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September 1, 2006
Allan Tui is a Fraud
By QBlog in Web Initiative
I don't mind criticism but if you're going to dish it out, at least have the decency to be honest about it.
A guy calling himself Allan Tui made a comment on Robert Scoble's blog recently criticizing some of the things I've done. Fine. No biggie right?
In fact, I think it's great that he wants to criticize me and examine my work. But I also think it's great to do the same to Allan Tui. Let's examine his comments and I'll add my own comments in bold.
Allan Tui says - My only experience with blogs was the last presidential election and I concluded blogs were no different then people standing in the town square hurling insults at each other.
That would have been the 2004 elections, nearly two years ago. Ok, so no blogs in two years.
I have a good friend who obviously excels in his efforts based upon the people who have hired him who convinced me to read your book.
Even though it was difficult for me to admit I may have been wrong, the logic and clarity in your book made complete sense.
Classic ego-stroking. It's a good tactic but it's more of an audience play than anything in this case. Or maybe it's genuine, but read on and the BS gets easier to spot.
Tonight, to celebrate his victory, he decided I was ready for the next step and took me to your blog.
What a celebration! A visit to Scoble's blog. The guy obviously can post a comment on a blog, visit political blogs and form an opinion but he needs his "friend" to take him to Scoble's blog for a "celebration?" Wha?
There were some obviously emotional comments about Quixtar and a long post from a Quixtar consumer advocate named Eric Jannsen. My tutor showed me how to go to his site and the front page talks about a Quixtar web strategy to drown out the other side.
First of all, spell my damn name correctly. Try this - select, copy, paste. Thanks. Secondly, his "tutor showed me how to go to his site?" Who calls their friend tutor and who the hell has to be shown how to get to a damn site? I'll tell you who. Nobody except people who are pretending to be web newbies to earn a little "outsider's perspective" street cred. Puh-leeze!
After a five minute lesson on Google bombing we went to Quixtar’s home site and then spent the next hour on other corporate sites affiliated with Quixtar.
Spent an HOUR on corporate sites affiliated with Quixtar? Like what? BWW? Team? WWDB? All those require a login. How does Allan Tui and his "tutor" spend an hour on restricted sites? Maybe they're on really slow dial-up?
I discovered they were part of a multinational company that sells billions of dollars a year in product that appeared to be mostly consumables with an emphasis on their nutrition line. They appear to have a good standard in consumer protection via a substantial return and refund policy for those that are dissatisfied. Quixtar is actually a successor company to Amway in North America while Amway operates in most of the rest of the world. In short, if I was interested in purchasing or involvement I could find the information.
Really? It took Allan and his "tutor" an hour to find all that out? Some tutor. Took me 30 seconds. And why does Allan, who's learning about Quixtar for the first time from my blog, write about it like some press release? Hmmmm? Not a shred of skepticism.
My expert explained to me SEO and showed me how Quixtar and the other sites optimize for better search engine ratings but said he could see nothing they were doing that was not industry accepted.
So now the "tutor" is an expert? Great. And that expert obviously didn't spend that hour of research reading Mark Glaser's article about Quixtar.
We then went back to the site that represented themselves as a Quixtar consumer advocate and waded through the blogs. After thirty minutes I realized I was back in the town square again. Most everyone is screeching about Quixtar with little of no substance and it appears a few Quixtar people trying to respond rationally and getting trashed for their temerity.
Really? Those poor little Quixtar people trying so desperately to have a nice, civil conversation are getting screeched at by the mean Quixtar critics. Sure, those critics can be total assholes but some of the nastiest comments ever posted on my blog came from alleged "Quixtar people." Shall I remind you of Qrush?
I realize corporate sites only give us corporate speak. I wish they didn’t but everyone understands that is what we wade through. What is the premise for the belief that there is more value in acquiring information by wading through people’s rantings on blog sites, such as the one I visited, rather then a corporate site. Neither is transparent but as least I can recognize the corporate site for what it is and it is also has legal obligations that don’t extend to blogs.
Did Allan really just say what I think he said? Even after reading Scoble's book? Me thinks he didn't really read the book. The value of blogs is that they aren't edited, controlled and filtered by the gatekeepers. There's lots of crap but there's also real power which is exactly part of Scoble's point in the post that Allan Tui was commenting on. Did he read the post I wonder?
Also, what legal obligations do corporations have that bloggers don't have? Suddenly corporations are required to tell the whole truth about their business and bloggers get to lie? Bah! Corporations were built on PR spin and truth distortions. It's the American way. And yes, bloggers get to do the same thing but where's the inequity here? Doesn't it seem odd that Allan Tui is running to the defense of corporate America on his very first, and only, blog post?
I apologize for the length of this. My “coach” is telling me this is improperly lengthy for a blog. Your book is the only thing I have read that made sense to me and while I believe in the value and power of word of mouth discussion I don’t think I am the only person who doesn’t know how to discern where to get accurate information from blogs.
So now the expert is a "coach." And Scoble's book is the only thing he read that made sense to him? What kind of statement is that?
So, yeah. I absolutely believe that Allan Tui is a fabrication of some rabid Quixtar defender who's lying about his connection to blogging and the business to convince others that he's providing a glimpse into what the average Joe American perceives from blogs like this one.
I call them like I see them and Allan Tui's whole comment reads exactly like the poorly written copy that Quixtar churned out during its Google Bombing heyday. I say Allan Tui is a fraud!
BS Meter Broken
The reason I even made this post is because one IBO's BS meter appears to be broken and he latched onto Allan Tui's comment like it was the benchmark for a Gallup Opinion Poll. Now, I admit my BS meter is a little over-sensitive but come on, can anyone read Allan Tui's comment and really conclude that it's some pristine, unsolicited insight into the mind of those unfamiliar with blogs, Quixtar or the raging Quixtar controversy played out on blogs like this one?
And as an aside, doesn't it seem odd that Allan spent at least two hours with his friend-expert-tutor-coach at the computer learning about blogs AND Quixtar? Together! I can see it now:
"Hey Allan, what are you doing tonight?"
"Not a thing friend-expert-tutor-coach. Want to come over and learn me something?"
"Sure, I'll be right there. And I'm bringing an extra mouse this time so we can both use the computer at the same time. Last night was great wasn't it?"
"It sure was. I learned all about the great business opportunity known as Quixtar which enables regular people like you and me to make some extra money!"
"Yes, that was great fun. Tonight I thought we could learn all about Dick DeVos."
"Who is Dick DeVos? He sounds like a really great guy who would do a wonderful job leading a group of people, maybe even an entire state, into prosperity and bliss."
"Don't jump ahead Allan. You're going to spend the next four hours sitting in my lap at the computer desk while I show you all about Dick DeVos. And I'll even let you post a comment."
"Thanks friend-expert-tutor-coach!"
Comments
Qblog, maybe you should post a topic on insider's blog and name it "myth busted". I read the article and thought big whoopies, one guy's opinion. Well, then again, you all know how much weight insider puts on his opinion.
If there's one thing we've learned in the past, it's that Quixtar is really, REALLY bad at internet posturing, and here's why: imagine you're a high-schooler who wants to go out for the baseball team, but you've never played baseball before in your life, so you go to the library and check out a book on how to play baseball. You read, re-read, and re-re-read the book, until you understand the mechanics of every baseball action hands down. However, when the time comes to step on the field and actually perform a throw or a swing, you're leaps and bounds BEHIND the guys who have been actually performing the mechanics all of their lives, even if those guys have never read one book on the sport.
Quixtar understands the theorys of why internet posturing SHOULD work, they just don't have the first-hand experience to actually make it work. That's why, when they do what all signs point to should work, it doesn't work for crap. They learned it...but they just don't get it. Their terrible Internet performance is, ironically enough, the difference between "book smarts" and "street smarts," which they so proudly preach as one of an IBOs benefits over someone who mearly studies business in college.
Does that make sense at all?
Yes, not only does it make perfect sense, it is absolutely right.
That's it? That's all you got? You don't like what he says so therefore he's a fraud and a liar?
And not a single piece of evidence? None? Nothing? Zip? Zada?
Sounds a lot like the critics are again "screeching ... with little of no substance"
And what evidence do you have that he's not a fraud?
Here's where it stands. Nobody knows for sure if this guy is pumping out BS or really giving honest input. So, the only way to make that determination is to apply the BS meter. Does this guy pass the smell test?
The answer is clearly no in my book. Obviously it smells fine to you.
But let's talk of credibility for a moment. When pointing out objective, unsolicited comments about Quixtar in which to construct an assumption wouldn't it make sense to at least put it through the smell test? It would to me. Where's the skepticism? Where's the critical thinking? Where's the BS meter?
Apparently absent because to apply it would at the very least cast doubt on your point.
But that's fine. Produce evidence that Allan Tui never heard of Quixtar before July 11, 2006, and I'll gladly admit my errors.
There's an old saying that goes something like this: "If it looks like a duck, walks like a duck and quacks like a duck then it's probably a duck."
I know this is a little off topic, but I followed the link in the following sentence....
"Really? It took Allan and his "tutor" an hour to find all that out? Some tutor. Took me 30 seconds"
Once there, the first thing I would have done if I was being prospected is click on the link for 'New Products' just to see what kind of stuff they had to offer in general. So I did.
The very first thing out of my mouth would then have been - why is everthing so expensive???? The first impression would have sent me running.
That's it? That's all you got? You like what he says so therefore he's right and a good source of independent information?
And not a single piece of evidence? None? Nothing? Zip? Zada?
You blew Insider and your poor response proves it.
"if this is a consumer advocate site then Ralph Nader is a capitalist."
This comparison offends me...
This comparison offends me...>
Yeah, this offends me, too. Everyone knows Ralph Nader is just some kook who keeps running for President and with no chance of ever winning. Read "Do As I Say, Not As I Do." It's quite funny.
QBlog - "Spent an HOUR on corporate sites affiliated with Quixtar? Like what? BWW? Team? WWDB? "
B> Try these corporate sites accessed from the front page, cause it seems like you missed a few, read through them, and get back to us in an hour :-)
-BBBOnline:
-RSASecurity
-D&B
-IBOAI
-IBO Facts
-Sister Corporation (ooo AMWAY, international)
-Alticor
Links from there:
Amway Grand Plaza Hotel
Alticor Charities
Nutrilite
Artistry
eSPring
Alticor Family of Companies
Quixtar
Amway Corp
Access Business Group
Quixtar Network Index (over 50 links here)
History of Quixtar
About Quixtar
Which include links to their eCommerce partners:
Microsoft
Scene7
isd corporation
CBS Solutions
Lakeview Technology
MCSI
Coroporate Citizenship
Easter Seals
US Dream Academy
The American Red Cross
PayKids
Vitamin Relief USA - Children First
And the Inside Quixtar Blog.
Sorry QBlog, i didnt see a single link to BWW, WWDB, et al. When i looked for credibility on Quixtar (which i was instructed to do at my first plan) and if i were to do it again, no offense, but i would weight the business associations and network Quixtar has a little more than your "consumer advocate" blog.
This blog post seems rather empty, and much more cynical, or whiny, than it is critical or "sniff-testing".
Brad, most of those are part of Quixtar's corporate site.
This site has a lot more substance than insider's with him and Tex being the primary posters.
No, they are mostly corporate affiliated sites, exactly as Allan Tui described. One could easily spend an hour going through these sites. It takes 20 to 30 minutes just to watch the slide shows on the front page of www.alticor.com alone. One wonders if Eric Janssen has ever bothered to look at them. His response to my blog post indicates he hasn't.
What person, outside of corporate hacks, uses the term, "corporate AFFILIATED sites?"
I'm with Qblog. "...it's probably a duck."
GUYS SIMPLY DO THE MATH.... A conference with 10000 people packed in.... all of them promised that they can become millionaires, A millionaire equals $1000000.00, but there is 10000 people , so 10000 x $1000000.00 = $10000000000 , yea
$10 Billion Dollars...That's right. Well Quixtar did $3 Billion Dollars in sales since 1999 and the extra $7 billion(which doesn't exist) in order to pay only 10000 people a million dollars does not make any F****** sense, its 2006, quixtar net worth should have exceeded atleast $10 Billion. Right....:) but there more and more people being recruited the chosen 10000 people didn't come close to even getting the GOOOODDDDS. Please don't Join this So callled "Dream" and not everybody put on this earth is not meant to be rich. If You Want to be Rich invent or create something new that does not exists and start your company then you can "Be your own Boss" :)) thanks For reading
Anonymous email for comments pimparun@yahoo.com
John, there is an enormous difference between "can" and "will".
I've been an a conference of over 5000 people where the keynote speaker said anybody their "can" be a Diamond, but we know that at most only 1 or 2 of the people there will.
It's an opportunity, not a guarantee.
"I've been an a conference of over 5000 people where the keynote speaker said anybody their "can" be a Diamond, but we know that at most only 1 or 2 of the people there will."
Yes,IBOFIGHTBACK, exactly the point. That's because the conferences have NOTHING to do with YOUR success, and everything to do with the "kingpins'" success. If they worked, they'd be producing MANY successes.
Your Boy FLEAK:
I actually don't think Q corporate is as dumb as you're making them out to be. It's been a funny coincidence that all sorts of quixtar "supporters" have appeared right around the time Dick DeVos got serious about running for governor of Michigan. No, I think they're smarter than you give them credit for. ;)
If it isnt a governers campaign, then they are doing it because of Accreditation!
If it isnt Accreditation, then they are doing it because of the new fiscal year!
If it isnt the new fiscal year, they are doing it because of 'the' lawsuit!
If it isnt a lawsuit, they are doing it because of los issues (winters out)
If they arent doing it because of los issues, they are doing it because qblog has #2 position on search!
If it isnt because of position, it's because IBOAI has been fighting back critics!
If it isnt in response to IBOAI, how bout becuase it is Fall... yes, season of change and pretty leaves... that must be it.
I mean, seriously people, this whole conspiricy, "look at all the change, it cause of ____" is kinda ridiculous. Change isnt new. You may be right about the gubernatoral election, thats fine, but i find it ridiculous how common it is to have comments claiming some sort of elaborate plot to cover something, or divert someones, (whose?) attention? some bloggers on a website?... some democratic voters? i don't know where people get off thinking that a corporation is changing its ways, or comming up with new ideas, to appease or react to some individuals, or a group of individuals, every time. Perhaps some change could just be a good business move? Because i doubt every boardroom meeting the corporate is sitting around a table, with QBlog booted up, discussing hte latest 'How Quixtar got it wrong AGAIN' posts. I'm sure their discussions mention current progress, and long term vision just a TINY bit more than someone's opinion on a blog, or political stance on up-coming elections... Dick DeVos winning this election, or losing it, has very little impact on the long term success of Alticor, and i'm sure they recognize this.
Nite.
Quixmire,
Who died and made you god? Who gave you the right to call someone who makes $100 a month from Quixtar, exactly what they wanted, a failure? Who gave you the right to call a parent who went platinum so they could stay home with the kids, rather than return to work, a failure?
Your arrogance makes me sick.
FYI readers
insider = IBOfightback
insider better use his own logic and go take a class in logic. It's like saying anyone can become president of the USA, just that few will do what it takes to get it done.
BTW, isn't posting under two identities against Qblog rules?
insider:
I responding to this post by IBOFIGHTBACK:
"John, there is an enormous difference between "can" and "will".
"I've been an a conference of over 5000 people where the keynote speaker said anybody their "can" be a Diamond, but we know that at most only 1 or 2 of the people there will.
What this person is saying here is that everyone "can" be diamond, but only one or two out of the whole crowd of 5000 will. (I believe the actual odds are much worse than that.) This was the specific "success" to which I was referring. No slight was meant to anyone else, especially those who have set reasonable goals and are meeting them.
On the other hand, the seminars I attended were never about reasonable goals.
Joecool: re IBOfightback - apologies, I try to post as insider here, was an error on my part.
There is no such multiple identity rule for the blog.
My bad, thought different identities was against the rules. Oh well.
What? Brad, you call out 32 different web properties or classes of properties and you don't reference RealQuixtarBlog?? Sigh. I know, it's included somewhere in some web site index. But you called out Beth's blog and not mine, so now I'm feeling a little inadequate.
In response to the original post here, however, I'd just like to go on record that nobody here at the corporation posted under the name Allan Tui (that I know of, anyway). I too was very interested in what he had to say and, frankly, I took his experience at face value (the way I'm expected to take all of the other experiences posted on this site and others).
Kia>> I too was very interested in what he had to say and, frankly, I took his experience at face value (the way I'm expected to take all of the other experiences posted on this site and others).
But Kia, don't you think there's just too much of a "fishy smell" coming from that "Alan Tui" post? The whole friend-expert-tutor-coach is absolutely laughable, don't you think?
Should I cut and paste each one of the points Eric Janssen made in the above post? Let's face it, the BS is just overwhelming. Quixtar is actually a successor company to Amway in North America?? Which "OUTSIDER" with no prior knowledge of Amway/Quixtar talks like that? That is a line straight from Corporation's PR Dept. The whole thing reads like a damn Press Release. And you expect us to believe that you took it at face-value
Riiigghttt.... PUHLEEEEZZZZZ....
Kia>> In response to the original post here, however, I'd just like to go on record that nobody here at the corporation posted under the name Allan Tui (that I know of, anyway).
Or maybe, Kia, it's a pathetic PR attempt by that THIEF, Dick Devos' gubernatorial campaign? That's a very real possibility, don't you think?
my bad Kia
I added the last blog entry as just a bonus because it happened to be on the last page i looked at. Mind you, i only clicked on a few links to find all those i posted here.
Here's a shout out to Kia's page:
http://www.realquixtarblog.com/
:-)
"Who gave you the right to call someone who makes $100 a month from Quixtar, exactly what they wanted, a failure?" -- Insider
Insider et al,
In your LOS, do such "successes" get "edified" for being successful or get a slap in the wrist for not dreaming big?
balaji
Certainly not a slap on the wrist. Indeed, listen to Jim Dornan giving a metaphorical slap on the wrist to those with the "not dreaming big enough" type of approach
Thanks Brad. My self-esteem has been restored. Soon, I believe, RealQuixtarBlog's presentation will actually warrant your "shout out." There's work going on under the hood (and, since I'm not a mechanic, I'm just sitting back and waiting for the tinkering to be done!)
With regards to other comments about PR-speak, let me be very clear: ANY official corporate response would come through me or be done with my knowledge, and the Allan Tui post was not one of those responses. Could it have been done by a corporate person? Maybe, but I doubt it. Could it be done by a DeVos campaign poseur? I suppose, but I think his supporters have bigger fish to fy and certainly didn't do anything in that post to help his campaign.
Nobody has to repeat what Qblog posted, I read it. As I said, when I first read the post I was surprised to see a supposedly third party person share that viewpoint. That said, unlike most of the regulars in here, I didn't immediately suspect foul play. As I've stated before in my blog, however, I'm an optimist and typically look for the good in people (waiting to prove me wrong).
In a past life I ran "introduction to the internet" courses. In those I ran in to people, especially older academics, who could quite easily of written the post Allan Tui wrote. Same style, same attitude. So, like Kia, I had and have no problem believing it is a real post. And I've seen no evidence at all to indicate otherwise, just Eric's little rant.
IBO,
You can check out more entries on this blog, also the link to the forum (at the top of the page), as well as the links to other sites on the right of the page.
Good luck.
But leave it to Insider to use those comments from Allan to try a paint of picture of an independent view of blogs. I love it that Insider actually wants those researching this business to read his fact and myth articles and he bases his articles on many comments like the one described here.
All this from the guy that was slamming Larsen over his sources. I guess it's true in Amway as well as Quixtar "Do what I say, not what I do."
Posted by: Drew | September 1, 2006 5:43 AM