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October 13, 2005
Make Them Laugh
By QBlog in Humor
"If you are going to tell people the truth, you'd better make them laugh. Otherwise they'll kill you."
- George Bernard Shaw
Comments
Your brick walled negative stance on Quixtar is clouding your judgement.
You essentially are now implying that Quixtar diamonds are telling the truth. This possibly could be in conflict with how you otherwise perceive them to be.
Yeah Joe. you're about to be traded ;)
I think he was trying to say that many Diamonds BELIEVE they are telling the truth. (Remember, not all Diamonds are kingpins, in on the workings of the scam.) And if they BELIEVE they are telling the truth about how they became successful in the business, they have to tell a few jokes (make 'em laugh) to avoid being "killed."
Certainly, telling falsehoods doesn't make 'em laugh, either. So they'd might as well be funny - - or they're dead.
PW
I think Diamonds telling jokes is more of a generic selling technique. Telling jokes, regardless of telling the truth or lying, puts people at ease, and tells them, "Hey, he thinks what I think is funny!"
Amen Shawn!! Thats my frickin point! They don't even listen! And Thats what makes some of you CRITBOTS!!!
Looking for valid info on Quixtar?
Read: www.thisbiznow.com or www.quixtarfacts.com - but don't expect anything but biased opinions here, from either side.
George Bernard Shaw? Is he in the Puryear group????
I have never heard of him as I only read the always insightful Book of the Month put out by the Britt/Winters Team.
Glad to see you still have the generality shotgun loaded with buckshot Tony.
Salesmanship as Brian points out, is far different then truth telling,
Salesmanship is a bending or conversion of a persons will, with the goal of convincing them to accept a product or idea one might be attempting to profit off of. Selling Quix is not much different then trying to sell extended warranties on products. Both are hard sells and most people wish they had never gotten into them. ( I am sure this will raise issue :)
Truth telling, on the other hand often is even harder to get people to stomach. Unless it follows the current belief system of the audience, you are probably going to get some pretty irate reactions (Tony vs anti-quix ideas is a good example) Unlike sales, the telling of truth is not usually intended to benefit the teller but rather the listener.
So the laugh part, well if you can make someone laugh, you have triggered in their brain a partial relaxation from stress as well as a feeling of belonging. So its the spoonful of sugar helps the medicine go down technique. Most people don't go through life consistently believing they are ignorant of truths and it is most unsettling when someone challenges there current way of thinking.
Its hard in life accepting that those things that we hold so close to our heart as "our" truths may in fact not always be correct. Its a problem that has plagued all of humanity throughout time.
So laugh it up and question your perspective of reality from time to time, it does a body good.
Yes, I meant the kingpins appear to believe that they are speaking the truth. It's very much like how Tony thinks he's got the only ethical upline in all of quixtar. Despite countless accounts of ruined lives (such) as Frustrated Wife, Tony believes that BWW is an ethical LOS.
While Tony's personal sponsor may be ethical, it's pretty apparent that the LOS is not, based on the many testimonials given by those who were ruined.
Tony has yet to produce the testimonials of the 1-10 ratio of people whose marriages were saved or strengthened by quixtar.
T> Read: www.thisbiznow.com or www.quixtarfacts.com - but don't expect anything but biased opinions here, from either side.
DI> And the above sites are supposed to be unbiased? Hmm, let's think for a minute...I can either get my information from a corporation that wants my business...or I can get information from various sites that have no interest in my money one way or the other.
There is a wealth of information on the internet on independent sites such as amquix.info, if you don't like the commentary on this site. Check out the Qx-written sites as well, but don't expect them to give you the whole truth about the business.
Oh, and what kind of marketing amateurs devised the name "ThisBizNow.com"? Are they marketing to retarded kids or something? Who can take a name like that seriously?
Tony,
I hope you are not implying that those propaganda websites you mention are not biased. Because if you do, you really deserve to get your butt kicked. I found it utterly disgusting that in the comments section of the previous post, you pointed FW to those websites and told her to "go to a few more meetings". As a single guy, you don't even qualify to evaluate people's marriages, since you know nothing about marriage. So, please, shut up when it comes to things you know nothing about.
Also please don't spread that propaganda. You are not going to convince any Quixtar critic that it's a good "opportunity", unless you call losing money a good opportunity.
People who are undecided would do well to read what critics have to say, because as they say, "Where there is smoke, there must be fire".
Thankfully more and more people are now coming out with their stories about how this scam operation has ruined their lives, so that others may avoid the same trap.
Hey Tony - pulled your head out yet?
No, I guess that I'm not THAT cool, your prior DF comment elsewhere nonwithstanding. I still believe that you are "drinking the kool-aide" as regards the system. You cite the websites www.thisbiznow.com and www.quixtarfacts.com ad nauseum, but as far as I can tell there is no interactivity on those sites - you must take the corporate position for what is presented. You cannot even remotely compare a discussion/opinion site to those corporate paeans - not that they are "bad"; they are just not a discussion.
I use humour/ laughter in my sales situations - where appropriate - because I find that gentle humour creates a better environment to get my point across. Beats the heck out of yellin' and screamin', IMHO
Dawson, I said "Thats what makes some of you CRITBOTS!!!" So explain how "some" equates to me having a "generality shotgun" Man talk about the pot calling the kettle black!! Thats the Very problem with this site!... all the generalizations and asumptions being thrown around by the "critbots"! As Scott N has even pointed out and he's on the critic side!
Joe> Tony thinks he's got the only ethical upline in all of quixtar.
Tony> WROOONG!! Joe, how bout sticking to just puting words in your own mouth! I think there are 10's of Thousands of ethical uplines! And I know there are also some selfish, unethical ones as well - the same as with any organization!
Joe> Despite countless accounts of ruined lives
T> BullSH!T! Countless? So far I've counted 3, JD, TD, and FW. THREE?! Countless. I've seen dozens, maybe 100 couples that praise this team for saving/improving their marriages!
You know my aunt married a cop, they had 3 kids and now are divorced, mainly because of his job. How many cops get divorced? Should we ban cops?! How many other marriages are wrecked because a guy neglects his wife and family spending too much time @ the office, too much focus on his career? (Or the wife does)? You blame the PERSON, not the company! How novel an idea is that? You're the type of people that want to sue the gun manufacturer when a teenager uses a gun at school! Ignorant, Liberal, Pathetic!
J> Tony believes that BWW is an ethical LOS
T> could you be anymore vague? Larry Winters had 20,000 coming to functions, he's just 1 guy on Paul Miller team. Paul is a Crown. Paul is just one guy on Britts team, Britt is a CAM with a downline CAM, not to even mention the Gala team!! I'm not gonna say that EVERYONE under BWW is ethical! But I will say that my sponsor is!, and so is my upline Ruby, Saphire, Emerald, and Diamond!! And I believe DD Joe M is ethical as well as Larry. Now is everyone on Larry team ethical? I'm sure of the ~50,000 IBOs on Larry's team, some are mean, or shady, or dishonest. But the leaders that I see locally and the ones I've met at other Opens, Rallies, etc. ARE genuainley good people who are honest. Are they Perfect? NO! But they're good, real, caring people. MY LOS is ethical, thats me to my sponsor to my emerald to Larry. Never met Paul or Bill, never even seen in person. I have met Joe and Larry numerous times.
Joe>Tony has yet to produce the testimonials of the 1-10 ratio of people whose marriages were saved or strengthened by quixtar.
T> And Joe has yet to pull his head out of his @ss long enough to read my Multiple posts explaining how I am Not going to post the names of upline&crossline couples on the internet or tell them to post their stories here!
Gotta say one thing about Tony...
He is persistent!
T> BullSH!T! Countless? So far I've counted 3, JD, TD, and FW. THREE?! Countless. I've seen dozens, maybe 100 couples that praise this team for saving/improving their marriages!
Joe> 3 accounts (and there are many more on the forum) greatly outnumbers the people who said quixtar or amway saved or strengthened their marriages.
Tony, how do you know your upline diamond is ethical? Do you get to sit in on their secret meetings? Do you get to sit backstage at functions? Unless you are, you certainly don't know what they really are. Of course on stage they will say the right and politically correct things but's it's in the secret meetings and offstage when the dark side comes out. In so many accounts, I've heard and seen personally, poor advice spouted out by the diamonds.
At every function, there are a handful of successful IBO's and the rest of you are losing money (or as Tony says, working their way up). Year after year it's the same thing. Tony admits he's at about break even, makes a little, loses a little.
If the business is so great. why aren't you working it hard so you can be one of the diamonds? It seems like you gotta be insane not to want to get the job done.
Tony> WROOONG!! Joe, how bout sticking to just puting words in your own mouth! I think there are 10's of Thousands of ethical uplines! And I know there are also some selfish, unethical ones as well - the same as with any organization!
Joe> And there are tens of thousands of unethical uplines. What's your point?
Keith Sr. wrote:
"Gotta say one thing about Tony...
He is persistent!"
And CONsistent!
"...don't expect anything but biased opinions here, from either side."
Thats the generality shotgun Tony, oh and try and read more then just the first line of a post.
Have a groovy day.
Lets talk ethical Diamonds for a moment:
“I found my first platinum leg as a co-worker at IBM. He went to a plan and said ‘Doug, I can’t get started, I’m getting married, I have a lot of things going on in my life, I can’t get started’, so I said ‘I’ll tell you what, I’m going to sponsor a bunch of other people and I might not be able to sponsor you if you don’t get in now.’, and he did. It wasn’t totally truthful, but I got him in.�?
-Doug Weir, JM42; "Radical Freedom"
“One of my college buddies, I asked him to go to a plan and he checked with his parents and they said ‘no.’ I finally put him on a line and said, ‘Hey, are we best friends or what?’ He said ‘We’re best friends’, and I said ‘Well, then, you need to go to a meeting with me or else I will be insulted as your friend.’�?
-Doug Weir, JM42; "Radical Freedom"
How about this one (paraphrased, but put in quotes anyway):
"If person A goes to the Function and Person B does not, and they both ask for help, I am going to help Person A and not Person B...I don't care if Amway cares."
-Larry Winters, "Seminar Alexandria, VA", V120
"If someone comes over for a counceling session and tells me they are serious, I pull up their Ditto Delivery profile and show them how serious they really are"
-Wayne Callander, Man are you Ugly, Can't find stock code, email me if you want it)
Creditor: You are late on your VCR payment.
Larry: It's not late, it's not COMMING
Creditor: We need to come and get the VCR
Larry: Go ahead, here's the address
Creditor: That is not your address
Larry: I know, I sold the VCR, you can go get it, but the guy will be mad
-Larry Winters on most of his tapes where he tells his story.
Ethical, huh?
Frustrated Wife> Yes.. My husband is in the Larry Winters team.. The guy that worked in the car wash and the wife that was the cashier ... the ones that tell the story about how broke and poor the were.. but it didn't matter cause the dream was bigger.. My husband didn't have any debt before this business.. no credit cards, nothing.. NOW.. he has more debt that you can imagine.. My husband has told my little girl who is 6 years old that Daddy is going Diamond and what that happens, she will get her own farm , horses, etc.. My husband doesn't look healthy either.. he hardly sleeps.. his meetings go all night... and then he has to work next morning... he hardly eats regular food, so he can have the points he eats protein bars, meal replacement shakes, etc... I don't know what else to do... I'm in desperate need...
Ohh yeah one more thing... I have caught my husband many times taking money out of my daughter's piggy bank to pay for his weekly meetings... his only response.. SHE WILL GET IT BACK IN BIG...
Joe> I believe this IBO is in the same team that Tony is affiliated with. But Tony's upline isn't like that. Guess what Tony, your upline is like that.
Your sponsor might not be, but it's pretty apparent that there is some unethical people upline from you, and it looks like it's the diamond. Surprise surprise!
Keith Sr. wrote:
"Gotta say one thing about Tony...
He is persistent!"
And CONsistent!
Or should I say PROsistent!!!
And how much money were you making in your business again, Tony?
BTW, I have to say that we were one of the couples who would have said, "The business has made our marriage better." You know why? Because the BWW SYTEM had brainwashed us into believing that the people "outside the business" had such bad marriages that we HAD to be better, because "we had a dream."
What a load of crock.
Since we've 'come out' of the BWW cult (Yes, I am convinced the system is a cult) we've had more fun, more time together, less stress and MADE MORE MONEY.
We now see that the "ideal marriage" as propounded by Britt, Winters, et al was a fiction that none of THEM are even living. It's a sham, but it keeps people in because they think "IF we just do a little more in the business, we'll have a relationship like that..."
Tony, you are a pathetic little dude. I used to feel sorry for you, but after your post to FW, I don't feel sorry for you anymore.
Great post, quixmire! Especially when you said: ""IF we just do a little more in the business, we'll have a relationship like that..."
This is exactly what we experienced in WWDB as well. I was miserable, but I was trying to "fake it, 'til I make it". If I spoke that I had a great marriage, then I would. I also felt like everyone else in the biz is OK in their marriages, so what's my problem? It wasn't until I saw all the testimonials on Amquix.info that I realized that I was not alone.
Tony, have you noticed that your fact filled sites www.thisbiznow.com and www.quixtarfacts.com do not have a place to discuss the content?
Why is that? You'd think they'd welcome the opportunity to show a bunch of critics what's what.
I dunno man, you are really not that bright.
"You're the type of people that want to sue the gun manufacturer when a teenager uses a gun at school! Ignorant, Liberal, Pathetic!"
And you are worried about people using a generality shotgun?
Grow up man. How old are you, like 23?
You're all messed up kid.
I have been reading the comments over the last couple of days with interest and sadness. I feel I need to step in and say something because I believe reducing these posts to nasty ridicule is a waste of space. Not to mention the energy it takes. I speak from experience in this business, although not with the organizations that have been mentioned here. We even passed 7500PV a few times and saw some nice cheques come in. We were mentors to many people in our group as well as being mentored by upline. We were "the couple" who were showing plans and chasing our dreams. As someone said, "paraded in front of other IBO's" to show it could be done. Just make that commitment. Your kids will thank you later. Your family will be calling you for favours. Early retirement etc. etc. etc. As a couple and as a family we were completely committed. Integrity is big deal to us. It's what sold us on this business and it's how we sold the business to prospects. Like I said, integrity is it. It was when we realized that our integrity would be in jeopardy if we continued to sell this "lie" that we walked away. Why was it a lie? Because every month we would look at our group and see who was making money - no one. As our pin levels grew so did the pressure for the system. You would have to be a fool not to see the profit being made. Does that mean profit is bad? No, but not telling people how you really got your boat, fancy house and cars, AND YOUR FREEDOM - well, that's bad. So, from our experience, I would like to point out a few things so anyone reading this can make an educated decision. I would like to refer to the site www.thisbiznow.com which has some interesting numbers as to how great the success rate really is. On the site it says that Quixtar had paid out bonuses to over 380,300 IBO's in the year 2004. I would like to point out that this does not mean they payed out 380,300 bonuses every month in 2004. From our own experience there were many IBO's who only collected one cheque and then quit or the ones who just never pursued it. For the sake of numbers though, let's be generous and use 380,300 as the number of IBO's for our 2004 calculations. On the site it gives the average incomes of Diamond at $175,116, Emerald at $70,954 and Q12 Platinum at $41,900.(Q12 means you hold 7500PV for 12 consecutive months - not done by many) Let's look at Emerald at $70,954. From stage we are painted the picture of freedom and having our own choices. Really? Maybe it's just me, but that's not a lot - certainly not or "freedom" And then of course Diamond. $175,116?? That's supposed to get us "LIFESTYLE" like they show in the videos at function? I must be using the wrong accountant because my guy can't give me that lifestyle on that amount. But wait, there is the "other" profit. Then one not mentioned until you are so far in and have so much invested that you can't turn back. Could that be how they AFFORD LIFESTYLE? Just a question.
The other thing the site shows is the percentages of IBO's who are at these levels. This is where it gets interesting. Again, because I'm feeling generous I'll use 380,300 to calculate these numbers.
#of Diamonds - .0176% = 66.93 IBO's
#of Emeralds - .0420% = 159.73 IBO's
#of Q12Platininums - .244% = 92,793IBO's
So the dream of Diamond is being sold from stage fiercely and out of 380,300 IBO's who received a bonus cheque - 66.93 of them were Diamond. "OUCH", that's a hard reality check. So for those of you like Tony who want to believe, I say, "I admire your determination (although not your choice of words at times), and that you already have greatness in you. YOU choose the avenue to allow yourself to be great and NO ONE can tell you your choices are wrong for YOU. Not your upline, downline or next door neighbor. Please tread the water carefully and ask the right questions." And to those of you who have walked down this path and found disappointment I say this, "Learn from your challenges and commit to yourself to being a better person for learning what you have. Again, you are already great, you just need to do something with it and that could be as simple as helping an elderly person with their groceries or changing a child's life through mentorship. You should also be the best nurse, waiter/ress, pilot, maintenance worker etc., and definitely the best parent/child, sibling, friend etc., that you are capable of. Definitely be proud of YOU, because you have a purpose. We all do." Well that's more than 2cents but I hope someone can learn from it.
Tony, Tony, Tony,
You flinched, I called, you lost. You simply stated that there are 10 fixed marriages to every broken one. I say you are lying, and have asked you to prove it. Much like the typical quixbot however a challenge is your cue to run back into your hole and claim privacy. Now I know there are more then 3 stories but we will start with those since it is from your mouth. That means you owe me 30 stories big guy.
Your privacy claim is hogwash. On this forum you have only known those three stories by board names, no other information provided. All I am asking is that you present the story in a first person format, someway that we can verify it is their words.
My guess is you are too afraid to ask anyone for such a story because then they would know you post on "negative" sites, from what I remember a big NO-NO. Also, Tony if you are a hard charging IBO going Diamond, what are you on the internet for at 6:58pm posting to negative sites. When I was in at 6:58pm I was either showing a plan, doing a follow-up, contacting, or counseling. It is what was called primetime. I don' think you are going to get to Diamond very quickly posting to negative websites during primetime. More evidence that you are truly "Poorhouse Tony".
Integrity Rules:
That was a great post. For my part, I'm sick of Tony's blog diarreah all over this place. He goes and and on.. and it's always the same story. He's not making any money, but he "will someday." Other uplines are scammers, but never his. The system is there for him, but he doesn't HAVE to participate. You're right though - name calling doesn't help.
I think posts like yours do. Thanks again.
at the beginning of this thread the honesty of diamonds was questioned. Out of curiosity the other day, I listened to a BWW cd called "submission" it was fairly disgusting, but one of the wives tried to explain the difference between lying and saying something not true, but if you believe it will be true someday is okay. I hope that made sense, but basically she was saying it was okay to lie if you believe it will happen one day. To me that is still lying. So I guess that is why it is okay for diamonds to liem because they really believe they are telling the truth
MLMSCAM that was a funny reference to PROsumer. I hope other people caught on
Yea mlm' that was clever, I hope more than 1 caught on -he only capitalized the first three letters.
Joe, I'm going by what I see - the Same as You!! you can say I don't know if my Diamond is ethical, just as You don't know if your boss, or pastor, or your uncle is ethical - who knows what they do behind closed doors. So in that sense you only know if You are ethical.
You know what X, Doug W is not my Diamond. Not to mention, what did he really do? He told a friend that he was gonna sponsor a bunch of people and maybe not have time to work with him later. That could've very well happened. So it motivated his friend to get in now, and his friend went Platinum! What if he hadn't said that and the guy never gets in?
#2, he told his friend to make his own decision and not be a momma's boy?? Big woop! Hey if this guy was his friend, why the heck couldn't he just go to a meeting. What he should listened to mommy and daddy and not gone? My sponsor's parents said the same thing, but atleast he was man enough to make his own decision and check it out anyways... now his parent are Thrilled he didn't listen to them! He & his wife paid for their own wedding!
The quote from Wayne Calendar I don't agree with, and we don't teach that. Wayne is Not part of the Markiewicz team or even on Larry Winters team!
Then you had 2 quotes from Larry. You know what, if I had the size of a team Larry did, or even just the size of a team of my upline Ruby, I'd have to do the samething, and so would you. His time is limited. If he could help them both, he would. But if he can only meet with a certain # of people, the ones who really want the help and knowledge are gonna be the ones going to seminars and conferences!
I mean come on, that like going to your professor and asking for 1-on-1 help saying I'd like to get my grade up, and the professor says, well then maybe you should come to my lectures and study sessions once in a while! Did you ever look at it like that?
And the 2nd Larry quote is meant to be funny. The crowd gets a kick when he talks about his anecdotes with creditors. The guy was broke. I'm sure all those debts are paid off now. I see you left that part out, when he pleaded with creditors to be patient- he'd pay them back with interest when he was wealthy. No, you just mention the one meant to get a laugh.
Joe18, don't tell me that just cause some guy on Larrys team is stealing from his daughter that "my upline is like that!" You say my Diamond is unethical, my Diamond is Alan! A bad IBO does not mean the upline diamond is bad!
quixmire, its a shame you think that the marriages portrayed on stage don't exist. Cause liek I said before, I see brand new couples get in hear how their marriage has improved. Some people haven't given up on that ideal of marriage. Once again follow the principle not the person.
rocket, you the one messed up - it was not me who accused anyone of using a generality shotgun! That was said to me! Try reading harder. And guess what, not all websites are blogsites! The site is meant to share testimonies, facts, and figures! You say I'm not too bright? Buddy, I graduated college with a 3.23 GPA/ 3.6 Major GPA, & made Dean's List 3 semesters. My IQ is 139... I doubt you're even in triple digits.
IntegRulz, thank you for your story. My question is didn't you start at Zero like everyone else. Weren't you once a 600pver, not making much money? But then what happened, you stayed steady and made it to 7500 and as you said got some nice checks. But then you looked at your group who were still just 600, 1000, etc. and say they weren't making money, (after expenses) that a key point at 100pv you will make money, its just $7/8 bucks. At 1000pv I make over $200.
So why did that bother you? Didn't you not make much at 600pv. So why not help them move onto 2500, 4000 and 7500?
You say no one knows about the money from tools until its too late to go back, but thats Not True. We openly talking about money available from BWW in the Open Meetings!
hey truth, newsflash it wasn't 6:58, it was 5:58 and I was at WORK!! I left shortly after cause I was meeting with a new IBO at 6:30, which is why I know it couldn't have been 6:58! And you can say I back down when challenged all you want - I sure as h#ll didn't back down when I said I've seen checks for $120,000, and $90,000+! All you critbots were like "yea right now Diamond makes $120,000 in one month - and then I showed the checks!! So kiss my A$$ critbot. Privacy is an issue, i'm not gona post names, and I'e alrady said I'm not asking crossline to come to a negtive site and post personal info, if they want to they'll do it on there own. But like you said, most don't waste there time here.
Tony> Joe, I'm going by what I see - the Same as You!! you can say I don't know if my Diamond is ethical, just as You don't know if your boss, or pastor, or your uncle is ethical - who knows what they do behind closed doors. So in that sense you only know if You are ethical.
Joe> So where do you get off even saying your upline is ethical? You really don't know and you admitted it in your statement. Cased on what I've personally seen and from testimonials here, it seems that most upline are unethical.
And Tony, you haven't provided proof that
even one couple had their marriage helped by quixtar. No on is asking for specific names, we just want to hear how quixtar helped save a marriage with some generic details.
You should just admit you were tapespeaking when you said you could provide 10 to 1 good stories versus bad.
Tony> Joe18, don't tell me that just cause some guy on Larrys team is stealing from his daughter that "my upline is like that!" You say my Diamond is unethical, my Diamond is Alan! A bad IBO does not mean the upline diamond is bad!
Joe> BWW, WWDB, and LOS, they all teach their downline to copy upline. Therefore somewhere in your team, stuff like this must be taught
"I graduated college with a 3.23 GPA/ 3.6 Major GPA, & made Dean's List 3 semesters. My IQ is 139."
Then act like it. Quixtar is nothing more to your heroes than a way to make money off of motivation.
You talk about diamonds having unlimited time, yet when a diamond talks about not working with someone off the system, you say "His time is limited"
So which is it? You know what? For the amount of time you spend on message boards doing damage control, you can't be as plugged in as you seem to think you need to be in order to be successful.
I found this really interesting:
" I see brand new couples get in hear how their marriage has improved."
Do you not think that for anybody to say their marriage is not as good as it was before the business would be negative? Of COURSE people who are still involved say their marriages are better, otherwise, they're being negative, and not part of the system. Only after they quit, they actually are able to give themselves permission to say things as they are.
A guy as clever as you profess you are should be able to understand that.
Wow, Tony has a black belt and he has a genius level IQ! If this Nietzchian Superman has to work hard to achieve in the business, what chance would the rest of us cretins stand? We would never make it as up and coming industrialists!
Tony, did you get your IQ score through standardized testing, or one of those Scientology booths?
Just wondering, I can ask due to having a 145 IQ myself (standardized). But unlike yourself I hold no merrit to IQ, its like asking how fast someone can potentialy run...not how fast they can actually run this second.
I know you were just rebutting rocket, but you threw out the impressive numbers and I just wanted to find out how you relate scholastic success and IQ to common sense and understanding your involved with a business plan with serious flaws that regularly and systematicaly lead to the destruction of peoples lives and families. How does your IQ deal with that? You seem to have a mean streak as well, maybe that helps.
Tony,
Way to justify away all the ethical arguements. You must agree that the end justifies the means.
The FACT is that Doug lied on stage and promoted or bragged about it.
He was NOT suggesting to not be a 'mammas boy', he used his friendship to MANIPULATE, hence, "I will be INSULTED as your friend if you don't come to a meeting with meet " (emphasis mine). This undoubtably stemmed from Ron Puryears, "Hey, don't you trust me..." tactic on "The How and Why of Contacting and Inviting".
You say "I am sure he paid off those creditors", Show me the evidence, Tony. Another legal thing he could have done is declared bankruptcy and never paid them at all. (Which is unethical dispite being legal). How do you know he did not to that? Give me the evidence or be quite.
So, Doug is not your Diamond. I know Joe M is your upline EDC (I have not yet seen the release on his being a Double, please post it or email it to me so I can verify) Who is your Diamond? It is not like we can track you down from that. I bet I have a few tapes with direct unethical quotes. Try me if you think that he is so good.
BTW, I agree that you can not know for sure whether one is ethical or not in a universal sense, you can know if they are ethical based upon character, which you can only know by spending quality AND quantity time around them.
But, when someone is talking from stage, you can not be sure who they truely are. I CAN, however, state that they are unethical if they are telling that they got their respective businesses by lying or manipulting the converstation.
Exactly, Rocket. That was my point with my post about my marriage. I couldn't admit to myself or anyone else how messed up things were. I HAD to keep speaking positive, even to myself, or else I was being negative and would never succeed in the biz.
Tony, you know what they say about genius and madness... ;)
One more thing Tony,
The BWW system, which INCLUDES ALL OF LARRY'S TEAM WHETHER YOU LIKE IT OR NOT endorses the BWW SOT releases, and therefore, the tapes can be used against the arguement, even though many LOS's have another rule to check upline before trying anything new, even onm a tape. That rule is in place to keep YOU where they WANT you. All my quotes were on SOT's
Tony said "But then you looked at your group who were still just 600, 1000, etc. and say they weren't making money, (after expenses) that a key point at 100pv you will make money, its just $7/8 bucks. At 1000pv I make over $200."
Tony, you do understand the difference between revenue and net profit, don't you? Using the phrase "making money" as you have above only confuses the issue. In the same paragraph you used the same phrase to refer to revenue and net profit. To more effectively make your case, you need to be more selective in your use of language.
Frankenberry, that was funny stuff.
Quixtar is Dead
Thus spoke Zarathustra
F>Wow, Tony has a black belt and he has a genius level IQ! If this Nietzchian Superman has to work hard to achieve in the business, what chance would the rest of us cretins stand? We would never make it as up and coming industrialists!
X>As a student of philosophies and religions and knowing full well what you are talking about, I can only say:
ROFLMPLBO
Zarathustra
Thank you, and your name- brilliant. I haven't read any Nietzche in years, but if memory serves, his ruthless brand of egoism is perfect for a quixtar kingpin. I think it might behoove us to pepper these threads with more references to the great philosophers, this would mask the obvious insecurity we feel arguing with Tony, who is clearly one of the mental titans of this or any age.
T> IntegRulz, thank you for your story. My question is didn't you start at Zero like everyone else. Weren't you once a 600pver, not making much money? But then what happened, you stayed steady and made it to 7500 and as you said got some nice checks. But then you looked at your group who were still just 600, 1000, etc. and say they weren't making money, (after expenses) that a key point at 100pv you will make money, its just $7/8 bucks. At 1000pv I make over $200.
So why did that bother you? Didn't you not make much at 600pv. So why not help them move onto 2500, 4000 and 7500
DI> It's funny how Tony automatically places the blame on IntegRulz for "not helping" his downline make more money and completely IGNORES IR's main point about the lack of integrity in the business, as well as the INDISPUTABLE figures of the tiny percentages of IBOs that had achieved Diamond status.
Cognitive dissonance is a great thing, isn't it, Tony? Especially in Quixtar!
I see that Tony made another reference to the real world vs. the magical fairy land of Quixtar:
"You know my aunt married a cop, they had 3 kids and now are divorced, mainly because of his job. How many cops get divorced? Should we ban cops?"
Tony, show me one police academy on the face of the continent that tells it's new recruits that their marriage will be better than before because of their career in law enforcement.
How many times are people told by (ha ha) "leaders" in this business that it will make their marriage better?
Wow. You are really smart Tony.
Tony's upline Diamonds are Alan and Michelle Leinenger.
Tell me Tony Baloney, the year that Alan and Michelle fell out of qualification, but we're still recognized on stage all year as Diamonds, was that ethical? Yes, they requalified the year after that, but why did only a few people in the group know that they were not qualified diamonds? How is that ethical???
LampLighter will reveal more about Tony Baloney as time permits...
Hey tony,
In previous posts you claimed you were retired and asked us how our week was after you said yours was great as a free man.
So in the qoute below you say you have a job..which is it?
Tonys said:
"hey truth, newsflash it wasn't 6:58, it was 5:58 and I was at WORK!! I left shortly after cause I was meeting with a new IBO at 6:30"
http://www.localareawatch.org/2005/10/the_illusion_of.html
The Mayor's Office recommends that everyone, including Tony, read this article about how Amway screwed up what was once a pretty cool town.
The problem is that Tony believes whatever he hears on stage. Hey Tony, don't feel bad, I too believed what I heard from people on stage. Of course I have since been enlightened.
In Tony's own statements, we don't really know who is ethical or not.
Tony> Tony> Joe, I'm going by what I see - the Same as You!! you can say I don't know if my Diamond is ethical, just as You don't know if your boss, or pastor, or your uncle is ethical - who knows what they do behind closed doors. So in that sense you only know if You are ethical.
Joecool> Ok so with that being said, why do you believe everything the diamond "on stage" says? Is it because they wear a nice suit and drive a nice car? It's strange how these speakers on stage are given more credibility than someone's family or someone's spouse. Sounds cult-like to me.
p.s. Did Ryan Hicks take it to the top yet?
ex-dd> In previous posts you claimed you were retired and asked us how our week was after you said yours was great as a free man.
DI> I don't think Tony claimed that he was retired. I think he made big claims that he's expecting to be retired in a few years (haha).
First, I just want to Lamplighter, I hope you're not trying to act like you figured something out the way you 'exposed' who my diamond was (although Joe, I believe wasn't bright enough to pick up on it. I said in this very topic:
"don't tell me that just cause some guy on Larrys team is stealing from his daughter that "my upline is like that!" You say my Diamond is unethical, my Diamond is Alan! A bad IBO does not mean the upline diamond is bad!"
So Joe if someone cheats on their wife or kills someone, there must be an upline Diamond teaching that? Then why is Everyone doin git then. I don't even have time right now to deal with this. Maybe on Monday I'll address some of the legitimate arguments.
Oh, but by the way 139 IQ is not genius, and no I don't place much weight on it, but as you said, I was refuting rocket.
Lastly before I go take in a Friday night football game with my dad, and enjoy my weekend, I'd like to address fake-dd...
Buddy, set the bong down and pull the needle out of your arm- I have Never said I was retired. I have more than once stated that I work for a Fortune 10 company!
Now, I'm gonna go enjoy my weekend. (I'm doing a charity event on Sat, and Sunday I'm getting with my brand new IBO and later making some calls)
Tony, you're not even making sense here! Why don't you save your replies for "when you have time" or maybe for when you're coherent enough to actually get a point across. Good lord man, you post some unintelligible drivel and you think that you've made some sort of point?
Tony> So Joe if someone cheats on their wife or kills someone, there must be an upline Diamond teaching that? Then why is Everyone doin git then. I don't even have time right now to deal with this. Maybe on Monday I'll address some of the legitimate arguments.
Joecool18> Tony, I was joking when I spoke about FW's husband stealing from the piggy bank. Don't take everything so personally, it's not like I said Tony is stealing from someone's piggy bank at his upline's advice.
My point is simple: There are many stories of quixtar people lying and cheating. Some of these stories are about diamonds themselves who are teaching. For example as Xanacdustc says bill britt spoke about his good marriage while he was separated!
But Tony's reponse is that you can still build the business. True, but why not expose bill britt for the liar he is? Dean kosage the same thing. Howie Danzik lied about going diamond as a single. I don't know why some of these lies are told but they are lies. How do you know they aren't lying about a whole lot more??? When upline teaches fale it till you make it (translated = lying), and seeing people lose their homes to buy function tickets, losing electricity in their homes to buy cd's, and now we hear of a guy stealing from his daughter's piggy bank to finance a function.
Tony, you can claim all you want that your upline is good, but there's enough evidence of people being hurt by the QMO systems to advise people to avoid the opportunity altogether.
And as Tony said himself, you really don't know who'e ethical. Apparenty there aren't a lot of ethical people involved with quixtar QMO's.
"Oh, but by the way 139 IQ is not genius, and no I don't place much weight on it, but as you said, I was refuting rocket."
So, if you don't put much weight on it, how does that refute me?
BTW, let me know when you find that police academy that tells their recruits how much better their marriages will be once they are full fledged cops.
I'll refresh your memory, as you were telling people how much better Quixtar marriages are:
" I see brand new couples get in hear how their marriage has improved."
The system teaches no speak-a-da-negative, no?
So if you were having problems with marriage, how do you deal with it, as it pertains to the business?
Not that you'd know, since you're not married, although I am beginning to see why that is.
AWESOME comment, rocket!
I tried to tell Tony that he is not qualified to say ANYTHING at all about marriage, him being a single (imbecile) guy, but he completely ignored my post. I just wish he would shut up.
Maybe, if he is really lucky, he will one day find a wife who will help him get out of the cult...but I won't hold my breath for that, seeing what he reveals about his personality in his posts...
Frankenberry:
Did you ever meet my good friend Count Chocua?
mlmscam:
Yeah, he was prospecting at the local starbucks, he left the cereal business. Apparently he is "this close" to going emerald. Though this Count Chocula might be a different guy, it is a pretty common name, check your phonebook and you'll see.
daniel,
Not to argue here, but just to point out one thing you said:
"I tried to tell Tony that he is not qualified to say ANYTHING at all about marriage"
also rocket's comment:
"So if you were having problems with marriage, how do you deal with it, as it pertains to the business?
Not that you'd know, since you're not married"
Hmmm so by that very line of reasoning because you are not a Quixtar IBO (or never supposedly were) you are not qualified to speak about it or have an opinion about it?
It's an interesting thought because I am an IBO. In the critics eyes I am not qualified to talk about MY very own business because my thoughts are supposedly brainwashed and I am overly influenced by my upline.
I've never been married, but I do have my own thoughts about it and I would even like to get married. So that means I am unqualified to have any sort of opinion about marriage? Jerry springer was divorced 5 times yet still gives marriage advice and counseling. So that must mean because you either got divorced or you quit the business that you have the only authority to speak of it? That is asenine!
Just making a friendly observation...
Michael> I've never been married, but I do have my own thoughts about it and I would even like to get married. So that means I am unqualified to have any sort of opinion about marriage? Jerry springer was divorced 5 times yet still gives marriage advice and counseling. So that must mean because you either got divorced or you quit the business that you have the only authority to speak of it? That is asenine!
Joe> Michael, you make a valid point. But following your line of reasoning, a critic's (critbot's) view should be held as valid when making reasonable arguments as well about the quixtar business.
Joe,
"following your line of reasoning, a critic's (critbot's) view should be held as valid when making reasonable arguments as well about the quixtar business."
Agreed, however, IBO's should take a critic's point of view like a grain of salt if it is merely the opinion of a critic. Most of the time it is just an opinion geared to bait an IBO into a heated arguement and name calling.
"So that means I am unqualified to have any sort of opinion about marriage?"
Right. Exactly.
You are entitled to your thoughts and opinions Mikeybot. But handing out advice on a topic in which you have never participated is clearly unacceptable.
That varies from someone giving advice on a topic from which you participated and failed-
EXAMPLE:
Jerry Springer can give advice on his FAILED MARRIAGE(s)
Mikeybot can give advice on his FAILED business(es)
((You seem to like analogies, how did you like that??? Not too good for you...))
Personally, I like to hear from people who have succeed and know what they are talking about.
Which is why, Mikeybot, you & I don't see eye to eye!
I am curious to know Tony's and Mike's ages. I've already stated that I am thritysomething.
I think they are too.
I find it interesting that A/Q is attracting this demographic.
DF,
I figured you'd be the one to resort to bashing and name calling on this subjet. Actually I was waiting for rocket to chime in on the subject first, but you beat him to the punch. DF you are way too predictable. I almost think your posts are rather humerous. Can you come up with some better material? You are starting to sound like a broken record...
Also DF,
I thought you said you were done posting here. You didn't say that once, you said that one twice. I guess we can take your comments like a grain of salt.
Yeah Mikebot, you are one to talk.
Mr. Blog quitter one day and back the next.
Seriously dude, are you actually sticking up for Tony's line of reasoning? Find me that police academy then. If you can do that, I'll take YOU seriously.
"So that means I am unqualified to have any sort of opinion about marriage?"
I think so. That's why I said it.
I don't know that you are overly influenced by your upline. I would surmise they don't have the time of day for you since you're not on the system.
I'm pretty damn sure they couldn't give a rat's ass if you brought forth an idea to save the average IBO money on motivation.
If you're not on the system, they don't care about what you think. If you are on the system, they pretend to care about what you think. They really can't defend their position Mikey.
If they could, they'd be out here doing it, and we could all be spared the likes of your colleague, Tony.
Since you "worked with" your diamond in setting up a website which offers low cost motivation (allegedly) maybe you could convince him to justify his actions in an open forum?
Where is the name calling?
Why not responde to this Mikeybot:
You are entitled to your thoughts and opinions Mikeybot. But handing out advice on a topic in which you have never participated is clearly unacceptable.
That varies from someone giving advice on a topic from which you participated and failed-
EXAMPLE:
Jerry Springer can give advice on his FAILED MARRIAGE(s)
Mikeybot can give advice on his FAILED business(es)
((You seem to like analogies, how did you like that??? Not too good for you...))
Personally, I like to hear from people who have succeed and know what they are talking about.
Which is why, Mikeybot, you & I don't see eye to eye!
Mikey, I am gonna go out on a limb and suggest that you don't have the social skills to land a lady (or man?). And no, paying by the hour does not count as 'landing'.
Have fun living in your parent's basement with your leftover NASCAR memorabilia.
DF,
I had two failed kidneys too, are you going to add that to your line of insults? C'mon DF if your going to throw out the punches, add that too! Add the fact that I was going through 15 hours of dialysis every week while running two businesses. Add the fact that I had to sell my nascar business to help me pay for $1500 in anti rejection medications every month, which I still do out of pocket. Why don't you insult me about my medical condition too df? You are a class act low life and know nothing about business. I think you should take your own comments:
"You are entitled to your thoughts and opinions Mikeybot. But handing out advice on a topic in which you have never participated is clearly unacceptable."
Since you have never been in a business or in Quixtar, I highly suggest you shut your yap!
Mikebot> "Why don't you insult me about my medical condition too df?"
DF> Your medical condition has nothing to do with the topics at hand. That was a lame and desperate attack on my character by bringing in a topic that has NEVER even been discussed.
Your poor understanding of business in general (as it relates to the topics at hand) is what we are discussing. That's all I want to talk about, how about you?
Mikebot>"You are a class act low life and know nothing about business"
"Since you have never been in a business or in Quixtar, I highly suggest you shut your yap."
DF> Wow. That didn't even make sense. Nice work. I do know a lot about business because I am twice degreed in the skill and I have 12+ years of practice.
I have never been naive enough to sign-up, I ALWAYS saw it for what it REALLY is. But, I have seen others lose their friends/family/financial security over this. That's why I am here.
I have no other reason to go after you Mikeybot. As long as you are here putting out propaganda,I will be here to show the other side of the story.
DF,
what was the topic at hand?You were in the process of putting my businesses down purposefully and I thought I'd tell you what the circumstances were.
Also, what part of "shut your yap" did you not understand?
Careful Mikeybot, you aren't being *on-topic* nor are you *civil* with your "shut your yap" comments.
The NASCAR stuff isn't 'your business' anymore, because you ceased operation.
The A/Q isn't 'your business' because you have no control over the strategy/infrastructure.
Don't get mad at me because you made poor business decisions.
DF,
"Don't get mad at me because you made poor business decisions."
WTF is that all about? That has nothing to do with the topic. You are the one who is getting off topic DF. You care about being civil? HAHAHAHA!!!!!! That is the funniest thing you have said yet df. Like you are the one to talk about being civil on a message board... DF I am sorry to tell you but you have YET to be "civil" on this message board or any message board...
You also have yet to contribute anything worthwhile unless you consider witty banter and pathetic insults as "worthy". if that is the case DF, you are clearly not here to be civil. You gotta be joking!
Mikebot>"DF I am sorry to tell you but you have YET to be "civil" on this message board or any message board..."
You haven't seen me on any other message boards, so how can you comment?
And I have been civil, to those who ARE civil, on this board. Mikebot, this precludes you.
It seems as though your assumptions and uninformed conclusions have put you in some pretty bad spots Mikebot. NASCAR store is kaput, and your A/Q membership is losing money.
That's the topic at hand, business and business opinions. Bottom line = you aren't qualified to discuss business outside of a 'lessons learned' point-of-view because you have failed in your ventures.
I have been reading over a few of these blogs and for anyone that cares, they are all a load of crap. This business is like anything you do in life, if you dont do it all the way, you might as well not do it at all. No one is perfect, give people room to grow, put your bibles away and live a little. Enjoy life, have fun, make the best of it.
*** you have to read this, this guy is totally funny. Man, if you read anything it needs to be this one!!!!!*****
--------------------------------
600pv'r, you are totally right!
I can't stand it when people start quoting the bible and ethical clichés. I am a Christian and I am in Quixtar, but it’s not a bible study and that’s not why I or anyone signs up.
Can you say, "I want to be completely honest with myself, I want to create extra money on the side". Be a friend to yourself and admit what you are even trying to do.
I will grant that it needs to be ethical, like any business, and truly provide a good or a service that people need. Quixtar supports great products and you need to be working with leaders that have common sense so it does work and you will make money.
My point is, in the rapture Jesus will not take the Quixtar people first.
If you want to create extra money on the side then do the work and find some people that have accomplished something and simply use business common sense. You will make money.
...Oh, and don't even get me started on people that claim to not be involved in Quixtar but yet spend all their time on this blogs thinking and discussing Quixtar all day (positive or negative). This is for you; take a jog a day and/or get whatever plastic surgery you need to get some friends or a lover and GET A LIFE!
Is that why diamonds often make jokes when showing the plan?
Posted by: Joecool18 | October 13, 2005 2:15 AM