« Home Improvements | Main | Revised Quixtar Chatter »
September 26, 2005
Kiyosaki On Yahoo!
By QBlog in Miscellaneous
MediaWeek reports that MLM hero Robert Kiyosaki is one of several new, exclusive columnists on the Yahoo! Finance site.
Yahoo! is launching a series of exclusive columns on its Yahoo! Finance channel from a variety of top names in the world of finance and economics.
The new columnists are David Bach, Stephen Covey, Ken Dychtwald, Robert Kiyosaki, Daniel Pink, Laura Rowley, Jeremy Siegel, Ben Stein, and Charles Wheelan.
I first heard of Kiyosaki from my wife's Quixtar friends but after searching Google, I find it curious that his name doesn't appear on any official Quixtar, Amway or Alticor websites — except for the Quixtar leader blogs of course.
Comments
That is the same Ben Stein, yes. Stein speaks and writes in print regularly about the importance of saving enough money for retirement. He advocates taking full advantage of tax-deferred savings vehicles like 401(k)s and IRAs. He think that low cost index funds are an excellent choice to invest in.
Kiyosaki could not be more opposite. I can't wait to see what kind of drivel he starts writing for Yahoo. I am not familiar with all the others on that list. Just Jeremy Siegel, who wrote the excellent book Stocks for the Long Run.
You are absolutely right. Robert Kiosocki never did affiliate his name with Quixtar although he is a huge supporter of the company. In all of his books Rich Dad Poor Dad, Cashflow Quadrant and many others he says that an MLM in today society is the best opportunity out there for college grads. He also has put out a website endorsing the type of business that Quixtar is. www.economicpower.com
The Mayor's Office strongly discourages people from taking financial advice from people who worked for Richard Nixon.
What? Carleton Sheets and Don Lapre weren't available??
Why do you find it curious that you don't see Kiyosaki's name on Quixtar or Alticor's site? He's not an IBO or in any MLM (that I know of) but in his books he does say that Network Marketing is a great way for someone to start a small business, put in some 'sweat equity' and develop another stream of income- without all the overhead of a 'traditional business'.
Kiyosaki is a self-made multi-millionaire. And yes I had heard of him and his book Rich Dad, Poor Dad before I ever heard of Quixtar. I think the fact that he's not in Quixtar, but endorses that type of business says a lot. If he were involved with Quixtar and supported them, it'd be one thing. But he's not an IBO, but still recognizes the potential for big business returns for small business costs.
But 1 of the best things Kiyosaki says, is in regards to what some people say about Network Marketing, not being a real business: he says "what would an 'E' (employee) or an 'S' (self-employed) know about a 'real business"?
He goes on to talk about trading hours for dollars, and having 'employee mentality', vs. developing 'business' or residual income and having 'Business Owner' mentality. Simply put, having "Employee mentality" is fine, as long as you're an employee - don't try starting a 'Business' with employee mentality.
I find it curious because of the way he was promoted to my wife (and me) by her Quixtar upline and friends. They implied that he was publicly supportive of Quixtar. That's all.
T> He goes on to talk about trading hours for dollars, and having 'employee mentality', vs. developing 'business' or residual income and having 'Business Owner' mentality. Simply put, having "Employee mentality" is fine, as long as you're an employee - don't try starting a 'Business' with employee mentality.
DI> Mentality schmentality. People with real business owner mentality would never fall for such an unprofitable waste of time as MLM. Oh, and Tony, when you recruit, do you first ask the person what "mentality" they have? Is there some sort test to find out the proper "mentality"? Do they have to pass this test, or do you just sign up whoever's willing to do it?
This talk of "mentality" is nothing more than a straw-man technique to silence critics. An IBO doesn't have a business-owner mentality because they do not have to deal with most of the difficulties and challenges that come with a real business. The only mentality required to be an IBO is a salesperson mentality. Those who can pitch the product and "the business" well will have some success in Quixtar.
Kiyosaki is a self made millioniare only after Quixtar big pins started promoting his books. Before that, he filed for bankruptcy, and was a nobody. Kiyosaki quickly realized where is bread was being buttered, and very quickly endorsed MLM after the sales of his books starting to rise.
Unfortunately, if you read his books, they are a stream of conscienous form of some good advice, some mediocre advice, and some crappy advice. In my humble opinion, Kiyosaki knows about as much as my dog when it comes to making money, and if it wasn't for Quixtar/Amway, he'd probably be filing for bankruptcy again. To his credit, he hopped aboard the money train rather well when it came, but the chances of any one of us making money like him are slim and none...and slim just left the building.
I'm not familiar with Kiyosaki. How did he make his fortune?
I looked up Kiyosaki on Yahoo and it says he's made his money from investing, real estate and writing books. He says that what rich kids teach their kids about money and what poor families teach their kids about money, etc. is a key. This may have som truth, but I would ask how he was able to find out about what people teach their kids in the first place.
It seems like Kiyosaki may have made his money, as DMM points out, by promoting MLM in his books, thereby getting the kingpins to promote the books. It didn't say anywhere that Kiyosaki made a red cent from MLM's himself.
Why would he have any credibility to promote MLM? The quixtar folks are quick to point out that you should look at the fruit on the tree. Kiyosaki doesn't have any.
Here is an analysis of his work by a financial planner who actually worked for his money. I will let you be the judge:
http://www.johntreed.com/Kiyosaki.html
It seems to me (and I have read a few of Kiyosaki's books, I found them rather useless) that he is simply tickling the ears of some people to get some money.
Qblog, it always bothers me when someone uses the word 'implied'. You say they "implied" that Kiyosaki Publicly supported Quixtar. That means they didn't actually say it though, that's how You intrepreted it. What he IS publicy supportive of is some MLMs or Network Marketing.
DI, when I talk to someone about my business I AM trying to get an idea of type of mentality they have. But I won't discriminate against anyone. To my knowledge, I've only sponsored 1 person that had Owner mentality before the business.
It was someone that had recently quit his job with a Fotune 10 company to start his own computer business. And guess what, I didn't 'contact him' at the mall - I was at a party, at a friends house. We were each drinking a beer and he mentioned starting his own computer consulting business, and also mentioned... guess who - KIYOSAKI!
The guy had already read 3-4 of Kiyosaki's books! That's when I talked about My business, he came to a meeting, researched the business model, looked past the negative hype obviously, and got started.
And something else Don, you know why I DON'T discriminate against people without owner mentality? Same reason I don't turn away Tae Kwon Do students who can't brake a board with a wheel kick yet... because they can LEARN to!! Make sense?
DI> Those who can pitch the product and "the business" well will have some success in Quixtar.
T> or those who get their mentors in front of the people they know, until they've developed the confidence and people skills to do it themselves.
Hmm, did Don just say the words "will have some success in Quixtar?" and he wasn't even talking about tools. WOW - Success in Quixtar, by being good at promoting the products and the business! Who'da thunk it?! Kinda sounds like Any business doesn't it? - be good at promoting the products and the company.
WAIT - here's the BEST!!!
dmm> Kiyosaki is a self made millioniare only after Quixtar big pins started promoting his books.
That's funny dmm, turns out he actually retired at 47, and THEN wrote Rich Dad, Poor Dad, and then wrote Cashflow Quadrant:
http://www.reiclub.com/authors/Robert%20Kiyosaki.html
Well that just doesn't make sense does it? Could you be a Critbot? Could you just be twisting facts and making false claims to make Quixtar look bad?? Looks like it!
I would really like to hear a level-headed critic make a response to this B#llsh!t statement made by dmm!!
Here's something off Kiyosaki's site:
Born and raised in Hawaii, Robert Kiyosaki is a fourth-generation Japanese-American. After graduating from college in New York, Robert joined the Marine Corps and served in Vietnam as an officer and helicopter gunship pilot. Following the war, Robert went to work in sales for the Xerox Corporation and then in 1977 he started a company that brought the first nylon and Velcro 'surfer wallets' to market. He founded an international education company in 1985 that taught business and investing to tens of thousands of students throughout the world. It was during his short-lived retirement that Robert wrote Rich Dad Poor Dad.
In Robert's words, "We go to school to learn to work hard for money. I write books and create products that teach people how to have money work hard for them. Then they can enjoy the luxuries of this great world we live in."
http://richdad.com/pages/teamrobert.asp
So Joe, there's your answer, I'd be very careful before believing anything dmm says.
You ask how he knows what the rich teach their kids. Well I guess you haven't read Rich Dad, Poor Dad. He knew what his own dad was teaching him. He learned from his bestfriends 'rich dad' what the wealthy taught their kids. He may have done some research to (?)
Oh, and Kiyosaki has Plenty of fruit on the tree - he's a millionaire! Just because he didn't make his money in MLM doesn't mean he can't understand it and promote it! Hello?? If he Was in MLM, then you'd all say he's biased. Gimme a break!
Did anyone notice that Joe, a 4000 pin, had never heard of Kiyosaki. Wait, dmm I thought Kiyosaki made his millions by the big pins promoting his books, oh wait - thats right - You Were Lying!!!
sorry, forgot ;)
Qblog, it always bothers me when someone uses the word 'implied'. You say they "implied" that Kiyosaki Publicly supported Quixtar. That means they didn't actually say it though, that's how You intrepreted it. What he IS publicy supportive of is some MLMs or Network Marketing.
DI, when I talk to someone about my business I AM trying to get an idea of type of mentality they have. But I won't discriminate against anyone. To my knowledge, I've only sponsored 1 person that had Owner mentality before the business.
It was someone that had recently quit his job with a Fotune 10 company to start his own computer business. And guess what, I didn't 'contact him' at the mall - I was at a party, at a friends house. We were each drinking a beer and he mentioned starting his own computer consulting business, and also mentioned... guess who - KIYOSAKI!
The guy had already read 3-4 of Kiyosaki's books! That's when I talked about My business, he came to a meeting, researched the business model, looked past the negative hype obviously, and got started.
And something else Don, you know why I DON'T discriminate against people without owner mentality? Same reason I don't turn away Tae Kwon Do students who can't brake a board with a wheel kick yet... because they can LEARN to!! Make sense?
DI> Those who can pitch the product and "the business" well will have some success in Quixtar.
T> or those who get their mentors in front of the people they know, until they've developed the confidence and people skills to do it themselves.
Hmm, did Don just say the words "will have some success in Quixtar?" and he wasn't even talking about tools. WOW - Success in Quixtar, by being good at promoting the products and the business! Who'da thunk it?! Kinda sounds like Any business doesn't it? - be good at promoting the products and the company.
WAIT - here's the BEST!!!
dmm> Kiyosaki is a self made millioniare only after Quixtar big pins started promoting his books.
That's funny dmm, turns out he actually retired at 47, and THEN wrote Rich Dad, Poor Dad, and then wrote Cashflow Quadrant:
reiclub.com/authors/Robert%20Kiyosaki.html
Well that just doesn't make sense does it? Could you be a Critbot? Could you just be twisting facts and making false claims to make Quixtar look bad?? Looks like it!
I would really like to hear a level-headed critic make a response to this B#llsh!t statement made by dmm!!
Here's something off Kiyosaki's site:
Born and raised in Hawaii, Robert Kiyosaki is a fourth-generation Japanese-American. After graduating from college in New York, Robert joined the Marine Corps and served in Vietnam as an officer and helicopter gunship pilot. Following the war, Robert went to work in sales for the Xerox Corporation and then in 1977 he started a company that brought the first nylon and Velcro 'surfer wallets' to market. He founded an international education company in 1985 that taught business and investing to tens of thousands of students throughout the world. It was during his short-lived retirement that Robert wrote Rich Dad Poor Dad.
In Robert's words, "We go to school to learn to work hard for money. I write books and create products that teach people how to have money work hard for them. Then they can enjoy the luxuries of this great world we live in."
Richdad.com/pages/teamrobert.asp
So Joe, there's your answer, I'd be very careful before believing anything dmm says.
You ask how he knows what the rich teach their kids. Well I guess you haven't read Rich Dad, Poor Dad. He knew what his own dad was teaching him. He learned from his bestfriends 'rich dad' what the wealthy taught their kids. He may have done some research to (?)
Oh, and Kiyosaki has Plenty of fruit on the tree - he's a millionaire! Just because he didn't make his money in MLM doesn't mean he can't understand it and promote it! Hello?? If he Was in MLM, then you'd all say he's biased. Gimme a break!
Did anyone notice that Joe, a 4000 pin, had never heard of Kiyosaki. Wait, dmm I thought Kiyosaki made his millions by the big pins promoting his books, oh wait - thats right - You Were Lying!!!
sorry, forgot ;)
"He founded an international education company in 1985 that taught business and investing to tens of thousands of students throughout the world. It was during his short-lived retirement that Robert wrote Rich Dad Poor Dad."
What exactly is the name of this "international education company" that is mentioned here? Doesn't it seem odd that the name is not given, especially if it has helped so many people?
Tony> So Joe, there's your answer, I'd be very careful before believing anything dmm says. You ask how he knows what the rich teach their kids. Well I guess you haven't read Rich Dad, Poor Dad. He knew what his own dad was teaching him. He learned from his bestfriends 'rich dad' what the wealthy taught their kids. He may have done some research to (?)
Joe> Tony, my point is simply, (I did not read the book) did he actually research what rich and poor people teach their kids? What distinguishes the difference between rich and poor? For that matter, what does he consider rich? I'm not being critical on this issue, I didn't read the book so I'm asking for info from someone who did. The only thing I knew about Kiyosaki was that he made some informercials, so to me, he is another version of Don Lapre.
Perhaps he did not PUBLICALLY endorse Quixtar, but he did cut a tape for BWW to give to prospects saying in it that if he had to do it again, he would pick MLM as his business model. Being that this was a BWW tape, the implication is that Quixtar is the MLM. I will have to listen to it again to see if he actually endorses Q directly on that tape.
The tape is BWW10 The perfect Business
T> We were each drinking a beer and he mentioned starting his own computer consulting business, and also mentioned... guess who - KIYOSAKI!
The guy had already read 3-4 of Kiyosaki's books!
DI> Oh, I see! So having business owner mentality is simply reading Kiyosaki's books! Wow, Tony, that's a great standard. You wouldn't know what a business owner mentality if it hit you in the face. I got a question for you: what do you think constitutes such a mentality? ANd these better not be vague responses that don't mean anything-- I wanna hear something concrete.
T> And something else Don, you know why I DON'T discriminate against people without owner mentality? because they can LEARN to!! Make sense?
DI> Learn to...by using the system, huh? So if they agree with us, they have BO mentality. If they don't agree, or use their own heads, and quit then they're just fools who didn't ahve BO mentality.
This is exactly what I mean when I say "BO mentality" is just a trick to discredit any critics. (A point that you casually forgot to address, Tony) By having a vaguely-defined, broad concept without definite criteria such as "BO mentality" a Quixtar supporter can use easily and without having to justify himself discredit anyone whom he doesn't like.
T> Hmm, did Don just say the words "will have some success in Quixtar?" and he wasn't even talking about tools. WOW - Success in Quixtar
Tony, "Success at Quixtar" would be beating the average income. When that income is $115 per month, you can see that success in Quixtar isn't worth crap by real business standards.
I can surmise RD/PD in two sentences: (I've read it twice)
1) Assets good, Liaibilities bad. (well, duh)
2) "Rich" people are brilliant - "Poor" people are dumb
Pitchmen like him, Sheets, Lapre, Whitney, et. al try to oversimplify finance and business to the least common denominator to appeal to people who easily believe that the "Rich" are some monolithic group ( like Hispanics, Christians, Liberals, etc.) that think and behave a certain way - and if one could just get that "secret info" that the "Rich" have, then Presto! - they will be rich, too (since "anyone can do it!").
Which leads perfectly into the BS "Business Owner" mentality myth. Yes, business owners are a monolithic group that all think the same way, too.
Jeez, you wonder why they call you Quixbots??
If I want investing info, I'll read SmartMoney, WSJ and publications like that. If I want fluff, I'll read People.
Kiyosaki is definitely the People magazine of investing.
The only true study of the rich is the Millionaire Next Door series - which debunks the theory that rich people all drive Porsches, live in estates, wear Rolexes...
No, people who are trying to imply how rich they are do that.
So, if being a Millionaire makes you brilliant, we should all get our business and financial advice from J Lo and not poor people like Tony.
Sheep.
Psst... Rich Dad is a fictional character - the disclaimer is right in the book itself. Go see!
Somebody needs to read John T Reed, hehe. RK is a hack, and RDPD in particular is a fiction, a fantasy. The guy SEEMS to have a lot of money now, but if this "rich dad" advice had had such an influence on him when he was nine in the 50's, how did he wind up unemployed, bankrupt and homeless forty years later? You can call that retirement if you want, I guess, if you accept that "98% are dead and/or broke at 65" thing.
Gotta give the guy credit, though. He figured out a way to leverage himself up from a broke dumbass to a dumbass with money. Just shmooze the right couple of guys at the pointy end of a very large pyramid, guys that are always on the lookout for (a cut of) something validating to sell to their cultists who buy what they're told, et voila! Move enough units of your drivel to qualify as a "bestseller" and use that to fabricate some credibility in the real world. I guess his effluent is mostly harmless, though; not like anyone with the juice to actually do any of what he says needs to read his crap in the first place, nor that anyone who does read it will ever actually implement any of it big enough to get hurt too badly. Just another huxter collecting a little from each of enough people to really add up, trading for some hyped up hope. A lot like that statistically insignificant number of pointy-enders with their pyraminions. A lot better than working, and actually creating value!
These pretend "businessmen" with their "mentalities" and "quadrants" etc. are cute, really, like some kindergarteners playing "shop" with the stuff out of Mom's pantry. The kids don't understand where the products or the money come from, or how the prices are determined, they're just going through the motions, imitating what they've seen like little monkeys.
Savings... well, savings=spending less money, spending less money=lower expense, lower expense=higher profit! Wow! The business owner understands what the real expenses are, like sometimes it doesn't make sense to waste $$$ worth of time trying to squeeze for a couple of bux, so they pay more than the bargain hunter, oh no! But then there's also a reason GM will spend $10K trying to shave 10 cents/unit off door handles. These guys "playing businessman" justify paying more for whatever just because "that's what businessmen do"; it's what they've seen or been told, but don't really understand.
The same way, they don't account for all their expenses, particularly the pyramid bonus. The theory of MLM is to take the marketing cost from the corporation and move it out to the distributors, but they sure don't take it out of the price! When you buy-from-yourself-and-teach-others-to-do-the-same, sure you get products for what you spend, but the value of the products is what the corp sells them for. What you pay for them is that plus the "bonus" which the corp kicks back and pyramids upward. That's an expense, about 34%, of what you spend on products, and YOU are where the money comes from.
Tony, I didn't read Kiyosaki's book, but I had seen him on TV promoting some kind of cashflow system or something. I dismissed him as being a pitchman like Don Lapre. These guys may have made some money with their system, but they probably have their current income coming in from selling their system. Hmm, sounds like quixtar (currently non qualified diamonds still cutting tapes/cd's?)
A good comparison is like those guys who sell you their picks for a football game. If they really knew all the winners, they wouldn't have to sell you the picks, they would go to the betting window and laugh all the way to the bank. Same as Kiyosaki and Lapre. If their system was so good, they could work it not have to promote it.
Sure you could argue that they are helping people, but I would think they are helping themselves. Does anyone know what the success rate is for people applying Kiyosaki's system?
Sorry been busy at my JOB, and replying to ignorance on a another topic, I'll try to address some of the questions/ issues here asap.
Take care :)
inq.mnd> What exactly is the name of this "international education company" that is mentioned here? Doesn't it seem odd that the name is not given, especially if it has helped so many people?
I think he calls his business "RichDad" or "ESBI" - what does it mater anyway? Why it is 'odd' that it isn't mentioned?
Joe> Tony, my point is simply, (I did not read the book) did he actually research what rich and poor people teach their kids? What distinguishes the difference between rich and poor? For that matter, what does he consider rich? I'm not being critical on this issue, I didn't read the book so I'm asking for info from someone who did. The only thing I knew about Kiyosaki was that he made some informercials, so to me, he is another version of Don Lapre.
I don't know exactly the research he did, or what the cutoff for wealthly was. Its the concept thats important: average people teach their kids to work hard for money - wealthy people teach their kids to have their money work hard for them. And no maybe not Every wealthy person teaches that to their kids. Its a generalization to get across the concept, of not trading hours for dollars.
X> Perhaps he did not PUBLICALLY endorse Quixtar, but he did cut a tape for BWW to give to prospects saying in it that if he had to do it again, he would pick MLM as his business model. Being that this was a BWW tape, the implication is that Quixtar is the MLM. I will have to listen to it again to see if he actually endorses Q directly on that tape.
T> thats great X, I wouldn't care if he publicly endorsed Qx, I wish he would! Your reply makes it sound like i didn't want him to support Qx. Or like we're trying to hide something. All i've said was to QB that he's not affiliated with any MLM - he made is money in "traditional" businesses, but he Does support MLM and as you said - if he had to do it again, he might go the route of MLM. Hey if he publicly endorses Qx specifically - Great!! Why the tone?
DI> Oh, I see! So having business owner mentality is simply reading Kiyosaki's books!
T> no you $%#%& moron! Did you miss the part where I said he started his own computer consulting company? He quit a Fortune 10 company and started his own business. He just happened to have also read some of Kiyosaki's books!! Make sense?
DI> I got a question for you: what do you think constitutes such a mentality? ANd these better not be vague responses that don't mean anything-- I wanna hear something concrete.
T> well OK there mister :P
So you wanna know what owner mentality is. Let me give you a few examples. 1st I'll tell you what employee mentality is: Doing X amount of work, for X about of time to get X amount of dollars!
Now an example of owner mentality: You drive up to a Subway late at night you see a man closing the door and locking up, but when he sees you pull up he opens the door switches back on the light and makes you a 6" Chicken Teriyaki. Chances are, that guy was the Owner of that franchise. Why, because he opened back up to make the extra sale. He went above and beyond. Chances are an employee would have said, sorry, we're closed.
Another example: An employee is closing up shop for a roofing company. As he's leaving the phone rings and he lets the machine get it. Its a customer who says that a strong wind blew off some shingles on a recent job they did. An employee is gonna say, "ah, it can wait til Monday" - the owner is gonna hop in his truck and repair the roof!
Owner mentality is opening a paintball store and not making any profit the first 2 years, but sticking it out and working harder to make profit down the road. Employee mentality is "what? I Worked and didn't make Money?? I'm out of here!"
Make sense? Agree?
DI> Learn to...by using the system, huh? So if they agree with us, they have BO mentality. If they don't agree, or use their own heads, and quit then they're just fools who didn't ahve BO mentality.
T> no, I'm not saying anyone is a fool! Yes they can learn it by using the system - but no just because they don't agree doesn't mean they're fools. This isn't for everyone, I've had friends quit, we're still friends, but like I've said - don't try building it with Employee mentality. There is Nothing WRONG with employee mentality. But don't try owning a business without Owner mentality or developing it. And you might have owner mentality, but still have to quit. I knew another guy who opened a paintball store, but was losing money when his rent was raised, so he was forced to close. He's not a fool for that. Now he's looking for a new place.
DI> This is exactly what I mean when I say "BO mentality" is just a trick to discredit any critics. (A point that you casually forgot to address, Tony)
T> I didn't casually forgot anything Jack@$$ - I can't respond to every BS comment you and every other Critbot make!
DI>By having a vaguely-defined, broad concept without definite criteria such as "BO mentality" a Quixtar supporter can use easily and without having to justify himself discredit anyone whom he doesn't like.
T> I think we all know what the H#ll employee vs Owner mentality is King of the Critbots! The only thing Vague is this "business" you own.
Bruce I don't agree with hardly anything you say!
Try to belittle Kiyosaki all you want - having an infomercial doesn't make you a hack con-artist!
And no, being a millionaire doesn't make you brilliant! No one has ever said that. But if someone knows something about business and is willing to give you their time and expertise - you're not too brilliant for not wanting to take if. If you want to do what they've done.
Bystandard, I'm just running out of time. I already addressed the issue of Kiyosaki already being wealthy when he wrote the books! He didn't get wealthy from Diamonds promoting his books!
Bi>The theory of MLM is to take the marketing cost from the corporation and move it out to the distributors, but they sure don't take it out of the price!
T> Wrong! The CONCEPT of the business is to take the money that normally goes to marketing or advertising and paying it to the distributors that create the volume! No cr@p they don't take it out of the price, cause then they couldn't pay it to the ditributors! Hellooo?
Joe, what system? Kiyosaki teaches Principles. He made money with businesses, investments and real estate, and still does - and now makes money teaching these concepts and success principles to others! Yes, he is helping other, and himself too.
Once again, is there something WRONG with that? Is there something wrong with me teaching TKD to students and being Paid for it? They benefit and so do I. What is your problem? Seriously?
Tony> Joe, what system? Kiyosaki teaches Principles. He made money with businesses, investments and real estate, and still does - and now makes money teaching these concepts and success principles to others! Yes, he is helping other, and himself too.
Joe> Tony, seriously, Kiyosaki has infomercials running that advertise something called his "cashflow" system. That's how I know his name. That's why I thought maybe he was a pitchman like Don Lapre or some guy who made his fortune buying real estate with no money.
Wow, Tony disagrees with me? Big surprise there!
You proved my point better than I could - you definitely subscribe to monolithic group think. Your Subway example is a joke. I can give countless examples of customer service I've recieved where the person went "the extra mile" - and they were employees to boot.
Sure, I've gotten crap service too, from owners and employees - but that stems that person's lousy attitude about either themselves or their work - not this mystical "mentality".
Who's trying to "belittle" Kiyosaki - he claimed to be involved in over 100 IPO's - but when SmartMoney researched that - they could only find one ( a very small mining company in Ontario). He also has some property in Maricopa County, AZ, but nowhere near what he claims.
He also claimed he was worth 50 to 100 million "depending on the day"
What?? Would some with "business mentality" allow their fortune to fluctuate over 50% on a daily basis???
If he's "retired" - why is he schlepping his books and seminars so hard??
Oh yeah, Tony, I actually HAVE READ the books - you haven't.
In his third book - it said on the cover he would list the stocks he bought to increase his welath (while others we're losing money). I read the whole book - it didn't list one!!
oops, I forget. I'm a critbot, so even though I read the books, I'm disqualified.
As Ronald Reagan used to say: Trust yet verify.
Working in Finance we learned (mostly the hard way) that just because someone drives a new car and has nice clothes doesn't = rich. They can flash all they want in the infomercials, do remember that Sheets, Lapre, Whitney and Kiyosaki have filed for bankruptcy protection multiple times (why? - if their "teachings" are so foolproof?)
The monolithic mentality thinker will go for the flash vs. substance
Employees think one way
Owners think a different way
Winners do this - Losers do that
we're all "jealous mf's" because we didn't go for the "extreme team" (sorry I didn't cream my pants like you did when i saw the site).... yawn
All we have heard is what you're "gonna do"
Spin it how you want - but they don't sell cars, boats, houses, and let you on the "extreme team" based on what you are "gonna do".
"Bystandard, I'm just running out of time. I already addressed the issue of Kiyosaki already being wealthy when he wrote the books! He didn't get wealthy from Diamonds promoting his books!"
You've addressed nothing. All you've done is parrot an assumption based on the holy RK scriptures and some hype. Like Bruce said, the guy was pretty much destitute before he started writing, and it's arguable how "wealthy" he is now, but there was a definite correlation between his rise to dubious prominence and making that one big sale into the system. If you want to believe he would go MLM if he had to start over, that's just more bollocks of the sort he otherwise peddles, and no more useful. Ever hear that said about Donald Trump?
"Bi>The theory of MLM is to take the marketing cost from the corporation and move it out to the distributors, but they sure don't take it out of the price!
T> Wrong! The CONCEPT of the business is to take the money that normally goes to marketing or advertising and paying it to the distributors that create the volume! No cr@p they don't take it out of the price, cause then they couldn't pay it to the ditributors! Hellooo?"
Two sides of the same coin. BUT, you're not catching on to the significance of this in conjunction with the lack of outside retail. Where does the money come FROM? When the outside retail is negligible compared to self-consumption (it needs to be the other way round for this to be "business"), you're just paying the marketing money to each other in a closed system. And which way does the money go? THAT is where it becomes a PYRAMID SCHEME. You're in business in about the same way as a cow is in the hamburger business. And it's cute the way you do that "hello" thing, like monkey-see-monkey-do.
Because, you see, the theory of MLM is predicated on the products actually being marketed. How's your marketing going? Anyone a repeat customer of their own volition? Or do you have to keep pestering people? When you do, do they say "Oh, you're still doing that thing?" and you have to dive deeper into denial when it's obvious they're buying out of pity? Oh, and how's that bar thing going?
The purpose of this site is basically to discredit Quixtar. QB or any of you can say what you want about just sharing facts, creating awareness, a place to vent, etc. - but when it comes down to it - its about "exposing some scam".
But look at you guys now. You dance around it a lot - but you Can't Touch Quixtar. You talk about Bill Britt's personal life, or and now you argue about how Robert Kiyosaki makes his money, but you've NEVER been able to make 1 Real argument about QUIXTAR!
What do I care if Kiyosaki, Carlton Sheets, or Don Lapre 'filed for bankrupcy'? Think about it guys, look at what you're arguing about. This site is supposed to be about Quixtar and you guys are asking what the name of Kiyosaki's business is and saying he owns land in AZ, but not as much as he says.
So this guy supports Network marketing. He's not in it, but says its a good, inexpensive, home-based business model. So how it is supposed to look bad on Quixtar that this guy, did Whatever?!
What do I care if Bill Britt had an alleged affair? Honestly people, should everyone in BWW quit Qx because someone they've never met was Human, and made a mistake?! When are you gonna get it that Britt and Kiyosaki have nothing to do with ME! They don't concern me! Bill Britt is an IBO! I happen to be 400 in depth to him. I've never even seen him in person.
If you believe that him doing Anything wrong somehow poorly reflects on me and my business, then that would mean any blackmark on the history of Any Executive in your company or Any government official in Your city/state reflects poorly on You! How stupid is that?
Once again, follow the Principle, not the person! Your pastor might give great sermons and do a lot of good for the community. But he's human! Just because he sins, and he Will sin - that doesn't make his teachings any less Valid! Do you guys understand that? "It doesn't make his teachings any less valid".
My point is simply: you guys are doing a piss-poor job of discrediting Quixtar! Sure you can point out when Bill Britt makes a mistake or talk about what some dishonest person in your upline did, or how many times an outside supporter had filed bankruptcy - but you've said nothing that discredits Quixtar.
Somebody wake me when you can say something like 'Quixtar has been kidnapping childen to work slavelabor'. Cause you telling me that you were pressured to buy 5 tapes a week means Nothing to me! Saying Kiyosaki makes money from selling real estate CDs on infomercials means Nothing to me.
I have not been pressured to buy extra tools, I have not been molested by my upline and he didn't steal my dog, or wife!
"Hows the bar thing going?" Its going good! I've got 2 bars carrying XS, had 3 but one went out of business, and I've got 1 gym carrying it too. But I'm talking to a guy right now that is interested in picking it up at some establishments he owns: 2 gyms, a bar and a restaurant, and he knows a lot of people in the industry.
So no, I'm not pestering anyone, I do have repeat customers. The gift album thing is a pretty good seller too.
Thanks for asking :)
Okaaaaayyyy then...
The topic was about Kiyosaki...
Somebody named Tony glowed about how great Kiyosaki is - being he's a millionaire and all...
Others refuted that... (I do think it's a big deal when people who give "financial advice" won't disclose anything)
Now Tony says "It's about Quixtar"...
Whatever.
But in all seriousness - it is good to hear you are expanding your business. Especially on the XS side.
Maybe you could become the "XS Spokesman" nationwide - it seems to be your favorite product.
It's nice you have these customers; are they all yours, or are some of them downline? The big question, though, where's the volume? Shouldn't you be showing some profit by now? Are they really pushing it for you, or do they also carry the ones people ask for by name?
Although I enjoy ribbing on you I don't really wish you ill, except to the extent that this failing for you, you won't squander your future and suck others into it, which is really a way of wishing you the best long-term.
Now, we've done plenty to discredit quaxtar, but you're going to have to GO TO THE FORUM to see it all in one place. You know, up at the top of the screen, just below the sinister-looking logo, where it says "Home About Archives Contact Forum Resources", click on FORUM, and you'll be magically transported to a whole new world. The underlying arguments are all laid out there and debated, and unlike the blog, they don't lose currency. I know you've been told about this before.
Once you've understood that:
*MLM is inherently fatally flawed (a feature of economic and mathematical reality)
*The experience of the last four decades proves this
*Quaxtar, although not inherently a pyramid, is being used as one by the kingpins
*The corp, by not executing their fiduciary duty to end this is in fact complicit
...it's all down to details, and that's where these blog threads always get mired.
From there, you get into peripherals, personalities and whatnot. Some find it therapeutic to take potshots at targets of opportunity, to work off the resentment of having been ripped off by a giant ripping-off machine.
I would like to humor Tony's statement about why it matters that Bill has had an affair.
Tony, Bill Britt promotes strong marriage, family values, ethics, and God from stage. I would submit this is stagetalk because he apparently had an affair or was in the least, in a very questionable situation with another woman. This is a personal credibility issue DIRECTLY involved with his verbal stance from stage.
I read the seperation decree that originated in the office in NC November 21, 2003; if you have not read it, it was NOT over the alleged affair, it was for his involvement in a Pnozi scheme and Peggy ordered a seperation because she did not want to lose her precious money and have to get a handout; the seperation will protect half the money, i.e., enough until she is gone from the planet.
AFTER all this, they appeared together on a stage, live before my very eyes in Washington D.C. at the Marriot hotel in April 2004 for Rex Renfrow's Spring Leadership (that declined over 50% during my involvment btw). They STILL talked about being happily married and provided no indication otherwise. Therefore, they are lying on stage to keep the group together.
Here is why: When Dave and Lorna Taylor split, HALF of their business died! They are trying to prevent that, so at the first function I did NOT attend, one of my old crossline friends told me that Britt was not there are that he will not be doing any more funcitons. I will not share the reason because I did not witness the response first hand.
Next, regarding his 'love for everyone', I will share this story again, my platinum went up to talk to Bill during a go diamond and Bill said to him, "Until you are an Emerald, I don't care who you are." This was not told in some little one on one place, it was at a night owl under the CONFIRMATION of the upline Emerald who witnessed it. That attitiude was edified. So much for that 'love' Bill keeps talking about.
I need to echo X's sentiments how how importnat Bill Britt's behavior is. He is brazenly lying about his marital relationship. About what other things are he and Peggy lying about? His dishonesty about his marriage, especially in light of how he preaches high moral standards and Christian living makes a mockery of Christianity. I am glad that he does bring some people to the faith. All I hope is that once they are believer, they get out of Quixtar and into a church home with a pastor who is true to God's Word. If Bill Britt were man enough, he'd come clean about his questionable activities, seek forgiveness and move on, with or without all the moola.
Bill doesn't bring anyone to the faith. People come to faith by the prompting of the spirit.
Major Ditto's on that, X.
Tony> My point is simply: you guys are doing a piss-poor job of discrediting Quixtar! Sure you can point out when Bill Britt makes a mistake or talk about what some dishonest person in your upline did, or how many times an outside supporter had filed bankruptcy - but you've said nothing that discredits Quixtar.
Joe> Tony, I think some of the compromising things that the upline says or does is more of a bad reflection on BWW or WWDB, or whatever QMO the diamond may come from.
Like you said, you could continue to run your business, but most people would rather associate with a line of sponsorship like that where they tell you to trust them and follow their lead. The QMO's teach the power of association so in their own teaching, hanging out with someone unethical will make you unethical. This is what the QMO's teach isn't it?
See, this is what pisses me off about Robert Kiyosaki. Why does he have to make a challenge between "Rich" Dad and "Poor Dad". He seems to enjoy the confrontational contrast between the 2 terms: Rich vs. Poor.
Why does it have to be either one extreme or the other? Why can't there be a "Middleclass Dad"?
MLMscam> Why does it have to be either one extreme or the other? Why can't there be a "Middleclass Dad"?
Joe> Absolutely right, because the middleclass dad makes up the majority of the dads in america (I believe).
There's been some comments trying to reinforce the claim that "Kiyosaki is quite wealthy and retired at age 47 well before he started this Rich Dad business". Its true that Kiyosaki claims this but is that actually true or is it more likely the case that he became wealthy AFTER his Rich Dad business took off?
A lot of the "get rich quick" BS artists like Carleton Sheets, Don Lapre, claim stuff like that. But if they are all wealthy and "retired", then what are they doing hustling for sales of books, tapes and seminars and making and buying airtime for sleazy 3am infomercials. There are basically two possibilities:
A) They are really wealthy and retired. Their "system" worked really well for them. The vast majority of their wealth comes from their "system". They just enjoy writing books, holding seminars, making sleazy informercials because its so much fun and they feel this great charitable need to share their "system" out of the goodness of their heart. They don't need this extra money whatsoever.
B) They are NOT wealthy (at least from their "system" their selling you) and retired. Most of their income stream comes not from doing what they claimed they did but from hawking books, tapes and seminar packages. They need to keep doing this to keep the money coming in to support their livestyle because this is their actual wealth creation system and not the system they're selling you. They are selling you a dream of becoming wealthy through some "system" when their actual wealth creation system is "selling wealth creation systems to naive fools that don't actually work that well if at all".
Personally, I see B) is the most likely. I mean, think about it, if YOU were that successful and wealthy and "retired" how many of you would be spending all this time, effort and money hawking your "system" and making 3am informercials???
I recently saw an infomercial where Don Lapre is pitching his latest "Greatest Vitamin in the World". The 30 minute show hardly said anything about the vitamin but mostly focused on testimonials of people who succeeded in selling this vitamin.
While the testimonials aired, it says "unique experience" on the bottom of the screen. You could make more or less.
I'd say less.
Wow.. Lots of weird info on this site, by some people who don't know about the individuals they are talking about. So knowing something of Robert Kiyosaki I thought I would answer some of the criticism of him:
"Its true that Kiyosaki claims this but is that actually true or is it more likely the case that he became wealthy AFTER his Rich Dad business took off?"
ACTUALLY Robert Kiyosaki made the most of his inital money during the Phoenix RE market crash, where he was buying RE for cents on the dollar, and that was BEFORE rich dad ever came about.
Robert Kiyosaki's carer goes something like this: Merchant Marine -> Marine Core (Vietnam as a helicopter pilot) -> Xerox (great sales training) -> Velcro/Nylon wallet biz (his first biz, which he admits to making a number of mistakes, including not taking out a patent, this allowed companies in Asia to copy his product while using cheap labour) -> Music Souvenir Company (sold t-shirts and other products for a range of bands, inc. Led Zeppelin at concerts -this was latter taken over, usually by the promoter) -> Had bought and sold a number of RE investments during this time (inc condos in Hawaii) -> Started Education Company about investing and biz ->Invested $$$ back into RE -> Retired (had more monthly cashflow coming in from investments than needed for lifestyle = retired) -> Wrote first book about failings of Edu system (his father was head of Edu for Hawaii, who died poor) -> Wrote Rich Dad, Poor Dad (taught people about Biz & investing in a simplistic way that had never been done before) -> Created Rich Dad Company.
"Kiyosaki is a self made millioniare only after Quixtar big pins started promoting his books. Before that, he filed for bankruptcy"
Many famous people have been bankrupt, inc. people like Donald Trump (trump has been bankrupt twice actually). He went bankrupt after his Velcro/Nylon wallet biz was hit by cheap improts from Asia. He built the company up again to a success but because it used the same exploted (cheap) labour he didn't really want to be involved. He sold the company and the orignal investors were repayed their money with a small profit. He took very little money and left Hawaii because of better opportunites else where. He also got rich by buying RE not by Quixtar or any other mlm. Get your facts right.
"Why does it have to be either one extreme or the other? Why can't there be a "Middleclass Dad"?"
The book is about becomming Rich. If you want to buy a book about becomming middle class there are books for that. They usually have the word "saving" in the title. They are great books if you want to be middle class and not rich. I want to be rich, not poor (ironically the rich are getting richer and the middle class are starting to decrease in numbers too).
-
Robert Kiyosaki likes MLM for three main reasons:
1. Gives you sales training (which you will need when u start your own biz up)
2. You can develop a passive income while working full time.
3. You can learn about biz without risking it all (unlike Robert Kiyosaki, who did actually risk it all and even had to go bankrupt).
As for Reed, the guy admits to only buying an investment property which he lost money on, he only has owned 1 investment property and that was 10 years ago. And Reed is selling books on real estate! At least Robert Kiyosaki made it.
I dedicated my site to Robert Kiyosaki and other Motivators: http://www.motivatedaddy.com
Ben Stein, is that the same Ben Stein from that comedy central game show as well as from Ferris Bueller? Bueller?...Bueller?...Bueller?
Posted by: quiksilver723 | September 26, 2005 9:08 PM