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April 12, 2006
Let's Be Friends
By QBlog in Quixtar
I know very little about MySpace. I realize that it's an Internet phenomenon but frankly, I just don't "get it."
Yet it's in my nature to try to learn about the things I don't understand and I believe that the best way to really understand something is to just do it. If I don't understand poetry, I write poems. If I don't understand podcasting, I start a podcast. If I don't understand MySpace, I create a MySpace page.
What I discovered is that MySpace is really just an online popularity contest. People try to impress others with the size of their friends list. During my quest for friends I saw an opportunity to befriend Quixtar Diamond Dean Kosage. And now we're both friends!
I know Dean feels so very special to be my friend.
Isn't it great how the Internets bring people together in friendship and harmony? I love the Internets!
Comments
Hey is "C" Qrush? I mean with the fist for a pic and all we could be seeing a possibility. I am only asking because I want Qrush to be my friend.
I think myspace is a little ghetto as well. I personally like facebook (of course, that requires college e-mail, so it can't include everybody i guess... o well)
But, QBlog, if you say the best way to understand something is to do it, why did you not "do" QStar to fully understand it? And since you did not do it, can you say you fully understand it?
I love MySpace. I could care less how many "friends" I have on there. I like it cause it's a fun, easy way to keep in touch with old friends I knew from high school and such. Plus the Quixtar groups are quite hilarious.
Last time I went on myspace, there's a business forum and one of the "sticky" threads was started and it discusses quixtar. It was very entertaining.
Qblog,
Does that mean if you don't understand Quixtar, you start a Quixtar business?
Obviously I understand Quixtar. At least well enough that I don't need to join up to learn about it.
A friend of mind once said, and not entirely tongue in cheek - there's only two reasons why people aren't interested in building an A/Q business - either they don't understand it, or they're a criminal at heart.
I don't think you're a criminal at heart.
Insider,
I would wager that Qblog, as well as many of us, understand how Quixtar works.
I recall Kumar saying on 'Dark Circles and Dancing Monkeys' that often the upline does NOT know how most of the business works, but to just 'go show another plan'.
That conversation was about the Emerald compansation plan. I understand the Emerald comp plan, I also understand that my old upline had 5 people all go Silver in the downline one after another. I know that since these people do not have 2500PV side volume, they have just joined the $7.50 club!
I would like to reverse your statement:
"If people are running Quixtar in conjunction with an MO, they are either decieved or a criminal"
Qblog,
I understood how Quixtar worked before I joined, I even knew it was amway too. I was an avid reader of MLM survivor and Amquix.info before it was amquix.info. I understood the potential. I am still thankful I jumped in.
X, take the quote you provided:
I recall Kumar saying on 'Dark Circles and Dancing Monkeys' that often the upline does NOT know how most of the business works, but to just 'go show another plan'.
It is clear to Kumar, and to me, that MANY IBOs do not fully understand the business, it's governing rules, and the power/intent in Rich and Jay's vision from the beginning. It is not because it is not there, it is a lack of personal responsibility.
I believe, if many people who felt cheated in Q or Amway took more time in the beginning really studying and understanding the business, to whatever level they needed, much of what they felt "happened to them" really was misunderstood or compounded by their own ignorance.
i understand, bold statement, and i am not in the shoes of the one that was "deceived"
HOWEVER, i am one that at even a little more than 1 year in business am very well versed (IMO) in the rules and contracts around QStar and understanding the legal and rules related aspects around peoples "horror stories"
If one is to look at a blue sky through red glasses, there is no way they will truely understand what the sky looks like. I believe some individuals were ignorant in their time in quixtar, and upon leaving and finding solace amongts critics, have put on glasses through which they view QStar which prevents them fully understanding the business even more so than when they were an IBO.
Again, i feel for those that were "deceived" and "cheated" and for the monetary loss that is evident. But for the safety and protection of current and future IBOs, i write this viewpoint.
Brad,
Funny how YOU get so defensive by my statement, which was merely a play on words to the very quote aimed at those like myself.
Now, when I was in the business for one year, I also understood it, and thought it made perfect sense. Basically, I have a far greater perspective than you do. How do YOU answer the plethoria of very sound concerns about this business?
No, regarding what you have to say about the tape, the context of that quote is, EXACTLY that when a downline asks a question of the upline, it is best to IGNORE the question and tell them to show one more. It was not a quote of the general absence of knowledge due to lack of study (which I agree that is true), the context that Kumar made was that IT IS NOT IMPORTANT. Would you like me to send that short clip in context to Qblog and we can debate the real meaning of the point?
Now, further you say, "I believe, if many people who felt cheated in Q or Amway took more time in the beginning really studying and understanding the business, to whatever level they needed, much of what they felt "happened to them" really was misunderstood or compounded by their own ignorance."
X>When the upline shows the plan, he suggests the MO because you don't have the experience. i trusted the upline that HE knew I needed to do and thus I did what he suggested. That is not foolishness on my part because I knew nothing about it and he said he would help out by teaching me alongthe way, thus, I was a submissive and teachable person, but THE SYSTEM DOES NOT WORK! Are you going to tell me now that that was MY upline but not YOURS?
Now, please take a stab at this question: If BWW is NOT a cult, then way to several cult experts say it is?
X
Brad and some others may have had a decent upline who ran their business in an ethical manner. (Of course when I was active I thought my upline was ethical).
Bottom line is that there are far more accounts of fraud, lying, deception and abuse that indicate that Brad's experience is unique and in fact my experience (and countless others) are more the norm.
That being said, in general, the quixtar opportunity is still a lose money situation because even in Brad's case where his upline is somewhat ethical (so far), Brad's own admission is that he isn't making much of a profit.
I believe that in these circles, there are more examples of bad uplines than good. I do not believe, however, that this is a statistically sound sampling of experiences. (How bout we get a real statistician in here?)
And X: You signed 2 documents upon signing up for the QStar opportunity: the Rules of Conduct and BSMAA. Your failure to read and understand them is your problem. For in a court of law (or arbitration) it is not acceptable for you to say "i trusted my upline" when your signature is there.
You either lied when you put your signature there, or you ignored what you read in the rules by letting your upline deceive you.
Either way... your fault. Sorry.
And X: please provide the "several cult experts" who have said "BWW is a cult." Thanks.
(I have answered the "plethora" of concerns adequately for all who needed the answer, thanks to websites like these)
Nice copout on the question Brad, provide me a link to the answer you have for that.
Now, you are correct in that I did not read the registration form, in fact, no one in our organization did, as we were taught from the get-go that it was just the 'legal mumbo-jumbo'. It was always downplayed. As a young man, that was my fault, but it was certainly the responsiblity of the older gentlemen who were 'helping' me to say to read it. If they did that, i might have.
I never signed a BSMAA form as a seperate entity.
And i am a pretty good stats person, it comes with my occupation. Overall, I would suggest that enough data is not availble at this time. To provide enough data, that would take a wide survey, however, the myriad of closely identicle issues from around the globe, transcending MO's would have any epidemiologist's head spinning.
Again, most of us speak from a lot more experience than you do, it is like a med student trying to tell an experienced physician about medicine. It simply does not work.
Haha, funny use of the medstudent example, does that mean i get to turn around the example for use in explaining the training system now??...
I dont understand what link you want me to provide. The burden of proof is on you when it comes to "several" cult experts. Yes, i know of Hassan... but i cannot take one as being several, and in his own list of cults on his website, Amway, BWW, and QStar (along with any other MO) is NOT mentioned.
And thank you for admitting to there not being enough evidence or a wide enough sampling. Although i do believe the dollars lost and recollection of certain events from critics... from my time in this forum, i very much discount how much blame they put on others. This clear avoidance of personal responsibility or fault just makes for a very jaded recollection of events, don't you think? (Especially because very little of the teaching and action taken within BWW, as described by critics, has not been apparant to me, and i have been looking for it)
Cheers
B>Haha, funny use of the medstudent example, does that mean i get to turn around the example for use in explaining the training system now??...
X> If you wish :)
B>Yes, i know of Hassan... but i cannot take one as being several, and in his own list of cults on his website, Amway, BWW, and QStar (along with any other MO) is NOT mentioned.
X>http://www.freedomofmind.com/
resourcecenter/groups/a/amway/
Also check out:
http://www.ex-cult.org/Groups/Amway/
Let not forget Singer, who has mentioned business cults fitting description of MOs in her books (She does not mention groups by name). There are more out there, too, that is what comprises 'several'.
B>Although i do believe the dollars lost and recollection of certain events from critics... from my time in this forum, i very much discount how much blame they put on others. This clear avoidance of personal responsibility or fault just makes for a very jaded recollection of events, don't you think?
X> You must not have read a whole lot on the matter because most of us agree to our part in the problem, but even so, are you suggesting that the blame is all on US? Understand this: As the leader in the business, the burden is on the IBO to be sure that all areas are followed properly. You should tell people to read all the information, including the Quixtar rules compendium and the contract PRIOR to signing them up. Most uplines do NOT do that, etc.
B>Especially because very little of the teaching and action taken within BWW, as described by critics, has not been apparant to me, and i have been looking for it
X>Again, how long have you been involved? How many upper level meetings have you been to? How many lunches with EDC's have you had? Are you still in the 'honeymoon' stage or putting on blinders to the serious objections?
I had already posted this on the earlier thread "Buy your Quixtar Business", and if you want to delete it Eric, I understand. BUT, Brad's blatant spinning needs to be addressed. This was a BWW meeting by the way.
I know this is kind of off-topic, but just to rebut Brad's contention that things are changing in this business for the better.
IT'S AMAZING HOW NOTHING HAS CHANGED!!
I just crashed a meeting yesterday. Fairly large size meeting - about 500-800 people, by my estimation. The speaker was a former GM employee, and by his own admission had multiple degrees, including an MBA. Wife - don't remember exactly, but - I think they said, former CFO of another company.
Comes on stage and parrots the same BS these people have been parroting for the nearly 5 yrs that I have been crashing meeetings. "Product costs $10 when it leaves the manufacturer's premises, Retailer sells it for $100 because of the markup involved with all the middle-men in between." WHAT A LOAD!!! Now hear a bigger whopper. He goes on to say that, "Quixtar eliminates the middlemen and takes that $90 and keeps 1/3 for itself and gives 2/3 to Quixtar IBOs." Essentially saying that for every $100 in volume Quixtar sells, Quixtar gives back $60, or 60%!!! So, the $1.7 Bil in bonuses paid out on sales of $5.2 Bil is 60%???!!! Or is it more like 33%??? These two lies were parroted in near identical fashion during the last three meetings that I crashed. Although, this guy was slick enough, not to directly say that Wal-Mart has so many middle-men between it and the manufacturer that there is a $90 markup on the $10 product by the time it gets on its shelves (3 meetings ago, the speaker, also an MBA, came right out and said this.....????), I tried to pin him down right after his presentation by asking him whether he was implying that Wal-Mart has a gross margin of 90%. Of course, he immediately tried to spin and evade, and then other IBOs in the room got into the act. One guy actually started asking me, "Why are you being negative?" Unbelievable!! I kept tellling him, buddy this is not "negative", this is just the "truth".
I mean, the guy, by his own admission, has an MBA. Now, what are we to assume? That these two self-proclaimed MBA-degree holders are idiots who "got their degrees in a box of crackers" [to quote Fu's ;-) famous statement].... or would the more accurate explanation be this - "Both of them were a bunch of cheap hustlers out to con the unsuspecting public for the almighty dollar"?
By the way, Brad, that question is addressed to you...
Was a fairly interesting night, a couple of IBOs shoved me - should have called 911 and filed an assault case, right then....
If you want to read all the other juicy details, visit my blog in a couple of days....
Perceptive...
you are still just words. Assault: call the police and get a police report
Con: call the police, or other agency, and get them arrested or the business shut down.
PLEASE crash my meeting, i cant WAIT! Until then, keep showing everyone here you take no action on what you feel is so wrong except trying to belittle other people with your own version/PERCEPTION of this business.
And X, nice try....
Hassan:
"Disclaimer: Freedom of Mind nor Steve Hassan believe the Amway and Quixtar corporations are cults; however, we do have concerns about their Motivational Organizations."
Concerns are not proven fact that the MO's are a cult. They have attributes that are found in cults, but so do corporations, sports groups, religion, etc. (A square is always a rectangle, but a retangle is not always a square...)
and your other site, ex-cult:
"Particular "cult" groups are named here solely because criticism of their practices has been brought to the attention of the site sponsor, and inclusion does not indicate endorsement of that criticism"
It is no better than any other compilation of concentrated "poor me i've been decieved" stories.
These do NOT provide "several" experts. Thanks though.
"The Average Monthly Gross Income for
“Active” IBOs was $115."
I guess that means that Quixtar does not really produce an income for anyone...
Brad said>>trying to belittle other people with your own version/PERCEPTION of this business.
Brad, are you completely out of your mind???!!!! Have you completely lost it??!!!
The guy said (an MBA-degree holder, no less) that Quixtar pays out 60% of its sales to IBOs!!!!!!! That products that cost $10 at the manufacturers' door are retailed at $100!!!!!!
PERCEPTION???!!!! WHAT THE HELL ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT????!!!!
If I do file a complaint with the Amway/Quixtar Corporation about this incident, the latest meeting that I crashed, what do you think would happen?
The Corporation should take action against these individuals, right?
Well, guess what, Brad? I have filed a complaint, both with the Corporation and the FTC, copies of which I will post on my blog shortly. You think the Corporation is going to kick this guy out? NOT IN YOUR WILDEST DREAMS, MY FRIEND!!
Perceptive:
You must remember, when you have a dream, the facts don't count.
O man... Thanks JC for that bode of confidence...
As for one of your "facts" perc,
"The guy said (an MBA-degree holder, no less) that Quixtar pays out 60% of its sales to IBOs!!!!!!! That products that cost $10 at the manufacturers' door are retailed at $100!!!!!!"
I dont know what was said, and i especially don't know what selective hearing heard...
But this is what i was told: Quixtar pays out 68% of PROFITS to IBOs.
Yes, with exclusives, it is completely understandable that 60-80% of a "cost" in the products, or "mark up" if you will, goes to QStar for op costs and Access Biz Group for logistics. After QStar pays its necessary operating costs, it establishes a profit margin. Out of that profit margin comes the 68% to IBOs in the form of perf bonus and other incentives.
Is that so hard to believe? Look at Performance bonuses comined with 4% checks. To the Corp, every Platinum leg is essentially a 31% payment from the BV in that group (BV IS the sales volume).
25% for silver, 2% more for ruby, and 4% more for leadership bonus.
Now, how much goes into peter island, diamond clubs, Q12 trips, year bonuses, etcetc.?
There's A LOT of money there. You believe it isn't the remaining 37%, i believe it is. (remember, since the initial 31% is for sales volume, i would venture to say this 37% of profit to only need to be about 15-20% of sales)
Where does all the leftover profit goes? The corp does with it what it wishes, and I dont know exactly, but guess what? NEITHER DO YOU!!! Your conjecture and speculation is really quite irritating. Again, please visit my meeting, i would love to shut you down and then call the police on your disorderly conduct when you get angry that i actually have an answer to your questions. :)
I am awaiting the post with the FTC complaint and note to the corporation. Those are fairly passive actions, dont you think? Call the police on "assault" or how about get a defense counsel and take this evil corp to court, you have TONS of evidence, do you not? Defense counsel is free, btw, because they are protecting the interest of citizens not just you, and you CAN do that now with the new legal rules surrounding QStar. (avoiding arbitration) Or is that too difficult? You would rather visit a meeting here or there, prey on new IBOs who don't know as much as you, and complain about things here? I vote you will do the later...
As for mark-up, here is a chart for agriculture/food products:
http://cpa.utk.edu/pdffiles/adc40.pdf
(Yeah, JC, i don't care for facts, do I??? )
Remember, these are agriculture products, at a 140%+ markup. Agriculture (supermarket) markups are the least you are going to find, ie profit margins are the smallest in the retail arena.
How about instead of flying off the handle and jumping all over this guy's case because he didnt have this fact correct (And you are the ONE person in the audience that really cared...), you hand this to him and help him adjust it? No, that would be something helpful and constructive, and you're not really into that sorta thing, are ya?
Brad,
It would explain why for example, a bottle of 500 count vitamin C costs $12 at Costco and a 300 count nutrilite vitamin C costs $35.
Charge the IBO's 300% more and then make them think it's a great deal by giving the IBO's some of the excessive profits
back as rebates, bonuses and free trips.
JC: first, this would probably be a good discussion for the forum.
Regarding your statement: Please supply the count, supplement values in each, absorbability, certified organic claims, as well as Vitamin C sources found in each product.
There is more to just a "price." The way people here boil it down borders on lies... it is deceptive at the very least. (And you say i'm not interested in fact?... com'n now) If, after all the "value" statements are added and someone wants to stick with Costco vitamins, good on 'em, at least they are taking supplements. But that in no way proves this business does not work, or the products are "over priced."
(Also, supplements are not considered agriculture or food products, the profit in supplements are huge, just look at how wide spread the market is right now? It will flush out in the next 5-10 years, and i doubt Nutrilite will be one to fall by the wayside...)
Brad,
I know there may be some variations with vitamins but quality, etc are subjective. If quixtar stuff was so high in quality, why don't ex-IBO's continue to buy products?
Let's use a simpler example: Red bull costs about $32 for a case of 24 at Costco.
I believe XS costs about $25 for a case of 12. Now I know you can argue that XS has more flavors, etc, but the cost per unit is more expensive than Costco.
And yes, I know that quixtar has some cheaper stuff but not acrross the board.
I'm dissappointed! MySpace is for punkish kids (or kids wannabes) like Dwighty and Dean. Or folks who love pig language (pig language = ello how r u doin' dude chk dis out dis site is wicked yo)
Posted by: Imran Aziz | April 12, 2006 6:04 AM