a founder's emerald averages this income, a founder's diamond averages this income and so on and so on". In our LOS that's pretty much it. How can that be deceitful?
I have very little idea what types of houses or cars most diamonds have, it's rarely mentioned. Some of the higher pins (EDC and above) have pictures in their "videos" and maybe talk about finally getting their dream house and show some pics, but there's not much you can get if you're earning a million bucks a year, indexed to inflation.
Your Boy,
never said the two weren't related. i was simply making a point. I think I made it clear enough.
Anon
Insider wrote "my plan takes 15-20mins"
Insider, U ARE A FRAUD
U told me in another post that you explicitly show people that u will be enrolling them into 2 seperate companies, with 2 seperate products, 2 seperate compensation plans, 2 seperate offices
U told me that u explained the 2 different companies, outlined the 2 different comp plans and how the leaders made the bulk of their income from N21 not amway..
15 minutes my arse, or u lied before.
either way, U ARE A FRAUD
ps i still think its pathetic how u insisted on leaving, came back, left again, and still float around out here
GR Jimbo claims "That is never revealed." regarding what the support organizations do. Apart from being all over the Quixtar and IBOAI websites, some organizations websites say exactly what they do, such as on www.n21corp.com. Our plan explicitly mentions N21 is a separate company setup to provide education and training services to IBOs.
Come on everybody grow up please. Quixtar/amway/life are about choices from the getgo. It's not a cult. There are no promises made. There is a lot of hard work. It is not a pyramid (like my job)> The "team" are my real friends. So are my friends at church where I also give money gettin "nothing in return" Stop whining and start growing. PS it's freakin fun too.And I don't HAVE TO DO ANYTHING I DON'T WANT WANT WANT TO!!!!!
mwood, i'm not a fraud, but you are most certainly a liar. I never said I outlined the N21 comp plan. I certainly never said that leaders make their bulk of income from that - because it's not true.
"We work with two different companies, Amway, which provides the products, logistics etc, and Network TwentyOne. N21 was started by some successful IBOs, Jim & Nancy Dornan in order to provide education and training services to people interested in building Amway businesses". Took less than 30 seconds.
Quite pathetic that you spend so much time bashing a company you failed with and are now in competition with. Get out and promote your company instead.
fyodoro,
Are you making a net profit after your system expenses? I bet are losing money and teaching others to do the same. :)
When you have a business that literaly ANYONE can start, for as little as $50-100 , it's no wonder a company can get a bad rap. You don't know WHAT people are out there saying to the public.
remember, in 1959, home delivery and door to door sales were common and in demand. Some people only had one car, and certainly even if 2 cars, the wife was usually home with kids (kids = the Boomer Generation) as opposed to working Moms now.
it is no wonder this business had to be re-made into a networking business instead of a sales (door to door) business...
it is the practices of the networking part that has caused so much ill will.
fyodoro, I think you need to learn the difference between a pyramid shape, and a pyramid scheme. The pyramid shape is pointed at top, with a big base. Usually has four sides, but not necessarily.
A pyramid scheme is where given a certain number of participants in the scheme, the majority are spending more money on the scheme than they are making back, and the money they are spending are lining the pockets of the few who make money.
Perhaps the most well known scheme is the Ponzi scheme, where earlier investors are paid by the monies paid by later investors. No products are bought/sold. Generally, those who get in first come out ok, but those who get in later have little or no chance of getting their money back because there would have to be an exponentially larger amount of new "recruits" in order for them to profit. It is also mathematically impossible for everyone to profit because this is a closed system, and money going in is always more than money coming back to participants.
Selling a product/service does not make a Ponzi scheme legal! If instead of investing, people were buying a product, but the money was flowing just like a Ponzi scheme, it is still illegal. There are plenty examples of product based pyramid schemes that have been shut down.
Now, is Quixtar/Amway a pyramid scheme? The answer to that question isn't cut and dried, but there are some guidelines put out by the FTC, and other governmental authorities, depending on where you live. The big question is do you profit by mainly selling goods/services, or do you profit maining by recruiting more people into the scheme?
Now, we can argue that the buy from yourself and teach others to do system is illegal once again here, but please check the message board for said arguments.
Dan,
I like your Don Quixote analogy. It is so true!
"...but there's not much you can get if you're earning a million bucks a year, indexed to inflation."
This is easily the dumbest thing Insider has stated here. And he/she's said a lot of dumb things in the past.
A million a year is still a nice chunk of change. Less than 5% of the US population makes over a mill a year. And those cats seem to be living pretty good -- I make far less and I love what I have (but that has little to do with money).
The 'indexed to inflation' is obviously tapespeak. If you mean 'adjusted for inflation', you might have the right term pegged. Nice try.
Had you actually known what you were talking about, you would know that the rate of inflation has been pretty flat, only rising slightly.
Check out inflationdata.com and get educated. Repeating your upline just makes you sound stupid.
A typo quite obviously, thanks for proving my point. It should have been -
"there's not much you can't get if you're earning a million bucks a year, indexed to inflation."
Amway income is *indexed* to inflation, because it's based on product sales and the price of those products is obviously a part of that. Prices go up, your income goes up automatically.
And last I checked if you look over say the last 20 years the effect of inflation has not been "flat". I took you advice and visited the link you provided and discovered that even in the time I've been involved the effect of inflation has been 23.94% - by no means "flat". People I introduced 8 years ago still buy stuff today, and that income has not stayed in 1998 dollars - it's gone up as the price of products have gone up. The income is indexed to inflation. Marvellous huh? :-)
Don't post stuff when you don't know what you're talking about. Makes you look foolish.
the indexed or adjusted for inflation was a 70's era thinking from depression era founders... in actuality, prices due to more efficient distribution and manufacturing, have come DOWN on many products, EXCEPT AMWAY PRODUCTS.
That is part of the reason their prices are SEEMINGLY HIGH to most prospects.
I have never seen anyone say otherwise, unless they were 'indoctrinated' over and over, that "the prices are fair, are concentrated, are better quality, and like convenience store prices..."
besides, AMWAY's COSTS to manufacture have come down given they have no debt, yet their prices go UP, which means the founders get REAL WEALTHY, while the consumer... ah there are not many consumers... rather 'Independent business Owners' pay exhorbitant prices, with the dream of them too... getting rich.
I used to buy that "isn't it wonderful, how your income is inflation proof", but not anymore.
dmm:
"The big question is do you profit by mainly selling goods/services, or do you profit maining by recruiting more people into the scheme?"
Dmm, how long have you been an IBO? Did you know that profit is being made only when you and your team create volume? Profit is not made when you recruit people. The same scenario with a job: the employer makes no money if his employees do not perform, regardless of how many employyes he has.
"Now, we can argue that the buy from yourself and teach others to do system is illegal once again here,"
Why is that illegal? If you were the owner of your own, let's say, patistry, making cakes and pies, would you consume your own products most of the time or would you exclusively consume someone else's products?
As of Dec, 2006 -- "WASHINGTON (MarketWatch) -- Consumer prices were flat in November, the Commerce Department reported Friday, bringing the year-over-year increase in core inflation down to 2.2%, closer to the Federal Reserve's comfort zone of 2%."
Check Marketwatch or do your own research; I don't care, the rate of inflation has been flat.
You're just retreading your upline's propoganda. Try reading something and/or making a judgement on your own.
Cristian, I never said self consumption was illegal. In fact, it is a good idea. I only said that making money by recruiting only is illegal.
I will admit the law here isn't that well defined. If I am a baker and I buy my own pastries, I have to report what I make as profit. But if I'm the only one who ever buys my own pastries, first question, is it truly profit, and second question is, can I stay in business that long?
The answer to the first question is no, in my opinion. You are not operating a for profit business if you are your only customer, because all your profits originated from your wallet to begin with, so why should you be able to write off all your baking expense purchases? The answer to the second question is not for long, because all "profit" will be just money you switched from one bank account to another.
Now, let's add the MLM structure to the scenario. Let's say you not only bake for yourself, but teach others to do so, and when one of your downline bakers buys something from himself, you take a small percentage. Does this significantly change the dynamics of what is going on?
For you, the upline, yes, because you now can make more money by taking a bit from everything your downline buys. But what about your downline? Assuming they have no downline themselves, they will be spending more money on buying their baked goods (in order to "profit") then they will be getting back, especially since you cut into their "profits." Which begs the question, how can your downline become truly profitable?
Of course, recruit more bakers into their downline...Uh oh! Isn't this what I defined as a pyramid scheme? Profit doesn't necessarily come from the items you sell, but from recruiting more people into the scheme.
Let's now look at the buy for yourself and teach others to do so model in Quixtar. For simple math, let's say 33% of everything purchased goes into the hands of IBO's. Let's also say that there are no other clients buying from IBO's, and every single purchase comes from IBO's themselves. As a collective, could this group be making money? The answer is no, because for every dollar they spend on Quixtar, they can only get $.33 back. Sure some people at the top of the pyramid scheme might make more than they spend, but the majority are spending significantly more than they make...unless they too recruit more and get close to the top themselves.
It is a fine line, and there are arguments on both sides (insert Insider's comments). But the reality is, in the buy for yourself and teach others to do so model, those at the bottom with little or no downline will always be spending significantly more than they are making on Quixtar products. There is no argument. And if they do not retail (sell to non-IBO's), the only way they can rectify the situation is RECRUIT more IBO's into their downline, who are then placed in the same situation.
redbird - 1. I've never once spoken or heard my upline talk about inflation 2. Who cares what the inflation rate is over one year? We're talking about businesses that have existed for some cases for nearly 50 years. But even for one year, the income is indexed because it's based on current prices.
willy - I provided the data for just the last 8 years - 24% inflation. To claim it's "70s era thinking" in the light of that factual data just goes to show your inability to think straight with anything to do with quixtar.
THanks, dmm, for clarifying the flaw in the bakery analogy. I read you post before I launched into a rebuttal, and you took care of it. Well done,
cristian, ignore DMM, he's delusion. He doesn't understand that you ONLY make money in Quixtar when you sell product at wholesale or retail, not recruiting. He also doesn't seem to consider wholesale sales to be legitimate sales.
Back to the original question and those posed by Rocket, in 1999 when Quixtar was launched, the original idea was to operate Quixtar and Amway side by side in North America. The key distinction being that Quixtar was Web-based and Amway the traditional person-to-person model. We had all sorts of options for IBOs back then -- you could be Quixtar only, Amway only, Quixtar primary and Amway secondary or Amway primary and Quixtar as a secondary business. At some point, due to the confusion and various options, we actually took the opportunity names off publications to cut costs and confusion(a decision made before my time in Communications, I'm compelled to add!) and used only what we affectionately refer to as the Quixtar bug (the Q with the star in it.)
Within a few years of Quixtar's launch, IBO registrations in Quixtar soared, IBO registrations for Amway declined, and eventually Amway IBOs moved their businesses to Quixtar. So Quixtar became the identity under which the business opportunity operates in North America.
The Amway name certainly has greater awareness than Quixtar, built over 40 some years of doing business here. And, we didn't do as much as we should have to build Quixtar awareness until last year, with a number of initiatives and the launch of national advertising this past fall.
I don't deny that it's an intelligent -- and interesting -- question. There's been speculation fueled, as other posters point out, by the "I am Amway" ads and the naming of the Orlando Arena as the Amway Arena. But, these are reflections of the very diverse and global business that Alticor is and the unique challenges (like campaign-related attacks) the company has faced. Even this week we got questions about the "I am Amway" ads that ran in Michigan last fall. The campaign is over, the attacks have ended, the ads are done and our focus returned to what we do to support the Quixtar business and Quixtar IBOs in North America.
Not that this matters, as this string has gone far astray of Eric's original post!
Insider,
YOUR just as bad at numbers as your beloved AMO's and Godfathers are.
"In the 70s, gold spiked to over $800, Inflation rates were over 14%, OPEC limited the supply of Oil, there were wars in the Middle East and the U.S. economy was a wreck" from an article by Tim McMahon at inflation data.com
your business, and it's founders are stuck in the past....
inflation 3 years prior to Amway inception: ave .4%, that is FOUR TENTHS of one percent, per year.
Inlation for 7 years AFTER Amway inception: LESS than 1.6% per yr.
Inflation from 1974-81 averaged 9.37% per year, mosy years were DOUBBLE DIGIT INFLATION.
Everyone knows inflation and cost of living exist, but prices have come down on many items.
The founders are stuck between a 'Depression Era' mentality toward a need to sell consumables, that "will be needed no matter how BAD the economy is", and the 70's Nixon era mentality of wage and price controls, that they have to "keep the prices high to cover inflation", inspite of more efficient manifacturing and distribution systems.
We'be been over this before, and please, Insider, stop putting words in my mouth. Of course I recognize wholesale as legitimate, but not in an endless chain of suppliers. Here's a question for you, does having a legitimate product and sales make anything legal, Insider? The FTC and other regulartory agencies seem to not think so.
http://www.ftc.gov/os/comments/businessopprule/522418-12585.pdf
Ahh, Willy, some simple maths for you. If you have 1% inflation each year for 2 years, then inflation over that 2 year period is 2%.
For 1997-2006 it has been 24%. Check it yourself
Sigh...
Actually Insider, it would be 1.94% adjusted.
Stick to hyperlinking - if you are that bad at math, no wonder you think A/Q is so great!
Sigh...
insider said: " cristian, ignore DMM, he's delusion. He doesn't understand that you ONLY make money in Quixtar when you sell product at wholesale or retail, not recruiting. He also doesn't seem to consider wholesale sales to be legitimate sales."
Joe says "While some of that may be true, how many IBOs make the big bucks without recruiting"? You may not get directly compensated for recruiting, but IBOs go hog wild recruiting because they know ultimately it is the key to building an MLM quixtar business.
If I am delusional, at least I'm not alone! Seems to me there is at least one other person, a former IBO at that, who lives in California who believes the same that I do. He or she has also managed to convince some high profile lawyers of the same, but most lawyers have delusions of their own, so I don't know if they count!
I doubt this case ever sees the inside of a courtroom, but will be fun to follow. And no, I'm not the person filing. I was never an IBO, and do not live in California. And no, I'm not schizophrenic.
http://www.amquix.info/quixtar_class_action_suit.html
AMWAY-QUIXTAR PR HACK BETH DORNAN WROTE>> Back to the original question and those posed by Rocket, in 1999 when Quixtar was launched, the original idea was to operate Quixtar and Amway side by side in North America. The key distinction being that Quixtar was Web-based and Amway the traditional person-to-person model.
Beth, shouldn't you give it a rest ;-)? Doesn't it get tiring? All this spin? You know you are starting to sound like "Insider".... you are not "Insider" by any chance, are you? So, you couldn't call it 'Amway-Online'? The decision didn't have anything to do with Amway's UNSAVORY REPUTATION?
AMWAY-QUIXTAR PR HACK BETH DORNAN WROTE>> We had all sorts of options for IBOs back then -- you could be Quixtar only, Amway only, Quixtar primary and Amway secondary or Amway primary and Quixtar as a secondary business. At some point, due to the confusion and various options, we actually took the opportunity names off publications to cut costs and confusion(a decision made before my time in Communications, I'm compelled to add!) and used only what we affectionately refer to as the Quixtar bug (the Q with the star in it.)
Within a few years of Quixtar's launch, IBO registrations in Quixtar soared, IBO registrations for Amway declined, and eventually Amway IBOs moved their businesses to Quixtar. So Quixtar became the identity under which the business opportunity operates in North America.
Really? :ROLL: Wasn't it more like, they had no choice in the matter? Wasn't 'Quixtar' a deliberate choice of name, to avoid association with the dreaded 'Amway' name? Heck, Quixmire (I think), a former IBO himself said on here, that he heard it straight from one of the IBOAI mavens, Paul Miller's mouth.
You know, you Quixtar Coporation clowns (especially Rob-the-pompous-ass-Davidson), only make the Amway-Quixtar corporation look foolish, every time you indulge in one of your 'spin'-games. You insult people's intelligence, every time you try one of your 'spin' routines.
Maybe, you should spend some time trying to actually FIX the problems/issues instead of trying to spin them away?
Alot of you talk about things like the whole realtionship to amway. I dont intend to ever degrade anyone who has their own opinions because not everyone is going to be a business owner and someone still has to work the dirty jobs. For those of you who dont know, Quixtar isn't just an entity by itself; it is run in conjunction with support systems, which there are dozens of them that partner with Quixtar. To top it off, 99% of you fail to mention Alticor, the parent company to Amway and Quixtar. Obviously, Amway and Quixtar are seprate entities in themselves. The latter simply revamped the system, made it better, got together with very credible software companies and the rest is history. Alticor controls the products that go through Amway and Quixtar since they are both separate systems through Alticor. So before you go saying what you want, realize this; it is a BUSINESS! Everyone in business will at some point have to spend more than they make, sometimes more than once. Because it is affiliated with the parent company of Amway, everyone automaticall assumes it is bad. Leave Quixtar to be made some other business system and no one would be skeptical, or at least a significantly less number of people would be skeptical. Those of you who don't understand the concept of business are the ones that are making wrong assumptions on how business is done. Quixtar modeled the Mcdonalds system of business, so why don't you all go and be skeptical about how they make money? Spend your money there, you won't make a penny return on it by just eating there. Realize the facts, and think about some things you say before you say them.
Brad: Quixtar modeled the Mcdonalds system of business, so why don't you all go and be skeptical about how they make money? Spend your money there, you won't make a penny return on it by just eating there. Realize the facts, and think about some things you say before you say them.
Joe: Because McDonalds doesn't recruit franchisees with deception and when they set up a new store, they do extensive research and and reasonably expect that store to profit.
Quixtar is a bad joke when compared to McDonalds. Please stop it already.
FYI: The above post was not me, the Brad from QBlog forums and TTAQ. Best of success to you, brad, in your business.
well, well... why ask why? When you've got the money and power, and your name gets trashed enough...it begins to degrade the money and power, of course. Time for a change, yes sir! Quixtar...that's a cute new name. It helps to cover the same old octopus nicely! And octopus it is, i assure you. No one but the head,..er..people, at Quixtar know where any tentical tip is, at any point in time, and even any one of those don't know where they all are....the rascally tips! Yes, and let's do a "what if"; what IF Quixtar and even the Duke Lacrosse case were, in some way, shall we say, connected! Yes, connected is a good word for today, Mr. Rogers......can you connected, boys and girls....hahahahahahaha.....
Perhaps Beth could field this one?
Not to put you on the spot Beth, but it is an intelligent question.
Or Robin.
What was with the name change anyways? I have really yet to see a reasonable answer to that question.
Posted by: rocket | January 5, 2007 2:39 PM