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June 3, 2006
Unprecedented Meeting?
By QBlog in A/QMOs
Preston, one of the Quixtar BLOG authors, recently posted about his meeting with WWDB leaders Dick Davis and Brad Duncan. This is quite possibly the first meeting of its kind — where a former IBO who publishes a blog critical of Quixtar's tool businesses has a sit-down meeting with leaders of one of those organizations.
I hope I've made myself clear from the beginning: I want truth. I want to discuss it, and I want things to be clear to folks who may be evaluating their options and looking at Quixtar.
I had the opportunity recently to sit down for two hours with Dick Davis, CEO of WWDB, and Brad Duncan, Founders Triple Diamond. It was quite an informative discussion.
It's not clear exactly what was said at that meeting (groan, more secrets) but we learn that Dick Davis doesn't like the Qrush Blog and that WWDB recognizes current pin levels instead of former accomplishments.
Are we possibly witnessing the dawn of a new era in communication between so-called Quixtar critics and the leaders of the businesses they criticize? What "legal constraints" force those leaders to spill the beans at a Starbucks instead of publicly revealing the "insightful" information?
Which Quixtar leaders would you like to meet with?
Comments
Wow. Congratulations, Preston, on this unprecedented meeting, as QBlog calls it. Methinks they are becoming more and more nervous about all the exposure on the web and are realizing that threatening people with lawsuits just makes them look even worse.
I believe it was stated by people over on the forum that WWDB goes by current level, so that wasn't a surprise to me.
I would like to think they are nice, honest people since I tend to think the best of people, but my Quixtar experience has made me a little more cynical. (Or is it wiser and less naive?)
Are they going to come out and say how much they make on tools vs. Q income? Are they going to correct the lie about Howie Danzik building his biz to Diamond single? Maybe when they take these or similar steps, I will be convinced. Anyone can act sincere (conmen come to mind), so whatever. Who knows, after years and years of indoctrination, maybe Brad thinks he's being doing the right thing. As they say, actions speak louder than words.
At least, Preston got a free coffee.
Which Quixtar leaders would you like to meet with?
Jim Payne
Executive Vice President &
Managing Director, Quixtar Inc.
"Which Quixtar leaders would you like to meet with?
Jim Payne"
I agree David!
My personal choice would be to meet with the founders, Jay Van Andle and Rich Devos.
I met Rich briefly...not much more than a handshake...but did talk with Dan DeVos for a bit in Atlanta once.
If WWDB wants to set themselves apart from the rest, all they need to do is follow Rich DeVos' suggestion of making a maximum of 20% of your their income from tools.
I have seen Brad Duncan flat out lie over and over again.
Brad would often say:
"I don't make pennies 'til you make dollars".
Yet he changed his story when we had a private meeting at (WWDB Diamond) Samir Attalah's house where he outlined the millions that could be made on the system.
There is no denying that Brad Duncan is a charasmatic person. The only person I ever met that was more charasmatic than Brad was Bill Clinton.
Honestly is another subject.
Ty,
Please tell me how much of Brad's income is from tools vs Quixtar.
It would be interesting to know what you think.
Mevi, it will be interesting to know what you think too. You've met him recently.
Mevi,
If Brad Duncan told you how much he makes, why don't you simply tell us?
Are you saying that there are legal reasons he can't reveal the % he makes from Quixtar vs. WWDB/System sources?
BAH!
Based on the meeting I had with Brad I would say roughly 75% of his income comes from WWDB in one form or another.
At the time of the meeting, Brad was comparing his income (favorably) to the $87 Million contract Gary Payton had recently signed with the Seattle Sonics, saying that Payton's contract could not touch his income over the long term.
Brad explained that WWDB income for Diamonds is divided based on the number of people you have attending F.E.D. However, I would not be surprised in Brad and Greg have some type of special deal in place with Puryear. Among Duncan diamonds, it was pretty much common knowledge that Greg and Brad were going to break away from WWDB when Greg went Double Diamond, but they decided to stay put. Based on speaking to Diamonds in other organizations, I understand that these special deals in addition to the regular % are standard when you grow to a large portion of a system (as the Duncans have in WWDB).
I would guess the Wolgamott may have gotten a similar deal. I would have pegged him to break away as well.
Ty,
Brad Duncan originally recruited Greg Duncan into the business. Brad is a Triple Diamond Where Greg is only a double diamond.Brad's business is much much larger than Greg's business is. Brad Wogamott was originally rectuited by Brad Duncan as well- after meeting at a gas station while Brad Duncan was going to a "no show" meeting where he knew the prospect wasn't going to the show, but he went anyways.. Of course, they are all tied into Ron Puryear.
sorry that's "recruited"
It honestly appears to me that this "meeting" is a complete waste of time. It would be like me saying I met with President Bush or the Pope to see how they really feel, but I can't tell you because of restraints. Come on. Can we not do better than this? What do we know now that Preston has had this meeting that we didn't already know. Well, we know that WWDB still won't come out & just be honest about tools profits. We know that Brad is a "compassionate" man as he compassionately takes mega-profits from his struggling downline. And we know that WWDB would like to distance itself from the Dateline show. However, they are using all the same tactics & "System" that is used by those on Dateline. Let's see, do things like (tapes, CDs, Kate, functions, rallies, the system) sound like anything we heard on Dateline. I think so. It is also the exact same things we hear from WWDB. Meetings are great, but if they produce absolutely nothing of value they are a great waste of time.
Michael,
Once again, you pretty much show the world that you have no idea what you are talking about.
Greg Duncan sponsored Brad Duncan and Greg Duncan went Double Diamond before Brad Duncan.
Brad Duncan went Triple Diamond before Greg Duncan, but I believe that Greg is now Triple Diamond as well, although reportedly Brad is a founders triple.
The Duncan line of sponsorship:
Puryear
Severn
Woodhead (now Emerald, I think)
Greg Duncan
Brad Duncan
Here is a good one for all of you...
Who owns XS Energy Drink?
I believe the distributing company is named "Sarshela" & is owned by some high level IBOs. I have heard (Not confirmed) that Greg or Brad Duncan is part owner of Sarshela. That would mean that they are likely profiting off every case of XS that is sold. Once again, that profit is primarily from downline & non Quixtar related.
The registered agent of Sarshela for the State of Wa is Scott Coon. I think that you would find that to be the same Scott Coon that is (was?)personally sponsored by Greg Duncan in Amway/Quixtar.
Ty,
Brad Duncan sponsored Greg, then went to sponsor his father, David Duncan. Brad has a much bigger business than Greg has. Brad is also working on his qualifications for Crown Ambassador. Most people assume Greg sponsored Brad. I thought that originally too, until I heard it through my upline.
Well, if you heard it from your upline then it must be true.
Good job getting the meeting, there's a positive in that he was willing to meet with a critic.
I would think that if Duncan had nothing to hide, he would share the information required to snub out the controversy. ie. percentage of tools profits vs. the percentage gained from Amway/Quixtar product movement.
Obviously, that's not likely to happen. The argument could be made that this is because it's nobody's business.
But then if that's the argument, why say that you are in business together?
To end all controversy and bad PR, all that needs to be done is show your percentage made off the tools.
AND....
Show that to any prospect when showing the plan, in an open transparent way. That way, they can make FULLY informed choices.
That would shut me up anyways. maybe........
Michael,
I am trying really hard here...
I am not assuming Brad is sponsored by Greg, I KNOW Brad is sponsored by Greg.
Brad gives the rundown on his old rally tape, I think it was RP-372(S).
and
http://bduncan.wwdb.biz/
Look at who it says for Upline Diamond.
It was fun playing.
Micheal,
According to Brad's own tapes, Greg sponsored him. Brad was the Friday speaker for my FED 2001, I still have two tapes from him, one is where he tells the stroy of when he was sponsored.
Sorry, but I think you need more verification than "my upline told me". My upline told me a lot, it doesn't mean it was true.
xan,
Since Brad said it on his website-
I'll believe him then.
Thank you for clarifying that.
I wonder why Preston doesn't allow open comments...
I don't mind that he requires a "word" verification to allow comments, I just wished he would approve the comment I left several times at one entry over the last week.
maybe he's just real busy.
Dave
Didn't Mevi (Preston) just get back from his honeymoon?
Preston, I hope you and your wife had a great time.
Somebody help me understand what the big deal is here. Mevi met with Brad Duncan. Mevi can now say Brad is compassionate. Mevi can't tell us anything else because of "restraints". Two hours of meeting and all Mevi can say is Brad is compassionate. This is not an unprecedented meeting. This is business as usual. Meet for two hours but nothing can be shared. Actually sounds like a Quixtar arbitration meeting to me. Everything must be kept confidential. Either the kingpins (Duncan included) are making most of their income off of tools or not. If they are, then they are commiting a great fraud on their downline. For years, they have proclaimed their lavish lifestyles can be supported by their Quixtar business. If the majority their money comes from tools (not Quixtar), then they are liars. Mevi, what is the point of telling everyone you have met with Brad Duncan if you can't share the important revelations you have discovered? This seems to be much about absolutely nothing.
WAIT A sec? Is that why comments havent been coming through the last few months? I must have something broken at blogger, cuz I havent received a notice to approve anything!
I only have(had) word verification on AFAIK...let me look into this.
Please try commentting now. I had comment moderation on without an e-mail address filled in. Anyone can comment, if you fill in the word (now).
Sorry folks...I wonder why no one emailed me on this :(
Alaska was wonderful :)
FYI, Brad was founders triple diamond in 2005.
I was told that disclosing tool profits to non-IBOs would violate a law...something about "enticement"
RE: Refund: Dick Davis intends to personally spearhead a refund on the tools my upline originally scoffed at buying back.
Also, regarding "Disclosure" of who makes money on tool income... it IS disclosed when you sign up for premiere membership (which to access those terms and conditions, you need an active IBO number[supposedly due to the same enticement thing I mentioned earlier])
Ty: I won't play a game of hot and cold, but suffice it to say it may be worth your time to try to solicit your OWN meeting with WWDB
Ty...
To complete the answer to your XS ownership question...
Sarshela Corp...the answer is in the name itself...
"Sar" for Sarah Vanderveen, wife of Dave Vanderveen, sponsored by Scott Coon, AND, incidentally, cousin to the Van Andels...
"She" for Shelly Coon, wife of Scott Coon, sponsored by Greg Duncan.
"La" For Laurie Duncan, wife of Greg Duncan.
I don't know that for an absolute fact, however I do know that both Scott & Dave "work" for XS and show up at every function I'm at, working the XS booth. I do know that these are their wives' names.
I do know that the Vanderveens moved from CA to WA to work for XS and wouldn't talk about it or be specific for a year.
It's elementary, my dear Watson!
And yes, of course, Brad was sponsored by Greg. Duh! When and where did that rumor start? I've never heard that one before.
Speaking of XS...
http://www.thisbiznow.com/quixtar/xs_energy.html
wow mevi, i am very interested in that "enticement" part of this. Meaning from: http://www.wordreference.com/definition/enticement -- the act of influencing by exciting hope or desire; "his enticements were shameless" further -- qualities that attract by seeming to promise some kind of reward
If you return to some forum posts i made, i pointed out a similar possibility to why there is no "contract" or "explicit explanation to prospects" about the tools -- it is contridiction to the rules of Quixtar, for one (no money making venture other than products in plan) AND it is not under the same "blessing" as the 6-4-2 or 6-3 or whatever in terms of the FTC.
Further, from my brief understanding of explanations from diamond down, the "britt breaks" as they are referred to in BWW are "profit sharing" incentives, concurrent with "fund sharing" payments emeralds and above have access too. None of these have a "guarantee" of being available to anyone at any level at any time beyond the present, thus making a claim that they will be specific to any number would very much, IMO constitute enticement.
Whether you like that or not, that is my opinion on where that "enticement" comes from. I too think this is a big step for both sides how a "kingpin" mending issues with an outspoken critic. One must ask next, however, is will this open a flood gate of other individuals making a claim similar to Prestons story and taking advantage of such compassion? (just playing devil's advocate for a bit)
Thanks for the video link, Dave! It's funny that Dave Vanderveen makes himself sound like an outsider. He was a platinum of Emerald Scott Coon's long before XS came along.
It just goes to show you guys that if you can act in a civilized and professional manner, I am sure we'd see more and more of these types of interviews. Whatever was held in that meeting, great job Preston.
I'm not sure that we can call this meeting an interview.
What information came out of it?
1. Dick Davis doesn't like Qrush. Of course he doesn't like Qrush. Qrush makes Quixtar IBO's look like idiots.
2. WWDB recognizes folks at their actual pin level? I think that was already well documented.
To quote the old lady from the Wendy's commercial in the 80's..."Where's the beef?"
There was a very long discussion about Scott Harimoto "falling out", the general "feel" of the thread was that there was a "grace period" to requalify.
My point of saying "current pin level" is to say that no, there is no grace period. If someone is going to speak, iti s at their current pin level. They don't necessarily make a big fuss about falling out, but they don't deny it, either.
So have your views about the biz changed at least a bit, Mevi?
I'd really like to meet with the heads of all the "systems" now and see what they say...I've heard a few different systems say, "we're different" (WWDB included)...now I'd like to know how they know that (and to prove it).
I have not heard much of the "we're different" between BWW and WWDB especially because of the sharing of speakers, CDs, and book lists.
Do you agree?
Umm Brad, maybe deceptive practices is what makes your LOS's similar.
you people make me laugh, the diamonds take their knowledge, and make a tape out of it. Gee, sounds like what John Maxwell does and Donald Trump and anybody else does and do you know how much these tapes are for premere ibo's? $2.50 to $5.00 now, whether or not they are makin money out of these SO WHAT!! more power to them!! when I get these tapes, i am getting valuable info and me and my husband are makin A lot of money it is also coming from retail clients I noticed people are not sayin how much they made from clients is it because some of you people hardly worked at this business? thats what I want to know. and further more, Brad Duncan every tear, at Christmas time chooses a family out of their church they attend, and spends tons of money to get the family anything they need shoes, clothes, scholl supplies for kids whatever the family needs they are more than happy to provide!! do some research on the diamonds before you go and put them down!
school*
My husband has been doing this for 6 and a half years, under dream builders. All this has done for us is cause problems. He has spent about $14,000-$18,000 and made a whopping $125.00 last year, which was about 125% more than the 6 years before. He isn't honest about this stuff with himself or anybody else. He would choose this over everything else we have, including our marriage.
How much does Puryear make off from these reunions he does? Why doesn't he give figures for that kind of stuff. Why does he insist on making everybodys room reservations and charging them for them? He is rolling in thousands just off from the reunions. Not to mention the mileage he must be getting for doing it all under his name. He probably could fly anywhere anytime off from what he gets from 1 reunion.
Look, it's not your business of how much he makes just like its none of my business how much you make! do you know how much John Maxwell makes from his seminars? A whole lot more than Family Reunion I'll tell you that much!!and the reunion tickets include hotel and food now, how many functions come with that!! and for "unhappy wife" support your husband you are destroying him inside STOP IT!! if you feed negative words, he will feel like A failure, but if you feed him positive words he will feel like he can move the world for you!! we as women are powerful and we don't even realize it watch what you say to him and besides, be grateful that you have someone with A dream,there are so many women that are married to men that just takes lfe as it comes they don't go and take what they want out of life don't concentrate on the negative just look for possitive things to think about doesn't it say in the Bible, A man without A dream shall perish!and "unhappy wife",when his businessdoes takes off he should be the only one to enjoy it but that is just my opion
It is interesting that you compare Quixtar to John Maxwell, both tool business. There is nothing wrong with having a dream. Unfortunately dreams don't feed your family and provide a roof over your head and provide you with the rest of lifes necessaties. We are fortunate that my husband has a good paying job, otherwise he would not have the money to spend on this hobby. If this has provided you with an income that would support a family, you are one of the very few.
I guess you think it is fine to have to deal with all of the negative figures of loss year after year, but IF he ever makes any money, I should not be a part of that. This does not work out for everybody that tries it.
Unhappy wife,theres A lot more people than John Maxwell, there is Disney, circuit city, Barnes & nobles, whirpool, Basspro shop, micro soft, I mean, list goes on do you think these people would get with just anybody? no, they had their attorneys and lawyers check this company out before they did anything. Look just support your husband and lets agree to disagree ok? becausewe just think differently WAY differently I strongly erge you to watch "Cinderella man" if you haven't aleady it was based on A true story no matter what they went through, she supported him.
My husband joined this to become rich. That is what they told him would happen. If he even broke even, profits minus expenses, it would be easier to consider just a way he wants to spent his "spare" time. When it is costing you $2,000-$3,000. per year, it doesn't make much since to even keep "donating" our money to the high people up in dream builders. The average I.B.O. makes a gross income of $135.00 month. Even if 50% of the active I.B.O.s make nothing, that would be an average of $270.00 month. I'll even go with 75% of the active I.B.O.s making nothing and then the average would be raised to$405.00 month. How many people can you support on $405.00 mo. That is also taking into consideration that expenses are NOT taken out of that. I think the mind control these people have over you guys is unbelievable. You said that how much money my husband makes is none of your business and that is true, but when these people lie to so many people about how much money they are going to make, it is pathetic and most dishonest. Why do you have to go through so much red tape to find out the figures on averages, if they are so great. True, you can look in the magazines and see how many NEW qualified people made diamond and soforth. They don't even want you to sit down and write your expenses and profit. It is sooooo negative and you might actually realize what is really going on. Any good business person would keep a close track on their expenses and profits. I don't think your upline would care about seeing your record either. Heck, they are just as mind controlled as you are. Why don't you get real. Welcome to reality.
Ok, I have tried to be nice but now you are telling me basically to get my head out of the clouds and come to reality? reality is is that you are soooo negative that you won't do anything in your life if you just want to be like A hamster going around and around going from job, home, job, home, that seems to be fine with you but not for me!!me and my husband have A dream to succeed and bring value to other people's lives it is not just about makin money it's about getting A call 10 or 11 o'clock at night someone needing to have someone to talk to about A problem!! its helping people when they are in need you just want money and yes we do need money it is important but its not the only thing in life lady!! we are out there makin A difference in people's lives you should try it some time!! and not just yourself!!!
I recently joined Quixtar, and I'm looking for anything to help clear up some scepticism in my head. please inform me about quixtar doesn't matter positive or negative
Rickey you should ask your upline platinum about your questions these people who are putting things on here that are negative are like going to a blog page for walmart and seeing all the bad things on there. Any time a company or an individual is succesfull people get jealous and make accusations and comments too make them feel better because they are not as motivated to do the same thing. The great thing about this business is that you can follow in your uplines footsteps and you will succeed if you don't quit! The person who is the biggest failure is also the biggest success! Do you think Michael Jordan never failed? Do you also think he only made his money from playin ball, and not from the sponsorships and companies he was involved with???? Get honest and you will see the truth! Any name that is successfull can be used in place of Michael Jordans.....
SPR_ENT,
Either that or we are simply warning prospects to dotheir homework instead of blindly listening to their quixtar sponsors.
Critics have nothing to gain or lose by informing people of the truth. Quixtar supporters on the other hand, have much to gain by lying or deceiving a prospect to get them plugged into their system.
lovequixtar, how much money have you made from your "business"?
Do you think you'll be doing this for another 5 years?
Have you heard of the term "opportunity cost"?
I remember Brad Duncan talking about how Bill Gates cannot touch his lifestyle and that Bill Gates has to go to work everyday.. What a joke.. Brad lives in hicksville montana... becuz he cannot play with the big boys on Lake Washington.... Also Brad loves to use Christ and religion in vain to make people feel guilty... "Those of you working the business the good lord is so proud of you" How come Mr. Duncan does not get involved w/Charities on a regular basis... Seems to be more of a TAKER.... Successful people don't talk about money.. they talk about impacting others in a positive way..
Brad Duncan,
is so greedy and full of BS. all he does is lookout for himself and spew propogana.... He dont own his business, his business owns him.. hes always out traveling... do you get to spend each night helping your children with their homework? NO because you are always out hunting for money... In fact education is not impt to someone who lives in the woods in podunk town..
I am personally sponsored by Brad Duncan. I was sponsored in 1988. I was an Emerald in 1994. I AM NOW A FOUNDERS SAPPHIRE. I have always been on auto renewal but quixtar supposedly changed that this last year. I lost my brother and mother this last year and have been somewhat preoccupied with that therefore I was not up to date on the renewal process. After finding out that I had to renew online I did. The next day I got an e-mail from Quixtar saying I was renewed without my group. My group consists of approx. 500 distributors. 2 platinums that I personally sponsored around 1990 and a third leg that may be going platinum this year that I started in 1988. I called Quixtar this morning and was told that brad duncan requested that I be renewed without my group. In essence, he wants my business. Why? You guess. This is not the first time I have had challenges with Brad and my business. He told me that I was not being a "Good Christian" and that I should turn my business over to him. He also told me in a conversation in 1995 when my son was 1 year old and I was concerned about not being around for him ( I was showing the plan) to"F*** YOUR SON" -"You need to build this business". Is this the right attitude/actions for a leader of men. There are a lot of people that are drawn into this business through the premise of "We care about you". If you care to address this in any context feel free, but know that I had been with brad in all different types of "ENVIRONMENTS" and unless you "KNOW" brad don't speculate. Thanks Lloyd
Posted by: lloyd
Please tell me Brad refunded Preston's money?
Else its so typical. He appeared sincere, felt sorry. He's the one who took lion's share of preston's tool expenses, yet didn't return it. What a joke!
Or...he was 'concerned' at his loyal downline, who did whatever he taught them. That downline sells Brad tools to ppl like preston and me. Ha!
So, what he's doing to help the IBOs who lost money helping him go tripple diamond? Buying them coffee and saying his downline minions should've coughed up the refund for Brad's tool?
Posted by: Imran Aziz | June 3, 2006 8:07 PM