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May 31, 2006
In Their Own Words - 4
By Xanadustc in Their Own Words
In this clip, we get to see some of the parenting skills take root as Larry Winters teaches his kids about work ethic:
» Winters Kids (mp3) (From BWW151 – The Badge of Honor):
Larry: Real fast, for all the new people, tell ‘em what happens if you study hard, and go get a J-O-B. What happens if you end up- tell them what happens if you get a job?
Ricky: You have no time, and you sit in a cubical and have no fun at all.
Larry: What happens when you have a job, Steven?
Steven: You’re broke and your life sucks!
Larry: That’s my boys!
(Note, I edited four seconds of audience screaming at the end and replaced with 0.5 seconds of silence.)
This just sickens me. Let's forget the fact that work is a Biblical mandate for just a second and consider the purely social circumstances of this. Larry has successfully trained his children that work is meaningless. He has trained them that no one ever succeeds with a job, despite the fact that the whole culture is based on this trend with the exception of a few anomalies. The world is not totally broke, but persons can be if they are not wise and disciplined in their spending.
Next, let us consider our time at work. My life does not suck because I work, quite the opposite, my work allows me time to use my God-given skills to do something. But on top of that, I have many good friends at work that I can talk to and hang out with while we are engaging in our responsibilities.
UPDATE
I need to clarify a point here. Thanks to Brad for bringing it up. When I said, "Larry has successfully trained his children that work is meaningless" above, I thought it was obvious that I was talking about a job, but there has been some confusion.
For those curious, this whole tape was about a "good work ethic", but Larry constantly defined a good work ethic as being CORE in BWW while simultaniously de-edifying the J.O.B. That is the point I was making, I was under the impression that the context of the paragraph was clear, but I wanted to clarify anyway.
Comments
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This is so sad...and if you think you're broke with a JOB, try having that job while you run yourself ragged and line Larry's pockets with your SOT and function money.
Larry should LOVE jobs. Without the thousands of jobs held by his monions, he'd be broker than they are.
If the sins of the father will be visited upon the sons (assuming lack of repentance), I'm real glad not to be Larry's kids.
This is absolutely insane. It's impossible to believe that someone would ever teach their children that hard work isn't a panacea to life long fulfillment. Disillusionment is meant to start later in life during the confusing teenage years where your parents have ignored and marginalized you. And all your hopees for success in life lay in a muddy puddle of dreams and the old solice you find are in Dilbert comics and movies by Mike Judge. That father is disgusting!
I know a number of people, including myself, and even diamonds (Dr Stuart Menn comes to mind), who continue with "work" outside of A/Q because they enjoy it. It's not an either/or, it's a matter of freedom of choice.
Your Comments are not true at all. It is just like this site to always see the bad vs. the good. You pulled a CD or thought of a Diamond out of context again. What Larry has taught his boys is that hard work is everything when you do it for your self and not behind a desk of a company that at liberty can just let you go. If you knew this you could see it personally when he takes his boys to the motocross track and they practice until they get it right all day. You do not know Larry and I doubt you have ever even met him. If you want to see him and what I am referring to you can see him often at the Local Race track in Raleigh. He is all about hard work, but doing it in something that will return to you the effort you put into it. Your Comments are wrong based on a few lines you pulled off the CD. You forgot the first half of the talk where he talked about working your guts out and you left out the speakers he had on stage ten minutes before this talk was recorded. That talk also was about Work ethic by Alan. Your site again is a smear campaign for your beliefs and Cleary does not show both sides of the story. The reason why Larry has what he has is because he worked hard for a short period of time in a vehicle that worked vs. working so so hard in a job for 50 years. That is the difference. Get your facts straight. If you want the real story why don’t you try to meet Larry and I am sure you will see with your own eyes. Also he is a great person.
John,
Welcome to the kool-aid club. I have that tape from alan, too. In fact, It is analyiszed on my site if it is the one I am thinking of.
That is not pulled out of context in any way, it is an isolated part at the very begining of the tape.
Let me ask you these:
1. how much money are YOU clearing after your expenses?
2. How long have you been in?
3. How many people make it to the Diamond level?
4. What is the retention rate?
5. How do you respond to trained people who agree this is a cult?
6. Why do you make preseumptions about me, you say that I don't know Larry. How do you know that? I have sat across a dinner table with EDC's more than once!
7. How do you reconcile that this is the very tape that I pull out a full 10 mintues of Larry twisting Bible verses out of context to convince people that BWW is the only path to success?
8. Do you know me?
thanks,
X
John, what you wrote doesn't change my mind at all. I've been both an employee and self employed, and actually, I prefer to have a JOB. I know the potential to make more money is there if I work for myself, but the risk is a lot higher, and the benfit package (aka medical insurance) is a lot cheaper and better from my employer!
Any way you spin it, Larry Winters is wrong. There are a lot of people, myself included, who are happy, fulfilled, and not broke at our jobs. Maybe one day I might be self employed again, but right now, I'm much happier working my job. And to teach children that I'm a broke, unhappy loser, and if they choose my lifestyle they too will be broke, unhappy losers is sick and wrong.
Is it not obvoious that Larry Winters has a job. So does Britt, Yager, Puryear & all the rest. They are a fiercly competitive business. They must always seek to speak at more & more functions, mislead more & more people, financially steal from more & more downline. Remember their own words: "If you want to be successful, you must plug into the system." Now if IBOs, must plug into the system, then there must always be a system. Therefore, they will always working. Not only does he have a job. He has a job that forces him to constantly exaggerate, deceive & worry about someone else cutting into his profits.
It's all part of the diamond plan. They make a lot of money selling you tools, but at the same time convince you that you are doing what's right for your life, and more importantly, that if you fail, it is your own shortcomings instead of the "system".
...And once again, a pro-Quixtar IBO gets his comments posted, UNCENSORED, on a blog that he wants everyone to believe is nothing more than a vehicle for smearing the business.
Some people just don't want to get it.
PW
Another diamond working in addition to diamondship: Dr Jim Burns, BWW.
It is quite a stretch to assume "work" solely applies to "job". They are not always equivalent. Not to mention, what "jobs" were mentioned in the bible more than such positions as: servants, land lords, royalty, and master/apprentice situations? "Jobs" often equal "work", but "work" does not have to equal "job" thus opinions about "jobs" cannot be extrapolated to be equal opinions of "work" (biblical or not)
And the cult issue again X. You have Hassan, and that's it. We have been over this before. You dont have "experts" you have "expert" if that. My opinion, you have a business man out to make money off of his opinion that this business is a cult.
Brad,
We have not been over this before, you keep failing to respond to his criteria. FYI, I do have more than one, there are many, it is just that Hassen is good enough, highly credible, has research, and a resource site. Never mind that I have multiple links on my blog, spoken with persons that have no webpresence and testify that it IS a cult.
If you want more diamonds that still work, John Sestina and Hal Newball are more...so what. They all have jobs, burning the candle all the time. The difference is that when I go home at night, myu job stays there. I don't turn every social event and meeting into a business meeting or a prospect hunt. How many IBOs are getting 'involved' in councils, social events, activities for the hidden motivation of prospecting? When I started doing some work on these lines, my upline said, "Great, a nice place to contact". I later got a post card from one of the Silvers and above where I have a note that says "good work mentoring one kid, but what about the thousands you could mentor in Quixtar?". What a bunch of crap!
Brad, are you going to try to defend the type of sick crap Larry Winters was teaching his child? You don't have to defend everything about BWW, you know. You are allowed to say that some prevalent practices are wrong. After all, you are an independent business owner.
rara, i am pointing out the fallacy in the logic here that because Larry believes jobs are a dead end that X can extrapolate it to mean he "trained his children that work is meaningless"
X has with this sentence transitioned the talk about a JOB to appear like a talk about WORK. LARRY NEVER SAID WORK, he said "job".
It is deception that John, even in his "Quix kool-aidness" picked up on. And you wish to remain ignorant to this blatent twist on words and meanings? That's your deal.
Brad,
Isn't the whole point of diamond that you will have both time and money, so you don't have to work, whereas with a job, you have to work and as Larry said, you won't have any fun. If all you can grab onto is X's *alleged* misinterpretation of LW's words and can't see what LW said for the dangerous garbage it is, then that's your deal.
Brad, you have a job. Are you broke, and does your life suck? If you (or anyone else who has a job) answer no to these questions, then it's Larry who's being ignorant or downright deceptive.
I don't even have a job; I'm living on a grad student's pay, but I am not broke and my life is awesome, not because of material things (which I generally have no problem with) but because I am content and satisfied and I'm not waiting till I become a "millionaire" before I can enjoy life.
X,
(Kool-aid club) What is that suppose to mean. I would rather it be XS-Club. Anyway you think everyone in our business is evil. Do remember this is a Critic site and nothing posted here is True. We all know what a Critic is. I should not even come to this site but a new IBO told me about it again so guess what with the IBO I am sitting down and typing this back to you so he can see what we have to deal with. It is like fans yelling at Berry Bonds. Sure he has critics but they do not bother him. Your just negative. Where is the good parts of the business, u know they are out there. There are so many that you are over looking that out weigh the bad. Well to answer just a few of your questions.
I am sure you will alienate this as well. Watch!
You’re Questions
Let me ask you these:
1. how much money are YOU clearing after your expenses?
1. A.) Last month in the month of April we cleared $4825.23. You might scream and say what about your expenses. Well most months our expenses are about $70 to $120 but yes some months are up to say $1000 if you through in Building tools or Travel and such. O For your Evil Tool business money in April was $423 Profit last month.
2. How long have you been in?
2. A.) Well just over 4 years.
3. How many people make it to the Diamond level?
3. A.) Those who choose to, but like MBL or the NFL you can keep pushing on without a coach saying you’re done. Being real I would say not many go diamond but your pulling that out since few are willing to do the work and it does take work. What is cool is last years Achieve Magazine I saw many that did go Diamond and a few of them I saw smoked past me and got started after me. I started the business not to go Diamond but to go Platinum and make at least $32,000 like in the Plan.
4. What is the retention rate?
4. A.) Retention Rate is better than the social ring at most good churches or gym memberships. If you find out why one is doing the business and has a real reason why like not wanting to send there kids to day care and they will truly let you help them then you find a good retention.
5. How do you respond to trained people who agree this is a cult?
5. A.) Easy come to a open meeting or a major function and see for yourself. See what your Team is really about and why your upline is really doing all of this if not your just saying it is a cult because of what you saw on TV or heard about it. See for yourself if your serious about finding out or just keep doing what you’re doing if your happy with the results your getting in life. Try to get past the money aspect. Even if the money was off the charts good or bad this allows people to freedom to do things here that a job just does not allow. That is silly question.
6. Why do you make presumptions about me, you say that I don't know Larry. How do you know that? I have sat across a dinner table with EDC's more than once!
6.A.) I am not making a presumption. Fact is if you really knew Larry you would not make those remarks and that is a fact. Off stage and behind closed doors he does stuff that empowers and benefits people in a positive ways. You can not cut that down. That is why I know you do not know him. EDC's I doubt your EDC’s were any of the Winter TEAM. Sorry that is just that.
7. How do you reconcile that this is the very tape that I pull out a full 10 mintues of Larry twisting Bible verses out of context to convince people that BWW is the only path to success?
7.A.) Larry does not twist the bible at all. That is completely crazy. Well you can believe what you want and type it here but Larry even says there are many paths to success and encourages people everywhere to follow them. This just happens be the vehical that empowered and helped him. I too have to say it has help me more that it has hurt me. I think about it sometimes when like in anything in life. You are not always winning. There are ups and downs and yes I have had them while in this business but guess what I too have gotten back up from lows and highs. Anyone can if they have the right attitude.
8. Do you know me?
8.A) No I do not know you from Adam but I can say I pray for you to find something that you can empower people to build there life in a positive way and give hope of a better day rather than pulling hope away and from someone.
Hope this answers your Questions. I am sure your will ask more questions but I doubt I am coming back to this site for good reasons. This site if full of anger and I do not like having that part of my life. I wish you the best in all you do. Go out in Succeed in something. Misery love company and I guys that is a reason why your here on this site. You can over come that however with success in something and it does not have to be Quixtar. Once you start succeeding in something you will mostly not find the time to want to post on this site anymore.
Oh, and by the way, all you IBOs that have jobs, Larry and his kids are insulting YOU (in case you didn't notice) while you are there sucking up to him, gazing at him in adoration and wanting to be like him, or defending him.
Brad,
your statement "X has with this sentence transitioned the talk about a JOB to appear like a talk about WORK. LARRY NEVER SAID WORK, he said "job"."
You are correct by that interpretation. I did NOT mean to imply that in the phrase all work is meaningless in Larry's eyes, check the context. It is all about getting a job, hence, when i said "work is meaningless", I was implying Jobs. Perhaps I could have been clearer on that, thank you, but my context has been on the J.O.B., but the univeral trend of work. My point still stands: Larry has trained his children that GOING TO WORK (I hope that is better) is meaningless.
Now for John, I will ask you a few more:
New questions:
1. How do you respond to the FACTS!!!! that we are listing, you state:
Do remember this is a Critic site and nothing posted here is True
That is a little bit of a generalization, isn't it. Are you telling me that not one shread of a comment here is true? Does that include or exclude your comments?
2. You speak of your profits, very impressive, you must have reached the Platinum level at least. What is the NET CASH FLOW of your business. It is nice that YOU are profiting, now, how about your downline? Are they all profiting too, or are they putting their hard earned money into yours and your uplines tool profits?
3. you say:
3. How many people make it to the Diamond level?
3. A.) Those who choose to, but like MBL or the NFL you can keep pushing on without a coach saying you’re done. Being real I would say not many go diamond but your pulling that out since few are willing to do the work and it does take work. What is cool is last years Achieve Magazine I saw many that did go Diamond and a few of them I saw smoked past me and got started after me. I started the business not to go Diamond but to go Platinum and make at least $32,000 like in the Plan.
EEERRRNNNTTTT Wrong answer, the correct answer is about 1 in 14,000, the source for that lie? QUIXTAR!!!!!
Please try again.
5. You say:
4. What is the retention rate?
4. A.) Retention Rate is better than the social ring at most good churches or gym memberships. If you find out why one is doing the business and has a real reason why like not wanting to send there kids to day care and they will truly let you help them then you find a good retention.
Would you please answer the QUESTION and not pussy-foot around? That is the most ridiculous answer I have ever seen!
6. Why do you STILL make presumptions about me? I have judged Larries words with the Bible. Larry is WORNG, period. The tape that this quote comes from has a 10 minute section of Larry twisting the Bible all over the place to convince people to commit to the BWW team. In regards to your comment that Larry does not twist the bible, I would have to go to the forum on that one and take it verse for verse. The theology he is pulling from is the apostic Word-Faith movement which derived the teaches from a hybrid between the mind science cults and New Thought cults. Look it up.
You say:
8. Do you know me?
8.A) No I do not know you from Adam but I can say I pray for you to find something that you can empower people to build there life in a positive way and give hope of a better day rather than pulling hope away and from someone.
Umm....I think you are a bit misguided. The only hope I am pulling away from someone is the false hopes which line the uplines pocket by promising things that are rarely ever delivered.
John, good luck to you. Have fun in this life, if you follow the road you are on, you might find it goes somewhere you will not like. Good luck to you.
X
P.S. Matthew 7:21-23: 21"Not everyone who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter.
22"Many will say to Me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles?'
23"And then I will declare to them, 'I never knew you; DEPART FROM ME, YOU WHO PRACTICE LAWLESSNESS.'
Funny, almost all IBO's have jobs don't they?
Hey! xanadustc!
You Said...
3. How many people make it to the Diamond level?
John Said:
3. A.) Those who choose to, but like MBL or the NFL you can keep pushing on without a coach saying you’re done. Being real I would say not many go diamond but your pulling that out since few are willing to do the work and it does take work. What is cool is last years Achieve Magazine I saw many that did go Diamond and a few of them I saw smoked past me and got started after me. I started the business not to go Diamond but to go Platinum and make at least $32,000 like in the Plan.
YOU SAID:
EEERRRNNNTTTT Wrong answer, the correct answer is about 1 in 14,000, the source for that lie? QUIXTAR!!!!!
Please try again.
I SAID:
Diamonds IBO : more than $250,000 a year...
1 in 14 000 ..... woooowwww!!!
When will you do that with your job... how many people will do that with their jobs... 1 out of 50,000... 1 out of 100,000.... working more then 50 hours a week...
Wooow!! I will be a diamond and be free... You don't want to... you want to be the 13999 others.... too bad for you...
Work hard and pay your bills and pray !!!
Wealthy:
Apparently you are an over the edge quixtar IBO, so there is no point in me wasting my time typing this but what the heck. You seem to be picking majorly on xanadustc without knowing any facts. 1st of all if you read other blogs from him it would seem that he was pretty far in the buisness and probably knows more than you. 2nd if you were going to be so free you would be reading or listening to a cd right now instead of posting comments but I guess your upline didnt cover that part of the brainwashing yet. What I want to know is (and it was covered earlier) how do you consider traveling the country only to go from one function to another in order to speak just to make a dollar bill. Funny but that sounds kinda like a job to me. It's almost dare I say chasing a dollar bill. Next where in the heck does religion and bringing people to christ have anything to do with buisness? Last I checked buisness and religion are 2 seperate entities. I am not anti-christian but i get annoyed when people in my own upline say that they don't belive it is possible to make it in the winters team without devoting your life to christ. Wierd. Oh and finally how about the total mind control of all time, a term they use as crosslining. Heard of it? It means that crossline, which is the majority of the buisness are not allowed to talk to each other on a personal level unless a common upline is present. Does that sound at all like control to ANYONE?!!!! 2 adults cant talk to each other unless someone else is there with them. I would rather start my own buisness and be free than be in this buisness and be controlled. I don't think our founding fathers would be too proud of quixtar and their control, when they fought so hard for our freedom
After-thought:
onemore thing, I'm getting really sick of hearing all the IBO's talk about people with a job like they are a loser, if you're typing it YOU probably have a job yourself. IBO's have insulted people like my dad who is a pipe fitter and is happy with it, but they think that he is a loser for doing it, If these people were such bible following christians then wouldnt they be caring and not speak down about people who work, especially considering they actually contribute to the economy? Just a thought
"I'm getting really sick of hearing all the IBO's talk about people with a job like they are a loser..."
All IBOs? I am an IBO but I do not think that having a job makes you a loser. You have a job to make a living. Money, is reason #1 why people go to a job, not because they like it by necessity. Having a job is like surviving. Why? You live paycheck after paycheck, year after year until you retire or die and have to start from zero every month! At least if it was residual monthly income regardless of the fact that you are paid on an hourly/daily rate (even 6/7/8/9/etc $ per hour) but it is not! That is why it does not appeal to me. I used to have a job, on contract at Yellow Pages (I live in Canada), but now I am up in the air hoping to get a job. Personally, I do not have the job mentality. I do not want to work untill 65 and save money if that can be done comfortably without doing overtime or getting continuoush raises for the same amount of 40 work hours a week. For me, it just doesn't make the cut. I do not like overtime, I do not like to be limited by the amount I make, I do not want to be told when to take vacations, I do not want to be told how long the vacations are supposed to be, in short, I do not like to be limited in how I make money. If that was too harsh a statement for you it is meant to be.
"If these people were such bible following christians then wouldnt they be caring and not speak down about people who work, especially considering they actually contribute to the economy? Just a thought"
Again, why do you think they are speaking against people who work? They are speaking about how they dreamt of being financially and choice free by making money in another way that is legal still. Here, I do not want to have again a discussion about the legality of this business. Obviosuly, it is legal in Canada. If you want to know how to take advanatage of this opportunity, inform yourself and above all, act upon that information.
About people contributing to the economy, this business is no exception. It contributes to sustaining businesses who take advanatge of this program (Quixtar is just an e-commerce portal, not the program itself that makes use of Quixtar) by having IBOs promoting/using their products to others/themselves. Thus, businesses will continue to manufacture products to a client base. In turn, this program is keeps on functioning. It is a symbiotic relationship.
Oh man this should be fun
First of all, again let me say that I am talking about IBO's in general. Of course I understand that there are good and bad people in all areas of life including quixtar. But since you sound like your speaking directly from a cd I doubt you'll hear any of this. Okay, I know the biz works, that was never a question, and if you would read other things I've posted instead of just babbling like a maniac, then you would hear my point of view. The biz works the plan is great I don't question that. What I question is the system, and I think that is where most people's questions come from. The problem is that these people believe whole heartedly that they are doing gods work by building this buisness. They believe that since they were contacted that it was a sign from god to build the buisness. But considering the closest occupation this biz is to anything is advertising, then it's just a matter of time before you are contacted and not gods will. Otherwise that would mean every time I see a commercial for tampons that I should run out and buy a box because god wants me to. (BTW I am not mocking god in any way, I am mocking what a majority of IBO's believe) Isn't it also true that if you are in the winters team, that it is a hidden ministry? Well I don't remember that being in the plan, but maybe I missed that part. The problem stems from the fact that these people put everyones buisness and personal lives in there hands and believe it is there job to solve everything. If you need examples I can give you plenty, but I'm tired and don't want to type all of them. But do me one favor if you will, I want you to write out all the "rules" that they give you and look at it from an outside source and tell me if it sounds crazy or not. Finally, if you want real facts why not check out reliable sources, maybe dateline, or cnbc, or are you so mindless that you will believe everything that you hear from these people no matter what they tell you. Good luck with your buisness, I'm gonna start my own buisness. Why don't you write back when you get some real facts, so I don't have to waste my life reading your long winded garbage. Oh and IF THAT WAS TOO HARSH A STATEMENT, IT WAS MEANT TO BE.
S Swiper:
Want facts !!!
Better start reading...
Read this...
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0968976344/sr=8-2/qid=1150555165/ref=pd_bbs_2/104-2036276-3047110?%5Fencoding=UTF8
Written by this guy:
http://www.future-trends.com/resume.html
http://www.future-trends.com/resume.html
I think i will listen to him instead of listening to you...
Have a nice day my friend...
Wealthy- Do you read anything on this website before typing or do you just spit out the first thing that comes to your brainwashed mind? I guess I'm gonna have to go over this again because no one listens. I HAVE NO PROBLEM WITH THE BUISNESS. Man I'm sick of saying that!!! Yes it all works I don't question that, I like the idea of the buisness, but from a passive income sense and not going out building the buisness night after night, and then spending time with family only for your upline to expect you to be contacting your family. That's not passive income, but they tell you that this buisness is passive, hmmmm. I do believe though that no matter what they do the buisness will crumble again, just like amway. But that's opinion and nothing more.
But if you really are interested in hearing my point of view and aren't just button happy then listen. I was in the winter's team. I know some teams are different, I am basing this on my personal experience and that's all. 1st if you've ever been to a function run by Larry then you'll find out that on Sunday morning they have a non-denominational christian service, but here's the funny thing, they slowly get you to convert you beliefs to christianity and eventually give your life to christ. But that's what you think you are doing, but if you study christianity they are on a sandy foundation. If you want more info on bible verses and how they are using the bible for their purposes and not how it was meant to be then I suggest you ask someone by the name of xanadustc. Because I don't know as much about the bible but he is extremely knowledgable and makes sense, and can give you a better answer. But my problem is that they never tell you that this is actually a ministry, and they outgoingly say that it is a ministry after you have been "in" for a while. Next I have a problem with any buisness that ends up making families have a tougher time getting along. My family and I got along very well before the biz, but during it, they told me that my family was a bunch of dream stealers and that they were trying to tear me down. Then on top of that they want you to always be contacting your family and friends, and only hang out with them if you have a buisness reason. That's insane. If you can't figure out how insane it all is for yourself then I am sorry for you. Next, They give you a few people that you are allowed to associate with in the buisness, but you aren't ever allowed to have any in depth conversation with a crossline unless you have a common upline with you. That's sick and distorted. They tell you in the beginning that you will only be working the buisness 5-10 hrs a week, but that's not true either is it? You see, amway told a bunch of lies and they fell and started a new buisness (quixtar) but they just tell different lies, same people. SO to clarify, I like the idea behined the buisness but whenever you get people involoved that believe they are doing gods work it always ends up a disaster, that I would rather avoid. Oh and in response to your book you recommended, let it be known that anyone can write a book about anything, wealthy could write a book on how amazing quixtar is but that doesn't mean that anyone is going to read it. Sorry this post was so long, but SOME PEOPLE don't ever read before they post, and just get excited about typing buttons.
Having attended several of LWs conferences and personal night owls, I can honestly say that he was solely talking about JOBS. He didn't say that people who have jobs are losers or stupid or THEY suck. He is only references JOBS.
S Swiper in the same respect that you reference his "system" and not the Quixtar business plan.
I too am in Larry's group, and to my knowledge the Sunday service is ALWAYS optional. They actually stress that, and also offer different denominational churches in the surronding area (see your upline).
Speaking of bible verses: When I was really young a verse that stuck in my head directly from the bible was "build your business before you build your home". Now I know that goes along with hard work ethic, etc. And I am NOT a bible guru, but it didn't say "build a job before you build your house".
Never in my life has anyone told me how to start a business of my own and offered "a way" to build it. Like you swiper, I agree, it shouldn't be all about the "ministry". But being a Christian is a way of life and a belief system, not a religion. You either belive it or you don't!
I have always maintained that when I go to a conference I am not going to agree with everything and everyone, but I will get what I need to get to move my Quixtar business foward. Simply because those that are speaking are doing it or have done it.
Just a side note: Whoever runs this blog, what sort of income do you receive on the advertising? Since you seem so inclined to ask IBOs what they make, my question, if you dare, is what do you make from this site? Are you making as much as other sites that offer the same service? What is the "average" quixtar blog site make?
Just curious
JJ
JJ, the authors of this blog, including the creator do not make any money off the site. It goes solely for web-design, hosting, and advertising.
If 'religion' is so optional, why does Larry constantly say that you can not make it without believing in God? Why does he have 10+ minute scripture bends on the Saturday night meeting?
Xan,
Thanks for the response, I appreciate that! As for Larry's "10 minute scripture bend" as far as I have gathered from them, he is only stating where he derives his personal spirtual strength from and relates his own experience of that to the obvious success he has had in this business.
Also, you make it sound as though believing in God is a bad thing.
I personally, even before this business team, have learned many great lessons from Pastors, and other believers of the Christian faith. For myself personally, it keeps my own standards in check. In many of the blogs on here I read an outcrying (aside from LW)of personal standards and ethics, when it comes to this business. And honestly what better standards are there than those of the teachings from the Bible? In a world where you are told you are here by mistake, do what's feels good...etc..it is nice to know the personal standards of the people I work with, either upline or downline, are the same as mine. I am talking about how safe you feel when people are around...I never have to question the morals of the people I am in business with and I can feel completely at ease with my family hanging around these people as well.
That is just how I feel, and it is my opinion. Honestly, I know that no matter what I say on here others will either doubt my sincereity, or will pick apart word for word what I have said. Bottom line is, that no matter what is said, you won't be able to change my mind, nor will I be able to change yours. And I totally respect that! I do enjoy reading some things on here and use them to explain to new folks.
Apologize for such a long blog, I will try to keep subsequent blogs shorter. Thanks for reading and responding.
JJ
JJ,
You must be new to reading this? I am a Christian Apologist. My problem with Larry's scripture bends is that he is teaching a totally false gospel. Larry as well as most BWW Diamonds are adherents to Word-Faith which is an apostic faith. Without getting into long details, it is:
*Founded on cultic principles (mind science and new thought)
*Exults man to the level of God
*Teaches deism in that there are "created principles" that everyone can tap into.
Now, let us examine again Larry's position: If he is the group leader and he is saying that believing in his god is the only way to make it, how does that not make him trying to convert everyone to his religion?
Now, this being said, Larry gives the admonishion to all those 'new converts' in the Sunday morning sessions to use their faith to build their business.
Those are some of my concerns. If you have not read it, I address my many other concerns on my blog:
www.bwwsot.blogspot.com
Xan,
Thanks again for the response. You seem to versed in the religion side of things very well. I admit I am not. But I am a person who doesn't walk blindly by faith. As far as being "converted" I have never felt, probably because I already considered myself a Christian. Personally I have never felt that LW views himself as above God or his equal. He does have a huge responsiblity however to those in his group. Many people that enter this arena or endeavor come in with no sense personal ethics, let alone business ethics. I saw it as a way for that person to tie in to a "system" based on the principals of the Bible. For the rest of us, it should ALWAYS be our due diligence to research what is said, either in business or spiritually. Larry quotes the Bible verse for verse, I in turn wrote those down and read them for myself and made the decision. Like I said I am not nearly as well versed as you obviously on religion, but the Bible is the Bible. It is there for the common man to read and decipher for himself, and occasionally with the help of a Pastor, Cardinal, etc. That is my take on it.
Thanks again for the response..I enjoy it.
JJ
JJ,
Please, please, please examine the message. Larry is quoting total misinterpretations. To the untrained eye, it does indeed sound like he makes sense, but please allow me the latitude to explain a few faults in your approach to scripture:
1. The Bible is not a book to be interpreted by any wind of doctrine. It is a concise book written by the Living God. As any book, it has a direct intent. Now, the intent we may pull out may make sense to us (or those listening to us), but if the intent does not align with the intent of the author, you are receiving a different message. It is not my interpretation that makes it write, it is the intent of God that makes it right.
2. The Bible does not need to be dicphered, it is (for the most part) a clear and conscise book. There are areas that do not make much sense at times (particularly if you do not know the history or customs of the day), but regardless, the Bible is not a series of one-liners like Winters team appraoch it as. That is certainly destructive.
3. I do not have that list of verses in from of me, but I have placed many hours of study in this movement. I can pinpoint a few verses quickly:
Beloved, I pray that you will be healthy and prosperous, even as your sould prospers
Larry treats this verse as it is God talking to you and commanding all to be wealthy. In reality, this is simply the customary way to write a letter in that part of the world at that time; no different than the often repeated "Oh, King, Live Forever" in many OT books, or how we preface letters today with "Dear, so and so".
Do not be snared by the words of your mouth
This verse is often quoted to 'speak into existence what you want', if you read the context in the Bible, this verse is about co-signing a loan!
There are many more verses, but this is getting too long already.
Your comment that Larry does not view himself as God is worth commenting on...He will not do it directly, but again, he is teaching Deism here, not Christianity. Deism is the teaching that there is a god who created everything including the 'spiritual principles' by which all things, including that god is bound. Theism (of which Christianity belongs) teaches a personal God which can and will interact with the creation. Larry's view is subtle, but it is there in all of his talk about controlling events with his tongue and teaching you to do the same.
I give you these warnings:
1. There will be false prophets and teachers ariseing from the ranks of the church itself...you know them by their doctrine, which is an objective truth, not a subjective thought based on what you read (This principle is in 1 John).
2. Of the false prophets and teachers, some know what they are doing, others are not, but instead are decieved by their lusts. This was one of the seeds that Jesus talked about in the parable of the sower.
3. Following after money (which BWW teaches) is a path that leads many astray.
This is way too long. If you want to know more about Christianity, I have a website:
www.ourwalkinchrist.com
I have teachings, a blog, and a forum over there. You can ask away and myself or others will answer questions. This is a topic worthy of investigation.
Good luck!
The absolutes in the business have always scared me. Personally, I have fun at my job at times, and other times, it drives me nuts. But for the most part, I enjoy what I do and I enjoy the product I help to put out. I'm certainly not broke, and while I work 40 hours a week, my life certainly does not suck.
Posted by: dmm | May 31, 2006 4:37 PM