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August 29, 2006
What if?
By Drew in Quixtar
What if there was no Quixtar Blog? What if there was no amquix.info? What if there was no MLM Survivor's club? What if the many sites and blogs about Quixtar/Amway did not exist?
Quixtar has been making quite a few changes lately and for the most part I think many advocates and critics agree that it is for the betterment of the Quixtar opportunity. Sure there will always be those advocates who still want to call the critics losers, and some critics who won't applaud anything the corporation does. But, for those of us that just want to see the abuse by uplines come to an end, I think we agree that the corporation has finally taken some bold steps and frankly that is the crowd I am writing to in this article.
After seeing the post Qblog did concerning the new advertisement campaign by Quixtar I couldn't help but wonder whether Quixtar would have taken any of these steps if blogs and sites like this one never existed. Would Quixtar have implemented their accreditation program if there was no stories on the internet of people being abused by their upline?
Now don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to say that I can prove Quixtar made these moves because of the sites and blogs on the internet, but the circumstantial evidence is pretty compelling. Obviously the blogs and sites on the Internet were having some sort of impact hence the reason Quixtar decided to launch their own "Web Reputation Task Force". That of course didn't work out to well for them in the end, but I think you would have to be crazy if you thought that would be the end of it.
So tell us what you think. Would Quixtar still have taken the steps they have taken recently if the "critical" sites and blogs didn't exist? Should IBOs who are praising Quixtar for the new programs they have implemented be giving some credit to the "critics" for having a role in bringing about some of this change? I mean let's be honest, there wasn't exactly a movement by "plugged in" IBOs to tell others about the abuses. At any rate, I now leave this to the readers to discuss and debate.
Comments
Maybe there'll be a movie about Eric and Scott. :)
I also suspect that since the word about Quixtar is getting out even more, there was pressure on the Corp to do something. I mean, after Rich DeVos's directly speaking tapes, it doesn't seem like they were trying to do anything else. (Maybe they were scared?) And that was over 20 years ago.
I suspect that the Corp was in bed with the kingpins, not because they liked them, but maybe it was like being held hostage by those without whom the Corp wouldn't be making any money.
Of course, this is all speculation.
Anyway, I hope the accreditation thing actually changes things and that the ad campaign increases awareness of their products so that it will be easier for IBOs to actually go out there and sell something, instead of just buying from themselves.
Hi guys!
I've been checking out some of the posts on occasion. :-)
I just wanted to put in my "two cents" as I am one of those IBO's who just wants to run an ethical, legal & moral business. I'm out to help the "little guy" come out further ahead in life. You know, get out of debt, maybe have a little savings, send a kid to school (if that's your thing).
I love all the changes. And yes, I think people would be in denial if they didn't think these actions on the part of Quixtar weren't a direct result of the online blogs & websites.
Information is readily available and free to the average person. So, the deceptive IBO's out there really can't tell too many tall tales anymore. I love that!
What I don't appreciate is the generalization that tends to happen. There are regular critics on this site who worsen the reputation of Quixtar by spreading bad rumors like wildfire.
If a negative situation happens (and I know they certainly do) then address it. But please stop taking isolated incidents & treating them like they are the norm in "the biz". Because that is certainly not what is being taught in my business, nor by our upline Diamonds or Platinum/Ruby. They focus on truly putting God & family first, then this business. The teach on how to retail, service customers, market products & incentives, offer the opportunity, etc.
We do have an upline Double Eagle/Platinum who gets a bit overzealous at times. He's one of the old Amway guys. You can tell. Nice guy with a good heart but just doesn't "get it" yet. That's why we haven't seen him grow since we've been in! We tend to just smile & nod & "ignore" it. We do what makes sense to us.
So, in conclusion, yes. I believe the recent actions by Quixtar are a result of the online information available to the average consumer (prosumer!) :-).
In a strange way.....thanks!
God bless you guys,
Nancy
Pending a thread topic coming soon, here is some stuff to chew on:
Yes, it is fairly obvious "critics" have affected quixtar at corporate levels and have brought inevitable change to the forefront faster... good for you.
As for the past:
When did the rule of -- wait 2 years before joining competing business (ie another MLM) come about? This was NOT in place in 1983 and thus made the threat from kingpins of "if you dont do what we like, we will leave for another business" actually very possible. Today: that is not as possible. (if at all).
Furthermore, has anyone noticed the stance Qstar has taken as far as taking control of product focus? Offering free personalized product sites, more free (and very low priced) product knowledge information and training, a "new IBO center" to help the new guy, etc etc. The "tools" which the "systems" seemed the only provider for many years is now back in the hands of the corporation... and with the restructuring of profits/incentives (more to the platinum level) and more corporate functions (like open-house type deals) and of course accreditation... can anyone deny that the corporation is taking this business back under their control and within their guidelines as what is the "proper" way to build the business??
I suspect any "kingpin" or "system" that choses not to follow will extinct, or at least cripple, themselves in the coming years due to reputation and all sides: critics and non-accreditation, claiming they are not building it as it is intended.
So to the well meaning, and truely concerned critics - thanks.
But i agree with Sally, sometimes the speculation and over arching claims go a bit too far...
I think the problem is that what you appears to be an isolated incident is actually wide spread. If one guy came on here an talked about a bad experience it is one thing, but when hundreds if not thousands come and talk about a bad experience, it is no longer isolated, and when more than one system is mentioned, BWW, WWDB, it is widespread
anotheribo: please put together a study of that... it would be interesting. Right now, you are throwing out the range of numbers with nothing backing them but a finger pointed in the direaction of the forum saying "look at all the members" membership does not require horror story.
And, i am in BWW, and i have NEVER experienced this. "qualifiers" are promoted, but i have never been asked to pre-purchase in effort to motivate me to qualify. This is not to say it doesnt happen, but it is to say that it is not a SYSTEM issue, it is more specific than that, probably as specific as the upline plat/leader in Drew's LOS in the Merris org.
I think the point Sally and Brad are saying goes both ways. While I would agree that some critics tend to over generalize some issues (I am sure I have been guilty from time to time) there are also those IBOs who want to water it down by turning it into an isolated incident when it is clearly not.
Isolated incident to me means it happened that one time to that one person. Well most tool abuse is not like that otherwise sites and blogs like this would have no reason to exist.
So it's a two way street. While you may want the critics to stop over generalizing the situation, many of you IBOs might look in the mirror and realize you are trying to down play the abuse under the cover of "isolated incident" when it doesn't apply.
Drew is right, I wasn't trying generalize the situation. It is apparant though that this large number of critics who fell victim to tools, or any other unethical treatment isn't isolated. A certain situation might be isolated to one LOS but everyone is in Q* and when something happens throughout different lines of LOS it can't be termed isolated. just my opinion
I do apologize for throwing numbers out there, but over the last year, I have read a large number of people giving their testimony to the negative of q*. With a 65% first year drop out rate (verified by quixtar's customer service email) I am sure out of the hundreds of thousands of IBO's in the last 20 years, that there are at least a few hundred to maybe thousands who were led astray in one form or another by an upline.
If you want to know why I feel this way, I have experienced this business first as a brother of an IBO and again as a brother-in-law and as an IBO myself. Honestly though, I knew this wasn't a good business to get into joined to help my b-in-law and then asked for a full refund from Q8.
To this day, I still receive products in the mail from him, because he needed to have customer volume, so he buys it in our name and sends it to us. On a positive note, he finally made his 1,000pv pin, but he paid for most of it.
His upline platinum encouraged this practice so his business would meet the legal aspect of business volume to customers. Now was this isolated, or just one of the many unethical business practices within the BWW organization? or is that the Q* organization? I have plenty more examples just in this one LOS by a large number of the IBO's. Feel free to ask
Just to clarify, the products he sent to us were unsolicited. We never asked for them.
when someone owns two businesses and a partner in one is the customer in the other, there are sure to be some unethical practices. It would be like the two of us owning a watch (timepiece) business and I soley own the battery store that sells the specific battery for that watch. Whether you sell a lot of watches or you get someone to sell the watches I will win either way because I own them both.
Some rad and hilarious irony:
Sally says: "Please stop taking isolated incidents & treating them like they are the norm in "the biz". Because that is certainly not what is being taught in my business, nor by our upline Diamonds or Platinum/Ruby. They focus on truly putting God & family first, then this business."
Your Boy Fleak says: "Ha ha ha!! Paying money to go to a business seminar to learn how to build a profitable business, and then having the speakers who you thought were going to teach you how to make money put 'God and family first, then the business' IS one of the MAIN 'negative situations' critics address!"
I thought that was pretty funny.
Drew: good point. I would agree.
anotheribo: What your brother-in-law is doing is against the intent (if not directly against) the rules of conduct and M/C volume, not to mention buying products to meet a pin. His benefit of "buying" the 1000s pin is miniscule compared to his price of the products and is just hurting himself. No offense, just trying to understand it.
Just a few other points. the Accreditation program was formulated with IBOAI input meaning: a majority of the leaders intended to align their systems with accreditation (or perhaps thought it already met it).
eFinity and Team5k are accredited, i would hope many of these "horror stories" are absent from them. Anyone hear a horror story out of those LOSs in the past 2 years? (length of time for accreditation)
And how bout we set up an upline diamond/system for each complaint? that would be a good way to track them. The diamond would be most telling, because as i said above, i am in the same system as the one Drew references regarding the dishonest practices, yet i have never experienced them. Why?
Y'all can correct me if I'm wrong, but the diamonds will not stand on stage (in most cases) and give bad advice that will be recorded. They will give the (politically correct) PC speech on stage, and then in meetings with directs and above (perhaps), they will teach the "buy extra function tickets, and buy extra tapes/cds/books.
Drew:
Back on topic.
I think that sites like this have had an extremely positive impact on the corporation and the training orgs.
I also don't believe that these changes would have taken place without the voice of positive critics on this site.
I have learned a lot about how I can become more profitable and the need or more retail business training.
It is a good site, and the urinary olympics can be fun too. Sometimes it takes such skirmishes to see where the other person is coming from.
Let's remember that even though there may be xx amount of people posting hear who heard or quixtar abuse, some of us sat in functions with tens of thousands of other who heard the same stuff that the diamonds taught.
JC, in attending those functions, and high pin level events, it would be safe to assume these IBOs already knew that you are to pull out a tape recorder during every training and time with upline, right? So, where are these recordings that are so numerous showing the widespread abuses and unquestionable direction from upline to abuse people with the system?
I believe that interpretation of the listener has a BIG part in all of this. Different people will hear the SAME thing and walk away with completely different thoughts about it. Neither of those reactions, good nor bad, speaks accurately and without question to the intention of the speaker. Therefore, your interpretation of what was said no more proves the upline was decieving than it shows your state of mind when interpreting what was said.
YBF,
You obviously missed the last part of the last sentence in that paragraph about how they teach us to retail, market, promote, etc. It's all about the products.
I will never apologize, nor make excuses for wanting to be in a BUSINESS with people of the same moral & ethical philosophies.
Why in the world would you want to work with people who don't have the same basic life principles as you? Sorry Your Boy Fleak, there's not enough money in the world.
Drew, I think it's obvious that it goes both ways. I believe you're smart enough to know exactly what point I was trying to make.
Sally
Brad, what exactly did they teach you about retailing? I'm seriously curious. I hope it's not the charge yourself full retail and put the profit into a seperate bank account.
JoeCool18 - even if you sat in a seminar with 50,000IBOs being told something stupid, that's still a minority of active IBOs in the US.
insider, how many functions with 50,000 IBOs are held each year?
In the US? None that I am aware of. QED.
Well, then I bet there are plenty of functions where there might be 20,000
or so.
Maybe so. Were you at them? Do you know what they were taught/told there?
I know what was taught when I was there and looking back, much of it was not helpful, like being told who to vote for and charging myself full retail and calling it profit. If there are all these function teaching stuff like this, how many IBOs are affected? I bet more than 100,000
Yes Sally I saw the point you were trying to make. I have to ask though if it is so obvious that it goes both ways why do you only address the critics then? I can only wonder why you get defensive about someone addressing the other side if it is so obvious. HMMMM?
Defensive? What are you talking about? I thought it was the other way around and YOU were the one being defensive. ;-)
Sally
So now it is defensive to point out that what you said goes both ways? Silly me, here I am thinking I was pointing out a legit fact that while some critics generalize, there are as many IBOs who use the "isolated incident" term to loosely.
If you agree with me then I am not quite sure you responded the way you did. I elaborated on a point you made and you seemed to take offense to it. Something tells me you were reading a little farther into my comment then needed.
Drew, my friend.....
Lighten up buddy! Didn't you see the 'wink' at the end of the sentence?!?
That's one of the problems with written communications vs. face to face communications. You'd be able to see the twinkle in my eye when I said what I said. ;-)
You're one of the few "critics" I actually have a bit of respect for.
I'm excited about all these positive changes & even some of the exchanges of information on this site. I think it's all leading to a fair & honest business environment for all.
Take care Drew! :-)
sally
Sally,
I did see it, I was more referring to your initial response then anything. You are right written comments can never substitute for a good ol face to face discussion.
Hence the reason I enjoy podcasting so much, I can get my point across in the right tone of voice, use sarcasm easier, etc.
I would agree that the new changes are a positive thing to be looking forward to and I hope the progress only continues in this direction.
I personally know with a surety, that the Bloggers, Forum Members, etc. have had a very positive impact on the betterment of the Direct Sales Industry, as a whole.
Thank you, and keep up the great work ladies and gentlemen!
Amazingly, many of the Direct Sales Industry's abuses are beginning to be proactively addressed, by large companies.
I know that Scott and Eric particularly, have played an essential role as related to changes being made at Am/Quix.
They have illustrated a perfect example of "Little is the new BIG."
In my humble opinion, they are the Erin Brockovich of the common IBO. They have accomplished being able to get the little guys voice heard by billion dollar companies/industry.
Considering the length of previous years of abuse, and size of the Kingpins that exist; the Internet Blogs, etc. are doing a wonderful job slaying the industry Goliaths.
Maybe someday these guys will receive a nice Brockovich settlement award, for the awesome task they have taken on. No one knows what the future has in store for the folks vicariously writting a new chapter in this industry.
What is most awesome about this whole thing to me; is that neither Scott nor Eric are making money from their services offered, thus far. Have they built a brand and an audience? You bet!
Community building on the web has yet revealed itself once again.
Where are you Fred Johnston?
Posted by: Jerry Giebeig | August 29, 2006 12:23 PM