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November 21, 2006
Being CORE
By Truth in A/QMOs
Being involved in a motivational organization of Quixtar the chances are good one will hear about "Being CORE". When I was in BWW this simply meant doing the 9 CORE steps each and every month without fail. Now first of all this actually makes sense (I know bear with me) on some levels. I think in any business there are going to be CORE duties that one will have to do on a regular basis to be successful. The problem I have with the current 9 steps is that I am not sure if they are all about helping someone to have a successful business or if they are a bu$ine$$ in themselves.
For instance 5 of the 9 steps involve the IBO spending money to complete those steps with the money from 4 of those steps going directly into upline's pockets. When one adds up the cost of being core against the average income of an IBO you can see things get expensive pretty quick.
However, I think I have come up with a way to find out what CORE is really all about. Two steps in the CORE plan talk about listening to a tape a day and reading for at least 15 minutes a day. Many IBOs can relate these steps to Standing Order Tape (SOT) or Book Of the Month (BOM). My question however would be do you really need to be on SOT and BOM to be CORE? The steps simply say to listen to a tape a day and read for 15 minutes a day. So what if I am buying my own books from my partner store Barnes & Noble (because one of the CORE steps is all about product loyalty) that I feel will help me and am reading at least 15 minutes a day? Does that still make me a CORE IBO, or do I need to be buying and reading the BOM to be CORE? How about tapes? What if I decide Zig Ziglar, or Tony Robbins is more my style and decide to listen to those tapes everyday instead of the SOT? Am I still a CORE IBO, or do I need to be buying and listening only to the SOT to be CORE?
If you are an Eagle in the business and you decide to drop SOT and BOM and get your tapes and books from another source, you would still be doing the steps, but do you think you will get approved for your reserved seat at the next function? Personally, I wouldn't bet on it. If the true motivation of the 9 CORE steps (by the way recently updated from 8 CORE steps when Communikate came along, yet another tool upline makes money off of somehow became vital to downline business) is to help build a big business then I don't think it should matter where you get your tapes and books from. But I would suppose if the 9 CORE steps is a good way to get downline excited about stuffing money in their upline's pocket.....well then I think the program has achieved great success.
Comments
Core means paying for your own brainwashing materials, but ONLY brainwashing materials supplied by your upline.
Tape says go to Seminar
Seminar says go to Conference
Conference says go to the Tape
THAT is the real 'Circle' that is drawn.
"Traditional" Sales and training legend Brian Tracy says he doesn't know of a single top salesperson that doesn't read every day and listen to a tape/cd everyday. "Core" in Amway/Quixtar world has developed from standard sales success. It doesn't mean listening to a tape of Paris Hilton and reading a Manga book everyday. If you are choosing to be "core" with tools supplied outside your system, how does your upline know whether it's actually relevant or of any quality?
Having said that, if all you do is read only books and listen to only tapes/CDs from our system on a daily basis, then you'll quickly run out of options - at least if you read aas quickly as I do! In my view true leaders, true owners of their own business, not only can, but must listen and read materials from outside the system. Today I've been reading a book "Success Intelligence" by Robert Holden and listening to a CD "psychology of winning" by Denis Waitley. Neither from N21, but both are part of me being core.
Having said that, if you exclusively source from outside the system you'd have to be an idiot. The books and CDS are way cheaper from N21 then from other sources. Even when it's exactly the same material.
Does "traditional sales legend" Brian Tracy sell books and CDs? I wouldn't be surprised if he did. Maybe that's why he said that - to make people think buying books and CDs (which would include what he sells) is necessary for success.
What proof is there of his statement? Maybe he doesn't know that many successful sales people. :-)
And even if it is true (which we don't know), why can't INDEPENDENT business owners make their own choices about what they want to listen to or read? Sure, they can take suggestions from their upline, but why are the CORE requirements restricted only to system products? Or why can't BWW make use of N21 or INA tools? (I know they use WWDB sometimes, but Britt and Puryear are apparently friends.)
Do those successful salespeople Brian Tracy talks about listen only to tapes and read only books provided by their bosses? Do they have a tape and book schedule they are told they MUST follow to be successful?
CORE is designed to provide a constant source of income for the big pins.
Rather than being recognized for being CORE, IBOs should be recognized only for achieving what CORE purports to be designed to produce: profitable IBOs growing in pin level. Kinda like in college, you don't graduate summa cum laude if you really tried and studied every night - only if your GPA is high enough. The recognition for CORE just keeps people hopeful for something that might never happen and helps to keep them in.
Just my opinion, but I'm probably right. ;)
You are so stupid
I've often been confused when my in-laws overlook some really great websites that have many quality books at dirt cheap prices or don't even try to get some of their tools through ebay. All I was trying to do was help them get closer to making a profit.
They told me that the choose to support their upline because their upline has helped them so much.
*sigh*
It's a losing battle.
Rara,
Forget P.O.'s comment. What you siad is right on the mark.
IM,
P.O. wrote something?
Oh... that. (Nyuk nyuk nyuk).
Don't worry, I'm not very sensitive. :D
Insider, your double talk is really special, in an Olympic kind of way. Just read yourself for a minute.
"If you are choosing to be "core" with tools supplied outside your system, how does your upline know whether it's actually relevant or of any quality?"
Followed by:
"In my view true leaders, true owners of their own business, not only can, but must listen and read materials from outside the system."
So which is it?
And at what point does one decide what's best for their business?
Your upline must love you
Baaaaaaaa Bbbaaaaaaaa
As usual Insider can't seem to get a grasp on what is a very simple question. So since he apparently needs his hand held through yet another lesson, let me make this more clear.
The point of this article is talking about SOT and BOM. Two programs that required a commitment to buy a tape a week and book a month.
Now my question is simple. The steps say just to listen to a tape a day and read everyday. So what if you purchased your books and tapes on your own but still listened and read everyday, (and yes I am talking about business tapes and books since Insider apparently cannot grasp that fact)?
So what if you decide to not be on those programs so you can buy some tapes from N21, then some from WWDB, and even some tapes from outside like Zig Ziglar? What if you buy your own books from Barnes and Noble partner store so you get your PV?
Are you still CORE since you are doing the steps? Or do you have to be on the program to be CORE? Simple really if you are recognized as CORE while not on those programs then being CORE is about helping you. If you are not recognized as CORE because you are not on SOT and BOM, then it is clearly about money.
So tell me which is it?
Drew,
The purpose of being core is not to be core. It's simply a description of what is considered necessary to succeed. If you are doing those things with non-system materials of equal, or for that matter, better quality, then yes you are core and thus it should help you succeed.
Your confusing being core with being recognized as core. The recognition is there because it helps motivate people to be core. Without an upline reading and listening to the same stuff you are, the upline cannot know if it is relevant, quality material or not, so they quite obviously cannot recognize you as core.
So yes, you would be core, but at the same time you quite obviously could not achieve recognition as being core, since nobody would know what it was. If you listen to paris hilton and read manga comics and claim that to be core, and I just accept your word for it that you are core, and 5 years later you're still a 3%er you could claim "you said if I was core for 5 years I'd be a diamond!"
Core is about doing what's necessary to build a business. The steps in core are virtually the same as is suggested for success in virtually ANY environment. Do the work. Learn what to do. Work as a team. That's it.
As for the attempts to discredit Brian Tracy, go do your own research and see who hires him, who reads his books and listens to his tapes, and what they say. It's pathetic the way some folk try to belittle ANYONE that says anything that happens to agree with the way A/Q works.
Rara -
1. IBOs are absolutely free to chose what the listen to and read. What on earth makes you think they aren't?
2. IBOs are recognized for what core aims to create - growing businesses. They receive Amway pins and recognition for growing in volume, and in Network TwentyOne we have other recognitions for developing the right structure, so that there's profitability as well as just volume.
The data shows that being core leads to increasing volume. That's why it's encouraged.
There's a fundamental absurdity in the whole claim about Core being about selling tools and not about building a network. Let's assume it's true - how exactly does the upline get more people to buy tools?
Drew,
This really is a silly and pointless question.
Are you still CORE since you are doing the steps?
Answer: YES, of course you are.
It doesn't matter if you buy ebooks or download MP3's for all I care, as long as you are personally benefitting from the personal developement aspect of the business. Otherwise if you aren't benefitting from it, you are just throwing your money away foolishly.
Also, it's not about buying the books to make a profit for the author either. I think it's okay for the author to make a profit as long as it's providing real world solutions, or answers to a particular problem.
Drew, just an FYI, WWDB has added the "premier membership" as the 10th core step this year.
Just my 2 cents.
BOs are absolutely free to chose what the listen to and read. What on earth makes you think they aren't?
Uh...because uplines flip over if they find you reading some sales / motivational non system book or seminars. System is the answer of every thing. Don't you know?
Baaaaaaaa Bbbaaaaaaaa
Now I love you.
Insider,
Again, you are deliberately missing the point. Of course IBOs can listen to or read whatever they read. (This is America, remember.) The question is, if they read and listen to stuff other than what is on the upline's list, will they still be considered CORE? I thought Drew had already explained that a second time.
And I didn't belittle Brian Tracy. I don't know he is and didn't bother to check, because, frankly, I don't care. I even allowed for the fact that he may be right. Maybe you might want to read my post again.
By the way, I just googled Brian Tracy. He cells books, CDs, and DVDs, so the first thing I said about him may not be so inconceivable. I'm sure he's great and all, but he also wants to make money.
Forgive my skepticism. I was once a BWW IBO.
Oh, and the first two pages of search results had nothing negative about such a hugely important and famous motivational speaker. Unfortunately, I can't say the same about the Quixtar motivational leaders I googled. I'm just sayin'.
Oh, and I'm sure Brian Tracy doesn't make anyone buy his products in order for them to considered anything like "CORE." I'm sure he doesn't say buying and using his products is the ONLY way to achieve success either.
All the evidence points to the truth that the kingpins make the vast majority of thier income from taking the money of their downline. There can be no doubt that their major income is from tools & functions. I have offered to show this truth to Insider, but he failed to respond to my offer. So I'll make my offer again.
Insider, I can show you the evidence that the kingpins make the vast majority of their income from tools and functions. I have a great cd that explains this(it will only cost you $7). Ofcourse you will have to order several more to get the complete picture. Also, I have a book that reveals some more evidence with a new one coming out each month. Each will only cost you $14.95. I will also be hosting a family reunion that you can attend for $125 (a great deal for you as we will consider you family). There you can learn a great deal of the evidence. And most important there will be a three day event (only $175) where you will learn even more. For $21.95 a month, we can put you on our communicate voice mail system where you can hear updated evidence as it comes in. So there you have it. I can provide the evidence. All I ask you to do is trust me since I am someone who wants to mentor you in this area. Let me know.
Michael,
I know you will come here and say that, and every other IBO will want to say the same. But what about Eagle? Let's say you have all the structure etc except you are not on SOT and BOM but you are still doing the steps do you get recognized with your reserved seat at the function?
I say no you won't. Why you ask? Everytime I heard about Eagle and the 9 CORE steps reading and listening was directly related to SOT and BOM. Basically you had to be on those programs to be considered as someone doing those steps.
Are you really going to try and tell everyone that the majority of motivational organizations do not see those steps as buying tapes and books and not just doing the steps?
Doesn't surprise me about another step. Does that membership put money in upline pocketbooks? No wonder they make it a step that supposedly helps grow your business.
One question on that note though, who has gone Diamond being on the premier membership? If the CORE steps are proven steps to helping you build a business is the step really proven before it gets added?
Insider,
You are avoiding straight answers.
1) Nobody suggested that reading Manga comics and listening to Paris Hilton should be considered as being core. So let's not bring them up again.
2) Have you already exhausted all the books/tapes that your systems recommends for being core? You certainly imply that, but it is still not very clear. If you have, then you have no way of being 'recognised as' being core any further ('cos your system is not churning out material fast enough for you). How can such a person (other than by slowing down) ensure that he/she is core and perceived as being core by upline?
3) Who in your system makes the call that Robert Kiyosaki's book for example helps the IBOs succeed (and hence his book ensures recognition as core) and Robert Holden's doesn't? Can downlines recommend books to uplines?
4) Nobody belittled Brian Tracy. It would be good if you can give the exact quote from him with reference. But the fact remains that any self help Guru out there would be very aware of the impact AMOs could have on his/her book (by making it the BOM or its equivalent). So I wouldn't be surprised when they agree with AMOs. I don't know the credentials of Brian Tracy, especially whether he achieved anything in life prior to writing self-help books.
Your confusing being core with being recognized as core. The recognition is there because it helps motivate people to be core. Without an upline reading and listening to the same stuff you are, the upline cannot know if it is relevant, quality material or not, so they quite obviously cannot recognize you as core.
First of all this whole time I have been talking about being recognized as CORE, not just doing CORE. I established that CORE was being done the whole time and brought into question the recognition.
Second your answer is ridiculous at best. You are saying since I am buying the tools from my upline and they are the same then they know the content so they can agree that it is appropriate.
So how about this then. IBO A buys tools from upline but only listens to the tape once so he knows what is on it and doesn't listen again until the next one shows up, and only reads a couple of times a week. IBO B doesn't get on SOT or BOM but instead gets his business books from B&N partner store to stay loyal to his business and gets his tapes from various organizations and outside sources to get various perspectives and teachings. But he listens and reads every single day.
Under your logic IBO A can fake it and get recognized as CORE since his upline has the same tools, but IBO B is SOL since his upline doesn't have the same tools as he does. Simply proving that the whole recognition of Eagle and CORE is a marketing ploy to get IBOs on tools and not really about helping anyone.
Thanks for helping me show that to all the visitors.
There's a fundamental absurdity in the whole claim about Core being about selling tools and not about building a network. Let's assume it's true - how exactly does the upline get more people to buy tools?
Gee what a toughy. Let's see I guess first you would come up with some steps making sure to add in all the things that put money in your pocket. Sprinkle in some extras to make it not so obvious then preach nothing but the 9 CORE steps and tell IBOs how just these 9 steps will get them where they want to be.
Tell them about all the recognition and special privleges that go with it when you get a good solid structure, and then give that a fancy name like "Eagle" and "Double Eagle", or "Super Awesome Eagle Grand Master Dragon Wizard" (sorry couldn't help myself).
Then get on stage and tell stories about how when you were a young IBO you weren't doing one of the steps and then all of the sudden when you decided to finally get on tapes and listen, or you decided to get BOM and read your business exploded (stories I have actually heard from stage) and you were Diamond in no time. Tell IBOs other stories about quitters and whiners, and losers who never bought tapes and books and how they are broke and standing in soup lines begging you for money now that you are rich.
Sounds kinda familiar.....Oh yeah that's the way it currently works in the motivational organizations.
Gee after answering that tough question I think I might need to go lie down now. *sarcasm off*
Drew,
If core is about selling tools, and not building a network, then where do the new customers for the tools come from?
But here's the key Drew - Who cares about getting recognized as core? You seem to think the reason for being core is to get recognized as core. Get rid of the recongition of core and it makes no difference to whether it works or not. Fake being core, doesn't work. Be core with quality materials sourced "outside the system" - still works. Recognition of being core is not the goal.
balaji,
I'm not trying to avoid "straight answers". It's just not a simple thing to explain. But yes, I have absolutely recommended books upline, and I take recommednations of books from anyone who will give it to me. Every time so far I've recommended a book upline I've found it's already been on the book program. N21 doesn't keep an everlasting catalogue of everything ever offerred. Serious IBOs are expected to source other materials.
rara,
I listen and read to stuff not available from N21 all the time, and N21 leaders recommend IBOs do this. Makes no difference to whether I'm core or not.
Let's try to be clear. Core is about doing what's necessary to build a business. If you are doing those steps from "outside" of the system, then you are still "core" but quite obviously it cannot be judged by someone else for the purpose of recognizing it. Doesn't matter if you are recognized or not there. It's about doing it.
Maybe this example will be enlightening.
If I have a new IBO in my organization who cannot afford to buy the tapes or books, but they borrow them off me and listen to and read them and do the other "core" steps - then they will absolutely still be recognized by me as core and encouraged to stand up or cross the stage or whatever as such if that kind of recognition is being done.
Whats more, if you want to read manga comics and listen to crappy CDs and claim you are core, well fine, claim you are core, walk across stage as core, whatever. But don't complain if your business doesn't grow. Your problem, not mine.
Drew,
I understand where your coming from, but how do they keep track whether or not you are 100% core?
You don't get recognised for being "core". That's why you're making a big deal about nothing. If you were talking about Eagle qualifications, that's totally different.
Being "core" and being "eagle" is completely separate.
So again, your question is:
1)My question however would be do you really need to be on SOT and BOM to be CORE?
My answer is NO, of course not.
2)If you are an Eagle in the business and you decide to drop SOT and BOM and get your tapes and books from another source, you would still be doing the steps, but do you think you will get approved for your reserved seat at the next function?
No. If you are going for the Eagle qualifications then you should be following what your upline Diamond suggests.
What are the Eagle qualifications?
Follow that if you want to be recognised as an Eagle. Plain and simple.
You've pretty much answered your own question when you really think about it, Drew.
insider,
Drew is not talking about an IBO being recognized by you as being core. He's talking about being recognized by the motivational org.
For you IBOs out there, maybe you can ask your uplines whether your system would recognize you as core if you are not on standing order and book of the month. In BWW, if you weren't on these two programs, you were not considered to be serious about building the business, much less being core. And I seriously doubt many uplines would lend downline IBOs tapes for free indefinitely. Hence, you will have to buy your own eventually.
If you don't want to acknowledge that most of the core steps are a profit center for your upline, that's fine. It's your money, not mine.
Being "core" and being "eagle" is completely separate.
WRONG! Try again! Where are the 9 CORE steps listed? Oh yeah in the Eagle Pamphlet. If they are completely seperate why are they listed in that pamphlet. They are listed as the steps for doing Eagle, Double Eagle, and Ultimate Eagle work with the number of plans being the only difference.
In that Eagle brochure those steps say you need to read and listen everyday and the only mention of SOT and BOM is when it comes to how many legs need to be on those programs. No mention of the actual Eagle needing to be on them. So again I ask if they are seperate why are the 9 core steps listed?
You know as well as I do that it is implied that being recognized as CORE you are on the SOT and BOM program. For some reason now you are trying to seperate the two. You can try to dance around this all day Michael, it's not going to work.
If core is about selling tools, and not building a network, then where do the new customers for the tools come from?
Do you know the 9 CORE steps? Or do you just have a case of "ask stupid questionidis"? Step 1 deals with what Insider? There you go, that's right showing the plan. Let's see if you are CORE and showing the plan 3 times a week that means more customers to buy books, tapes, function tickets, and Communikate. Pretty good little racket isn't it.
But here's the key Drew - Who cares about getting recognized as core?
and the questions just continue. In my experience in BWW just about everyone cared about getting recognized as being CORE. Being recognized as CORE by their upline was reassurance that they felt they were doing what it took to be rich and in the end all they were doing was what it took to make their upline rich.
But let me guess you are going to claim you have never seen such an act and therefore it just couldn't exist even though there are several hundred testimonies on the net that disagree with you?
Get off the comic book kick because you know as well as the rest of us that it was never implied that IBOs who were getting books for themselves were reading anything but business related books. Pretty sad Insider that you just have to make crap up cause you know you can't defend it.
rara, in our organization, the person who determines whether someone is core or not is that person. If the MC says "ok, everyone who is core, come up on stage", the individual IBO is the person who decides whether they are core or not. Same for any recognitions which have being "core" as a requirement. While upline leaders do get spreadsheets with info on who is subscribed to what, nobody is spending their time checking all of this. If an IBO wants to say they are core and their not on the N21 tape or book program, nobody is likely to even notice.
Drew - so what you are saying is that in order for an upline to grow their "tools business" the downline would need to do what? Grow their A/Q network? :-O!!!
But that would mean an upline actually wants their downline to grow the A/Q network! Say it ain't so Drew - you mean you're actually admitting it is in an upline's interest to give the best possible advice to help a downline grow their A/Q business?
Insider,
Of course it is in there best interests to help them grow a big group of people. More people to buy tapes, books, function tickets and Kate subscriptions.
But what you apparently can't get your mind around is that there is a HUGE difference between helping someone grow a big group and helping someone grow a profitable business.
How is there a HUGE difference between building a big group and building a profitable business? Even if the goal was to sell tools, wouldn't it be in an uplines best interest to have someone build a large AND profitable Amway business? Wouldn't a profitable IBO be more likely to continue building it, thus generating more tool sales?
I think your idea makes sense. Why not take it a step further and buy the books and tapes used from ebay and save a ton of money. If tapes and books are items that are required to be core why not save a buck or two. So maybe the tapes/cds you will get, might not be the most up to date but they should be recent enough. Also to get the latest information all the IBO needs to do is go to the latest function and make their own recording of it. If the IBO has downline in different regional areas then they could make copies of the functions they went to and share them. Or to be more profitable they could make their own copies of the functions they atteneded and sell them to thier downline for $3 a cd.
Wow! I am fired up! How about you? :>
Drew,
What am I "dancing" around? I've answered your questions directly.
Yes they are two completely separate qualifications. Core is separate from eagle. Eagle Qualifications is a completely different step.
Drew, I ask again,
What are the eagle qualifications to qualify to be in the eagle section at the function? What are the requirements for being CORE?
I really don't know what you're getting so upset over. It doesn't make sense. It's a really SIMPLE and CORRECT response.
I think Viktor's on to something. I still don't understand why the material on tapes couldn't ALL be made downloadable for MP3 players, and a list of reading material simply be made available for IBOs. IBOs could get their books where ever they feel they get the best price, whether that be through B&N, ebay, or where ever.
After all, isn't this business all about helping the little guy rise above and be successful? At least give 'em a break and let them use some common sense about how to purchases the tools.
Ending the tools controversy could be done so easily, but there is too much money to be made to try to end it.
Michael,
Why don't you simply list the steps necessary for being Eagle and the steps needed to be recognized as CORE. That way some of use who aren't as familiar with LOSes other than BWW can be set straight. Then we, too, will be able to see the vast differences between them. Thanks.
inquiringmind,
1. Network TwentyOne in the US has downloadable MP3s. However, most people still do not have MP3 players (a pew internet survey last year reported 11% of Americans had one), and many still struggle with using them. What's more you can't lend an MP3 to someone who doesn't have an MP3 player, lending a CD is far easier. Yes, you could burn, but then you have an unprofessional looking CD, and the requirement of IBOs needing a CD burner and knowing how to use it. MP3s time as the #1 option is coming, but it's a few years away yet.
2. Network TwentyOne has exactly what you suggest - a list of recommended books available. You can buy them wherever you want, but every time I've ever checked the price was better from N21.
Did any pro-system person address why Communikate suddenly became one of the core steps when Amvox wasn't?
Voicemail is not part of core in N21, but having worked in markets where it's not available I think it probably should be! Makes an enormous difference.
Insider ""Traditional" Sales and training legend Brian Tracy says he doesn't know of a single top salesperson that doesn't read every day and listen to a tape/cd everyday. "Core" in Amway/Quixtar world has developed from standard sales success. It doesn't mean listening to a tape of Paris Hilton and reading a Manga book everyday. If you are choosing to be "core" with tools supplied outside your system, how does your upline know whether it's actually relevant or of any quality?"
Joe> Home come IBOs aren't taught to sell products? Seems like CORE is more like an assurance of upline profits and has little to do with an IBOs success. If not, upline would have parameters of when someone should
consider getting involved and to what extent. Not to mention so few IBOs are successful so the validity of these tools are also questionable.
Rara, KATE is probably a CORE step
because I think Brad said his diamond made $20K per month off KATE whereas Amway got the profit for Amvox. Does that explain it? It certainly goes in line with CORE steps being used as profit centers for upline.
I agree that it can be quite useful. But when Amvox, no IBO profited from, was the voicemail service in use, it wasn't a core step. So why is Communikate, which bigger pins profit from, now a core step? If I'm not mistaken, I think you got PV/BV from Amvox, but not from Communikate. Seems fishy, doesn't it?
insider,
It seems that N21 is more modern than I realized. In order to simply share info with a prospect, sure have some CD's available to give out, but with the volumes of CDs/tapes that IBOs are buying (just check Ebay)information to download would be an easy way to go if trying to help the IBO get closer to his or her profit. You could even have a small snippet telling what is special about each speaker, what angle they take, whatever. You could even, if you felt you had to, charge a nominal fee.
This could also open doors for people other than Quixtar to take advantage of motivational speakers. If you are an IBO you get the download for free or asmall fee. If not an IBO, you pay a higher price.
The arguement that most IBO's don't own an MG3 player doesn't hold water. If asked to buy one in order to have access to the valuable tools info, they'd buy one in a minute. AND an MP3 player costs less than the an eSpring machine. Put a book on the reading list that explains how to use the MP3. Isn't Quixtar all about being up to speed with technology and the use of the computer?
One last question. How exactly is KATE valuable? As far as I can see, it's a fancy answering machine, and I can't get my inlaws to give me an answer beyond, "It takes care of all my business, my voice mails, my faxes, etc."
I truly am curious, because if it is simply voice mail, well, I pay for voicemail. I don't see anything wrong with just getting voice mail from another source, as long as it isn't vastly more expensive.
Insider,
No there is no incentive to have a profitable business for their downline. Sure it would be nice if they stuck around but as long as others are signing up to replace those that quit it doesn't really matter to them.
I also cannot believe that you have to ask me about the difference between building a big group and a profitable group. If you really think those two go hand in hand everytime then your head is deeper in the sand then I thought.
Michael,
Yes you are dancing around it. You refuse to accept that the 9 CORE steps are a part of the Eagle program.
So yes let's make this simple, answer this question:
Can you have an Eagle structure in your group and not be doing the 9 CORE steps and still get recognized as a qualified Eagle. If the answer is no then you cannot be trying to seperate the two.
MP3s just isn't quite there as a mainstream technology. Remember, CDs are supposed to be used more for loaning out to prospects and new IBOS than just for listening to by yourself. You can't very well expect all prospects to have or buy an MP3 player to hear about your business! I believe what you are talking about is the way of the future, but the market isn't quite there for it yet.
Now, we don't have communikate where I am, we have something else, but I just find the voice communication far more "powerful". Emails are great for exchanging information, but when you have more "emotional" types of issues, it's not there. When you need a bit of motivating, or you want to complain about something, or report things go wrong or whatever, email just doesn't have it. What's more I find that I'm willing to be more honest about those kind of things on a voicemail recording than on either a person-person call or in real life. If I want to whinge and complain, or indeed if my downline wants to whinge and complain to me, I find it much easier to do and handle on voicemail. You don't have the instant-response types of issues of realtime, but yet you can still convey emotional issues which you can't via email. I found this out through experience of moving to another market where voicemail wasn't offered. I thought we could get by with email and realtime. I eventually signed up back in my home market and use it internationally.
As far as Kate goes, I think it was really useful for sending down messages to a whole group. However, I find that for the few messages that actually contained important information, email would work just as well and would probably be much better. I mean, really, does anyone else relay important info to a large group by phone messages?
I think the main reason for Kate is to have one more way of keeping everyone motivated. When I was in, most of the messages were people saying how awesome the most recent meeting was (serious IBOs were expected to leave messages about how AWESOME the meeting and the speaker was and how FIRED UP!!! everyone was).
We also heard messages about how awesome the upline was, how people were able to contact others while going about their daily duties. We also got messages from upline diamonds about how awesome their vacations were. (Those were especially annoying.) And some messages could go on for over 5 minutes! If I didn't check my messages for a few days, by the time I came back, I would have 30 messages, if I was lucky, or even 50 or more. And each message was generally at least 90 seconds long. And my sponsor said he didn't even forward all the messages he got!
Furthermore, if my sponsor didn't check his messages everyday, chances are we wouldn't get them on time. Email would be better in this regard.
So basically, the messages were pretty much useless, IMO. Communikate was generally a waste of time because it sometimes took an hour to listen to all these messages. An hour out of the already limited time plan showing core IBOs had available. Towards the end, I pretty much started letting my messages accumulate and when I did listen to them, I would just listen to the first 5 seconds and then delete them. Listening to communikate messages was probably the most painful part of the business for me. Moreso than listening to CDs.
I guess it could be useful for receiving faxes (I don't think I ever received any business-related faxes, though) and convenient for people who wanted to fax you documents because it was a toll-free number.
We also had occasional conference calls using Communikate (those cost extra on top of the monthly fee).
I think that for some regular businesses, Communikate might be a good idea, but for most IBOs, it's probably overkill.
As far as being core and being an eagle, what I remember is that in BWW, the core steps were the very minimum and that eagle steps built upon the core steps. Anyone that has an Eagle brochure can confirm that. You can't be eagle without being core. I'll see if I can find an eagle brochure.
Insider wrote:
Drew,
The purpose of being core is not to be core.
---------------------------------
Yeah.. Am I the only one confused here?
Ah-ha! So the truth about Kate finally is revealed! It's not about true business matters, it's about a daily indoctrination of the "Quixtar is the only way, never give up" mentality.
I kinda wondered what kind of faxes they were getting.
Drew,
9 Core steps:
1. STP
2. Personal Use
3. Retail
4. Tapes/CD's
5. Books
6. Functions
7. Be Teachable
8. Be Accountable
9. Communikate
World Wide Dream Builders - Eagle Club
QUALIFICATIONS:
Signed counsel sheet to upline Diamond
300 PV personal use and retail, 200 PV for singles for the qualifying month.
Width numbers of 6 / 5 / 3 (PB/SO/MF)
6 legs at 100 PV or higher
5 legs on Standing Order
3 legs attending Major Functions
*This is actually outdated now since we've also included the Premier membership to the Eagle Qualifications. But for the sake of simplicity, I'll refer to the old version.
So Drew, again, if you are not on Standing order, you don't qualify for the Eagle section if that's what you are shooting for. However as I've pointed out, it's completely different from the 9 core steps.
IMHO, I think Kate should be the bare minimum, because you can use your communikate number on any advertising or business cards. It's also more convenient to listen to several up to date messages than to listen to a tape or CD. I'd tell my upline to get rid of the tapes CD's functions because to me its better to listen to my kate messages. I can choose to listen to what messages I want to. It's also useful for calling long distance and not putting those charges on my phone bill. The conferencing feature is very nice too.
Former IBO - it's like the purpose of having car is not to have a car - it's to have a vehicle you can use to get places, not just to have it look pretty in the driveway. Core isn't really a goal, it's a strategy. Recognizing core is like getting a gold star for good attendance at school. It's a means, not an end.
Drew - I inquired as to the "HUGE" difference. In general a bigger business is a more profitable business. But let's please clarify something -
You believe that uplines are primarily interested in making profit from tools, yet you don't think they have any incentive to have their downline build profitable businesses even though that would self evidently help increase their tool profit?
A weird world you live in.
Michael,
This is really getting old quick. I know you want to dance around this issue and do whatever you can to seperate the two but it is not going to work. So I am just going to continue to ask these questions until I see these straight answers you have claimed to give me.
Going off of the qualifications you listed above answer these questions:
1. Do you qualify Eagle if you don't show the plan three times a week?
2. Do you qualify Eagle if you are not on Communikate?
3. Do you qualify Eagle if you don't go to the major functions but you still have 3 legs attending?
I could go on but the point will remain that if you answer No to any of those questions the 9 CORE steps are not seperate from Eagle. You don't list any of the tasks I have in the above questions as part of your Eagle qualification, but they are very much a part of the CORE qualifications.
As usual I think Rara said it best:
"You can't be eagle without being core."
For some reason you don't want to just admit this and you have decided to dance around the issue trying to seperate something that clearly goes together.
I am starting to understand why I never heard back from you about coming on the podcast, you seem to be having a hard time in writing answering questions, answering them live would be a disaster.
"You believe that uplines are primarily interested in making profit from tools, yet you don't think they have any incentive to have their downline build profitable businesses even though that would self evidently help increase their tool profit?"
Well first of all you still are struggling thinking that a big business must mean profitable. I think it was John Crowe who once said his son-in-law had 200 people in his group and was making $200 a month.
But let me guess you are going to chalk that up to an isolated incident like you do everytime your ridiculous statements get debunked?
But let's play your game for a minute and say that the 9 CORE steps were designed to help build profitable businesses downline. We can just for now ignore the clear fact that every product upline makes money from just happens to be a required step for success.
If it's designed to help build a profitable business then the design flat out sucks. With a vast majority of IBOs losing money this plan seems like a big failure. But yet it keeps on getting preached as the way to go and from stage Diamonds are very adament about not doing anything else but this, and the only time it seems to change is when a new tool that makes money for the upline gets added.
Yeah if this plan is designed to build profitable businesses I think someone may need to take a second look at this. Because when you compare how it does to generating money for upline compared to how it does for building a profitable business one result is clearly more successful then the other, and it's not the profitable business result.
So sure a Diamond can benefit by having some of it's downline be profitable, I mean after all they need to get to Diamond for the tool money, but as far as having a real incentive to have a profitable downline....Nah! For each one that quits another signs up and keeps the money flowing.
But what do I know those are just the facts right?
BTW, I am not the one who lives in a world where if I didn't see it or hear it personally then it just couldn't have happened or be that way. So I suppose this world I like to call Reality would seem a little weird to you.
Drew,
You're right, this is getting old REAL fast.
I've answered your questions, and you choose to ignor my responses.
Again I'll answer yours directly,
1. Do you qualify Eagle if you don't show the plan three times a week?
From the qualifications I listed above, YES!
2. Do you qualify Eagle if you are not on Communikate?
From the qualifications I listed above, YES!
3. Do you qualify Eagle if you don't go to the major functions but you still have 3 legs attending?
From the qualifications I listed above, YES!
You're somehow trying to twist this around but it's really cut and dry.
There is no "CORE" section at the functions.
Seeing as how you can't seem to have a decent conversation with IBO's or can treat IBO's with any respect, I don't see how I would be a "welcomed" guest on your podcast.
Until you can answer my very basic questions, this is a complete waste of my time.
A BS material producing diamond who gains from his downline being core has an incentive in their downline being large but unprofitable for the following reasons:
1) A profitable IBO has a lesser dependence on the BS material for motivation (profit motivates better than anything else)
2) The more time an IBO remains unprofitable, the more money flows upline.
3) A profitable IBO is more likely to become a diamond him/herself and compete with (and diminish the profits of) existing diamonds in a group. Law of diminishing returns...
Drew,
We do things a bit differently at WWDB than BWW. I think that's where our communication breakdown is.
We have a very different Eagle packet than you did.
Our 5 steps to diamond are as follows:
1)CORE
2)Eagle
3)Double Eagle
4)River Rendevous-(Ron Puryear's house)
5)Diamond
You may have a "core" recogition through bww, but wwdb doesn't. To me "core" just differentiates a person from being a prosumer or a business builder. That's it.
Drew, I'm getting real tired of your comments like -
I am not the one who lives in a world where if I didn't see it or hear it personally then it just couldn't have happened or be that way.
Can you point to just one single place where I have said that if I didn't experience it, it means it doesn't happen. Find one. I challenge you. Resorting to ad hominem attacks based on lies is pretty pathetic.
balaji -
Re 1. You don't understand much about motivation. Profit does not motivate above all else. If you have any backing at all for the claim, please provide it. Aside from that why do you think BSM is only about motivation? The books, a major part of BSM, are rarely about motivation. Tapes and seminars have techniques, product knowledge, prospecting materials etc etc etc. Motivation is just one part of BSM.
Re 2. You don't understand the business plan.
Re 3. You definitely don't understand the business plan.
Michael,
So in WWDB you can be considered an Eagle and you don't even have to show plans? You don't even have to attend functions? But you have to buy tapes?
WOW! That is some Eagle program. So is WWDB saying that you really don't need to go to functions or show plans to be successful? Because I thought Eagle was the program to help you be on your way to having a successful group.
As far as a podcast goes Michael you apparently will never know. You don't seem to mind coming on blogs and taking time to comment, but a chance to show a critic wrong on his own podcast and you all of the sudden don't have the time, etc.
I could give a rip if you come on or not, I just find your logic interesting and it seems you don't want to be asked any questions in real time. Don't fret though Michael you aren't the first or the last.
Please Insider you have been getting tagged with that ever since I have been on the forums. Anyone who wishes to go on over and read the archives can see for themselves.
Interesting that the only thing you found to respond to was that. Either I am really getting to you, or you just don't have any answers.
However, most people still do not have MP3 players (a pew internet survey last year reported 11% of Americans had one), and many still struggle with using them.
You don't need an MP3 player. You just need a computer. And since we're running e-commerce businessses in the 21st century, it's not too much to ask to have a computer, right?
And a cheap sub-$100 MP3 player is also not too much to ask, and is certainly less than system costs over time.
Struggle with using them? Who is saying IBOs are idiots now? Hey, here's an idea: how about an MP3 file that teaches MP3 player fundamentals? You can even sell the same MP3 player through the LOS for uniformity (just don't charge twice its MSRP).
What's more you can't lend an MP3 to someone who doesn't have an MP3 player,
It's called e-mail, honey. I assume that people running "e-commerce" businesses can do that.
lending a CD is far easier. Yes, you could burn, but then you have an unprofessional looking CD, and the requirement of IBOs needing a CD burner and knowing how to use it.
Once again, CD burners have been standard fare on computers for many years now. And burning an MP3 isn't rocket science; it's a basic drag-and-drop operation in Windows and Mac. If you find it to be so bloody complicated, release a training MP3.
Lame, lame, lame excuses.
MP3s just isn't quite there as a mainstream technology.
Have you been stuck in 2001? Welcome to the present.
You can't very well expect all prospects to have or buy an MP3 player to hear about your business!
You. Don't. Need. An. MP3. Player. That's like saying every prospect needs a Walkman to listen to your CD.
What a weird world you live in.
LoL I laugh @ some of the "Negative" post I see on these blogs! Former IBO's who hasn't profitted from the business(sort of like a disgruntled employee!) Everyone has something 2 say about a Corporation that does BILLIONS! lol, some of u guys crack me up (there are over 40 to 60 thousand IBO's in the BWW System! Wake the hell up! 30thousand people just went Platinum in the U.S!! 50-70 thousand dollars a year for the rest of their lives/30 thousand people! Get ur facts right, maybe it DIDNT WORK 4 YOU! Maybe u werent CORE lol. Come around my team, 4000pv level 4 myself. I'll be platinum by MARCH CREEP! My income will jump 30 to 40 thousand dollars! But truthfully we dont care what u PESSIMIST think (why because as we speak somebody is shopping on our websites/registering 2 become an IBO.) Understand this whether u like it or not another 50,000 people will register 2 become an IBO This Fiscal Year.
PS:Why dont some of u guys use ur Real Names so I can "GOOGLE" you! If u looked hard enough u can find something NEGATIVE on ur grandmoms! (This dude said he googled someone,get a life fam 4real)
L8ter Lames/LoL Im laughing @ ya'll
Its Done,
Boy, was that an intelligent, well-worded post. You have my deepest respect.
I'll be the first to say that people CAN make money through the LOSes. I just don't agree with the ethics of "the Biz."
BTW, why didn't you use your real name?
LOL! Some of the IBOs who come and post here crack me up. Writing stuff on this blog as if we had never heard it before, being obvlivious to the fact that every new IBO who comes here says basically the same thing.
They come here and tell the critics the same things about how we didn't work hard enough and didn't do the 9 steps etc, only for those who actually stick around to find out some of the hardest working IBOs are on this board as former IBOs.
Oh and let's not forget the exaggerated claims they make that they cannot back up with any kind of real hard data, and the important facts they leave out as well. Like 30 thousand going Platinum and making 50-70 thousand for the rest of their lives. What was not told to you is that a majority of them will fall out of qualification and will not be making 50-70 thousand a year for the rest of their lives.
Let's also not forget how some tell us their current pin levels and then tell us what pin level they are going to be next March etc. What they don't tell you is that they will be saying the same thing two years from now.
What I laughed the most about with our newest IBO to comment is that he wants real names used and doesn't use a real name himself. Well for the record every author on this board uses his real name and can be seen on the About page of this blog. What is interesting is that it's the IBOs and supporters that want to remain hidden on the internet. HMMM, I wonder who has something to hide.
30 thousand people going platinum this year and making $50-70 thousand per year?
I don't think so dude ....
Hard enough dealing with the critic BS without having to deal with IBO BS as well :-/
Im Core too..but ive never been to a big function =p. And ive been trying to find a way to get out of the stupid SoT cuz seriously, i havent listened to any of them at all. But you do need to be core to make the business work, its just that sometimes..theres small expenses that i dont really see as needed
Christian,
I really don't consider myself 100% core. I haven't been to a major function since 2003, nor have I been on SOT for 13 months now. I've just taken from this business what works and left everything else behind.
That's one of the reasons I find it a bit rediculous that Drew has to argue with me. I agree with him much more than he realizes, yet he has a hard time figuring that one out.
Also, I am answering these posts in "real time" too, it's not scripted by my upline as much as Drew would like to think. If he does think that, THANK YOU! Because that means I am doing my job as an upline.
Going on a podcast would be a waste of time because
A) I've done my own podcast before and I absolutely HATE how my voice sounds on a recorded message, I gave up on podcasting because it just not my voice that I hear.
B)I also have a big serious phobia about public speaking. I am afraid to death of it. He can't understand that and doesn't seem to care if someone has that phobia.
C) I agree with Drew about alot of things, as an IBO I just can't voice my opinion publicly as much as I'd like to...
Christian,
You seem to be proof that if you like the products and have some decent common sense, you can make a profit with Quixtar. Yet, I'm curious. You say you need to be CORE to make the business work, but you haven't gone to a big function yet, and you'd would like to get off the SOT. In doing so, you would no longer be CORE, but you'd still be doing well with the business. Do you still agree with your comment regarding the necessity of being CORE?
Also, are you reading daily from the BOM? Are you on Kate? You don't seem to be the type that would be into the daily motivational pep talks that Kate offers.
You know I have been reading all this talk about these buisness and if you think about all buisnesses are like this. First of all if you expect to make a profit without spending money you will be wrong and when you buy these books or tapes form you upline or even from a partner store you make points, credits, or money back. when they say "Show the plan" it is like an advertisment in a newspaper or an commercial on T.V. The steps of CORE are like a guide lines of selling the products. I know many buissnesses that use simialar styles like in selling houses or cars. You all have really drove off the track of what Core is it is a guideline to help you succeed not something like a step of rules or laws that if you dont follow them you will lose your buisness or be band from conventions.
So I leave you with some things to think about....
Do you belong to this buisness and are you trying to succeed.
And if your not part of this why are you trying to tell everyone that it dont work.
And have you even tried it or are you just going of what you have read from people that have written blogs or have told stories.
Anyway that is my view feel fre to reply.
@INQ
Well, the reason i havent been to a big function is cuz i dont have a visa -_- (and my parents wont let me get one). Id say im core. I do everything including the kate. Its just that i dont see the benefit of the SOT. Only time ive heard of BOM is in this forums, but i read Maxwells books and really like his cd. IBO or not, what he says is rather true
PS: Im getting the pudding next week ^.^. And why cant Q* Canada get the products that Q* US has? Seriously..
"So I leave you with some things to think about....
Do you belong to this buisness and are you trying to succeed.
And if your not part of this why are you trying to tell everyone that it dont work.
And have you even tried it or are you just going of what you have read from people that have written blogs or have told stories.
1. No I do not belong to this business anymore, I busted my tail for over a year and only saw my financial situation damper for it.
2. Again I was a part of it, and I am telling those who come here the things that many IBOs won't tell them when they sit down to tell them about the business.
3. Once again, yes I did try it and never saw a site or blog till I was already in for some time.
I can never understand why anyone would be against sites that take critical looks at an opportunity like this. Why is there this want for silence about clear abuses that are happening?
Why is it the "critics" who seem to be more open and transparent then those who are claiming to support Quixtar. They hide behind alias names (until Qblog outs them) and try to put together little groups, or in Quixtar's case big groups to try and Google Bomb to get critical sites out of public view.
I can never understand why not just put it all out there, good and bad, and let people make up their minds for themselves.
Michael,
If you think you are answering questions on a blog as real time then I question if you have any idea what I am talking about when making that reference. Also how would having your upline script your answers be considered you doing your job as an upline? It is your job to have your upline tell you what you can say?
A) So that's a good reason to not do your own, but you are telling me that the sound of your voice somehow affects the message others would hear?
B) You have never told me this, and had told me at one point you were going to come on. So don't sit here and tell others I don't care about your phobia when you have never relayed such information to me.
C) Some independent business you have there when you can't voice your own opinion. Guess IBOs aren't quite independent as they like to think.
(Goes into adult mode =p)
Well, i for one isnt against the critic sites, specially this one cuz this is rather open..and most of the critics actually knows what their talking about instead of just the usual crap -_-. I tell my prospects everything thats needed, the good and bad, and what to expect from the corporation and what they expect from me. If they ask what exactly is this? I could say viral marketing, ecommerce, network marketing, etc. Im not going to say this isnt any of those O_o. But ill always tell them that there IS money in word of mouth, as i do like the products and my approach tend to be product-oriented.
(Teen mode ^.^)
Are drug users allowed to do this biz? I have someone thats a real pothead, done acid with her couple times, but shes rreeaalllyy hard working and open-minded. Im afraid that if she does get into this, she might find herself out of place with all the suits and stuff. Plus, shed be asked to dye her hair back to its natural color (right now its green..lol)
Oh, much like my parents, my uplines dont know i smoke, drink and do drugs -_-
Drew,
C'mon, are you being serious here or not? That isn't what I said and you know it. I am taking that comment of YOURS that you think I am "scripted" by my upline as a huge compliment. We'll leave it at that. You can draw your own conclusions how ever you want to.
Bottom line. CORE is a program designed to help you make it to platinum and then onto diamond.
Quixtar's numbers suggest 1 in 240 go platinum and 1 in 14,000 go diamond.
Does CORE work? I'd say there must be a better way. But I would guess that CORE helps to ensure that upline makes money on tools.
Well JoeCool18, if 1 in 240 go Platinum, and Core is away to go platinum, how many people are Core for the time it takes to go Platinum?
How many people are Core for 12 months?
How many people are Core for 24 months?
The plan commonly says 2-5 years to Diamond
How many people are Core for 2 years?
How many people are Core for 5 years?
Find out those numbers and then compare them to the 1 in 240 and 1 in 14,000.
insider/ibbfightback,
I don't care how many are CORE for 12 months or whatever. I don't promote CORE as being the key to your financial success.
Most LOS probably tell prospects that they can be financially free if only they will be CORE for XX number of months/years. They NEVER mention that for whatever reason, the vast majority of those who try to be CORE, are never able to stay CORE. It's almost impossible.
Why don't I promote a fool proof system to win the lottery. Simply buy 100 lottery tickets each week and you will hit it big. What? You went broke and never won the lottery? Well that's because you quit before you bought the winning ticket. If you kept buying 100 lottery tickets each week, sooner or later you will make it. Now that you quit, you're just bitter and want to speak badly about lotteries.
Actually, I think IBOFightback 's idea of showing the ratio
CORE for 2 years: platinum and
CORE for 5 years: diamonds
would be quite telling.
I don't doubt that being CORE consistently can lead to more success than non CORE. Problem is two things:
1. Upline profits from CORE IBOs therefore they have a motivation to promote CORE regardless of IBO success.
2. Remaining CORE consistently is almost impossible. According to my upline and what I have heard from others - you miss one step and your business goes backwards 6-12 months.
Oops, got sick and could not STP for 1 week = failure (for example)
C-O-R-E:
(C) consistently (O) overpaying for (R) redundant (E) excrement: CORE
It's hard, but it's not impossible and anyone can do it with determination.
But why would you think developing a business bringing in 6 figures in only a few years would be easy?
Insider, all due respect, that's where the fallacy lies. Not "anyone" can do it with determination. Let's be realistic. Diamonds generally are somewhat charismatic, speak well, and are quite convincing. Granted certain people can learn some of these skills, but to say "anyone" can do it with determination is false.
Some people simply cannot speak to large groups, lead other leaders and have conviction when they speak.
These are things I developed when I was growing up, always being a leader, etc. which is why I felt I was able to build a near platinum business in less than a year.
BTW, I noticed also that most IBOs
who made it to diamond (from my experience) were able to build a platinum business in 12 months or less. So if you cannot do that, your odds of going diamond are greatly diminished, IMHO.
>Not "anyone" can do it with determination. Let's be realistic. Diamonds generally are somewhat charismatic, speak well, and are quite convincing. Granted certain people can learn some of these skills, but to say "anyone" can do it with determination is false.
I agree with your realistic attitude. Unfortunately, this attitiude seems to be unacceptable to most "dreaming" ibos. The more they struggle and sacrifice, the more their dream means to them, and the more determined they are to NEVER EVER QUIT. That's the scary, cult-like side of the MOs.
Michael,
Why do you leave others to draw conclusions instead of just lay it out there? Is this a common practice among IBOs? I still don't understand why you think it is a compliment to be a scripted repeating machine of your upline. Very confusing why anyone would be proud of being a parrot.
So much negative -_- ..some of you guys need to chill or something (passes doobie) =p. But seriously though, not a lot of people can even stay core for a month..let alone 1 year. Most of the time, they dont give themselves a break. I do mine like a job (..how irnoic). 4-5 days business..3-2 days for myself ^.^ ..anyone bugs me about business in my myself day, i tell them to go upline or send a kate =)
Drew,
Bottomline, who is Core 100% of the time? I am not, nor have I ever been core 100% of the time. If we were core 100%, we wouldn't be having this discussion now, would we? (I am sure that is the kind of response you were expecting, Drew). Drew, however I will agree with you that Core does need to be shortened to just 4 or even 5 steps to make it still work. Think Basics of MLM.
I also really disagree with Joecool's response that odds of 1 in 90 million is much better than 1 in 240 or even 1 in 14,000. You might have somewhat better odds investing in real estate or stocks, but in a lotto ticket? Get serious.
Christian LOL I have to agree with you!
People need to just "chill". Take from this business what works, and leave the rest. How hard is that? Not very difficult. Who cares what your upline begs you to do? Just do what you need to do to get done. If you can understand that...
...my crossline is beating me -_-...damnit
JoeCool18,
Things like "charisma" and the ability to speak in front of crowds are all skills that can be taught. Some have more natural talent then others, but virtually anyone can be taught these skills. I've seen the development again and again. I know of one Founder's Crown Ambassador who, when he started, wouldn't even answer the phone if his wife wasn't home. Now he speaks in front of tens of thousands. I've seen people go from 3%ers stuttering their name and occupation on stage in their native language to being Diamonds speaking in foreign lands in a foreign language.
Diamonds have those skills because they learned them. Very few started with them. Diamonds are made, not born.
This is not meant to be a slam, even though it may sound like it. Quixtar's MOs have found the niche: people who just want someone to believe in them.
wouldn't that be just about everyone?
"People need to just "chill". Take from this business what works, and leave the rest. How hard is that? Not very difficult. Who cares what your upline begs you to do? Just do what you need to do to get done. If you can understand that... "
Very Utopian though, However it dismisses one very important point. Unless you are an IBO living in a cave, you must realize that the majority of income in this business is derived from sources other than Am/Quix. I won;t wast your time documenting this information, do a google or look in this blog's archives. Fortunately I am one of those, as Dexter says, is not at the mercy of an IBO with a theory on this point because I have had the experience. As a "net loss" founder's ruby, 50% of our gross income came from tools. Still wasn't enough to cover expenses.
What Michael doesn't realize is that those upline, from whom he is deciding what to use and what not to use, hold the key to the majority of the income potential in this business. Who do you think they are going to want on stage earning those rediculous speaker fees; someone who has been picking and choosing or someone who has been "faithful"?
A "net loss" Ruby? Plus the same income again from tools?
And you weren't covering expenses?
I'd be fascinated to hear what your monthly expenses were.
Insider,
Yes, everyone DOES need someone to believe in them and validate what they are doing in life. Unfortunately, not everyone has that. I work in a very supportive and positive environment. I'm in a very healthy and positive marriage. For those people who aren't as blessed, they may crave the positive support and encouragement that Quixtar offers.
Just look at all the results of sin in this world. Quixtar definitely has a niche to fill.
Again, all evidence points to the undeniable truth that the kingpins are financially mugging their downline by using cult tactics to convince the downline they can be financially free & live the lavish lifestyles presented at FED etc. through a Quixtar business. Take away the tools money and the diamonds could not support their own businesses. Remember it is the kingpins who say that core is the means of success. Thus, if they had to provide this core without charging they would soon use up all of their Quixtar income. Also, all the lines they use - For example, "We eliminate the middleman." Why then does XS Energy sell their energy drinks to Logic Nutrition (a friend of Greg Duncan) who then sells it to Greg Duncan's Sarshela company who then sells it to Quixtar who then sells it to the IBOs who then sell it to their retail customers. How has that eliminated the middleman?
C'mon George, still waiting to hear how your Founder's Ruby business incurred more than $10,000/mth in expenses!
Does it really matter if the kingpins are taking in extra money? As long as i reach atleast 50k/year, i could care less.
George,
On a serious note...I would love to hear about all the expenses at the Platinum/Ruby level(s). Especially today, with no local inventory needed, much less travelling, inexpensive tools & the focus on retailing.
If your intent is to truly "save" us from what you went through...then, please tell us ALL of the necessary details.
Thanks,
Anon
Does it really matter if the kingpins are taking in extra money? As long as i reach atleast 50k/year, i could care less.
...and if you don't?
George,
I think if you are going to make a claim of expenses then you need to produce it. The same I would expect from any IBO making claims about income in the business. Although they seem to run and dodge when asked for such evidence as well.
@Drew
..and if i do? At my current pace (which is rather below) its possible in a year..max Summer 08. Ive seen some of my uplines from the middle to retire (ones retiring this month). Ive been with this guy, who was barely eagle, and is now above double. Im on my way up too..its too late to tell me (..if i dont) -_-. Tell that to the new guys
"C'mon George, still waiting to hear how your Founder's Ruby business incurred more than $10,000/mth in expenses!"
from: The Truth About Amway and Quixtar
REPLY:
WHERE did George even SAY his expenses were $10,000 per month? Is this another example of your 'extrapolated' earnings figures?
Willy,
"George" stated that he was a ""net loss" founder's ruby, 50% of our gross income came from tools. Still wasn't enough to cover expenses."
He didn't state his expenses were over $10k, but he's implying it here.
I am curious as to know just how recent that was or was it back in the 70's or 80's?
Willy,
"George" stated that he was a ""net loss" founder's ruby, 50% of our gross income came from tools. Still wasn't enough to cover expenses."
He didn't state his expenses were over $10k, but he's implying it here.
I am curious as to know just how recent that was or was it back in the 70's or 80's?
Posted by: Michael | November 28, 2006 4:15 PM
Q: HOW is $10,000 per month implied?
Christian> Does it really matter if the kingpins are taking in extra money? As long as i reach atleast 50k/year, i could care less.
Joe> Yes, it matters when these diamonds are teaching you "Christian values", saying quixtar saves marriages, saying they are honest and forthright people. If they are making that extra money by deceiving people, it is a problem, even if you don't think so.
Insider et al
You must be confusing my revenue/expense numbers with your own. I never said, nor did I imply that my expenses were in excess of $10M per month. Someone in your upline must have told you a founders ruby made $120M/year, so it must be true, and you've been repeating that to all of you prospects since then. I said as a founders ruby, our gross income was not sufficient to cover our expenses on an annual basis. I would remind you that income and cash flow are not interchangeable terms in accounting. A $300 car payment is a cash flow item. A vehicle that depreciates $20M in one year because it hase 75000 miles on it is an expense.
It is interesting to me that someone can make an income claim to you at a meeting, and it must be truth because an IBO said it. However when someone makes and expense claim, particularly a former IBO, it must be a lie designed to kill quixtar.
I did enjoy reading all of your posts. You all managed to spin the discussion away from the primary point of my post, which was: since the majority of the income potential of this business, regardless of how you spin it, what you emphasize, or what you care to pick and choose, comes from the tools. If you think you have the determination and the lack of integrity it takes to build to the diamond level, you have no choice but to swallow without question whatever your upline decides to put in your mouth, because the minute you spit it out, you have lost your opportunity to dip in the tool pool. Then the only income potential you have is selling a few boxes of soap, and becoming a function junkie.
Remember, I have the experience - you have a theory. Come talk to me when you go Founders Ruby.
@joecool
welp, thing is, im in it for the money and not wanting to work. Thats possible. As far as them getting extra money from the cds, so what? Its not like more than 50% of their money came from cds. I know couple people making atleast 100k and ive never heard a cd from them.
fyi: my parents and even my gf has said ive become a better person cuz of this business. Doesnt have to be "christian values" cuz i dont really care about those, i just became a better person.
Note: Shaw claims i should have a lot of bandwidth as im paying for the top option. Yet, its not as fast as it claims. Maybe i should be all negative about that too..then again..its above average
Hi Christian,
How do you know that couple is really making $100K? What's their pin level? And is the $100K only from the business?
Thanks.
"..and if i do? At my current pace (which is rather below) its possible in a year..max Summer 08"
Are you willing to be back by summer of '08 showing us your $50k a year? and then if you are not at 50k a year answer the question "and if you don't?"
"Its not like more than 50% of their money came from cds. I know couple people making atleast 100k and ive never heard a cd from them.
fyi: my parents and even my gf has said ive become a better person cuz of this business. Doesnt have to be "christian values" cuz i dont really care about those, i just became a better person."
Do you have any proof to back up the 50% statement? Just because they don't make a CD doesn't mean they don't get money from tools. My Ruby never made a tape but got tool bonus checks.
Just curious about this next part. I hear so many talk about how good of a person they become with this business, and your statement has especially got my attention since you say you don't care about Christian values.
What standard do you compare against to say you are a better person? What standard are you comparing against to say that someone is a better person and how do you directly give the business credit for it?
"It is interesting to me that someone can make an income claim to you at a meeting, and it must be truth because an IBO said it. However when someone makes and expense claim, particularly a former IBO, it must be a lie designed to kill quixtar."
So true, so very very true.
This is the conundrum. Are you becoming a better person by giving people self-confidence and improved self-esteem even if some of the things that you teach them aren't true? Is it OK to say, "These tools/functions/activities will definitely help you grow your business, and don't let anyone tell you otherwise," even if the person has a little to no chance of ever making it in the business, or they have been in for a considerable amount of time, but continue to lose money? That person may love what the books and tapes tell them, that they will succeed if they don't quit. The functions leave them feeling inspired and good about themselves. They may never make it, but they now feel needed, included and valued--at a cost, of course. Is that something a good person would do?
I'm not sure what the answer is.
Im just not religious..so i dont care. But whats what most people who knew me before i started out in this biz.
If im not making atleast 50k/yr by Summer 08, then i might as well quit -_- cuz i already have 7 legs, 3 are very active, and im adding 2 more (1 of which is really into it..meet her on the bus..i almost literally did a 1 on 1 on the bus.. lol)
Welp, how do you know they do make atleast 50% of their income from tools? You could just look at their pv and bv and figure out how much they make..plus the 10k bonus..and the 5k trip
"Im just not religious..so i dont care. But whats what most people who knew me before i started out in this biz."
So the standard you use to make this claim is just another person's opinion of your behavior, and you have nothing to really establish that this business has made you a better person?
"If im not making atleast 50k/yr by Summer 08, then i might as well quit -_- cuz i already have 7 legs, 3 are very active, and im adding 2 more (1 of which is really into it..meet her on the bus..i almost literally did a 1 on 1 on the bus.. lol)"
So does this mean you will be showing that to us sometime before or on the summer of '08 or not?
"Welp, how do you know they do make atleast 50% of their income from tools? You could just look at their pv and bv and figure out how much they make..plus the 10k bonus..and the 5k trip"
I can just as easily look at the numbers of folks who buy tools in groups, or watch the Dateline episode where an IBO was talking about 75% and come to another conclusion. The problem here however is that you made a statement that says they don't and I am asking you for your evidence to back up this statement, or would you rather just admit you have no idea?
Welp, only evidence i have is 2 of my uplines going past 50k/year and stuff. So, ill just say i have no idea(with dateline and all that stuff) except the living proof (which is those 2 uplines).
In the end, results prove otherwise.
Sure, Summer 08. If i dont reach that mark, i quit. But then again, at my current pace, ill reach it. How about yourself? Whats your problem with the business? That you think that everyone making atleast 100k is making most of their money off tools? If so..prove it before you try and corner me -_-
Fyi: Only tools ive bought for a month is that stupid SOT. Yet im at a profit (as i only have 3 expenses, site, kate, bizinator). I doubt bus pass is an expense >.
George, according to thisbiznow.com the average Q-12 platinum grosses just under $4000/mth from Quixtar. I don't think it is a stretch to think a Founder's Ruby would make $5000/mth. You then said you made about the same from tools - so that means gross income of $10000/mth. You then said "Still wasn't enough to cover expenses."
Which means your expenses were more than $10,000/mth.
Not spinning anything, nothing from my upline, nothing from a tape or a seminar. Just officially reported data and your own statements.
So George, I'm still interested in hearing about your $10,000 worth of expenses every month. Deprecating a Bentley or two were we? Please, let us in on your little secrets to thwart the IRS.
Why should George share information about his personal expenses? It's not anymore relevand that insider revealing his amquix income on this board.
He explictly made the claim. Seemed a bit odd to me, so I'm asking for some details. If he wants to say "none of your business" well I'll just have to accept that won't I? :-)
"He explictly made the claim. Seemed a bit odd to me, so I'm asking for some details. If he wants to say "none of your business" well I'll just have to accept that won't I? :-)"
Well at least you are willing to accept the same tactics you practice. Of course on top of just leaving, acting stupid, or just flat out ignoring points just to name some other common tactics of yours.
how many times does the guy have to say his expenses were not $10k per month;
how many pv do you need to be a ruby?
suppose he was in the bottom 10% of that group? What is the median? How many people are you talking about
you are assuming that he made the average income of a Q-12 ruby
THERE ARE NOT THAT MANY Q-12 ANYTHINGs to extrapolate his income.
just more bs
Requirement for Founders Ruby is 15,000 PV per month. For 12 months. Hence, the title "Founders".
Since the ratio of BV to PV is approximately 2.5 to 1, his BV would have been approximately 45,000 (at the MINIMUM required level of 15,000 PV).
He would have been at the top of the Bonus Payment Schedule, which is 25% of his BV. So, at 45,000 BV, he would have been getting minimum monthly bonus checks of $11,500.00. Not including any "side" PV or retail profit, or additional bonus checks. No tool income. Just money based on PV/BV.
Now, a couple of things to consider:
1. He had to turn around and payout bonus checks to all of his downline. That varies. Perhaps one of his downline was at 11,000 PV. In that case, most of his check would've gone downline. If the PV was nicely spread out between many downline, he would have a much nicer bonus check to keep.
2. We don't know the timeframe of when he built his business (70's, 80's, 90's, today) and we don't know how it was structured (lots of retail?, many legs or just a couple of strong ones?, etc.)
There are many things to consider. However, if one hits the MINIMUM Ruby level of 15,000 PV with multiple legs, they will make some good 'ching'. On a part time basis. No tool money yet either.
George, I REALLY want to know! WHAT were your expenses? Did your income look at all like what I laid out?
If you really want to "help" us, then you'd be forthright with what your financial situation was. I'm not asking for your last name or SSN. Just some truthful numbers.
You see, I've seen alot of written stories & claims but have seen NOTHING to really make me want to quit. I've really not seen anything "unethical" or questionable. All I'm asking for is PROOF so that I can make a fully informed decision....should I decide to quit & pursue something else.
Inquiring Mind:
I don't think it's ever ok to lead someone on. If they don't have what it takes or they need to change some things....then it's the upline's job to tell them exactly what they need to do. The rest is up to the downline. If they're not willing to change to get what they (think) they want...well then...it's not going to work for them, will it?
If they're losing money....they're doing something wrong.
In MY experience....our downline have not been WILLING to do what it takes. For example, go retailing with me (biz to biz) for one hour a week. Not willing! Can you believe it? Oh well. C'est la vie. That's who they're talking about when they talk about the "masses" or the 98%'ers.
Anon
Insider said:
George, according to thisbiznow.com the average Q-12 platinum grosses just under $4000/mth from Quixtar. I don't think it is a stretch to think a Founder's Ruby would make $5000/mth.
endquote
One cannot draw such conclusions from just the average numbers. We also need the exact distribution.
If Q* income was "normally distributed" like e.g., humans' height, then the above inference may be valid.
But for the population in a pyramid (not used in a derogatory sense here) where the bulk of the population is at or near the bottom, most of the people will be making less than the average unless higher pins make lesser income.
anon, Ruby qualification requires volume outside of any 25% qualifying legs, thus the maximum any individual leg could have had to contribute to him being Q-12 Ruby would be 7499PV.
From my calculations it's theoretically possible to be a Q-12 Ruby and earning as little as $2533/mth, but you'd really have to go out of your way to do it, with two legs each qualifying at 7499PV each month.
Mind you, it does seem many of the "experienced" whiners seem to have incredibly poorly structured businesses, so lets be generous and assume that's the case for George.
So George, tool income included, not making money means more than $5000/mth in expenses, every month. Don't suppose you want to enlighten us on how you racked up such a great amount? Tape player chewing up tapes was it? Kept leaving your CDs in the sun?
Balaji, your point is valid, however averages for particular levels in the business are for more "normal" than for example the average of an active IBO, which is horribly skewed by the vast majority doing little and earning little.
Q-12 platinum incomes are substantially normalized because those at the extremes will either fall out of qualification, and thus not be considered in the calculations, or move into a higher qualification bracket. Of the "average" incomes that are occasionally published by quixtar, the ones that are likely to be least normal are the average income for an active IBO and the average income for an EDC and above, as neither have these factors limiting at least one extreme.
"In MY experience....our downline have not been WILLING to do what it takes."
Therein lies the problem with Quixtar. If it is so difficult that none of your downline are willing to do what it takes to be successful, doesn't that say more about Quixtar than it does about your downline? Perhaps the return on (What it takes) is simply better with other businesses.
Look at the bright side. You won't have to deal with very many of those lazy downline, since 90% of Amway/Quixtar businesses are out of business by year 4.
http://mlmlaw.blogspot.com/2004/11/ninety-percent-solution.html
oh kendall, kendall, kendall ...
Quoting lawblawg are we? Very first paragraph on the link we gave we find mr lawdawg spreading false information. You may want to read -
MYTH: No growth in IBOs in 30 years
And then he goes on to quote an SBA study which only looked at businesses with employees! Please .... pick some better reference next time Kendall.
In any case, why do you think building a Quixtar business is supposed to be something really easy?
You might be interested in learning What is an Amway or Quixtar business worth. What on earth made you think that earning the equivalent of $14,000/mth after tax over 10 years (ie, spending ten years to build an emeraldship) would be easy?
If you can provide a better way, please share it.
Kendall,
Didn't read the entire comment, eh? Picking & choosing what you will comment back on???
Kendall, go back & read the entire quote...VERBATIM. What that means is: WORD FOR WORD.
Here's what you consider so 'difficult': spending ONE HOUR a week retailing. Or, showing the business plan to ONE NEW PERSON a week. Could be over breakfast, coffee, lunch, afternoon snack, dinner, dessert, evening, late evening, Sunday brunch, whatever. Shouldn't take more than an hour.
We're loaning them tools. And marketing materials. And products (for samples).
That's it.
You're telling me THAT'S too difficult???
That's pretty "telling" of why it didn't "work out" for you either...
Anon
Insider,
Thanks for the catch. I thought I was pretty thorough but missed the 7500 PV breakoff point from the downline's perspective.
My point still holds. One can make well over $5000 a month at the Ruby level if structured according to what is taught (at least in WWDB).
What one does with that money is NOT the responsibility of the business nor the upline. It's the responsibility of the IBO making that money. They need to be wise with it. If not, they will go broke.
Anon
Anon, not only can one gross $5000/mth from AQ as a Ruby, I think it would be a very unusual Founders Ruby that didn't.
Insider and Anon,
I want to encourage you. Try not to spend so much time on this forum. Instead, make your way to diamond in 2-5 years. I am being genuine here. Go and show the plan; prospect the waitress and the cashier at the grocery store. Keep your mind concentrated on the inspiring truths and testimonies of the diamonds. Make sure you listen to your CDs. Trust them with all your heart. You can do it. Most of all, don't waste your time on this forum. This time that can be spent showing the plan. I genuinely wish both of the the very best.
Bob
What about me -_-
"George"
If you don't want people to put a spin on things as you claim we do, then give us the specific details of what your expenses were.
Anon,
"One can make well over $5000 a month at the Ruby level if structured according to what is taught (at least in WWDB)."
From what my upline teaches that if you structure even a Platinumship correctly you could gross $100k per year.
I agree that a Founders ruby is also making in excess of $100k. So whether or not "george" wants to give specific details, then one could easliy imply that his expenses were well over $10k per month.
Also Taking Kendall's quote from Lawdawg,
"In MY experience....our downline have not been WILLING to do what it takes."
If everybody did what it takes, we wouldn't be having these discussions.
Not everyone is WILLING to do what it takes, and you can't blame that on the system. Being CORE is only part of the equasion. It takes a very specific kind of person to do what it takes to be successful in this kind of business model. That's where leadership skills kick in as an upline . You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make them drink. It's a known fact of life.
Why do 98% of people quit this business model after the first year? Is because they don't do what it takes.
Michael> "George, If you don't want people to put a spin on things as you claim we do, then give us the specific details of what your expenses were."
Joe> Kettle meet pot, pot meet kettle.
Michael, care to give the blog the details of your business including your net profit aftre paying fro tools?
Joe,
Don't step in and turn this discussion around. We're all still waiting to hear from George.
If/when I get to the Ruby level, and I find out all kinds of 'secret' & hidden activities that are unethical, etc. I certainly would do everything I could to tell the ethical IBO's out there about it! Especially if they were asking me!!! I'd let them know specifics instead of just being another 'vague' critic.
Besides Joe,
I've seen several IBO's lay out their monthly income, the bonus checks paid out & their monthly expenses as "proof" for you. You ignore it EVERY TIME!!!!! I've SEEN it! So, until you can go back & finish those discussions....I wouldn't start another one.
Anon
George,
As an AQMO critic, I would also like to hear what your income and expenses as a founders ruby were. I think it would give IBOs an idea of what to expect if they eveer get that far. We ask such requests of IBOs all the time (which they seldom answer), so it would be nice to hear from you too.
Thanks,
rara
"You might be interested in learning What is an Amway or Quixtar business worth. What on earth made you think that earning the equivalent of $14,000/mth after tax over 10 years (ie, spending ten years to build an emeraldship) would be easy?"
...and when you are finished reading that go on over to Quixtar Inside Out and read "Can you smell what Insider is shovelin?"
"From what my upline teaches that if you structure even a Platinumship correctly you could gross $100k per year."
WOW! So now we have Platinum's all the way to 100k a year if done right. Man and I though 50-70 was a stretch. Anyway, Michael first I would like to see that broken down and that teaching. You can e-mail me or simply post at the message boards. Second, how many IBOs have you seen accomplish $100k a year as Platinum?
"Besides Joe,
I've seen several IBO's lay out their monthly income, the bonus checks paid out & their monthly expenses as "proof" for you. You ignore it EVERY TIME!!!!! I've SEEN it! So, until you can go back & finish those discussions....I wouldn't start another one."
First of all Joe was talking to Michael and I don't ever recall Michael breaking down his income and expenses of his business and then publishing it for all to see. If he has I would like to see it.
Second of all please show us where these IBOs laid out there income and expenses for JoeCool to see I would like to see that as well. Also, are you an IBO? If so let's see your income and expense breakdown.
I can understand the fact that George made a claim and I believe he should back it up with data. But how many times have I seen an IBO come here making claims and then citing personal information when asked about their income or "success"? I find it amusing to watch the Q supporters go nuts trying to get someone to show what they are not willing to do themselves LOL!!
Anon> "Besides Joe,
I've seen several IBO's lay out their monthly income, the bonus checks paid out & their monthly expenses as "proof" for you. You ignore it EVERY TIME!!!!! I've SEEN it! So, until you can go back & finish those discussions....I wouldn't start another one"
Joe> Not on this blog. If you have seen such proof on other blogs please provide a link. Also, someone seeing an upline copy of someone's check is not proof of profit.
"You're telling me THAT'S too difficult???"
No. Your downline and the majority of all other people who sign up as IBO's are telling you that it is too difficult.
It's not difficult because people are affraid to talk to others. Quixtarians are very quick to point out how successful movies benefit from word of mouth advertising. Do people need a system to teach them how to tell you that a movie was good?
People are often immediately excited about the Quixtar opportunity only to change as they scrutinize the details of the business. Unfortunately, the details of the business show that most people don't see value in what Quixtar offers.
If it were truely a good business opportunity, people would be begging to sign up. You would, in that case, only need a motivational system to help those who really wanted to excel and needed the training and motivation.
The Quixtar leadership is not focused on helping the new IBO. Look at the IBOA. Why is it only made up of megawealthy Diamonds who made their money in Amway? Why are there no Platinums or other pins represented? It's an insular group that is more concerned with how many FAA points they can earn and how they can protect their system money than making this the best possible opportunity for the new person.
Anon, I know you want this to work and are putting your heart and soul into it. It's just my opinion that you can invest your time and money elsewhere and achieve a better return.
Drew,
Yes. I'm an IBO.
Monthly Expenses: Kate $32.00
Premier $49.95
SOT $15.00
Meetings $50.00
Mktg. Materials $15.00
GRAND TOTAL EXPENSES $161.95
Monthly Income: Refund/Profit $175.00
Bonus Check $400.00
Retail Profit $150.00
GRAND TOTAL INCOME $725.00
These numbers vary as with any business. The expenses have been both higher & lower. The income has typically been higher. We've not been as active as we'd like lately. When we pick up the pace again, the income will increase as well but the expenses should remain steady.
Hope that answers your question, Drew.
Anon
anon,
Thanks for listing your expenses and income. I didn't understand a couple of things:
1. What does refund/profit stand for?
2. Also, is your retail profit actual profit on products sold to customers or does it include the retail markup on stuff you buy for personal consumption?
Also, I have a few more questions, if you don't mind:
3. How many extra miles do you and/or your hubby travel for the business, e.g. for plan showing, meeting with downline, contacting, going to various meetings?
4. Do you attend all functions? If so, how much do they cost and how do you get there? Do you drive or fly, and whatever the case, how much does function transportation cost you? Do you also have seminar/rallies every month like BWW apparently has?
5a. How much do you spend on Quixtar products every month and how much PV does that give you?
5b. Before you joined Q, how much did you spend on these same products, and are there products you never used before Q?
For example, I used to spend probably much less than $150 every month on monthly consumables (including vegetables and other food stuffs I couldn't get from Q) but when I joined Q, I started spending about $300 (including shipping and taxes) to do my 100PV.
Thanks for answering other questions so far. Looking forward to your response.
rara.
JC,
I've not seen it on this particular blog HOWEVER, I HAVE seen it laid out specifically for YOU on other blogs in the past. Sorry but I'm not going to spend my time trying to go back & find them. If I think of where they're at, I'll find them & do a cut & paste for you.
Kendall,
I couldn't disagree more with your entire comment. First of all, I don't think you really know what you're talking about.
No, most people would NOT be begging to sign up even though this is a great (who said it was the greatest???) business opportunity. Just like they don't beg to sign up to workout at a great club or join a great weight-loss program or work for a great organization or attend a great church.
They're scared (one thing you were right about). They're scared that they can't do it. They're scared that they might be successful. What then? How do they handle that? Do they "deserve it"? Is it ok with God?
Most people want to stay in their 'comfort zone'. I fight it every single day! As a CHRISTIAN! Not even as an IBO but as a CHRISTIAN!
I find that most people (again, the masses) are perfectly content doing just enough to get by. MAYBE a little more...to tuck away for the future. It's the few & far between who strive to live out their full God-given potential. In whatever way that may be. It may be as a Quixtar franchise business or, it may be as a missionary in Russia. MOST people do not strive to do more than their j.o.b. & driving their kids to soccer.
Average sucks. In every way. I don't want that for me or for my family. Ever.
As far as the IBOAI Board, you may have a good suggestion for them. You know, to ask other PIN levels to join a few meetings a year. I can see your point. It's much like the different SOT's. I enjoy the Platinum, Ruby & Emerald ones more than the Diamond ones because there's something that's more "real" and "reachable" and "attainable" with those. They're still fresh on the journey to Diamond or Crown or whereever it is they're headed. I can relate more.
I hope this makes sense Kendall. Thanks for reading.
Anon
Rara,
I appreciate where you're coming from with your questions. I try to answer all of your questions. My eyelids are literally closing as I type this so I do need to get to bed.
I'll put the answers after the corresponding question number, ok?
1. Refund/Profit is the difference between wholesale & retail. It's my "savings".
2. Retail Profit is just that. Profit on products sold to CUSTOMERS (non-IBO's, non-Prosumers).
3. Honestly...no "extra miles". Often we show the business model at our home or 10 mins. away at a local restaurant or, over the phone using the webtour online.
4. Yes. We attend all functions. Two of them are "in our backyard" right here in Minneapolis. The other two are out of state. One we drive to (with other people to share gas expenses) and one we fly to. We've been making that our annual vacation as we extend our stay & take our kiddo's. One of my siblings lives by the one we drive to so they take our kids for the weekend for us. Sure helps!
We have seminar/rallies every 2-3 months. A lot of our meetings with our upline Diamond are free.
5a. The $ amount changes. We average 450-500 pv a month.
5b. Spent more. Here's why: I had no budget & shopped as I needed products. Therefore, I (like MOST Americans) fell victim to impulse purchases. I always bought more than I intended. Including basic groceries.
When we first got in this "business", out of curiosity, I gathered ALL of our receipts for the month from places like Target, Walmart, Cub Foods (local grocery chain), Snyder Drugs, Walgreens, convenience stores such as Super America, etc. I added up all of our consumables & non-perishable foods. I was SHOCKED! It was a LOT of money! Plus, we smoked & drank lots of pop at the time - since then, we've quit - yeah!!! ;-) Now I'm on Ditto & I check it every month just to make sure we're only buying what we use. Just like we would if we went to Walmart or the grocery store.
Are we using products we didn't use before? Heck yeah! We're supplementing with Nutrilite products. I took a mulit plus some calcium & some vitamin C before this biz. I can give you tons of personal testimonies just from consuming the Nutrilite supplements on a regular basis. We also never drank energy drinks before. However, we did drink pop, sugared boxed juices, energy teas (husband), coffee. Now, it's pretty much XS, water, oj & milk. We've gotten much healthier.
I used to use the Mary Kay skin care system, along with the moisturizers & cosmetics. Good stuff. I used to sell it. So did my mom.
But, quite frankly, it's not nearly the quality of Artistry. They're not even in the same league. Anyway, I use all Artistry products now.
I know you didn't ask the question about how many times I used to go to the store per week - you know, how many hours did I spend there? Well, I go ONCE a week now! I didn't like it then and I certainly don't like it now! I get the heebie jeebies when I have to spend too much time at a Walmart or a grocery store. ;-)
Hope that answers your questions Rara!
Anon
Drew and Joecool,
I have spelled out my income and expenses several times in the forum as well as the archives in this blog. You're welcome to PM me privately in the forums or look under my previous posts.
My income isn't the issue here. I've asked "george" specifically what his expenses were so that there wouldn't be a chance of putting any kind of a "spin" on things.
I am not sure what the relation of being "core" has to do with one's income statement as every business is different.
Anon "JC,
I've not seen it on this particular blog HOWEVER, I HAVE seen it laid out specifically for YOU on other blogs in the past. Sorry but I'm not going to spend my time trying to go back & find them. If I think of where they're at, I'll find them & do a cut & paste for you."
Joe> Well, this is the most popular blog........ Jeopardy music plays...
Michael> " I am not sure what the relation of being "core" has to do with one's income statement as every business is different. "
Joe> Is has a lot to do with expenses when you have upine like I had. Buy 5-7 extra tapes per week in addition to standing order. If your downline quots, you are required to buy their standing order. You need to do 150-200 PV as a single. Buy extra function tickets (non refundable) as an incentive to sponsor people.
Being that I'm not a professional, full time blogger...I may have mixed my terminology up. For that, I apologize.
Is this website also known as a BLOG?
What I meant to say was that I have not seen it under this particular topic. I HAVE seen it in the PAST under different TOPICS on THIS website.
Is that clear enough for you JOE?
Anon
JC,
To comment on your response to Michael:
Have you ever heard of the word NO? You know, like Nike says...JUST SAY NO! It's called common sense, people!
Good Lord! My upline told me to do it. They threatened me...whatever! IF YOU CANNOT AFFORD IT, IF IT DOESN'T MAKE SENSE FOR YOU....THEN DON'T DO IT!
If they threaten your life...go to the police! Or THEIR upline! Or swith Lines of Sponsorship!
I'm SO SICK of hearing MY UPLINE TOLD ME TO DO IT!!! And now it's THEIR fault?!?!??????
Like John Stossel says...GIVE ME A BREAK!!!
Oop! Correction: Nike says JUST DO IT!
The Anti Drug tag line is: JUST SAY NO!
Tee hee hee! My bad...sorry! :-)
Anon
Joecool,
Can you provide proof that you were contracturally required to purchase the tools or was it merely suggested?
I've asked my upline several times to show me where it's a requirement to purchase tools to participate, so far they haven't produced the documentation, therefore I choose not to participate in SOT or functions. I believe that being core is more of a personal developement choice, not a business "requirement".
Also,
I have to agree with Anon. Ron Puryear STRESSES that if you cannot participate, then DON'T! Focus on getting more retail clients. Cash flow your business first. If you can't afford it, don't do it. He's stressed this several times at functions.
@Joe
is that your only reason that this business doesnt work/sucks? Cuz you stupidly and blindly followed your upline -_-. Great...Like anon said. Say no. Not that hard really.
Anon> "JC,
To comment on your response to Michael:
Have you ever heard of the word NO? You know, like Nike says...JUST SAY NO! It's called common sense, people!
Good Lord! My upline told me to do it. They threatened me...whatever! IF YOU CANNOT AFFORD IT, IF IT DOESN'T MAKE SENSE FOR YOU....THEN DON'T DO IT!
If they threaten your life...go to the police! Or THEIR upline! Or swith Lines of Sponsorship!
I'm SO SICK of hearing MY UPLINE TOLD ME TO "
JOE> Did I ever say it was my upline's fault that I purchased items? Did I say I coudn't afford it?
GIVE ME A BREAK.
I understand that tools are optional. My sponsor was a trusted friend. When a trusted friend tells you tools are optional but so is success. No one has ever gone diamond without the teaching system. Serious business owners consume tools like food. Tools are the lifeline to your business success.
Those kinds of statements make it pretty tough for a new and excited IBO to say no to purchasing tools.
You supporters can deny it all you want but I'm certain it's happening in more groups than you know.
Can any of you supporters provide proof of:
1. You actually made a profit
2. That you profited because of the tools/teaching system.
Christian said:"is that your only reason that this business doesnt work/sucks? Cuz you stupidly and blindly followed your upline -_-. Great...Like anon said. Say no. Not that hard really."
No, it's not the only reason that there are problems with this biz, but it is a big one. We said no to our upline (Diamonds) on SOT and they stopped communicating with us (no more Kates passed down so we would know where and when his board plans, nuts and bolts and other meetings were). There is a huge amount of pressure to submit to upline counsel, that is one of the problems. Fortunately, we didn't take the worst of the advice and did not foreclose our house and declare bankruptcy so that we could continue to send money upline for tools and functions. But we bought into the functions and tools for 11 years before that because these "mentors" of ours asked us to trust them and "invest" in our business. How do you say no to someone who is advising you, supposedly, because they want the best for you?
Then why not go to a different LOS? I havent gone to any major function, yet im still active and doing a good job..and i didnt recieve the silent treatment. So is my upline the same as his/yours? Isnt it also your fault for blindly following without looking around with an open-mind? One of my uplines said i shoudnt be in blogs like these -_-...i just said whatever =p. Cuz whether he likes it or not, prospects will find blogs like these and i might as well know about it
Welp, in the end of the day..its the ibo's fault. I stands for Independent right? Well, its your choice to quit or not. If not, then its your choice to stick with the same LOS/System or change to a different one.
Welp..gtg. Im going to highschool -_-..one of my guys want to give his friends some of the xs/trim bars (and a catalogue to a teacher or two ^.^). This is after school ofcourse..im still following the rules =p. Major points there
Christian,
It never occurred to us to change LOS as we had a personal relationship with our upline before the business, that's how we got involved. How would we go about picking a new LOS? Everyone is going to tell us what we want to hear. Also, you have to go inactive for 6 months to switch LOS, which we did consider when we got cut off. In the end we discovered many things that were lies (system profits, divorces, lawsuits, etc.) and decided that changing LOS would not solve any of these issues and that the pressure to submit and participate in the system would just start all over again with someone new. Looking back, I can see now that we were not thinking for ourselves at the time because we had let upline make all of our decisions for us (see the forum for an in-depth discussion on this).
I have never heard upline say "If you can't afford it, don't do it." I heard, "Do whatever it takes to get to the functions and be on SOT" or "Sell your TV to get there", etc. But NEVER "don't do it, if you can't afford it".
Well, i think its more like. If you cant afford it, find a way to afford it. But if you cant/dont want to do it, then dont. Welp, maybe you should come meet my uplines ;) =p
Christian,
Sorry if you've already mentioned this elsewhere, but what system are you in (WWDB, BWW, N21)? Who is your upline Diamond?
TD & JC,
Like Christian said: if you can't afford it, find a way. Working a LITTLE retail will get you a LONG way! People aren't willing or they're scared. That's NOT the fault of the business, the upline, or the system.
It's YOUR fault for blindly following your upline's suggestions when you shouldn't have. It was irresponsible both, on your part, as well as your upline. DO NOT BLAME THE ENTIRE BUSINESS OR THE LOS'S FOR YOUR MISTAKES!!!
I had a job where I had the Branch Manager & the top rep hit on me. The Branch Manager hinted that my job would get better "if you know what I mean." I trusted him. Up until that moment. I wanted my job to get better. It was my only source of income. However, my common sense, my sense of morality, values, ethics etc. screamed "get out of here"! So, I did. In as professional of a way as possible. I quit. I looked for other association. I took responsibility for my own actions and didn't blame anyone else.
This business, like everything else in life, requires COMMON SENSE!
Thanks,
Anon
P.S. GEORGE??????? Where are you GEORGE?????
Anon,
So it’s a mistake to be on SOT, go to functions and submit to your upline? Gee thanks, for clearing that up. I hope you share this bit of wisdom with your group. I did retail quite a bit, but I was not able to move enough products to cover expenses of the system. I was the Artistry queen and I knew much about all our other products too, but the pricing always got in the way of me moving more volume through retail.
You said:” It's YOUR fault for blindly following your upline's suggestions when you shouldn't have. It was irresponsible both, on your part, as well as your upline. DO NOT BLAME THE ENTIRE BUSINESS OR THE LOS'S FOR YOUR MISTAKES!!!”
Don’t tell me about what was right, wrong or whose fault it was for anything I experienced, you don’t know me, my upline or the details of my experience. Don’t you dare tell me what I can or should feel about this business, these are my feelings and thoughts about what I know about WWDB. You can have yours too, but don’t tell me how to feel. You might notice that we did NOT take the advice of upline to foreclose and declare bankruptcy; instead we got off the system. How’s that for taking responsibility?
Regarding your job example of the sexual harassment you encountered, you had a responsibility to report him, lest he continue his behavior with someone else. Who’s fault was the problem in this scenario? Not yours, HIS. What he did was wrong and HE is the one that should have reaped the consequences. You changed your place of employment as a solution for yourself and that’s fine too, but it was not your fault, it is his fault that you had to look for employment elsewhere.
@TD
Im with WWDB. No idea who my upline Diamond is, nor does it matter -_-. I listen to the advice of everyone..and make my own decision. Whatever happens then is my fault..good or bad.
Who said its a mistake to be on SOT, going to functions or giving a counsel sheet to your upline? Heres the common sense..(most people have common sense..yet its uncommon =p)
Some people can afford SOT, likes SOT
Some people can afford SOT, doesnt like SOT (like me)
Some people cant afford SOT, likes SOT
Some people cant afford SOT, doesnt like SOT
Pick one, and make a move. Yo8 dont like it..dont buy it. You like it, cant afford it..do some retail.
Going to functions? I want to, but cant..cuz im an immigrant and my parents wont give me my passport cuz were applying for citizenship. Counsel Sheet? Heard of it..never done it..so no comments.
...got it? I hope your younger than me..cuz if you arent, your being beat by a 20 year old =p
fyi: You think it matters what goes on with you, your upline or your LOS? You dont like it..pack and leave. Thats another good (kinda) thing about this business, YOUR INDEPENDENT. I dont think people with jobs have much of a choice if they can switch from one dept to another, or just decide to quit (and keep their current lifestyle). LOL, cuz i did it. I just quit on the spot, no regrets whatsoever..reason? I dont feel like working on december
Just wanna add. I have a 17year old who registered couple weeks ago. He did 300pv in 2weeks (personal+family+some friends). I just went to his highschool(YEAP HIGHSCHOOL) and met up with his friends and handed out some drinks. Met a couple of his teachers too. Repeat..he is 17 years old. The youngest i know so far thats making atleast 100k is 21years old. Somewhere between me dodging and throwing snowballs (..highschool..) i have a feeling hell make it by 19 or 20. If not 100k, atleast 70k.
Im both sad..and happy..cuz im done by 22-23. Hes done by 19-20. And my sister (15) already has clients and some people in her namelist..if done right..shes done by 18 or 19..Shes just turning legal and shes retired..you know how odd that feels? -_-
Note: Still following rules. My sister isnt registered, her clients go through me and i pay her the retail and bonus
Note2: Teenagers and kids pockets/wallets are directly connected to their parents.. lol..you dont need to do marketing courses to figure that one out -_-
I say it’s a mistake to be on SOT. If you really want this biz, you don’t need 24/7 motivation, you’re already motivated to make a living at whatever is your chosen vehicle. If you keep the independent attitude you have, you’ll be fine. However, watch for the types of things that happened to myself and others, that’s all I’m saying. I was with WWDB for 11 years, so I know that this sort of control and manipulation creeps up over time. I didn’t have the benefit of the internet to help me realize that upline has an ulterior motive to keep me on the system. I believed them when they said it was just there to help me and grow my business.
I’m older than you yes, but life is not a race, you’re not going to “beat” me. I have so much more free time and money now and I’m so much happier than when we were in the business. I’m content with what I have and who I am, probably for the first time in my life.
Good luck to you and be careful about who you trust.
anon> "It's YOUR fault for blindly following your upline's suggestions when you shouldn't have. It was irresponsible both, on your part, as well as your upline. DO NOT BLAME THE ENTIRE BUSINESS OR THE LOS'S FOR YOUR MISTAKES!!!"
Joe> Who is blaming? These are our personal experiences. This is what happened to me. I post it here so prospects can see what happened and avoid it. But ultimately, upline teaches this system to make themselves money, not the downline. Why would they want you to go diamond? there would be less tools money for the ones at the top if everyone went diamond.
And BTW, what good is it to switch LOS when they all promote and push tools as being necessary to success?
"I'm SO SICK of hearing MY UPLINE TOLD ME TO DO IT!!! And now it's THEIR fault?!?!??????"
...and I am sick of upline's who apply subtle pressure to their downlines and then wash their hands of all responsibility. Not to mention IBOs like you who come here and absolve them as well. It just simply amazes me how some of these systems pump up these uplines but neither the uplines nor IBOs like you want to hold them to any higher degree of responsibility. Very sick indeed.
anon: "(who said it was the greatest???) )
me: Casey Combden - period, period, period.
It's on the dateline expose.
And I'm sure that Combden is a higher pin than you.
This is the "leadership" in Quixtar speaking.
anon> "It's YOUR fault for blindly following your upline's suggestions when you shouldn't have. It was irresponsible both, on your part, as well as your upline. DO NOT BLAME THE ENTIRE BUSINESS OR THE LOS'S FOR YOUR MISTAKES!!!"
When somebody gets scammed, clearly the parties involved are responsible. That is obvious. I don't think anyone is going to disagree with you on that.
But the entire business and the LOS are also certainly responsible. Even if the abuses are not widespread (as q* apologists claim). Until the offenders are publicly penalized, this bad culture of abuse will only spread, by duplication.
I don't buy tools, but if I went diamond, i'd want people buying my tools. Hey, gotta make money some how, right?
If you dont buy any tools..good luck even reaching diamond..lol
TD,
First of all, you need to chill out. No one said it's a mistake to be on SOT, go to functions, read & counsel. If that's what you got out of what I wrote...then, you soooooo didn't get it!
TD, JC & Balaji,
Here it is: be CORE. It is a PROVEN recipe. There is TRUTH to the consistent input of positive, encouraging, uplifting, motivating, teaching, mentoring input through cd's, association (functions/meetings) and books! It's proven. By who? By successful people all over the world for centuries! Ever read a success book or hear a motivational/teaching cd? A general one. You know, like Zig Ziglar. There are HUNDREDS pumped throughout corporations all over the world! WWDB, BWW, etc. are not the first to promote professional & personal development through these mediums.
Now, my point is this: I have experienced MANY people who told me that they wanted to own their own franchise & they wanted to reach certain goals they had set. We reviewed CORE with them & they agreed. They knew going in, what it all entailed. Then, a month, a week, a day, 3 months, 6 months, a year into it and *POOF* they're gone! Or they start with the excuses of why they can't go to a meeting or be on SOT that week. You'd laugh at some of the LAME excuses we've heard! We would counter with options. You know, we'd loan them SOT. We'd offer to retail with them. We'd love them through all the no-show's, the excuses, the unreturned phone calls.
Here's the bottom line: if they want to change what they're getting out of life, then they need to be willing to change what they're doing. MOST PEOPLE are NOT WILLING!!! Not because it's too hard....it's because they're NOT WILLING! Period. That's it.
Drew,
I'm not defending ANY irresponsible or unethical behavior of Diamonds. I said in a previous comment that if the upline is pushing the tools on downline who are clearly having financial difficulties, then that's irresponsible of the upline.
I thought YOU of all the critics, would understand the concept of taking personal responsibility for your own actions.
Rocket,
WHO is Casey Combden? I'm referring to the fact that no one on this particular post commented that Quixtar is the GREATEST biz opp in the world. That's clearly a subjective statement.
anon,
I never said you were defending the behavior, I said you were absolving them of responsibility. I thought you of all IBOs would see that.
Many former IBOs (such as myself) take responsibility for the decisions we made, however we also realize the pressure that was applied by our uplines leading us to believe that without the purchase of tapes, books, tickets, etc we were doomed to failure. All I am saying is that when an upline is put in a position of mentorship and they tout the sale of books, tapes, etc all day they bear responsibility as well, and are all too often wrongly absolved of that by IBOs like yourself.
Joecool,
"Can any of you supporters provide proof of:
1. You actually made a profit
2. That you profited because of the tools/teaching system."
I am still waiting to hear from good ol "George" about his tools expenses...
Anon> "TD, JC & Balaji,
Here it is: be CORE. It is a PROVEN recipe. There is TRUTH to the consistent input of positive, encouraging, uplifting, motivating, teaching, mentoring input through cd's, association (functions/meetings) and books! It's proven. By who? By successful people all over the world for centuries! Ever read a success book or hear a motivational/teaching cd? A general one. You know, like Zig Ziglar. There are HUNDREDS pumped throughout corporations all over the world! WWDB, BWW, etc. are not the first to promote professional & personal development through these mediums. "
Joe> Then where are all the diamonds? Why are the same speakers on stage year after year? I would guess the amount spent on tools by CORE IBOs exceed the amount of PV/BV generated by most of these IBOs.
It's a conflict of interest to have your upline (paid consultants) advising you to buy their tools when they are making a significant portion of their income from these tools.
Does your upline advise you to buy certain books at Barnes and Noble because it's cheaper than buying it from upline? I asked that and my direct told me all tools must be purchased from upline. Another example of upline abuse.
Yes, I know I didn't have to but when you are following the "Advice" of someone who has a "vested interest" in my success, not to follow would be foolish right?
Drew,
What do you mean that we "absolved" our upline?
Yes Drew, please show me where I "absolved" upline or upline Diamonds of irresponsible behavior? In fact Drew, I've clearly stated the opposite.
Joecool> "Can any of you supporters provide proof of:
1. You actually made a profit
2. That you profited because of the tools/teaching system."
Anon> Joe, go back a little bit & you'll find where I responded to Rara's request. Simple & straightforward. It's all there.
Also Joe, when was the last time you attended a function? I see new diamonds at every single one! Also, new Emeralds, new Ruby's & new Platinums.
By the way JC, it's CHEAPER to get our books & cd's through upline. Man, you need to get up to speed!!! ;-)
Night all!
Anon
Anon,
You have made many claims here and you have yet to prove a single point.
Yes, maybe George should be called out, but what about many others including yourself who made claims here that are unproven?
I find it interesting that IBOs come here and tell people that they don't have to listen to their upline, and then you have Quixtar diamonds, supposedly more successful that these IBOs, saying you should never question your upline but submit to them even if you don't understand and agree. They never did, and look at where they are now (diamond).
You also have diamonds, including Bill Britt, saying something like "99% submission is rebellion." (Probably not the exact quote, but the point was that 100% submission is absolutely necessary.)
You hear diamonds whose success you aspire to emulate saying that one of the 3 powers is the power of submission.
So whom do we listen to? These IBOs who are probably platinum at the most, or a Crown Ambassador who is in charge of the system these same IBOs promote?
Secondly, I find it fascinating that system IBOs do not see the glaring inherent conflict of interest that is present when the person ardently promoting the system obtains a significant portion of his/her income from the system. Don't they wonder why the system hasn't produced more 2-5 year diamonds - in fact, just more diamonds? Hmmm. I wonder.
Rara, why is it that you seem to have so much trouble understanding that there are more than 4000 people who have reached Diamond and above, and that an awful lot of them have nothing to do with Bill Britt, so it has no relevance at all what he says.
If I hadn't gone googling I never ever would have heard of Bill Britt. He is completely and utterly irrelevant to how I run my business. Given, apart from on forums like here, I have never heard of the man, and given the "leaders" I get advice to don't say anything remotely like "submit", why on earth do you think Diamonds saying things like that have anything at all to do with me and my business?
Oh, and we don't wonder why there's not more diamonds. We know why. It's hard. But then, why would you think making the equivalent of US$49000/mth (after tax) would be easy?
JOE! You're not paying attention!!! It's all there! Go back & read it! I have nothing else to say to you!
insider,
I will address what you said later, but you didn't address the whole conflict of interest thing.
Anon,
Nice dodge. Still no proof.
Insider, I have heard many IBOs talk about duplicating upline. I also heard that. No need to reinvent the wheel. Copy upline. Upline's success was due to tools.......
Anon said:
"TD,
First of all, you need to chill out. No one said it's a mistake to be on SOT, go to functions, read & counsel. If that's what you got out of what I wrote...then, you soooooo didn't get it!"
I need to chill, huh? That's pretty funny coming from you, Anon. You seem to be a pretty angry person toward anyone who disagrees with this business. I know you didn't say it's a mistake to be on SOT, I was being sarcastic as that is counsel from our upline we should have ignored too.
You have a very condescending tone toward your downline that decide that this business may not be for them and opt out of the system. They should be able to make their own choices without being berated online by someone who is supposed to help them. You know, really loving your downline doesn’t mean just to their face.
Michael> "I also really disagree with Joecool's response that odds of 1 in 90 million is much better than 1 in 240 or even 1 in 14,000. You might have somewhat better odds investing in real estate or stocks, but in a lotto ticket? Get serious."
Joecool> I didn't say the lotto was better odds, I just said if you keep buying tickets you will eventually win the lotto (or die trying). Just like how if you keep buying tapes, reading books and attending functions, you will eventually be a diamond.
Michael,
I don't think you want to go down this road again, last time we had this discussion on my blog you went stomping off mad because I was asking you too many questions.
anon,
When you say you are sick of people blaming their uplines, you are in effect absolving them of their responsibility. Fact is there are a great many uplines out there who deserve to have blame placed on them, and if you have stated the opposite then you would not have stated you were sick of them being blamed.
...and this is why most adults are either boring =p. Anyone notice the arguement is just going around and around? Drew/TD..grow up..really..
You decided to follow your upline blindly..thats your fault. Im doing great, i followed SOME of what my upline said. It works great for my upline..it doesnt work great for me. Isnt that logical and realistic? What works for someone might not work for someone else?
And alla ya are just argueing about upline this, upline that, diamond said this, diamond said that. OMG GROW UP AND MAKE UP YOUR OWN MIND. It worked for your upline. Listen, listen again, try it out, listen, make your own.
CORE is proven success. But if your core, dont you think youll also realize that the instructions and advice are kinda...general? It wont always fit you. You gotta find a way thatll fit you and your personality.
IF IT DOESNT WORK FOR YOU. TOO BAD. It works for others. If thats your reason to quit cuz it doesnt work for you (the method taught at the cds/functions), then you can just compare it to rushing in to complete a project within a very strict deadline which seemed impossible..even though some people have done it..
..
....
......
Jeez, alla ya need to sit back, chill, pass the bud.
PS: My upline says dont waste your money on gambling/lotterry, but i wont $50 =p
"You decided to follow your upline blindly..thats your fault."
Yeah we know, we counseled with our uplines, did what they told us we needed to do to be successful in this business and that was all our fault.
Yet another sucker IBO who thinks he has all the answers to the lives of former IBOs while he stays comfortable behind his keyboard. LOL!!
sucker IBO? Im a successful IBO, unlike you whos a failure IBO..if you were a failure platinum..then thats a different story (..lame joke from one of the cds -_-)
Welp, reason im behind this keyboard? im jobless and im proud of it =p..lol
If the kingpins proclaim that the lavish lifestyle they live is because of Quixtar income (and they do)but in reality 80% or more of thir profit is from tools (and it is), the the kingpins are financially raping their downline and it is Fraud. Dean Kosage is a great example of someone who "retired" in his 20s because of Quixtar. However, many years later as an emerald, he is in debt and 50% of his income comes not from Quixtar but from tapes & functions. And that is his own admission in his ddivorce court papers. So on stage he is retired but in his divorce papers we discover he is working 4 nights a week showing the plan, flying to functions on the weekends & upset because he is losing $15,000 a year because he can't speak at large group functions. So you can choose to believe what he says on stage or what he says in a legal declaration under the threat of perjury. And yes, they are quite different. One of them is a lie. For those of you (Anon, Insider et al.) who want to believe the kingpins stage performances, go for it.
fyi..if you already, why are you still argueing about your own faults? Doesnt that mean your argueing that your stupidly followed someone blindly?..again..and again..and again?
Ever watched the Simpsons? Theres an episode where Lisa compares Bart to a Hamster. Lisa had a muffin thats connected to a current. Bart would constantly try and get and eat the muffin..again...and again. The hamster tried once, then realized and took out the cables, and took the muffin.
Your just like Bart on that episode -_- ..sorry for the lack of better analogy..but i am 20..i coudnt find an anology with south park or futurama..or bondogons for that matter..or bondokuns..something like that
Do i really have to put an email address??
Anyways, care to source out the Deans papers? Also, how is he losing 15k/year? Thats more than 1k/mo expenses
rara, the same "conflict of interest" exists with the Amway products. Upline wants you to use/sell more of them 'cause that way they make more money. May or may not be in your best interest. Same "conflict of interest" happens at work. Boss wants you to work as hard as possible for as little as possible. May or may not be in your best interest.
This is one of the reasons why it's not a good idea for below platinum to be able to earn profit on tools. They'll have plenty of experience of using them and whether they are of value or not, without any conflict of interest. So you'll get their "advice" on it as well.
Anyone noticed a common thread amongst pro-IBOs and anti-former-IBOs? The "I'm happy and I'm making money" IBOs are all saying something along the lines of "I get advice from upline then make my own decisions, like all IBOs should".
The "anti-former I lost lots of money IBOs" all seem to be from the school of "I did everything my upline said without question or thinking about it!"
There's a well known saying - "treat it like a business, it works like a business"
Which of the two groups are acting like business owners?
Which of the two groups are acting like employees?
Is it any surprise which group thinks the business works and which group thinks it doesn't?
Welp, im off to do a 1 on 1 =), Maybe hell be my 8th leg ^.^.
"CORE is proven success." This is a lie. It that were true, then there would be people who HAVE BEEN CORE THAT WEREN'T SUCCESSFUL that have expressed that on this blog and voiced their frustrations about this lie that was once told to them.
More believable would be, " CORE can be helpful to success."
Insider
The "anti-former I lost lots of money IBOs" all seem to be from the school of "I did everything my upline said without question or thinking about it!"
Who said no one questioned or thought about it? I did question my upline and I got responses like this "well Greg Duncan and Ron Puryear thought it was a good idea but if you think you know better than they do, go ahead and do what you want".
You can replace Ron Puryear with Britt, Dornan or any other big pin.
Successful? Do you define that from just you or your group? What is your pin level and group money numbers? What is your annual income from your success? I love when these claims are made, now let's see if you can put up.
insider> Is it any surprise which group thinks the business works and which group thinks it doesn't?
Joe> For every successful IBO, there is a group of IBOs collectively losing money, unless it's a rare group that focuses on retail sales.
Christian says: "but ive never been to a big function And ive been trying to find a way to get out of the stupid SoT cuz seriously, i havent listened to any of them at all."
"Its just that i dont see the benefit of the SOT. Only time ive heard of BOM is in this forums"
Then later says: "If you dont buy any tools..good luck even reaching diamond..lol"
I guess any tools does not include SOT, BOM, or functions. So basically get on Kate and Go Diamond LOL!!
Christian> "Im Core too..but ive never been to a big function =p. And ive been trying to find a way to get out of the stupid SoT cuz seriously, i havent listened to any of them at all. But you do need to be core to make the business work, its just that sometimes..theres small expenses that i dont really see as needed"
Joe> Dude, you're not CORE. If you miss a CORE step, you're not CORE. In your case, you're not teachable either so that's strike 2 against you.
Missed this post earlier:
Christian says:"Welp, only evidence i have is 2 of my uplines going past 50k/year and stuff. So, ill just say i have no idea(with dateline and all that stuff) except the living proof (which is those 2 uplines).
In the end, results prove otherwise.
Sure, Summer 08. If i dont reach that mark, i quit. But then again, at my current pace, ill reach it. How about yourself? Whats your problem with the business? That you think that everyone making atleast 100k is making most of their money off tools? If so..prove it before you try and corner me -_-
Fyi: Only tools ive bought for a month is that stupid SOT. Yet im at a profit (as i only have 3 expenses, site, kate, bizinator). I doubt bus pass is an expense >."
Let me explain how this works since you are having trouble. You first made this claim:
"Its not like more than 50% of their money came from cds."
I asked you to prove how you know that to be true because it is my belief that you don't know. Your inability to backup your statement only solidifies that belief. At least I can point to a distributor on Dateline quoting 75% comes from tools, and the many former Diamonds and Emeralds who say the majority of their income came from tools.
The best you have come up with is your two uplines who only you are claiming make that much money. Also unless they have shown you their income statements showing where that money came from then it's useless.
You have come on this blog claiming to be a successful IBO yet you still can't get to a function because mommy and daddy won't let you get a visa. Do you still live with mom and dad?
If so I don't think bragging about being without a job and proud of it is the same as not having a job because you are making so much in your business. My bet is that my latest contract I signed in my side business is worth more then your business on an annual basis, but we will know if you ever put up your numbers.
JC,
I apologize if I misunderstood what you're asking for. I thought you've been asking for what my income & expenses were. I laid that out in an earlier comment a few days ago for Rara.
If that's not what you are asking to see, could you please clarify? Thanks.
To all critbots:
You sit & whine & complain & moan & point fingers when we IBO's don't show you "enough" information or the "right proof" (whatever that is).
Yet all you guys do is 'dodge bullets' about your own choices, decisions & actions when you were IBO's. I think you all need to clean up your own words & actions before you point any more fingers.
Especially George. Anybody notice that he has strangely disappeared since we started asking him for specific numbers??? Coincidence? I think not.......
And Bob. You've thrown a LOT of accusations out about the Diamonds' personal lives (Kosage) and their financial statements. How the heck do YOU know? Proof, please???
Thanks!
Anon
"You've thrown a LOT of accusations out about the Diamonds' personal lives (Kosage) and their financial statements. How the heck do YOU know? Proof, please???"
There are all kinds of documents available about Kosage's Emerald finances due to his divorce during that time. Check out the court docs at http://www.amquix.info/kosage.html
Anon,
Tell you what since you think we all whine and complain and then dodge when asked questions I will offer you this opportunity. Call me at 1-775-908-9383 or e-mail me at truth@quixtarinsideout.com and leave me a message as to when you would like to have your opportunity to grill me on my choices, decisions, and actions when I was an IBO.
We can set it up and I will let you ask me all kinds of questions about my time in Quixtar and I will even post it front page on this blog. You want to address all of us and make that kind of statement? Well I just called, so now what say you?
I think anon is mistaking us sharing our personal experiences as complaining and whining.
Although I found out that my upline (WWDB) was unethical and certainly contributed to some of the difficulties I had in the business, I don;t believe I have ever held my upline as solely responsible for my decision to leave the business.
That being said, I don't think they are 100% blameless either.
Kosage divorce documents indicate he made stuff all on "tools" by the way, contrary to all the claims.
Meh, whatever. Believe or say what you want, im a successful ibo with succesful downlines (except for 2 -_-). If im 100% core? hell no. But im core enough to be successful. Or maybe because i acted on it...
Yeap, i still live with my parents. Im also paying some rent. My numbers? ive already posted it in the past blogs..jeez..lotsa times..
Anyways, after going to a party, i met this rreeaallllyy sharp and smart dude at the bus stop. 22years old, knows stuff, knows people, very entrepreneur minded, everything. Welp..i was high (..no surprise..) so i just used some of form and listened to him. Instead of making him want to meet my upline and stuff..he made such an impression that i want him to meet my upline..anyways..in the end, got his number, hes got mine (my cards are missing) and he gave me the times hes available..
...i sense a potential 1year platinum ^.^!!!
Christian,
That is precisely what I thought. Love to talk the talk but then go to the "whatever" when asked to compare what you think is success to actual success. I suppose when you don't have a standard to compare to you can be successful no matter what.
Your lack of providing your numbers only futher leads me to conclude that I will make more money in the first two weeks of this month net then you will gross the whole year of '06 in Quixtar. Not too bad for a failure eh?
Drew,
I'd be more than happy to have a conversation with you. Absolutely. I will call when I get a chance. It's not just you, buddy. So don't go thinkin' I'm dodging a phone call. I do not EVER have much time for phone conversations. I'm a stay-at-home mom. If I worked outside the home....that'd be a different situation. But, I'll call when I can.
Thanks for the offer of a real, personal conversation. That way, we can better understand each other.
Anon
......-_-
I said whatever to this.
[Joe> Dude, you're not CORE. If you miss a CORE step, you're not CORE. In your case, you're not teachable either so that's strike 2 against you.]
Atleast keep up will you? I already said my numbers are in one of the blogs. Ill post it later, i gotta go. Saturday with my gf, go watch stand up comedy, and somewhere in the middle, call that prospect i mentioned and call up some guys.
[Your lack of providing your numbers only futher leads me to conclude that I will make more money in the first two weeks of this month net then you will gross the whole year of '06 in Quixtar. Not too bad for a failure eh?]
You sure?
Im have eagle volume without the eagle quo. I already mentioned..i havent gone to functions..thats one of the quos. Im basically somewhere near anon
-----
Now, if your working. *Cough* back to work. If not, enjoy your saturday cuz it doesnt last long =)
@Drew
And if your not working and your gonna spend your time here argueing that it doesnt work (..omg..it doesnt work for you so it shoudnt work for others..ego much?), you need a life dude.
Later, like tomorrow later
Christian,
I know you need to resort to calling on egos and telling others to get a life when your percieved success gets measured up against a higher standard, so don't worry I won't hold it against you.
But I must comment on your claim of this business working. Again it's a matter of perception. You see the guy at the top with the nice home, fast car, vacations, etc. and you say it worked for him.
I see the masses at the bottom who are buying books, tapes, tickets, Kate, lit packs, etc. because that guy told them it is what they need to do to have what he has and I realize for this business to work for anyone there has to be a mass of people under them who it is not working for.
It then becomes apparent that success in Quixtar means hurting more people financially then you will ever help. If that is the kind of success you are proud to have fine with me, but I would rather have my success based on something more ethical.
It's a matter of preference I guess.
Anon,
Good to hear, I look forward to the call.
Anon,
I am happy to provide proof that Dean Kosage bragged on stage of being "financially independent and retired" while in his official court declaration he showed that he made half his income on tools and was in debt. Go to amquix.info; click on new pages; scroll down to July 3, 2004, click on the story and read Dean Kosage's own official declaration and reply declaration. Yes Anon, it IS there and it is His declaration. And yes, he was bragging on stage of being retired and financially independent while his official court declaration shows he was making half his money on tools and was in debt. He was either lieing on stage or in his official court declaration. The proof is there. The question is, "Will you admit it?"
Thanks Bob. I'll check it out.
You said: "will you admit it?".
Admit what??? That Kosage told two different stories? Ok.
Bob, I know of people lying no matter the profession they're in. It doesn't make this a bad business opportunity.
Here it is as I see it:
1. You CAN make some good money working the Quixtar private franchising business opportunity.
2. You CAN do it part time.
3. The tools are optional.
4. The tools commission is a bonus when you reach a certain level. You are also required to earn that extra bonus through working the seminars/functions, hosting Diamonds, creating SOT, etc. The commission may be an option as well.
5. For us, it's a better option for our future finances than any other part time business or job option we've come across.
Thanks,
Anon
Anon> " The tools commission is a bonus when you reach a certain level. You are also required to earn that extra bonus through working the seminars/functions, hosting Diamonds, creating SOT, etc. The commission may be an option as well."
Joe> I know that's what uplines says, but lacking a written contract, how do you know if and when you qualify and if and how much you are to receive?
Anon> " The tools commission is a bonus when you reach a certain level. You are also required to earn that extra bonus through working the seminars/functions, hosting Diamonds, creating SOT, etc. The commission may be an option as well."
I'm not trying to be persnickety, I just don't get these sentences. (If it were coming from Christian, I'd understand, but you are much more well-written!) I understand that a commission is usually something you're compensated for by your performance. Usually it is something that is optional, like you say tools are optional. Is earning that bonus an option or requirement?
Also, if you are required to work a function, are you also obligated to pay for it, as well? You raised an entirely new group of questions for me.
This tools stuff is fascinating. My MIL mentioned to me lately that she has given my Sis in law (her upline) the power to sign her checks and has even given her one of her check books. This was all for the sake of the tools business. I didn't understand, but didn't ask because that would have been a negative thing to do.
Tools...fascinating...
BTW does anyone else have a hard time understanding what Christian is saying here, or is it just me??:
Christian:"i just used some of form and listened to him. Instead of making him want to meet my upline and stuff..he made such an impression that i want him to meet my upline.."
Anon,
I appreciate the spirit of your last comment. As you check out Kosage's story, read also what his wife declared as well as his downline emeralds, Matt & Carrie Simmons. Then I ask you to consider that I was at FED listening to David & Debbie Shores brag about their financial freedom & lavish lifestyle - only to discover they had not made a house payent in 9 months & their house was foreclosed on. There are many other examples in WWDB. My problem is that Puryear, Duncan et al know that these guys are lieing on stage & yet they still exhort and promote them. Furthermore, if you go to Cetalon.info, you will find that Greg Duncan's company Sarshela buys XS energy drinks from Logic Nutrition (owned by Duncan's friend) who buys them from XS. Duncan then sells them to Quixtar who then sells them to you. In other words, Duncan gets a ton of money from XS that has absolutely nothing to do with the Quixtar plan. He should be honest about that & admit that the vast majority of his lavish lifestyle is not the result of Quixtar success. Also, go to shapeupsettlement.com & you will discover that Alticor's Nutrilite division was providing the weight loss supplements for for Dr Phils weight loss shakes. These were being sold by of all places, Walmart, Target, etc. Nurtilite wound up paying a huge settlement because the products were shown to simply not work at "helping pear or apple shaped" people take control of their weight (as claimed). So I accept your desire to build a business. However, the company and the kingpins will likely continue to cause you to be challenged. I do with you the best.
Bob
Bob,
I tried researching your info at "Cetalon.info" however it wouldn't come up for me. I would really be interested in reading those reports. I appreciate you providing the link for the Dr.Phil settlement as I will be researching that as well. Thank you for being straight forward.
Michael,
Go to www.cetalon.info
Click on Cetalon vs. Josh Bradbury et al.
This is a lawsuit by Cetalon against Josh Bradbury (Logic Nutrition) and Greg Duncan (Sarshela). It is a $48 million lawsuit. Cetalon did not prevail but there are some very interesting revelations. Note the very last two pages - Exhibit F It shows that XS Energy is sold to Logic Nutrition for $8 a case. Logic Nutrition then sells it to Duncan for $11 a case. Then it goes through Quixtar & is $25 a case by the time it gets to the IBO. It looks to me that Duncan is making a fortune on XS not because of pv/bv, but because he is a middle man between XS and Quixtar. You can also go to the Orange County superior COurt website & look up case # 0cc17304. On the Dr. Phil thing, I find it interesting that Nutrilite is providing a nutritional weight loss concoction to be sold through Walmart, Target, etc which are typically railed on by the kingpins. Also, the nutrilite product was shown to certainly not be what its label claimed. Hope this helps.
Bob
BOB,
Wouldn't he get paid twice then? Also get PV/BV from the XS?
Michael,
Yes, he would get paid twice. However, the pv/bv income would be a tiny fraction of what he is making as the middleman "distributor". Sarshela is his and a handful of other kingpins company. Ofcourse, when he speaks at Quixtar/Amway functions, he won't talk about this tremendous income. He will continue to tell the thousands of IBOs it is all about Quixtar. Thay way they will keep buying CDS & going to functions. I did some research on FED and it is very easy to see that one FED gets another $1 million out of the pockets of the low IBOs and into the pockets of the kingpins. Anyway, there are there are 3 niddlemen between XS energy and the IBO. I thought Quixtar helped to eliminate the middleman.
Bob
Bob,
Thank you for sharing the links to the information you have referenced. I will check them out when I get a chance. This is a busy month!!! ;-) so, may not get to it for a little while. Interesting stuff....things that make you go hmmmmm....
IM,
Sorry about the confusion. Here's what I meant by those statements: if you want to get a "piece of the tools pie", then you need to work at the functions, make cd's & whatever else the system requires to run like a well-oiled machine. If you don't work in the system, I'm sure you don't get tools revenue/commission.
What I believe Christian to have meant by his statements what this: He "F.O.R.M.'ed" the prospect. This stands for Family, Occupation, Recreation & Message. This is a very simplistic way to teach people how to share this business opportunity or, their online mall, with others. Many people are not sure of where to start or what to say & so never say anything. Ron Puryear developed this simplistic method of teaching to help the "new IBO".
Also, what I believe Christian meant by his prospect meeting his upline was that instead of feeling like he SHOULD introduct the prospect, the prospect was so sharp that he was looking forward to introducing him to his upline.
Did I get that right, Christian?
Joe,
No. I do not have any written contract with details. Wonder if anything like that is 'down the pike'. Hmmmmmm.....
Thanks all,
Anon
Anon, remember, a written contract is binding while a wink and a handshake may not be.
Just got back home since sat -_-...going to sleep...
Anyways, Yeah anon, you got it 100% right. Its for new ibos, but it works great to start a conversation with strangers, even if not intended for prospecting. Not caring what the person thinks of you also works =p
Joecool,
"a written contract is binding while a wink and a handshake may not be"
Actually a verbal agreement is a binding contract in most states...
Michael,
Do you have a verbal contract?
JC: I know that's what uplines says, but lacking a written contract, how do you know if and when you qualify and if and how much you are to receive?
Michael: Actually a verbal agreement is a binding contract in most states...
The greater issue is not whether the contract is written or oral but whether it has sufficient details as to what is required from the IBO to qualify and the amount of commission to be received.
That being said, if it takes longer than a year to fulfill the requirements necessary to receive commission, the oral contract won't be binding as a matter of law...
it is as if you are arguing about how many angels can dance on the head of a pin. yet so many are destroyed by this insidious organization every day. sad sad sad
Joe Smith >yet so many are destroyed by this insidious organization every day. sad sad sad
Joecool> Yes it is, and what's sadder is the bunch of supporters who come here to justify it as a great business opportunity.
BestBuy will be taking over Circuit City, and then possibly Futureshop. Could you please tell these companies to not sign the contract cuz i dont think theyve heard your side of the story with this being a bad thing to get into...tell also the other companies in line causing the 3year waiting list.
If you dont, ill be happy to tell people that shop at best buy to just buy it from me. It then can be shipped to their house, or they can just pick it up with a voucher. Plus i have incentives...
...
.....
........
-_-
Joecool,
"Do you have a verbal contract?"
Of course not. In my experience, it's best to get EVERYTHING in writing. I am just saying most states will allow a verbal contract as a binding contract.
What kind of incentives do you have that make it worth my while to go through you? I'm just curious because I can just go over to Best Buy right now, buy something, bring it right home, and have it this afternoon, without waiting for delivery or for a voucher.
I'm sure an IBO can get PV/BV (something like that, I may not have the terms correct.) but first you have to spend $250 for roughly &175- $200 worth of stuff in the first place. THEN you get cretit for partner store stuff. Doesn't seem to make sense to me.
I also see why other businesses are willing to become partner stores. Why not? It draws them some more business. Can you verify the "waiting list" and explain why there even needs to be a waiting list in the first place?
Thanks,
Inquiringmind
Michael, what happens to IBOs who live in a State where a verbal contract is not binding?
My ongoing incentives are movie tickets and restaurant vouchers cuz i know people that can hook me up. I had amusement passes as incentives during summer. Im thinking of having videogames as incentives cuz i know some people in the gaming industry that can get me new games for $20-$25 (instead of 40-50)
Well, my guess is that theres a requirement to be a partner store since the partner store has to give out monthly pv/bv.
Incentives?
Joecool,
I think your asking the wrong questions here. Also, This is a post about being CORE, it has nothing to do with "contracts". But I degress,
All states enforce a verbal contract, however a judge has to rule on fairness of the contracts and what the circumstances were. After doing a bit of a google search, there are generally Three parts of a verbal contract.
Offer: The person making the offer in a verbal contract must communicate their intent to enter into a contract. A verbal contract is not considered valid if all parties do not agree to the terms of the offer. Also, verbal contracts are only valid for a specified period of time and not indefinitely.
Acceptance: A verbal contract is not valid until the offer is accepted. The acceptance of a verbal contract occurs when the person to whom the contract is offered voluntarily indicates agreement to its terms and conditions.
Consideration: In addition to an offer and acceptance, verbal contracts must contain consideration. This means that each side must give the other something of value for the agreement to be binding. In most verbal contracts, this is an exchange of money, such as a down payment. However, in some cases, it is not money but a promise that is exchanged.
an agreement made with spoken words and either no writing or only partially written. An oral contract is just as valid as a written agreement. The main problem with an oral contract is proving its existence or the terms. As one wag observed: "An oral contract is as good as the paper it's written on." An oral contract is often provable by action taken by one or both parties which is obviously in reliance on the existence of a contract. The other significant difference between oral and written contracts is that the time to sue for breach of an oral contract (the statute of limitations) is sometimes shorter. For example, California's limitation is two years for oral compared to four for written, Connecticut and Washington three for oral rather than six for written, and Georgia four for oral instead of 20 for written.
Incentives? Anybody? Anybody?...
I guess there aren't any incentives.
IM,
Christian answered you directly & immediately. I'd call those incentives. What would YOU call them?
Please go back & read what he wrote. Otherwise, you look a little silly. It may have simply been an innocent overlook on your part.
Anon
300 pv is the level we have reached in our business and the money we make from that pays for everything like books tapes fuctions local and long distance,and the only thing we did was buy the very same things from our selves that we would buy from our regular store. The biggest problem people have when building this type of business is they never take there first cicle serious if you make it work you know that this business works.It only costs 2500.00 per year to run this business and at 300 pv it pays for it all. When you look at the cost to run a web site on your own to have a domain on the first page you see is thousands of dollars so to have a web site through our business is very powerfull.
Arb "300 pv is the level we have reached in our business and the money we make from that pays for everything like books tapes fuctions local and long distance"
Joecool: Please explain how a $36 bonus check can cover books tapes and functions both local and long distance.
Oops! My bad. Thanks, Anon! And thanks, Christian. It's rare that you say something without backing it up. I had a blond moment.
It is interesting to read things on this blog. Unfortunately one of the drawbacks to being an IBO is the freedom to do or not do the things to be successful. If you have a JOB where they pay you a salary most companies have a training system which involves learning what you need to do to stay an asset for the company. The company typically pays for the cost. CORE represents the key steps to being a succesfull IBO, yes they do represent revenue streams and IBO's are encouraged to participate. Why? First you have to learn to be duplicatable, some day when you've worked hard (yes I said worked hard!) and you are a leader of a growing organization your income will depend on this just like your uplines is now. Second, if you have a good sponsor, he cares about your success, in return you should care about his. Last, this is truly an optional part of Quixtar, but one I follow. If you are not looking to grow as a person this is probably not the place for you, so continue playing powerball and working your JOB. To be a winner it takes discipline, desire, and constitution. That is what CORE strive to achieve for each IBO. Remember a quitter never wins and a winner never quits. I didn't work for you, quit whining and dashing the dreams of others.
300 pv bonus is more than what you are saying if you would get started and receive a 300 pv bonus cheque you would know that.The other thing is that we have customers and we get a cheque for the difference between wholesale and retail as with any business and the income from our business pays for everything that is one of the things i said to my wife that if this business does not pay for it's self we could not do it and we did what we were told and it worked that is my exsperince that is all I can tell you is what I have done.
ARB,
So how much do you make at 300PV?
And far do you have to travel to your functions?
Remember you must attend ALL functions!
David in Maryland
300 PV = 800 BV (approximate).
800 BV @ 6% = $48. If you have two downline who each did 100 PV and got back $8, that would leave you with $32. If you had one downline who did 100PV and got $8, you would have $40 left over.
So how (Arb) do you pay for your tools and functions with that money? Please explain because if it's true, many IBOs could benefit from having this information.
we have achieved 300 pv with our personal use and retail because that was the goal we set out to do. The way that our business pays for everything is the difference between wholesale and retail on our customers and our selves because that is what we were taught to do and yes we pay our selves the difference between wholesale and retail that just makes good business sense to do that,you are paying retail at the retail store anyway all this rolled into one at the end of the month we have made enough $$$ to pay for everything. The other ? was how far do we travel to fuctions 1 spokane 2 saltlake 3 saltlake and the 4 we have in canada and when you do what i did it will pay for it all.
@Joecool
...do you really need an answer for this or you really have no idea about this business (thus you shoudnt even have an opinion)
>Retail clients
>Stop robbing your own store
300pv: $84BV
Retail Profit: 268. Lets take 250
Bonus: 50.40
Total: 300
Payout to 2 100pv IBO's: $16.80
Net: 283.2. Lets take that as 280
280/month + Writeoffs of anywhere between 100-200+
Personally, my expenses run anywhere around $100 + SOT, so..i dont see a problem in this. But then again, my network is local and i use public transit
Allan,
OK so were do you live? How far is it for you to get to your functions? Do you drive? fly? carpool? rent a van?
All the functions I attended were in North Carolina,South Carolina,Florida,Tennessee,Kentucky.
All cost $100 for the ticket.
$25 for the room if you had 15 others in it with you.
So when I did my 300 each month it did not even come close to paying for all my tools and functions. But thats just me I guess you have it all figured out. And by the time you go Diamond you should be making in excess of 3 MIL a year.
David in Maryland
Christian,
According to quixtar, there is about 1 customer for every 4 IBOs. 300 PV will net you about $40 or so, depending on how many downline you have.
I'm wondering how that covers all the costs of tapes books and functions. You took the liberty of assuming this person made over $200 in retail sales. Although it is possible, it is unlikely.
What's more likely is this IBO is "implying" that his business pays for itself when in reality, we know that very few quixtar business do that.
If he is doing it, fine, why not reveal the secret so other IBOs can learn how to do it?
David,
That's CHEAP!!!!!!!!! You got all that wonderful teaching & motivation & association for only $41.00 per MONTH??????? If you did SOT, Book of Month(unlikely), Kate, etc., the TOTAL monthly expenses you should have had was MAYBE $110 or so. Not bad.
Did you show the plan? At LEAST once a week? Did you follow up? Did you buy from your own store?
Not likely. The system is proven. If you work it, it works.
ANON,
Well its been awhile since I have had a personal attack from you. Dont pass judgement on me about what I did and didnt do when I was involved. As far as tools I spent in excess of $1000 a month for almost the whole 4 1/2 years I was involved in Q*. So since you are the #1 IBO in WWDB. I ask once again why do you waste your valuable time here posting? Why arent you STP and following up? Remember book a meeting from a meeting. Anyway I am sure you will have some smart comeback to tell this broke J O B having loser.
David,
You must be mixing me up with another IBO. "Attacking" is not my style.
You however, seem to be "attacking" me with the wrong info.! That's just plain funny......;-)!!!
I'm soooo happy you posted your HUGE mistake for all to see!!! You spent over $1000.00 PER MONTH on tools?!?!?!?!?!?!? WHAT?!?!??!?!??!??!!?? WHY????????? For FOUR & A HALF YEARS?????????????
All the wonderful things I could write about this business opportunity could not have made a more positive impact than what you just confessed.
Thank you. :-)!!!
Anon
@joecool
1 for every 4IBOs? 4 active ibos or just 4 ibos? Well..my clients are my mom, my 2 sisters, my neighbours, my classmates, my xcoworkers (i didnt prospect them, i left them as clients), and lotsa people in the mall =)
...i think thats more than 1 -_-
@David
uh..dude..im just going to be nice ok? Your just stupid. How the hell can you spend $1000/mo on tools..when at the moment, theres around 350 cds. So if you were to buy them all, thats $3500. 1kx 50 (for easy counting) is 50k. What have you been spending on 50k on tools??
Well ANON, Christian and whoever else wants too read this.
I couldnt agree with you more. I was stupid for getting involved in Q* and buying TOOLS. My sponsor and uplines would show me there stockpile, so I stockpiled as well. I AGREE DUMB VERY DUMB. Oh well thats all over and done with. I wish you all good luck I am outta here no more posts from me:)
C-YA
Christian> @joecool
1 for every 4IBOs? 4 active ibos or just 4 ibos? Well..my clients are my mom, my 2 sisters, my neighbours, my classmates, my xcoworkers (i didnt prospect them, i left them as clients), and lotsa people in the mall =)
...i think thats more than 1 -_-
Joe> So when you add up your group's income and subtract system expenses, is there a profit? And do your family and friends buy stuff from you each month? If that's true, then good for you, it's not common.
As for the 1 customer for 4 IBOs, that's not my claim, that is from Quixtar.
Still waiting for a plausible explanation of how a 300PV business can fund all business expenses which include tapes books and functions, both local and major.
I think IBOs could truly learn an important business tip if the person who made the clai would verify it.
Frankly though, I think Allan is just faking it because he's not yet making it.
I have done what I am saying all you folks should do is go out and try it for you self instead of making excuses. I know how much this businees costs per year and my business pays for it. DON'T TAKE IT PERSONAL WHEN I TELL YOU THAT I GET IT AND MAKE IT WORK SOME PEOPLE GET AND SOME DON'T...... IT'S BEEN FUN LAST POST....
Good luck Allan!
I think you did some other IBOs a disservice by not sharing an important secret about the business - how to fund all business expenses with a 300 PV business.
-_- been internet-less for a couple of days..terribly jet-lagged from 3 flights in 4 days...
Anyways..@Joe
Yeah, they buy every month. Anywhere from XS, Trim, Nutrilite. I was talking about my personal circle. My guys below me are making a profit...
And, yeah. a 300pv can pay for everything. Or you have to pay around 200-300 more..but then again, i havent gone to any major functions. 4 of my downlines are going though..
Welp, i gtg..im on dialup...ghetto much -_-
Christian,
I aks how a 300 PV business can fund all expenses because it's not true for many businesses. For example, I live in Hawaii so my major functions were in Portland/San Diego so my airfare lone was like $600 or more, add in rental car, hotel, food, etc and my major functions ( 3 time a year) each costed over $1200.
If you are an active IBO, then you are building an organization by #1 showing the plan on a consistant basis. Therefore, you are also an UPLINE to several other IBOs. You are in business to MAKE MONEY. If you're stuffing your upline's pockets, guess what - YOU'RE ALSO STUFFING YOUR OWN. Cause and effect is a proven success principle. Oh, I forgot, you wouldn't know that because you're not on BOM.
@Joe
Quote from somewhere up there
[280/month + Writeoffs of anywhere between 100-200+]
Total being atleast 380. Lets take 400.
Lets say again that your so lame that you didnt grow for 1 whole year. 400 multiply by 12 is...?? $4800
Im pretty sure thats more than enough for major functions...But then again, heres my point of view..
My Major functions are just across the boarder (British Columbia going to Washington). And we all road trip and share the same hotel.
So..my expenses are way less than your $1200...
Thanks Christian, but I didn't ask you the question. The person who made the claim about funding all his business expenses and functions with a 300 PV business left town.
Many IBOs do that after they make outrageous claims.
Obviously this business isn't for everyone. You know... the people who have time to bash on other peoples dreams and talk down to something completely amazing. So go back to your job and give up on creating financial stability and not spending time with your family/friends :)
The # step is "show the plan" (recruiting). What does that tell you?
Posted by: Joecool18 | November 21, 2006 7:22 AM