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July 12, 2006
Scobleizing Quixtar
By QBlog in Quixtar
Adding a few comments of my own to the recent Scobleizing of Quixtar that Drew pointed out in his "Link To Your Enemies?" post.
Robert Scoble understands the Web and why blogging is important. He built his reputation as being the one guy at Microsoft who "gets the Web" and then he left Redmond to join PodTech.net, a podcasting outfit that also "gets it."
Recently he's been posting about putting a human face on corporate giants like Dell and Quixtar. Dell joins the bloggy Web highlights the computer manufacturer's entry into the blogging realm and adds and interesting comment about Quixtar:
Link to your enemies. It takes away their karmic power.
I told Quixtar to link to everyone who says that Quixtar sucks. There are QUITE A FEW!
Why do that? Well, it takes away our power to poke at your negative spots if you openly admit them. That turns throwing rocks through your front window into a boring exercise.
Embrace The Critics
Scoble is absolutely, dead-on right. I've been preaching the same thing on this blog for nearly four years. It's why I link to and try to engage my critics. Embracing them strips them of their power and creates a level playing field where the value of the content is determined by its merits, not by perception.
Scoble goes on to explain that the next Web is the human Web which is a "bloggy Web. A Web with real people talking about real stuff on it." He apparently met with some Quixtar tech folks who admitted that they'd been "misled by a SEO firm" that told them to employ "Scientology-like tactics" against their critics as one commenter put it.
Misled indeed. What's really curious is the response by Robin Luymes (bless his Canadian heart), Quixtar's Manager of Public Relations. You can see that he's really, really trying to "get it" but he just can't hang up his corporate PR hat long enough to finish his comment.
Some people, friends and foes alike, have opined that our “Web Initiative Strategy” (not our term, by the way) is purely about drowning out the opposition. Frankly, if that were our goal, we would simply open up the floodgates to several hundred thousand IBOs to create web content and share their positive experiences. We are exploring ways to provide more opportunities for our IBOs to share their experiences, since right now our critics have much freer rein to share their opinions than do our own representatives.
Web Reputation Task Force
Actually, Quixtar's internal term for their Web strategy was "Web Reputation Task Force." I think "Web Initiative" sounds less... uh... gay. But if Luymes wants to quibble about the origin of terms, I'm fine with using WRTF. And if opening those IBO floodgates were an option, I say open those bad boys up. Bring on the "several hundred thousand IBOs" to post their happy blogs.
Oh, but that's not part of Quixtar's goals is it? Nope. What is Quixtar's goal? It's not immediately clear but what is clear is that there's NOTHING preventing IBOs from starting and maintaining their own blogs. How long has Dave's blog been running? A long damn time in Web years. And he's not alone.
Making Strides
I'd be remiss if I didn't point out that Quixtar is making strides to improve its Web image. I think ditching that horrible SEO consultant was a great move towards the Web that Scoble describes. I've seen Quixtar get smarter about how it approaches its critics and those I've talked to on the inside are seeing a slow and steady cultural shift towards openness. They've still got a long way to go but I have confidence that eventually (and maybe with the help of this blog) Quixtar will get there.
UPDATE:
I just want to clarify why I believe Scoble is right. The first thesis of the cluetrain manifesto is "Markets are conversations." This is as true today as it was when Chris Locke, Doc Searls and David Weinberger wrote it a few years ago. Basically Scoble is just repeating this truth and framing it in the context of blogging.
Blogging is a conversation. And if markets are conversations then Quixtar would benefit from entering that market as a participant, not a behemoth trying to control it. The moment a participant tries to control a conversation the communication becomes a lecture. A long, boring lecture with Power Point slides and bad coffee.
And Scoble's point about the human Web is right on. Have you ever had a conversation with a person wearing a mask? It's a little disconcerting. It's much more natural to converse with a human face and hear that face speaking naturally.
Why is it so hard for Quixtar to simply join the conversation? They have nothing to lose and everything to gain. If Quixtar really wants to neuter its critics then joining them in the conversation, embracing them as opposed to trying to control them, is the best way to accomplish that task. Or maybe Quixtar needs its critics to be a potent force on the Web? After all, critics with power to provide a handy scapegoat when business is down.
Comments
Kia Says:
"“Web Initiative Strategy” (not our term, by the way) is purely about drowning out the opposition. Frankly, if that were our goal, we would simply open up the floodgates to several hundred thousand IBOs to create web content and share their positive experiences."
Hi there! Are you aware of what Casey Combden was trying to get his group to do? His group and Orrin Woodward's group? Check out the latest edition of QBlog Radio. They are/were attempting to eliminate negative on the web with that precise MO.
If that is not one of Quixtar's goals, then why would Quixtar allow that? Was Casey or Orrin spoken to about this?
If not, why not?
I rest my case.
And this is PRECISELY why you will NEVER see Quixtar represent themselves on the web to their critics.
The truth is obvious, but painful to deal with. I doubt we'll see much more of Kia explaining their little strategy, let alone inviting people to poke holes in Quixtar's shady dealings with the unethical "leaders".
That would mean Quixtar would have to start dealing with the problem.
Quixtar is hooped reputation wise, and they have only themselves to blame.
Rara, Quixtar IBOs have something to lose for cannonball statements: their contract with quixtar. Like it or not, contractual agreements are in all business and they all have limitations. You are now free to say whatever you want, the only thing that can get you in trouble with QStar is poaching LOSs for another year or so.
QBlog- thanks for the update. It is good to see a sign of neutrality come back here... it has been absent for a long while.
I think it is funny that they want IBO's to have free reing to post on their experiences, but they still have password protected sites. So even if someone wants to go see this positive stuff, they can't
oops, I spelled reign wrong
"Embracing them strips them of their power and creates a level playing field where the value of the content is determined by its merits, not by perception."
I like this idea. I don't think Quixtar and the MOs do however. I think they are bright enough to realize that on a level playing field with all the chips on the table things are not looking good for them right now.
I think Drew nails it. For years, AMO's tried to hide any and all information that didn't come from the AMO itself, including information that came from the Amway/Quixtar corp. How many IBO stories contain a bit about being told not to read the paper, watch t.v., or listen to the radio, but instead listen to AMO tapes and read AMO approved books? The question is why?
The answer is because the truth will not set AMO's free. They are afraid of the truth. It's why AMO's and big pins hid the fact they made the majority of their money from tools for years.
However, the web changed all this. At first, Amway could just call the web the bathroom walls, but eventually, Amway changed to become Quixtar, an online company! How could AMO's keep IBO's out of the bathroom if they were, in fact, in the bathroom themselves! AmQuix certainly tried, but the web is just too dynamic, and too ingrained into our culture to be controlable.
The AmQuix corporation might not mind linking to critics and trying to join the conversations, but what do AMO's have to gain? The truth about AMO's hasn't changed, even if they have been a bit more open. The pitiful success rates haven't changes, and neither has the huge drop out rates. Just imagine what would happen if a large number of IBO's started blogging. In less then a year, 2/3 of the blogs (percent of IBO's who quit in a given year) would go from being posted by positive IBO's to either quitters, or worse, negative anti-Quixtar people!
I'm all for a healthy brush/forest fire... its the natural progression: burn all the junk out, and the forest grows back stronger than ever. This will turn out to be a really good thing.
Brad, I absolutely agree. It's getting warm and I smell smoke:)
smell smoke? Then put out that Cigarette!
Aren't forest fires actually BAD? If they were so good why would they invent Smokey the Bear?
I also find it interesting that people cant back up their "theories" with facts.
I have seen at least 5 challenges to IBO's from this place. None of the 5 could step up. Personally I think if Q/S was such a GREAT business that IBO's would JUMP at the chance to prove themselves right and the others wrong.
I know I would. If I beleived in something so much I get upset at people "atacking it" I would want to go on the record to prove my point.
This applies too all of you "pro-Quix"; Sally, Insider (whom I trust to be simply a pro-Q internet troll), Brad, and all the other IBO's out there.
Why not show us some cents (as in dollars and cents) for some real "proof" instead of "This business has helped me to grow as a person" blah blah blah. Thats not business, that's religion.
"I have seen at least 5 challenges to IBO's from this place. None of the 5 could step up. Personally I think if Q/S was such a GREAT business that IBO's would JUMP at the chance to prove themselves right and the others wrong.
I know I would. If I beleived in something so much I get upset at people "atacking it" I would want to go on the record to prove my point."
And now we all know what Drew means when he says there are two purposes to the challenge and as long as IBOs whine and make excuses about why they cannot come on one of those purposes is being fullfilled as Marc has pointed out for us.
i do not like to argue because if you argue, your point will never get across. I'm feeling some serious need for some people skills that most Successful people in ANY area of life usually have people skills. If you try to pick at someone else's view and slam it in their face it usually doesn't work. You may have proven a point, but they are still of the same persuation. That's why. Your mind set is the same and we can not change it we have better things to do like Building our business.
Why is quixtar the largest multi-level marketing business if it supposeably doesn't work? If it doesnt work why do people get in. I'm not trying to slam you and I'm not calling you dream stealers or naughty names. I feel you need to have an open mind. Honestly you can not get a feel for our organization without truely getting to know the people. From what I'm seeing is people of integrety and honesty. I am part of a fun loving, money making organization that has seen people go from 0-7500 in 7 months. Now properly structured you can make some significant income. I know a guy personally who is 24 and just graduated college with a Business degree and didn't have a job while in school and stepped out of school without one too. He paid cash for his tuition to a state school and I have seen his cash personally from his Quixtar income. I have seen his checks and I know it works. Yet I've seen him from when he didn't make so much. Financially free by the age of 24 is pretty good. Now. I have also seen his downline have success, I have seen my mentor's mentor go from a couple hundred a month to a couple thousand a month. I have seen My upline Diamond go from Emerald to Diamond in 2 years. I have seen their home. I have been watching close and been very skepical at first. But with all the success why not dive in head first? Especially when my sponsor was someone I knew before the business and she wouldn't do anything to hurt me? Also. Why is it a sin to make money from those who also make money? Also What is your job like? Does the owner of the company make money off of you? God forbid that to happen.
I Thank God everyday that I decided to get started. My personal developement in people skills have improved and my relationships have improved. I used to be a mouse of a woman now I'm a woman of strength. And its hard at first, but every great endever is. I'm asking you from a Christian and Success principal side. Please keep your eyes open and don't rule out the possiblity that some people love our business. Quixtar gives so much back to the community and the IBOs themselves are (for the most part) people of integrety and accountibity. Think how much Quixtar gave to Tsunami Victoms and September 11th tragity. Then on top of that how much the actual IBOs gave. You ought to look that up. Yes ONE rotton apple can ruin the whole basket as well as a couple. Some people succeed some don't that is mostly thier own doing. We can try to help them along the way. But we will not waste our time with someone who doesn't want help.
The upline is like a friend that has been through the mine field before. They know what works and what doesn't EVERY starts at 0. No one steps into a business with people already lined up. NO ONE has the mentality of a Diamond when they get started. No one. Myself included.
I'll admit to some faults, and every business does. I do not like argueing and IBOs stay away from here because it's like fighting with a stone post with your bare hands (you like the midwestern farmer humor?) You can't beat a limestone rock with your fist and expect it to win. As my mom always said "Your like argueing with a stonepost" Open your mind and quit thinking we are slamming you.
I don't know where these so called "FACTS" come into play other than the opions of people who have failed in their own network. I apoligize for your failure, but that doesn't mean everyone fails. I real winner would have stuck it out. Did you read success principal books? Maybe your additude needed to change. I do not want to bash you cause I see a greatness inside of you that can be drawn out.
We are in a business of building people up, not tearing people down. I'm sorry that your ego is so big you have to downplay what is truely a awesome business. The way I see it, if there is so much negitive online and what not, why still does Quixtar thrive? Why do people grab ahold of this thing and it changes their lives? Why do people even if they quit..like my friend, she decided to go into missions? Why are people drawn to us? Maybe because there is a much greater power at work than pv and bv and uplines and tools. Maybe there is a greater picture that you will see maybe in time. I'm not sold out to my upline, I'm not sold out to my business, I'm sold out to my heavenly Father. Which I have fasted and prayed and I truely believe this business is Ok.
What is wrong with lifting people up? What is wrong with helping people? What is wrong with getting rich and giving the money away? Nothing. Forget the pv, and bv. Lay waste the money (which by the way is pretty good) :) And look deeper into yourselves. I truely believe you are searching to fill an emptiness inside yourself that a business, nor money, nor ego can fill. Stop bashing and look at the real people behind this business.
If our business was bogus, Why are 60% of the fortune 500 companies involved with us? I'm pretty sure they do some deep research to see if our business is legimate. Consider the real facts This is not a moment, this is a movement. And we are setting the people free in thier finances, their mind, and their spiritual lives. I would truely like to meet you and see what kind of greatness I can draw out of you.
What's going on with you, Emily? You keep on posting the same long-winded posts on different threads. Who knows if you are reading this? You may be one of those hit and run posters.
And putting a space after each paragraph will help with ease of reading, if you intend for folks to read your posts, that is.
"Your mind set is the same and we can not change it we have better things to do like Building our business."
So exactly why are you here typing a big long comment arguing for Quixtar if our minds are already set?
"If you try to pick at someone else's view and slam it in their face it usually doesn't work. You may have proven a point, but they are still of the same persuation."
Hence the problem, you IBOs think that we really care about changing your minds. WRONG! Many of us have been IBOs and know that it is almost impossible, an IBO only wakes up when they are ready to.
However even you agree that we are making our points and it is those points that are here for those researching this biz, or looking for more information about it. It seems the IBO nature is a selfish one always thinking that everything has to do with them. So as long as our points are being made that is all that matters.
Good to see that you agree we are making our points. There is still hope for you.
Ever notice how IBO's tend to mention certain books presented by the "system" when they want to prove a point "have you heard this tape, have you read this book"
I have a "friend" who is in Amquix and does the same thing...
Got any insight Drew?
Because that is all they have to prove their point. It is sad I know but it is why they do it. They heard it from stage, read it in a book, or heard it on a CD and liked it and they wanted to use it.
So they regurgetate it, and we call that Tapespeak.
Emily,
From what I know about most LOS's, appearance is very important. You need to dress a certain way for functions, carry yourself a certain way. It would be helpful in your posts, in order to make the best impression, to use paragraph breaks from time to time and check your capitalization. If you have spell check, that would be helpful, also. I'm not trying to be picky, but the skill of communicating via writing is one area that Quixtar fails to cultivate in their IBOs. I'm just looking at Quixtar from a professional point of view.
Did you know...you can do Eagle volume with strickly Members and Clients, now called Customers?
Now that eliminates that 250 bucks spent on doing your own volume. My upline helped me when he knew my finaces were not working for me as a college student without a job. He gave me advice on getting customers.
There are ways around all the expenses. Also, at the 1500 Eagle level your business will easily pay for itself. ESPECIALLY if you have customers. (example my mom did 124pv last month as a customer)
(The eagle part is essential)
Also, I sold 4 energy drinks to my cube mate at work...8 bucks there.
A 2 dollars here, a dollar there. A box of meal bars here to those who work out and want to be healthy, a few bucks there for tea.
(by the way 19.pts for like 24 dollars) Good PV.
The business gets better everyday. And it is not saturated cause millions of babies are born, Lots of people turn 18 every year.
Sorry if it sucked for you in the 80s and early 90s. It's good now. I'm glad people are profiting now.
Emily,
So by telling us that people are profiting now you mean what? The majority? A few? People you know? How many times have we heard that line of tapespeak from IBOs? Of course by saying all of this you have the evidence to back up your statements I assume?
OH wait that's right you IBOs never have evidence, because when the dream is big enough the FACTS don't count do they?
I am and my upline is, and my downline is so I frankly don't care. I made it work, so can others. I'm not taking advantage of my customers who like my products, they choose to buy it I don't force them to.
The end.
Bye
(According to QBlog,) Robin Luymes said:
We are exploring ways to provide more opportunities for our IBOs to share their experiences, since right now our critics have much freer rein to share their opinions than do our own representatives.
Exactly how do critics have "much freer rein" than IBOs to share anything? I thought anyone could start a blog. Or do Quixtar's rules prohibit IBOs from having blogs? (I doubt it.)
It's crazy statements like this that make me suspicious of their true intentions.
Posted by: rara | July 12, 2006 6:05 AM