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July 20, 2005
How was it for you?
By Not QBlog in Miscellaneous
Do you remember the first time you were prospected by someone in the Amway or Quixtar business?
The first time, you ask? Well, yeah, haven't you been prospected several times over the years, like I have?
The first pitch came from a college classmate. Phil always wore a suit to class -- it was a night class, so this wasn't so unusual. Though when I think back, it showed the extent to which he embraced the business at the time. Anyhow, we were all aspiring writers, and his writing was ambitious, if uneven, fast-paced, trying-to-be detective fiction, which to me, also is on "type." We read our stuff aloud to the class, and somehow during a break he zeroed in on me.
I don't even remember how he wrangled an invitation to the married housing unit my spouse and I occupied at the time. I do remember he was surprised that we didn't seem to live hand-to-mouth like many married students did. Undeterred, he went ahead with his pitch over coffee in our tiny little kitchen, asking about our dreams and drawing circles on a pad of paper. We were unmoved. The idea of trying to convince a bunch of other people to do such a thing with us made it a no-brainer. "No way," we said. The end.
The next pitch: same time period, same place. This time it was our next door neighbors. Jenni was pregnant. Steve was ambitious. They approached us from the product angle, and they actually got somewhere with us at first, albeit only as retail customers. We bought into the SA8 system hook, line, and sinker: Detergent, fabric softener, Smashing White for the hard water. Oh man, we loved that stuff (being newly marrieds, we did the laundromat thing together religiously). But I marvel still at how much money we irresponsibly spent on that initial order -- the power of concentration notwithstanding.
The final time was more recent -- right before the start of Quixtar, as near as I can tell. Someone the spouse works with offered up a mini CD describing an Internet business in a very oblique but intriguing way. The pitch was from the perspective of an online business that just seemed to perpetuate itself. It was the closest we ever came to signing on. But then came the nagging doubt again: yes, this idea may be easier to spread via the Internet, but you still have to convince people to go with you. Maybe it's not as hard as cold-knocking on people's doors, but it is, at its base, the same principle. Again -- no way.
The funny thing about all three of these encounters was that each time, the idea seemed really exciting to us (even with the product pitch -- the idea of buying these special, super-concentrated products that you couldn't just get anywhere was somehow very appealing). But then -- fortunately, I guess -- reality set in, and we could not bring ourselves to sign on. I don't know about the spouse, but that always left me feeling slightly inferior -- like I wasn't quite good enough to meet the challenge. Yet I was always thankful that I knew myself well enough to realize this was not a business I could do.
Comments
Have you ever been raped? Can you imagine how it could happen?
Try.
PW
I bet MC would say that the victim wasn't being honest and accepted the responsibilty that it was their fault.
Thats that attitude that I find insulting.
MC suggestion to "get all of the facts" is bitterly ironic when one considers the incontrovertible fact that what little real data exists paints a rather bleak picture of the Quixtar business when prosecuted without an emphasis on actually selling products to retail customers.
And MC's condescending dismissal of the negative impact on people borders on the absurd. I was lied to, face-toface by people who claimed to "love" me, about almost every aspect of "the business": tool and function money, Amway rules, and countless others. I watched a Direct tell a guy (that trusted the Direct completely) with six kids, someone that had ever barely cracked 1500, to leave a good-paying job that he had for two months to go to a rally. Years later that SOB admitted to me in a conversation that he was sitting on 50 rally tickets and was simply "desperate to move them".
That's just the tip of the iceberg; I was barely involved with "networking" and yet I saw and heard countless instances of outright deceipt, fraud, and manipulation. There are people that frequent this blog that can relate anecdotes that will turn stomachs.
Yes indeed, dear reader, get the facts - if you can.
The first time I was approached was back in my college. I was making a Taco Bell run (loved those bacon cheeseburger burritos) and the guy behind me in line started complimenting me on my "cool leather jacket". That was back in my cute years so I worked in that it was actually my fiancee's. Didn't deter the guy, he talked about this great new business opportunity, passed along his business card and said to call him and he'd take us out to lunch to talk about it more.
He was so oddly slick that I never called. Something just felt wrong about it.
The second time we were hit was just after my husband's grandfather's funeral. I kid you not. My husband's cousin (it was her grandfather, too) was in the business for a long time. She had recently divorced and then married a guy she met at a function. He was very "fired up" and led us through some dream-building at the family gathering after the funeral. The cousin did look irritated at her husband, but she didn't stop it.
A few days later, we got a call inviting us to dinner. My husband was very close to his cousins and happy to be getting together, since he hadn't seen her much since she had moved. Our first hint that something was up was that they were willing to drive 7 hours to go out to dinner. The cousin's husband mentioned a new e-business that he was starting to build and could use some help with.
This didn't really seem odd to us, since my husband built people computers in his spare time and I did some freelance programming and webdesign. We thought they might need some expertise and talked about making them a website as a wedding present.
We were really shocked when dinner was a sales pitch and the bonding time my husband had been looking forward to with his cousin consisted of her gazing soulfully at her husband, nodding at his every word and refusing to make any comment herself.
What bothered me the most was how upset my husband was at being "duped" and later, at the process starting at his grandfather's funeral.
We got out of the situation semi-diplomatically by claiming not to have any time to spend on the venture (we had a newborn, my husband worked during the day and I was fininshing my master's at night). This seemed outrageous to the cousin's husband. Why would we want to spend our precious few extra hours with our newborn when we could invest them in the business and have plenty of time to spend with him by the time he was 5-8?
Turns out we weren't the only ones he prospected at the funeral. For months afterwards my in-laws (who were still dealing with their grief and with the fastly declining health of the grandmother), would get calls from people how had lost the cousin's phone number but wanted to sign up or who wanted them to get the cousins to stop bugging them, or who wanted to know if this Quixtar-thing was legitimate...
They had even prospected the preacher who had conducted the funeral.
Last I heard the cousins were doing well in the BWW organization. They are repeat Q-12 platinums (but both still work outside the home fulltime despite now having a baby of their own). We get a laundry list of where they've been, how much of it was paid for my Quixtar and how we can sign up and be sucessful, too instead of a Christmas card.
The sad thing is, what a bad taste the funeral experience left in the family's mouth. There have been other episodes, too (not involving us) that make it apparent that the family is only valuable as potential recruits or overnight babysitters.
The image the experience left on me is that is is possible to be moderately sucessful in the business, if you are willing to become a slimebucket constantly looking for prey.
We were approached several times by the same coworker, over a period of about two years. Eventually, we did agree to see the plan. Interestingly enough, our sponsors were described as 'successful' in the business. In fact, the wife of the couple had 'retired' from her job in the corporate world where she admittedly was fairly high up the food chain - I'd say in the $150,000 - $175,000 salary range before bonuses. Not bad. Hubby worked in the same area we did, and we knew his salary was around the $80,000 range. So we were certain that it COULD work - after all, it was right there in front of us. They were platinum with Ruby volume (had no idea what that meant, just knew that she didn't 'work')
So we signed up. Were pretty darn close to 'CORE' for about a year & a half. Did the functions, had house meetings with our Diamond in our house, bought the expensive stuff for demos, did 300 PV personally, was on KATE, SOT, extra tapes, etc, etc, etc, and signed up very few IBOs. Had clients, had a few Prosumers, but no one really wanted to 'build the business' i.e. tools, functions, etc. We had a few pretty good bonus checks, and crossed stage as 'up and coming' but we essentially 'bought' the pin by our purchases (Jewelry Kit for demo - $2000.00; Artistry Kit Complete - $1300.00; eSpring - $600.00; Advanced Air Treatment - $700.00 -- you get the picture)
But I regress....I thought the initial unease I felt was because I was venturing into something new, and of course our sponsors and mentors perpetuated that thought. Check upline, check upline, check upline - before you do anything - after all they've already done it so why reinvent the wheel??? That's what we were continually taught.
Then we went to our first 'out of town' function in Minneapolis. This is a true story. The woman was there, all smiles and happy to be there to support their group, but the hubby was absent...what?? This a FUNCTION, and we were told we HAD to be there or our business would be set back 6 months! What's the deal? We asked. Turned out that his mother had died, and he went to the funeral. Well OF COURSE you would say, right? NO. His wife explained that (paraphrasing) "he was so torn as to what to do - he knows how important this function is - you need to attend them ALL NO MATTER WHAT - but gosh, this is his mom....so he did what he was taught...he checked upline to his mentor and Diamond, Howie Danzik, who told him to use his best judgement and do what he had to do!" Can you imagine? You have to ASK to go to your own MOTHER' S FUNERAL????
Why we stayed after that is beyond me, but we did. The cultish aspects were at work...and I was stupid. He eventually quit his job as well, so this was ALL they did. Put off doing ANYTHING to their house, didn't let their kids do any kind of activity lest it interfere with the business, and socialized ONLY with Quixtar people.
We did leave, although we continue to purchase products. Wrote our sponsors, Diamonds, and Quixtar a letter and never heard a peep out of any of them. Our sponsors? They made it to Emerald (3 Platinum legs), cut a tape, were speakers at functions, etc. But somewhere along the way they lost their Emeraldship and the last I saw, they were listed as Q12s (last Achieve). I honestly don't know what's up with them now. I sincerely wish them luck, they were nice people in the beginning.
So yeah, I remember all too vividly. I could go on, but it's just one more story out of so many hundreds of thousands of similar ones...
My "first time" was yesterday. My daughter's teacher, who knows I'm having difficulty finding a job, approached me with this opportunity. Seeing as how I'm a bit pessimistic of this stuff, I had lots of questions. We talked for two hours, and he gave me material to look over. Well, I spent at least 9-10 hours on the internet yesterday looking up info. This is just Amway reinvented - I have relatives who lost money in that company. While I really like my daughter's teacher, I don't trust that the higher-ups who duped people in Amway won't/aren't doing the exact same thing with Quixtar. In reality, in 5 years I'm going to WANT a regular full-time job anyway - my kids will be teenagers wanting to get away from me, so the "more time with family" argument doesn't fly with me at all. Not to mention the unethical, non-Christian (I only mention that because it is pushed) aspects that I'm finding - bordering on or outright illegality of selling to oneself and duping people below you with "tools." Very scary.
MC: we'd like to get all the facts.
Please tell us what you and your platinum make AFTER ALL EXPENSES. What is the bottom line on your schedule C?
I was never prospected for amway or quixtar. Well, there was the one time back in 2001 at an FED wearing a suit and tie and had a platinum lapel/nametag on my suit- I was prospected by a newbie in the restroom. I looked at him like- don't you see my nametag dude? I was a platinum for crying out loud. I listened to his canned response for about 20 minutes just smiling away. he sounded like your classic ambot. Once he caught on to what I was he felt guilty and embarassed. I sat and had coffee with the guy and even though he wasn't in my LOS I gave him some helpful pointers with his presentation and gave him some prospecting tips.
When I joined quixtar- I went looking for quixtar, for their mentorship and trainng. I wasn't looking for another business, just training from the best. I saw the success magazine cover in late 1999(still have that issue)with Rich Devos on the cover talking about quixtar. I called quixtar directly and asked who I can get some info from locally. I was impressed with the business and mentorship and signed up.
I agree with MC just do your due diligence and be careful who your getting information from.
Well, I've been 'prospected' too many times to count, but always smelled a rat and politely declined to give any information or take a business card.
DH was prospected by a man who had been his teacher in HS. He got in, guess that was back in 1988 or so. I went to several of the meetings and functions, and thought the whole thing was dumb and bordering on cultic. I think he only re-enlisted once that time.
Then a friend called me and asked us to dinner with a 'new friend' they wanted us to meet. Curiosity approach, which I had never heard of at the time (1992?). I was peeved, to say the least, when the guy spent 45 minutes asking what kind of house you'd like to have, then drew the now-infamous circles.
Then in 96 (?) DH was approached by a guy at work, signed up, and got really involved in BWW, where he languishes today.
And I still get approached occassionally at the mall or whatever. I usually tell the stalker (that's what they are) that it's obvious thet he/she is recruiting for AmQuix, and take Nancy Reagan's advice, and 'just say no'.
They are often floored that I see what they're up to, but I did have one guy actually try "well, what do you know about Amway" on me...yeesh.
I have been prospected numerous times, by other MLM's as well. I am former BWW; I agree that there is a lot of deception, lies, scandles, anything to part the front line from their hard earned money. The cult-like tactics are very clear to anyone who has studied them (which I have) and the 'Christian' teachings are the sweet words that the people want to hear; nothing more than apostic Word-Faith garbage.
Now, I make myself sharp and get out a lot so people do prospect me...then I give them the facts thier upline never did. I recently wrote out a 15 page document covering the facts of another MLM and prepared a 'meeting' for the guy...It will be grand!
Have fun with prospecting folks...you never know when myself or someone like me is around the corner...I might be that 'Green Light' or 'Hot Prospect' that is at your plan, asking all the right questions, I am HIGHLY educated and I know what you guys say at your meetings about "Doctors who asked all the right questions", while the droole drips on your Quixtar tie. I was involved for a LONG TIME. I know what all the right questions are. I take the time to build up your trust. Get you to know me a little. Maybe I shoot you an expensive dream and tell you how bad I want it. Maybe I tell you how much I don't like my job....Happy Prospecting!
I saw it work too. My sponsor went from Ruby to Diamond and I went 4,000 in the time I was involved.
I also saw hundreds of people pulling $200-1000/month out of their family budget and essentially donating it to my sponsors lifestyle, so that they would be called a winner.
In Quixtar, people are taught that there are 8 or 9 things they must do to become a success in Network Marketing. It's a lie. There are two...
Sell Products and Sponsor People...Probably the most ignored steps in the business.
Mikebot gets prospected in restrooms?
Hmmmm....why doesn't that surprise me. Dude seemed a little fey in the first place.
I've been approached by a LOT of newbies at the mall. I used to work at a mall in highschool (working 2 jobs, saving for that college investment that, by the way, has paid off BIG TIME).
These guys were always the same. I used to work in a high-end department store. These guys would come in with shirt/tie (no jacket -- not too classy in my book) and their big slimy-toothed grins.
They usually hunted in packs of 2-3. It was one 'pro' and two of his downline minions.
They'd always make a purchase -- usually the lowest price shirt or tie from the clearance rack. The sale in my book was supposed to open lines of communication because they thought I was obligated to hear them (after all, I just earned a whole $0.70 in commission).
They used the same lines like "Hey, you don't need college, you're sharp enough to sell me my outfit!" or "If you're really interested in business, then you should see what WE are doing".
I fell for it once, one of the first times. I was amazed to see that this proclaimed 'rich' guy couldn't spring for a nice meal for my 'interview'.
I took my free Gland Slam from Denny's (dude was a big spender, right?) and vowed to never fall into that pile of doo-doo again.
This is @18 years ago....so it was A, not Q.
But I got approached by these doofuses at work a few years back asking the same sort of questions and still dissing school ( I was getting my MBA, most of which was paid for by my employer).
I told these guys to stay away and to enroll in school to get some REAL business training. But it was surprising to see that the same old lines (from the 'Model T') were being used in the new model (the 'Mustang'). It was pathetic.
What's happened since?
I got my MBA and a promotion. The doofuses are still toiling, unpromoted and scrambling to keep their platnum status. They have alienated at work into pro-Q or anti-Q circles. They have done the same with their families.
Let this be a lesson boys and girls....work hard, work smart, but the road to the top is long and challenging one. Once you are there, you'll be glad you made the effort.
Oh and by the way, there is no such thing as a free Grand Slam and there is no such thing as quick star -- unless you count the falling stars.
Contacting is such an important of the business. Without contcats you don't have the raw material that is required to build the business with.
The reason why the majority of people who stay in the business for lomger then 60-90 days quit is because they fail to master this deceptive art.
At first it's very uncomfortable. After awhile you become numb and convince yourself that you aren't really lying to people you are fight for your families future.
The people that become really good at contacting manage to read people very quickly and almost have an uncanny ability to determine whether or not the person could be manipulated.
The people that typically get in the business are ones that are naturally stupid with good hearts, can't think for themselves and are looking for someone to follow or thier desperate.
The ambots usually end being the first two. The desperate wake up after time and end up quitting. It's the first two that end up fueling the king pins tool incomes.
I heard a several diamonds and emeralds:
1)Greg and Cathy Janke
2) Randy and Corri Glassock
3)Nick and Barb Olnick
4) Don and Lorri Loyyd
5)Garry and Lisa Sadden
There are many different ways to define ethics.
The means justifies the ends. This was another popular quote from them.
I have been prospected for Quixtar only once so far, in February of 2005. Prior to my encounter with the IBO, I had never heard of Amway, Quixtar, or their recruitment techniques.
I was reading a book in a Barnes & Noble near Albany, NY when a guy who seemed only a couple of years older than I (I am 22) seemed to have mistaken me for someone he knew from RPI. I politely told him that I attended Williams, and went back to reading my book.
The guy, however, did not leave but started asking me about my major, my plans after college, and so on. Since such questions are quite common, I thought he was just being friendly, and talked to him for a while.
Eventually he started talking about -- yes, here it goes -- his online business that distributes energy drinks. Being originally from Miami, I knew that that was a fairly lucrative market and expressed some interest. At no point did the guy mention Quixtar, network marketing, or draw circles. As a result, I thought that he himself was a wholesaler for a new energy drink company. He told me that he was looking for new people, gave me his card, and said he'd give me a call.
While I thought it a bit strange that a businessman would ask someone whom he had just met at a bookstore to join his business, and that an online business's website would be password protected, I quickly forgot about the encounter.
About a week later, the guy called me, saying that he'd just come up to Albany from NYC, and that he wanted to meet. I said OK, and then he said that his "associate" would be there with him. I thought "fine, whatever, let's see what this is about."
I thought that at this meeting, I would find out all the details about this new energy drink manufacturer and its distribution business. The "associate" talked for about half an hour, but all I heard was that I could make six figures in five years with this business and that the guy who prospected me was making five figures and well on his way to six. Whenever I asked for some more details, I was told that I would have to come to another, "group" meeting in a few days.
The upcoming week was a busy one for me, so I asked how often these meetings are held. The "associate" told me, every week, but that I was invited to this one and that I had to come in two days. I thought that there was something fishy about the way they were pressuring me to attend NOW, but in the end, I thought, "what the hell, why not find out about this?"
The meeting room that I walked into was full of sharply-dressed, successful-looking people, all toting leather-bound folders and drinking cans of XS. After ten minutes, a video presentation started. The presentation--which I thought was incredibly amateurish in its concept and execution--showed happy people relaxing on boats all thanks to the fortunes they earned through this part time business, Quixtar. ANd they succeeded at this business with the help of materials provided by Britt Worldwide, a widely-known training and support company.
After the vdeo presentation, a middle-aged guy in a suit gave a speech explaining the virtues of the business and then started drawing the infamous circles. It was at this point that I realized that this wasn't for me.
Before the talk of "sponsoring" other people, I saw that this business could be viable as a wholesale distribution venture; i.e. buy a new energy drink at a low price and sell it to supermarkets and the such. Since I knew several market owners back in Miami, I thought that this could have some moneymaking possibility. However, I was never going to hang around in bookstores and sell this "business" to people I didn't know.
After the presentation, I made one last attempt to evaluate the viability of Quixtar as a wholesale business. I asked the aforementioned "associate" about the pricing of products in the Quixtar catalog. After ten minutes of trying, I finally got the response that a can of XS would cost about $1.70 to a Quixtar IBO. At that point I mentioned that I could get Red Bull, a much better-known energy drink, at Costco for $1.30 per can. They tried to tell me about how superior XS is to Red Bull, but I politely excused myself and left.
When I came home, I promptly googled Quixtar and came upon this site, among others. (I have been reading QBlog ever since.) It still amazes me how similar all the recruiters' speeches and techniques are and how pathetic it must be to have to repeatedly deceive people in order to get them to sign up for your "business."
Wow, that's a great post. That's what I was talking about.
First time I was prospected by a friend from US in 2001. He flew to Toronto and took me to Radisson hotel. Sugeet Ajmani was there, told the horrors of jobs and lay offs etc. And how he sleeps until 11 AM (and show the plan thousands miles away from his family in a cold hell). I was told about the server melt down etc.
I wasn't impressed, a bit scared. I had a good job etc.
After a year, 2002, I got laid off. My mom met a lady on public transport. She told her that they set up small business for other people. She also told my mom whether you are looking young girls for your sons. My mom was. So we went there. PLAN. I opposed it, but my dad gave $350 to my mom. We thought my parents should give it a shot. But then they didn't drive so I have to help them drive and stuff. Then we went to FED. Got fired up and signed up as their first leg.
After a year giving it our best shot, losing $10,000 and subsequently losing house, we quit.
And I still get prospected all the time. Last weekend in Wal-Mart.
http://quixtarsucks.blogspot.com/2005/07/encounter-with-aliens.html
Frank,
I have to ask, are you the BWW Diamond IBO?
Just curious,
X
To all:
I like this 'I sleep untill 11 everyday' stuff. Man, I used to do this. It is called 2nd shift!! The exact thing that A/Q people do. Do whatever all day long (assuming, a bad one I know, that they are 'retired') and then 5-7 nights a week it is out and working from about 6:00 to who knows when trying to keep up with the 'monkey race' (Like the rat race, but a little more foolish). At least in my second shift jobs I knew I had a steady paycheck and predictable hours!!
What about the people who are still working? Work all day and all night, but the difference is that one job is feeding the other, not the same as having two jobs that both pay. Funny. I did ALL these things in my list so far. If I could choose any, it would be the working in the bakery 5am-2pm with my current salery. In the absence of that, I'll take a 9-5 M-F and get well paid. I even get most of the summer off, weekends off, and a lot of time to enjoy life. I don't need an island to be happy...
Where are the ambots to talk about how GREAT these pitches are?!?!? Fire UP!!!!
I never got prospected, but my boyfriend did and ended up signing up. He does residential heating and cooling and he got "contacted" by one of his customers after the two of them were having a conversation about engineering (my boyfriend also has a degree in engineering). He told my bf that he and some other engineers were working on starting a business and looking for people to come on board. My bf brought his resume and everything to the plan thinking he was going on a job interview! I guess the whole idea of never being able to feel secure in your j.o.b got my bf interested. He went to a meeting and signed on with Team of Destiny.
I was extremely dubious and cynical of the whole thing from the beginning, but how bad could it be if they taught such things as becoming a better person, family values, and the like? Little did I know this was all part of the indoctrination! After about four months, my bf was spending loads of money each month to get his PV up and get a measly $16.00 check. He was going to open meetings and seminars ($100!!) every month. Not to mention that he was buying CD of the week (2-3 of them) and book of the month. He finally convinced me to attend a seminar and it was truely frightening! This was a weekend event and the Saturday part was an all day and all night thing. I couldn't believe that these people sat in this stadium for 12 hours listening to the same crap!
It was soon after that seminar that I refused to have anything to do with his "business". Then I started to wonder where exactly all that money went from the CDs, books, and seminars. Someone had to be pocketing that money. So, I researched it. I found this site and also read Merchants of Deception and tried to get my boyfriend to listen. But they tell you it's not Amway, it's different...Bull S***!!! Finally, I told him I couldn't imagine a future with him if he was going to do this "business". I can't imagine raising children with my husband involved in this crap. So, I guess it came down to me or the "business" and he chose me.
I still frequent this site even though my bf isn't "in" anymore. I like to read the updates as well as other people's stories. They are all so similar! I'm so glad he got out before any more financial damage could be done!
It was 1980 or so, and I was working as an animal control officer. (read "dog catcher")
One day I was in the office, on the phone, helping a visitor, and also on the dispatch radio, when a couple walked in to adopt a dog.
I apologize for the current chaos, and made the joking comment that "I was a big businessman at work, and could they please wait a few minutes.
They laughed, and went the dust settled, and they were the only one that remained in the office, they adopted their new dog and then mentioned that if I truly was ever interested in being a "business man" to give them a call and they handed me a business card and left.
I called and attended a meeting that next night.
That was my first exposure to Amway.
I find it VERY interesting/ironic that people from non-business backgrounds (engineering, dog-catcher, etc.) are SO interested in owning their own business.
I think that has a lot to do with the fact that so many of these IBOs fail.
Granted, the system is fixed. And yes, a lot of people don't have the drive/determination to make it anyway.
But why oh why do non-business folks go into business???
I don't wake up one day and decide to go into dog catching.....
Interesting to say the least.....
Exactly, what else do you expect from a person who has never done any sales / marketing? He will end up doing all the dirty stuff like pushing friends and family. Keep in mind IBOs can't really advertise and stuff.
Keyword: Dream.
So, Dave, what convinced you that you could do this?
You had no formal training and these guys were pitching mansions and boats as rewards for a high level of performance.
What was your roadmap? What did they show you to go from Point A (Dogcatcher) to Point B (Businessman-Millionaire)?
Or am I wrong is assuming that Point B was Businessman-Millionaire. Did they/you have lower sights that made it more feasible? I am honestly intrigued to hear...
..especially from you because you tell it straight....
xanadustc,
The answer to your question is no. I have had a lot experiences with that LOS. Frank's group broke off from Brian Herosians group a couple of years ago because a lot of tool fraud was commited.
Joe Brausser who was an emerald in that group was "kicked out" because he was stung taking money from his downline to run a "E-Spring" reseller business. I don't know the exact amounts but I do know a lot of people got burned. He had to serve some community service because he wrote a check from one of his downline that had quit for a considerable amount of money. I believe he was charged with fraud.
Garry Sadden is another emerald in that group. I heard that he is selling cell phones out the back of his van.
That whole line of sponsorship really went down hill.
Bobby Britt used to tie his group into Frank's but stoppped about a year ago.
This is a very dangerous group to belong to. There is a lot of information that I would prefer not to get into. I do know that a lot emeralds and diamonds in that group that still have outstanding legal issues.
I would warn anybody looking at getting into this LOS is to avoid it. These are very dangerous people and I know that a lot people that were seriously hurt by this group, both emtionaly and financely.
It's like Garry and Greg Janke use to say "There are many different ways to define ethics"
Frank,
Can you look over my LOS list for BWW
http://www.webraw.com/quixtar/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1969
to see if you can make any additions or corrections?
Thank you!
Jim70
df,
I was outta my first semester of college, I was a Theatre/business major. I was performing locally..banquets, civic events, organizations and such. I landed the job of animal control officer through a friend on the police department. Bear in mind, I was all of 19 and living in a small town.
But I did have a desire to be self-employed or involved in management...in my case artist management.
I have always assumed that my then-sponsor took my comment about being a "big businessman at work" as a comment on my dissatisfaction with the job at hand and my desire for more.
Also bear in mind, that the original entry posted by "Not QBlog" was about our "first experience" with Amway and Quixtar.
I did later on in life work several jobs in sales and marketing and owned my own video production company, attained a degree in Journalism and Public Relations and sat on several state and regional boards.
It was after this experience, that I later sought out another sponsor after the formation of Quixtar.
Dave, thanks for the clarification. I think there are a lot of layers to your story. But I am trying to get an understanding on a "lowest common denominator"- type of level.
So, I pose these question to the rest of the IBOs out there:
What convinced you to go into business when you didn't have any business training?
What instilled that need to go into business when the need wasn't strong enough to get you to take business classes?
This isn't baiting or leading. I am looking for good honest answers.
df,
While we wait on other IBOs and even ex-IBOs to answer your question: I'll take a stab at it.
I talk about this topic a lot in a different way at my blog. It frustrates me that MLM companies often target people from "all walks of life" to be business owners, when most just don't have the temperment for it.
I think a lot of the problem comes from the culture of the 80s instilling the mindset that it is a badge of courage to break out on your own.
Infomercials, magazine articles, books, news interviews, all tout the self employed entrpreneur.
We treat the successful business maverick like a rock star.
40 feet of wall space in bookstores devoted to "starting your own business".
And that phrase I hear the most that I call non-MLM tapespeak..."Find what you love, and build a business around it."
It's no wonder, that we see Carleton Sheets talk about "No Down Payment" for 20+ years on TV and finally decide, "ok he must be on to something"
Starting a traditional business is tough; filled with financial complications, paperwork, and tireless hours...but the opportunity to "just spend $12.00 dollars a month and get into the lucrative beef jerky MLM business" could be that course around all those problems.(YES, There is a real beef jerky MLM)
It's human nature to want something and want the easiest way to get it.
Dave
That was an excellent "stab" Dave.
Now I got beef jerky on the brain....
...mmmm...jeeerrrr-kkkk..yyyy
You mean I could be a millionaire by distributing my own beef jerky? Fire Up!
Anyone else?!?
Check it out..wwww.jerkymoney.com
And no, it's not MY site.
Best jerky in the US comes from Wagner's Meats in Mt. Airy, MD. They will ship.
It's made on their premises, and if your lucky you'll get one of the strips that has the "hole" in it from hanging to dry.
mmm...mmmmm..good!
It will be hard to beat the jerkies coming from Northern Michigan. They have a lot of different game (duck jerky?!?) represented by a lot of small mom and pop shops. Half of the fun of going up there is hitting the jerky shops.
But, I'll check it out.
Well I have a Bachelors in Business with concentrations in marketing and management, but I think most people do it, because its not the typical business. It doesn't matter what business training you have, there is training involved. We show you what to do, we have weekly trainings, product of the week, Product seminars, SAM /Artistry clinics, conferences, books, etc.
you know all that part of the business you guys hate.
You don't need prior business experience to be successful, though it might help. But I know teachers, construction guys, pyschiatrists, engineering students, etc that are very successful at this. Larry Winters worked at a CarWash, Joe M. and Doug Weir were both Engineers. Alan Leininger was in Med school - ALL are Diamonds! Mike Waecheter worked in cubeland as a claims adjustor for Allied Insurance, gonna be a Diamond at this FED in 1 month. Matt Grotewald worked in construction, he's an Emerald, near Diamond. My sponsors in college - he's Gold, almost Platinum.
So I don't think it matters your business experience or even your personality, though some may have an advantage over others. But you can learn the things you need to and succeed, or you can not. And its OK to choose not to. But I've seen people with all different backgrounds succeed, some are outgoing, and some are reserved. It doesn't matter.
Tonybot>"...because its not the typical business."
Typical business involves the exchange of goods and/or services.
How is A-Q not typical in this regard ???
Oh, A-Q isn't typical in the way that profits are retained and/or distributed.
Now I get it.
But that distribution issue sucks. It isn't fair because the same money continues to circulate within the 'organization', eventually floating to the tippy top of the "triangle" !!!
So, I have business training and I can see this scam for what it is.
But, Joe Schmoe (the dude without biz training) can't see that.
Maybe that's why you go after the un-informed......
So how about some more of those "how I was recruited" stories?
When I was 18, I was invited to a beer party by a friend. Lo and behold, there's guys in suits drawing circles. I asked where's the beer? My friend tells me that I can have all the beer I want when I go diamond.
Also got prospected while working part time as a cashier. I was asked if I wanted to make money? I responded that I was doing that with my job. End of that one.
My cousin calls me and said I was a sharp guy. I said "oh, you're selling amway"?
I finally did get in the business though, when a friend of mine called and told me he joined, and went direct, and that he would personally help me do the same.
Of course when I went $4000 and was losing money, I had serious doubts.
I was actually prospected earlier today lol. I had to stop at the bank to make a checking deposit so I could pay my bills and some dude I didn't know said something to me, I didn't know he was talking to me. Anyway I stopped at Panera Bread (I could live on that alone lol)before I went back to work and sure enough the same guy was there. I don't know if he followed me or what, but he says "didn't I just see you at the bank?" and I'm a smartass by nature and said "You may have seen me but I didn't see you" and I laughed. He says "That's pretty funny." Then he asks "What do you do?" I tell him I'm the General Manager of a wholesale welding distributor. I kinda knew where he was going since I've heard this before. He says "Ever keep your options open to making more money?" I say "Who doesn't?" He says "Well I have an internet business that redirects buying power and shows people how to make money by shopping online" I say "No Shit? It wouldn't happen to be Quixtar would it?" I totally caught him off guard. He stutters "Well.................. well, not really. I have my own business, Quixtar is just my supplier" I laugh loudly,really loudly, in fact a few people looked in our direction I think he was getting embarrassed. I told him I'd rather "stay broke and be a loser and have self worth then try to pass off an internet business as something it isn't"
I'll give it to him, after I picked up my food I heard him talking to someone else without conscience. I swear all Quixtar has done is brought telemarketers out in the open to go face to face with you.
I've got a very good friend who has been in quixtar for the last 5 years. He is completely brainwashed. I asked him today if he will ever get to the point where he will finally get out and he said never. He mentioned that this business is his calling especially because he is leading people to Christ.
I am extremely worried about him...He has 2 children, 4 and 2. He is constantly going to these meetings and I know for a fact he attends every meeting he can, buys all of his own products, and buys those stupid tapes and books etc.
What can I do to try and convince him that he is headed down the wrong road? I really apreciate your help.
WorriedinSC
WorriedinSC,
I can relate to your concern. I too have family deeply involved, and have been asking the same questions. It is a difficult situation, start by seeking out and arming yourself with the indisputable facts.
Unfortunately we are dealing with a cult here. It is very hard to deprogram people when they are as deeply entrenched as your friend. You can find much more information and advice if you search the forum, it is linked on the home page of this blog at the top menu bar. Good Luck!
I was approached not one, not two, not 3 but 4 times - all different guys but same place @ BORDERS. so when you go to Borders or Barnes and Nobles, look around you and if you see someone appearing to be interested in you - start running or shoot 'em down right away unless its a really hot chick then you might wanna take your chance, you can quit anytime anyway just in case it a "quickie Star" hehehe.
I had a for rent sign outside my house and a lady called about it. I showed it to her and she seemed nice but said they were really looking for 2-bedrooms. Some fishy things about her was her husband had an engineering degree but was working full-time cleaning windows and doing some mysterious "online business". She saw my copy of "Rich Dad/ Poor Dad" book and commented she agreed with it fully . I thought to myself if you agree with that book , then why are you looking to rent property instead of owning your own to rent?
Anyways I got a call after a week wanting to meet me since her wife said I was very "entrepeneurial". Again some fishy things I picked up where he said he has an online business but does no coding or web development. Then he would not give me any details but named a time to meet me at Panera . I accepted, but never showed up. I stored his phone number on my clell as "spam", so i know not to answer it when he calls again! I only hope these kind of fools don't get violent??
Next time, Ill be smarter and not give them any chance to even talk to me.
I was in A from 1993-96. Once I went prospecting at Wal-Mart in my little suit and red tie and struck up a conversation with a guy at the magazine rack. Were we embarrassed when we found out we were both in Amway? Why yes, we were.
It's funny that you say that Gordon. I always ask people involved with this scam they call a business. If it's such a ethical, credible business why don't you just come out and say it's Quixtar or Amway? Maybe because they are very ashamed to be involved with a business that has no ethics or credibility. I feel sorry for all the people (especially those between the ages of 18-22) who will be duped into believing they can really retire or be financially set in 2-5 years.
Paul Kopecky is 23 years old, He got started with Qx when he was 20. He's a Sapphire (2 groups over Platinum) with groups 3 & 4 at 4,000-6,000pv. 1 of his guys is a Saphire himself, about to start Emerald Qualification, also.
Paul makes between $4,000-$5,000 per month and with bonuses is making about a 6-figure income! His Best month is $22,000!!
So BIG DOG, when Paul graduates from college in Dec or next June - he will NOT be looking for a job, neither will his 22 yr old downline Saphire!
I guess these 2 WERE financially set in 2-5 years!!
Oh, and there part of Mike Waechters team - he and his wife Jana will be new Diamonds at FED in 1 month!
WorriedinSC,
Are you a Christian? If so, look at the differences between true faith and what Q offers. You will see that it is nothing more than an affinity fraud case using Word-Faith materials to "tickle the ears" of the people.
Also, since it is a cult, get as much info as possible about cults in general and that particular cult, there is lots out there, check out www.freedomofmind.com for Steve Hassen's take on this material.
Let me know if you want any other info,
xanadustc@hotmail.com
Tony, could you explain one thing to me?
Read my story above and then tell me why did the people who tried to recruit me use so much deception when telling me about this business? And why do countless others tell of the SAME EXACT experience?
If this business is so great, then why do you need to hide its true nature from people?
Don,
I don't use deception when talking about my business. If someone asks me if its Quixtar, I tell them yes, and find out what they know or think about it.
If I'm sitting down with someone and they ask questions I answer them, if I know the answers. And yes, of course I invite them to the open seminar, so that they can see its not just me, and so that they can see the presentation from someone with more experience than me. We don't use any videos at our meeting, we just have a gesut speaker explain hoe the business works.
You said you thought the 1st meeting was gonna be about the energy drink and its distribution business. Thats pretty much what they showed you! The energy drink is just 1 of 1million products, but they showed you the distribution business, if you wanted to focus on just XS you could.
And let me get this straight? you decide not to proceed with even a retail business because Redbull is .40cents cheaper?? Do you know the difference between "well vodka" and "top shelf"? Do you understand that Coors light is cheaper than a Sam Adams, Heiniken or Guiness? People pay more for a better drink and XS is handsdown better than Redbull. 1)you can't pick a flavor of redbull, they have 1! - XS has 8! Redbull is loaded with sugar, and caffeine - some people actually care about that, and would like 1 that has no sugar, and we even have 2 flavors that are caffeine free too! I personally have bars carrying it now, and I have crossline friends, that make decent $ selling to to bars.
Joe Markiewicz had a guy way down in depth that used to be a RedBull rep, but became an IBO, the guy sold 1000 cases of XS in 1 month!!
Not to mention the gift albums! Remember the woman I spoke of who made $25,000 in 2 months from corporate gift album accounts. She's now at $65,000+! ask her how she views Quixtar as a distribution business. Come on Don, there ARE people who do this just to move some products and make $$, not buying any tools, not going to seminars, etc. you don't have to be Christian, you don't have to be 'core', you can do it as a simple retail/wholesale business with just member/clients and corporate accounts. Sorry you missed out.
Oh but to answer your main question, why are some people not quick to say Amway or Quixtar - simple, because there are so many people who just 'hear' things and believe it, and never get the facts, never even look into it. So many people read this stuff and that the end of the 'research road'. But if someone can get past the negative hype, and actually go to a meeting, see the details presented, sit back down and ask questions, look at the numbers, try the products, etc. then maybe they can make an informed decision. And if that decision is no, thats fine with me, I don't wanna drag anyone along. But for someone who could've done it, and been successful, but never tried, cause they heard something bad about it, well thats not fair for them.
xanadustc,
I just sent you an e-mail.
WorriedinSC
First of all, Tony, I wasn't asking how *you* do the business. I was referring to how my recruiter was trying to deceive me by not telling me the whole story right away and how countless others have been similarly approached.
Second, if you actually read what I wrote, I said that at the first meeting (that is, not the "chance encounter" at the bookstore) they didn't tell me ANYTHING about how the e-drink distribution business works, nothing about its logistics, nothing about the company that the IBO told me that he was a "wholesaler" for! All they told me was about potential income possibilities and how imperative it was that I attend the group meeting. At the end of the group meeting, it took me considerable effort to even get them to tell me the price of the damn drink, and even more effort to tell me the average IBO retention rate!
Finally, Tony, I know very well the difference between cheap shit and good product; to use your alcohol example, I drink only microbrews and Grey Goose. HOWEVER, from a business perspective, Red Bull is a very well-known product (and yes, they DO have a sugarfree version.) Hardly anyone except the IBO community and their friends have heard of XS. There are no ads for XS; I haven't seen anyone on South Beach (or ANYWHERE for that matter, other than the IBO meeting) drinking or selling XS; it's not a well-known name, even if it is a good drink. Therefore, from a business standpoint, it is much easier and more profitable for me to move a cheaper, well-known drink than an expensive drink that no one has heard of.
When I mentioned that simple fact to the IBO's "acquaintance" after the group meeting, he told me that all I had to do was to walk around drinking it and people would come up to me and ask me "what is that you're drinking?" What a load of BS! What did I do to have my intelligence insulted like that? It took me a lot of self-control not to laugh in his face right there.
Finally, why is it that NO OTHER COMPANY is so worried about negative information as Quixtar is? When recruiters come to my college campus they don't tell me that they have this amazing business where I should work to make a fortune. They say, "we are Morgan Stanley" or "Merril Lynch" or "Bain," whatever. Only AmQuix tries to hide their identity. Maybe there's a reason?
I didn't know ANYTHING about Amway/Quixtar before I got approached; I never even heard the name. But the deceptive behaviour of the IBO and his upline was enough to raise big red flags in my head about the dishonest nature of the organization.
Don,
You have to understand a couple of things about Tony.
There is an old saying in the biz "You can justify anything."
So it doesn't matter what you throw at this guy he will always be able to justify that what he is doing is right. That is what makes this cult so dangerous.
You have to understand Don that right from the beginning the brain washing begins. Every venue, every tool, every outting is an opportunity for that new IBO to be subjected to intense programming.
Steve Hassan website is a great reference. Tony makes all these claims but thier is never any way to back any of them up.
I would warn you not to read to much into what Tony is trying to sell you. It really is the candy coated poision pill anaology.
Make no mistake, this is a dangerous cult. And it will effect your loved ones not only financially but more so emtionally.
Don, I was telling YOU how i do business, so you stop assuming all IBOs are the same! Just because they didn't focus just on XS didn't mean they deceived you. So it wasn't exactly what you expected, they did explain the distribution business. Also here s a few links dealing with XS in the media, thought you might enjoy...
http://entertainment.msn.com/photos/gallery.aspx?photo=503874&gallery=8308
http://entertainment.msn.com/photos/gallery.aspx?photo=506602&gallery=8308
Hmm.... some Rankings by the Beverage Network. Looks like XS is right behind RedBull...
http://www.thebevnet.com/reviews/rankings.asp
Goto XSgear.com and click on XS Nation, and then "XS invades MTV" to see more pics of the MTV Movie Awards buffet, where MTV was the official energy drink.
Check out the new apparel and see the "Energy Amplified" T-shirt, the one Pauly Shore is holding up in the 2nd link.
http://www.xsgear.com/store/productCategory.asp?cid=2&f1=new
Oh, and XS was also featured in an X-Box paintball game by pro Greg Hastings!
And last but not least- there is a new movie coming out that featured XS, its about surfing on the Great Lakes, its called "Unsalted". You can see the DVD on XSgear:
http://www.xsgear.com/store/productDetails.asp?pid=2121&cid=1
Ya, I think you're right only IBOs know about XS. :P
Tony you are too funny sometimes, The reviewers on your little site are obvious IBO sales people! This is a case where IBOs are not allowed to openly advertise, so instead they will write rave reviews on websites, they can then refer prospects to the site to see how great it is.
A mere 650 people that reviewed it are not what I would consider a large demographic group by any standard. Too many "!!!" in their reviews to be real, it all smacks of sales excitement.
Here is a review of Rockstar on the same site.
"Who wants to be a rockstar!!!!! To big, TO corny. I could only picture a loser wanting to hold and drink this product!!!!"
Wow, doesn't that sound like an IBO tapespeaking, it made me laugh. Look at those "!!!" Nice site Tony, you sold me, little buddy.
T> Don, I was telling YOU how i do business, so you stop assuming all IBOs are the same! Just because they didn't focus just on XS didn't mean they deceived you. So it wasn't exactly what you expected, they did explain the distribution business. Also here s a few links dealing with XS in the media, thought you might enjoy...
DI> Tony, do you know how to read or did you purposefully ignore what I said? What's the matter, the Quixtar tools don't have any reading comprehension lessons? Maybe you should've paid attention in college...
I said I don't care how YOU do business, I was talking about the IBOs that treid to recruit ME and the fact that their techniques are very similar to those described by many others on the net.
Second, they didn't just not talk about XS (and I have a problem with that because the IBO made me think that he OWNED (not even franchised) a wholesaling business that was one of the few distributors of XS, rather than some insignificant IBO in a sea of a hundred thousand) but they didn't even talk about the basics that people talk about when they try to sell a business. All they told me were things like "you could earn six figures in five years!" and when I asked specific questions, they told me that all would be revealed at the group meeting. That is deceptive (as in not telling the whole truth right away) and it is a waste of my time, which is at best disrespectful.
I also don't care whether some celebrity was paid to pose with XS or not. Maybe the brand is FINALLY advertising, good for them. What concerned me at the time was that I was dealing with a virtually unknown brand at a higher price. And the upline's bullshit "people are gonna ask you what it is, just walk around drinking it!" explanation sure as hell didn't give me any reason to take him seriously as a businessman.
Also Tony, why didn't you answer any of the other points I raised?
See Don.
Was I right about Tony. You can feel the grease dripping off that guy.
Ya know Tony for someone that has so much on his plate it amazes me how you have the time to sit here and constantly respond to all of these comments, yet you're out building a succesful business(Cough Cough) Shouldn't you be out telling people about a great business opportunity and quoting the likes of Larry Winters,Charlie Durso, Dave Severn, Bill Britt and the other pieces of human garbage that prey on young people's dreams in order to take advantage of them?
I have no clue how old you are, but maybe when you mature a little you'll realize what a mistake you made. Either that or you'll wind up alone and shirtless. I also think I'd tend to believe every 1,000 people who are against Quixtar/Amway to the one that defends it. Those numbers are the most telling of all.
Bomb, yeah you were. I guess every newcomer thinks he might be able to beat some sense into him but gives up eventually. Oh well. He'd be entertaining if he wasn't so sad.
But right now, I still want him to answer my questions :P
Don,
Good Luck getting an intelligent answer from Tony. If you get anything at all it will be Amspeak.
Don, Tony (like most IBO's) will always respond to your questions but they will never actually answer them. Instead they'll tell you "Oh this guy says" or "He makes $3,000 a month how can it be a scam?" or my favorite "You don't know the facts". My friend uses that one constantly when I say anything "negative" about his (business COUGH COUGH)
Since I AM busy at work, could each of you ignorant condescending critbots nicely list all of the questions I supposedly skipped.
This is horrible, a whole new crew of critbots joining spouting the same critspeak, and same half-truths, I seriously grwong tired of. Seriously assholes, right now your gripes and I will answer them all, once and for all - I've rebuted everything you nimwits have said and I'm frankly growing tired of it.
And no I own my own house, and I'm late
20's.
And Don, is it their fault you made your own assumptions - the guy never said he own an energy drink manufacturer, DID HE??
I told you some IBOs might not be forthright with the name Qx, because of some peoples perceived negativity toward it - not to mention this guy is an IBO, an Ind Business Owner, and just like Golden State Foods is the exclusive supplier for McDonalds, Qx is the excl supplier for this guys business.
And I have had people walk up to me and ask me what its was. I've got a shirt that on the back says "No carbs, no sugar, only 8 calories", and I had a woman come up to me and ask "excuse me, what has no sugar, etc..." So perhaps you shouldn't just laugh at that. But yea, you can go out and actively promote it to! I've set up booths and gotten members and even IBO's from sampling booths!
XS didn't Pay any celebrity's to pose with the drinks.
And there's a reason theres so few pro-qx on here versus critics! Most IBOs have figured out theres pretty much no use talking to a bunch of negtive critbots blasting the business on here. thats why theres so few. And with all the whining crybabies in this world looking to pass blame, what else are all you critbots gonna do but bitch on this forum. And just so you know critic doesn't = critbot. You can be critical of the business. You can have tried it, gave you all , and just not have it work out for you. A critbot is a POS who tried it, and for what ever reason it didn't work and now there on here blaming the compnay as a whole, or calling it a cult, or lumping ALL IBOs together! Or the worst, the guy who was never in, but knew aguy who knew a guy, and this must be a scam, blahblahblaaaaah...
I really feeling the credits about to role. Waitng for that list of questions and gripes!
T> This is horrible, a whole new crew of critbots joining spouting the same critspeak, and same half-truths
DI> Pot, meet kettle. Kettle, pot. Shake.
T> And Don, is it their fault you made your own assumptions - the guy never said he own an energy drink manufacturer, DID HE??
DI> Still suck at that reading comprehension, huh? Did I say that he said that he owned a manufacturer? NO. Why don't you reread what I said?
T>I told you some IBOs might not be forthright with the name Qx, because of some peoples perceived negativity toward it - not to mention this guy is an IBO, an Ind Business Owner, and just like Golden State Foods is the exclusive supplier for McDonalds, Qx is the excl supplier for this guys business.
DI> So is it "preceived" negativity, or is it actually there? And why are you so afraid of negativity and criticism? Why is Alticor changing Wikipedia entries and Googlebombing? What is it about this corporation that can't candle criticism?
Funny, if I want to franchise a McD's (let's go with the long-running example on this board) no one tries to hide anything from me. No one says "oh I've got this restaurant business." ANd McD's has it's own share of negative criticism BUT IT DOESN'T HIDE WHO IT IS. And again: why is it that NO OTHER COMPANY is so worried about negative information as Quixtar is? When recruiters come to my college campus they don't tell me that they have this amazing business where I should work to make a fortune. They say, "we are Morgan Stanley" or "Merril Lynch" or "Bain," whatever. Only AmQuix tries to hide their identity. Maybe there's a reason?
Read my post CAREFULLY this time so you don't misinterpret what I said. Or go back to college and take some reading comp. classes, 'cause those tapes sure ain't teaching you shit.
From the way this was presented to me, at each of the three meetings, I KNOW that there are a lot of non-kosher things about this business. Every question I asked was either never or reluctantly and equivocally (know these words, Tony?) answered.
Good lord Tony, you're a walking advertisement? How pathetic is that? Damn, when I go out I do it for pleasure, not for business. Man, I really feel sorry for you people, hanging around bookstores, waiting for unsuspecting prey. What a sad excuse for a "business."
Don,
Don't get sucked in! Remember Tony has learned to decieve, lie and distort the truth to accomedate his agenda.
Never fall for the picture that Tony is trying to paint for you. You will find after a lot of heart ache that there is nothing under it.
Tony, there were quite some IBOs ( I heard) few years ago debating online. Now u r the last of the mohicans.
Hang in there man. Don't give up. Remember 50, 000 ppl read this site. You need only 6....
Tonybot wrote:
"I told you some IBOs might not be forthright with the name Qx, because of some peoples perceived negativity toward it"
You're still not answering the question posed to you, oh great bot one.
Why are people having this "perceived negativity" towards amquix in the first place?
quote: "Don't get sucked in! Remember Tony has learned to decieve, lie and distort the truth to accomedate his agenda."
In his defense, Tony really believes what he is spouting. He is sincere in most everything he's posted. He's not deliberately lying, he's simply drunk the kool-aid and thinks it's wonderful, and is trying to share the joy.
In fact, that's probably what makes most lower-level IBOs so dangerous...they don't give off the vibes you get from someone who is lying or being deceptive, becasue they really don't think they are.
CK,
You may be right. However I believe that there may be more to Tony then he is letting on.
I agree with you that new Ambots are the most dangerous. They walk around with be hearts trying to change the world. And thats commendable. They buy all the lyes from thier upline sinking all thier savings into more CD's, functions, nutesn'bolts, night owls, books.
They edify the crap out of thier newly so called "friend" of an upline. In must cases stretching the truth is replaced with outword lying but by then guys like Tony can't see the difference because they have lost the ability to think logically.
It goes back to my orginaly point from before trying rationlize with Tony, M&m or any of the others is a waste of time. Eventually they will be forced between a rock and a hard spot financalliy. Either that will be enough to wake them up or they will continue to destory thier credit by pouring money into a bottomless pit.
My heart goes out to the all the Tony's of the world. I respect someone with a dream. I really do. We need more dreamers.
I wish Tony all the best, but for the sake of his future and his family's future I hope he wakes up from Oz sooner rather then later.
CK wrote:
"In his defense, Tony really believes what he is spouting. He is sincere in most everything he's posted. He's not deliberately lying, he's simply drunk the kool-aid and thinks it's wonderful, and is trying to share the joy."
I don't know if I would necessarily agree with that. If Tony were your typical mindless quixbot looking to spread the cheer, he would have been blown away by the "negativity" on this board a very long time ago.
Yet he still persists on this board - swearing at and ridiculing everybody to boot - when it is very clear, even to the most inane idiot, that nobody here is interested in his quixscam opportunity.
This means that Tony continues to linger on here for one of two reasons (or possibly both):
1) He is being paid off by the amquix lobby interests to try to combat anything derogatory said about quixtar.
2) Tony is extremely jealous of the mind wielding power that the big pins exhibit when speaking on stage at the various robot functions, and he figures that the next best thing that he could do in order to feed that tremendous ego of his is to participate on a first page search engine quixtar critics board that has a lot of exposure in cyberspace.
Let's just say that Tony is like the human version of spyware that is maliciously installed on someone's PC. He's annoying, redundant, makes absolutely no sense whatsoever, and promotes a lot of false claims.
Perhaps the biggest comparison of all, however, is that both are almost impossible to get rid of.
On the lighter side, another similarity that they have is that in rare instances they both, in an absurd sort of way, can be entertaining to follow with their ludicrous statements that they make.
MLM Scam,
I will second that. There is more to Tony then just the Kool Aid!
I highly doubt that Tony is being paid for his ramblings, and if he is, well, I'd demand a refund.
I've read Amquix press releases and PR propoganda, and it's all very slick, well done, well-worded, and generally sticks to a defensible position (not that there are many of those, but they seem adept at capitalizing on the few that exist). Tony likes to present what I have previously referred to as "anecdotal factoids" to support claims that even AmQuix itself doesn't make.
I can't imagine what 'ulterior motive' Tony might have except that he really believes what he's writing. Whether ego is involved (who here has no ego?) is irrelevent. Even an ego the size of a Chrysler still has to believe what he's writing to continue to do so...
I think we have become so used to shady dealing, deception, and outright lies with regard to this company that we see a plot where none exists.
But, I've been wrong before...
Hey and Tony you should realy stop talking about al thos people you supposely know that make all this money. We don't care about you sorry examples! What about your own personal facts? How are your finances? Can we see a copy of your W2 and then your checking account? If you are doing so good and it's the best thing that ever happened to you and you fully support it and don't have nothing to hide you should be able to provide that information for me!
Well bring it on Tony!
come on mlm - you're smarter than that. You say no one here is interested in Qx, but then you think Qx is paying me to post here? Why would they do that?
1st of all, some people here ARE interested in Qx. They read this and sometimes run! Others have enough sense to do some real research, and not just believe what some yahoo says about there experience.
I do feel sorry for those who tried, and didn't make it. I've always said, just because you quit doesn't make you a loser, and no we are not taught that. Some people who quit and b!tch about it are losers. I'm only rude to those who are rude to me.
You can do this business without being deceitful. And I AM! You can do it with no tools, or functions. I choose to use some of the tools, but I don't force it on anyone! Maybe there need to be more IBOs like me, but there ARE planty of IBOs like me. I'm sorry some of you felt like you were deceived.
And dominka, why do I have to be making $$ for this to be real. You want to see what I have done as if it would change your mind.
Then why should I not talk about what my sponsor is doing or my Diamond. Thanks, but I think I will continue to mention that my 22 yr old sponsor is making about $2500 a month, and that I've seen checks from my Diamond that were over $120,000 for 1 month!! (from just Qx, no tools). Just because I personally am not making a lot of $ doesn't mean that someone else can't. I have not worked as hard as my sponsor.
I HAVE already stated currently with all expenses, I usually don't make money. But I'm looking long term not short. I've also stated that I know a guy who owns a paintball store and he said he didn't see a profit for the 1st to years!! Should he have quit after 18 months of no profit or LOSS?? No, now 15 years later its all he does for income! But I've also seen a paintball store go out of business after 18 months. Thats business, its a risk, and its NOT FOR EVERYONE!
I think you'll find Tony's MO is to take a part of a point or question and to try to turn it back on the person asking - classic IBO technique.
Problem is - most of us were in the business so we also were schooled in that technique.
The little toy dog keeps yipping.
Nice way of dodging my arguments, what exactly did I turn back on anyone?? I think you need to look at your own tactics.
Why does everything I say have to be a "technique"? Isn't it at all possible, I'm just speaking from the heart, from my own expereinces, and point of view. Are you so gd skeptical that eveything I say has to be tapespeak, or some deceiptful tactic, or just because "I'm being paid to post"?? I feel sorry for some of you people!
Oh, and bruce - you're an A$$!
Allright, enough with the personal attacks on Tony, seriously. Why don't we ask questions, instead? Personally, I'm just wondering about several things, which Tony hasn't answered yet, so I'm going to repost the questions for a third time:
So is it "perceived" negativity, or is it actually there? And why are you so afraid of negativity and criticism? Why is Alticor changing Wikipedia entries and Googlebombing? What is it about this corporation that can't candle criticism?
Funny, if I want to franchise a McD's (let's go with the long-running example on this board) no one tries to hide anything from me. No one says "oh I've got this restaurant business." ANd McD's has it's own share of negative criticism BUT IT DOESN'T HIDE WHO IT IS. And again: why is it that NO OTHER COMPANY is so worried about negative information as Quixtar is? When recruiters came to my college campus they didn't tell me that they have this amazing business where I should work to make a fortune. They say, "we are Morgan Stanley" or "Merril Lynch" or "Bain," whatever. Only AmQuix tries to hide their identity. Maybe there's a reason?
Don, thanks for the civility. For some people the negativity IS there. for others it is not. You could say Quixtar to some people and they can be open minded, they can even read this or have watched Dateline, and know there must be more to the story.
For others, you can say Quixtar and they immediately have a negative view "oh, my brother was in that, he said it didn't work, or my parents told me it was a scam."
I'm not afraid of anything Don. I don't mind criticism, but there's a difference between criticiziing and blasting, and sometimes straight up lieing or misrepresenting! THAT I do not like!
No one says, there are some flaws, I wish could be fixed, no one says, I wish they made the tools 20% cheaper, I wish functions were only $50 vs $90 - its just "Its a cult, its scam - they only make money from selling you tools!!"
Thats what I have a problem with Don. I don't know about the Wikipedia entries, and googlebombing is a tactice to get a higher search rating. I don't know enough about it, but I think MANY companies do it to get a higher search ranking. Don't metatags and keywords do the samething. Aren't there companies sell software or registrations to get a higher ranking. I don't know enough about it, or really care. I've already said, theres somehting wronf with ANY search engine that doesn't bring up quixtar.com as # 1 if someone does a search on Quixtar. If someone searches Toyota, and Toyota.com isn't the 1st ranking, there's something wrong with that engine, IMO.
I've already touched on the McD thing, but I'll answer again. Ray Kroc, when promoting his business talked about HIS BUSINESS, which was McDonalds - he DIDN'T talk (as much) about his supplier, which was Golden State Foods. So some IBOs will mention the supplier, Qx, but will put more emphasis on their business, or YOUR business, if you're lookng to be an IBO, Qx is just our supplier, our GSF.
I don't think Quixtar is trying to hide their identity. I tell people Quixtar is my supplier and we talk about Quixtar (by name) in our weekly Open Meeting. Quixtar is like an online mall, with Partners stores like Circuit City, Disney, IBM, etc.
T> Thats what I have a problem with Don. I don't know about the Wikipedia entries, and googlebombing is a tactice to get a higher search rating.
DI> Tony, read the Wikipedia entry on Googlebombing. WIkipedia tries its best to be an unbiased source, so you can't complain about "critbots." Googlebombing is a deceptive means of bumping up search engine results, and no other big companies have done it. Meta tags (which you can also look up on WP) are a completely different matter.
T> I don't know enough about it, but I think MANY companies do it to get a higher search ranking. Don't metatags and keywords do the samething.
DI> No, and no.
T> Aren't there companies sell software or registrations to get a higher ranking. I don't know enough about it, or really care.
DI> Not with Google. You can buy a location at the top of the page on Google, but it is clearly marked as an AD and not as search results.
And you SHOULD care about it becaues -- pay attention here -- Alticor's underhanded tactics in this matter say A LOT about the ethics of the company and its desire to control negative information about it. McD's, for example, has never tried to suppress critical sites on the internet. Alticor has.
T> I've already said, theres somehting wronf with ANY search engine that doesn't bring up quixtar.com as # 1 if someone does a search on Quixtar.
DI> TOny, if there was something wrong with Google's search algorithms, it wouldn't be touted as the best, and most accurate search engine.
Finally, Tony, DON'T IGNORE this last paragraph. Users at IP addresses belonging to Alticor DELIBERATELY VANDALIZED Wikipedia entries for Quixtar and Googlebomb to remove critical, but TRUE information about Qx's googlebombing activities. Do you think that vandalizing a public encyclopedia in order to remove criticism of oneself is ethical behaviour and behavior that is fitting for a multibillion dollar corporation?
Don unless you can show me a check for legal services rendered, I don't think you can say what McDonalds has or hasn't done in regards to negative sites, or Any company for that mater. Quixtar has simply received more attention for it, because they have had more people directly involved with them.
As for googlebombing, I do not know for a fact the Quixtar did it, they may have. They may not have known it was... bad? cause its not illegal is it. Its just ahving a bunch of sites linkng to another site right? So like if i had a site, and then I linked to it from other sites ihad, or had my friends link to my site(s) it would improve my ranking. Maybe Google should have a different way to rank sites other than how many people link to it.
You can call Google the best - my point is if a search for Toyota, doesn't bring back Toyota.com - I don't care HOW esteemed the engine is, there is a problem with that. And it might be shady.
I think I know what you're talkng about now with wikipeida, in there definition of google-bombing they refer to Quixtars infamous googlebombing. I think that should be removed - you can't call yourself unbiased and then just pick one company that (supposedly) did it. And they may have, IDK -I don't work for them. But Wikpedia could easily define it without smeering one company while dong it.
You're gonna need to explain the "vandalism" - you're saying they hacked into it or what? How did they "vandalize" it? How could they remove critical info from Wikipedia, how did they get access? And how do you know this? How do you KNOW the IP address were from Alticor.
T> Don unless you can show me a check for legal services rendered, I don't think you can say what McDonalds has or hasn't done in regards to negative sites, or Any company for that mater. Quixtar has simply received more attention for it, because they have had more people directly involved with them.
DI> Tony, you ask me to back up my claim with "legal services rendered" then make an equally unsubstantiated claim in the second part of your paragraph. Hypocrisy, anyone? What I am doing is making an educated guess -- if McD's had tried to muzzle critics as Qx has, it surely would have exploded in their face, just as it did with Qx! There has been NO record of McD's, or any other large company creating dozens of IDENTICAL, FAKE weblogs in order to alter Google rankings.
T> As for googlebombing, I do not know for a fact the Quixtar did it, they may have. They may not have known it was... bad? cause its not illegal is it. Its just ahving a bunch of sites linkng to another site right?
DI> Tony, it is not illegal, no, because Google's guidelines are not enforced by the United States. However, what Qx did was UNETHICAL and Google reprimanded them for it. Do you not have a problem with UNETHICAL actions endorsed by this company? See the following links:
http://www.webraw.com/quixtar/archives/2004/10/the_quixtar_web_initiative.php
http://www.webraw.com/quixtar/archives/2004/11/quixtar_admits_google_bombing.php
http://www.webraw.com/quixtar/archives/2005/01/so_busted.php
T> So like if i had a site, and then I linked to it from other sites ihad, or had my friends link to my site(s) it would improve my ranking.
DI> If they are your actual friends and they link to your blog, that would be fine. However, if you yourself create many fake blogs that link to your blog, that's the unethical part.
T> Maybe Google should have a different way to rank sites other than how many people link to it.
DI> Google may not be perfect, but it is currently the most accurate search engine out there. Tell you what, Tony: Code a better one!
T> I think I know what you're talkng about now with wikipeida, in there definition of google-bombing they refer to Quixtars infamous googlebombing. I think that should be removed - you can't call yourself unbiased and then just pick one company that (supposedly) did it.
D> Tony, what if it's THE ONLY INSTANCE of a major company doing it? DO you think that if WalMart did something that underhanded it wouldn't be found out in a matter of weeks? Or do you really think there's some big conspiracy against Quixtar? Have you ever heard of Occam's razor, buddy?
T> You're gonna need to explain the "vandalism" - you're saying they hacked into it or what? How did they "vandalize" it? How could they remove critical info from Wikipedia, how did they get access?
DI> Tony, how is it possible to be so uninformed? Wikipedia is a COMMUNITY project -- it's open for anyone to edit, but a dedicated group maintains it as an unbiased encyclopedia. Deleting factual information without good reason, however, is considered VANDALISM.
T> And how do you know this? How do you KNOW the IP address were from Alticor.
DI> Tell you what, Tony, check it out for yourself. Look up Googlebomb in Wikipedia, and go back in the "history" to the beginning of March. You will see the address "167.23.0.90". If you click on "last" next to that IP address , you will see that the user removed negative info about Quixtar. Finally, if you trace that IP address, using a WHOIS utility such as ARIN:
http://ws.arin.net/cgi-bin/whois.pl?queryinput=167.23.0.90
You will see that the IP address belongs to ALTICOR.
That, Tony, is FACTUAL, UNDENIABLE PROOF of unethical behaviour by Alticor. Do you not have a problem with that.
Also, Tony, I should not have to teach you how to use the Internet (you are in e-commerce, right???) Please stay better informed.
The reason they are there Tony, is the same reason the Wright Bro's are credited in Aviation. Only in this case its not a nice historic moment. They are the FIRST large company to do this (and yes Google would have known if someone else had tried.) So yes they SHOULD be singled out and noted as such, they got caught with the hand in the Nutralite jar.
"The project was deemed a clear and flagrant violation of Google's Quality Guidelines"
Just because something is done which is not against the law, does not make it an ethical practice. But they probably don't go over that in the tapes, so nevermind.
I wonder if we will hear a response?
If I was taking bets Don I would say Tony will choose to ignore your well thought out checkmate.
Maybe a good taunting will improve the odds. I am guessing, "Who knows about those IP# thingys they are kinda shady."
Unfortunately, I think you may be right, Dawson. He has already consistently ignored a question I posed to him (and repeated 3 tims) about Quixtar's regulations, entrepreneurship, and "business owner mentality." That's in the "Monday Reader Mail 52" entry.
Ah Its usual practice for Tony, he will take a bite from the least spoiled side of an apple and leave the rest of the distastful mold alone, or he throws out the apple given to him completely and starts eating an orange!
I speak in analogy so he understands...
Okay, don't give me that BS Tony that you seen your Diamonds check! I have seen my ex Diamond check too, but I don't care about them. I want to know how long have you done it and how much you are making. So since you basicly admitted that you are not making money I wonder how long you have been throwing away your money and how much you have personally spent already. Any good business person who wants to sell a business should be able to provide that information to me. You don't buy and take over a business without seeing their documents before right? Or would you be so dumb Tony?
I want to see some numbers Tony.
How much do you make?
How much are you average expenses because of your so called business?
And how long have you done this already?
If I never knew "google-bombing" was against their "guidelines" i'd probably have done it too. I used to have a paintball webiste. If I had known linking to it from my other sites, or maybe even message boards Id have done it too. Then if I was told by google that some of the links weren't legit and it was against their guidelines, I'd stop doing it. But I still think that if Qixtar isn't the top result, in a search theres something wrong. Now right now there are, so I have no problem with google.
Once again Don - from what I saw, I never avoided a question - because you never asked a question!! You made a comment!
Dominikwa, i could really care what you think. i'm not throwing away my money, i've investing in myself and in my team! i've spent less than I did on 1 semester in college!! And i'm not selling my business, i'm sharing it. I'm not looking for anyone to "buy it or take over" my business, especially not you!
What do you care nika? What the hell difference does it make. If I came in here next month and said, hey, I made $900 this month after ALL expenses, what would any of you critbots say? you say, "oh, you must have scam some more people, or you musta sold some crappy products to a bunch of idiots, or you must have sold a bunch of CDs, blah blaaaah!!"
You want numbers nika - send me an email at tonyqibo@yaoo.com and I'll send you some checks from just TWO Months for over $200,000!! no tools, no downlines to payout to, just Qx $$ for over $200,000 from just 2 months!! How you like THEM #'s?
T> If I never knew "google-bombing" was against their "guidelines" i'd probably have done it too.
DI> Tony, are you pretending to be stupid or are you really that dense? Did you read any of the links I showed you? Here is a Qx kingpin talking about G-bombing. He KNOWS what it is.
http://www.webraw.com/quixtar/archives/2004/11/quixtar_admits_google_bombing.php
T> Once again Don - from what I saw, I never avoided a question - because you never asked a question!! You made a comment!
DI> Tony, you avoid ANYTHING that doesn't fit into your "Quixtar can do no wrong" worldview. I PROVED to you that Qx vandalized Wikipedia, and that it was unethical. I proved to you that Qx Googlebombed.
I rebutted all your points Tony, ONE BY ONE. You casually ignore the points I make and do not respond. HERE'S A REQUEST: Why don't you offer a rebuttal to my previous post in this entry where I take apart your argument?
If you cannot offer a rebuttal, it means that I am right, and Quixtar has behaved in a highly UNETHICAL manner. Here's ANOTHER QUESTION, then: Do these unethical actions by Quixtar bother you in any way?
"MC: we'd like to get all the facts.
Please tell us what you and your platinum make AFTER ALL EXPENSES. What is the bottom line on your schedule C?"
A platinumn makes £1,500 a month when he has the structure right, and then you got...on top £500, and £7,500 for qualifying as a platinumn.
Then if they learning and doing what we do, they break a platinumn, which we did, and that's £3,000. Plus, the royalty income of 4% for getting someone to 21% which is £400, and goes up to £600 when the person goes platinumn and keeps going up when the platinumn turnover goes up but not from their pocket but from corporation.
So, after counting bonuses, its £40,000 - £50,000.
Ok.
I kind of don't get why its kind of hard for some people here. I been in business for 3 months, I'm 15% and I got four growing legs, and last week, I gone 8 more wide.
I am really trying to figure out what's so damn hard about this business? I really do.
Wow,
Persistent, both sides. I am impressed with your dedication.
Back on topic...
A friend introduced me upline at a plan saw the circles and met the people who made $1000 a month and thought hell I'll give it a try. still trying...and still in a career on track to retire at 38 with pension. If I make more on this great, if not oh well. I'm doing it for fun not for finance. enjoy your arguments!
Yea, I remember. I was sitting at work and this young guy i didn't know real well, but knew him from the office, gave me a CD to listen to. I knew he was doing something on the side, outside of work, but didn't know much about it.
He had given me some samples, like a protein bar, and protein shake, and an energy drink. I had used or was using similar products, and the ones he gave me were actually pretty good.
I finally got around to listening to the CD, and it seemed pretty interesting. He "showed the plan" to me during a lunch break at my desk, and it seemed to make a lot of sense, but of course I was a bit skeptical.
He invited me out to a "meeting", and introduced me to some people that were dressed sharp, and looked and acted professional, etc. The guy showing the plan was very entertaining, made me laugh, seemed very likeable. The "plan" seemed like it would work.
I later found out my co-worker was at a level call "1500pv", didn't know exactly what that meant. Long story short, I ended up coming back for a 2nd and even 3rd look. I got online and read many of the "negative sites", but had enough sense to not believe what just any old joe could put up on a site. I got started, made $40 my first month, made over $200 not long after, got some corporate customers, went to a "function" saw ALL the people involved, listened to some CDs, read some books, went to another functions, got some people started, got a team developing...
But THEN the big letdown. I found out that some people didn't have the sense that I did. I had a couple quit that had actually sponsored someone, cause they "found out" it was a "pyramid"! That was the 1st that bought into the negative internet hype.
(that leg they sponsored has a solid corporate account doing $1,000's in gift & incentive albums!)
I've had others "quit", none for such a pitiful reason, most just have life get in the way, some that have "not renewed" still say they want to do it again, when they have the time and/or discipline.
Then of course, we ALL have those that say they want to take a look at it, but then 2 days later they call to cancel because something came up or they're no longer interested: aka: they let themselves be influenced by someone else's failure!
But I've seen the successes, I've seen a side that most others have not. I've seen my sponsor go from 1500 - Platinum in two and half years, and myself following right behind him. So I didn't have the luxury of saying it doesn't work... I was watching it work!
I read someone write "they were lied to and abused". I can't imagine how they were abused or what they were lied to about? I've encountered no such circumstances. Knowing human nature to not accept responsibilty, I wonder how honest these people are being with us... or even themselves. My suggestion: get ALL the facts and make up your own mind.
Posted by: MC | July 20, 2005 6:02 AM