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March 11, 2006
Odd Isn't It?
By QBlog in Miscellaneous
How did Amway get its name? According to the Amway website, the name is short for "American Way." Today this "American Way" multilevel marketing business provides an opportunity for people to sell exclusive products and recruit others to do the same.
What is this "American Way" opportunity called in America? Quixtar.
Isn't it odd that the business opportunity has a different name within the namesake country? Wonder why that is?
Comments
It's still Amway in the UK, but the internet opportunity in Western Europe is promoted as "Amivo - your online opportunity from Amway". www.amivo.co.uk
Brad>
Qstar is a twist on the original because of:
1) The online element
So what's wrong with Amway.com? It sure would be a lot clearer to people about its identity.
2) Direct Ordering/Shipping
OK, so products get shipped directly to thge customer. Why change your name?
3) All payouts handled by the corporation
There doesn't seem to be any logic here that would cause the owners a company in good-standing with the public, a company with great name recognition, something that all companies desire, to want to change its name.
So tell me again, why did Amway change its name?
Oh yeah Brad, that makes total sense. I mean everytime a company makes any kind of change to how they do business they should just change their name completely.
Why not just say Amway has a new online feature, and with tracking for the corporation to make payments. Also, we not direct ship to customers. This feature is available in North America only for now.
It never makes good business sense to change your name unless your name has a bad reputation attached to it. Nice try Brad but I think you need to think harder about why they really changed their name.
The truly sad part of all this is that they had to change their name because of the motivational organizations, not because of anything they did to sour their reputation.
"Qstar is a twist on the original because of:
1) The online element
2) Direct Ordering/Shipping
3) All payouts handled by the corporation"
HA, HA, HA!!! Oh, man, that was a good laugh!
I've heard other creative ones, but, Brad, that is absolutely the most laughable explanation I've ever heard for Amway morphing into Quixtar.
Did you type those words with a straight face ;-)....??
Having been "in" and very involved during the switchover, I will tell you what I heard from Paul Miller, who was at that time (if I remember correctly) the President of the ADA, later to become the IBOA:
Due to the vast amout of negative material on Amway to be found on the internet, it was imperative that the company pick a name that was in no way a derivative of "Amway" for the new venture. The name was kept completely secret until shortly before the site launched, for the reason that the company wanted to be sure they had purchased all the derivatives and mis-spellings of the new name, and that critics could be kept from sullying it.
We were told (though I have my doubts) that the name was a combination of Quick (for Quick Access to the world of internet shopping) and Star (because we were the new "rising star" of the internet).
Hey Brad
Here's a quix fact for you. Amway did have an online element called Amway.com. It was available for "directs and above" to order products online, have them shipped to whatever location the "direct" wanted, and our checks came directly from the corporation. Used the program myself for several years until I got tired of replacing half my Ruby distributorship every year.
Now what were your reasons for changing the name to Quix?
Hey Brad, instead of trying to justify the name change just get out there and work your business.
Right now, your ferverent efforts are getting beat by a 4% CD.
When I was "prospected" in my very own kitchen two years ago by a relative of an acquaintance of an actual friend (the usual obscure line of connectivity, six degrees of Kevin Bacon has nothing on these folks), absolutely no mention of the word AMWAY crossed my table. I was shown some lame circle illustration of the "business" and how it supposedly worked. I asked outright if it was a buyer's club, and no solid answer was forthcoming. They gave me the quixtar website address and a guest password, which I found odd. Why couldn't you browse the site freely and see what they had to offer from all these high-profile partners? I went to the site, was unimpressed by everything I saw. or was allowed to see. It was slick and substanceless, in keeping with my gut feeling about the whole "business opportunity" being presented to me. I did some online searches and found the truth--Amway=quixstar. I also found this blog and learned all I ever needed to know about the business. The rest of the story? My original friend spent hundreds of dollars on books and tapes and the "revivals" that the organization calls essential functions. She was truly motivated, way into the system, so, you may ask, how did she do? The most she ever made was 32 bucks in one month. I told her she could write her own books on positive thinking and to quit throwing her money away on badly written self-help manuals. She finally wised up. Her acquaintance that tried to recruit me is still up to her neck in Quixsand (but no money)and the relative that showed me the plan is struggling to support his family. The success story is that I didn't lose a dime to Amway. I started my own business, and have doubled my modest income in less than a year. The moral? Don't try to sell dreams; sell something real, something people want or need and are willing to pay for, something you believe in yourself, and success will follow.
"Don't try to sell dreams; sell something real, something people want or need and are willing to pay for, something you believe in yourself, and success will follow."
A hearty Amen to that! Brad, that's for you. Think about it a little, instead of shilling for an unethical corporation.
Ok perceptive, what are you selling? what do you believe? and what are you giving to society in a positive manner?
just wondering.
"Due to the vast amout of negative material on Amway to be found on the internet, it was imperative that the company pick a name that was in no way a derivative of 'Amway' ...and that critics could be kept from sullying it."
Man, - That worked like a charm, didn't it! Seems they really did have that 'whole internet thing' figured out.
BTW, Amway doesn't need any help from the critics when it comes to sullying its name.
Brad, I am in a business which employs over 40 people. In a business where high turnover is the norm, we pay better than our competitors and have a much better retention rate. We are growing like crazy every year.
Don't you worry, we make a positive contribution to society everyday - selling something real.
But, tell me again, why is that relevant, Brad? Why does "exposing a scam", not be good enough?
Fu,
Shut it. You didn't take my challenge because you hide behind this post but here is yours being destroyed:
Qstar checks: $697.79. If i made that in a 4% CD, i would need about: $17444.75. I spent less than $10K on ALL business expenses AND Qstar purchases combined. This even counts: Mileage i would have driven, cell phone and office i would have paid for, computer i would have bought anyway, etcetcetc.
if you take that i spent $10K (which i didnt) and made $697, then i made a 6.97% return. Better than large parts of the stock market.
Cheers.
Postscript to Brad re selling something worthwhile: I had one of those dreaded
J-O-B-S you Amway people are always denigrating. I chose to "follow my dream," also a phrase you are surely familiar with. I quit the JOB I held for 14 years, took a leap of faith, and started teaching yoga full-time, instead of as a side project. It took a while to build up my business, but I made more and more contacts and connections, all without accosting people with my business card in a produce aisle. People called ME. How about that? I love what I'm doing. I'm making more money than I ever would have expected, and I'm helping other people in mind, body, and spirit. I didn't spend anything on motivational tools, because real motivation comes from our inner selves, not a paperback penned by a hack to make money off poor gullible souls. Brad, I hope that you will find the success that you are looking for...but I have to ask...when you were little and people asked you what you wanted to be when you grew up, what was your answer? To sell soap and eyeliner and energy drinks? Ralph Waldo Emerson said that we should try to find useful work that reflects our true natures--"Talent is the call..." he asserted. What are you good at? If it truly is selling soap, get ready for greatness. If not, perhaps you should try to follow a different dream. I wish you well.
Truebeliever - i do not discount jobs, do not assume. My job does help the country, however I keep my job private, sorry.
Good for you in your success, I do hope it keeps going well.
What i wanted to do/be? I never answered that question. I anwered: How do i want to live (Yes it's in books, but I actually did that). I had huge dreams, huge aspirations, and my dreams included impacting people from stage, and through charity, around the world. Hold on... my upline does that. And you say i'm in the wrong business? Dont compare this upline, who you dont know, to the 'kingpins' you hate.. i know the person i am following and i really do not have to prove anything good, bad or ugly to you. How are you going to help me with that dream? My dream is for me, and does not discount or devalue your life's pursuits. Good luck and success in all you do.
if you have further questions, please visit me in the forum, PM me, or something. I have learned from past experience personal disccusion/attack/etc is better suited for private messaging and forums. Thanks.
Cheers.
Brad,
Not to be technical, but I think you just pulled a Kiyosaki ;-) here.....
Your $697 q-star CK would give you a 6.97% return on a $10,000 investment (your expenses for the year, per your description), ONLY IF - that $10,000 is also returned to you alongwith with $697. i.e. you don't make a 4% return if you invested $100 and you got back only $4. You have to get back the principal ($100) too.
If you want to counter that all of the $10,000 is money you would have spent anyways, then of course, that's a different story ;-)...
Perceptive, you are very perceptive... i was waiting for this comeback:
QStar never claimed to be get rich quick or a short term investment, it is on-going income. If you wish that CD to be ongoing income, you would have to keep that $10K locked up in a CD or other investment, would you not? I currently, even with my lack of work as of late, am on course to make double that for this year. Which would match up keeping that 6.97% return right? (considering i 'dump' another 10K into it...)
What say you then? You must compare apples to apples. My business, ongoing 6.97% (or more) and your ONGOING CD at 4%. I win.
Brad> What say you then? You must compare apples to apples. My business, ongoing 6.97% (or more) and your ONGOING CD at 4%. I win.
DI> No, you don't. Because the $10,000 was spent on Qstar and travel expenses to get the $697. If you want to get $697 next year, you'd have to spend more money on more functions, tools, travel, product.
The $10,000 put into the CD doesn't go anywhere. You don't have to invest more money the next year to keep up your income.
Or are you trying to tell us that you're not going to be spending another dime on your Qx business and will still keep getting the $697 year after year?
Thank you Don,
I was going to make the same response.
The $10,000 put into the CD doesn't go anywhere. You don't have to invest more money the next year to keep up your income.
Plus, you get back the $10,000 from a CD at expiration of the CD's term. That is the critical part. Are you going to recoup the $10,000 in expenses?
Your turn, Brad.
Brad you are measuring GROSS INCOME, not RETURN ON INVESTMENT. The fact you didnt understand this absolutely baffles me and says a lot about your understanding of business but that is besides the point
To get ROI You need to take your $697 and subtract all of your business expenses (less the tax credit you are getting from those expenses of course)
Then you need to take that number over the money you invested throughout the year. That % is your ROI.
This is the number you are comparing to a 4% CD.
FYI, You can find a lot of this data in your tax return documents namely the Sched C
So go ahead and recalculate and get back with us. Woods promised to do this but he hasnt gotten back to us. I hope he does this too.
ALSO telling someone to SHUT IT (as you did previously) does not fit in with the CIVILIZED precendent mandated by Qblog. So be careful I would like you to be here for a while. You are a great example to show people.
Ok, i can see your take on it. (and i dont disagree with the business ROI deal) but... we were talking Cd/Stock type investments, so... in a business, to "beat" a 4% CD, i would need 104% profit vs what i invest in the business? (roughly speaking)
Ok... what about a comparison to what people are banking retirement on? A stock/mut fund investment that pays "residually"?
To get the $679 return i got, would you not need at least $6790 tied up in the S&P or other growth area? In another, less risky investment, would you not need more?
And, DI, my answer is sort of. With no more investment (ie, the same expenses in business) my income will double. It's just the way it works. Can i walk away from it now? No, but i'm ok with that. Sorry you are not ok with it.
and again, i point people to the forum for these discussion, the blog area is too crowded. Perhaps if you put yoru 4% deal up in the forum.
nite
Brad> Ok, i can see your take on it. (and i dont disagree with the business ROI deal) but... we were talking Cd/Stock type investments, so... in a business, to "beat" a 4% CD, i would need 104% profit vs what i invest in the business? (roughly speaking)
DI> No, you would need 4% profit. Profit = revenue - expenses. Your expenses/investment are $10,000. Your revenue is $10,400. The difference, i.e. profit, is $400, which is 4% of $10,000. Therefore, 4% profit.
Bottom line: To compete with a 4% CD, your Qx business must return ≥$10,400 on a $10,000 investment or expenses.
Brad> And, DI, my answer is sort of. With no more investment (ie, the same expenses in business) my income will double. It's just the way it works.
DI> Let me get this straight. You are saying, that after your spending a one-time expense of $10,000, your business brought in $679 and will bring in $1,358 next year with NO ADDITIONAL EXPENSES? Pardon me if I don't believe than and don't consider "it's just the way it works" a sufficient explanation. You're gonna have to provide some concrete, not anecdotal, support for that outrageous claim.
By the way, why am I reciting all these basic concepts to a [i]business owner[/i]? Could it imply that the thousands of dollars spent on motivational tools do not result in any tangible business know-how for the IBO?
Sorry, explanation is: no additional expenses more than this years... ie next year, i will spend the same. And remember: that $10k was including food purchases through Qstar that would have been purchased anyway. My expenses were no more than $2-3K, although i get to claim more on tax returns.
And, yes, i understand the equation. And no, i'm not the only person who falls into this trap. Thanks for the help.
Your input would be good int he forum topic: If not qstar, then what/ I would wonder what options you have.
Brad, dont worry about these petty arguments, if these guys knew what it took to build a successful business they would have done it. By the way once you help one person go platinum that is the equivalent of having $395.000 in an account yr after yr after yr.
Wheres my math? $395,000 at a 40% "luxury" taxable rate (thanks to liberals & democrats) leaves you with $237,000 in an account earning 4% intrest nets you $9480 a yr divided by 12 months is $790!!!!!!!!!! The amount that you get for helping one person to platinum.So, let me ask you, what do you think is harder? Helping one person go platinum,or saving not earning but saving $395,000.
This is a joke comparing the income from this business to interest on real, liquid assets in the bank.
I saw a Platinum, a Diamond, and a Silver, just disappear, go away.
What do you call THAT?
Wasn't there this nice big book out about a chap who was a Platinum(+) - and was waiting for his windfall...yet it ended up a decimal place off? (not $395K, but about $39K)? He'd already 'retired' from his J-O-B and spent his 'freedom' time waiting for the big checks to show up...
I will give Brad credit: if he spends 3K/yr on expenses and doubles his income each year starting at $679, at the end of year 6 (making $21.8K at that point) - he will finally net a profit of $3.7K!!! Of course, doubling from there it gets even better!! Fruit drinks on the beach for everyone!!! (Served by me, of course).
Yet, the IRS gets grouchy after about year 2: with no profit - you don't get to deduct those 'expenses' anymore...which cap out at around $-6.7K at the end of year 4.
Good luck 'doubling' each year. If, on the other hand, the 'rate of growth' is not 2, but 1.5 - then Brad will have to wait until year 9 to see a net profit of $680. 50% growth each year is pretty phenomenal for any business. 9 years of pounding away on Qblog's space to net $680...still, better than what I'm going to get out of it, no? Then again, my 'hobby' has a significantly lower overhead: $0 (minus the measly $20 I think I gave Qblog a couple of years ago). -$20 for me, -$2,300 for Brad and counting!
I love this math/profit stuff!
What do we have that's better? Well, for all but an tiny few who get involved, just not doing Q would be better than doing it, in other words, doing nothing is better. For those tiny few for whom it is better than nothing, it is so only by virtue of those legions for whom it isn't. If nobody signed up that wasn't going to make it, nobody else would either.
Brad, dont worry about these petty arguments, if these guys knew what it took to build a successful business they would have done it.
Of course, of course, those pesky little profit and loss equations, those ROI, what do these Quixtar-critics know about it, huh?
We Quixtar Revolutionaries, on the other hand, know so much about building successful businesses, that we defy all those equations - we just pull numbers out of the thin air...
Very amusing, but tragic nevertheless.
Did a silver disappear because he got so rich or so poor?
Take a gander at this:
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,187668,00.html
what are you all doing to make sure you aren't part of that mess? planning on working until you die? Just wondering...
And for those with input on what else is better: Post to the forum, it will help all those who are interested. Thanks
Cheers
Take a gander at this:
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,187668,00.html
And, Quixtar is your salvation from that? You are kidding, right Brad?
Brad> Sorry, explanation is: no additional expenses more than this years... ie next year, i will spend the same. And remember: that $10k was including food purchases through Qstar that would have been purchased anyway. My expenses were no more than $2-3K, although i get to claim more on tax returns.
DI> So what you're saying, basically, is that in year 1 you have a net loss of $9,303. Year two, you will have a net loss of $8,606. The first year you will have made a profit would be year 5, where you'd make $1,152 profit.
By year 5, you will have lost $28,393 in business expenses. And this is assuming that with a constant annual investment of $10,000, your revenue will be double that of the previous year. You still have not explained why such an assumption is accurate.
So you're 30 grand in the hole after 5 years. And this is supposed to be a good business?
In any case, Brad, I thought we were talking about beating a 4% CD - ROI, Profit and Loss, that kind of stuff.... Stuff that all you Quixtar "Businessmen" seem to know so much about.
By the way, Brad, we don't have to provide a "better" opportunity to prove that Quixtar is inherently bad. That is a logical fallacy.
As someone has said here before--"better" would be doing nothing at all.
Still believe in them old "Superstars" from the 60's and 70"s? Are they still working because if they retire the business would not make it? Where is the fruit they have preached for so long? If they went Crown and Triple in the old days should not there be some new age Crowns and Triples with all this hi-tech? The lifestyle don't look worth the price! You see it's not just money and what you have! It's who you have around in the end. I would rather have a job, my family and real friends (not because I have a fortune) around when I leave this world.
They didn't change their name to Quixtar. Amway changed to Access Business Group, and put their products into Quixtar, the same way that Barnes and Noble, Office Max, Shop.com, Circuit City, and many others have, and will continue to do...
They didn't change their name to Quixtar. Amway changed to Access Business Group, and put their products into Quixtar, the same way that Barnes and Noble, Office Max, Shop.com, Circuit City, and many others have, and will continue to do...
What???!!!! "Put" their products into Quixtar? And how exactly is that similar to Barnes N Noble, Circuit-City et al?
Are you sure about that "Amway-USA did NOT change it's name to Quixtar" statement?
Come on Creylish, I thought you were a little bit more informed, here's your definitive proof:
I like the way they have to bring them "partner " stores into this for some credit! I don't remember any of them changing their names when they went online or because they bought from a different supplier!
Ray... that is because, for some reason, you don't trust the $100 millions and 100s to 1000s of scientists/researchers that have developed Access Business Group's product lines over the last 45 years. But you will go into some rando-store and trust in all they carry? It's just the way it has been programmed into us...
And don't say "that's the way it has always been" Go back and look at around the time of the Industrial Revolution, and before.
And no, perceptive, that is merely 'definitive proof' in your opinion. Ask the lawyers at the corporation to say Amway = Quixtar. Or any other corporate lawyer. That is why it specifically says SUCCESSOR. If it wasn't for Amway, Quixtar wouldn't be here, i do not shy from that. For more on that, join the thread in the forum!
Ray> those companies didn't buy from a different supplier. I am not bringing them in for credit, I am pointing out that Amway and Quixtar are SISTER companies, not the SAME COMPANY.
Perceptive> Glad you linked me to that site, because it also links into Jody Victor's site, where she states the same thing. Sister companies and not the same company.
If they were going to switch to avoid being called out as Amway, I am positive that the leadership team would have found a way to erase the traces. Instead, people are able to get the documents.
Brad, Creylish,
You guys are kidding me, right??!!
What part of "name change", "old name", "new name", do you not understand?
See this specific link on that page that I provided you earlier:
And read that part where it says "OLD NAME - AMWAYUSA, INC."
And sure, the link's provided by Scott Larsen, your favorite drubbing-boy, but the link is to the actual Virginia State Corporation Commission record.
This myth has been debunked a thousand times, it's really old hat, you guys are making a laughing-stock of yourselves!!
Quixtar/Amway apologists will never cease to amaze me!
Brad:
You seem to have missed one of my replies to you. According to your own numbers, you're 30 grand in the hole after 5 years. Look up for my calculations.
Sounds good DI, I look forward to it. I only have 3 1/2 years before the end of my 5 year challenege that perceptive has taken. Perhaps you would be willing to take it as well, seeing as though you can predict my future?
Perceptive: walk up to any corporate lawyer and say "today i want to file a complaint with Amway" what will they say? Yes, case closed.
BTW, Creylish, Jody Victor is a he, not a 'she'. He is on the board of the IBOAI.
Brad> Sounds good DI, I look forward to it. I only have 3 1/2 years before the end of my 5 year challenege that perceptive has taken. Perhaps you would be willing to take it as well, seeing as though you can predict my future?
DI> Predicting your future? Brad, I used YOUR OWN NUMBERS, which are: $10,000 annual expenses, $697 annual revenue, which doubles every year. Do you find fault with the numbers you've given? By these numbers, you're 30K in the hole after 5 years.
And on what basis do you assume that your revenue will double every year?
And on what basis do you consider a business with such negative cash flow a good one?
Brad,
I am FLABBERGASTED!!!
"OLD NAME - AMWAYUSA, INC."
You don't get this??? Those are not a 'Critic's words. Those are the words, as they appear on an official state document - the VIRGINIA STATE CORPORATION COMMISSION, to be precise!!
What are you a child, throwing a tantrum??
And you really need to give up that stupid little "challenge" that you keep repeating. So, Joecool goes offline, takes your challenge, and what happens? You say, you disagree about what constitutes investments and what constitutes expenses!! Joecool, being the gentleman he is, only says that he had a lengthy discussion with you and that he considers "the matter closed". I wouldn't be so charitable. If your remarks on this thread are any indication, you must have come up with some insane definition of "expenses", "ROI", etc!
The only reason you don't want to discuss this on here, A PUBLIC FORUM, is because your credibility will be ripped to shreds!! Why are you so insistent on convincing just that ONE critic offline? Wouldn't it be better for you to broadcast to the whole wide world (remember, #2 on google-search for quixtar), how great your "business" is?
I am really convinced, you are losing your sanity now!
DI, i really dont want to go farther with that. I am aware at the falacy in ROI used for business, because i used investment ROI. I have thanked people here for pointing that out. My basis for growth is nothing more than confidence in myself and my team. To you, that is naive/intangible, thus not credible. That is all there is to it.
Perceptive: Joecool and I did just that, settled it offline. Why do i want to take it offline? I want your money when i win (or other decided on value) and offer up something for me to lose to just add more motivation. It was a challenge to see if you had the balls to put something behind the vengence you spread here. NOthing more to that either.
Do not assume discussions you know nothing about. That right there destroys your credibility. I am collecting these statements. I have walked current IBOs through these sites and they laugh. Yes, they will laugh at my ROI calculation, and that is fine. But guess what? Now i know it, now i am stronger than i was. To you, that is an unhealable wound. To me, it is a chance to grow and get stronger. We are almost exact opposites Perceptive. In a way it is kinda sad. In another way, it is necessary in the world we live in. Thank you for pointing out my errors, thank you for proving i am human, and thank you for proving that even an idiot (me) can deal with this business.
And get back to me when you talk to that corporate lawyer.
Cheers
Brad,
OK, you want my money ;-)... fine.
Here's my challenge. We discuss the parameters of the challenge on here, IN THIS PUBLIC FORUM.
The money? How about a thousand dollars, sound good? As good faith, I paypal EricJ/Qblog, $250, and you do the same. Qblog keeps the $500 in escrow for the next 3-1/2 yrs. Whoever wins, ponies up the rest of the $750. We are both honorable men ;-), I am sure, and we will come up with the balance of the $750 at closure. Or if you think not, we both pony up the $1000 right now?
What say you?
You guys need to simmer down a bit. Brad made a mistake (yes it was a huge glaring mistake but we are all human) and now he is trying to rectify it.
Brad now that you know and now that you are smarter you can go back and recalculate your ROI for the past 1.5 years.
Just do it. No big blow up is needed.
What I do find funny is that QProud tried to divert Brad away from the numbers. THE NUMBERS TELL THE WHOLE STORY.
Brad I hope you saw that too.
Brad dont let the numbers get washed out in your journey. Good bad or indifferent let the data be your guide.
I am looking forward to that re-calculation.
FU>What I do find funny is that QProud tried to divert Brad away from the numbers. THE NUMBERS TELL THE WHOLE STORY.
Brad I hope you saw that too.
Brad dont let the numbers get washed out in your journey. Good bad or indifferent let the data be your guide.
Q*> How do you catch a cold? From a person with a cold.
How do you catch broke mentality? You can answer that one.
I wasnt diverting Brad from #'s. Get your retail profit up to pay for your business! But dont let somebody who failed in the business give you advice as to what to do.
Fu I hope you are WORKING HARD to save your 395,000!
Q*Proud, you are right. The blog and the forum are different animals, and unfortunately, i found myself sucked back into the blog.
Perceptive, we will keep the challenge as it is when you accepted it, offline. Rules are forthcoming.
Fu, you can calculate that ROI. In that sense, yes it is not "good" in the snapshot. However, that does not show the equity i have in my business in the form of promotional materials, samples, and knowledge. How do you calculate that? Never the less, you are right, i learned my mistake. Down the road, perhaps i will drop by and present my ROI beating that 4% ;-) Until then, i hope your CD becomes even more profitable.
laters.
Brad I cant do the calculations for you. You can learn to do these calculations and make your own decisions. Remember THE NUMBERS TELL THE REAL STORY.
Guys like QPROUD will just try to come up with anecdotes and cutesy slogans.
I think you are smart enough to know where the REAL VALUE IS.
Good luck.
Brad>... that is because, for some reason, you don't trust the $100 millions and 100s to 1000s of scientists/researchers that have developed Access Business Group's product lines over the last 45 years. But you will go into some rando-store and trust in all they carry? It's just the way it has been programmed into us...
I have been in the Grocery business over 30 years and was in A/Q for 16 years. I have been in management of a store doing over 85 million a year before. I think I probably know a little about products,their costs and quality! If it took over 45 years and millions to make these overpriced products what a waste! They don't compete with any stores I used to check prices with. If they are better people don't want to spend their day listening to a seminar explaining why! The majority of people buying Quixtar products are IBO's and will always be. You need more customers and members to really make money in Quixtar and that is not ever going to happen at the prices they have. The kingpins are going to always make more than anyone because of the system.
Any of you an IBO? well I am. Started about 2 months ago. Paid $30+ to sign up (did not buy a starter/intro pack), and I'm also paying $16/month for a website. Made my first purchase a few days later (about $200 worth of products that I no longer purchase at Ralphs, Albertson, Publix. Havent bought a single CD although I've listened to about 5 of them, and have been to 2 meetings (both free). Sold roughly 1,500 points already. Got my first check ($1000+) which evidently covers way more than the $62 ($30+$16+$16) I've invested. Now tell me, what's bad with this business?
Ray, dont confuse the products with the leadership development seminars/motivation. Quixtar is different than the 'merchants of tools'. Of course, one has to weigh the cost/benefit of products. If its more expensive and does not perform better, why buy it? I now have a website thats linked to CircuitCity, Barnes and Nobles, etc... and guess what... last year I spent $500 at Amazon and $300 at BN for books (way before I became an IBO) . I'm the Org. Development VP in a very important nonprofit... I was teaching my staff the same principles that my sponsor shared with me... so should people spend a couple hundred bucks a year in personal development? definately!! People need to be informed before they criticize. Of course, this business is not for everyone... just like not everyone would be successful running a vending machine business or any other business for that matter. I've had 2 great months, interacting with people that want to be successful, buying wisely, and getting money from my own purchases and a profit from people that visit my website.
FU>Brad I cant do the calculations for you. You can learn to do these calculations and make your own decisions. Remember THE NUMBERS TELL THE REAL STORY.
Guys like QPROUD will just try to come up with anecdotes and cutesy slogans.
I think you are smart enough to know where the REAL VALUE IS.
Good luck.
Q*>Lets get to the "REAL STORY" Are you a deranged ex-IBO who lives on the web fervently bashing Q*? That "cutesy" slogan probably made you mad huh? How dare you try to steal someone elses dream because you are a failure.It hurts to be REAL dosnt it?
FU, I retract that statement. As you know this is the case with most of the ex-IBO's. I guess I am a little oversensitive to this.I looked over your previous posts, and it appears as though you are a nice guy.Confused a little bit, but still nice.
I like your 4% theory. Now let me repost my theory.
$395,000 at a 40% "luxury" taxable rate (thanks to liberals & democrats) leaves you with $237,000 in an account earning 4% intrest nets you $9480 a yr divided by 12 months is $790!!!!!!!!!! The amount that you get for helping one person to platinum.
WOW, Q*PROUD did you do those numbers all by yourself? It's all bullcrap but I am sure it helps you justify everything. It is amazing the stuff you IBOs come up with. Brad links to a story that Quixtar is not going to help with, and you put together funny numbers for who knows why. Did your upline show you that during a meeting?
Success>> Any of you an IBO? well I am. Started about 2 months ago. Paid $30+ to sign up (did not buy a starter/intro pack), and I'm also paying $16/month for a website. Made my first purchase a few days later (about $200 worth of products that I no longer purchase at Ralphs, Albertson, Publix. Havent bought a single CD although I've listened to about 5 of them, and have been to 2 meetings (both free). Sold roughly 1,500 points already. Got my first check ($1000+) which evidently covers way more than the $62 ($30+$16+$16) I've invested. Now tell me, what's bad with this business?
Hey Mr. Success,
I am curious, are you sure it cost you only $30+ to register as an IBO? Surely you must know, you are a Quixtar IBO, right? Last I heard, it costs $47 to be precise, to register with Quixtar as an IBO.
And care to show us some actual "proof" of the numbers you are spouting? The $200 worth of products that you bought, for example? The Sold roughly 1,500 points already. Got my first check ($1000+).....
Truth, what's bullcrap about it? And what will help with the story i linked to?
Perspective, Mr. Success is close when he says $30+ to register as IBO and I can't see how you can register as a US IBO for $47 dollars as you say even if you swap things around. Here you will see finalized $ costs to register on Quixtar as IBO today.
FINALIZE REGISTRATION
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Review Registration Package
Quixtar Business Services and Support 31.00
IBOAI Support 9.00
IBOBA Insurance 5.00
Subtotal 45.00
Tax* 0.00
Service Charge 6.50
Total 51.50
*IBOBA Insurance and IBOAI Support are tax exempt.
you can opt out of the IBOAI support fee and IBOBA insurance in subquent renewals but not with first registration online. Don't forget the $6.50 service charge too.
Hello Perceptive:
You have your numbers wrong. I paid $31 to register, plus $5 for an insurance (that is $36). I was not forced to, neither did I purchase the intro pack that is $60 worth of products. (I mentioned that I am paying $16.40/month for a website).
A week or so after registering, I purchased $200 worth of products that I typically buy somewhere else, and only after comparing cost/benefits. I then talked to a few family members (2) and 3 friends. 2 registered, the other 3 are 'clients'. (I did not ask any to buy the intro pack or to buy some extra products upon signup). All purchased from me. Thats were the 1500 points come in... not from me buying $200 alone (that would have been roughly 50points). Now I already have another friend who is replacing their hometheater and flat screen system... they saw the one they want at CircuitCity, and viola... they will purchase it through me. Make me another % from that. This is like any other business: Careful analysis and research. Of course, some people will fail. Logic: Dont run out buying everything.
As for books/CDs, its unfortunate that people buy without much consideration. My sponsor, and my sponsor's sponsor, have never asked me to buy any CD. In fact, they give them to me. Any more questions (by the way... would you ask a McDonal's franchisee to show you proof that he's making $250,000 a year?)
That's the problem with some people... Perceptive says: "Last time I heard it cost $47"... To everyone: please get your sources/info right. It is so sad to see people talk about something they have limited info on. I could not dare judge a car wash franchisee if I have limited info about the business.
Just to say something about the number of people that fail: thats why you have to do research, avoid the errors people that people made and you have a chance at succeeding. Isnt that true for any line of business?
By the way, I'm writing off the computer I'm writing on for my tax returns... dont you think that's great?
By the way, I'm writing off the computer I'm writing on for my tax returns... dont you think that's great?
I want a Quixtar accountant! Mine won't let me write off anything that I can't prove I would not have bought outside of my business. I've heard IBOs claim to write off makeup, bowling trips, mileage and computers that they "would have purchased anyways." Is that legal? Has anyone had it cleared with a tax pro not associated with Quixtar?
I can't even write off my computer as my son has some games on it and I use it to write personal emails and lay on message boards. Plus, I would have a computer if I didn't own a business.
I guess my accountant is just conservative and not into fibbing about what was purely a business trip or what is only used for professional reasons. That's good, as I don't want dealings with any of those liberals I keep reading about ;)
So success, where did the check for $1000 come from?
And yes, if a McD franchisee was trying to sell me his franchise, I'd want detailed financial statements from him.
Now once and for all: Quixtar is not like McDonalds, and Quixtar is not a franchise in the true sense of the words. it's an MLM scheme. The comparison is flawed. Get over it.
Success,
I could have sworn, the last time I visited the official Quixtar website, I saw a page where it listed the actual Reg Fee (only, not the intro-pak) as $47 for the IBO, and $19-95 for "Member'. I checked now, and it says For around $117* or less you can sign up as an IBO to have an exciting internet commerce business of your own that offers you perks like these:
I agree, I was wrong on this count. See, Brad, it's not an unhealable wound ;-)...
Success>> That's the problem with some people... Perceptive says: "Last time I heard it cost $47"... To everyone: please get your sources/info right. It is so sad to see people talk about something they have limited info on. I could not dare judge a car wash franchisee if I have limited info about the business.
I am sorry, but getting the Reg. Fee amount wrong doesn't exactly mean I have'nt done research about the viability of the Quixtar Business. That is quite a stretch ;-)....
Success>> A week or so after registering, I purchased $200 worth of products that I typically buy somewhere else, and only after comparing cost/benefits.
Care to list what you bought for $200?
Success>> All purchased from me. Thats were the 1500 points come in...
Care to show us an actual screen-capture of your Quixtar-Account page? I would like to see what exactly it is that they bought?
Sucess>> Now I already have another friend who is replacing their hometheater and flat screen system... they saw the one they want at CircuitCity, and viola... they will purchase it through me. Make me another % from that.
Okay, this one I will give to you. Unless there's the exact same model on sale at a cheaper price at any other outlet (Fry's, Bestbuy etc...), yes you will make good money - I am guessing this purchase will be at least around $3500, right? BUT, this is a one-time purchase, it is not something you will see adding to your monthly PV, month after month - residual income, so to speak, in Quix-language.....
Sucess>> by the way... would you ask a McDonal's franchisee to show you proof that he's making $250,000 a year?)
YES, you would. IF he was trying to sell his McDonald's store to you.
This is one idea that Quixtar IBOs just don't seem to get. People don't randomly go up to people and ask to see proof of their income! But when you try to sell a business to somebody, you are obligated to reveal your financials as proof of your business' viability. AND, it is important for the prospective buyer to ask that question. Only a fool would buy/get-into a business without doing due diligence!
BRAD>> Truth, what's bullcrap about it? And what will help with the story i linked to?
I will tell you what's bullcrap about that, Brad. Q*PROUD is making the hilarious assumption that, that $790/mth just keeps coming every month without spending any additional money or effort! That whole "residual income" myth. Tell me, Q*PROUD, WHAT HAPPENS WHEN EACH OF THOSE PLATINUM LEGS LOSE PEOPLE BECAUSE OF CHURN/ATTRITION? Of course, of course, in the perfect world of Quixtar/Amway apologists, that could never happen!
And Brad, you need to stop repeating that really childish argument of yours - "If not Quixtar, then what". IRRELEVANT. We are discussing Quixtar's Viability as a business. That has nothing to do with alternatives.
Oh, btw, are you still up for my challenge? A thousand dollars is on the line.
What say you?
Okay, now that I've said what I wanted to say about stuff that really irked me. On a different tangent.
Brad, you might think that I am some kind of deranged Quixtar-hating zealot out to extract vengeance. Totally wrong. I am just frustrated that this fraud has taken such a toll, and our regulators are twiddling their thumbs, while our elected officials are sleeping, (and some of them are acting in concert with these thugs). I am passionate about justice. Nothing ticks me off more than people cheating/taking advantage of somebody. I can understand if this was a third-world country, and you didn't have "opportunity" so you steal. But this is the US of A - THE LAND OF OPPORTUNITY! You can make an honest living! I can give you at least half-a-dozen examples of immigrants that I know personally who came here (not knowing a lick of english - I can tell you some hilarious stories of their attempts at communication), and within three/four years had put a down-payment of 20-40 grand on a house! And after that, have a net worth of 20 grand! They worked hard, and scrimped and saved. And I am not talking about "Professionals", I am talking about people making $7-8/hr, cab-drivers, delivery-service drivers etc....
Your argument is that you can change the corporation from within. I disagree. It is rotten to the core. What have they done to the "Kingpimps"? They are still in business aren't they? When you buy goods from this unethical corporation, when you register as an IBO, I say you are enabling this fraud - you are complicit in the fraud that is being perpetrated on unsuspecting people by these unethical "Kingpimps". Secondly, I don't see any hope for this "business", even if the 'System Kingpins' are kicked out - Reason? Prices. And that's just the nature of the MLM business. The "Pyramid Premium" that has to be necessarily added to the products' pricing ensures that.
Let me reiterate Porkchopjim's very eloquent statement on an earlier thread:
"I will admit wholeheartedly that trolls and ogres do not participate in Quixtar. They do not recruit people at all hours of the night with the goal of exploiting them for financial gain. They truly believe they are helping people. But, and this is a big but, there comes a time as someone rises through the hierarchy that they finally realize what the money source actually is. That is a pivotal moment – and I submit that those who stay have truly sold their souls at the expense of yours."
I will make a leap and say EVERY CRITIC on here agrees with this statement. NO CRITIC will argue against the statement that most IBOs are good honorable people, with honorable intentions. BUT, their intentions don't necessarily change the very fundamentally flawed nature of the business. And you might want to read an excellent post by Truth, EROSION OF ETHICS. This "business" has a way of bringing that ugly side of people out. And I am positive if I got into this business, I would see my own ethics being eroded gradually, but unknowingly.
I truly believe you are an honest guy, a nice guy. I am a teetotaler, but if I were not, I think I would have a drink with you ;-)... But when you go to great lengths to defend this so-called "business"..... Ah, I am done.....
JanetM: Yes, you are correct, your accountant is being conservative. He signs the line approving the tax forms, right? If he does, then that means he can be held financially responsible in the case of false tax claims or an audit. CPAs are known to be very conservative.
Even so, drawing the lines for businesses in the home is very difficult. I am lucky that i can dedicate part of my home for business. If i was not doing a business, it would be used for something else, but because i dedicate that room (~7.5% of my house) i can write off a proportion of house payments with that ratio, ~7.5%.
It is good that you have a private accountant, that way you will be covered if anything were to come down in the way of Audits. More people should do this, it would save time if an audit were to pop up. Too much entertainment, exorbant house writeoffs, and too much mileage beyond the distance from place of residence/work to appointment (which must discount 'en route' mileage that would have been driven anyway, like from job to home) are all flags.
Just be smart everyone. And there are plenty of resources to read up on.
And DI, why do you want financial info? I dont think any one of the IBOs that stop by here want you, nor anyone else that takes all that is printed on the internet as 'proof', in their downline, :)
Now I'm having fun:
Janet: I definately encourage you to consult your personal accountant in regards to your finances and taxes. I bought the computer, for this business, its located in a section of the house dedicated exclusively to my business. I've got a phone for the business. Separate checking accounts, etc. (Just like any other businesss).But thats my reality. I would encourage you to talk to your own accountant. (I dont think bowling trips qualify for writeoff though). By the way, my cousin has a office-cleaning business which he runs from home... same thing. (by the way, I thought this business was full of Bible-loving conservatives. Funny you would say they are liberals).
For Don Incognito:
Hey, did I offer you a chance of buying my franchise? I dont think so!! So why should I share my personal financials with you... Now, if I met you and interviewed, and I thought you could be part of my team/organization (based on your qualifications), then maybe I would consider showing you the business plan. (please go and try asking McD for financial statements). Just like I wont hire just anyone to be part of my sales team in a previos job, I'm not in a hurry to signup people that are not cut for this line of business, and set them(and me) for failure. Think again...Not even McDonalds would show you checks or their financial statements. They would however, provide a detail report of what the business environment will be like, estimates of cost to operate, and potential revenue/profit. You see, not even McD can guarantee you any profit. Your business success is entirely dependent on other factors. (now, to be honest McD is not really the best example, but lets take as an example the different laundry, house-cleaning franchises).
Now, about whether its a franchise or MLM. Personally, call it whatever you will. Franchise, MLM scheme, whatever. Am I making some money out of it? Most definately!!
About the $1000+ check... when I sell Quixtar products retail, I make a profit. When my friends buy from CircuitCity, I make money. I'm waiting now for another friend to buy their hometheater system.
Please ask me more questions. ( I noticed no one is talking about the CDs anymore, hmmm).
Perceptive: thats ok... everybody is entitled to making 'honest' mistakes.
I dont know what other IBOs are doing or saying. But right now, I'm content with an additional $500 a month. (dont have to quit my job for that). and the extra money does not hurt me. ...Now, if you want this to be your ONLY business and do it full time, then Yes, please think it through, but you cant expect to invest less than$50 in any business and become rich on that.
I'll look into this, but I think you cant even 'sell' a McDonalds franchise. But I cant say this for sure... I'll look into it.
Thought you would be interested in these links about McDonald (please read the requirements in terms of time investment and costs, carefully).
http://www.mcdonalds.co.uk/pages/companyinfo/franchiseinfo.html
and
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/McDonalds
The first link has some info on how much it costs to open/operate a McD (in the UK).
I'll take up the rest of your questions in another post
Mr Perceptive, are you losing your cool? Why are you quitting? (at least it sounded so) I thought the free flow of ideas and debate was welcomed, by someone going by the name of Perceptive.
Hmmm..."For around $117* or less you can sign up as an IBO"... I assume that is either an average or a median. That was not my case. Now, if you want to have a lot of sample products to take with you all over the place or give out free (as you would probably do in any other venture), then you may consider buying some products initially. But every business is like that. Can you open a Ralphs, Publix, or Staters (in California) with no producs on your shelves?
It is good that you are researching the viability of the business. How much money are you planning on investing? what is your risk level? THe level of analysis will depend on the level of risk. If I'm going to invest 50, I'm not going to take the same approach as if I'm investing $10,000. I'm prepared to lose $500 on this new venture, if it works, it works; if it doesn, it doesnt. I will monitor my expenses and revenue carefully. My monthly 'expense' is the $16.40 I'm paying for the website.
Perceptive said: I am sorry, but getting the Reg. Fee amount wrong doesn't exactly mean I have'nt done research about the viability of the Quixtar Business. That is quite a stretch ;-)....
Success: hmmm. so what is stretching now? some of us can make mistakes, but cant tolerate others making mistakes, or getting their numbers wrong. Hopefully, this is not your case, Perceptive.
Perceptivesaid: Care to list what you bought for $200?
Success: I can send you a copy of a catalog. You'll see the different options available. There's drinks, meal replacement bars, health products, etc.
Perceptive said; Care to show us an actual screen-capture of your Quixtar-Account page? I would like to see what exactly it is that they bought?
Success: Same answer. I can give you a copy of a catalog. I cant share my clients information. (do u seriously expect to get a report from McD of who purchases from them? Oh, but I can give you my website, and a temp access code so that you can see the costs of products? send me your contact info to je_adden@yahoo.com
Perceptive said: I am guessing this purchase will be at least around $3500, right? BUT, this is a one-time purchase, it is not something you will see adding to your monthly PV, month after month - residual income, so to speak, in Quix-language.....
Success: I have no illusions about that. But do I care? nopes. I'm just getting money from what they would typically have gone directly to CircuitCity for. by the way, I also have Shop.com as a partner... u should check out that site. I dont expect to retire on this... I know that to get 500 a month, I may need to continue promoting my business to a few people a month, and reminding my friends that I do have a webstore where they can get everything they need (except for food).
Perceptive: YES, you would. IF he was trying to sell his McDonald's store to you.
Success: I'm not trying to sell u anything. But yes, please do your due diligence. If I thought you would make a good addition to my team, I may approach you. And yes, I would say, I've made $1000 in about 2 1/2 months, and I would probably show you my bonus checks. Cant promise anything though. just like McD cant promise u anything.
So r u angry at Costco and SamsClub for selling their membership if you want to buy in their store? should that be illegal?
I saw a mention about king pins--- I repeat, I've not bought one CD, attended 2 free seminars. But anyways, do I get angry because Britney Spears makes a royalty from her CDs? or that the record label gets the most and not my favourite artist? Is that illegal? should legislation be changed?
Man, if you feel so strongly about ethics, please dont buy anymore CDs, Books... dont get a coffee at Starbucks that costs you 5 bucks, while the coffee grower in Guatemale/Costa Rica, gets almost nothing from that. Theres lots more I could say...
PLease, come at me with all you have.
Success;
It definitely sounds like you are treating this much more like a business than most IBOs! If you are using the business solely for business purposes and not for, say, typing idly on websites, you are probably safe in writing off the depreciation of the computer. If you bought an extra-cheapy machine you might even be able to deduct the entire thing.
I do have an accountant, which is why I know 90% of the things IBOs come on saying they are writing off are illegal. For most of them, the ones who aren't treating their endeavors as more than a hobby, everything they write off is suspect. Several have come on this and the forum claiming that they write off their only phone line, their meals out with the spouse because the talked about the business, bowling trips because they tried to recruit someone, their personal computer because it's there, their mileage to the mall because they talked up the business while Christmas shopping, etc.
I am sorry for assuming that your "reality" was the same as that which I have read over and over from other IBOs. Have you read "On the Road with Dave?" I think he actually does the business plan, separate work area, real business thing too.
I'm sad and frightened that my blatant sarcasm about conservatives/liberals, one where I even destroyed any hint of subtleness (is that even a word?) by adding a winking emoticon, was lost on you.
Sad and frightened ;)
That's another bit of sarcasm Sweetie.
Seriously, keep tracking those expenses, don't drink the AMO kool-aid and learn not to waste time defending your calling and you'll be fine.
Most of the people here, myself included, are used to dealing with the large majority of the IBO field who believe that devoted listening to the latest CD, along with dream-building and creative accounting will replace a real financial education, hardwork and diligent retailing. If you're in the business or any length of time, you'll learn that that is one of the stereotypes people, online and in the real world, have about IBOs. You'll have to face that stereotype and deal with it. Claiming "I made $x in a month!" isn't a way, since that is part of the hype everyone has heard. Start off by showing how you treat the endeavor like a traditional business, it will go further in making you seem credible.
Again, check out "On the Road with Dave". He's an IBO that seems to be respected by critics and other IBOs alike.
I think I've had enough fun for today, but I'll be back tomorrow...
Ah, about McD... yes, you can buy a restaurant from another owner and not directly from the Corp. Ah! they require a minimum of $200,000 non-borrowed funds. (and u do have monthly fees and rent).
(So did you know McD is in the business of real-estate?)
This is the US McD site
http://www.mcdonalds.com/corp/franchise/purchasingYourFranchise.html
Please send me your toughest remarks or questions. But please, no wild guesses and dont take bad examples as your source of information.
Thanks JanetM.. I'll take a look at that book .hmm, or r u getting a cut from promotion... just kidding :-)
And ooopss... yes, I just saw your wink at me...that liberal line.
Yeah, I know, its sad that so many people fall into the buying CDs thing. Motivation and positive thinking is not a bad thing, but no one should be 'obligated' into that.
Business is business, treat it like a business, and you'll get far. Treat it as a hobbie, and you'll get nowhere.
again, I'll try to find the book you mentioned.
See ya guys... hasta la vista
Success,
I am not going anywhere ;-).... at least not yet. I was just implying that I was done trying to convert Brad - but hey, you never know, miracles have happened....
And here's a compliment for you: You are a breath of fresh air! You ACTUALLY understand P & L, ROI etc...!! *grin*
Please send me your toughest remarks or questions.
Oh, wow, do I sense another challenge ;-) coming?? But don't let that compliment get to your head, okay?
I'll be back.
Brad> And DI, why do you want financial info? I dont think any one of the IBOs that stop by here want you, nor anyone else that takes all that is printed on the internet as 'proof', in their downline, :)
DI> I don't want your financial info. I couldn't care less. I was simply giving "Success" an answer to his question: "would you ask a McDonal's franchisee to show you proof that he's making $250,000 a year?"
Reading comprehension, IBOs. It's a valuable skill. I suggest you learn it.
Success> Hey, did I offer you a chance of buying my franchise? I dont think so!! So why should I share my personal financials with you...
DI> See above. I don't give a damn about your income. I was answering your question, which you don't seem to remember.
Second, your business is hardly a franchise in the true sense of the word. Please stop using terms you don't understand to make your business seem more legitimate.
Success> Now, about whether its a franchise or MLM. Personally, call it whatever you will. Franchise, MLM scheme, whatever. Am I making some money out of it? Most definately!!
DI> What you don't seem to understand is that in this world there is a correct term for everything. To ensure complete honesty and accuracy, the correct term must be used to describe something. Whether you make money off of it has no bearing on what this business is called. Get it now?
Success> About the $1000+ check... when I sell Quixtar products retail, I make a profit. When my friends buy from CircuitCity, I make money. I'm waiting now for another friend to buy their hometheater system.
DI> What exactly did you sell to get a $1,000 monthly bonus
Success>( I noticed no one is talking about the CDs anymore, hmmm).
DI> So what? You IBOs have failed to prove that your business beats a 4% CD. I invite you to do it, if you can.
Success> So r u angry at Costco and SamsClub for selling their membership if you want to buy in their store? should that be illegal?
DI> What in the world are you talking about? Who said that Costco is illegal? Who said that Quixtar having membership fees makes it illegal? You're so overwhelmed with nonsensical tapespeak defenses that you're digging a hole for yourself.
Perceptive and I are officially kindred spirits now:
"Brad, you might think that I am some kind of deranged Quixtar-hating zealot out to extract vengeance. Totally wrong. I am just frustrated that this fraud has taken such a toll, and our regulators are twiddling their thumbs, while our elected officials are sleeping, (and some of them are acting in concert with these thugs). I am passionate about justice. Nothing ticks me off more than people cheating/taking advantage of somebody."
As for myself, I find this whole business based (at its very core) on the very un-Christian concept of "covetousness." The big shots parade on stage before their IBO minions, showing off their yachts, their watches, their mansions, their political influence, their "extreme freedom." And that's how they get you. Isn't that ironic?
geez you guys .... get a room! move it to the forum so we can all have some fun. ;-)
Don Incognito: Hmm, my business is not a franchise in the 'true sense of the word"... what true sense? there is a 'correct term for everything? hmmmm... ( not too sure of that)
Want to read up on franchising? just 'google' the term, and you'll get some 'interesting' definitions. When you're finished, let me know why MLM cant be considered a form of franchising.
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&oi=defmore&defl=en&q=define:FRANCHISING
(there are multiple definitions, but please see the 3rd definition... where individuals/corporations are given the right to market a product).
About the meaning of terms... who determines the meaning of a term? Now for a dose of education: Concepts move, meanings change. For example... if I told you I love my 'Community', what would you think on? on my neighborhood? this blog community? church community? 50years ago, that was not a problem: a community was basically a geographic setting. Today, we have multiple definitions of community. In any case, all I'm saying is that dont get bugged down because a concept is changing and expanding.
What did I sell to make $1000? Products. Want a catalog? when my clients enter my site, and buy Quixtar products, I obtain a profit. How many times do I need to explain this simple concept? (sorry... that didnt sound good). (please note that my $1000 does not include my $50 savings on the products I bought for myself).
About the CDs... actually, I was referring to the motivational CDs. Let me see if I remember my Graduate Finance classes... lets tackle your 4% CD. How much money would you need to put in the bank to get $500 per month? Or lets say, you dont believe I got $1000+ in 2 months... lets say I only got back a $50 check PROFIT.... how much do you need to put in the bank to get back $600 for the year? I guess that will answer your question about the 4% CD.
Now, in my case, what was my ROI? I spent about $60, and got back $1000 in 2 months? please help me do the math.
Moving on... This section goes for TrueBeliever also...About Costco? Someone was disparaging about ethics and morals... I was just making a point about the business world. Have u ever wondered how much membership fees account for profit in Costco/SamsClub, etc. ? have u given thought that the coffee you drink may have caused the death of a minor? People say that the 'king-pins' are making money from their 'tools'... so what? if I made a good book, I'll expect royalty. I only encourage IBOs to think wisely before spending a lot of money on seminars and CDs.
There's nothing illegal about the business system. I assume you are also against the mid-night infomercials that promise you how to make millions on real-estate.
Perceptive... thanks for the compliment. Looking forward to some more constructive dialogue.
Success, here's some discussion about franchise and MLM. See if you like to argue against my points (it's near the end of the thread).
http://www.webraw.com/quixtar/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2516&highlight=
Success
You moved 1500 points and made $1000 yourself? I would like for you to expain that?
Don't keep the secret to yourself! Tell the other Ibo's so they can do it too! I bet it won't be long till you have a collection of CD's to give free to other people. Ask your Upline when you start buying them why they cost 7.50 and can be made for less than a dollar? I hear in Oasis they are a dollar or less and the company makes them to cut out the kingpins plus they have everything free online!
Brad
I hope you are taking note of your compadre QProud -
"Q*>Lets get to the "REAL STORY" Are you a deranged ex-IBO who lives on the web fervently bashing Q*? That "cutesy" slogan probably made you mad huh? How dare you try to steal someone elses dream because you are a failure.It hurts to be REAL dosnt it?
FU, I retract that statement. As you know this is the case with most of the ex-IBO's. I guess I am a little oversensitive to this.I looked over your previous posts, and it appears as though you are a nice guy.Confused a little bit, but still nice."
BRAD - I hope you are paying attention. This guy is one of your business associates. Do you want to involve yourself with guys like that?
Keep doing the numbers son. Dont let the whackos steer you off course.
Yeah Ray I think Successful has a lot of explaining to do.
For 1, he can show his pv/bv to dollar conversions. It doesnt seem to add up does it.
2ndly he can do his own ROI calculations. As a self proclaimed grad student he should be able to handle it with ease.
3rdly he can retract his statement about mcdonalds. As a publicly traded company you can get their full financial disclosure at any time. His mistake there makes me think that he really is not a grad student :>
SUCCESSFUL THIS IS FOR YOU. I HOPE YOU ARE PAYING ATTENTION
I stand by the 4% CD. This is a marathon not a race. A 4% will consistently return year after year.
If you can beat it then great. Just show us your year-over-year ROI. You will shut a lot of people up and win over a bunch of new recruits if you can do it.
It looks like you are off to a roaring start (possibly) so I am sure you will be very proud to show your results at the end of the year.
We are all looking forward to it.
GOOD LUCK
My friend Ray.....oh my oh my.... do u know anything about MLMs? ... yes, I personally moved 1,500 points, but what about the 2 individuals I registered, they also moved PV/$ personally, and also registered people. You see, the beauty of this is that i dont rely only on what I accomplish... (are you beginning to get the picture? Also, when I booked a 2-weeks hotel for some friends going to Florida (no PVs for that, but I get 30%), who do you think stayed with the 30%. By the way, I'm totally honest with my friends. But instead of giving the money to Clarion, they decided they would put their money with me. Can u see me making the $1000, now?
About McDonalds... sure, u can get the financial figures for the Corp, but not for the one at the corner of your community. They may give it to you, if they feel that you have what it takes (skills and MONEY) and are serious (to want to really purchase one). Did you read their site... they expect you to own the place for 20years and have $200,000 in non-borrowed funds!
oh and Ray... most IBOs already know how to make money. I'm not inventing the wheel. What I am doing is making sure my expenses are kept in check (and Im teaching my team the same principles). About the motivational CDs...I dont need to buy CDs/Books/Seminars. I guess you cant get over that part yet, heh? You are SURPRISED.... I can see your face right now. Cant believe it, right?. In any case. If I have had a car dealership and had a sales team, wouldnt I want to make sure they are trained, equipped and motivated? I could do that by taking them on retreats, giving them books to read, or by sharing CDs. I guess thats normal. Just in case you dont know, that is the principle behind Leadership Development/Org Dev/ and successfull HR Management. Of course, I would not spend more money on HR training than what I'm getting in revenue. Does that make sense?
RLaurens: Did you follow the link about definitions of Franchise. Friends, remember concepts change, definitions expand. (hope you liked that 'community analogy). Please Dont get hang up because the definition you learnt in Highschool is no longer the only valid one. Now, I did not write any of those definitions (on google), but I can certainly see MLM fitting into several. Can u identify which ones? :-)
Now to Fu: About doing my own ROI... dont you know the best way to teach is to ask questions? (was that Socrates or Aristotles? :-) Of course, I know how to do my ROI... but I guess after u did the maths that u 2 would be impressed. (by the way... I'm way past grad school, but that is beside the point. Not that grad school or postgrad school makes one a Omniscient)
Ok... going back to the 4% CD... I already beat your 4% return. In any case, to make matters worse (for you) I dont have to match your percentage, I only have to get more $$ than your actual return. I'm sure you dont have enough money to get back $500 per year on a 4% CD. Of course, you run no risks with CDs, and thats why the return is so LOW. Assuming that I only make $50 PROFIT per month ($600 annum), you'll need to come up with good amount of money to beat my return, in any first or subsequent years. By the way, I do expect to make more in my second year, So I'll always beat your meager 4%.
Finally, yes, I know some people sell the dream of mansions in the beach.... thats not my dream. I'm only testing a business concept, and if it yields a profit, its fine. My extra $100, $200, or $500 a month goes a long way to support the charities of my preference.
Please keep them coming!!
Success wrote:
"What did I sell to make $1000? Products. Want a catalog? when my clients enter my site, and buy Quixtar products, I obtain a profit. How many times do I need to explain this simple concept? (sorry... that didnt sound good). (please note that my $1000 does not include my $50 savings on the products I bought for myself)."
Q: what rhymes with 'Success'?
Ans: excess;
Q: what rhymes with excess?
Ans: ex-lax
Q:what does ex-lax give you?
Ans: a lot of crap.
So, Success = a lot of crap.
You can't bullcrap the bull
Fu, i'm behind QProud on this one...
Heres what i am coming to realize, again... You guys are not the first at this, nor will you be the last. Count up all of you diehard, passionate, qstar fighters... what do you come up with? Get your army together, read some Sun Tzu, then go after the corporation...
But seriously... what do you know that the rest of the world doesnt? (perhaps the FTC Judge, or corporate lawyers, or perhaps Cham of Comm) Dont get me wrong, i admire your passion. It drives my life as well.. but seriously, you come on here and scream from your platform "scam scam scam"... yet, a lot more groups and high profile individuals/institutions have attached their name to people and companies you say fuel the corruption.
YOu say all those partner stores did it for the money... yes they did. But are they not fueling the 'evil' as well? They have just made another, upstanding 'endorsement' in this business. YOu cannot claim an IBO is fueling the evil without mentioning: FTC for approving the numbers, the judges and their statement about Amway, all the supporters of the MOs, scientific boards/universities tied in with Nutrilite, supporters/promoters of NAO, artistry, and satinique... on and on.
There is a reason the corporation is not worried about you, or Eric S, or Bo S, or anyone else. Where is Schwartz now? Where are the critics of the 40s, then the 50s, then the 60s, and so on... ??
Q, I'm with you. The forum is fun at times, as Insider says: everyone can have fun there. Let's hang there more often. Perceptive and Fu, and others, do not care for our side of things. And that is clear. collect responses from them so when your prospects come along here, you can show them some of their responses. Some they might not have seen. I am sure Fu, et al, will point out my ROI blunder, but i'm ok with that.
P, e-mail is on it way soon. But, i can't say it is a high priority. I wont forget it, but it's not like we dont have another 3 1/2 years, right? Plus it's st patty's coming on friday, everyone should go out and have some good Irish fun! enjoy a car-bomb or two for me:-)
Fu, continue enlightening IBOs ont he ROI thing. That is important to know. Also, tell them to swing by the SBA.gov website where they can get the low-down on that and other things to help with business plans and the like.
Laters everybody.
Success may have recieved a grad degree, but he got it in the mail or in a box of cracker jacks! No way is this guy a student of any real buisness discipline.
Stay in the game Success. Lets see where you are at the end of this year and the next year and the year after that.
No one else has been able to knuckle up to a solid 4% return. Maybe you can be the man to do it?
Guys, please counter ideas with ideas.
Poor Willy: Now he's become a poet. The cat bit his tongue? YOu've got to have some more arguments than making ryhmes. Please try to show errors in my numbers or reasoning. They did the same to Galileo... they didnt believe him so they killed him. He makes a poem, but never offers one bit of argument to suggest that my numbers/calculations are wrong.
Same for Fu: Poor little children. Now, you cant refute my observations, so now you have to try to attack the person. That is sooo pathetic. Wow, doesnt it make you feel so bad that a guy that got his grad degree in a box/mail is actually beating you in a debate of ideas and arguments? that really must suck!!!
Please bring some real arguments. Didnt I just beat your 4% return in my first month alone! Now, as long as I dont make my expenses outrun my income, I already made more money than your 4%. I thought you knew your stuff.
Now, lets continue this excercise... I currently have about $50 bucks in expenses (its really $16 for my website), but lets say I have $100 of fixed expenses/cost. And I sold $600 (4 families purchased $150 each) and I get 30% of the sale... that means my revenue is actually $180. So my net profit is $80 (before tax-if I want to be exact with uncle Sam). So I invested $100, made $180, profit is $80... do u know what my ROI is?
Again, did u figure how much money you need to have in the bank to make $500 a year on a 4% CD? I guess that now that you worked out the numbers, you are soo embarrass to admit that you probably will never have that kind of money. and if you do... good for you. So are you going to open a McDonalds, or perhaps a Maid-by-Minute? If you are worried about losing a $60 investment, then it really makes me wonder.
Guys, if you cant play the game, dont play. Please counter my ideas with better ideas or arguments. Not with poetry and diatribe.
You know what?... actually, I think I respect the ex-IBOs that tried and failed, more than those that have never been involved, yet feel they know so much.
Business is about contemplating/evaluating risks. So u cry for $60? how about $200? Of course, everyone should learn to manage their busines so that revenue exceeds expenses. So far, I've managed to do that. If I ever realize that my income is lower than expenses, then obviously its time to quit. (I've heard so many sob stories of supposedly IBOs that lost 1000+ in the business... well, that is just so lousy. To think I cant manage my business... it probably means I'm also deep in debt, because I cant manage my personal budget).
Bottom line is common sense. Before, I spent money all over the place. Now, I have a personal shop. I select the products I want to buy (depending if they compare across cost/benefit to others). I also have acces to 100+ stores that I've used in the pass, but never got a dime for it. I paid about the same I paid for my costco card, but I now get discounts and money back... and you ask me why I do it? dah???
I'm having so much fun!!!
Please, please. Keep the arguments coming.
FU, man Ive blown out that 4% return long ago.
I was trying to be civil with you. I stand behind the statement I originally made. I retracted it, to not offend someone who was not being offensive. You try to be nice, however you DO have a quality that most of the deranged ex-IBO's have. You simply do not respond to facts.
This is the case with most ex-IBO's I think the underlying reason for this can be traced to the fact that, thousands and thousands of people succeed in this business. ex-IBO's did not.
They can not ,and do not want to concede to the fact that they have no one to blame but themselves! If they at anytime give concession to Q* being a good opportunity, then they would be essentially admiting their failure.
Notice that they all say that EVERYTHING is BAD there is no GOOD in Q* this is a scam, that is a scam, this person is a "kingpin",products are overpriced,its not a franchise, its ALL bad.
The only negative thing about Q* is that anybody with (in Texas) $70 can sign up. So you end up with people who are hoping Q* will be the lottery and be a free pass to success.
If you notice. nowhere do these failures compare themselves to the people who are making money, and say "Man,that guy sure worked the business a whole lot harder than I did."Instead, failures try to rip people who are having a good experience, totally baffled by the fact that they are doing well. Failures cant believe it. Because that would mean that it IS possible and THEY couldnt do it.
To anybody out there that is reading this and is contemplating starting a business powered by Q*. Realize that it is not get rich quick,overnight success, or a free ride. That kind of thinking will severely hurt you.It takes time, money and hard work. As any other business you may start would.But whatever you do, if it ends up not being for you,dont spend hours upon hours behind a computer screen, arguing about start up costs, ROI's, business degrees,screenshots,4% returns or any other pointless arguments ultimately trying to steal other peoples dreams because it did not work for you.(read you did not work it!)
Next, in refrence to the fact that in order to make the residual profit month after month that you COULD have from helping ONE person reach the platinum level (and $790 is the very minimum you would make) you would need to have BANKED $395,000 dollars in an account earning fu's favorite 4% interest. This is what one deranged ex-IBO failure had to say:
Truth>WOW, Q*PROUD did you do those
numbers all by yourself? It's all bullcrap but I am sure it helps you justify everything. It is amazing the stuff you IBOs come up with. Brad links to a story that Quixtar is not going to help with, and you put together funny numbers for who knows why. Did your upline show you that during a meeting?
Answer:
Q*> Yes I did come up with those #'s.Do the math genius. The numbers are NOT funny, they are VERY serious. In fact you are going to work your entire life to prove them, and still die broke.Sadly, all that you would have to do to avoid this is admit that you are a failure, learn first from others mistakes and then from your previous mistakes, re-adjust and try again.Most people dont make it past admiting failure though. I think you can be different Truth. Try it I believe in you.
Continue discussion in the QBlog Forum
I guess this topic hasn't been exhausted yet... but here's my take on it:
Qstar is a twist on the original because of:
1) The online element
2) Direct Ordering/Shipping
3) All payouts handled by the corporation
It isn't called 'Amway' in the UK, is it? ANd it is called Quixtar in North America, not limited to just US. Dont forget about them Canadians!
And, don't you think when it goes online, the other countries might switch? Perhaps...
Oh, and don't forget the favorite answer "Because Amway had a bad name, they had to change it and hope no one noticed, and looks like their gonna have to change Qstar soon too" I'm sure that is the opinion of some folks here, it's not mine.
Cheers.
Posted by: Brad | March 11, 2006 8:13 PM