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September 30, 2006
Quixtar's National Ad Campaign
By QBlog in Quixtar
The greatly anticipated Quixtar Ad Campaign has finally arrived. According to Quixtar (restricted access) the first Quixtar-specific television spots air October 1 on NBC during Sunday Night Football.
Some ads featuring Amway have already aired in Michigan in an apparent move to respond to criticisms that surfaced during the gubernatorial campaign of former Amway leader Dick DeVos.
More Quixtar ads are planned for the rest of the year (pdf) including some featuring Nutrilite, Quixtar's premiere product. Quixtar explains the ad campaign:
A multimillion-dollar ad campaign for Quixtar, Alticor, and Nutrilite has launched in the U.S. and Canada.
The goal of this expansive ad program is to generate excitement and pride in the Quixtar business opportunity and in the NUTRILITE brand. By creating and running its own ads, Quixtar will no longer allow its critics to define this business. Instead, Quixtar will tell its own story, in its own words, and on its own terms.
It's interesting that the primary motivation for Quixtar's ad campaign appears to be a reaction to "its critics." Quixtar is not only trying to tell "its own story" but is using a relaunched Quixtar Facts site to tell the story of some of its critics as well. I'll have an additional comment about that later.
But first, let's get a sneak peek at the ads. I've found four commercials and all of them are expertly crafted pieces of marketing. They exude the sort of image branding often aired during the Sunday morning talk shows for financial, health or agricultural companies. There's no real call to action, just some nice branding to make the viewer feel good about the business.
The Land of Will
This first ad mentions the critics in a roundabout way. The narrator says, "of course there will be doubters. Those who stumble upon a half-filled glass and think only of how thirsty they might be." Who are these doubters? Are they the folks that choose not to become Quixtar IBOs? Contrast those two lines from the commercial with the comments of Rich DeVos, Amway's Co-Founder, from his infamous Directly Speaking tapes:
There are no losers in Amway. There are people who choose not to do it; but who are you to tell some teacher that chooses to spend the rest of his life as a dedicated teacher that he's a loser? Who are you to tell a truck driver that chooses to spend more of his time doing things other than Amway, and maybe just drivin' his truck, that he's a loser? Whoever gave you a license to brand people?
So, who are these doubters? The commercial continues by explaining that the land of will is where the narrator lives, and that it is populated by over half a million others which clearly refers to Quixtar IBOs. So the "Land of Will" is those in Quixtar and the doubters are those outside of Quixtar?
Won't Becomes Will
This commercial is shorter and just talks about "won't" becoming "will." I like this ad much better than the first. It's optimistic and leaves out the ambiguous finger-pointing at those doubters.
Nutrilite - Plant Tour
This commercial kicks it in so many ways. I like it. No talking, just music, images and text. Very well done.
Nutrilite - Package
Another great looking commercial. I'm starting to think Quixtar should just stick to marketing its products and stop with the whole opportunity thing.
Final Comments
I like these commercials and I know that if I were an IBO I'd be excited about them. When my wife was involved with Quixtar I often wondered why the corporation didn't do any advertising. It was so difficult to explain the business to people sometimes and it seemed that just a little national brand awareness would go a long way towards helping her business. When I questioned her and her upline about the lack of advertising I was told that Quixtar doesn't advertise so it can put more money into the hands of its IBOs.
Hogwash. I don't know why Quixtar didn't regularly advertise but it certainly wasn't so it could give more money to IBOs. That's the same faulty logic that says building a new downtown arena will jeopardize the quality of education in public schools or that waging war in Iraq means the homeless aren't being fed. One is not connected to the other. Money put in one place doesn't mean it's pulled from another place.
Oh well, I guess Quixtar finally dropped the "money into IBO pockets" charade and decided to do what's right for its IBOs. Good for Quixtar.
And finally, I have to mention Quixtar's comments about Search Engine Marketing which are clearly a response to my exposure of their Web Reputation Task Force. There's absolutely nothing wrong with Search Engine Marketing and Search Engine Optimization. In my current position I spend over half a million dollars a year doing exactly what Quixtar claims to be doing. Businesses must be aware of search engines and work to be ranked as favorably as possible.
However, there are two types of search engine marketing techniques — white hat and black hat. For a time, Quixtar was doing a bit of black hat SEO. I exposed this, reported it to Google and on February 6, 2005, their site dropped off the first page result of Google for searching the word "Quixtar." That was the "Oh Crap" moment when Quixtar realized that such black hat tactics had to stop immediately. And they did.
Soon after, Quixtar started following Google's best practices and at the end of May, 2005, Mark Glaser asked Peter Norvig, director of search quality at Google, about Quixtar's drop from the first page of results. Within days of Glaser's interview Quixtar returned to its rightful spot at Google.
So, I'm not complaining about SEO or SEM. All I did was point out some black hat tactics employed by Quixtar. They got slapped and straightened up their act and as far as I can see, are now wearing white hats in the SEO/SEM arena.
Comments
"Money put in one place doesn't mean it's pulled from another place."
Would you care to explain this a little more? I'm no Warren Buffet, but I do know that money is a finite resource in every business I've ever run. What am I doing wrong that I can't spend money on everything I want?
Anybody else reminded of the Hanso Foundation ads that ran after some episodes of "Lost"?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nAQ-OS2fgxE
Those first two ads appear to be nothing more than a glorified version of the "curiosity approach". I can't help but think they will only backfire on them, much like it does when IBOs use that same approach. They should stick to the product ads.
Here's another beautiful spot that was done for Alticor. It was probably done for a trade show or for internal use, but it's my favourite of all the productions I've seen.
The first two commercials were a little too gooey and I agree that they seemed like the curiosity approach, but then it would be hard to explain the business model during an ad. (Or could it be done?) At least, they had "Quixtar" at the end of the commercials.
I loved the nutrilite commercials though. They were very cool and I feel like they will help IBOs market nutrilite (they need the help given the high cost of the supplements, esp. Double X). At least, maybe people will be more willing to pay for an expensive product if they are actually familiar with it.
I think Q should have done this a long time ago, just like Avon (though Avon somehow manages to have very reasonably priced products).
We'll see what happens.
EXACTLY..they should have done it long time ago...those stupid quixtar morons..whoever that said no to a lil bit of advertising
rara,
You are right. That would have helped a long time a go. As you said will see. For all those IBOs out there that still believe that this business will set them free. Good luck to all.
EXACTLY..they should have done it long time ago...those stupid quixtar morons..whoever that said no to a lil bit of advertising
Negative Critics like this will become more and more obsolete. The branding Quixtar is using will make comments like this seem more and more juevenile.
Positive Critics can't help but admit that this is a step in the right direction for the corportation.
I attended a function this weekend that was very informative. I've never been at a function that had so much education from the Corporation.
PDAP will succeed. Many critics don't believe so, but there are DVDs and and other media that are directly addressing many issues spoken about on sites like this.
The corporation dosen't have to send corporate agents into business meetings to make sure the systems are behaving. It's not needed because all new prospedts will eventually see the various DVDs and information to talks about accurate Quixtar incomes, System money, and answers to other allegations from critics.
If an IBO is not being honest with his/her sales plan, it will be obvious to the new prospects and they won't get started. IBOs leaders want to grow, and they want to compete with the international markets. They will make sure rules are being followed because the correct information will be more available to the masses.
This is not Advertising, nor is it any kind of 'brand awareness campaign'.
It another form of 'brainwashing', it is directed to people that already know of Quixtar, and are on the fence-undecided, or thinking of quitting, or joining.
Compare advertising by a company like 'Archer Daniels Midland'. They are not retailers, you never see their name on products, signs or print advertising. They would advertise on some highly resepcted Sunday morning shows, explain why you may never have heard of them, but they explain WHAT they do behind the scenes, or in a support position, to bring food etc to you.
In my opinion, The Corp has crossed the line between being an innocent 'victim' of the Cult Masters, and being a 'Cult Master' themselves. This is evidence they KNOW the 'Brainwashing' techniques, in fact WORK.
THIS type of advertising is going to backfire, and enrage more people than it impresses.
Those first two ads appear to be nothing more than a glorified version of the "curiosity approach". I can't help but think they will only backfire on them, much like it does when IBOs use that same approach. They should stick to the product ads.
Posted by: concernedcitizen | October 1, 2006 2:44 PM
Comments like these really seem like complaining. How is this a form of the curiosity approach when the quixtar name flashes at the end. It's good marketing. Plenty or other commercials have nothing to do with the product, but they're good commercials that work.
Don't you think that these commercials will actually help IBOs to be more confident about using the Quixtar name on a contact?
As far as comments about the critics on the commercial.
I think its ironic that now that the tables are being turned a bit, critics are crying foul. No one is calling anybody a loser, or a moran. They just said that they were doubters with pessimistic attitudes. I thinks that's pretty accurate.
Now if someone feels like a loser after watching the commercial, realizing they may have quit too soon and LOST out on the impending success after this ad campaign, then that's on them.
Are you keeping your business options open?
Willy,
If you are still around, why do you think it's a form of brainwashing? I don't agree, but I kind of see your point about the first two commercials cos no one not familiar with Q will have a clue what's going on. But brainwashing? That's a little harsh. Explain, please.
The other two were obviously product related and I fail to see how they can possibly be even remotely considered brainwashing. Sure, they might hype up IBOs more and convince them more that their products are the best, but they do make Nutrilite look very cool.
At least Rara is being somewhat sensible, although a find it ridiculous that someone could make a connection between the Quixtar ads and brainwashing.
It's a commercial! Its meant to arose interest. Now someone who knows nothing about Quixtar can go to Quixtar.com and see what's up.
If they google and find a negative website, at least they will question the validity of the negative site because it will contradict the fact that they saw a commercial on national network tv. Afterall, how can a cult, pyramid scheme, scam have a commerical during Sunday Night Football, Cold Case, Rachel Ray, etc. etc. etc.
Willy,
I must say that comments a little ignorant. How do you associate these commercials and the Corporation with a cult?
I saw one of these commercials during The Bears/ Seahawks game (Won $100 on Da Bears)
I actually thought the commercial was a good one. I just wonder why Q* decided all of a sudden it needed to advertise on television.
I also find it ironic in the fact that IBO's are taught to NOT watch television because it doesn't help them "build their business".
Anyway I think it's a step in the right direction for Q* and it's IBO's, and hopefully it'll make them more successful.
I too saw the commercial during the football game, I must Say I was surprised it was quixtar. To the unintiated viewer it would ask "what is quixtar" good lead in , not much substance..but lets hope its a move in the right direction- away from the AMO/QMO
PS- we had a 7500pv month didn't do a damn thing gotta love it
Xtra Energized are you gay?
The first two commercials explain nothing about the business except that there are Pro and Con folks out there... with the Pro's being on the sunny side of the fence actually enjoying life with profound expressions of bliss.
I also enjoyed the dour expressions on the people in the first video that obviously didn't do right by joining or quit the biz. They looked like they needed more fiber in their diet, good visual denouncement of any that "think" this biz isn't the best ever.
Marketing is interesting, a business can use it as a PR campaign verses actually selling product, but it is usually used like that when damage control is necessary, Oil companies, Phillip Morrison and politicians galore (never Dick Devos though!) use these same "Vision" type ads to shore up public image.
The second two seemed fine, well done commercials about vitamins, wholesome ingredients and nature all encapsulated into a little ball of goodness that fly off the hand into your soul (isn't that what I was suppose to feel :).
Fine product advertisement with little actually explained about what makes the product so different and worth the cost, I guess that bee looked honest and respectable enough though.
@Extra Energized
What the hell? I guess you misunderstood that. Im pissed that it took them long enough to start advertising. If they had done it sooner, then everything would have been easier.
@BIG DOG
yada yada yada. Your negative no matter what.
To put my .02 worth in, I gotta agree that the Nutrilite ads were very well done. It is good that those higher up in the business decided to give them common man IBO a little boost here. 'Should have been done a long time ago.
Christian, How am I negative? I live in reality. I said it was a step in the right direction and hopefully it translates into success for the IBO. That sounds anything but negative to me.
Dawson; you crack me up. "I guess that bee looked honest and respectable enough though."
LOL. I love the dry sense of humor.
Christian,
Big Dog had a point that is not deserving of a mere childish "yada, yada, yada." dismissal.
IBO's not long ago were (and possibly are) taught to not watch TV due to it being a time sink and a big box o' negative.
The same IBO's were taught to stay away from the internet. These horrid walls of expletive graffitied toilets, that held nothing but negative "critics" like me, who would warp your mind with our thoughts of wrongness and pesimissm.
So why now is all of that changing? Why are campaigns for Quixtar being fielded on both the dirty TV ("We don't need to advertise, our IBO's are our best advertisements") As well as the dirty DIRTY internet?
I believe the reason is they have to, to survive.
Telling a human being to not do something only lasts so long, curiosity and technology can not be stopped only hampered in a free society.
So now its the reworking time for Quix, they are scrambling there fighter jets of PR to fight the sinking of outdated thought controlling methods and bad publicity.
Welp, guess what dog. I also live in reality. The business works for me and the guys i sponsored, they like the products, my members like the products..and my cleints like the products and the incentives. AND i still have time to study, do my hw and chill and blaze =)
Honestly, i dont know all the history about what happened in the past with amway and quixtar. But today, its good, it works, products are great. Maybe in the past it sucks and people were completely against it. And those same people are spreading their hate..welp..times are changing..
..and i gotta go to class =p ..boolean algebra >.
Times are changing, but people's perception of MLM schemes haven't.
If they had, IBO's would not approach "prospects" with the lines "I have my own business" or "I'm into private franchising" etc. They'd just come out and say "I'm affiliated with Quixtar, which is Multi Level Marketing"
I've been prospected many, many times (I just love hearing the whole presentation and then asking them questions they can't answer)
They all say the same things, I've NEVER ONCE heard an IBO just come out and say "I'm in Quixtar".
As soon as they show me their "plan" I ask them "So it's a multi level marketing outfit"? The response "No because it's not a pyramid, it's a legitimate business" "We do private franchising" etc etc. LOL
I also have a hard time believing you've been remotely successful when you say. "I like to chill and blaze"
I guess that phrase speaks volumes.
Welp, i guess youve never met me or my guys =p. I straight up tell them im affiliated with quixtar. Although i dont say its multilevel (even though in a global scale it is), because compared to the other mlms out there, Q* is waayy out of their category.
Meh, im 19. I still want to have fun. Are you implying that people who smoke pot are all failures? Welp, believe it or not..im successful. Average age doing this business..22-25. My team is compromised of mainly 18-24s. I have a 16yr old still in highschool distributing the drinks and cosmetics =p..screw MAC
I did this funny little experiment here at work. I watched all the commercials, then had my coworker peek in my cube and watch the first video. When done, he asked "Quixtar, What is that?"
I answered "North American Amway on the internet."
He answered "Oh" with a complete look of disgust on his face, followed up by "what a scam." (My current coworkers know nothing of my involvement in the buisness, that is my dirty little secret to keep.)
It doesn't matter how much sugar you can wrap around it, people are turned off by Quixtar/Amway.
Xtra,
You're right....for goodness sakes, it's a commercial!!! Lighten up, Willy & "Concerned"!
You guys are representative of the grumpy people of the world who will complain about anything! Wow....
I love it. And I do admit, I have recently moved to the "land of will". ;-)
Have a great & awesome day you guys.
Anon
add to that list of grumpy people: big dog, dawson & fastshutter
Maybe its difficult for you to imagine but I do not believe I nor Big Dog are "grumpy" in the least.
I believe instead we are attempting to show an opposing view point.
your casual dismissal of opinion that disagrees with your dogmatic dream is alarming, at least you should think so.
It shows me that you can not take criticism of your golden calf and instead retreat back to the comfort of others that you can share a nervous laugh with over how "right" you are and label all others as denizens of wrong.
It takes no bravery to dismiss those that challenge your view point, it takes no courage to place one that opposes on a "list" of enemies.
It takes a person of true moral integrity and wisdom to say "I believe I am correct, but I will listen to see if you have a valid point as well."
I don't see you on that list of the wise anon.
fastshutter>> I did this funny little experiment here at work. I watched all the commercials, then had my coworker peek in my cube and watch the first video. When done, he asked "Quixtar, What is that?"
I answered "North American Amway on the internet."
He answered "Oh" with a complete look of disgust on his face, followed up by "what a scam." (My current coworkers know nothing of my involvement in the buisness, that is my dirty little secret to keep.)
It doesn't matter how much sugar you can wrap around it, people are turned off by Quixtar/Amway.
See, I thought the same thing. So they do some product advertising. Will that be good enough to overcome the hostility? Nobody will deny that some of the products are good. But are the prices justified? Now, that's a whole different story. The controversial distribution method? The abuses committed by the Kingpins with the 'tacit' approval of the Amway Corporation and its owners?
Call me a cynic, but why do I have a feeling this is all about the THIEF Dick Devos'
gubernatorial run?
Look at the history. They found out about the abuses in '83. After a feeble attempt, they cave in, in the face of a $300 million drop in volume. Apparently thousands of people can be sacrificed at the altar of the Devoses' $300 million. I mean, come on, they were immensely wealthy in '83 itself. BUT, can you imagine how many more yachts and planes and cars and islands that $300 million can buy? After all, you can't just ski behind one yacht, you need a hundred of them.
So they turn a blind eye to the top Amway Distributors ripping off lower level distributors and merrily rake in the dough. Finally the arrival of the internet opens the floodgates of INFORMATION that had been hidden until the mid 90s. So, how does the Corporation respond to that information? Critic after critic was intimidated by legal bullying tactics. Nearly 10 years later, WHEN they realized that there was no stopping the FREE flow of information, and how that information would damage Dick Devos' gubernatorial run, they decide to implement an "OPTIONAL" PDAP accreditation program, and start an "advertising" campaign!
And all the people who had been raped financially and emotionally by AMOs in the past? Too bad. They will just have to live with it.
They ain't going to get an apology from Dick Devos. And they sure as hell ain't going to get restitution from Dick Devos.
Let's all forget the victims of the past and move on with our lives, because Dick Devos needs to become Governor of Michigan. Why is that so important? Well, little Dick's Rich Daddy said he could spend millions and buy the Governorship, so why not?
Look at this line on their new QuixtarFacts website talking about "online criticism":
We continue to prefer and request that those with legitimate concerns communicate with us, directly, and without causing harm to all IBOs and Quixtar through internet-centered criticism. To engage in criticism online without attempting first to resolve matters offline is the equivalent of committing vandalism to a storefront because you had an experience you didn't like at the store.
Right. As long as we keep it all hush-hush, everything's fine and dandy. We will take your complaint, and just plant a slap on the wrist of the offender, or just plain ignore the complaint and everything will be back to normal.
Mr. Tom Swab, are you listening? Do you remember me complaining about a "Diamond" (apparently going double-diamond) standing on stage in front of nearly 600-800 people and telling them that he had made $78,000 in his first year in the business? Do you remember me reporting the multiple Quixtar Rules of conduct that were violated during that meeting? Do you remember me complaining about another big-pin spouting the "60% of Quixtar's sales are paid out to IBOs in bonuses" BS from stage in front of nearly 500-600 people? Apparently that is a clear "mis-representation of the Quixtar Business Opportunity" according to one of Quixtar's Rules Department officials itself.
You kicked them both out, didn't you? RIGHT. And I am an astronaut.
So, "perceptive" - you belive that if the corporation receives even a single complaint about an IBO doing the wrong thing, they should "kick them out"? Do you know for certain that Quixtar didn't contact these people and let them know of the problem? Do you know for certain that these people are continuing to do it?
Or are you judge, jury, and executioner?
You seem consumed by a lot of hate, "perceptive", more than can be generated by any wrong doings in this business. Go talk to someone before it kills you.
dog,
i actually think you have a little, tiny, teeney-eenie weenie bit of an open mind left. It's good to see it.
Dawson,
one thing about you....i do enjoy your rather unusual & questionable sense of humor....sometimes it gives me a smile when i need one.
fastshutter, et al: GET OVER THE OLD AMWAY MODEL!!! IT'S GONE!!! IT'S IN THE PAST!!!
This is a legit business. We sell products. Yes, to ourselves and to others (businesses & consumers). We teach others to do the same.
As far as the support & training organizations go....I am sure there were some bad seeds in EVERY LOS and that stinks. Nobody can stop that from happening. However, I do believe the accredidation process will make a huge difference. I can honestly say that I've been extremely pleased that, in the past 1 1/2 to 2 years, I've seen WWDB really step up with the product training as well as more specific traning (other than just "i did it, you can too" type stuff). It's REAL BUSINESS training that one could apply to almost any area in their lives.
You guys really, indeed, do need to get caught up on the latest info. before you go spewing the same old "it's a cult & the prices are too high" mantra from the 70's.
"fastshutter, et al: GET OVER THE OLD AMWAY MODEL!!! IT'S GONE!!! IT'S IN THE PAST!!!"
Funny, I got ripped off in Quixtar (not Amway). It wasn't 30 years ago, 20 years ago, 10 years ago, or 5 years ago. I still encounter people who got ripped off from the SAME tactics used in the "old business."
Instead of telling todays critics to get over the old model, perhaps you should tell today's IBO's to finally stop the old abuses.
Just maybe?
perceptive,
I think it SUCKS that the lies, greed, midconduct all happened from several (maybe many) high-level pins. Sounds like they truly abused their positions (that they did earn). In 3 years, I have not experienced any of it myself. I have only heard about it. Most of it does seem to be on the East Coast. Not sure why.
I hate that all that happened. And I do believe it did happen. But what in the world do you want the DeVos family to do about it now? Really, what's your suggestion for them?
Also, why don't any of you critics NAME THE CULPRITS!!! PLEASE!!! I think that would help IBO's much more than just grouping all diamonds or all pins together. Please, Perceptive, NAME the two Diamonds you wrote to the company about. I'd love to know. Thank you.
Dawson,
I am convinced you believe yourself to be intellectually superior to most others on this website, including myself. I won't debate on that subject because we have different bases of knowledge & experience.
You need to get off of your 'high horse' and realize that you are the LAST person to tell someone they are not 'wise' or acting with character & integrity.
I think anyone who has read ANY of my comments understands that I shoot from the hip. I am honest & open about my position, my experiences, my results. I love 'debating' with critics who seem to have legitimate complaints. But when I see someone complain that the price is just too high, or the products are not worth the price, or all IBO's are out to just get you in their business....
well, those arguments hold no meat. I have yet to see a critic convince me otherwise.
As far as people (upline Diamonds & other high PINS) lying, cheating, etc. Well, as I stated to Perceptive....that sucks. I don't know how you completely get rid of it. They will simply do the best they can. We, as individual IBO's, can also be 'citizen police', if you will. If we see or hear of unethical practices, well then we need to do our part to stop it.
That's all! thanks.
Anon
Anon
How many times was the Quixtar ad played during the game, DOG? I wasn't able to catch it. By the way, I would have had $100 on Chicago as well......congrats.
You can talk about dishdrops or you can talk about energy drink.
You can talk about Amway or you can talk about Q*
You can talk about advertising or you can talk about word of mouth.
It really doesn't matter. IT IS ALL THE SAME.
This is just more $ wasted trying to suade the general public into changing their mind about the A/Q business model. IMO people will either a) not belive in the change b) keep drinking the AQ koolaid or c) ignore it all and make more money doing other things (i.e. wagering the NFL games.)
OK, ANON, I'll bite.
I wrote and called the company about Howie Danzik's lies, deceptions, and outright insults to me, my family, and my beliefs (upline received a copy too). I wrote the company about the abuses on KATE from Ron Puryear - insinuating - no, TELLING people if they if they did not attend the Sunday service at a function, they would NEVER be Diamonds. And I wrote and called the company about the political and religious rhetoric intertwined with business from a WWG stage at not one, but 3 separate major functions! NOT ONCE DID I RECEIVE A RESPONSE FROM 1) MY UPLINE 2) MY DIAMOND 3) THE COMPANY. In addition, I wrote Felber for a refund (within the time limit) for my last major function (Family Reunion). You want to know what happened? I got a call from my upline, telling me I really shouldn't have done that. I should have talked to him (upline) or Howie. Ok, I said, so here's the deal...now where's my refund? Again - nothing. "you don't really want to do this - it's not in your best interest....." Bull.
Enough names for you? And this is your beloved WWDB.
Hey Disenchanted,
Dont try and convince ANON that WWDB is bad. She will just use her old stale line about being stuck in the 70s
Disenchanted,
So, Howie told boldface lies to and about your family? I don't know anything about that. The reason I want to know is to know if I'M being lied to right now! So, was it at a function or an Open when he was on stage? Or, was it on a more personal level? This is important for me to know!
I highly doubt (but of course, I could be wrong) that Ron Puryear outright TOLD people they had to attend a church service. I WOULD believe it if he strongly suggested attending a church service because I know that his intention is pure. It is more important to him that someone goes to church for the possibility of giving their lives to Christ and becoming saved. Or re-saved. Depending on the situation. But no, I don't think the Bible says anything about "going Diamond".
I don't agree with how Felber, Howie or your immediate upline handled your potential refund. Good grief, you're probably part of a whole 1% or less, who has asked for a refund. Why don't they just give it to you?
I agree with Fastshutter on the fact that IBO's need to monitor themselves & each other. However, not sure exactly how I alone, can change other IBO's behaviors. I can just make sure I'm doing the next right thing & that my LOS (as far as I know, anyway!) is doing the next right thing as well.
Fastshutter, HOW did you get ripped off? Please do tell!
David, where in the world did that hostile remark come from???
Guys....listen....if I find out of actual, proven ongoing unethical behavior & practices in my LOS, I will investigate it with my husband & Quixtar. We both agreed already on two things: if we DO encounter any of the unethical or immoral practices OR if we found something better, we'd quit.
So far, neither has happened.
I should say "if we encounter any of the 'claims of' unethical or immoral practices...
"The Dalai-Lama-of-MLM-Amway-Quixtar, His Holiness, The Almighty INSIDER">> You seem consumed by a lot of hate, "perceptive", more than can be generated by any wrong doings in this business. Go talk to someone before it kills you.
Boy, "INSIDER", you are awfully condescending, aren't you? For a paid PR Hack, you aren't doing a very good job of representing either the Quixtar Corpn. or the THIEF Dick Devos. In any case, I appreciate your concern ;-)... Don't worry about me, I am fine and dandy. I have a perfectly healthy life, lots of diverse interests, plenty of friends, great family, AND a great church. So, thank you, but no thank you.
Do I hate what Dick Devos and his family have done to thousands of hard-working Americans? You bet. And I will make Damn Sure, as many people as possible know about it.
And who are you kidding about the whole, "judge, jury and executioner"? Do we really need to go over this? You are an "INSIDER" after all. You didn't care to read all of my posting, did you? Do you seriously think, my complaint was the first one ever? Bigger complaints have been filed, and what came of it? Remember "Ken-What-would-happen-to-the-business-McDonald"? Heck, a high-level-pin complained to Ken McDonald and asked him to kick the offenders out - show them that he was serious. And what was Ken McDonald's response? "What would happen to the Biznez?" EXCUSE ME??!! That sounds EXACTLY like the excuse that the Devoses used in '83! - "Oh, the Biznez took a hit of $300 million. Let's just look the other way, and let the Kingpins abuse and rape and pillage the hard-working, LOYAL, lower-level IBOs." After all, Little-Dickie-Devos needs to have more YACHTS to ski behind!
Anon, you need to take off your rose-tinted glasses. Read this post by a multi-year veteran of the Biz. You want to learn about some of FastShutter's experiences? Here's one, AFTER he got out of the "Biz" - FORUM. Don't think for a second that the Corpn. is going to do something about your complaints about unethical behavior. History proves otherwise. RECENT HISTORY!
THIS IS PERHAPS THE MOST RUTHLESS, UNETHICAL CORPORATION IN US HISTORY!
Hey Rick,
I only saw one ad, during the game but I have a tendency to change channels during commercial breaks, so it may have run more than once.
(The Bears was an easy $100) lol.
Anon,
I have no ill will towards you or anyone else. However, on numerous occasions you've accused me of being, assumptive. Than you make a statement like this;
"Dawson,
I am convinced you believe yourself to be intellectually superior to most others on this website, including myself. I won't debate on that subject because we have different bases of knowledge & experience."
Don't you see how hypocritical that it is? I've haven't seen one post where Dawson states or feels his intellectually superior to most people or any people, for that matter, on this site.
But I can tell you this, from reading his posts, I would say he is a very, highly educated individual and that's a good thing.
Anon:
I am convinced you believe yourself to be intellectually superior to most others on this website, including myself. I won't debate on that subject because we have different bases of knowledge & experience.
You need to get off of your 'high horse' and realize that you are the LAST person to tell someone they are not 'wise' or acting with character & integrity.
I appreciate your spirited rebuke, I agree with you on your point that I am not a worthy judge of wisdom, in truth very few can be. I would like to apologize for presuming to know where you rank in such issues.
Listing people in such a blithe manner can be problematic, it often comes from heated emotions and "grumpiness", rarely does objectivity get to play. I am not alone in committing this error but I will still prostrate myself in humility.
To your other point of contention, I do not feel I have ever thought, expressed nor written any feelings of intellectual superiority on these boards or any other area in my life. I think you get that impression from my writing style, and for that I will not apologize.
I attempt to express myself in a understandable manner and form, it is far from perfect but I try to get my point across in a calm and possibly humorous way.
Also, where I live horses are far and few between. I have a high moose.
I wish he would get off the couch and go get a job.
ANON
I was only saying what you have to saying to us every post. That we are stuck in the 70s
ANON
I meant to say what you have been saying too us.
Dawson,
You remind me of some of my "older" intellectually minded friends. I enjoy your style of writing. Were you serious about the moose? The reason I ask is because I used to live in Alaska.
David,
I see your point. But, do you also see mine?
Thanks,
Anon
Does anyone know how to edit files in MP3 Format Sound format? I have some KATEs I'd love to post, but only want the pins on there, not the common person. I'm not technologically savy!
Disenchanted, send me a PM on the forum, I'll try to give it a go.
Anon,
I know I am pretty abrasive on here. BUT, here's my beef with the Devoses - All they had to do was take a stand. Kick out some of the big offenders. They won't do that because that would mean losing money. I find that EXTREMELY CALLOUS! Just look at their history. They were also convicted in the Canadian Tax Evasion Scandal! Does this sound like integrity to you? And the chap goes on to write a book title, "Compassionate Capitalism"? COMPASSIONATE CAPITALISM???!!! Excuse me??!! What a crock!!
I find it APPALLING that the guy who has made a billion-dollar fortune on thousands of people's misfortunes, is trying to "BUY" legitimacy by 'spending' his way to the "Governorship"!
I am absolutely tired of overpaid CEOs that get rewarded irrespective of their company's fortunes. I am absolutely tired of 'Rich' offenders getting away with white-collar crimes, just because they happen to be wealthy.
Perceptive,
I rather like my 'rose tinted glasses', thank you very much! ;-)
Actually, I can be a very optimistic and sometimes naiive person. It's been one of my downfalls in the past. However, since we signed up, I have purposefully gone out of my way to actively LOOK for and LISTEN for any wrongdoings. If I hear a quote I don't appreciate, I'll dismiss it or actively shake my head in disagreement. But, most of the time, I find myself agreeing with what they say & finding logic in it as well.
I checked out the links you provided, Perceptive. The information posted was rather vague. Nothing specific or concrete that I could sink my teeth into.
Sorry, but some IBO's out there who are not disclosing the contents of the signup fee, does not make me want to quit or call the Quixtar police.
You guys act like they're committing murder. They SHOULD be disclosing each and every part of the entire cost so as to avoid the "hidden cost" syndrome. But some IBO's are not doing that. I hope they get caught & kicked out as much as you do.
However, I must ask this: at what point in time did any of you guys (or the gal in Fastshutter's experience) ask "hey, what exactly does this sign up fee cover"? THAT's when the IBO should have outlined it for them.
At what point are people going to 'cover their own ass' and really look into this opportunity? Don't blindly sign up. That's the problem. People just quickly sign up without really understanding what it is they're signing up for. They don't understand the costs (signup & monthly) and they don't understand the time & consistent effort it will take for them to build a strong business.
Honesty & Integrity will get everyone farther in EVERY aspect of their lives.
Anon,
Part of the problem is that quixtar presenters (not all) will tell prospects not to research, or that the internet is a "bathroom wall", or only ask the person who invited you, not your uncle to who did it 5 years ago and quit. They want you to sign up on a wave of excitement and get you "plugged into" the system ASAP.
Perceptive,
If you indeed, know this (about the DeVos family) as a fact, then I'd be as upset as you.
Here's how I look at it: 1. How can I positively affect the situation right now? and,
2) They will get their 'just' reward - only GOD knows the real truth
Anon
Joecool,
Yeah. I know. It's unfortunate but true. Even though I agree with their general point in saying those things....that's not reality. We have to deal with reality. And if this is indeed a legitimate business with the potential they say it has, then they should have not problem with prospects investigating the opportunity in any way they see fit.
I do see their point about wanting people to get "plugged in" right away. One of the reasons is that it really is an entirely different environment than the day to day regular j.o.b. or corporate america or even your local church. I never got the kind of genuine help, assistance, interest, information, etc. that I now get through my WWDB association.
Perceptive,
If you indeed, know this (about the DeVos family) as a fact, then I'd be as upset as you.
Here's how I look at it: 1. How can I positively affect the situation right now? and,
2) They will get their 'just' reward - only GOD knows the real truth
Anon
Good grief, Anon! Are you that dense?
What the heck was "vague" about that post?
Geez!
See, this is the kind of glib dismissal of "problems" by current IBOs that drives me nuts!
The lady signed up, paid $130 bucks. She was given the impression, that that was the "sign-up" cost. That that was the MINIMUM amount required to sign up.
When she CALLS her sponsor, the sponsor was ADAMANT that the MINIMUM sign-up costs was $130. NOT $30. The lady was TOLD that Quixtar is "OWNED BY MICROSOFT"!!!!
Here's something else. EVERY Quixtar IBO that I have baited, INSISTED that I didn't have a choice, but to buy the Intro-pack, when I signed up, that I did NOT have a choice. They didn't give me the blatant lie that the Reg. Fee itself was that high, and that the products were "free". BUT, that I did NOT have a choice with regards to buying the intro pack.
Since you really did not seem to have read through that thread, I will go ahead and cut and paste.... You don't see anything "wrong" with this picture...???
So I contact her again to see how things are going. She says that she called her sponser again to tell him that she was quitting. The guy has the audacity to tell her that she should stay in, that he would take her list of names and build the business for her. He told her that she only had to work 1-5 hours a month since he would help her out. She told him that she is quitting and it is not for her, and he left it that. Then she tells me, “He never told me anything about getting a refund. When he showed me the plan, he talked about how great the refund policy was and that it was backed by the FTC. When I told him that I was quitting, he never mentioned it at all. Thank God you told me this now, so that I get a refund.”
So who is this mysterious sponser of hers? Was he a new IBO who didn’t know the rules? Was he some young Ambot at a low PV level mindlessly doing what his upline told him to do? Nope.
Here Kicker #2.
Her sponser was Brad Berendes out of Iowa. A qualified Ruby (3 platinum legs) on Mike Wechters (I know I spelled Wechter wrong, I can’t find the right spelling on Google) team, who is sponsored by Joe Markiewicz.
Crooks, absolute crooks.
I wonder how many IBO’s under him got in on all of his lies and B.S. Yes, he has built a profitable business, but on the framework of lies and deceit. He is building a business against Quixtar rules, and giving him an advantage over other IBO’s who are trying to build the business honestly. The spirit of Quixtar is fair play. Every IBO is suppose to have the same chance at success as the next, and Branden has violated that by lying to get ahead. All IBO’s should be calling for his termination. Why don’t they?
Because they are taught to use his success as an inspiration for there business, and to inspire prospects to join. I bet every IBO in Omaha and Iowa on Larry Winters team is telling prospects about Branden and his wife. They are young, free, profitable, drive nice cars, etc. They wouldn’t dare speak negatively of him, and they have been brainwashed into thinking they need him and his experience to build there business. To speak out about what he is doing would be devastating to the team, and the team is more important then the individual. Even though his practices hurt there companies reputation and there chance of success, they’ll give him a standing ovation at every function, night owl, Pin recognition, and any other event they attend.
It makes me sick.
This disgusting example is exactly why I’m here on this message board telling people what happened to me. Not everyone who sees the plan will get the opportunity to get all the information and facts about what goes on in the teaching organizations. As my client told me, “Thank God for you.” I could have ignored it, I could have just taken the money for pictures and never said a word. Everyone deserves to know the truth, and not the truth that Insider has posted on his new website, but the REAL truth as it happens to people.
I can give you many examples like this myself. But unlike "INSIDER", I am not a paid PR Hack, who gets to sit on here all day and make post after post in a desperate attempt to discredit the opposition. And everybody who had an unpleasant experience with the "Biz" doesn't come on to the QuixtarBlog to post their experiences.
Just last Saturday, after a long day, I dropped by a friend's sandwich-place to have a late dinner, and I see a lady and her husband talking animatedly to another couple at that place. I didn't see my friend, so I walked into the kitchen, to find the two partners hiding in the kitchen with a funny look on their face. I talk to them for a few minutes and ask them why they are sitting behind closed doors. They tell me they were trying to avoid that couple selling some kind of business idea. Anyways I order my sandwich, and get back out and as I ease into a chair, I see a notebook with BWW in capital letters on it. I let out a sigh.... I pull out my laptop and try not to watch as this couple try desperately to pitch the Qstar biz to another couple who are clearly uncomfortable and trying to eat dinner in peace. After that couple is gone, the lady wanders over and tries to make conversation with me.
She -"So, what do you do"?
Me - "Oh, I am currently unemployed. Looking for work."
She - "Oh my husband is a financial advisor, I could have him get you a job. What's your educational level?"
Me - "Oh, I am a high-school dropout. So I don't think your husband can exactly hire me."
She - "Well, what kind of job are you looking for? I think we can find something for you. We have this business you know."
Me - "But I don't even have any college education, how can I work for a Financial Advisor? I have worked as a C-store clerk all my life. Does your husband have a C-store?"
She - "No, he doesn't have a C-store. But.... well, he has this business.... honey, why don't you show him the business...?"
At this point, the husband pulls up a chair next to me, and tries to pull a "Dream-building Exercise" with me. "What is your dream, what is your big-picture goal for your future?"
I give him a quizzical look, so he responds -
Hubby - "No, I am just trying to ask you, what are your goals? What is it that you intend to do long-term? Do you think there is long-term financial security in your job?"
Me - "Well, see, this is the lesson I have learnt. I should have gone to college and got an education, but I didn't. This whole $8-$10 job is getting me nowhere. EVEN THEN, if only I had saved my money instead of spending it frivolously, I could have bought myself a convenience store and got into business for myself. In any case, I am trying to make up for lost time. I will be closing on a C-store next week."
Hubby - "Well, let me tell you, I used to own a small business. It's very risky. I would advise you against buying a business...."
After that he pulls out his BWW stuff and goes into a pitch about how most small businesses fail, and that the ONLY option for future financial security....
Do you see the ridiculousness of this scene??
No doubt, I had cooked up a story about being a C-store clerk. But look at his response to a C-store clerk, who had wasted most of his early 20s, and was now trying to make up by buying a business.... "DON'T BUY A CONVENTIONAL BUSINESS, JOIN THE QUIXTAR BUSINESS"..... ????
Were these people, "evil vultures" preying on people? No, they were just "regular" folk... BUT, they sincerely believed that they were "helping" me..... It's like a plague.... I seem to keep running into them...
I could go on and on... but let me direct you to two posts that I had on the forum -
Spend a little time on the forum, you will get to read some REAL experiences. I'd recommend you especially read posts by two veterans of the Biz, "Pebble" and "Xbeliever".
Here's their "Profiles". Click on the link that says "Find all posts by...." You will find it VERY educational - will help you get your head out of the sand... sorry, but I think that IS a very accurate description.
As far as the Devoses and the history of Amway goes with regards to the Candian Tax Evasion Scandal, and their inaction after the $300 million drop in volume due to the Kingpins boycott goes, are you telling me you are unaware of the details?
Perceptive,
So we have another one from the mighty Markiewicz team on here. Boy sounds like everyone is duplicating now thats UNITY! LOL
Anon,
I know in your little part of WWDB this doesnt happen. But can you see were I am coming from and Perceptive,BIGDOG,Dawson,Fastshutter, AND THE LIST GOES ON. Do your history who sponsored and went out to the west coast and got all those people involved in Am/Quix. Let me know if you know.
Am I the only one that finds this comment inherently contradictory?
"He never told me anything about getting a refund. When he showed me the plan, he talked about how great the refund policy was"
Good Lord Perceptive!!!!! Wow!!!!! Close your eyes, take a deeeeep breath and count to ten. You might start thinking more clearly then.
I read it. Read my response AGAIN:
"I checked out the links you provided, Perceptive. The information posted was rather vague. Nothing specific or concrete that I could sink my teeth into.
Sorry, but some IBO's out there who are not disclosing the contents of the signup fee, does not make me want to quit or call the Quixtar police.
You guys act like they're committing murder. They SHOULD be disclosing each and every part of the entire cost so as to avoid the "hidden cost" syndrome. But some IBO's are not doing that. I hope they get caught & kicked out as much as you do.
However, I must ask this: at what point in time did any of you guys (or the gal in Fastshutter's experience) ask "hey, what exactly does this sign up fee cover"? THAT's when the IBO should have outlined it for them.
At what point are people going to 'cover their own ass' and really look into this opportunity? Don't blindly sign up. That's the problem. People just quickly sign up without really understanding what it is they're signing up for. They don't understand the costs (signup & monthly) and they don't understand the time & consistent effort it will take for them to build a strong business.
Honesty & Integrity will get everyone farther in EVERY aspect of their lives."
IBO's will lie. So will car salespeople. So will insurance reps. So will store clerks. So will doctors & nurses. So will priests & pastors. I'm sure at some point, my former managers lied to me.
I get it Perceptive!
However, what I don't see on ANY of the posts is where the "victims" take OWNERSHIP of their actions! If they can't afford the signup fee....SAY SO! ASK questions!!! ASK about what the signup fee covers. ASK whether there are any additional monthly costs! Do some REASEARCH! ASK for REFERENCES! Don't just blindly follow where someone is going and then cry because they lead you off of the bridge.
I can't help or change the fact that there are IBO's who are being told the wrong thing, getting their info. all screwed up, lying, being greedy, etc.
I HATE IT AS MUCH AS YOU DO!!!!! But why should I QUIT and rob me & my family of a legitimate way to make some extra money per month? Plus, I ENJOY it! It's a sanity break from the hum-drum routine of my life.
Like I've said MANY times before, Perceptive. I have NOT encountered ANY of this crap. I don't CARE whether you believe me or not. If/when I ever encounter it, you can bet I will talk to the person directly AND discuss it with my husband. I'll do whatever is appropriate & honest in the given situation.
IF I have time, I'll check out the links you provided. Thanks. I really do have MANY other things I should be doing with my time. Like working the retail side of our business. ;-)
Have a good day.
Anon
Perceptive,
A couple more things:
1) Please quit name-calling. It's rather juvinele
2) Thank you for the example of your recent experience. The couple sucked at prospecting. You NEVER "bother" anyone. It should be the most natural conversation in the world.
In fact, just yesterday, I had a lady GIVE me HER number & SHE said she might like to work from home. My mind wasn't even on 'prospecting' per say, at the time. I was thinking about 10 other things. However, I still ended up with a prospect & I will meet with her next week!
I don't know where that guy got off "advising" you on anything! He just met you! That's crazy.
Thanks for sharing the example..... I guess.
Insider, this is the complete quote:
Then she tells me, “He never told me anything about getting a refund. When he showed me the plan, he talked about how great the refund policy was and that it was backed by the FTC. When I told him that I was quitting, he never mentioned it at all. Thank God you told me this now, so that I get a refund.”
So basically she was saying that although he had boasted about the great refund policy when he was prospecting her, he didn't mention it at all when she wanted to quit.
It's quite obvious from the post. But I'm sure you knew that.
Anon,
No one is telling you too quit. We are only sharing our BAD experiences with the business. I would like too see you succeed. But I had 60K sucked out of me over a 4 1/2 year period. Like I said before I am glad that your little part of WWDB doesnt have the problem that most of the other MOs do. Once again good luck.
Rara - didn't the poster say the woman didn't get a refund? Are we to believe that she knew she could get a refund, but because the "upline" didn't mention it when she wanted to quit, it's somehow the uplines fault? Why didn't she ask? Isn't info also in the Quixtar paperwork she signed? And now the only reason she can get a refund is because someone here told here? She admits she was told about the refund policy! C'mon, obviously the upline screwed her around a bit, but the only person to blame for her not getting a refund already is herself.
insider,
I totally get your point and I do agree to some extent. She should have remembered and asked about the refund. If she didn't get one, she would have herself to blame for that.
But you must admit that the upline should also have offered to give her a refund. After all, he was extolling the virtues of the refund policy before she got in. And he is the upline, right? But when the time came for her to get a refund, he conveniently "forgot" to mention it.
By not doing something as simple as offering to help her get a refund or even just mentioning it, he has added one more negative story to the collection.
Oh, absolutely. Brand image is our job, and this fellow didn't improve it - but it's not his fault she didn't get a refund already - it's her fault. We've had this discussion on the forums before, for god sake, people have to take some personal responsibility.
Insider,
AFAIK, my client was only an IBO for less then Two weeks, probably less the one week from how it sounded. (You can never be sure how long and IBO has been in when they say "I'm just getting started." When she discovered she had been scammed, all the tiny little lies fell into place and she saw the big picture. Brad told her over and over again that her investment was protected, but never followed through to prove it. That's what I expect from liying IBOs though.
As far as the paperwork, remember that Brad took her credit card over the phone and signed her up himself. She never saw the IBO rules, code of conduct, or sign up page until I showed her. What Brad did should have got him kicked out of the business.
She did get a refund, and a generous one at that. quixtar let her keep the product pack for free and refunded 100% of her start-up fee. Unfortuneatly, that won't be enough to save the oppurtunities reputation.
I think that I wrote that somewhere in the original post, I'll have to go back and check. Otherwise, you are doing a great job of pulling things out of context to make yourself look like a fool. But that isn't hard for fools to do.
~Chris
Yup, i did say that she got a refund:
"Quixtar handled it perfectly. They apologized and promised a full refund. They instructed her how to quit (she would have to write a letter and detail what happened) and that letter would get to the department that handled rule violations. Now the ball is in Quixtar court. She could also keep the product pack and samples at no cost. (Very generous).
"
Quit making things up.
"but it's not his fault she didn't get a refund already - it's her fault. "
For God sakes, you started down the "blame the victim" road, and the victim got her refund after all.
Will you stop at nothing to discredit people? It makes me so angry to see an IBO (Insider) read what a fellow IBO has done to a prospect and blame the prospect. Insider, You are a crook, just like all the other AMBOT crooks you associate with.
I emplore IBO's like Brad and others who really want to run thier business with honesty and integrety to distance themselve from the likes of you before you start to bring down their businesses as well.
Here's the quote as provided by rara -
Then she tells me, “He never told me anything about getting a refund. When he showed me the plan, he talked about how great the refund policy was and that it was backed by the FTC. When I told him that I was quitting, he never mentioned it at all. Thank God you told me this now, so that I get a refund.”
She got told there was a refund policy at the the plan, but for some reason had to what until "you told me this now" to get a refund?
I'm not defending her sponsor, and I have not done so. But c'mon, he told her about the refund, she even states that herself! And you even admit "my client was only an IBO for less then Two weeks, probably less the one week from how it sounded" - and you state she got her kit and products - so she got the damn paperwork.
So, she's an IBO for "less than a week", has all the official Quixtar stuff, admits being told about the refund policy when shown the plan, but is incapable of acting upon this policy until told again by someone else? Her sponsor did the wrong thing, but geez, talk about "victim mentality". But you see that again and again here - perhaps the reason there are so few people on the internet whinging about Quixtar, despite the high turnover, is that it's only the weak minded victims who want to go and blame somebody? All the rest have the guts and intelligence to take responsibility for their own lives. Seems to be the common thread of the whingers.
"IBO's will lie. So will car salespeople. So will insurance reps. So will store clerks. So will doctors & nurses. So will priests & pastors. I'm sure at some point, my former managers lied to me."
Once Car salesman, ins. reps, store cleks, doctors, nurses, priests and pastors start approaching me at the malls, bookstores, etc. and lie to sell their products, I'll make damaging post about them too.
So, be careful with who you're prospecting next. He/She might be the next 'perceptive'...
I'm still having a difficult time understanding how someone not getting a refund would make the IBO a crook. What percentage of someone's startup cost goes to the upline?
I believe the BV on a product intro pack is 55-60BV. So a Ruby would earn 25 - 28% of that 60BV. 20$ hardly seems like something I'd concern myself with. Also, what someone said above is true. There needs to be a written statement with signature to get a refund. The upline has nothing to do with that except offer it and maybe show someone how to do it.
I have people in my business who have somewhat "dissappeared" after registration. Should I concern myself with chasing after these people to get a refund? I also have a few IBOs who dissappeared and then I somehow bumped into them in the mall or a restaurant or something, and we get to talking. It's interesting, because I don't even bring up the business, but somehow they feel compelled to tell me why they haven't been to any meetings and quick to say "they haven't quit", just that some stuff came up. So when I do offer a refund, they say that they'll eventually do something.
Of my 5 years in business, only 3 have had enough "guts" (for lack of a better term) to call me and say that they're quitting and they want a refund. The others kind of just "faded" away.
As far as the registration, I go by the policy that I do not register anyone unless they purchase everything (registration, magazine, products). I keep this as a policy for my business, because from my experience, IBOs who started their business half @$$, tend to build it half-@$$. To me, if they build it half-@$$, then they will waste more money and time in the long run, which has happened almost everytime, I have allowed someone to register like that.
I do this for personals that I, myself, sponsor and do not make my downline abide by my policy. I break down the costs of registration upfront and let them know what is optional, but I also inform them that I typically do not sponsor IBOs who choose cut the costs of their business. I don't believe that I can go to McDonald's and say "I want this, but I don't want that." I know some will say that I can't do that, but I understand that I do not have to sponsor someone either. If the Ruby from above chooses to build his business that way, then it is his way. The lady could go to someone else and see if they'll let her get sponsored with just the registration.
(BTW, this comment is a response to an earlier post so if all this was discussed already, then, um..yeah)
"So, she's an IBO for "less than a week", has all the official Quixtar stuff, admits being told about the refund policy when shown the plan, but is incapable of acting upon this policy until told again by someone else? Her sponsor did the wrong thing, but geez, talk about "victim mentality". But you see that again and again here - perhaps the reason there are so few people on the internet whinging about Quixtar, despite the high turnover, is that it's only the weak minded victims who want to go and blame somebody? All the rest have the guts and intelligence to take responsibility for their own lives. Seems to be the common thread of the whingers."
She had NOT recieved the kit yet. Quixtar had shipped it, but she didn't recieve it.
The same situation happened to me recently. I purchased a new garage door opener from sears, and paid the $159 install fee. Before the sears guy could install the opener, the springs broke on the door. I called a door repairman, and he replaced the spring and adjusted the garage door opener. He told me I didn't need a new one, that the problem was the springs.
So I go back to sears to return the opener, and the sears clerk asks me; Do you want me to refund the install fee too?
WTF? Of course I do! Why would I want to pay the install fee if I didn't have you install the opener? What kind of dumb question is that?
This is the same situation. New IBO tells sponser she wants to quit, and he never says anything about a refund. He probably just wanted her to "fade away" like that crook Christian G. He made MONEY off of lying to her, and when she called him on it, he had the audacity to let it slide.
He should be thrown out.
"As far as the registration, I go by the policy that I do not register anyone unless they purchase everything (registration, magazine, products). I keep this as a policy for my business, because from my experience, IBOs who started their business half @$$, tend to build it half-@$$. To me, if they build it half-@$$, then they will waste more money and time in the long run, which has happened almost everytime, I have allowed someone to register like that."
Who told you it was half @$$ to register an IBO the way Quixtar allows?
The corporation creates the registration policy, not you. I bet you are too chickin sh!t to call the corp and tell them how you operate your business outside of their rules.
You are fine example how the business is just as abusive today as it was 30 years ago. I have bookmarked your comment so that I can show your abusive example to IBO's who "haven't seen it, so it must not be true."
You are right Fastshutter,
I am tired of CROOKS like "Insider" 'spin' everything to make Quixtar look good, AND justify everything.
Let's look at the one statement that "INSIDER" is basing his "victim-mentality" assumption on.
Then she tells me, “He never told me anything about getting a refund. When he showed me the plan, he talked about how great the refund policy was and that it was backed by the FTC. When I told him that I was quitting, he never mentioned it at all. Thank God you told me this now, so that I get a refund.”
Now, take a look at the last line. Is the lady saying anything specific about the "refund"? NO. All she says is, "thank god you told me THIS, so that.... Could it be, she is referring to the fact that Fastshutter told her about the "scam"? Could that be what she is referring to when she says "this"?
NO!! NO!! NO!!! That can't be! It's GOTTA BE the "Victim Mentality".
You know what, "INSIDER", you might think, you are doing the Quixtar Corpn. a favor, but everytime you try to pull off one your usual "nitpicking/semantics" stunt it only makes you and the corporation look foolish.
Anon,
I apologize for my abrasive tone. But REPEAT experiences like the ones I have experienced, makes you a little short-tempered. But I don't know where I indulged in any "name-calling"? I'd appreciate it if you point it out to me.
I get your point that people lie in all professions. But my beef, is not JUST the lies, and the deceptions.
My beef is that the corporation has been aware of this for a long time, but they just keep turning a blind eye to it.
My recent example of that couple trying to "prospect" me at my friend's sandwich shop was NOT to show that they sucked at prospecting. On the contrary, that was to show that, the business model is flawed. I have absolutely no animosity towards that couple - I only feel sorry for them. When IBOs run out of friends and family, they try to prospect strangers, and you see what happens....
It is inevitable. SATURATION. Read this excellent post about how it works. BUT, IBOs are NEVER told about that, and EVERY IBO gets the impression that he/she has a "level-playing-field". On the contrary, every "LAYER/GENERATION" of IBO finds it progressively more difficult than the preivous "GENERATION". They have to put in greater effort for the same reward.
Anon>> However, I must ask this: at what point in time did any of you guys (or the gal in Fastshutter's experience) ask "hey, what exactly does this sign up fee cover"? THAT's when the IBO should have outlined it for them.
At what point are people going to 'cover their own ass' and really look into this opportunity? Don't blindly sign up. That's the problem. People just quickly sign up without really understanding what it is they're signing up for. They don't understand the costs (signup & monthly) and they don't understand the time & consistent effort it will take for them to build a strong business.
However, what I don't see on ANY of the posts is where the "victims" take OWNERSHIP of their actions! If they can't afford the signup fee....SAY SO! ASK questions!!! ASK about what the signup fee covers. ASK whether there are any additional monthly costs! Do some REASEARCH! ASK for REFERENCES! Don't just blindly follow where someone is going and then cry because they lead you off of the bridge.
Anon, do you realize how ludicrous you sound??!! It's like that justification - "She deserved to be raped. She was dressed like a slut."
The problem was NOT that this lady could "not afford" the sign-up fee. The problem was that she was lied to, about what the MINIMUM fee was to sign up. The problem was that, when she found out about it, and called the sponsor, the sponsor ADAMANTLY maintained that the sign-up fee was $130 instead of $30.
Here's another thing. Most people who are prospected/signed-up by MLM reps are usually people they trust - friends, relatives, co-workers etc.... That usually tends to lower your guard.
You know Anon, I like you. Honestly. I do. You seem like a genuinely nice person. BUT, it seems to me, that you have a certain "tunnel-vision". I don't wish failure upon anybody, I want everybody to succeed - IN AN ETHICAL FASHION. Everytime, incidents like this happen, it is hurting YOUR chance at success, because people will evaluate you with the same bias.... They'll assume you are a crook too.
Think about it.
Oh, btw, Dawon, you crack me up ;-)... Your wise-crack about that "high-moose" had me rolling on the floor... LOL!
Perceptive,
Well....maybe not "name calling" per say. But you said "take off your rose-tinted glasses" and "get your head out of the sand". If you only knew me....you would know those comments don't apply.....
I actually think that if we met for coffee, we'd have a great "debate"/conversation! I think we might actually learn a little bit from each other. I know MY eyes have been opened a little from reading some of yours and a couple of other people's comments. Just makes me more aware.
By the way Perceptive, I think your analogy "she deserved to be raped because she dressed like a slut" was waaaaaay harsh & out of line. It was not a good analogy at all. I actually don't agree on this one. I stand by my point.
I do understand that the POINT was that she was LIED TO. I get that. Again, I cannot change that. I wish I could.
EVERY SINGLE TIME I've signed someone up in 3 years, I've reviewed EVERY line item with them and made it KNOWN what is optional and what is not and WHY. I let them know what I recommend but that it's completely optional. That's how me & my husband run our biz. I believe that lies and deception will ALWAYS come back to haunt you. So, I try to operate with honesty and integrity.
If one day, I have an upline who encourages me to lie or be deceptive or do anything that doesn't sit right with me....I will refuse & will let him/her know why. That would be reason for a serious discussion with my hubby.
Guys, life is just too darn short. We're in this simply to provide for our future, to help us pay debts, to "entertain me" while my kiddo's are in school ( ;-) ha ha!) and maybe, just maybe to bless our parents or other family members & help address our communites needs.
That's it! If it comes between us as husband and wife, or starts to take precedence over our kids or anything like that....well, we've already agreed we'd quit before that happened.
But, that's us. And hopefully, we're more like the majority of IBO's rather than the minority.
Anon,
You're a brainwashed, programmed, Ambot.
Get off the tapes, videos, and books and snap back to reality. I understand you've been programmed to think the way you do, and for that I am sorry. You're being taken advantage of and you don't even know it.
You can deny everything "negative" about AmQuix and dismiss it upon all the "negative" or "Broke" "Losers" with a J.O.B.
I think it's amazing how you can feel that anyone NOT in Amway/Quixtar somehow has no idea of reality.
The reality is PEOPLE ARE BEING SCAMMED! The TOOL business is a PYRAMID! There is no END USER.
You said "If one day, I have an upline who encourages me to lie or be deceptive or do anything that doesn't sit right with me....I will refuse & will let him/her know why. That would be reason for a serious discussion with my hubby."
No you wouldn't. Firstly, because you are taught to NEVER question your upline.
Secondly, and most importantly, you wouldn't even be able to tell if he WAS lying to you because they have you programmed to believe that, EVERYTHING they tell you is true.
You don't believe me? Fine. Who am I? I'm just some broke loser that runs his own company and works a "9 to 5" everyday. I don't have any "free" time. I don't have a private jet, nor a limousine, a Ferrari or a Yacht.
But maybe you'd believe a guy that made it to the Emerald Level?
You wanna read a book? Read "Merchants of Deception" Maybe then you'll see the light
There's no end user? Really? So when I listen to that tape or CD or read that book I'm not actually using them?
Big dog, you're taking your personal experiences and assuming they are universal. I've been an IBO for a long time and never once heard anyone outside of forums like this refer to anyone as a "broke loser". I'm taught and teach to always question upline. I want my downline questioning me, it's one of the best ways to learn, and if they don't learn, how would I ever be free?
Those tapes, books, videos, cd's etc are NOT retailed to anyone outside the business. Therefore there is no end user. NO RETAIL customer buys those tapes and tools. Only those affliated with Amway/Quixtar
Also NOBODY can make more than the guy at the top of that tool business. If you're not at a certain level you don't get a break on tools, functions, rallies etc.
Why don't you people see this is where the Diamonds make all their money? It's so blatant
Big Dog,
The tapes/books etc are a separate business. They are not Quixtar. In general only platinums and above earn any income from selling them. Anyone below platinum is "outside" the business of earning income. Furthermore, you need to look up what a "retail sale" is - it is simply a sale not for the purpose of resale - ie to an enduser. If I sell a tape to an IBO, and they purchase it for their use, then it is a retail sale for me. Secondly, just like in A/Q, it is quite possible for someone I introduce to earn more from "tools" than I do. If I sponsor someone and they develop say a Crown Ambassador business, they're going to be in much greater need of tools than I am, sell more of them, and thus earn more from volume discounts etc. There's nothing strange about this, it's normal business practice in any product related field.
"I've been an IBO for a long time and never once heard anyone ..."
Broken. Record.
My two year old does the same thing. If she is getting punished or doesn't get her way, she closes her eyes as tight as she can. Somehow she believes that if she dosen't see me, I must not be there.
I better check all the locks on the doors before Insider tries to sign her up in his business.
Another classic critbot non-response.
Insider, that's hogwash!
NO KIDDING, they're a seperate business, a business that is INSIDE of Q*. A "business" that is NOT told to respective IBO's when they join.
If these people want to have a Tool and tape business on the outside of AmQuix, fine, but why use the umbrella of Q* to sell these things?
You said " If I sell a tape to an IBO, and they purchase it for their use, then it is a retail sale for me"
Sorry, that's not a RETAIL customer, I thought IBO's were "business partners" or "associates". So which is it?
I guess they're "retail customers" when it's convenient in defending your cult huh?
You said -- "There's nothing strange about this, it's normal business practice in any product related field."
You and many other IBO's have no concept of what "Normal" business is
BG: "A "business" that is NOT told to respective IBO's when they join."
B> I was told. And upline just told a group of 40 last weekend some breakdowns of it.
Yeah, and I can fly.
Wow. Bigdog, you absolutely amaze me.
After the professional, tactful, open, honest comments to you, THAT'S how you respond?!?!? By telling me I'm a brainwashed Ambot??????? Ummmmm....I think you might be able to relate to Fastshutter's little two year old. Looks like you're on the same level of maturity.
Wow.
Let's clear a few things up Bigdog:
1) Check out www.quixtarfacts.com AND the new DVD that's out called Facts About Quixtar. This is a DVD that specifically addresses the critbots accusations on sites like these. And, before you go screaming it from the rooftops, I'll acknowledge that YES, it's probably a DIRECT RESPONSE from all the internet critics. So what?!? Truth is truth. It addresses tools profits and REALISTIC income levels & timeframes regarding ONLY QUIXTAR.
2) I personally, have NEVER EVER called anybody outside of this business a BROKE LOSER. STOP PUTTING WORDS INTO MY MOUTH DOG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Whenever my husband starts to talk that way (we are all human and we all slip), I gently remind him that we were once that ignorant & brainwashed into what the general society taught us all our lives. We've simply learned a new way to look at things. We just took our lives for granted before. Now, we have had our eyes opened and have learned to think beyond our own backyard.
3) We do (and will continue to) question our upline. WE ARE NOT ROBOTS DOG!!! If he/she says something that is not logical or we are concerned about it, we will ask other upline (or even crossline - I know...don't faint....we're actually friends with a bunch of crossline) AND/OR we will RESEARCH it!!!! There are plenty of places to find out about the truth.
4) We were told about the tools profit. We know that the higher pins make a lot of profit from the tool flow in THEIR business. WE TELL ALL OF OUR NEW IBO'S THAT THE HIGHER PINS GET A SECOND INCOME FROM THE PDAP'S & THAT THE TOOLS ARE OPTIONAL!!! I really don't see what's so awful about that. It's like a guy going to work for IBM. He moves up the food chain and eventually gets to a level that starts to pay him a SECOND income in the form of STOCK OPTIONS. So, the more his minions sell, the more money he makes in BOTH arenas....products AND stock options. He has EARNED that second income. It's not told to new IBM employees. They don't discuss it over lunch. It's not offered nor attainable to the "average employee". However, they could try to earn it. One big difference though....it's MUCH more attainable to earn the second bonus income through Quixtar/WWDB than it is through IBM or Microsoft or Walmart Exxon or any other major corporation.
5) I will NOT read Merchants of Deception. It's written by the same MORON who went on Dateline and told the world that he decided to quit his day job when he was only making $38,000.00 a year through his Quixtar (Amway?) business!!! WHO DOES THAT?!?!? I'm sure our upline would never recommend we quit our job at such a low level of annual income. HE decides to quit at that income level and then turns around and blames the business??? Or even the training & support organization??? WHAT?!?!? What an IDIOT!!!
So, he wrote a book & is now profiting off of it. Big time. Give me a break...
And the other former diamonds? One of whom is Bo Short...who was KICKED OUT!!! And now he's turned around and has created his own 'motivational' & training company for PROFIT!!!
Sorry, NO credibility there.
Dog, I was just starting to somewhat respect you. But this last comment was the last straw. It really solidified the fact that you are a cynical, bitter, angry person who is pissed 'cuz he thinks he got screwed.
What a way to go through life. Good luck dude. I'll pray for ya....
Anon
Hey Anon,
Thanks for the posts and your point of view. I enjoy reading them, and knowing how well you run your business, and that there are many others doing the same thing.
Keep it up!
-B
Hey BigDog,
I think you have a GREAT head on your shoulders, and you are a very sensible guy.
BUT, for once, I agree with Anon. Calling her an Ambot was totally uncalled for. If anything, I think she HAS been showing original thought, as opposed to the usual regurgitated tapespeak. I think the gist of her arguments so far has been that she herself has been conducting her business with integrity. And that she personally has not seen any of the abuses that she has read about.
Although it's easy to lose your temper in the heat of the moment, let's all be a little more civil. Mea Culpa here - I am probably one of the WORST offenders here... My apologies.
BUT, Anon, I have to VEHEMENTLY disagree with your suggestion that Eric Scheibeler was a moron to quit his job while making $38,000 from the Amway business. It WAS NOT that simple. He clearly was in a cult. He was heavily influenced. He was working 100 hours a week. It got to the point where he thought that he couldn't sustain his Amway business UNLESS AND UNTIL he quit his day-job and went full-time and hard into his Amway business. Plus his upline, who he counseled with advised him to do so. When you are in a cult, you can make some pretty damn irrational decisions. "He is making a profit from his book"???? Where did you hear THAT??? The book is FREE to download on his website! Bo Short started his own "Training and Motivational Company"???? Where did you hear THAT???!!! Bo Short started his own MLM, and from what I can tell they offer FREE training to all their reps.
But then, you knew all that didn't you?
Okay, that last line was sarcasm, but don't you get on your high-horse (or in Dawson's case, high-moose) and accuse me of "name-calling", OK. LOL!!
But then I digress. Do you see anything wrong with the above picture? You dismissed two "critics" off-hand based on false, or incomplete information. Remember, one of the most important rules of business is that it's the "negative" aspects of a business that will "break" a business. Shouldn't you be aware of them? Remember that comment about "tunnel-vision"? Was I off-base, here?
Don't dismiss MOD, reading it can be very enlightening. It is a gripping read, and some of the stuff will send chills down your spine! What do you have to lose? You say you are open-minded enough to consider the opposing point of view - so take my suggestion and download MOD and read it.
@Anon
Where can you get that DVD?
You're right perceptive.
I lost my cool. I'd just finished reading that book and got pissed off.
Anon;
My sincere apologies. I didn't mean to go off on you like that. If anyone on this board has been sincere in his/her attempt to build their business with integrity and passion, it's been you. I was way off base for my irrational comments towards you.
Please accept my sincere apology.
I was so mad I guess I took it out on the first persons post I saw, and it happened to be yours. That was wrong of me. So once again, I digress, and I'm truly sorry.
To continue;
I was speaking in the heat of the moment. As soon as I posted it, and read it, I realized I was way out of line. Hindsight is always 20/20.
Again I am sorry.
Perceptive and Anon - Eric Scheibler reports only net income from Amway in his book. As a former federal auditor, you can bet he claimed every last cent of tax deductions possible. So his real Amway income was likely much much higher.
Big Dog - I have founded and own or part-own multiple companies. I have plenty of business experience. Amazing how you think it's wrong for IBOs to be my customers when they're buying a CD, because we're "business partners" etc, but it's perfectly OK when they buy A/Q products from me?
How many IBOs do you need telling you they don't do what you think all IBOs do before you think maybe it's the truth? There has been millions of IBOs in the US over the years. Last month alone tens of thousands of people were shown this business by active IBOs. 30,000 or so joined. Don't you think that if everyone operated the way you apparently experienced that maybe there'd be more than the handful of folk posting on boards like this? More than just the few hundred different "negative" posters that are around on the internet?
Open your mind to other possibilities
Brad,
Thank you. I really do try to do all with integrity & honesty. From my husband to my kids to my family to my business. The way I figure it...GOD see's all. I cannot hide it from the one who REALLY counts!
Perceptive,
Thank you for the supportive & honest words. Also, you know what?!? You're probably right. I also reacted in the HEAT of the moment (I'm a very passionate person!) and I took bits of information I remembered from the Dateline Expose (re: Eric S.) & from what I've read on other sites (re: Bo S.) and I pieced the rest together myself. MY BAD. I shouldn't have done that. I actually may download MOD. Not sure yet. I'm trying to keep negative out of my mind but in so doing....I cannot keep truth out, if indeed, that's what it is.
Bigdog,
Thank you for the apology. No problem. Please forgive me as well for some of the words I used. Anyway, we are both passionate about it due to our own experiences in and out of the business.
I have been "around the block" a few times and just don't know what our other options would be other than just going to get a part-time job to fill my time. My husband and I so far, have a blast working this biz together. Our marriage gets stronger through it. I realize there are other ways to make a marriage stronger...for us...the time spent together dealing with challenges, showing the plan, getting excited, setting goals, making plans & building dreams....just adds a certain quality to our lives that we love.
We've also made great friendships. Friendships that are just as strong today with some of our FORMER IBO's. Life isn't about this business. But this business helps us enjoy life.
Thanks & God bless,
Anon
Insider, I'm sick of arguing this.
You said -- "Amazing how you think it's wrong for IBOs to be my customers when they're buying a CD, because we're "business partners" etc, but it's perfectly OK when they buy A/Q products from me?"
IBO's are NOT retail customers, no matter what you think.
Go back and look at the 1979 case FTC Vs. Amway about being a pyramid scheme.
The ONLY reason it's not considered a pyramid is because Amway/Quixtar says it's system is based on RETAIL sales to CUSTOMERS. Amway/Quixtar says it enforces a 70% and 10 customer rule which deters unlawful inventory loading. I guess Q*'s is 50PV a month.
Q* also stated that they wouldn't give a bonus check to any IBO that did not have the necessary sales volume to RETAIL customers.
Now we all know that's not enforced at all. And we also know that IBO's are NOT condsidered RETAIL customers. Making money mainly off distributors is illegal, and that's EXACTLY what the tool "business" does.
So please do us all a favor and stop with the BS.
Big Dig, read [url=http://www.webraw.com/quixtar/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2447]this thread[/url] on the forums and [url=http://www.thetruthaboutquixtar.com/index.php/content/view/710/37/]this article[/url] on my site before you continue embarrassing yourself repeating long discredited critbot speak.
Big Dog, read this thread on the forums and this article on my site before you continue embarrassing yourself repeating long discredited critbot speak. You seem smarter than that.
BG: IBO's are NOT retail customers, no matter what you think.
B> You're right, they are not customers at the suggested retail price... but that which they purchase and consume is, by definition, a purchase by an END USER.
Anon>> I'm trying to keep negative out of my mind but in so doing....I cannot keep truth out, if indeed, that's what it is.
You can take it with a pinch of salt. BUT, what harm can it do for you to read it? Again, goes back to my original point, shouldn't you always consider the "negative" aspects of a business because that is what will "break" a business?
Second point. And I would like to preface this with a request that you take this statement with a totally open mind - think of me as a TRUE well-wisher.
Just reflect on your above statement - "I'm trying to keep NEGATIVE out of my mind".... Do you see anything wierd about that statement? Now, I am not going to call you "brainwashed", or a "cult-member" or anything of that sort. BUT, step back for a second and think about it.
That's classic CULT-TERMINOLOGY.
"Don't propagate NEGATIVITY."
"Keep NEGATIVE out of your mind."
Don't statements like these creep you out in the least bit? You sound like a VERY rational person, yet I hear a statement like THIS from you. To be perfectly honest, it SCARES the heck out of me..........
Shouldn't the question be -
"Is this information TRUE?" -
instead of -
"Is this information NEGATIVE?"
Shouldn't you be considering both "POSITIVE" and "NEGATIVE" information (that is TRUTHFUL), and weigh each to see how they outweigh each other, to make an informed BUSINESS DECISION?
Yeah, the Pro-AmQuix folk will dismiss CULT charges quickly....
Just a thought...
perceptive,
That's exactly what I was trying to explain to my sponsor, but for the life of me, it seemed he couldn't understand that simple thing. I even used examples from the Bible, you know, how it is full of "negative" about great men of God like Moses, David, Paul, Peter... the list goes on. But that didn't make a difference to him. He couldn't see that it's the TRUTH that's important, not some silly "negative" or "positive" label. I was quite alarmed. It was after that I realized he was in much deeper than I thought. But BWW can't be a cult now, can it?
You guys say how anon is really sound and rational, so I'm sure she'll understand, unlike my sponsor.
rara,
Your right. I see these posts on here from others that were not associated with the BWW system. But the ones that were like myself and you and BIGDOG. Go too a Winters OH EXCUSE ME! LTD function and thats a serious brainwashing cult because I was one. WALKING TALKING BREATHING you name it.
And I never read a newspaper,watched the news,went too any sports events. Because those are all NEGATIVE and arent delaying gratification. I know ANON this is only my experience and Insider please dont fill me with Network 21. We all in BWW have heard from stage multiple times that if you quit this business YOU ARE A BROKE LOSER!!
Perceptive, Rara & David;
I agree. With it all. I believe in TRUTH (as much as we KNOW that it is truth). I do not want to be one of those people who stick their fingers in their ears, close their eyes and say "la la la la la, I can't hear you, la la la". Like a 2 year old....LOL!
To me, going to a movie (as long as it's not X rated!), going to a hockey game, and doing some of the other things David mentioned...to me, those are not "negative" activities. I have not experienced being told not to do them or being scolded for doing them. But again, that's MY experience.
I think what the AMO's mean by "letting in 'negative'", is when someone or some tv show or some radio station or some book is trying to tell you that you cannot do it, or that you are not worthy of the rewards, or that it's different and strange...therefore it's a cult.
For example, when I say I want to keep negative things out of my head (probably very poor wording on my part)....here's an example: I am sitting on my couch in the late evening with a snack, kids are in bed and I'm flipping through channels on the tv. I come across "guys gone wild" or a crazy Jerry Springer show or some other sexually explicit or violent or even anti-Christian show. My curiosity makes me want to sit and watch it. But that will only put "negative" into my head & my home. I'm a believer in surrounding myself with positive words, music, images, etc. That will have a much better impact on me & my family than if I'm not aware of what I'm exposing us to.
I hope that makes sense. I am more than willing to (and quite frankly, WANT to) be exposed to the TRUTH.
Okay Anon, I am a little confused here. I asked you to keep your mind open and download "Merchants Of Deception" and read it.
You respond with this quote:
Anon>> I actually may download MOD. Not sure yet. I'm trying to keep negative out of my mind but in so doing....I cannot keep truth out, if indeed, that's what it is.
Seems to me like you were suggesting that since the MOD book is Anti-Quixtar, it is "negative"...??
Then, in response to my suggestion that, that sounds very cultish, you give this response:
Anon>> For example, when I say I want to keep negative things out of my head (probably very poor wording on my part)....here's an example: I am sitting on my couch in the late evening with a snack, kids are in bed and I'm flipping through channels on the tv. I come across "guys gone wild" or a crazy Jerry Springer show or some other sexually explicit or violent or even anti-Christian show. My curiosity makes me want to sit and watch it. But that will only put "negative" into my head & my home.
Do you see a contradiction there?
Anon>> I think what the AMO's mean by "letting in 'negative'", is when someone or some tv show or some radio station or some book is trying to tell you that you
YES!!!! Also add that Asafa Powell ad..i liked that one too. Its gonna be a great fiscal year =)
Posted by: Christian | October 1, 2006 5:10 AM