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June 28, 2006
The Wrong Business
By QBlog in Quixtar
I've said it before and after listening to Combden's message I think it's time to say it again:
If the success or failure of your business is determined by a few bloggers exercising their First Amendment rights then you're in the wrong business.
Comments
Another piece of blogger dishonesty setting up such a false dichotomy. $6.4 billion in sales and hundreds of new platinums each year in North America alone shows we're "succeeding" quite nicely thank you.
But I for one think we should make things as easy as possible for people to build this, and not have to deal with the disinformation, and in some cases outright lies, of a "few bloggers".
But so often we read from the critics "if it wasn't true then why doesn't the corporation do something about it"? And when they do something about it, the critics complain again. How so very not surprising.
How not surprising that one of the few dissenting voices is you insider. It's funny how you love to claim lies and deceit from critics but fail to recognize the same from these business leaders. You're right despite what the few bloggers have done, Quixtar itself has grown. However, these leaders feel that these few bloggers are enough of a threat to their own personal business (not Quixtar the company, but TEAM, BWW, etc...) that they need to make fake blogs, and taks forces in order to push down these "negative" bloggers in search engines. Oh yes, quite the honest thing to do.
But I for one think we should make things as easy as possible for people to build this, and not have to deal with the disinformation, and in some cases outright lies, of a "few bloggers".
So stopping anyone from receiving infomation that's critical of Quixtar is good in your opinion?
But so often we read from the critics "if it wasn't true then why doesn't the corporation do something about it"? And when they do something about it, the critics complain again. How so very not surprising.information from getting out at all.
Would you put a band-aid on a broken leg? That's basically the type of fixes that Quixtar has done to meet the criticisms.
But so often we read from the critics "if it wasn't true then why doesn't the corporation do something about it"? And when they do something about it, the critics complain again. How so very not surprising.
And another one of insider's straw-man "misinterpretations" that completely misconstrues the critics' point.
"Doing something about it" would be preventing the actions that are the source of all this negative criticism, not preventing the public from seeing negative criticism by drowning it out.
Duh. Although I'm not surprised you didn't get it, again. Back to your old tricks, I see!
Information control always comes back to bite those who employ it. And the fact that they choose to employ it means that these "internet critics" are having a bigger effect than you'd like to admit.
Hmmm Insider....
...you do tell people that it's 6.4 Billion cumulative from Sept. 1999 and not per year as you are deceitfully implying???
You make it too easy.
" 'Doing something about it' would be preventing the actions that are the source of all this negative criticism, not preventing the public from seeing negative criticism by drowning it out."
Very well said, DI.
Another piece of blogger dishonesty setting up such a false dichotomy.
Yup we blogger are a tribe, we agree on every thing and only purpose of our existance is to spread negative.
Next broad brush please?
Btw what do we call ppl who use broad brushes e.g. "I was mugged by a black guy, another example of black ppl criminalism?" Ah yes, bigot/.
$6.4 billion in sales and hundreds of new platinums each year in North America alone shows we're "succeeding" quite nicely thank you.
Good, so that means such a successful company don't need to employ blog flooding. Great!
insider> $6.4 billion in sales and hundreds of new platinums each year in North America alone shows we're "succeeding" quite nicely thank you.
PT Barnum> There's a sucker born every minute.
Joe> How much sales did Enron and Worldcom produce?
Nice try insider. Why not go play on the freeway?
Well, An Actual IBO - you've just divorced yourself from even the slightest thread of credibility with that comment, $6.4 billion was for 2005 alone - not cumulative. Where on earth did you get that idea from? Or just trying to spread a false meme, like the idea that sales have dropped since a peak in the 90s ... ignoring the fact that the method of reporting has changed.
Imran, hope your logic is better when you are programming. Given an example of blogger dishonesty in no way implies all bloggers are dishonest.
JC can go take some logic lessons with you, since he seems to think big company instantly means corrupt company.
As for the other comments - have you followed my posts at all? I'm more than happy to criticise IBOs when they lie or deceive or do stupid things.
Just to clarify:
2005 Sales were 6.4 Billion for ALTICOR.
That is combined sales from Quixtar North America and Amway Worldwide and associated companies of Alticor.
But still impressive.
Dave
"As for the other comments - have you followed my posts at all? I'm more than happy to criticise IBOs when they lie or deceive or do stupid things."
Apparently I haven't because all I usually see you doing is whine and moan about how critics are deceitful and "cherrypickers".
On a side note though where is that information about how Alticor reported it's earnings differently in the 90's vs. today? I'd be interested in reading that.
insider> JC can go take some logic lessons with you, since he seems to think big company instantly means corrupt company.
Joe> And you think billions in sales mean good, ethical and fair. What's your point?
Why don't you go play on the freeway?
Hey Insider,
I am still waiting for a link showing the NET Profit Data that you claim Quixtar Collects.... Like I said earlier, I don't want any "peer-reviewed published statistical papers" as you so nicely put it - just a link showing the NET Profit Data.
Oh, also, you still haven't shown us how you came to the conclusion that Willy's a "bigot". In case you didn't notice, I provided links for a few posts from Willy showing clearly (or at least that's what I deduced from it) that Willy didn't make any racist statements. Just scroll down on that post to the very bottom to see my comment.
Since you are such a master at logic, I am sure you can prove me wrong...??
Insider - there's another pitch down the middle you watch called for strike three looking.
I snap my fingers - you dance.
Your arrogance so gets in the way you can't even see when you are played the fool.
David got it - but then again, he's actually in the business....
Insider has it partially right - the method of reporting sales HAS changed.
In 2000, Alticor began reporting sales at wholesale (what they actually collected from the IBOs) as opposed to the previous reporting method, which was at full retail (what they collected from the IBO's plus the alleged retail mark-up of approx. 30%).
Naturally, sales will appear lower after this transition.
Insider also got it wrong, though, in that sales were lower in 1999, the year of the much-lauded Q-launch, and the last year of reporting sales at retail, than in 1998.
This drop in sales coupled with the dramatic rise in the last decade of overseas business (Alticor claims that currently about 80% of their business is overseas) would indicate that in the US, sales have dropped markedly.
Hey "Insider",
It's funny how you ignore questions that put you in an uncomfortable position, huh? Or maybe, you are trying to "collect" the "NET Profit Data" for the corporation? You being an "Insider", and all?
That's insider's strategy. When beaten, he ignores the thread or moves to a new one. But actually, he started throwing insults at people. I took it peacefully for a while but I must admit it's getting old.
You know what's funny? insider always criticizes hypothetical group analysis, yet on his own "sticky" thread, no one wanted to respond with the actual parameters or their groups. Funny how that works.
Also funny is how inside makes a hypothetical guess on how many IBOs and diamonds on a thread and when asked by QBlog where he got the info, he says it was from the Qblog site.
Precious.
And this is the guy insulting everyone? Sheesh!
To Joecool18.
I am curious on your story about the business, were you a former IBO? If so why did you quit? Do you keep in contact with your former sponsor? Email me at Jert72@yahoo.com
In order to build this business you must be able to take the No's. If you let a few No's make you loose your focus you could have a rude awakening in the real world.
I myself grew in the business and developed a more outgoing personality and stronger self image. I have sense been promoted to project manager, promoted faster among the three other managers.
This business helped me gain that image because of the No's. I had 74 No's before I sponsored my first IBO, who eventually quit in two months, but I didn't give up. I also drove over 4800 miles before sponsoring my first IBO. The people who succeed in this business, and in life must be willing to work HARD for whatever the cause and take the negative, then learn and grow. This also includes in your jobs.
Email me; I’m curious why you have such a negative attitude. If its because of the internet blogs and web sites, then search Google for ‘Wal-Mart’ or my favorite ‘war in Iraq’ and see how much positive is out there. Everyone has an opinion, bad or good, that’s what’s great about this free country.
Jeremy,
Joe doesn't have a negative attitude he has a realist attitude. Your business plan as it stands has a less then 1% success rate. Basically, one has better odds of getting rich in Vegas then Quixtar.
I'm happy you have found yourself in Quixtar, but that doesn't mean the critics arguments don't have some points.
I am a former IBO and have not only found bigger success in my career after leaving Quixtar but better success in other businesses after getting away from Quixtar. Your argument about being able to take NOs is moot. I don't know of one Quixtar Critic who got out simply because people told him No, there were other circumstances far worse like betrayal.
Also, are you seriously trying to compare Quixtar to the War in Iraq? Please come off of that it is an insult really.
I myself grew in the business and developed a more outgoing personality and stronger self image. I have sense been promoted to project manager, promoted faster among the three other managers.
Did you go into business to make money, or to "grow"? Most people go into business for the former reason, and the latter should not be used as justification for the existence of a "business."
Quixtar seems to use "personal growth" as a raison d'être when the primary goal of a business, profit, is nonexistent.
I also drove over 4800 miles before sponsoring my first IBO.
Seems to me like a lot of effort for very little result.
Jeremy,
Go to the forum and read member introductions. My story is there.
And I was an IBO, as a 4000 pin I made no profit. Nuff said.
Insider: "But I for one think we should make things as EASY as possible for people to build this, and not have to deal with the disinformation, and in some cases outright lies..."
Jeremy: "I had 74 No's before I sponsored my first IBO, who eventually quit in two months...The people who succeed in this business, and in life must be willing to work HARD"
So lets see, Quix wants to make it EASY for someone to work extremely HARD and probably fail, this is the message I get from these two.
Wouldn't it make sense that if Quix was such a grand opportunity, image "attacks" would be of no concern?
Folks with "negative" opinions would be such a minority that their voices would be nothing but barely perceived static overshadowed by the almost unanimous success and achievement of the IBO's glorious testimonials.
People would be flocking to this business in droves and knocking on the doors of the IBO's instead of the Scientologist recruitment styles taking place in the malls and bookstores across America.
Instantaneous communication is now a fact though, and there are more than a few critics of these lies, deceptions and mind control behaviors that Quix is quagmired in.
The petty attempts to quell the growing population of Quixi-cons will fail, its a pitiful attempt to shove Glister toothpaste back into the tube and only makes more of a mess out of a disgusting situation.
Why do IBOs always think telling the truth is negative?
And Dawso is right, it's the bad reputation of quixtar IBOs that make it hard to build the business.
Joe,
I think the only "truth" IBO's are supposed to be interested in is the upline's truth, everyone else's truth that deviates is considered inflammatory negative that stems from laziness and/or lack of ambition (ie. I was told I wasn't stretching myself far enough).
This sort of brainwashing is an attempt to control the masses and keep IBO's buying the tapes and system at large.
Many cults use the same formula to keep followers too busy and filled with convoluted thoughts to think for themselves.
Just to elaborate, Quixi-con is my cute attempt at saying "against Quixstar" vs Quixi-pro. Not to be mistaken for Neocon...man I need more coffee.
Dawson, in the other thread you talk about losing friends and family. Here you talk about if it was so good then image attacks would be of no concern.
It's apparent you have little to no understanding of human nature.
Microsoft has an image problem amongst a large population of computer users - does that mean they're not successful? Of course not. If they didn't have the image problem would they be better off? Or course.
This business is no different. We're building it anyway, if it had a better rep we'd just build it faster and easier. It's worth it either way.
But having obnoxious IBOs that build it in such a way as to alienate friends and family doesn't help with the image at all - so I'm glad you've elected to go do something else with your life.
Joecool18 - I made no "guess" about numbers of IBOs and Diamonds, to say so is a lie. It was using hard data from Quixtar that was scanned and published on this site, and then some basic mathematics. No guessing was involved. If you're of the opinion that taking factual numbers and applying maths to it is "guessing" then it's no wonder you managed to have a 4000PV business and make no money.
DI - if someone benefits from the personal development training provided by PDPs, are you suggesting they should not be allowed to get it from such a source unless they are also going to build and profit from the business? That such education is somehow "wrong" and they should pay some other source for it (normally more expensive) just because there's the potential to make money as well, but they are not?
I spent several years where I was not building this business at all, but still subscribed to the tape programs and attended occasional seminars.
I consider that I'm the one best placed to decide - not you - whether that was a worthwile use of my money. And I consider it was worth every single cent and more.
If you don't like it, then don't buy it. Simple.
Microsoft has an image problem amongst a large population of computer users - does that mean they're not successful? Of course not. If they didn't have the image problem would they be better off? Or course.
Microsoft has an "image problem" because there are legitimate gripes from computer users about the security and interface design of its software. Microsoft tries to improve this problem by building better-designed software and plugging the security holes in its programs. They don't attempt to drown out their critics with a flood of "positive" information. Your analogy fails.
This business is no different. We're building it anyway, if it had a better rep we'd just build it faster and easier. It's worth it either way.
Actually, your business IS different from Microsoft, and different from all other traditional businesses in many ways. Which is why these ridiculous "Quixtar is just like N" analogies always fail, and which is why I always ask IBOs to try to defend it on its own merits, without resorting to half-assed analogies.
if someone benefits from the personal development training provided by PDPs, are you suggesting they should not be allowed to get it from such a source unless they are also going to build and profit from the business?
Where did I say that they shouldn't be allowed? DON'T PUT WORDS IN MY MOUTH and STOP deliberately misinterpreting everyone.
Read what I said, again: "Quixtar seems to use "personal growth" as a raison d'être when the primary goal of a business, profit, is nonexistent."
The main goal of a BUSINESS is profit. Telling everyone how great your "business" is because it jsut enabled you to "grow personally" offers NIL justification for going into this business. Hell, if I'm so impressed by your personal growth, I'll go to B&N and buy the book.
That such education is somehow "wrong" and they should pay some other source for it (normally more expensive) just because there's the potential to make money as well, but they are not?
Again, COMPLETE misinterpretation of what I said. If you can't debate honestly, then don't debate at all. If you're dense, I'll repeat it again: What I addressed above was the use of "personal growth" as the justification of the existence of a "business" that makes no profit.
By the way, I noticed that you ignored my response to your original point. I'll take that as a concession.
insider,
The Microsoft similarity is inaccurate and tired, they are not the same as Quixtar and the reasons are so numerous as I will not waste the time to explain.
I was never an IBO, but I do know a few and I have had them attempt to recruit me. I agree with you that I am glad I am not nor ever will be an IBO.
Your arguments consist mostly of straw man statements and personal attacks. You assume much and perhaps would be more convincing with your arguments if you could stick to rational discourse instead of attacks. You remind me of a certain Tony that used to post on this site.
I wish you the best in your future with your cult like biz but I will not debate with your nonsense any further.
Cheers
Wow - comparing an IBOship to Microsoft.
Utter incompetence.
If Quixtar would design the business so enough people made some good money, these so-called negative sites would be as quiet as a speck of dust hitting the ground. Until they solve that problem, the "negative sites" will always be there with my full support. Remember "money talks,b.s. runs a marathon"
Oh good grief. The claim is made that "image" shouldn't affect a business, I use Microsoft as an example, but I could just have easily used Mom and Pops lawn mowing service, and you folk go off on some rant about Quixtar not being like Microsoft and I shouldn't be comparing IBOships to Microsoft. Duh! And you accuse me of constructing straw men? Ridiculous.
Particularly given the examples supplied support my point! Another commonality - Quixtar has an image problem because their are legitimate complaints (what? just like microsoft!?!?!? How dare I compare!!! :roll:). They should and need to be addressed and that's fair enough. But then folk like you come on with this cult rubbish with out any understanding or apparently even direct experience of the business, just some probably clueless, barely trained, new IBO tried to recruit them.
Is that another personal attack I'll be accused of? No - it's reality. Pointing out where people are wrong or ignorant are not personal attacks. If I called you stupid without evidence, that would be a personal attack.
Eric - more people went Platinum last year than even posted a negative message on a negative site, let alone did their own site. QED.
Once again insider you miss the point completely. Quixtar has an image problem, true. Microsoft has an image problem, also true. The difference here is that Microsoft is acting to remedy the complaints that users have with their products. Quixtar's method of dealing with complaints is to sue all critics in hopes of shutting them up. That's a big difference in how the two businesses handle such critisms.
Eric - more people went Platinum last year than even posted a negative message on a negative site, let alone did their own site. QED.
This little tidbit of information proves NOTHING, and the reasons why have been discussed ad nauseam. So stop pretending like people here are dumb enough to believe that it proves something, and take that QED and shove it.
The claim is made that "image" shouldn't affect a business, I use Microsoft as an example,
Actually, the point of the thread was the method that Quixtar uses to deal with its image problem. And that's where your Microsoft analogy falls flat on its face, because you conveniently ignored half of the issue.
insider if you're tired of debating with the critics, why don't you go take a long walk on a short pier?
Hey Insider
I know a little about this business from personal experience. I spent about 6 years in the biz in Billy Florence's group. It wasn't until I saw this website along with amquix that I learned that the majority of Q's money earnings came from "the system tools". That's very deceptive and this biz has a lot of cleaning up to do.
Microsoft has image problem in following areas:
- Their products crash
- They screw business partners. (Intel e.g. 64 bit fiasco)
- They eat small companies by bribing their main developers (Quarterdeck?).
Some ppl say we'd be much further in technology had microsoft not bullied that much.
A normal user is mostly concerned with a buggy product. And he has not much of a choice. I'm stucj with windows. And that's the inly OS left out there. I can't do my job in OSX or Linux. majority of my clients are on Windows plateform so I have to put my main focus there.
That was an image problem. Did Microsoft has a problem? They paid the largest fine in any corporation in history so according to the law, they do.
Quixtar: They have an image problem? Yeha. Does that image problem make it hard to build / recruit? Very much. Problem is with products or deception? I'd say it's deception.
What Quixtar is doing about it?
You know the people that post negative things about Quixtar are usually the ones that haven't done it or the ones who think its a get rich quick type of thing. They think "Oh It can't be done", what a load of crap. They get in and do nothing and expect to make money, no wonder the average is $115. Its cuz stupid people think money comes out of the sky. You have to work it, like you do your 9-5. You put more time into your job than you do yourself. You can stop typing crap, get your butt up and work it.
I've been in for a while, I know people that think they know it all and say "Oh, it doesn't work, wha wha wha", suck on a pacifier!
Exercising First Amendment rights? Our founding fathers wrote the First Amendment w/the intention on it being used to constructively criticize/protest Government action. Not so Snoop Dog could call women b***hes and ho's on his latest CD, or for you to condemn Quixtar, or any other business for that matter. That was a poor choice of words to get your point across. The First Amendment is the most misused/abused Amendment we have.
If you don't believe me, read it for yourself.
"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances."
Not so Snoop Dog could call women b***hes and ho's on his latest CD, or for you to condemn Quixtar, or any other business for that matter. That was a poor choice of words to get your point across.
You're kidding me, right? I'm glad you travelled back in time and you know the EXACT intentions of the founding fathers. But since the rest of us mere mortals can only read what the amendment says, well "making no law abridging the freedom of speech" says NOTHING about the intent and purpose of said speech.
I find it both hilarious and baffling that you think that criticisom of corporations should not fall under the first amendment. It really shows just how brainwashed (or maybe plain stupid) you are.
Couldn't agree with you more. If this business is the greatest thing PERIOD! Like Casey said on Dateline then a few bloggers telling their tale should be a non-issue.
In my opinion, the fact that it is clearly an issue to the big pins says quite a bit about the integrity of this business.
Posted by: Drew | June 28, 2006 5:34 AM