« What's the deal with spouses? | Main | In Their Own Words - 9 »
July 3, 2006
BWW vs. TEAM
By Xanadustc in A/QMOs
One of my site readers sent me a box of tapes from Team of Destiny dated around 2003. I wanted to contrast the teachings of these tapes to BWW. As I write this, please keep in mind that the ONLY frame of reference that I have for TEAM is these tapes. I do not have any written literature, nor did I attend an open meeting.
What follows is a comparison to the TEAM list building method according to the tape “The Names List” (PPS82) by Chris Smith compared to the BWW basics Manual and the GS1 “What to do Next” that I analyzed on Quixtar Inside Out Radio.
TEAM method:
“Business will always work if you work it.”
2 processes:
- Better yourself (system participation)
- Action steps: 5 step pattern to build the business. The first is the name list which is the topic of this tape.
The first thing to do is get on the system: tape of the week, book of the month.
To build a list:
- Write it down.
- Always carry the list since you never know when you will want to make calls.
- Do not prejudge anybody; put ALL names down.
- Write down everyone you know, even if you do not know their first name.
- Always talk to more people to add to the list.
- Look at your list daily; put people on the to-do list if you want to call them that day.
The tape used a series of motivators about how much debt people in America have to justify talking to everyone. People are the ‘inventory’ of the business.
There are no “No’s” they are “Laters;" they will be back later.
You don’t prospect, you use the materials from the books and tapes, talk to people, ask questions, etc. (and how is this not prospecting?)
Chris was in college and did not learn anything, it was TEAM that helped him get successful.
TEAM has a brochure that helps with remembering names by a listing of names as well as by occupation.
BWW Method:
You must constantly add new businesses to make more money. Take quality time to develop a list of names.
Charlie Durso
Once again, people are the ‘inventory’ of your business. Durso tells us to put the list on paper. There are three types of people:
A list – Friend and family
B List – Acquaintances
C List – Everyone else
Put these names on a carbon copy paper and give a copy to your upline. Charlie talks about prospecting as a means to add people to the C list. Never prejudge people.
Kumar
Kumar tells us that if you do not add a person to your list, someone else will, so you had better add them now.
The BWW system is key to develop business outside your local area, but in this case, Kumar is talking about the Open Meeting system (where you can send a prospect), and not being involved on the system.
BWW Basics Manual
Share the business at people that are your ambition level and above. The manual includes a list of business clients as well as IBOs.
The manual gives us the F-O-R-M resource as a means to meet new people and talk to them about the business.
Use the brochures to help remember names of people.
Conclusions
Both teams are generally teaching the same things, but with a few differences. BWW is honest that they are prospecting for the business and they also do not include the necessity of being on the Standing Order programs to make a list of names. On this short clip, we do not see anything about making your prospects emotionally stirred about not having enough money; it is simply a filtering question. They also list several other resources. Other than those differences, they teach the same general principles for good or bad. Why do they each claim to be the best?
Comments
Ok, so we have 2 different companies teaching how to develop sales volume, and ... shock horror!!! ... they teach basic sales 101 - make a list of prospects.
Have you had any experience at all in sales at all XanD? Read "How I raised myself from failure to success in selling" by Frank Bettger. It's an old classic that has stood the test of time.
Deb - I've never claimed Network 21 is the best. I have no idea who is "the best", I only have personal experience of one. I don't even now how you would define it.
I suspect which group or even LoS is "the best" is different for different people.
Insider,
Been there, read that, and over 100 other worthless books on the same theme.
Do I have experience in sales? YES from a few different perspectives. My point, Insider, was to demonstrate that they are indeed similar, so why run around saying they are the best? BWW, WWDB, Network 21, TEAM, and every other PDP make that claim...further, every single MLM I analiyzed claims to be the best. When will it end?
Amazon.com, 57 customer reviews ... 56 give it 5 stars, one gives it 4 stars.
Xanadustc review - "worthless"
Says it all really.
Your point was to prove they were similar. Xanadustc drinks water. Horses drink water. Xanadustc is similar to a horse. Whoopee doodah.
Of course they're similar, they're teaching people about the same business, there is always going to be more similarities than differences.
Incidentally, I don't recall ever hearing anyone claim N21 is "the best". I've heard "largest training organisation of its type" and things like that, but "the best" is so highly subjective everyone could make that claim about whatever they work with and be correct - maybe it is "the best" for them.
Insider's comments - "trash"
Insider's constant whining - "pathetic"
Insider telling us he is leaving and then coming back - "getting old"
Insider's attacks after getting royally spanked with his own logic - "pitiful"
Such inciteful thoughtful commentary Drew. Keep it up.
Certainly better then the comments you have been leaving lately. It usually goes something like this with you:
You leave some comment with quite a bit of BS in it.
You get called on it and spanked with your own poor logic.
Then you get defensive and nasty with your comments and say you are leaving....once again.
I am sure the truth has to hurt for you insider, but I wouldn't expect anything less from someone who runs everytime their argument gets shot down.
Hey Insider, like it or not, my standard for "worthless" is the Bible, not the hallowed Amazon book reviews. It is a series of pragmatic steps to attmept to uniform every person in the world to that one personality trait and it will fail miserably...let us do a self check:
1. Have YOU become a success in selling as a result of reading this book?
2. If yes, please provide proof.
3. Has the whole sales world become a giant selling success as a result of that garbage?
4. Can you reading that book and putting it's principles into action get ME to buy a worthless product? NO it can not.
Obviously there are 'tricks of the trade', but frankly, and like most other trades, you will not learn them from a book.
wow some more of Insider's logic, how very insightful. Insider, you've mentioned on several occassions where N21 does not do the bad things that other LOS' do. thus giving us the impression that N21 is somehow better than the rest, therefore being the best. Is my logic flawed?
and also you claim the following: [i]Incidentally, I don't recall ever hearing anyone claim N21 is "the best". I've heard "largest training organisation of its type" and things like that,[b] but "the best" is so highly subjective everyone could make that claim about whatever they work with and be correct - maybe it is "the best" for them.[/b][/i]
but even before this you try and make a point that 57 people on Amazon thought the book you mentioned was great and that Xan was the only dissenting voice.
So if "the best" is so subjective as you point out when it comes to the LOS', then why are you citing subjective user comments as proof of the books worth? In other words, why do you ding Xan for stating his opinion on a book that obviously didn't work for him, and yet defend the IBO's who may have chose one LOS over another because it may have worked better for them than the other? Quite playing these logic games with us insider, they are tiresome and you seem to be tripping over your own feet thus lowering any credibility you might have otherwise had.
I started looking at other blogs and websites looking for comments on N21.
Apparently they are just as bad as any other LOS. Comments included were that N21 was described to an IBO as non-profit, etc. I started a thread in the critics section of the forum.
I remember getting a copy of one of Shad Helmstetter's (?) books. It was the first one written especially for distributors.
He had spoken at an INA function (Jim Floor's) on the west coast and spoke directly to us about how our organization was the best.
Sure enough, when the book came out the preface said we were the best. The funny part was that the print where it said "INA is the best" was odd. "INA" was not in line with the print, and the font was different. It obviously was stamped in after publishing just for us.
I'll bet every organiztion got their own versions of both the speech and the book. I just wish I'd saved it instead of throwing it out with the rest of the trash.
Back to lurking.
I have over 10,000 tapes and CD's from virtually all major lines of sponsorship, and although I haven't come close to listening to all of them, I have found many more similarities than differences. There are probably as many differences between the different personalities within one line of sponsorship than between the different lines of sponsorship. As one high level pin is fond of saying (and probably others), "we all have the same plan". Of course, he said this in the context of why isn't everyone at the same level he is, as we all have the same Q plan. What he didn't discuss, quite obviously, is why do so many people drop out after buying the overpriced tools, which he benefits from? Why do many call this the "best business opportunity in the world", and has a 50-70% first year dropout rate? Perhaps because the tools are so overpriced that it is very difficult to get more people excited? Perhaps because the internet, and now the FTC, is kicking in the kingpins' doors, with the tool scam facts?
I don't think each line of sponsorship is so much claiming to be the best within A/Q, as they are claiming to be the best overall educational system in the general business environment, comparing themselves to other businesses, especially other MLM businesses.
After all, it is not easy to plug into another tool system, as tool systems are not allowed to be offered to those in a different line of sponsorship, (although any IBO can seek out other tools on their own). Plus, when you actively go for other tools, how much help do you expect from your upline, even though the "official" rules clearly state tools are optional and not buying upline tools is not supposed to be held against you?
I can personally vouch that upline support evaporates when you go off the tool system.
iamquixtar>> I have over 10,000 tapes and CD's from virtually all major lines of sponsorship, and although I haven't come close to listening to all of them, I have found many more similarities than differences.
Do you literally mean 10,000 tapes???
It's exactly the same over on this side of the pond in Winbiz21. (Although I think that might be under Pat Schoffler? Network 21).
I can even remember getting a terrible lamitated photocopy with a list of people suggestions to contact ...including ex-girlfriends and boyfriends.
Like being in Amway/Quixtar isn't stressful enough!
This came as part of a "first night pack" that cost about £25 (over 40 dollars I guess).
to the best of my knowledge winbiz21 has no connection with network21
Here's some Gems that I found on other blogs:
"Guys be very careful of Amway and Network 21 (particularly network 21). When someone asked me to join i went and then i googled Amway and Network 21 when i got back. Google it yourselves and read the horror stories and court cases in the USA. There's hundreds of websites and thousands of stories to read.
The Amway products could be good, but the network 21 and similar orgaqnizsations are dodgy. You are unlikely going to make any money from Amway - in fact you are very likely going to lose money and time.
Anybody who has been to the presentation must make sure they get the other side of the story before signing in and invitng friends.
Lebo"
"From the beginning I was told that Network 21 is a non profit organisation."
that's the best you can come up with? a google of someone who googled? lol
having said that, if he was told it was a non-profit, whoever told him was wrong, simple as that.
but c'mon joe ... 16+ years in operation in 30+ countries with hundreds of diamonds and emeralds and thousands of platinums. Surely you can come up with a better "horror story" than "I googled them"!!! Heck, I can give you better "horror" stories than that involving people I personally sponsored! Indeed, I've mentioned them in posts.
So back to work joe, hit them internets!
ROFLMAO!!!!
insider, there's a lot more but making the post too long would become boring.
Just like a lot of your recent posts.
ahh, so following in xanadustc footsteps, when trying make a point you carefully pick out an example that doesn't actually support your point, and then claim "there's more! there's more!" ROFLMAO!!!
Ya mean like certain "insiders" who put out patent lies about certain "Quixtar tracking" - then turn tail????
Sheesh - be original for once.
And maybe try keeping your word??
16+ years???? LOL!!!
Maybe try being in the business first commenting???
Well, you certainly made sure that the words insider and credibility will never be seen in the same sentence!!!
As Gorilla Monsoon would say: You're a fountain of misinformation!
An Actual IBO -
(post 1) "Quixtar tracking"??? No idea what you are talking about
(post 2) huh? Care to rewrite that in to something that makes sense?
Hey "Insider",
I will explain what "AnActualIBO" meant by "Quixtar Tracking" - I have been asking you to substantiate your claim that Quixtar Tracks NET Profit and TIME Data for Platinums. Somehow you seem to keep missing my multiple requests for the link to that info - and just in case, before you go on a tangent about critics wanting "multiple-footnoted-peer-reviewed-published-statistics", I will spare you the time. All I want is a link. Hopefully you will provide one, this time. Or maybe I should just resort to calling you a "LIAR"?
I haven't deliberately avoided that, I've honestly missed the request. I can't help anyway though, afaik there is no "link" for this. I just know I've been surveyed and asked this information and I've heard and read other IBOs say the same thing.
ahhh ... I just checked through my emails, and I do have a link for you for the survey I undertook. Says survey closed, but at least some evidence for you. The survey included questions about amount of time spent on the business, expenses and many other things.
http://www.cfmc.com/surveys/census2/indexe.html
A google also found this old press release from Onyx and it talks about Amway surveying IBOs -
http://www.onyx.com.sg/pdf/amwayCaseStudy.pdf
doesn't give details though.
"Insider">> I haven't deliberately avoided that, I've honestly missed the request.
ROFL!!!!! HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!!!! You really think people on here are stupid? I ask that question on multiple threads where you post responses to other posters even after my requests, yet you somehow miss my request... Hmmm... funny, somehow I find that hard to believe...
And after a few days (enough time to create a link to some supposed survey), you respond to my request? And then again, you indulge in your usual evasive tactics - I want a link to the data that QUIXTAR CORPN. collects... NOT some phony link to a suppposed survey that is NOW closed, that for all I know you created. Hey Porkchopjim, are you getting a sense of deja-vu right now ;-)?
believe it or not I don't spend all my time on here reading peoples posts. In general I respond when I get an email notification saying somebody has responded directly to one of my posts and then I click on the link. I do not get notified of new posts even in those thread, even if they happen to have questions addressed to me. Took to Qblog, maybe he'll pay someone to program that in.
I did not see your posts, no. Sorry if you feel offended that I don't consider you that important.
But given you think that in a few days I managed to take over a major company like CfMC and put up a website just so I can give you a "phony link", well I don't expect you'd believe even a link to quixtar.com anyway.
I recommend a tin foil hat, it might help.
it or not I don't spend all my time on here reading peoples posts.
Riiiiiiiiiiight ;-)
In general I respond when I get an email notification saying somebody has responded directly to one of my posts and then I click on the link.
And that's how you keep finding new threads to respond to?
Sorry Insider:
I should have written: Maybe try being in the business first before commenting??
I didn't realize Amway started in 1990 (according to Insider)
and maybe you should start actually reading the thread before typing. We were talking about network twentyone, not amway, founded late '89.
I just showed another Insider Lie!!!
Did I e-mail you? Nope! You just showed what a puppet you are!
Maybe you should be content to live on this board -you're obviously too weak for the real world when "idiots" like me drag you around by the nose.
Disengage your ego for a second - you might figure out what's happening.
Still waiting for the link!
Here's a hint ... tick that little box that says "subscribe to this entry" next time you post, and see what happens.
If you're actually "an actual IBO" then it's no wonder IBOs get a bad name.
But just to clarify anyway, I was talking about the forums, not the blog. I assumed that's where these "multiple requests" re "quixtar tracking" had been posted. Since I didn't and haven't seen them, I have no idea whether they were here on the forums, I may have incorrectly assumed the latter.
But try ticking the subscribe box anyway, genius.
No "Insider",
I had NOT posted the requests on the forum, I had posted them on multiple threads here on the blog - especially on the thread where you claimed that Quixtar tracks NET Profit Data.
F.Y.I., I just found out. QUIXTAR HAS NEVER COLLECTED NET PROFIT DATA.
So, YOU WERE LYING ALL ALONG?
hmmm ... care to direct me to where I made that claim? A/Q do surveys asking about expenses and time is what I was claiming. If it was interpreted otherwise then I mustn't have been clear.
Why are you so interested in net profit anyway? Net profit doesn't tell you much - any sensible business owner tries to (legally) minimise net profit in order to minimise tax. I certainly try to make my net profit as close to zero as I legally can.
I won a business too, and yes I try to show net profit (as little as legally possible as you put it). But the point here isn't how much "profit" you made, but how much "loss you claimed"
If year after year I had a profit loss, the GVT would be asking some serious questions, like "why the hell are you in a business if you are losing money".
If you dont have a job to "balance" it with, the gvt would DEFINATELY be asking serious questions.
So why not anser the question Insider instead of trying to detract from it.
Which organization teaches you to stay "positive" people and stay clear of the "negative" people?
Also what tapes teach you about "If you beleive it can happen, anything can"
Does this mean if I truly beleived pigs could fly (or for that matter I could fly) they/I could?
Marc:
question 1: an old thread now, what was the question? Otherwise I completely agree with your comments. The aim of a business is to make money.
question 2: R.Kelly? ;-)
Everyone wants to think (and are certainly told) that their group is the best. Thanks to the ban on crosslining, the average IBO is not able to compare groups anyway.
Insider tells us that Network 21 is actually the "best" group; but I have a source that tells me Bobby Howard's group (via Yager) is actually the "elite" group - Quixtar/Amway loves them the best.
My opinion, after years of reading posts?? They're all the same - they just word the lies a little differently.
Deb
Posted by: Deb | July 4, 2006 1:40 PM