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September 26, 2005
Home Improvements
By QBlog in Miscellaneous
There's no Reader Mail today as I work on a few improvements to the blog. I'm trying to optimize it so that it loads faster and I'm changing the Quixtar Chatter feature.
While I work on the blog, check out John Cady's comments about Quixtar at AbusiveChurches.org »
I also questioned the ethics behind CFCMI [Christian Fellowship Church Ministries International] being more involved with Quixtar/Amway. I will refer back to the 2000 conference when Pastor Paine addressed the single men about Quixtar; I did my own reading online on the Amway website and I was not comfortable with the idea. I had seen family members get burned in pyramid schemes like this, and I had no interest. I personally view that when a pastor gets involved with a business like this, and gets the members in his upline or downline, a conflict of interest is created, and the ethics are questioned.
There are some who think Quixtar is a great way to spread the Good News of the Bible while others, like Cady, have real concerns about its presence in the church. What do you think? How does Quixtar help or hinder your walk with God?
Comments
Aren't most of the dreams they say you can acquire leading you to the 7 deadly sins in the bible? Lust for "the good life" Greed to make millions, Envy what the diamonds have so you can get it too, and Pride, because you are an IBO and you own your OWN business. I guess four out of seven isn't too bad
Does anyone know why The Baboon Brief forum isn't working?
As a ex-quixtar/amway silver I have always been torn by this question. Before A/Q I believed nothing. Through my upline and sponsor, books I read through the system I grew to eventually hate - I asked Jesus into my life. I was then asked by some crossline to attend their church in my town - (The business was not really accpeted there- I layed low on that aspect.) I am still a very active member in the church but no longer active in A/Q. I almost got started again last year when God lead me to all these websites and my eyes were opened to the evils of the system that I had preached so hard. I think the people that talk about Christ in the business are real - I think God is using them to make a bad situation useful to HIM. Look how God used David and all that he screwed up! Hopefully the evil people will be exposed and God can clean up what is left!
K3Bour
another IBO writes:
"Aren't most of the dreams they say you can acquire leading you to the 7 deadly sins in the bible?"
I don't think the seven deadly sins are listed in the Bible, but I'll stand corrected if anybody can cite chapter and verse. I agree with AIBO's main point which is that lust, greed, envy, and pride exist in abundance in "the system".
Funny, I thought the business taught people how to succeed by helping other people... How to 'take your eyes off yourself - and serve others.
I thought it taught about setting goals. And be self confidence, and to give to charities that do good work.
So I guess according to you guys, no one should ever strive to do anything. To have More would just be greedy, right? So Bill Gates & Donald Trump must be going to h#ll since they have Billion$, right?
And what defines "the good life"? I mean if you own a boat, should you give it away to live more humbly? What about having a house with more rooms than you really need? So shouldn't we all just ride the bus, live in a trailer, and never strive to achieve anyhting we could be proud of?
I don't even know why I wasted my time typing all that. Some of you people are pathetic. People with your attitude never accomplish anything! You never stive to improve yourself or anything around you. People like you don't invent new things, discover cures, win National Championships,
or achieve Anything great!
You can call it lust, greed, and envy all you want, nice try to twist things around. Did you go to college? Why? Cause you were greedy and wanted a higher paying job?? So you could have a nicer car, or nicer house??.... huh, to quote Farley in Tommy Boy....
"Sinner!" :)
Tony, Tony, Tony. I'll pray for the veil to be lifted from your eyes...
Funny, I thought the business taught people how to succeed by helping other people... How to 'take your eyes off yourself - and serve others.
--------------------------------------------------
Yes I thought that to because that's what my upline told me. Unfortunately it's not true.
I guess I’ll throw an extra “two cents� into today’s discussion.
Although Tony doesn’t state it directly, his post reminds me that only God knows the true state of any soul. I will point out; however, that when I was in the business, whenever the plan was shown, the focus was always on the dream. And the dream was always about the 12,000 square foot home, expensive car, etc.
Tony writes “So I guess according to you guys, no one should ever strive to do anything. To have More would just be greedy, right? So Bill Gates & Donald Trump must be going to h#ll since they have Billion$, right?�
It doesn’t necessarily follow that those of us who are no longer in the business don’t continue to set goals or strive for excellence. There is life after Amway.
Again, Tony writes “Some of you people are pathetic. People with your attitude never accomplish anything! You never stive (sic) to improve yourself or anything around you. People like you don't invent new things, discover cures, win National Championships, or achieve Anything great!�
Most people don’t invent new things, discover cures, or win National Championships. If you ever meet an IBO or a non-IBO who does, let me know.
One of the things that has long bothered me about this blog is the stereotyping that goes on and the anti-Quixtar people are actually worse about this than the pro-Quixtar people. At this point in my life, I’ve come to believe that the business is fatally flawed. However, I’d also like to go on the record as saying that I object to a lot of the personal attacks that some of the critics have directed towards Tony. I know that Tony is more than capable to taking care of himself, but the attacks still bug me.
I’m not a Chris Farley fan. I haven’t seen any of his movies.
No one has attacked Tony. Some have attacked his words. There's a big difference.
And as for the subject at hand:
If Amway/Quixtar is a business, why should we have to ask if it should be performing the function of a church? When I signed up in Amway, no one was signing me up into a church, and no one I ever met in the business claimed to have signed up for that purpose.
If it had not been presented to me as a business, I would not have signed up for it. I was not looking for a church.
I believe that using one's religious tenets to promote a business is a dubious act. If the business is legitimate, then the product or service it provides will stand up regardless of the religion of the people behind it.
And using people's religious beliefs in order to scam them is one of the most shameful acts I can imagine.
PW
All I know is that after my inlaws tried to enlighten me and my husband to "The Biz," I suddenly felt guilty for being content with my modest, middle-class home and vocation. I am a teacher at a Christian school and my husband is a pastor, and I felt guilty that we weren't "dreaming big" in order to support huge mission projects over seas. It took me a while to realize that ministry is not equal to money.
I get frustrated when I ask my sister in law, who has wonderful people skills and a fervently strong faith in God put off any type of activity in a church because she has to put all her time into "the Biz." In her words: Yeah, I do miss it (church work), but I know that I'll get to do it later. (as when she is "retired."
Tony> Funny, I thought the business taught people how to succeed by helping other people... How to 'take your eyes off yourself - and serve others.
DI> This is a BUSINESS that's doing this? Funny, I thought the primary goal of a business is to make money. I don't need my business to teach me about life — if I ever do need teaching like that, there are religious organizations to turn to.
Sure, it is imperative to keep your business honest, but from what I've heard of AmQuix, that's far from the case in most situations.
Tony> I thought it taught about setting goals. And be self confidence, and to give to charities that do good work.
DI> So is this a church or a business? Maybe if they'd focus on teaching how to make money instead of touchy-feely self-improvement crap and instead of that which churches are supposed to teach, then the average IBO income would be higher than $140 a month.
Hello!
It's been a while since I posted here. I'll just throw in my two cents.
Tony, my man! There certainly is nothing wrong with striving to earn more money to spend on bigger cars, houses, etc. I just think it's a bit of a waste to spend one's hard earned brass on the system that is created by the QMOs.
I bought a new car just last week. Had I been taking part in Quixtar, the cash that I spent on my car would have gone on the system.
That's the beauty of not being in Quixtar. Use the money that you earn at work to either save or spend on things that you actually want / need - instead of using it to line the pockets of those 'diamond' characters who laugh all the way to the bank at the end of each function - their pockets laden with the hard-earned dollars of the hapless IBOs.
Tony> So I guess according to you guys, no one should ever strive to do anything. To have More would just be greedy, right? So Bill Gates & Donald Trump must be going to h#ll since they have Billion$, right?
Joecool> But Tony, Bill Gates donated over 20 Billion dollars to charity. Now I'm not sure abot Trump, but I've never seen or heard of any diamond making such a charitable donation.
You guys are so screwed up! Who sayed the diamonds had to post their charitable donations. are you claiming to know the heart of man?
Quixtar is just a business, but their is nothing wrong with wittnessing to people is there. Do you wittness to people at work?
And if you knew anything about the business you would know how the money works and that the diamond don't go laughing to the bank.
I would hope you're not following people in your life but following priciples. Because people will let you down (including in this business). But if your following principles in your life (God, Family, Business last) then nothing should shake you. Expecially all of you guys and your foolish, ignorant comments.
God, family, business, God placed first.
So say I attend all the functions, the weekly meetings and show the plan four times a week as the business would have me to do, how does this show that I am putting God and/or family first? It sure looks like I'm putting a lot more emphasis on the business aspect if you ask me. The "God, family, business" theory is what I'm following now. I don't need Quixtar to make that possible. My vocation doesn't take every waking our out of me, plus I get to be involved in church activities.
If AQ were truly changing peoples' heart and bringing them to the ENTIRE truth of the Bible, people would learn once they got into the Word that they need to put God first, not the sacred "business" and use their time better elsewhere in God's kingdom work.
quixtar ibo> You guys are so screwed up! Who sayed the diamonds had to post their charitable donations. are you claiming to know the heart of man?
Joe> I didn't make that claim. All I know is when I was in the business, I attended a function (in Hawaii) where Mike Woods (EDC) was taking a collection for Easter Seals. He was pounding his chest bragging about how he donated $1000 cash. Big deal, if he's making close to $100,000 a month, he's a cheapskate. (Tony pointed out that a quixtar chart shows that an EDC and above makes average income of close to one million dollars a year).
Scott> It doesn’t necessarily follow that those of us who are no longer in the business don’t continue to set goals or strive for excellence.
T> I didn't say that now Did I Scott? I said what I said because aibo said that we were sinful for desiring to have more. My point was: that mentality is flawed. That's why I said "So I guess according to you guys, no one should ever strive to do anything. To have More would just be greedy, right?"
I hope that clarifies.
Scott> Most people don’t invent new things, discover cures, or win National Championships. If you ever meet an IBO or a non-IBO who does, let me know.
T> So since most people don't, you shouldn't strive to?? Gimme a break Scott. Once again my point was that people who have aibo's mentality don't Do those things. You've got to have pride, goals, and the desire to do/have more in Order to do those things. And FYI, I know 7 people who have patents, and a friend of mine in TKD (who happens to be an IBO) won Nationals in sparring a few years ago. Not to mention I'm from Ohio, OSU won a National Championship a couple years ago!
DI, is there something wrong with a business teaching people to succeed by helping other people? A wise man said, "you will get what you want in life, if you will just help enough other people get what they want." This is kinda the concept of franchising. Help multiple outlets be successful, by default You're successful! You aren't the great business mind you pretend to be.
Tony> I thought it taught about setting goals. And self confidence, and to give to charities that do good work.
DI> So is this a church or a business?
T> so teaching about goal-setting, and self-confidence, and promoting charitable contributions is only what a church should do?? Well then someone should tell my company!! Cause we promote United Way, and Community Service events ALL the Time!!! Oh my goodness, are we a company or a church?!?
Don, your ignorance and negative attitude is really starting to get old and boring!
1 thing Scott said, which I appreciate his objectiveness about was: "One of the things that has long bothered me about this blog is the stereotyping that goes on and the anti-Quixtar people are actually worse about this than the pro-Quixtar people." (Nuff said.)
Thank you Scott, I agree. PW thinks I haven't been attacked, well PW isn't reading it all then. Scott, you are right, and it is sickening. The narrow-minded stereotypes and personal attackes are sickening. That has Long bothered me about this blog as well.
That was from one of your own, guys. A critic himself said it!
Oh there goes Joe twisting stuff now! I LOVE it!! JOE - was Mike Woods an EDC? Then why not quote what I said an average EDC makes?? Somewhere around $400,000/year I believe!! No you quote "average EDC and Above" which averaged in Double, Triple, etc! From 4000pin to critbot! Amazing!
And inquiring mind, you need to understand that by taking some time now, they ARE providing for their family and their church down the road. Its called long term thinking. Or delayed gratification. Whats better, your sister helping a few hours on a weekend or taking 5 years away from it, so that it can be the Focus of what she does later on? She'll be able to donate MUCH more time And money, when they're at Emerald or Diamond.
Why don't people look at a JOB as taking time away from family or church. I'd much rather be with friends or family or tutoring kids at 2pm on a Tues as much as I do on a Saturday? And guess what- that kid would benefit from tutoring @ 2pm on Tuesday as much as he would on a Saturday!
Why is it that M-F, 9-5 is off limits? Well guess what? Emeralds & Diamonds that I know are spending time with their kids at theme parks, and out on the lake... not on Sat/Sun - but on Wedsday at 10am when its not crowded, they do it when everyone else is working!
So whats wrong with taking some time to develop a business that can allow you to retire so that you can spend MORE time & $ helping charities, or more time with your family?? Whats wrong with that??
But guess what - it doesn't have to be EVERY hour!! I don't put EVERY free hour into my business. I'm gonna be doing a walk for charity in 2 weeks! And I still spend time with friends &family! I promote being balanced! But I don't have a problem with someone missing Sunday school to be at a weekend conference. Someone else can teach Sunday school. I'd rather learn what I need to learn - build it big, and then donate my time & $ as I see fit later! Thats not wrong - thats Smart!
oh you must not have a job because then you would be prussing money instead of your family and God. I don't need quixtar to make that possible either. when did i say i did? oh right you just made that up to make you feel better.
and let us know how many people you gotten to lead to the Lord in the next 40 years when you slaving away at your job and we'll let you know how the people in our business got to retire and self support missionaries and send themselves to the missionfield as well.
and to joe, again how do your know that hea doesn't give millions to other charitable donations. you can't tell me you not judging him.
Tony> Oh there goes Joe twisting stuff now! I LOVE it!! JOE - was Mike Woods an EDC? Then why not quote what I said an average EDC makes?? Somewhere around $400,000/year I believe!! No you quote "average EDC and Above" which averaged in Double, Triple, etc! From 4000pin to critbot! Amazing!
Joe> Tony, my point is that he's cheap if he makes big bucks and then brags to the downline that he's donating $1000. I'm sure most people would agree with this.
Tony> Why don't people look at a JOB as taking time away from family or church. I'd much rather be with friends or family or tutoring kids at 2pm on a Tues as much as I do on a Saturday? And guess what- that kid would benefit from tutoring @ 2pm on Tuesday as much as he would on a Saturday!
Joe> Because the JOB allows a man to feed his children while quixtar sucks away income unless you actually make it to a significant level in the business. Based on your own statements Tony, you would not be able to support any kids on your quixtar income.
Tony> Why is it that M-F, 9-5 is off limits? Well guess what? Emeralds & Diamonds that I know are spending time with their kids at theme parks, and out on the lake... not on Sat/Sun - but on Wedsday at 10am when its not crowded, they do it when everyone else is working!
Joe> Sure, but the diamonds neglect their kids at night showing the plan and on weekends when they are at functions. Once kids get older, they are in school while the parents are working. Oh and Tony, what about people working the business with kids who still have a job and have to attend functions and other quixtar trainings?
Tony> So whats wrong with taking some time to develop a business that can allow you to retire so that you can spend MORE time & $ helping charities, or more time with your family?? Whats wrong with that??
Joe> There's nothing wrong with that and it's even commendable. The problem is that there's a retired diamond kingpin who may be doing that and thousands of IBO's "working their way up (losing money) who can't do that because their extra money is spent on tapes/cd's books and functions.
Tony> But guess what - it doesn't have to be EVERY hour!! I don't put EVERY free hour into my business.
Joe> That's good Tony, but people who are dedicated to being CORE do put in every waking hour into the business. I know, been there done that.
quixtar ibo> and to joe, again how do your know that hea doesn't give millions to other charitable donations. you can't tell me you not judging him.
Joe> I don't know, but I am not judging anyone either. All I do know is that some kingpins used to attend the same church I attended and they were never at church functions and were not regular service attenders either.
So your saying that because their not coming to church evey Sunday their not good people?
who's loosing money? It's all 100% money back garentee in our business.
And i also know personally kids of poeple who built the business to a large level who said they were never neglected or put out.
Oh and i'll remember to tell my brother-in-law who is a cpa that when he misses church 5 x's a year for business travel that everyone at church thinks he's a bad christian b/c he's supporting his family.
It's one thing for me to be here defending my business when I really don't have to b/c it's got enough credibilty itself. But for all of you to be on here wasting you time is a joke. I hope you all feel better about quiting now.
oh and to just let all you idiots know. Quixtar is just a ditribution site on the internet. That company has nothing to do with the cd, books or tapes. it's all about what team your on. and yes you may be on a srewed up team. sorry, sucks for you!
Okay, two more cents (and I'll try to keep it brief).
My first post in this thread was a response to AIBO's comment on four of the "seven deadly sins". I mentioned that they were prevalent in the business but should have added that this was my opinion based on my own (early 80's) Amway experience.
Tony's first note got me thinking that only God really knows what's in a person's heart. My gut feeling was - and still is - that showing the plan places way too much emphasis on the material side of things. Material things are good, but the key is all things in moderation. I think Tony and I are just going to have to agree to disagree on that one.
Tony's first note continues to say "So I guess according to you guys, no one should ever strive to do anything. To have More would just be greedy, right?" which I felt was stereotyping both non-IBOs and ex-distributors. You don't have to be in the business to set goals and to strive for excellence.
Further down in his first note Tony writes "People with your attitude never accomplish anything! You never stive to improve yourself or anything around you. People like you don't invent new things, discover cures, win National Championships,
or achieve Anything great!" Again, this paints non-IBOs and ex-IBOs with too broad of a brush. Being negative about A/Q does not mean being negative about life. Also, as I read his note the first time through, my thought was that you don't have to discover cures, etc, in order to be a success. Goals are a very individual thing. They should challenge the person but at the same time be within that person's reach. Again, all things in moderation.
I just love getting you guys rilled up! :-)
I never realized that God calls us to be active in our churches and families once we are filthy rich. I forgot that God only sees the money that we can give Him, and only in large quantities, and doesn't see sharing His saving work of salvation with our neighbor just as beneficial.
Oops. My bad.
quixtar ibo> So your saying that because their not coming to church evey Sunday their not good people?
Joe> I didn't say that. Please go back and read my post again.
of coarse GOD sees all the money we give as beneficial. but there's nothing wrong with working in our off time to create more and give more instead of watching your favorite show on tv.
and as far as being rilled up. why benifit does this give you to waste your time doing this. maybe you should be yousing it to make more money to give to God. or spending it with your spouse. mine is out furthering our future. how bout you?
joe then what was your point of saying the "kingpins" weren't regular attenders?
quixtar ibo> of coarse GOD sees all the money we give as beneficial. but there's nothing wrong with working in our off time to create more and give more instead of watching your favorite show on tv.
Joe> God doesn't need our money. God can create anything he wants. Our giving of our time and money is a way for us to show God that we are giving from our hearts and that we are glorifying him and showing faith in him when we give. The amount doesn't necessarily matter, like how the poor woman's pennies meant more to God than the Pharisees wealthy gifts. This was because the poor woman gave from her heart and the Pharisees gave because they simply felt it was their duty.
quixtar ibo> joe then what was your point of saying the "kingpins" weren't regular attenders?
Joe> The amway/quixtar kingpins taught that God is #1, Spouse #2, Family #3, etc
If they aren't regular attenders.....
Are they making God #1?
i don't know I don't know there heart. what i do know is that they have non-denomination services at the functions. and if you would ask missionaries or people who go to china to work their if they ar "regular attenders" they would say no not for a little while.
at least their teaching good principles. i don't follow people i follow principles.
quixtar ibo> i don't know I don't know there heart. what i do know is that they have non-denomination services at the functions. and if you would ask missionaries or people who go to china to work their if they ar "regular attenders" they would say no not for a little while.
Joe> That's fine, doing missionary work is for God. I can't say the same about a quixtar function or a board plan or a nuts and bolts.
I'll admit that coming to this blog is a combination entertainment/therapy. Since it does me no good to talk with my inlaws about the flaws in the AQ business/religion, I come here to try to point out some of thoses things. True, there are better things that I could do with my time. I think that could be said about any type of entertainment a person chooses. Just don't consider AQ a type of ministry.
T> T> so teaching about goal-setting, and self-confidence, and promoting charitable contributions is only what a church should do?? Well then someone should tell my company!! Cause we promote United Way, and Community Service events ALL the Time!!! Oh my goodness, are we a company or a church?!?
DI> First of all, promoting "goal-setting" and "self-confidence" has nothing to do with your company's support of charities. Second, Tony, all this promotion on Quixtar's part is USELESS. To see why, reply (instead of so easily ignoring as you have wont to do) to what I wrote later:
"Maybe if they'd focus on teaching how to make money instead of touchy-feely self-improvement crap and instead of that which churches are supposed to teach, then the average IBO income would be higher than $140 a month."
T> But guess what - it doesn't have to be EVERY hour!! I don't put EVERY free hour into my business. I'm gonna be doing a walk for charity in 2 weeks! And I still spend time with friends &family! I promote being balanced!
DI> Tony, and in other posts you claimed that you "weren't building the business enough" and that you were going to devote more time to the business. You also used that fact as an excuse for your pathetic (lack of an) income. So Tony, the question is: can an average person have your "balanced life" and make good money with this business? According to Quixtar, no, since the average income is $115 per month. According to yourself, the answer is "no", as well. The other question is: can an average person make more than minimum wage in this business? If you devote more time to recruit more people to make more money, your returns are still a function of the time you put in.
And if I may add, it seems that the quixtar kingpins tie in the concept that quixtar is a Godly business because then they can justify any business related event as serving God and therefore reinforcing the notion that God is #1.
How many people would have signed up if you told them in the plan that this was the case? Isn't quixtar supposed to be a business opportunity?
"...it seems that the quixtar kingpins tie in the concept that quixtar is a Godly business because then they can justify any business related event as serving God and therefore reinforcing the notion that God is #1."
So it's OK to be a prostitute if I give all my earnings to missions and charities. My "business" would be a Godly business because I was using my profits to serve others.
I think I finally get it!
inquiringmind> So it's OK to be a prostitute if I give all my earnings to missions and charities. My "business" would be a Godly business because I was using my profits to serve others.
Joe> If you compare all the deception and lies from the kingpin diamonds under the guise of a God pleasing business, I guess that's a pretty close analogy.
Touche, Joe!
Joe> Tony, my point is that he's cheap if he makes big bucks and then brags to the downline that he's donating $1000. I'm sure most people would agree with this.
T> I DON'T CARE!!! So he's F$%#*ing cheap!!! My CEO might be a womanizing cheapskate too, am I gonna quit my job??? This guy ain't MY diamond and he ain't ME!!! So what do I care if he only gave $1000 at a function?! Who knows how much he gives to Other charities? These arguments to discredit the business are USELESS!! So theres a cheap Diamond somewhere - WHO CARES!?!
Joe> Because the JOB allows a man to feed his children while quixtar sucks away income unless you actually make it to a significant level in the business. Based on your own statements Tony, you would not be able to support any kids on your quixtar income.
T> that because its a Supplemental income! I don't have kids right now, but my Goal is to be Making good $$ with this by the time I do have kids!
"unless you make it to a significant level"?? The MAKE it to a significant level! Do what it takes!
Joe> Sure, but the diamonds neglect their kids at night showing the plan and on weekends when they are at functions.
T> you don't need to be with the kids 24-7, spending all DAY with them, and then buidling the business in the evening is Not going to dement the kids! And for CRYING OUT LOUD the functions are 4 weekends out of 52!! 4 weekends!! And most Diamonds Bring their kids Along!
Joe>Once kids get older, they are in school while the parents are working.
T> WHO CARES!! Who said being free of a job was just about spending time with kids?? Who the heck wouldn't want to be free of a job to spend more time with their wife, or out enjoying life?
J>Oh and Tony, what about people working the business with kids who still have a job and have to attend functions and other quixtar trainings?
T> dammit Joe, its called delayed gratification. So you take sometime away from your kids short ternm to get it back long term!!! You can still spend time with the kids on some nights and on the weekends, and the wife can still watch them at night! Build it big, get free, and then have your whole life!!
"Tony> So whats wrong with taking some time to develop a business that can allow you to retire so that you can spend MORE time & $ helping charities, or more time with your family?? Whats wrong with that??
Joe> There's nothing wrong with that and it's even commendable. The problem is that there's a retired diamond kingpin who may be doing that and thousands of IBO's "working their way up (losing money) who can't do that because their extra money is spent on tapes/cd's books and functions."
BullSh!T Joe! More GD stereotypes!! just like Scott talked about! I just gave over $100 to the Red Cross for Katrina victims, and thru my company I just pledged over $750 for the United Way and other community service events. And I'm going to be in a 10k Walk for a local charity too! So don't Tell ME that only some diamonds can do it cause other IBOs are spending every last cent on tapesCDs,etc - I'm GD tired of your bullsh!t LIES Joe!
Joe> That's good Tony, but people who are dedicated to being CORE do put in every waking hour into the business. I know, been there done that.
T> No Joe, that was YOU, and thats how people get burned out and quit! It doesn't take every waking hour to be CORE! You can be Core and still have a life.
Scott>Tony's first note continues to say "So I guess according to you guys, no one should ever strive to do anything. To have More would just be greedy, right?" which I felt was stereotyping both non-IBOs and ex-distributors. You don't have to be in the business to set goals and to strive for excellence.
Once again you just don't get it - you are misinterpreting what I'm saying!! This had Nothing to do with Ex or non-IBOs! This idiot was saying that desiring to have more is greedy! So i said, "then I guess no one should strive to do anything , else we're greedy" Do you get that??
Scott>Further down in his first note Tony writes "People with your attitude never accomplish anything! You never stive to improve yourself or anything around you. People like you don't invent new things, discover cures, win National Championships,
or achieve Anything great!" Again, this paints non-IBOs and ex-IBOs with too broad of a brush. Being negative about A/Q does not mean being negative about life
T> Once again Scot you are not reading me right!! This has nothing to DO with QX. I'm not painting ex/nonIBOs with Anyhting!! Got off of the Qx thing. I'm saying that people with the Mentality that its greedy to want more or its bad to have pride in oneself Never achieve anything great!! Thats it! It has nothing to do with Qx, it has to do with the mentality the you shouldn't strive to make more money, cause money is evil, and you shouldn't be prideful, cause thats a sin! If you think that way, you don't set goals, you don't strive to improve, you don't take pride in accomplishments, you just live a meek litle life! But I imagine the critbot who said that is also a hypocrit, cause I bet he Does want to make more money, and he is proud of thing he's accomplished. So I think he a hypocritbot!
Joe> God doesn't need our money. God can create anything he wants. Our giving of our time and money is a way for us to show God that we are giving from our hearts and that we are glorifying him and showing faith in him when we give. The amount doesn't necessarily matter, like how the poor woman's pennies meant more to God than the Pharisees wealthy gifts. This was because the poor woman gave from her heart and the Pharisees gave because they simply felt it was their duty.
T> thats all well and great Joe, God doesn't need our money, but charities DO! God is not gong to just put Millions of $$ in charites bank accounts, he does it thru us. And yes I understand the story of the poor woman who gave her last 2 pennies, and did it with the right heart, but DO not imply that ME or Diamonds giving $100's or $1000's of dollars is not with the right heart. My Diamond can also donate $10,000 to a charity and it means just as much as when the poor woman gave few pennies! Do NOT imply that the rich only do it out of duty! If you are, than you're a self-righteous prick!
And you don't have to be at every church event to be making God #1, and like we've said before, follow the principle, not the person!
Don't worry Don (and others) I haven't forgot about you, its just I've got more important stuff to do right now, be back later.
Although I could just do what Don did, restate an arguement and call it useless and then say 'if you want to know why, reply and then I'll tell you' - why not just make the argument Don!?
Tony> I DON'T CARE!!! So he's F$%#*ing cheap!!! My CEO might be a womanizing cheapskate too, am I gonna quit my job??? This guy ain't MY diamond and he ain't ME!!! So what do I care if he only gave $1000 at a function?! Who knows how much he gives to Other charities? These arguments to discredit the business are USELESS!! So theres a cheap Diamond somewhere - WHO CARES!?!
Joe> But Tony, the groups are influenced to idolize the diamonds. To be like the diamonds. Do we really want to be like this guy?
T> that because its a Supplemental income! I don't have kids right now, but my Goal is to be Making good $$ with this by the time I do have kids!
"unless you make it to a significant level"?? The MAKE it to a significant level! Do what it takes!
Joe> What income? You admitted that you normally mae a little or lose a little.
T> you don't need to be with the kids 24-7, spending all DAY with them, and then buidling the business in the evening is Not going to dement the kids! And for CRYING OUT LOUD the functions are 4 weekends out of 52!! 4 weekends!! And most Diamonds Bring their kids Along!
Joe> Tony, they sell the idea that you will be free and spend more time with your kids. Diamonds may bring some kids to functions but I understand they do not allow infants. And 4 functions are major ones right? What about the monthly local functions, the weekly group meetings and the monthly open meetings. Those all take time away from the family.
T> dammit Joe, its called delayed gratification. So you take sometime away from your kids short ternm to get it back long term!!! You can still spend time with the kids on some nights and on the weekends, and the wife can still watch them at night! Build it big, get free, and then have your whole life!!
Joe> But with the low success rate, the gratification is not delayed, it's non existent.
Tony> BullSh!T Joe! More GD stereotypes!! just like Scott talked about! I just gave over $100 to the Red Cross for Katrina victims, and thru my company I just pledged over $750 for the United Way and other community service events. And I'm going to be in a 10k Walk for a local charity too! So don't Tell ME that only some diamonds can do it cause other IBOs are spending every last cent on tapesCDs,etc - I'm GD tired of your bullsh!t LIES Joe!
Joe> Tony, you admitted yourself that you weren't really CORE, and that's why your business hadn't grown to where you want it to be (yet). If you have a group (team) with downline, and you and your team are CORE, you don't have much free time if you are building the business hard.
T> No Joe, that was YOU, and thats how people get burned out and quit! It doesn't take every waking hour to be CORE! You can be Core and still have a life.
Joe> Tony, being hard CORE with a sizable group takes up almost every waking moment. I speak from experience.
T> thats all well and great Joe, God doesn't need our money, but charities DO! God is not gong to just put Millions of $$ in charites bank accounts, he does it thru us. And yes I understand the story of the poor woman who gave her last 2 pennies, and did it with the right heart, but DO not imply that ME or Diamonds giving $100's or $1000's of dollars is not with the right heart. My Diamond can also donate $10,000 to a charity and it means just as much as when the poor woman gave few pennies! Do NOT imply that the rich only do it out of duty! If you are, than you're a self-righteous prick!
Joe> Tony, I don't claim I can read or judge anyone's heart. I never said that. I said I was at a function where EDC Mike Woods was pounding his chest about donating $1000 cash to easter seals or something. My point is why does he have to annouce what he is giving, why not just put the money in the basket and pass it around. It's like he wanted to be applauded for his deed.
Tony, really dude, calm down. It's just a debate over some issues. It's not like anyone is making personal attacks on you. Or at least I'm not making any attacks on you, just debating some issues related to the business.
Okay, my last post on this thread.
Hi Tony, I looked at your last post and I think I got your point this time. You were being critical of some of the other people who seemed to be equating setting goals with being greedy. (If I still missed the point, I'll let you have the last word.)
Assuming that is the point, I think we can agree on the importance of setting goals and to always have something that we're working towards.
Am I detecting a bit of a negative tone from Tony?
Tony,
I think we agree that some people make money in quixtar (some make a lot) and
many do not. What we do not agree on is whether people are "working their way up" or simply "losing money"
Please check out this example and let me know what you think:
Lets’s say IBO “A� sponsors 75 dedicated CORE IBO’s (Key word is they are all CORE). They all do 100PV. They all make $25 a month retail profits from customers. They all spend (as in Tony’s estimate) $112 a month on tools. These would include Kate, standing order, book of the month, local functions. (These estimates are very conservative)
IBO A has a 7600 PV group. 7600 PV = 19,000 BV (approximately) So IBO A gets
A bonus check of $4750. All 76 IBO’s in the group earn $25 retail income (a generous estimate) so that is $1900. The group income is $6,650. (The group income is $1900 retail profit and the $4750 includes all monies paid downline. Each of the 75 downline IBO's would receive their $7.50 or so for doing 100 PV. This would come out of the 7600 PV IBO's bonus)
The group made in sales profit and quixtar bonuses = $1900 + $4750 = $6650.
The group spent $8512 in tools (overhead). The net loss is $1862 each month.
Even with a conservative estimate of tools expenses and a generous estimate of retail profits, the groups loses money. Even if you factor in the $10,000 Q12 bonus for IBO A,
The group still loses money. Sure, no one will probably ever have a group like this, but it’s an example, just like how no one probably ever had a 6-4-2 business either.
So the question is whether the 75 IBO's are working their way up or are 75 IBO's losing money?
Before I address the other topics (and Yes Scott, you Finally got it) let me ask you a simple question Joe:
did IBO A start his business, and when he opened his Start-up kit, there were 75 Core IBO in the box?
I love your examples with IBO A has 10 legs with 1 leg or 8 legs with 2 legs, or 75 core, etc. etc. - the point you always skip is: that IBO A started at ZERO just like everybody else! He had to work his way up to have 8, 10, or 75 kegs!
So guess what? So will the 8, 10 or 75 IBOs on his team, if they want to have what He's got! Maybe they'll go out and get more than a measley $25 in retail. Maybe they'll go out and sponsor 8-10 legs themselves.
The plan is pretty simple, at 100pv you'll make $7.50 - sponsor 6 and at 700pv you'll make $112.50 - help them sponsor 4 and you make $945 - help them sponsor 2 and make $2600!! Add in retail profits and Anyone can make more!!
So to answer your question, the 75 Core IBOs are working their way up, as MY sponsor worked his way up from ZERO to 9000pv! The same way I'm workng my way up! Now if you wanna look at it with a negative pespective, you can say the 75 are losing money. Its up to you.
But when I had spent $50,000+ on college and didn't have a degree yet, was I losing or spending money... or was I Investing money? I guess it depends or whether you have a positive or negative perspective doesn't it?
Tony,
Ok, let's make it even more simple.
IBO signs up for $50.
IBO does 100 PV. He is excited, he decides this business is great. He's going diamond!
So IBO gets on standing order, book of the month, KATE. Etc.
IBO does 100 PV. Earns $7.50 for that
volume. IBO spent $112 on tools for the month (Tony's estimate).
This IBO took in $7.50 and spent $112 on tools. Net loss is $104.50 for that month.
Based on quixtar's numbers, only 1 in about 122 "active" IBO's ever reach the direct level.
So with 1 direct and over a hundred losing money, is that working their way up or losing money in business? And what about 5 years later when those IBO's are still losing money?
Since 1999, there's one diamond from quixtar with a 2-5 year plan.
I talked to our church pastor and he describe quixtar as "false promises". He acknowledges that some people make money, but far too many do not to make it a viable way of making money. I agree
Ah, here's the problem Tony:
Tony> The plan is pretty simple, at 100pv you'll make $7.50 - sponsor 6 and at 700pv you'll make $112.50 - help them sponsor 4 and you make $945 - help them sponsor 2 and make $2600!! Add in retail profits and Anyone can make more!!
Joe> This is what is presented to prospects.
It's made to sound pretty simple and possible. In the beginning when people start they have people they can contact, business can grow. Then the name list starts to thin out, name list shrinks, people start quitting.
Bottom line, it gets to be too much effort for teh small amount of income. Yes, some can overcome and push towards bigger pins but the vast majority cannot. That's why so many people lose money.
The reason you "put money" into your buiness is because it's YOUR BUSINESS. Is that so hard for everyone to understand? "Maybe if they'd focus on teaching how to make money instead of touchy-feely self-improvement crap and instead of that which churches are supposed to teach, then the average IBO income would be higher than $140 a month." HAH! Come on, Don. You're posting this like you actually know what IBOs do. A lot of people don't follow the proven model which is why they may not make hundreds of thousands of dollars. Plus, this is designed to make money on THE SIDE. If someone actually WANTS to develop more it then that's fine. It's funny how people really think that this is some big SCAM where big name companys like Circuit City, Office Max, Barnes & Noble, etc, put their names on the line just to dupe you! You guys make me laugh. But it's okay. You people are entitled to your opinion. We need people to bag our groceries anyways.
P.S. Tony is awesome.
Hello Danielle,
You must be into your second week just fresh back from a function.
Keep pumping your money into over-priced products and the proven system.
You will make it! Go Diamond!
Danielle:
Your claim about "partner stores" have already been addressed on this site and so I will not waste time replying to them. The same goes for the IBOs repeated compulsion to demean Quixtar's opponents. I've got only two questions for you:
Are you following "the proven model"?
How much are you making?
If Danielle's crack dealer gives her a ride to buy some groceries at Kroger, does that make him an ok guy? After all, Kroger wouldn't be involved in anything illegitimate, would they? The "partner" stores will sell to anyone with the money; they're not concerned with the scam.
The logical fallacy you've fallen for is that the time and money you waste playing your pretend business is in any way equivalent to an actual investment in a real business (vs a pyramid scheme)
The organization is mature, in other words the statistics are stable. Over 99% of participants are in loss. Over 99% historically have been in loss. Over 99% shall be in loss forever and ever amen. It's not just a snapshot in time. It's cumulative. For any of those currently in loss to get in profit there will be more than a hundred new losers added. Nothing forces this to happen other than the inherent fatal flaw of MLM in saturation.
To two significant digits, quaxtar is a BAD IDEA for 100% of the people that sign up. Good luck.
DI> First of all, promoting "goal-setting" and "self-confidence" has nothing to do with your company's support of charities.
T> Don, why did you bother typing this, no cr@p - i was just respondiong to your dum@ss comment about "is this a business or a church" because I said we promote goal-setting, self-confidence and charitable donations! Stop twisting statements!
DI>Second, Tony, all this promotion on Quixtar's part is USELESS. To see why, reply (instead of so easily ignoring as you have wont to do) to what I wrote later:
So do tell Don whysit useless? 1st want an answer to:
"Maybe if they'd focus on teaching how to make money instead of touchy-feely self-improvement crap and instead of that which churches are supposed to teach, then the average IBO income would be higher than $140 a month."?
Hows this:
We do focus on how to make money! and newsflash: self-improvement is PART of that! Call it touchy feely all you want- having a better self-image, and better people skills is a key ingredient to success! Hello? And what so only churches should be talking about charitable donations? Is that what "churches are supposed to teach"? Then once again why does MY company so adimently promote the United Way, and other Fundraising groups? There's nothing wrong with that! There's nothing wrong with people in This business promoting the idea of giving to charities or minitries! It seems You're the only one that has a problem with that.
DI>So Tony, the question is: can an average person have your "balanced life" and make good money with this business?
Maybe not MY balanced life, cause I know I watch way too much TV, haven't shown the plan in almost month! But I think someone can still have a balnced life and still build the business especially if they find the right people. I've had several people quit, I've had lots of people get started, they buy some stuff, but they never make the time to come to an Open meting and therefore aren't really building it themselves. But if everyone on my team did 100pv - I'd be close to 2000pv each month. If everyone on my team sponsored 8 like I have, there'd be over 100 IBOs on my team. If you find the right people it makes building it easier. Just because I could be doing more doesn't mean I'm not doing anything. I go to the Opens/trainings, I go to Phone team, I did a follow-up with a new guy last week, and am meeting with him today. I've got a plan scheduled for Sat. - I've got more bars to talk to. When my efforts are duplicated I'll be Platinum. But I can only work with the ones that want to work. I can't make all 16 work.
DI> The other question is: can an average person make more than minimum wage in this business? If you devote more time to recruit more people to make more money, your returns are still a function of the time you put in.
The answer to that is clearly Yes! My sponsor was a pretty average 19 year old when he got in, and now at 22, he'll tell you himself that he's nothing special. He just did some work, found some good people and is staying steady with it. Of course your returns are a function of the time you put in! Thats kinda how it works at a JOB too, isn't it? You work a little - you get paid a little. You work more then you get paid more. So yea, if you put in 2 hours a week, don't expect much. But like you said, sponsor more, develop retail more, (aka DO MORE!) then you'll get more.
Joe>it seems that the quixtar kingpins tie in the concept that quixtar is a Godly business because then they can justify any business related event as serving God and therefore reinforcing the notion that God is #1.
T> Quixtar is just a business, plain and simple, a supplier of goods and services. Now some of the people involved in Quixtar may believe in Christian principles and may be building their business to "honor and glorify" God. In that case, yes, Their business is a Godly business, and anything they do in the business is for Him. There's nothing wrong with that. If you're a true believer God should be in every aspect of your life. If you're into witchcraft, well when you build a big business, you can stand on stage and talk about that.
requiringmind>So it's OK to be a prostitute if I give all my earnings to missions and charities. My "business" would be a Godly business because I was using my profits to serve others.
T> its not the act of giving money to charity that makes anyones business a "Godly business." Its are you bringing people to God, are you giving Him the thanks and credit for your success? Not how much you give to charity.
I'm not big into the "spiritual" side of the business, but I do undrstand it, am ok with it and I respect it. I've been a believer all my life, thats how I was raised, but I could see how some peoples religious views could turn-off new people.
----------------------------
Joe> But Tony, the groups are influenced to idolize the diamonds. To be like the diamonds. Do we really want to be like this guy?
T> BS Joe, Ihaven't been influence to Idolize anyone!! Respect yes, idolize? No!
Do we want to be like him? I don't know, I don'tr know him. So he gave $1000, I think that more than most people in his group. Maybe he gave more to other charites, maybe he had already given his tithe that month, and still gave $1000. Should he have bragged about it? No, the Diamonds on my team don't brag about how much they give. I don't like to brag about it either- but when I feel like someone is publicly calling me out, or misrepresenting a party I'm affiliated with I may mention a number. But in general no I don't beat my chest saying I gave $1000!
Joe> What income? You admitted that you normally mae a little or lose a little.
T> yea Joe like you said, make a little - you know what that means - that means I make a little! And even if I never "made a little" - I'd still do it, cause down the raon, I'm gonna make a little more, and then a little more! And then I be like my sponsor and make a lot more! When I 1st started with the company I'm with now, I made exactly Half of what I make now. Gee I started out "down here" and now 5 years later, I make Twice as much!
Joe> Tony, they sell the idea that you will be free and spend more time with your kids.
T> yea Joe that the case! go emerald and Quit Your Job, and you'll see you can spend more time with your kids, or wife, or whoever!
J> Diamonds may bring some kids to functions but I understand they do not allow infants.
T> Big deal - listen to yourslef, an Infant! So you let your parents watch the baby for a weekend. I've seen people bring a babysitter or parent with them to a weekned function.
J> And 4 functions are major ones right? What about the monthly local functions, the weekly group meetings and the monthly open meetings. Those all take time away from the family.
T> Joe what is your problem? So there's an Open on Tuesday night! One night! Then Maybe once every 1-2 months they'll be a seminar/rally - again a 1 night event! then once every 3-4 months there's a weekend function. Yea, that takes away from the family - but you know what else takes away from the family? - Working 50 hours a week 52 weeks a year! Working on Saturdays and sundays - going out of town for Conference and seminars your boss tells you you have to be at or your fired!! That takes away from family too.
But if you catch the concept of developing a big business - say to the level of Emerald where you can quit your job, then you've still got Money coming in and you can control your own schedule. You can see you kids when they wake up, you can play with them in the afternoon, or be there when they get home from school, or coach the little league team, etc.
You can spend time with your wife when its sunny outside instead of 7-11pm. If thats someone's dream then I don't have a problem with it. Does it mean you should Never see your kids, no! You need to still spend time with the kids or wife, espcially on weekends. You don't need to ship them off to spend Every Possible free minute building the business.
Joe I don't even know what your point is - do you suggest every IBO QUIT the business so they Never have to miss a birthday or soccer game of their kids. So they can watch TV with their kids every night before they go to bed at 9pm? Yea thats a much better solution. See your kids M-F from 7-9pm when you get home from work and on Sat/Sun as long as you don't get called in. Or take some time away, temporarily, to get even more time with them later on.
*Talk to Larry Winters' kids, or Joe or Alan's kids - I think they're pretty happy their parents gave up sometime to have the lifestyle and amount of time they have now! I think I'll take their word for it, not yours.
Joe> Tony, you admitted yourself that you weren't really CORE, and that's why your business hadn't grown to where you want it to be (yet). If you have a group (team) with downline, and you and your team are CORE, you don't have much free time if you are building the business hard.
I said I wasn't sure if I'd say I wa Core, I pretty much AM core except I don't always show 3-5 plans each week. Other than that I am Core. And I look forward to when my team is Core too - I'd love to have 10 plans a week to show! I'd love to be driving more depth. My sponsor is building the business hard he's 16+ wide over 7500+ PV - he's literally doing something every night! And thats why he'll be retired at 25!
Scott>Hi Tony, I looked at your last post and I think I got your point this time. You were being critical of some of the other people who seemed to be equating setting goals with being greedy. Assuming that is the point, I think we can agree on the importance of setting goals and to always have something that we're working towards.
T> Exactly Scott, having a goal, a desire, the drive to have more, accomplish more, is NOT being Greedy!! Having Pride in yourself or a team, or an accomplishment is Not a sin!! But sitting on your @$$ and wasting your God-given talents; or belittling those that DO, is a sin! So I'm glad we agree on something :)
requiringmind>Am I detecting a bit of a negative tone from Tony?
T> hey bud, do me a favor... take off your left shoe. Go ahead, seriously just take off your left shoe, right now....
okay, now take that shoe-
and shove it up your @$$ - all up in your @$$
hehe!
(still)requiringmind, if you haven't figured it out yet, I don't give a Sh!t what you think and I don't take Cr@p from nobody!! Especially not some mindless little critbot like you! If I have a negative tone, or am a little harsh its because (once again) I am tired of the BS comments thrown around on this blog that are taken as truth. Does that make sense?
Come back when your IQ is above 80. Umm, noo - better make it 90.
(Gee guess I need to read "Skill With People" again. lol ;)
Tony>If I have a negative tone, or am a little harsh its because (once again) I am tired of the BS comments thrown around on this blog that are taken as truth.
TD> No, Tony, it's because you can't stand that someone else has a different opinion or POV than you. And "a little harsh" is a massive understatement.
Tony> We do focus on how to make money! and newsflash: self-improvement is PART of that! Call it touchy feely all you want- having a better self-image, and better people skills is a key ingredient to success!
DI> Do you now? Do you learn the daily ins and outs of running a business? How to properly account for your income and taxes? How to set the best pricing programs? How to find the most advantageous supplier--Oh wait you only have one supplier! Do you learn about local laws and regulations that could be advantageous or possible disadvantageous to your business? Or is the majority of your "training" self-improvement motivational crap? Sure, read a few self-help books a year if you really need it. But the majority of your education should be something substantive. Is it?
Also, what is it specifically about the Quixtar business that requires volumes and volumes of books, and boxes upon boxes of tapes and CDs (don't reply to this saying that YOU don't have boxes of tapes; I'm not talking about you but Quixtar and the tools as a whole.) Many IBO say that Quixtar is so easy, almost anyone can do it--so why all the training? For pete's sake, a college graduate can get a job as an analyst at a place like Deloitte and make $50,000 a year after a few weeks of training, but IBOs seem to need a constant supply tools to make their measly $113 per month!
T> So there's an Open on Tuesday night! One night! Then Maybe once every 1-2 months they'll be a seminar/rally - again a 1 night event! then once every 3-4 months there's a weekend function.
DI> This is exactly what I'm talking about. Quixtar seems to have more "functions," "open nights," "meetings," and "rallies," than a major company, and certainly more than a small business owner has to go to. Hell, a small business owner doesn't need to go to ANY "functions" and can still succeed if he's smart. And an IBO attends all these functions to make an average....$115 per month. The functions must not be very effective then.
Furthermore, weekend meetings in many industries are paid for BY THE COMPANY, not by the attendee. For example, when a medical company invited a friend of mine to a weekend at Ocean Reef (an exclusive S.Fla island resort) they paid for their weekend stay at the hotel and for their dinners (over $1000 for the weekend). In Quixtar, however, it's the other way around. Pathetic.
T> This business promoting the idea of giving to charities or minitries! It seems You're the only one that has a problem with that.
DI> I never said I have a problem with that. I said the primary focus of a BUSINESS should be on making money. If you choose to give to charity from your business's profits, good for you. But a business's main purpose is to make money, and not to be a source of guidance for a proper life.
Tony> But I think someone can still have a balnced life and still build the business especially if they find the right people. But if everyone on my team did 100pv - I'd be close to 2000pv each month. If everyone on my team sponsored 8 like I have, there'd be over 100 IBOs on my team. If you find the right people it makes building it easier.
DI> If, if, if, if. That's a lot of ifs, Tony. So you put in the time to recruit those IBOs, and get hardly any returns from it. But the problem is that if you double the time, and find twice as many new IBOs, there's no guarantee that the situation will be any different! All those "ifs" will still be there. And you know what the result of all those "ifs" is? An average gross income of $115 a month. Well that's you right now, Tony, average. Why do you think that you have a better chance than anyone else of beating those odds?
DI> The other question is: can an average person make more than minimum wage in this business?
T> The answer to that is clearly Yes! My sponsor was a pretty average 19 year old when he got in, and now at 22, he'll tell you himself that he's nothing special.
DI> Tony, are you refuting your own thizbiznow.com site? It says right there, in black-and-white, that the average IBO income is $115 a month. So is Quixtar lying when they say thats what the average IBO makes? Your sponsor, then, by definition, isn't the average IBO. And, furthermore, if he's making several thousand a month, he is doing so at the expense of many others who must be losing money to bring the average down to $115 per month.
Tony, if Quixtar is such a great opportunity, why is the average income so ridiculously low?
T> Thats kinda how it works at a JOB too, isn't it? You work a little - you get paid a little. You work more then you get paid more.
DI> That is very true. For a job that pays by the hour, your income is directly proportional to the time you spend working.
T> So yea, if you put in 2 hours a week, don't expect much. But like you said, sponsor more, develop retail more, (aka DO MORE!) then you'll get more.
DI> This, however, is NOT true. You do not get paid by the hour in Quixtar. Therefore, there are NO guarantees, and there is absolutely NO WAY for you to be able to be so sure that if you spend more time, you'll make your money.
Tony> Joe I don't even know what your point is - do you suggest every IBO QUIT the business so they Never have to miss a birthday or soccer game of their kids. So they can watch TV with their kids every night before they go to bed at 9pm? Yea thats a much better solution. See your kids M-F from 7-9pm when you get home from work and on Sat/Sun as long as you don't get called in. Or take some time away, temporarily, to get even more time with them later on.
Joe> Tony, I have never encouraged anyone to quit, nor have I wished for anyone to fail. My point, or my goal in being here is to inform prospects about the details of this business and if they get the information and still decide to join, I wish them well.
Tony> I said I wasn't sure if I'd say I was Core, I pretty much AM core except I don't always show 3-5 plans each week. Other than that I am Core. And I look forward to when my team is Core too - I'd love to have 10 plans a week to show! I'd love to be driving more depth. My sponsor is building the business hard he's 16+ wide over 7500+ PV - he's literally doing something every night! And thats why he'll be retired at 25!
Joe> I bet your sponsor is pretty busy working with his group, as I was when I was involved.
As for CORE, either you are or you aren't. If you do 8/9, you're not CORE. If you do 9/9, then you are. It's kinda like being pregnant. Either you are or you aren't.
At least that's how it was taught when I was in the biz. Upline always said if you miss one step, then you're not CORE and your business won't grow.
Tony, here's the thing.
Quixtar has 340,000 to maybe 380,000
IBO's registered. Based on the amount quixtar paid out in bonuses, the average IBO made $115 a month. Those are quixtar's numbers.
Now you compare quixtar to college, TKD, etc. Ok, let's see it your way.
How many people would attend college if after they graduate would earn $115 a month? How many people would open a TKD school if all they would earn is $115 a month?
So why do so many people join quixtar despite the average income being so low? Because the people who show the plan hype it up as being simple to do and they show the diamond lifestyle (the unlikely but best case scenario result). Why do so many people sign up and quit? Because it's not as simple as people think and the reality is the vast majority make nothing or lose money (the most likely scenario).
Tony says: Do you suggest every IBO QUIT the business so they Never have to miss a birthday or soccer game of their kids. So they can watch TV with their kids every night before they go to bed at 9pm? Yea thats a much better solution. See your kids M-F from 7-9pm when you get home from work...
Yeah, I'd be in favor of quitting the business if it meant being home with my kids in the evening.We all have to set limits in the family as to how many outside activites we can be involved with. I would absolutely hate leaving my kids every week for the weekly meeting, not to mention when I needed to STP. The time I have now when my kids are young is the ONLY time I will have with them while they are young.No amount of "if's" can compensate for the time I have with them. Who knows, we may even watch ome TV together. (gasp)
" ...and on Sat/Sun as long as you don't get called in... "
My vocation doesn't really involve "getting called in" very often, so that's a moot point. My vocation has clear expectations that are laid out for me and somewhat set hours. I don't have an ogre type of boss that calls me in on the weekend on a regular basement.
"Or take some time away, temporarily, to get even more time with them later on. "
The key word here is "temporarily". This statement should say 'Or take time away indefinitely to possibly get to spend more time with them later on.'
So again, the question was should an IBO quit in order to do these things? That's pretty easy for me to answer. Yes.
I should have qualified my last post. It should say " Should an IBO quit if his or her goal is to make a considerable profit in order to never miss a soccer..."
I state this because some people are in Quixtar for things other than profit, such as building self-esteem, being with other "positive" people and such. If that is why they are members and find this time valuable, then by all means, leave the kids with the sitter and head to the next function.
I was wrong about the 7 sins being in the bible, but they are still the things I believe quixtar uses to sucker you in.
No, wanting a bigger house, or more money isn't bad and you are not going to hell for being a millionaire, but how you get the money or what you do with it afterwards can put you in the handbasket. I do know that Jesus said in the bible that it is harder for a rich man to make it to heaven.
The simple fact that we have to discuss religion in a business for distributors is bad enough. No wonder it is rumored that quixtar is a cult.
The bottom line is, for every single one person who makes money in quixtar, there are a lot of people who are losing money.
Tony says they are "working their way up".
The problem is if there are always a few people making money and many "working their way up", that is a poor business opportunity.
However, when the business teaches "buy from yourself and teach others to do the same", ultimately there must be many losing money for a few to profit. This is because you will always need many people "working their way up" in order for the few to gain profits.
Imagine opening a chain of Mcdonald's. 100 stores. One store gets all the profits while the other 99 "work their way up". When it's your turn at the top, you too can get all the profits. How many people would sign up to get a franchise?
Hmmm. It seems all is quiet on the Qblog front. It's the weekend. People are out and about filling their time with activities. Could it be that we are all "debated out"?
Peopole are getting ready to watch football. I, unfortunately, have weekend duty. Besides, it is hard to debate something we both agree on. I think
I guess the debate is over. Thanks for all who participated. Now, as Dr. Laura would say, go and do the right thing.
I have a friend who's church was destroyed by a different MLM that also claimed to be 'Christian'...I can't remember which MLM now, but the pastor got involved, and started signing people up under him...Cady is right, HUGE conflict of interest.
According to my friend, many of the non-Sunday morning services turned into a bastardized blend of Bible study and a recruitment meeting, and then the preaching slowly started drifting towards 'name it and claim it'...not quite over the edge, but getting there.
Many non-participants joined different churches after trying for over a year to make the pastor see the obvious conflict of interest.
The remaining faithful, who were being financially bled dry as is inevitable with the MLM modal (sans heavy emphasis on retail sales), were not filling the coffers, and also became disgruntled as they began to realize there was little hope of actually making money, or even gaining back their 'investments'.
That church, with a previous membership of about 400, now stands empty.
Posted by: CK | September 26, 2005 2:50 PM