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September 1, 2005
Value of SA8 - Revisited
By QBlog in Quixtar
I recently posted about the value of Quixtar's SA8 Laundry Detergent. The post was based on test results from a 2004 issue of Consumer Reports. Tonight a site visitor sent me photos of "Laundry detergents — Washday winners" from the October 2005 issue of Consumer Reports. Here are the test results:
- Quixtar SA8 is now ranked 17th out of 29
- SA8 is much cheaper (by $.22) per load than the previous report
- SA8 has poorer rating (fair and good) than previously
- There are now 15 detergents more expensive than SA8
- It is one of 9 detergents to get an "excellent" in cleaning
- SA8 was not rated a "Best Buy" in Consumer Reports
Side Note
I should point out that this report (unlike the scans of the previous report) were sent to me as photographs snapped with a digital camera. Because of the poor, inconsistent quality I had to stitch together parts of several photos to provide something resembling a complete report. I assure you, this is an accurate representation of the data in the report even though it's been PhotoShopped to hell.
Comparison
Honestly, SA8 fares much better in this report than it did previously. It's still not perfect but its low-price helps offset some quality concerns, at least in my opinion. This leads me to wonder about what was tested.
In the first test I posted about, Consumer Reports rated SA8 with Bioquest. This more recent report rates SA8 with Bioquest HE (for High-Efficiency). Is there a difference? I can't find any products called "SA8 with Bioquest HE" at Quixtar.com. So, what accounts for the $.22 drop in price?
Does It Have Value?
I'm not sure why the two test are so different and it does concern me that there's that much variation between two similar tests. However, the real question that should be asked, of any product, is whether or not its price reflects its true value. Is SA8 a good value? This recent report suggest that maybe it is a good value, considering the price per load. Could it compete in the open market at that price? Maybe. Maybe not. There's only one way to find out.
Comments
This is speculation only: the 'HE' maybe either the European or Asian version of SA8. I don't know of plans to launch this in the U.S. (very well could be, I just don't know), but the product in these markets is for the front load washers, thus the 'HE' designation. These washers are beginning to have a market presence in the U.S., so I wouldn't doubt that there are plans to fill the need of this consumer (especially considering that these are the high end washers and the 'thing to have', so leaders are probably pushing for this 'HE' product -- like Tide has).
Who cares -- Kirkland @ Costco is still a better performing & less expensive detergent.
I doubt that anyone joined AmQuix because they are fired up about detergent, vitamins and/or energy drink.
They joined because they think they are going to get rich quick, and they overlook the overpriced, sub-standard product.
Then they have to justify their existance in the scam, rather than just admitting they got hoodwinked.
Note to the ambots:
Stop your losses and get out now. Many of you still have time and money to be used in more constructive effots.
The "HE" is "high efficiency" and refers to types of high end clothes washers that some people have. We have a front-loading Maytag Neptune for which the manufacturer reccomends HE detergent.
And I use Kirkland Signature which has an HE liquid and does a great job on our laundry.
SA-8, on the other hand, always left a musty smell to our laundry. I don't know why.
SeeSpray,
If it was a foreign market product, it would have the Amway name, not the Quixtar name. Good thought though. Does anyone have a consumer reports subscription to check this report?
xanadustc -
not to get too much into details, but there is no product in the U.S. 'branded' Quixtar. As the 'Amway' brand moved off of the product, it was replaced simply with the trademark brand (SA8, DishDrops, LOC, Nutrilite, iCook, etc...).
There is nothing on the product stating 'Quixtar', but the U.S. laws mandate the 'distributed by' or 'manufactured by' statement, which for those products that Alticor owns the brand for, these statements are followed by 'Access Business Group'.
For the most part, the product category brand has been used in for Europe as well for marketing reasons, while Japan/Korea/Asia continue to have 'Amway' on the product, but the trademark is now moved to the brand (not Amway).
This doesn't answer why a product that is not available in the U.S. is being reviewed by Consumer Reports, however, if this was an ethical submission to CP, I would assume that what would follow is that the 'HE' product is launching in the U.S. The reason the product was available to SUBMIT to CP, is that it does indeed exist in markets other than U.S./Canada currently.
SeeSpray,
I know that the ABG is the labeling. That is not what I am talking about. Look at the picture, it states "Quixtar SA8 with Bioquest HE" I am saying that if it was foreign market, it would say "Amway SA8 with Bioquest HE" (Or it would leave off Q/A in any case.
The whole amway laundry line is crap and over priced. I remember selling the chroline bleach to a family member. It turned her whites pink.
Gel-gyzme, SA8 never worked. I stopped retailing the product because my customers were always returning it.
The stuff is garbage. The best bet is grab a Costco card or go down to the local Walmart and keep the money that you save compared to buying the stuff from amway and put it in your bank account.
You talk about HE. I ahad a customer that used the liquid SA8. She said that she followed the directions and blew the drum out in her new washer. She later told me that the people at the corporatio refused to compensate her for the damage.
I made such a big deal about good amway's customer service was until I had deal with them.
The old syaing describes it best when having to deal with corp on matters of product or otherwise.
"Ever try to put toothpaste back into the tube>"
xanadustc -
You seem to be missing my point.
CP reviews product for U.S. consumption.
SA8 is the brand. ABG manufactures or outsources the product for both Alticor MLM entities of Quixtar and Amway.
Quixtar does NOT add the MLM brand to ANY product.
CP either did put the Quixtar name on the above description on their own to identify the product source, or Q* asked them to do so to identify the channel of distribution.
Either way, I am done with this topic so won't be coming back to it. It is irrelevant which way it happened, and I do know what I am talking about.
**Beating head against the wall**
I know that SeeSpray. I am very, very, very knowledgable about this thing. The BRAND is SA8, the distributor is Access Business Group, my point is the article said "Quixtar" and if it was a foreign market, it would say "Amway"
I love product post. That seems most relevant and makes IBO think.
What does SA8 Reviews means? It really doesn't mean any thing. Even if it comes # 1. Unless it has a demand. Market says other wise.
Great point, Imran!
It wouldn't matter if it was rated number one by CR, because it has no viable market outside of Amway/Quixtar distributors and they stop buying it when they quit.
Actually xan,
The manufacturer is ABG. Nothing will say Quixtar or amway on it, just will say either SA8 or whatever the product name is. It will not have Quixtar or Amway printed anywhere on the packaging.
Just FYI for all who read this report.
I snapped these shots from my recently received issue of CR I got it Tuesday 08/30/05 in the mail. And to answer the question posed by xanadustc - No, this is not a hoax. :-)
I subscribe to CR and have for some time. The truth is that I thought you all might appreciate some updated data, regardless of how it shows the SA8 product.
It just went so well with what QBlog posted, that I had to send it to him. Unfortunately, I do not have a scanner - that will be changed fairly soon - and my digital camera recently went belly-up so that is why the pictures were so bad. I only had my cheap Labtec web cam and I had to take these as I did so that the information was viewable. I do apologize.
Also, I have sent screen captures to QBlog of the SA8 product with an HE designator on the label. It also is found in the 'CHOICES' catalog that Quixtar sends out. I got mine the other day as well.
Either way, product comparisons aside, it is still up to the individual whether or not they find the product to be useful and worth their $$$. I do not build the business, nor am I active other than to purchase a few select products which we enjoy. i also have a few - count then on one hand - customers that come to us to get the items they still like. I give them my cost and we all are happy.
I for one will never turn down a customer's need for a product that they want. We even talk about their views on the whole Am/Quix xorp and they know the drill about the scam, but they want the item they want.
At any rate, hope that you now know it was not a hoax, or maybe you'll subscribe to CR and find out for yourself. It's a good value in my mind as it helped me find out about real good products and also helped me choose my newest microwave purchase.
Have a good day one and all.
Clifford Phillips
I just want to say that, having read qblog's article and all the comments: That was a really good blog. There was a follow-up to an earlier discussion and people then talked about what they read.
-r
PS:
That is to say, "I'm impressed." Good job. :)
CJP,
Thanks for clearing all that up. I'm surprised that is not on the Q website...puzzling..
X
So, who wants to meet me at Denny's for a "free" brunch? After a delicious 'Moons Over My Hammy', I'll sell you all pre-paid Costco memberships based on the merit of Kirkland detergent.....
just kidding..........!!!
QBlog
I think I can clear up the descrepency. You may want to add a clarification.
The previous CR article from 2004 listed your basic detergents and the H.E. or high efficient detergents for the washers requiring those type of detergents. If you click on the page and review you can see those listed down below.
In 2004, the Quixtar H.E. brand was not evaluated (maybe it didn't exsist). In 2005 it was.
So, we may need some further investigation to see what the price of the regular SA8 with bioquest price is this year, ,but I assume it is all relatively the same as last year.
The results are in- Jan. 07 issue of Consumer Reports ranks SA8With Bio Quest #1!!!( no other detergent scored “EXCELLENT” in all three categories). Of course, they mislead the price / load. They listed it as $.61/ load (it looks like the added the cost of membership to the total price- but they didn't add the membership cost to Costco-hmmm). It actually costs about $.23 / load retail and $.19 / load wholesale- and with my PV/BV points the cost is actually less then that.
As of the latest tests done by Consumer Reports(01/07) they have SA8 as the number one choice with an overall score of 99. The closest score to that is Gain HE with an 86. The price per load is extreme though coming in at 61 cents per wash compared to 28 cents with Gain
People can continue to buy what they want when they want it, but saving money aint never made nobody rich just ask a rich guy. oops... yoou dont any
Let explain to you how SA8 is far cheaper than Tide. For a 10 pound box of SA8 that treats 150 loads SA8 costs $34.10. Tide w/ bleach at Amazon.com costs $53.70 for two boxes, making it $26.85 per box. The Tide box says that it treats 190 loads. So one would think-hey why should I buy SA8, it is way cheaper to buy Tide.
If you stop here, it seems that SA8 is way more expensive. Stopping here suggests that SA8 costs $0.22 per load ($34.10/150 loads = 0.22) while Tide costs $0.14 per load ($26.85/190).
But there is more to it than just that. Proctor and Gamble, the makers of Tide, have done a very good job at marketing. If you look at the back of the Tide box, you have to see how they define a load. They define a load as filling the cup up to the first line. Well the first line on the cup is only half of the cup. So by saying that a load equals a fill up to the first line, they are saying that the Tide box gives you 190 HALF loads, which would equal 85 FULL loads.
SA8 defines a load that one load as cup filled to the top by the picture. So now if we look at the comparison again, SA8 costs $0.22 per load ($34.10/150 full loads = 0.22/load), while Tide costs $0.31 per load ($26.85/85 FULL LOADS = $0.31/load). Which is of better value now?
I invite you all to look at your laundry detergent to see how they define a load. Chances are that they define a load as a fill to the first line. Costco's Kirkland brand does the same. Now whos the cheapest? Definately SA8.
When you're ready to buy some SA8 and save money- buy your SA8 at
http://www.calcoonline.biz
For more info contact me at: calhayashi@gmail.com
I would check the comsumer reports site itself (I think you need a subscription). I checked the Q site as well, and I don't see and 'HE' SA8. I would be curious how the prices were determined. Do either reports detail the product? SA8 with Bioquest powder detergent has two sizes, the 6.6 lb box does 100 wash loads and is priced 22.75R / 18.85W and the 9.9 lb box does 150 washes and is priced 34.10R / 28.10W.
Looking at those prices, the cost of the detergent is the same in both cases: $0.23R / $0.19W
Could this be a hoax?
Posted by: xanadustc | September 1, 2005 1:35 PM