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May 17, 2006
In Their Own Words - 2
By Xanadustc in Their Own Words
In this little clip, Pam Winters tell us that “We do need a jet, and God will supply all our needs.”
We need a jet and God will provide (BWW151; Badge of Honor)
This is just the type of “give me the goods” theology the BWW system, and arguably some other motivational organizations, use in their tools.
When you have gotten to this level, chances are that God will have given you over to your lusts and desires (as per Romans 1:22-24). Pam does not need a jet any more than Joyce Myers needs another pair of long dangly earrings, but they will probably end up getting what they “need” anyway.
Comments
preachin the good news for dollars...that's what jesus and paul did right? =)
X, perhaps you know the location (on which CDs) it is said (paraphrased) "The "why" to build your business includes the freedom, the time with family, the education for kids, the peace of mind, and many intangibles. But unless you have something tangible, something you can shoot for that is not too far away, but is also not within your salary or a promotion, you will lose focus and fail at gaining the intangibles you desire deep down"
I recognize "material goods" are just the physical representation to appease the "want" and "desire" we as humans feel when those just represent intangibles such as "freedom" or "peace of mind" or "debt free" or "choice independent of money". Am i still greedy, or materialistic?
Not all are as saintly as you to focus only on intrinsic value as a drive for everything you do.
Brad,
Nothing wrong with wanting more, if it obtained honestly. When Pam says "God will provide", and she then goes out and buys the jet with tool profits, WITHOUT SAYING IT WILL COME FROM TOOL PROFITS, you earn the title of a lying cowardly (Mrs.) "kingpin".
Brad,
There's nothing wrong with striving for more.
Don't you find it ironic that the quixtar opportunity takes away (time and money) what the IBOs are striving to get more of?
Joecool18,
What is it you are asking for, more time and money with no effort?
Tex, I'm not saying you should get something for no effort.
I'm just point out that attending endless functions and listening to an endless list of tapes, you eat up your time and money, something that most IBO's want more of. Just making a point.
"What is it you are asking for, more time and money with no effort?"
No, I think like most former IBO's Joecool18 is probably wanting a reasonable expectation that if they put in some effort, maybe even a lot of effort that there will be time and money as the result. In reality, there are better odds with the lottery or working a JOB than becoming involved with Quixtar and their sanctioned tool systems.
For those who say don't quit, just stay in and try to change the status quo: Look what has happened to those that have tried like Andy Andrews. The Kingpins will not allow their tool profits to watered down too much and they've got Quixtar in their back pocket to make sure that doesn't happen.
Tell me how it helped your group when they announced FAA points or that there would be another huge bonus for the larger pins? How would it have helped if they had simply lowered prices or increased bonuses for lower pins making them more profitable early on? As long as they have you listening to CDs, going to functions, and buying all their tools, there will never be change in Quixtar. There is no real apparatus make it happen.
Good job Brad! Way to defend the status quo!
Kendall,
Andy Andrews was part of a group that wanted to set up an illegal pyramid, why do you use him as a good example?
Kendall,
"Odds" and chance are not defining metrics in business.
Clearly you are angry or passionate, but perhaps you have some facts, figures, or proven statistics to prove your point? There is an absence of this from those passionately against the opportunity.
Brad,
Just like "odds and chance" are not metrics in business, neither are lies and deception. But this is exactly what we have with the lying cowardly "kingpins".
Odds and chance do not define any business venture, but they can go a long way in helping someone get a clearer look. If I'm looking at two fast food franchises that have equal start-up costs, and in one circular it states 75% of restaurants stay open after five years, and in the other it states 95% stay open after five, does it define the two ventures? Of course not, because there are other factors. But it certainly gives me a good starting point to ask why one is significantly more successful then the other.
With Quixtar, the numbers are not that great. 2/3 of all IBOs quit every year, and 50% of then within their first year. Average income is $115/month, and while you have to figure in all those that do little or nothing, you also have to figure in those diamonds who make hundreds of thousands a year. Less then 1 in 225 IBOs make it to platinum, and less then 1 in 14,000 make it to diamond. Do these numbers tell the whole story? Again, of course not, but it makes we ask why are they, in my opinion, so poor?
Yes, ask the question. But the reverberation of negative on the web makes it a poor place for good perspective, IMO.
dmm,
Good points. Gosh Brad, you seem to be doing better in this forum when you go away than when you start typing.
Brad,
I think the figures dmm gave you came from A/Q. Facts are facts, internet or no internet.
Tex, it is the interpretation of those facts, and the cause/effect applied to them that the internet affects. As DMM said, numbers alone are nothing, it is the interpretation of those numbers that provides the "facts" of the business. The internet has reverberated the notion that the average income of an "active" IBO explains how systems don't work. You and insider went through this: by not taking into account the difference between "active" as the corp explains it, and CORE as the systems explain it leads to misinterpretation of this statistics and it is spread to the ends of the internet.
What do you say about all the people who were CORE and it did not work.
Regardless, the stats are still that only 1 in 400 will make Platinum, you can try to minimalize that by asking how many were actually truely doing something if you want, but even if half the people were thrown out of the numbers because they didn't do anything, you still have 1 in 200. Do you know how many show up to a job and get a paycheck that they could live on if they were disciplined? certainly higher than 99%! Ca you say that about the people in Quixter?
That gets right back to the first question. What about all those people who DID work it, worked it CORE, every day for years, and it yields nothing?
Discounting the "average IBO" is short-sighted at best, pure cop-out at worst.
Like it or not - the Average IBO is the driving force in the business and where any true growth will come. Divert and tangent all you want, that relationship can't be divorced.
You wouldn't judge the performance of a school by focusing totally on the Valedictorian, would you?
Remember, that Average IBO is recruited into the business. By only focusing on the "successful" exceptions and painting all those who didn't succeed as somehow not core, lazy, etc. is a vile form of pious classism. So much for the "it's for anyone" routine. MOD showed that the "exceptions to the exceptions" truly made money.
Tex has the right idea of helping raise all the IBO's instead of looking down on the masses.
If the "proven systems" worked as advertised, the Average IBO income would be much higher.
The one-size-fits-all "us against the world" teachings of the AMO's provide a ready made excuse of "you weren't core" when an IBO doesn't succeed. That's like telling a kid in pee-wee football that if they don't make it in the NFL, they're abject failures in football.
That type of teaching works for a short time with the average IBO, especially when the one-trick pony show message is repeated ad nauseum. Instead of adapting the training to fit the IBO - the IBO is expected to adapt a new identity.
You can try to put nice little terms to hide the classism (business owner mentality, etc.) - but the message plays to a very small proportion of IBO's, the truly driven and 600 PV'ers who want to play Diamond.
The system provides the guideline, the "growing upline" provides specific counsel, the IBO determines what is necessary for their business and ultimately what they choose to do with that information.
The corporations "active" IBO definition is NOT equivilant to a "full time student" in college. Those that are "core" would be that comparison. And as insider has pointed out, that is a VERY low percentage of IBOs. Sorry X, IMO you werent that because of a lack of documented counseling sheets and proven 6-12 months of 3-5 plans a week. (However i do admire you are 1 of a small handful of people to keep such records and post them as you did)
Critics seem to believe the system teaches "listen to tapes and read books and you will be wealthy" and i will not apologize for your skewed interpretation.
Well Brad, why don't you take quixtar's numbers and put a positive spin on them?
$88 a month ave. income.
2/3 quit each year.
few directs, few diamonds
I don't think even Brad can spin that fast.
JoeCool, it isnt spin, it is appropriate statistical analysis, and insider has already broken it down for you. Your dismissal of his calculations is based nothing but opinion and a seeming desire to hold on to a perpetuated misinterpretation.
Err... Insider's analysis was based on speculative numbers and theory based on his experiences.
The difference was that Insider was up front about that - so in the end, it's still theory, - unless there some secret place the InterBiz, InterNet, N21, WWDB, BWW, & Markerman provides hard data on the system numbers.
So, guess what - we have to start back at the Q* numbers.
Geez, Brad, you're so desparately trying to convince yourself it's funny.
Don't feel bad though Brad, -- Tony, Jennifer, Ryan, and other couldn't convince themselves either.
Getting back to the original text in this particular forum, about the quote that "we need a jet...God will provide". I do believe that God will provide what we NEED.
However, it's what HE determines we need NOT what WE determine we need. There are better things to pray for than jets...unless it's to fly tons of food & clothing to those who are starving and freezing.
>However, it's what HE determines we need NOT what WE determine we need.
Thanks, Sally. I totally agree.
>There are better things to pray for than jets...unless it's to fly tons of food & clothing to those who are starving and freezing.
I would venture to say that there are already in place people with means to get food and clothing to those in need. I would feel more comfortable praying for those in need--God has His way of getting needs met when it is in HIS plan. I would pray that people's heart be moved to help meet that need. Cna you imagine the joy that that person feels as he or she shares with what God has already given him or her?
I'm not quite sure that, if I had a jet, that it would end up being solely used for philanthropic purposes. I would rather see a person's heart change as they see God's children in need, and give proportionally as the Lord has given them, whether that is $100 or $1,000,000.
My prayer is that all believer give proportionally from what God has given them (AKA tithing) rather than quixtar IBOs trying to entice people into the business so that they can give more to charities and the church. It cheapens the heartfelt gifts that many people are already giving. Also, it begs the idea that the ends justifies the means.
"I may not be able to be active in my church for a while, but boy, will I be able to give them lots of money later on!..."
Sorry to ramble, but your comment struck a very sensitive nerve
Praying for a jet when there are people dying from hunger....that's really a classy Christian outlook.
What a bunch of rejects who are revered as leaders.
I honestly CANNOT believe that these "people" are classified as leaders.
Anyone who follows that leader deserves to lose their money.
Do people not think for themselves?
I have heard the same ideas from the Yager clan and many of the other lines of sponsorship on tapes/CD's, although most of these extreme statements come out in live functions instead of recordings.
Since when do the lying cowardly "kingpins" worship the IBO's? It is not God that will provide the jet she "needs", it is her IBO's via excessive tool profits.
Don't you wish God used lightning bolts more often?
Posted by: Tex | May 17, 2006 7:40 PM