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July 25, 2005
Monday Reader Mail: 52
By QBlog in Reader Mail
Screw the 70% Rule. It's too complicated to understand. It makes my head hurt. Just don't fill your garage with products and you'll be fine. Right?
name: Jerry
date: July 21, 2005
message: Ok, I've been getting the pitch. When I brought up the 70% rule they chuckled.When I explained the The Mich Att. Gen made it clear this was a very important point to make a MLM legal, I was told that the AG didn't know what he was talking about. That nobody sells, you just buy what you need.
things that make you go hmmmmm.
What the hell do those Attorneys General know about Multilevel Marketing anyway?
Comments
XS can be sold in Bars, Fitness Centers, Gyms, Restaurants, etc. It cannot be sold at convenient stores. It must be poured into another container, it cannot be sold in the can, or by the case. This is to protect the average IBO. If an IBO had connections and got XS in a retail chain like Walmart, then it would make it near impossible for other IBOs to sell the product.
The business was designed to give the average person a chance to own their own business, and these rules are in place to keep the playing field level. The "Have a Blast" is because we do not advertise with traditional methods. A bar owner, however does not have to call it "Blast", they can call it XS- and he doesn't have to hide the can, the logo just cannot be displayed when selling the product.
Hope this clears some things up.
I'm not sure if they intentionally misled you, they may have thought you were refering to the types of retail establishments where you Can sell XS, such as restaurants, bar&grills, gyms, etc. Maybe you should have looked into places such as that. I have a friend making about $7-800 a month, with some bar/restaurant accounts.
But if you think you were lied to, I'm sorry. But could you please say "how SOME Qx recruiters will..." - because I do not lie to or mislead my prospects."
Hmmm....pouring into cups, renaming it 'Blast', not selling directly to bars -- this all seems pretty convoluted and complex.
Why not just rep an honest product in an honest 9-to-5 J-O-B???
Oh, that's right, the energy drink sales are a smoke screen for the REAL bizness -- tool sales!!! Now I remember.....
The energy drink is supposed to validate the big Q as a real biz. Kinda like vitamins and or soap in the days of the big A.
And we all know that worked well......
"If an IBO had connections and got XS in a retail chain like Walmart, then it would make it near impossible for other IBOs to sell the product."
In the real business world, if an IBO had connections and got XS in a retail chain like Walmart, that IBO would be rewarded handsomely.
LOL. Tony you're a mess dude! Why haven't you answeredany of MY questions? I asked what you were making from this business after taxes and expenses. No response. I asked why all you Quixstar IBO's consider people prospects and not people? No Answer. What school did you get your BA from business in? Because quite frankly you have no idea how a real business works. Finally why do you not tell people right away it's Quixtar? You say it's because people "perceive" it negatively. Why do you think that is? Why when you answer a question you bring up what Paul Kopecky is doing or what you upline and friend has done? They have nothing to do with the questions I've directed towards you.
Big Dog,
You have to understand a couple of things about "Tony".
Tony has been trained by the best in this so called business. So to understand how IBO's answer questions one has to go back to how the upline teaches them to respond to peoples questions.
IBO's hate to be asked questions. period. They consider people that ask questions not teachable.
They will do one of two things when asked a question. One they will answer with another question or two they will not answer it at all. Pleeing ignorant seems to be an IBO's best friend.
If Quixtar was a real retailer this would not be an issue. I would say the big reason an IBO is not allowed to market, display, or sell there products in a real way is due to Quixtar not really wanting to focus on retail sales to the outside world.
XS and their other home farmed product lines are primarily for IBO consumption. Competition and diverse marketing is what real world retail is built on, IBO's are not advised to focus on any form of actual marketing except word of mouth, so they are not real retailers. They exist on there own cross section of a market they created within.
Quixtar and its Distributer groups have to keep that market close to home (other IBO's) so they can keep their tape sales and cult like mentality strong.
Tony>The business was designed to give the average person a chance to own their own business, and these rules are in place to keep the playing field level.
df> Hmmm....pouring into cups, renaming it 'Blast', not selling directly to bars -- this all seems pretty convoluted and complex.
Why not just rep an honest product in an honest 9-to-5 J-O-B???
Oh, that's right, the energy drink sales are a smoke screen for the REAL bizness -- tool sales!!!
Df's response says it all. I have been baffled with why AQ would tie that hands of their own "I" BO's . The "level playing field" concept has such a altruistic sound to it. But if true business concepts were realized by the "I"BO's, then the cat would truly be out of the bag.
So much secrecy! Just market you product in an open and honest way and be proud of it.
BTW, there are AQ products on Ebay. Are these people violating AQ rules?
Ebay rocks! It is truly a market that truly shows how much things can be to people. Also, it gets ride of all the middlemen. I'd consider buying an AQ product from Ebay for that reason alone. Ebay is truly an example of successful e-commerce.
Tony said "and he doesn't have to hide the can, the logo just cannot be displayed when selling the product."
That sounds handy as all hell.
Tony, what a doorknob of a business. Selling a can of overhyped Red Bull, taking care not to display the label.
Stick a fork in this business folks. It's a loser.
Inquiring mind, actually selling AmQuix products on eBay is a violation of some rule maybe SA4400?? Anyway I actually won't knock the XS energy drink because it is actually quite good. The best thing is becuase of eBay I can get a case of this for between $12.00-$15.00 which includes tax and deposit and I never have to deal with Quixtar or the IBO's that try to sell it to me for $35.00 lol. eBay RULES!!!!! Quixtar will NEVER be able to take eBay down so for any of you who happen to like any Quixtar products but hate dealing with Quixtar itself, jump on eBay you'll get the stuff at half price and never be prospected it's great!!!
What a bunch of BS! I have answered those questions! I said numerous times after ALL expenses, I'm at zero, maybe alittle above or below from month to month.
I never saw a question about prospects or people - but I do call people "people", and if a person is interested in becoming an IBO he/she is both a person AND a prospect, not all people are prospects - so when an IBO refers to a prospect, it means a person that is a potential business partner.
Some people have a perceived negative view, becaase of site like this. Some people might not say Quixtar 1st thing out of their mouth because Quixtar is the SUPPLIER!
When I made a reference earlier to McDonalds, and Goldern state foods as Their supplier - someone said "how come McDonalds isn't afraid to say that its McDonalds" - thats my point, they talk about McDonalds! The name of Ray Kroc's company, he didn't go around talking about his supplier, Golden State Foods. Each IBO owns his own business. Qx is the supplier. If someone asks me about it, I'll say yea,its Qx. Qx is just a company, most of the negatively is toward the OPTIONAL training systems anyways.
Why do I bring up Paul Kopecky, my sponsors and other friends, etc - because @$$holes like you are trying to say this doesn't work, and I'm giving examples about people I know or have met that would disagree!!
If Paul posted on here and said "yea, I got in 3 years ago at age 20, and to date my best month is $22,000 - I make about $6,000 a month and I plan to retire when I graduate college." Would that make a difference? "lil pup", what do You know about real business anyways? You owned one, or just work for one. Hate to tell you, Qx IS a real business, whether you want to think it is or not :P
And Dawson! Who the hell are YOU to say what a "real way" is?? Like I give a sh!t what YOU think. How many times do I have to say it (listen up McCheese)- Qx is set-up to give the average person the chance to own their own business and be entrepeneurs. And they are guidelines to follow so that the playing field is equal. So someone with some buck$, just can't buy up a bunch of TV ads and advertise Their website.
Dawson, you weren't ever an IBO, so don't tell me Qx doesn't like IBOs focusing on retail sales. Its volume you moron - more retail sales means profit!! Qx would love it if every bar & gym was carrying XS! They'd love it if every company used the Gift & Incentive albums!
Your last statement is inane - Qx having increased retail sales has nothing to do with the ability of the training systems to sell tools. The more flow of PV thru businesses would probably only mean more tool flow anyways!
But curiously enough, Goldern state foods does not provide the business license for McDonalds..
Where is your business license Tony?
Xs for $1 a can - someone is losing money - probably some dum@$$ critbot who bought 1000pv worth of XS to make it to some qualifier, heard that someone made $ on the tools, decided to quit and now is trying to liquidate his stock. You won't find that for long when it cost $20.40 a can IBO cost.
Also, rocket, "taking care not to display the label". Are you implying when the bartender is pouring it? Are you out of your freakin mind?? How big of an @$$hole are you, really? How tough is this to understand. You simply cannot display the logo - that means NO SIGNS, no cans ON DISPLAY! You can pour the can just the way a bartender would pour a can of redbull into a glass. You can say "yea, this is XS" - why are you people trying to make this out to be something its not? YOU JUST CAN'T DISPLAY THE LOGO, OR SELL IT IN THE CAN!
Do you understand that now, any questions?
Their are guidelines regarding advertising, and OTC sales at retail establishments.
It's amazing how pissed off you get Tony. Why must you degrade people who disagree with you? You ain't making shit from Quixtar or Tonyinternational or whatever the hell you call your company that Quixtar supplies lol. How can you agrue any points if your at $0?????? Maybe Paul Kopecky should take up the agruement??? If your at $0 and losing money how the hell can you say it works?????? Paul can say it works, you can't!
What do I know about business??? LOL obviously a lot more than you. First rule of business, and listen closely, is to MAKE money not lose it or worry about tax write off's. I don't even think that's business I think it's common sense, something you've obviously been stripped of by the likes of the brainwashing diamonds at the top of the Am/Quix scam you call a business lol.
How old are you anyway?? 22, 23? I feel bad for you Tony. I think I speak for everyone here when I say we're not trying to put you down we're just trying to help you get you mind back to thinking rationally and thinking for yourself.
Typical IBO, your not making anything, someone asks you "how are you doing in the business" They either answer with "Oh well Charlie Durso, Larry Winters, Bill Britt or whoever makes $125,000 a month" or my favorite "It's not where I am it's where I'm going" Do you know where your going? You're going Broke!!
Back on target with the post, the 70% rule is not followed in most LOS's. It is something that is there as the "legal mumbo-jumbo" to get the law enforcement off their back. If it is in print, they are OK unless someone REALLY messes up. Q can always differ to the rules and suggest that THAT person did not follow them and shame on them.
It is one of rules that is actually laughed at in some LOS's, just like the ripping on the message at the end of each 'To Approach Perceived Evidence of Cult Doctrine' (TAPE/CD). Doug Weir pokes nice fun at that rule on the tape "Boats Don't Have Breaks" (JM33) when he says 'I don't know if this will ever come out on tape, but if it does, I'll help the editors...While the techniques and approaches.....'
When such a rule (70% or otherwise) is made humerous, it removes the obligation to follow the rule by turning it into a joke every time it is brought up.
BTW, Tony, you have pointed out a whooping three people in that post that have made money (Yes, I know there are more). After 1 year, you are still at zero. I have 2 questions for you.
1. How long will you keep priming the pump at zero?
2. What is the AVERAGE person PROFITING the business? (When I do science experiments, if one value is way high up and everything else is rather precise, I do a student T's test and THROW OUT THE OUTLIERS. i.e. what can the average Joe expect to clear?
Tony>"Qx is set-up to give the average person the chance to own their own business and be entrepeneurs. And they are guidelines to follow so that the playing field is equal"
I thought being average equated to being a loser and making $115 bucks a month as an IBO? What ever happened to excelling past the average?
Quixtar doesn't love the product line or IBO enough to actually allow true market growth by usual means though eh?
F- off Tony you excitable cultist, You care enough about what I say to rant like I ran over your malnurished dog on my way to a plan showing.
I am free of your shady world so I can say anything I like. And I say your business is a mockery of free enterprise.
I'm sorry, but these advertising rules are simply retarded and just make it harder to sell the damn drink.
If a bar can't display the XS logo, who the hell is going to ask for it? XS doesn't advertise at all! Compared to Red Bull, it's brand recognition is pathetic! Even if people know about XS they're not going to know that a particular bar carries Xs bcause it's not displayed anywhere!
T> The business was designed to give the average person a chance to own their own business, and these rules are in place to keep the playing field level.
T>This is to protect the average IBO.
T> Qx is set-up to give the average person the chance to own their own business and be entrepeneurs.
DI> Tony, do you even realize how much you're contradicting yourself here? You say that this business gives people a chance to be entrep[reneurs, when in fact, by limiting the IBO's options it SUPPRESSES ACTUAL ENTREPRENEURSHIP! Can't you see how ridiculous this is?
You know, for a business that tells it's people that it's the epitome of free enterprise, the actual rules are damn close to COMMUNISM.
T> If an IBO had connections and got XS in a retail chain like Walmart
DI> Tony, WalMart would NEVER pick up XS. WalMart is too damn efficient to deal with individual IBOs, and two separate delivery systems (Qx --> IBO, IBO --> WM). Moreover, even with the supposedly "wholesale" prices that XS goes for, it's still too overpriced for Walmart to pick up.
Hey "lil pup" - can planes be flown? Pretty simple question right, can planes fly? Yea, I think I can say planes can fly. Now does the fact that I can't fly a plane mean that planes can't fly, or that I can't say they can?
This business can work! Whether I'm making $150 a month, or $150,000 that fact remains the same - this business can work - it might not work for YOU, it might not work for your brother, but it can work, and it IS working for guys like Paul that started just 3 years ago. and guys like my sponsor who also started about 3 years ago.
Did you graduated college after 1.5 years? So that fact that I've been in, not even Active, just sign-up for over a year, almost 2, and haven't made a lot of $ i should quit? You don't have (say it with me) Busines Owner Mentality. If my buddy who owns a paintball store had quit after 24 months of seeing no profit, he'd be working construction still. but he perservered, and now has a succesful profitable shop.
Oh, and maybe you haven't been around awhile - but me and df, rocket, and a couple others don't get along real well - so I might have a tendancy to lay into them. But lets be honest: rocket, with his comments on XS and having to hide the label while pouring comment, was trying to make us look bad, it was an attack and a lie, and I will take that personal and call him what he is - an a$$hole! And Dawson for thinking that Qx, doesn't want IBOs retailing is a moron. Se they call me Tonybot, and say I know nothing about business and can't think for myself, and talk condescending to me all the time. See i tried to be civil at first, but now I just call'em like I see 'em.
And no I'm NOT going broke! I know where I'm going - I'll send you a postcard!
T> You don't have (say it with me) Busines Owner Mentality.
DI> Tony, people with actual "Business Owner Mentalities" (let's drop the tapespeak and call them what they are -- entrepreneurs) anyway, real entrepreneurs would not deal with the entrepreneur-suppressing bullshit that Quixtar forces upon its IBOs. No real entrepreneur is going to be told that he can't advertise or sell his product to ANYONE who wants it.
Oh Tony, Tony... I am sure Quixtar would love for you to retail, it just ties your hands behinds your back, dips your feet in cement, and steals your wallet in the process.
They don't really care, they make money off the inital IBO tool package thats bought upon recruitment, even if said IBO quits after a week. Getting the IBO is the tool sale to the upline, thats where the majority of cash comes, tools (insert Tony's sorry textbook analogy here) right?
I have been here a few weeks and your arguments have nothing new to offer, its the same cult regurgitaion over and over.
Can work and will work are two different things, I can win the lottery, I can fall off a bridge and live, we can try to talk sense into you... Will any of those things work out? It is NOT LIKELY, the same as most folks making it in your business.
Tony this whole thing of businesses losing money the first couple of years is a crock. You get that from all those CD's and books Quixtar says you MUST have if you want to succeed. Therefore they'll keep you in longer and take more of your money since they tell you "most businesses don't see a profit for the first 5 years"
If that statement was true,those companies wouldn't be in business very long. One other question my naive friend. What kind of business advice do these diamonds give you? They never talk about 'HOW' you run a successful business. They know how they get paid and that's what they talk about.
I hope someday you see the error of your ways and come to grips with reality. It'll be for your own good. Reality is a wonderful thing, you should try it sometime.
Tony,
You mentioned that your friend is a ruby making $5000 to $6000 a month. If he is, that's great.
I just want to understand what kind of volume he's doing in order to achieve this income.
Let's say he does minimal PV/BV for a Ruby.
That's 15,000 PV. 1 PV costs about 2.50
so he's moving about $37,500 in product/mo.
15,000 PV = approximately 30,000 BV.
25% of 30,000 BV = $7500.
So if your friend pays out about $1500 to $2500 in downline bonuses, he would be left with about $5000 to $6000 a month.
Is this correct? If it is, then your friend has a very exceptional business and would certainly not be typical of a direct distributor, but I know that IBO's are discouraged from inquiring about other people's income so I'm not sure how or why your upline would mention how much he's earning.
Tony,
Are you allowed to link your name to the Quixtar Facts page? just curious.
X
Tonybot>And no I'm NOT going broke! I know where I'm going - I'll send you a postcard!
They sell postcards at the POORHOUSE???
Ha, Tonybot, make sure you send me one too.
Joecool18,
There seems to be this mysterious MLM line where over a certain amount they actually FLAUNT how much they make in the efforts of motivating you to sign up. Of course, they NEVER liked being asked...
That brings me to a real funny story of when I was a brainwashed IBO. My upline Emerald always said that if someone asks you how much money you make, ask them to see their checkbook. Of course, most people won't do that, so you save face. One guy did show me his checkbook. I saw his checkbook and then I had to tell him that I was not making any money and then I noticed that his checkbook had a lot more money than mine. And I was core!! Several plans a week, since Q started to enforce the 10 M/C rule, I never missed it, but still I made nothing!
I was researching another MLM and the two guys who were showing me the thing and answering my questions kept telling me how much they were making. One was about 3,000 a month and the other about 12,000 a month. One level apart....I like the treatment that Jon Taylor did on the 5 red flags report showing how that much bonus differential occurs among people so close in the LOS...Just a thought.
Tony knows where he is going. He is going to move from his trailer into a shleter for homeless. He is going to become a street trash from trailer trash... Wonder if they have postcards at the 'shelter'?
Tony says this business can work, and then references people such as Paul and others whom he has encountered in this business.
Tony, I would like to hear from these others. Why don't you tell them about this site and ask them to give their testimonies? I am new to this site, so maybe you have done this in the past, but somehow, I doubt it. Did you have imaginary friends growing up, Tony? I am just wondering if these successful people you are referencing are part of that childhood imagination. Honestly, as a business owner, I have to tell you that I do not have a business degree, but my business is doing very well. I have never made $0.00 at the end of the month and I am going to let you in on a little secret as to why that is....I own a real business that makes real money from selling an actual service (not from pushing pv). Also, I have heard you say that Quixtar is a real business; that you have a real business. If that is so, do you have a corporation, LLC, sub corp? Did you file with your state government and get a tax id #? Just curious.
Good Point southern.
Tony how does your DBA read? I'm sure you filled out the proper forms since you own your own business right?
Legitimate businesses may impose terms and conditions on their ‘franchisers’ that prevent the local markets from being saturated, cutting profits as a whole. Profits = reason for having a business. Nothing to do with ‘level playing fields.’ No such worry with Quixtar, is there? Recruit everything that moves (at least try to).
Now, ‘level playing field’ rules and restrictions (i.e.- laws) are not intended to protect business owners. They are intended to protect the consumer (no, not the ‘pro-sumer’). Please keep that in mind ANYTIME you hear it (scary Walmart!).
You know, I’d probably be OK with the Quixtar business model if the 70% rule meant at least 70% of the truth. You don’t have to dig far to see that’s not enforced.
Dawson, ONCE AGAIN, shows his Ignorance of this business - buddy, Qx doesn't see any tool money! Qx has nothing to do with tools! So glad you're getting the facts before speaking. Glad you've been here for a few weks, go back to the archives and start around April and read some of those articles, (same goes to lil pup and the other newbies). You'll find some good stuff.
And yes, Don IBOs can advertise, but it has to be local and their are guidleines involved with it. But since you're not an IBO, you wouldn't know that.
Lil pup, I learned in COLLEGE that most business fail in the 1st 5 years - and my example of the paintball store not makng $$ for 2 years isn't tapespeak, Einstein - its REAL LIFE! The guy told me he didn't see a paycheck for 2 years! What is your problem?
joe18, you're right, $5,000 a month isn't typical of a directship, but he's not a direct - He's a Ruby! And I'm curious why your #s changed, first 15,000pv = $37,500, then its 15,000 = 30,000bv. Well if 1pv = $2.50 BV, like you said, then 15,000pv = $37,500BV. Right? And lets say he's not 15,000, but 20,000pv - that would be 50,000bv. 25% of that is $12,500... Qx pays out about $7,000 to his downline, and he makes about $5500. Plus he gets the $10,000 Q-12 bonus, and the free trip, etc. See there's stuff, some of you guys don't even know about.
You're right he does have an exceptional busness, and he started at ZERO, and built it to where it is. Crazy huh? Not to mention he's got a downline Platinum so he's seeing a 4% training bonus in there.
Oh, and just because you're discouraged from asking someone how much they make doesn't mean someone can't offer it on their own. He stated during a training session when asked if he was making at least a few thousand/month at Ruby, he said, "oh yea, its more like $5-6,000/month! Thats not bragging, that simply stating what its doing for him. People always want real life examples, not "this is what you could make".
X, i'll look into that when I get a chance.
And df, if I was a lowlife scuz bag like you, I'd probably make some off color joke about "poorhouse" ryhming with something else, and how I'd probably send a postcard from there of your mom to you, but I'll leave that one alone.
Take care :P
One more teeny tiny question about Quixtar. Do IBO's have to write out an actual business plan with a market analysis and so forth? I would like to see one of their plans; what on earth would it say? Do IBO's ever have to contact the SBA about their business to get a loan or something? Oops, I guess that makes two more questions. I am just trying to see if an IBO goes through the same steps that other small business owners go through.
Tony> joe18, you're right, $5,000 a month isn't typical of a directship, but he's not a direct - He's a Ruby! And I'm curious why your #s changed, first 15,000pv = $37,500, then its 15,000 = 30,000bv. Well if 1pv = $2.50 BV, like you said, then 15,000pv = $37,500BV. Right? And lets say he's not 15,000, but 20,000pv - that would be 50,000bv. 25% of that is $12,500... Qx pays out about $7,000 to his downline, and he makes about $5500. Plus he gets the $10,000 Q-12 bonus, and the free trip, etc. See there's stuff, some of you guys don't even know about.
Joecool18> 15,000 PV = 30,000 BV. Based on 2.50 = 1PV, you need to spend about $37,500 to get 15,000 PV.
Also, a ruby is still a direct distributor, as is a diamond. (i.e. Diamond Direct/Ruby Direct)
Tony, how many people are in your friend's downline? 100?
Tonybot, you are one funny little guy.
You have a pile of questions being fired at your and instead of answering them, you make a dirty momma joke.
The only joke here is....YOU !!!
I usually don't wish ill on people, but I really do hope you lose what little savings you have.
You are lost, beyond saving, the only way you will learn is to lose it all.
Tony "I learned in COLLEGE that most business fail in the 1st 5 years - and my example of the paintball store not makng $$ for 2 years isn't tapespeak, Einstein - its REAL LIFE! The guy told me he didn't see a paycheck for 2 years! What is your problem?"
Your friend must've been well off huh? Mommy and daddy give him a ton of money?? I don't know anyone that could go without a paycheck for 2 years and afford to pay the expenses of everyday life.
Well Tony as much as I love debating this issue with you, alas, my workday is over. Now it's off to the gym, then to the house I own and my beautiful wife while I sip down a cold one and watch the game. Life is good, reality is better!
T> And yes, Don IBOs can advertise, but it has to be local and their are guidleines involved with it.
DI> What kind of guidelines? How can IBOs advertise? In my book, (i.e. an actual business owner's book) not being able to show that your product is being sold in a bar is a CRIPPLING restriction.
But Tony, you ignored my main point, which was about restricting IBOs' abities to distribute their product by not allowing them to sell it to stores. I'm going to repost what I said again, because I'd like to know what you think about this. (Everyone else, sorry for reposting but I really want my questions answered, not ignored.)
T> Qx is set-up to give the average person the chance to own their own business and be entrepeneurs.
DI> Tony, do you even realize how much you're contradicting yourself here? You say that this business gives people a chance to be entrepreneurs, when in fact, by limiting the IBO's options it SUPPRESSES ACTUAL ENTREPRENEURSHIP! Can't you see how ridiculous this is?
You know, for a business that tells it's people that it's the epitome of free enterprise, the actual rules are damn close to COMMUNISM.
T> You don't have (say it with me) Busines Owner Mentality.
DI> Tony, people with actual "Business Owner Mentalities" (let's drop the tapespeak and call them what they are -- entrepreneurs) anyway, real entrepreneurs would not deal with the entrepreneur-suppressing bullshit that Quixtar forces upon its IBOs. No real entrepreneur is going to be told that he can't advertise or sell his product to ANYONE who wants it.
df, you need to check the scorebook asswad - you've said some pretty shitty stuff to me and Eagle - funny how you can dish it out but can't take it. Says alot of you! Not to mention I believe I'm still adressing questions while throwing the occasional insult back to your deserving little ass.
And deb, no I didn't write out a business plan, Qx already has a business plan - its called the 6-4-2 marketing plan.
Joe, when you say "he's a direct" it usually means 7500pv, we just call that platinum now. If your Diamond, you just say Diamond. But I'm not worried abot semantics, I'm just saying, he's not just a direct, he's a Ruby.
And 1pv = 2.5 BV, so honestly 15,000pv is closer to 37,500 BV. How many people does he have total - I have no idea, he's crossline, just the same open, so I'm not at his team meetings, or have close contact with, etc. But I would think its more than 100 on his total team. Maybe 100 coming to meetings/ functions, but total group is probably closer to 400. Maybe 250 active.
Tony,
1. How long will you keep priming the pump at zero?
2. What is the AVERAGE person PROFITING in the business? (When I do science experiments, if one value is way high up and everything else is rather precise, I do a student T's test and THROW OUT THE OUTLIERS. i.e. what can the average Joe expect to clear?
X
Tony, honey. I hate to burst your bubble. That really cannot be a very good plan. Honestly, you use this generic plan that Quixtar hands down to all of the IBO's. How do you expect to get investors with that, sweetie? How do you expect to impress people with that plan? I am only asking this because I have dealt with IBO's, and when I ask them to show me their business plan, out comes the dry erase board and plug ins for books like "Who Stole My Cheese".Why have I never seen a hard copy of said plan? Why must it always be "presented"? Is this the 6-4-2 business plan you are speaking of? Tony, baby, that plan is weak, very unimpressive.
Tony, read this: 10 Big lies in MLM
Extraordinary sales and marketing obstacles account for much of this failure, but even if the business were more feasible, sheer mathematics would severely limit the opportunity. The MLM type of business structure can support only a small number of financial winners. If a 1,000-person downline is needed to earn a sustainable income, those 1,000 will need one million more to duplicate the success. How many people can realistically be enrolled? Much of what appears as growth is in fact only the continuous churning of new enrollees. The money for the rare winners comes from the constant enrollment of armies of losers.
http://www.falseprofits.com/MLM%20Lies.html
Imran:"Much of what appears as growth is in fact only the continuous churning of new enrollees. The money for the rare winners comes from the constant enrollment of armies of losers."
And that is precisely what the historical data on Amway/Quixtar demonstrates. The total number of distributors in North America is the same now as it was in 1972. Yet, the business is still promoted as an "exploding" opportunity with phenomenal growth through recruiting. But that's a huge lie, as Quixtar's own numbers demonstrate.
Show of hands . . . .
. . . how many people prospected in North America were told by their recruiter or heard on stage that there was phenomenal business growth in Amway/Quixtar in the United States?
Your business plan is the 6-4-2 plan? Aren't those numbers referring to individual people? But, I thought Amway told the FTC that their primary business was selling products and they agreed not to shut the Amway pyramid down as long as they sold 70% retail and followed other rules. So Tony, do you want to backpedal and rethink that answer? Otherwise you're just proving once again this is in reality just a pyramid scheme and a scam recruiting people to recruit people.
Tony, your saying Quix dosn't see a penny of the start up package money (demo items...etc) You idiot that was my point.
Your right, its the individual Diamonds and above that get the real tool money, sorry if I got the thieves mixed up
Uplines claim "we don't make money untill you do" ITS NOT TRUE. They have initial IBO starter package costs, and they try to shove CD and book orders right from the get go. I have had a would be sponser try it on me!
(Insert Tony's lame "not all IBO's are bad response)
Where does that money go? Why to the Diamond dream of course. Then who cares if the IBO quits, some cash was made off of them no matter what.
(Insert Tony's crappy text book analogy reply)
Of course its preferable if they stay in longer so the sheep can be sheared a bit more, leached, drained and ruined, gasping in wonder at how their life has been destroyed. But thats only an ideal 2-5 year plan.
Keep on faking it untill you make it Tony, your upline loves you for it.
Tony is not who he let's on to be. First of all if he really was an IBO he wouldn't be on this blog. Secondly the overwhelming amount of negative feedback that he gets would have blown out stong of the stongest IBO's a long a time ago.
Nope, Tony is not an average mindless Ambot. Who he is actually I do not know. But I do know he is not who he says he is.
I have not been stung by Quixtar - I've been approached, but turned down the "opportunity." What I see and hear, combined with my business background (bachelor's degree, working at bank headquarters as a financial analyst, co-owner of small accounting company) makes me pause and wonder why Quixtar/Amway is so popular. Tony, I have a serious question - no slinging mud or anything. You said above "I said numerous times after ALL expenses, I'm at zero, maybe alittle above or below from month to month." Why is this a good deal for you? Owners of businesses expect to make at least a living wage after expenses. Basically, you appear to be hovering right around a net gain of zero for a sutained period of time. Why are you in this business if you aren't making any money? Again, I'm not slinging mud, but honestly wondering what the draw is. Thanks in advance for answering.
X, I will succeed because I have said I will never quit. I spend $15 for a website, $31 for 'Kate, $7.50/week for a CD and $3 to go to the Opens - I enjoy the business - I like the products. As long as I can make a measly $100 a month to offset expenses, I'll do it forever. Also, I guess as long as I have downline I'll do it. Cause you never know what a downline might do. The guy who sponsored my sponsor quit when he was like 600pv. Then 2 years later my sponsor's at 9,000pv!! Now the original guy is back in, but without the 1 Platinum HE registered! So for that reason alone, I'd never quit!
Deb, babe, thanks for the concern, but really you should've paid closer attention to the plan - I'm not looking for investors - the company is Debt free, privately held. I think people are impressed enough with the plan. You've never seen a "hard copy" of the plan? - well you should've asked for a Lit pack. Its drawn out nice and simple, with pretty colors and everything. It can be presented with a flip chart too - not all IBOs like using the white board, others do. Its just personal preference. You can say its weak, thats your opinion - maybe you saw it from the wrong person.
Imran, I don't know how many people can be enrolled. But I know at one point in 2001 there were 720,000 IBOs in Qx. Now I'm sure half quit, but more sign-up the next year. You can say theres no growth - and there might be some places with no growth, but I'm watching my local open get bigger and bigger each week. I've heard about other nearby opens growing from from like 25 steady IBOs to over 100 in a year. I've seen my sponsor go from 11 people at functions to like 65! And from 1500pv to 9,000pv! Sounds like growth to me!
And JD, I've already talked about the 70% rule before - i'll touch on it quickly. IBOs do not have to RETAIL 70% of what they buy, that is non-sense, they simply have to use 70% before they can buy more. The rule is to stop "front-loading" to hit certain bonus levels. Buying $1000 of $$ worth of stuff - just to qualify at a certain level.
The rule regarding retail sales put in place by the FTC is the 50 M/C pv rule. Stating that in order to get a differential bonus on downline volume, you must retail 50 pv to m/c, or have $100 of m/c volume, or have 10 different m/c orders. Thats ALL!
The 2 rules would contradict otherwise! As I've said before, the idea that an IBO buying $300 of the stuff they need on a regular basis, would then have to RETAIL $700/month to get a bonus is redicualous!! Get over the "70% rule" - self use in included in that rule - its to stop people (and also protect them) from front-loading.
So no the 6-4-2 is not illegal. and its not a pyramid scheme. Its a franchising model where you get rewarded for creating volume, thru clients or IBOs. If I refer someone to Qx, I DO NOT get paid just for refering them. But when they create volume, I get credit too!
But at my job, if I refer someone, I get a $1000 referal bonus!! Does that make my company a scam or a pyramid? No! its just a referal bonus. The company will benefit, so should I. But its only a 1time bonus! With Qx the bonus is residual. Every month He/She makes $$, I benefit too! So I have an interest in them succeeding!
LMAO @ TONY!!!! What the hell kinda company you working for that gives you a $1,000 referral bonus pal? What's the name of this company I gotta know. Dam your amuzing!
Hey TONY do you even want to consider my question that I posted 3 times above? Or can you not even compute what I said regarding Quixtar's regulations, entrepreneurship, and "business owner mentality?"
Tony,
I know you said that the quixtar 6-4-2 is the business plan, but do you know anyone who actually sponsored 6 who sponsored 4 who sponsored 2?
Also, if the plan works, shouldn't there be a larger number of direct distributors and higher level pins? I believe in reading the stats from amquix, only 1 person out of 122 people ever make it to the direct level. That means a success rate of less than 1%.
I know it's possible to make it big, but if only less than 1% of people ever reach the pinnacle of success (DD or better), don't you think the that's still worse than the 2% who make it (based on the kingpins saying that 98% of all people are dead or broke by age 65).
I'm not a math whiz but I'd rather have a 2% chance of success than less than a 1% chance.
Tony, you do not make any money, and you have even said some months you end a little in the negative. If this is a debt free company, why is it that EVERY IBO I have encountered is struggling. Once I even went to dinner with an IBO; he sat in the booth and did not order any food. He went on to tell me that he did not want to waste money eating out when he needed that money to put back into quixtar. He even told me that he ate ketchup and mustard packets for weeks so he could have extra money fo quixtar. I could go on with countless examples, quixtar is all over the place where I am from. Maybe it is growing, but instead of looking at the numbers of IBO's let's focus more on the general lifestyle, which is broke-ass. Every IBO I have encountered in the public sphere has less than impressed me whether it be with their rented house, broke down vehicle, or refusal to eat at restaraunts (how embarassing!)
I thought I read a comparison to McDonald's, this is the same comparison an IBO made to me. It is like owning a franchise, well, once again, according to Quixtar's own rules, comparing or saying that an IBO is a franchise is wrong. Other things of interest. The 70% rule is covered by the member client rule. When being trained, they tell you to sell at least 50pv a month to make more money. It doesn't say it is the law. Just a lot of deception. Also, if a person has been going to meetings and listening to tapes and reading books for a year, how much training do they need
Talk about not having the facts...
The 70% rule (retail 70% of what you've ordered), the 10 customer rule (must retail to at least 10 unique customers each month) and the buyback rule are what the FTC considered sufficient to pass on the legality of scamway's pyramid scam back in 1979. More precisely, having those rules in place, and the presumtion that they were enforced (actually failure on the part of the FTC to prove they weren't, which does not mean that they WERE, just that the FTC didn't bring the evidence to the hearing) allowed the scam to be called "not illegal" vs "legal".
The first two rules, (70% retailed to at least 10 customers) were requirements for receipt of the bonus each month. Lack of these rules, or enforcement thereof, has been sufficient to close down several scams since then, such as 5-star auto, equinox, trek, etc. A/Q unilaterally altered these rules to 50pv to any customers sometime since, but this has not been reviewed by the FTC. Would they approve? Maybe sometime we'll see.
Don't think that these rules are "necessary" for this scheme to be "legal"? Then WHY is HR1220, sponsored by ambot/quixtard Sue Myrick necessary? It specifically alters federal law to allow personal consumption to be counted toward retail requirements. If it already counted, why would federal law need to be changed to make it so?
SouthernDeb,
Your story is quite amusing. When I was in the business, I got in with the thought of making a few extra bucks, maybe to invest that money. I was debt free and owned a sports car at the time. I remember going to open meetings and seeing all these guys and gals dressed so nicely but after the functions were over, they would hop into broken down jalopies to go home and I would wonder how many people were actually making money.
I'm from Hawaii so major functions in California/Oregon/Washington became very expensive. In fact when I was at the 4000 PV level, I was losing money. I know that people who live on the mainland can drive to some of these functions so their expenses may be lower than mine was but even then the income wasn't worth the time and effort it took to maintain such a business.
Funny how people talk about staying in the business due to friendships. After I stopped going to functions, my upline called me once and no one else from the business ever bothered to call me. Friends forever right?
The fact is, rules are rules. Quixtar does not enforce it, and if you read your training manual, it doesn't refer it to a rule, it says to make more money you should sale 50 pv. Secondly, ibo's comparing being an ibo to a franchise like McDonald's is against the rules too. Quixtar did not change many of the rules when they changed their name from Amway. So All of the rules should be familiar to everyone who stayed in the business.
Tony,
Thanks for the answer to the first question. Take a stab at the second now.
X
Tony
Lame lame lame lame lame.
Can you address the 70% rule?
Your little "planes can fly analogy" is so off the stage into your fragile little brain. Planes flying can be explained with science and rational deduction.
Success in your rinky dink (haha)"business" is so remote and unlikely that nobody can document the success in a rational and clear manner.
I'd like to see someone who has a group of 6-4-2 and is actually MAKING what the plan shows you make at that level.
You are a schmoe trying to impress upon everyone here that you know about what you are talking about. You don't, becaue you don't make $$ at it.
Why aren't your "leaders" here with you, showing us how waaayyyy of we all are?
Are they scared?
Ya know what Rocket?
Tony doesn't even qualify as an ambot. His analogies are outside of the ambot algorithms. Dude is just plain broke.
Tony, from now on, you will be known as...
.....{drumroll}...................
Poorhouse Tony.
That's where you are headed buddy. Thus, your new dubious distinction.
I like how he thinks that his prize products are so easy to sell, yet there's all these restrictions to adhere to.
NOBODY I know who is not in Amway knows what the hell XS is.
Even funnier? When they find out who they have to get it from, they lose their curiosity. Not worth the trouble I suppose.
Yep.. There's the yellow brick road to success. Have a product that might be good, but nobody wants anything to do with the vendor.
Go get 'em Poorhouse Ninja!
You've been in how long and no profit? I don't buy your little paintball store tale either. NOBODY would still have a business open after 2 years who never got a single dime out of it. They would die of starvation or the bank would take it. It's not true, I can tell you that based on what you've shared. It's another sucky story from a sucky story teller.
Except for the loser bots who have lost all hope and are ripe for the skinning. They'll believe you, and chuckle about how wise they were to see this (haha) business, and really get it.
Have fun failing. At least you can decide when to quit.......and you will quit before you become successful.
It's kind of sad in a funny way. If you weren't so arrogant and bully-esque, I'd feel sorry that you will fail.
Now I just feel sorry for everyone you know.
Tony, small businesses HAVE to turn profit FAST. And they usually do, that's the beauty of them. 4-5 friends of mine have purchased franchises. (Petro Canada, Subway, convinience store)
Petre Canada: Whole family worked, took home 500 K / year.
Sold, bought subway. Took home $400 K, but fewer ppl work so per person income is better.
Convinience guy make a good living as well.
My office is a small office as well. We simply can't survive if we get our invoices paid after 5 years.
If I spent like millions, then may be I could wait for some time till I make my initial investment back. BUT I won't tolerate loss much longer. Not many would.
Bill Gates was working in garage for like long time. But he wasn't running at loss ;) He was not spending any money, just his time on his hobby.
A correction (someone will correct me if this is wrong, of course.):
The statistic is not that most companies fail in the first 5 years. The actual statistic is that most companies that fail do so within the first 5 years of their existence.
There really is a difference. The first statement would have us believe that the majority of all businesses fail within their first 5 years. It paints the entire world of traditional business as being less stable than it actually is.
The statistic applies to new start-ups, not to the entire business community.
Also, a business "failure," as defined by AmQuix, includes businesses that:
* closed because the owner retired or died.
* clsed because the business was not intended to go on perpetually.
* closed because the owner decided to move on to a different business.
* closed because the owner wasn't motivated to continue it, not for financial reasons.
There are many reasons why businesses do not necessarily persist. That doesn't necessarily mean they failed.
PW
This is my first post here, so please excuse the length of my pent up need to vent...
>Tony: the idea that an IBO buying $300 of the stuff they need on a regular basis, would then have to RETAIL $700/month to get a bonus is redicualous (sic)!!
>mm: It's not ridiculous, it would approach being a sound, viable business model. Imagine if a McD's (or any other legit business) franchisee followed this same logic: "You mean if I eat 3 burgers, I have to sell 7 to people coming in the door? How absurd!" Setting aside the health issues, he would go broke before the cheese on any of his burgers had a chance to melt.
The fundamental difference between a pyramid scam and a real business is the ability to generate income from CUSTOMERS outside of the business "opportunity." To think the path to riches is through buying stuff primarily for your own use (and teaching others to do the same) is what's truly ridiculous.
As for selling product to bars for re-sale...
My brother is an unfortunate IBO (is there any other kind?) who wanted to sell XS drinks to our cousin's bar. Our cousin has been a successful bar owner/restauranteur for over 30 years. When asked why our cousin might want to stock product that he couldn't promote, thus seriously hampering his ability to make money from carrying it, my brother revealed the real reason for wanting to do this. He figured that the bar staff would try the product, like it, and be encouraged to sign up as IBOs so they could "make money" by buying it from themselves. Actually selling product to paying customers wasn't the goal. If somebody happened to belly-up and order an XS and vodka, great, if not, no big deal.
What kind of messed up sales pitch is that? Why would any establishment agree to stock a product they couldn't market or make any money from? Just so the hard-working staff could be exposed to a seriously flawed business "opportunity"?
Now, if Q* helped "level the playing field" for its IBOs by building brand awareness and creating consumer demand for its products, while allowing IBOs and their customers to publicly promote product as well (like many franchise businesses, including one iconified by arches), it would be an entirely different story--one where there was a chance for everyone involved (Q*, the IBO, the customer) to realize a benefit, not just a select few "bosses" at the top.
Fortunately, a "negative loser" who had run his own successful business for many years talked my brother out of making this ridiculous pitch before he embarassed himself and alienated a close family member. Now if we could just talk him out of "the business" as well....
With all due respect - if Tony is in here trying to sell the business to people that will never be persuaded, how many plans can he be showing? How much product could he be moving? How much money could he be making?
Not much.
If he was as successful as he claims, he would be "running hard" with no time for the "negative people" that are found here in the "armpit of the internet". (I am making "air quotes" each time you see "printed quotes" here)
On the other hand, Tony, I know how you feel, I felt the same way myself - but let me tell you what I found...
"If he was as successful as he claims"
Actually, Tony does not claim to be successful...
If anybody here lives close to Tony, could you check in on him? He hasn't posted in a bit, and I fear he has had a coronary trying to respond to the posts.
Mayor:
Poorhouse Tony is at the grocery store, buying government cheese with his foodstamps.
Your social plans for subsidized cheese consumption is working, sir!
Brilliant!
This blogsite has really become over populated with idiots, not all of you, but the overwhelming majority. Like the moron "Don Incoherent" who thinks making a comment is the same as asking a question! Seriously Don, go back and read the post, where exactly is your question - you made a freakin statement, sorry I didn't answer your COMMENT!
And hillbilly - you are one of MANY who just don't know the rules! You can market the energy drink! Goto to XSgear.com and look at all the over-the-counter stuff you can use to market the drink at bars etc. Get the facts.
Big Dog, are you implying $1000 is too much or too little? I worked for a hospital back in college that gave a $1500 referal bonus!! My cousin got one for refering me! I think $1000 is kinda small. I won't be giving you the name of my company, but unless you live under a rock you've heard of them - use your "imagination".
Joe, the 6-4-2 is a business model - a plan, we say, it rarely works out exactly like this, but it just to demonstrate the volume. I've sponsored More than 6, and my sponsor is like 16 wide! And he has more than 78 downline. do you understand what a "plan" or model is. Obviously it would be hard to time up 6 people sponsorng 6 who all sponsor 4, some might go 5 wide, when someone else is still 3 wide, but if 7500 is coming in thru 6 legs at 1000-1500 each, you're gonna make about $2500! Do the math. oh and Joe, you speak of 1% vs 2%why not increase your odds and do both? And in this you have a more contol of success, in your job, you can be laid off anytime, no security - I already have been once.
Deb, I didn't say every IBO is debt free - I said the COMPANY is debt free. There goes another critbot, twisting words and speaking in half truths!! Alticor is debt free! We're not looking for investors. you may not be ignorant, but you are ignorant of the facts, when its comes to this business.
Deb thanks for sharing your experience with ONE IBO!! I do eat at restaurants, and I own my own car and house! Neither are "broke down".
Rocket my planes example was RIGHT ON! Someone was telling me I can't say the business works, cuz i'm not making money at it, but someone who is, like Kopecky or my sponsor can cause they ARE making good $$. How stupid is that - either it works or it doesn't, just cause I can't fly a plane doesn't mena I can't say "planes can fly". Therefore I can also say, "this business can work" Even though, right now, I'm not making money.
I could cancel my website & 'kate #, not get a CD a week, and never go to any meeting or seminar and my expenses would be $0! Then when I get a check for $200 it would all be profit, but how am I gonna succeed longterm if I'm not being trained? If I'm not getting info from my mentors! If my group sees me not doing anything. Are THEY gonna be on Kate, are they gonna go to trainings, are they gonna have a website? How legit does my business look when I got no website. I'm willing to invest in myself right now. I'm willing to have a website an 800# ('kate), and go to seminars to increase my chances of being successful, cause thats what I'm watching others do! Can't any of you get that? How many of you went into debt for years to go to college?? Can you imagine how dumb someone would have to be to spend $20,000 a year for 3 years and then quit. But some people DO do that right? My friend dropped out after 2 years of college, decided to do something else. Luckily it only cost him about $10,000 to do it.
Rocket the paintball story is true - just like the checks for $124,000 that you didn't believe either. Don't believe, I could really give a shit. I never said he didn't have another stream of income from his wife working. I simply said for 2 years his paintball store didn't see a profit! Now its all they do!
I'm tired of debating the 70% rule. It doesn't say "retail" - i've read it - you're a lieing critbot when you say "RETAIL 70%". Selfconsumption or selling to yourself, counts toward the 70%. The only rule regarding RETAIL sales is the 50pv rule! Not $700!! Just 50pv, or $100, or 10 m/c sales!! Thats it, plain and simple. You buy what you want/need, retail 50pv, teach others the same. Thats how some Diamonds make $124,000 from just Qx in one month!
Why aren't big pins here? I've said it before, they already have been. My sponsor used to come here probably about 2 years ago. He said some people had legitment gripes (cause they are bad aples in Any group), but most were just losers looking to pass blame. Most were just negative minded people, not all. They never listened to his arguements, just called it tapespeak, and insulted him! So he decided not to waste his time and to not to spend so much time associating with negative, and petty-minded people. He statred reading more success principles books and last month was over 8,000pv, made over $3000!
I'm real damn close to following his example. Soon this blog will be nothing but a group of critbots looking like a bunch of complaining, whining losers, for those who are. Some try to make positive critisisms, but i haven't seen one of those in a long time - not since Keith Sr. emailed me.
Sorry if I missed some, but my answers are inconsequential - you guys already have your opinions of all the answers. I just hope I've reached one person who came on here looking for research. I hope they realize that just reading some stangers' rants is not legitament research.
df, cheese and rocket, please keep throwing out the insults - my little sister talks better smack then you. Show me what you really got - better yet, show some of these future IBOs what you guys are really made of! I love it!
I think Tony would be making money if he would duplicate his Upline and not come to this site. He is getting very negative here. You need to get more plans and quit coming here. Unless you are truly looking for true information you don't need to come here. This site is for people wanting information to make decisions and yours is already made.
So then why do you, df, rocket, and xanadustc come here - aren't their decisions already made?? Maybe I'm trying to show another side. Show that its not all horroe stories, that there ARE some LOS that operated openly and honestly.
That we do train on the products and promote retail sales. That I have seen success and have never been forced into anything or putdown for anything, I was or wasn't doing. That my upline ARE helping me, and not saying bad things behind back to try to steal my group!
I've never seen or heard about any of these types of things except for here. Just you 9-10 regular critbots that won't listen to anything, just spits out myths, halftruths and sometimes straight up lies, to discredit us! I'm here for future IBOs.
Tony> This blogsite has really become over populated with idiots, not all of you, but the overwhelming majority.
Imran> That's true, you being one of them. Me the other one.
And so is Quixtar. And world. It's an idiot idiot world.
But some idiots make money, some lose money, some got scammed, some scam others.
What type of idiot are you?
Tony> my little sister talks better smack then you.
Imran> Completely agree. Seriously, if you have to call names, at least be funny. You were funny in the begining but now it's boring. C'mon. Here is an example for the starters:
----------------------------------------------------------
The only thing worse than your logic is your manners. I have snipped away most of what you wrote, because, well... it didn't really say anything. Your attempt at constructing a creative flame was pitiful. I mean, really, stringing together a bunch of insults among a load of babbling was hardly effective... Maybe later in life, after you have learned to read, write, spell, and count, you will have more success. True, these are rudimentary skills that many of us "normal" people take for granted that everyone has an easy time of mastering. But we sometimes forget that there are "challenged" persons in this world who find these things more difficult. If I had known, that this was your case then I would have never read your post. It just wouldn't have been "right". Sort of like parking in a handicap space. I wish you the best of luck in the emotional, and social struggles that seem to be placing such a demand on you.
Tony> I'm tired of debating the 70% rule. It doesn't say "retail" - i've read it - you're a lieing critbot when you say "RETAIL 70%". Selfconsumption or selling to yourself, counts toward the 70%. The only rule regarding RETAIL sales is the 50pv rule! Not $700!! Just 50pv, or $100, or 10 m/c sales!! Thats it, plain and simple. You buy what you want/need, retail 50pv, teach others the same. Thats how some Diamonds make $124,000 from just Qx in one month!
Imran> Ok Tony, here is your 70% rule by MI attorney General.
http://www.michigan.gov/ag/0,1607,7-164--44709--,00.html
AG> "Pyramid scheme" means a sales scheme, Ponzi scheme, chain marketing scheme, or other marketing plan or program in which participants pay money or valuable consideration to the company in return for which they receive:
1. the right to sell a product or service; and
2. the right to receive in return for recruiting other participants into the program rewards which are unrelated to sale of products or services to ultimate users.
For the purposes of this definition, "sale of products or services to ultimate users" does not include sales to other participants or recruits in the multi-level marketing program or to participants' own accounts.
Tony,
I come here to pass along VERIFIABLE information about why this business does not work for the MASSES.
A few comments about your post:
T>And hillbilly - you are one of MANY who just don't know the rules! You can market the energy drink! Goto to XSgear.com and look at all the over-the-counter stuff you can use to market the drink at bars etc. Get the facts.
X> Unless the rules changed in the last 1.5 years ago when I personally CALLED Quixtar and talked to a human being about what I can and can not do to market XS in a bar, he told me (I have posted this material earlier). I brought up all the XSgear things and he said THOSE CAN NOT BE USED TO ADVERTISAE IN A BAR> Those are for YOUR own use, not for commercial use.
Poorhouse Tony>"I hope they realize that just reading some stangers' rants is not legitament research."
DF> That's right, listening to some idiot draw circles and 'get fired up' over PV and BV is not legitimate!!!! Who are these people that buy into that crap? Young naive fools (like Poorhouse Tony) that's who!
Tonybot>"I'm here for future IBOs."
DF> Wow, what a coincidence, I am here for the future IBOs too -- I'm here to help prevent them from making bad decisions (like buying into the flimflam you are selling to them).
If there is anything I can do to show the TRUTH about what you are/are not doing, them I am going to do it.
I am here to take the piss out of your overhyped system and exaggerated income claims. Every now and then I can talk a little smack and have fun with you self-righteous amroid idiots.
And things are moving pretty well. At least once a month someone comes in here looking to make a decision -- it always seems that they walk away saying 'Gee I am glad I found this sight, I'll avoid these ambots like the plague'.
Not once have I seen someone say 'You guys are nuts -- I'm joining; this AmQuix stuff is going to be the next big thing!'
But I am sure that Anthony or some other fake personality will surface soon to say just that.....
Poorhouse Tony, keep drinking that kool aid pal, just don't bring that sh_t around here no more....and save a seat for your sister at the poorhouse...her career in bukake films isn't going so well.....
X, maybe I should put a Verse and Chapter in front of my post so you will read it more thoroughly!! I said go to XSgear.com and look at all the OVER-THE COUNTER STUFF!! You ARE allowed to use THAT stuff to market the drink at bars, gyms, etc. If you just asked about the "stuff on XSgear" and they said its only for personal use, they were refering to the XS stuff - items with the XS logo, all of those items are only for personal use. You cannot use items with XS logos for commercial use. Read the OTC guidelines on the page. If you quit for this reason in whole or in part, you deserved to waste that money.
This is my point - you THINK you know things, but you DON'T - you and MANY others on here are simply MISINFORMED!!
If all you wanted to do was sell to bars and gyms, you could have, and you could used the OTC stuff to promote it at bars and ANY of the XS stuff to promote it in eveyday life and at sampling booths. I've gotten downline from sampling events! One led to a corporate Gift Album account! which is another whole market you could focus on like the woman I know who's made over $65,000 in 2 years off Gift album accounts.
You don't HAVE to buy tools. Some of you really missed the boat!
Imran, where was the info on the FTC's 70% rule, that was just some site on what to look for in pyramids??
Do you even know what a Ponzi scheme is? Its getting people to "invest" in a fake business and then taking the investment from some to pay off the others to look like a return, then getting them to invest more, then running off once the pot is big enough! It has nothing to do with an actual product or business. Its just convincing people you've got a good investement and taking their money!
Also, you posted> "...the right to receive in return for recruiting other participants into the program rewards which are unrelated to sale of products or services to ultimate users."
Ha! We don't get rewards for just recruiting people! We get paid on volume! All of it, whether its to self, m/c, downline, downline's m/c, etc. thats why weren't not a pyramid. If you recruit 100 people and no one buys anything - you're NOT getting Paid!!
Nice try though!
see thats what I'm talking about df, keep it coming ;) lets the people see just what a lowlife some of the people who didn't make it are, hmm, maybe they won't relate to you or take anything you say seriosuly.
Exaggerated incomes claims?? HAAAA!!! Are you serious?? When have I exagerated income? When I talked about myself, or when I said what my Diamond makes not even counting tool$ - you guys wanted proof and I sent qblog in checks for 2 months totaling over $200,000!! LOL!!! Did you hear me d*f* - in just 2 month... over $200,000 from just Qx, no tools. And he was just a Diamond, not an EDC or Double! Ha, and you morons say it doesn't work - WHY DON'T YOU BE HONEST?... It didn't work for YOU!!!
Did you cry when you didn't make varsity football? Did you cry when you got cut from freshman baseball? What about that spelling-bee in the 2nd grade? Give me a break!
Tony, that was Attorney General of Michigan. Those were not my words, his. What the heck dows he know about law any way, right?
Tony>We don't get rewards for just recruiting people! We get paid on volume!
Imran>Where does that volume come from? downline IBOs or clients? That's what he meant as well. upfront AND ongoing 'payments'.
Tony... are you crying because you are trailer trash? its not your fault.. let it go.. your intelligence or lack of....shows in your argument.. you trailer trash!!! you are nothing but a lil a..hole running his mouth because you can't argue logically...
Tony has anyone ever told you that you're a blathering idiot? You're saying it didn't work for all these people on here. It doesn't work for over 99% of all people. Obviously your in that 99 percentile.
Keep drinking that Kool-Aid kid and keep filling up on the outright deception these scam artists feed you. I never joined Qx, so I only speak from watching my firend and a couple of aquaintances ruin their lives. I actually went to an open meeting with my friend becuase when he first told me of this business it sounded interesting. After meeting the people in the open meeting I decided to do some research simply because all of the people I met said the same things and acted the same way. If a couple people say the same thing maybe it's a coincidence but when 2 dozen people say it, well that's dowright freaky!
One thing I will say is that people I know generally do like the XS energy drink. Thanks to eBay I can buy cases of these much cheaper than I could on Qx and because of that I actually can make a profit without being in the business lol. I CAN ADVERTISE this stuff. Since I'm not a part of QX I'm not breaking any rules.
So while you're out peddling XS at $35.00 a case I can sell it for $25.00 and make just as much as you lol. Isn't the internet great?? LOL!
T>Like the moron "Don Incoherent" who thinks making a comment is the same as asking a question! Seriously Don, go back and read the post, where exactly is your question - you made a freakin statement, sorry I didn't answer your COMMENT!
DI> Hey TOny, I've never called you names, I've actually told people to STOP the anme calling and have a decent argument. But, guess what, here we are you hypocritical piece of shit.
It's amazing to what lengths you'd go to avoid responding to a legitimate point. Fine, it wasn't a "Question," it was a "comment." I mistyped, so fuckin' SHOOT ME. Do you know how to debate, you fucking retard? One side makes a point, the other side rebuts it. Then vice versa. Are we debating here, or having a shouting match?
You seem to have a good time trying to rebut everyone else's points, so why ignore mine? Maybe 'cause you can't find a fuckin explanation for why a business that claims to be "free enterprise" actually CONSTRAINS entrepreneurship like a bunch of goddamn pinkos? Isn't this a vital contradiction?
So, Tony, why don't you save face, and REBUT MY POINT. Tell me what you think.
Tony,
Don't pawn off the little plane analogy so fast, there, chief.
What you say is that you can't explain everything because you (haha) aren't there yet.
Here's some McDonald's food for thought, since you like to bring McDonald's into the picture.
McDonald's can explain to every franchise prospect how much money they can expect to make with hard data, facts, market and demographic studies. They don't try to get people so excited and sign up asap, and they sure as hell don't sneak around at bookstores looking for franchisers.
In short, it can be explained with FACTS, not hype. Just like airplanes flying. In your business, over 99% of the airplanes crash and burn.
Your acceptance of the airplane analogy tells me how weak minded you really are.
Think, ninja boy, think. More to the point, think for yourself.
I've met some pretty intelligent rich people, and also wealthy people with not so much in the smarts dept. If somebody gives me advice, I think about it.
Just because somebody has money, it does not make them smart. If you are simple enough to accept catchy one liners, you really are on the boat to poverty, because if these hucksters don't get your $$, somebody else will.
But hey! Why would they lie? They only make the bulk of their income off the books and tapes. And you let them, despite what anyone says. We don't make $$ off you Tony. They do. Who has more to lose?
.....sigh......
T> How legit does my business look when I got no website.
DI> Tony, a business may be legit without a website and still make money. A business may look legit with a website. But what DOES NOT look legit is an "e-commerce" or "retailing" website that is PASSWORD PROTECTED. How can I purchase things from a website if I need a password even to browse the inventory? Last time I checked, I can see what's for sale at WalMart without any passwords. And if I want to buy, I make my own account in a second. What do you think about this, Tony?
Oh and Tony, don't forget to rebut my earlier point, too. See above.
From Amquix info: A emerald/diamond's
income:
In many email's I have read where Emerald's earn over $100,000 per year and Diamond's make over $250,000 per year from their Amway business.
I am not challenging that claim. On this page I am trying to find out how they could earn that level of income solely from an Amway business using the information in the Amway Business Review (SA-4400) that is effective as of Jan 97.
As you review these numbers, please remember that individual results will vary based on volume and organizational structure.
First some assumptions. I am going to assume that the emerald or diamond is a Q12 direct, which means they maintained at least 7,500 PV volume in all 12 months of the fiscal year. I am also going to assume the three or six directs they sponsored are also Q12 directs. This type of business is probably the exception and not the typical emeraldship and diamondship that you will find.
I am also going to assume that all of these directs have maintained an average of 20,000 business volume (BV) in each of these months. 20,000 BV would translate into an annual volume in excess of $250,000 (real dollars), which should be a VERY profitable direct if it is structured properly.
The 25% performance bonus check on 20,000 BV would be $5,000. Let's assume half of that goes to downline performance bonuses so that would be $2,500 times 12 for a total of $30,000.
The leadership bonus is 4% of the BV for each leg. This would be $800 per month or $9,600 per year per leg.
The average profit sharing bonus, an annual payment, for fiscal year 1995 was $2,088. Let's round to $2,100 and double it, since this would not be an "average" business. For a diamond, let's double it again.
The average Pearl bonus for fiscal year 1995 was $1,407 per month, which would be about $17,000 for an emerald. Let's round this up to $20,000 and let's double it for a diamond.
The average Emerald bonus, an annual payment, paid in fiscal year 1995 was $10,139. Let's round this up to $11,000 for an emerald and double it for a diamond.
The average Diamond bonus, an annual payment, paid in fiscal year 1995 was $40,794. Let's round this up to $41,000.
Now let's add up the numbers.
Bonus Emerald Diamond
25% Performance $30,000 $30,000
Profit Sharing $4,200 $8,400
Leadership $28,800 $57,600
Pearl $20,000 $40,000
Emerald $11,000 $22,000
Diamond $41,000
Totals $94,000 $199,000
Pretty impressive incomes aren't they? The emerald income does come close to six figures, but they do fall short of the claims I have read in numerous email on the internet, and as you can tell, I have been VERY generous in my assumptions! I have no doubt that some directs do maintain an average of 20,000 BV for 12 months out of the year. But to have an emerald or diamond at these levels plus all three or six legs at that volume would be an exception, not the average business.
I did not forget the ruby bonus. This assumption implies that no one had ruby volume. If the emerald or diamond also has ruby side volume, then you should add about $22,000 to the incomes above.
Now let's look at an "average" business. I am going to use the arithmetic averages posted in the SA-4400 to come up with an emerald's and diamond's income:
Bonus Emerald Diamond
25% Performance $16,224 $16,224
Profit Sharing $2,088 $4,176
Leadership $12,012 $24,024
Pearl $16,884 $33,768
Emerald $10,139 $20,278
Diamond $40,794
Totals $57,347 $139,264
The average ruby bonus from the SA-4400 is $677 per month, which would be $8,124 annualized.
I want to repeat that individual results will vary based on volume and organizational structure. I am sure that many emeralds and diamonds make more than the numbers I just came up with.
So where is the difference coming from? On the next few pages, I'm going to review income opportunities that Direct Distributors and above have from the "system" which, according to them is the only way you will succeed in the Amway business.
So how do diamonds own million dollar homes, aircraft, and fleets of cars?
From the sale of tapes, books and seminars!
Look at this:
FED. Tickets cost $100. Say there are 10,000 people attending. That’s one million dollars in ticket sales. The State or City will normally allow free use of an arena or restaurants if your convention will bring in that many people to fill the hotels and stadiums. The cost for the setup/cleaning crew for the weekend is about $50,000. Where does the $950,000 profit go? It goes to the big diamond pins who run the functions. Not to mention the directs work as free ushers and there are many many functions each year.
Tony,
If you don't mind, I have a couple of questions about YOUR business;
1) How many M/C do you have? What has been your average M/C PV for the last six months?
2) How wide and deep is your group? How many people on SOT?
Just trying to see if any of your comments are based on your own experiences
Thanks
Poorhouse Tony:
I lettered in two varsity sports. So, again, it is you making the assumption and being wrong, not me.
You are getting slaughtered here pal. Embot is gone, Mikebot is gone, even your pal Eagle is gone....or were all of those 'people' part of your multipersonalty disorder ???
You don't have a leg to stand on. Kind of like when I give your sister the wheelbarrel treatment!!!!
I don't think all the name calling is needed here. I know that many of us have been in the business before and we have a different point of view. I think when I was in the business, I may have had the same viewpoint as Tony. That being said, I had the experience of being a 4000 pin and getting first hand knowledge that you don't make money even at that level and when I crunched the numbers I didnt see how you could make money at the direct level either. Add in the fact that directs work as free ushers at functions, have to counsel and show the plan for downline, the income in return for your time and efforts aren't worth it.
Tony > how am I gonna succeed longterm if I'm not being trained? If I'm not getting info from my mentors!
Me > really nothing more needs to be said, he truly is plugged in, game over. Regardless of what points we bring up there is no hope for the lad, he continues to believe that ongoing training is required (read more tools) and yet has not had any fruit from that training. I think it's safe to say that the training is a failure, yes I'd like to think that it's the training and not the individual. Now if I put down X number of dollars for a Dale Carnegie or some other similar seminar and I see no fruit (read success) from it, the likelihood of me attending yet again month after month, year after year, heck multiple times each month is slim to none. Yet an IBO with no success, is told to do just that??? And you wonder why we label the system a cult?
Really, I'm not expecting a reply or comment from any IBO on this, heck I was there spending my money each and every painstaking month, but if you've had the success rate that Tony has would you endeavour to continue spending your money on the system? Just walk away, this program is NOT for YOU !!
Sorry to go on ...one simple question..
Tony> Why aren't big pins here? I've said it before, they already have been
Me> what was his moniker...I'd like to review his posts if possible...
Thanks,
question for Joecool:
What, in your estimation, would be an average income for a Q12 Platinum (in WWG)?
Also, what would that platinum pay for function admissions for one year?
See Don YOU see them as constraints, I see them as guidelines to protect IBOs. Qx doesn't want to hamper there IBOs, they quit. Qx doesn't make us do 50 m/c PV - that was imposed by the FTC.
If I could go to my uncle who is a regional manager for Walmart (hypothetical) and get him to carry XS at all Walmarts, and the DoubleX vitamins, and protein bars, etc. - there would be NO business!! IBO's wouldn't exist! It'd be Walmart buying from Qx, having things shipped From Qx, but ME getting the PV check for it. It would be almost impossible for other IBOs to have businesses selling to m/c's or retail establishments when those people could just buy it from Walmart. But since you CAN'T sell XS in the can, or the protein bars at a Walmart, people can develop a business around our exclusive products, and the Partner Stores are just an added bonus! Does that answer you comment? And i didn't mean to get you all hot and bothered, its just that you were saying that you "asked me a question 3 times" and that I kept dodging it. And the truth is you never asked me a question, at all you just spouted out a comment which honestly I have already addressed SEVERAL TIMES now! This is nothing new, I've explained the protection aspect before.
You see them as constraints - I see them as safeguards. If a bar can sell XS in the can, then they can sell them by the case (which is $20.40 not $35, I forget which moron keeps saying $35?) and then if a bar can sell by the case, why not a corner store, or Walmart. See my point. I doubt it, cause you are just negative.
Don your question about the passwords is completely baffling. Lets assume for a second your talking about Quixtar.com are you? 1st of all you CAN browse without a password so STOP LYING!!! But you're suggestng is that it should be just like walmart.com - people should be able to go to quixtar and just look at something, put it in their cart and buy it - no ID# or password needed. Then how is Quixtar gonna know who gets the credit? HELLO?? How pissed off would I be as an IBO if Quixtar started selling directly to the public. So we go out and promote the business and then consumers by from Quixtar and IBOs get no reward, how long would IBOs be doing it if Qx was essentially stealing our m/c's??
Do you understand how the business works Don?? Qx pays US instead of advertisers to promote the products. We do the work, we create the volume, and then WE get compensated for it!! So if you didn't have to be refered by an IBO and could just go to the site and by stuff, with no password, then HOW does any IBO get credit for it?? Make sense?
Average Income for Platinum in WWDB?
My guess is (assuming 7500 PV each month) is that after paying downline bonuses, they keep about $2000 a month or $24,000 a year.
As for functions, I live in Hawaii so let me break it down based on my experience:
Monthly opens $6 X 12 = $72
(Most of these figures double up for a couple)
Monthly local functions $24 (8 per year)
Dream nite $60
FED - San Diego $75
Airfare/hotel/Car for FED $700
Family reunion -Portland $240 (hotel included)
Air/car $800 (summer travel is expensive)
Leadership - Seattle $150
Air/car/hotel $700
Tapes (minimum 5 per week plus 3 standing orders (upline said you pay for S/O if downline quit. $2496 per year or $48 a week.
Books - 2 per month $240/year
Gas $20/week = $1040/year
Platinum also has go diamond weekend
$1000
Buying extra PV to remain platinum
(who really uses 300 PV worth of stuff each month?) $250/month or $3000/year.
Total = $10,775
Income from platinum $24,000
Net $13,225
So you do all that work, serve the diamonds, serve your downline, work for free at functions, use up your vacation time to attend functions. This doesn't include sitters fees, etc if you have kids.
T> See Don YOU see them as constraints, I see them as guidelines to protect IBOs. Qx doesn't want to hamper there IBOs, they quit.
DI> I understand that we see these things differently Tony. However, the problem appears when Quixtar is touted as an opportunity for entrepreneurs (you called it somethign similar yourself, TOny); in reality,m these socialist, equalizing constraints SUPPRESS entrepreneurs who are looking for better ways to retail.
You can either have these constraints, or give true entrepreneurs opportunities. But you can't have it both ways. What do you think of that?
T> Walmart examples
DI> What about simple grocery stores? Certainly they only have a local impact. But you can't even do that, can you? You're required to deal with EVERY customer face to face, and resellers such as bars are hampered twice by selling a product that has little brand recognition without any displays. Do you not see how incredibly difficult this makes life for an entrepreneur who wants to do retail, not MLM?
T> Don your question about the passwords is completely baffling. Lets assume for a second your talking about Quixtar.com are you? 1st of all you CAN browse without a password so STOP LYING!!!
DI> Tony, if you're ASSUMING, don't accuse me of lying, because you assumed WRONG. I was talking about IBO's personal websites--those are the front for the business aren't they? How is the web customer supposed to see what you're selling?
And don't tell me that they can see it when you personally give them the password. The whole POINT of a web business is to get people from all over the world to buy on your web site, not only those who you've talked to. Yet another way the retail aspect of the business is hampered beyond belief.
I understand how the business works. YOU misunderstood me. If an customer buys from YOUR PERSONAL STORE, not the Qx site, obviously you will get the credit. But the random web customer can't even get in! What the hell is going on--is this an e-commerce business or not?
One more thing I forgot:
T>You see them as constraints - I see them as safeguards. If a bar can sell XS in the can, then they can sell them by the case...and then if a bar can sell by the case, why not a corner store, or Walmart. See my point. I doubt it, cause you are just negative.
DI> Tony, I am not negative; I have something called BUSINESS COMMON SENSE, which you don't seem to have. The above is an example why.
You're the IBO, right? You sell a case of XS to a bar. You paid X amount for the case, and sold it to the bar for X+P dollars, where P is your profit. Therefore, the cost of the case for the bar was higher than your own.
Following me here? OK, then. Now, in order for the bar to make a profit (remember, we all want to profit, we're not doing this for fun!) they will add Q amount to the cost of the case. Q is their profit, and the new cost of the case is X+P+Q.
Here's my point. THe case of XS at the bar or grocery store is P+Q dollars HIGHER than the cost for the IBO. It is also Q dollars HIGHER than it is for any of the IBO's customers. THEREFORE, the safeguard becomes irrelevant: it is still cheaper to buy from the IBO than it is from a bar!
Now, if a competing IBO wants a share of the pie, he can always charge not P amount of dollars over the X price, but N amount of dollars, where N
You see, Tony, this is called FREE ENTERPRISE. It is the essence of capitalism. THose "safeguards" that you love so much reek of communism and impede real business. That's why they are BAD.
Don: excellent point.
Not to mention that the bigger you are, the higher your fixed cost is going to be, and therefore you need to push the price much higher before you can actually get a profit.
Using Don's example, whereas for Joe IBO a GROSS profit (N) of $1 per can is enough (because he barely have any fixed cost: storefront, employment taxes, etc.), for a Bar a GROSS profit of $1 per can is worth MUCH LESS, because the bar needs to pay for utilities, lease, employee, etc.
THAT is the REAL SAFEGUARDS for small IBO. No need for crappy 'cannot advertise' stuff.
Now THIS is funny.......
Poorhouse Tony>Do you understand how the business works Don??
DF> Uh, yeah, I think Don knows more about business in his little toe than you do. His X+P+Q model explains why your 'business' in an anti-free enterprise sham.
Poorhouse Tony>Qx pays US instead of advertisers to promote the products. We do the work, we create the volume, and then WE get compensated for it!! So if you didn't have to be refered by an IBO and could just go to the site and by stuff, with no password, then HOW does any IBO get credit for it?? Make sense?
DF> Yep, Don covered that in the 'Q' portion of his model. This is why Amquix is uncompetitive in the marketplace--which is why they have to create their own private pools of customers to circulate money around/upward in the pyramid....
...which is why the 70% rule discussed earlier is abused so frequently.
What's ironic, Poorhouse Tony, is that you think you are defending the American Dream & Free Enterprise with your "independent business".
In actuality, you are doing the exact opposite with the communist/fixed-price system you perpetuate.
Ironic? Kinda. Moronic? Definately.
Embot, there you are pal, back from a weekend of soliciting. Hope you didn't reel any poor suckers in.
Hey, joecool put out his numbers, per your request -- showing a $13k/year profit. Not too great, as you could get a second job at the mall working a kiosk at a higher income level...and you get a neato mall discount at Arby's (mmmm.....Arrrr-by's)
Now, how about you answer the questions asked of you. You never said how you made those big real estate returns and how they were linked to the big Q.
Were you full of crap or do you have an explanation/business case. I can't wait to hear it.......
joecool,
didn't you forget about the Q12 platinum bonus of $10 grand added to your profit?
also, isn't there a moving up bonus of $5,000?
even the SA4400 gives us a realistic gross income of $36k per year, not including bonuses...
Joe, thank you for your response. However I feel I need to set you straight on a few things.
I realize you don't have much to go on, except your own experience several years ago.
Remember I asked what the function admission cost is for Platinums. In Worldwide it is FREE. Also for other ibos there is a now a monthly subscription fee which covers your cds, functions, etc. Obviously you don't know this. And extra cds are a lot less money now.
I asked for income estimations for a Q12. You gave me the minimim for a regular platinum.
I can begin to take your expenses and tell you exactly what you did wrong. Sorry you had the upline you did. Who were they (diamond leg?). But a few things you mentioned are just plain wrong.....
5 tapes a week plus 3 s/o??? So you were in constantly subsidizing downline? Without knowing you or your business I'd say offhand you got people on tools way too fast. Would you like to offset that expense anyway with the tape/cd profit the Platinum makes??
2 books a month?? WWG teaches book of the month (1).
Go diamond weekend. I'd say that function is VERY optional in my personal estimation. Wouldn't encourage it unless it was financially feasible.
Buying extra PV to remain Platinum? HUH? You had better explain THAT one. Where did you come up with that? Work on getting your Platinum business solid rather than doing this.
You are figuring expenses on the extreme high-end based on your residence in Hawaii. Normally, most would not have airfare/hotel for all of the majors if they are living in the WWG major metro areas such as Seattle, Portland, Mpls, LV, Phoenix, etc.
Based on what I told you, go back and figure it again for a Q12, living in Seattle or Portland or Minneapolis.
Embot:
You are asking a bunch of questions. Why don't you try answering this one, from like, a week ago........
"You never said how you made those big real estate returns and how they were linked to the big Q."
Ante up Embot....did you think I forgot????
df, didn't you read my response over there?!?
I told you it wasn't part of the ORIGINAL challenge, that my investments did better than yours.
And I told you no-one else cares! So quit wasting space about it, k? If you want to know more you can contact me.
p.s. to Joe: I personally would not have advised all that travel even at the 4000 level from Hawaii. Not unless you were moving very very fast. Would your downline have quit then if you missed a major?
Embot:
Yes, it was part of the original challenge.
The fact that you are hiding the facts leads us to believe that you are lying.
The fact that you won't put a general description of your real estate investment out here is a sign that you are lying.
Your lies and half-truths are starting to catch up with you. Go ahead, put an end to it, by putting the FACTS on the table!
Tony> then they can sell them by the case (which is $20.40 not $35, I forget which moron keeps saying $35?)
BD> That would be me. Don't consider myself a moron however. I'm not the one who's been in a business for 2 years in which I haven't earned a dime but continue to say I'll be a millionaire lol. Who's really the moron?
Anyway My friend sells these for $35.00 a case simply stating if he comes down on price he'd be cheapening his business and thinking think a consumer instead of a business owner. And, to be perfectly honest, that makes sense. However when I'm speaking of selling cases of XS for $35.00 I was talking about him selling to regular everyday people. If he sold it in bulk at say 40 cases to a bar I'm sure he wouldn't sell them at 35.00 a case.
Before you go making snap judgements why don't you get the whole story first. besides check this out.
40 cases of XS @ 20.40 = $816.00
480 X .05 deposit = $24.00
8% NYS tax on $816.00 = 65.28
7.28 PV X 40 = 291.2PV
20.40BV X 40 = 816BV
3% X 816 = 24.48
So if you sold these at you're cost after tax and deposit you'd be LOSING $64.80.
Now I may not be a business major, but even I know that's bad business. So you calling me a moron? LOL ever hear the saying "people who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones" It applies to you my Quixtar PAL.
Nice try. The bars I sell to have their own account, so while some might get it at cost, They pay tax and shipping (free for that much), not me, so I just Make money, and the ones I mark the can price up on, I make more $ - I don't pay THEIR tax! Nice try moron. But I need to start charging more if your "friend" is really selling them for $35!
LOL. Holy shucks dude do you hear yourself? You stated above you sold them for $20.40 so right away you've contradicted yourself which you're great at.
Tony Bot> "so I just Make money, and the ones I mark the can price up on, I make more $ - I don't pay THEIR tax!"
BD> Two parts to this I'll address. First the I just make money. You've stated numerous times you don't make any money and some months you lose. With your business smarts it's easy to see how you lose money lol. Then this "The ones I mark the can price up on I make more"
Hard to understand what the hell that means, but again you stated you sold them for $20.40 and didn't mark them up. Once again contradiction. Twice in one statement not bad Tony Bot.
On a side note my friend stopped by my job yesterday and noticed this page up on the screen. His exact words were "You love the Quixtar Blog don't you?" I said I enjoy the comments I like seeing what people have to say. I told him there are also people on here that are in Qx. I used you as an example. After reading your posts he said "He'll never go anywhere in this business. Any fool that is online is not out building a business and not all IBO's are as ignorant as this clown" LMAO. That's a guy from your own business. I guess that says it all.
I am yet to see a bar carry xs. I guess I frequent high-end places, so they wouldn't cater to ambot scum.
Also, I am yet to hear anyone say, give me a XS and Vodka. Its Red Bull...always Red Bull.
And now, you can get cases of Red Bull at Costco for less than $20.
So,according to my calculations, XS is about to go the way of the overhyped/overpriced detergents and vitamins.....
Big Dog, you and your friend are both asses! I never contradicted myself.
You said, if I was selling XS at $20.40 a case I was losing money per case with tax, shipping, etc. I simply said even to the bars I allow to buy it at the base price, they pay their own shipping and tax. (so I make $ on the volume)
And I never said I ONLY sell it at $20.40. Some bars are paying more. So at THOSE bars I make more (per can).
Yes, with tools, website, 'Kate, etc. I don't usually make much each month. Thats not a contradiction. If I sell a case for $23 (plus shipping and tax) then I made a few bucks on that case. Thats what I mean by "I make more on those".
I'd like to know what post you let your IBO friend read. I'm sure you took him thru the entire history of where I started out pretty positive, and civil toward all, until some of you critbots started in with the insults and such. Yea, it sounds like he's real open minded too, and has great people skills. I would never say "ah, he's not gonna make it" to someone I never even frickin met, and just read a few posts of.
And guess what d!ckheads? I'm at work right now!! What a moronic statement that "I'm not gonna go far, when I'm posting here instead of out showing the plan!!" I'm at WORK!! I can't just skip out at 2pm and start building my business. From 5/6pm on - I AM building my business. Thanks for More assumptions.
And df, I doubt any high-class place would let drive past it, let alone come inside. Just because YOU haven't seen a bar with XS doesn't mean there aren't any. And trust me, you're gonna see a lot more. XS blows RedBull out of the water. Redbull has more name recognition and has been around alot longer - it will only be a matter of time before its the #1 at bars. Oh, and I have heard someone ask for a (cherry) XS and vodka, and it wasn't an IBO!
The people who will recruit you will ignore any law to get you to sign up, even Quixtar's own rules. When I met with Qx recruiters (described in an earlier entry, what interested me most about Qx was being able to resell XS. I know the owners of several food stores and my family owns several (non-food) businesses as well so I thought that I could resell the drink there.
I mentioned this to the IBOs as the main reason that I'd get into Qx. They replied along the lines of "Sure, that's great, of course you could do that!" Only after reading the QBlog forums did I realize that an IBO MAY NOT sell XS to another store for reale, and that if XS is served in bars, it has to be served in plastic cups and referred to as "Blast"!
I am baffled here for two reasons. First, because of how Quixtar constantly puts sticks in the wheels of IBOs by creating asinine rules such as the above. (What could possibly be the reason for such a rule.) Second, it is amazing how Qx recruiters would blatantly mislead their prospects just to get them to sign up.
Posted by: Don Incognito | July 25, 2005 2:10 PM