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July 8, 2006
The Secret Meeting
By Drew in A/QMOs
Thinking back on my time in Quixtar I can't help but think about what I call "The Secret Meeting." These were the meetings you had to qualify for in order to attend.
For example, at weekend functions there was always a Night Owl, and then there was the "Eagle Night Owl." When a big pin was coming to town to do an open meeting, there was a training afterward, and then there was "Qualifiers Training." If you didn't qualify for these meetings many times you were made to feel like you were a second class business owner. There were many other examples of different types, but there is one thing all these meetings had in common. They didn't make any sense.
During my time in Quixtar I remember being told that these meetings were where the real secrets of the business were told. These meetings were where the really big bits of information were given out to only those who qualified. This raised questions about why such vital information was kept quiet from certain downline IBOs. After all we were told when we signed up that upline success was dependent upon downline success. If that were true one would think every bit of information would be given to each IBO to ensure maximum success for the upline. Unless of course it is not true.
Well my wife and I did all we could to qualify for such meetings. However, the first time we qualified was when Paul Miller was showing the plan at our open meeting. We needed to show 5 plans the week before, and be CORE, to get into his "special training session." My wife and I showed 10 plans that week to ensure we qualified. I must say I couldn't have been more disapppointed. I learned nothing in that meeting that I didn't already know. The only original thing I heard in that meeting was a few stories from Paul that I would hear later on SOT.
So what is the motivation behind these secret meetings? Is there really vital information given out that can't be gotten anywhere else? Could it be just a ruse to get IBOs to do something for upline financial gain? I remember the Eagle meetings were promoted far more then any other qualifier meeting, and the math on that program looks to favor the upline quite a bit. I can't help but think there are more secrets to "The Secret Meeting."
Comments
Mevi, maybe, that was the point you missed. You can't build your business big enough while having bad relationship with your downline.
The leadership information cannot be shared with just anyone in the business for one simple reason. New people won't understand it - just like you.
There are no secrets in this business. It's just that some information is not useful for some people so it is useless to share it with them. Just like at school - you cannot go directly to the university. And in the age of 6, the information you get there would be useless.
I think I understand. Like Brainwashing (I mean Edification) 101, and Advanced Brainwashing.
From Steven Hassan:
Information varies at different levels and missions within pyramid Information varies at different levels and missions The exact same analogy used on Steve Hassan] in the Moonies ... "you don't feed a baby steak" is utilized here. You only are told what you need to know in leadership to complete any given task at hand. There are packs of new distributor tapes and as they become acclimated they are given more as they can handle it.
Leadership decides who "needs to know" what
Distributors are taught not to ask questions above their own level, with the reasoning, "You're too new, you wouldn't understand," or "You wouldn't feed a baby a steak would you? you'll learn in time." Eventually, the distributor stops asking "advanced" questions and just does what he is told. When you do ask your upline a question about the business, you will usually get a well-rehearsed line, a line repeated from an audio tape, or even a well-taught "unanswer," or even a remark designed to discredit the source of your question. Distributors also like to "third party" advice as well: "You know, John said that, when he was in your situation, he did this..." The distributor is supposed to then learn from this example and do what the other person did. This seems like a rather good way to get out of taking responsibility for any wrong advice the upline might give. If a distributor was to persist in his questioning, the answer would finally result in a "this is not a normal business, trust us it works" answer. In other words, "Shut up and do as You're told." If a distributor has a question about the actual mechanics of building the business, he is usually told to listen to an audio tape. The upline is quick to point out, "Who would you rather learn from- me, or a guy who's already a Diamond?" So, the distributor listens to the tape (sometime multiple times), but does not find the answers to his questions. When he returns it to his upline, he is given another tape and an excuse: "I'm sorry, I meant to give you this one." The distributor then listens to this second tape. The same thing may happen over and over- there is no answer to his question on any of the tapes his upline has given him. After a while of doing this, the distributor may have forgotten his original question, but he has now listened to the "teaching" of these tapes- something he may or may not have done on his own. Now, the upline has told him which tapes to listen to- tapes which may be specifically geared to stop the distributor from asking his upline so many questions.
We had 2 events that stand out in my mind that fit that description-you had to qualify to go to them and were to provide time/exposure to upline that you wouldn't normally have. One was a much promoted Superbowl party-- we really wanted to qualify for this to be around our Emeralds, who were out of town. Imagine my surprise when they told us how much our check should be made out for to pay for our tickets to this event after we qualified for it! I don't think our Emerald even glanced in our direction.
Another was sprung on us at the last minute. Our direct told us "We've noticed how many plans you've been showing and you qualify for a trip to Destin this weekend (read: tonight)." Wow! Our emerald was to be there too. In the next breath was our share of expenses we needed to cover- apparently, they couldn't come up with anyone else at the last minute to sleep on the sofa and pay for a third of the condo for the weekend!
I was often perplexed by people sticking tape recorders in upline's face and taking notes at opens/netsems/builder's meetings/functions. I can see doing this maybe once, but the information starts to repeat itself almost immediately!
I think I failed Edification 101.
I just have to throw this in--but does anyone else see an obvious association to the Wizard of Oz here with these meetings of the elite? (Especially when you catch the word emerald here and there.) The protagonists in the story (you know who they all are) seek an audience with the great and powerful wizard. The wizard offers to help them if they do him a solid, a favor that is gargantuan in scope. When they bring him the goods, the broom, he hedges, tells them to "come back later." When they go behind the curtain to confront him, all is revealed--he's got no inside track. He's just a guy putting up a facade of power, manipulating his environment to his own benefit. And hey, even a six-year-old can understand that plot twist.
I remember our last major function...it was Family Reunion in Denver CO (WWDB-2003), and there was an 'Eagle' something or other event being planned in Breckenridge for several days prior to the function. You had to 'qualify' to go, and it was billed as 'quality time with your upline - invaluable to your business! Anyway, we didn't qualify, but had extended our mandadory weekend to a week long vacation in the CO area. Well, one day we decided to drive to Breckenridge & take in the sites...I'm sure you can guess what happened!
We were strolling the boardwalk & walked into a store. There was Howie Danzik's group - in the store on a dreambuilding exercise!
They were very surprised to see us - with a 'what are you doing here?' thrown at us. We said we were on vacation before the function, and were wandering around Colorado, seeing the sites. Then he extracted his group immediately & said 'we'll see you in Denver this weekend.' It was pretty weird.
Well, at the function, our Emerald upline mentioned to us that he heard we were in Breckenridge - almost in an accusatory tone. I don't know if they thought we were spying on them or what, but it was clear that they thought we had crossed some kind of line. We had been questioning many things in the past few months, and this really bothered us.
We left the function quite early on Saturday - and as we were walking out, a woman in our LOS saw us leaving - she actually threatened to TELL our upline! Huh?
So many little things happened that week that really added up - it was to be our last major function and the 'beginning of the end', if you will, of our involvement.
But I must say, we had one of our most spectacular & memorable vacations in Colorado that year - we were FREE to do what we wanted!!!!
That is one thing I always thought was funny about these qualifiers. Many times they didn't do anything that you could not have showed up to do yourself. That is probably why they got so upset. All those IBOs saw you doing what they thought they had to qualify to do.
"The leadership information cannot be shared with just anyone in the business for one simple reason. New people won't understand it - just like you."
See it is quotes like this that just boggle my mind. There has never been any information withheld from me in any other endevor unless it was someone else's personal information.
The point is, if this information is so invaluable to building your business and upline success really is dependent upon downline success then these meetings are actually hurting the business not helping. This whole line about "You wouldn't understand yet" sounds like a damn cult saying "You haven't been brainwashed enough to hear this yet."
Good grief!
And the critics say Amway/Quixtar is a cult! This post sure proves them wrong!
Drew - I actually agree with you on this one, I'm all for free flow of information. We tell people, jokingly, "aahhh ... you'll have to qualify to see what happens!" but that's just to encourage them to actually do the work to achieve whatever is necessary to attend the meeting. If they want to know what happens - well, our main leadership meetings are on CD and available too ... downline are more than welcome to subscribe or borrow leadership CDs too if they want.
Having said that, leadership meetings do talk about different things. Building to what we call "leader's club" is a slightly different task than helping and teaching others to build to "leader's club". But if you want to know what it is that's different .... well you'll just have to qualify and find out ;-)
you did get something out of it: you showed 10 plans and accomplished other business related tasks that you probably would not have done otherwise.
Brad, are you being serious or sarcastic?
Because if you are serious, I don't think you grasp the fact that Drew sees his time in the business, including time showing plans, was a waste of both time and money. And that if he had done otherwise, he would be much better off. (Drew, please correct me if I'm wrong.)
Btw, are you our old Brad from the forum or the new Brad?
There's two brads? Well done ... you've duplicated ;-)
Its a simple carrot and stick cult practice. Creating a goal that can be used to motivate or punish the lower eschlon into believing there is more mystery and intrigue that a member can "earn" access to.
Its very similar to the Scientologist method of "levels" and secret knowledge that the lower level folks couldn't possibly understand because they are not mentaly ready or havn't paid the "dues".
The truth is its a distraction and provides false hope. Much as the rest of this business and many cults practice subtle mind control, this is another example.
"you did get something out of it: you showed 10 plans and accomplished other business related tasks that you probably would not have done otherwise."
Considering I averaged about 6 plans a week, and was already CORE it was not that big of a deal.
But it is interesting that you appear to agree that upline is simply decieving downline with these meetings. Apparently you agree that there was nothing to offer in these meetings.
There are no secret meetings. A guy I know has a brother who is a Ruby w/WWDB...I have known these 2 guys since high school. They would never be involved in anything unethical. I would assume he would qualify to attend one of these "secret meetings", so I asked him about it. He laughed. He said thats a myth. There are no secret meetings. The business is what it is. If you can make $1 you can make $5, if you can make $50 you can make $150...and so on up the line. This business is like a marathon..as long as you keep putting one foot in front of the other you will get to your destination. If they have a 'secret" meeting..thats what they would tell you.
It's interesting to read everyone's comments. Most different situations, but pretty much in the same perspective. Honestly, the "eagle meetings" or "secret meetings" don't offer anymore information than what anyone can find for themselves.
So why all the "secrecy"? Well, from understanding people, people do get in for the money. Like most of you, right? Drew, it's great that you were "CORE" and did it own your own accord. Most people don't. People do get in for "the money", but come on, how many people did you really know that was CORE consistently EVERY week? So, in order to motivate people to do something, there's qualifiers. Want people to get on Ditto the first of the month? Have a qualifier. Want people to get off their butt to show the plan or do some retail? Have a qualifier.
No, you may think that it's "deceptive", but that's your perspective. Please understand that when my boss wants me to do something, she threatens my income. When I have downline that I want to do something, I have (how do you say it? A carrot?) a qualifier. I can't threaten my IBOs now can I? And yes it benefits me. And also, it benefits them. Having my downline show the plan more every week, doesn't increase my income. It gets them out there doing what they need to do. I went through the same thing. The bulk of my learning, was doing, not sitting in a secret meeting. But if that's what it took to get me to do something, I'm thankful for it.
The bad thing to qualifiers, is that if not done properly, people will just "fake their plans" to be able to "qualify". That defeats the purpose of the qualifier.
Also, another benefit to a qualifier is that the "guest speaker" has a chance to build relationships within their organization. Relationships that can't be built in a major function. That's where I met my upline Diamond. In an Eagle Meeting. Some of you may not agree, but that's my perspective.
Drew I believe you mentioned that you were in the military before. I was in the Marines. I was repeatedly told "not to ask questions" and that "we don't get paid to think". Although I didn't like it, I did understand the point behind it. That if I ask questions, it can get my Platoon killed.
Now that maybe an extreme, but there are some things building this business won't relate to a new IBO. New IBOs all the time ask me what the different levels are and how to achieve them. Things like FAA points and GETFAA points. All things are good to know, but won't affect their business. It doesn't matter because if they don't show the plan, they won't get there anyways. If it motivates them to do what they need to do, then great, but from my experience, it doesn't. I've never been to a SECRET MEETING. Everyone that I've been to, everyone knew about before hand. It's cool how you chose the word "secret"...sounds great with "cult" and "brainwash" huh?
No I used the word "secret" because that is the word we used while I was in.
For starters don't compare this business to the military. It does not compare in anyway shape or form, and the Marines that I knew while I was in would be highly pissed to see one of their own trying to compare the two.
Marines are told not to ask questions because their can be no hesitation in combat. You are given an order and you carry it out.
Business is a different matter altogether. You ask tons of questions or you end up getting taken advantage of. No one is going to die by you asking a few questions about your own business. Honestly your comparison is not extreme it is an insult and you should be ashamed of yourself.
So the question becomes why have a qualifier for Eagle program? Better yet why have qualifiers that require something that is supposed to be optional like tools, Kate, seminars, etc. All part of the Eagle program. Basically you are saying that if you don't participate in tools you can't get certain information. Doesn't really leave an impression that tools are optional now does it?
"A guy I know has a brother who is a Ruby w/WWDB...I have known these 2 guys since high school. They would never be involved in anything unethical. I would assume he would qualify to attend one of these "secret meetings", so I asked him about it. He laughed. He said thats a myth. There are no secret meetings."
Well golly geewiz. I guess myself and all the others who remember those meetings must have been dreaming the whole thing.
I mean who could argue with the fact that you know your sister's, brother's, cousin's, massage therapist who dated this one guy, who had a dog, who was treated by this vet, who had a son, who went to school with this guy who said it was a myth?
What was I thinkin?
There are no secret meetings....blah blah...There are no secret meetings. The business is what it is. If you can make $1 you can make $5, if you can make $50 you can make $150...and so on up the line. This business is like a marathon..as long as you keep putting one foot in front of the other you will get to your destination. If they have a 'secret" meeting..thats what they would tell you.
Can you post one post without saying something that sounds like it just came from a motivational tape?
truebeliever>> I just have to throw this in--but does anyone else see an obvious association to the Wizard of Oz here with these meetings of the elite?
Scott N>> Funny you should mention. I was in Keith and Jimmie Lee Belknap's Champions Organization. In 1983, several diamonds defected and released a brochure called "New Directions". On it, diamond Brian McConnell mentioned hearing a song on the radio saying Oz never gave nothing to the Tin Man that he didn't already have. (Gee, I wonder what song he was talking about.) Anyway, he made the exact same analogy. Rank and file IBOs already know what they need to do and don't need to keep buying the latest greatest tools.
R.Halling says: "thats a myth. There are no secret meetings."
Yet Drew, Henave, DisenchantedIBO and my own DH were well aware of their existence. Some of our pro-Q posters, by attempting to justify the secret meetings, admit to their existence.
Using JT's logic, that an IBO isn't told what he doesn't yet need to know, perhaps R.Halling isn't even allowed to know they exist yet.
Better keep working on that secret handshake.
looks again like people taking things waayyy too seriously. So they called it "secret meetings". Whoopee. How secret can a meeting be that anyone can attend simply by doing whatever is necessary to qualify?
Indiser - I think you are missing the point here. First of all, read Dawson's post above regarding the cult practices. He is right on the money.
But more to the point, the 'secret' is really no secret at all - I don't believe the information is any more valuable to actually building the business than the information you receive elsewhere from the organization. If it really helped build the BUSINESS, they would want EVERYONE to know it. Instead - I believe you receive information about how to increase your downline TOOLS business under the guise of increasing the actual BUSINESS.
Take for example someone who wants to know how the business works from the start to Diamond - what is perceived as 'success.' They want to see how what they need to do to get there BEFORE they decide to sign-up. There is no way that the information would be disclosed. NONE. NADA. It just wouldn't happen.
So you're drawn in, little by little, and made to feel 'special' by being included. The 'secret' is the method to keep you. We are so predictable as humans, which is why so many people are drawn into these schemes. We think we're different than the next guy, it can't happen to us. But when it happens little by little, over time, with rewards/punishments for 'good' behaviour, and inclusion into what you've come to believe you want, we are each as gullible as the next guy.
Whenever I go back and think about our time in the organization, I get a creepy feeling. I am so grateful to be out of the loop!
"looks again like people taking things waayyy too seriously."
Yeah because we know Insider has never done any such thing. Maybe you should look in the mirror before making this accusation.
Way to miss the point Einstein. Why would you have any kind of qualifier meeting where you give out certain information? If upline success truly was dependent on downline success one would think you would give all of this "good" information to all of your downline.
I can understand having qualifiers to go to an event or do some kind of activity, but to get information doesn't make any sense if upline depends on downline for success.
Or maybe that could be the myth?
Did you not read what I said Drew? The majority of these meetings are available on CD to anyone who wants them. Where's the secret?
It's no more a "secret" than not inviting 1st year med students to do the rounds with interns.
Amazing how you folk complain about there being too many meetings and then when some group limits the meetings for new IBOs since they wouldn't be considered that worthwhile for them, well then that's a problem too!
the purpose of having "invite only" meetings is more about goal setting than information dissemination.
But I guess those medical schools are all doing cult-like information control :roll:
CK: "Using JT's logic, that an IBO isn't told what he doesn't yet need to know, perhaps R.Halling isn't even allowed to know they exist yet.
Better keep working on that secret handshake."
That was brilliant!
Are these quixstar bigshots trying to emulate the Masons?
To Scott N--
Interesting support you provided for my Wizard of Oz observation...and a nice refutation of the necessity of tools, even if it is based on an old classic rock lyric from a band I've always disliked.
Amazing how you folk complain about there being too many meetings and then when some group limits the meetings for new IBOs since they wouldn't be considered that worthwhile for them, well then that's a problem too!
That would make sense if qualification was based on amount of PV, not amount of plans shown per week, as Drew describes in the post.
the purpose of having "invite only" meetings is more about goal setting than information dissemination.
So IBOs who don't show enough plans shouldn't be told about goal setting?
The majority of these meetings are available on CD to anyone who wants them. Where's the secret?
I think the issue that Drew talked about wasn't necessarily the limiting of information but rather separating IBOs into "qualified" and "unqualified" ones, thereby making the latter feel second-class.
But I guess those medical schools are all doing cult-like information control
The utter idiocy of your BS straw-man comparison continues to amaze me. Dop you really think people are dumb enough to believe its a valid comparison?
What is it about IBOs comparing Quixtar to things that are nothing like Quixtar? I think there's a great new thread on the forum summarizing some of the BS comparison attempts made.
Come to find out the AA at our church is involved in this program / company and invited us over their house last night to give us the opportunity to join their community.
After politely sitting and listening to the presentation on what the company is and how it can benefit us, I can say for certain that this is a multi-level marketing cult. Almost like some kind of mail order Jehovah's Witnesses!
It's a shame that this person, who's a high ranking employee of the church, would succumb to their brainwashing rhetoric. They had it all down: the lingo, the high-pressure sales tactics, the marketing psychology to logically appeal to peoples' reasonability.
They constantly parried my criticism and skepticism with "well, you don't understand the system yet" or "not everybody will get it". But I understood perfectly well what it is...
The business model financially preys on it's lower ranking members who also do a lot of leg-work for free. In addition, it web based purchasing system is very destructive to local economies - worse than what Walmart does. But it's major flaw is that it's "get rich" scheme only effectively applies to a minority; it requires the vast majority of people to be just consumers purchasing from a relatively small number of members.
Basically, Quixtar is Amway on steroids!
I'm ashamed I didn't speak up and walk out. I'm ashamed I let the other young couple get talked into it. I'm ashamed for my friend who's involved with this cult.
I have never seen an Eagle Night Owl on CD. You still are missing the point insider which of course is no surprise.
It's not the fact of having a meeting or not having a meeting. I think we have already established that the information in the meeting is worthless, kind of like your comments.
The point is why have a meeting where you say the "real big business building tips will be given out" and make it for only certain IBOs if this business is dependent on downline success. Common sense (I know you have no clue what this is but try and keep up) dictates that you would want that information to get to all of your downline since your success depends upon their success.
So it stands to argue that either there is another motivation behind making these meetings a qualification, or upline success really doesn't depend on dowline success. Either way it is deceptive and lying to IBOs. I know you don't have an issue with this, but for a guy who is all talk and no action I am not surprised.
QUOTE - "I can say for certain that this is a multi-level marketing cult. Almost like some kind of mail order Jehovah's Witnesses!"
Ok, I just had to post. I used to be a JW and Quixtar is EXACTLY like them. In more ways than anyone ever realizes.
You may not know that the main purpose of the JW's are to get donations (used to be sell those magazines and books), but now they ask for donations to avoid sales tax for those magazines and books.
The average JW is nothing more than a magazine, book salesman. The oranization called "Jehovah's Witnesses" is indeed nothing more than a Corporation called the "Watchtower Bible and Tract Society, Inc." A printing company with a free labor force to distribute and self consume it's product, and recruit more people to convert and self consume and distribute more product.
The similarities are uncanny and a Quixtar distributor, if they were to study the JW's would easily see the cult mind control techniques that are used and quickly admit they are a cult.
Then they would really see how much they are just like the JW's.
I am considering starting a blog to discuss point by point each similar aspect comparing the JW's and Quixtar.
Truly it is unbelievable and would really put things in a perspective that would really hit home with the average IBO. I know, because I have been studying these aspects for months now, and I was a JW for 33 years.
POINT - Quixtar is a cult with more secrets in it than Jehovah's Witnesses.
Greg Duncan, Eagle Night Owl: PM139CD
John Crowe, Night Owl: V124
Bill Britt, Orlando Night Owl: V127
You're probably right thought. All those people who say they benefited from qualifiers, night owls, and 'secret' meetings were all lying. And the growth they got coming out of those qualifiers was probably just dumb luck. You're so right.
ps: can't wait to hear the interview you're doing this weekend with Bill Britt and Paul Miller.
I remember longing to be able to get into those damn meetings. Oh the shame.
Someone told me (fellow ex IBO) that when he qualified it was all more "ra ra ra" and a little bit of "oh, you should probably be doing some retail".
In our AMO it was 900PV you needed to qualify to attend (which I guess you could buy your way in with) but I think it was supposed to represent you plus an "active" downline doing their monthly qualification PV.
Javert, your name is appropriate for a Quixtar apologist...Hugo's man of the law, who upon discovering that the law was imperfect committed suicide rather than live with the truth...
Please define the 'benefit' and 'growth' that have been obtained as a direct consequence of attending these meetings (the ones that R.Halling say don't even exist). And I am looking for a defined business benefit in dollars and cents, not "I grew as a person", os "it gave me 'business-owner mentality' ."
Thank you.
you are right insider, this is downright hilarious!!.
Yes rara, it's me.
Dawson> "Its a simple carrot and stick cult practice"
really now? so i guess all corporations, places of employment are doing that daily! Call the cult-police, CK you have rickross on speeddial right? They are offering "first 100 shoppers $30 TVs" and the local sales team is rewarding top performers an offer to accompany the president at lunch, etcetc.
please....
CK: "by attempting to justify the secret meetings, admit to their existence"
Really now? where did you pull that logic from?
Just for the fun of the blog: i have never heard them referred to as "secret meetings". yet have been a part of many "qualifiers".
And just a question Drew, how could a CORE IBO, dedicated to the "work habits" miss the Greg Duncan "Eagle Night Owl" CD?
I still do not undesratnd what is so secret about these meetings. Is it maybe the unwillingness of those who chose to quit instead of fighting to admit it that makes it a secret after all? Drew, I am glad that you showed ten overviews a week but the truth is that you did quit. That was your choice.
Chris Anton,
"Quit instead of fighting"? Nice false dichotomy there. Keep up the good work.
Wow, insider comparing medical students to a cult (like quixtar), that's a new low.
For the record:) I have NEVER heard any meeting described as "SECRET". Nada.. Zilch.. Zero... Kid's stirring up the natives.. Someone's tin-foil hat must have a hole in it.. LOL
I was in WWDB a while back, and we did have qualifier meetings, which was probably to motivate the group. But we also had secret meetings, which upline would call at the "last minute". Upline would say you worked extra hard lately, so the "diamond" is doing a special teaching session, and you are one of few that were invited. Made me feel great, but reflecting back, didn't teach me anything about how to profit.
CK: "by attempting to justify the secret meetings, admit to their existence"
Brad replies: 'Really now? where did you pull that logic from? '
You can't follow the simple logic? In law, it's called an affirmative defense. You can't pleade self-defense without admitting to the action of which you are accused.
And there's no point in explaining the virtue of the secret/qualifier-only meeting unless it exists. You yourself say you have been to 'many'. Doesn't that sort of prove they exist?
Surely you can follow that. Maybe not, you seem out of sorts today, to wit: Brad writes, "really now? so i guess all corporations, places of employment are doing that daily! Call the cult-police, CK you have rickross on speeddial right? They are offering "first 100 shoppers $30 TVs" and the local sales team is rewarding top performers an offer to accompany the president at lunch, etcetc.
please...."
Care to translate that when the effects of whatever it is you're on have worn off?
So many comments from the pro-Quixtar crowd with so little substance.
Take note everyone that none of them Javert, Brad, GLAM, or Cristian could refute the point of the entire post. Why would you give any vital information out at a "qualifier only" meeting if upline success truly depends upon downline success? For some reason they don't have an answer for this and can only try to deny, deny, deny.
But on to the responses:
Javert,
Nice to see you come out of your hole. Although your arguments are still as weak as before. Wasn't in WWDB so I never saw a tape by a Duncan except for the one given to prospects. The other two tapes don't say "Eagle Night Owl". You also have yet to show benefit directly from such meetings and it is my belief that you will not be able to. Nice to see though that you are still having no issues handing out challenges. Now if you could just do something about learning to grow a spine when challenges are handed to you. For the record I gave the challenge to Javert first which he declined. Then somehow he takes the yellow stripe off his back long enough to try and give me one. Well Javert, I have yet to recieve my plane ticket and function ticket. If it is this weekend you better get in contact with me soon.
Brad,
You and Javert need to get together, both of you seem to have the same problem with growing a spine to take challenges but have no problem handing them out. Speaks quite a bit to your credibility and character. The reason I never saw Duncan's Eagle Night Owl is because I was in BWW not WWDB. In my group tools from another LOS was frowned upon. I guess inside the system free enterprise does not exist.
Cristian,
Yes I did quit and yes it was my choice. What is your point? Are you warming up to calling me a "quitter and loser"? Is that the best you have? You can't even address the point of the post? Why don't you go give it some more thought and when you actually have something of value come on back. I don't see how my quitting has anything to do with telling others about the unethical practices I witnessed.
GLAM,
Another person who his spine growing deficiency. You couldn't even muster up a response for my challenge to you. The more you IBOs come here and refuse to put up for your business you claim is so good. The more prospects will come here and realize how hollow your words are when they see you backing down when challenged. Just because you never heard of it doesn't mean no one referred to it that way. In my group many of us called it "The Secret Meeting". Because of the supposed secrets to building the business that were told in there.
Now do any of you IBOs actually have anything to say to refute the point of the post? Why give out vital information for building this business in a "qualifier only" meeting when upline success is supposed to be dependent on downline success. Like I said before this leaves reason to argue that there is either another motivation to these meetings, or upline success is not really dependent on downline success. Either way the dowline is being decieved and lied to.
Anything, anyone, or is it just going to be more changing the subject and tapespeak rhetoric to get away from the point at hand.
My guess:
Upline wants to have these "meetings" as a pat on the back for the IBOs who are moving the PV and tools. Special meeting = you are special.
Insider, Brad, Javert, Christian, GLAM, Sally, R.Halling -
In case you missed Drew's challenge, IT'S SPELLED OUT HERE
And I have put in an added incentive for you guys and gals - $250-00 for the first person who steps up.
So, anyone?
Drew asks "Why give out vital information for building this business in a "qualifier only" meeting when upline success is supposed to be dependent on downline success."
I would think a sensible business person wouldn't waste the time of either themselves or the person they are trying to help by having them attend meetings that wouldn't help them at their current experience level.
Quite simple really.
Re the podcast - make it $500, provide a list of topics to discuss beforehand, and limit the discussion to the business itself, not any individuals business(es), including my own, and you've got yourself a deal.
Every couple of months at the Emerald meeting there would be the upline Diamond and usually his upline Diamond to do the special meeting. It was awful to have to stand up and exit when they said that all non-qualifers had to leave the room. Everyone would watch you leave.
I hate being singled out, so I made sure to get the PV required to attend the next one. Guess what? Rah, Rah Rah!!!! In fact, everyone got to listen to the same old speech and laugh at the same jokes we had heard a zillion times before.
Not very motivating.
Come on "Insider",
$250 is not good enough? :ROLL EYES: All you have to do is go on the podcast, and you get $250.
Why do you need a "a list of topics to be discussed beforehand"?
Why not keep it a free-for-all, anything related to the Quixtar Business? And why should "your Business" be exempt from scrutiny? You are the one who is always claiming, "Oh, I don't do business that way, N21 doesn't do business that way, blah, blah..." ad-nauseum.
nope, sorry, $250 isn't much incentive for me. And it won't be a "free-for-all". Are you claiming Drew won't have any ideas about what he wants to discuss before it starts? Of course he will. Wouldn't it be much better for me to know the same so that I can have relevant information on hand? Or are you not interested in having actual facts?
Oh, btw, Brad,
There's easy money for you, right there. We never got to hashing out our previous challenge - and I understand you stood to lose $1000 in that challenge, but what the heck, you don't have to worry about winning or losing here - all you have to do is show up on Drew's podcast. Surely, that is something you can handle?
insider, why don't you just take the challenge and prove the critics wrong once and for all? Your claim is that
anyone who treats the business seriously can and will succeed. That is not true, because this quixtar/amway business has factors beyond your control. Your business success depends upon the behavior/actions of other people. Because of that, you can never be certain of success beyond the volume
you personally sell and/or consume. It's why diamonds and other pins fall out of qualification and why there is no truly residual income in this business.
I been with quixtar for just over a year. And there has never been a meeting that i have had to qualify for. I had open invintation to everything. To me this is hard to belive. I think that your team may be doing somethings wrong or different then my team. My team from day one invite anyone to everything. Even if there not an IBO yet so im not sure what your team is doing but it seems like its scaring people away.
I see you still haven't done that elementary course in statistics JC.
In the years my wife and I helped pay for our upline diamond's ranch in Brownsboro TX, It became obvious to me that the "secret meetings" served to accomplish two things:
1st they helped stroke the ego of the upline that was the object of the meeting. By the time their kids were teenagers they even thought they were gods also...
2nd they served to line up the direct and above slave labor for the functions.
By the way Insider, Brad, Javert, Christian, GLAM, Sally, R.Halling, how can you claim to be CORE and still be participating in this blog. Aren't you supposed to be avoiding the batbroom walls of the internet? The fact that you are here proves you are not duplicatable, and therfore have not completely sold out to the system. Big brother is watching...
insider, I see that you have still failed to verify any of your claims except by anecdotal (in your words, strawman) comparisons. By the way, your comparison of medical school to a cult was a new low, even for you.
Why don't you take Drew's challenge? Is it because after your butt gets handed to you, you'll resort to insults
and look like a fool?
hmm let me take out my system manual ... flip flip flip ... nope, can't see anywhere where it says "don't go on the internet". Anyway ... did I say I was core? But make your mind up folks, are we brainwashed or not? If we were brainwashed, then by George's reckoning we wouldn't be here.
ahh, good one joe. Best you can come up with? Ignore the facts I post and claim they don't exist, then self-define Quixtar as a cult and claim it's low to compare med school to a cult! hahahahah
on second thoughts, don't take that logic course. If you did you might end up stopping with such stupid posts and making me laugh - let alone making yourself look stupid.
good for the health, laughter.
I've accepted the challenge already, with the addition of a few reasonable requests. Well, and the request to make it actually worth my time. :-)
"Re the podcast - make it $500, provide a list of topics to discuss beforehand, and limit the discussion to the business itself, not any individuals business(es), including my own, and you've got yourself a deal.Re the podcast - make it $500, provide a list of topics to discuss beforehand, and limit the discussion to the business itself, not any individuals business(es), including my own, and you've got yourself a deal."
Let's get something straight. The money is up to perceptive, and was not done with my approval nor endorsement. If he wants to put that money up that is his own decision. Apparently he is sick of all the IBOs making excuses.
As far as the format of the podcast it is spelled out in the challenge quite clearly. We will talk about the business, the system, and anything else that is brought up by you. Also, anything I find interesting in your past correspondence on this blog or the forum that I think would be of good discussion. I think it is more then fair the way it is laid out. You either go or you don't go. You won't see a dime from me to show up. One would think if your business is so great and we are so wrong you would want to do it on principle. But apparently principle doesn't run too high in Quixtar.
"I would think a sensible business person wouldn't waste the time of either themselves or the person they are trying to help by having them attend meetings that wouldn't help them at their current experience level."
It never had to do with experience level. That is what Go Diamond weekends and leadership meetings were for. Now you are trying to mesh qualifiers into that web. Sorry insider but yet again you have a very poor excuse for this. If upline success depends on downline success then you would invite all your downline there to give out as much information as possible to as many of your downline as possible. If they don't show up that is one thing, but to exclude them doesn't make any sense.
I think the individual IBO's business should be fair game. In addition to living in dream theoretical and hypothetical situations, the IBO should also come back to planet earth and let us know what the reality is.
can you post a link to the actual challenge? the one given earlier in this thread I saw just linked to a forum post kind of summarising it. What you say here sounds reasonable.
As for "principle", I don't see it has anything to do with it. It's unlikely to change anybodys mind one way or the other. I've been "challenged" to do things like this a number of times. Am i unprincipled unless I do all of them? If I setup a blog critical of say Donald Trump, is he or his stuff "unprincipled" if they refuse to go on the blog to defend it in such a format?
I've never even listened to your podcast or qblogs or anyone elses. It doesn't really interest me. How you can think a voice format is somehow more legitimate than a written format where evidence can be provided and/or linked to is beyond me. Doing a podcast is more about entertainment than information.
"Why don't you take Drew's challenge? Is it because after your butt gets handed to you, you'll resort to insults
and look like a fool?"
My guess is yes.
While we are on the subject. One debate I would love to hear is Qblog and Insider on Qblog Radio. Eric could sell tickets to that, maybe cut insider a small take. It would have to be small though because the whoopin he would take from Qblog would the stuff legends are made of.
Cough up another $500 I'll do that one too :-) Same guidelines.
i'm off for now ... pass the hat around, see what you come up with :-)
Insider,
If you want to see the challenge as it is laid out, go to my blog and on the top right sidebar there is the challenge in the "Pages" Category.
No they are unprincipled if they come and say they are different but they never put up when asked to prove it.
Doing a podcast takes away from the ignoring of points, spinning answers and other such things that happen on a forum. You can reference any source you would like and when it is over e-mail them to me and they will be posted with the podcast on my blog when I finish producing it.
then self-define Quixtar as a cult and claim it's low to compare med school to a cult! hahahahah
Umm, I don't think that he has "self-defined" Quixtar as a cult; the comparisons between certain systems' methods and teachings and cult techniques have been made several times, including by those who study cult behaviour.
Let me save you time: You've never experienced it, N21 is different, you've never seen anything like it, blah blah blah. But many others have, and certain aspects of the cultish nature of certain systems should be obvious even to an idiot.
Furthermore, what does the fact that he compared Qx to a cult have to do with your idiotic comparison of med school to a cult? His comparison had merit, yours didn't (for obvious reasons.) And if you think his comparison was dumb, why did you make one that was aven dumber?
Drew> Doing a podcast takes away from the ignoring of points, spinning answers and other such things that happen on a forum.
Exactly. And that's why I believe you, insider, will never do a podcast; your favorite method of arguing would not be available to you.
Drew,
Are you trying to actually learn from us IBO's or just trying to make us look like fools?
Judging from your posts here and elsewhere possibly makes some IBO's feel you have absolutely no interest in learning what fellow IBO's have to say. That's honestly the way I feel and why myself and other IBO's opt not to participate in your podcast. It's not about defending my claims- which I will, but I have seen that you'd much rather shred my claims without ever caring how honest they may be. I would much rather be a guest on Qblog's podcast mainly because he hasn't posted some sort of "challenge" and he's more willing to actually listen to an IBO's side of view and also respect them. I am sure you're going to adamantly disagree with me on this about your podcast, but you have your opinions, and I have mine.
I am also thinking about submitting my own personal "backbone" project article to Qblog.
It's not that I won't defend my claims, it's more about not wanting my claims ripped to shreds by people who know absolutely nothing about me.
I just learned a little about the program tonight. Should I join? What should I and why should I not?
"Are you trying to actually learn from us IBO's or just trying to make us look like fools?"
The only person that can make you look like a fool is you. I do want to know what you IBOs have to say, but that does not mean I am not going to challenge you belief system. You act as if I must agree with everything you say in order for you to come on.
In the end it is going to be up to the listener to decide. You came to my blog baggering me about my debt and I told you that you could come on the podcast to show me where I was wrong about what I was saying about it. You declined.
If your points about your business are solid then surely you shouldn't have a hard time convincing folks of that. I have made it quite clear that I am not out to set anyone up, or try to get into a pissing match.
The purpose of a podcast is to have a discussion with an IBO where points cannot be ignored, answers cannot be spun and more information can be covered then on a forum with constant back and forth posts to cover just one point.
I think the challenge as laid out is more then fair in it's format. I am giving you the last word for cryin out loud that right there should tell you I am not looking for an argument. I am up for suggestions as to any modifications to the format also.
The only thing I am not willing to do is pay for someone to come on. That is something perceptive has done on his own without my knowledge or endorsement. However it has seemed to have brought the IBOs out of their holes. The only IBO who was willing to come on before perceptive mentioned the money was Tex who will be on this Sat.
In the end I am being as flexible as possible and it is up to you whether you come on or not. There are no excuses, you are either up to it or you are not.
answers cannot be spun? LOL! you mustn't watch FOXNEW much :-).
What you mean to say is - just like a radio host it's easier for me to ambush IBOs with my preprepared talking points and not give them a reasonable chance to respond. :-)
How do you expect anyone to take you seriously when you claim a forum where everything is written down for everyone to easily peruse, and reread if necessary, os more easily "spun" than a talk radio format? Absurd.
I also see now you don't actually want to talk about Quixtar, you want to talk about the so-called AMOs, which is quite a different topic. Given the great majority of IBOs only have experience with one AMO I don't think that can sensibly be discussed. It will become a "he says - she says" type of discussion and will undoubtedly just end up in the "well that's my experience" type of discussion. Given I've little experience with other groups except for what I read on forums like this, I can't sensibly discuss them. It will just be a "he said - she said" type of discussion.
If you're willing to give me a list of questions you'd like to ask, well then maybe I'll consider it. Having now read some more of your site an IBO would have
to be stupid to come on and just be ambushed. You know what you are going to ask - so why not tell us?
But I love the way you've listed my name and crossed it off. I wasn't even particularly aware of this challenge until now, heck, I've hardly ever even visited your blog.
So there's my challenge to you - provide a list of questions you want to ask, see if anyone will come up with the cash, and then we'll talk.
If you have solid, truthful points about your business, then you cannot be "ambushed" for you'd be able to expose any "ambush" for what it is. However, if your aim is to weave and spin, then the results may be different.
More excuses from the tuck and run master.
I never said you could not spin you answers. I am sure you have been doing it for quite some time now and are good at it. But in a real-time forum it is much harder.
Apparently you did not read the challenge or you did read it and then gave it the simple minded Insider interpretation. I thought I made it clear enough for the likes of you, but it appears there are just still some folks like you that are just so elementary you will never get it.
Let's see I allow the IBO to ask me questions as well. I allow the IBO to have the final word, and I allow the IBO to send me their own proposals for discussions till we have a mutual format. But yeah you are right those are all the signs of somebody setting up an ambush. It's amazing you can manage to work a keyboard.
I won't send you a list of questions so you can prepare you spun answers. But just like I am doing for Tex I will send a list of my topics I am going to talk about.
I won't be paying you a dime however, and I would advise perceptive to not give you anymore then what he is already offering. Personally you aren't worth 2 cents.
So you are now giving me a challenge. I guess now I can lump you in with Brad and Javert on the spineless dork of the month club. Not being able to step up to challenges but somehow finding the nerve to pass them out.
BTW, you were offered an appearance on my podcast quite some time back on the Qblog Forum and you declined thus you name is crossed out. Nice selective memory.
So you can hash out the money deal with perceptive. But that is completely seperate from me. If you want a different format you are going to have to work that out with me. You have my e-mail next move is yours.
"If you have solid, truthful points about your business, then you cannot be "ambushed" for you'd be able to expose any "ambush" for what it is. However, if your aim is to weave and spin, then the results may be different."
I agree, the fact that he thinks I can ambush him either means that he is admitting his intellect is too low, or he plans to weave and spin his way through it. Personally I think it is a combination of the two.
"How do you expect anyone to take you seriously when you claim a forum where everything is written down for everyone to easily peruse, and reread if necessary, os more easily "spun" than a talk radio format? Absurd."
Are you serious? It's a podcast bright boy. It is not one time and that's it. People can listen as many times as they like and even rewind and fast forward, pause and all the other good things. How do you expect anyone to take you seriously when you obviously have no fricken clue what you are blathering about?
The meeting was for you Ibo's who get on the internet and spend time here when you could be out showing the plan!
Ahh, the gentle art of negotiation. You're so good at it Drew.
Sorry Folks,
I was away for a while. But it seems Drew & DI have addressed all of "Insider"s concerns about "fairness".
Come on now, "Insider", the whole world is watching, the rank-and-file IBO is counting on you. Don't let them down. You are not going to let them down for a mere $250 are you? (insert taunting tone here)
Seriously, if I had offered $500 in the first place, would you have taken it? I am guessing, you would have said you needed $1000. You know it, and I know it - You are not going to be rich with an additional $250, neither am I going to be poorer by shelling out $250 for the challenge. Drew is right, I am getting sick and tired of IBOs making excuses. So, I figured, I will put up some money as an added incentive. $250, for cripes sake! I know it is not a princely sum, but heck that is not $10 either. You are making a laughing stock of yourself! Either you are man enough to take the challenge, or you are not.
So, which is it?
And you are darn right, Drew, I am not going to give this clown a penny more than $250. Either he is man enough to take the challenge, or he is just one in a long line of cowards.
Btw, I am busy right now, but I will come back later and give a few examples of the kind of "spinning" and "evasions" that you do here, which you wouldn't be able to pull off on a podcast.
Drew,
Why would my belief system need to be challenged? What belief system needs to be challenged? That this business does actually work for the vast majority?
I am perfectly comfortable with my belief system. Granted, sometimes I am unorthodox(sic?) in my own thought process- but that's just me. That's my personality. I am not perfect, nor have I ever claimed to be.
Question, if I am perfectly comfortable in my belief system, why would someone like you need to challenge it just because I am an IBO?
I did comment about your dept only because you opened yourself up to it. Maybe that was a deliberate bait for an IBO and I was gullible enough to take it. What makes me think that you wouldn't try something like that on your podcast?
Michael said:
I did comment about your dept only because you opened yourself up to it. Maybe that was a deliberate bait for an IBO and I was gullible enough to take it. What makes me think that you wouldn't try something like that on your podcast?
What in the heck are you talking about?
Do you watch news shows? People come on all the time and are grilled by the likes of Chris Matthews (who rocks!). Did you see what Nora O'Donnell did to Cindy Sheehan? (I am sorry she lost her son, but I think the poor woman is a little off...) Nora asked her hard hitting questions but Cindy Sheehan believed in her (misguided, I think) beliefs enough to come on and at least try to defend them.
Liberals go on conservative programs all the time and vice-versa.
Drew has said he will be fair. He's said that after the interview, he will post stuff the IBO wants to use to defend something during the podcast. If you want, you could come back protest to the whole world that he twisted things, edited stuff in or out, or whatever.
You guys should stop coming up with these lame excuses. They just make you look worse. Instead, just don't say anything.
Ever here the term, "I'm not going to dignify that with a response?" Though you may disagree, that's how we feel about your dumb little blog and podcast. Quite frankly, you'd be hard pressed to find people who've read an entire entry, including me. It is bitter, poorly written, and -quite frankly- boring.
At least Qblog tries to appear fair and keeps it entertaining. He's like Alan Colmes, wrong but still somewhat fair about it.
For any of us who are doing well in the business, your podcast is not worth legitimizing with our presence. I remember challenging by best friend's 25 year old brother to a fight when I was a kid. He just laughed.
So, to you my non-friend, I also laugh.
Can't wait to hear the tape from this weekend.
http://blogstar-thequixtarblog.blogspot.com/2006/06/envy_03.html
Javert,
You said: "For any of us who are doing well in the business, your podcast is not worth legitimizing with our presence."
So why don't you tell us how well you are doing in the biz? You don't even have to go on Drew's "dumb," "bitter," and "boring" podcast. It'll just take a couple of sentences, certainly, fewer sentences than the 11 you typed in your last comment.
Plus, contrary to what you claim, I believe many people will tune in to that podcast. The challenge has also been advertised on QBlog's website, which a whole lot of people frequent, and I think most of us would definitely tune in for such a rare occurence as an IBO actually agreeing to come on and give us some real, concrete information (hopefully).
Rara, that is exactly what I thought as I read Javert's last post.
I will come back to check his response. And I am not interested in generic, back-slapping, 'ain't it great' I'm doing so well, I want to know dollars and cents. What was your NET profit in 2005? And approximately how many hours did you work (yes, driving and attending meetings counts) to achieve it?
That's two numbers.
1)Net profit (after mileage, other travel expenses, all system expenses such as CD's and books as well as function and meeting tickets etc, babysitting, and shipping costs), and
2)total hours expended.
Thank you.
Rara,
"Do you watch news shows? People come on all the time and are grilled by the likes of Chris Matthews (who rocks!)."
Yor comment basically contradicts what Drew is trying to accomplish. I am all for it if it would be a civilized conversation....
No Michael,
My point was that if people are willing to appear on shows where they will be grilled mercilessly or even that are hostile to their point of view, IBOs, or at least some of them, should be willing to go on Drew's podcast, which he claims he will do his best to try to make fair. Heck, didn't he say you could also ask him questions?
insider> ahh, good one joe. Best you can come up with? Ignore the facts I post and claim they don't exist, then self-define Quixtar as a cult and claim it's low to compare med school to a cult! hahahahah
Joe> What facts? Who died and made you an encyclopedia? Just because you trumpet out useless information doesn't mean it's a fact. "insider is a worthless piece of bull poopy". I guess that's a fact!
insider> I see you still haven't done that elementary course in statistics JC.
Joe> Oh you mean like .23 customers per IBO. $88 average income. What other stats do I need to know that quixtar is a poor opportunity?
Perceptive, don't waste your money on insider. Drew doesn't need to make a fool out of him, he's doing a great job already, especially in comparing medical school to a cult and thinking everything he posts is a fact.
Drew: i am beginning to doubt you had any experience at being "CORE" in BWW.
I am in BWW, did that slip your mind? I receive WCSOT (which is WWDB CD) many times and enjoy their customer programs and DVDs.
Your statement of: "In my group tools from another LOS was frowned upon" what group was that? you upline diamond/platinum? Please provide those, because it is obviously not a BWW standard.
Rara can confirm this as well, did you have access to, and use, WWDB materials?
Furthermore, anyone with access to BWW.com can search under tools and see WWDB tools are completely accessible.
Question to WWDB IBOs: are BWW CDs/tools still available to you?
So Drew... i'm with Michael on this one. you seem to just be a volitile and fiery individual uninterested in truth (which you have proven to disregard about your own claimed experience!) and only wish to frame some sort of reality which enables you to 'crush poor ibos' I'll leave speculation on why you do this to those reading your ridiculous posts and challenges...
rara,
what's the point of grilling someone? what does that accomplish? nothing.
Being fair I can understand, grilling someone just because of their point of view, I don't. it's rather childish and immature.
Brad:
Yep, I listened to my share of WWDB CDs. But my upline did say you didn't give them to new folks.
Michael:
When I spoke about grilling, I meant probing someone's reasons and methods in order to get to the bottom of things. Think Tim Russert or Chris Matthews, as opposed to Oprah or Larry King. I'm not talking about people like Michael Savage (whose last name is very appropriate, by the way).
Just like when I defend my thesis, I expect them to grill me, not to in order to humiliate me but to make sure I know my stuff and deserve a PhD. Kind of like that.
Brad>> I'll leave speculation on why you do this to those reading your ridiculous posts and challenges...
Brad,
If his posts and "challenges" are so ridiculous, why don't you go on his podcast and put him in his place? "Rub it in his face", so to speak? AND, you get to take $250 ;-)... Seeing as "Insider" has chickened out, maybe you should step up and save the IBO's honor.
For a guy who had no qualms "Calling People Out", you have some nerve calling other people's challenges ridiculous!
As for the original post: is there vital information in these "qualifiers"? Well, not secret, but vital yes. It is detailed explanation of how the "core steps" or "building blocks to the business" or whatever you want to call it are applied to YOUR specific organization in the presence of other growing team members.
Anyone who has been on a successful team, business organization, etc should know groups tend to migrate towards the lowest member of those present, or somewhere close. So, there are times when only key players hold meetings with upper staff, superior business leaders.
Consider a 4000 pin in the area, holding a "qualifier" for his team for the emerald coming in town. The emerald has 100+ team members not including the 50 or so on the 4000's team. After the training, there is a "qualifier" for those that show 10 plans the week before.
WHY a qualifier drew asks? Because it shows that you are willing to do something with the information. It shows that out of the 400+ people on the emeralds team, you deserve more personal time. You remove the people who are in the "love club" or just hanging around for the fun of it and not doing work, so those that want to work hard have the opportunity to get down to serious business application without having to cater to those that want to just have fun, or just talk, or whatever.
Here's the part drew left out: how many people are allowed to be at the meeting? there is no limit!!! the only qualification is based on the work you do to get there.
It is a win for the IBO: they get extra work in that week to qualify, and get personal time with an experienced businessman.
It is a win for the upline: more work is done within his group and he gets to focus on more specific issues with those that will apply it.
That is the purpose of these "qualifier" meetings. If you feel less of a person for not being able to go, that is no ones fault but you own because you failed to do the usually minimal work to get there. So suck it up.
(Condition: In no way do i excuse an upline who makes this effective business strategy into a punishment. I have never seen this happen, yet i have heard of it. however, I have found the stories of it to be the exception not the rule)
Brad,
When I was in WWDB, we were allowed to order and listen to britt tapes, presumably because britt was upline of puryear. However, when Jack Daughery broke off from WWDB to form his own LOS (ILD), our group was "advised" to immediately remove and destroy any Daughery tapes, presumably because be was now crossline.
rara,
LOL I am not PHd calibre, nor am I Diamond calibre.
I also don't know everything, nor have I ever claimed that either.
I like to learn from others without having to grill them, but actually listen to them.
Javert> Ever here the term, "I'm not going to dignify that with a response?" Though you may disagree, that's how we feel about your dumb little blog and podcast.
Then why do you keep coming here and "dignifying" this blog with your responses? You IBOs want people to hear how great your business is, but you can't provide any concrete figures when asked.
It's your credibility that's getting hurt here, and if your business was really as great asw it is, you would jump at any chance to put the "critics" in their place. That you refuse to do it says that you're either spineless, that your claims are false, or both.
michael> what's the point of grilling someone? what does that accomplish? nothing.
See above. People who are confident in their beliefs have no problem going somewhere where their beliefs will be challenged. That not one IBO, except Tex, would want a chance to shove the critics' claims back in their faces says a LOT.
insider> Ahh, the gentle art of negotiation. You're so good at it Drew.
Just as you're "good" at honest debate. But then again, Drew doesn't need you on his podcast. Yet I can think of a numbe of reasons why you would jump at any excuse NOT to come on.
Are you trying to actually learn from us IBO's or just trying to make us look like fools
If you debate and provide sources for your claims, it's a good debate. If you're a fool like insider who thinks whatever he posts is "fact", well then you look like a fool. Also making ludicrous claims like medical school being like a cult will also put you in the "fool" category.
insider seems to think this his experience in the business has more validity than others on this board. Other posters seem to suggest otherwise. insider also claims to be in amway, and not quixtar. Last I checked, this is the "quixtarblog".
But I suppose for comic relief, having insider around is like the kingdom having a court jester.
JC: "When I was in WWDB, we were allowed to order and listen to britt tapes, presumably because britt was upline of puryear. However, when Jack Daughery broke off from WWDB to form his own LOS (ILD), our group was "advised" to immediately remove and destroy any Daughery tapes, presumably because be was now crossline. "
Interesting. When i started business, i was never led to believe Puryear was below Britt in LOS, but mentorship yes because of the tool system. (I understand, i was many years later...)
Regarding the advice to your team: Since the winter's broke i have not heard anyone say destroy tapes nor remove them (i still have many, and use them), but winter's tapes were taken off of BWW lists. Perhaps Winters is producing their tools through a different company than AMI and are pulling the tools? who knows about that. All i can say is i have not heard that happening in BWW and i question if those people that lied to you, or gave you this advice, were your personal leaders and did not represent all of WWDB?...
buurkkkk burkkkk burrkkk buckbuckbuckbuckbuck bekaaakkk!!
ROFLMAO
you guys are so full of self important drivel it's ridiculous. I have zero reason to go on any podcast, and absolutely zero urge to. Make it worth my while and I will do it, but frankly right now the price is going to start going up since the "host" is showing himself to be, well, a bit of a jerk really, and I don't particular like to spend my time with jerks.
(yeah yeah yeah, ad hominem blah blah blah. spade=spade)
In my 3 years of experience, I have never seen, heard of, nor been "invited to" or had to qualify for a "secret" meeting or a "night owl". Again, that's MY experience. Not everybody's. We've reached Eagle, therefore, attended the annual Eagle's meeting that the Diamond puts on.
The intended purpose for most of these meetings has been stated over and over by several IBO's. The main purpose is to INCENT people to put CORE into PRACTICE. In other words, do the work!
If you do, you get further association with & recognition from your upline Diamond, Emerald, EDC, etc. That is worth something! These are individuals (or, 1/2 of a Diamond couple) who have PROVEN themselves, typically, in more than just this business. They have practiced self-discipline, they have practiced delayed-gratification, they have experienced trying to balance God/church, family, this biz, work, social life. They probably have EXCELLENT advice based upon their own EXPERIENCES! Their experience may save the newer IBO time, money & pain that one experiences in striving for more out of life!
I was in sales for many years. I was quite successful. However, if I wanted the VP of Sales/Marketing or the President of the company to ride with me on sales calls, or go to lunch/dinner, I'd better have QUALIFIED for this honor & opportunity. This VP or President has more EXPERIENCE than me in the industry in which I was involved. It is no different here.
I do NOT however, agree with any IBO being "secretive" or mis-leading or deceptive with information.
If asked, answer. It's that simple.
Don,
LOL! It's my credibility that's getting hurt here? That's the funniest thing I've heard all day- like I've ever had any credibility here...
Also to your comment,
"People who are confident in their beliefs have no problem going somewhere where their beliefs will be challenged."
Again I am very confident in my beliefs. I ask again, why do they need to be challenged if they are different from yours? If I've come on here saying "quixtar sucks" I would be supporting your beliefs and thus wouldn't have to challenge them, or you wouldn't have to challenge my beliefs, correct?
I am probably not going to change your beliefs, nor are you going to change mine.
However, aside from that- to keep with the conversation of this post, The only BWW tape I've ever rec'd is the Britt tape called "It's all predictable"
I think there have been other tapes offered from BWW more recently, but I am not sure of which ones they were.
I am not aware of what a "night owl" is, but my upline offers an "accountability" team meeting on a weekly basis over communikate. The only qualification for that meeting is to either "show 10 or sponsor 2" sure I qualify for those meetings, but I rarely attend them. If I have questions I need answered I usually just kate my upline Diamond. I think they are more designed to help create momentum and motivation for your business than anything.
Just an observation:
Do you suppose that by putting these qualifications on "secret events", it got all the lazy excuse makers into action to try to qualify to get in the door? Maybe that would change a persons business? Or maybe there are other reasons (probably the correct reasons) that you haven't thought of from your small perspective? It seems like most people on this blog are simply giving reasons why they didn't succeed when all they are is excuses. But, I'd want the feeling of self-justification too, if I felt I failed at something and had to cover that failure up.
Although I'm just one man...just observing the masses.
I have to like the way Sally distilled the purpose of meetings, secret or not: "The intended purpose for most of these meetings has been stated over and over by several IBO's. The main purpose is to INCENT people to put CORE into PRACTICE. In other words, do the work!"
But I still don't understand why anyone would need this much relentless, repeated, and sometimes suspiciously similar motivation (weekly, monthly, whenever) to "do the work." I don't need to get a rousing pep talk every workday of my life. And let's all face it-- Quixtar/Amway is no business version of the Olympics, now is it? Could it be that the business in daily practice for the average IBO just doesn't live up to its promise of great personal success? And that these meetings, all of them, are designed more to keep people on the system than anything else?
truebeliever, No.
you guys are so full of self important drivel it's ridiculous. I have zero reason to go on any podcast, and absolutely zero urge to. Make it worth my while and I will do it, but frankly right now the price is going to start going up since the "host" is showing himself to be, well, a bit of a jerk really, and I don't particular like to spend my time with jerks.
Holy crap! Insider doesn't want to go on the podcast! OMG Drew, perceptive, you better make it "worth his while"! Without insider on your podcast, neither your blog nor your podcast has any reason to exist anymore! He has no urge, give him some reason to grace you with his presence!
Good lord, talk about self-important drivel.
Spade=spade, indeed. Bloody hypocrite.
Michael,
Personally, I don't care whether you or an IBO come on the podcast or not. Makes no difference to me.
"People who are confident in their beliefs have no problem going somewhere where their beliefs will be challenged."
Again I am very confident in my beliefs. I ask again, why do they need to be challenged if they are different from yours?
I am probably not going to change your beliefs, nor are you going to change mine.
Then why do you come on this blog? If it's all futile, why waste the time?
I think the main issue here regarding all the podcast talk is that many IBOs (not you particularly) try to refute what critics say here by making grandiose claims about their businesses, but when asked for actual details, refuse to reply. The podcast is similar; ie, if the IBO is so damn sure that his business can withstand scrutiny, why not shut the critics up once and for all? What have they got to lose.
It's the endless excuses that make the IBOs lose credibility, and not necessarily among the critics but among the 3-rd party readers who are perusing this blog for information.
After all, IBOs, if this is one big critic party, why bother posting here in the first place?
Michael,
I didn't mean that Drew wants to grill you. Again, my point is that people are willing to be grilled on TV in order to defend their positions, so why not accept an invitation from Drew, who has pledged to be fair? It's a question of degree. If people are willing to do the harder thing (i.e., get grilled), why not do the easier thing (i.e., go on Drew's podcast)?
I hope you get my point now.
On the podcast people (critics, pros and seekers alike) will be able to listen and even learn from you or any other IBO who takes up the challenge. I have offered to be a moderator just so it might seem less threatening to IBOs, but Drew doesn't seem to need one because he says he will be fair.
"Ahh, the gentle art of negotiation. You're so good at it Drew."
I am not negotiating with you. You are either confident enough to come on or you aren't. So far you only want to remain behind your keyboard. I find it funny that you think you are worth anything to come on my podcast.
You have been given responses to everything you have said here. What is funny is when you can't produce an answer you then call it an attack. You can't produce facts, you can't back up your claims, and you constantly contradict yourself with your own logic.
If you think I am a jerk I can assure you the feeling is mutual. But rest assured I will move on even if the almighty insider does not appear. What has happened here is we have gone from you saying you will accept, to demanding more money, to now basically backing completely off. Why? Because you keep getting your tail kicked up and down this blog and on the forum. Pretty soon you are going to tell us you are tired of this and that you are going to leave.....YET AGAIN!
"Question, if I am perfectly comfortable in my belief system, why would someone like you need to challenge it just because I am an IBO?"
I never said I needed to challenge it. I am offering IBOs like you who have come to my blog and have told me that my writing and criticism is wrong to show me where I am wrong. At the same time however you are going to have your beliefs challenged. One would think if you were that comfortable you would not have made any comments on my blog or elsewhere, much less have even visited.
"I did comment about your dept only because you opened yourself up to it. Maybe that was a deliberate bait for an IBO and I was gullible enough to take it. What makes me think that you wouldn't try something like that on your podcast?"
What are you talking about? You made a comment and I responded. You act as if I set you up to make that comment. I think someone is a bit paranoid.
I allow questions from the IBO, the IBO gets the last word, and I review other proposed formats by the IBO to get a mutual format. If that doesn't tell you enough that I am not setting anyone up I can't help you. Like I said you are either confident enough to come on or you are not. If you don't want to then I will keep you name crossed off.
Javert,
You have to be the most delusional by far. I think there are quite a few folks who read my blog, entries and all, including Qblog who apparently thought they were good enough to allow me to be an author on his blog.
Your credibility however takes hits with each and every post you have. Much like insider you think the world operates like your downline where you can say anything and not have to back it up with facts.
I'm sure you get laughed at quite a bit when you give challenges. Somehow I think it is because you become a coward when the challenge is presented to you but you all of the sudden find a backbone when you want to challenge. That is what makes them funny.
As far as this weekend, I have told you about a million times, and just like comments on your blog you apparently are moderating. Once I get my plane ticket and function ticket I will be there with recorder in hand.
By the way Javert, if there was ever an IBO here who has no credibility it would be you. I think you know that and that is why you moderate comments, and don't dare go to the forum. I guess you are one of those people who have selective confidence.
I can't help but wonder though, if you are so great and I am so beneath you why do you even respond? Such a mystery!
Brad, regards to the Jack Daughery break away. When Jack broke away, we were told or "advised" to get rid of our Jack Daughery tapes and destroy them. Our group wondered why Jack went from edified to no longer credible. You aks whether the instructions to get rid of those tapes came from my direct upline or from higher up.
Here's the response: My upline direct was a good friend of mine and he was a doctor. He drives a beat up old car and lives in a run down old home because the upline diamond advised it. I highly doubt that my upline direct came up with that idea, especially when he himself advised us to check upline if we wanted to have kids or buy a new car. In other words by upline direct didn't have an original thought in his head anymore.
It's sad really, This guy probably had sponsored more than 100 people when I was still active, and I don't know how many more since then, but he is still a platinum (but not Q 12)
and still dedicated since 1994.
To me he is a great example of one who did the work and did not make it.
Brad,
Oh what will I do now? Because everyone knows I care so much about what Brad thinks about my time in Quixtar.
I never recieved a SOT from a WWDB speaker, and when I was given a box full of WWDB tapes and CDs from someone who quit the biz. My upline Ruby and Silver said they would be of no use to me and that I should only listen to the BWW tapes by the BWW speakers.
I can't help but laugh everytime an IBO thinks they know all about what went on with you. They disregard personal experiences of others but then use their own to rebuttal some others. Do you guys really think we won't pick up on this?
Brad you above all are the most spineless. You came on the board challenging anyone who dared disagree with you. As soon as challenges were given back to you you declined and now are not even on the board.
If all I am doing is framing some sort of reality then you should have no problem smashing that frame with the truth. Instead though you sit back behind your keyboard waiting for others to team up with you on comments before you even bother to show up. You can't even hold your own without some buddy help, so I would never expect you on the podcast without bringing along a friend for your fragile morale.
You declined because you have no confidence in what you are saying. If you really believed all that you type you would be on in a heartbeat.
I have gone as far as contacting bloggers like Javert to tell them how to start their own podcast for little or no cost and told them I would come on anytime. Any other pro-Quixtar blogger that wants a podcast I will help them as well and will appear anytime.
I wonder why I am willing to do all that and you guys can't even pick up a phone. Something tells me it has to do with being confident in what you are saying and claiming.
I've accepted your challenge Drew, you just need to come up with my fee. Send it via PayPal to insider@mlmfacts.net and we can organise a mutually convenient time.
Brad,
Sure I don't have a problem with a qualifier, many times they were held at a place to eat, or doing something fun with a higher pin in the business. Those types of qualifiers allow those who are building the business to ask some direct questions related to just their business, and I can understand an upline not wanting the groupies taking up the time of those who are looking to build it.
But in those instances many times the higher pin has a meeting prior to the event where he talks and gives tips to the whole group.
What I don't understand is why you would have a meeting where you say a Diamond is going to give the "secrets to the business" and then limit attendance to only certain qualified IBOs. No one is going to get any personal time, the big pin is just going to talk. If your success depends on the downline success then why not get as many there as possible.
Also, why when they leave the meeting are they encouraged to not tell what was discussed or what points were given out?
"I've accepted your challenge Drew, you just need to come up with my fee. Send it via PayPal to insider@mlmfacts.net and we can organise a mutually convenient time."
No you have not accepted because you are still whining about money. If you truly accepted I would have an e-mail already an accepted format and a date. Perceptive already told you he is not giving you more then $250 so it looks like you will just keep whining as usual.
I have told you I have nothing to do with the money and so therefore I won't be sending you anything via paypal.
So you will either back off you claims for more money, cause you aren't worth it, and come on the podcast. Or you will continue to hide behind this money issue so you don't have to get your butt handed to you again.
What's the problem Drew, can't afford me? If you need extra cash, perhaps I have this idea I can show you?
hahahahahhahahahahahahahha
What's the matter insider? Business not as good as you claim so you resort to begging on the blog? Go panhandle somewhere else.
ROFL! touché JC!
But if I recall correctly, I didn't ask to go on the podcast, I was "challenged" to - so who's begging?
"What's the problem Drew, can't afford me? "
Yes I can, but like I said you aren't worth 2cents. So if you really want I could wire you a penny but even that is pushing it.
But one more time since you apparently have too low of an intellect to catch on the first 200 times. I am not the one paying the money and have not endorsed it. So when you get done whining to perceptive about what he is paying then you can come talk to me.
Until then you will just remain the sad sorry little man that you are. BTW, you are right you were challenged, you are either up to it or you are not. It is a real simple concept.
Instead though you have decided to play this game to try and avoid the obvious conclusion that you will not appear. I could care less if you come on or not. You didn't have the guts before I am pretty sure you don't now. After getting your butt kicked all over this blog for all this time I guess you have finally learned your lesson.
I am not sure about this idea you want to show me. This wouldn't be the same idea that has apparently left you so broke that you need to ask for $500 just to defend your supposedly legit business is it?
gee, how could I resist going on some podcast that i've never listened too, don't particularly care about it, and probably don't want to increase the listenership of anyway.
but then, ya know, me being so broke at all I probably should just LEAP at that $250 offer shouldn't I.
lol
poor ol' drew can't get anyone to talk to him and he's feeling rejected.
The offer of a challenge, to which those that have responded have been contacted, does not come with a stipulation that from this day forth i shall accept all challenges that come my way. Ridiculous.
And i'm with insider... you are really starting to whine about this whole thing. Tex is going on, insider gave you the parameters for his presence. Dont be a child... "but daddy, i wanted that cookie too, and that one" too many cookies are bad for you, high glycemic index you know ;-)
Brad,
It is not that you have to accept every challenge. You did not accept any of them.
You can call it whatever you need to so you and insider can your lack of confidence to one another.
That however does not change the fact that neither of you have accepted and Insider has only tried to hide behind the money so he still has something to hold on to so he can convince himself that he is not really a coward. It gets even sadder with you Brad when all you have to hold onto is Insider.
BTW Insider don't worry about my feelings. The purpose of the challenge was two-fold. One IBOs would come on and present their side of the debate and tell the researcing prospects why the system is so great with the business, and the second purpose was to expose the cowards like yourself and Brad who are out on the net spewing garbage and don't have the spine to back it up. So as long as there as still IBOs out there like you who don't want to play with me, rest assured you are fullfilling one of the purposes.
Truebeliever> Why anyone would need this much relentless, repeated, and sometimes suspiciously similar motivation (weekly, monthly, whenever) to "do the work." I don't need to get a rousing pep talk every workday of my life.
Sally> I do agree that some of it is a bit repetitive :-). Part of it, truebeliever, I also believe, is that it IS quite difficult to stay focused on a business opportunity that relies on others' willingness to change as well as relies on their accountability. This business is not a 'get rich quick scheme' therefore, takes consistent, long-term (2, 5 even 10 years) to reach a goal you have set.
People who initially get in are busy! They must figure out a way (with the help of their sponsor & other upline) to get used to studying & learning about this industry on TOP of their existing job, family, spiritual & social life. They must learn "people skills" as most don't have very good ones. They must also learn "leadership skills" as most people have never had to lead.
Most people also must change their habits. Their purchasing habits, their hobby habits (ie: softball, bowling, tv, partying, etc.). The cd's, the meetings, the communikate messages, the books all keep the new IBO focused on the WHY's & HOW's of building their business.
Remember, nothing is mandatory. You can make money without being on the "system". However, the "system" is invaluable to an average person with no leadership or business background, who wants to build his/her own business.
Truebeliever> And let's all face it-- Quixtar/Amway is no business version of the Olympics, now is it?
Sally> Perhaps, in a way, it is. For the reasons I just mentioned above.
Truebeliever> Could it be that the business in daily practice for the average IBO just doesn't live up to its promise of great personal success?
Sally> In personal growth, hopefully. Even financially, hopefully. However, it is a long-term business and many times a "backup plan" to the job or a secondary stream of income for the family's future.
Truebeliever> And that these meetings, all of them, are designed more to keep people on the system than anything else?
Sally> Again, in MY experience, they don't stand on stage and just talk about the "system". I have gotten real information that I can use that will benefit me & my business.
That may be different in other systems but MY experience with WWDB has been awesome.
"You can call it whatever you need to so you and insider can your lack of confidence to one another."
That was supposed to read
so you and Insider can justify your lack of confidence to one another.
Sally> Again, in MY experience, they don't stand on stage and just talk about the "system". I have gotten real information that I can use that will benefit me & my business.
How about providing a few examples of the real information that you can use to benefit your business? What do they talk about on stage then if it's not the system? How does it change from meeting to meeting?
"Insider",
You are Pathetic! Every reader here clearly understands, I am the one who offered money. Drew never offered you any money. In fact he made it clear he is not willing to pay anybody to have them appear on his podcast. He challenged you to a debate on his podcast, just as he challenged other IBOs. I got tired of you and other IBOs making excuses, so I decided to put up some money to provide an additional incentive.
Now, you come out and say $250 isn't good enough, you need an additional $250? Is this really about the money? The money is symbolic - a sort of a "I am willing to put my money where my mouth is" gesture. We all know $250 isn't going to make you richer, or me poorer. Yeah, if I had offered $10, I'd say you would be justified in laughing me off. But, come on, $250? No conditions, no nothing. All you have to do is go on Drew's podcast and debate him.
So, what is it? Are you a coward? Or, are you man enough to step up to the plate?
It seems "Insider" really doesn't believe in the Quixtar/Amway Business, or at least enough to defend it.
Perhaps other IBOs who "believe" would be willing to defend it.
Sally, can I interest you in an easy $250?
Sally,
You did a good job defending yourself, too good. I think you need to ditch WWDB, and start your own business. What are you really talented at? I'm guessing there's something you would love to be able to market, or something you would like to do that you already possess the skills to do. Try to make money in Quixstar, if you can, and sorry, but the odds are not so good on that outcome. However you can come by it,though, bank some money or expand your education so you can work toward a life goal that is a better fit with your true potential. You don't need to pay someone to teach you something (via motivational book or tape or meeting with a suit) that you obviously already know. All you seem to lack right now is more life experience and perhaps a little more discernment of other people's motives. Good luck on your journey.
Kind regards,
truebeliever
Well, duh. Do you think I care who comes up with the money? I don't. There's the offer, take it or leave it. I'm afraid I can't think of a single reason I should do drew a favour and go on his podcast. If you think I'm a "coward" because I want to be compensated for my time to help some twit promote his website, well then you have a weird definition of coward.
But gee, you folk are all so confident of the "thousands" of people that are posting all over the internet, pass the hat around! It'll be only a handful of pennies each after all.
Are you truly willing to put your money where your mouth is? Apparently only up to a point.
You know where to find me. I won't be holding my breath.
insider why don't you run the podcast and pay Drew $500 to appear?
Yes insider, everyone's just champing at the bit to have you grace drew's podcast with the honor of your magnificent presence. You know what, I bet if preceptive's offer was $500 originally, you'd have said "give me $1000" just to have any excuse not to go on.
It's painfully obious to anyone reading this thread that you're simply a self-important twit who won't go on a real-time broadcast because you won't be able to spin and weave like you usually do. Whether you go on or not doesn't really matter to any o the critics, I think; it's just fun for everyone to expose you for the troll that you are.
"Whether you go on or not doesn't really matter to any o the critics, I think; it's just fun for everyone to expose you for the troll that you are."
Couldn't have said it better myself.
Drew,
Personally it ain't about the money coming on a podcast. It's about being able to walk away from the podcast with a little bit of dignity. Again, I am very confident in my beliefs. Which is why I don't need to challenge them. I had to challenge my beliefs just getting IN the business!
Answer this for me Drew, if I came on this blog and elsewhere saying "Quixtar sucks", would you request me to challenge my beliefs? You won't give me a straight answer on that one...
Hi all. I just have one question. Does the business actually work the way they claim it to work or is money only made through the books and cds?
My goal from this is to only make $500/month to pay for my rent and then stop there. Is it at all possible?
Michael,
I have answered you on that, my answer has been NO! Why you ask? Well because I would be in agreement with you if you thought Quixtar sucked. So exactly what is accomplished by coming on a podcast where the person who is supposed to be challenging you agrees with you? Is that really that hard of a concept to grasp?
I don't see how you won't walk away without dignity. If your points are solid you have nothing to worry about. Also, I don't how to make it any clearer. If I am allowing a dialogue about the format, I am allowing you to ask questions, and I am allowing you the last word I don't see what you have to worry about.
If you were so confident in your beliefs then you shouldn't have any issues. This podcast is not for your benefit personally. It is for those who are researching this businesss. Being able to hear two people who have different views of this business question one another and discuss it, then it is left up to them to decide.
So you guys can cry ambush and setup till you are blue in the face. But that excuse will be gone once the first IBO shows up and everyone realizes that there is no ambush and you IBOs like to say the critics are wrong but are not willing to put up when those critics turn to you and say "Show me".
I don't need anymore of your excuses Michael I can't make this anymore clear for you, you either are up to it or you are not. As long as you are not your name will continue to be crossed out on my blog with a link to your site showing all those prospects who is blowing hot air for the sake of it and who is doing something.
"Hi all. I just have one question. Does the business actually work the way they claim it to work or is money only made through the books and cds?
My goal from this is to only make $500/month to pay for my rent and then stop there. Is it at all possible?
"
You will reach your goal quite a bit faster if you don't spend all your profits on the tool systems and conferences. But as far as quitting you won't be able to do that too well. You will have to replace those in your group who quit. Now if you get to a point where you are making $500 and the groups under you are pretty consistent and are not looking to drop out anytime soon I suppose you could then sit back and collect the checks as long as you do your 100PV every month with of course 50PV of that being customer sales.
Of course the time and effort it will take to get to that point is something you are going to have to determine whether it is worth it.
Drew says: Michael,
I have answered you on that, my answer has been NO! Why you ask? Well because I would be in agreement with you if you thought Quixtar sucked. So exactly what is accomplished by coming on a podcast where the person who is supposed to be challenging you agrees with you? Is that really that hard of a concept to grasp?
Brad> Can i say, a little? So... because this hypothetical Michael agrees with you, and since you think something to be true: it must be true and unchallenged. But because the real michael believes something different, just as passionately than you do, you only believe him or give his points the time of day if he comes on your podcast? Hum...
Drew>I don't see how you won't walk away without dignity. If your points are solid you have nothing to worry about.
Brad> this is my favorite part of what you said. So you are now the judge of what points are solid and what are not? This is precisely Insiders points of podcast vs forum/written discussions. In your podcast, you control this definition and thus the flow of questions based on your bias of what is a valid point or not (any talk news program or daytime talkshow?). In a forum, it is much easier or simpler for each side to lay down what they know, or believe, leaving bias up to the reader.
You see Drew, I believe you have a skewed view of what is a "valid point" and even reality as far as this business, or any business goes -- not to mention you're just a jerk -- but this is just my perception. For this reason, i chose not to partake in your podcast (i think we went through this before in the forum)
And the same as then: when this changes, you will know. ;-)
ResearchingProspect:
Welcome to this funnel you've found yourself. Intertwined in all this bickering there is some good information. As for your goal: it is COMPLETELY possible to do this, but i would agree with Drew -- be concious of how many tools, and how much investment, you have going into the business. Please refer to the Busines Reference Guide at this link: http://www.quixtar.com/Documents/IWOV/VIS/010-EN/PDF/compendium.pdf
It reviews the compensation (Quixtar has always paid me for the volume created) and it also clarifies that tool purchases should be in proportion to your level, or desired level, in business. Ask your IBO to show you the "New IBO" section in Quixtar and the "Gift INcentive Album" program where you can develop good business-to-businesss clients that can easily get you to your goal of $500/mo.
Take care.
So Brad,
I'll say it again. Why don't you or insider run the podcast and pay Drew $500 to participate? That way you have control.
hmm, let me see, maybe because (a) I have no particularly desire to do a podcast (b) I have no particular desire to talk to drew.
"Insider",
Just give it up, already. You are a coward, simple as that.
Then let Brad run it, or Sally?
researchingprospect, You can definitely make $500 a month in the next few months. You can do it through retail if you're looking for short-term cash or through sponsoring if you want an income stream.
Go eagle and you should clear $800 at 2500PV. After expenses, you'll have 600-700 to play with. Its too easy, just do the work.
Javert
http://blogstar-thequixtarblog.blogspot.com/
researchingprospect;
Are you with WWDB? The BIG PUSH is to help new IBO's make an additional $100-500/month within the first 90 days.
They are not teaching to "milk the new IBO for all their financial worth"...in fact, they are teaching to take baby steps. First, we must get you making money.
Like Drew & Brad said, be smart. If you sign up, treat this like the biz opportunity that it is and NOT like a "hobby" that you do only when you feel like it. Watch your outflow vs. your income. Make sure you use sound, financial common sense. If you can't pay your rent, for goodness sake, don't purchase 10 extra cd's or communikate until you are in a PROFIT mode.
Good luck with your decision & future!
Sally
P.S. Work retail. it's not difficult with the incredible products we rep.
Sally
Sally>> P.S. Work retail. it's not difficult with the incredible products we rep.
Sally,
Care to go on Drew's Podcast and explain, how you "retail" these insanely priced products? There's an easy $250 for you, just for going on Drew's Podcast.
What say you?
I wanted Sally to see this:
SALLY>
EXAMPLE 1: SA8 Bioquest II Laundry Powder 6.6lb box - 100 FULL loads per box – $5.70 per month/$68.25 per year
VS.
Tide Powder 87oz box - says 40 sm-med loads on the box - per Procter & Gamble, 21.75 FULL loads - $8.55 per month/$102.62 per year - almost TWICE the cost as Quixtar
EXAMPLE 2: Body Series Body Wash 33.8oz bottle - 125 uses - $7.50 per month/$90.00 per year
VS.
Neutrogena Shower & Bath Gel 8.5oz bottle - $11.94 per month/$143.28 per year
EXAMPLE 3: Bathroom Cleaner 500ml bottle - makes 4/16.9oz bottles which equates to 67.6 ounces of cleaner - $0.89 per month/$10.74 per year
VS.
Clorox Bathroom Cleaner 30oz -$1.09 per month/$13.07 per year
These are just 3 random examples out of a total of 23.
Joe>
Source: http://www.quixtar.com/Products/Default.aspx
**Per Quixtar Website: SA8 Bioquest (E-0002) $8.50 Suggested Retail Superconcentrated “Up to 25 Uses”.
So Tide gets 40 uses, quixtar’s has 25. About the same price. Hmm, Tide seems a better value.
You didn’t say which bathroom cleaner, but I will use LOC bathroom cleaner. (E-3854)
$5.50 68 uses for 500ML. Can’t make a valid comparison because you did not list the amount of uses for Clorox.
The Neutrogena example, I also cannot give a fair comparison because you listed the usage for the quixtar product but not Neutrogena.
So for your three examples, one has Tide being more cost effective and there is not enough information to make a FAIR assessment of the other two examples you cited.
Brad,
You are cleary so lacking in intellect that you can't even follow a conversation. Interesting how you can only seem to respond when I address others, but you can't when I address you.
If Michael was to agree with me on every point then what good is that to the listener to get both sides? The problem is your selfish IBO nature still has you thinking about yourself while I am thinking about the listener.
Answer me this though Brad if I was a pro-Quixtar, pro-system blogger who came here to challenge the critics to come on my podcast and discuss the business with me, would you accept the same excuses for the critics as you do for yourself? Can you be as honest with me as I was with Michael?
Better yet if a pro-system, pro-Quixtar blogger did finally start their own podcast (which I am willing to help them do) and gave a similar challenge to critics do you think they would be giving the same excuses, or would there be a waiting list? Again, how honest can you be?
Only a fool would think that I am judging Michael's points. Whether his points are valid or not is a decision that is going to be left up to the listener, again your selfish nature gets in the way, all about you, you, you isn't it?
Also, you must be insane if you think I am controlling the flow of anything if I am allowing the IBO to ask me questions in a turn-based format, and I am giving them the last word. Not to mention allowing a dialogue on the format so it is a mutual agreement.
If I was looking to set the tone I would not allow you to ask me anything and would certainly not want you to get the last word, not to mention I would accept no changes to the format. Apparently you have no idea what the hell you are talking about and are doing a simple-minded regurgetation of everything Insider says showing everyone who reads this that you can't even think for yourself.
But like I said Brad as long as there are IBOs out there who cry and whine about this you are fullfilling one of the challenge's purposes. For all of those prospects who are researching this business, this purpose will be made even more clear after this Saturday when I publish the podcast with Tex and they realize that all of your excuses are unfounded.
So keep up the whining and crying, you are doing great in helping me show prospects everywhere the kind of worthless hot air that IBOs like to spew without ever backing it up.
researchingproject,
I think that was very nice of Javert to tell you about Eagle. Also, nice of him to give you some math on it. Unfortunately, Javert has simply given you figures that has been told to him and he has never checked it out.
Fortunately, I have done the math on the Eagle program and you can go here to read all about it.
Good Luck with your decision.
I want to ask Micheal this:
Mike said "I had to challenge my beliefs just getting IN the business!"
Why question is this: You keep saying how you are firm in your beleifs, what changed when you joined Quixtar? This isn't an attack but a honest-to-goodness question.
And another thing about comparing SA8 to Tide. The Amways core products MAY be cheaper than the "suggested retail price" of the leading brand, but who ever buys Soap at full price? I know I never do, I always buy it on sale. I also know many people who will buy "no name brand" products because they are cheaper. How do THESE prices hold up compared to quixtar? The common quixtar question is "when does wallmart send you a check every month" My question in responce to that is "Since when does Amway/Quixtar have sales?"
Ok this brings up a different question.
when showing the plan we were always told "there is no sales involved except to yourself"
Yet you seem to contradict 'the plan' by saying "you can easiy make X amuont of money by selling XX amount of product" I thought were teaching people to buy for themselves not stockpile it and resell it?
I've got a computer business I can do that with.
Seems IBO's are full of contradictions.
researchingproject,
Here's advice. don't take any advice from anyone who hasn't done it. Eagle is a great start. It will get you 500-1000 bucks a month and you can do it in two or three months.
Excuses are like a--holes. Everyone's got them and they all stink...
"Excuses are like a--holes. Everyone's got them and they all stink..."
Eagle,
I assume this includes your excuses you make for your business as well.
I do find it interesting that you would not encourage researchingproject to do the math for himself and make sure it is worth it to him. Guess you know the math doesn't add up either.
eagle,
Just curious. Have you done it yourself? Eagle, that is. What level are you in the biz, so that researchingproject can really know whether he should be taking advice from you or not. If you are eagle, how long did it take you? Was it 2 - 3 months, as you stated above?
By the way, a lot of people who post here were in the business and reached decent levels. So he is actually taking advice from people who have done it. The question is: have you?
oooh .... "perceptive" (evidently not) ... I'm just quaking in my boots in terror at the thought that you might actually be able to drag up $500 from somewhere. Oh dear ... what should I do then? How could I possibly avoid the podcast? i'm so soooo scared ....
lol
insider, didn't I ask you not to panhandle here? :)
Joecool,
I addressed this in the other post where I originally quoted the cost comparisons. Please read it.
Perceptive,
Wow. I should be flattered....no? Am I being PERSUED to do a Podcast? As I told Drew, I really need to check out his website & think about it. I'll let Drew know. Thanks anyway, Perceptive! ;-)
Drew, Rara & Researchingproject;
We were Eagle. Javert is right on with the numbers. In fact, we were up to $1000.00 a month at just under 2000PV. Not with a lot of retail either, but instead, going wide with 2-3 legs deep.
Marc,
You can ALWAYS find it cheaper elsewhere. No matter what you're buying. Alot of people base their purchasing decision on price but also on quality, value & convenience. I sold technology for years for the TOP of the F100 list. They were ALWAYS more expensive than my competition but I almost ALWAYS won the business. Why? Value, benefits, quality, convenience, service, etc.
If cheap is all that matters to you, so be it...have fun "shopping all over town (or all over the web) for cheap". You can brag to all your barfly buddies about how much you saved on a 50lb box of "soap". You get what you pay for.
Also Marc, um, just so you know, in this business, you make money through PV/BV (the more the better) AND through retail sales. It's a mix.
This biz is based on word of mouth. It's a matter of sharing information with others. These products are of high quality at a fair & reasonable price. Plus, factor in convenience & service and alot of people will pay for that.
Not too difficult of a concept, eh, Marc?
"We were Eagle. Javert is right on with the numbers. In fact, we were up to $1000.00 a month at just under 2000PV. Not with a lot of retail either, but instead, going wide with 2-3 legs deep."
Were Eagle? Does that mean you fell out of qualification? I don't think that does him any good considering he is looking for residuals.
Also, is that money before expenses? I am pretty sure it is. Not to mention according to the math I did on Eagle, you were making money while the majority of your group was losing money month after month. Not exactly something I would brag about. Funny how IBOs always talk about "our group" except when it comes to the money, they never want to include the losses of their group in with them.
Not to mention if you say you did not have much retail but was pulling down a grand a month just under 2000PV that does not add up. Considering I am giving you 2.5BV for every 1PV, 2000PV would put you at the 15% bracket and would get you a check from Quixtar for $750 for your entire group. If you have to pay checks downline I am betting you are left with close to $500 maybe lower.
Even if you did all 2000PV in your personal circle that does not add up to $1000 unless you got retail profits, which means you would have had to do 2000PV personal circle and add on another $250 retail profit to get to a grand. Considering you said you did very little retail I am doubting you did that.
You and Javert are a part of that fuzzy math club. I don't see how a 2000PV group calculates a $1000 check left over after the downline is paid.
If I am wrong I would love to see the math on that. It just doesn't add up, not even if you did all 2000PV yourself.
Sally:
I know the concept, I was shown the plans a few times in my day (underexaggerating) and I'm teling you what we "were told". We were most definately NOT told it was a mix, we were told quite specificly "no selling (retail) is neccessary in this business"
Actually, we dont buy "boxes" of soap, we buy the liquid stuff.
I find it interesting how amway always compared SA8 with Tide. Tide may be absolute top of the line, but its likely to be expensive too (unless its on sale)
In our case we dont shop "all over town" we only have one major store in our area.
Like you said: Value is what matters.
I dont dispute that amway's core products are of decent value, but that doesn't neccessarily mean they are the BEST value out there compared to other products on the market.
But then you must be plugged into the system, how much out of that do you spend on tools? Because after all its not neccessarily Amway itself thats being debated, but the "system".
Also why is it that non-system IBO's dont buy as much of the CORE product as when you're listening to a CD saying "buy the products" etc...
If there is actual genuine money to be made in this business (which by the way no one has shown clearly) why do epople need to be motivated EACH week, day, month whatever. Shouldn't the money speak for itself?
Also when showing the plan do yuou talk about how much "work" actually has to be put into the business?
Sally said "You can brag to all your barfly buddies about how much you saved on a 50lb box of 'soap'"
Marc says Whats all this about barfly buddies? I dont recall ever mentioning that I go to any bars?
Is this another Amway IBO 'trick'?
Sally said "You get what you pay for"
I say: Except when it comes to Quixtar
Frankly I'm surprized more people dont think this biz is a scam. Of course there is the "rah rah all fired up" stuff.
I rememebr working in C/S for a program called PAYMAP, basically we helped people budget to pay off their homes faster. Nobody consitently does it on their own. Many people thought it was a scam (even coming from their own bank, which we were contracted out from). There was a one-time sign-up fee of $250 which came out of the first "biweekly withdrawal". SO many people refused to do it with this program because of that fee and then there was another fee of $5. It would be the best investment anyone could make, yet most people tohught it was scam (they never saw the 250$ fee because they didn't "pay" it up front) Yet amway costs about the same (give or take) and so many people fall victim to it and don't think its a scam, even tho it has a higher failure rate than Paymap ever did. So what gives?
Sally :
How much do people pay for this "convenience and service"?
With what? Their souls?
You guys got me. You wore me down. That's it. I'm done.
I have said my peace/piece over & over & over & over. I have given FACTS. I have given SPECIFIC NUMBERS & PERCENTAGES only for you guys to twist & turn them inside out & to throw them back at me.
I then look at the mess you created & realize that you simply are trying to use your twisted words to "trap" me or to "get" me or "catch" me lying or something like that.
Well, it doesn't work. I've got you guys figured out. You don't read my comments (not postings, Drew)and if you do, you simply ignore them. I specifically address your questions with detailed answers and you spin them and/or ignore them, only to ask them again on another post! What's up with that???!!!
Well. I'm done. No matter WHAT I say, no matter HOW I say it, you will NEVER believe me, you will NEVER accept my actual experiences as positive & profitable.
You hate Quixtar and anything associated with it. So be it.
I sincerely wish you all the very best of luck & God's blessings. I am worn out from being on this site. I must move on so I can get some 'pep' back in my step. :-)
At times, it's actually been fun (or funny!). Take care,
Sally
Wore out?
How come? Seriously HOW COME?
I mean really, I post here and when I'm not here I dont think about it.
Could it be that someone was on the verge of finding out the truth and relized they cant take it?
Yes *I* dont like quixstar and for good reason. The point I'm trying to make however is that there are legitimate reasons many people here dislike quixtar yet at every turn you say we are incorrect and that we twist your figures.
While it' may be true YOU are profiting quite nicely, how is your group as a whole doing? According to the math it must be failing rapidly. But then that's only because the people are "unmotivated and lazy" right?
Getting worn out? Try some Double X or drink some XS energy drink.
"When the talking get tough, the tough-talkers get going" (rght out of the site)
Something else I find interesting... seems alot of GOD-fearing people join up quixtar, of course it was founded by a Christian and most people do treat it it as a religion
"I feel fulfilled as a person by being in quixtar" Am I the only one not seeing a connection here between business and church/religion?
All I want to know is how the top IBO in a 2000PV group is making $1000 with little retail. The math clearly does not add up.
Marc,
Thank you for asking an honest question, not having to put it out there for some rediculous podcast challenge.
"what changed when you joined Quixtar?"
I think the main thing that changed me when I joined the business, was my perception of IBO's. People need to remember-I sponsored Quixtar- nobody ever sponsored me in this business. Every IBO I ever met was ready and willing to help me build the business-even if they were crossline. I wasn't sold on the income, I was sold on learning how to become an effective leader. I was sold on having a more positive attitude in my daily life. Income claims did nothing for me -seriously. Also, what sold me on the business than any other MLM could, is I asked myself one question before I joined. I asked myself, "would you buy these products if there wasn't commission or bonus structure attached to it? After trying a few products, I said yes. For me really, it's not always the price that does it for me either, it's the convenience factor. If I can wait 2 or 3 days to get it to my front door, I will. Hands down. Going to walmart or someplace like that is bull, really. Fighting traffic, long lines, KIDS, etc- no way.
Anyone ever priced out Simon Deliver's? Those prices are typically higher too- but it's the front door convenience that wins people over.
You may not feel the same way, but that's how I feel.
"Thank you for asking an honest question, not having to put it out there for some rediculous podcast challenge."
Does this mean you are not taking the challenge Michael? Are you STILL trying to justify it to yourself? Is this thing keeping you up at night? One would think if you were not going to do it and were comfortable with that fact you would not need to keep referencing to it.
You might be interested to know what Marc had to say about the challenge in another post, see below:
"I have seen at least 5 challenges to IBO's from this place. None of the 5 could step up. Personally I think if Q/S was such a GREAT business that IBO's would JUMP at the chance to prove themselves right and the others wrong. I know I would. If I beleived in something so much I get upset at people "atacking it" I would want to go on the record to prove my point."
No, Sally, it's YOU who doesn't read the comments. It's either that, or you don't understand them. Or you read, understand, and ignore because they are inconsistent with your beliefs.
For example, you repeatedly (as you point out) have told us about the 9-13% savings of Q products vs Target/Wal-Mart pricing (see, I read what you write), then gave us examples (again, more than once) of these savings. The problem is that the survey is inherently flawed, at least the 3 examples you provided are flawed. Instead of re-examining your 'facts', and perhaps re-posting the corrected information, you tell us we don't understand that this is a per-use comparison, so size doesn't matter.
When it's pointed out to you that per-use cost varies depending on size, you could use cost-averaging (figure the per-use cost at several different sizes and take an average) to, again, correct your information and post an actual FACT, but instead say you're being picked on.
The problem is the opposite of the one you claim - we are reading your posts TOO carefully, and pointing out to you that you have not posted facts.
Which gets back to what is, IMO, the largest inherent flaw of the AMOs that allows all the other abuses to occur: If the dream is big enough, the facts don't count.
Sally, I am here because allowing upline to sway his decisions lead my husband (and our family) down a road of financial disaster. I hope that others reading these posts will be spared the same fate.
You may feel picked on because you seem still to be doing some thinking of your own. There are plenty of 'fly-by' posters, who log an and write a very few, long winded (and unpunctuated) comments, ending with "you're all a bunch of broke, job mentality, dream-stealing losers, but stay that was because I still need a garbage man....GO DIAMOND!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!". These posts demand no reply, because clearly the poster has ceased to think for himself, and will only wake up in bankruptcy court. You seem like you could still be saved from that fate.
CK made a valid point:
"You may feel picked on because you seem still to be doing some thinking of your own." I gave Sally some credit in the same vein earlier in this long post.
I have noticed that Amquix has quite a few IBO's that are sharp enough mentally, but they lack that little extra bit of critical-thinking skill, self-analysis, or insight that will lead them the rest of the way out of the woods of self-deception.
Belief is a powerful thing.
And has anyone noticed that ultimately, many of the hard-core people seem to be in this business more for the sense of social community they get with their colleagues? It's more of a tribe or extended family than a business opportunity. And yes, we all desire that sense of connected-ness, and form our own tribes all the time. It's an entirely human trait. I wonder if their hyper-involvement with Amway is taking the placed of failed family ties, or lack of social clout, or some other perceived lack in their lives, much like a religion. Marc mentioned this above.
We all need to something to believe in, something to connect with, but it shouldn't louse up our basic human relationships and end up in "bankruptcy court," as CK so aptly put.
Drew,
How hard is it to just ask the questions you want to ask, and then respond on your own podcast if you so choose to? Is that too difficult for you? Or like I said before, are you just baiting an IBO?
I am not afraid to answer your questions Drew. If your going to ask them, ASK THEM! What's so secretive?
I am not afraid of your challenge, post your questions you want to ask, then I'll respond how I want to respond.
Also just an FYI Drew,
Your comments do not keep me awake at night, if they keep you awake at night-get a sleep number bed from select comfort like I have, you'll sleep like a baby...
"I am not afraid of your challenge, post your questions you want to ask, then I'll respond how I want to respond."
Oh I see you want the questions posted so you can have time to ponder your answer. I guess if I had low confidence on this issue I would want the questions written to me in advance.
If you are not afraid of it then there is no reason to not come on. Also, if it is not keeping you up at night why do you keep trying to justify your non-acceptance of this? I have not been the one addressing you, you have been the one keeping this going. I have told you already this is no sweat for me the more you make excuses you are fullfilling one of the purposes. People who come to my blog will see your name crossed out with a link to your site and they will know that you are one of those who like to put it out there, tell critics they are wrong, but are unwilling to back it up.
So one last time Michael you are either up for it or not, I have some time next Saturday evening. If you want on I will send you my talking points mid week and will see you Saturday, if not you will continue to fulfill the other purpose.
Yes Drew,
I want time to ponder my answers instead of just really vague "talking points". I really dislike going in unprepared.It gives me an immediate disadvantage. Do you like going into meetings unprepared? Of course not. You're the one who wants to control the information.
Most people don't go into meetings unprepared with just a scraping of talking points. They generally are prepared with a list of questions so that they can better articulate their thoughts and also have a sense of control of the meeting flow.
An IBO that can articulate, is that what you're afraid of Drew?
Pure information control there.
My Saturday evenings are generally planned out by my obsession with a local car show during the summer months. Schedule a time during the week. I've sent you an email responding. It'll be interesting to see when push comes to shove who really is the one who backs down.
Hi Drew, nice offensive post... it's ok.
You ask for proof, backing it up?
Here's your big claim: Quixtar made me go into big debt.
Really? Did you follow what was explained to do? Did you take advantage of all the tools available? Did you take advantage of the buy-back policy? and finally, where have you proven this?
I do not believe you were Core, too many times you have been ignorant to facts of the business(well, stupid, because you were either told it and didnt listen or were shown where to find it and didnt) and you have yet to prove that Quixtar/LOS was the CAUSE of your financial troubles, and consequently all the other life-troubles, to a greater extent than your own inability to be a good business owner, OR utilize all aspects of the business to make it work OR realize that you cant build this business in the first place and quit before you spent all that money.
So i leave it at that Drew. I do not accept your podcast, because i do not respect you nor trust you and will not glorify that podcast or your website.
Hi Brad,
You've said that since Quixtar, you've been able to reduce your student loans (and perhaps some other debt?). Would you please give us proof that you were able to pay off your debt at a faster rate directly as a result of income from your Quixtar business? Or at least, just explain it.
Have you been able to be a good business owner (i.e., turn a profit)? Please explain to us how to be a good business owner.
If you have not been able to turn a profit, are your expenses exactly equal to your revenue, or do they exceed it? If the latter is the case, you are losing money.
I believe Drew explained how he got into debt as an IBO. Perhaps you may want to visit his blog. You can also check out Xanadustc's blog for a very detailed breakdown of his expenses and revenue from Quixtar.
Drew isn't the only one who has claimed to have Quixtar-induced debt. There are many, many testimonials on this website and on the forum (including mine), as well as on other websites. Must be one grand conspiracy, mustn't it?
I'll be waiting for your explanations.
Thanks,
rara
Brad reduced his debt from his j-o-b and fiscal responsibility, not from quixtar.
Joecool,
You are most likely right. But I want to hear it from the horse's mouth. Since Brad asked Drew for evidence, he should be willing to back his claims up too.
Brad, I'm waiting.
"Hi Drew, nice offensive post... it's ok."
AWWW, did your feelings get hurt? Your right Brad, you have never been offensive have you? Guess someone here can only dish out but they can't take it.
"You ask for proof, backing it up?"
Holy Crap, on what? There are literally countless items you have left no proof for.
"Here's your big claim: Quixtar made me go into big debt."
WRONG! Quixtar didn't make me do anything, it was the lies I was told by the system. Also, I believe I have bigger claims then my debt. But apparently me talking about it a sore spot with you since you keep bringing it up.
"Really? Did you follow what was explained to do? Did you take advantage of all the tools available? Did you take advantage of the buy-back policy? and finally, where have you proven this?"
Yes.
Yes.
Uh, yeah that's why I am in heavy debt genius.
Tried to but my upline said they would only buy the tools they wanted and at pennies on the dollar. Never heard from him again after that so I tossed them, it's where they belonged anyway.
I am going to assume my story is not good enough so, what proof would you like? Also, be prepared to pony up some of your own proof if you really want to play this game
"I do not believe you were Core, too many times you have been ignorant to facts of the business(well, stupid, because you were either told it and didnt listen or were shown where to find it and didnt) and you have yet to prove that Quixtar/LOS was the CAUSE of your financial troubles, and consequently all the other life-troubles, to a greater extent than your own inability to be a good business owner, OR utilize all aspects of the business to make it work OR realize that you cant build this business in the first place and quit before you spent all that money."
So I am ignorant (or stupid) to the facts of this business yet you decide not to display which ones. Is it because I mixed up two bonuses for Q-12? Are you seriously still going to talk about that? I gave my response on the forum and interestingly enough you have had nothing more to say.
But if I am so stupid surely you would have no issue with exposing that for everyone by proving it on my podcast. Somehow though you still shake at the very mention of debating me. Makes one wonder.
"So i leave it at that Drew. I do not accept your podcast, because i do not respect you nor trust you and will not glorify that podcast or your website."
Oh trust me you coming on will not be glorifying at all. The only reason people will probably listen is to hear you get made a fool. Of course you know that will happen and hence the reason you refuse to come on.
No worries Brad, like I said you fulfill the other purpose. By you not willing to back up your claims and put a "stupid" critic in his place you have been exposed for someone who simply blows hot air without backing it up.
BTW, can't wait for your answer to rara!
Yes Michael we will see. I can guarantee I will not be the one backing down.
The whole point is that you have to answer without prepared answers. Talking points are enough to give you an idea of what we are talking about.
I am allowing you to ask me questions but you don't see me whining about giving me the questions ahead of time so I can prepare. Interestingly enough only you IBOs are doing that.
I will get your e-mail and we shall see what happens.
Has Brad made a profit from quixtar yet?
Has brad made a profit from quixtar yet?
Brad,
I've tried to go that route along time ago.
There's something there that's totally obvious that they are missing, but they really don't like someone like me or you to point it out to them...
***chuckles***
Drew check your email it was sent yesterday. I'll await your reply.
Michael,
I'm pretty open-minded. I'm also a bit dense sometimes, so that's probably why I must have missed the "totally obvious." Would you mind pointing out the "totally obvious" thing we're missing? It would enlighten me as well as those trying to find out more about Quixtar.
I'm also awaiting your response.
Thanks.
rara,
LOL! Like I said, and I am sure alot of IBO's recognize this too. Critic's like to talk all day long about how much they lost in the business, but they don't like it when IBO's point out what they did wrong.
It's sort of like saying, I can preach to you, but you best not preach to me.
rara, I've seen your posts, you're too smart to play stupid.
Michael,
Do you mean things we did wrong like buying stuff that was too expensive just to "support our business", listening to our upline and the teachings of the system, and joining the business in the first place (among other things)?
Okay, enough sarcasm. I believe most ex-IBOs take responsibility for their debt/erstwhile stupidity (I know I do) but at the same time don't let the system off the hook. (It's possible. Doesn't have to be only one or the other.) So I'm honestly asking, apart from the things I listed above, what did we do wrong?
I know insider has pointed out some things that some (or most) systems teach that are not helpful (e.g., stalking people in malls, er, I mean prospecting), so go ahead and let us know.
At least, it will be helpful to current IBOs to avoid making the same mistakes.
JC is right, and i have talked about it in the forum. It was upon guidence and suggestion, and time taken by my upline to explain (through example) how to run the business AND get out of debt. That's what i'm doing. It is an example of business owners NOT suggesting debt and helping other relieve debt to counter the few reverberating accusations, true or not, that all IBOs what you to spend money on tools and thats it... Rara, did i answer your question? You have really become quite venemous here relative to your first few posts... why are you protecting/sheltering Drew, et al?
Drew, i've said before: my upline Q12 has given full refund up to 2 years for tools. (provided the IBO has receipts). Prove your particular upline did it to you and it will help other's looking at this opportunity to stay away from him. To further prove that it was your fault, and not the businesses, provide calenders, Schedule C of deductions (helps see miles, travel, work in business) and your business plan from counseling sessions, and a counseling sheet per month. It is said Imran did this, but i have not seen it, nor have i seen anyone elses.
But, I am not the one making claims Drew. I have said many times my position in business and that i support it overall. I just point out where you go wrong and the dicotomies that drive your posts. Which further devalues your claim of being anywhere close to a CORE business owner in this business or any other. Which in turn brings into question the integrity of this whole site now that you are a co-admin person.
Brad said,
JC is right, and i have talked about it in the forum. It was upon guidence and suggestion, and time taken by my upline to explain (through example) how to run the business AND get out of debt. That's what i'm doing. It is an example of business owners NOT suggesting debt and helping other relieve debt to counter the few reverberating accusations, true or not, that all IBOs what you to spend money on tools and thats it... Rara, did i answer your question? You have really become quite venemous here relative to your first few posts... why are you protecting/sheltering Drew, et al?
No, you didn't answer my question. My question is this: Is your debt reduction directly due to income (I mean profit) from your Q business? It's a very simple question that just requires a yes or no. Your lack of a definite answer/avoidance of my question indicates to me that Joecool was right that you reduced your debt "from [your] j-o-b and fiscal responsibility, not from quixtar." Feel free to correct that statement.
Some other questions were: Are you making a profit from Quixtar, i.e., does your revenue exceed your expenses? If not, does your revenue equal your expense? If that's also not true, then you are losing money.
One last question for now: Have you been able to be a good business owner (i.e., turn a profit)? Please explain to us how to be a good business owner.
All the questions require just a yes or no. It's really that simple.
It's interesting that you are calling me venomous again. (You and I know this isn't the first time you've used that exact word to describe me.) I just reread the post where I posed the questions to you and I seemed quite civil, if I say so myself.
It's really funny you think I'm venomous because somebody else asked me why I'm so nice all the time. One man's meat is another man's poison, I guess.
By the way, I don't think Drew needs protection or sheltering from me. I was just trying to point out the absurdity of accusing Drew of not being a good business owner when you haven't even tried to convince us that you are one, much less succeeded in doing so. What I'm saying is people that live in glass houses should think twice about throwing stones so impudently.
rara,
You've pointed out for me and others what you did wrong very nicely, I must say. But wait, there's more...
For one thing, most people make the system a crutch instead of a tool.
This is still a person to person business, and you can't sit back and think the system is going to do the work for you. It does take time and effort, like everything else.
I really don't believe the system is to blame. I believe the individual is to blame for not fully utilizing the system to help themselves build a solid foundation. I think the tools system is best utilized for people that want to take the next step in the business (like going after those larger pins) if they choose to.
I have quite a few people in my downline who have never attended a function or listened to tapes, who just enjoy going out and retailing products because it's fun for them.
They don't have to do the big business stuff.
If you don't like contacting or building a downline- then don't. Find something you like, or a product you like that you can enthusiastically recommend to your friends and family, then go for it. Not just in Quixtar- but in any other MLM that you decide to persue.
You don't start out in this business selling books tapes and function tickets, you start out by retailing products and creating a positive cash flow in order to earn a PV/BV check. Once you've mastered that art and can help others to create their own positive cash flow, you can then graduate to earning an income from books tapes and functions.
You don't buy your way onstage, you earn it.
This all sounds like tapespeak to you though. Yeah, there's really something wrong there that you missed. I am sorry you missed it...
Michael,
What about all the folks who claimed they did all the things the system recommended: contacting, showing plans, trying to retail (i.e., if their upline didn't discourage them; actually I think PW did try to retail despite upline objections), listening to CDs/tapes, reading books, attending all meetings and functions, just being all around CORE? I doubt anyone expected Diamond to just fall into their laps with no work. People are generally not that stupid. I mean if someone expects success without lifting a finger, how much dumber can they get? (Let's forget for now that the plan is usually presented as being easy.)
Perhaps the system is to blame, at least partly. Or are you saying the system is 100% foolproof? Is there any such thing in the world (apart from God, that is)?
Or I guess all these folks must just be lying whiners. (I know you didn't say that but come on, you know that's what you're thinking.;) )
I Thank God everyday that I decided to get started, and built relationships with the team. My personal developement in people skills have improved and my relationships have improved. I used to be a mouse of a woman now I'm a woman of strength. And its hard at first, but every great endever is. I'm asking you to look at the business from a Christian and Success principal side. Please keep your eyes open.
Quixtar gives so much back to the community and the IBOs themselves are (for the most part) people of integrety and accountibity. Think how much Quixtar gave to Tsunami Victoms and September 11th tragity. Then on top of that how much the actual IBOs gave. Some nightowls hint to certian things: like hmmm giving for example.
We are in a business of building people up, not tearing people down. I'm sorry that your ego is so big you have to downplay what is truely a awesome business.
Those so called "Secret meetings" where you have to qualify teach IBOs who have done the work what to do from that point on. What is the next level I can hit? What can I do to help my downline get here? To say that you snuck into a meeting is good that you were seeking the information. To say that they taught stuff you already knew well good, Did you apply it??
And yes, they do talk alot about to build relationships and stuff you might call mushy. But this is a people business and once you get your life right with people those people will listen to you and you can guide them and help them through the challenges of life, you can help them become profitable.
Some night owls talk more on the physical work involved to achieveing a profitable business, not all, as well as not all are on the People building side either.
Build relationships and develop trust and your business thrives...Remember to much is given much is required. You have to hold up your end of the deal. You have to be accountable and a person of integrity (as outlined in any success principal book)
Nightowls and qualifyers talk alot about loving people and helping people, while society that thinks business doesn't need that. We're in business to make a profit right? Well absolutely, but don't forget the morals needed to build a business of integrity. And a business of integrity is blessed and will be profitable. Lay the foundation to success.
Switch your thought process to what really matters in life. Stop bashing and look at the real people behind this business, and you will see a great business of people loving people... Who, by the way get rich.
Rara,
No system is absolutely 100% foolproof. But I think this system was carefully designed to assist people moreso than actually try to hurt people.
I am not going to speak about "PW's" experience in the business. I don't know the exact circumstances pertaining his upline or his business.
I am more into learning what not to do, rather than not do it at all.
If you're truly into learning for others, then let others have different opinions than yours and let them decide to persue what they want to persue.
My biggest piece of advice getting into this business:
Make sure your honest with yourself before you invest and really think about if what your doing is what you really want to accomplish, and that your actions are inline with your goals.
"Stop bashing and look at the real people behind this business, and you will see a great business of people loving people... Who, by the way get rich."
Ugh! Saccharine tapespeak. More like people using people, who by the way get rich. I guess if someone pats you on the back while they pick your pocket, it's all good.
And will you IBO's please answer the burning question that comes up again and again: Are you making a profit?
Okay, I'll start. I'm in my first year in business for myself, not Quixtar, and I am making a profit, which means my money coming in is definitely greater than the money going out into the business. I'll have exact numbers at tax time, but I can confidently say I am able to support myself with my business income at this time. How hard was that?
"Okay, I'll start. I'm in my first year in business for myself, not Quixtar, and I am making a profit, which means my money coming in is definitely greater than the money going out into the business."
Ohhh... good start. Let me put in as well. I'm getting into restaurant business and have been profitable since the FIRST MONTH. I.e., Sch C (profit/loss) + owner's benefit (salary, excess interest on capital) = $$$$. I too can support myself with income from this business if my employer decided to lay me off.
Ebay business, also profitable since I ship the first item. Real estate business, cash flow positive since first month as well. I'm willing to put the scan of it online IF an IBO would also put theirs. Any takers?
true believer,
Yes I am making a profit through my Quixtar business.
Yes my revenue does exceed my expenses.
Yes I am also able to support myself from my Quixtar business.
What's the big deal?
How hard was that? Not very difficult to answer.
Now, if only Brad would answer my questions.
sorry rara... didnt know you were uninterested in what actually reduced my debt. Answer is no. no. and no. i have not spent anything on business for a while. yet am still benefiting from it. I have discussed this all on the forum previously.
it does not matter if i am a good business owner or not, it makes no difference, i'm not claiming the system failed me. It is DREW with the claims that the system doesnt work, or is flawed, and his debt is due to the system, and that he was CORE etcetc. I claim his inability to take responsibility is more the flaw than the system. Typical losers limp. You can see it on sports teams, competitions, school?, and business. It is apparent here, until proof claiming otherwise arrives.
And michael explains personal responsibility very well, much better than i could. Thanks.
So let me get this straight Brad, you have come to a conclusion without having reviewed any evidence about my situation. So basically you are telling everyone that you have no clue what you are talking about. Thanks for clearing that up for everyone.
I still find it interesting Brad that you have so much confidence asking for proof and demanding answers to your questions all from the safety of your keyboard, while you continue to not answer questions and provide proof yourself.
So tell you what Brad as soon as you provide me my answers and give me some proof of your claims that people have been asking for since you got on this board I don't feel obligated to provide any to you.
As soon as you put up I will be more then happy to answer any questions you have and provide you some Schedule Cs. But then again I have always been ready to do that, you are the one who runs like a coward everytime I challenge you.
Brad,
Okay, so let me get this straight. Your reduction in debt is not as a direct as a result of Quixtar income, and you are not making a profit. I take it the other no is in answer to whether your revenue and expenses are equal. So that means you are losing money in the biz.
This is what I got from your answers. Please correct me if I'm wrong.
By the way, can you explain how you are benefiting from the business while not spending anything on it? Does that mean you aren't on standing order, book of the month or communikate? Did you attend the last summer conference? If you did, where your ticket, food and travel expenses covered by someone else?
I'm just trying to get the facts straight so I don't make any wrong assumptions. Thanks.
Michael,
Thank you for answering the question about profit. How refreshing to hear something financially positive about quixtar.
Have you been in the biz long? Just wondering about how long did it take before you could pay your rent with this income? It took me about four months, because I only work part-time in my business.
PS out to rlaurens: You have got a lot going on, business-wise. I admire your ambition. I doubt you are spending the little free time you have reading self-help, feel-good books! Success itself is a nice motivator, isn't it?
Emily writes: "We're in business to make a profit right? Well absolutely..."
CK asks, again:
*So, are you profiting (financially, I mean)?
*How long have you been in?
*If you are showing a profit, does it include charging yourself retail, and counting the difference as profit?
*How many legs have you personally sponsored?
*Are any of them profitable?
*Do you know how to calculate profit?
Earlier, you told me that these questions were 'silly and irrelevent' (and also somehow were evidence of my hard-heartedness, an interesting concept, to say the least), but now that you have agreed that you are in business to make a profit, you can (or should be able to) see that IF the goal of your business is to profit, you must answer these questions in order to determine whether you are successful.
The only way for these questions to be
silly and irrelevent is if your primary goal is not profit. And if it isn't, then you aren't in business, and I again respectfully request that you not force those of us who pay taxes to subsidize your club fees by claiming them as a 'business expense'.
So, which is it? Are you in BUSINESS, or are you in a CLUB. The answers to these questions, as well as your ABILITY to answer these questions, will help you reach that determination.
Emily also writes: "I'm sorry that your ego is so big you have to downplay what is truely a awesome business". Whew. Do you know what a 'false dichotomy' is? Because you raise it to an art form...abstract art deco, or modern cubism or something, but an art form nonetheless.
What I'm saying (I will explain, since I have the distinct impression that you are either very young and/or not a college graduate), is that one's EGO has nothing to do with the viability of this or any other business model. Comparing the two is...well...I'll use a phrase you seem to sort of understand: It's silly and irrelevent.
Drew, i am pointing out that there is evidence stacking up that you werent CORE without any schedule C. Your own misunderstanding of QStar and business in general does that.
Rara, i'm not entertaining your assumptions. It doesn't matter what i say. Investment is not in your vocabulary unless it is education (So it seems, from comments Mevi's blog). You ignore that one can do good things through association alone... why? And as for the function, yes i attended by choice. So, out of 3 months, i spent $220 plus $15 in open meetings. sorry. I just dont see those as big expenses because the money would have been gone a different way. However, my choice in spending money on events without profiting from my own business says only: i have not put in effort to become profitable, NOT the business/systems failed.
Geez Brad, I just asked a few simple questions, which require just a simple answer, because I was confused by some of your previous answers. Perhaps if you just gave direct answers to direct questions, I wouldn't have to make assumptions. And I asked you to correct me if I was wrong. Geez. Chill out.
So even though you claimed you hadn't spent anything on the system, you now say you did spend at least $235 in the past 3 months.
I asked: "By the way, can you explain how you are benefiting from the business while not spending anything on it?" and you responded: "You ignore that one can do good things through association alone... why?" What does that have to do with what I asked? Read the question again.
You said:
Investment is not in your vocabulary unless it is education (So it seems, from comments Mevi's blog). You ignore that one can do good things through association alone... why?
I don't understand this. If you think that I think because I am pursuing an advanced degree, I think education is the only investment one can make, I don't know where you got that idea.
You really aren't in any way obligated to answer my questions, you know. If you don't want to just say so instead of responding but evading the questions. It's quite all right to do that.
CK
Now we are getting somewhere...The system and the business are seperate intites. (As posted before; Still Both vital.)(Mcdonalds can't run without a supply base (Golden State Foods) and can't opporate without the Education (Hamburger University) teaching and trainging them how to own their own McDonalds.
Supplier: Quixtar.com
Eduaction: TEAM
People can sell out to the Team of people but still put nothing in their pockets. (your club anolgy, which I'll admit that some people use it as a social club also stated before in one of my long comments) Use both, and don't use the system as a crutch, and don't blame the lack of disipline on someone else.
Apply the work ethic behind it AND plug into the system follow books (and other proven successful books maybe not found on the book list if you choose ) and the two intites will come together and you will become profitable both finincially and within yourself.
(by the way the best investment is the investment in yourself) (Rich Dad Poor Dad) But that's another topic.
If you're going to quote from "Rich Dad, Poor Dad," as if it were a valuable source of business advice or even "based on a true story," I suggest you research the author a bit. He is about as credible as that guy Oprah had to call out on her TV show for his fictitious memoirs.
Oh, so you have an initial franchise offering circular, like McDonald's?
No, I didn't think so. Does a McDonald's franchisee participate in Hamburger University forever? Does Hamburger University spend the franchisee's valuable time and money while he's attending Hamburger University to remind the franchisee to spend more money and time on Hamburger University?
Nevermind. How about you just answer the FIRST set of quesions (third time's the charm, right?:
*Are you profiting (financially)?
*How long have you been in?
*If you are showing a profit, does it include charging yourself retail, and counting the difference as profit?
*How many legs have you personally sponsored?
*Are any of them profitable?
*How many hours per week are you spending to earn this profit?
Yes, investing in yourself is some mighty fine feel-good clap-trap. Now that you have decided to do that, I suggest you learn HOW, which is NOT something you are going to learn from Mr. Kiosoki.
truebeliever is correct, success itself is the best motivator. Whether it's in retail, real-estate or jobs. When success is non-existent, then we need lotsa motivation.
And Emily, I debunked that McDonald's reference throughly in:
http://www.webraw.com/quixtar/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2516&start=47
true believer,
It took me about 3 years in the business before I was able to realize a profit. I've been in the biz since Nov of 1999.
Severe health challenges had been a temporary set back for me when I was starting in the biz, which is why it took so long.
"Drew, i am pointing out that there is evidence stacking up that you werent CORE without any schedule C. Your own misunderstanding of QStar and business in general does that."
Is this your way of getting out of answering my questions while trying to save face? Sucks when the critic is willing to post his information and you are not isn't it? Don't you hate when someone calls your bluff?
So if this evidence is stacking up against me please do tell what this evidence is. BTW, while you post all these mountains of evidence do define CORE for us. My def is doing the 9 eagle steps every single month. Let's see if the evidence matches the definition.
Michael,
I responded to your e-mail did you get it?
Michael, I can't believe I'm saying this--but good for you. I so rarely hear about anyone making a dime in quixtar. It's freaking amazing to me that you managed this, especially with all you had to deal with. Sorry, but I have to ask--did you yourself choose not to partake heavily of the tool end of the biz to protect your income over those leaner years? As to the present, is any of the profit you realize now related to the tool system sold to others? If so, how do you feel about that? I'm also guessing you live in or near a large metropolitan area, which increased your chances for success. If you achieved your success all based on the sales/MLM angle, I hope you realize how very lucky you are. Everyone I know in my area lost money, lots of money to Quixtar, and a lot of it was invested in books and tapes.
Drew,
Yes I did check my email. I am checking my schedule for a possible Friday podcast.
true believer, these would make excellent questions for the podcast..
Did you yourself choose not to partake heavily of the tool end of the biz to protect your income over those leaner years?
Yes and no. I didn't attend any of the major functions, but I still had my access to communikate, and I was still using SOT mainly for the motivation to work through my health challenges and keep a positive attitude.
As to the present, is any of the profit you realize now related to the tool system sold to others?
No, my income is strictly based on PV/BV.
Michael,
Thanks for answering my questions and sharing more of your personal story. We critics of quixtar usually hear more of the personal impact stuff from those IBO's who got burned by the system---the quix advocates seem more likely to share second-hand success stories from the stage performers who appear at their team events or "this Diamond a friend of mine knows.."
Here's another question I would like to see answered in the podcast: Do IBO's ever band together and rebel against uplines and other higer-ups who abuse the system or use their position to promote a political/religious/personal financial agenda that the group or a few members are not comfortable advocating? (I'm thinking of how some uplines counsel their downlines on decisions like buying a house.) Or is it an unsaid policy that the upline is your authority and you can't question that?
truebeliever asked:
Or is it an unsaid policy that the upline is your authority and you can't question that?
No. It is a "said" policy.
In the Gala org., the diamonds and emeralds kept on telling us how they did everything their upline said even if they didn't understand it or agree with it and that we should do the same. After all, one of the three powers in BWW is the power of submission.
Rara: i heard, in BWW, utilize the "shopping cart method" and "filter through a brain cell"
Question: will you accept that it is true?
Michael,
BRAVO!! ;-)
You just earned yourself an easy $250. Send me a PM on the Forum, and I can arrange to have the money sent to you.
Can't wait to hear the podcast. Would you mind if I had Drew ask a few questions on my behalf?
Perceptive,
Please keep your money. It was never about the money. If you insist, please donate it to a worthy charity in my name.
I haven't set a formal date for the podcast yet. I am seeing what will work best for my schedule and Drew's schedule.
Michael,
I think you definitely earned the $250. But let me know which charity you want me to send it to, and I'd be more than happy to do it.
Also, I don't know if you missed my question - would it be okay if I asked Drew to ask a few questions on my behalf?
Brad said:
Rara: i heard, in BWW, utilize the "shopping cart method" and "filter through a brain cell"
Question: will you accept that it is true?
I heard that too. Doesn't change the fact that in the biz, the most important "principles" are the 3 powers, the 3 cardinal rules and the 9 core steps. (I may have left something out.) And one of the 3 powers is the power of submission.
Also doesn't change the fact that we were frequently told from stage and on CDs to listen to your upline no matter what.
Brad, I understand your confusion. It's just one of the many contradictions of this business. Rather, it's one of the many cases of the "leaders" saying one thing but really wanting you to do another. Just like their fake list of priorities: God, family,..., business.
And I notice the grocery shopping analogy was used a lot on new people probably because they knew that people like Billy Britt would be saying some crazy things and they needed to tell people, "Oh, you didn't like what he said? Don't worry about it." They didn't want newbies/prospects to be blown out immediately. Before you say it, yes, that's speculation on my part. But it's educated speculation.
Rara,
The three powers were power of submission, power of the spoken word, and power of unity. I also remember there being "3 nevers" that always went with the 3 cardinal rules.
I remember the grocery shopping theory that was given, and I heard stories from stage when it was given also. Many times the story did give reference to people not liking Dex or Bill when they heard them and sometimes for the religious talk of some of the Diamonds.
Brad,
I'm still waiting for some answers from you.
Perceptive,
According to Drews rules, the IBO podcast challenge consists of only 5 questions each in a round table format.
Depending on the time limit and how many other questions are asked, you just might be able to ask a couple of questions, but they will be included in the 5 question limit.
Again, I haven't set a formal date with Drew at this time.
Michael>> Depending on the time limit and how many other questions are asked, you just might be able to ask a couple of questions, but they will be included in the 5 question limit.
That should be quite all right. I'll check with Drew also, to see if it's okay with him.
Also, when you have hashed out a formal date for the podcast, let me know the name/address of the charity, and I will send the money to them and have them send you a receipt.
There is no limit. It is my estimation that only 5 questions a piece will get asked. It all depends on time limit. We could get 20 questions asked, who knows. If I run out of questions and there is still time you could end up asking me more. There is no question limit.
The two important points to focus on is a question for question format and IBO gets last word.
I once snuck into one of Brad Duncan's platinum only meetings...it wasn't that fancy. He just talked about loving your group, serving them, getting them profitable before they decide it isnt for them...
(nothing about HOW to get them profitable...)
Posted by: Mevi | July 8, 2006 7:21 AM