« The Wrong Business | Main | Will You Comment to the FTC? »
June 28, 2006
In Their Own Words - 8
By Xanadustc in Their Own Words
Who is correct about the number of people that make Diamond? ThisBizNow or Danny?
A lot of people say, ‘well, how many people go Diamond?’ Everybody that wants to, everybody that sticks in there. ‘How many people succeed?’ Everybody that sticks in there.
Who Succeeds [MP3 Download], BWW164: People of Strength, Team of Strength.
That sounds a little deceptive, does it not?
Comments
I was told the exact same thing when I was being prospected! I asked how many people were successful at this business. I got the 'ol suguar coated "Everyone that wants to succeed in this business, will succeed" What a line.
QUIXTAR ROCKS!
Anyone who wants to succeed can. It's not a difficult concept. Those who go to college and get a good job, if they want to do well in school, then they get good grades. If they don't want to do well in school, they don't! Quixtar is a ticket to freedom! Jesus Rocks too!
"Quixtar is a ticket to freedom."
Freedom from a steady income.
Freedom from relationships with your pre-Quixtar friends and family.
Freedom to spend years working towards bankruptcy.
Freedom to give up your own thoughts to follow the upline.
Using your own mind and not destroying your life ROCKS too!
UBET,
Please tell me who Jesus is.
I'm with JT - both are right. Funny how in the last thread I mentioned about bloggers posting false dichotomies - and voila - we have another straight after!
Dawson - why on earth would you lose your relationships with friends and family? Were you that obnoxious in trying to promote your business? Perhaps that's why you also equate it with loss of income/bankruptcy etc?
Treat it like a business, it will work like a business.
Insider,
Perhaps your not familiar with the cult like methodology of encouraging separation from "negative" individuals around a member, in this case an IBO.
If you are in fact a true "insider" you must have seen the process from time to time. It just probably seems like a normal thing to occur.
For example If ones Girlfriend/Wife/Husband/Parent/Friend isn't in full support of the business or its methods the upline encourages the IBO to attempt to bring them into the fold.
If that fails the IBO usually has less and less time to spend on outside relationships anyway (due to every waking hour focusing on the Biz) and are effectively brainwashed into believing anyone not towing the Quixtar line to be of negative influence.
Thus the IBO grows apart and or alienates from past relationships. In effect only other people in the Quix Biz are positive, so they become the only relationships fostered.
Scientologist do a similar "disconnect" from family and friends when the past relationships do not support or become Scientologist.
Its an effective cult technique for keeping a member away from any source that might threaten the programming of said individual via tapes, conventions and upline "truths".
Your reply might try to explain this away as a fluke or some other blithe answer, but the truth is it does happen and its a remarkably sad fate for many families and friendships.
I hope this clarifies.
I'm with JT - both are right.
So you're saying that only .0120% of IBOs want to go Diamond? Because if both are right, then that's what logic would dictate.
Insider, I don't mean to bring this up, but I couldn't help to notice that you announced your permanent retirement from this site about five posts back, but you've commented on every one since.
Dawson - in many years as an IBO I have never personally encountered what your talk about, no - indeed, at times the opposite. Or should I clarify, I've never encountered anything like that any more than in any other endeavour - ie, when people change jobs, their circle of friends tends to change. When I was younger and competing at a high level in sport, I chose not to spend time with my friends who were spending their time drinking and partying to excess. When I quit my job to start a company, and suffered the inevitable time and money pressures that creates, many of my family members did not support me. Did I try to "bring them into the fold" and have them understand why I made the decision I did? Absolutely. Did we "grow apart" at the time - somewhat. Alienated? Absolutely not. None of this is "brainwashing" (which incidentally I do not believe exists) it's just a natural result of individual choices. Can/will IBOs grow apart from friends/family? Absolutely can happen. Alienated? Absolutely should not happen. Very very few of my friends when I started became IBOs, and they are ALL still friends. This is not to deny that his does happen, but it shouldn't, and is not an inherent part of the Amway/Quixtar business model. If some people incorporate it in their way of doing business - blame them, not the business model.
DI - are you saying that in life everyone who wants something should achieve it and actually does what is necessary to achieve it? I've wanted to lose 20 pounds for a couple of years now. Want it a lot. I'm still not doing what is necessary to achieve it. And I don't consider the gym I joined and rarely attended to be the ones to blame. I'd say that the great majority of IBOs want to be Diamonds, but very few of them are willing to do the work necessary for the time necessary to achieve it. Some stop early, some are content at lower levels. I have a colleage who has been an Emerald for some 15-20 years. They've always wanted to be a Diamond, but they spent most of the last 2 decades pursuing other interests and enjoying being Emerald. Now, for whatever reason, they've decided to pursue Diamond.
YBF - I think it was Churchill who said a fanatic is one who can't change his mind. I changed my mind :-). Just got a little p***ed off at the inanity of some of the posts.
Insider, you may very well be correct. I was simply drawing a logical conclusion from the statement that both ThisBizNow and the tape quoted above are "right."
Specifically, the tape treats achieving Diamond as an inevitability based on desire and staying in the business. That's the main problem here.
No problem, Insider. I'm the same way with "Revenge of the Sith," especially now that they're showing it on HBO. I'm like, "Okay, this is the LAST time I'm watching this," and then Yoda fires up that tiny lightsaber and all bets are off.
DI - I interpret "sticks in there" as including necessary work, not just hanging around as a seminar junkie.
YBF - that reminds me .... still haven't gotten around to seeing that ... II helped a little, but not yet fully recovered from I .... :-/
The actual quote by Churchill is: "A fanatic is one who won't change his mind and change the subject" - being you're such a stickler for accuracy there "Insider"
If inane comments from us "idiots" (you know, one who are actually in Q*, BWW, WWdb, Interbiz, etc. )get you all "pi**ed off", you need to take a good hard look in mirror. The tangent/spin game was being played long before you ever arrived on the scene. :)
Beat that "I haven't seen it so it can't be true" dead horse all you want. It isn't going to magically get up and win the Kentucky Derby.
So you're saying that only .0120% of IBOs want to go Diamond? Because if both are right, then that's what logic would dictate.
No! Please do not misrepresent my words. Of course, everyone WANTS to go Diamond. The point is that the .0120% WERE WILLING TO DO THE WORK that is required to go Diamond!
An Actual IBO - don't worry, inanity from the pro-quixtar side p***es me off just as much, probably more so.
Unofficial roll call:
Who here was willing to do the work to go Diamond? For how long? Who wasn't? If you were, why did you stop?
Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't it mathematically impossible for more than one in seven IBOs to be Diamonds? I thought "Diamond" meant six Q-12 Platinum legs, implying that any IBO could go Platinum, but not all of them could go diamond, since each diamond requires (at a minimum) six people in their downline.
Fair enough, Insider.
The fact that less than one in ten thousand has the tenacity to "do what it takes" to go diamond indicates that it is probably not only the IBOs inability to "do what it takes", but an inherent flaw in the "system".
insider's group may be different, although I don't know why people would follow a donkey's behind, based on how he acts here. But apparently his group operates differently in some regards, and teaching is a bit different, although I have read numerous posts from N21 IBOs who echo the same abuse as the other LOS.
Still, unless new pins keep breaking, these groups consist of a few who are making money, and the rest are losing money (or working their way up, investing in their future, or whatever you call it)
SparcVark,
You can simultaneously be a Platinum AND a Diamond, but it does take at least 25, and more realistically, 75 people to make a solid Platinum business, so there needs to be 150-450 people to make one Diamond. On that basis alone, the system can never support the money they claim for all people who sign up.
According to Forbes: http://www.forbes.com/lists/2005/54/Worth_15.html There are 346 Billionaires in America.
If you asked Americans: do you want $1 Billion (or more) could you find more than 2,900,000 to say yes they want it? (346/0.012% and it is less than 1% of current US population) How come only the 346 made it? I believe the answer is the same as above: they werent willing, or just flat out didnt, put in the work to get it.
JC: does the fact that only 0.0001% of Americans are billionaires mean you cannot be one? Because that is what you are implying by saying the diamonds/system is lying by saying you can be a diamond despite only "0.012% make it"?
Brad,
Of course you could find many who want to be a millionaire, billionaire, gazillionaire, whatever. That's all good, in fact Microsoft not only helped many achieve millionaire status, but many of their 3000 employees make a fine living working there.
Quixtar/amway's opportunity (because of the tools system) has left a trail of probably millions who lost money. You can say they quit, did not try hard enough or whatever, but many many of the IBOs who gave the business a decent amount of effort got nothing to show for it but credit card debt or bankruptcy, by following upline advice.
Yes, they could have shunned the advice, but upline reminds you that you should not reinvent the wheel, just duplicate.
Brad, you said you were a 1000 pin and you did not make money. I have to guess that means none of your downline made money either. So how you even prove teh system works yourself?
If youre saying you didn't do enough then I have to ask you why not? If the system actually did what was advertised, you'd have to be insane not to do what it takes right?
Look Brad, it's this simple. Yeah I want to be a billionare, but I don't have the drive, ability, or whatever to work for it. But what about all the folk here who did try real hard to build the biz. What about those who drove 4800+ miles just to get one downline in? Did they not work hard enough? The point is, that many of the people here DID try very hard only to come up very short. If they exerted as much time and energy into something different they might've fairde much better. The opportunity is not all it's cracked up to be. There is no possible way for every single IBO in Quixtar to be Diamond at the same time. It's mathmatically impossible.
Brad,
Of the 2.9 million who "want" to be a billionaire.
-How many TRULY want it?
-How many are BSing you?
-How many are somewhere in between?
-And how would you honestly know in any way??
To use the "do the work" line of reasoning, you're making a huge leap in assuming everyone involved has basically identical abilities, wants, circumstances, and life events happening to them.
Humans have way too many variables to try to compartmentalize them into a neat package answer.
Quixtar has more to do with luck than hard work. In my time in the business I was pretty successful, but eventually got sick of all the spin put on everything from tapes to meetings, to reasons why you need to showup just so people will see you. Especially all the fake people, luckily my upline was a good guy.
I've seen communication retards that have the maturity of 17 year olds build large businesses simply because they've gotten lucky with 1 or 2 people in their business who have alot of freinds that join up with them.
I've seen the masses who I knew would never build anything worship the ground the upline leaders walk on.
My favorite quote from the business is "Don't make it your obstacle from building the business make it your reason."
IE. The fact you can't afford the 350 dollar function weekend(trip,hotel,food) is the reason you need to come to function. Talk about logic
So the guys I'd recruited in the business who were young 20's somethings working hard and going to college just trying to pay their PV, little did they know Quixtar costs 10grand a year just to be CORE.
where on earth did you get the $10K figure from???
Lets not forget the out right lies that were used by our upline. We worked the business under the assumption that the pins we were listening to made their money from the movement of product. In fact as we became more seasoned we did ask who was making money from the tapes, books and functions. From my direct up to our Diamond, Double, Triple and Crown we were told that everyone paid the same and that no one was making money on the tools. It seems common knowledge now that their is profit, sometimes obscene profit in the BSM's. Had we known this we would have worked the business in an entirely different fashion. We would have focused on becoming incredible speakers, promoters, and consumate liars. No one in this business wanted Diamond more then we did, and I still have my planners from 9 years of doing everything possible to achieve that end. $48,000 later, a divorce, and the alienation of every one I knew or loved before the busness I looked at myself and realized that I had been deceived, hoodwinked and laid out on the sand to perish. It has taken 7 years to get the foul taste out of my mouth and remarry and get out of debt. For those that think this thing is good I hope you find a propellar to walk into.
Every time a Platinum is created, you have 74 IBO's at a lesser volume, assuming 100 PV/month average volume. Multiply that by 6 for a Diamond. Of course, "everyone" can't be a Diamond in any instant of time, but anyone could become a Diamond over time.
Emily, the fortune 500 companies like quixtar because you sell their stuff. No other reason.
I guess both of them are right.
Posted by: JT | June 29, 2006 3:11 PM