« A Call for Reform | Main | In Their Own Words - 2 »
May 17, 2006
Andrews Explains Quixtar Tool Problems
By QBlog in Quixtar
Former Quixtar Diamond Andy Andrews explains the problems with the motivational businesses and discusses his efforts to solve those problems. It's more than 17 minutes long but very interesting, especially since he's standing on stage with some empty suits of armor.
This was probably recorded sometime around the middle of 2002 while he was leading Team in Focus.
Most interesting quote attributed to a Quixtar-friendly lawyer:
98% of the people in our organization cannot participate in the income nor can they even know there's an opportunity.
Comments
this kinda begs the question. If 98% of the IBO's are not to know or share in the tools income, then how come it seems to be more and more readily circulated. Brad mentioned that his upline told him about it right? And I thought that a few other IBO's mentioned something similar. Not to mention that there was a recent disclaimer on a Winter's brochure "success may depict income outside of the IBO plan" or something to taht effect. So what gives?
Too bad they were trying to set up an illegal pyramid, rather than reduce prices. Also, the 98% of the IBO's that should not know about tool profits is no longer true. In fact, the rules and BSMAA state profits are made on tools, but neither goes into how much is made. It should be pointed out the 98% that should not know about the tools was not put in writing, only that most IBO's should not benefit from tools (so it does not become an illegal pyramid). Note that Andy said high level pins make "many times more" in tools than A/Q products/services. If "many" is 4, then 80% of income is from tools. If "many" is 9, then 90% is from tools. Take your pick. Bottom line, this is one more nail in the coffins of the lying cowardly "kingpins" and their excessive profit tool systems.
Yes, i knew of the profit in tools at the very first plan i saw, before signing up.
TIF is quite a POOR example considering it is one of the LOS/LOAs that totally dissolved and were actually taken to court/arbitration by the corporation.
Most IBOs shouldn't know exact amounts, or estimates of "excessive tool profits" in effort to avoid the rule i stated in the forum regarding promoting other income streams along with the IBO plan. You tell a new person "as a diamond, you can expect to make ___ from tools" then in their plan they start saying it, and it is the FTC "false claims" court all over again.
And Tex has yet to PROVE with facts of actual, successful, emeralds and diamonds that their income from tools is excessively more than their QStar income. Re: tool profits and discussions with insider in particular.
Andy Andrews is a good man. While I sympathise with the position and reasoning on both sides, common ground should have been found. That it wasn't is an indictment on all involved.
Brad,
In my experience, most people are not told money is made in tools, and the paperwork is rushed past them to sign. True, if they read some people make money on tools AND ask about how much money is made, they can find the truth, or at least watch the IBO dance around the answer. Most IBO's probably would respond they don't know how much, because they really don't know how much, before getting them back on the dream. If you tell someone in the rules money is made on tools, why is it then wrong to describe how much money is made? Sounds like you are splitting hairs on this one to protect the "kingpins", especially since the truth has come out, and all we need to do is educate prospects and IBO's. The corp should require the lying cowardly "kingpins" to disclose how much money is made, then see how many people sign up, not to mention how many IBO's quit or demand lower tool prices. You don't like TIF as an example, I think they are a great example of about 20 Diamonds who revealed the truth. I know you and Insider don't like to deal with the truth, but the rest of us do. What more proof do you need than an active Diamond stating he and other high pins make "several times more" in tool income than A/Q product/services income? Are you THAT dense?
Brad,
For God's sake, look at Ron Puryear's river house and then look at the Quixtar compensation plan.
Do you honestly believe that Ron Puryear, Brad Duncan, Bill Britt, Larry Winters, etc. make more money in Quixtar than they do with the tools?
Multiple former Quixtar diamonds have gone on record saying that the majority of the income at diamond is from tools.
Wake Up!
Insider,
Andy Andrews is a funny man. He is a great comedian who I have seen and met personally. However, he is (was) still a lying cowardly "kingpin" who wanted to "spread the wealth" a little too far and wanted to create an illegal pyramid.
If he was a "good man", he would have opened the books on the tool profits (which he did, by the way, with his "many times more" profit in tools than A/Q products/services) and lowered tool prices. You can't make the same claims against these 20 or so active Diamonds as you did about Bruce Anderson and the other Emerald I quoted to you, but I can claim their statements are consistent with the TIF Diamonds and other ex-Emeralds and above who have made the same consistent claims.
Like I said before...If I knew the real money was in the tools, I would have signed up for a tools business and said to heck with the soap business.
Ty, I am fine believing Puryear, Britt, Miller -- pretty much Triple and above making large chunks of money from tools and speaking engagements, some being much greater than A/Q income. Take 1.5 million IBOs in BWW, multiply by 0.10 handling fee for 1 Cd a month, that's $150,000 for Britt (complete speculation and hypothesis, Tex hasn't even proven his claim of this being true yet).
That is THEIR business now: large group motivation and teaching.
But even aside that, what did you do err... since you didnt get there, what could you do with no debt, 6-7 figures a year, for 20 years? Perhaps invest in other things? Hotels maybe... car dealerships? Seems lucrative enough to buy a river house to me. Who is being narrow minded here, Ty?
But remember, the "kingpins" are not coming to me and saying "Buy tools, thats it". Included in the building-blocks of the business are items like: show the plan, develop M/C, read books (library card?), be accountable, counsel monthly, and associate. NONE of these have to "line the pockets" of the kingpins, and they ALL say that these are the most important parts to building a successful business... so is this saying critics ONLY bought tapes/books/function tickets and misinterpreted that this alone was going to get wealthy? That's a recipe for debt, but not fault placed on a "kingpin", sorry.
Every coin has two sides just like every story... I would like to hear part 2 of this video... because to hear only one side does not justify the negative persona of the business you are trying for the reader to perceive... Your video ended with a positive comment and I am sure there was more. I am educating myself on the business... I am not an IBO and I am not bias... but I would like to hear both sides... to give justice to those involved... also to see how much progress has the corportation has accomplished in the past four years... negative or positive... It would also indicated the 5 W's (who, what, where, when, and why) of the IBO industry. If you think I have a valid point please post but if this comment doesn't get posted I can see who is bias...
Money being made on tools is a recent disclosure. Before a few years ago, you hear IBO's claim they were told no money was made on tools, and any money left over simply went to cover big pin expenses. However, since Ruth Carter's Book, Eric Schiebeler's book, TIF lawsuits, and websites like Scott Larsen's and this one, the truth became impossible to avoid.
The result is what you see now. Admission of profit off of tools. But you still don't get the whole picture. Just how much is made from tools compared to AmQuix money? And how successful are the tools in making diamonds?
While the situation is better today with more disclosure, prospects and newly signed IBOs still get an incomplete picture, in my opinion. How many IBOs would sign up if they knew 80% or more of the diamond's income came from tools? How many would sign up if they knew the number of North American Diamonds that started after Quixtar launched in 1999? Big-pins are still selling their "dream" which is a losing proposition for most IBOs.
Tex,
Have you ever looked at the prices TIF was going to charge for tapes?
If I am not mistaken, they were lowering the price of the system AND sharing the system profit with everyone.
The legality of the TIF program lies only in the verbage that they choose to use.
Look TEAM, for example. They share profits based on number of tapes (cd's) sold. It's simply volume discount once you reach the Platinum level. Yet...Quixtar is not "after them" for being an illegal business.
I wonder why...
Ty, I did a thread on Puryear and his house etc in the forums. He could easily afford everything he has shown on his A/Q income, with money to spare.
Whether they lowered prices or not, they were setting up an illegal pyramid. I have never before heard about the lowered prices, but this would mean even less profit for the "kingpins", because there would be even less money available for them. I find this very difficult to accept, why don't you get your "boy" Bo Short to speak to the proposed tool cost issue?
The legality wasn't verbiage, it was the structure of an illegal pyramid.
Are you saying TEAM pays starting at Platinum? This is like most other LOS structures, and it is legal. Ethical is a different question, but it is legal from an illegal pyramid perspective. This is VERY different than what TIF was trying to do.
Why all the fuss? Quixtar tells what you will make if you do xyz then why not show what you will make if your successfull at moving the system.
Insider,
I would like to see the thread. Provide me a link.
I have been to the River House, trust me, there is no way in hell that soap built that house.
Tex,
Why is TEAM legal TIF not?
What is the difference between sharing tools profits when you sign the application vs. when you reach Platinum?
why don't you get your "boy" Bo Short to speak to the proposed tool cost issue
Hasn't he done it already? Dig up the forum, he was a member there.
It is so very hard to not call you Jim.
In TIF, everyone got paid, in TEAM, and all other tool systems I am aware of, you don't get paid until you reach Platinum. When everyone gets paid and there is no outside market (which is true with tools), you have an illegal pyramid. When only Platinums and above get paid, you have a seller/retail buyer relationship, a few selling to many, which is a typical business arrangement. Didn't your buddy Bo Short tell you this? If not, it is no wonder TIF never got off the ground.
Insider> Ty, I did a thread on Puryear and his house etc in the forums. He could easily afford everything he has shown on his A/Q income, with money to spare.
Joe> I thought it was Wolgamott, and it was questionable because the stuff he could have bought, would have been without buying fancy clothes and feeding his family.
I didn't say he couldn't "afford" those luxuries mind you, but I questioned whether he culd have bought everything in cash like he claimed at the functions.
Imran,
There is one "minor" difference between me and Jim, my position is based on extensive evidence and facts, direct and indirect, all showing consistency with each other and the behavior of the lying cowardly "kingpins".
You remind me of some jerk on the Bruce Anderson forum, what was his name....oh yeah, Imran.
Hey Tex,
How much was your last Quixtar check?
Oh yeah, nevermind. You refuse to answer simple questions yet expect everyone else to jump through hoops for you.
By they way, has anyone brought up the fact that you must be a Platinum to put together a system?
Tex,
You're consistent all right, better word would be similar. And I'm not the only one saying it about you. Every one is.
We all agree what u say. Almost every one has said the same thing. But not many of us try to kill the conversation by being repetitive.
And please show that "fact" "evidence" etc.? I missed that.
PS: your old lady happy?
To show a lifestyle (mansions, hummers, big toys, etc.) and to proclaim to muyltitudes of people that this type of lifestyle is achievable by the Quixtar compensation plan if pure fraud. If Quixtar had an ounce of integrity, it would immediately put a stop to the financial rape of hundreds of thousands of people who are consistently being lied to by these so called leaders. However, Quixtar won't do it because the company is every bit as greedy as the kingpins.
"In TIF, everyone got paid, in TEAM, and all other tool systems I am aware of, you don't get paid until you reach Platinum." Said Tex.
I beg to differ, I was in TIF and we were lied to just like everyone else until Rummel, his Diamonds, Andy and crew decided to finally come clean and try to make some corrections. For 7 years I was told by his directs and Emeralds that everyone paid the same price for the tools and that there was no profit in the functions. It was a valiant effort on the part of the 16 Diamonds that either quit or were fired. But it was another example of how Alticor and the kingpins cannot allow any changes to the cult and its compensation system. They are as inbred a set of parasites as I've ever witnessed. It was another opportunity for redemption, similar to the Directly Speaking tapes. Due to the amounts of money involved the Corp and its families once again ran cover for the likes of Yager, Britt, Puryear, Combden and all the rest. However since the truth is now generally known the only salvation for the common IBO is get deprogrammed and run away.
Ty,
No Ty, please back up your "fact" that only Platinums and above can develop tool systems. I can't find it in the rules and in my working with Q, they have never brought it up. What did you do, ask Bo Short, a known lying cowardly ex-"kingpin" and illegal pyramid builder, for his input?
Imran,
If you "all" agree, then let's shift the conversation to what to do about it, rather than the constant whining and snivelling I see on the forum. As I have already explained, the purpose of being repetitive is for the new viewer, not experienced forum members. I am glad you are tired of the term, are you ready to do something about the problem now? The "old lady" is great, thanks for asking.
Bob,
I am not happy A/Q didn't follow up with the "Directly Speaking" tapes in 1983, but Q is willing to help others develop other training/tool systems. However, it does take time and hard work to do this. Why are you so fatalistic? Our purpose is so noble, it gives us the energy by itself.
John,
I was referring to the proposal in TIF that everyone got paid, that would have been an illegal pyramid and got shut down.
Ty,
No Ty, please back up your "fact" that only Platinums and above can develop tool systems. I can't find it in the rules and in my working with Q, they have never brought it up. What did you do, ask Bo Short, a known lying cowardly ex-"kingpin" and illegal pyramid builder, for his input?
Imran,
If you "all" agree, then let's shift the conversation to what to do about it, rather than the constant whining and snivelling I see on the forum. As I have already explained, the purpose of being repetitive is for the new viewer, not experienced forum members. I am glad you are tired of the term, are you ready to do something about the problem now? The "old lady" is great, thanks for asking.
Bob,
I am not happy A/Q didn't follow up with the "Directly Speaking" tapes in 1983, but Q is willing to help others develop other training/tool systems. However, it does take time and hard work to do this. Why are you so fatalistic? Our purpose is so noble, it gives us the energy by itself.
John,
I was referring to the proposal in TIF that everyone got paid, that would have been an illegal pyramid and got shut down.
Just checking in. Until any LOS(Quixtar or not) pops up and grows larger than Britt or Yager w/o a system, there is no room to criticize.
Their systems(with the profit structures) are what have allowed them to last so long and continue to grow in an industry where thousands of "like amway/quixtar but better" have come and gone.
Javert,
Do you mean larger than as big as they were at their height, where they are now, or the tiny speck they are becoming as the truth about the lying cowardly "kingpins" and their excessive tool profits continues to spread and grow? I am glad nobody said that about Enron before they were brought down, they were very large and "successful" at one point, but apparently severely lacking in ethics.
No offense meant, but methinks Tex is off his rocker and rapidly becoming unhinged.
Reality calling Tex, reality calling Tex.
I usually try not to be mean, and I don't mean to be, but this is just getting ridiculous/more amusing.
Click on the Podcasts button in the masthead to hear Andy Andrews.
Hmm..these things are coming out of the woodworks now... where oh where and what oh what videos will be surfacing in the future?
Posted by: Mevi | May 17, 2006 5:20 AM