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December 25, 2006
"Very, Very Surprising"
By QBlog in Quixtar
Comments
Vocal web "critics" who have never been active IBOs -
Dean Van Druff - never an IBO
Robert Fitzpatrick - never an IBO
David Touretzky - never an IBO
Steve Hassan - never an IBO
Rick Ross - never an IBO
Robert Todd Carroll - never an IBO
Tim Williams - never an IBO
Peter Bowditch - never an IBO
Don't be so arrogant as to think he's only talking about this site. Though we could add -
Eric Janssen - never an IBO (wife was for less than a year)
Scott Larsen - IBO less than a year
"Anonymous" folk from the quixtarblog forums and elsewhere -
"lawdawg" - never an IBO
"dmm" - never an IBO
"Porkchopjim" - never an IBO
"judes" - never an IBO
There's more I'm sure.
looks like the AMWAY executive is the one that needs a dictionary, for the words "most" and "many".
what an appropriate name too.... "Rob" as in "Robber Baron"
anyhow, they'll need that dictionary in Korean too when THAT community figures out what is going on...
by the way, which one of those critics was never in the business....?
I'll wait for your answer:_____________
sorry, wrong link. Try this instead
insider, what... not enough traffic to your site. are you THE voice of Quixtar??
So, the Bob Davidson is misleading in his video. How about those who were active in the business and did complain?
What about my complain, Mr. Bob Davidson? About my upline Ahmer Azam, NY J, Upline Diamond Vishal, Nanda and Co.? How about them misleading facts they gave it to me? What happened to it?
Check your database, Muhammad Imran Aziz was active for a year. I stopped working as of June 2002 but Ibo ship expires dec 2002 so technically, it was a year and a half.
Bo Short documented his complaints and how Ken McDonald refused to support him.
What about Eric S registered letter straight to Rich Devos?
And PW complaints?
Could someone please enlighten me? Both QBlog and Imran seem to believe Davidson said "Nobody has complained". Qblog must have put up the wrong video, because he doesn't say that anywhere in that video.
So Imran, please help - where does he say nobody complained?
You dodging..again.
He said "Most of them never contacted us. Many of them weren't even active in the business. How can they go on web ....."
Right? (What about ppl who did contacted? That's what I said)
That sounds like he's implying negativity on the web is "mostly" by the people who were never active/were abused, never complained type of ppl.
With me?
As Qblog already pointed, one doesn't have to experience some thing to have an opinion about it. e.g. can I complain about PM of Canada? I was never PM. 2nd, how about prospects harassed by IBOs? 3rd, how about the people who "were" active and "did" complained? That video seems to write them off.
That video is saying criticism about Quixtar is "mostly" by ppl who were not active. So that is saying Quixtar is not going to fix any of those things.
Regarding "most", "loudest" is subjective. Eric S, Bo Short, and many others in this video were active and did complained. My question is, ok. What about those then? I complained 3 years ago. I did get a call from Quixtar confirming it. And then.....nothing?
Most of these AQMO are very deceptive, many of them are even downright cultish in their behaviour.
How somebody can go to the web and said that these incidents are isolated and are not systematic of the business, simply because they don't experience these themselves, is very..very surprising and dissapointing.
Nice Insider. Perhaps next you would like to tell us what the meaning of "is" is as well.
Reasonable people, after reading through this blog, will recognize that the Quixtar numbers just don't add up: The real numbers, not the hypothetical numbers thrown out in the plan.
It's an employee mentality that just accepts the numbers without proof. Business owners and investors demand full disclosure, not vague promises.
The Quixtar business simply does not survive the bright light of full disclosure. The only way it can survive is by conrolling the information flow to the potential IBO. (see whatever link Insider is promoting).
The truth should be liberating to Quixtar, and yet the truth that has leaked out on the internet over the last five years has shown the kingpins and Quixar to be very different from what they have promoted themselves to be.
It makes sense then that rather than focusing on fixing the actual problems with the Quixtar business and its leaders, Insider would be more interested in arguing about "most" and "all".
I provided a list of many prominent Quixtar and Amway critics who have never been IBOs on my site. I posted it here too, but it ended up in the "moderators" queue.
Kendall - it's my experience that many people who think Quixtar numbers don't add up think that because they believe Quixtar critics who make stuff up or ignore what the numbers actually mean.
Quixtar has nothing to do with my website. They've never contacted me about it, never said a word. Accusations they're "controlling the information flow" smacks of desperation on your part. The Facts articles link to 3rd party independent sources. Seems you believe Quixtar is the Illuminati or something :-/
Don't forget peopl who complained to the FTC or BBB about quixtar but never registered a complaint about quixtar.
Typical insider behavior, didn't experience it so it doesn't exist.
BTW with all insider "connections", did insider ever once make an attempt to correct all the problems identified on this board or simply try to "argue" the non existence of those probems?
Oh, and which complaints would these be JoeCool? The FTC received more than 3000 messages in support of Quixtar for the recent "business opportunity rule" proposes and just 2 against - one of which was Tex whinging about tools. The BBB has on average just one complaint a year relating to Quixtar IBOs.
So feel free to include them!
As for "correcting problems" - (a) if I'm not experiencing them, there's nothing to correct with my organization (b) I have made my position very clear regarding what some IBOs do, including writing a post about it on my site and numerous posts here - but as usual you ignore that.
(c) from what I understand most of the problems aren't occurring much any more. You just assume they are because the "systems" still run much the same way as before, ie the same way all business and education systems, run, particularly in the sales industry.
ps often my comments to this blog are being queued for moderation and not appearing.
Hey Insider,
Your website is wrong. Lawdawg was an Amway distributor. His father in law, a physician was in Amway and Quixar for years. He was a sapphire and recently quit.
Fred
sorry, missed the part in his story were he says he ran a retail amway business for "about 6 months". corrected
hmmm ... just on an interesting discussion on Wikipedia. Guess what the yearly prevalance of complaints is for Quixtar in North America, including all complaints registered at the BBB and all people who "complain" to Amquix, including foreigners? 0.0006%
Compare that with the percentage of people who qualify Diamond each year - .012% and who qualify Q-12 platinum - .1683%
That means that in the warped world of some Quixtar critics, where everything is "chance" - your "chances" of going diamond are 20 times higher than your "chances" of complaining, and your "chances" of going Q-12 platinum are nearly 300 times higher!
What a deal! :-)
My wife was an IBO from Feb. 2002 to Dec. 31 2003. My math comes up a bit differently than yours.
Technically I was an IBO during that entire time so in the official "Quixtar Records" I am listed as a former IBO though I never claim to be one.
I was in from 1998 to 2001 and achieved the level of Silver. I never complained to the FTC or BBB because I never really thought about it. This website and others like it have done far more than the BBB could ever do. I think the BBB is kind of a worthless, outdated organization anyway. The internet provides more current info for free.
I really don't care if anyone wants to give the Quixtar business a shot. I just want people to have more than the skewed, one-sided information that Quixtar puts out.
I was in from 1998 to 2001 and achieved the level of Silver. I never complained to the FTC or BBB because I never really thought about it. This website and others like it have done far more than the BBB could ever do. I think the BBB is kind of a worthless, outdated organization anyway. The internet provides more current info for free.
I really don't care if anyone wants to give the Quixtar business a shot. I just want people to have more than the skewed, one-sided information that Quixtar puts out.
insider, why do IBOs have so much trouble recruiting and retaining downline? Isn't it because quixtar/amway has a bad reputation?
Insider said: Quixtar has nothing to do with my website. They've never contacted me about it, never said a word. Accusations they're "controlling the information flow" smacks of desperation on your part.
This is because they (A/Q) have a reputation and track record of doing thhings behind the scenes to control information, just like their AMO's do.
1st was the google bombing stuff;
2nd, in my opinion is YOU infiltrating trying to discredit THIS blog and the bloggers HERE.
3rd.) the last point didn't work, which by the way I believe proves the 2nd point, is your NEW blog with lots of 'inside' information. You are now trying to make people believe your blog is a member supported blog, except there are NO members but you. It is a CORP blog. YOU ARE THE CORP's AGENT.
Am I the only one that beleives this?
wILLY
Joecool,
"why do IBOs have so much trouble recruiting and retaining downline? Isn't it because quixtar/amway has a bad reputation?"
Nope. It's called attrition. Something alot of MLM's have to face, not just Amway/Quixtar.
If you can figure out how to recruit AND retain people, let me know, we'll write a book about it.
Plus of course the what, hundred+ new diamonds and above in the last 6-7 years indicates there's plenty of people having no problem at all building the business.
JoeCool seems to think that because HE couldn't do it, that means nobody else can.
Willy - the "google bombing" claim re the corp was not exactly accurate. Assuming Jansen is telling the truth, an IBO leader admitted to google bombing, not the corp. The corp explicitly denied it to OJR. As for my site, it's now available in 3 languages with a 4th in process, 3 of which I can't write, so how exactly am I doing it all myself? Oh ... that's right, corp super agent. :roll:
Kendall - even Amquix publishes more letters in support of Quixtar than against it. More people went platinum in 2004 alone than ever posted some complaint on the internet. What "skewed" information from A/Q are you talking about? Given 6 of the top 10 websites on google are anti-quixtar sites, and there are virtually no official complaints about quixtar and a unofficial yearly complaint rate of 0.0006%, 300 times less than the yearly rate of qualifying platinums, I'd suggest the internet is incredibly skewed to the critics side, wouldn't you?
ROFLMBO!!!
I love it when a good video trips Insider's nerves and sends him into a tantrum.
But what is even better is his classic example of manipulating the situation to how it favors him. It's nothing new, heck politicians do it all the time.
The only problem is Insider has a site where he wants to convince you to believe what he writes. He tells you to arm yourself with his facts and myth articles before reading other sites. Yet, he only wishes to arm you with what he wants you to know and nothing else.
Like I said it's nothing new and he is more then free to do such tactics, but I just like the laugh I get when he goes into his tantrums when the facts he doesn't want you to know gets out. LOL!!
Michael,
I believe quixtar to be exceptional. It's why there are so many stories of people getting tricked into attending meetings, IBOs denying an amway/quixtar connection. Maybe there aren't a lot of formal complaints registered with quixtar, but I don't know anyone who doesn't know about quixtar and certainly, I don't know anyone who views quixtar favorably.
Whether or not critics have been IBOs has nothing to do with the validity of their complaints.
It would be nice for Quixtar to actually address specific complaints - are they true, partly true, or straight up lies; what is Q trying to do to address the problem - rather than disparage the people who are complaining. This doesn't lend them any credibility.
Yes, that's right, Quixtar never tries to fix anything. Diamond's like Joe Land were actually kicked out for stealing toilet paper from the Rich's office. Quixtar Arbitration is just a website and has no effect on "rogue" organizations. Founder's awards don't do anything to prevent people qualifying once as a Diamond through a 6 month push or buying a leg like Bo Short. FAA points have no effect at all on any tendency to build shallow unstable businesses for recognition rather than solid depth for stability and profitability. Television Ads do nothing to help the marketability of the products. Corporate blogs with comments do nothing to help the corporation get feedback from IBOs and former IBOs.
The more things change, the more critics are left in the past.
Yeah critics are left in the past and Quixtar just released new videos using the same old excuses for their business that they have been using since the days of Amway.
Nice try Insider but your comments are nothing more then just hot air spin.
What in the hell does Rob Davidson know about building a Quixtar business?
Was he ever an IBO?
Stupid.
Yes, you're right. Poor old Quixtar is left with the lame old excuse that 99.9994% of IBOs don't find anything worth complaining about so maybe the critics, many of whom are indeed inexperienced, shouldn't be listened to quite as much as "google" would have you think.
If quixtar/amway had such a shining reputation and that complaints/bad experiences are virtually non existent as insider would like people to believe, then why is insider so obsessed about trying to counter every argument made by "critics"?
There must be something to the critics points.
Insider,
Where did Quixtar directly admit that there were any problems as opposed to trying to cover stuff up and dismissing/disparaging critics?
And where did you get the 99.9994% statistic of IBOs don't find anything worth complaining about? Or are you mixing that up with the percentage of IBOs that lose money?
JoeCool is actually Eric Janssen's secret lover. I have photos to prove it.
If anyone tries to say I'm wrong that just PROVES there's something to it!
Joecool, your posts are getting more inane on a daily basis.
Rara, that was based on the number of people who have ever been IBOs in the US, estimated at over 15 million in 45 years, and the "complaint" rate of 1 a year at the BBB and 90-100 a year on amquix. This gives us a "yearly complaint prevalence" from existing and former IBOs. To get an absolute prevalence you'd need to factor in complaints over time - ie, there would presumably have been less in the first 5 years than the last 5 years simply due to the change in numbers of participants, even if nothing else changed.
Obviously needs tweaking, but it puts things in an interesting perspective.
Doug DeVos explictly stated in the video being referenced that obviously you'll have some people who encounter problems. But do you honestly expect ANY company to go around promoting the things it has wrong with it? Address it and fix it, sure, but to expect publicizing it is not exactly realistic.
"Poor old Quixtar is left with the lame old excuse that 99.9994% of IBOs don't find anything worth complaining about so maybe the critics, many of whom are indeed inexperienced, shouldn't be listened to quite as much as "google" would have you think."
...and your stats to prove this number are where?
At least I'm not a liar like you insider.
More Proof of insider lies. Here's an exchange that came from my blog:
Joecool said: "Merry Christmas to you insider. Please come back after you take some logic lessons and bring some substance to this blog. BTW, did you ever show proof of your 50 new quixtar diamonds or are you lying once again?"
Posted by joecool18 25 Dec 2006, 20:19
insider said "I did, but it's in the QBlog "moderator" queue. It proved YOU were a liar, since something like 70+ new Quixtar diamonds have been listed *by name* on the Quixtar Blog forums you frequent, and that was for just 3 years of Quixtar's 7 years of existence.
So you know it's true, but you claim it isn't, and then have the sheer arrogance to accuse ME of lying.
What a surprise."
Posted by insider 25 Dec 2006, 21:37
So unless someone deleted insider's post on this thread, he lied. He lied again unless someone deleted his queued post on here.
insider "JoeCool is actually Eric Janssen's secret lover. I have photos to prove it."
Joe says "what a pathetic and weak attempt to defend an argument. You should seek therapy or some kind of assistance. Seriously."
Insider,
I still don't see how complaints to the BBB proves anything. I honestly don't even know how to make a complaint to them. I've never checked with them about any business. I own a business and never once had anyone ask me about it. I have several friends with businesses as well. None of them use it.
What do people do in the 21st century? They post their complaints and experiences on blogs like these. To me that is more of an indication of whether or not there are problems with a business than letters to the BBB.
"Given 6 of the top 10 websites on google are anti-quixtar sites" proves there are a lot more problems with the Quixtar business than you will ever admit.
Kendall,
The "complaint" analysis includes "internet complaints". No matter how you look at it the simple fact is that, percentage wise, very very very very very few IBOs ever make a complaint. The fact they show up on google means very little - I recommend you read Amway/Quixtar Myths, Psycho-facts and the Internet Echo Chamber.
Personally I don't think there's much wrong with the Quixtar business system. I think there's plenty wrong with the way some people run it, and I've been very clear about that. I also think the Corp. has been taking intelligent steps to address those issues. But as they say on www.quixtarresponse.com - it's difficult for them to do much about anything when hardly anyone complains! I strongly encourage people, and so does the corp. on that website, to actually formally report problems and violations of the rules they encounter.
Poor old Quixtar is left with the lame old excuse that 99.9994% of IBOs don't find anything worth complaining about so maybe the critics, many of whom are indeed inexperienced, shouldn't be listened to quite as much as "google" would have you think.
Is that true? How come Quixtar (North America) have an image problem then? Amway North America had an image problem long before internet. Internet is just one way of "talking".
You count only those complaints the show up on BBB etc.?
Plus of course the what, hundred+ new diamonds and above in the last 6-7 years indicates there's plenty of people having no problem at all building the business.
North America please. And "new" means some one who was working 15 years and just got the pin?
I provided a list of many prominent Quixtar and Amway critics who have never been IBOs on my site.
Sigh. That video, write off all the complains as "many of those who were never an IBO". Didn't address
1) What about the complaints of those who were IBOs?
2) The complaints about non-IBOs are not true?
3) Didn't tell anything what Quixtar is doing, or even planning to do with those complaints? Just discredit the messenger. So you can publish a database of critics who were xyz. Quixtar has clearly told from this video that they rather discredit the person who complaints than fixing problems.
Hey insider, why are you removing Qblog's link at Quixtar Wiki and then adding yours?
I have never "removed Qblog link and then added mine" - at least not in the way you imply. When "critics" POV links were in the article, I added my site as well. When a later consesus was reached that no POV (point of view) sites should be there, as per wikipedia guidelines, I respected that consensus. When others added Qblog links in violation of this I removed them.
Or it may have been the other way around. In any case, current consensus is that no POV links should be there, which is reasonable enough.
Imran - my analysis included all correspondence to amquix as well. Quixtar has an "image" problem because, imo, some IBOs do the wrong thing, and that leads to people with legitimate complaints vocalising them on the internet. Due to the nature of the internet those complaints reflect a smaller portion of actual experiences than exists in reality. IMO the majority of *experienced* critics have legitimate complaints about their experience, PW and yourself would be some examples. From what you state (and we are only getting your side of the story), some of your upline were not operating in a professional way. My problem with folk like yourself and PW is that you tend to assume that your experience is the majority experience. Given the *enormous* number of people who have been IBOs, even very very large numbers of negative experiences would not necessarily reflect an endemic problem with the whole company and it's representatives. Doesn't mean there's not problems, it just means those issues are not necessarily reflective of the majority. Even if they *were* reflective of the majority it is unfair to brandish others who are not operating that way with the same issues.
The many *inexperienced" critics I listed on my site are on the other hand stating false or misleading information based on a position of ignorance of the reality of the business model, or in the case of some participants on this forum, simply jumping on the bandwagon for unknown motivations.
Regarding the particular video promoted here - it is one segment of one video from the quixtarfacts site. Other segments clearly state that there will be legitimate complaints and asks for people with issue to formally complain. At no point does anyone "write of all the complaints" - that's is a false assertion on your part.
insider "Quixtar has an "image" problem because, imo, some IBOs do the wrong thing"
Joe "No, because many have lied, did unethical things, etc. There are countless stories of people getting tricked into attending meetings, lies being told. Just keep those blinders on insider"
Comment from thw wikipedia moderator:
"" Remember I know you Insider and your shady history."
Independent patriot 06:46, 13 November 2006 (UTC) "
Another comment from the wikipedia moderator:
"History eh? Yeah let's look at history, such as your contribs history which shows you deleting several critical sites while adding your own biased POV site. Any comments on that Insider? Didn't think so"
Joecool, go and learn what a "wikipedia moderator" is - cause those quotes aren't from one.
As for your comments about IBOs doing the wrong thing, yours and my comments are not mutually exclusive.
But finally, an interesting relevation. "Truth" and "Janet", both critics, have revealed over on the Truth About Quixtar Forums that they're posts are also getting queued for moderation. In otherwords, it's pretty much happenning to everyone. Which means it's likely happening to you to JoeCool. Yet when I mentioned it, you flat out called me a liar both here and on your own site.
What amazing integrity you have.
insider, maybe you just lied. Are you saying that post from December 25th still hasn't been posted?
Hmm......
insider says "hmmm ... just on an interesting discussion on Wikipedia. Guess what the yearly prevalance of complaints is for Quixtar in North America, including all complaints registered at the BBB and all people who "complain" to Amquix, including foreigners? 0.0006%
Compare that with the percentage of people who qualify Diamond each year - .012% and who qualify Q-12 platinum - .1683%
That means that in the warped world of some Quixtar critics, where everything is "chance" - your "chances" of going diamond are 20 times higher than your "chances" of complaining, and your "chances" of going Q-12 platinum are nearly 300 times higher!"
Joe says "I wonder hopw many people file formal compaints to the government when taxes gets raised? Hmmm, not many so I guess people enjoy tax hikes.
Take a logic class insider.
Another insider lie on Wikipedia
insider said "Part of the site is a blog and is clearly labeled as such. Other parts, particularly the "Facts" section are fully sourced with third party sources provided. As discussed, the other sources for this section are blogs or the equivalent as well too. Own links are "allowable" if you are considered an "expert" in the area and even the critics on the most popular quixtar forum, webraw.com/forum have granted me that status"
insider is Dexter's B*&ch. If anyone says otherwise, there is truth to that statement.
Insider,
You said "...even Amquix publishes more letters in support of Quixtar than against it..."
How did you arrive at this conclusion? Is there an analysis of Amquix's feedback somewhere? Just wondering... Thanks
Please Insider,
When it comes to Wikipedia you have spent your time deleting sites you don't like citing WP:RS. Then adding your own site in everyway you can think of.
First you tried to add a straight out link, then got deleted. When you couldn't win that battle you tried to link a stupid promo video from your site, then you got whacked on that as well. Finally you tried to add a letter to get a link to your site and got schooled on that as well.
Now an admin has even called you on the addition of your site, something that is against Wikipedia rules that you were using to delete critical sites:
"Speaking of "www.thetruthaboutquixtar.com", I just noticed, from your user page, that it is your own website. It's linked to from eight pages including this one. But I don't see how it counts as a reliable source. Rather it appears to be a blog, no more reliable than Webraw. Addition of it by the creator is against WP:EL#Advertising and conflicts of interest. Please clarify. -Will Beback · † · 08:24, 26 December 2006 (UTC)"
I mean if you are going to be a hypocrite don't make it worse and lie about it. I know why you want your site there, the traffic it generates is great, not to mention helps with the SEO of a site. I know because mine was there for a while. One big difference however is that I never had to add my site to get it on Wikipedia.
If you're talking about what I think you are the link was to an Amway PDF file, not the site itself. To the best of my knowledge with no outgoing links that does not help SEO at all. Most of the links he was talking about were on talk pages when discussing an issue. WIki Talk pages are not indexed and therefore do not aid SEO at all either.
TD- in the forums on my website
Ahhh... go away for a while but nothing changes.
"Insider" - NEVER AN IBO - but keeps commenting with his lies.
You "millionaires-in-training" remember that he can't follow his own logic when you use his, errr, "facts" to pester that guy you met in Best Buy.
Cheers + Happy New Year
No it was a letter between the FTC and the DSA. It was a PDF and it resided on your site. Hence the www.truthaboutquixtar.com which was in the web address.
I know you want to play dumb since your dirty laundry is being aired, but if anyone goes and reads the talk and looks at the history they can see for themselves your hypocritical behavior.
Also what I found interesting was when you were getting schooled about adding your own links to the Wikipedia out of nowhere this "Lord Tedric" showed up adding links for you and trying to defend the content. Also to this day those are his only contribs to the Wikipedia.
Also recently it looks like an admin has had to school you for deleting entire sections simply because you didn't like one source. I guess you must have mistaken Wikipedia to be something that has to agree with your spin in order for it to be true. LOL!! Sadly, this is typical of you.
Then if we continue on we see an admin schooling you about the difference between WP:RS and WP:EL which you still don't seem to have learned the difference from.
The one that takes the cake though is when you label your site as a valid response to the critics site even though you have been debunked twice on my site and I have not even started yet. Heck, I am still laughing at the article where you used the "My upline told me" source for your numbers. ROFLMBO!! Yeah, good response indeed.
Like I said if you want to be a hypocrite just admit it instead of lying about it. I have so much fun exposing you and you wouldn't want that would you?
WP:EL was not my judgement, an admin has decided no POV links. I'm fine with that. You go argue with him. As for me "deleting entire sections" I've no idea what you're talking about. I think the Quixtar article as it stands now is pretty reasonable. So if I deleted anything it remains there. The FTC letter is another issue altogether and since the POV claims it was proving wrong are no longer in the article, it is not necessary to link to it. As it stands if the issue arises again the consensus is it should be loaded up to Wiki:Source and linked there, which is also just fine by me.
Debunked twice on your site? ROFLMAO!!! Talk about living in fantasy land.
Oh Insider of course you have no idea what I am talking about, since you don't want to admit to it. But anyone can go to the Talk section of Quixtar page and see where and admin told you to not delete entire sections because you don't like one source. Like I said I guess you like to play dumb when your dirty laundry gets aired for all to see.
Also, I like the part where you claim this site and forum has dubbed you an expert in Quixtar. The only thing it appears you are an expert in is misleading information, lies, and deception. But should we expect anything less from an IBO?
BTW, debunking your articles are easy when your upline is your source. LOL!!
Yeah, I posted insider's lie. He stated that the critics on Qblog named him and "expert". Insider, got proof of that or will you just ignore my post? What critic called you an expert? The critics here only call you a liar.
JC,
Do you have something to prove to someone??? You know, with all the typed words you've put on this blog, you sure don't have much to say.
You remind me of a little yapping chihuahua who just jumps up & down &just yaps & yaps & yaps & yaps & yaps but who's really afraid of his own shadow.
PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE go do something more PRODUCTIVE with your time....like watching one of your favorite shows....the Simpsons! That says it all JC....
Is this what this blog has come down to?
Isn't this just a tad on the pathetic side? Seriously. I thought you guys were adults here. Act like it.
Yes anon, I have something to prove.
insider, the self proclaimed success story and expert on amway/quixtar lied, and I posted the proof.
Why don't you go stalk someone at a quixtar partner store?
Dissapointing spin by Quixtar. Don't like the message, try shooting the messenger. Yes I've never been an IBO, but several of my good friends have...and all have failed to become a diamond, let alone platinum, even after 6 1/2 years. Some quit quickly, some are still chasing the dream. And in the wake of Quixtar? Lots of wasted hours, babysitting fees, a failed marriage, vacations lost, and still unused products sitting in garages.
Does one need experience to become an expert? It helps, but I've always said it's never a requirement. Ken Burns was neither a Civil War soldier, nor a professional baseball player, but can someone tell me he's not an expert on both? In addition, experience doesn't neccessarily make one an expert, as there are plenty of ex-players in professional sports who make awful coaches and head office people (see Isaiah Thomas).
As for complaining, I think Insider's numbers are way off. First off, there are currently 20 complaints registered with the BBB about Quixtar (http://www.grandrapids.bbb.org/commonreport.html?bid=11002927http://www.grandrapids.bbb.org/commonreport.html?bid=11002927) In the past, I've seen the number as high as 30, but either way, it's about 1 every 6 weeks to 2 months, much higher than 1 a year. Insider also counts complaints on the AmQuix site, but fails to count complainers on this site, other blogs, and sites like MLMSurvivor, which has over 2,000 registered users on their Yahoo board. True, not all are Amway/Quixtar, but a good number of them are. Next, you also must account for the rule of 10, which states that for every 1 person who complains, there are probably at least 9 others with the same complain, who, for whatever reason, don't take any action (passive-aggressive types). The rule of 10 is standard in marketing when it comes to complaining.
When you add it up, the number of complainers still is small compared to the number of IBO's, but it's a much larger number the Insider will probably be willing to admit. If 1,500 of the MLMSurivor posters are AmQuix, they represent 15,000. Another several hundred on Amquix that aren't MLMS duplicates account for several more thousand, plus those who post here, and elsewhere, and I would be willing to bet the number of complainers far outweigh the number of big pins in AmQuix.
Of course, then there are my friends who quit, who will never complain. They are convinced, even with all the evidence presented, that the problem was not Quixtar, their system, or their upline, but it was they themselves who failed. Even after showing them this site, MLMS, and AmQuix, they still believe in the system, and that the failure was personal. Wonder how many of the 67% of people who quit in any given year feel the same way?
Given the huge number of MLMs I really doubt that 2/3 of MLMsurvivor or Amway, and I'm aware of "pro" people having registered there too. On this board there have been very few actual posters. You also have many people who overlap the areas.
So Amquix has less than a 100/yr. MLMSurvivor maybe 100/yr. For the heck of it let say Webraw also has 100/yr. So that's 300/yr assuming no overlaps. Rule of 10 - 3000 "complaints". IBOs - 900,000. 99.7% of IBOs have no major concerns.
For the heck of it, let's say it's 1000/yr instead. Your rule of 10 - 10000/complainers. 99% of IBOs in any year have no major concerns.
Now, that's still an awful lot of people, and obviously would indicate some issues need addressing. But it still mean by a long long long long way the majority of people have no real issues.
It's a matter of perspective.
The BBB 1 complaint per year is about IBOs - complaints about missing packages or whatever aren't really what anyone on forums like this is talking about, which is what the other complaints were about.
You know what's also amazing? These are just the few pins who actually came forward after being outed or quitting. Like other IBOs, I would guess that many former pins have quit without ever filing a FORMAL COMPLAINT with the corporation and simply faded into the backgroud as time went on.
I have heard that of all the people who listen to talk radio, only 8-9% (possibly as low as 3%) of them ever call.
Does that mean that the other 91-97% do not have a valid opinion? Does that mean that they agree, by default, with the show's host if they do not call to contradict him?
If you feel you were scammed by A/Q, are your complaints invalidated by inaction? If you do not hire a lawyer and file a lawsuit or register a complaint with the FTC or the BBB, does that mean you should have no voice or that the scam was just your imagination?
PW
Here's a question, Insider. Is N21 and other AMO businesses part of the BBB? If so, how can one complain about these business to the BBB?
My point is, if Quixtar and the AMO are two different businesses, if an IBO has a complaint about how the AMO runs, would he lodge a complaint to the BBB about Quixtar, or the AMO?
For the record, I looked up Network 21 on the BBB site and didn't find too much useful information.
Hey insider....
The figure for people working the real world system achieving a 6 figure income is around 1%, isnt that better than the odds you list below?
hmmm ... just on an interesting discussion on Wikipedia. Guess what the yearly prevalance of complaints is for Quixtar in North America, including all complaints registered at the BBB and all people who "complain" to Amquix, including foreigners? 0.0006%
Compare that with the percentage of people who qualify Diamond each year - .012% and who qualify Q-12 platinum - .1683%
That means that in the warped world of some Quixtar critics, where everything is "chance" - your "chances" of going diamond are 20 times higher than your "chances" of complaining, and your "chances" of going Q-12 platinum are nearly 300 times higher!
What a deal! :-)
Posted by: insider | December 26, 2006 1:04 PM
I think people are better off tradtional verses Quixtar......
So it is possible to make it to Diamond. 12 out of 1,000. that's 1 out of about 80 people. I know I'm in that 12.
I was going to quit the company, and post a bunch of negative like everyone else who can't do it, but if the odds are that good, cool. They told me 1 out of 95 percent of people don't achieve their dream. People are the variable. if over 1% make it, why should I be inferior to them.
I know everyone can't be rich, no program can promise that.
If that's a bad thing, bash the lottery, and becoming a professional athlete, actor, politician. Say becoming a Navy Seal is a rip-off. Everything inredible has difficult odds.
By the way, how much do you make for all the time you spend hating.
Remember those Diamonds all started at 0PV and got the same plan showing, the same journey, spent the same amount of money as all the others who didn't make it. It wasn't the company it was the people.
Besides the majority of business' operate at a loss for two years, before they go under or break-even.
Thank-you for the reassurance in this company, I almost gave up on one of the last opportunities for a low-income individual to become rich left in America besides the lottery, and gambling. My credit and savings certainly aren't large enough for any other way.
Rob, look at the numbers again. I think you are confused. The chance of going diamond is .012%, or .00012 go diamond for every 100 participants. That doesn't translate to 1 in 80, but more like 1 in 14,000. Big difference.
Rob, where did you get the idea that people who don't think quixtar is a good opportunity spend their time
"hating"?
Dean Van Druff - never an IBO
Robert Fitzpatrick - never an IBO
David Touretzky - never an IBO
Steve Hassan - never an IBO
Rick Ross - never an IBO
Robert Todd Carroll - never an IBO
Tim Williams - never an IBO
Peter Bowditch - never an IBO
Wow! That's some good company I'm in.
Note to self: Buy QBlog a late Xmas present - a dictionary, highlighting the different definitions of the words "most" and "all".
Posted by: insider | December 26, 2006 1:16 AM