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February 25, 2006
Ten Thousand To Four Hundred
By QBlog in Quixtar
Did you know that if you took a random sampling of 10,000 Quixtar IBOs and followed them for just five years there would only be about 400 left in that original group?
That's right. Only about 400 of a group of 10,000 will renew as Quixtar IBOs after five years.
What I'd like to know is how much money the non-renewing 9,600 spent before leaving the business. Anyone want to take an educated guess?
Comments
Spent on what? Tools and system only? Or overpriced and sometimes useless products as well? For example, most of those who leave stop using Double-X. So do you account for those types of spending too? If so, the numbers could be significantly higher...
I don't think you can count the purchase of products. Why? Because who counted the purchase of their products BEFORE they started their Quixtar business as a loss? I sure know I didn't...
I would agree with xanadustc. That is the tools, tapes and functions.
On second thought, that is inaccurate. If I based it solely on how my business expenses have been, and not how the group has been, then that is a fair dollar assumption. Sadly, the majority of those who terminate their relationships with the Quixtar team do not buy tapes, go to functions, or even attempt to make a retail sale.
From what I’ve seen, the pattern of the IBO who quits is one who stops purchasing everything for several months. It usually starts with missing a major function, then the tape program goes, and then their PV drops off. I would say the last year the person is "in" would be about $200 to $300. Not including products.
Perhaps I should restate my point differently... Accross the board, AmQuix products are more expensive, even at IBO prices. Whenever the "oh-it's-concentrated" and "it's-cheaper-per-use" argument cannot be used, we hear from tapes and from the stage "yes, it's more expensive, but treat it as in investment". As such, shouldn't these kinds of "investments" (the price deltas) be also counted when answering QBlog's question? That goes for the everyday products that you would use regardless of the business.
Now, there is a whole other category of products that an overwhelming majority of people would never use had it not been for being in the business. This is evidenced by the fact that they never used them before the business and then stopped after they left (let's spare each other dwelling on exceptions to this - they obviously do exist, but I am making a true general observation). Double-X is an example. The vitamins are promoted almost as much as the functions and the SOTs. Some groups even elevate the use of Double-X as a requirement for being "core" and, again, as an investment into your business. So why shouldn't these things be counted too?
I just heard a Quixtar rep quote that the average american goes to the store an average of 6.2 times per week!!! WHO GOES TO THE STORE 6.2/WK!!! I've NEVER been to a store 6.2 times in a week in my entire life.
Your information is simply flawed. The renewal rate of about 50% applies only for the newly registered IBOs, i.e. those who need to renew for the first time. Those who are distributors for 2 or more years have much higher renewal rate. That means there will be more IBOs than just 400.
Would you like to know the amount of money they spend? That's easy. As they are usually inactive, they only spend their money on starter kit. Unless they are complete idiots, they cannot lose money on the system as buying of books, tapes and tickets is strictly voluntary. An inactive person usually doesn't attend seminars and buy tapes. So how much money do these people bring into the system. It's close to zero. How much they bring to Quixtar? Some paid for their starter kits and those who are not satisfied with products will most probably return their kits, so they didn't bring anything at all.
Some of the products are more expensive, and some products are purchased that some people would not have purchased before, simply because we are encouraged to try the product so that we know it. I was never pressured to purchase a particular product, or increase my spending habits. If anything, my line of sponsorship has tried new things for the last five years to cut our spending and increase our profits. As XY stated, the majority of those that quit didn't do anything to begin with because they saw the products as "more expensive." I have been having a conversation with Perceptive on the whole cost thing, and if you do it the way you are taught, at FULL Quixtar RETAIL prices on the main products that they "promote", you can actually save money. I know, I have been keeping track for five years... As for going to the store that often. I wonder if they are counting the once-a-day trips to coffee shops, malls, or dine-in places? Then I could see that average being close... If you do count the "more expensive" procuts, then you should only count the EXTRA money you are spending on those products, not the entire cost...
We had a net loss of $19,000 and some change in 05' in our AmQuix biz. Our biz... our decision to spend the money - I take ownership and resposibility for that... obviously. We spent on the "system", way too much inventory, and traveled at our discretion for functions and expansion.
What I don't appreciate about the "you need this system to succeed" is that my experience with my LOS and WWDB - is that they want you to invest a lot of time and money in training - but they don't give an ounce to biz or financial management. "Just have faith..."
Actually, your information is flawed. Ask Quixtar how many IBOs are, on average, still renewing out of a group of 10,000 after five years.
That's what I thought.
Next.
I may be an exception, but I go to the store every day.
I joined before i found this site. I sent a letter straightaway to cancel my IBO after reading here and few other sites you linked. I was in the scheme for 2 weeks tops. I spent intro fees so around £200/$350 but i consider that money saving to what i would have lost if i had stayed in there for 2-3 years as some of the stories on here.
What I'd like to know:
- What percentage becomes core? How long do they stay core, on average? (We already have an idea on what happens when they disconnect.)
- Buying habits for the non-core IBOs (What do they buy, when do they buy it?)
- What gets purchased by IBOs that they wouldn't have done otherwise? We know about vitamins, what about breath spray and water filtration systems?
- Other changes? Do regular vacations become Quixtar Rally Trips? Do book (and tape/CD) purchases change, or are they added on at the start only to dissipate afterwards?
- Finally, how much (on average) ends up being placed on the Credit Card only to be repaid later, putting a (major) crimp on future purchases? Since the Bankrupcy law has been changed, I wouldn't be surprised to find more former IBOs under cash-flow duress from the spending they had thought they could get out from before the change.
We may never know for sure, but I would have to guess it's a lot of money!
$2,000 dollars a year isn’t that bad of investment vs. 15-35k a year for five years of college. With no 100% guarantee of finding and/or liking the “carrier†in your field. Maybe the Quixtar drop-outs should of finished there IBO degrees, do all their work, and build a solid business properly
i know that if you wanted to be a leader you had to do 300 pts a mo. which equals between $750 - $1000.
The weekly meeting = $28 for self or $56 per couple
the monthly meeting = $18 for self or 36 per couple and another $18 apiece for leadership before the monthly.
monthly system (book & tapes) $86 for regular and another $37 for leadership also.
3 major functions at $115 per ticket plus travel & hotel
that adds up to alot of money that the majority of IBO's will never recover.
I know for me that we lost thousands trying to do what they called a proven system!!!! some will make it (very few) but most are just being used and now with this so called apprentice leg (stacking is what i'd call it) you are being used to build up someone's leg who has been around for a long time but not getting anywhere.
coachd
Dr. A> $2,000 dollars a year isn’t that bad of investment vs. 15-35k a year for five years of college. With no 100% guarantee of finding and/or liking the “carrier†in your field. Maybe the Quixtar drop-outs should of finished there IBO degrees, do all their work, and build a solid business properly
Joe> Problem is that college grads make money when they graduate, the quixtar school of learning never ends and hardly anyone makes money.
Who calls Quixtar a scheme? that person is ignorant, why would Circuit City be our partner, why would Bill Gates be our partner, how come my family makes money.
Hmm... you guys should argue about politics or something that might do you more good, stop stealing peoples' dreams.
If you are still complaining, then you are one of those people who "wouldn't make it"
the system isn't built for pansies and sissies in chat rooms.
I apologize, I was a little rude, but I don't apologize.
G'Day
Keep drinking the kool-aid. Nice try. Search dateline NBC and quixstar on google and download the 15 minute report thagt aired a year or so ago. Enough said, quixstar is a money-losing cult. Period.
"the system isn't built for pansies"
The system isn't built for success either. Otherwise there would indeed be a pattern of success instead of a long, unfortunate history of losses.
For a single peron about $6,000 a year just on products and then about $2000 or more on functions (including hotel and ticket). Then about $1000 or more on books, tapes and email and voicebox produced by the upline diamond.
Bill Gates isn't a Quixtar partner. Quixtar HIRED Microsoft to do some work on their website. Circuit City isn't a partner in the sense that Quixtar and Circuit City have a joint venture operation. Rather, Quixtar is a vendor of Circuit City products. Would you say Coke is a partner with Wal-Mart? Wal-Mart does sell Coca-Cola products. No, they are not partners in the traditional sense, but have a wholesale/marketing vendor relationship, much the way Circuit City has with Quixtar.
As for the system, to coin a phrase from years ago, "Where's the beef?" Quixtar has been around for nearly 7 years, and Amway a long time before that. But how many diamonds are there, and how many break in a given year? If the plan worked, there'd be hundreds of new diamonds a year. But simply put, the plan does not work as advertised. At best, 1 in about 14,000 ever make it to diamond, and 50% of all IBO's quit their first year. That is not success.
Is Quixtar having to ride the shirt tails of everybody? The people in the business want to ride these big so-called names but drop the Amway name far away! Amway is bigger than Quixtar and they are not very proud of their sister company! Are you ashamed of your family? Only if they do things that are bad!
Big Myth, microsoft isn't a quixtar partner.
Hey, anyone remember that Enron and MCI Worldcom were also quixtar partners?
And......
Quixtarians brag about their partner stores, but how many partner stores sell quixtar products?
Dick Sanderson, yeah, watch that Dateline release, then go to www.quixtarresponse.com and get their side of it too. I watched the show during it's first airing, and was impressed at how they twisted things around. Ask my family, who called to "save me" from the cult while it was airing. They got an ear full. In short, if the line of sponsorship you are looking to work with does what Dateline showed, DO NOT get involved!
This business is designed to work only if you make it work. It also takes just that-WORK. I have been an IBO for 3 months and it is working just fine for me. We used to spend an average of $100 per week at Wal-Mart between our necessities and our "impulse" buys. When we started, we were taught simply to convert $250 of our "already spending" money to Quixtar products. You can spend more if you like, but all IBO's are encouraged to do 100 PV. I had sticker shock at first, but we decided to try some of the products anyway. Quixtar has a 180 day money back (including applicable shipping) guarantee. I knew going in that I could return a product for any or no reason without question. The majority of our products cost us twice as much as Wal-Mart brands, but have lasted 3 times as long. We still buy some of our products from Wal-Mart, such as paper products (which have outrageous shipping fees through Quixtar). When our Bonus grows to a higher level, the more expensive items will begin to pay for themselves.
As for other expenses, we are encouraged, but not pressured, to attend all functions. Our weekly meetings are $5/head to help pay for the room. We also have open house meetings which are free. Big weekend conferences are about $85/person. I haven't made it to one of those yet for that reason. There is an optional weekly CD and monthly book you can purchase. Which adds up to around $35/month. I found these to be very educational, and well worth it, but I know a lot of IBO's who do not get them. That is about the end of the expenses for us. I have heard of IBO's taking prospects out for dinner and other activities which will obviously add up fast, but we were taught not to do that.
When it comes to expenses, I hope most of you realize these are tax deductions...
All first time ordered products, all mileage to and from meetings, all CD's, tapes and books, all business meeting costs, etc. We also wrote off a portion of our computer, internet, and cell phone bills, not to mention utility bills and taxes applicable to the percentage of the house we use as our office.
Being a Quixtar IBO can have its advantages and disadvantages, just as any other business ownership venture you may choose to pursue.
If you like working at a regular job and sending your kids to daycare, Quixtar may not be for you. If you come in open minded and driven, you can make it happen. It all depends upon the time and effort you are willing to give to make yourself successful.
Woods> When our Bonus grows to a higher level, the more expensive items will begin to pay for themselves.
Joe> It's good if it works for you, but when your bonus grows to that level, you will have many downline who don't. In other words, there will always be many lower level IBO's who aren't getting a good deal, for the few who do.
That's the system. Also, if you ever get "serious" about the business, you will be expected to partake of more and more "tools" and these expenditures are likey to gobble up your bonuses and then some.
Yes, people can make money in quixtar, but more likely than not, it's at the expense of their downline.
Creylish, Woods, Mr. Successful, et al:
I am glad you are here to present you side of the story. In fact I am so glad that you are here that I would encourage you to stay.
I am offering you a challenge. Let's call it the "FU 4% challenge". All you have to do is show compound business growth of 4% or more in each and every year you are active.
'Why 4%?' you ask? Its simple. As of right now, anyone with any money can go into a bank and invest that money into a Certificate of Deposit (CD). Each year, that CD will yeild a 4% return on investment.
If you can't show a 4% return, then your "business opporunity" is no better than the lowest-yeilding and most rudimentary investment option.
And if you cant do that then YOU MAY WANT TO RETHINK WHAT YOU ARE DOING
'How do I track my progress' you ask?
Simple, just submit your year-end Schedule Cs to the guy who runs this site. Be sure to block off any sensitive info. other than the #s that is!
You guys sound like a bunch of newbies so it will be great to track your progress right from the get go. GOOD LUCK
Creylish, Woods, Mr. Successful, et al:
I am glad you are here to present you side of the story. In fact I am so glad that you are here that I would encourage you to stay.
I am offering you a challenge. Let's call it the "FU 4% challenge". All you have to do is show compound business growth of 4% or more in each and every year you are active.
'Why 4%?' you ask? Its simple. As of right now, anyone with any money can go into a bank and invest that money into a Certificate of Deposit (CD). Each year, that CD will yeild a 4% return on investment.
If you can't show a 4% return, then your "business opporunity" is no better than the lowest-yeilding and most rudimentary investment option.
And if you cant do that then YOU MAY WANT TO RETHINK WHAT YOU ARE DOING
'How do I track my progress' you ask?
Simple, just submit your year-end Schedule Cs to the guy who runs this site. Be sure to block off any sensitive info. other than the #s that is!
You guys sound like a bunch of newbies so it will be great to track your progress right from the get go. GOOD LUCK
Woods> "...Our weekly meetings are $5/head to help pay for the room..."
Dear Woods: at the next weekly meeting, would you be so kind to:
- try to count the number of $5-paying IBOs
- figure out how much has been collected for the night
- go to your meeting's host (should be a Platinum or above), and ask him how much the hotel charges for the room
- then ask him what he does with the difference, and why he is making money on what's supposed to be "just enough to cover the room"
My bet the answer is going to be "oh, I'm collecting for all those years when there was not enough people to cover the cost and I paid out of my pocket to support my business because I've been always soooo committed"
Also ask Dexter or your Upline how 35,000 people paying $85.00 each is fair for them to take and split any way they like and you did'nt learn how to buiild your business but you are "Fired UP"!
PS That's $2,975,000.00
When I joined, I actually read the compendium front to back.
I saw 2 red flags:
-
1. had to have 10 retail customers
2. they had a 'form' called "Ibo to Member" registration form.
I thought "there is something wrong here, when they actually need a form to downgrade people from an Ibo to a Member"
I thought there would be a natural progression from "Member TO Ibo", not the other way around. That seemed like negative growth to me.
Well,there WAS something wrong. I found out 6 years later.
LESSON: LISTEN to your gut feelings.
Woods,
JoeCool and BB are on to something:
Just wait and see if this prophecy doesn't come true: as you stay in longer and get more 'serious' about the business, the 'encouraged to go' will change to 'discouraged from not going'. Big difference.
Also, don't bother asking your meeting host how much the room cost – just ask the front desk. They can also tell you if he gets a discount for being a regular ‘renter.’ Then, do the math yourself. So what if he told you he only charges enough to cover the room but appears to make a profit? So what if he admits he gets a profit but it’s one of the perks of being his level? That’s not what he told you in the first place, was it? You’ll start seeing a lot more of that – especially as you gain in ‘pin’ level, and the promised windfall of money fails to appear. P.S. – when you get to that point, it is not your fault for not working the business ‘hard enough’ – and you certainly have more people to blame than just yourself: they’re called your benevolent upline.
Responding to Open Meeting ?s (and a shout out to Fu, good to see your stealing of a challange rather than accepting one offered to you. "Newbies" - he did not accept my challenge a few posts back, there is no reason to accept his. He hides behind this post. note: JoeCool did accept it, and it has been resolved offline):
Our open is held in a hotel room, like many others. The cost is $5 if at 7:45 or before, and $6 7:45 on, to encourage being there early. (this is common in anything, so dont even try to argue it, i really dont want to pull all the events that have differing prices depending on when you get there/buy ticket)
The room currently costs $200 to rent (originally it was $300 to rent, but due to the competition in the area, the fact we are regulars, and we are dressed properly and most well behaved of their meeting groups or guests, we got a discount after 3 weeks). We have regularly 25-35 paying IBOs at the meeting. You add that up, it comes to a loss, of $75 to $25 dollars. Where is the extra money coming from? The last room, before this upgrade, only costed $125. It was in a lower grade hotel. Any extra $$ was put into an "Open Meeting" account controlled by the person responsible for the meeting, and over seen by the upline Emerald.
The profit from the earlier meetings were then put into covering this new room (or times when the Open did not have enough people, weather/holiday/etc) for as long as we can. When it grows, and we surpass the $200 price tag, and have not yet needed a further upgrade to a new room that costs $350+ that we have our eye on, it will be used for sound equipment, and product samples for high achievers/new IBOs. New exclusive products, as well as favorites such as XS drinks and energy bars, will be available to those that did the best in their business the last week. (this was a consensus discussed with the upline Emerald, and voted on by regular attendees of the meeting)
When the time comes that the extra money is above and beyond what is needed for products, and sound equipment is purchased, the ticket will be between $2 and $4. Payment is still reguired to pay for the room, and allow slack in the case of drastric swings in attendence due to weather, functions, etc or to help pay for "play days" (as we call them in our organization) where the group gets together at an outdoor camp type area where grilling, sports, games, and some teaching are done. (O my gosh! IBOs that have fun! ponder that paradox for a while...)
The fund is NOT pocketed by the meeting operator, nor the Emerald above. The above statements by critics are based on hearsay or few, one by one, individual experiences (or more likely, percieved experiences) and should not be applied as a blanket statement.
I hope this cleared it up for you, BB and others.
(As newbies, please refer to the Rules of Conduct of IBOs on the Qstar page, and IBOAI, and it clearly states that you, even as a new IBO, have a voice to give ideas to how things are run. If you get a poor answer from your upline, do not let it sacrifice your dream. If they are doing something that you do not think is right, call the corporation and ask for options. You control the success of your business, not your upline, and DEFINITELY not these people on this website. You can be a strong person of change by taking action or you can be a weak person of discontent by just sitting on these things complaining -directed at a majority of the self proclaimed critics)
A little more from me: I have decided, as stated before, I don't really like arguing, but I do like uplifting people that are being unfairly beaten down. So, here is some more PROOF for all you critics out there.
IBOs Say: Partnerships, not a cult/scheme because ___ people are involved
You say: Partners aren't involved, they are just hired/partnered with/they dont sell Qstar products.
OK, so all you business savy, so in the know about Qstar, people- heres a list for you. Yes, it's from the o-so-scary, not allowed as credible evidence (to you, because it is something very strong against your stance, and wont even be allowed on WIKI which i think is a bunch of manure) site www.thisbiznow.com
This list is of companies whose business leaders have either provided a recording, or statement (OPEN TO ALL TO HEAR AND READ), regarding their approval/enjoyment/hearty endorsement of Qstar and their business with them.
After this, if you are to say Qstar is a scheme, or the "partners" arent "partners" you are discounting the FACT- OBVIOUS FACT- that these people attached their name to these statements and have thus put their own, and their companies, credibility on the line to say it. (I dare to say: fu, porkchop, dmm, Dick, Kendall, et al, they have a little more credibility in the world to risk than you do. Can you take that bit of truth? just wondering...)
Ambrosi
Barnes & Noble.com
Canadian Cosmetic
Circuit City
Direct Sellers Assoc.
Direct Selling Assoc.
NSF International
Quebecor
Sara Lee Coffee & Tea
The Right Place, Inc.
Uniglobe
Whirlpool Corporation
XS Energy
Choice Hotels Canada
Things Remembered
CSK Auto, Inc.
PartsAmerica.com
MCSports.com
Hickory Farms
So, newbies, think this will be enough to end argument? Truth be told, no. They (critics) will find something else to argue, as they always do, and it will come back down to the only thing they still have: some instances of tools mismanaged and failed people. It's best to move on, and like Creylish said, protect people from the 'dateline type' LOS and preserve your own so it is honorable, effective and good.
good day.
It is interesting to see all the different viewpoints people have about this business. Of those negative about it, I would like to know what personal experience you have had with it (not including your freinds and families experience). Not that I am against your views, I would just like to know why you feel the way you do.
I would gladly accept the 4% challege. My Schedule C shows a large loss from last year, but when you look farther into it, I have written off items that I was already paying for prior to becoming an IBO (cell phone bills, internet bills, computer, utilities). We also wrote off bowling nights, dinners out, and other misc items we were already doing before the business, but that became business expenses when we discussed the opportunity with our friends. For me, the tax deductions alone were enough to keep me happy!
Brad-Our hotel rooms sound pretty equivalent. I'm not sure exactly how much it costs, but the turn out is about the same and our Emerald upline is usually hosting the check-in table.
Just FYI, I am an accountant by day, so I keep close tabs on our business expenditures vs. our profitability.
BTW, I saw a comment about the Double X earlier. Instead of taking that, I opted for the Multi Vitamin that is $28 for a 6 month supply.
You have to be careful not to get caught up in what they say you should buy, and what you can afford.
I also saw above that someone thought you had to have 10 retail clients to run your business. I don't know if that's the way it used to be, but I know now you are required to have 100 client/member PV per month before your downline PV transfers to you. That PV can also come from items you sold to someone who is not Quixtar registered, as long as you report to Quixtar that is was C/M PV. Ie: I sold my mom and extra tube of toothpaste I already paid for and I reported it to reflect that it was client PV.
Member/Client rule update as of today:
4.22. Member/Client Volume: In order to obtain the right to earn a Performance Bonus on downline volume during a given month, an IBO must (a) make not less than one sale to each of 10 different retail customers (e.g., Members or Clients); or (b) have at least 50 PV of sales to any number of retail customers; or (c) have $100 at Member/Client Volume Cost. Member/Client Volume Rule Cost shall mean the published IBO cost for all items or any orders sold to a Member or Client, or the actual price paid to Partner Stores by Members or Clients. If applicable, Partner Store Member/Client Volume Rule Cost is applied in the month when the Corporation credits Partner Store Volume to an IBOs business.
It hasn't changed, there are 3 ways to satisfy it. Rule 4.24 discusses what happens if you don't, if you care to know that. All those opinionated types, save your critique of it, there is really no proof you have as to why this billion $ company should change this policy now.
Good Day.
Hello Brad
I had to pipe up about this:
" some instances of tools mismanaged and failed people. "
Some instances? Some?
My friend, until the internet absolutely blew that Pandora's box wide open, the tools money was secret. Those honorable diamonds you likely revere were in on it. Nice integrity.
Name one diamond who does not benefit from the tools money. Or even one that doesn't use the tools.
Better yet, name one diamond who would happily admit how much it is they make off of the tools. I know what's likely coming......the fact that you can make tools money is icing on the cake. Really!? Where is that part of the sales and marketing plan?
If anyone can participate in the tools money, why is there nothing showing how much of each CD you buy that goes into the upline pockets?
The tools are the business Brad. I don't know how much more bluntly to put it.
The lifestyles portrayed are not due to Quixtar product volume. Sorry.
That is kind of a Catch 22, isn't it rocket? How do diamonds make it to diamond to be able to make money on tools if that is the only way to make money?
You can't make money on tools if you are at Eagle volume, or for that matter, anywhere below Emerald. All the money I make comes from volume.
A lot of the lifestyles portrayed probably aren't completely from volume. You have to know how to manage your money once you start making it. We were told right from the jump that Some of Quixtars "richest" diamond IBO's are making hundreds of thousands of dollars in investments and interest income. Quixtar is meant to be a vehicle you can use for success, not a get rich quick scheme. You have to know how to use it and you have to be part of a good LOS to be successful. They told me coming in not to expect anything more than what I put it. The more time and energy I invest, the better the ROI.
Brad-Thanks for the update....I am still working toward my M/C PV. Now I am only required to accomplish 1/2 of what I expected!
"Also ask Dexter or your Upline how 35,000 people paying $85.00 each is fair for them to take and split any way they like and you did'nt learn how to buiild your business but you are "Fired UP"!
PS That's $2,975,000.00
Posted by: Ray at March 1, 2006 01:45 AM "
Ray- How much money do you think it will cost to accomodate and feed a group of 35,000 people?
Rocket: I was not in the business when this box opened, and I guess congratulations are in order to you and your pals for doing it. So, now it is out there. Did I forget to mention, that the day I was shown the plan, DURING THE PLAN, the presenter said income come from both sides, but the money we were going over right now was just for Qstar? Then, afterwards, he disclosed how and why money was coming from the other side.
What do you say to that?
Icing on the cake... well, i guess so. I do not dispute that this does provide a problem for those individuals that do not have the character to balance the money in the tools and not take advantage of people (which in my experience do not last in the business, and are rare). BUT, are there not thousands, to tens of thousands of examples of MLM companies (since as early as 1910 and 1920) that had some less-than-credible distributers take advantage, through the PRODUCTS, of individuals and their money? There will always be those out there that do that. There were critics then, that, just like you, said 'o, they are running someing underhanded' 'o it was a secret until it came out in the NY times'
you are not original in this rocket. You gave up on q-star, because it is so well respected, and move to MOs because they are easier targets. Why? What is your motivation?
I give one example: i just received a cd on standing order that talked about mem/client sales. This one CD has led to 5 new mem/clients and pushing my group, me included, to a future value of $5000 of revenue (through PV level and retail mark up) in the coming events. Now, this information did not come from my local upline, it was in CD form and came from individuals at a distance. Given this example, and many others like it, you say an $8 CD is stealing? ................ riiightt... and Bill Gates's purchase of a computer (or the profit IBM made on it) were bad things for him too?
I have read the past, and i know the present. The present is what affects me and my family's future. I know the break down of tools. I know the price of SOT, and Eagle steps. And i have worked it out (as said before, with upline counsel) how to make it happen, WHILE REDUCING DEBT.
Thoreau: we need to forgive ourselves the sins of the past and live in the present
(good advice... )
And I stand behind other comments made by Woods, for i have seen and heard the same things.
And Woods: Some good M/C ideas would be artistry/nao right now as we go into Spring, and the new genetics testing with IL genetics. that is a good way to develop NEW M/C and then they will see the value in Nutrilite and other exclusives. Product demo's and get togethers are fun and effective. Good luck in your M/C development. Individuals skilled in developing a duplicatable way to form M/C circles will alieviate a lot of argument brought up on these sites.
"Enough said, quixstar is a money-losing cult. Period.
Posted by: Dick Sanderson at February 28, 2006 04:31 AM "
I haven't seen this video yet, I will look at it when I get home. In the meantime, could you please give me your definition of a cult?
Just curious if anyone has attempted to scrutinize a college education like they have with this business opportunity? According to www.ssa.gov 95% of Americans are failing financially. People can not even retire in financial dignity. Credit card debt and personal debt is an all time high. The average college grad will have 5 different careers (that is an outdated figure by the way) of which are not even in the field they studied. At least with this business I have a chance of making some money long term. God knows there is no security with a JOB. If you don't believe me, ask a friend or family member who has been downsized, right sized or should we just say it...fired! Ask the elderly people greeting us at Wal-Mart and Mc Donald’s. So the real question is, who is truly believing a lie? Education pays....right.
If you work a job and don't have a business you are taking it up the rear paying taxes. Thank God for this business and the write offs I have. If you have a job, what kind of tax advantages do you have?
If you don't own your own business in America you are not taking advantage of this great country we are blessed with. Go right ahead continue building another mans dream. For me, I prefer to build my own. Bottom-line guys, everyone has the choice to succeed or fail in this business or any other endeavor. I would much rather take my chances following awesome mentors who truly do live with integrity and are willing to take their time, energy and resources to help me succeed. For all of those naysayers out there....what do you have to offer that is better than your job that you are going to lose sooner or later??
All of you blog masters and anti-Quixtar fanatics out there, who are trying to save the world from one of the best business opportunities ever envisioned and implemented, why don’t you go do something productive with your life and go figure out a way to buy back those 40 hours of your life which you are giving away to serve the almighty dollar bill. Your family is missing you and your negative outlook on life is doing nothing but stealing the joys of life you should be experiencing. Give it a break already.
Life is too short to be wallowing in your bitterness and failures.
God bless.
I have read here that presenters of the plan now show that money is made from tools. When I was in the biz (1997), we were told that WWDB was non profit and no one made money from tools. If the diamonds lied then, how do you know that they are being honest about the income potential from tools now?
Freedom Fighter>All of you blog masters and anti-Quixtar fanatics out there, who are trying to save the world from one of the best business opportunities ever envisioned and implemented, why dont you go do something productive with your life and go figure out a way to buy back those 40 hours of your life which you are giving away to serve the almighty dollar bill. Your family is missing you and your negative outlook on life is doing nothing but stealing the joys of life you should be experiencing. Give it a break already.
Life is too short to be wallowing in your bitterness and failures.
God bless.
Joe> So aren't you working a j-o-b tosupport your quixtar business and aren't you leaving your family behind to attend meetings and functions?
Why do you assume that critics are bitter or failures?
What I recommend you to do is meet a Diamond yourself and ask them. If you had the opportunity to meet and spend time with a Diamond you would understand the integrity they live by on a daily basis. At least I am speaking of the Diamonds I have spent personal time with.
Who knows what you heard back then. The FTC requires us to present what Quixtar pays not what other income potential are available outside of Quixtar. When it is all said and done who gives a rip if someone does make money from tools. People pay hundreds of thousand of dollars to listen to and learn from motivation and success coaches, supplying people with information that does not always relate directly to what people need to succeed in their business. Everyone starts at ground zero and everyone has the opportunity to make money from tools in the Quixtar business.
I cannot speak for what was said in 1997 nor WWDB for that matter, it is not my organization. It is a question of who said that, at what time, and in what context. Many one liners are grabbed here or there (common in critical press of anything) and degrads the value of the argument. I am not saying it wasn't said, just that I would want to know who said it (or how many), and if they had the true knowledge of it.
Never the less, for me, that doesn't affect the now. I still do not care if $1.50 of my $8 goes the my platinum, he has also given me a refund on 4 CDs i have returned just because i didnt want duplicates. And i don't care that Emeralds and above get breaks or speaking fees.
It still comes down to: the individual. If you cant blame the system (Qstar has been proven, and systems have been taken to FTC and other lawyers for check) then the only one left is the individual.
I think it is too hard for many people on here to look someone, that went into debt, in the eye, and say "It is your fault" granted, that isnt true all the time, but most of the time it is. I am not afraid to say it. I accept blame for the debt i got into by taking too many vacations and not watching money on a move when furnishing an apartment. But since the business, i can say honestly, i have not gone further into debt because of business.
So, since i did not go into debt, did i not just prove that you can do 'the system' (which i do) without going into debt? Who does that leave to blame? That is all i'm saying.
Comment on SSA stat: does anyone know where that came from, for real?
I looked for it, and when it was not easily accessed, i told my upline Emerald and it has since been taken out of our plans. (Wow... i was a lowly 100 PV when i did that...)
Never the less, i did get to about 82% could be proven dead or broke, but that was missing one or two stats still, that could push it even higher. This was made by combining statistics from the 2002 SSA document presented of income from varying sources for age 65 and older.
If no one knows, i will rejoin my quest, and get back to you on the real number. (I dont suspect any critics really looked for a number and found one?)
Brad - You know the tools breakdown? What is it? Big question, is that breakdown shown as part of the sales and marketing plan?
Point of order - I do not respect Quixtar. They are the very organization which perpetuate this facade. Someone can make a go of it with retail, even if their prices do suck eggs in comparison. I know, I know, you are investing in "your" business. Whatever helps you sleep at night is just fine.
"This one CD has led to 5 new mem/clients and pushing my group, me included, to a future value of $5000 of revenue (through PV level and retail mark up) in the coming events."
GREAT! Don't spend it before you get it dude. It may not go as planned.
Freedom Fighter - nice tapespeak. You assume a bit more than what is accurate, but, good for you. I don't make anyone rich, by the way. I am a civil servant, and I don't really answer to "the man". If you opened your eyes, you'd see that lots of people actually achieve fulfillment out of their career.
I found your statement of "Credit card debt and personal debt is an all time high." quite compelling.
Many people do not have credit card debt, I'm one of them. In fact, I'll bet Quixtar folks are among the worst segment of society suffering from credit card debt.
You two can create your big long explanations until the cows come home. Bottom line: 2 things
1. Your "leaders" have lied in the past about the tools profits. Neither of you sound stupid enough to believe otherwise. How do you know they are not lying now? You don't.
2. You can't control the prices in "your" business. They are virtually non competitive to anyone not in Quixtar/Amway. The lifestyle you are hoping (dreaming) to achieve is simply not achieveable through the movement of products. It's just not.
Go ahead, bury this in a pile of rhetoric. I don't care.
But I am right.
TO: WOODS
I am glad you are on board with the challenge. I cant wiat to see the data you provide and your progression over the years. I just hope qblog will post it.
BRAD:
Quit attacking me it is just going to get you a gag order from qblog. I want you to stick around and if you are feeling froggy I would like you to take the 4% challenge.
And dont quote Thereau you don't even know where that quote was taken from let alone the movement it started. I toured the grounds where that book was written. I can assure you that you have nothing in common with Thereau or his ideals.
Does anyone else want to beat up on a lowly 4% return? STEP RIGHT UP
Brad - You know the tools breakdown? What is it? Big question, is that breakdown shown as part of the sales and marketing plan?
Point of order - I do not respect Quixtar. They are the very organization which perpetuate this facade. Someone can make a go of it with retail, even if their prices do suck eggs in comparison. I know, I know, you are investing in "your" business. Whatever helps you sleep at night is just fine.
"This one CD has led to 5 new mem/clients and pushing my group, me included, to a future value of $5000 of revenue (through PV level and retail mark up) in the coming events."
GREAT! Don't spend it before you get it dude. It may not go as planned.
Freedom Fighter - nice tapespeak. You assume a bit more than what is accurate, but, good for you. I don't make anyone rich, by the way. I am a civil servant, and I don't really answer to "the man". If you opened your eyes, you'd see that lots of people actually achieve fulfillment out of their career.
I found your statement of "Credit card debt and personal debt is an all time high." quite compelling.
Many people do not have credit card debt, I'm one of them. In fact, I'll bet Quixtar folks are among the worst segment of society suffering from credit card debt.
You two can create your big long explanations until the cows come home. Bottom line: 2 things
1. Your "leaders" have lied in the past about the tools profits. Neither of you sound stupid enough to believe otherwise. How do you know they are not lying now? You don't.
2. You can't control the prices in "your" business. They are virtually non competitive to anyone not in Quixtar/Amway. The lifestyle you are hoping (dreaming) to achieve is simply not achieveable through the movement of products. It's just not.
Go ahead, bury this in a pile of rhetoric. I don't care.
But I am right.
Negative and incorrect are not synonymous
freedom fighter> What I recommend you to do is meet a Diamond yourself and ask them. If you had the opportunity to meet and spend time with a Diamond you would understand the integrity they live by on a daily basis. At least I am speaking of the Diamonds I have spent personal time with.
Joe> I was an up and coming 4000 pin in the business. I got to attend some of the diamond's personal home board plans. I asked him why he would keep building the business when he could walk away and collect "residual" income forever. He told me that he only did it out of love for his downline who he had befriended.
This was while he was saying that no money was made off tools and that WWDB was non - profit. The leadership later changed the story and said WWDB was for - profit, but their profits went into funding future functions and that no one made money off tools.
I ask you again, who do you know if your upline diamonds are telling the truth now?
And yes, you may not have a problem with diamonds making money off motivation, but is the REAL BUSINESS quixtar or motivation?
Hello to all.
I am the operations manager of a comercial cleaning company who purchaces a good volume of products, not quickstar brands but other name brand cleaners, at whole sale outlets curently. I have tried some of the products from another member and the seem to work just as well and cost almost the same as at these wholesale places. Im not looking initially to set up a "buisness" althought that is what is will be, but rather to just make some mony back on what we are already spending to the tune of $5000/mo. I am a prospective member and have just went through a rather lenghtly time reading many posts and pro cons all to come to one conclussion. If you can indeed write off some expences and get money back on what you already purchase then Im all for it. As many said the books and tapes are optional right? I think I can handle that.
Lex,
If you're going to buy stuff, and already using good volume, then sure, you can make some money doing retail. That's cool.
Problem is when big shots telling you that you need to buy tapes/cd's and attend seminars to do the business. So you subscribe to the teaching system and the teaching doesn't teach yuo anything about how to run a profitable business, but rather the tapes and seminars teach you not to quit, but to listen to more tapes and attend all the seminars.
-Joecool18
I trust that they wont teach me anything about a sucessfull buisness. I really dont want them to. I have a side hobby of riping apart tv ads and infomercials, which i assume most of the tapes and seminars will sound like, so im not going to worry about that. Plus its not like im devoting very much time to it and even if I did it dosnt sound anymore risky then any other buisness that you could start up.
Ps. sorry for the repost
Woods- I don't ever remember being feed at a major function! I usually spent a lot of money coming 400 miles away and not being able to bring Quixtar Products into functions to eat. The big pins were being catered while we ate hot dogs and chips. The function usually is like going to a concert for 15 hours and not that comfortable! Then they tell you what to wear to these functions so that your uncomfortable. Then you listen to blow hards tell you about the books,tapes and functions all day! I have seen over my 16 years in Amway/Quixtar a lot of the same old people (Diamonds) who never moved on and a lot who the company has gotten rid of because of the tools system. The best thing I ever did was question my upline about the things on the internet and he never returned my call! Now 2 years later I'm a loser! I make more money than I ever have and my life has never been better! Sorry to ruin the story that if you quit life will be so bad.
Ray,
Like I said, I hadn't been to any of the meetings so i don't know what the meals entail. LOL at the hot dogs and chips!
I know there was a big "dream weekend" in Minneapolis 2 months or so ago and they served 2 or 3 meals for that. They offered a challenge we could meet to sit at the head table with the diamonds and eat Filet Mignon. There is another big "dream weekend" in Texas coming up and I know I won't make that one--it in one week before our Las Vegas wedding! When I put it into perspective for us, spending the $85/person to go to a three day seminar doesn't seem too bad. We get to network and learn from other IBO's. We have spent more than that on Timberwolves tickets to go watch them play for 2 hours and ultimately lose. And that's not a tax write off!
I also never thought my life would be bad if I quit. I just see this as a possible way to earn a little money on the side and if it doesn't work, then it doesn't work. We have an excellent upline, which sounds like a rare commodity from some of the experiences I am reading about. I have no intentions of leaving my "day job" until I at least double the income I earn from that! My fiance and I work different shifts so we don't have daycare expenses for our three kids. As a result, our quality time is non-existent which gives us our drive to succeed.
I believe it will work if we make it work.
Is WWDB the "Dream Builders" organization? I am a part of Britt Worldwide, which to my understanding is quite different.
Going back to losing money....
Is it true that in dream builders you have to stock a certain amount of inventory to sell every month?
FU Does your name mean what I think it does? I feel like I am being told to F off every time I read it.
LOL
Woods: Seriously man, think about some of these things.
"We get to network and learn from other IBO's."
I'll bet you would be told that's crosslining.
"....Timberwolves tickets to go watch them play for 2 hours and ultimately lose. And that's not a tax write off!"
It won't be either according to the IRS, unless you start generating solid profit. Otherwise, the IRS will file your "write offs" under "G" for garbage, and you will not be allowed this benefit. Serriously, you should make sure about that before you bank on it. If your upline had your best interests at heart, he would tell you the same thing.
Did everyone get 2 or 3 meals? Or just the people who qualified?
Everyone says their upline is not like that. If they thought their upline was like that, there wouldn't be that defense would there?
Good luck though.
"Woods: Seriously man, think about some of these things."
Rocket,
How about "seriously ma'am?"
And I do think about these things on an everyday basis. Being an accounting major and a tax preparer, I clearly understand the difference between having qualified business expenses and having an abusive tax shelter. We went to Vegas a couple of weeks ago and discussed our business witha freind we have down there (who is a potential client). But because our trip was mainly for wedding planning, I will only deduct a small percentage of the trip.
Our bowling night ended up being a tax write-off because we showed the plan to a friend we went bowling with. You have to know the loopholes in the system. The tax system is designed for private business owners, not employees.
I did not intend to write off any timberwolves tickets, I was merely using them for a price comparison.
So far I have not been discouraged from "crosslining". I'm not exactly sure why it would be disouraged. Being that we are somewhat in competition with each other, it would make sense to speak with discretion, but if you ultimately want to succeed, wouldn't you want your downline to exchange tactics? Maybe two siblings who are crossline for example? What is your insight on "crosslining"?
OK ma'am. I think I must've put it in a way you didn't understand.
"....Timberwolves tickets to go watch them play for 2 hours and ultimately lose. And that's not a tax write off!"
Look Here:
http://www.amquix.info/quixtar_profit_stats_04.html
Neither will your seminars, unless you generate a solid profit. Your business has to exist for you to make money off of, but I'm sure you knew that.
"What is your insight on "crosslining"?"
I think that it's your business and you should talk to whomever you want about it. Your leaders would disagree, and would likely tell you that you need to follow the system to be successful. That means no crosslining. Your leaders would also say that it's their business, not just yours. See the conflict?
PS they tell you not to crossline so that you won't figure out that nobody is really making any money off of this.
Except for the tools.
Woods-After the IRS got thru with me they told me I would be better off working at McDonalds! I hate to see that people are getting so brainwashed in the business. I wish you well , but study everything you can for yourself. Remember you are just a $ sign to your upline. Maybe not your personal sponsor but upline your name =dollars! I'm telling you they really don't care for you as much as they say! If you want to find out miss a few meetings or get off the system!
Brad and Newbies:
Here is Brad's list - I took top to bottom, and saw what 'people had to say' - for credibility purposes, of course. Brad has some extra at the end...but it's credibility, after all:
Ambrosi - statement is from an 'account director' - no doubt Quixtar's account. Not impressed…couldn’t they at least get a VP or something to take the time out to praise the greatness of the almighty Quix?
Barnes & Noble.com - VP Sales: (paraphrase) "Thanks for sending us customers...we've made a lot of money off you folks." Just don't try to recruit in their stores anymore!
Canadian Cosmetic - not a business...some lobbyist group for breast cancer.
Circuit City - (paraphrase) "Quixtar is one of 9,000 'affiliate' partners." Means - they sell our stuff. Sounds like a real cozy relationship - you're not even a REAL partner - just an 'affiliate.'
Direct Sellers Assoc. - not a business - lobbyist group.
Direct Selling Assoc. - same as above.
NSF International - not a business.
Quebecor - prints Quixtar's catalogues: "Thanks for the business."
Sara Lee Coffee & Tea - "Thanks for buying our coffee."
The Right Place, Inc. - not a business.
Uniglobe - Quixtar's Canadian travel agency? Unimpressed.
Whirlpool Corporation - "Thanks for buying our stuff."
XS Energy - can't get it anywhere else - "Thanks for selling our stuff."
I didn’t find the remainders listed. I must have a credibility problem!
As Brad Said:
“After this, if you are to say Qstar is a scheme, or the "partners" arent "partners" you are discounting the FACT- OBVIOUS FACT- that these people attached their name to these statements and have thus put their own, and their companies, credibility on the line to say it. “(sic)
As I say:
“Thanks for buying our stuff.” (brand names) or “I’m a shill for Quixtar.” (DSA et. al.) or “Quixtar directly pays me for business (printing/travel) and I appreciate it.” ARE NOT RINGING ENDORSEMENTS!
Back to the basis of all arguments with Quixtar advocates – what you define as “FACT – OBVIOUS FACT” repeatedly shows itself to be SUSPECT – OBVIOUS SUSPECT.
Now, to be a gentleman, I won’t question Brad’s integrity or credibility. I’ll let others do that for themselves. What I will openly question is his sanity – how the hell do you twist “approval/enjoyment/hearty endorsement” from those quotes? I understand that’s what their put on ‘thisbiznow’ to represent, but did you actually read them? If no – then we’re back to credibility. If yes – then my sanity comment is spot on.
Enjoy!
I don't think "brainwashed" would be the proper term for me. Although I don't disagree completely....I can see how easy it would be to get in and spend your self right into debt trying to make a certain PV.
I have missed several meetings. Like I said, I have 3 kids and I don't like to pawn my kids off 2-3 times per week to go to "functions". I understand you have to be smart about everything you do. I also understand that I am a dollar sign to upline who do not know me. Just as my downline will be when I reach the point of not knowing them. That may sound bad but when it comes down to it, the whole reason to be in business is to make money, right? Would your employer give you a pay increase (or even keep you around) if you weren't productive?
I am not one to preach about how bad having a job is. Mine has paid my bills so far, and it will continue to pay them whether or not this business works for me.
I think I am just really curious what exactly makes people SO against Quixtar. Like it was said earlier, I am a dreaded "newbie" (GASP)! I did some research before I started, and I actually stumbled on this wesite when I was doing some more. The funny thing is that I didn't know this was an anti-Quixtar website! I just thought it was a discussion board for anyone knowing about it!
Porkchopjim,
You beat me to it, I was going to make the same argument. But I am glad you did, because you did it way more eloquently than I would have.
Brad,
I hate to say this, but all your posts seem to indicate that you are either very naive or seriously deluded.
Oh, and not once did I talk about tools or Diamonds -
But, somewhere above there was a 'those were the old Diamonds lying about tool money...if you spent time with one of the current Diamonds (I can't believe I now capitalize that) you'll see the level of integrity that they avow.' What 'new' diamonds would those be? Quixtar diamonds? How many new Quixtar diamonds are there vs. those that started with Amway? Hmmm.....just because the shoes I'm wearing are the last pair I bought - which means I can call them my 'new shoes' - the FACT - OBVIOUS FACT that they are over seven years old wouldn't qualify them as 'new' to anyone else. Sanity vs. Integrity - again.
PorkChop:
your attempt at disproving the above list did not address the most important part:
YOU CLAIM that Qstar and the systems (thus the business as a whole) is awful, or illegal, or unethical etcetcetc.
MY CLAIM is: these people put thier NAMES on this list, thus, no matter what they say (given that they are all positive) and what their true business is (as you so specifically wrote for everyone) they do support this business as one that will sell there stuff, or whatever.
THUS, if it WAS a 'bad' business, would people then look at their affiliation and then taint the companies and people who support them? Most, who are open to business as a whole would. You, and some others however, are so focused on Qstar alone that you fail to see American business as a whole and detract from legitimate criticism with your flaming attacks and admittance to your goal of taking down Qstar...
1) Stop copying/pasting (replacing words in similar phrasing), it shows a lack of creativity...
2) What if you do succeed at defeating the giant... Qstar... what would you do every day? Would you think your life to be fulfilled? Who would you attack next? (I am honestly asking these questions, not rhetorical)
Rocket:
prove this: "Many people do not have credit card debt, I'm one of them. In fact, I'll bet Quixtar folks are among the worst segment of society suffering from credit card debt." (not your debt, but the fact that many people don't have it and qstar folks lead the pack of those that do)
And this statement: "They [products] are virtually non competitive to anyone not in Quixtar/Amway."
Are starbucks coffee's competitive? I had a hot chocolate there yesterday, tasted like crap, and was about $3. But they have a nice atmosphere to read in, and it was a place to sit for a while. Our products, when given with the proper customer service ARE competive (please refer to Creylish's posts on his M/C experiences, and there are others who have had success and, if you are all so up on Qstar, check their new products and new company alliances. Its all open information. Or do you guys spend all your time on Amquix and this post? that would be sad...)
Rocket, i never said incorrect is the same as negative. But what i do say, is, how can what you say be the whole truth when there are still people succeeding in this business?
Also, if you do think you are so right (and Perceptive, and PorkChop) i have called you out before, and i am doing it once more.
Are you man (or woman) enough to step out from behind this blog, from behind work Larson has done for you, and tidbits of fact going back 20 years and challenge the 2-5 year plan? Please refer to the saved posts from before and you can read my challenge.
Arguing this is getting us no where. All i want to do here is protect the newbies who think they can take you on. They cant. You all are too experienced. However... when i turn the tables, what do you do?
DO you run like the cowards tapespeak says you are?
OR do you step up, and stand behind the passion you speak day in and day out that this business doesn't work?
It is really up to you.
Who's going to be right this time, Rocket?
Wow perceptive, i read your site and "how i got into this" post. interesting.
Couple of questions: How much time did you actually spend in the business?
When you have called the FTC to report IBOs and their practices, what was the response?
About John T Reed: So, all those creditials for him proves he is right? despite the fact that there are more things praising Kiyosaki's books out there than not? (WSJ, and others)
Perceptive, you do have passion, and quite a vigor, and it is noble (in a way) for you to take off as a "lone ranger" (now finding a home in blogging), but what have you proven so far? What can people say, if you died today, that you did for society in this quest?
I have read the same stuff you have, and dare say, done more research (i have actually been to business events, and have asked tough questions and... OOPS there's an IBO with the Medal of Honor and i'm supposed to seriously question his honor? just checking...)
For every "expert" you present, there are 5-10-100 of those same creditials inside the business as speak out about it. (good luck proving me wrong) i'm not disillusioned or naive... stubborn at times, yes, but not the other two. If you dont think i'm telling the truth here, take the challenge, prove your true 'lone ranger' status. Otherwise, i hope you find something that gives rather than takes from society.
Refer to above: Presenting a problem without a solution, is still a problem.
You merely try to expose a problem, what do you do to help those people you defeat once you remove the hope from them?
Buster Move- Where are all the Diamonds? Since 1999 there should be thousands? The fruit is not there! Same old Hype just another slew of IBO's being milked!
You have to be very careful with the IRS and your business deductions, especially if you show a loss for a few straight years. The IRS does not look kindly on people who run a business for tax shelter purposes. Businessess exist to profit, and if yours does not for a period of 3 years or more, there is a chance the IRS will come in, audit you and dissallow a lot of your business deductions. They will claim you run a "hobby business" and make you pay back taxes plus interest. If you have been in Quixtar and declaring a loss in your Schedule C for 3 or more consecutive years, I suggest you contact a tax expert.
Also, the tax write-offs are tricky when it comes to your personal accounting. In general, you only get back about $.25 of every $1 you spend. So, if you take a business trip and spent $400, you will get about $100 back on your taxes. Now, say you are not in business, and during the same time you took your business trip you would have taken a vacation and spent only $250, are you really coming out ahead? The answer is only if you made at least $50 profit as the result of your trip.
As for education, it has a much better success track record then Amway/Quixtar. Just take a look here, http://www.census.gov/hhes/income/earnings/call1usboth.html. It is from the census, and tracks, by age group, average income versus education level. Yes there are no guarantees and one must put forth the effort, but even the average American who just finishes his bachelor's degree will make millions more over his lifetime then the average American who stops his schooling after high school. So, even at $100,000 for a four year degree will, if you are just average, more then pay for itself. Compare that to the average AmQuix distributor making $115/month!
Last but not least, the line that 98% of all Americans are broke or dead by age 65 comes from a report from the Senate Finance Committee....from 1935! http://www.amquix.info/amway_retirement_legend.html Yes my source is one of the largest anti-AmQuix person out there, but follow his sources. They are certainly legitimate.
DMM, thanks for the link. I read it. Even that does not come out and say 98%. Furthermore, it does not disprove the fact that it could be true today, does it?
By saying ___ was true in 1935 does NOT say __ is NOT true in 2002/2006. One would hope it's not still true, but we are searching for proof, are we not?
Common sense questions if it could be true today, which is why i too question what the statistic is right now. I am rummaging through SSA documents from 2002 and i'll get back to you.
Bradford,
Before your tenuous grip on reality slips away completely – as I pointed out, the “Ringing Endorsements” you crow about are far from that: “Thanks for selling my stuff” does not equal “Quixtar is the most upstanding, integrity laden business I have found and we wholehearted endorse the 2-5 year plan!” BTW, cutting and pasting – I suspect you find that distasteful because your own words get used against you. Facts vs. ‘Creativity.’ I do commend you on your creative leap of equating my critique of mediocre (at best) form letter ‘endorsements’ for Quixtar as an outright assault on business in general. Genius! I guess ‘Pinkojim” is a more fitting nome-de-plume?
Quix advocates almost choke themselves trying to scream how ethical this business is – with no more ‘proof’ than ‘my upline said so’ and ‘would Circuit City let us sell their stuff if we weren’t?’ Response to that should be, in order ‘so what – try to find a guilty guy in jail’ and ‘I seriously doubt Circuit City et.al. have the slightest clue about ‘the business’ other than you are another customer – just like anyone else. They sell to felons and child molesters, too. If you are lumping yourself in with that crew, then more power to you!’ “Would Best Buy sell me a TV if I beat my wife?” “Yes!” “Well, then, I can’t be that bad! Look, the person who rung me up has her name on my receipt – that’s a ringing endorsement of my integrity if I ever had one!” Your ‘endorsements’ are no more than the tellers name on the receipt.
No advocate has been able to show how Qstar abides by the letter of the law, never mind intent, with ‘the business’. It’s all this slippery, slimy 50pv/100pv / 10 clients – no don’t need 10 clients / majority of income from sales OUTSIDE the system – no, sales through me to my downline count / tools are optional but so is success / I can call myself a CEO of my own corporation (with no understanding of what that is) / I can take tax deductions to offset my LOSES / 95% of the people are broke at retirement – no that’s not what was said / no one makes money off tools – no, some make money off the tools, so what? – no, most money is made from tools, so what?….that crap sticks in my craw. Integrity, indeed. If Amway/Quixtar is so above the board ethical, why does it have such a bad reputation? Why is Amway/Quixtar hidden in until the end? If this is such a great business opportunity, why is everyone so guarded to show proof of their success? (My personal income and my personal business are not things that I disclose….). The slime oozes from the entire thing.
I don’t care if Qstar dies. I do care that people are being exploited. How are they being exploited? They are systematically conditioned to believe that the 2-5 year plan is their salvation. Material excess is demonstrated by the kingpins as proof of success. (There I go with the commie stuff again!) Profit/loss statements are not used as the proof of success. Who has a serious business meeting with several thousand people in a stadium? Why do you continually have to keep people ‘fired-up’? Is it because the $$$ just isn’t there, or is that just a side benefit? PLEASE!!!!
Red Flag? “The integrity of this business is unquestionable!!!” There definitely seems to be more questions than answers. Integrity vs. Sanity – AGAIN.
What’s next for me? The Swiss! I hate those bastards! Again, what kind of stupid question is that?
The more you spew, the more evidence you present regarding the ‘cult-like’ aspects of this business – an adverse reaction to facts and an evangelical promotion of a way of thought – complete with its own version of heaven (diamonds) and hell (broke losers).
porkchopjim-
How long were you an IBO?
What about quixtar partners Enron and MCI Worldcom?
JoeCool: that is true, they were there, and Qstar used their products and services in a manner similar or identical to some other 'partners'. BUT How many sites and people were dedicated to proving those companies lacked integrity before the whole thing blew up due to internal mismanagement of funds?
I am saying this: With full access to all yall's opinions here, and the 'facts' of amquix.info, those business leaders put there names on a Qstar site thus linking themselves as more than just a partner hiding in legal contracts.
I do commend you, porkchop, on summing up this blog, for and against arguments, and most of amquix.info, in one post. However, you have dodged the fact that the business leaders attached their REAL names, or their REAL pictures, or both and tied themselves to the Q-star and Alticore names. Why?? Just cause they were asked to do so, they said "sure"? Give me one big business CEO that will let there name and picture be plastered on anything without checking it out? (I DO NOT want more hearsay, and DO NOT want your opinion, PROVE IT to this blog and your army of critics)
I asked you to take the challenge, you havent. Why?
I have never said that there is not evidence to show instances of fraud in any area of this business, but it comes down to the people that commit those frauds, not the model, not the company, and not my team. (Yes, you get that a lot, perhaps it could be true? Perhaps there could be honorable people that run this business for the benefit of others) Think, if everyone else in the business were removed except those on my team from Emerald to below, would it then be ethical and legal in your terms? And could i still build the business? If so, then what do all those other people matter to me? ok then...
Your accusations do not apply to my team, from Emerald and below, because i have been there, asked the tough questions. I questioned tools, i questioned SOT, functions, 100PV, etcetcetc. Never was i denied help. Never was i told i had to listen to them.
Always, i was told to, "Dont trust me, look it up for yourself" and i have. (from my emerald, and my Q12)
Like i said before, the newbies can't keep up with the experience you have in the arguments you have fought. HOWEVER, you dwell on those past conversations and believe it to form a cumulative argument against the whole system. When, in truth, there are too many variables for it to truely accumulate, and you discount (or completely ignore) the good aspects, the good people, the good teams, those playing by the rules, etc.
And i also ask you, how long were you an IBO? And who did you get to talk to? And what credibility do you have beyond just being around these critic sites for going on 2-3 years or so?
Brad,
"Give me one big business CEO that will let there name and picture be plastered on anything without checking it out?"
Which one of the businesses on 'thisbiznow' showed the CEO? The lobbyists (DSA) and the non-profits (the Right Place - which said 'thanks for spending so much money here in the community). It certainly wasn't any of the 'real' businesses that you have referenced. How's that for proof? I didn't know I left a 'challenge' unmet!
Maybe it's not a question of integrity or sanity. Quite possibly it's a question of reading comprehension.
Every pro says 'it's not me, it's not my team, it's different now.' Yet, time and again (Dateline was SOOO LONG AGO!!! Quit living in the PAST! It's all different now!)...it ends up 'it's your team, it's the same people, and it's no different now.'
Do I have to have heaps of cheap business cards that say "Porkchopjim, CEO of Porkchopjim International, Inc. - Internet Business Consultant" with a @quixtar.com email on it to have credibility? Well, I can make some of those up if need be - making stuff up doesn't seem to bother the most ethical business in the world...
How much money would I have to lose to the Nigerian scam before I could say it was a bad thing? Do I have to lose my house because I spent all my money on crack before I can say it's a bad thing? You have a pretty high (and arbitrary) standard for critics - that you obviously do not apply to your own 'business.' If you think that's a cheap arguement - once again, it doesn't seem to apply to pro-Quix folks (don't you invest in college?.....)
How long was I in? Won't matter, because here's the play:
1) I was never in. Response: well, you have no basis to be critical of anything and don't know what you are talking about - loser.
2) I was in the business for three years. Response: well I've been in for 3 years and a day, and if you only stuck it out, you would have seen how it all changed..." How many times have we seen that, followed by "I'm sorry you had a bad experience, but my group's not like that..."
Which one do you want me to go with?
If there are too many variable for me to have a negative opinion, then on what basis do you have a positive opinion? Personal experience? Last time I checked, you weren't making a profit, and hand over fist proclaiming the benefits of the 'system' with its valuable CDs and seminars.
Given that, what does the preponderance of evidence lead a REASONABLE person to conclude? The only people saying it is a good thing are those that are in it - got cult? The 'businesses' that are 'impressed' enough to put their CEOs on a testimonial are of only three types: lobbyists (paid directly and indirectly by Am/Quix), not-for profits (keep that money coming), and outright sub-contractors (printers, travel agents) - who are once again paid directly by Am/Quix. Every other 'real' business could only seem to muster an account manager or - drumroll - VP of sales, with the message of "Thanks for selling our products. What was your name again?"
Bottom line: I DO NOT see the 'dream.' I see a scam.
Now, what part of what challenge did I avoid?
I think anyone can try the business out. The problem is when an IBO starts to lose money (tapes and seminars), the theme then becomes "don't quit", success might be right around the corner, or you might hear that one thing at a function that will turn your business around.
This is where the danger is.
JoeCool: i agree, and you know that. As said before, my group, at 5 months of no progress, sits with the IBO and gives options of what they can do and evaluate where they are in building the business.
And i forgot to mention, talking with my Q12, he has given refunds for tapes after 2 YEARS!!! so that's a scam?
Porkchop: it is clear to everyone reading that your statements are only backed by Amquix info and other information you try to take from just these websites.
I do ask you to go out and get credible sources. I have challenged the FBI claim, and the FTC reports made by perceptive, and honestly have not seen evidence from you as one that can speak on this business in terms of honest information with knowledge of all teams.
How long/if ever you were involved does matter. I very much respect those who were in the business and their experience. I do have my opinion on how their experience was and have my thoughts on where blame is to be placed. But you have not shown that sort of credibility.
You not accepting a challenge- you hide behind this post, and the critical webring. The challenge is to put your passion behind it, and go offline where it matters. There, we could figure out 1 of 2 things: either we dont really differ much, just on a few points, and the challenge isnt necessary (has happened), or you still believe fervently that i can't succeed and it is a horrible business, then terms are written.
To show the damage of only reading negative information i send you here: http://www.snopes.com/science/dhmo.asp So, H20 should be banned?
I realize this can be used both ways ('cult like' aspects of the busines, as you say, and your use of only these web ring sites). I am here to protect the newbies, because i stumbled on here over a year ago, and read all the same stuff you did (Amquix, A/Q sucks, FTC reports, etc), and knowing the TRUTH about MY team, those stories are now warnings for me to look for, but not to cause me to go on a crusade to complain about it.
Revolutions are not won by complainers. That might draw attention to a cause, but it does not change policy. Those who fight, in the battle, change policy. I am doing that. I watch for those "red flags" you warn about. Can i do something about the 'king pins' you speak of from my position right here? no. but i can make a difference by being an example to other IBOs as to how to properly run a business.
A brave man to lead the revolution from the bottom.
Are you truly an undercover 'skeptic'? Perhaps a bit too undercover - if you have read (and comprehended) the references cited by perceptive et. al. regarding the FTC (BTW - I'm in DC, and I STILL can't find that darn FTC memo that says if an IBO does 100PV it's not a pyramid scheme...I'll keep looking, though! And when I find that bad-boy, I'll be the first to apologize!), court decisions, etc...I don't know what other 'credible' sources you can possibly want me to view. I read your 'biznow' testimonials and came away less than impressed. If that's the best you can do to defend your 'business' vs. all of the other information available- then it's not me who has the 'credibility' problem.
My email address has always been (and used to show up when clicked) porkchopjim@hotmail.com. If you are compelled to challenge me to 'take this into the parkinglot' go right ahead. It won't change any of the facts.
Otherwise, it's up to the individuals to decide who's got the credibility and who doesn't. I'll sleep well tonight.
Side question: Since he is actually financing a revolution, can he extend his tax deductions for business loses beyond what the IRS normally allows? What box does one check on a schedule C for 'revolutionary expense - exempt from normal profit/loss calculations'? I'll keep looking for that one, too.
Wait,
Now I obviously have a reading comprehension problem:
Am I being outright brushed off because I'm not credible, or am I being called into the parking lot?
Am I being called into the parking lot because things aren't going well for Brad and the Newbies? Isn't that a standard Am/Quix play to keep the neg. out of the light? Do it behind the scenes...count the money from the rally behind the stage?
Am I catching this right? Boy, I sure DON'T get this business!
I said it before but I'll reapeat it.
I'm pretty sure most IBO's are nice people with good intentions. The problem starts when the IBO's begin to trust upline and follow their advice blindly. I once did it so I have seen both sides of the fence.
Most IBO's do not intend or mean to mislead people but are simply doing what they have been taught. Thus making the kingpins guilty.
Brad - if your direct refunds tapes for 2 years, he is eating the loss himself. I doubt that the diamond is paying him back.
Man, you guys have been busy! And very heated, too... I do not have a problem allowing people in the Quixtar team to make money off of speaking at functions, making motivational tapes, ect. Why? They take their time AWAY from their family and lifestyle that they built to speak to IBO's. If all you heard was motivational "crap", then perhaps you listened to the wrong tapes? Or maybe not the entire one? I would admit to that same fault, in the beginning. Until I met one of my downline who had a very specific problem and only wanted someone to say: "I've been through that, there is light at the end of the tunnel." Luckily, I had listened to the exact tape they were needing... As for getting to the point where you all you hear is your upline saying, "don't quit, success might be around the corner." Is so true. We were going to quit in April or May of 2005. My upline asked me to do an experiment for the remainder of the year, and if we weren't happy with the results, he'd find a way to pay us back. I thank him every day for challenging us, because we would have missed out on our business breaking a profit last year! There was some comments on crosslining here as well, and I now understand why they advise against it. Not because there is no money in Quixtar, but because you may give advice that harms the other person's business. I watched one of our businesses get destroyed because of crosslining. Not a pretty sight.
Thanks for the crosslining feedback. Being new, I didn't understand why it would be a bad thing. Good thing I never offered my advice. hee hee hee...
WOW!! CAN SOMEONE GET ME A KNIFE TO CUT THE TENSION IN HERE!?!
BTW I like most of my motivational crap, especially Dave Severn (a former CPA) and Bill Mainor (OH HARRY!).
They are pretty humerous!
BTW I like most of my motivational crap, especially Dave Severn (a former CPA) and Bill Mainor (OH HARRY!).
They are pretty humorous!
Sorry about the double post-I tried to catch my typo.....
JoeCool: True, he is. His character is a reflection of his upline though. I have met, sat with, and questioned directly my diamond. We run our business for the uplifting of individuals. (Both are veterens of 2+ wars, and have impecable character/financial knowledge. They lead from the front with the: God, Family, Business priority and that the business is to help your financial situation, not put you in a worse one)
PorkChop: It is not to HIDE anything. Protect it, yes. Ask qblog for my e-mail address, and write me. I am not going to do the work for you. I will not post my returns, just as i dont expect a private corporation to do that for me if i ask. And especially not for the misguided criticism of some individuals lurking in these websites.
And Yes, for the sixth (or 7/8th) time, i am calling you out!
So, you have 3 people on here showing you, as best as they can, that they receive support and financial guarantee without the pressure some of you claim to be oozing out of this business.
And you do not have the decency to say: You might be right in your situation, and i hope we can lift that up to show how this business should be run. Instead, you try to squash it? It is easier to change if there is a better alternative to change towards. If you remove what is left if you change, what is the reason for someone to follow your advice? Just because you are on a blog and demand that cumulative internet evidence makes you right?
And yes, I apologize for the tension. It kinda feels like extremists trying to compromise on one single idea... it's just not going to happen. I try to be in the middle (and yes, cautiously skeptical), but i cannot stand individuals who stand behind old stats and downplay good information to protect their wall of negativity.
Why don't you knock it off with them negative waves? Why don't you dig how beautiful it is out here? Why don't you say something righteous and hopeful for a change? - Oddball from "Kelly's Heroes"
Creylish > I do not have a problem allowing people in the Quixtar team to make money off of speaking at functions, making motivational tapes, ect. Why? They take their time AWAY from their family and lifestyle that they built to speak to IBO's
Dear Creylish,
Lifestyle is not something you build, and then it sustains itself. Lifestyle is something that needs to be supported. And the lifestyles that you see on stage are and can be only supported by the motivational business. So, nobody is "taking time AWAY" -- it's their primary occupation and the source of most of their income. If they don't do it, they can't support their lifestyles.
BB> Strong stance. I see no proof for that statement, however. If you could point me to it?
My upline triple diamond offered our organization a contest. As part of the reward, he opened his homes to us for a day. You are right, lifestyle needs to be supported. While we were there, he said several times that he doesn't want us going to functions and listening to tapes unless our business is running a profit. If he was hoping for his lifestyle to be supported by this "tool business", he just cut his income, because most of the group there took his words to heart. If your reasoning was correct, then he would be looking to get more tool flow. I say your reasoning is wrong because I got a voice mail from him yesterday reiterating that he didn't want people spending money on the support system until they were making a profit in their business!
BB- I am with Creylish. Also, as even some critics have admitted, other investments (market, real estate, etc) could lead to income to support their lavish lifestyle. Everyone needs a place to start. They (and I) chose this business. The first million is the hardest, after that, it get's easier to make money. (No, that is not just Kiyosaki saying that) My diamond has a 3 prong strategy, that has been adopted by my upline emerald. F.I. through- this business, the market, and real estate. He is frugal in his lifestyle, but his occasionaly splurges are fun to see.
I apologize for making this blog long again, i don't want to keep closing out topics. I have registered on the forum, so if someone desires to continue something there, we can. Just let me know.
Creylish,
Something is missing here, and by that I don't mean to question your sincerity, but unless there is more to what he's been telling you and others, I would question his. If you shell out $250 for the kit, and your first month's PV check is $10, you should not be getting on the SOT, buying books, or attending functions well into months or years of being an IBO, according to his logic. Doesn't compute with anything that the "system" teaches.
This aside -- and I am not trying to answer a question with a question -- do you personally honestly believe that your upline triple is making more money from Quixtar than from his motivational business? And if so, what would you base this belief upon?
Brad> BB- I am with Creylish. Also, as even some critics have admitted, other investments (market, real estate, etc) could lead to income to support their lavish lifestyle. Everyone needs a place to start. They (and I) chose this business. The first million is the hardest, after that, it get's easier to make money. (No, that is not just Kiyosaki saying that) My diamond has a 3 prong strategy, that has been adopted by my upline emerald. F.I. through- this business, the market, and real estate. He is frugal in his lifestyle.
Joe> Bfrad, back in the older days, bill britt and some others taught that Amway is all yuo ever need, put everything into it and you will be rewarded. I guess the teaching has changed, much like how the tools were not a source of income in the old days.
Joe- EXACTLY, that's what i am trying to get across. You cannot apply everything that was discovered/said/prescribed, etc, back in the old days to right now. My Diamond and Emerald were not the D and E they are now-- not until about 2-3 years ago. (But my D is one of the most profitable diamond in a while, and yes, they honestly say he earned $_____ and it is Qstar + system money)
As soon as everyone stops focusing on the 'old way' and understand that, yes the tools stuff is in the open, and yes there are some groups working with it right, then we can start making progress.
I have NEVER been told: this biz is the end all be all, but I will admit that to make this work (or any other business for that matter) it cannot be second to your stock portfolio, or second to your search for a big break real estate. Any big business owners directly disagree? (but it doesnt mean you have to completely abandon them either, we have individuals that are simultaneous accumulating wealth as a Q12 and with rental property...)
Brad, the issue is that the diamonds lied in the old days. They said no money was made from tools. After it was exposed and the facts could not be covered up, now they admit money is made and a limited amount is made. If they lied then, how do you really know if they speak the truth now?
Well, this is gonna hit the 100post ceiling and qblog is gonna stop it for the sake of sending us to the archive.
Before we hit 100 Id like to thank Woods for meeting my challenge, Id like to challenge Creylish and anyone else to do the same. It should be very interesting to see how these guys do over the course of the next few years.
Id also like to thank Brad for revoking his word when he said he'd leave this site. Not only that but he doesnt have the gumption to step up to the plate of the 4% challenge.
I guess ome of these guys have more confidence that others do.
Again KUDOS TO WOODS
There's a celing?
Joe: I was not there, and it looks like you have evidence they lied, i am not going to protect that action. HOWEVER, I have seen the money from my Q12 and Emerald, they havent lied to me. And honestly, none of those 'kingpins' you despise have come to help me directly, so i could care less they lied then. I hope they cleaned it up (i trust they did) and push on. How long would you want someone to hold something against you? How much time, or what would they have to say, for you to get over it?
AND FU, my friend... yes, we have had good times... DO NOT lie to this blog, or twist truths, that i merely refused your offer. Your challenge was based on mine, and you REFUSED mine. Do not make this childish, and do not make statements clearly to tarnish someones honor when you know good and well it will be construed as a lie. And you're right, something lured me back here. But i don't have to explain that to you.
Brad, my contention is that the diamonds lied before. They said no money was made from tools.
The tools income was uncovered. Now the diamonds say tehy make some money off tools.
How do we know they don't make most of their fortune from tools? If the average diamond in quixtar makes $150,000 a year, how do they own mansions, aircraft, fleets of cars, take fabulous vacations?
There must be another source of income and more than likely it's the tools.
Think about it, rock groups make millions from concerts and selling music cd's. Basically that's what the diamonds are doing, selling seminars and cd's/tapes.
Makes perfect sense to me.
BB> I did not ask where his money came from. It was not an issue at that point, nor will it ever be because even if his money came 100% from tools/tapes, he sincerely wants me making a profit off my Quixtar business from the day I started working it, period. That's pretty much the conversation he had with me and ten other business owners who spent the day at his place.
JoeCool18> The paperwork I have read says a first year diamond will not make less than $250,000 IF they build it the way they teach. And every time I have heard the plan, I have heard that there are "other bonuses" in the business. I ass*u*me*d that they were from tools/functions/ect. I sponsored someone who did platinum, and watched their bonuses grow far beyond mine. There are four people in my "crossline" who have started after I did and are all running platinum volume. I have asked them about the truth of the SA4400, and they say that the checks are bigger than it states. Why would they lie when they have NO financial interest in me or my group?
As for diamonds lying about their income. Is there someone here who could post the place where they got this information. I would like to do research and find out more...
Brad,
For goodness sake, you are embarassing yourself! I will acknowledge on behalf of all the critics - "You are our hero. We fall down at your feet and worship you, O Future Diamond!" Scratch, that make it "Future Crown Ambassadar".
Seriously, dude.
I for one, thought that whole discusssion about you becoming a Diamond was quite pointless. CAN you become a Diamond? Sure, you can. The operative word here is can. What the heck does that prove anyway? You just might be the one in 2000 or so that do make Diamond. WHAT THE HECK DOES THAT PROVE? It takes a minimum of 450 IBOs underneath you to make you a Diamond, with the 100 PV 6-4-2 model. Can you prove they are all profitable? And please don't regurgitate Tony's argument that 'they are working their way up/they are making an investment'. The population of the earth is finite, which means even if everybody decides to become an IBO, there will be a majority of people 'working their way up' FOREVER, i.e. losing their shirts to keep a few "Diamonds" like you "Retired"!
BRAD>> Are you man (or woman) enough to step out from behind this blog, from behind work Larsen has done for you, and tidbits of fact going back 20 years are challenge the 2-5 year plan? Please refer to the saved posts from before and you can read my challenge.
I am really baffled here! Somebody please explain this to me. What backbone is required to go off-line and exchange information??? What are you going to do? Engage in fisticuffs? Your chest-pounding makes it sound like you are a soldier engaged in a heroic soldier engaged in a fire-fight in Iraq! This is a public medium broadcasting to the whole wide world (#2 on google-search for Quixtar), that Quixtar is a Fraud. Don't you think it is better for you to post your "proof" that you made it to Diamond and that you are profitable, on here, where the whole wide world can see it? Wouldn't that be great for your business? You got some great free advertising! And you can shut up the critics for once and all!
BRAD>> Couple of questions: How much time did you actually spend in the business?
I see this pattern with you, Brad. You either ignore stuff we (critics) write/question, or you just aren't paying attention. Did you even read that post How I got into this? Go read it again. I was never an IBO. But I have been prospected many, many times. And contrary to what you would believe, even today almost every single one of the critics' criticisms are true. I crashed a meeting just last month. It's unbelievable how nothing has changed in the nearly 5-years that I have been doing this (crashing Quixtar meetings). I will come back and give you more details, got to run for now (Darn, this fighting Quixtar is becoming a full-time ;-) job).
BRAD>> Perceptive, you do have passion, and quite a vigor, and it is noble (in a way) for you to take off as a "lone ranger" (now finding a home in blogging), but what have you proven so far? What can people say, if you died today, that you did for society in this quest?
Again, what's with you Brad? Did you even read anything on my blog? In case you didn't notice, I said "Lone Ranger Complex". I was just poking a little fun at myself. Now finding a home in blogging? What's your problem with blogging, seriously? Are you implying that I have become a coward now, and hiding behind a blog? No, I still crash meetings. Blogging is just an extension, I get to reach a much wider audience. BTW, if you haven't read all of my blog, you might want to read (and I mean really read) three of my posts devoted to that whole "Private Franchising" hogwash that you peddle to new recruits. See if you can poke any holes in my arguments. And shameless plug here, but folks, the rest of you are also welcome to dissect those posts, pick it apart - click on my name at the bottom of this comment to go to my blog.
I will be back to address some more of the stuff that you raised. Especially your comparison of John T Reed with Kiyosaki. Seriously, if you think Kiyosaki is as/more credible than John T Reed, I think you have got major problems. And no, I am not just making a statement without backing it up. I will be back to address this issue, and I would love to see you defend that clown, Kiyosaki.
Oh, btw, Brad, I honestly wouldn't have any problems taking it offline with you. But I am having way too much fun ;-) crashing meetings. And I am in no mood to have my identity revealed.
Bravo, perceptive!
And Che Brad: Viva la Revolucion!!
I'm glad I'm not the only one who is confused about being 'called out.' You want to go offline, I give you my email, you say "I'm not going to do the work for you." I'm supposed to email myself? Is this an indication of your logic and savvy? What stupid challenge am I supposed to take? That the 2-5 year plan doesn’t work?
OK – the 2-5 year plan doesn’t work. Basis – go back to the very top and see what the title of this post is. 4% are still around after 5 years. 4% Genius!!! Did the other 96% say ‘hey, I made some great residual income, I’m done.’? Let me answer for you (see, I’m doing YOUR work): “I
If it is anything like most of us BW people, I would guess conservatively at $2,000 a year for a single, perhaps rare cases as high as $5,000 a year
Posted by: xanadustc | February 25, 2006 3:40 AM