« Changes Coming Soon | Main | Constructive Criticism »
April 24, 2006
Remember Dateline?
By QBlog in Dateline NBC
The Dateline NBC Quixtar Expose is available on Vimeo.
Comments
Ya, I was right
We have owned many businesses and all of them took investment and lots of time and sacrifice often not resulting in a 6 figure income in only a year or so. If these people are truly business owners then investment and sacrifice are all a part of it. The amount of income per average IBO is just that-for the AVERAGE IBO. What happens to the above average?
Becky: Eric Schiebeler was an above average IBO - a Founders Emerald, no less. He was making $34,000 / year, after business expenses.
Quixtar reports that...
# The average bonus and cash payments earned by a Diamond IBO in 2004 were $175,116.*
# The average bonus and cash payments earned by an Emerald in 2004 were $70,954.*
# The average bonus and cash payments earned by a Q12 Platinum, an IBO who qualifies at the Platinum level all 12 months of the year, were $41,970.*
and
*The following are approximate percentages of Direct Fulfillment IBOs of record in North America who achieved the illustrated levels of success in the calendar year ending December 31, 2004: Diamond .0176%; Emerald .0420%; Q-12 Platinum .2440%.
Mevi,
"Eric Schiebeler was an above average IBO a Founders Emerald, no less. He was making $34,000 / year, after business expenses."
How can you say that's "above average" if the "average" diamond is making $175,116? It doesn't make sense.
Is the $175k earned before or after expenses? If it's before expenses, please show evidence of that. Also, I realize that these were 2004 average earnings- I am not sure when Eric Scheibler was in, the average earnings could have been much lower then.
Above average = Founders Emerald, as you can see the %'s there.
Quixtar doesnt know how IBOs spend their $$ - so obviously its before expenses. If you take the Emerald IBO projections, look at what that is compared to what they're telling you (Eric S asside)
My LOS said $115k minimum $180k realistically for an Emerald, *NET* residual...is what WWDB claimed. Over and over again.
Mevi,
How much did Eric "gross" that year? If he only profited that, it doesn't seem very "above average" to me...
Maybe because Eric didn't get much tools money?
Joecool,
Tools money wasn't specified..
Caught ya...
Micheal,
Mevi is trying very hard to indicate that Eric is "above average" in that he is emerald and the average IBO is Below Emerald.
This is in question to the third comment above. She asked, "The amount of income per average IBO is just that-for the AVERAGE IBO. What happens to the above average?", Eric was ABOVE AVERAGE in that he an EMERALD. Next, Mevi pointed out that even as an Emerald, Eric did not NET very much money.
He also properly said that the income was what QUIXTAR PAID OUT (i.e., from the statistics) which is ALWAYS going to be GROSS. Your NET comes from removing your EXPENSES from your GROSS.
Does that clarify things?
How is someone who makes it to a pin that only .0420% of all active IBO's achieve not above average?
X,
I knew what mevi meant, He was comparing the average for a diamond- Average DIAMOND in 2004 grossed $175k- not the average IBO grossed $115 per month- totally DIFFERENT.not for the average IBO, OF COURSE an emerald is going to be much more "average" than the "average IBO". That's really common sense that an Emerald is "above average" than an "average" IBO.
Mevi was comparing Eric to other Diamonds, not to other IBO's. If other diamonds are taking home net pay of $100k more than he did(from Quixtar)I'd say he was way below the average of other diamonds. IMHO, I think his strategy of how to build a business legitimately- was flawed. That you cannot blame Quixtar for, you can only blame Eric for.
also X,
Comparing the "average IBO" to an "above average" Emerald- is like comparing apples to oranges.
Where in Mevi's statement does he compare Eric S to a diamond? Here, let's look at it again:
Becky: Eric Schiebeler was an above average IBO - a Founders Emerald, no less. He was making $34,000 / year, after business expenses.
On 2nd review, he doesn't. The statements below that were there to show that based on info provided from Quixtar for ACTIVE IBO's, making Emerald makes you very much an above average IBO.
Fitz,
I will correct myself- in the post I meant to say Emerald- not diamond....
Sorry for any confusion, but my opinion still stands.
Can a REAL diamond, pearl, emerald, whatever, come up and said what HIS income is?
All we got is Eric S. data. If he's NOT average, then shouldn't someone with a real average show up?
For example: Cisco systems R&D cost is $3B for about 38,000 engineer. Avg salary = 78K, which a lot of my friends got.
Where's this $70K emeralds and $175K diamonds?!?
I believe that average income of 70K for emerald and 175K for diamond comes from quixtar, but the average may not tell the whole story as bid diamonds like britt are included in the average.
Are we all forgetting that this business opportunity is PART TIME??? The higher up you are, the less hours you work on your business, PLUS, you should be able to quit your day job at the Emerald or Diamond level, depending on the lifestyle you wish to support. How many hours a week did those $70K engineers work? 60? 80? And don't forget, that $70K is BEFORE "expenses" such as taxes, medical & dental benefits, social security, and 401K deductions. I know. I lived it for years. You can make $500K/year or $30K/year, depending on how you structure your biz. Period. Hope that helps put some perspecitive on all this money talk.
Sally, in my experience, I have never worked this business "part time". Travel time , meetings, phone calls,STPs, conferences, constantly looking for that sharp mind in every stinking place you go. No thank you. I'll stick to my "REAL JOB" and not worry about all that other garbage! G A E
Working all those hours is your choice. One needs to "set hours". That's fine if you want to work your 'day job'. I sometimes feel the same way. However, if you only work your 'day job', you more than likely will never be able to live outside of your pay or your vacation time, if you get any. You'll also probably never be in a position to help out a loved one or anyone else for that matter. My personal opinion: that's a pretty ignorant and selfish way to live. If you want more, you gotta do more. We just want more than to live paycheck to paycheck & have "time off" only on the weekends and one vacation a year. It's a personal choice. GAE, don't put down the business because you didn't schedule your time well or because you don't want to put forth the effort to get the reward. Good luck at your 'job'. Sally
Posted by: sally | April 27, 2006 05:39 PM
The big question is, Sally, does Quixtar ever give you the money promised tomorrow for the time you get today? The answer I've found is certainly not.
$115/month. That's the average Quixtar IBO income! Sure there are those that do nothing to bring down the averages, but there are also those emeralds and diamonds taht bring up the average. If just one IBO diamond is pulling in $10,000/month, that means nearly 87 IBO's are making nothing to maintain the average.
Now, take a look at the lifestyle of said diamonds. How often are they are on the road at functions? How often do they counsel their downline? How often do they leave voice messages in the middle of the night? Are they truly free, or did they just trade a day job for a Quixtar night and weekend job?
Last, it is possible to make a good living with a job. If you invest well and live within your means, you can be real successful. My parents did just that and was able to put three children through college without taking out a single penny in loans! And one of their gifts to each child at graduation was to pay off all credit card debt, and this was done all by just doing a job, with no other income!
You must know me pretty well Sally. Let me tell you something you don't know. I have lived , breathed, ate , and slept Q* for almost 2 years now. Nat a moment went by where I didn't have this business on my mind. When someone talks about being plugged in, they were talking about me. My reward for this "loyalty", is being 1000's of dollars in debt , and my uplines proclaiming proudly "You are almost there!" That is a pretty brave assumption that "I didn't want to put forth the effort."
Oh my God. Calm down! All I know is that it's a proven deal. When we are CORE, we have results, hundreds and hundreds of dollars a month worth of results!!! WHY are you going into debt??? Your upline should be teaching you otherwise. We ALWAYS counsel people to NOT purchase anything they're not already purchasing today! We're taught to simply CHANGE WHERE WE BUY! Also, if we are working with someone who can't even pay their rent, then For God's Sake, pay your rent first before spending a hundred bucks on a business conference! One needs to take care of their financial obligations. The biggest problem we've encountered when we've come across people CRYING OUT FOR SOMEONE TO PLEASE HELP ME...SHOW ME HOW!!! We do!!! Then they don't show up to do the work. Lazy, scared, unwilling, whatever. But you should never be going into debt. If you do, you're doing it wrong. Bottom line. I gotta get myself out of this negative environment & go be productive. Bye bye & God bless you! Sally
My upline always said do whatever it takes to buy that tape or attend that function, even if it meant debt!
That's unfortunate. We don't share that belief. It's a business...not a cult.
Sally
TAPESPEAK 101 , a course designed to flood the mind with useless garbage and then pass it along to others
Sally>You'll also probably never be in a position to help out a loved one or anyone else for that matter. My personal opinion: that's a pretty ignorant and selfish way to live.
X> Sounds like a quote from Greg Duncan...thats right it IS! That is on "Private Franchising in a Dot Com World" and "XS: Tastes like a Million Bucks", and probalby on more.
After reading and reading whatever comes up on this forum I have the right to ask a straight, decent question: what is everyone's problem with Quixtar, the distributor and the business model that makes use of it? Is it not for you? If so, go do something else! Please, a clarification is mandatory.
You deserve an answer to that and I will try to give you my reasons. I don't have a problem with Q* in general. What I do have a problem with is the refusal by uplines to disclose everything about the business before a potential IBO gets into it. Things such as the true price of being an IBO. The $ amount an IBO will be spending on all the "TOOLS", and more importantly who makes the money off of these "TOOLS". If I am way off base on this you can let me know.
The first problem I have with Quixtar is the "Buy from yourself and teach others to do so," crap. Follow the $$. How do you expect to get rich if you are paying three or four times more for product every month then you receive as a bonus? Sure you build a group and eventually have your bonus outgrow your expenses, but then aren't you putting your much larger downline in a position of spending more then they are making? Remove the products you receive, and the money flows the same way that a Ponzi scheme works. It's why retail (member/client) sales are mandatory.
Second issue I have is with the tools. They are worthless. How many people go to the same seminars every year, listen to the same basic tapes every year, and read books and still never get ahead. Throw in the fact that big pins have made significantly more money off of tools then they make from Quixtar, and what you have is a recipe for a scam. If you don't believe me, do some research on Quixtar lawsuits, read Ruth Carter's book, "Beyond the Smoke and Mirrors," as well as Eric Schiebeler's book, "Merchants of Deception."
Last, another problem I have is with the cult aspects of Quixtar. Too many people beleive Quixtar is their calling, and not their business. They are convinced Quixtar is the only way to financial salvatation, and make stupid decisions that aren't based on any reality but their own, Quixtar-skewed world. Reality states the average Quixtar IBO income is $115/month. Reality states less then 1 in 14,000 IBO's will ever reach diamond, and the reality of hundreds, if not thousands of anecdotes and personal stories says this is a scam. Yet, despite all of this, there continues a stream of IBO's who all believe they won't be average, and they will be the next one to make it big. I haven't run into 14,000 of them yet, so odds are, I haven't meant a single one who will!
GAE, DMM, Cristian & X - Here it is. This is a business opportunity. That's it! It's legitimate & real. There are no scams. There are costs to building ANY business and this is a HELL of a lot cheaper than any other business we have checked out. Such as purchasing a franchise such as a Caribou or a Curves. Lots of upfront capital (debt), lots of risk & lots of working hours. Period. DMM - the cost of the products is NOT more! Duh! Have you seen the cost comparison? Do your research! I LIVE it! I know...I used to go to Target, Walmart, Snyders, etc. etc. etc. and when I added all that up (impulse purchases), it was a LOT more time AND money! Do your homework DMM. GAE & X, give it up on the "tools" BS. If someone is keeping info. from you then that's a people problem. Not a Quixtar problem. As far as quoting the tapes/cd's, So??? Your point is??? Truth is truth! Are you going to address the quote or just say that "it's a quote" & not even address the context? And how do you call wanting to help others & make a difference in the world & wanting more out of life, "useless garbage"??? Wow. That kind of "useless garbage" should be touted in every business everywhere! Do you know what a "scam" is? It's all the tv & radio commercials telling you lies about a product then the stores are using tons of marketing research to figure out how to get every penny out of your pocket when you enter their store! Why do you think they are laid out like a maze? Think about it!
And DMM, quit comparing the rare breed of "do-ers" with the "wanna be's". The fact is, most of us are "wanna-be's". We all want the prize but we're not willing to do the work. Bottom line. This is hard. It takes a committment. It also takes working SMART. Use common sense with your business! And GAE, if you want to work your job, live within your means and tuck away for the future, I think that's awesome!!! Excellent plan. The problem is, there is no guarantee with our jobs. You could lose it tomorrow. And what about all the other variables life has to throw at you? Like unexpected and unplanned illnesses, deaths, damaged homes not covered by insurance, on top of job losses. We've experienced it all. Now we have a backup plan. We haven't been shown a better one yet. What's your backup plan?
Nowhere did anyone mention the costs of the products, Sally. But now that you do, they are more expensive, and yes, I've done the research. I'm also not an impulse buyer, but more of a commando shopper. Make a list, map out the most efficient way to find each product (I've been to the store enough times to know where things are located). Then get in, get your stuff, and pay in the quickest time possible. Occasionally I will see a sale item and I will ask myself a few questions. First, do I need it? If no, will I use it? Second, is the sale price a good one? Ift the product is non-perishable, even if my stock is full, I might buy it anyway, because I will use it in the future. I may have spent more money in the short term, but in the long term, I've gotten more value/bang for my buck.
Also, Sally, entrance costs are only a small part of the equation when it comes to analyzing a business's potential. Sure the smaller the initial investment the smaller the overall risk, but if the profitability probability is minute, what do you get for your small investment? If your chance of reaching platinum (no mention of emerald or diamond) is less then 1 in 100, you have better odds if you took your investment money and took a trip to Vegas! Of course, I wouldn't recommonend that if you are saving for your future. 401K's, IRA's, and heck even straight 2.25% interest bearing savings accounts will do better then your average Quixtar IBO who is plugged in (average income $115, average expenses $200).
Of course, Sally, those who don't work it won't succeed, but ask yourself, do all those that do work it succeed? Again, look at the evidence. 1 in 14,000 make it to diamond. Are the other 13,999 lazy? What about the published books and countless stories? Are all these people lazy too?
To me, the chance of making it big in Quixtar is infinetessimal, and I'd rather spend $5/month on the lottery. According to my experiences and calculations, it's a better investment then Quixtar!
You are a RARE breed of shopper, DMM. You do realize that, don't you? But statistics prove that 75% of shoppers aren't as "wise" as you in the stores. Good for you....:-) By the way, yes, the prices are cheaper...overall. One last thing...good luck in the lottery! ha! ha!
"How many hours a week did those $70K engineers work? 60? 80?"
I work about 36 hours/wk. They pay for my work, not my hours.
"And don't forget, that $70K is BEFORE "expenses" such as taxes, medical & dental benefits, social security, and 401K deductions."
Company pay for medical & dental. 401(k) is offered with company matchup (free money).
Social sec and income tax should be paid whether you're businessman or employee. Are you suggesting that this 'business' is cheating on taxes??
Sally, I'm not sure which Targets or Walmarts you've shopped at, but mine have incredibly lower prices compared to AmQuix's, even considering how everything from AQ is concentrated. You must live in an area that has a much higher cost of living. Also, could you help me find a tape or book for my inlaws, one that willhelp them figure out their profits/losses from month to month? They talk about their dream of getting a fishing boat, and I am really excited to see how close they are getting to it. It's been about three years that they are in "the business," and I want to help them find a tangible way to see their progress.
I forgot to add, my inlaws also buy quite a bit more things than they ever did before, so not only are they spending more money on regular consumables, they are also buying other things, like a medicine cabinet full of supplements (many, of which, haven't been used)along with any and every kind of beverage AQ puts out. Now I know that YOUR GROUP doesn't promote buying more than a person normally would, but why is it we see so many people purchasing more than they would need normally after joining Quixtar?
rlauren: look at your paystub again. You DO pay for medical & dental. Unless the company you work for is a one in a million charitable organization. Also, 401K's are disappearing as fast as Pensions. Have you ever lost a job? Or do you think you're not replaceable? Otherwise, keep doing what you're doing. I don't care.
Inquiring Mind: Nice "try" at sarcasm. Didn't have the intended affect, I'm afraid. Anyway, good for the in-laws, going for the fishing boat. Good to have a goal. I cannot begin to determine why they're not meeting their goals. They have to look at how they're managing their money, I guess.
Also, "inquiring mind": What does a "Normal" person purchase, according to the rules of "inquiring mind"? For example, I come across people who don't take any supplements at all & drink a 6 pack of sugar-filled pop a day. I obviously, will share with them the nutritional information I've learned throughout my own life, as well as from Nutrilite. First, make sure you are eating well, getting exercise & rest, drinking lots of water THEN look at supplementing. I show the supporting documentation about why one needs to supplement nowadays. I'm not out to CON anyone!!! Why do you think that way? I'm out to share eye-opening, life-changing information, just as someone shared it with me. That's it. We get nothing but POSITIVE feedback about the products we've sold. In two years! That's pretty impressive. Only two returns, and they were both exchanges.
As far as purchasing more, usually, it's in the nutritional & skin care areas, as they were for me. I have learned what free radicals do & the affect that the environment & what I eat, has on my health. I am taking preventative measures. I've also quit drinking & smoking. That'll help too! From a woman's point of view, it's GREAT not to have to go to 10 different places to get everything my household needs. What a waste of my precious time & energy! Ugh! I hated doing that BEFORE I had kids or was ever "in the business", as you like to say. I REALLY hate going to the store now. Ever try it with a 3 year old & 5 year old? It's hell! Much better to go to ONE source, get a BIG discount, AND CASHBACK!!! and sit at home & do it in 1/10th the time it took prior to having my own online mall.
By the way GAE & DMM, or any of you other negative guys out there in cyberspace...are any of you ever going to suggest a better alternative to Quixtar? We want more than just living paycheck to paycheck, living on a tight budget and tucking away a little here & there.
We have personally experienced living like that when 4 years worth of every kind of disaster & tragedy happened to us. We went so far into debt, just to keep our heads above water! And lost jobs were part of the equation so, so much for working an honest, hard day's work at a job! That never worked well for either one of us! Or many of our friends & family!
We remember watching the horrors of the earthquakes & the tsunami & Hurricane Katrina and saying "oooohhh those poor people, we can't do anything but we can pray for them". Well, we CAN do more for them, if we start thinking about more than just our own wants & needs and do something to go beyond what our job offers.
Sorry to rant, but obviously I feel passionate about that. As you can probably tell, it's not about the "bling" for us. It's a much more worthwhile cause.
So, I ask you once again, do you have a better alternative?
"rlauren: look at your paystub again. You DO pay for medical & dental."
No. I DON'T. My corp covers it for me WITHOUT deducting it from my salary. Got it? The three companies I work for before this also did that.
"Also, 401K's are disappearing as fast as Pensions."
??? My 401(k) is my own money and it's not going anywhere. Where's your source of info? thisbiznow.com?
"Have you ever lost a job? Or do you think you're not replaceable?"
I did loose a job. Many times. I am replaceable. But my company is even MORE replaceable. (Hint: it's VERY easy to find another job if your work contribution is higher than your compensation.)
"Otherwise, keep doing what you're doing. I don't care."
I couldn't say it better... :-)
Inquiring Mind: Nice "try" at sarcasm. Didn't have the intended affect, I'm afraid. Anyway, good for the in-laws, going for the fishing boat. Good to have a goal. I cannot begin to determine why they're not meeting their goals. They have to look at how they're managing their money, I guess.
I really wasn't going for sarcasm; I was hoping that somewhere in all the information that my inlaws purchase, there might be an inkling of business management, since they claim to OWN A BUSINESS and take in all this info to help them GROW THEIR BUSINESS. My remarks probably sound sarcastic because it to people in business other than AQ, profitablility is the bottom line. It is why they are called businesses. From what I see, my inlaws have no way of knowing if they are any closer to getting that fishing boat.
But, we must also remember, that they do feel better about themselves, which is AWESOME regardless if they are making any money or not.
Well Sally, I do actually have an alternative that is working well for me . It supplements my income nicely, and I don't have to go out there and prostitute myself trying to hook someone up in an unbelievable business opportunity. Thanks for asking
My company also does 401k matching, but if it didn't, I'd put the money into an IRA. Those aren't going anywhere. But since my company does offer a 401k plus it matches, it pays for me to use the 401k.
As for medical care, my company pays my premium 100%. I do pay for my wife and child, however. That's because my wife is an independant contractor and if we paid for her insurance on her own, it would be 2 to 3 times what I pay on my insurance for both her and our child. Having worked on my own and paid my own health insurance, I know what it costs for the full family, and it is not cheap.
Now, onto selling dreams, sally, dreams are nice, but facts do matter, regardless what you might have heard on a tape or from the stage. I would tell you to track every penny you spend on products. Track every penny you spend on your business, and track every penny you make back in bonuses. A good spreadsheet will be able to tell you if Quixtar is the vehicle that will accomplish your dreams, and I'm willing to bet dollar to donuts that as of this moment, you are spending more on Quixtar then you are making back. And if your business is losing money, dreams won't put food on the table.
Sally drank the Kool-Aid...
To Inquiring: sorry. I'm used to this site being full of empty, useless, negative, sarcastic remarks. Nothing helpful. About the financing of the fishing boat. There are plenty of cd/s & books on the list that are offered at both WWDB & from retail stores. There are books on how to get out of debt, how to manage your money, how to create an extra stream of income, how to live WITHIN your means, etc. Plenty of resources. In fact, the same books that were recommended & even given to me at companies such as IBM & AT&T.
To GAE: Can you share this wonderful opportunity with others? Please?
To DMM: Makes sense. We're doing that. We've had our own biz now for a couple of years and we're in the analysis mode. It doesn't make a good hobby, that's for sure. The products however, cannot compare to what's on the market. They are better, last longer & DO keep me from having to run errands as often with little ones. And for me, that's valuable.
To Fitz: All I can do with that "original" remark is LAUGH!!!!!
To ALL: Is ANYONE going to address what I wrote? Or are you just going to continue to make snide, sarcastic remarks? Any HELPFUL information??? Also, WHY do sites like these exist? Is anyone TRULY trying to HELP people? Do you get PAID to do this? What is the point of all this negativity? Thanks for addressing these questions & comments.
Sally
Sally, information is neither negative nor positive; it is how you interpret it. If it is your dream to jump off the Empire State Building and fly without any assistance, and I tell you that it's a crazy, stupid dream that will only end up with you going, "splat" on the sidewalk, am I being negative? Is my information negative? If I tell someone I believe Quixtar is a scam, and that you could potentially lose a lot of money in the deal, is that being negative?
Being positive is great; I'm all for it. But not to the extent of tuning out all opposing viewpoints and information. That's being ignorant.
As for product comparison, it's totally subjective. In general, I've found Amway/Quixtar products to be more expensive, even when comparing per use costs. I've also found the quality to be at best, equal to most other brands. And for me, shopping isn't that much of a hassle, though I can understand how it can be for others. And I would tell you, Sally, and others, that those who do not like to shop is your target market, and good luck selling to these people. At best, it is a niche market, but that doesn't mean you cannot be profitable.
To DMM - You're right. It can be profitable. In fact, when the kiddo's go to school in the fall, I plan to use that time to meet with small biz owners and present the Gift Incentive Program. Great Program. Unique & fun.
On a side note that I've been wanting to comment on, it's been quite distressing to see all the blogs about the "tape/cd, seminar money" and that we're being lied to. It's had a negative impact on me.
I'm not a genius, but I'm not the town fool either and I've done alot of thinking about this business opportunity. The way I look at it is: if you are a working part of the system at Platinum level or above and you are able to take part in the commissions, then ok. If you're helping out by putting your time & energy into putting together the seminars and/or you're hosting and/or you're on the speaking circuit, then I think it's only fair you get some of the profits. It's no different than a high level manager or VP in a corporation getting stock options or a piece of the profits as payment for their "extra" effort. We just have to analyze whether that's worth our extra time, if/when we reach that level. Right now, we're just short of Double Eagle and making just what they told us we'd be making. We also tell people right up front, that they too, can participate in that extra bonus money when they reach the Platinum level or above.
Also, I figure I can work any of the quality product lines in the biz to biz arena as I did for many years for other corporations. The difference is that it's now MY company and I can create my own schedule and profit margin. I'm looking forward to it.
Thanks for sharing.
"Is ANYONE going to address what I wrote?"
Regarding living paycheck to paycheck and contributing more to society?? LBYM - Living Below Your Means. Not AT, but BELOW. I don't care if you're Donald Trump or Donald Duck: if you're spending all that you make, you WILL live paycheck to paycheck. Makes no difference if the paycheck is signed by your boss or your customer.
BTW, out of curiousity, how much money do you make in Quixtar? If you're losing money (like most of IBOs), how is that make you closer to NOT living paycheck to paycheck?!?
Oh yeah Sally . I forgot to mention what I'm doing. I'm doing FOREX. The risks are there as with everything else, however, my boss is truly ME and I alone control what I do and do not do. And on another note , I'm not in it to make MILLIONS. It just supplements my job nicely. If something happened to my other job , I can just ramp it up a little.
RLAURENS WROTE: Regarding living paycheck to paycheck and contributing more to society?? LBYM - Living Below Your Means. Not AT, but BELOW. I don't care if you're Donald Trump or Donald Duck: if you're spending all that you make, you WILL live paycheck to paycheck. Makes no difference if the paycheck is signed by your boss or your customer.
WHAT IS YOUR POINT, RLAURENS???
BTW, out of curiousity, how much money do you make in Quixtar? If you're losing money (like most of IBOs), how is that make you closer to NOT living paycheck to paycheck?!?
I ADDRESSED THIS IN PRIOR COMMENTS. LOOK AT MY RESPONSE TO DMM. WE ARE WHERE WE WERE TOLD WE WOULD BE AT THE LEVEL WE'RE AT. I ALSO BUILD DITTO PROFILES & WORK BUSINESS RETAILING OUTSIDE OF BEING AN AT-HOME MOM (thanks to our business!).
TO GAE - THANKS FOR SHARING!
S>WE ARE WHERE WE WERE TOLD WE WOULD BE AT THE LEVEL WE'RE AT.
Sounds like a cop out for "I'm not making any money, but I don't want to admit it" Sorry, but I spent a long time in Quixtar, I know that is what you said, I used to say it, too.
As for the infomration, it is not negative, you have been told it is negative by a person who wants to control you so that you spend money that will go into HIS pocket, which is why you are not making any money.
To answer a few of your questions from my perspective,
First, I do not get paid to post anything, not by a person, a company, or even google adds. I simply have NO financial interest. I post because of the good I am doing in stopping people from getting involved in a questionable opportunity, or even helping those out who are involved.
Now, my motivations go above that, I decided to honor God in all aspects of my life, and online ministry is certainly a unique field these days. I have a desire to expose false teaching of the scriptures where I see it and being once heavily devoted to the twisted biblical message of the BWW motivational organization, I know a lot about the mindset of the people involved, and so this is where I place my work. Nothing more than that.
"WHAT IS YOUR POINT, RLAURENS???"
Why do you ask the question if you don't like the answer?
It is absolutely mind blowing that Americans would choose to complain about there lot in life. Jeff Bezos started Amazon in the early 1990's and finally recived a first cent profit in 1998. It took that company 7 plus years to make a single profit. Quixtar is far from a deception that is why on every piece of literature it states that the average IBO makes $118. That is because the average person doesn't actually build the busines.
But IBM and AT&T are different in that you are not told to buy more and more IBM products or AT&T services in order to increase your pay check. "Buying from yourself" has such a nice sound and makes you think that what you're purchases will cost you little or nothing. Consequently, I'm seeing more and more product being shipped to my inlaws--more stuff than they ever bought before, and not all health related items. Almost all of it costs more than comparable items on the market. The irony of this is that , now, inorder to be able to afford all these purchases, they need to go and do the advertising for the overpriced things they bought. The straw that broke the camel's back for me was when I asked my mother-in-law how she was able to caluclate her profits/losses, and all she could tell me was that she got a $100.00 check last month. She thinks that is complete profit!
Quixtar claims to be a business, and there was never any plan instucting IBO's on how to calculate a profit or loss on a monthly basis, or any basis at all?!? A SIMPLE BUSINESS BASIC! I worry about her, and I've tried to help her find ways to help her show progress toward her goal, but since my help is not Quixtar-ordained, I'm critical, and "don't get it."
I realize that my story will be considered one of those unfortunate situations of a line of sponsorship that is always totally unlike everyone else's-- an anomaly and rare occurence. But why are there so many of these "rare occurences" out there? It just is so frustrating!
"Jeff Bezos started Amazon in the early 1990's and finally recived a first cent profit in 1998. It took that company 7 plus years to make a single profit."
Oh.. boy. Is this level of business education common in AmQuix?
Amazon is not REPORTING profit until 1998, but their NET WORTH increase exponentially during the time. Using your impressive business understanding, practically all real estate endeavor are futile as well. Because they loose money year in and year out until they make a zillion percent profit on the very last year.
Rlaurens, you really need to preview what you write because, quite frankly, it doesn't even make sense! What am I supposed to respond to about LIVING WITHIN YOUR MEANS....DUH!?!?!?!?! Everyone should be taught that, but they're not. In this biz, we've gotten a microscopic view of what will happen if we don't change our spending & living habits. We sure didn't get that from our jobs! The more you spend, the better because then you HAVE TO work hard to make your paycheck!
By the way, an Eagle makes approximately $500-800 per month, which is what we've been making and we're on our way to Double Eagle, which can be as high as $2500 a month, depending on how much retail you have. Our expenses are under $200 per month and we're CORE. Our expenses don't go up, but our income does. Plain & simple. So, we've been pulling in enough profit to keep me from having to stick the kids in daycare and go get a job.
And what in the world is your point about Amazon & Real Estate? Have you been drinking??? ;-)
Inquiring Mind, it seems as though you are greatly concerned about the financial well-being & purchasing habits of your in-laws. You know, it's just plain silly (really...stupid) to be purchasing anything you don't need or use! You have to analyze the "bang for the buck" in your biz, just like anywhere else you spend money.
When it comes to business basics, we are part of WWDB, and they offer many resources under a number of categores such as: Economics, Instructional/Business, Leadership, Motivational, Relationships, Self-Improvement, Time Management, Parenting, etc. Many of these resources are available through sources other than WWDB or any Quixtar related association.
As far as IBM & AT&T, are you kidding me??? These are great companies but really...they DO BRAINWASH you into believing they have THE best products/services in the ENTIRE WORLD and that if you left them, you'd be stepping "down" and would be considered a "loser". That was the mentality and I worked at both combined, a total of 10 years. Again, great companies, but there's the "kool-aid" mindset there as well.
Also, the more money I made, the richer all the "bosses" above me got. And they "recruited" for more people as well to sell their stuff so they could make more money. So, there goes the Pyramid Theory. By the way, you make money when people sign up in a pyramid. We don't. We pay (and get paid) on performance.
Xanadustic, I think it's absolutely wonderful that you are trying to give your life over to God! That's awesome and I will pray that HE leads you to where HE wants you to be.
Do you really believe Quixtar is EVIL though??? I mean, COME ON!!! That's pathetic! First of all, if you're relying on your spiritual information from a Quixtar meeting, that is a problem. You go to the bible & a bible based church. Period. In my experience at meetings, seminars, etc., it's primarily business. When they refer to the bible or God, they are usually THANKING HIM for their many blessings and they are doing their best (as humble human beings) to apply the biblical teachings to their lives. Also, I see a LOT of giving through this organization as well.
Do you also spend hours 'blogging' against Wal-mart & Target for their anti-religious and pro-abortion, pro-gay activities??? C'mon, let's be real. You just like the "gossip" of these sites. After all, it IS easy to get sucked in.....
But, I've got to go. I've got a BUSINESS MEETING!!! God bless you all!
Sally
Sally, why do WWDB speakers often speak about God in their business meetings?
Sally,
apparently, nothing I say can change your opinion. So, just stick to it. I wish you the best of luck.
For the rest of the reader, mr john@helmerassociates write that Amazon took 7 yrs to profit THEREFORE it's ok for IBO to loose money. I disagree, because AMZN does not REPORT profit, but their NET WORTH is multiplying like rabbits.
I compare that with capital gain in RE. During the years where the price of RE goes thru the roof, you can EASILY show LOSS in your financial statements, because you DO NOT report the profit (i.e., you don't sell) yet. This very nice profit is simply going to show up in the final year, when you decide to sell it.
This is NOT comparable at all to IBO. An IBO-ship is not a worthwhile asset. If you disagree, visit the forum and you'll see first hand report from the grand daughter of Walter Bass, which is practically top of the pyramid. Ask her about the value of her 50-yr old IBO-ship and how 'easy' it is to sell/transfer it...
Sally,
I have provided more than enough documented evidence that BBW / WWDB totally twist scriptures out of context to promote a sick version of Christianity that is nowhere close to the truth. One that basis, the people saying such things are apostate. They know the truth, but fail to teach it because it would cause them to lose money. Further, they teach a twisted view because it tickles the eyes of the function-goers and they will in turn, make more money. Have you ever heard the talk "Passion" by Dave Severn? It is the classic case in point, but I can find others, too.
X, I agree with your emphasis that AQ twists Scripture to meet its needs. That is what sickens me. It claims to be a God-ordained business,and the leaders preach wholesome living and do not own up to errors they have made(Bill Britt).
BTW, I recently watched the Dateline expose. (Thanks QBlog!) Creepy chants--sure looked cultlike to me, as have meetings and functions that people I know who have left or never entered the business have attended. Can any quixtar people give fill me in on what was incorrectly portrayed? (Yeah, I know, I opened a can of worms.)
To Inquiring Mind: Yeah. I've never been in a 'Cult' before so I don't know what they're meetings look like. With that said however, as an IBO, I tend to agree. The first function my hubby & I attended, we looked at each other like "oh my God, what have we done?". However, we stayed for the speakers, the stories and the teaching. Yes, let's face it, there's alot of "preaching" from stage. But, what I personally find value in is the personal stories of victory and the REAL BUSINESS teachings that apply to THIS business! They primarily teach how to work THIS business. However, they teach leadership & service principles that apply to any business anywhere. I take what I'm comfortable with and what I can apply to my life & business and leave the rest behind. In fact, many speakers promote this. They tell you, don't just do it because I'm telling you to...do it IF it's right for you! Some speakers come on a bit stronger. I'm not some mindless robot. I can think for myself.
I can see why all of you would say this is 'cult like'. The video was somewhat accurate (although East coast runs much differently than the group we're associated with). We've never done the candles before! I'm thinking that would be dangerous...ha! ha! But it may have been presented in honor of 9/11 or a personal victory. We don't know that because Dateline didn't explain.
My husband and I still laugh at some of the things that go on (like when we see people holding lights, like at a concert, or when they've got a bunch of bumper stickers on their vehicle). We don't think that's professional. We're approaching this very professionally but, with passion to make a positive difference.
We personally, attend the functions because it's a great way for he & I to 'reconnect' and to get some time away from the kids and to dreambuild & to work toward common goals. If we didn't have this business, we'd be separated. That's a fact. He's gone 70-80 hours a week with his "day" job. I'm essentially a single parent of two very energetic little boys. It's exhausting and does not make for a good equation for a healthy marriage & joy-filled life. This biz opp. has given us the opportunity to work something TOGETHER.
We make hundreds a month with VERY little time invested. And we have fun doing it.
Hope that gives you some "insight"!
Sally
Do you also spend hours 'blogging' against Wal-mart & Target for their anti-religious and pro-abortion, pro-gay activities???
I actually shop at Target and Wal-Mart specifically because they support anti-religious, pro-abortion and pro-gay activities...
I'm also paid by The Man to go around the internet and "Post-Negative" about Quixtar.
Wow. You just said so much about you and what websites like these represent. Thanks for actually putting it in writing.
I will not wish you luck. I will pray for you for someday, because whether you believe it or not, you WILL be standing in front of our Lord & Saviour, Jesus Christ, and you WILL have to account to your actions, beliefs & words here on earth.
"...and you WILL have to account to your actions, beliefs & words here on earth".
Amen to that, sister.
"There is a way that seems right to a man,
but in the end it leads to death." (Prov. 16:25)
Wow, if you can't see the sarcasm, especially given the second part of the post, then you really are lost in the mix of this.
http://www.ibofacts.com/Quixtar_Questions.htm
http://www.countdown9199.com/
These two links alone, should pretty much clarify the discussions surrounding Quixtar/Amway.
Enjoy the lecture!
I checked the second link but I couldn't go any further after reading the first sentence:
Just five years ago, a few hundred individuals were scrambling to create what has since become the groundbreaking e-commerce business we know today as Quixtar...
LOL at the part in bold.
Why "LOL at the part in bold"?
Fitz,
come on, cut them some slack.
It IS groundbreaking ...
... for Amway/Quixtar folks :-D
There was nothing "groundbreaking" about Quixtar and e-commerce. Nothing.
"There was nothing "groundbreaking" about ... e-commerce. Nothing. "
Fitz, are you competent enough to even make such a statement? If you were a business analyst or even just an ordinary man with an inspiration on behalf of quest for meaning, your thought process would correlate with the above yet so far, that is proven contrary by your own words. E-commerce means nothing! Hence, it is to be abolished as it serves no practical purpose due to lack of value! Still, to all odds, e-commerce is actually fluorishing and proof lies with the very world revolving around you. Just because you do not see it albeit that is hard to grasp or you wilfully deny it, it doesn't render the proof as non-existent or fallacious for the verdict has already been placed.
"There was nothing "groundbreaking" about Quixtar ... Nothing. "
Thus, by virtue of necessity, Quixtar, itself a portal of e-commerce powering a specific business model, implies nothing. I am just reinforcing your words to prove your fallacies. I will not get into arguing that the business model means also nothing to you because at this stage you can't even distinguish between the two. You haven't even been willing to at least read the information contained at the two web links I have posted, much less study them. Yet, the point is proven.
Let me join in...
http://www.ibofacts.com/Quixtar_Questions.htm
Question 1: What are the chances a person can start from zero and become a Diamond?
Answer: The chance are... (blah..blah..blah, non answer, depend on the person, etc.)
Straight answer: 0.000076
So, although I disagree with Fitz wording, like him, I couldn't go any further after reading the first sentence.
rlaurens, and that my friends is exactly why these blogs exist. So people can get educated before they just jump in to this business.I heard this one forever before i got out. " Keep fighting the good fight...blah ... blah... blah ." also "Your almost there.. blah...blah...blah. "
Sally, Thanks for your detailed and honest response. I really appreciate that. One question I have for you is how can you and your husband manage Showing The Plan 5 times a week if he is working 70-80 hours per week? Again, I am not trying to be sarcastic. Do you end up doing it alone, or what?
Fitz, are you competent enough to even make such a statement?
Considering I bought stuff from Amazon, cdnow (eventually acquire by Amazon) and eBay in the mid 90's, yes I am. Quixtar were Jonny-Come-Latelys to the whole e-commerce craze.
If you were a business analyst or even just an ordinary man with an inspiration on behalf of quest for meaning, your thought process would correlate with the above yet so far, that is proven contrary by your own words. E-commerce means nothing!
That's a nice attempt at trying to twist my words around. So if I'm not involved with Quixtar, I'm not a man on a quest for meaning? Attacking the person and not the argument on your part.
I recognized the potential of e-commerce early on in the game because I did and continue to buy a lot of stuff online. It's certainly never going to become my main source of shopping though. Just because I did not attempt to capitalize on e-commerce does not mean I didn't see the high value of being involved in it.
Hi Inquiring Mind. In response to your wondering HOW we do plans 5-6 nights a week...
Well, first of all, we don't! This is due to many reasons, one is my hubby's work hours and, until recently, babysitters for the little ones.
No where is it written that a Business Builder IBO MUST show plans 5-6 nights per week. Showing 1-2 plans/week is the first step to being CORE. Hopefully, most of the bloggers on this site are aware that this business has evolved from the renowned 70's version of Amway. Although, it appears, in reading many of the blogs/comments on several Quixtar related sites, that most people want to hang onto their memories of the "old" Amway days.
One no longer has to show plans at night. People today have much more flexibility with their work schedules, plus alot of people work from home. You can meet people for early morning coffee, for breakfast, for lunch, for dinner, for Sunday brunch. We've done it all and it's all worked! We've shown it with kids and without (definitely better!).
The "plan" has evolved to the Online Webtour (5-10 minutes) with internet access, along with a Business Overview. You can do this long distance, over the phone, in less than 20-30 minutes max. Very efficient.
I have kicked out 3 in one day, without leaving the house, and still hanging out in my sweats. My hubby will do up to 4 in a day, in between business meetings & phone calls.
It's very easy and it's a concept that IS fairly new (Fitz) and is growing in popularity with the public at large. It's a lot of fun to show too.
I will add that my hubby and I have had many conversations about the fact that the Quixtar biz makes a lousy hobby but an excellent business opportunity. He & I are determining how much we want to get out of this biz. What we've experienced is, the more we put into it (especially follow up), the more we get out of it. Like anything.
Hope that answers your question, Inquiring Mind.
Take care.
My husband and I worked the business for 5 years until we had two down line 12 month directs.
I had two small children by then and decided to take time off from the business to be with them more.
We receive a check every month from the business for between $900 to $1300. I buy 100PV (about $250) in products I like (cleaning products, makeup, vitamins) each month.
I know there are many Quixtar members like us. We are doing nothing in our business, but earn money each month.
While we were active, we worked our behinds off. We invested a lot of money and time. We did it all on hope and because we felt like we were learning a lot about ourselves and about human nature and about success.
Some active Quixtar IBOs consider people like me to be parasites on the business, but I think I am the best advertizement they could have.
I improved my self image ten fold by being in the business. I understand so much more about people and business and the world because of the books I was encouraged to read. My husband and I learned to get along better and have been married for 15 years now (we were newlyweds when we got in Amway/Quixtar).
And I just love that we get that check each month from the work we did ten years ago.
When my boys go off to college I would like to go build one more direct leg so we would be emeralds.
By the way, IBOs have a great time at functions (especially after they go direct) and it is all a business write off. Plus we went on 4 all expense paid trips that were a blast (Disney, Scottsdale, Las Vagas, Grand Rapids).
We never consider ourselves to be average, so we didn't worry about what the average IBO did.
I do wish the tool system would be reformed. The tools are why we were able to achieve what we did, but I didn't like how that part of the business was handled. (It felt like dirty money to me and at one time I was earning about $800 per month on tools.)
It is a great business, but it is its own worst enemy. I miss it and miss the friends we had who are in it. It changed my life for the better.
Interesting commentary.
It really surprises me that there are so many strong feeling about this business. Good and Bad/ Accurate and Inaccurat.
What I don't understand is why the actions of a small number of IBO's(compared to all IBO's) is used as the basis for attacks on the Corporation.
Maybe someone knows the percentages of people in the US who own profitable small business (1 million or above) compared to the overall population, but common sense tells me its probably close to the success rate with Quixtar.
sally you are a true testiment to what a true american should be. Sally one day your power and strenghts will put you up at this diamond level. it is a good thing that people like this are here though sally, everyone isn't a dreamer. we still need people to take our orders at burger king haha. Sally you will realize everyone is not a dreamer and everyone doesn't want to fight for a better life but we do. just read psalms chapter one verse one and you will understand.
Joe said,
>
That's your problem. All you people are dreaming. While the rest of us are realists. Keep on listening to your tapespeak and half truths and keep dreaming of that day when you'll be finacially "free" LOL.
I find it quite ironic that AmQuix uses the word "free" since you're told to spend thousands a year on tapes, books, rallies, seminars and open meetings.
Dude WAKE UP and smell the roses. If it's so easy why do only 1 in 10,000 make it to the diamond level? Hell only 1 in 2,400 even make Q12
By the way, next time you're hungry see how many meals that "dream" will pay for
LOL! My favorite part of this whole video was Fredricks saying "A thousand dollar Rolex for kicks"
LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL! Anyone that actually owns a REAL Rolex knows they're upwards of 10K not 1K.
You could tell he was a liar right from the start. HAHAHHAHA! I love that video.
joecool & BIGDOG - accept the fact that your upline was an overzealous, unethical person and let it go. Not everyone is like that (i.e. - me), and it's ridiculous to classify everyone the way you imply.
Congrats to teacher1 - you have had the experience that I would say is the "norm".
The products are so overpriced and inferior that my wife has to sell everything at IBO cost so she makes no gross profit. And she is too imbarassed to charge for shipping or other costs she incurrs so we pay for that. And the next group of products that she peddles are those that she buys with my money and she gives away for free. And what a surprise, no one has ever got so excited about the products that they joined as either an IBO or a customer. The 4 IBO's she did induce (by deception or avoiding their questions) were soon gone within 3 months. They are only gullable for a short period of time. Then they smarten up real quick.
Don't join for the money, join because you cannot make friends by yourself (this business forces people to be your friend and socialize about anything but THE BUSINESS, especially what little money you are earning). Only up-line can talk about the business becasue they have been trained in deception and brain-washing.
All I have to say is WOW. I wonder how much money someone makes from all these negitive web sites, If they don't, why are you "waisting" your time? Everyone has the right to do what they want. Are you trying to "change" peoples minds because you had a bad experience? I have had many bad experiences with many different things, maybe I should be a negitive person and make a website to bash those things that "I" didn't do good at. All this negitive thinking makes me wanna just not even read what they have to say. If I got a nickle from everyone who said that something failed them, or didn't work for them, I'd be rich... I do have some advice for all those negitive people out there who are so against Quixtar.
-ok so you don't like the company, cool, whatever I don't care, don't do it. but while your at it, you know not doing it, why don't you keep your "advice" to strickly an opinion and not sound evidence of how something is.
normally a person whom doesn't like a company or another person, they usually don't bother with them, or stay away. Y not you? really alot of the fight seems like something my 5 and 7 yr old nephews would do. I honestly hope that the oh so smart ones, whom think they have the answer about quixtar, find someone or something that makes them happy, that they don't need to speak negitivly. And Yes I do realize some of these blogs are old. Oh I have one more last thing to say. you know how the media is so sure that if you in the biz you have to buy those "tools" Well I never did, never been told I have to, never forced to, and still to this day never have bought the "tools", but yet I still make money and have fun. Sorry that you got under someone who doesn't have many, or any morals.
Oh and I wanted to get back on the subject of this blog "remember Dateline"
Do you know who owns the media, if your thinking the people, your wrong, the persons in power, whom also owns the govrnment, and no I am not talking about anyone in politics, are just about nameless, they are so powerful and rich, rich beyond what you could probably fathim, that remain names to most people, they acutually get to choose whats in the media, These power and rich people are just that. They are the ones who want a "one world govrnment" and to control everything, so next time you see something on dateline, nbc, cnn, abc, cbs, and all the other major media company, just remember you can't always believe what you see on tv, and the same goes for the internet.
This company is nothing about tools, or anything mentioned. It is alla bout scamming. By 2008-09 all of you will be on the street making nothing. Should have kept your old jobs?
And all on Canadian TV :)
That little CH at the bottom right is from a station in Ontario, Canada (i think) CHCH TV11.
Posted by: camac | April 24, 2006 7:50 AM