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July 2, 2005
QBlog Toons - Before And After
By QBlog in Humor
Comments
I bought into the Quixtar program a few days ago . . . and I have alrerady sent my letter of resignation and request for a refund to their headquaters. I think that what Quixtar is doing to people is extremely HOMOSEXUAL and unethical. I'm glad I did some research while in the process of signing up. I'm also angry that they do not put inofrmation on the website concerning how to get your refund (I had to call their gay ass office to get that info.
John, while I completely agree with your decision to quit the business so soon after signing up and your anger about the barriers put up by the corporation making it so difficult to obtain a refund, neither the business nor the motivational groups have anything to do with homosexuality. They'll be the first to tell you that.
And I suspect tht most gay people would have nothing to do with the business when given all the facts.
So one has no relation to the other.
PW
After sitting through a 61/2 hour night session with your upline.
Before and after Quixtar, LOL
Actually, its much more fun after Quixtar. Well it takes some time to get over it, specially if you are in some abusive LOS e.g. that of Vishal Jayne.
I thought it was a picture of what happens after you eat Aunt Elsie's "special" congealed salad! You know the one... with angelfood cake and green beans all in a rather "decorative" mouldy... er.. mold.
If something congeals in my refrigerator, I throw it away!
Ima
....any AMO function.
Qblog,
I know I know, It's what the amquix critics do after hearing a question posed by the IBO's.
Like the question,
"How many Amway only Diamonds were there in 2004-2005 and what was Amway's revenue reported for last year?"
NO critic has answered yet and they turn green in the face when they are posed with a REAL question.
:)
Well Michael, when did you ask that question?
I don't do Quixtar, you do. Quixtar goes up or down, doesn't really matter to me.
2nd, amway does not operate in North America, so I'm really not interested in it.
In India, it's kinda stalled. China is interesting. Anyway, any new market, an MLM experience some initial growth. So lets see!
Left picture: Michael asking his questions, hoping everyone gets so deeply involved in his company's doing that they can't help but be envious of what he does.
Right picture: Michael after realizing that nobody outside of his small Quixtar-fixated circle really cares or even WANTS to know.
Mikey, are you in Amway or Quixtar?
Would you not want there to be more Quixtar only diamonds?
Or, at the risk of sounding sarcastic, do you just want what your upline says you should want?
How many Quixtar ONLY diamonds in the past 5 years.
If the only answer is zero (to the best of my kowledge it is), then why is it purported to be a 2-5 year plan?
Because nobody that has joined in the past 5 years has gone diamond yet, dude.
rocket,
The numbers are not zero, lawdawg answered that one at 31 quixtar only diamonds.
Also, the critics are leading us to believe quixtar/Amway is one in the same, why not report on the Amway numbers too? Thats all I ask. Also I am asking the critics to quit skewing the numbers. Which you are doing so well at.
Imran, I've asked for the numbers about 5 times now.
Michael,
The point of asking "Quixtar-only" has nothing to do with Quixtar. It's about time. Just like a light year is really a measurement of distance, the Quixtar-only Diamonds is a measurement of how long it takes to reach the "success" that's marketed to the world.
A lot of people who got into Quixtar were told about the 2-5 year plan. Well, it's now been 6 years and there's maybe one or two new Diamondships that developed within that timeframe.
The reality is that virtually nobody achieves Diamond and most of those that do, take decades to get there. And furthermore, most of those who get Diamond status quickly lose it and therefore some question the number of truly qualified Diamonds pops up. Does your upline Diamond re-qualify every month? Every quarter? Every year? Chances are he doesn't.
Thanks QBlog, it is precisely the point.
Michael, can you name one of the Quixtar only diamonds?
By that, someone who was in (In North America) for less than 6 years, and is now a diamond?
Pretty please. With sugar on top.
qblog,
You have a point, and my question to you is, how many Amway only Diamonds were there that achieved Diamondship in 2-5 years?
Qblog, I admit, I honestly DON'T know how many quixtar only diamonds there are, big deal? what does that prove? Just because I don't know doesn't mean they don't exist, does it? Am I the only IBO who would know? Wouldn't the corporation know? Have you contacted the quixtar corporation directly?
I ask you in return, how many Amway only Diamonds were there in 2004- 2005? What was Amways revenue in 2004-2005?
Honestly, you critics think its unacceptable for us IBO's to skew the numbers, why do you critics continue to skew them? I don't want any more excuses, I want the facts.
Also,
Qblog,
My upline Diamond DOES requalify every year, he was also an Amway Diamond. He's been in it for 25 years.
"Qblog, I admit, I honestly DON'T know how many quixtar only diamonds there are, big deal? what does that prove?"
My unfortunate friend, it proves that you have no proof that the 2-5 year plan works.
Neither does anyone else in your ilk.
Pretty tough to back up all those claims when you have nobody recent as an example. Perhaps you should say that this is about a 10 year or so plan. That would be more accurate.
It does matter, Mikebot. Just like the facts.
Well, the lawdawg 31 Diamonds were including all diamonds, including old timers, IBOAI 20 kingpins etc.
Regarding the Amway diamonds, Amway North America became Quixtar, and now Amway operates outside North America. And I've told u before, I really don't care how much diamonds it has. I'm interested only in what's happening in North America.
And what numbers am I skewing? My answer is don't know don't care. I am more interested in the cult here.
You are the one doing Quixtar business. You should know ;) No?
Excuse me if I repeat myself somewhat, but we have to keep reiterating the fundamentals (eg TPIN):
When we compare and equate Quaxtar and scAmway North America, we do so because they ARE the same thing. Despite the "adjustments" made to the ordering and delivery methods, and the radical name change, there is continuity of product lines, compensation scheme, lines of sponsorship, and the parasitic MO pyramid. It is a mature organization which has approached its asymptotes; ie, its statistics are stable. We have 40+ years of data and experience from which to draw conclusions, and those conclusions are not favorable.
We don't consider scAmway "the rest of the world" because those organizations are not yet stable. Those comparisons really are irrelevant. It saddens me that all these people who grew up being taught that capitalism is evil and Americans are the "Great Satan" or whatever, have their first taste of American capitalism by being ripped off in a pyramid scam.
Michael (or Tony, or M&M) (and please excuse me if this has been answered previously): What is YOUR structure? YOUR pin level? YOUR profit AFTER expenses (ie schedule C)? Do you retail? Do you encourage your downline (if any) to retail? I'm not interested in checks from some distant upline, or what someone has TOLD you (hearsay is inadmissable, don't you know); there's no telling what expenses they may have incurred or what their net was for a given year. That's just a distraction, a misdirection. What is YOUR PERSONAL BASIS for the assertions that YOU MAKE? Edify (in the conventional sense of the word) me. Get yourself some credibility, eh? All it takes is some honesty, but make sure you're honest with yourself first.
bystander,
Again you critics avoid my question, sheesh.
How hard is it to answer one simple question? What were Amway diamonds for 2004- 2005, and what was their revenue?
I've given you my pin level, my earnings, blah blah blah, now its your time to shine and give me the data I requested! If your going to try and tell me its not the same, that BS! You have JUST contradicted yourselves! Amway is Amway reguardless of what territory.If an IBO came up with a lame excuse like you did, you'd be harping all over us telling us that its just tapespeak, blah blah blah- now you guys are the ones using tapespeak! This rhetoric is insane!
Michael asks:
"How many Amway only Diamonds were there in 2004-2005 and what was Amway's revenue reported for last year?"
I (and many in the anti-AmQuix camp) reply:
We're not in the position to know this, neither do we particularly care about the answer to that question. We're more concerned about the Quixtar diamonds, simply because they're the ones who would point to us our chances at success. Amway has been around for over 45 years, "Quixtar" has "existed" for five-coming-on-six years.
We already know about the so-called stability of the company. I'd be more interested about my possibility for advance. And not in the "The Sky Is The Limit" pie-in-the-sky I've heard for years. We've all heard that. I heard that in the eighties -- right down to the "We'll be expanding like mad in the next five years and filling out the market, so go out and recruit." line.
In short: your question makes no sense, has no basis in the real world, and probably has no pertinent answer.
don (and all the rest)
You guys really operate on set of double standards here to make it look bad for us IBO's. You want us IBO's to answer your questions all the time and if we say "we don't know" you can go off on us. Again, you bait us so you can rip us to shreds.
You DON'T want to tell me the Amway only numbers because you know it'll contradict everything you guys talk about having Amway/quixtar at zero growth. Again skewing the numbers.
Don, Your quote,
"In short: your question makes no sense, has no basis in the real world, and probably has no pertinent answer." Is an extremely laughable response. If an IBO responded that way, you would have ripped us to shreds.
Let me ask you this, If the 2-5 year plan was stable in the Amway corporation (and still is) why can't it be in the quixtar corporation? That is the basis of my question, "how many Amway only diamonds were there last year?"
I have another question to add,
"How many Amway only Diamonds go diamond in 2 to 5 years in the rest of the world in 2004-2005?"
I care about these responses because you guys continue to group amway/quixtar.
Miachael> If the 2-5 year plan was stable in the Amway corporation (and still is) why can't it be in the quixtar corporation?
Imran> Yeah...why? because North american market is saturated and others are not yet?
I dont want to tell Amway numbers because I really don't know! Amway means rest of the world!
OR...if the numbers are better, could it be because rest of the world is more jesus loving, freedom wanting, fired up ppl :D I like it ;)
Michael> You guys really operate on set of double standards here to make it look bad for us IBO's. You want us IBO's to answer your questions all the time and if we say "we don't know" you can go off on us.
Imran> Who is the IBO here?
Plus no body is forcing u or any thing or are they? Ppl just ask question. If some one answers, great, if not, than not. What's the big deal to get so upset about?
All right then. Far be it for me to rip somebody to shreds.
Who has made it to the diamond level within 5 years lately?
Who indeed. It's not a baiting question. If it's hard to answer, you SHOULD wonder why.
Lawdawg was wrong.
According to his reasoning there would be only 10 at EDC or above. I know for a fact that would not be true. Where does he pull the number for total number of distributors (for 2001)? From a corporate PR piece?? He is working with a questionable number unless he is contacting the corporate legal dept and obtaining official numbers. I have heard the number of distributors through the years range from 350,000 to 750,000 or more. What is interesting about the pdf piece is what you are not being told.
Furthermore, go back and read the statement on that pdf. It clearly states the percentages are based on number of distributors on Direct Fulfillment for 2001. Well guess what? Worldwide was not on Direct Fulfillment at that time! Therefore the number you are multiplying against must be much lower! Don't forget to deduct any other lines which were not on DF. Obviously you will come up with a figure for an even LOWER number of diamonds, directs, EDC, etc. Accordingly you must adjust your number of diamonds downward.
Well we can start off and name the big pins, Yager, Britt, Puryear, P. Miller, G. Duncan, B. Duncan, T. Nelson, Wolgamott.... and others I am sure no one will dispute their EDC level at that time (2000-2001). You will surely come up with more than 10 (and I know this, excuse me). But as I said, it would have to be much less than 10 due to disqualification of Worldwide and some others in the math.
However.
Worldwide runs diamond numbers consistently (since Jack's group broke off) from about 21-28 every year with about 20 of them requalifying consistently. No diamonship in Worldwide? No Management Team. No Profile of Success. Again, I know the numbers on this. The numbers may then work (about 25-30 or whatever diamonds by doing the math) PLUS Worldwide diamonds, about 20-28, for a total of 45 to maybe 60 diamonds.
One other point to consider. The wording is unclear about what "achieve" means on that document. I tend to think it is those who ACHIEVE that level during the fiscal year, not those who remain the same pin year to year. Why? What is the annual ACHIEVE magazine issue featuring "Achievers" have? Not the people who qualify year after year but the ones who ACHIEVED Platinum, Emerald, Diamond or whatever for that year. Certainly not someone who slid from 10 direct legs to 7! Therefore you really cannot call someone that like someone who "ACHIEVED" that level as defined in the document.
The numbers then which include those who achieved status newly for the fiscal year, by this definition, would also be workable under the math.
"bystander,
Again you critics avoid my question, sheesh.
How hard is it to answer one simple question? What were Amway diamonds for 2004- 2005, and what was their revenue?"<<< Michael
I'm not dodging the question, nor are any of the other critics that I know of. I think that the answer really needs to come from Alticor, but unfortunately, the owners of Alticor (and Quixtar and Amway) have traditionally been tight-lipped about their privately held corporation.
The business magazines have occasionally tried to dig into the corporation, but their is very little public information available outside of Amway Asia Pacific, which was at one point (and perhaps still is) a publically-traded entity.
On a personal note - if I had a privately held organization as profitable as Alticor, I wouldn't want my business "on the street" either. That's one of the benefits of not wanting to/ having to go public. The paradox is, and I think that somebody else said it in another post, that if my corporation was creating as much success for people as I claim, and was a great deal for new participants, you would think that I would be very open and honest about all of my successes.
You know, transparant.
Where's the downside?
Maybe Michael should ask:
How many diamonds came about in the last 6 years WITHOUT Quixtar.
Anyone?
Props on your last post, emminemm. No vitriol, no cursing, just the truth as you know and believe it. Good job, I like your reasoning.
In the (in)famous words of Rodney King, "can't we all just get along?
Well done.
Maybe Rocket should ask:
Who cares?
Anyone?
>>MICHAEL SAYS: Qblog, I admit, I honestly DON'T know how many quixtar only diamonds there are, big deal? what does that prove? Just because I don't know doesn't mean they don't exist, does it? Am I the only IBO who would know? Wouldn't the corporation know? Have you contacted the quixtar corporation directly?
Michael,
It doesn't prove anything but it provides a glimpse into your business and how it's marketed. Additionally, just because you don't know doesn't mean they do exist either. Ignorance proves nothing, but looking at trends gives a good indication of details when hard facts are absent.
One trend is the willingness of IBOs and the Corporation to promote the number of new Diamonds to support the fabled "2-5 year" mentality. That they don't mention that those new Diamonds are "new to the business" (got introduced after Quixtar began) indicates that there are very few Diamonds who have achieved that status within that timeframe.
I've never said there aren't, just asked if there are and never got an answer except for one couple that I can't recall the name of but I can find it in the Forum somewhere. Maybe there are dozens, or hundreds or thousands. Who knows? The point is that I don't know. The Corporation isn't publicizing it and none of the IBOs (who should know more than anyone else) seem to know either.
Here's one last example. I've asked to see a copy of the TEAM tool money contract. I've never seen one nor have I ever heard testimony from anyone in TEAM who has seen one. Does that mean it doesn't exist? Of course not. But the more time that goes by without ever seeing or hearing of one the more I'm likely to conclude that there is no tool money contract.
Michael, do you tell prospects that this will take 10 years to become successful at, as well as the fact that you MUST retail? Or do you go with the good old tried and true 2-5 year plan?
If so, you are being deceptive, based on your own comments of not knowing how many have made it in the past 5 years.
I understand that it may be difficult to market a sucky business, but lying about what it can do for people only compounds the resentment. I hope you're also not using the "Profiles of Success" when you are showing the plan either. It is forbidden.
Don't get mad at me, get mad at the facts. Your new desk looks nice by the way.
WOW! 30 PV! Good for you! You're well on your way to retirement now.
Dream Big, and have a great day!
rocket,
Thanks for the compliment on the desk- it was a heavy sucker!!!
As far as me getting mad at you, far from it. I am just stating a question to the critics that none are willing to answer.
Qblog,
I see your points about if it(quixtar only diamonds) exists, but if it does would you be willing to publish it? I am going to make an effort this week to get into contact with quixtar to find out if there are indeed quixtar only Diamonds. If I prove that it DOES exist, then you'll be willing to provide me with the Amway only Revenue/Diamond count I asked for which you critics seem to avoid.
I don't get it, Michael, so I'm going to raise my voice, in hopes that you can hear me:
THE NUMBERS FOR AMWAY ONLY DIAMOND COUNT AND REVENUE MUST COME FROM AMWAY OR ALTICOR!!!
I DON'T KNOW WHY YOU THINK THAT YOU ARE "PROVING ANYTHING" BY ASKING AN IRRELEVENT AND ESSENTIALLY UNANSWERABLE QUESTION.
AS NON-PARTICIPANTS IN A PRIVATELY HELD CORPORATION WE ARE NOT IN A POSITION TO GET FINANCIAL NUMBERS THAT THE CORPORATION DOES NOT WANT, OR MAKE AVAILABLE FOR RELEASE!
IS THIS NOW CLEAR?
It's just getting stupid, Michael. Why continue to hold yourself up to ridicule?
Thank you. End of rant.
FYI: Want to know how to quickly annoy the guy who runs this blog?
TYPE IN ALL CAPS.
:o)
Has everybody seen that great new tool wall paper on amquix.com.
Man, thats awesome stuff. Like my upline diamond always you use to say "There is geat Value in the tools"
i see Michael is still dodging the first question by demanding an answer to a different and irrelevant one, and refusing to distinguish the difference between scAmway NA/Quaxtar and scAmway "RotW". About as expected.
Here it is: Quaxtar IS THE SAME THING as scAmway NORTH AMERICA, and it's scAmway "Everywhere else" which is the new thing, and not part of the question. We're not trying to have it both ways; you're drawing false distinctions for a smokescreen to hide your evasions.
However, a thought occurs: it may not be part of the question, but we can't really isolate the parts. Perhaps the Quaxtar diamond numbers are inflated by the fact of foreign scAmway legs being downline of NA Quaxtar organizations, and that's why it seems like there are more than there should be when Quaxtar is considered in isolation. After all, new legs, wherever they are, don't just spring forth spontaneously. They have to be conned into it by someone already in.
Bingo Bystander!
Many recent Quixtar diamonds have few legs in other countries. I know MANY gala LOS folks went diamond that way.
Kanti & Lata Gala can have their separate system, but they still insist to plug with BWW. Reason? Legal protection!! Many Gala IBOs don't have appropriate status to operate as a business owner in North America. BWW provide them cover and keep the profits!
My apologies, Qblog - but I did warn that I was going to raise my voice... the man just didn't seem to be listening otherwise :-)
Kind of like an annoying 5 year old.
As an aside, it wasn't ALL caps... But I will try to overcome my shame at attracting your ire.
I know that it's a National holiday and all, but I am really interested to see a respose to my message.
Not that anyone is going to change their POV.
I would change my POV.
If the Ambot POV made any sense whatsoever.
But it doesn't. Michael, can you or can you not provide an answer?
Tony, M&M, care to field this one?
Michael has clearly answered that he doesn't know the answer to how many quixtar only diamonds. thats his answer "i don't know."
Now, when the critics start saying "here are Quixtars numbers, here's the growth rate, so here's how many diamonds and above there must be", what Michael is saying is this: you critbots are not taking into account that Quixtar IBOs can have business overseas... in Amway, numbers you critbots are NOT counting!!
Hence michaels question: how many Amway only diamonds were there in 2004-2005?? Were you guys born with quixtar #'s in your heads?? NO! You looked them up... so look up the Amway #s to answer Michaels question and to make your claims closer to the truth.
Or is the truth not important to critbots as much as they like to pretend. They like to do Anything to smear Quixtar. Quixtar could give $1million to Easter Seals and critbots would spin it to say that they stole $1Mil from Easter Seals!! Thats whats wrong with critbots. They're more deceptive than the worst IBOs!!
And yes, Achieve only shows NEW pin winners! And as Dave R has shown there were 50 new Diamonds and above last year - 50!! So much for your 31 theory based on faulty #'s and faulty logic!!
Silly critbots, Trix are for kids!!
Thanks for your input Mark.
I don't think any crtic could be worse than a deceptive diamond. Far fewer people are hurt by being exposed to the truth.
"They like to do Anything to smear Quixtar"
Quixtar does a good job on it's own of smearing itself.
Your entire business is based on a lie.
Good Christian based business you got going on there.
Good for you, winner.
Michael said:
"Let me ask you this, If the 2-5 year plan was stable in the Amway corporation (and still is) why can't it be in the quixtar corporation? That is the basis of my question, "how many Amway only diamonds were there last year?"
First off, Amway doesn't operate in the United States and Canada as such. All the distributors now work under the Quixtar name. So there are NO Amway diamonds in the United States and Canada. That's why your question makes no sense.
Second, while "the 2-5 year plan" itself has been stable, there have been few people who have actually made it in 2-5 years. Especially in the United States, where most people have dealt with Amway since college if not before AND hate the company. That's why your answer has no basis in the real world.
Now, if you had an actual answer to the question you keep asking us, you would have said it to us at some point, not kept us going. That fact that you keep asking the question makes me think that there was no pertinent answer to it, and that you put it out just to gum up the works here.
Now, if there is an actual reason behind your question, please state it. Maybe it's valid. I'll wait for that.
If there is a valid reason.
MC:
It wouldn't matter to me how many Amway Diamonds there are simply because I'm in The USA. Unless I was willing to move to some foreign country (Canada doesn't count) and become an Amway distributor there, there'd be no way for me to become an Amway Diamond. I'd have to become a Quixtar Diamond.
ergo, the question is moot. The rules are different, they would have no effect on me.
guys,
It's amazing to watch the critics point of view crumble right before my eyes- there is so many contradictions going on here than I can shake a stick at.
Rocket,
Please scroll up and re read my posts. I've answered you, I DON'T KNOW! Is that any more clear to you?
As far as dodging the answers, the critics are the only ones dodging my answers right now!
I just want an honest answer to any of my questions. If you don't know, please reply, you don't know. I'll accept anything other than a load of BS at this point. I think the reason critics refuse to answer my questions is because that will show some growth- which they DON'T want to admit. Rocket, I won't get mad at the facts, cause you haven't given me any.
Don,As far as your statement about
"Now, if you had an actual answer to the question you keep asking us, you would have said it to us at some point, not kept us going. That fact that you keep asking the question makes me think that there was no pertinent answer to it, and that you put it out just to gum up the works here."
I have a valid question. I am not baiting the critics. That's your tactics to bait the IBO's. I am simply asking the critics an honest question. Fair enough?
qblog,
I seems as though you critics successfully baited an IBO again.
As far as the critics questions of:
"How many quixtar only diamonds were there in the 6 year existance?"
I've figured out that you don't have a solid answer on it, and its designed only to get a quixtar-only ibo riled up. There is no possible way to get that information. However, it doesn't mean they DON'T exist.
Also, after checking with the ftc this am, we ARE allowed to follow the 2-5 year plan as that shows a simple solid plan that is NOT designed as a get rick quick scheme. SO again, my answer to you without dodging anyone is that I DON'T KNOW, got it? Happy now?
keith, don, my questions are relevant because you critics are trying to skew the numbers to make it look like Amway/Quixtar is one in the same, and is showing a zero growth for north America. While I successfully got you critics to Admit Amway is NOT the same as quixtar, I ask a very important question- how many Amway only Diamonds were there for 2005 and how much was Amway's revenue? It's a simple enough question. Quit dodging the answers.
Miachael> If you don't know, please reply, you don't know.
Imran> Didn’t I say that, it was the first response. And I think many other people have said the same thing. Which is 'don't know don't care'. Unless u r trolling. Your response “I don't know� must be acceptable, and ours is not?
MC> you critbots are not taking into account that Quixtar IBOs can have business overseas...
Imran> Hmm, you didn't read mine or Bystander's message did you? My biggest pet peeve, ppl responding without reading.
And in end, lawDawgs number came from: Alticor / Quixtar / scam.
Michael's Question: Quixtar numbers. IBO should have better access to it. All we got is SA4400 and press releases. It was simply putting 2 and 2 together. Multiplying actually.
I didn't see too many critbots answering "I don't know" to Michaels question! Most were saying, "what does it matter?" "you're changing the topic" "we're concerned with Quixtars #'s not Amway in other countries" And Imran I read your post!! What do you mean BWW provides cover for Gala legs that can't operate in US?? If Gala has a leg in India they're operating in India under Amway. Not the US - how is BWW providing cover to non-US legs!
And while YOU admit the fact that Qx IBOs can have business overseas, lawdwg is not! He's looking at Quixtar only #'s and saying "there can only be 31 Diamonds, its not possible that there were 50 new Diamonds and above last year alone!!"
THAT'S the fallacy!!
I was talking about IBOs here in North america who are not US citizens Choghad Aadmi!
Here is what I wrote
http://tinyurl.com/8wgaa
http://tinyurl.com/7lnwp
I'd venture to say majority of Gala LOS is composed of indians and pakistanis. And in US many don't have citizen ship. They are on H1 or L1 visa. If INS finds out they are doing a business they'll be in trouble!
Should IBO warn ppl? yes. Do they? No. My upline emailed me that half of his LOS is on H1. New commers are secret to Gala LOS success so they need to keep doing it. They don't have as much political influence (many ppl don't have vote as they're not citizens) so they need to plug in with some major system.
Regarding lawDawg's number, I think there are at least 5 times more qualified diamonds than that. Because virtually every Amway diamond is a leg to some Quixtar Diamond here. Amway originated from North America after all. All the pins in China, Korea and India just can't be all one legged. (Happy Mike? If that's the point u were making?)
In fact, stacking is where international market is good for! Create pins and Go Diamond!
(I know I know, even 5 times is not ...uh .... too good given the number of ppl churned)
Imran-
I am very happy you answered me! Thank you.
My "trolling" is complete. More critics debunked.
How does being in BWW get you around the fact that you need a Social Security # to register with Quixtar?? Its 2 seperate systems. BWW can't "provide cover".
Imran> New commers are secret to Gala LOS success so they need to keep doing it.
T> what do you mean by that: newcomers are "secret" to Gala LOS success...
I> They don't have as much political influence (many ppl don't have vote as they're not citizens) so they need to plug in with some major system.
T> you're implying they plug into BWW to get "political influence". 1st of all the Gala team plugs into BWW for the same reason the Winters Team does, they're Under Bill Britt!
BWW doesn't have political influence other than the fact the Emeralds & Diamonds can talk about conservative viewpoints, and try to get more people to vote conservative, which doesn't even matter if the non-US citizen IBO's can't even vote. I'm not following your logic.
Also, congrats Michael on getting a critic to answer your question, although exact Alticor #'s weren't given, but he did acknowledge lawdawg's #'s were faulty.
The concept that a Diamond must fall out of qualification for each new Diamond is absurd! Mike Waechter will be a qualified Diamond in August. Who will fall off. When Diamonds have there Platinums go Diamond, they just move up to higher pins due to FAA points. 9 platinum legs is an EDC, but 9 diamond legs is a Crown Ambassador!! I've never heard of a Diamond completely falling out of qualification. Maybe one of their 6 not hitting 7500 one month, but not completely falling back to Saphire or something!!
Tony,
I have heard of a diamonds falling back to Saphire and below. Here are some of them. I apologize for the miss spelt last names. If you go to the BWW website you can look them all up.
1) Greg and Cathy Janke
2) Randy and Corrie Glascock
3) Nick Olnick
Go Diamond!
All that proves is that my idea that the number of quaxtar diamonds is inflated by foreign scamway legs has validity. And the newcomers being the "secret" of Gala's success is self-evident; if there weren't all these newcomers to sign up under Gala, he wouldn't have such "success". Go figure. Imran would be better able to comment, but they may be signing up AS foreign legs, obviating the need for social security number.
BWW (and other LOS, as well as the corp) have political influence far beyond their little soapbox in front of the brainwashed cult members. Ever hear of contributions to parties and candidates? How about the scamway caucus in congress? Does the name Sue Myrick mean anything to you? HR1220? Don't be obtuse.
OK, if you're going to assert that Lawdawg et al are wrong, and there has been even a single example of someone who has joined quaxtar (NA) and gone diamond, give us a name. We don't ask the question because we don't know the answer (zero), we're just indulging our perverse, sadistic pleasure in trying to get one of you to admit it.
After all, if you're joining quaxtar in North America, and planning to operate in North America, one would think that you'd be intensely interested in what goes on/has gone on in North America, by whichever name the scam is known. But no, you refuse to care. You rationalize the total failure of the "2-5 year plan" with "oh, it's 2-5 years from when you make the commitment" or now "you can take breaks within the 2-5 years". Bury your head in the sand; it's your ass on the line, not mine.
And the FTC? No more did they "approve" the current mode of operation in their 1979 ruling than do they know or even care what the "2-5 year plan" says. Even if you did ask, as you say you did, they won't approve or endorse anything. They will only tell you if something has specifically been ruled invalid, after complaints, investigation, and adjudication. A world of difference from "approval".
Moreover, (and pay attention here) the distinction I draw is between scamway "Rest of the World" and quaxtar (=scamway North America). Quaxtar IS THE SAME THING as scamway NORTH AMERICA. This does not say quaxtar is the same as (everything ever called) scamway, nor does it say quaxtar is different to (everything ever called) scamway. Objective observers should by now be able to understand the distinction, despite obfuscation by the propagandists.
The answer to your question, Michael, is we don't know, nor can we know. Alticor is a private company, and does not have to release any numbers unless "forced" to under government regulations. As far as I know, and I could be wrong, most governments do not force Alticor to release their Amway numbers. In contrast, both the US and Canadian government force Alticor to release their North American (i.e. Quixtar) numbers. It is why we can extrapolate numbers for North America, but cannot for other countries around the world.
As far as overseas growth, most cons, including me, will admit there is growth in new markets. And it makes sense because Amway hasn't reached the saturation point in overseas markets has it has in North America. 300,000 or so active North America IBO's 30 years ago, and about 300,000 or so today. If say the number in India and Pakistan is also around 300,000, and there is a cycle that has currently 200,000 IBO's now, there will still be growth in the market. The question is, will the growth continue, or will this market too reach a saturation point.
And the answer depends on whether or not retail sales are occuring. If the buy from yourself and teach others to do so system is what is stressed, and there is little/no retail sales in the overseas market, these overseas markets will too find an equilibrium and growth will be stagnant. Just like it has been in North America the past 30 or so years, marked by the past 6 years where nobod who signed up under the Quixtar banner has made it to diamond yet.
Bystander> All that proves is that my idea that the number of quaxtar diamonds is inflated by foreign scamway legs has validity. And the newcomers being the "secret" of Gala's success is self-evident; if there weren't all these newcomers to sign up under Gala, he wouldn't have such "success". Go figure. Imran would be better able to comment, but they may be signing up AS foreign legs, obviating the need for social security number.
Imran> Disagree on last point. They are signed up as local IBO (violation right there). SSN numbers are not MUST to sign up. They should be! They're just for tax purposes, as my upline said. From Quixtar POV, that's true.
Let me explain. A LOT of new comers to US are from India, some from Pakistan and DOMINENT majority of them are on some sort of work visa. That means they can work with certain employers under certain conditions, but they can only 'work', not own and operate a business. H1 to L1. I posted two links for Tony, which I hope he has read, where I emailed Quixtar asking can people having work Visa become an IBO? Quixtar said NO. If they live in US and not Citizen, or some one who is authorized to own a business here, they can't.
Here is a Question: Why SSN is optional then? y not make it a must? Quixtar has been complained about his violation by me and many others. Who'll be in trouble? Poor IBOs having work visa.
And why new comers are secret to Gala LOS success? Simple! They haven't heard the word Amway, multi level marketing etc. Majority of them will end up in open. A guy like bystander whose wife was involved in MLM will sniff the MLM pitch from miles away. A new comer looking for 'opportunity' will most likely get suckered in.
Quixtar / BWW know that very well and haven't done a damn thing. All they have to do is make SSN must but they don't. Dollar Almighty is too mighty. The hell with the laws.
Tony> BWW doesn't have political influence other than the fact the Emeralds & Diamonds can talk about conservative viewpoints, and try to get more people to vote conservative, which doesn't even matter if the non-US citizen IBO's can't even vote. I'm not following your logic.
Imran> Come one, Quixtar and various LOS are big (some even reported biggest in 2003) political spenders. Of course they don’t give money to politicians for nothing! You tell me how US political system works. Why would a politician like that mayor lady sue maryick will try to change laws for ppl who don't even have vote? For Britt or Devos she would!
Tony> 1st of all the Gala team plugs into BWW for the same reason the Winters Team does, they're Under Bill Britt!
Imran> What is wrong with you? Bill Britt should be plugging to Dexter Yager as he is under him!! I don’t know about Larry Winter’s team, but size of Gala Galaxy is enormous!! Half of the Britt diamonds are in Gala Galaxy. If Galas starts printing controversial tools with logo and stuff and some lawsuit is filed against them, whole GALA LOS could be investigated for Visa Violations etc.
Michael> I am very happy you answered me! Thank you.
My "trolling" is complete. More critics debunked.
Imran> I'm glad you're happy. You're quite easy ;)
Unlike you, I'm not happy if some one agrees with me. I wanna know the actual number of Diamonds. It's quite frustrating to get the number from Quixtar isn't it?
I'm actually looking forward for lawDawgs response. (because he always back them with numbers. Only if you guys do that. It would be great)
Numbers he posted were a good reflection for people who want to do Quixtar in North America. It proves that to go Diamond, they better go international unsaturated markets!
And you are happy for what? 150 Diamonds? Number of IBOs in the WHOLE world should be considered as well.
And uh...Tony, many diamonds PUSH to go diamond and right after that majority falls back. And they don't care, they've entered the diamond club. Would you care about 90K / year product bonus or 200K / tool money?
dmm,
Who is to say that the north american market is saturated anyways? How many people currently have the internet? How many people shop online?
I think this whole "saturation point" is a myth skewed by the misrepresentation of the facts posed by the critics. I've proven that point.
Granted the numbers are down this year I'll admit, but they aren't way down. They also aren't below last year's totals.
Here's another question(which I'll only ask once): "When is Amway NOT Amway?"
Which is like saying, when is a door not a door? When its ajar!!!
here's a hint bystander: Amway is Amway no matter which territory it has because it's all controlled by Alticor!!!
Michael> I think this whole "saturation point" is a myth skewed by the misrepresentation of the facts posed by the critics. I've proven that point.
Imran> Don't lie michael. U prove the number of Diamonds point, not number of IBOs. and that's Quixtar / FTC legal case numbers. In fact u didn't, I did ;););)
Seriously, I'm waiting for lawdawgs reply. Numbers / facts.
Michael> Granted the numbers are down this year I'll admit, but they aren't way down. They also aren't below last year's totals.
Imran> What are they?
Quixtar's new boss abolishes "2 to 5 year plan" and announces "3 to 6 year plan". Get the story!
http://www.amquix.info/humor/3to6plan/3to6year_plan.html
Get your colorful "Quixtar tools for sale on E-bay" decorative collage for you computer desktop here. 1024x768 format. (385K .jpg format)
(Right mouse click on link and "save target as...")
http://www.amquix.info/humor/tool_collage.jpg
I'm glad that you feel victorious, Michael.
A Pyrrhic victory, in my mind. Look at all of the winners who will follow you, with a 99% of being worse off than when they started.
Where do I sign up, baby?
Imagine if the IRS got a chance to peek into the Diamond's flow of undeclared tool money, they would have a new 10 to 20 year plan to introduce!
Oh wait thats just silly, IBO's are not all bad, Some of them just don't know about the rampent corruption and if they do just don't say anything...or they do, then are forced to quit....hmmm.
Thankfully Quix tar folks have God on their side, because God wants all of us to have 50 foot sailboats and island getaways... plenty of time to be with our families...eventually after we burn out of Quixter and lose our friends, then we will have no self esteem but plenty of time!
Whoo Hoo.....Are you feeling it? Are you pumped up? Yeaahhhh
Wow, my version of the "plan" isn't as motivational, darn it... Oh well.
Remember, SA8.. don't spray it!
"Who is to say that the north american market is saturated anyways? How many people currently have the internet? How many people shop online?"
Here's some "numbers" to ponder :
From a recent Washington Post article
The top 15 E-Commerce Retail Sites for May 2005 by unique visitors (in millions)
1. eBay 64.3
2. Amazon 41.0
3. Wal-Mart 21.3
4. Shopping.com 19.8
5. Target 19.5
6. Apple Computer 17.1
7. Shopzilla.com 16.2
8. Overstock.com 16.1
9. Moviefone 15.3
10. Cingular.com 14.4
11. American Greetings 14.3
12. Property 13.6
13. Ticketmaster 12.9
14. Yahoo! Shopping 11.6
15. Dell 11.5
Source: comScore Network (yes, they are a real company)
Comments?
Why isn't the Q on this list?
And after asking the previous question, feel free to slam me as a critbot, etc. - as legitimate questions are just thinly veiled "attacks" against the business, don't you know?
I also will put this on the forum under Quixtar questions if people want to go into super-detail
Good ol' saturation...
Saturation is a well-established concept from economics, and applies to any market, whatever other distortions there are. The word gets thrown around a lot, but I don't think most people (on both sides) really have a grip on what it is.
Saturation is simply the point beyond which the COST of acquiring a new customer exceeds the profit to be realized FROM that customer. There's all kinds of accounting etc that goes into determining this point, but you can think of it as the point where the market becomes essentially zero-sum. To gain market share, someone else has to lose some. Can anyone make a profit in a saturated market? Sure they can. Is a saturated market a good one to get into? Only if you understand that you have a long, hard road with little potential for reward.
You could say the market for quaxtar's product line is well saturated, at least under the conditions and constraints in which it operates (no marketing, inefficient distribution, high prices), which is why recruiting long ago became more prominent than sales. It's just easier to go out and STP than to flog the products, and the supposed potential reward is greater, if you believe that reward actually exists. This is where the lack of creation of new diamonds becomes pertinent.
You could also say that the market for the "opportunity" is well saturated, since MOST of these "independent" "businesses" are running at so much of a loss, obviously they're spending far more than what's to be earned. If we divide the total bonus pool (and to be generous) whatever retail profits exist, by the number of active participants, it's less than what each is spending chasing after a piece of it. Saturated. This is where the stagnation in number of participants despite thirty years or so of growth in the population at large becomes pertinent.
Bruce, that was an excellent explanation of saturation.
Another simple concept from economics to discuss is the role of "opportunity cost". That is the cost of the next best alternative.
So, those that choose to forego A/Q and invest that money in a mix of Stock and/or Bond mutual funds* are most likely SAVING money in terms of opportunity costs.
The S&P has historically* provided solid returns over a long period of time.
So, I am baffled when those choosing A/Q over simple dollar-cost-averaging investing think that they are choosing the better alternative. Or when the ambots say "Hey, that's cool if our opportunity isn't for you"
Not only is it not for me, it really isn't for YOU either!!! Wake up!
I'll take my 8-12% returns every year and double my money every 6-9 years.
If you ambots aren't into slow and steady asset growth, then hey, that's cool....
..but why not???????????
*I am not endorsing any particular fund, nor am I stating that past performance is indictative of future returns.
Regarding the word 'critbot', I have already said I hate the word 'ambot'. Yet you guys continue to use 'critbot' for every one. Maybe it's a re-buttal, but say it to ppl who used it. Not every one else.
Also, if you wanna call names, call some real flaming name (not to every one, to the person u wanna call). This ambot and critbot just show your level of maturiy (both sides). Come on, is that the best you can do?
DF
It's nice to see your learning something new today like "dollar cost averaging" thats a big term for you- I am impressed!
However the definition of market saturation is:
In economics, "market saturation" is a term used to describe a situation in which a product has become diffused (distributed) within a market; the actual level of saturation can depend on consumer purchasing power; as well as competition, prices, and technology.
Therefore, by that very definition, Quixtar will never become saturated. Hello, we are product distributors! This is a good article for my blog as well.
Imran, I know Gala team is doing awesome, but I believe Winters is bigger. I've heard the top 50 people in Quixtar (based on volume) are all on the Winters team. Not to take anything away from Gala.
Britt was obviously big enough to break off to his own system. I don't think Winters or Gala is quite there yet, although they could if they really wanted to.
And Imran, if a Diamond pushes to go diamond and then falls back, he's not a qualified Diamond and will Not be going to Diamond Club!
And whats this $90,000 product bonus? Diamonds make $150,000+ from Qx, I just showed a Diamonds 1 month earnings for over $124,000!!! (Still waiting to hear from all the critbots [applicable use] that said it didn't exist and that I couldn't produce it! I think a big fat "I TOLD YOU SO" applies here!
And yet you Imran talk about $90K in product $ vs $200K in tool money!! WHY! Where is your evidence that tool $ is $200K and why do you insist on slanting the numbers from Qx when Qx #'s show Diamonds making $150,000/ year and I showed one that made $124,000 in 1 MONTH!! Why???
And Bruce, another great twist to make Qx look bad. He lists the the top 15 sites based on TRAFFIC, not SALES!! Of course sites like ebay (which doesn't even count as 1 company since there are many companies selling on there) and Amazon are gonna have higher traffic! They spend MILLIONS of $$ on Advertising!! Quixtar Doesn't advertise!! Quixtar might not have the daily traffic of an Amazon, Moviephone or Ticketmaster, but most people hitting those sites might just be checking times or prices, or just looking around, not buying anything. A higher % of Qx visitors buy stuff.
I've seen the lists of e-tailers based on sales and Qx DOES rank in the top, #12 right behind Walmart I believe! And in some industries (such as Beuaty, and Health & Wellness they're ranked #1!!)
Check out www.QuixtarFacts.com
Oh and btw, as more people shop online more people will be open to Quixtar. At one time "Cable TV" was completely foreign and some people said, "who's gonna PAY for TV, but it caught on. And then XM radio came out and people said "who's gonna Pay to have radio", but its catching on. And now some people say "who's gonna Pay to have grocery products shipped to their house", but its catching on. People will pay for convenience. How valuable is your time?
Mikebot:
Your crude attempt at a slam is erroneous.
Not that I expect anything but errors from you.
I defined opportunity cost, not market saturation.
Get your stuff right, tuff guy.
I need to correct myself, it was Bystander (not Bruce) with the excellent explanation.
"You could also say that the market for the "opportunity" is well saturated, since MOST of these "independent" "businesses" are running at so much of a loss, obviously they're spending far more than what's to be earned. If we divide the total bonus pool (and to be generous) whatever retail profits exist, by the number of active participants, it's less than what each is spending chasing after a piece of it. Saturated."
Mikebot, I don't see you applying your definition of market saturation to the A/Q business model.
Where is that? You haven't shown anything, so I wouldn't get so smug just yet.
Mikebot:
When you get done with that last post, you can try (in vain) to disprove the opportunity cost/dollar cost average theory in my previous post.
Let's not lose sight of that...........
cost". That is the cost of the next best alternative.
So, those that choose to forego A/Q and invest that money in a mix of Stock and/or Bond mutual funds* are most likely SAVING money in terms of opportunity costs.
The S&P has historically* provided solid returns over a long period of time.
So, I am baffled when those choosing A/Q over simple dollar-cost-averaging investing think that they are choosing the better alternative. Or when the ambots say "Hey, that's cool if our opportunity isn't for you"
Not only is it not for me, it really isn't for YOU either!!! Wake up!
I'll take my 8-12% returns every year and double my money every 6-9 years.
If you ambots aren't into slow and steady asset growth, then hey, that's cool....
..but why not???????????
*I am not endorsing any particular fund, nor am I stating that past performance is indictative of future returns.
Or maybe, Mikebot, you are ducking that argument on purpose. I would if I were you; unarmed and outnumbered by too many facts! That must suck.....
Tony: That 150 K figure is from plan right, it's like 90K product bonus and 60 K is one time diamond bonus. A lot of Diamonds fell from Qualification yet known as Diamonds. That's what I meant bu diamond's club. Some one gave you a list here. A big fat I told you so ;) There are books written by Diamond's personal assistant that Diamonds were actually losing money in their poiduct business!! Sure there might be diamonds where their Diamond bonus from Quixtar is big. Does that 124K includes first time hitting diamond bonus of 60K?
Also, how u guys show the plan? Do you start, "There are 10 bonuses paid to IBOs. I'll explain first 3. If that make sense, rest will...." Do you know all 10 bonuses? It is a BWW plan.
Also, can you please tell me the number of IBOs in winters team?
Mike: what are the Quixtar sales numbers this year? You said near the last years numbers. How near?
Tony, with cable t.v., the end consumer got more for his money then with over air t.v. Paying for t.v. got things like ESPN, Disney, HBO. Someone not paying for these services don't get them, unless they are stealing cable. Sure someone may say t.v. is just t.v., but when you live accross the country from your favorite college team and local t.v. never shows them, it's worth the money getting the extra sports package.
Similarly, with XM and Sirius, subscribers get more for their money. More stations and no commercials. For those who live in rural areas and love music, satellite radio is a godsend.
In contrast, what do people who shop online get for the extra money they spend? The convenience of having something shipped directly to their house? Sure, but is this something new with the advent of shopping online? Of course not.
In fact, if we look, people shopped and had things delivered to their doorstep long before Sam Walton ever opened a store! Sears & Roebuck, my friend. Huge catalog business, at one point. But with the advent of the car and trucks, even the largest ever catalog business switched to brick and mortar.
Online shopping isn't a revolution, it's an evolution of catalog shopping. It's the same old principle, just higher tech. Look at a picture of what you want, contact the store, order it, and have it delivered to your door. Same concept as it was in 1880, the difference is now it's done electronically versus by mail. Since the end of WWII (and growth of suburbs), traditionally, catalog shopping has represented no more then 3% of total retail. Why would the computer significantly change this?
The answer is, for the traditional brick and mortar, it won't. People still have the same choice of dropping by the store, paying less in shipping and using their purchases when they get home, or shopping at home, paying more, and waiting for the doorbell to ring before they can use what they just bought. The overwhelming majority have traditionally chosen brick and mortar, and the computer won't change this much. For example, if you look at traffic and purchases, Walmart.com is high on traffic, but low on purchases. Why? Because people "window shop" online to see what's available, then still go to the store to buy it.
Where computer shopping will make a difference is with technology shopping and "ticket" shopping (things that require tickets like travel/entertainment). Take a look at the list above and notice which of the top 15 deal with technology (Apple, Dell) and which deal with tickets (Ticketmaster, Moviefone). Here the computer makes significant differences, because people can "use" what they have purchased often right away. Go to Apple and download software for your computer, and when it's done, you use it. Go to Ticketmaster and your tickets will be waiting for you at Will Call. In contrast, order a hammer online, and you'll have to wait a few days to use it. Go in the morning and buy one from Wal-Mart, however, and you can hammer in that morning, in that evening, and all over the world...
After reading all these posts, I am beginning to think that the cartoon represents something entirely different.
The happy guy is the ambot -- the one revelling in anecdotal, ignorant bliss.
The other guy is the deprogrammed ambot -- the one that just realized he wasted 2-5 years of his life, wasted tens of thousands of $$, wasted his integrity and credibility in front of his friends and family.
Even though he looks worse, the deprogrammed bot has a better chance of getting his real life back.
Tony, Mike, Em --> which one do you want to be ?????????
Tony,
I had copies of Dexter Yager's big checks as well. At the time I thought it was soo exciting. Now, a few years removed from the system, I can ask the question, "what is the likelihood that I will make that same amount of money in that system?"
Since no IBO hs signed up in the last 6 years and achieved that status, the likelihood is very small or less than a 1 in 200,000 chance.
Online sales were up 25% this past Christmas versus the previous Christmas. The trend of internet shopping is going up! The internet, dmm, IS going to change a lot. Does anyone think the internet is going away? Was it a fad?
It's changing the face of commerce. More and more people are shopping online, and that # is continuing to grow. People are banking online more, paying bills online.
I can remember as a kid writing letters to family out of state. Who writes letters anymore, you do it thru email or IM. You wait and see what the internet does.
And Imran that $150K isn't just from the plan, its from Qx's publicly released averages! (the ones you guys like to quote so much) The $61,000 in bonuses at Diamond is NOT a 1 time bonus. You get bonuses every year for being at that level.
Included in the checks I sent qblog was a copy of a $17,500 bonus in Nov, of '02, (which I've also seen the one for Nov. of '04) and the big ones were for $124,000 for Dec. of '04.
So no, that $124,000 Didn't include a 1 time Diamond bonus. He went Diamond in '95! The checks for 12/04 didn't even include any Diamond bonus, it was his PV bonus for Dec.
So much for "there's only $$ in the tools" Not to mention last year someone made over $300,000 in 1 month from the Qx Growth bonus. And I think they were only an Emerald, not some CAM.
Tony:
You are still missing the point. Yes, the internet, as a commerce portal is a very powerful device.
But the income streams you are REALLY talking about (the Q* tools) have nothing to do with e-commerce.
Just as it never did during its previous incantation (the big Amscam).
Nor did it during its very first incantation -- the Ponzi scheme.
If you are looking to build real, sustainable wealth, I suggest you quick forking over ca$h for tools and start plugging it into some viable fiscal investments.
Per my previous post:
"So, those that choose to forego A/Q and invest that money in a mix of Stock and/or Bond mutual funds* are most likely SAVING money in terms of opportunity costs.
The S&P has historically* provided solid returns over a long period of time.
So, I am baffled when those choosing A/Q over simple dollar-cost-averaging investing think that they are choosing the better alternative. Or when the ambots say "Hey, that's cool if our opportunity isn't for you"
Not only is it not for me, it really isn't for YOU either!!! Wake up!
I'll take my 8-12% returns every year and double my money every 6-9 years.
If you ambots aren't into slow and steady asset growth, then hey, that's cool....
..but why not???????????
*I am not endorsing any particular fund, nor am I stating that past performance is indictative of future returns."
Tony, I think you are pretty young guy, I think there is plenty of time for you to turn your ship around.
Ok Tony, thanks for the 25% update. Little surprised why there was no press release. It is huge you know. 25% increase in sales. Do u have a link? Thanks.
Also, that 60 K is for every diamond for maintaing diamond ship? or is it only for Founder Diamonds? In plan they show Founder Diamonds.
I like to beat dead horse so ... According to http://www.amquix.info/quixtar_results.html
There were 881,410 IBOs.
Lawdawg multiplied the diamond number with Active IBOs. They're total IBOs. Was the ratio was Diamond among all signed up or all active?
Michael said:
"keith, don, my questions are relevant because you critics are trying to skew the numbers to make it look like Amway/Quixtar is one in the same...."
Well, last I checked you couldn't do Amway in the United States or Canada, and Quixtar wasn't valid in any other part of the world. So one would think that, at the very least, these two companies were operating in a mutually exclusive manner.
Second, both Amway and Quixtar are under the umbrella of Alticor. Since they are branches of the same corporation, it would seem that there is some plan behind the way they're marketed, and to whom. That Quixtar IBOs can have Amway Distributor legs doesn't prove they're different, IMHO, since this only implies that Quixtar IBOs can have legs that go overseas.
Now, to the Pro-AmQuix posters, here's the crux of my arguement: Quixtar operates ONLY in the US and Canada; Amway operates everywhere BUT in the US and Canada.
Unless you can prove that you can choose to operate an Amway business in the United States (or a Quixtar business in France or India) then you have no way of proving to me that Amway and Quixtar are nothing but the same thing. And even then, you'd want to prove different operating procedures, different LOS and different rules.
I found a link about the 25% increase in online sales since 2004. I was curious as well.
http://www.internetretailer.com/article.asp?id=15100
"Total online retail sales in 2004 grew 25% over the year before"
Its a site that the Quixtar Facts page likes to quote which makes me begin to doubt its veracity.
Looks like you can buy their list of the top 400 Retail websites for 50 bucks. It appears from their sample that NewEgg is #9.
Tony,
You never commented on my post about those three diamonds that fell back to Saphire and below. To refresh your memory they were:
1) Greg&Cathy Janke
2)Randy and Corrie Glasscock
3) Nick and Barb Olnick
Dan thanks for providing that link. Anyone else want to refute that online sales keeps becoming a bigger and bigger segment of US commerce. Forrester Research has said that in the next 10 years as much as 50% of the sales in this country could be online.
I'll look for a link to prove that.
Speaking of proof. Thanks Frank for giving the names of 3 couples who supposedly went Diamond and fell back to sapphire. So, wheres the proof that they're not Diamonds now. All I see on BWW is their story on how they're out of debt, retired, etc. Tell me how You know that now they're back to Saphire, or below??
And how many Diamonds could I list that stayed Daimond or are now EDC, or Triple or CAM?? A LOT more than 3! And even if those 3 did fall back, so what, because 3 fell back this doesn't work?? How many people have been CEO or VP of a company and then been "replaced" and put back somewehre else or completely fired?
But I still wanna see how you know they're saphires now.
Did you know that adjusted for inflation, currently, online sales only account for 2.2% of total retail sales in the USA? Want a source? Try the US Census http://www.census.gov/mrts/www/data/html/05Q1.html.
Now, that's a significant niche, but it also begs the question, where did that 2.2% previously shop? Were they previously brick and mortar sales, or were they previously other catalog sales? Remember, traditionally, post WWII and pre internet, catalog sales were about 3% of the total retail sales. Be interesting to see what traditional paper catalog sale numbers are, even if they are available, since so many traditional catalogs are tied into their web-sites and now take most of their orders online!
In addition, we also don't know how much of the 2.2% is represented by products or services that did not exist before computers. For example, how many people ordered airline or movie tickets from home before the computer? Now sites like Expedia and Fandango do millions of dollars of business. Similarly, software stores, which did boom a bit in the 80's, have all but died down because it makes sense just to buy/download from home.
In the end, I still say for traditional brick and mortar stores, the internet is just the next evolution of catalogs, which again, account for just 3% of total retail. Online sales, which do allow for more things to be ordered from home, will account for more business because of the new advantages allowing the consumer to buy things from home he previously could not, but these were items rarely or never bought from Wal-Mart before anyway, like airline tickets.
The fact is, the battle between shopping at home and shopping at big boxes was fought about a century ago. The big boxes won. Simply put, the shipping per item is cheaper, and the ability of use is much quicker. If I wanted a hammer, I could go to Target and be using it in less then an hour, and the shipping I'd pay would be less then a penny, because the shipping cost would be spread over thousands of items in the store. In contrast, if I order the hammer online, shipping an item that weighs a couple of pounds will be relatively expensive, and I'd have to wait two to three business days before I could use it, lest I pay even more for overnight shipping.
Sure, there will always be the 3% that will buy the hammer from the catalog, but the rest of us will still be in line looking for those K-Mart Blue Light specials.
Tony,
I know that they are Saphire and below for a couple of reasons. One Randy & Corrie Glassock lost a massive chunk of thier business before Quixtar launched. I know because I was good friends with the bulk of thier front line directs. They don't even qualify for Q12 any more.
Greg and Cathy Janke are in the same boat. Greg lost most of his business as a result of investement scams that were being run by his down line. 4 emaarlds in one leg dropped out. Now they barely hang on to qualification for Q12.
Must of Nick O'nick business has faded away. He has started teaching school again. How's that for retirement.
And Randy and Corrie are not out of debt. My brothers friend works at the bank where they do all thier banking. He told me that they have a $45,00 line of credit that was past due and a second mortgage on thier house.
I have also heard that Greg had to take a second mortgage on his house to keep some of his tool debts he had racked up with AMI.
Hope that answers your question.
Yea, dmm, but a century ago, it was OK to beat your wife, blacks & women couldn't vote, and I think a few other things might have changed since then. We'll see how the internet does versus catalogs in the 70's. (Oh and e-commerce might only be about 3% right now, but it was less than 0.5% back in '99.) So let's see where its at in 5-10 years.
And if shipping for you to get a hammer from Walmart is less than .01 cent - I'd like to know where you're buying gas!! Come on dmm, there's more of a cost than just what Walmart paid for shipping when you buy stuff from them!! The cost is Your GAS, and Your TIME!
Shipping it to your door saves you time and gas, and when you order more than just 1 thing, but what you need for a whole month, that shipping is also divided over a few dozen products!
And for crying outloud, plan ahead! I don't wait until my toothpaste is gone to say - "uh oh, I need more toothpaste, but now I have to wait 3 days to have it shipped!" I plan ahead!
If I decide I need a new hammer or any tools, I'll order it thru Craftsman (one of our Partner Stores) and it'll be there in a few days. And I'll do it before I decide to build something and realize "hey, I don't own a hammer!"
Oooh Yea, Frank - that answers ALL my questions! I think I'm gonna quit right now!! Thank you so much for your irrefutible evidence!
???
Tonybot -- quit trying to label AQ as ecommerce. We all know that it is all a front! If it was about e-commerce, then your tools would be about building an e-commerce infrastructure, not a bunch of "motivational" cheerleading.
Per my previous post:
Tony:
You are still missing the point. Yes, the internet, as a commerce portal is a very powerful device.
But the income streams you are REALLY talking about (the Q tools) have nothing to do with e-commerce.
Just as it never did during its previous incantation (the big Amscam).
Nor did it during its very first incantation -- the Ponzi scheme.
If you are looking to build real, sustainable wealth, I suggest you quick forking over ca$h for tools and start plugging it into some viable fiscal investments.
Per my previous post:
"So, those that choose to forego A/Q and invest that money in a mix of Stock and/or Bond mutual funds* are most likely SAVING money in terms of opportunity costs.
The S&P has historically* provided solid returns over a long period of time.
So, I am baffled when those choosing A/Q over simple dollar-cost-averaging investing think that they are choosing the better alternative. Or when the ambots say "Hey, that's cool if our opportunity isn't for you"
Not only is it not for me, it really isn't for YOU either!!! Wake up!
I'll take my 8-12% returns every year and double my money every 6-9 years.
If you ambots aren't into slow and steady asset growth, then hey, that's cool....
..but why not???????????
*I am not endorsing any particular fund, nor am I stating that past performance is indictative of future returns."
Tony, these are pretty powerful facts -- facts that you can't refute. Why not just own up to it ???
Gas around my area is $2.25/gallon. My car gets about 30 mpg. I usually shop at Target, and the closest one is less then 5 miles away from my house, but for math purposes, I'll use 5 miles. Round trip, 10 miles, meaning I'm using .33 gallon of gas. Total cost, $.64.
But I usually make my Target trip on my way home from work. And don't you know it, the Target I shop at is only 1/2 mile off my regular route! Gas is then neglible.
Oh, and I'm also not a moron. I don't take a trip just to buy toothpaste either. My family usually writes on a whiteboard what we need, and buy more then one thing at a time too! If I buy just 2 items at Target, the gas cost is now about the cost of sending a first class letter! I bet I still win with shopping.
As far as time goes, if you only figure the time it takes to order, sure, the computer wins. But remember, I win in usuage of time. Let's have a competition, Tony. Who can build a birdhouse faster. We'll start tomorrow morning. I'll buy everything I need from a brick and mortar, and you order everything online. Who do you think will finish first? And who do you think will come in with a lower cost?
Tony you have your head in the sand... You only make $200 NET a month!?? After what, a year in the business?? If you were to follow the suggested tape and book purchasing plan you should only be making enough to pay for the tools each month.
You could Intern or Apprentice part time (5-15 hours a week ;) at any business and be coming out ahead of your current IBO income, Hell I used to Intern as a radio DJ and got my CD's, merchandise and lots of good food for free.
But that’s just a JOB to you....well let me tell you that this country has been built on people working hard at jobs, your house was built by them, your food was produced by them, and your life might be saved one day by them.
I am tired of IBO's looking down at others that do productive work or view it as some sort of slavery, if not for us that contribute something to society in a meaningful way...where would the world be??
It would be where you are Tony, in the dark, hiding from reality.
Let me expound on my last post a bit. First off, the cost per trip should be $.74, not $.64; I hit the wrong button. Secondly, in my challenge, let's say we cannot use anything we already own/have in our inventory and we have to purchase everything to build the birdhouses, from the wood to the tools to the glue.
Again, Tony, who do you think would finish first, and who would do it cheaper? Let's look at it a bit.
I would take one trip to Home Depot and buy everything I need, and start building as soon as I got home. Tony would order everything and have to wait 2 or 3 business days to get started, or if he wanted to start quicker, Tony would have to pay more for overnight shipping. If I have a problem, forget something or buy the wrong thing, I'd just return to the store and get it fixed right away. If Tony was shipping something wrong, he'd have to ship it back, which takes a couple of days, and then wait for a return shipment, again costing him several days.
In the end, like I've said before, the advantages of shopping at brick and mortar stores have already won out for most retail products over catalog shipping. Computer shopping is just a catalog evolution, and not a revolution. It's still cheaper and faster to shop at B&M stores, and computers cannot change that.
But don't forget dmm, Tony has precognitive powers and can foretell his every need well in advance. So he probably already knew you would issue this challenge last week....too bad Quixtar dosn't sell lumber, maybe he could make the bird house out of energy bars? :(
Tony,
I really don't know who you're trying to convince more - yourself or the critics. Being Pavlov's dog to any little thing the critics write isn't getting you any closer to Emerald.
Or to quote Louie Carillo: "You'd sure be a terror if you just believed"
Where, o'where did I write in that info that I wanted "to make Quixtar look bad"???
Sheesh, it's DATA - it has no emotion attached to it.
You're right - EBay doesn't "sell" things, but they do "sell" the use of their services. All the others do sell things - and it's not hard to fathom that their sales are well above Quixtar's. (prove me wrong otherwise)
No duh, the others advertise - but Q has 300,000 advertising agents out there in the land. But yet sales are flat.
Unique visitors are a excellent barometer to see if your marketshare is (or isn't) growing, which lead to, you guessed it, sales. If Quixtar is the cutting edge of E-Commerce, why aren't they on that list?
You don't have traffic, you don't have sales, period.
I was very surprised that Quixtar wasn't on that list - hence why I posted it. I really thought they should be there.
The "partner stores" should be pulling in customers left and right. But are they? Are they giving an incentive to the consumer at large to go thru Quixtar? (I already know how it benefits the IBO)
I.E. - I get 5% back by using my credit card for buying groceries and gas instead of my debit card - in return, the credit card company hopes to charge me interest if I don't pay off my balance every month (too bad for them, I do), and then they get a big increase in the user fees they charge the companies who use their network from the increased "traffic" (that word again) - so I guess my credit card company and supermarkets/gas stations are "partnered"
The "Partner Stores" concept is nothing unique - it's been around a long time. Heck, I got 25% off my order at FTD because of the company I work for - guess they're partnered too.
DF - I'll take unintended compliments anytime!!!! - and dollar-cost averaging works wonders - especially when you reinvest the dividends. Guess, I'm "partnered" with XOM, D, GE, and BHP !!!
At least there'll be NHL Hockey this fall.
Hey Irman, all I put was to "go ahead and call me a ..." to disarm the name-calling and have a discussion of the facts I wrote about. But I understand where your coming from - I'll leave that stuff out the next post.
On-line and catalogs are good for ordering stuff you'd have trouble finding in your regular stores.
On-line and catalogs are good for ordering Christmas and Birthday gifts, for those of us who like to plan ahead and try to guess what's good.
On-line works for stuff that can come through the wires without damage (music files, programs, porn videos).
On-line and catalogs are good for stuff you absolutely, positively have to have but don't want to make that special trip to look for (and maybe fail finding).
Otherwise, the Wal-Marts, Targets, Meijers and other brick-and-mortar stores everywhere have better prices and more convenience for whatever you need or want. Shipping costs-a major concern for catalogs and on-line stores-is subsumed and reduced to an almost unnoticable number in brick-and-mortar stores. Also, you can also find stuff you may not know about but like enough; try doing that with regularity in catalogs and on-line.
That's why on-line will be lucky to get a 10% share of the market. They'll still get an important part (and allow people to follow their tastes to extremes once allowed for the lucky, dedicated and weird few), but you'll still see the vast majority of your bucks going to brick-and-mortar stores.
dmm, I love your challenge, and then especially your clarification of it. See I already own the stuff needed. I own hammers, glue, nails, and scrap wood. I could build it as fast as you.
But then you clarifiy it by saying, oh you can't use anything on hand, you have to buy all new stuff. Well no shit dumass, you could do it sooner if I couldn't use anything on hand! Thats was my point- plan ahead! Don't wait until the tube of toothpaste is gone to say, I need more toothpaste.
If I know I need more of something, I order it in advance! Not to mention I have most of the stuff I need on Ditto, so it ships automatically, which saves me more time.
Its worth the $9/10 shipping for me not having to waste an evening walking up and done the isles at a grocery store, and then waiting in line behind 8 people who all have 100 items and can't find their checkbook.
Here's a challenge for you: Tell your buddy about some awesome product you've tried, or some awesome new store you shopped at and see if that company sends you a check!! See, while you can go and buy a hammer faster, you don't have the ability to SELL hammers. You don't get bonuses when others buy stuff or decide to be owners themselves. You don't have the ability to franchise or duplicate your time. So tell Joe Markiewicz, or heck even my sponsor that you can buy a hammer faster, and they'll tell you its worth waiting 3 days for a hammer, when you get a check for $3000, or $30,000 at the end of the month!
and Bruce, I may take your advice, I should probably stop wasting time on here. No one's really being convinced, my time would be better used somewhere else. But I diagree with 1 thing, more hits doesn't necessarily mean more sales. Your list of sites with most hits, and then saying "where's quixtar?" was slanted for the very rason I gave! Quixtar doesn't advertise like those companies do, but when you look at a more vaild list of e-commerce sites in regards to SALES, then you DO see Quixtar!! So who were You trying to convince and What were you trying to convince them?? That Quixtar isn't doing well?? Shady critbot!!
As I figured, Tony completely missed the point of the challenge. The point is, even if you plan ahead, it will be cheaper and quicker for the person to go the brick and mortar route then the online route. Plan ahead all you want, but ask the average consumer what is important to their shopping experience. Don't you think time and money are high on the list? Sure shopping online saves you time in the store, but what good is it if it takes several DAYS for delivery?
As for getting a referral for other shopping, I'm a bottom line guy. Sure you get paid for others to shop at Quixtar, but I have yet to find anything from Quixtar that is worth the cost for me. Sure some of the products are good, very good in fact, but I can find equal products for much cheaper at brick and mortar stores. Yes Target never pays me for a referral, but say, in general, Quixtar products are 20% more expensive (include shipping and minus bonus) then Target. And let's assume everyone I refer agrees with me that quality is equal. What would happen to those I refer?
Well, first off, I'd pay 20% more for my Quixtar purchases. I then refer one person, and get a 3% bonus. He's now paying 20% more, and with my extra bonus, I'm now paying 17% more. I get another referral, who is paying 20% more, and I'm still paying 14%. Eventually I might get 6 people to pay 20% more and I'm now spending less money, but what about the 6 other people?
If each of them find 6 people to pass the break even point, we now have 36 people paying 20% more. Each of these 36 find 6 people to pass the break even point, we now have 216 people paying more! And so on.
Now remember, we all believe quality to be equal. Do we honestly thing we can find the hundreds, and soon to be thousands of people to agree to pay more in the beginning in the hopes that more will sign up to pay more so they can recoup their extra costs?
The answer is no. Amway North America/Quixtar's own numbers prove this. The number of IBO's has stagnated the last 30 years. There has been no growth.
That's not to say there isn't a market for Quixtar products. Just it is a niche market and the exponential growth has never, nor it will ever happen. People are just too bottom line conscience, and if it costs more for products of perceived equal quality, people just won't spend the extra money. Wal-Mart has built an economic empire on low prices. Quixtar has built a niche company on referrals and high prices.
Tonybot: You're consideration toward leaving this sight is the second best thing you could do.
The best thing for you to do is to reconsider how you decide to invest your paychecks from your J-O-B
You haven't really gotten the hint about the BETTER way to invest, so I'll post it again.
Hopefully you'll get with it.......
"So, those that choose to forego A/Q and invest that money in a mix of Stock and/or Bond mutual funds* are most likely SAVING money in terms of opportunity costs.
The S&P has historically* provided solid returns over a long period of time.
So, I am baffled when those choosing A/Q over simple dollar-cost-averaging investing think that they are choosing the better alternative. Or when the ambots say "Hey, that's cool if our opportunity isn't for you"
Not only is it not for me, it really isn't for YOU either!!! Wake up!
I'll take my 8-12% returns every year and double my money every 6-9 years.
If you ambots aren't into slow and steady asset growth, then hey, that's cool....
..but why not???????????
*I am not endorsing any particular fund, nor am I stating that past performance is indictative of future returns."
Here's a post I made on prices a while ago, but it got filtered due to the links, I hope it works this time...
the stuff I buy mostly is equal to or cheaper than the competition, such as protein bars, XS, and Quality vitamins. Thats the case with the make-up and many other products too...
Protein Bars:
http://www.vitafly.com/pureproteinbar.html Retail $2.50 Sale: $2.23/bar
http://www.global-nutrition-inc.com/nn-067.html Retail price: $35.88 Sale price: $27.99 -12 bars
Nutrilite Protein bars: Retail $21 for 9bars - $17/ 9 bars ($1.88/bar) IBO/Member cost
https://www.quixtar.com/products/product.aspx?itemno=EE0095
Red Bull Energy Drink
http://www.needmorebeer.com/energy.htm $54.57 / 24pack
XS Energy Drink
https://www.quixtar.com/products/product.aspx?itemno=604327 $23.99 retail / $20.40 IBO/Member cost -12pack
http://www.cbc.ca/consumers/market/files/health/redbull/ (news about Redbull)
IBM Thinkpad T20 Internet Ready Intel P III 700 MHZ 128MB 10-12G
$385.00 - SHOP.COM (QUIXTAR PARTNER STORE)
http://froogle.google.com/froogle?q=IBM%C2%AE+ThinkPad%C2%AE+T20+700+MHz+Laptop+&hl=en&lr=&sa=N&tab=ff&oi=froogler (compare the others)
Cool Water Gift Set (4.2 oz cologne & 4.2 oz aftershave)
https://www.quixtar.com/products/product.aspx?pid=1155&Ctg=1374&ItemNo=703545 $61 retail / $54.99 IBO/Member
http://www.fragrancenet.com/f/net/mf_items.html?cat=00582&cur_letter=C&gs_gen=M Over $70 total
http://www.epinions.com/Fragrances-Davidoff_Cool_Water_Gift_Set_-_4_2_oz_EDT_Spray_4_2_oz_Aftershave $56.99
George Foreman Portable Propane Grill
https://www.quixtar.com/products/product.aspx?itemno=609859D4 $49 retail / $44 IBO/member
http://www.walmart.com/catalog/product.gsp?dest=9999999997&product_id=2643668&sourceid=0100000030660805002498 $59.96
WOW we even beat WALMART in something!!
I don't have time to go over anymore. You'll have to do your own research.
Here's a post I made on prices a while ago, but it got filtered due to the links, I hope it works this time...
-nope got filtered again, so I'm taking out the links.
*the stuff I buy mostly is equal to or cheaper than the competition, such as protein bars, XS, and Quality vitamins. Thats the case with the make-up and many other products too...
Protein Bars:
vitafly. com/pureproteinbar. html Retail $2.50 Sale: $2.23/bar
global-nutrition-inc. Retail price: $35.88 Sale price: $27.99 -12 bars
Nutrilite Protein bars: Retail $21 for 9bars - $17/ 9 bars ($1.88/bar) IBO/Member cost
quixtar. com/
Red Bull Energy Drink
needmorebeer. com/energy. $54.57 / 24pack
XS Energy Drink
quixtar. com $23.99 retail / $20.40 IBO/Member cost -12pack
IBM Thinkpad T20 Internet Ready Intel P III 700 MHZ 128MB 10-12G
$385.00 - SHOP. COM (QUIXTAR PARTNER STORE)
check froogle. google. com/(to compare the others)
Cool Water Gift Set (4.2 oz cologne & 4.2 oz aftershave)
quixtar. com $61 retail / $54.99 IBO/Member
fragrancenet. com Over $70 total
epinions. com Fragrances- $56.99
George Foreman Portable Propane Grill
quixtar. com $49 retail / $44 IBO/member
walmart. com $59.96
WOW - we even beat WALMART in something!!
I don't have time to go over anymore. You'll have to do your own research.
Hmm, I don't eat protein bars or drink energy drinks, nor do I wear much cologne. I buy a computer maybe once every few years, and that IBM Thinkpad is nothing I'd purchase right now. So that leaves the Foreman Grill as the one thing I might purchase that Quixtar has that is a better deal. And even then, I'd buy one and hopefully never buy one again.
A better comparison might be on stuff Tony keeps saying we should plan for, like toothpaste and toilet paper. These are items that everyone (or at least I hope so) has to buy from somewhere. I contend that Quixtar is significantly more expensive on these and other necessities, and while saving money on a grill once in a lifetime is a benefit, it's not worth signing up as an IBO for.
"WOW - we even beat WALMART in something!!"
Not in convenience you didn't, My friends just arrived in town and are coming over tonight, I want to grill...TONIGHT I am going to WALMART tonight, and buy a grill tonight...unless, well when can I get it from Quixtar??....2-10 days shipping? How much is shipping cost to Alaska?..wow that much. Huh, well my burgers won't get cooked that way.
And no Tony, you can't always plan ahead, some times in life convencience is all we want. I would say that your business is not all that convenient, heck I can't even check out many prices on the Quixtar website without an IBO#. Walmart has no such restrictions.
Well dmm I will have to take you on about the toothpaste. Sure Glister is a lot more expensive but at the risk of sounding like a product demo, try this with your Crest or whatever you use:
Get a piece of plexi and rub some of your product around in a small area. Then do the same with Glister. You'll see it is much less abrasive. However, Glister is more effective due to the uniform size and nature of the polishing particles.
Tonybot, Mikebot, Embot:
You boys have been so focused on the redeeming qualities of Glister toothpaste, that you forgot to address MY point.
That point being, there are better ways to invest your money outside of Q*
Again, I re-post:
"So, those that choose to forego A/Q and invest that money in a mix of Stock and/or Bond mutual funds* are most likely SAVING money in terms of opportunity costs.
The S&P has historically* provided solid returns over a long period of time.
So, I am baffled when those choosing A/Q over simple dollar-cost-averaging investing think that they are choosing the better alternative. Or when the ambots say "Hey, that's cool if our opportunity isn't for you"
Not only is it not for me, it really isn't for YOU either!!! Wake up!
I'll take my 8-12% returns every year and double my money every 6-9 years.
If you ambots aren't into slow and steady asset growth, then hey, that's cool....
..but why not???????????
*I am not endorsing any particular fund, nor am I stating that past performance is indictative of future returns."
Just think of all the Glister you could buy when you are MAKING money from REAL investments.
Hey M&M
Ever here of Randy Glascock, Greg Janke and Nick Olnick. They are were all once diaomonds. Now they barely qualify for thier Q-12 cqs.
Nope Frank, I did not "here" of them.
df, I've done much much better with my investments than your 8% return with doubling your money in 9 years. But thanks anyway for the suggestion.
Glister toothpaste? To me, tasted awful. I've been a Crest user since as far back as I can remember, and nary a cavity in the past 20 years. Did always brush when I was a kid and had some problems, but once the permanent teeth came in, I started to take care of them and now I only go to the dentist twice a year to get cleanings.
Is Glister a better product? Maybe, but I've more then satisfied with what I'm currently using, and the results speak for themself. And the product I use cost me significantly less.
Hey M&M,
Did you hear that in Canada, they now have same-sex marriage? What do you think of that?
Embot>"I've done much much better with my investments than your 8% return with doubling your money in 9 years. But thanks anyway for the suggestion"
Really?
I'd love to hear about it.....care to share, or would you like to leave yet ANOTHER claim go UNSUBSTANCIATED ?!?!?
EMBOT:"Lawdawg was wrong.
According to his reasoning there would be only 10 at EDC or above. I know for a fact that would not be true. Where does he pull the number for total number of distributors (for 2001)? From a corporate PR piece??
"
Uhhh . . yes. . . that's exactly where I got it from. It's from an official press release by Quixtar. Do you think they'd deliberately or carelessly understate the number of IBOs that are signed up?
Why would they? If anything, they would have an incentive to OVERstate the number of IBOs.
So I'm not wrong unless Quixtar is wrong.
BECAUSE THOSE ARE QUIXTAR'S OWN NUMBERS.
Look I don't care where you get your numbers. The fact is Worldwide (and maybe some other lines) was not on Direct Fulfillment and the percentages are based only on those that were. Therefore you'd end up with very few EDCs, etc., less than you even stated. I can prove there were more. In fact, we can ALL agree who would have obviously been at that level and above. I listed some of them. So your presumption is wrong.
Unless it is interpreted at people who "achieved" those levels for 2000-2001 (new pins).
EMBOT: "Look I don't care where you get your numbers."
Of course you say that. You can't refute them because I got them from Quixtar.
You can't prove a damn thing and you know it, Em. I can, however. And I have.
You need not appeal to hearsay or speculation. You can take Quixtar's own official data and caluculate that there is about 31 people at the pin level of diamond and above at any one time.
It's math.
Deal with it.
Oh my God I cannot believe a supposed intelligent person like yourself CANNOT comprehend THE FACT THAT WORLDWIDE WAS NOT ON DIRECT FULFILLMENT IN 2001 WHICH TOTALLY invalidates your theory!
THAT PDF CLEARLY STATED the numbers are percentages of those on DIRECT FULFILLMENT!
GOT THAT???
OH MY GOD, I CAN'T BELIEVE THAT YOU HAVEN'T NOTICED THAT THE NUMBERS I'M USING ARE QUIXTAR'S NUMBERS FROM 2002 AND AFTER!
Nice try, Embot.
Math rules.
31 - read it and weep cultboy.
LOL.
Now THAT is fricking funny.
Embot, you got slammed so hard, LawDawg absolutely obliterated the backboard.
That was worth the trip back to the archives.
Lawdaug, are you getting Alzheimers like Keith?
I will spell it out for you v-e-r-y s-l-o-w-l-y...
Go look at that pdf document, the one you cited with the percentages. THAT is a 2001 Average Annual Earnings document. The percentages are based on DIRECT FULFILLMENT IBOs ONLY ---ONLY!!!!! FOR 2001!
Worldwide was not on Direct Fulfillment. Can you tell me when WWG was on Direct Fulfillment???
IT DOESN'T MATTER what number you give for total number of IBOs you got from the Corporation. It doesn't matter if you are correct to the single digit! BECAUSE YOU CANNOT INCLUDE WORLDWIDE numbers on those percentages because it's talking about Direct Fulfillment ONLY!
"The following are approximate percentages of Direct Fulfillment IBOs of
record in North America who achieved these levels of success in the calendar
year ending December 31, 2001."
YES THAT'S RIGHT. It says DIRECT FULFILLMENT IBOs. In the year ending December 31, 2001.
You lose.
Em,
If you have a large enough subset of the total population you can estimate the true percent of the total population to within a very high confidence interval. A sample size as large as the number of IBO's who are on direct fulfillment is more than large enough to estimate the true percent for the entire population of all IBO's. Do you know anything about statistics?.
Why do you think the percent chance of achieving diamond would be any different for those not on direct fulfillment, than it would be for those on it. There is no statistically significant difference to set these two groups apart when estimating the mean of the chance to achieve diamond. Your argument holds no water.
Keep plugging away Em. You aren't convincing anybody.
It's a perc
I know...........
What you look like after taking the regular dosage of Double-X.
Clifford :D
Posted by: Clifford J. Phillips | July 2, 2005 6:08 AM