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September 17, 2005
Name Please
By QBlog in Miscellaneous
Can you name a successful Quixtar Diamond who achieved his "financial freedom" by using the prescribed motivational tools and training systems but who is not also profiting from the motivational tools and training systems?
Comments
But isn't selling the cds and books a business in itself? One which either operates at a profit or a loss? With employees, and a warehouse of some sort with storage and electronic equipment of some sort?
I'd rather them make a profit than a loss, because, like you said, the daimonds benefitted from them, and so would the people who will be there ten years from now.
I know a Double-Diamond and a Triple-Diamond who achieved their pins before signing onto the Yager training system in the early 1990s, but I don't think they utilized any actual system training to do it. From what I understand they did it the old-fashioned way, selling products and recruiting the way Amway originally designed it.
I doubt that counts.
PW
PW:
Are you lying? Who, pray tell, are these diamonds. Qb says 'name me one' you didn't name any. You just repeated the rumor/self-delusion/cult-of-money propaganda they want people to say.
-r
PS:
ANYONE WHO MADE ENOUGH W/ Amway/Quixtar to quit an otherwise profitable venture, like a career or their own (legitimate) business. By 'legitimate,' I mean 'traditional.'
-=-
Wesley,
The Diamonds PW refers to don't count. They didn't get to Diamond by listening to the tapes and utilizing the tools. I don't care what their names are.
There were some diamonds from texas who went Diamond through the old MCI program along with pay phones..From what I understand it was not just spike volume but lasted awhile.
I forgot their names..it was around 85-88
Many of the Diamonds build their business by using the "system" how do you think they learned how to do it? Inspiration from god? Their uplines taught them through the system. Of course they also profit from it if they are moving tapes. Why would you want to know if they weren't making any money, wouldn't the cons just say..."See the kingpins control the tools and the underling diamonds dont even get paid..." Most of the people that will make emerald/diamond this year learned thorugh a "system", and they will also make money from a "system"
So QualifiedPlat,
You can't provide a name? That's what I'm asking for.
Thanks,
Eric J
Chris, is that you? Of the dreamer fame? I thought you'd paddled off into the sunset.
QualifiedPlat, I bet you can't provide a name. And if you truly are a qualified platinum, you must be privy to information about tools profits, No?
I've heard of a couple who went diamond with some kind of phone plan, but I don't know the name. For all I know it's a myth.
There will probably be ZERO who achieved diamond with the system, and then did not profit from it.
I believe diamonds become accustomed to the lifestyle the tools revenue generates, and that income is what creates the appearance of success, not the $$ from the selling of Quixtar or their "partner" store products. It's a lie, their apparant success.
OK all you plugged in IBO's, let's see it.
Betcha can't name just one. And if you do, why would they not be shown as an example of success by other "leaders"?
This diamonds from Texas who made it on MCI and PayPhones....
I don't know about them having six lines that used payphones/MCI to qualify but I know Mark & Sandy Day used payphones to increase their volume and made Diamond. They are/were in downline Strehli. If this is the same one you were thinking of ex-dd, they did profit from the motivation. They were very young diamonds and spoke a lot.
All of you people who are saying that the Diamonds profit from the tool sales dont understand the business model or how it works and if you were a previous IBO then you are just a big whiner who does not know hard work! The tools are provided to make the IBO's more successfull and to leverage time by handing out CD's and have the CD do the teaching. Yes the Diamonds profit from the tools but that is not why they are for sale. Idiots!!!!!! Study the business model and really work it and then post whining comments.
Didn't Lennon and Suzanne Ledbetter also use the pay phones to build a Diamondship...supposedly the youngest Diamonds to ever qualify; very very early 20s?
I also believe they were not so entrenched in a system at the time, and were heavily endorsed by Amway in company publications.
Jose Rios: You're creeping me out. You sound just like one of these cult goons. If you saw my 'blog, you'd know that I've heard from your type before.
-r
PS:
Can it! It isn't that people are 'afraid of hard work' — hard work is EXACTLY what your gawddamned upline is telling you that you can fucking AVOID WITH THE SYSTEM. The point was to 'think about why.' 'Think about what you'll do with all that money and free time.' uh huh. Fuck you! I'm tired of you self-deluded morons.
PPS:
Qb, however, incidentally, rules and gets a D-ticket ride to himself all the way to fabulous-wealth heaven. No, he doesn't, I just made it up. But he didn't have to pay me to delude him.
-=-
Hey Jose.
I see you didn't mention one diamond that QBlog was looking for.
"The tools are provided to make the IBO's more successfull and to leverage time by handing out CD's and have the CD do the teaching."
What teaching? What value outside of Quixtar are these CD's? I just posted yesterday on my blog about how successful people can be without the "tools", as long as they believe in what they are doing.
So the people who think your business sucks either don't understand it, or are just whiners? There's no way we can be right?
The fact that diamonds profit from tools is EXACTLY why they are for sale. Tell your diamond that everyone you ever sponsor will be encouraged to buy their tools from ebay to save money, or at Brent's tool depot, as QBlog posted about a couple days ago.
See if their response to that can answer any doubts you have.
If you are smart enough to have any doubts.
r wesley,
just checked out ur blog,
what the hell does "Probabilistically" mean?
And you call yourself literate? Its like people using the word "whilst" in there posts. You might as well incorporate the word ain't into your posts as well. Just don't call yourself literate. Thank you for giving me some humor this AM.
Dave
I saw Ledbetters speak in late 80's and I didn't hear them say a word about payphones. My upline (a Triple Diamond) was their upline and brought them in to speak. I remember my Triple Diamond saying they had 10 legs doing at least 5000 pv. If they were doing payphones I guess maybe they didn't want everyone else to know you had to sell, that they were just out showing the plan and it was working.I must have listened to the Ledbetters tape over a 100 times and he did push the system.
probabilistic. prob·a·bi·lis·tic Pronunciation: "prä-b&-b&-'lis-tik adjective 1 : of or relating to probabilism 2 : of, relating to, or based on probability prob·a·bi·lis·ti·cal·ly adverb
whilst Pronunciation: 'hwI(&)lst, 'wI(&)lst conjunction
Etymology: Middle English whilest, alteration of whiles
chiefly British : WHILE
People who have been convinced they can get something for nothing come to depend on others to do their work. How hard do YOU work so your cult leader can live the life that becomes your illusion?
I don't know whether or not Andy Andrews profited from the system, but I remember reading somewhere that he resigned his diamondship when the corporation wouldn't include the system as part of the legitimate pv/bv.
I believe he used the system to go diamond, since I once heard one of his tapes talking about how he learned about the business by speaking at a function (a Family Reunion, if memory serves).
Interestingly, Andy's tapes were no longer included as "approved" tapes in our system after his resignation. Of course I didn't know WHY we weren't hearing his tapes anymore at the time. I only surmised this after coming out of the cult.
Christy,
Andy Andrews didn't resign because Amway wouldn't include pv/bv on the tapes. He resigned because he and eighteen other diamonds wanted a bigger cut on the tapes and formed Team in Focus. Things were great until TIF came up with some sort of tool box and a binary compensation plan to make money on the tools, and Quixtar booted them. Not only were they heavily involved in making profits from the tapes, you would probably be interested to know that when TIF became a product company rather than a training company, they had to sell tools at "cost". Suddenly everyone that couldn't be successful on less than two tapes a week, could be successful on one tape per month...
George,
TIF did not want a bigger cut on the tools. From a psychological standpoint, they wanted to make tools an optional purchase, not something the average IBO felt guilt-tripped into (that's why I said Psychologically optional). They knew that 98% of all IBO's knew nothing about the profit to be gained from the tool business and they told their people about that, so that they were aware of WHY the diamonds attempted to guilt-trip them into buying tools.
OK bystander,
Ya got me on a technicality with the definitions,lmao. Thanks for clarifying.
As for answer to your question, I only work for myself and my downline. Also I don't believe you can get anything for nothing. Everything comes with a price and hard work.
"TIF did not want a bigger cut on the tools. From a psychological standpoint, they wanted to make tools an optional purchase, not something the average IBO felt guilt-tripped into"
Sorry Augustus, that doesn't fly. When TIF announced it's binary plan for the tool business, the only way you could participate was to be on two tapes a week and a book a month, and attend all of the functions. The prices of the tapes and books never dropped while they were associated with Quixtar. They just cut Yager, Gooch, Childers, Dunn, Stewart and Foley out of their cut. I think if you will listen to the tapes produced in the first year of TIF, they still say the only way to be successfull is to listen to tapes, read books and go to the functions. That didn't change until they started selling tapes for $4 instead of $6, which was supposed to be "cost"
Name one Quixtar Diamond that started from scratch in 1999 or later - I'm still looking for 1. My old upline (i'm not longer in quixtar) could not name me one eitehr!
Name me one college professor who became successful by going to college and reading books, but now is not profitting from the college educational system.
Gee can't do it can you? How bout this one..
Name me one successful Tae Kwon Do instructor who learned from a school and training system, who is not now profitting from that school and system.
What are you suggesting Eric, that we shut down all colleges and Martial Art schools??
Are you implying there is something wrong with utilizing a training and support system and then profitting from that system when you've earned a certain level of success. Is that the implication Eric? Is that wrong, should it be shut down? Well if it is, then you're saying "Yes" to shutting down colleges, TKD classes, and even drivers ed. schools!
Eric what a bain attempt to discredit Quixtar training systems! Is that really you or is that that NQB? BTW, did you ban r.wesley for his vulgarity and use of the f-word??
Oh and rocket you said> What teaching? What value outside of Quixtar are these CD's?
T> Thats like saying "what value does your Quantum Physics book have outside of your Quantum Physics class?!" Think about it rocket, thats the same dam thing!
Who cares if the books or CD's have no value outside of Quixtar - as long as they have some value within the business. But in my opinion some of the CD's (and 99% of the books) DO have value outside of the business also! The CD's that talk about people skills, or work ethic (like Doug Weir's 'Take It to the Front') do have value outside the business.
Oh and Geoff, Dave Dussalt started his business in 2000, he and his wife Kristen we're recognized Diamond at FED 2005.
C'mon, Tony, your question is "Name a college professor or martial arts instructor who works for free". Of course there are none.
The issue is that college and martial arts courses are useful for reasons other than getting a job teaching other people the same thing. I've taken both, and college classes got me into my current career, while kenpo classes have given me at least a rudimentary understanding of self-defense.
The question about the tools system is whether it fulfills its stated function, namely to help people build a successful and profitable Quixtar business. From the transcripts I've seen on the Standing Order Tape blog, a lot of the BWW tapes seem to be big pins bragging about their wealth and insulting anyone poorer than them, practically parodies of Alec Baldwin's speech in "Glengarry Glen Ross".
The question about income from tools is important because the accusation is that the vast majority of big pins' money in these organizations comes from the motivational business, not the Quixtar retailing. If that's the case, it would make a lot of these lines effectively pyramid schemes.
Tony> When I hit 1000pv my check was over $200. My sponsor is a Gold making over $2500. I've seen Quixtar checks from my upine Diamond (no BWW tool money) for over $120,000 in 1 month! (not November) - so don't tell me this doesn't work! The truth of the matter is - it didn't work for you! Now 'king - it Was working for you! Why your sponsor shot you and himself in the foot, I have no idea, but I know I wouldn't have just walked away.
I'd really like to hear your response to the fact that no one is bashing my sponsor's sponsor who is taking time off. Why is that? Could some LOS' actually be ethical, caring and genuinley good people?? To imply that ALL teams are greedy and deceitful cause yours was, is pure ignorance!
Posted by: Tony at June 1, 2005 05:10 PM
Joecool> Tony, welcome back to the blog.
This message you posted was back in June but yet more recntly you said you were breaking even and/or losing a little. So how do you become successful if you break even and teach others to do the same. And why aren't you profitable if you hit 1000 PV?
The question presented in this Blog post is not whether the tools have value outside of the business. The question at hand is whether the tools have value IN the business.
Joe, why do you keep posting that? I've already answered you. I've stated that most months I break even, some months I make a little, some I might lose a little. Expense can be $100-200 a month.
And just cause someone is breaking even doesn't mean they can't teach others to be successful. There are Diamonds, who have sponsors that are only platinum or below, or that have even quit. It didn't stop Them from going Diamond!
I have a good knowledge of Tae Kwon Do, I could coach someone how to be an Olympic champion without being an Olympic champion myself! Ever seen 'Miracle'?
And vm, no actually he question presented in this post was are there any Diamonds who went Diamond using the system, and then later didn't make money in that system.
And for your information, rocket DID pose the question what value do the tools have outside the business. If 'the question at hand' is do they have value IN the business, then the answer is definitely Yes!!
Tony> Joe, why do you keep posting that? I've already answered you. I've stated that most months I break even, some months I make a little, some I might lose a little. Expense can be $100-200 a month.
And just cause someone is breaking even doesn't mean they can't teach others to be successful. There are Diamonds, who have sponsors that are only platinum or below, or that have even quit. It didn't stop Them from going Diamond!
Tony,
I posted it because the kingpins always teach that you should always learn from someone who has a bigger business. That's how they teach about credibility on their tapes. If that's not the case, then a direct who sponsored a diamond should be cutting tapes and cd's as well.
My point is that if you are selling "buy from yourself and teach others to do the same", then the fact remains that if you are making a little or losing a little and teaching others to do the same, do you consider that to be successful, and if the system works, why have you gone backwards?
Jose Rios> All of you people who are saying that the Diamonds profit from the tool sales dont understand the business model or how it works and if you were a previous IBO then you are just a big whiner who does not know hard work! The tools are provided to make the IBO's more successfull and to leverage time by handing out CD's and have the CD do the teaching. Yes the Diamonds profit from the tools but that is not why they are for sale. Idiots!!!!!! Study the business model and really work it and then post whining comments.
Joe> But Jose, how come there are no quixtar diamonds if the teaching works?
The only new diamonds were those who started while the business was still called Amway.
Joe most likely when someone goes Platinum and there upline is not a platinum, the platinum is going to be mentored by the next biggest upline. They say to counsel with your 'growing' upline, not necessarily the one who sponsored you. I've got downline who started nearly the sametime I did that are mentored by my sponsor too.
I had a spikein pv my 3rd month due to Christmas volume. It took time for my business to catch up to that. The only reason i'm not further is because I haven't been consistent. It easier to sit home some nights, its easier sometimes to miss a meeting for this or that. But I at least realize that and don't blame the business or my sponsor. Sometimes you go backwards, sometimes people quit. Larry Winters went Silver and then fell back, went silver, and fell back again! But finally went gold, and platinum, and has never fallen back any pin level since!
Joe> But Jose, how come there are no quixtar diamonds if the teaching works?
T> I've already said this too! Dave and Kristen Dussalt are Qx-only Diamonds! Got in right before FED 2000, and at FED 2005 were recognized as new Diamonds. Next year Greg and Jacque Francis will be Qx-only Diamonds in less than 5 years too!
Big woop if it takes longer, I know someone who after 5-6 years of college finally had a 2 year nursing degree!
Tony> I've already said this too! Dave and Kristen Dussalt are Qx-only Diamonds! Got in right before FED 2000, and at FED 2005 were recognized as new Diamonds. Next year Greg and Jacque Francis will be Qx-only Diamonds in less than 5 years too!
Big woop if it takes longer, I know someone who after 5-6 years of college finally had a 2 year nursing degree!
Joe> So having 1 diamond after 6 years of existence despite thousands of people working the plan is a good indicator of success?
And yes, if it took 7 years, it might still be worth it, but in college, it's 4-5 years to get a degree and the vast majority of those who graduate do so in 4-5 years. And college doesn't have a 95% failure rate.
Quixtar is just not a good opportunity in my humble opinion.
Let’s assume IBO 1 is 4000 PV. He sponsored 8 people personally, and each of the 8 people sponsored 5. This would be a pretty solid business. Let’s assume they all do 100 PV and they each spend about $200 a month in business expenses (CORE, gas money, etc.)
So IBO 1’s groups moves 4100 PV. He basically has 8 – 600 PV legs.
So let’s say 4100 PV = 10,000 BV. That means IBO 1 gets a bonus check for about $1800. He then in turn pays out about (600 PV = 1500 BV) 6% = $90. 8 legs at $90 = $720.
So IBO 1 keeps $1080 and each of his 8 legs get $90.
They each spend $200 a month to be CORE, and for other business expenses. So that’s 41 x 200. 41 x 200 = $8200.
So the group spends $8200 to run the business and takes in $1800 in bonuses. That’s a loss of $6400 each month.
Let’s say that each IBO make $50 retail profit (a generous assumption). That’s an additional $2050 income so now the group spends $8200 in operational expenses and takes in $3850. Now the monthly loss is $4350.
Tony says this is “paying dues�. You can add new IBO’s to the mix but the bottom line is that unless retail is the source of all income, EVERY group in any LOS is going to have a net loss each and every month.
That’s why Quixtar Does Not Work!
Wrong moron, you're math does not work! 8 legs at 600pv is 4800pv, plus your 100 makes you 4900pv!! (100pv = $250bv) so your BV is 12250! Not 10,000!
Also, Standing order CD (IF YOU CHOOSE TO BUY IT) costs $7.50/wk, that not even $40/month. Then 'Kate is $31 a month (if you choose to be on 'Kate. Then a function every 3 months is about $30 month. that's $100 total, so far, then you're opens each week put you at $112/month to be 'Core'.
Run the #'s with those figures, and why is you scenario always changing: 10 with 1, 8 with 5, how bout 6-4-2. Keep in mind, most brand new people Aren't On 'Kate, and SOT, so they don't HAVE expenses of $112/month!! I wasn't on SOT for 8 months!! Factor That in too!
Tony> Wrong moron, you're math does not work! 8 legs at 600pv is 4800pv, plus your 100 makes you 4900pv!! (100pv = $250bv) so your BV is 12250! Not 10,000!
Also, Standing order CD (IF YOU CHOOSE TO BUY IT) costs $7.50/wk, that not even $40/month. Then 'Kate is $31 a month (if you choose to be on 'Kate. Then a function every 3 months is about $30 month. that's $100 total, so far, then you're opens each week put you at $112/month to be 'Core'.
Run the #'s with those figures, and why is you scenario always changing: 10 with 1, 8 with 5, how bout 6-4-2. Keep in mind, most brand new people Aren't On 'Kate, and SOT, so they don't HAVE expenses of $112/month!! I wasn't on SOT for 8 months!! Factor That in too!
Joe> My bad on the math, let me fix it:
Let’s assume IBO 1 is 4000 PV. He sponsored 8 people personally, and each of the 8 people sponsored 5. This would be a pretty solid business. Let’s assume they all do 100 PV and they each spend about $200 a month in business expenses (CORE, gas money, etc.)
So IBO 1’s groups moves 4900 PV. He basically has 8 – 600 PV legs.
So let’s say 4900 PV = 12,250 BV. That means IBO 1 gets a bonus check for about $2205. He then in turn pays out about (600 PV = 1500 BV) 6% = $90. 8 legs at $90 = $720. So IBO 1 keeps $1485 and each of his 8 legs get $90. They each spend about $200 a month to be CORE, and for other business expenses. So that’s 49 x 200. 49 x 200 = $9800. So the group spends $9800 to run the business and takes in $1800 in bonuses. That’s a loss of $7595 each month.
Let’s say that each IBO makes $50 retail profit (a generous assumption). That’s an additional $2450 in income so now the group spends $9800 in operational expenses and takes in $4655. Now the monthly loss is $5145.
Ok Tony, I adjusted the math to 4900 PV and 12,250 BV, and you'll see that the LOSSES ARE EVEN GREATER than my previous example. And $200 a month average for being CORE is reasonable if you factor in major functions, nuts and bolts, a few extra tapes here and there.
As you add people, the losses mount even though several people may be advancing.
Oh and Tony, if you're going to start name calling, I can do it too, but I prefer to debate the issues instead of name calling, but if that's how you react, I can see why some of the "critbots" on here take issue with it.
My example shows that quixtar DOES NOT WORK for the majority.
Tony, if you had each IBO spend $112 in tools, the group would still be losing $833 a month. And that's if they actually made $50 profit from retailing (a generous but unlikely scenario). If the group bought from themselves and taught others to copy, and there was no retail, then the group would lose $3283 per month even though the group generates 4900 PV/12250 BV.
Tony, here's another one for you. A direct group. And $200 a month for tools and gas, etc is a reasonable average monthly expense, especially if you factor in gas, which is over $3 a gallon these days:
Let’s assume IBO 1 is 7500 PV. He sponsored 10 people personally, and each of the 10 people sponsored 9 people. This would be a pretty solid business. Let’s assume they all do 100 PV and they each spend about $200 a month in business expenses (CORE, gas money, etc.)
So IBO 1’s groups moves 7500 PV. He basically has 10 – 750 PV legs.
So let’s say 7500 PV = (about) 18750 BV. That means IBO 1 gets a bonus check for about $4687. He then in turn pays out about (750 PV = 1875 BV) 6% = $112.50. 10 legs at $112.50 = $1125.
So IBO 1 keeps $3562 and each of his 10 legs get $112.50.
They each spend about $200 a month to be CORE, and for other business expenses. So that’s 76 x 200 = $15,200 a month
So the group spends $15,200 to run the business and takes in $4687 in bonuses. That’s a loss of $10,513 each month.
Let’s say that each IBO make $50 retail profit (a generous assumption). That’s an additional $3800 income so now the group spends $15,200 in operational expenses and takes in $4687. Now the monthly loss is $6713. That means in a year, the group would lose $80,556.
Of course the direct distributor gets (3562 x 12) $42,744 plus the $10,000 (one time) bonus. The Direct made $52, 744 (not counting expenses), but his 75 downline all lost about $1074 for the year.
As you add more downline, a few more people may profit, but the group as a whole loses more and more money.
Quixtar does not work for the vast majority! (IMHO).
My bad on the math again, it's 10 groups of 750 PV, not 10 who sponsored 9, or that would be 9000 PV. The total group consists of IBO #1 and 75 downline.
Joe> My bad on the math again...
T> Yea, that pretty much sums it up. Your scenario s#cks all around, cause you keep factoring in $200 for ALL IBO's. Guess what bud, brand new 100PVer's aren't on 'Kate, SOT, driving miles, etc. I hit 1000pv and wasn't on SOT, BOM, or 'Kate! So your numbers are plain Wrong!
Also Joe, if you tell a friend of yours that you just got a raise and he asks "how much you making now?" How much do you tell him? Let's say it's $45,000, do you sutract taxes out of that? Do you subtract the gas money it takes you to drive back and forth to work? Just wondering, since you like to subtract every little expense with your Quixtar scenarios, I just wonder if you subtract gas money and other related expenses, when you figure your job salary... so I guess you're not making as much as you thought you were now.
Tony,
How about the gas money to STP? How about the cost of child care? How about the times at coffee during the counseling sessions? How about the trips to the 'greesy spoon'?
Next, we all KNOW that the 'tools' are optional, but the facts are that they are used, and used in abundance because as your wonderful upline Larry says "If you are not using the system, I will give my time to others. If Amway doesn't like that, I don't care!" (Winters, Seminar Alexandria VA, V120)
I used the tools extensively because I knew that I did not know how to operate a business and I was in submission to my upline. My first month expenses? $261.80. Yes, there was a function there, my next month was $374.78. Huh? Next month $258.87.....average for year: $272.62. Was I typical? I think that I was.
The facts are out Tony. Even if you DON'T factor in tools, it costs more money to buy the inflated products month after month to go 100 PV or beyond. And don't give me your whopping three one-time buys that were better a price; Compare the prices of the common consumables because THAT is the core of Quixtar.
As you rise up and start to MAKE MONEY, do an analysis of all the people in your group (This is something that I know you can do with your LOS tool on quixtar website.), you will find that your total leg is at a net operating loss.
Here is the point, if you look only at your own paycheck, you are being selfish for not considering the situation of the others that your mind has simply justified are not there yet.
I repeat, I pray for you, Tony
X
What Tony fails or acknowledge is even when I factored in his estimate of tools costing $112 a month, the group STILL LOST MONEY! And Tony, I understand that some people don't get on the teaching system but you must admit that there are some who certainly spend much more than $112 a month in tools. Also, and Xanac pointed out, these estimated costs are for single and does not factor in the added cost if you are a couple (more function tickets) and child care and gas.
The estimate of $112 a month for a CORE IBO is very conservative. You can hide the facts Tony, the bigger the group, the bigger the losses are. Even though I made a math error, I did go back and fix it and it shows that 75 CORE IBO's as a group, loses money. I even generously allowed $50 retail profit for each IBO and the group lost money. And you know that most don't retail enough to generate that kind of income.
And by the way Tony, gas is over $3 a gallon so a CORE IBO who drives to functions and to show the plan, etc, could easily spend over $100 a month in gas alone.
Why don't you draw up a group and show how they make money?
Tony? You still there?
Oh I get it now. When Tony is faced with hard facts and cannot come up with a good answer, he will call you some derogatory name. Did I peg that right Tony? I drew up a hypothetical group and showed they lost money. Your response was to call me
a moron, or course you failed to show actual proof to show that I was wrong. I did make a math error but I fixed it and it still showed that quixtar does not work. I guess in a debate, I would have scored the winning points.
X> How about the gas money to STP?
T> Did you even read any of Joe's posts? He was subtracting gas and expenses most new IBOs don't have. Thats why I asked HIM if he substracted gas when figuring His salary!
Cost of child care? Yea, I don't most people subtract when figuring their job salaries also. Oh, did you mean me? Well I don't have kids yet, but I'll probably let my wife watch the kids when I'm out, and if its a situation where I need her there too, I know my parents would love to watch my kids. They even do it for my aunts and uncles sometimes (no, they're not IBO's)
X, didn't you say you bought alot of tools. We don't suggest buying 5 tapes a week, or racking up debt to buy tools. I buy 1 CD a week! My monthly expenses are around $112. As the plan shows, you could just sponsor 6, all do 100pv and your pv check is a little more than that! What about the ones at 100, well as I've stated 5 times now, new people don't have those expenses! I wasn't on SOT for 8 months! Wasn't on 'Kate for at least 3or4 months!
And there's more than just lawnmowers and George Foreman grills that we have cheaper than other stores! I pay $1.70/can for XS which is cheaper than Redbull where I shop, not to mention redbull tastes like bull piss, and XS tastes awesome, and also comes in 8 flavors! And also pays ME a bonus back! And I can retail it to bars, gyms, and individuals, which I do!
I also pay about $1.83 for protein bars, which is about the same or cheaper than many other bars. I've posted links before than showed protein bars at $2-$3 a piece! If you workout or use protein products you know that good protein products are not cheap. Same with quality, pharmaceutical grade organic vitamins.
I don't buy our shaving cream, its a bit expensive, (and I've always shaved in the shower with soap) - but I can easily do 100pv with comp. priced stuff like kahvecinno, XS, the bars, etc.
And for stuff like gyms shoes, jeans, cologne, shirt/ties, dvd players, etc. I buy thru me too, cause I can get it for the same price or cheaper, plus I get a bonus back.
I'm not only looking at my own paycheck, I care alot about helping my team develop and move on too. I want my team to make more than me!
I've sponsored people in depth that I could've put personal to me, just to help someone on my team! I've given phone #'s to crossline friends of people I've contacted who knew them, and I've loaned XS materials to crossline buddies who were doing sampling booths! So don't tell ME, I'm being selfish! You need to pray for yourself, not me. I only want people that know me and care about me praying for me.
Joe, I'll deal with you later
Tony, if someone asked me what my total net income from my job was, then I would have to factor in the cost of gas to get to and from my job. Gas is factored in as a business expense because IBO's are able to claim mileage as a business deduction.
I agree with you about the XS, it does taste better than red bull and some of the other products are good. However, as a whole, most of the catalog stuff is overpriced (in my opinion).
I know you said you only spend about $100 to $112 a month ig tools, but I can guarantee you that many LOS have their IBO's spending much more than that. When I was in the business (because I live in Hawaii) the average cost per month just for major functions was over $300, My average cost for tapes and books each month was in the neighborhood of $200 and that did not include local functions and amvox.
Also Tony, you admitted that you have not done as much as you could in the business lately. A really hard core IBO would spend more than $112 a month on tools, again, in my opinion.
DIRECT QUESTIONS FOR TONY
How many people are in your group?
What were their PV/BV last month?
How much did they spend to get that PV?
What was their income from all business related sources?
If you apply the standard Student T test, do any of those people / incomes need to be thrown out?
What is the standard deviations for the income levels?
Collect ALL these facts together and you will see that your group operates at a net loss. Prove me wrong.
Further, I don't care that YOU buy 1 tape a week. I care what the BWW system teaches. "Kanti Gala calls the standing order tape program minimum wage. You need to be buying three or more tapes in the Gala leg to be considered successful" - Quoted from many of the tapes, sorry I don't have an exact one there. I heard Kanti say that live a few years back at a Spring Leadership. I don't care if you are not in his team, the point is that BWW is promoting that view of his. The BWW system also teaches as a whole that tool flow = group growth. You listen to the tapes, are you going to deny that you heard that?
T>I wasn't on SOT for 8 months! Wasn't on 'Kate for at least 3or4 months!
X>I guess I was more core than you; I did what my upline suggested from day one. I guess you were smarter and waited a few months, but you are there now, arn't you? Is it working yet? I know that they tell you not to check results for 2 years, but many of us (myself included) believes that is to keep you pumping the tool pump for a few years....now THAT is residual income!
T>I pay $1.70/can for XS which is cheaper than Redbull where I shop
X>No you don't, you pay $1.70 + tax + shipping (and if you live in one of the special regualted states, + extra fee).
T>I also pay about $1.83 for protein bars, which is about the same or cheaper than many other bars. I've posted links before than showed protein bars at $2-$3 a piece!
X>and I recall I posted more links showing more protein bars at $1.50 a piece. Not to say you did it intentially, but it appeared that you placed higher priced ones. DOn't defer to quality, most of the people I sold those to thought they tasted like card-board.
T>I'm not only looking at my own paycheck, I care alot about helping my team develop and move on too. I want my team to make more than me!
X>And in the process of this, there will ALWAYS be a NET LOSS in your business. Prove me wrong!
T>I've sponsored people in depth that I could've put personal to me, just to help someone on my team! I've given phone #'s to crossline friends of people I've contacted who knew them, and I've loaned XS materials to crossline buddies who were doing sampling booths! So don't tell ME, I'm being selfish!
X>And if you are justifying that this business works by looking at your paycheck and not the total sum of all paychecks vs costs of your team, you are still deluded, whether you are selfish or not.
T>You need to pray for yourself, not me. I only want people that know me and care about me praying for me.
X>Why do I need to pray for myself? So that I see the light of the truth of this business? I've been on both sides of the fence, Tony, this side is much greener. I do know you through your posts (though not to a great degree), and believe it or not, I do care for you, otherwise I would be passing insults like some other people have done, or else I would simply not take the time to write all this.
X
Here's a post from January 05 giving a rundown on estimated cost of tools in a month:
How much would you estimate an average CORE IBO in WWDB spends per month on tools?
CORE entails 9 steps, so I took those into account below in my addtion.
For a starting point I added up Kate, tapes, monthly seminar, one book, one extra meeting and some kind of internet service (which I priced at $20). This would cover a couple, since both would theoretically listen to the same tapes & read the same book. Mind you, this is the MINIMUM.
$160.00 per month - Monthly starting point
x12 months
$1920 year
For yearly items, I added 1 yr membership of $12 to WWDB website, approximately $995 flat fees (not including travel, food, lodging expenses) for the four major functions, and 3 additional seminars, like Attitude, Second Look totaling $42, then added Nutrilite & Artistry Seminars totaling $80. So we come up with additional YEARLY expense of about $1150 - give or take a few. Again, this is for a couple.
Add them together and a CORE couple can expect to spend, at a minimum:
$1920 + 1150 = $3070
For the BASIC CORE couple. Again, this does not include ANY of the expense items, and you have not spent ONE DIME on products yet.
But wait - there's more!!! You also are out showing the plan 2-3x week at a MINIMUM, so you need to have INFO kits to leave with the prospects!! To purchase the case and all the recommended contents, you are talking approximately $80 each. And a SERIOUS business builder can't have just one, because you ALWAYS want to leave a new prospect with additional information and products to try!!! It was recommended to us that we purchase 3, which was the standard in our group. Add $240 for the first year (I won't even add in the extra costs to REFILL or REPLACE the kits). And, if you're REALLY SERIOUS (and you act NOW!), you really need to buy the True North Tape (or CD) set when you're new to "Get Started Right!" This set consists of 17 tapes, at the low low cost of $120. Again, I won't add the taxes, and of course, the standard 4% handling fee for any order!!!
So if you're REALLY SERIOUS, in addition to the costs above, for the first year in business, you have costs totaling:
$3070 + 360 = $3430 /12 =
MONTHLY MINIMUM COST: Approx $285
I could go on. Because there were additional things that are recommended, and if you truly are 'CORE', as they say, you are spending additional money on additional tools on the "advice and counsel" of your valuable upline and mentor, under the guise of "If I was just starting and wanted to be successful - this is what I would do if I were you...." Another part of core is having a 300PV personal circle (personal use and retail), and if you don't have any customers, or you failed to reach that goal with customers, you should buy whatever you need to hit your 300PV. As mentioned in an earlier post, that's typically somewhere in the neighborhood of $750 on core products. But these aren't tools, mind you, but they are an influencing factor in the monthly spending that is recommended.
I am open to discussing this business. I will provide truthful answers based on my experiences, so you may ask whatever you want. If there is a question I do not want to answer, I will just tell you. Hope that helps.
Posted by: Disenchanted IBO at January 28, 2005 12:04 PM
Tony> I pay $1.70/can for XS which is cheaper than Redbull where I shop, not to mention redbull tastes like bull piss
DI> I call attention to the fact that Tony must have tasted bull piss in order to make that comparison.
Note the dates at the bottom:
You know how I'm gonna stick it to you guys. I'm gonna go home and make a bunch of calls and show a bunch of plans, and I'm gonna sponsor a guy, who sponsors a guy, who sponsors a couple, thats gonna sponsor your brother or sister!! And then they're gonna sponsor half your family, 5 are gonna go Platinum or above, and you'll get to be the broke negative -in law, that was too skeptical to take a look at this!!
Ever seen Caddyshack - "the world needs ditch diggers too!"
Posted by: Tony at June 29, 2005 07:46 PM
I've been in LESS than TWO years, and I have hit 1000pv, MORE than once!! Basically I've treated it like a hobby for over a year and still managed to sponsor 16 people and hit 1000pv. I've taken it serious but not to the level of commitment many people around me have. Which is about to change.
Posted by: Tony at September 9, 2005 03:14 PM
Tony, you criticized me for a math error. Are you ever going to respond to this one?
Tony> Oh, and I never said the average Diamond makes $1million. I've said Repeatedly like the plan shows - the average Diamond makes $150,000/year! No tools, just Qx $!
The average EDC and above Does make close to $1mil a year though.
My upline Diamond said he makes about $50,000 a month average!
Anything else?
Joecool> So an average diamond (6 directs) makes about $150K but an average EDC (9 directs) makes close to a million. Tony, you care to explain the math on that? It really doesn't make any sense. How can adding 3 more direct legs (average EDC) result in almost $850,000 more in income?
"Probabilistically"
Michael— Probabilistically is a word you moron. And, for that matter, so is ain't. Words don't exist in a book somewhere, language changes, words are created all the time. Old words go into disuse and people forget them. "Franklin," for example, used to mean, 'wealthy land owner.' Geez, dude. Don't criticize my use of language. You're MATH ILLITERATE if you don't know that probable — with probability, that is, 'it could happen,' can be formed into a gerund: Probabilistically. The worst thing I'm guilty of is a typo.
-r
PS:
Attacking me on Qb's blog is really stupid, too. Why not attack me at my OWN blog. I have comments turned on (mostly, unless there is a continuity issue, or if the thing to be commented on isn't my own original stuff — that is, OTHER PEOPLE's EMAILS). You're most likely, that is, PROBABILISTICALLY, one of those morons who can't tell the difference between "ITS" and "IT'S," and you probably don't know how to spell RESUMé, or how to use unicode, so you don't even use accent marks!
loser.
-=-
Bystander:
Thank you. I didn't see you defending me and ENGLISH before I posted. Bravo. As usual, someone else does it better and with less angry spitle!
-r
PS:
I'm SOOOO annoyed by these people who treat certain books like they're the universal truth and cannot be changed. This goes for Dictionaries, *coughs* atlases (geez, Canada has changed in the past 5 years and God only knows what's going on with Zaire, no, I mean 'The Democratic Republic of the Congo"), and double for the Bible. I think these people are LAZY thinkers. They don't want to think for themselves, so they rely on rules and regulations. The only problem with that is that EVERYONE ELSE is fucking HUMAN — including other 'don't go breakin' my rules' people, including the rule person him/herself. ZERO TOLERANCE. *sighs* oh well, as my friend 'Zombie slayer' would say, "we just won't invite them to the compound when the zombies come." (I'm sure he means it metaphorically…)
-=-
Tony—
Qb can ban me for my vulgarity.
-r
PS:
But before he does, I want ya'all to know a little something.
I use Firefox browser (stop shaking your heads, this is relavent) and it allows me to start it with as many tabs opening as many 'home' pages as I like. Qb is one of those VERY preferred bookmarks. As a creditable (yes, CREDIT-ABLE) 'blog, I believe and I believe he believes that he has to leave the channels of communication open and perhaps he even has some kind of idealized freedom of speech thing goin' on inside his moral core. Or not, maybe he'll ban me and delete all my f'ing comments. I'd probably ban me, but only if I thought I was TRULY neutral about a subject and I AM NOT! The only subjects I am neutral about are the ones I've never heard of. For instance, five minutes ago, I had never heard of any voting by Vorgons on the Sun concerning linear curvivity, the "Straight" party and the "Rounded" party. Back then (five minutes ago), I had no opinion. Now that I have heard of it (because I just made it up) I have DEFINATELY come to a conclusion and I think that I am FOR linear curvivity as it is SO ELOQUENTLY expressed by the 'Rounded' Party. Of course, since I didn't go 'Straight,' you're all free to think I'm fucking gay. But if you call me that on my 'blog, I'll fucking ban you. Only because the implication is that there is something sinister and 'wrong' with being gay, or else there wouldn't be the accusation! Some people are gay and I hope that if I were gay I wouldn't have to put up with pricks telling me how broken I am. By the way, it's all gone to HELL since they let those Vorgons get the vote!
Also Tony—
It is a freakin' cult you thick-headed mole!
-=-
Joecool18—
I can name call too.
-r
PS:
:)
-=-
I'm a programmer and a computer consultant, if I had that much money to lose, JoeCool18 and xanadustc (around $200/month), I'd throw it all into advertising. And I'd EASILY make it all back But these guys, basically middlemen themselves think they can outsmart Barnes & Noble by selling their products for them!!!! *rolls eyes*
-r
PS:
In my line of work, if you can advertise, and you don't electrocute yourself (or your customers) — assumption: You know what you're doing — you'll do fine. ALL IBOs: Develop a skill. Without something you can call your own (a business, a career, a SKILL), you'll always be somebody's downline. (Did I just make a gay joke? I hope so!)
-=-
Tony—
If this was a legitimate business, you'd be getting your Red Bull for MUCH cheaper, that's 'cuz you'd be getting it wholesale. I'm not going to go into it (I've gone into it before a couple times and places, no one, it seems, can freakin' read (yeah, toned down, non?)…), but when you buy at wholesale and you SELL at $1.70 or whatever you like, because after you buy it, it's yours and you'll be responsible for the sales tax…
-r
PS:
geez. Get your head out of your ass before they bilk you for all you have. Cult of greed. The person at the top of any pyramid is making money, the others are, you are duping your friends. How can ANYONE ANYWHERE EVER trust you. You are a predator! But no ORDINARY predator, who hunts PREY, you are a canibalistic predator. God have mercy on your soul, 'cuz if/when they figure out your gawddamn scheme, they'll hopefully tear you limb from limb and eat YOU alive. I would! Then again, I'm fond of little Aussie dogs named 'Mintie.'
-=-
Joe…
Joe has alot of time on his hands. I'm glad you care enough to donate it to all of us. Meanwhile, since no one has any real names, I mean really, selling the product, selling XS, or whatever, who has become diamond? But since no one gives any (real) names…
-r
PS:
Thanks again, joecool18 for putting in all the time. May all your wasted effort add up to something pleasant. I think I understand, though: It feels good to be right. And you do seem to want to help, like X says, or you wouldn't be spending all that time writing stuff. My Grandmother and I don't talk about certain topics because neither of us will ever agree with the other on these things. It is ohkay to give up on this guy, some people are hopelessly lost causes. Sadly.
Anyway—
Has anyone ever seen Requim for a Dream? It all starts out harmless enough…
-=-
Wow, rwe,
Are you feeling better now? That was quite a rant!
btw,
rwe>I'm SOOOO annoyed by these people who treat certain books like they're the universal truth and cannot be changed. This goes for Dictionaries, *coughs* atlases (geez, Canada has changed in the past 5 years and God only knows what's going on with Zaire, no, I mean 'The Democratic Republic of the Congo"), and double for the Bible. I think these people are LAZY thinkers. They don't want to think for themselves, so they rely on rules and regulations. The only problem with that is that EVERYONE ELSE is fucking HUMAN — including other 'don't go breakin' my rules' people, including the rule person him/herself. ZERO TOLERANCE. *sighs* oh well, as my friend 'Zombie slayer' would say, "we just won't invite them to the compound when the zombies come." (I'm sure he means it metaphorically…)
X>care to debate this one with me with respect to the bible on the religion section of the qblog forum? Let me know,
X
wesley, next time take your pills, and Then type your posts - whose blog is this anyway?
sorry, after reading all of wesley's tirade, I forgot other people posted stuff. I just don't care to waste my time at work, scrolling back up and down to cover everything, so please email me if you really want to know something. tonyqibo@yahoo.com
X, I'm not going to give you detailed info about everyone in my group, but for your info, besides ME, there's NO ONE on Standing Order right now! I've stated before that I have 16 people in my group, just signed up my 8th personal leg, and that I have hit 1000pv more than once. I've had 2 downline at functions, but none at the last one. I have IBO's that are buying products, but have never been to an Open meeting. I've got a downline that I've never even met, she just buys gift albums for her company.
I don't force my team to buy tools, or go to seminars, so my team's expenses aren't Nearly what You estimated them to be!
And Joe, your example of expenses are rediculous! $80 info kits?? We don't even have info kits any more! I give somebody an .85 QXB, maybe LOAN a $10 lit pack or a $8 CD.
All these 17 tape sets, and cr@p - we don't even have in BWW. Second looks? Whats that? Paying for a "Nuts and Bolts?" Those are free! and put on by your upline platinum usually. I never even heard of some of the stuff you payed for! Once again, you're talking about your Amway business in WWDB, and I'm a Quixtar IBO in BWW - its obvious to me its two Different experiences!
Don, I knew when I wrote that bull piss comment some low-life critbot would make that rudimentary 5th grade comment - I just figured it'd be df, or rocket, not you.
Joe, no offense, but You made more than one math error, not me. And you also need to work on your attention to detail / reading comprehension, cause notice I said "Averafe EDC and Up"!! That was straight from the Quixtar flipchart - they list the average incomes and "EDC and above" is listed at nearly $1mil/yr. Now I think the average Founders EDC, (just EDC, 9 legs) makes about $400,000.
Thats about it.
Tony> Don, I knew when I wrote that bull piss comment some low-life critbot would make that rudimentary 5th grade comment - I just figured it'd be df, or rocket, not you.
DI> You may think that the comment I made is immature, and from one point of view it may be, as a response to an immature comment of yours. However, what I was trying to illustrate is why one should always be wary of making exaggerated claims — a concept that BWW apparently does not teach.
T>$80 info kits??We don't even have info kits any more!
X>From BWW "SPKCD Starter Pack (US & Canadian CD version) $95.00 Literature & Misc"
Your right. They are $95
And if you don't want to post the data on your group, at least look at it for your own personal research please. You still have provided us with evidence that there is a net operating loss in building this business (That is excluding tools, btw, all the tools do is dig the grave much deeper, much quicker.) Remember that your TIME has value, too
Tony, just address this one:
Tony> Oh, and I never said the average Diamond makes $1million. I've said Repeatedly like the plan shows - the average Diamond makes $150,000/year! No tools, just Qx $!
The average EDC and above Does make close to $1mil a year though.
My upline Diamond said he makes about $50,000 a month average!
Anything else?
Joecool> So an average diamond (6 directs) makes about $150K but an average EDC (9 directs) makes close to a million. Tony, you care to explain the math on that? It really doesn't make any sense. How can adding 3 more direct legs (average EDC) result in almost $850,000 more in income?
I'm not sure why Tony so passionately defends this business. If it was such a great deal, why isn't he getting it done?
Tony>
You know how I'm gonna stick it to you guys. I'm gonna go home and make a bunch of calls and show a bunch of plans, and I'm gonna sponsor a guy, who sponsors a guy, who sponsors a couple, thats gonna sponsor your brother or sister!! And then they're gonna sponsor half your family, 5 are gonna go Platinum or above, and you'll get to be the broke negative -in law, that was too skeptical to take a look at this!!
Ever seen Caddyshack - "the world needs ditch diggers too!"
Posted by: Tony at June 29, 2005 07:46 PM
Tony>
I've been in LESS than TWO years, and I have hit 1000pv, MORE than once!! Basically I've treated it like a hobby for over a year and still managed to sponsor 16 people and hit 1000pv. I've taken it serious but not to the level of commitment many people around me have. Which is about to change.
Posted by: Tony at September 9, 2005 03:14 PM
Perhaps someone could teach Don what a 'simile' is! "Redbull tastes like bull piss". See thats a figure of speech - its meant to portray that Redbull does not taste good. It is not "an exaggerated claim". Much like if I said "Don is as dumb as a rock"! That does not literally mean that Dons intelligence is exactly that of a rock - it means [the rock could potentially be smarter] LOL - seriously, it would mean Don is not very smart.
Not that I'm making that claim, I'm sure Don is very intelligent. But his reply to my "bullpiss comment" was indeed immature and illustrated only that even corp CEO Don can sink to a 5th grade level.
And X, now you're talking about Starter Packs. I don't give starter packs to new people! Thats something a new person decides to buy when thery're ready to start building the biz / show the plan on their own. Its optional, it has a flip chart of the plan, some CD's, a book, a manual, etc. It's not something you would have a half dozen of and give to prospects.
And how did I "still provide evidence that there is a net operating loss in building this business" By telling you that No one on my team is currently on SOT or going to functions? What are you smoking? You guys want an example of a profitable business - BRB
Joe, why don't you READ what I write!! I answered that in my previous post!! Try scrolling up a few comments and see where I said ...
"Joe, no offense, but You made more than one math error, not me. And you also need to work on your attention to detail / reading comprehension, cause notice I said "Average EDC and Up"!! That was straight from the Quixtar flipchart - they list the average incomes and "EDC and above" is listed at nearly $1mil/yr. Now I think the average Founders EDC, (just EDC, 9 legs) makes about $400,000.
And Joe, why do you KEEP copying and pasting those old comments?? And then you ask a dumb@ss question (why hasn't he gotten it done) when the answer is in the VERY posts you keep copying!!! I've been in Less than 2 years and have basically treated it like a hobby! I have no one to blame but myself for where I'm at. But I plan on being more consistent, and taking more action to make it better. Thats what Anyone should do in Anything, if they're not satisfied with where they're at!
Well, Critics, Tony is currently doing a better job here than most of you. I have to agree with a few things:
1. Why do you keep digging up old posts? If it is relevent, ok, but sparingly. Just use the facts, not old comments, typos, or personal attacks.
2. I knew what Tony mean with the Reb Bull comment, I'm sure you did, too. Ad hominom attacks don't get much done, I am trying to deal with the facts. (Frankly, I thought that comment was pretty funny and most likely accurate. I never had Red Bull, but I hear it is gross.)
Now,
Tony,
My comment "You still have provided us with evidence that there is a net operating loss in building this business ", had a typo. I meant to say:
You still have NOT provided us with evidence that there is NOT a net operating loss in building this business
Sorry for the confusion.
My point is this: Even without the tools, the small costs that you are not thinking of still add up if you are building; add to that the products. These products, in general, are more expensive than competing products, so if you look at the total inflow vs outflow, the business as a whole (and top down from each point), is always at a net loss.
Regarding Starter packs: I was refuting a comment you made suggesting the business did not have them anymore ("We don't even have info kits any more"). Was I reading that wrong?
What we used to have (these were replaced three years ago) was a folder which had a bunch of literature in it and a tape or CD. These were replaced with a booklet which has all the exact info with a tape or CD in it. The cost was the same for these at the transition point ($10; I believe they are still the same).
Next, I am not as concerned with what you do as I am with what the Britt organization teaches. If you are building your business as you say you are, then you are not what they define as CORE. As such, if you seek counsel with your average BWW emerald or diamond, they will suggest you get core. My concern is what the BWW team actually teaches and does. If you are not in line with them, good for you, but your story does not weigh in on my arguement.
Tony> Perhaps someone could teach Don what a 'simile' is! "Redbull tastes like bull piss". See thats a figure of speech - its meant to portray that Redbull does not taste good. It is not "an exaggerated claim".
DI> Oh, Tony, I know what a simile is. But again, you missed my point. Something can be a simile AND an exaggerated claim; however, if you are the serious business owner that you claim to be, it would be a wise decision to refrain from such claims about your business, your product, and your competitors. Otherwise, your potential customers may not trust your business fully.
I was just using your comment to illustrate a point, Tony, and you would be smart to consider it.
Tony, you still didn't answer the question. I guess you really did waste your money on college.
Tony> the average Diamond makes $150,000/year! No tools, just Qx $!
The average EDC and above Does make close to $1mil a year though.
My question is how adding 3 more direct legs can push $150K income to close to a million. Your answer of "it's on a quixtar flipchart" is a riduculous answer. It's like saying I can fly because my upline said so.
Even though I made an error in drawing out a hypothetical group, I recalculated the error and the group still lost money. Prove me wrong if you can. Hurling insults is not proof of anything.
It's like I said, all these pro-q folks come on here and when presented with hard numbers, they start hurling insults and defending their position with "but my upline said so". Tony's starting to fit into that category.
Joe,
Tony is reading the page on the flipchart that says with real large (red, I think) numbers:
"We would like to make a point with you $900,000/yr", which Q itself claims is the average income for an EDC. The difference is not in the 4% leadership bonuses attached to the legs, but the EDC bonuses that add up when you have 9 legs qualifying. Remember that in the plan, they only show the "first two ways" out of 10+ means if income.
I won't bring up those old posts anymore, but I did it because Tony kept dodging it without an answer. He finally answered my question.
Tony> That was straight from the Quixtar flipchart.
Ok, but that being said, how come Tony has trouble accepting other facts that come straight from quixtar? Like the fact that the average IBO earns only $115 a month, therefore, for every Quixtar millionaire, that means that 8,695.65 others in the business must make NOTHING. (I checked my math this time)
Oh and Tony, guess what?? If you take 340,000 (approximate numbers of IBO's in north america) and divide it by 8965, you get the number 39.10. The approximate number of current diamonds based on the number of failures. Pretty close to what Lawdawg concluded.
Your turn Tony. This time prove something instead of telling us your upline told you. Afterall, I used quixtar's numbers.
X, thats for the objectivity and civility. I move you to the level of "critic". I'm not sure if I agree with not being core. I am on 'Kate, I do go to functions, I 'try' to read daily, I don't always show 3-5 plans a week, but I have and am willing to. But even if I'm not Core, no one ever said you Had to be "Core" to make money in this! There are many IBO's who simply focus on retailing XS, or Artistry who don't go to functions or buy any CD's etc. I think utilizing the system is helpful, but I don't think you HAVE to be core to make money. That's partly where many of you go wrong in your examples or scenarios you give. But here's one for you:
Let's say a new IBO simply does his 100pv/250bv, and then goes out to retail XS. Let's say he gets 2 bars, 2 gyms, and 1 restaurant to carry XS. Let's say 'on average' each account moves just 8 cans a day. (a bar/restaurant/gym could easily sell 8 cans in a day) Thats 240 cans a month or 20 12-packs a month.
At 7.28pv/20.4bv per case thats 145.6pv / 408bv per establishment. So for all 5 that would be 728pv / 2040bv. Plus the IBOs personal use, would be 828 PV / 2290 BV. That puts the IBO at the 9% bonus bracket making $206.1/month.
And That's if he's selling at cost. If just 1 establishment is buying at retail (and I know someone who has more than 1 bar buying at retail) that would be an additional $71.8 in retail profit for a total of $277.9 per month! If all 5 were at retail that would be a total of $565.1 per month ($23.99 retail / $20.40 IBO cost = $3.59/case profit)
Now let's say that IBO sponsors 6 IBOs who do the samething. (2 bars, 2 gyms, and 1 restaurant) that 6 IBOs at 828pv / 2290bv. That puts our 1st IBO at 4968pv / 13,740bv.
His bonus off his own volume is 21% of his 2290 = $480.9! His differential of 12% from each leg is $274.8(per leg) x 6 legs = $1,648.8!! + his $480.0 = a Total of $2129.7!!
So IBO #1 is making over $2100 a month (not counting retail profit) and Each of his 6 guys is making anywhere from $206 to $565!! And what if each one just went out and got 1 Gift Album account. Or got their family to buy some for the holidays. Or got some friends who work-out to buy some protein bars or vitamins, etc!
Even if each IBO is on SOT, 'Kate, going to every Open, functions, etc. - that's only about $112/month... even at $206 they're Still making money!! Not to mention the idea is for Them to develop teams too! Or just keep developing new accounts.
Now tell me, what's wrong with That example? Where's the scam in that? Why is that so horrible, why should that be shut down?
Don't bother telling me, "thats not the idea" or "thats not whats promoted". We do product training every week. We do Artistry clinics, XS booths, etc. to create retail M/C volume. Doing Member/Client volume is one of the 9 Core steps! Its a business! Its up to You what you do with it.
Tony, what you describe is the way a quixtar business should be run. There are some folks who post here who run their business that way and I have no problem with that.
The folks who promote "buy from yourself and teach others to do the same" and "tools are optional, but so is success" are the ones running a scam (in my opinion). I just want to be on here to educate prospects so if they join, they do so with an informed decision.
I have never said I want people to fail, or to quit. You can look at my old posts to verify that.
I also have not called anyone names on here even though some of the pro-Q people have hurled insults at me. You can also check that if you want.
xanadustc—
Yeah, I feel better.
Thanks for askin'.
-r
PS:
:)
See?
-=-
Joecool—
I don't want anyone to ever feel like they've failed. But if your thing is quixtar: I want you to quit and quit soon. Save yourself and stop sucking other people in.
-r
PS:
That's all. End of list.
-=-
Posted by: r.wesley edwards at September 21, 2005 08:10 PM
Joecool—
I don't want anyone to ever feel like they've failed. But if your thing is quixtar: I want you to quit and quit soon. Save yourself and stop sucking other people in.
-r
PS:
That's all. End of list.
Joecool> I don't know what you're talking about. I'm not pro-quixtar. I'm not sure what gave you that impression.
T>But even if I'm not Core, no one ever said you Had to be "Core" to make money in this!
X>Many of the tapes, meetings, etc DO teach that; it may not be reality, but it is indeed taught. That is why I am so against BWW as an oganization.
Regarding the example:
This is the theory of the business. Yes, I will admit that it is possible, however, real statistics must be in place. What is the probablity of that occuring?
Let me word it this way: In the town I lived in when I started, let us say that there are 100 IBO's. Is that fair number? If they each have 2 bars, 2 gyms, and 1 resturant, that is 200 bars, 200 gyms, and 100 resturants.
200 bars? I highly doubt that there are that many in that city. 200 gyms, not even close, 100 resturants? Yes, but of those, many are corporation / franchise, and they can not sell your item. Do you see that it is not a reality for your example to occur? You are limited by the 'carrying capacity' if you will; the amount of distributors that a town can hold at a profit. After those large establishments, that leaves only people to retail to, but I stand by my point that most of what the average person uses are much less expensive than the wholesale of your products, let alone the retail; and will therefore not buy enough of the products to make a living.
Let me examine your senerio of a person selling 2/2/1 at retail. Is $277.90 a good month income? The answer is no (I hope). Therefore, to make a livable wage, you still must focus on recruitment where each person at the very bottom of the leg is still not making a livable wage. Therefore, for each person to profit at a livable wage, there must be many more people NOT at a livable wage for that to occur. This is my point. (Yes, it appears that my arguement did shift from 'losing money' to 'not making a livable wage', I will qualify this later if I need to.)
1st, wes and joe - I can barely even watch that train wreck! "Who's on first?"
X, 1st of all, if you're gonna make accusations of what is "taught in BWW", you need to be at every BWW open in every city!
I'm speaking from MY experience at MY open and at the 4 other Opens I've been to in 4 different states! We do not teach that you have to be core. We teach that Being Core improves your chances of success. And I would have to agree with that. Why? Well gee, basically everyone I've ever seen quit are the ones that didn't go to functions, rarely came to opens, and weren't reading books, listening to CD's, showing 3-5 plans, etc. guys like my sponsor and other people 4000 and above, ARE on SOT, going to functions, reading books, doing 5+ plans a week, etc!
There's Nothing Wrong with saying being core is the best way to succeed in this business. I've NEVER heard anyone on CD or in person say, "if you're not core, you'll Never make any money". So You need to get your facts straight.
Also, if you going to quote me be sure you got the numbers right. You said:
X>"Let me examine your senerio of a person selling 2/2/1 at retail. Is $277.90 a good month income?
1st of all selling all 5 bars/gyms at Retail would be $565.10 a month! And is that a good income - I'd say h#ll yea it is!
"Livable income"? Who the heck said anything about IBO's at 800pv LIVING on their Qx income?? X, fill in the blank - "Have you ever looked for ways to create _______ ?.... "ADDITIONAL INCOME"! no kidding a few 100 bucks isn't great to live on, but for extra money?
Give me a break! You're telling me you couldn't use an extra $565 a month? And for what, setting up 5 bars or gyms with an XS account. You wouldn't even have to do any work. Sign them up, they get a number and they order What they need, When they need it. You're practically hands off after that!
And who said you had to only get bars or gyms in Your town? I don't Only have IBO's in MY town, why would I only get bars in My town? Its online - you're allowed to venture outside city borders! Even in different countries!
And yes, I'd love to hear why you switched your argument from 'losing money' to 'not making a livable wage'.
I like you X, but the Critbot boat is springing a leak. I'm not saying jump ship, but you better put on a life jacket.
Can I share a little song? I think mlm' will like this one...
(to the tune of "I'm Gettin' Nothin' for Christmas)
There was a critbot name D.I.
Tony frickin’ rocked his world.
There was Joecool, and some other guy,
Tony frickin’ rocked their world.
They logged onto QB each day
Bashed what IBOs would say
Now they pissed their pants and ran away
Cause Tony frickin rocked their world!
:)
Funny song, Tony, but I disagree. You have failed to stand up to more facts and arguements based on facts than any critic I have seen.
Going back,
When I say "what BWW teaches" I am referring to printed / published material. Would you like me to find a tape for you that says you need to be core? I'll start looking, chances are, I will not spend to long because lots of people say that. If you want confirmation of this and have a nice little BWW pocket calander, open it up and look for the 9 core steps and see what the printed material has to say.
There is the 'optional' arguement, but as a whole, BWW teaches that you need to be on the system to make the money. You want proof? Look at your last post. That is what they do: This guy is quitting, he does not attend functions, this guy is 4000 PV, he does attend functions...any questions? (Think old comercial with eggs and a frying pan for that one)
I'll respond to the rest later, I need to get going for now.
X
Tony, the only one who's "running away" is you, by casually avoiding and ignoring any points that you cannot refute. You either do this by simply ignoring the points during a debate, or by ceasing to return to a thread when it has gone off the front page, hoping that the others have forgotten about it as well.
While, in your own mind, you may think that you have won those arguments, any 3-rd party observer (including those "new people to the board" whom you hope to influence) you clearly lose the arguments you ignore.
X, thanks for hitting on points in my arguments, (and promising to address others) instead of just addressing a point in my little song and making accusations that I dodge all important stuff.
How bout You DI, what did you address? What do you think about my model? My arguments about being core? etc.
and Joe, I just re-read one of your posts, I didn't tell you it was in the flipchart to prove that it was true, I was telling you to let you know where I found the info. But you Missed the point of what I wrote, the Key phrase is "Average EDC AND UP" - you kept saying how does adding three platinums, blahblahblah - and I was saying " I Never said "EDC", I said "EDC and UP" make nearly $1mil a year.
I like to hear some answers/rebuttles now...
oh, and DI - tell me what I've casually avoided in the past! Just because you don't agree with my POV doesn't mean I avoided it, and just because I didn't answer something I've addressed a hundred times, and didn't feel like bickering over again, doesn't mean I avoided it! I haven't avoided SH!T and just about any critic here would agree with that!
Looks like Tony moron got some extra money from Quixsucm to post here...He is posting like there is no tomorrow....Hey trailer trash-a*&hole...instead of telling everyone about the guys you know making money, post and tell everyone how much you are making and that too with proof....
Now run back to your little cult and ask for more money....tell them the cribots are kicking your ass on the forums.... May be you can post more coherently after listening to more cult CDs...
Go back to Alabama you moron.
Yeaah, my favorite little terrorist is back, and still just throwing out insults and accusations. praSAD isn't there an IBO someone, you should be beating up in the streets? Oh whats that? That little 19 yr old new Platinum girl on the Gala team beat you up? I heard she was tearing things up - I didn't know it was you!
Tony> How bout You DI, what did you address? What do you think about my model? My arguments about being core? etc.
DI> Oh, that's a good one, Tony. You and I both know well that these "models" are your argument with joecool. Save for my one remark on this thread, our arguments are on other threads that you've chosen not to come back to.
As far as avoiding stuff, just look at any of the past threads where we've argued. You pick and choose what points in my argument you want to respond to, or you just conveniently forget about the thread altogether. Just as well for me, because it's obvious to any observer that the points you don't respond to are ones that you've conceded to me.
Yes just like you tried to pick fights with DF, MLM and everyone else ont he board and ran like a sissy when they said yes....Exactly like that!!!LOL....
May be that 19 year old wants to pimp her out like the rest of you Amsucm.
I haven't tried to pick fights with anyone! mlm' called me out, I backed it up, but since we only live like 10 hours apart, it was never gonna happen, besides I lke the guy. No one here is a sissy except You, you pathetic excuse for SCUM... and thats how its spelled.
Don, once again, I've never ignored an argument unless it was something I already talked about. My time is too valuble to keep argueing things like OTC rules.
If I have - why don't you ask me here, tell me ONE I avoided. Or email me, how many times have I posted my email and said "if anyone really wants an answer to something I've overlooked or not answered to your satisfaction, Email me"?? And only Keith Sr, and QB have Ever emailed me. Well it is again: tonyqibo@yahoo.com - feel free to ask me something I've skipped, or post it here.
And pisSAD, careful how you talk about that little girl, or she'll give you another @sswooping :P
I have a few more minutes here, Tony. I'll post what I can remember and remind me of anything that I forget please.
T>There's Nothing Wrong with saying being core is the best way to succeed in this business. I've NEVER heard anyone on CD or in person say, "if you're not core, you'll Never make any money". So You need to get your facts straight.
X>The more common phrase which means the same thing that i heard at almost every function I have heard as well as many Britt tapes is "You don't see anyone here making it wothout the system, so you? If they were here, we would bring them up!" I want to take an issue with this. I believe that if they existed, they would not be permitted up because 80% of the money of the kingpins comes from the system. Scott Larson has quite a number of MIA diamonds on his sight. Could these be people that did not use the system? Where are they? This is why I stand by my comment that the BWW system teaches that you can not make it with out the system, hence, so many people (yourself included) are buying into it.
Next, to respond to this one:
T>And who said you had to only get bars or gyms in Your town? I don't Only have IBO's in MY town, why would I only get bars in My town? Its online - you're allowed to venture outside city borders! Even in different countries!
X> The point in my example is that the number of IBO's universally will exceed the number of availbe bars, gyms, and resturants. Of those, only a small handful will actually sell your products. Did you get every account you tried to get? If so, why don't you have every single bar you ever passed? If not, you have just shown that all bars =/= opportunity at all bars. When the final analysis is completed, only a very small handful of IBO's will actually have these good accounts. What happens to the rest of the people? Do they make money?
For this one:
T>And yes, I'd love to hear why you switched your argument from 'losing money' to 'not making a livable wage'.
X>For this, I will consider the cost of the products again. Without having a downline, you spend about $250 to make $7.50 (I am simplifying for the case of example) If I simply clip coupons (which takes a lot less time than STP, contactings, etc), I can save roughly $5-10 per every $100 I spend at the store. Further, the prices on Quixtar are static; that is, they never really fluxuate like the market at the local store will. I plan ahead very well. When I see toothpaste that is a special buy (like 2 tubes $1.75), I buy it because I will need it eventually. The point is that buyng Quixtar products costs much more than you can make UNLESS YOU SPONSOR, so the emphasis is back to sponsoring. Thus, the only way to clear profit and not lose money is to have people in your downline that are not making money, but rather, losing it.
Adding that to my prior argument where only a small handful of people will actually get large retail clients, the vast majority of people will be losing money, few will make a few hundred dollars, and a very small group of people will make enough to live.
All that does NOT include tools. When tools are included, those three catagories segrigate muchquicker.
Let me know if I missed anything,
X
Tony> Don, once again, I've never ignored an argument unless it was something I already talked about. My time is too valuble to keep argueing things like OTC rules.
DI> Whatever, Tony. Just look at the "Free FED" thread to see how you pick and choose what you want to respond through. But it really doesn't matter, and I don't care whether you respond, just don't go around pretending like you've won all the arguments, 'cause you just ignore what you can't win.
I would never think of asking you to waste your precious time arguing with me; like I said it doesn't really matter. But Tony, if your time is so darn valuable, why do you waste so much of it writing screeds on this board in order to defend a business that doesn't make you money? Maybe if you'd use that time to actually do your work, your performance on the J-O-B would improve.
Tony> There's Nothing Wrong with saying being core is the best way to succeed in this business. I've NEVER heard anyone on CD or in person say, "if you're not core, you'll Never make any money". So You need to get your facts straight.
Joe> Tony, I don't think anyone has said no one makes money in quixtar. Obviously, there are some very wealthy people. You said that one of your upline diamonds may have made $120,000 in a single month. Based on quixtar's average income of $115 a month, that means that this diamond has at least 1043 downline who made nothing.
The contention I have is that far too many people don't make money, which is what supports the few that do. You can call it "working your way up", but based on your own statement that there is only one quixtar only diamond means the success rate is very low.
Tony, second point: If being CORE was really the key to success, then why aren't there more big pins breaking in north america?
Tony,
May be you can be a pimp to her...Glad to see you are growing in the world of 'Business'... Not that there is much of a diff between a scum who works for quixtar and a pimp!!!!
Trailer trash tony becomes Pimp tony... keep growing Tony...the harder you work the bigger the 'business' will be. :-))
Tony> Can I share a little song? I think mlm' will like this one...
(to the tune of "I'm Gettin' Nothin' for Christmas)
There was a critbot name D.I.
Tony frickin’ rocked his world.
There was Joecool, and some other guy,
Tony frickin’ rocked their world.
They logged onto QB each day
Bashed what IBOs would say
Now they pissed their pants and ran away
Cause Tony frickin rocked their world!
Joe> Nice song Tony, don't quit your day job just yet. :)
No not quite yet Joe, but oneday. Ironically I've actually ahd some poetry published. Granted, it was not a little nursery rhyme and that took all of about 60 seconds to come up with. But I may be a writer oneday. But anyways, all I really need to say to you again is "chupa mi gallo capullo"... there, wasted enough time on you. Now...
X, come on! "you don't see anyone here making it without the system"... noo, I haven't heard people say that either! Who's team were you on? Yes we promote the system, but we don't bash people not 100% Core!
I'm not 'buying into anything'! I can see with my own 2 eyes! The people who go to the functions and are on SOT, and 'Kate, they are the ones who are developing Big teams! I see it at my Open! And I've seen on my Own Team, guys that never came to an Open end up getting 3 "no's" and they fade away. Guys that never made it to a function end up never making any sacrifice to build a business, they keep playing softball, they stay in the golf league, and they end up quitting. But I've seen guys on my team got on SOT, go to the Opens, the seminars, and I've seen them get 3-4 wide and 2-3 deep. It's not a lie I bought into. I'm not saying you HAVE to be on 'Kate and SOT to make money, but using the system to help duplicate your efforts, increases you chances of being successful.
It like going to class in college, reading the textbooks, and going to exam reviews. Yea, you could probably pass a college course if you never went to class, just showed up to take the mid-term and final, but you'd be more likely to do well if you actually attended class, went to the lectures, etc. Its the same with this.
And also you made the claim "80% of Diamonds income comes from tools", etc! WHERE is your Proof for that?? Come on X, thats why I call some of you guys Critbots! Cause you're just repeating things you've read on critical sites that have no merit behind them! 80%, how do you know its not 55% or only 40% - how do you KNOW?? Then if someone's a 'Bot for repeating the "98% dead or broke" claim, wghat does that make You for repeating 80% income fro tools claim. I showed you guys checks for $95,000 and $120,000 in 2 seperate months! What are You providing other than 'critic lore'.
And you're saying IBO's universally outnumber bars, restaurants gyms, etc. 1st of all I don't know if I agree with that. There's only 350,000 active IBOs on average according to what I read here. I think there's At least that many establishments that served food and or drinks, in the Entire country?! But even if in any given city there were more IBOs that retail establishments, who said there was any guarantee? Just like DI said, its competition to get those accounts, thats free enterprise. Its not guanranteed there's a bar waiting somewhere for you. For the ones who can get retail accounts great, if you can sponsor.. great! If you can't than quit! And thats what people do!! That doesn't make it a scam!
Is being a doctor a worthy profession? Can you make money at it?? Yea! But can EVERYONE be a doctor? Well, No! Not everyone can be anything. So no, not every IBO can have a bar selling XS, but for the ones who do, good for you! Keep it up... not shut it down!
You mention price again -- come one man, I've already addressed this. Not even counting the stuff like the lownmower and cell phone, the camera and George Foreman grills, etc. most of the stuff I buy is equal to or cheaper. XS is same as Redbull, the protein bars and vitamins are comparable to the Compeition. You can buy the stuff that is equal or cheaper and do 100pv.
You said clipping coupons is less time than STP, but if you're STP, than you probably have a team bigger than just you, so your bonus is more than $7.50. Do like me and sponsor 8, go 1000pv and make $200+ in a month. Go get some gift album or XS accounts and make more!
You said 'only a small handful of people get large retail accounts'... small handful?? What like 7-8?? Come on, there's at least 10-12 with decent retail accounts on just my platinums team. In all of Quixtar there's probably Hundreds of people with large retail accounts, of either XS, the gift albums, B2B, make-up etc.
DI, once again you didn't list ONE topic whic you said I avoided. Just name one... ONE don! And i'll address it. Stop wasting my time!
And Joe, you said for my Diamond to make $120,000 than 1043 of his downline had to make Zero. Well guess what, if anyONE of those 1043 would have just done 100PV - they wouldn't have Made ZERO!! They'd have made ~ $7.50!! Its that damn simple! Do the volume, make the money! Do NO volume, make NO money! You keep acting like it just pieces of a pie, only so much to give.
It goes back to my bowling example. It doesn't take bowler A to drop from 250 to 200 for bowler B to improve from 100 to 150!! BOTH bowlers can bowl 250!
Its the same with this business. $373 million is just what me made this year!! its not a cap! We could ALL go out and increase our volume and make more money! If you make ZERO on a check - it was your choice! If Every IBO on a Diamonds team did at least 100 points, then every IBO would make at least $7.50 that month and the Diamond's income would probably increase too.
Oh, but I thought for a Diamond to make X amount of $, a certain amount had to be at ZERO.... Noooo - a Diamond makes money by people in his group doing volume, the only way you make ZERO is to do NO VOLUME!!
Joe> If being CORE was really the key to success, then why aren't there more big pins breaking in north america?
T> maybe cause there aren't enough people who are Actually Core!? What do you suggest, NOT being core will increase the success rate? There'd be more big pins breaking if No One was Core?? Huh, don't quit your day job either ;)
But anyways, all I really need to say to you again is "chupa mi gallo capullo"... there, wasted enough time on you. Now...
My apologies Joe! That was supposed to addressed to prasad!! I can't believe I forgot to type that little POS's name!! He's the only one right now Id be that harsh to... you and me have a civil debate going on right now, my apologies for the mix-up
The more things change, the more they stay the same...
Still on the tools issues! Lord, I've missed you all. Been busy vacationing with my family/ enjoying the lake house/ back to school nights/ kid off to college... In other words, living a great ex-Amway life.
Income is good, but fleecing the sheep isn't. Tools income is an abusive fleecing! The proBots will NEVER convince me otherwise.
Frankly, I couldn't care less if anyone makes it to diamond+ using, but not profiting from, tools income. It begs the question - someone is profiting from the tools.
Or maybe I just misunderstood the premise of the question.
Tony,
It sounds like your LOS may be doing things differently than some of the others. Some of it sounds good like not pressuring others into more tools, etc.
However, from what I gather, your group is the exception and most other LOS push the tools hard. I know my old WWBD group really pushed the tools, and guess what? They still do call in and pick up!! What gives?
Tony,
Cursing in other languages is not that great..Here is mine for you....'Teri Maaki chuth mein mere kuthe ki.....', LOL....If you want the meaning ask someone in Gala group, they will explain the meaning... :-))
You are nothing but the bottom feeder of the society...you ninja a&^hole...Oh by the way how is the 'business' going? Getting any repeat customers for your pimp 'business'?
Tony,
I'm getting busy here. i copied down your email address. I will find you teaching from the BWW team about system edification and email you.
Note, however, you are not openly criticized personally for not doing core, but you are corporately by the stage diamonds...this is my point. It fits the classic definition of mind control because it is NOT direct. If it were direct, it would not be mind control, but rather, brainwashing. I'm sure there are groups that do brainwashing, but I will assure you those people are rare. The mind control is what dominates the system.
btw, it was my upline that told me about John Crowe making over 50% on tools, the promoter from the winters team on the dateline show states Larry Winters makes "3/4 money on [system]" (whether or not this is allowed by Q is not the issue, the issue is that he states it) Scott Larsen has some tool income info, I don't know his source on all this, but I will leave it to you to disprove with facts:
http://www.amquix.info/quixtar_system_income.html
Well, I'm sure this thread will be closed or moved off the headlines, soon, so I will continue this debate via email or a new post. Give me some time, I need to get some things patched up around here.
X
Tony,
I'm getting busy here. i copied down your email address. I will find you teaching from the BWW team about system edification and email you.
Note, however, you are not openly criticized personally for not doing core, but you are corporately by the stage diamonds...this is my point. It fits the classic definition of mind control because it is NOT direct. If it were direct, it would not be mind control, but rather, brainwashing. I'm sure there are groups that do brainwashing, but I will assure you those people are rare. The mind control is what dominates the system.
btw, it was my upline that told me about John Crowe making over 50% on tools, the promoter from the winters team on the dateline show states Larry Winters makes "3/4 money on [system]" (whether or not this is allowed by Q is not the issue, the issue is that he states it) Scott Larsen has some tool income info, I don't know his source on all this, but I will leave it to you to disprove with facts:
http://www.amquix.info/quixtar_system_income.html
Well, I'm sure this thread will be closed or moved off the headlines, soon, so I will continue this debate via email or a new post. Give me some time, I need to get some things patched up around here.
X
Hey prasad, the business is going great!
Good luck beating up IBOs :)
(what I originally wrote would have gotten me banned again ;)
Hey prasad, the business is going great!
Good luck beating up IBOs :)
(what I originally wrote would have gotten me banned again ;)
OK Tony, you gonna bark all the time? The original post was:
Can you name a successful Quixtar Diamond who achieved his "financial freedom" by using the prescribed motivational tools and training systems but who is not also profiting from the motivational tools and training systems?
I thought not.
I've learned not to expect too much from you. If you did it half as well as you talked it, you might be something to listen to.
But you're not.
Rocket, you #@%&*# piece of sh!t - I've learned not to expect much form you either!! F$%#$ critbot!! Don't act like I didn't address the original issue! The question was bullsh!T - it was a vain attempt by qb to discredit us, Yet Again!
Who cares if there's no diamond who went diamond using the system, and now doesn't profit from it. thats the point! If the system works, then use it! And once your a Diamond, now YOUR time and knowledge is valuable, and you SHOULD be compensated for it! Didn't YOU read MY arguments?...
"Name me one college professor who became successful by going to college and reading books, but now is not profitting from the college educational system.
Gee can't do it can you? How bout this one..
Name me one successful Tae Kwon Do instructor who learned from a school and training system, who is not now profitting from that school and system.
What are you suggesting Eric, that we shut down all colleges and Martial Art schools??
Are you implying there is something wrong with utilizing a training and support system and then profitting from that system when you've earned a certain level of success. Is that the implication Eric? Is that wrong, should it be shut down? Well if it is, then you're saying "Yes" to shutting down colleges, TKD classes, and even drivers ed. schools!
Eric what a bain attempt to discredit Quixtar training systems! Is that really you or is that that NQB? BTW, did you ban r.wesley for his vulgarity and use of the f-word??
Oh and rocket you said> What teaching? What value outside of Quixtar are these CD's?
T> Thats like saying "what value does your Quantum Physics book have outside of your Quantum Physics class?!" Think about it rocket, thats the same dam thing!
Who cares if the books or CD's have no value outside of Quixtar - as long as they have some value within the business. But in my opinion some of the CD's (and 99% of the books) DO have value outside of the business also! The CD's that talk about people skills, or work ethic (like Doug Weir's 'Take It to the Front') do have value outside the business.
Oh and Geoff, Dave Dussalt started his business in 2000, he and his wife Kristen we're recognized Diamond at FED 2005."
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But if you really want a name of a Diamond who went diamond utilizing the system, and now is Not profitting form the system, I can name one....
Bo Short! :P
Bo Short is not a diamond any more. He bought a leg to prtect his downline from what he perceived to be an abusive upline; he joined TIF because he thought they could make a difference, then he just quit outright when he realized the depth of the scam and that the corp was complicit. He still apparentlt believes LM is not a bad idea.
I read everyone's opinion and respect all opinions. The truth underlies the facts of becoming successful in this business of Quixtar. Diamonds done it from the bottom when they entered as IBO with 100PV and Quixtar pays 3%. They increased their business volume not by selling tapes, cd's and books, but going wide and depth. Here is the link, you can see and read for yourself their success.
http://www.homestead.com/dursointernational/testimonials-FED.html
As Tony mentioned, many have not allowed themselves to become successfu
Hmm... I can't think of one (wonder why?). This should be interesting.
Posted by: Kurosawa09 | September 17, 2005 2:28 AM