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August 29, 2005
Monday Reader Mail: 55
By QBlog in Reader Mail
You remember the "Mysterious Meeting" right? And who can forget the "Curiosity Approach?" This week's Reader Mail shares one man's introduction to the phenomenon that made the word "Amway" a punchline.
name: Jason
date: June 22, 2005
message: Dear Qblog, I was approached by a Quixtar "Coach" in Barnes and Noble. I was interested in what he had to say. I met with him the other day. The potential of making alot of money is romantic. But at what cost?
There was alot of flash and bravado in the counseltation. I wanted to know more, he gave me a CD to listen. I listened to it. It seems like a AMWAY pyramid. I read some of your site and I interested to know your viewpoint. What are the pros and cons of this Business. It seems fruitful but i am skeptical.Any INFO would be great.
Thanks,
JAson
My viewpoint is pretty well laid out on this blog. What I tell people is to do research, ask lots of questions and demand to see everything in writing. It's good to be skeptical.
Comments
Jason, try reading mlmlaw.blogspot.com and amquix.info as well. And pyramidschemealert.org
For pro side, come to the forum and read quixtar advocate section.
Good points there.
The Kentucky Cabbie's Guide To Identifying Amway Distributors
Every had a total stranger start talking to you about ways to make extra money?
Well if so, you have no doubt been prospected by an Amway/Quixtar distributor!
Now there is help for the common man to know when he is being prospected for the Quixtar opportunity.
http://www.amquix.info/humor/kentucky_cabbie/kentucky_cabbie.html
Jason,
This blog gives you enough information to do your due diligence, mainly because qblog allows people who have opposing views to post here as well. I highly recommend it to prospects.
I agree this blog gives both sides of the story.
I agree with 'mainly' part. Blog body, that qBlog writes is informative. lot (and LOTs) of comments are just......comments. If some comments has some good info, they become the part of blog by an 'Update'.
Like XS Margrita ;)
My suggestion to anyone interested in trying the business is do it all out for 1 year, do EVERY thing they ask of you if you are not making a profit, meaning the business covers every expense, functions, travel, tools etc. after doing it for one year, then quit. I spend over 5 years with my wife and we lost time and money
Jim,
Are you smoking CRACK! Why would you encourage someone to waste a year of thier life and all the that money just to give it a shot?!
I fail to see your logic.
I think 1 year is too long. What prospects should do is to calculate what their expenses would be for one year and what their projected sales/profit would be in that same year. Then make a decision as to whether or not the business is worth trying at all.
What people must remember is that unless you're going to retail like crazy, your success will hinge upon your ability to sponsor and retain people.
Joecool,
While I wouldordinarily agree with your approach, the big problem with it is that very few of the members of an AQMO would be willing to give you an accurate assessment of business-related expenses prior to signing you up in the business.
Look at some of the threads in the QBlog Forum where we have been trying to calculate how much money a "core" IBO spends on tools and expenses. Why would such an exercise be ncessary if the expense numbers were available before getting involved?
If the expenses were fully and accurately revealed before anyone signed up, I would agree with you.
Now, having said that, I too would discourage anyone from signing up until s/he had a pretty good idea of what would be necessary, in terms of time and money, to achieve their goals in the business. I think the information available on this site is absolutely critical in that regard. Take just the word of a recruiter without any serious research is a recipe for disaster. Ten years ago, such research would have been difficult. It no longer is.
To those considering the AmQuix business:
Take your time before signing on the dotted line. If the opportunity is so wonderful, it will not vanish tomorrow. It's YOUR time and YOUR money. Doing your homework effectively will save you both.
PW
PW, good point. I was writing that in the context that people would be lookng over the thread on this blog and making an informed decision. But in the absence of that, I agree with your post. Thanks!
Paul Kopecky (who is 23 and almost in Emerald qualification) has said that he tells new people that its gonna cost about 500 bucks a month to be "core" - including the cost of your products.
I agree with Jim, do it all out for 1 year. I didn't do that, I missed meetings, I didn't make a huge amount of calls, I didn't give my list to my sponsor, I just made calls here and there myself, I didn't show the plan 4 times a week every week. If you're gonna build it at convenience, you gotta realize its gonna take longer. If you have the drive to stick with it thats fine.
I'm straight forward with prospects, if somebody asks me how much a function, or a CD costs - I tell 'em. And I also tell them that its optional, and that I have several CDs that they can borrow from me, and that I've got materials they can use to get started.
But I disagree that there's enough to make an informed decision here. If me and like 2 others didn't post, you'd hardly Ever hear the other side, all you;d get is "my upline stole my dog, and divorce his wife, blahblah... You need to ask questions to the person who showed it to you, you need to check out the BBB, etc.
When I decided I wanted to major in business marketing & managment, I didn't ask my neighbor's 2nd cousin who dropped in HS. If you wanna be a fireman, you might want to talk to a fireman!
I don't see you in the Forum much, Tony.
If there's to be decent representation from the pro-Q faction, why do you limit yourself to the "Comments" section of the blog? WHY should IBOs be led to the conclusion that this is a "negative" website? If it's "negative," it's only because there aren't enough well-informed IBOs willing to post messages. The site, itself, is wide open to that.
Funny how "wide open" can be interpreted to mean "negative" if no one "positive" happens to show up.
Let's see you and other "positive" IBOs come into the QBlog Forum and argue effectively against the critics. There are no rules against it.
PW
Barney,
The reason I say give it a year is because I believe almost all people (probably including you) wish it could realistic, the dream of making it big with Quixtar and having the "diamond lifestyle" is so much better than most people could ever achieve in life. To go through life with the regret and question of "what if" could be worse than wasting one year.
Lastly there are people out there that make money doing this, there are people that can make a decent income in 1 year (even if it is extremely rare)
PW wrote:
"I don't see you in the Forum much, Tony."
Forget it, the forum is the major leagues. Tony wouldn't stand a chance there. He's best off sticking on the "outside".
I'll bet Jim collects tool money. Otherwise he is freebasing something.
As long as people keep trying, he'll be OK.
Good for you, Jimbo.
MikeBot, you seem to respect opposing views allowed on this blog, but when someone does it on your blog, you thresten to block them out.
You'd make a great diamond if it were attainable for someone who, on the surface, doesn't appear to be too terribly bright.
Do as I say, not as I do.
Jason,
Jason here. The real question for you is this. If you feel that you can look the other way at the masses underneath you who will struggle mightily and loose huge sums of money for you to become wealthy (which you yourself will have a slim chance of doing) vs. working an honest living and being happy and perhaps becoming wealthy (which you have a greater chance of doing) then go for it.
If you are a Christian (or not), try praying about it.
Good luck,
Jason
Rocket,
Here is how I look at it. My wife and I wasted 5 + years about $6000/year trying Quixtar I am bitter as hell I hate this business. I never made a profit.
Rocket have you ever purchased a lottery ticket? As small as the number is of people who actualy make mone in this business is, it is higher than the number that win the lottery.
I have seen people make it to Platinum in under a year, it is possible those people make money.
Maybe Rocket doesn't have any reqrets in his life of somthing he wish he had done? Maybe he does deep down regret not trying Quixtar?
Jason if you try the business make sure you do everything they suggests, but also have a time frame to make a profit as I said I recommend 1 year, if no profit by then don't keep going.
Jim,
If you do make a profit (especially doing everything they tell you), at what cost will it be? The answer statistically is that the cost is lots of people losing a lot of money. That is not ethical, moral, or anything. It is a scam at it's finest. If you want to be wealthy, pick an honest profession and work it. Run a small business on the side, enjoy life and live frugally.
Rocket,
A little attention deprived aren't we? Thats all your comments are for is to seek attention, you really don't care what the response is, just as long as you get one. You hate the fact your comments are not responded to.
Rocket,
One more question,
Are you really Jim reed in disguise(sp.?), or are just a Jim Reed Wannabe?
Jim
If I ever do play lottery (not often) it's a given that I will not recoup that $$
Same as if I hit a slot machine lounge, which I did last night. Lost money, but I expected to lose it. as you should consider it entertainment.
I would not consider a way to provide for my family a form of enterainment.
Rocket,
Let me get this right. Losing money is entertainment? I don't think it is.
I treat a slot machine lounge much like a business. I pick a particular amount to invest- say $100. I empty both front pockets. I put my investment cash into my left pocket and my winnings into my right. when (or if) I win, I recoup my investment (left) pocket first, then whatever is left over, I put in my right pocket and play on that. I pick a set amount if time I am going to be at the place and whatever amount I have left over in my right pocket, I know I can walk out ahead. If I end up investing everything in my left pocket I leave. No ifs or buts about it. I think its a bit simplistic, but thats how I feel a Quixtar business can be run too. it works.
Micheal,
The odds of getting the jackpot at a slot machine are far better than making Diamond in Quixtar.
Futher, if the slot machine is your idea of an investment, I hope you are not a public trader of any kind.
Michael> I treat a slot machine lounge much like a business. I pick a particular amount to invest- say $100. I empty both front pockets. I put my investment cash into my left pocket and my winnings into my right. when (or if) I win, I recoup my investment (left) pocket first, then whatever is left over, I put in my right pocket and play on that. I pick a set amount if time I am going to be at the place and whatever amount I have left over in my right pocket, I know I can walk out ahead. If I end up investing everything in my left pocket I leave. No ifs or buts about it. I think its a bit simplistic, but thats how I feel a Quixtar business can be run too. it works.
Joecool> Wow, the teachings don't change much over time. I heard Brad Wolgamott teach something like this back in 1997 when I was in the biz.
Why not try mugging folks in back alleys for a year, just to see how it works out. How about smoking crack? Just for a year.
Oh even better how about you try to actually help yourself out and try college for a year and learn some real skills? Or go join the peace corps for a year and ACTUALLY help people with real issues. Most anything would be a better use of time.
I could spend the next year sitting on my duff watching reality TV (that I also hate) and I would end up better off and hurt fewer folks then if I joined this perversion of a business.
Look at how the majority of people end up that try this, Depressed, Destitute and Dismayed.
Or worse yet you become Desensitized and Dismissive of reality, such as in the case of your good friend and mine Tony.
Hi all!
First post so please take it easy on me!
My daughter used to played on a local soccer team for about 5 years. A couple of years ago she decided not to play any longer. There was a dad that I talk to often while watching practices etc.. During one practice he told me he had a business opportunity he wanted to talk to me about, but I never pursued it.
About three weeks ago, I received an "out of the blue" phone call from him. He left a message telling me he had an e-commerce business opportunity he wanted to talk to me about. Knowing full well that it was probably Quixtar, I decided to call him back to see what he had to say.
After a couple of meetings and phone calls and much review of this blog, here we (my wife and I) are three weeks later as a new Quixtar Pro-Sumer. My wife was a Quixtar IBO about 4-5 years ago, but never even tried to promote the business as her and her ex-husband were on the outs. I mentioned to my up-line when it came to sign-up time that I was not ready to become an IBO. So... we are starting out as a Pro-Sumer and taking things slow.
With all the consumer affiliates associated with Quixtar (Office Max, Barnes and Noble, Circuit City, etc...) I figured why not purchase the products that I would purchase anyway and possibly get PV points to boot! Example: There are a couple of books and CD's I have wanted to purchase. Rather than going to the store to purchase them, I can purchase them through a partner store (B&N) (for at or near the same price), have them delivered to my home AND generate a bit of PV from the purchases!
I figure I can get a dozen or so people over the first couple of months to purchase products through me (as clients) and possibly generate some extra monthly income. I have read all the promos saying I could make 2K a month, but I don't expect to. I am thinking more along the lines of $150.00 - $2.00 for the first several months.
I also told my uplink that I would not be purchasing any motivational books, tapes, seminars etc... until I was ready to become an IBO. So, it cost me $48.00 to enroll as a Pro-Sumer. Not bad. I imagine I can generate at least 200 PV in my own household per month alone by purchasing ONLY products I would normally buy AND that are close to retail prices (not the HIGH priced products such as XS).
Overall I think we will make money by starting out this way rather than as an IBO. In time, if I decide I like the products and the program enough, I may become an IBO. Having clients for several months may also help to acquire them as IBOs in the future as well.
Wish us luck!
Robo
Comments?
Robo,
Welcome to the blog. If you will be just buying stuff you normally would buy and doing some retail, then chances are you could make a few extra bucks in doing so.
I would caution you on purchasing tapes and seminar tickets. It seems like these tapes/cd's and seminar tickets are what gets people into debt and the information in these tapes and seminars do not teach you about how to run or manage your quixtar business. They are more motivational in nature.
Some people do make it big in quixtar, but for every one that succeeds, there are a lot of folks who do not and end up with less money than they started with. And that's really my point because a lot of people join to make a little extra, get caught up in the "system" and end up losing money.
Hi Robo,
I agree its a tempting proposition when you first look at this business. The problems I have found deal with delving under the initial surface which we are often presented.
If you do go, go in with your eyes wide and an understanding that there is a culture of sorts you join when you become an IBO.
Your encouraged not to deviate from your uplines system as well as bombarded with an incredible amount of thought manipulation and materialistic obsession (tapes and books).
I was presented to Quix by a good friends relative, someone I admired and thought highly of. When I did some research and decided the biz was not for me, he became a whole other person, a strange sort of desperation overcame his attitude and he dismissed me as not stretching myself far enough and has not talked to me since. This is not an unusual story, and has been told in many forms on this site.
All in all this is just a caution that many, many, many people have had similar and worse experiences, both in and out of the business. Families have been ripped apart, friendships destroyed, and many self esteems shattered.
Some people view Am/Quix as a cult community of sorts. The best thing you can do is read up on the business, check statistical facts from both sides pro and critical, listen to those both IN and OUT of the business, and as you are wisely doing ask questions.
You seem intelligent and I am sure you will find the answers that works best for you and your family. Good luck to you.
I just read through what I have posted here and I want to make something clear that I feel I failed to do. If someone were to ask me for advise on this business, I would say not to do it. My wife and I lost mone and time that we will never get back. If I had a family member or friend I would STRONGLY urge them not to do it.
My point is if someone is truly interested in the smoke and mirrors they will always be attracted to this business or others like it. That is why I say if you are going to give it a shot have an exit stragey of no more than one year.
Don't forget that most traditional business's fail also.
AS for you DAWSON....I make a good 6 figure living righ now which I am leaving in less than one year to go to Medical School
Michael,
NEWSFLASH THIS JUST IN ON THE DONKEY!
Don't "invest" your mortgage payment onto the crap table.
If you play games of chance, don't spend money if you can't afford to lose it.
Run along now, webmentor.
Robo,
I'd talk to a CPA before you start your business. Tell him what you are thinking of doing and see what his/her response is.
The reason I tell you this is because business exist to profit and rebates aren't profits. You can not take money from the right hand, put it in your left and call it "profit." That's called money laundering and/or tax evasion. And if all you are doing is buying from yourself and getting rebates, you are essential taking money from one hand and putting it in the other.
As far as slot machines go, they are entertainment. I'm not good enough to make a living at the slots, but I do enjoy it. That's why when I go I usually take whatever amount of money I am willing to lose and my ID and nothing else. If I lose it, but had fun, it was good entertainment. If I won and had fun, even better.
xana,
If your going to play slots, I suggest throwing your money out the window. It's not any type of investment at all.
Joecool, I've mentioned this to rocket- I don't want to go diamond, thank you. I am just in this to make a few bucks on the side thats all. I really don't understand why all you people assumed I wanted to in the first place? I don't think I've ever mentioned that I wanted to go diamond. The very least I would like to be minimum at the direct level again.
Then I guess we can assume you won't use the "profiles of Success" when you go off recruiting again then Michael, since they are advertising something you aren't interested in?
What do the people in your group think of your goals. ie. not diamond?
How can you mentor someone to diamond without having that desire yourself?
You owe it to your group to go diamond, or get out of their way.
I still can't find what Robison asked me that I didn't answer. Care to steer me in the right direction?
I knew you could
R> How can you mentor someone to Diamond without wanting to be one yourself?
Simple, Michael has gone 7500pv before, but then took some time off and his group pv fell back down to 5000, right? But if he did it once, he can do it again. And if he can go 7500, he can teach others how to go 7500, and help Them teach others how to go 7500.
So while Michael might not want to be a Diamond himself, he could still have a guy on his team go Diamond. There's a guy at my local meeting who is not a Diamond, but has a downline Diamond!
Michael not wanting to be a Diamond isn't stopping anyone in his group from doing so!
Michael> Joecool, I've mentioned this to rocket- I don't want to go diamond, thank you. I am just in this to make a few bucks on the side thats all. I really don't understand why all you people assumed I wanted to in the first place? I don't think I've ever mentioned that I wanted to go diamond. The very least I would like to be minimum at the direct level again.
Joecool> Where did you get this. I didn't make any assumption that you wanted to go diamond. Where did I say that?
Lets become a business owner for $50.We direct traffic and build communitys online. our internet based business has more products and services than the largest walmart in the world! Several fortune 500 companys will be partners with us! We will be paid a commission based on monthly total volume.You can also retail a wide range of exclusive products. health and fitness ect. We will build our communitys in debth so everyone on our team will recieve a volume discount from 3%to25% monthly. 25% =about $20,000 in business volume. Build 3 seperate 25% communitys your making at least $100,000 per year!
$50 is not a huge investment or risk.It beats borrowing $150,000 to open a retail business in a community compeating with Box Stores.How long will it take to pay off the $150k ? How much in advertising will you spend ? The overhead and payroll? You need to get the word out and that costs money! you will also have to be open for business. will you close if the first few customers dont buy or if you have a bad month? I would rather invest $50.
I also feel the system works if you work.Listening to a tape or attending a business conference wont make you wealthy! The secret is you still have to work and work in debth duplicating the concept with strategic partners building your communitys to 25%.Dont major on the minors!
Smith> The secret is you still have to work and work in debth duplicating the concept with strategic partners building your communitys to 25%.Dont major on the minors!
Joecool> I would guess that most conventional business owners dedicate much of their time doing what it takes to succeed. (i.e. Burger King owner probably spends time bookkeeping, flipping burgers)
Question: How many quixtar businesses would succeed if the quixtar IBO's left their jobs to focus on their quixtar business?
Answer: Very few and in fact the diamonds on top of the pyramid would go broke because downline would not have money to buy products and tools.
Analysis: Therefor, it is evident that the diamonds are getting wealthy because the downline purchase products and tools. If the quixtar IBO's did enough retail sales to buy their products and tools, then the business would succeed, but this isn't the case. The downline's JOBS is what pays for the products and tools.
Robo,
Do an objective price comparison. I will submit that everything you could buy at a local store is cheaper than at Quixtar.
An another comment, if you buy things from B&N, you can not use a membership card AND quixtar. The membership card saves you 10% off of anything you buy. The PV you generate might give you a few pennies back of your purchase. The member card is much more worth it if you have one. I was faced with the decision ordering once if I get PV/BV or save 10%. I went for the 10%.
Also, are you familar with the term "Pro-Sumer" which you used a few times? It is a word made up by Bill Quain who writes "business" books for MLM's like Quixtar Motivational Organizations. In fact, if QMOs did not buy his books, they would not sell because they have no application outside of an MLM. That word is used to trick you into thinking that you are saving money. Look objectively and I would guess that you are not.
Robo:
Run far far away from this "opportunity". The $48 is just the beginning.
Things may seem easy & simple enough but you will eventually get pressured to buy the motivational materials/seminars and to spend time away from your friends and family.
Your attempts to resist this pressue will probably result with your organization questioning your commitment to succeed.
Read up on the mind control aspects of a cult. Xanadustc has mentioned it numerous times. If you see any of those characteristices, run far far away.
But in summary, I suggest you run far far away before you risk the exposure. The organization you are interested in is infamous for unscupulous recruiting and retaining efforts.
Good luck in getting out.
it is a cult! not like a cult it is one!
Smith wrote:
"Listening to a tape or attending a business conference wont make you wealthy!"
No. It won't.
It'll make your upline wealthy, because, as it has been demonstrated time after time, the products won't make you wealthy either, due to being overpriced.
X> Do an objective price comparison. I will submit that everything you could buy at a local store is cheaper than at Quixtar.
T> Well I already shot that one down months ago. I showed a George Foreman grill that was Cheaper thru Quixtar than thru Target or even Walmart!! Anyone remember that? It was like $39 thru Qx, $59 thru Target and $49 thru Walmart, and they didn't even have any in stock at the time.
Then all the critbots said "big deal, so you found 1 thing that was cheaper than Walmart". Thing is, there were others, (like my famous lawnmower) but it only takes 1 to disprove a statement like X just made.
Do you really think product price is the issue? How much can the tapes cost? How much is a college education? What does that college degree guarantee?
What business oppurtunity has a guarantee for success? What job has total security?How much is gas per gallon in your community? Keep on driving to Walmart to save 20 cents per load on detergent, tp,ect. and keep paying at the pump! Quixtar is structured with a volume discount pay scale that pays you more as you perform. Rocket, I also said DONT MAJOR ON THE MINORS! Is Quixtar a Cult? If it is I guess this website is one too. A cult of critics, quiters and failures. Again, I build this business in debth and the focus is on getting my ibos to 25%! At 25% price is not the issue. Your getting paid to use the products! Depending on structure between 1-3 thousand per month. More and more you see businesses like Cvs, Target , Creditcards ect. offering points, prizes, airmiles to spend your hard earned money with them. I will take the cash from Quixtar.
ROFL Tony,
You found a George Forman grill cheap. Congratulations! I never bought one, don't care too. Quixtar promotes on the basic level the core product lines. The others are there if you need them (check out V120 for your glorious upline's teaching on this). I will submit that every single product that you need to keep buying over and over is more expensive. I might be wrong, but please provide evidence to the contrary. I still need 2 more requests and then I will do the price comparison myself.
My arguement still stands; the reason is that if I use YOUR logic (1 product is less expensive, therefore, the costs are less expensive) then I already won because I pulled out several products that are less expensive for the same or BETTER quality.
Smith or Tony, see if you can explain this:
These are hypothetical situations, the first being a McDonald's franchise, and then the next three scenarios are quixtar IBO's. I factored in the cost of doing 100 PV as part of overhead. I know that pro quixtar folks will argue that you get products for that money spent, but since 100 PV is the target in order to "qualify" for a bonus, it is must be factored in as a business expense. Also, IBO's are encouraged to give free samples away, try new stuff, etc. Also, my estimate on the cost of being CORE was very conservative and doesn't take into account going to functions that require airfare and room/hotel.
#1 IBO owns McDonald’s. Pays franchise fee ($100K) , opens business. Expenses including employees and food supplies, etc is about $30,000 a month. These expenses allow the owner to generate about 30% profit, or about $9000 a month. So the owner spends about $30,000 a month but takes in about $39,000 a month for a profit of $9000 a month. As more customers buy, the overhead may increase but the profits also increase.
The initial franchise fee is recovered in less than a year. Total expenses including franchise fee = $460,000. Total revenue = $468,000. That equals only $8000 profit the first year. However, in the second year, you don’t pay the initial franchise fee, therefore profit for the second and subsequent years would be $108,000.
#2 Quixtar IBO. Signs up ($50?), spends about $270 a month to make 100PV, and in order to be CORE, spends about $200 a month (KATE, STO, Functions, gas) That’s $470 a month or $5,640 per year (Quixtar overhead). Doing 100 PV per month, will net you about $7 a month in “bonus� income, or about $84 a year. Additionally, this IBO did $100 in retail each month and made 30% profit, or $30, which is $360 per year. So in year one, overhead was $5690 and income was $444 (84+360). This is a net loss of $5246. In year two, the overhead would be $5640 + renewal fee ($25?) or $5665 and the income would be $444 for a net loss of $5221.
#3 Quixtar IBO Sign up $50. Same expenses as above $270 to make 100PV and $200 a month for CORE (KATE, STO, Functions, gas) ($470 a month total). This IBO however, signs up two IBO’s who do the same so those two IBO’s lose over $5000 a month like #2 above, and this IBO does 300 PV (750 BV), so the “bonus� check is $45, minus $14 (7x2) for this IBO’s two downline). So this IBO’s profit is now $31 a month, or $372 a year, plus $360 in profit from $100/month retail sales, for an income of $732 a year. Expenses were $50 sign up fee plus $5640 (100PV and CORE) = $5690. This IBO’s net loss in the first year is $4958. The second year loss would be $5640 plus renewal fee $25 = $5665 and profit $732 for a net loss of $4933.
#4 Quixtar IBO Sign up $50. Same expenses (100 PV plus CORE). $470 a month.
This IBO is unique. He/she signs up 10 IBO’s who each do 100 PV. So this IBO is at 1100 PV (an awesome 1000 PV pin winner, fired up!!!). 1100 PV = about 2500 BV, for a bonus of $300 a month, less $7 x 10 IBO’s. So this IBO makes $230 a month, plus $30 a month retail profit for $260 a month for $3120 a year in bonus and retail profit. Total expenses = $5690 and total income = $3120 for a net loss of $2570.
If you take into account that these are all ACTIVE IBO's and you remember that about half quit each year, you can safely predict that it will take a huge effort just to maintain the modest losses shown here. Also, since many IBO's don't sponsor anyone, scenario #2 is the most likely.
joecool,lets build some legs 100 in debth. lets help the new ibos find a pv pathway in products they are already consuming on a monthly basis. ibo or not
most families are consuming between 200+$400 per month.Gee Wally,even the critics spend $4000 a year on stuff! Yea Beav, they just dont GET PAID to do it! Joecool, I guess Circut City,Barnes,OutdoorBass,Office Depot partnered with Quixtar so they can be a part of this great scam on consumers? Or maybe they see something you cant !
Joecool,do you think quixtar will hit $10 billion in the next five years? Wal marts close to $300 billion . Now thats a huge cult!
Smith, great tapespeak. I will try to address all your questions.
Q:Do you really think product price is the issue?
A: Yes, otherwise, it won't sell, unless its to a group of people who have given up on thinking for themselves. I can't believe a business owner would actually believe price is not a factor.
Q: How much can the tapes cost?
A: Tapes can be created for like, less than a quarter. What you pay is SUPREMELY inflated, which is distributed to various levels upline.
Q: How much is a college education?
A: Lots, usually. Depends what you take.
Q: What does that college degree guarantee?
A: More than not having a college degree. Interestingly enough, people who are college graduates generally make more than non-college grads, as far as careers go.
Q: What business oppurtunity has a guarantee for success?
A: None, ESPECIALLY this one, since you have less than 1% chance at succeeding.
Q: What job has total security?
A: None, what did you just fall off the turnip truck yesterday? No such thing as a free lunch pal. I see how the Ambots do it. They create a completely unrealistric expectation, and allege that anything less that said unrealistic expectation is barbaric. They better hope nobody really questions how unrealistic their (haha) business is.
Q: How much is gas per gallon in your community?
A: It's sitting at a buck ten a litre right now. Expensive. If you think shipping costs everywhere aren't going to increase, you may as well stick your head back in the sand. Better yet, maybe ask your diamond if he will help his group with the shipping costs, that way more product can be moved and everyone can make more money!
Not really a question, but worthy of a response:
If it is I guess this website is one too. A cult of critics, quiters and failures.
A: You know nothing about me. Maybe I think you're a failure because you are not intelligent enough to remove yourself from this parasitic "business". Maybe I think you are a low self esteemed retard who can't believe that these nice people could be ripping you off. At least I know this much about you-You will lose money in this "business" through the purchasing of tools. You will look back on this and feel stupid for not seeing it sooner.
Is that nice to say so? Nope.
So don't call me a failure because I'm smarter than you.
Smith> joecool,lets build some legs 100 in debth. lets help the new ibos find a pv pathway in products they are already consuming on a monthly basis. ibo or not
most families are consuming between 200+$400 per month.Gee Wally,even the critics spend $4000 a year on stuff! Yea Beav, they just dont GET PAID to do it! Joecool, I guess Circut City,Barnes,OutdoorBass,Office Depot partnered with Quixtar so they can be a part of this great scam on consumers? Or maybe they see something you cant !
Joecool> Of course if you can continue to build, you can eventually make a lot of money. I've never said that no one makes money in quixtar. Obviously, there are some rich guys who were able to do that.
My point is that the average person who signs up never sponsors anyone, and about 1/2 of the folks who join end up quitiing within a year.
As you can see in my illustration, even if you sponsor 10 "active" distributors in width, you are still losing money.
You wanna ad depth? By the way, depth is spelled with a "p". You spelled it debth.
Ok, IBO sponsors 10 and each of the 10 sponsor one person. Each does 100 PV.
Now this group, including all downline has moved 2100 PV. (IBO, plus 10 personally sponsored, each with one downline).
2100 PV is about 5000 BV. 2100 PV = 15% bonus = $750. You would be paying each of your 10 downline $14 who would in turn pay their downline $7. So your net profit is now $610. Assuming you did your $100 retail and made $30 profit each month, your income is now $7680. Your expenses were about $5640. Congratulations, your business now turned a profit of 2040!
Assuming you put in 10 hours per week, you made a whopping $3.92 per hour!
Wow, no wonder you guys get fired up! Oh yeah and while you were netting $2040 for the year, your 20 downline all had business losses for the year of more than $5000 each. So your group suffered losses exceeding $100,000.
Smith, your turn to respond. I really hope you will take a stab at this.
p.s. Someone who actually sponsors 10 people width is exceptional. And what about people who quit? Chances are this group would be down to 1/2 it's size after a few months.
Smith, to address your other concerns.
First of all, I have never made any reference of quixtar being a cult. But since YOU brought it up, the workers at WalMart don't idolize Sam Walton because he built a huge business. They don't do everything he tells them and he doesn't ask for standing ovations. Now that you mention it, the Devos and Van Andel family should go and take counsel from Sam Walton, after all, he's got a bigger business and obviously knows more than the quixtar braintrust.
Secondly, circuit city, coca cola or whatever company doesn't care whether quixtar has a bad reputation or not. Quixtar has 300,000+ distributors in north america who are taught to buy from themselves and teach others to do the same. If that moves their products, they have no reason not to be partners with quixtar. However, I will point out that it's Quixtar people who point out these partnerships. I would bet money that circuit city or Coke sales reps don't say "we're partnered with quixtar" as a way to drum up business or to increase sales.
Smith, your turn, and please address my post that's above this one.
Smith has drunk his cup of kool-Aid.
Smithbot:
Your tapespeak is no match for the truth.
Your attempt to twist the facts and lead perceptions won't work here.
Have fun prospecting at the malls this weekend.....Loser.
Smith and Tony,
You two are so locked in and hard core with your core steps in Quixtar thay you must both be Platinum already.......right?
Honestly answer these two questions....
#1 how long has it been since you got your IBO number?
#2 have you made a profit yet?
Don't give me some BS line of "I have been in for 3 years, but the first 2 years I was just a prosumer" I used that lie on prospects too.
my guess is you have both been in for at least 2 years and neither of you have had one month were your income paid for your tools, books functions meetings etc.
The bottom line is you need 25% legs! the more legs at 25% the more income and profit! You all are making excuses for failing. You started a business and you failed! Quixtar is a simple concept. People make it difficult. The numbers dont lie! Losers cry! Learn to Lead 101. Its not koolaid its active8 jerkeys. J"oelcool myo[u mspellm great thanks mfor mcoirrecting my mspelling merror.
smith, would you quit if the volume in your business was growing monthly with new ibos? would you renew if you were at 25%? Would you believe me if im said my focus is on taking my newest ibo to 25%?
If price is the issue that means i should buy my wifes lingerie at walmart instead of victoria secret? now i get it! lol rocket
Now i know what df stands for. YOU DF!
Let me register you goofballs ,joecool,rf,rocket all in one leg. joecool your 3 deep counting yourself .dont buy a thing just report your monthly volume increases to this wonderful website.From sept.to next sept. I bet all of you are at 25% and pumping Ruby volume and still dont know a thing about YOUR business i helped you build .What will be LOLs is when you have to renew or you lose it.
smith wrote:
"If price is the issue that means i should buy my wifes lingerie at walmart instead of victoria secret? now i get it! lol rocket"
Nice smoke & mirrors approach by smitty here to deflect attention away from the shameful quixtar business opportunity, by putting it onto the price comparisons between two other retail outlet sources.
smith wrote:
"smith, would you quit if the volume in your business was growing monthly with new ibos? would you renew if you were at 25%? Would you believe me if im said my focus is on taking my newest ibo to 25%?"
Smitty, what are you so confused now that you're talking to yourself? LOL
He must be a great business manager. He can't even keep track of his split personality
Maybe once he realised that he would never be any sort of leader, he made people up to "lead", and was too stupid to think of a different name.
Smithbot:
We aren't buying what you are selling here!
And you wife doesn't need lingere, well, that's what she told me.........
Smith you still didn't answer my questions from my last post
"Smith and Tony,
You two are so locked in and hard core with your core steps in Quixtar thay you must both be Platinum already.......right?
Honestly answer these two questions....
#1 how long has it been since you got your IBO number?
#2 have you made a profit yet?
Don't give me some BS line of "I have been in for 3 years, but the first 2 years I was just a prosumer" I used that lie on prospects too.
my guess is you have both been in for at least 2 years and neither of you have had one month were your income paid for your tools, books functions meetings etc."
Actually Jim, I've been in for LESS than 2 years. I've had 3 months where my check more than covered my cost of tools, functions, etc. - and thats not even counting the first 7 months that I wasn't even buying any tools!!
Oh and by the way, Kristen and Dave Dusault were recognized as Diamonds this weekend. They got in a month before F.E.D. in Sept of 2000, and now in Sept of 2005, they were recognized as new Diamonds... so to my knowledge they are the 1st Qx-only Diamond, and did it in 5 years!
Next year the Winters team is gonna have a Bunch of new Diamonds! A few will be Qx-only, also.
Poorhouse Tony:
We are all anxiously awaiting your report from the president of XS.
As you promised, you said you would ask him about the marketing restrictions regarding his company and their partnership with Qx.
So where is it ???????
Smith again avoids answering my illustration. If you sponsor 10, and those 1o all sponsor one person, they all do 100 PV, you make $2040 and everyone else loses about $5000. So 20 people lose a total of about $100,000 and one person makes $2000. This doesn't even factor in the tools.
Looks like and sounds like a pyramid to me.
Tony I don't believe that to be true.
I was told that Kristen and Dave Dusault where both Platinum when they met which was years ago.
Most Diamond children join this business as soon as they are old enough, why would Kristen wait until after Quixtar was launched?
You still didn't answer my question anyway, are you PLATINUM? what pin level are you anyway? Lets see some copies of these 3 months of checks which prove you are making a profit.
joeecool, I would not sponsor 10 people on my front line . I work in two legs until they are at 25% loaded with business partners maintaining the volume and helping others to 25%. Sounds like you were a greedy ibo spinning plates with 10 legs never helping anyone build . Thats why you failed! A perfect exam ple of "microwave mentality". Joecool,I set up distribution networks for fortune500 companys that want a strong community on the internet.Try building one or two 25% communitys before going 10 wide the money will follow! "Joecool do the math on six legs doing 7500pv and 2500pv outside the six legs for 12 months in a row . dont forget the bonuses Einstien!
Jim, if i answered your two pathetic questions it would not validate your excuses for quiting and or failing in YOUR get rich quick scam you attempted on YOUR associates! Over 3 years and nothing? Jim, im sorry! the business has to be in your heart stud.
Rocket and mlm, again your MAJOR is on the MINORS! sorry your businesses failed. its hard to im agine with all that enthusiasm you duds sport. I meant dudes .Hows my spelling joecool?
smith,
Just so you know this business was in my heart, I had personal access to mentor with a Diamond whenever I wanted, I have his cell and I would call him every week if I wanted. My wife was also sold out to this business and spoke with our Diamond's wife regularly. I never missed a meeting in 5 years I had showed hundreds of plans and had reach 4000pv at one point.
This is why I am as bitter as I am I worked hard for nothing and wasted time and money.
SMITH YOU ARE PROVING MY POINT BY NOT ANSWERING MY 2 QUESTIONS....if you were making any money at all, you would be telling us all about your success. My guess in you have been in for over 2 years and you still haven't made 1000pv.
Go Eagle!! You hard charger!
.... oh by the way I am going to sit on my ass with my wife and some friends tonight and watch TV while you are out trying to contact people in the mall/bookstore.
Well jim, then you were told wrong!
They met in college! Neither were platinums! She worked for her parents, doing tools, ticket money, etc. He was actually negative at 1st. He told EDC Wayne Calendar he was being brainwashed for listening to CDs.
He ended up actually looking into what the business was and signed up. He went a year doing it "His Way" and never even hit 1000pv. He had 3 legs when he told John Crowe he wanted to quit. John told him 'go ahead and quit, I'll take your 3 legs to platinum and you'll never see a dime!'
He stayed in and started being core, 12 months later they were platinum, 2 years later Emerald, and then 1 year later new Diamonds!!
So what else are you wrong about??
lol ,jim how deep and wide was your business structure? 4000pv in one leg? 15 wide? spinning plates maybe?
Smith> joeecool, I would not sponsor 10 people on my front line . I work in two legs until they are at 25% loaded with business partners maintaining the volume and helping others to 25%. Sounds like you were a greedy ibo spinning plates with 10 legs never helping anyone build . Thats why you failed! A perfect exam ple of "microwave mentality". Joecool,I set up distribution networks for fortune500 companys that want a strong community on the internet.Try building one or two 25% communitys before going 10 wide the money will follow! "Joecool do the math on six legs doing 7500pv and 2500pv outside the six legs for 12 months in a row . dont forget the bonuses Einstien!
Joecool> Easier said than done Smith. I went from 0 PV to 4000 in 7 months. I personally sponsored 12 IBO's in that time. In our group, we were taught to sponsor personal width to increase profitability. It's easy for Smith to spout off about working two legs until they are directs, but have you accomplished it and
how long have you worked it?
I just showed an illustration of someone sponsoring 10 who all sponsored a downline and it revealed that the group leader makes very little money while the rest all lose about $5000 a year. Let's see you prove that your system works. Saying my upline said it works is not proof to me.
Tony and Smith,
You two would make good politicians, you never answer a question asked and you decieve people with what you are saying.
I dare either of you if you have a spine at all to honestly answer my 2 questions
#1 How long have you been in.
#2 What is your PV.
I doubt either of you ever reached 1000pv and both of you have been in for at least 3 years. You keep spouting out this BULL$HIT and talking to people like we are stupid when you are the 2 people on this blog that are LOSING HUNDREDS OF DOLLARS EVERY MONTH!!!
Once again Jim displays his ignorance. WELL ONCE AGAIN JIM - YOU ARE WRONG!
I've been in LESS than TWO years, and I have hit 1000pv, MORE than once!! Basically I've treated it like a hobby for over a year and still managed to sponsor 16 people and hit 1000pv. I've taken it serious but not to the level of commitment many people around me have. Which is about to change.
Once again,
Smith avoids answering my question. Hey Smith, did your upline teach you to skip college? Must be because anyone who teaches you to sponsor depth instead of width is teaching to to help his business instead of yours. You make money by sponsoring width, you build stability by building depth. However, add up the figures. You don't make much money if you have all your downline in 1 leg. I even drew out a scenario where you sponsor 10 wide and still the profit is minimal, and all yuor downline lose money. This business does not work for the vast majority of participants, add it up and see for yourself.
Jim, dont get high on your supply! sorry, you knocked the opportunity that was knocking. 4000pv ? how many of your ibos were at 1500pv,2500pv? i bet NONE! at best this business was in your head for 5 years and it was all about you! he who serves deserves .biaaach! p.s. i will answer your two questions when you tell me the truth about your business failing. its not the prices . its not the tools and seminars. come on Jim, tell the truth,what really happened? be accountable! be the example!
Smith> Jim, dont get high on your supply! sorry, you knocked the opportunity that was knocking. 4000pv ? how many of your ibos were at 1500pv,2500pv?
Joe> Well Smith, from what I can gather on this board, you haven't accompished anything near that level. And once again, you have avoided my question. If you can't do the math, you can just admit it.
joecool, my business makes money yours failed! I build 25% legs not 3 and 6% nubs! How can you have a stable monthly income without the stability first? do you think your ibos would be more focused if their volume was increasing monthly? Jerkey! my upline is joecool . he is real cool! cooljoe .coolnot!
Come on jim, what happened?
Joecool whats your next move? You and Jim should buy T-backs and move to Key West! lol
smith> joecool, my business makes money yours failed! I build 25% legs not 3 and 6% nubs! How can you have a stable monthly income without the stability first? do you think your ibos would be more focused if their volume was increasing monthly? Jerkey! my upline is joecool . he is real cool! cooljoe .coolnot!
Joecool> So are you making the claim that your business made a profit after business expenses? You claim that having a 25% leg creates stability, but that is not true when you consider the attrition rate is well over 50%. Do you know why so many people end up quitting? Because the business does not deliver what is shown in the plan.
Smith, my guess is that you are fairly new in the business. You maybe sponsored a few people, you are losing money but your upline has taught you to "fake it till you make it". You tell everyone that their business failed. That is not true, we simply chose to pursue more lucrative opportunities. If you don't believe me, try to attend a large function and try to figure out who's actually making money. Only you really know if you're making any money so you can lie to yourself but it doesn't affect my finances. I just try to point out the misconceptions here so prospects can make in informed decision about whether or not to get involved.
By the way Smith, did you ever draw out your example to see if you actually make money with one 25% leg?
By the way Smith, it's pretty obvious to me that you took your upline's advice to skip college. Now that's being teachable! :)
Tony> Oh, and I never said the average Diamond makes $1million. I've said Repeatedly like the plan shows - the average Diamond makes $150,000/year! No tools, just Qx $!
The average EDC and above Does make close to $1mil a year though.
My upline Diamond said he makes about $50,000 a month average!
Anything else?
Joecool> So an average diamond (6 directs) makes about $150K but an average EDC (9 directs) makes close to a million. Tony, you care to explain the math on that? It really doesn't make any sense. How can adding 3 more direct legs (average EDC) result in making more than 6 times more than an average diamond? Please explain this to me. Thanks.
Jocool, who said one 25% leg makes money? do your gaybutt math with one 25% leg and 10 legs all doing 100pv . Approx.300bvx10=3000x25%=$750 +personal volume with retail sales $300=$1050+4%leadership bonus of $800 to $1000 per month .oh no! you need 2500pv outside the25%leg to qualify for platinum!(6 months) If your focus is depth your saphire before you know it.Now 4% leadership bonuses in 2 25%legs +ruby volume, founders platinum ect. The bottom line is BUILD 25%LEGS! As smart as you think you are your just not qualified to work with people. At least you can type! lots and lots of money in that JOECOOOOOOL!
So Smith, since you make it sound so easy, how come no one has been able to build 6 25% legs since the inception of quixtar in north america. You also avoided answering my question as to whether or not you were able to achieve it.
My guess is that you have not and even in your example, that person with a 25% leg and doin side volume only make about $2000 a month before business expenses. I can earn that much flipping burgers.
Where did you learn math? It's still much more profitable to build wide and help those legs to drive depth. You don't see it but your upline wants you to build depth to help stabilize his own business. If not they would have you sponsor width to make you more profitable.
Tony>"Once again Jim displays his ignorance. WELL ONCE AGAIN JIM - YOU ARE WRONG!
I've been in LESS than TWO years, and I have hit 1000pv, MORE than once!! Basically I've treated it like a hobby for over a year and still managed to sponsor 16 people and hit 1000pv. I've taken it serious but not to the level of commitment many people around me have. Which is about to change."
Tony that is such bull$hit and you know it "treated it like a hobby" BULL$hit lets see a couple PV Checks. If you are so hard core you wouldn't be on this blog talking to us, this just proves that there is a seed of doubt in your BRAINWASHED MIND!
Smith>"Jim, dont get high on your supply! sorry, you knocked the opportunity that was knocking. 4000pv ? how many of your ibos were at 1500pv,2500pv? i bet NONE! at best this business was in your head for 5 years and it was all about you! he who serves deserves .biaaach! p.s. i will answer your two questions when you tell me the truth about your business failing. its not the prices . its not the tools and seminars. come on Jim, tell the truth,what really happened? be accountable! be the example"
Once again our BRAINWASHED GENIUS can't answer a simple question.
I had one leg at 1500, and 2 legs at 1000, and I had 7 legs attending fuctions, of the 2 months I went over 4000 one of them was about 5500.
The real reason I quit I already told you. I had no problem with the tools I was brainwashed just like you are right now, I still use many of the products, I love the products. I told you I left because I spent over 5 years in the business doing everything asked of me and never made money. Sure I had a few months were my bonus checks were more than expences but the amount of time money effort and work I put in to this I have done so much better on my own in shorter time with Real Estate, I made $200,000 in just over 3 years. (and I have copies of checks to prove it unlike your LIES)
so say what you want about my business failing, but I had a flash of about 6 months when things were looking good I went over 4000pv for two of them then I was back at 1500 before you know it and I made a business decision to leave.
Now that I am out of the business I realize I was brainwashed, and I see it for how bad it was.
THIS BUSINESS IS LIKE AN ABUSIVE RELATIONSHIP, THE VICTUM DOESN'T KNOW HOW BAD IT IS UNTIL THE RELATIONSHIP IS OVER.
another thing Smith is that if you want to question my "service" I obviously can't show how I served my downline but I can show how much money I give to charity and tell you about all the time I volunteer to a few different charities I work with.
See once again unlike the typical IBO I can back up everything I say with proof.
Not to mention that I already make a 6 figure income in my JOB.
another thing Smith is that if you want to question my "service" I obviously can't show how I served my downline but I can show how much money I give to charity and tell you about all the time I volunteer to a few different charities I work with.
See once again unlike the typical IBO I can back up everything I say with proof.
'joecool,you meant you can add $2000 a month to your monthly income and still flip burgers!
Joecool, Jim just said he was 10 wide and not one of his legs were producing 25%. 7 nights in a week to work in ten legs? How can you get enough momentum to keep all those legs focused? He was spinning plates! Jim even said his volume was breathing (up and down). Why? Because he had no leaders building in his legs that he left hanging! To maintain a 25% leg you need about 10 ibos(leaders) in depth maintaining volume and sponsoring new. I bet jim maybe put in 3-4 nights per week or about 6hrs per week in 10 legs. He has the checks to prove it!
Smith....
You are so fuc&ng dumb.
ANSWER MY QUESTION!!
Read what I said, I had 7 legs attending functions, I had personal assistance from my upline diamond who was working a distance group for me (this leg hit 1000 once and they are still building the business now but still haven't grown) 2 legs were women whom my wife spend most of the time with which left me with 4 legs to work one of which didn't do anything anyway
if you know so much why do you refuse to answer my question? and why do you spend so much time on this site, when I was core I wouldn't care what anyone said.
Jim i never said you were a bad person . I believe you give to charitys and that shows you care. Thats not the issue nor is your income you make in real estate! You said you decided to quit (leave).Just be accountable and blame yourself for your success and failures in life! Its not Quixtars fault. Maybe you had a bad upline giving bad advice. It just seems like your saying that it cant be done because you couldnt do it! If you stop making money in real estate or make a bad investment who wiil you blame? Will everyone have to get out of real estate? you were rolling dice and got tired of crapping out. It sounds like you had some people believing in you but you were just to wide to be successful. to bad for them!
Their upline quit on them? YOU GET WHAT YOU PICTURE!
Jim, you had no legs at 25%. you missed the first phase of the business 1)Apprenticeship leg,Build the TEAM 10 deep with the help of your support team (duplicate it) !
Jim, since you still order products from Quixtar partner store Hickory Farms has some good deals on cheese to go with your wine! I know, I still didnt answer your questions. Okay ,is not long and very happy with my monthly income and bonuses good enough? I bet not!
Why can't you admit that this awesome business has not given you a dime? You can say what you want, but you are losing money month after month encouraging others to do the same.
I think I got as good advise as is available. I got time with a guy you may have heard of his name is Bill Britt. I personally met BB 4 times one time was a small group "night owl" type of setting we spend almost an hour with less than 20 guys in the room and he spent time answering quesions from all of us and counseling with us. One thing that was always taught in his group was to bring 6 legs to functions.
....but I am sure my BRAINWASHED friend here knows so much more about this business than BB. Thats why they are changing the name to Smith World Wide....right seeing that Bill "retired"
smith I feel bad for you and Tony, you waste time and you don't see it...yet.
There will be a time when you no longer build this business and you will look back and feel exactly the way I do. I have been out of this business for almost 2 years now, it took me over 1 year to fully de-brainwash and see this business for what it is...a CULT!! I just hope you don't take as long as I did to see it.
I can't believe I just wasted my time looking at this. I had a member on my team ask about it so I figured I would take a look. Smith, Tony, get out now..don't get brainwashed by a quiter. To bad you didn't follow through Jim you might have made a leader someday, but you know the old phrase..when the going gets tough, the tough quit..or is that how it goes..ah doesn't matter. Oh and since I know you will ask. I jusst qualified as a Platinum this month I am bringing in roughly 3500 bucks a month, the business is growing like a weed..yes I have the "checks" to prove it and no I am not goiing to show them to you. PS There were a ton of new Diamond qualifiers at Diamond club this year. I also now that because my parents were there. Yes I have the checks to prove that too, but I am not showing it to you. Smith, Tony keep cracking it will happen for you. Jim, now wonder your business never made it you do such productive things with your time as writing a bitch blog. PSS I also, have several real estate projects and make good money there, again, yes I have "checks" but you are not seeing them. And by the way, I don't need a JOB because I have created multiple streams of income so that I don't need somebody to take care of me. Have fun with your bellyaching and don't bother responding because I will not waste my time coming back...off to go Emerald and beyond. !
Jere
Jere
first of all I know exactly who you are and I know some of what you are saying are lies...and I can prove it.
FYI for anyone who doesn't know this Jere isn't follow upline advice. In this business you are not suppose to pursue other sources of income until you are at least Emerald. This is not a rule but it is what all the "Mentors" teach.
also by the way Jere is making money off his downline for tapes/books. Good for you Jere your a true leader!!
jim your business looked like a big sphinincter surrounded by hemorrhoids! You thought having seven legs meant the work was over. Now it was your 7 new employees job to get you to Diamond! You and your wife(boyfriend?) seem like strange people.
You FAILED and have the checks to prove it!
Quixtar has a new award made just for you ! Founders GooseEgg. You must be 7 wide hit 4000pv and and go back to 1500pv or less with in 5 years of registration and quit.You and your boyfriend(wife?) will earn LOC enimas by anyone left in downline with pv.
"JIM, I know its spelled S P H I N C T E R !
Jim , Who is BB? group night owl? what freaks! You idiot ! The more you wine the more i see how good i have it . Met with your diamond 4 times in 5 years with 20 others? WhahahahahahahOhahahahaW!
Smith,
You don't make sense. I see why you are so excited about this cult, you are clearly uneducated, can't read and probably make minimum wage, at least it will be easy to "sponser up" it sounds like a garbage man who doesn't speak english would be sponsering up for you.
I said I met with BB (Bill Britt the most successful IBO in the history of Quixtar/Amway) 4 times. I met with my upline Diamond regularly. How much time have you spent personaly with any diamond, let alone a Founders CrownIBO
You don't see how stupid you sound you say "I see how good i have it" when I made more money in this business than you ever will and I left it to make more money doing other things. You haven't made a dime yet and you know it.
Smith, good luck hanging around Malls tonight, I will compare tax returns any day you want if you ever make more money than me I will give you $5000. I have a net worth of over $500,000 right now, I work about 35 hours/week from my home and make my own scheduel, and I am turning 30 next month
Smith, good luck hanging around Malls tonight, I will compare tax returns any day you want if you ever make more money than me I will give you $5000. I have a net worth of over $500,000 right now, I work about 35 hours/week from my home and make my own scheduel, and I am turning 30 next month
By the way smith, do you know what an uneducated person does when they know they lost a debate???
they make personal attacks against their opponent...
just like you did when you called my wife my "boyfriend"
Jim, Net worth $500,000 ? Wow! Have you made any tapes yet? Can I buy one from you? I will stop bashing your boyfriend(wife) when you stop bashing my business !Your bitter ,and deep down you know your a quitter! PS I still see how good i have it .PSS who dedided i won or lost this debate? your boyfriend?
jim, you got a bet! thats easy money ! $5000
Jim why are you defending your time spent with your diamond and crown? I thought you said they were to blame for you and your boyfriends huge 4000pv business failing. PS does your boyfriend cheat on you? something happend and your not ready to talk about it yet.
Jim> By the way smith, do you know what an uneducated person does when they know they lost a debate???
they make personal attacks against their opponent...
just like you did when you called my wife my "boyfriend"
Joecool> Jim, it's pretty typical. People come on here, they can't explain things except to say "just create 25% legs" or they explain things by saying "because my upline said so". When faced with logic, they resort to personal attacks. I have never said I hope anyone fails in their efforts. I have never said that no one makes money in quixtar, and I have not called anyone names here.
Obviously some people do make a lot of money in quixtar, but my point is that far too many people lose money for the few that make money. Overall the business
opportunity is simply not a good one.
Smith says that he simply creates 25% legs and makes money. Smith, if you did that, congratulations because it certainly is not easy. However, you still didn't answer teh question as to whether or not you actually accomplished this and if you are actually making any money.
Jim, so joecool is your wife?
Typical of smith. Can't back up any of his claims so he resorts to childish tactics to get the attention away from his lack of knowledge. I guess it must be frustrating doing all that work and not making any profits.
Smith you continue to astound me with your stupidity. You are the dumbest person I have ever tried to debate.
#1 I never "blamed" anyone for my "business failing" I never even said my business failed, I made profit UNLIKE YOU!! I said I left because I can make a lot more money doing other things
#2 I never said 4000pv is a "huge" business. all I said is it is a lot more than you will ever achieve. You will never reach 1000pv.
#3 I am not "bashing" this business I am debating it there is a difference and an smart person would see that.
#4 the attacks on my wife are off subject and once again if you were not so incredibly dumb you would see that by taking a debate to personal attacks is an admission of the fact that you already lost this debate.
smith> "...PS does your boyfriend cheat on you? something happend and your not ready to talk about it yet."
I find it hard to believe that you continue to ask "what really happened" I don't understand how you can be this stupid I told you what happened over and over.
I enjoy a good debate, but you are boring me with your stupidity I am not going to continue this much longer if you don't start to show some sign that yo made it out of 5th grade.
Joecool makes a good point, you still refuse to answer my questions about how long you have been in and what pv level you have reached. Everyone on this site answers questions when asked except IBO's
"Jim ,I asked if your wife was joecool! If you can think(say) my business never makes money (you are wrong) ,why is it childish to think your at least bisexual? Go back and look at what you say ! You owe me $5000 JERKEY!!! All you do is bash the business and make cracks at anyone who believes in it.Everything i say about your business structure is true and you have the checks to prove it!
Once again you are as dumb as dirt and I am really getting bored with you. I KNOW you havn't made a dime of profit yet. I never said it was childish (although I agree that it is) learn how to read. I said uneducated stupid people bring debates to personal attacks when they lose. I have never made a "crack at anyone who believes in this business".
Bottom line you still can't answer a couple simple questions and every time you post it is full of missquotes, lies and personal attacks you are a waste of my time, I am done with you.
smith I just remembered how dumb you are. When I said I am done with you, that means I am done with this debate and this site, I will not be back to this site ever again so go ahead and post all your lies that you want.
by the way I just had another one of my legs that are still working with my upline diamond break 1000! I will take the checks!! He has only been in for about 3 years now too, much better than you.
what about my $5000 girlyman!
Jim, You get out and stay out! take your wife joecool with ya! THIS IS MY BLOG! NEXT!!!!
Smith,
You still haven't answered any questions. It's pretty clear that you are spouting tapespeak and unable to even tell anyone if you are making any profits or if you have a 25% leg. I am also through with this thread.
You can spout off all you want, but the sad reality is you are losing money each month and will continue to do so until you quit and become a failure.
By the way, based on your grammar, it's apparent that you took upline advice to skip college. At least you're teachable.
Out.
Joecool, your Jim! BB got to you that bad? How many more names do you blog under? You owe me $5000 !!! My grammar? if i can read it so can you! Your a major of the minors! Teachable? Yea, thanks i appreciate the compliment. Do you know what DEZ are? DEZ are nuts in your mouth!! Wallow with grief little man !
I went to a meeting last night in a hotel and saw this business, I am very intrigued by this and I think I could do good with this. But after looking online I found a few sites such as this one that give me second thoughts. Does anyone know if I will be able to make money? Is it true that huge numbers of people start this business and never make money?
curious, go for it ! do not let this blog erase what you saw last night!! its a great opportunity! your questions are good ones but dont rely on this blog for the answers. this site is full of critics wallowing in excuses .they will blame everyone but themselves for not succeeding in this business!!! PS get more info. from the person who invited you to the meeting! NOT FROM HERE.
Hi smith, thanks for the input, I think I am going to try it, I havn't decided yet for sure. Most of these people sound like you say negitive critics. Why does it seam that no one wants to say what kind of money they are making? I feel like I need to see some proof before I say yes for sure. I am going to meet with the guy who brought me to the meeting later this week to get some questions answered. I may ask him what kind of success he has had.
Hello Mike, my name is Jessica, I am very familar with this "business" I would suggest looking for another way of making money. A couple things most people don't know when they start this business (including my ex-fiance and myself) First of all the person who introduced you to this more than likely exagerated a few thing such as how much money he/she is making, and they probably exagerated how much you can/will make. Another thing they don't ever tell you is that most of the money made in this business is made off the tools and books you are pressured into buying. There is a very large profit made by the sale of these tools, more money is made off the tools than the business itself in many cases. The last thing they don't tell you is how it can destroy many relationships in your life. They teach you to shut out anyone who doesn't support you and your business. My ex-fiance and I started this business when we were dating, after two years of loseing at least 3-4 thousand dollars a year 2 years in a row I started to question the business. My fiance was encouraged to continure the business without my support. This didn't last long and after a few months of fighting it was clear that I was number 2 in his life to this business and we broke up. We also lost a few friendships during our time in the business.
Hey Mike, you can make money in this business as long as your part of a good team that wants to help you build it. you need to learn how to build 25% legs if you want a stable income! The business is NOT about the tools (tapes ect.) they are optional! Jessica is blaming the business for her marriage failing. I think she means the business didnt work because her marriage was failing! Whould you want build a business with a couple that never got along? That sounds like fun. lol. Have fun and go for it!
Wow Smith you sound very defensive! How would I know if I am on a "good team" or not? Smith is what Jessica says about destroying relationships not true? The things that I am scared about are that so many people say similar things about how bad it can be. I keep hearing about tapes what is the story with the tapes? I found a Dateline NBC show online and it talked about diamonds making more than half of their money off tapes. What if I choose not to buy tapes?
Jessica,
I am sorry to hear about your relationship breaking up. That is sad, I have a girlfriend whom I love and I know I would not let this business tear us apart if I do do it. I thought that was very rude of Smith to blame your relationship for the business not working. But I am curious as to how doing a business can hurt relationships?
It appears there are
Hi Mike,
I appreciate your simpathy over my break up. Jerk's like Smith show part of why relationships are lost. The business encourages this type of mean spirited dislike for anyone who doesn't do this business. Smith imediately resorts to blaming my relationship for the business not working. That is how they do it, it is never a problem with the business, it is your fault. Just look back at some of the word track's here people like Smith always say you did something wrong if you didn't stay in this business for life.
The main reason relationships fail is that they teach you to but the business first, above everything, and I mean everything. One guy was praised becasue he came out to a weekly meeting while his wife was in labor in the hospital. He said that the doctor didn't expect the baby to be born until the morning. There is also a huge time commitment with weekly meetings 4 weekend seminars per year and all the time "contacting" and meeting with people. Try to hold down a 40 hour/week job and put the time into the business and still have time for a relationship as your third priority. Not to mention you are not suppose to go on vacation, start a family, move or change jobs, because these things are "distractions". They also encourage you to not spend time with anyone in the business.
Basically it is a cult mentality.
Smith,
how nice of you to cast judgement on me and my relationship and insult me without ever knowing me. I was never married, I was engaged. We were together for 6 years, and we didn't fight when we were in the cult we fought only about the cult after I stopped doing it and he kept going.
Mike,
I just reread my post at the end of my second paragraph I ment to say they don't want you to spend time with anyone NOT in the business, I mss typed
Hi Mike, and welcome to the blog.
You are right, there are a lot of critics here but many of us speak from experience. I was in the business and I had "achieved" what was considered a pretty high level of success. At that point I was not making much of a profit.
You should do more research and ask more questions. For example, if the person who showed you the plan said "buy from yourself and teach others to do the same", you should ask where the bonuses come from? In other words, how does a business make money by self consumption instead of paying customers.
When someone invites you to get into business with them, you have every right o ask for proof of income claims. The person who wants to sponsor you should be able to show you what they made on profit/loss.
Sure, in the beginning it might take time to build up the business, but is there a plan to make money other than by signing up people?
People do make money off of tools. Yes, the experience and knowledge is worth something, but if you research enough, you will find that more money is made off the tools by the "diamonds" than money from quixtar.
I wish you well in whatever you decide.
By the way, "smith" is calling us the negative ones, but if you scroll up, you will see that it is smith who is doing all the name calling when we are simply presenting facts.
Thanks Jessica and Joecool I appreciate the warnings. I do see how Smith does a lot of name calling that turns me off from this business.
I did meet with the guy who invited me to the meeting last Tuesday he said some good things, I am still torn as to how I feel about this business.
I told him I will get started but I want to start slow, and not buy tapes at first. He basically said I would be wasting my time if I wasn't willing to committ to the business and buy tapes. He said I would decrease my chances of making money.
mike, yes i do defend this business and yes the re mark towards jessica was harsh(rude).sorry but what she and joecool say about this business does NOT represent my business . PV/BV is how i get paid and i am accountable for how much! so if my business is not growing or making money i cant blame anyone but myself! the performance bonus schedule is the same every month and you get paid ON PERFORMANCE. i feel when you register you become a business owner and you have to be ACCOUNTABLE the success and failures in YOUR BUSINESS! i did not know jessica was in a cult. what does that have to do with the quixtar business? as far as joecool goes you can scroll up and read who the rude one is ! mike, i have friends in and out of the business and i make the final decisions for my business ! i dont always do what "THEY" say. I LEAD BY EXAMPLE AND HAVE FUN DOING IT!
mike, it does not sound like your on a good team if the focus is selling you tapes ! "THEY"lol should be helping you get your team 10 deep and giving(lending) you a few CDs to listen to in the process! remember purchasing tools for YOUR BUSINESS is optional.
Smith I like what you have to say I thank you for your input.
But I have to be honest with you I feel from reading back that I agree with what Jim said a while ago, you keep making personal attacks, I think most people here are talking about personal experiences.
Smith what "team" are you with? how do I know if I am on a good team or not? do you not buy tapes? Do they not ask you to buy them? I think the idea of the tapes make a lot of sense I mean you need knowledge and training in any business, but it does seam odd that everyone keeps saying people make so much money off the tapes.
One thing the guy I met said when I asked him about how successful he has been is that my success has nothing to do with anyone else, I believe that, but I still don't understand why NO ONE will give a clear answer of how much money they make and how long they have been in business. Like Joecool said I think that is a fair and question to ask if I am getting in business with someone. Smith will you answer?
Smith another thing is that I don't have any business experience at all, I am a school teacher. I wouldn't trust myself to make the right choices all the time, I would need a mentor to rely on, you said you don' t always do what they say, I wouldn't be able to do that I don't think.
Mike,
Don't bother to ask Smith or anyone in the business to give you a clear picture of what they make, just look at the literature they give out it says something to the effect of the average income of an IBO is $110/month or somthing like that, look at the literature they gave you I am sure it is on there.
I know it sounds wierd and it is, but the business is like a cult in many ways. I heard this said when I was still doing the business and I blew it off exactly the same way Smith does now, I have now sat back and evaluated it based on research I have done on cults and although there it is not based on religion first, it does qualify as a cult.
I think you will be safe with the knowledge you have to try this business if you still want to. Just keep this stuff in mind. The problem is that people like my fiance and Smith spend year and thousands of dollars trying to build this and never succeed and more than likely never will. Predetermine a time frame of making a profit and don't allow yourself to go past that point.
Thanks to all of you, I think I will pass on this "business" it just seams like the people involved are hiding something. There are to many simple questions that don't get answered or explained fully.
Mike, maybe your Jim? If not, with all do respect take jessicas advice and look for another way of making money! good luck jim(i mean mike)
Mike,
Just keep doing your research. If you decide to sign up now or a week later, the opportunity will still be there for you. It's better to get some facts before signing up. If you opened a conventional business, I'm sure you would research it to be resonably certain that you will succeed. And you do have every right to ask people to verify profits/losses if they are inviting you to join their business. If you check carefully, you will find that the average income (as posted by quixtar) is about $115 per month. Therefore, for every millionaire, there are 8695 people not making any money. That being said, there are some successful people in quixtar who do make money.
The question is whether you will be one of the special people who can become a diamond.
You did notice that the person contacting you is trying to tell you that you cannot succeed without the tools? The tools are a big source of income for the diamonds so if you decide to join, I hope you make an informed decision.
Good luck with whatever you decide. You can message me on the forum if you have any more questions.
Smith, what do you mean maybe I am Jim?
With all do respect...I think your arogant and rude to people and I would never want to be in business with someone like you.
Joecool thanks for the advice, I think I have had enough unanswered questions to decide not to do this
ditto mike. you would be high maintenance and you seem kind of "whimpy". People like you joecool jim (you) jessica need proof because you lack vision ! i find it quite amusing that people will blame others for their failures in life! joolcool and jessica waste ti me bashing the system instead of fixing it! they have all the answers so why cant they come up with a system that works for them ? Quixtar didnt work because they didnt work! yes ,they have the checks to prove it!
Mike> Smith, what do you mean maybe I am Jim?
With all do respect...I think your arogant and rude to people and I would never want to be in business with someone like you.
Joecool> Smith, this is why you will not be able to create 25% legs.
Mike,
Whatever endeavor you choose for the future I wish you well. Isn't it humorous how smith is nice when he's trying to convince you to sign up and then you decide you may not want to sign up then smith does the jekyl and hyde routine and
starts name calling. That's why I don't believe smith will have a successful business. If it's all about people, you need to treat people with respect in order to succeed.
I am so glad I came on this bloger, I learned more from Mike's rude remarks than anything else.
Mike Joecool was right you are very very dumb, you don't even make sense. Why do I lack vision because I don't want to get involved in a business that every time I turn around someone says the same bad things over and over about it? I think you would have to be really dumb to invest time and money into something, when you can't get simple questions answered and no one seams willing to offer proof. Don't you see how stupid you sound, if this is so great why does it seam that no one is making any money?
For the reccord I did have vision I did commit to this business with my fiance. I didn't blame others for my "failure" my relationship was ruined because of this cult called Quixtar. How many years of losing money will it take for you to realize you are wasting time and money?
jim or mike ,who are you? are you talking to yourself now? your wacked dude!
joecool ,whats even more humorous is i have hit 25% more than you have hit 12% ! Yes I have the checks to prove it . you want details? no! yea joe mike, jessica culty i am dumb. dumb enough to get rich building this business ! your personal experiance has nothing to do with the quixtar business! it has to do with PEOPLE!!! its a people business. you closed your business because you couldnt deal with the people in your system!(excuse #1). quixtar is a easy business! people like you guys make it diffiCULT!!
Ok smith, so send a copy of your checks to Qblog and put your money where your mouth is. I'll be waiting.
And as far as I know, you don't get rich in a one legged business.
Oh and smith, you also do not succeed by spouting off venom like you have on this thread.
smith, you still there? Send a copy of your check to Qblog yet? What's that? You say your dog ate the copy of your check?
for the record jessica,you got what you pictured! i cant answer your question because i have made money every year and wasted no time doing it!
lol joecool send YOU a copy? Im not that dumb! you people are "animals".
joecool this thread is not my world! its YOURS!!!
smith> lol joecool send YOU a copy?
Joe> smith, thanks for proving my point that you haven't made any money in quixtar.
lets say i prove it joe. then what?
smith, you prove it, I will congratulate you on this board.
I'm not holding my breath though.
come on joe hold your breath!
Just like I suspected, smith can't prove anything.
Jason is a critic in the making. I can just feel it.
Posted by: mlmscam | August 29, 2005 3:06 PM