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July 5, 2006
In Their Own Words - 9
By Xanadustc in Their Own Words
For today’s clip, I reach into a newly acquired box of tapes from TEAM. According to Chris Smith:
So why am I going through all this? Because, our system… is the answer to most of the questions that you have.
Why won’t someone make a big names list? Probably because they are not doing those three things.
So if you are listening for the first time, or you are hearing this on tape, stop what you’re doing right now, call the person that got you started, or let the person that brought you here, and ask to be on the system. You need to be on tape of the week and book of the month. That is absolutely vital. Everything else doesn’t matter until you are on that. At some point you have to be a part of that. That is what is going to set you free in this, because you need to grow and change as you grow along.
Download Need System [MP3] “The Names List”, PPS82, Team of Destiny
I wonder if Quixtar would agree to that. Frankly, I do not see how being on the Standing Order programs help to write down a list of names. I also thought the system participation was optional, not mandatory, (of course, success is not either!)
Comments
The thing is, once you're there - straining to stay awake, desparate to make it work - you'll listen to anything.
Most things I heard don't even make sense now.
Funny you mention being tired during the seminars. One of the best lines I ever heard was from an open meeting where fatigue was starting to set in.
The speaker proclaimed - The system is like a colon blow for your mind! Inject it and it will clear out all of that bad stuff that has accumulated over the years.
Everyone just kind of laughed with a puzzled tone and looked around at each other like "did he really just say what I think he did?"
It's funny how this whole deal IS NOT about product anymore.It is all about the system. My former upline told me if you're not reading and listening and going to functions your not serious about the business. It is more about filling auditoriums than the actual product line now. Which is over-priced and of no better quality than most other items out there.
Xanadustc,
Are you honestly buying and listening to tapes/cd's from various lines of sponsorship, when you have quit the business, to just post about them? Is this wise use of your time and income? I am honestly curious. I can't understand why you are not pursuing or researching an endeavor that you are positive in. I am sure there are people who you could use your positive influence and help in your community.
If I may be so bold:
As to the buying and listening to tapes/CDs vs. a wise use of time and income...
...we've been asking system IBOs that same question for quite some time.
Perhaps Xan is just doing it for personal growth...just like lots of system IBOs. Some go as far as saying that they would listen to tapes/CDs and read the books even if they weren't in the business. Seems to be true!
Think of Xan as an investigative reporter, sifting through documents, tapes, and files for the truth. I'm sure he is sorry to have to burst the quixotic bubble for you few, you precious few, but the truth isn't always pretty.
You bet it's about the system. I remember when our upline diamond decided to leave Pronet. As a ruby we were privy to the information for about 6 months before it happened. One week we received Pronet tapes, the next week, Team in Focus. Then the bombshell dropped. We weren't supposed to use the Pronet tapes for prospects/new IBOs.
Wonder why they founders of TIF, didn't just say. Hey, we are going to change tools suppliers, why don't you just listen to your old tapes for the next couple of months, and then we will get out some new ones. Maybe because they were in the system business...
Xan, have you ever counted how many times a tape tells you to listen to tapes?
"OP: So why am I going through all this? Because, our system… is the answer to most of the questions that you have.
Why won’t someone make a big names list? Probably because they are not doing those three things.
So if you are listening for the first time, or you are hearing this on tape, stop what you’re doing right now, call the person that got you started, or let the person that brought you here, and ask to be on the system. You need to be on tape of the week and book of the month. That is absolutely vital. Everything else doesn’t matter until you are on that. At some point you have to be a part of that. That is what is going to set you free in this, because you need to grow and change as you grow along...."
I think I can answer that question..not what Quixtar would say about it, but what he is trying to say...
The answer is in one of the books that WWDB recommends, "How To Win Friends And Influence People" by Dale Carnegie (which also happens to be a book that Bill Gates assigns all of Micosofts' Executives to read). The answer is: You will make more friends in 2 months by being interested in other people, than you will in 2 years trying to get other people to be interested in you."
What does this mean? It means that people, by nature, are selfish creatures. He provides many examples of proof of that fact in his book. Here are a few #1. When you first look at a group photograph with you in the picture..who do you look for first? Yourself. #2. The New York Telephone Company made a detailed study of telephone conversations to find out which word is most frequently used. The word most frequently used is "I". Almost all people by nature, are selfish.
That creates a problem for most IBO's because, this is not a business for selfish people. In order to succeed in this business, you have to teach OTHER people succeed first. You have to make THEIR success your main focus and KNOW that your success will come from helping them. And part of helping those other people to succeed, is teaching THEM how to teach others to succeed (AKA-teach them to go AGAINST their selfish nature) The "job" world, that most of us come from from, is always about "me, me, me"..."when am 'I' going to get a raise?", " 'I' can get better benefits at XYZ company than I can here.", and "They want 'me' to work harder?"...And it is just as well that we DO have that attitude at our jobs...its no secret that we do most of the work, yet get the least amount of pay. And since at our jobs our income is completely tied to only what we can do in the 8+ hours we are there, we can never break out of our income bracket..unless the Boss lets us. That kind of enviorment BREEDS selfishness, unless you are a total doormat who believes what your getting paid is really all your worth!
So every IBO starts their business w/2 challenges they have probably never faced before..#1. Learning to take their eyes off of themselves and put them on others, and #2. Convincing others to do the same. That is a BIG job!
Because this is a business that requires the IBO to think differently then they have grown accustomed to at their job..the "System" in question (and I can only speak for WWDB) is designed to recommend books and speakers that show you how to CHANGE your thinking so you CAN succeed in this business..because to be honest, if you bring your "me, me, me" attitude to a Plan..the person is going to see RIGHT THROUGH your selfishness and your phoniness. And if you can't let your selfishness go..how are you supposed to convince others to?
Dale Carnegie proves in his book that the most efficient way to get people to do what you want them to do, is to show them that you are giving them something that they want/need. This is why a salesman should never brag that he can sell ice to an Eskimo (That would be a selfish act...all about "him") what he should be proud of, is that he found people who needed ice and provided it for them.
Thats what the person in question was saying. Start reading about, and listening to people who will teach you to succeed in this type of business model..like John Maxwell says "The most efficient road to personal and financial growth, is to surround yourself by people who are where you want to be".
Sure you can build this business on your own..but the way it is designed, unless you have the natural ability to recognize and overcome the selfish motivations that have been instilled in you since the beginning of your life..you WILL either fail, or struggle a LONG road to success. The books and CD's/Meetings are designed to help you get to your destination faster by teaching you to overcome those instincts. Now, whether or not the IBO listening to the CD's chooses to apply what he has learned will ultimately define whether he is successful or not.
There is another purpose to the CD's as well..and they are simular to your job. Do you have a boss at your job? Yes..we all do/did. What is your bosses job? To make sure you keep working. These CD's/Meetings serve as your "boss"..they help motivate you to keep working..keep you WANTING to work (your boss keeps you wanting to work..by threatening to take your job away if you don't) The CD's, on the other hand, make you want to work to complete the goals you set out to achieve. The level of their motivation depends totally on the IBO. After listening to a CD by Bill Hawkins, I want to (and have) put in a 12 hour day prospecting. It is only logical that that has a positive affect on my business growth. Greg Duncans CD's make me remember that no matter how much your making at a job (he was a Dr.) this business will provide more money and time that that job ever could. He also said something else.."Your worst day in this business will be better than your best day at any job" and I, as a recent full time business builder can attest that that is 100% true.
Mr.Halling, I applaud you. Much more eloquently written then I could. I will go and re-read Mr.Carnigie's works asap as well as Mr. Maxwells. The fruits of the system are evident in your post.
Thank-you for taking the time to write such a well-worded and intelligent rebutal.
Ahh, gee, thanks. (:
And it's "Mrs." Halling :D I'm chasing Tereasa Danzig...anybody seen her? I'm going to catch her one of these days...time is on my side...
Porkchopjim:
Your Post: "Perhaps Xan is just doing it for personal growth...just like lots of system IBOs. Some go as far as saying that they would listen to tapes/CDs and read the books even if they weren't in the business. Seems to be true!"
That actually is true in my group. I had an IBO give up. He was honest about why..he said he didn't have the guts to talk to strangers no matter how much money he could make doing it..I really appreciated his honesty..its rare in those who quit this business..especially on this board. But, in your defense...not as bad as I have seen on other boards.
Anyway, he decided just to stay on as a Prosumer. He also decided to stay on Standing Order Tape (I'm w/WWDB) because he said he liked listening to the IBO's stories, and that their positive thinking helped him get thru the hard times at his job (he's an engineer).
So yeah, its true..some IBO's will buy the tapes even if they aren't building the business anymore. (:
Thanks for giving me the opportunity to mention that.
Oh, and before I get ripped for selling the CD's to him at retail cost and making money off of him..I sell them to him for what I pay for them-$2.50 for a single-$5.00 for a double/John Maxwell.
"In order to succeed in this business, you have to teach OTHER people succeed first. You have to make THEIR success your main focus and KNOW that your success will come from helping them."
R.Halling: Any idea what they call a business opportunity that has the primary focus of recruiting?
Funny (not) how there was no mention of selling products in there anywhere...
Good thing your tapes/CDs train you so that your marks can't openly detect 'your selfishness and your phoniness.'
What's another name for a training system that 'changes someone's thinking'?
Directly after saying you spend 12 hours 'prospecting' - you say the business gives you more time vs. the old 8 hour job. New math.
Just because you sell downline CDs at your cost doesn't mean no one is being ripped off. Good luck.
Porkchopjim,
Your OP:
"In order to succeed in this business, you have to teach OTHER people succeed first. You have to make THEIR success your main focus and KNOW that your success will come from helping them."
R.Halling: Any idea what they call a business opportunity that has the primary focus of recruiting?
Funny (not) how there was no mention of selling products in there anywhere...
Good thing your tapes/CDs train you so that your marks can't openly detect 'your selfishness and your phoniness.'
What's another name for a training system that 'changes someone's thinking'?
Directly after saying you spend 12 hours 'prospecting' - you say the business gives you more time vs. the old 8 hour job. New math.
Just because you sell downline CDs at your cost doesn't mean no one is being ripped off. Good luck."
************************************
My husband works for a printing company. They make SAT tests for the State of California. His friend works for a different printing company across town. They make SAT tests for 2 other states. He $4 less an hour than my husband. Wow..same type of work, same hours....less pay..I would say his friend is getting RIPPED OFF!! So in response to your statement "Just because you sell downline CDs at your cost doesn't mean no one is being ripped off."...Well, I guess I just proved that people are getting ripped off everywhere in the world. That doesn't make the Printing industry a bad place to work. Or this business either! In short- I worry about what I do, and what my group is doing..not about what someone elses group is doing...just like my husband doesn't worry about what the other printing shops are doing.
The reason why there was no mention of selling products is because I don't SELL products. I refer business to the Quixtar website and THEY sell them the products. If I were "selling" an item, I would first have to purchase it at wholesale cost out of my own pocket, than find someone to sell it to, give it to them and charge them retail price. I don't do that. I do a product demo, and a price comparison, sign Clients/Prosumers/IBO's up under my IBO number, and THEY buy stuff from Quixtar and its Affiliate partners, and I get a percentage of the sale, and/or PV. I have a Client in Virginia that I have never even met! How can I be selling her stuff if I've never met her? I recommended Quixtar to her and sent her some samples so she could do a product comparison. Yes she is a Client in my business..but she is a REFERRAL Client. Not someone I "sell" stuff to.
And I don't look at prospecting as "recruiting". I'm spreading, via word of mouth the concept of becoming a Prosumer..that's all an IBO is, is a Prosumer who teaches others to be Prosumers as well. Quixtar doesn't pay me to "recruit" business. They pay me REFER business. I am a walking, talking advertising agency--That's it. Haven't you ever recommended a movie you saw to a friend? I'm sure you have. I know I've recommended lots of movies, restaurants and stores. And lots of people have recommended those things to me. That's how I knew this business would work! When you recommend a place to eat to someone, are you RECRUITING business for them? No, you are REFERRING business..only difference is, I've chosen to get paid for it and you don't. And even if this business was selling products..what is the shame in that? Don't you shop? Its a little hypocritical to condemn selling consumable products when your out there buying consumables every day..don't you think?? Geez!
Oh, and I know the answer to your question "What's another name for a training system that 'changes someone's thinking'?"---Its called Therapy. People go to shrinks to learn how to think differently. Nice try though. We don't have a cult mentality in our group..heck-most of my IBO's are immigrants from India and Asia..not a whole lot of Bible banging Christians over there. I don't think I could start a cult if I wanted to! But if you consider changing your thinking so that you keep other peoples success your focus..than I guess I am in a cult. Wow. I sure sleep better than when I worked in a corporate office full of back stabbing, stealing sales reps...no office politics here! I do know what you are refering to though. My sister in law dated a guy who started this business. His upline was in some "Brotherhood of Jesus" group and he grew to agree w/the traditional teaching of Christianity. This of course sent her into a rage because she is a Liberal. Does being a Christian make him in a cult? No. It means he found God..how he found it is irrelevant. My brother found God sitting in a jail cell when he was 18 yrs old. He's still a Christian, but hasn't been back to jail since..so, I guess its not a cult after all...
And if you really believe I am in this business JUST to make money, you couldn't be more wrong. I looked at A LOT of different home business before I picked this one. They ALL made money. I picked it because it was the only business I saw that made money by helping other people make money-not selling them stuff. As odd of a concept as that is for brainwashed America to accept-I knew it was the right direction to go. I wanted a business that made me feel good about the way I earned a living. I've never had that feeling in a job. Plus, it makes more sense to make money the way Britney Spears makes money than the way a salesman makes money. I don't have to "be there" to get paid when someone buys a product I promoted..a salesman does.
When people speak they are projecting who they are to others. That means if you think I'm here just to make money off of people, that tells me that that's probably what you were doing in your business..and what did I say about people in this business w/that mentality? They will FAIL, or struggle the long road to success. You should have applied what Dale Carnige told you..you probably wouldn't be sitting in front of your computer w/that angry bewildered look on your face wondering "What went wrong?"
Does your husband's friend 'pay' to work at the printing place? If not - your example doesn't relate to buying CDs to help your business.
So, you make your money by NOT selling things. Got it. As you say "Its a little hypocritical to condemn selling consumable products when your out there buying consumables every day..don't you think??" Well, you just said you DON'T sell products...so you can't be talking about me. Or, is this a Zen 'sell without selling' concept.
Many of the pernicious cults I know of are not Christian based. Are your CDs produced by 'shrinks'? Therapists? Well, they're not 'therapy' then. Might be that other thing, though.
Of course you don't call what you do 'recruiting' - that's a dirty word. Quixtar pays you to make 'prosumers', which you get by 'prospecting'. OK. And, of course, those 'prosumer' IBOs (that's all they are - your words - they don't sell anything, just buy from themselves and get a referral bonus back) are part of your 'downline'. That's not just 'referring' now is it?
It makes you feel good to make money off of people by telling them you are 'helping' them? Be a 'prosumer' so I can get a cut, but don't worry about that - you just get more 'prosumers' under you and you'll never notice the bit I'm getting.
I'm glad it's not just about the money...
Hey Mrs Halling! Some nice posts :-) Don't waste too much time on PorkChopJim (aka Tattoo ... he lives on Fantasy Island). PCJ has demonstrated again and again he actually has no clue how this business or indeed other businesses actually works, but likes to keep repeating his same old talking points while ignoring actual reality. Don't try to argue with a delusion person, you can't win.
insider why don't you keep your word and not return here?
what does it matter to you joecool what insider does?
I rise to defend Porkchopjim. Not only are his posts well-written and cogent, they are indeed well-grounded in reality. If he's "a delusion person," (your words, not mine) I'm seeing the overall picture of the Quixbiz with the same eyes. Here is what I see: Buy from yourself and sucker friends, family, mere acquaintances, and complete strangers to do the same! No one likes to be a pressured-to-buy consumer, whether it's in a home party setting (translate to: captive audience that feels obligated to buy the cheapest, yet still overpriced, item in the catalog), a used car lot with pushy salespeople, or your own kitchen with some dim bulb who invited himself over trying to rope you into a internet MLM that has the backing of MAJOR retailers (I was told Disney, Microsoft, et al). I didn't buy it then, and I won't now. Why you would choose to be in this "business" mystifies me, and, apparently, Porkchopjim.
Well, no wonder I have no clue how the business 'works.' Everyone describes it a different way - so how can I be wrong?
R.Halling's plan is the 'prosumer' one - where you don't sell anything!
Unless, Insider, you're going to explain to me how HER business REALLY works? You're the only one who runs the business 'your' way. A bit presumptuous to answer on behalf of everyone else.
Mrs.Halling,
I apologize for that. Great posts. Have a great weekend and you will definitely catch Theresa, my wife likes her very much , with that mindset..
God bless
brad> what does it matter to you joecool what insider does?
Joe> brad are you now a "lurker"?
insider said he's done with the critics. Since he got his butt handed to him and then started insulting people like an ambot, we may as well ask that he keep his word to stay away.
JC, since your so obsessed with my postings, you would have noticed where I said I changed my mind. Or is that not allowed? Or just another case of you ignoring stuff that doesn't fit your reality ....
truebeliever - I don't run my business anything like you just describe, and I don't personally know anyone who does. Now, before anyone starts screaming as they normally do when I say things like that - nowhere did I just say it doesn't happen. Quite probably it does. Certainly seems like it based on comments like truebelievers.
But if i don't do it that way, and nobody I know does it that way, then that's not "the business" per se is it? It's just how individual people choose to run it. If you want to run a photography store and do nothing but take photos of naked children - you're the one with the problem, not the photography profession.
insider> JC, since your so obsessed with my postings, you would have noticed where I said I changed my mind. Or is that not allowed? Or just another case of you ignoring stuff that doesn't fit your reality ....
Joe> Haha, how about you getting slammed with reality then ignoring the thread after you get your butt handed to you. Either that or you started to throw insults like a typical ambot.
Did you take lessons from "Tony"?
I'm sorry, insider, but the way the business is set up demands that IBOs prospect other people--and where do they usually start? Friends and family. I've seen this with Amway, but don't forget Mary Kay, Partylite, Avon, and so on. (Some of these companies are better than others, so there's that.) This prospecting nearly always results in an uncomfortable social situation for the person being approached. It reminds me of someone coming up and saying, "I've got six stray kittens--you'll love them!" and shoving a box at you.
How do you say no to a dear friend, especially when he or she is so gung ho on their new biz? This is what happened with my friend. She was in the system up to her eyeballs, extremely positive and very motivated. I politely turned her down when she showed me the Quixtar plan, because I saw it as a glorified buyers' club. I was on the verge of starting my own business, and chose to put my energy into that. She tried to get me to go to an event. I politely turned her down on that, especially when I got a look at the people she was going with--they were all dressed like they were going to church, and they had a creepy revivalist vibe that set my inner radar screaming. I listened politely when she trumpeted these meetings as so "spiritual" and uplifting. The weeks went by, and the money wasn't coming in for her, but those books and tapes and giant-size products were sure accumulating in her house. She gave me one of the books to read. I'm a part-time writer and editor---I found it trite and substanceless. She gave me a tape to listen to--I think it was Chris Brady--his voice was so shrill and preachy, I couldn't even listen to it. I finally sat her down and asked how much money she was making. About $32 a month. How much was she spending? Way more than that. Right before she wised up and got out, she was told she should stick around so she could cash in on the tool money, eventually. Sad, isn't it?
And here's the saddest part--in the area where I live, all the families who are quixstarred out are hardly considered serious business owners, quite the opposite. That is what really bugs me--that good people are being victimized and losing money to this "business." And that's why I jump on here and try to crack open some minds and shine a little light in. And bonus, you don't have to pay for a book or a tape! The truth is free!
"the truth is free." that's pretty difficult, if not impossible to argue with right there, good stuff. so it's been about 18 months since i've listen to a couple cd's a day or read any books so it's very refreshing to follow some of pro-quixtar threads on this wonderful site and only be able to comprehend blah blah, blah blah. and i don't say that to offend, but simply to suggest; should making money be this complicated? i mean, if this is such an unselfish business model why do we have to figure out and use any means neccessary to speed people along "the path to their own success." and what does that even mean? shouldn't it be said; help people struggle down their path to OUR success? at least that would be honest. when we get involved in something like this, all the sudden we're sooo concerned about everyone elses "success" right? why is that? BECAUSE NOW ALL THE SUDDEN THERE'S A PROFIT IN IT FOR US! gee whiz wally =)to me that sounds like the posterchild and foundation for selfishness any way you chop it up. but being concerned about other's "success" just sounds so warm and fuzzy and unselfish it's semi-justifiable. hey, like they say on the tapes about absolutely all other forms of generating an income, if it's so great, do it for free, ya know?
Insider,
Thanks for the support. I'm not trying to change the way PCJ thinks. He's a lost Liberal (I can tell because he name calls and has problems w/ppl making money..even though he has a job where he makes money which makes him a hypocrite). I'm only here to rebutte the posts from the "fanatics" in this blog, in hopes of showing potential prospects who may check this site out, the reality of our business.
This site is utterly confusing though, because 99% of the people aren't making comments about our business. Their making comments about WWDB,BWW and however many other organizations out there. Why don't they start an Anti-"Fill in the blank" Organization site? Why are they putting down those organizations of a site that is completly seperate from it? I don't want people to judge my business by what someone from Bill Britts team did. They have nothing to do w/me!
I understand from your posts that you are building your business w/out any help from the outside organizations. PM me sometime. I would like to hear how that is going for you.
Ms. Halling commented: "This site is utterly confusing though, because 99% of the people aren't making comments about our business. Their making comments about WWDB,BWW and however many other organizations out there. Why don't they start an Anti-"Fill in the blank" Organization site? Why are they putting down those organizations of a site that is completly seperate from it?"
I'M CONFUSED NOW, I thought you yourself were affiliated with Alticor--who begat Amway, who begat Quixtar, which is the name of this blog. WWDB and BWW are essentially Quixtar, aren't they? TOD--same thing. If I'm wrong, please enlighten me. I don't like not having my facts straight.
Maybe I confused you when I brought up troubling aspects of MLM's in general that I feel are amplified within the entity known as Quixtar, or one of its many amorphous acronyms.
I wanted to say thank you to nimblix for restoring my faith in human nature. You've expressed the truth you could never get in an Alticor-sanctioned book or CD with that summing up of the Quixbiz: "Help people struggle down their path to OUR success."
No WWDB, etc is not Quixtar. The leaders of those organizations are made up of people who have succeeded in the original Amway business. They started their own organizations (Ron Puryer started WWDB/Bill Brit started BWW, etc) with the purpose of teaching people how to succeed faster than they did by avoiding the mistakes that they made..because when the first IBO went "Diamond" there were no tapes or CD's, except maybe the ones the owners of Amway may have made. Quixtar is in NO way affiliated w/these organizations. WWDB doesn't share any of its profits with Quixtar. The only time they ever speak is for legal purposes (If WWDB has to put Quixtars name or affiliates names on a product of theirs, such as the my.biz website). It even says at the end of each CD that Quixtar is not affiliated w/WWDB.
Then why do all of the WWDB websites (including puryear.wwdb.biz, with Mr. and Mrs. Puryear featured on the start page)seem to have prominent links to Alticor and Quixtar? How is that "in NO way affiliated"?
I don't have time to catch up on all the comments as I have been away for the week, but the answer to some questions a few people had regarding the origin to these tapes, red my previous post and you will find that a site reader sent them to me for my opinion on the similarities and differences between them.
For other persons in this debate: the system is not vital and you are breaking the rules of Quixtar if you are teaching that it is...plain and simple!
xanadustc - can you direct me to any example of anyone in any industry who has built a small business that generates profit longterm with limited input who didn't have a business system?
All successful businesses use systems. I'd call that vital, whether Quixtar says I can say it or not.
Yeah. We've got a small business that generates a profit and we don't use a "system." Neither we nor our employees don't waste money on "motivational tools;" they're motivated by their wages and bonues. Likewise, we are motivated by the profit that the business makes and the desire to increase profit.
Insider,
What you you mean by a system?
I reviewed my posts - and I apologize to anyone taking offense to being called a 'prosumer.' That's the only name I could find.
Otherwise - Insider:
'...that's the way some people choose to build their business..'
That implies that IBOs - especially new ones, have a choice. Such as multiple LOSs to choose from. The only choice they have is 'system' or 'no-system.' If 'system' is the 'prosumer' one - then that's it. Counsel from upline (system, I would hope!) to non-system IBOs will be...system? Multiple choice? 'To succeed or not?'
Not much of a choice at all.
Keep defending it, though!
DI - you have no business system, no instructions for employees about what they should do and when and how in different scenarios?
How much did it cost to start your business?
How long did it take to reach revenue neutral?
How long did it take to have paid back all startup and running costs?
If you got sick tomorrow and could never have any input in to your business again, how long would it remain profitable?
Tattoo: Of course they have a choice. Quixtar lists quite a few of the existing PDPs, including contact details. Brad and I have both given examples of people who have swapped systems. We read on quixtarwiki lots of cases of entire groups of IBOs switching systems and starting their own systems - follow the whole Winters saga for a start. Just because you keep claiming it's not true doesn't mean it isn't.
you have no business system, no instructions for employees about what they should do and when and how in different scenarios?
Perhaps you should define system first.
I've told our emplyees what to do in different scenarios (duh).
What we don't have is rah-rah motivation that has absolutely nothing to do with business. Which is what the "system" discussed on these boards is mostly composed of.
How much did it cost to start your business?
How long did it take to reach revenue neutral?
How long did it take to have paid back all startup and running costs?
If you got sick tomorrow and could never have any input in to your business again, how long would it remain profitable?
Tell you what, buddy, when you start responding to others' questions about your mystery business, I might answer yours.
Insider,
The examples you and Brad gave are all IBOs who had been in the 'system' for a period of time...and had (somehow) some means of at least determining that their current LOS - excuse me, Professional Development Programs - were not optimal.
Half answer and half truth, as usual.
Interesting ability to compare, though...all 'contact information' leads to websites that you have to be registered on...and be an IBO. Which means you already are in the 'biz' and are not given the opportunity to compare.
As one often to declare "I don't know about other LOS's - I just know I've never seen any of the things people gripe about in my experience" it seems more than slightly disingenuous to then claim that IBOs have a choice when signing up...when you, as the staunchest knee-jerk reactionary to criticism, plead ignorance to whatever else goes on in the biz.
As usual. At least my fantasy has been consistent...and I'm never disappointed!
"No WWDB, etc is not Quixtar. The leaders of those organizations are made up of people who have succeeded in the original Amway business. They started their own organizations (Ron Puryer started WWDB/Bill Brit started BWW, etc) with the purpose of teaching people how to succeed faster than they did by avoiding the mistakes that they made.... It even says at the end of each CD that Quixtar is not affiliated w/WWDB."
While I realize that tool and funtion money is not sifted through Quixtar's fingers, I am curious as to how many people who attend the functions or purchase the tapes/CDs are not members or IBOs?
WWDB is not quixtar. Right so why do we need them to build a quixtar business?
No one really needs WWDB---it's the other way around. WWDB needs the IBO's to devour the non-stop, insubstantial bits of "motivation" they dole out.
And I think they should change the title from Independent Business Owner to Dependent Business Dupe.
"can you direct me to any example of anyone in any industry who has built a small business that generates profit longterm with limited input who didn't have a business system?"
What other business makes you "grow as a person" when asked how sucessful you are.
True personal sucess is not dependent on money but "business sucess" is based on profits. Can we say ENRON?
I find it very interesting even as an open-minded individual that when asked the question about how much money they make they cringe in fear and either disappear, ignore the question completely, or get all defensive with "Why are you always attacking me"
Anyone other "neutral" here notice this trend?
Wow. I do not like to argue because if you argue, your point will never get across. I'm feeling a need for some people skills that most Successful people in any area of life usually have people skills. If you try to pick at someone else's view and slam it in their face it usually doesn't work. You may have proven a point, but they are still of the same persuation.
Why is quixtar the largest multi-level marketing business if it supposeably doesn't work? If it doesnt work why do people get in. I'm not trying to slam you and I'm not calling you dream stealers or naughty names. I feel you need to have an open mind. Honestly you can not get a feel for our organization without truely getting to know the people. From what I'm seeing is people of integrety and honesty. I am part of a fun loving, money making organization that has seen people go from 0-7500 in 7 months. Now properly structured you can make some significant income. I know a guy personally who is 24 and just graduated college with a Business degree and didn't have a job while in school and stepped out of school without one too. He paid cash for his tuition to a state school and I have seen his cash personally from his Quixtar income. I have seen his checks and I know it works. Yet I've seen him from when he didn't make so much. Financially free by the age of 24 is pretty good. Now. I have also seen his downline have success, I have seen my mentor's mentor go from a couple hundred a month to a couple thousand a month. I have seen My upline Diamond go from Emerald to Diamond in 2 years. I have seen their home. I have been watching close and been very skepical at first. But with all the success why not dive in head first? Especially when my sponsor was someone I knew before the business and she wouldn't do anything to hurt me? Also. Why is it a sin to make money from those who also make money? Also What is your job like? Does the owner of the company make money off of you? God forbid that to happen.
I Thank God everyday that I decided to get started. My personal developement in people skills have improved and my relationships have improved. I used to be a mouse of a woman now I'm a woman of strength. And its hard at first, but every great endever is. I'm asking you from a Christian and Success principal side. Please keep your eyes open and don't rule out the possiblity that some people love our business. Quixtar gives so much back to the community and the IBOs themselves are (for the most part) people of integrety and accountibity. Think how much Quixtar gave to Tsunami Victoms and September 11th tragity. Then on top of that how much the actual IBOs gave. You ought to look that up. Yes ONE rotton apple can ruin the whole basket as well as a couple. Some people succeed some don't that is mostly thier own doing. We can try to help them along the way. But we will not waste our time with someone who doesn't want help. The upline is like a friend that has been through the mine field before. They know what works and what doesn't EVERY starts at 0. No one steps into a business with people already lined up. NO ONE has the mentality of a Diamond when they get started. No one. Myself included. I'll admit to some faults, and every business does. I do not like argueing and IBOs stay away from here because it's like fighting with a stone post with your bare hands (you like the midwestern farmer humor?) YOu can't beat a limestone rock with your fist and expect it to win. As my mom always said "Your like argueing with a stonepost" I don't know where these so called "FACTS" come into play other than the opions of people who have failed in their own network. I apoligize for your failure, but that doesn't mean everyone fails. I real winner would have stuck it out. Did you read success principal books? Maybe your additude needed to change. I do not want to bash you cause I see a greatness inside of you that can be drawn out. We are in a business of building people up, not tearing people down. I'm sorry that your ego is so big you have to downplay what is truely a awesome business. The way I see it, if there is so much negitive online and what not, why still does Quixtar thrive? Why do people grab ahold of this thing and it changes their lives? Why do people even if they quit..like my friend, she decided to go into missions? Why are people drawn to us? Maybe because there is a much greater power at work than pv and bv and uplines and tools. Maybe there is a greater picture that you will see maybe in time. I'm not sold out to my upline, I'm not sold out to my business, I'm sold out to my heavenly Father. Which I have fasted and prayed and I truely believe this business is Ok. What is wrong with lifting people up? What is wrong with helping people? What is wrong with getting rich and giving the money away? Nothing. Forget the pv, and bv. Lay waste the money (which by the way is pretty good) :) And look deeper into yourselves. I truely believe you are searching to fill an emptiness inside yourself that a business, nor money, nor ego can fill. Stop bashing and look at the real people behind this business.
If our business was bogus, Why are 60% of the fortune 500 companies involved with us? I'm pretty sure they do some deep research to see if our business is legimate. Consider the real facts This is not a moment, this is a movement. And we are setting the people free in thier finances, their mind, and their spiritual lives. I would truely like to meet you and see what kind of greatness I can draw out of you.
Posted
Emily, that last q-blog bumper sticker was supposed to be a joke.
How long have you been in?
Do you retail?
What is your gross profit, and system expenses?
How many hours per week do you spend in your 'business'?
Do you 'charge yourself retail' and count it as profit?
The 'enter' key is locate on the right side of your keyboard, right above the shift key. When/if you respond to these questions, please, make use of it. Please.
Why is there an inversely proportional relationship between the amount of tapespeak a poster uses and his/her ability to punctuate a long post? I am serious. There is something to this.
You crack me up. Why is your heart so hardened? Like I said who cares about retail and those questions you asked
"How long have you been in? Do you retail? What is your gross profit, and system expenses? How many hours per week do you spend in your 'business'?
Do you 'charge yourself retail' and count it as profit?"
I scoff at your silly remarks. Those things are minor details that seriously do not matter. (I'd probably prove you wrong anyway..but that is not my pupose.) My business is my business.
I've learned all what I have said and my so called "tapespeak" from my God-fearing parents who have never heard of Quixtar before I got started. My morals and ethics are grounded by people skill books and Success principal books that have nothing to do with the quixtar business nor the team. Not to mention the Holy Bible.
Isn't it funny that those success principals are found within this business model as well as many multi level marketing or your so called retailing or pyramid, what ever your interpretation is.
I do not like picking fights cause sucess principals say not to. To which you are indeed lacking that concept. Of course there is tapespeak. But that's not just quixtar that is ANY success principal book. Are you slamming Nepolian Hill, or Robert Keosaki (sorry for the spelling--the guy who wrote "Rich Dad Poor Dad")Or Shad Hamsteder? (What to Say When You Talk to Yourself") These are a few New York Times best sellers...Do you want to pick a fight with them? I'm sure they will match you big time.
Oh, wait...you probably never heard of these people...Oh, I see.
I'll agree if you hear something or or read something you will eventally start to believe it. Kinda like our society and many aspects and movies I am not going to get into. I'm sure you believe a lot of stuff in the Tabloids judging from your points of view on many subjects.
Stop bashing and start listening I'm sure you will get a lot further than ever before. I apoligize for being harsh with you. Linda- you go girl and keep up the good work.
I will not answer any more I just wanted to make an appearance. Thanks to all the IBOs who will stand strong and don't sell out to their upline or their business solely, but take a look through fasting and prayer and check out the real facts not blogs like this. Sell out to your God and I'm sure God will not let you stray.
Thank you quixtar bashers for the opportunity to post this, and I thank my Heavenly Father for allowing me to be apart of this opportunity.
God speed.
Emily
Emily,
No one is saying tha quixtar IBOs are bad people. I have said it in other threads that I would say quixtar IBOs are nice, hardworking and motivated people. The problem is that they often believe what upline tells them without question. As an example, the glorious quixtar leaders once "lied" and told their downline that NOBODY makes money off the tools. Well, now that the internet exposed the lies, they now talk about tools money, but not a single IBO has any written document that proves that they will receive tools money when they reach a certain level.
Why do quixtar diamonds promote the business as a "marriage" saver when some of them get divorced (Danzik, Kosage, Miller, et al). Why did Danzik lie about building the business as a single.
Why do so many IBOs admit they don't profit yet tell everyone they have great new friends or received personal improvement. Were you recruited this way or were you told you could achieve "residual" income and retire early?
Over the years, far more people have come out with a loss than a profit, and more specifically, loss due to the cost of the teaching system. Doesn't anyone see that a system when the vast majority loses is not an effective one?
Joecool
Why don't you ask Danzik, Kosage, Miller, those questions? Are those the only examples you can come up with? I can come up with more diamonds that is has saved their marriage they didn't claim it saves everyone's marriage. It did theirs. There are more examples of those who it has effected in a positive way rather than a negitive.
And no I was not "recruited" so you say, with the benifits of the system such as self improvement ect. It's just an intagible of the business. Some people see it as a social club. That's their problem. they could succeed if they truely wanted to. I was "recruited" with the hope of recieving long term residual income.
If they truely followed the system with heart and not just because of "tapespeak" or what their upline told them to do. But rather their heart and examine the facts to make sure it's legitmate and get Sold out and Work the business, and success principals. Have the sence to follow someone who has been in the mine field, but don't follow to closely or else you get could get blown up as well. Filter it through a brain cell, and learn from those of experience. Learn from other's ignorant experiences (which by the way is found in a success principal book)
Those who have failed..I apoligize and I feel sorry that you didn't stick it out and do what the recipe of success tells. I'm sure you were missing at least one of the core principals, and that is very unfourtunate. Just because you failed or some fail, More like some CHOSE to fail. Success can be found in everyone. The business is no respector of persons, everyone starts at 0.
You are the factor. You can't blame anyone else. Take control of your own failures (which by the way is in a book as well)
Remember this. You cannot teach a man anything, you can olny help him to find it within himself" Which by the way is not tapetalk or what ever you call it; it is found in a Success principal book as well.
Why it works for some and not others? The deciding factor is you. Not the system, not the company not your upline. YOU. Stop blaming your shortcomings on others. Face the fact that you could have done better and It's not someone elses fault.
It has worked for others, obviously it works. Have some disipline and be core and Get 'er done.
Maybe you were lacking some success principal books...Maybe you were lacking excitement, maybe you were lacking a greater power that is not of this world. I don't know I will not point out the shortcomings of others. I can't judge. God will be the judge.
Sorry if I damaged your ego. I truly apoligize. Get off of it and understand that this business is going to thrive with or without you. If you are going to be proven wrong later, why draw it out now? Stop bringing false accusations upon very good moral people stop being negitive and cynical. Start living and see life for what it is. If you keep pointing out the negitive in every situation you will never see the positives in life....I feel sorry for the one who only sees negitive.
Get your life right and quit bashing our system that goes by the ethics of success principal books. Do you think they make this stuff up...I'm sure those diamonds have read some books. I'm sure most of the stuff comes out of the mouth of Nepoleon Hill and etc. Ask these authors (if they are around) to see if what Q* is teaching abides by the success principals found on those "tapespeak" tapes you are talking about. I'll gladly use principals found on those tapes if they are found in a success principal books. For what it's worth
Emily
Emily: Thank you for attempting to use paragraph breaks. It did make reading a little easier.
Sadly, you didn't post much worth reading.
Emily writes: "You crack me up. Why is your heart so hardened? Like I said who cares about retail and those questions you asked
"How long have you been in? Do you retail? What is your gross profit, and system expenses? How many hours per week do you spend in your 'business'?
Do you 'charge yourself retail' and count it as profit?"
I scoff at your silly remarks. Those things are minor details that seriously do not matter."
CK replies: So...you're in 'business', but profit and loss are minor details that do not matter? That's....fascinating, and probably speaks for itself. At least, it does to those who have true business-owner mentality. Oh, and those weren't 'remarks', they were questions. You do know the difference? Apparently not, since you next write...
"(I'd probably prove you wrong anyway..but that is not my pupose.)"
CK replies: Prove me wrong...how? What did I assert that you are anxious to disprove? I asked you QUESTIONS. Which you very messily avoided.
Of course I've heard of Kiosoki, Napolean, and even Shad. I read RDPD cover to cover. It was a piece of feel-good crap. YOU need to read "The Millionaire Next Door". And maybe learns some basic accounting so you can understand the importance of PROFIT in BUSINESS. If in fact that is what you are in.
Emily writes: "I'm sure you believe a lot of stuff in the Tabloids judging from your points of view on many subjects."
CK replies: I've never read a tabloid, I wouldn't know. You apparently have some knowledge of them and could enlighten us. And to which 'points of view' on which of these 'many subjects' do you refer?
Are you not allowed or simply unable to answer questions? The very simple, honest answers to the very simple questions I posed in my first reply to you speak many more volumes (and much more succinctly, I'm afraid) than all your tapespeak combined, IF in fact this is a business.
If it's a social/church/support/motivation/self-improvement group, well, carry on. But please, don't ask me to subsidze it by writing it off on your taxes as a net operating loss.
Thank you.
Oh boy, I must be getting me some of them there success principal books, they seem to work wonders.
Emily,
Do you actually read before you post?
I said IBOs generally are good people who work hard, etc. However, their view of the business may be skewed.
How do you know any of the critics have failed in the business or are broke or whatever? Most of us here have a lot of experience and know the business better than you, not to mention successful jobs or businesses outside of quixtar.
Just for clarifaction I never said you were broke. Sorry if I implied that.
And second, IBOs are all levels, 100, 300, 7500 Emerald Diamond etc. So Emeralds and Diamonds talk on tape/cd and they are good people ("I said IBOs generally are good people who work hard, etc. However, their view of the business may be skewed")
Well, Emeralds and Diamonds speak on tape/cd, most are good people, what's wrong with listening to them, and don't you think they know a little more than the average IBO?
They know what it takes to get to the level they've achieved, why not apply what they've done?
Emily
Because Emily,
The road to "hell" is paved with good intentions.
These IBOs you refer to are probably good people, but promote quixtar as a way to succeed when 99% of them fail
(for whatever reason) and they do not disclose that a significant portion
of their income is from the tools and not from quixtar.
From my time with the TOD, it was all about the system. The system, the system, the system! I got sick of it real fast. Everyone from stage spent at least 1/2 of their time promoting the system and how great it was. My upline would constantly tell me how great the system was and pressure me to get on it. They would say no one makes it to the higher level pins without being on the system. They would make jokes about the system being "optional". What a bunch of clowns.
Posted by: X-TEAMster | July 6, 2006 1:06 PM