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July 13, 2005
Do The Math
By QBlog in Miscellaneous
A member of the Quixtar BLOG Forum recently posted a thought-provoking entry that analyzes the math of the Quixtar business. I made a few edits for grammar.
» From Let's Do The Math on a Direct Group
2004 commissions paid ($373,000,000) divided by average commission ($115/month x 12) = ($1,380)
Number of active IBOs (270,290) times the success rate of Diamonds (0.0076%)
Number of Diamonds (21) divided into number of "active" IBOs (270,290)
Number of IBOs per Diamond = (13,158)
That's 13,158 people making practically nothing. Of course the Diamond is only making about $149,942 before business expenses and taxes.
That's good money, but not exactly millionaire money. Gee, I wonder where that million dollar lifestyle comes from? Oh yeah, the 13,158 people below them throwing (conservatively) $200 a month into the tool system.
$200 x 12 x 13158 = $31,579,200.
NOW THAT'S MILLIONARE MONEY!
Now, after reading that analysis tell me what's right or wrong with it. Is the number of IBOs per Diamond off? If so, what should that number be? Keep in mind, most of the numbers in this analysis come straight from Quixtar.
Comments
Wow.
Powerful stuff.
But, "the facts don't matter" to ambots.
Remember?
Maybe these computations will jar an ambot cog or two and these guys will realize what they are truly involved in....
..or maybe it will fuel the greed, er dream, to become a tools kingpin....
..either way, the $ is in the tools.
Lawdawg,
Just where do you get the Diamond success rate of .000076? How are you computing that? That isn't coming from quixtar.
Yes, michael, it is coming from Quixtar.
http://web.archive.org/web/20030613171429/http://www.myildportal.com/leadership/leadershipdocs/profilesofsuccess.pdf
Check out the copyright at the bottom of the page (page 2 is where that .000076 number was obtained).
And the reason we can trust those numbers is that they are required by law to put them in there. From the FTC's opinion in "In Re Amway":
"It is further ordered, That the aforesaid respondents and their officers, agents, employees, representatives, members, successors, and assigns, directly or indirectly, in connection with inducing or seeking to induce the participation of any person in any distribution, sales, or marketing plan, in commerce, as 'commerce' is defined in the Federal Trade Commission Act, do forthwith cease and desist from . . .
Representing, by implication, by use of hypothetical examples, or otherwise, that distributors earn or achieve from such participation any stated amount of profits, earnings, or sales in excess of the average profits, earnings, or sales of all distributors in any recent year respondents may select, unless in conjunction therewith such average profits, earnings, or sales is clearly and conspicuously disclosed, or the percent of all distributors who actually achieved such stated profits, earnings, or sales in such year is clearly and conspicuously disclosed."
Hey Lawdawg,
How come you can't count for the 35 brand new(active) Diamonds in 2004 (according to achieve) and the 30(active) WWDB diamond couples at wwdb.biz?
ALso, Where are Bill and Peggy Britt's Diamonds? How bout the 100+ diamonds that re qualified from Leonard and Esther Kims Diamondship?
oops, thats 2004, not 1004
Mikey:
Those numbers represent the total qualifying pin percentages when the data was pulled. Do you think it has suddenly increased, even though the number of distributors has stayed exactly the same?
Doubt it. In any case, if you think Quixtar's data is wrong, the burden is now on you to prove it.
Remember, diamonds fall out of qualification just as fast as the qualify. That's what that stagnancy indicates - for 35 years, there has been NO NET GROWTH in North America for Amway/Quixtar.
As far as the Kim's, their diamonds would not be in Quixtar. They would be Amway and wouldn't be in North America.
How big is your Korean downline, Mikey? Are you prospecting in Korea and Russia? Or are you just prospecting in the States?
If it's the latter than you are a fool, because the north american market for this scheme was tapped out 35 years ago.
That's not me talking. That's Quixtar's own data and the market talking.
Sorry, but those are the facts.
An obvious rebuttal would be "what about amway legs", but a rebuttal of that rebuttal would be counting the downline of those internation amway legs.
If we combine ALL the amway / quixtar ppl in the world, I don't think that picture will be any different than this one.
With all due respect to the forum poster, several of us have presented largely similar analyses. The results always have been, not suprisingly, similar...
I suspect the apologists, living their lives by the utterances of the "Pins", will take issue with the number of Diamonds. Even if one assumed that there are three times the number of registered but inactive North American IBOs (say 750K), the number of Diamonds is still trivial. I suspect that this is the number of qualified Diamonds, IBOs that Quixtar actually recogizes as current Diamonds. The motivational organizations freely admit that within ther system "once a Diamond, always a Diamond".
Before you proponents start making irrelevant and largely non-cognitive responses, lets's consider the following chain of thought.
1 - The ratio of Diamonds to non-Diamonds (0.0076%) referenced above comes directly from Quixtar, unflattering though it is. Let's assume that Quixtar actually knows how many Diamonds are in their organization.
2 - Since the various motivational organizations claim that there are hundreds (if not thousands) of Diamonds, referencing them in various "Profiles of Success"-type books, Quixtar's own numbers would indicate that many, if not most, Diamonds fall out of qualification and therefore do not even have access to the GROSS revenue (which I am not that impressed with) that a qualified Diamond would.
3 - As it appears that, even viewed in the most favorable light, there is a miniscule likelyhood that one can become Diamond and even less of a likelyhood of maintaining a Diamondship.
Given these facts, as provided by Quixtar, I have a question:
What are the networking organizations really offering people? It can't be Diamond revenue from Quixtar; it's almost impossible to obtain and even harder to maintain.
The only reasonable conclusion that can be drawn is that the bulk of the revenue has to come from participation in the distribution of support materials. There is no other conlcusion that can be made with regard to the non-retail organizations.
So why don't they tell prospects about this when they are presenting the business? Because Quixtar and regulators state that businesses structured in such a fashion are illegal.
Anyone considering this so-called "opportunity" is advised to ask for an accounting of where the support system money goes.
Are critbots actually saying again "there's only money in the tools?" Didn't I just send qblog 4 copies of checks from a Diamond. Just a Diamond, and in one month he made $93,000, and in the other month it was $124,000!! IN ONE MONTH GUYS! $124,000 in 1 month, from Quixtar - NO TOOL $! HOW are you idiots STILL saying "there's only money in the tools"!
I've shown you the proof!!
50 people last year qualified at Diamond or above levels. Thats in the Achieve magazine which is put out by Quixtar!
But go ahead keep saying there's only 17 Diamonds, you keep ignoring the fact there are overseas IBOs, not included in Quixtar #'s but that ARE a part of some Diamondship's bonuses!
And you can also inflate he tool $, I buy a $7.50 CD a week round that to $40/month, then maybe a Lit Pack here and there, Another $20, thats $60. Oh, were you counting services like 'Kate and One Domain, thats another $45. (little over $100)
Oh, and I guess of course its all PURE PROFIT right? The CDs are free, no cost for the webspace, etc. See THERE'S your fallacy: $200 x 12 x 13158 = $31,579,200.
$200 is high to begin with, Plus its not all profit!
Also, how many Diamonds have 13,000 people on Standing order? - probably not too many! 13,000 in a Diamondship is pretty high, at least "Active" people. I think Joe Markiewicz has about 8,000 people going to functions. Not ALL of them are on STO, and he's an EDC.
Alan is one of his Diamonds who has about 2500 people at functions. So saying a Diamond has 13,000 IBOs spending $200 a month is just a Gross misrepresentation of the facts!
Tony, I don't care if there is a Diamond getting a one million dollar check from Quixtar every month. What matters is that there is anywhere from 5000 to 15000 per Diamond that aren't.
And, just as there are expenses for the "tools", there are also expenses to be considered against any compensation from Quixtar. Companies with billions in gross revenue routinely fail for want of profit.
I don't care about gross revenue - I care about profit. Let's see some financial statements instead of photo-copied checks.
And I wouldn't get pissy about mis-representation, as you have absolutely no proof to the contrary. Especially when your "facts" run afoul of Quixtar's own data.
Tony, you remind me of a man trying to put out a grease fire with a feather duster. How excited you get!
Arguing against Quixtar's own reported numbers just because you don't like them or what they represent doesn't make them go away. There is no harder thing to face and overcome in life then our own dogmatic thoughts. Your going to have to open your eyes at some point and come into the light or stay with your head in the sand and get buried.
I propose a reading assignment, Plato's "Cave Analogy" in the "Republic" you like analogies right? Its very pertinent to this business. You probably will not find it in the Quixtar book club though.
That is very interesting that Tony can still find it to defend this joke of a business.
Those numbers don't mean jack Tony?
I'm sure we're all aware that diamonds flash around checks. Big deal
Come on dude, give your head a shake. A check is hardly proof, as nicely pointed out by Mike. It was sure funny when you got all mad that nobody believed you. I don't think anyone really doubted you would have a copy of a check. I'm sure we've all seen them, during various people'stenures in this business.
It's even funnier that you still think that a check alone proves that you're gonna make it in this (haha) "business"
Oh also Tony, just so you know. A CD costs well under a dollar to produce in mass, thats including labor and materials if you farm out the work.
If you own the equipment yourself, the cost drops dramatically. So hey, at least $6.50 of your weekly CD is going into your uplines pocket. Good for them!
Lets not even get into seminar admittance fees, talk about low overhead and then you can use the speech for your next CD.
Tony, I can appreciate your point of view, especially since I understand your need to make sense of what you have seen and been told.
Think about this: If you have a pie (in this case, of money), and you know that the slices are of a certain size (in this case, a mathematical average of $115 per month per active distributor) AND you know approximately how many people get slices of the pie (say about 225K active distributors)... Then you can determine the size of the pie.
If you now take the Corporations percentage of qualified diamond DD's and up, divide up that pie, you can determine about how many active IBO's are distributed among the diamondships.
Non-US, Amway business does contribute to the income of the diamond DD's, but does not improve the lot of a non-direct. In fact, non-directs do not benefit from internationally sponsored legs (to my knowledge). I have no doubt that you know more about the contributions of international legs than I, but in any event, the international business probably does not add appreciably to the number of domestic diamonds.
Bottom line, the number of non-directs per diamondship, mathematical average, shows the fundamental issue with Quixtar: the bulk of IBO's shooting for that level have not a snowball's chance in Hell of ever making it. They will spend lots of money on tools and motivation and never recoup that money through business operations.
Yep, that's what I'm doing - stealing their dream. Or IMO, more like their nightmare.
Tony: Are critbots actually saying again "there's only money in the tools?" Didn't I just send qblog 4 copies of checks from a Diamond. Just a Diamond, and in one month he made $93,000, and in the other month it was $124,000!! IN ONE MONTH GUYS! $124,000 in 1 month, from Quixtar - NO TOOL $! HOW are you idiots STILL saying "there's only money in the tools"!
Disenchanted: How much of that $93,000 and $124,000 was actually KEPT by the Diamond, and not distributed downline in the form of bonuses? Do the math. For a check of $125,000, if you were in the 25% bonus bracket, your business volume would have to be $100,000. Did he PERSONALLY do $100,000 BV, or was this the cumulative amount of BV from his group? Honestly now, which makes more sense? Come on. At at PV:BV ratio of even 1:2, there would have to be $200,000 spent. I'm quite sure he didn't do that himself. If he did, he's not too bright, because he spent $200,000 to get $125,000! So there again, he may have received a check for $125,000, but it had to be distributed down to the masses in increments according to the bonus structure. So tell us how much he KEPT and we can talk.
Was it a one time bonus for something? Show us in the compendium what is required for that amount. I'm willing to work with you here, but you have to use some common sense.
Hey Mike, I used to work for a company where the CEO DID make about $1 mil a month, and guess what - there were more than 15,000 that didn't!! Do you have a problem with that, should the company be shut down??
You guys are twisting the #'s plain as day, you take some of Quixtar #s and then make your own assumptions and come up with false data. I've already said you aren't accounting for overseas IBOs - what more proof to the contrary do you want??
And seriously what do you think the business expenses for a Diamond are? The same as any other IBO. STO, 'Kate, website, business cards, etc. Even if they fly to give a talk somewhere, they're being paid for their time, I'm sure their cut from the tickets with cover their $300 airfair!
You don't buy $1.8 million dollar home on Lake Norman, and then buy a $50,000 WakeBoat, and a $20,000 watch if you're not making $. Oh, and just so you know, he paid cash for the watch and boat, and wrote a $945,000 down payment on the house! He could of paid for it all, but they like having plenty of $ in the bank.
And there's nothing stopping me from attaining the samething. Mike Waechter is the next on Joe's team to hit Diamond. Matt Grotewald is close behind, as is Steve F, Jarrod M, Bob B, Greg F, and many more!
I believe Tony that he had some copies of checks, but were the checks dated, and even if ONE big kingpin got the big bonus, it is not a typical situation for someone to make that kind of money through quixtar. Also, the achieve magazine may list all the amway/quixtar diamonds, but like Lawdawg states, unless you're recruiting in those other countries, it's more reasonable to look at the north america numbers.
The fact still remains that the are far more people who end up with less money than they started with.
By the way, did anyone ever get proof as to whether anyone who signed up AFTER the quixtar start up, went diamond following the 2-5 year plan??
Lastly food for thought.... If there are (31)
north america qualified diamonds, that means after all these years and millions of IBO's coming and going, then only 31 are receiving the magical "residual" income??
Disenchanted IBO,
I just wanted to chime in here. Quixtar pays bonuses downline, not the IBOs. Any check that an IBO receives is net of downline bonuses - it's not like our old Amway procedure of "cutting bonus checks".
My guess is that the check is for downline volume from the diamonds non-direct volume, his 4 percent on the direct volume, and all of his other bonuses combined. Could be a one-time bonus - we just don't know.
It would be interesting to find out his annualized income, and how many people were in his organization to generate that income.
In any event, the existence of that check or any others does not change the reality that:
1- It took many non-net income earners to create that volume -and-
2- Lots and lots of money was spent in tools to create that organisation -and-
3- The existence of that check does nothing to make Tony or enyone else any business income. It does, IMO, create false hope.
(part of a response as posted in another thread):
340,000 IBOs. Subtract those who are not active. That's what that statement says on the ILD Profile document. It also states it's based on those on Direct Fulfillment. Those are what the percentages are based upon!
Subtract all lines not on Direct Fulfillment for that calendar year (2001). WORLDWIDE GROUP WAS NOT ON DIRECT FULFILLMENT. What is your number??
BECAUSE YOU MUST USE THAT NUMBER as that is the wording of the statement!:
"The following are approximate percentages of DIRECT FULFILLMENT IBOs of record in North America who achieved these levels of success in the calendaryear ending December 31, 2001."
MULTIPLY the percentages against your new number. You will come up with A LOT FEWER DIAMONDS! AND NOT ENOUGH EDCs and above that we KNOW EXISTED. SO SOMETHING IS AMISS!!!
Go back to my original response a couple of weeks ago. NO ONE refuted anything I said, In fact, Keith complimented me on it. I laid out all the possible scenarios, including the new Achievers explanation. Did you call the corp. to get a clarification on that statement, current pins vs. new pins?
OMG - I HAVE TO USE SOME SENSE! Dude, you can't even do simple math!!! $125,000 is 25% of $100,000? And then you change it to $200,000, which is STILL over 50%. What are you talking about??
I don't even know where to go next -
ok, 1st of all, he wasn't getting 25% from his groups BV - you see if you actually knew anything about the business you'd know that once you break a Platinum, you get a 4% bonus check, which at 7500pv, is around $800, now as he goes, Ruby, etc that bonus gets bigger and bigger. And yes, there are also Bonuses you get for hiting certain levels. And there are also Growth bonuses!
And finally... how much was paid out to downline bonuses?? Hmm, how bout None! You see Quixtar pays each IBO what they earned, so he kept ALL of it! His downline got Their own checks.
Also, PV is Point Value, and BV is Business Volume. For a eg. a case of XS is 7.28pv, and has a BV of 20.40 - which is what it costs a member or IBO. I don't know what you're smoking to say that $100,000BV = $200,000. but then again you think 25% of $100,000 (and $200,000) is $125,000.
And Keith, If I get business gong in Korea, yes it benefits me, plenty of IBO's have business in other countries. My sponsor has business in Puerto Rico and another close upline has business in Asia somewhere.
Oh, and I know another guy locally who has 40 Diamonds in Asia! You say "international business probably does not add appreciably to the number of domestic diamonds." Where did you think those international IBOs came from?? From business in the US!
Oh, there's my little Embot.....
I've been looking for you in other threads.
Are you gonna substanciate your greater-than-8%-claim or not?
Uhoh, looks like Analogy Anthony is back at it again......
Tonybot>I used to work for a company where the CEO DID make about $1 mil a month, and guess what - there were more than 15,000 that didn't!! Do you have a problem with that, should the company be shut down??
Well, did the CEO take draw his paycheck from the bank those of his employees?
Of course not. The employee's salary and the CEOs salary comes from the SAME place.
You really have to work on your analogies Tony. You look like a fool.
Anyway, in A/Q, the salary of the upline comes out of the pockets of the downline (overpriced product, tools, seminars, etc.)
It is the circulating cash flow described above that has launched so many investigations into A/Q as a pyramid scheme.
And even though it hasn't been found to be a pyramid, the circulating cash is very much a reality.
Keep paying your upline Tony, they love fleecing their own sheep!!!
df, why don't you post your actual e-mail address or your phone number and I can get ahold of you, as I requested before.
I wouldn't ask anyone to post a phone number on a public forum. All the new IBO recruits would have another # to put on there phone list.
Again I think the read of the day for Tony and EM should be the "Cave Analogy" by Plato, he was a Diamond in the philosophy world!
df, I got halfway thru your post and that, this has to be df, he's one critbot that can't make any valid arguments, and then I scroll down to prove myself correct!
If you think your CEO isn't making $$ off the work you do, then you are Completely clueless on how business works, and to quote Greg D. you don't have "any concept of whats going on at your job".
df> in A/Q, the salary of the upline comes out of the pockets of the downline (overpriced product, tools, seminars, etc.)
T> for the Last time that was just Quixtar money! NO TOOLS! Qx doesn't give checks for tools, its more moving volume. Call it overpriced. The stuff I buy is not. I mainly buy XS, protein bars, and vitamins. When compared to equal competition they are equal or cheaper in price.
I also occasionally buy stuff like Adidas gym shoes, Haggar slacks, Cool Water cologne and I pay the same price I would anywhere else, often cheaper, and I get a bonus back.
I also occasionally shop at places like Circuit City, BassPro, Shop.com, etc. and I pay the same price (sometimes the prices are cheaper online versus instore) plus I get a bonus back.
Yet another perspective on that 124 kilobux check: Remember that figures into that $115 "average" for active chumps. How many zeroes would it take to average that 124k down to $115? Well, 124k/115=1078, so there would have to be 1077 people making ZERO that month just to average out that one check. For every one of those big checks going to one of the statistically insignificant few who are getting them, a similar situation exists. This means that, as puny as $115 is, even that is significantly higher than what the vast majority of participants will receive in a month. $115 is the mean. Anybody have a calculation for the MEDIAN?
"If you think your CEO isn't making $$ off the work you do, then you are Completely clueless on how business works, and to quote Greg D. you don't have 'any concept of whats going on at your job'"
That isn't what he said. You're changing the subject.
PW
Tony - you're right!!! My math sucks!! Even I have to laugh at myself....but see how we "recovering" IBOs can admit when we're wrong!! That was really bad...here's what I was trying to get at -
We (WWG) was taught - 1PV = appr $2.50
So if I received a bonus check for $124,000, then my BV would have to be 4x that BASED ON A 25% bonus schedule (yup, I've been deprogrammed well and I DID forget that once a Diamond, you supposedly get 4% of your platinum's BV, or something like that). So, you're absolutely correct that I suck at math. However, in WWG we DID distribute checks to our downlines, because we were NOT on direct fulfillment. And again, I did forget that other groups did things differently. My mistake...
Thank you for pointing out my errors. I admit I was wayyyy off base with my math. So do the math for me, since I suck at it. How did the corp arrive at a bonus of $124,000? Give me several scenerios, I don't care. But give me one that tells me how he did it. Use the 4% on each of the 6 Platinums as an example (you can even use Ruby volume), then tell me how much was a growth bonus.
I'm sure since you are much better at math than I, this request will not be a problem. I've seen the checks from my ex-upline too. But I never asked. So help me out here. This is a legitimate request.
I got a 93% in freshman Algebra, I know how to come up with several scenarios, but I won't waste my time so that you can say, how I made Tony come up with blahblahblah. You can figure it out now, you've got the right #s - 1pv = @$2.50 making 100pv about $250BV. You know Ruby is 15,000pv, and don't forget some Rubies do 20,000 and 30,000pv. thats a nice 4% check. Figure he's still got Ruby side volume himself, and so he is in the 25% bracket -- you can come up with nice good scenraios.
Don't have time to explain the growth bonuses, but remember Diamond bonuses equal about $61,000 a year - just for being at that level. (Q-12 bonus is $10,000).
Hey piddlywink (PW) explain what DF meant then. Or df, clarify your statement, but this time arrange the words to make a coherent sentence.
Tony,
In the case of the example of the $1m per week CEO and how this relates to Quixtar, are we to then assume that the employees of the $1m CEO were all told by the CEO that they'd someday all be CEOs?
That's the flaw in this common Quixtar comparison. A regular J.O.B. is not a pyramid scam because despite the fact that the CEO makes more money than those underneath him, the employees aren't told nor do they all assume that they will all be CEOs one day.
Tonybot:
I didn't say that my boss isn't get paid from my efforts. HE IS !!!
And guess what, I MAKE money from HIS efforts too!!!
Holy cow, that is a mutally beneficial relationship. It's a win-win deal....
But in A/Q, you have HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS of 'average' IBOs making $115
(keyword being average--> there are people that are LOSING a lot of money) only to line the pockets of their upline.
Again, there is a BIG difference in what I am doing at my J-O-B and what you are doing in your C-U-L-T.
DF> Mutually beneficial, everyone draws a positve revenue stream in terms of salary, benefits and retirement savings plan.
Tonybot>Upline benefits onlys, everyone fights for the 'privelage' to fleece' their own people by selling overprice motivational tools
How can you even TRY to compare the 2 ?
You are so far out of this game Tony, you might as well drop your mit and go home.
Embot, you really are slow, aren't you???
Open up your eyes.......
Embot:
You made your claim, HERE.
Embot>"I've done much much better with my investments than your 8% return with doubling your money in 9 years. But thanks anyway for the suggestion"
So I would think that you would also substanciate your claim, HERE.
And, no, you aren't getting my email or phone. And, no, I am not interested in your business opportunity. And, no, I don't want to meet your for coffee @ Denny's to discuss the matter further!!!
Just stand by your claim, big boy. Prove it
The "hundreds" of thousands can barely be called plural, and the mean is $115; with those big checks being flashed (illegally), most are making substantially less. How much (the mean again) are they spending in pursuit of their paltry checks? Spending directly buying PV, burning gas to drive around inflicting this nonsense on others, plus the opportunity cost of what they could be making during the time they're wasting...
With outside retail as small a portion of total sales as it is, the bonus pool is financed almost entirely by participants. Those big checks are coming from YOU and thousands like you. The money moves up, as is the nature of pyramid scams. The big earners do so at the EXPENSE of those below them. In a corporation, you may be a peon, the CEO may make orders of magnitude more than you, but you're getting a salary, and his doesn't come out of your pocket from money you bring in from elsewhere. The comparison is invalid.
Bystander, thanks for validating the invalidity of Tony's point.
As if that made any sense at all....
Should we just call Tony an "invalid" ???
Subtantiate.
From the root word shared with substance.
Qualities that I find missing in the pro-Quix arguments, even ones that I compliment for their tone and thoughtfulness.
It's not really the small pins' fault - the numbers and data that they are fed are like shifting sands in the desert.
They must rely on appearances, hype and hope... No real analysis can occur until the real numbers are known. All of them. Until then, all claims are conjecture.
Good luck
Hey Tony,
I'm not into the name calling thing. And I do believe that there are a few who might make a big income from amway/quixtar without tools money. However, as many pointed out, a check may not really be a good indicator of this diamond's income. What would be the true indicator would be a copy of his schedule C tax return. That would show his NET profit after expenses.
When I was a 4000 pin, my bonus check was over $1000 but after the downline bonuses went out, I had less than $1000 left and when I was through buying extra tapes and WWDB taught that you must buy the standing orders for IBO's who quit ( I had a few of these), plus extra function tickets, I was still at a net loss from business expenses.
And as for the CEO of a company, yes they make more than the employees and their income comes through their employees efforts. No argument there. However, in quixtar, the diamond makes the majority of their income (directly or indirectly) from their downline. And unless the diamond is working directly with all the downline, he is gaining from their efforts and not giving anything in return. Also, the CEO and employees make money from profits, from customers. This way everyone gets a net profit (salary) whereas the diamond and an emeral may make money while all the lesser pins make nothing or suffer losses.
So can you get a schedule C from one of the kingpins and send it to Qblog??
WEll anyway, I wanted to comment in and say I agree with the scam part and must say "tony", I don't know if you know what your talking about..........but lets throw this in for the mix
Quixtar, says that in the first four years it was in business, it has generated 3.1 billion(don't know if this is gross)..........Fine
so lets just say about 775 million per year.........fine(this number doesn't matter much, since it just a esimate of my own wanting of knowledge........so really........ignore it or should u!?....maybe it means more than you think)
You got 340,000 workers, 224,400 work including 31 are higher ups(kinda odd huh.....you think they be more higher up people)
so if everyone got paid..........with me not know the point system and crap.......just knowing tha annual pay.........of 1380 dollars annual shit(gross income...comes from the big boys themselves)
you get 319 million gross income................now that just one year..............so for four year, you got 1.2 million gross income...............okay
Ooo look you have 1.2 billion left while in the four years...........but there are a couple of problem with the math
One, UNknown number of diamonds and above postions..........I have counted the amount of possible diamonds and above postions with the percent given by quixtar..(.0076 percent for diamand balh blah blah)..............Now we all know that quixtar is saying that it has alot of diamonds.............like into the hundreds maybe
I only counted 17 with the percents.........so that would mean, total of 17 people have to be paid 2 mil
NOw tony, you are saying that they are alot of diamonds.............K
If there were even 100 diamonds.....you need to pay them 14 million...............that a big increase in money to pay people
Now! I have no idea about the higher postions and how many are really "higher uppers" besides the percent esitmate of people that quixtar gives
how much do these people actually spend to get to this gross income?......like what do they do really...............how much money must be put in to the business before anything is gain
And lets face it.............149,849 for diamond is gross income..............only profits accounted for..........nothing about business cost, nor if the business is going around...............quixtar says low risk..............but what business doesn't have risk!?
OKay now in further a doo doo
This company goal is to make money and how are they going to do it
Well of course to get people hired and work below you...........okay forget about points now...............There isn't enough people in United states to spend money into this site nor become IBO to get you to reach this high point of great living...........
I bet our numbers from the gross income in a 4 year interval is a bit off.......... just for the fact of how many people were probably hired inbetween.................and what about the inactive IBO's?...............do they just sit on their lazy asses and get paid?................what were the profits?................how many people actually got to the top........I know I repeating something........but questions that don't have answers.
They don't talk about profits on there site, or how much there increasing ever month nor nothing.........thats why it the begining I told you to ignore my esitmate of the 4 years of annual earning from their "in 4 years we made 3.1 or 3.2 billion".........whats their profit?...........is the company rising or falling!?
Now if the company continues to grow, how are they going to pay for all these people in the business, and for the potential so called diamonds!?.................How many people do you think are going to buy shit on this online site!?...............The volume isn't going to increase much........how many people do you think 224,400 are going to reach.......plus not to mention the people below them are probably their next door neighboor or friends
Is quixtar even regulating their supply and demand....basic rule of eco...........you know you have to stop hiring people eventually................You start to lose profit....................I work for pathmark.....and there not hiring people like crazy unless they have money to do so.........they run off a budjet of how many people they can hire at once
Well I'm going to end it here.....I blabbed enough =P
O yea, I not great with grammar nor spelling
=P
I think everyone is making the mistake of thinking Tony has a brain for facts and business sense.
Tony, you're going to feel stupid about this when it hits you.
I hope you still live with your parents, that way at least you won't be affecting yourself too adversely.
"Mr. Shag, what you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone on this blog is now dumber for having read it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul."
Shag> Well I'm going to end it here.....I blabbed enough =P
I wish you had said that near the top right after "WEll anyway,"
Shag> O yea, I not great with grammar nor spelling
UNDERSTATEMENT OF THE CENTURY.
df, dawson, ck, - how painful was it reading that.
"Thats all I have to say about that".
Ouch.
*cough*
OKay mister smartie pants
Tell me what I'm wrong about?
You just told me things, like that I'm dumb founded son of a bitch
OKay then Plz tell me, what I'm missing
Come mister Fact boy, Lets hear it!?
I really must be missing the big light founded picture.....Lets hear it!
ENLIGHTMENT O MIGHTY GOD!
Tell me what part of logical reasoning is wrong???????
take parts of my so called non sense, and agrue it jackass
Just saying that someone is wrong isn't good enough, Prove me wrong!
Lets see it, I"m waiting
Now you feel how other ppl feel Tony Pony ;););)
I loved it. Seriously, it wasn't as bad as compared to some other peeps.
Well to be honset, I don't want to get on the bad side of anyone........even tony.................I don't wish to bad mouth you either...........so actually no hard feelings really, since I have to deal with my friends in the business already......their bad enough.
Though, I would like to argue this topic further. I want to see what both sides, have to say.........but honsetly if you can't argue your point with some simple logic or knowledge or facts then your arguement is lost.
So lets have a clean fight =P
Ha, clean fight with IBOs and Alticor sent fakees. That's a good one.
Hey Tony,
I'm not into the name calling thing. And I do believe that there are a few who might make a big income from amway/quixtar without tools money. However, as many pointed out, a check may not really be a good indicator of this diamond's income. What would be the true indicator would be a copy of his schedule C tax return. That would show his NET profit after expenses.
When I was a 4000 pin, my bonus check was over $1000 but after the downline bonuses went out, I had less than $1000 left and when I was through buying extra tapes and WWDB taught that you must buy the standing orders for IBO's who quit ( I had a few of these), plus extra function tickets, I was still at a net loss from business expenses.
And as for the CEO of a company, yes they make more than the employees and their income comes through their employees efforts. No argument there. However, in quixtar, the diamond makes the majority of their income (directly or indirectly) from their downline. And unless the diamond is working directly with all the downline, he is gaining from their efforts and not giving anything in return. Also, the CEO and employees make money from profits, from customers. This way everyone gets a net profit (salary) whereas the diamond and an emeral may make money while all the lesser pins make nothing or suffer losses.
So Tony, can you get a schedule C from one of the kingpins and send it to Qblog??
The information below is derived from:
http://web.archive.org/web/20030613171429/http://www.myildportal.com/leadership/leadershipdocs/profilesofsuccess.pdf
"Average Annual Income for IBOs in North America*".....
"The following are approximate percentages of Direct Fulfillment IBOs of record in North America who achieved these levels of success in the calendar year ending December 31, 2001. Platinum .4242%, Founders Platinum
.2704%, Q-12 Qualifiers .1317%, Emeralds .0458%, Founders Emeralds
.0186%, Diamonds .0076%, Founders Diamonds .0018%, EDC & Up .0042%,
Founders Executive & up .0007%."
"* Approximately 66% of all IBOs of record were found to be active*"
Can anyone tell me the total number of IBOs we are talking about here in the percentages?
(number of active, DIRECT FULFILLMENT IBOs as it clearly states.)
Can you give me the total number of EDCs based on that number?
(HINT: WWG was not on Direct Fulfillment as well as other active IBOs)
Can you easily name more than six or seven EDCs you would arrive at using this formula?
df, you substantiated NOTHING here with YOUR claims of lousy returns. If you wish to know more you can get ahold of me. But you would have to give me a way to contact you-- your phone number, email, etc. (no, you will not be shown a business plan).
And yes, my returns would blow yours away any day.
What are you afraid of?
hey lawdawg,
I am not disputing quixtar's numbers, I am disputing YOUR numbers/calculations.
All these "facts" are just speculations and are again skewing the data to make it look like quixtar has zero growth. You asked for how many NEW diamonds there were in quixtar- not active, not ones that dropped out. We answered, yet you continually neglect to acknowledge a response that several people have given you.
Also, there isn't any solid evidence where the bonus pool of 373 million came from. The jury is still out on that one. Was it from straight FAA bonuses, or was it a combination of BV/FAA bonuses? I will agree with you that the 373 million seems amazingly low considering what revenue they brought in.
Also, am I wrong or can Diamonds have downline in both Quixtar North America, and Amway/rest of the world at the same time?
Lawdaug. are you willing to call Dick Davis at Worldwide and have the claim of 20 plus diamonds in WWG substantiated or are you to just content with your erroneous formulations? (After all you said there were only 31 diamonds in all of Quixtar.)
Which is it?
Also, did you attempt to contact Quixtar legal department for clarification of the figures for numbers of IBOs and percentages of achievement?
Did you?
Then after we get these questions answered we can start talking about the Quixtar only diamonds.
Yes folks, we are going to talk about that.
Well that according to quixtar those numbers. I'll explain
They give a percent out of max ibos currently active, only a couple of diamond are possible. Though that 31 diamonds, isn't just 31 diamond, it's also the people above diamond. They give a percent of each postion, and the chance of so many people making it as that postion.
The percent were given by quixtar. We just did the math. Though quixtar doesn't state anywhere, on it's website on how many of each postion is currently held.....nor it the amount of acutally people who are ibos.
The number of ibos that currently there, is a number from some other site, I forgot the name at this current moment, but I didn't find myself on the quixtar site. Though It really baffles me that quixtar wouldn't tell other people about how many people are currently enrolled in quixtar.
The only thing quixtar tell you is
one, the monthly gross income for all ibos.....which can be easily converted to yearly......also how many ibos are active.
plus the percent, the chance of people becoming any class or postion, or w/e you call it.
What I'm missing is maybe the correct number of ibos currently there, how many in each postion.
But the biggie is
Is this company making any profit!?
The company does tell you about the first 4 years for example.....it has made I think 3.2 billion dollars. Though it tells you no infomation about the annual profits.
You is this year a bad year?....was last year better for them?...........telling someone I have 5 million dollars over the course of 10 years isn't alot of money really. It just means you saved it alot of it. Not spending it, except in a business, your almost always excepted to spend.
O yea, they don't even say if the 3.2 billion is gross or revenue.
So I'm just explain where people might've gotten their infomation, but they mostly gotten from quixtar them selfs, on it's own website.
But I have question?
Do you have to pay to go to the semiars? or pay to even join this company?
Sry not fully informed into this company, Just trying to learn what I can
Wow that was a bad post...................lol..................this is what happens when you have lack of sleep.........and your eye lids weight like anvils.......well we can agrue this more tomm in my time =p
Have fun and Play Safe!
Tony, Michael, Emminem,
We could put to rest a lot of these debates. Why don't you guys send a copy of your schedule C's to Qblog. That way you can prove that you are profitable. If you are, then maybe we can discuss it. If you aren't profiting, maybe you should rethink your involvement in this business.
And you may give us the programmed answer that it's none of your business. That's what my upline told me when he asked. Anyways a friend of mine just sold two of his conventional businesses for about half a million (UPS stores). Guess what? Before he sold he had to provide copies of his tax return as prrof that his business was viable and profitable.
Keith Sr.>Subtantiate.
You forgot your 's' their Keith.
Maybe you shouldn't try this "pis_ing" contest. You might just find yourself peeing into the wind....
Embot>If you wish to know more you can get ahold of me.
DF>Uh, I already am, by calling you out, RIGHT HERE.
Embot>But you would have to give me a way to contact you-- your phone number, email, etc.
DF>Uh, you already ARE contacting me, in this thread, remember ???
Embot>And yes, my returns would blow yours away any day.
DF>Uh, okay...care to PROVE that ???
Embot>What are you afraid of?
DF>Uh, nothin I guess. I claimed modest returns by safely investing my money.
There isn't any fear here -- in fact, I am quite confident that I will either TRIPLE or QUADRUPLE my current assets in the next 24 years. Again, it is all in the 8-12% return rate that I can safely expect.
And although the triple vs quadruple forecast is a big variance, it really comes down to whether or not my toy boat(s) will sleep 10 or 20 people and whether or not my vacation home(s) will back to water or woods.
Needless to say, things are pretty comfy over here.
So, Embot, I ask you, "what are you afraid of" ???
What have you invested in that is yeilding a consistent, average return above 8-12% ?
Come on big boy, put your cards on the table.
I have to give Tonybot credit for quoting Old School.
I figured he's a 'Dean Pritchard' kind of guy.
But, Tonybot, we gotta get back to business; or in your case, get back to your
"fake business"
Tell me where I am wrong here (though I doubt you can):
DF>I didn't say that my boss isn't get paid from my efforts. HE IS !!!
And guess what, I MAKE money from HIS efforts too!!!
Holy cow, that is a mutally beneficial relationship. It's a win-win deal....
But in A/Q, you have HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS of 'average' IBOs making $115
(keyword being average--> there are people that are LOSING a lot of money) only to line the pockets of their upline.
Again, there is a BIG difference in what I am doing at my J-O-B and what you are doing in your C-U-L-T.
DF> Mutually beneficial, everyone draws a positve revenue stream in terms of salary, benefits and retirement savings plan.
Tonybot>Upline benefits onlys, everyone fights for the 'privelage' to fleece' their own people by selling overprice motivational tools
How can you even TRY to compare the 2 ?
Ouch.
Sorry Tonybot, you had a quick little moment of coolness with the Old School thing, but now it is time to get back to kicking your arse all over these threads!
DF, I am duly and appropriately whipped.
Not really a pissing contest for me... And I thought that I was "on your side" :-)
I will survive, prosper, and go on to VICTORY!!! HaHaHaHa!!!!!!!! Ain't it GREAT!!!! YEEEEEHAAAAAAAA!
Oops, sonding like Dean just a little too much...
I hope that you guys have fun, I'm taking off for Lake Powell for a couple of weeks, hang on the houseboat, ride the Sea Doos... No computer, or cell phone... Just friends, fireworks and FUN!
Love you all... In a manly way, of course ;-)
DF, u r like Jim Reed. You got more issues with critics than IBOs.....
Imran, you my friend are an idiot.
I was chastising Keith Sr., and HE got the joke. Why didn't you?
Hit your ESL books and get back with us in a few years....
Let us not fight amongst ourselves, we have Tony to rally against. He makes it sooo easy to dislike him. Tony Sheep, where are you? Getting Fleeced by your sponsor and upline?
Well, Tony, since you asked, I would have to say that the multiple ".......", as if we're reading some sort of stream of consciousness, is even more annoying than reading posts with multiple question marks at the end of every interrogatory and exclamation points at the end of every statement.
If there is any victory in that, then I suppose congratulations are in order!
DF, u r very much like Bill Britt. He was famous of bigoted statements.
What I want to know from the Quixtar proponents, in clear and concise terms, is why prospects shouldn't use data published by Quixtar itself. I simply do not not understand how anyone can argue against the SA4400 and Profiles of Sucess, both publsihed by Quixtar.
Imran, sorry, your comment was lost on me. See, I was never stupid enough to sign up for that crap, so I have no idea who Bill Britt was.
And keep working on that ESL...
"He was famous of bigoted statements"
How about...
"He was famous FOR HIS bigoted statments"
See, I care. I'm here to help!
And may God bless you for caring, DF.
Keith Sr., have a great long weekend.
I am glad we got that all out of the way.
Now, Tonybot and Embot have some 'splaining to do.....
TonyBot and Embot are on the verge of going the way of Jen-Bot, Chris-Bot, and the DoDo bird. HmmmmDo-Do bird eh?
Anyhoo, I am still trying to figure out why they are arguing about the numbers Quixtar has provided. Perhaps they should be discussing the numbers with Quixtar, not us.
TonyBot-"Hi Quixtar, could you change your numbers please? I am getting skewered online because of YOUR numbers"
Quixtar-"Oh this is Tony? Sure, no problem. We'll stop the printing of the new materials right now and revise them, just for you"
Have a great day, you fricking winners. Michael can maybe write an article about why Quixtarians should shut up and take their medicine when hooped.
Before you even say it Michael, I will read your blog. It gives great insight into the mind of a positive thinking madman, and I have shared many a laugh with friends over your supposed leadership posts.
Hey df, you need to edit better - you said "have a great long weekend"
Well, thanks - but I'm going for almost two weeks!
Oh well, I guess that's just a heckuva looooong long weekend.
Seriously, though- thanks. You're alright in my book.
Thanks DF, you are getting famous FOR YOUR bigoted comments ;)
In my neighbor hood, ppl who speak perfect English without making any grammatical mistake are considered gay ;) Seriously! Visit Toronto sometimes.
rocket, actually I expected nothing more from a dolt like yourself.
Imran-->oh, you're Canadian, that says a lot already !!!
Nice bigoted stereotype with the English/gay thing too.....hypocrite!
I've been to Toronto numerous times.
I've always had a great time, probably because I never ran into you.
Most Canadians (although they are somewhat insecure because their culture is just a bad knock-off copy of American culture) are pretty nice folks.
You should be happy that your Maple Leafs are playing hockey this year. Cheer up, don't be so angry......
Go grad your took and your Molson two-for and get outtahere!
Mike,
The Profiles Of Success is NOT published by Quixtar. In fact, the publication and distribution of books like the Profiles Of Success is against Quixtar's rules.
Read your compendium.
PW
Yes, when I was in WWDB, they told us not to use profiles of success to "prospect" new recruits. I guess it was because it depicted wealth that was accrued by non amway money (income from tapes and seminars).
Hey Tony or Mike, got a copy of the schedule C yet? That's the real indicator of an IBO's income.
Now DF, careful now with the anti-Canadian comments, I thought we were kindred spirits!
I am also finding a hard time where you made a bigot comment. Does ESL mean English Speaking Language? How is that a bigot remark?
C'mon Imran dude. I think you need to stop throwing around racism and bigot remarks when someone shakes your tree a bit. Your English isn't perfect, so what? Your English is Waaaayyyy better than I could speak your first language. Grain of salt man, it's OK! Pobody's Nerfect!
Embot, I don't know too much about dolts, but apparantly you're an expert in the field and seem to know everything there is to know about dolts, so I'll take your word for it, I am a dolt.(Why does that sound like something Reggie would say to Archie....dolt? chee)
But at least I'm not in AmQuix. Go Diamond!!! Be a hero!!! Live the dream!!!!
You gottta have a dddrrrreeeeaaaammmmm!
Rocket, Dawson, I'm bored from Tony.
Rocket> I am also finding a hard time where you made a bigot comment.
Imran> Did you ever read him ;) ESL = English as a Secondary Language. But I didn't call him bigot because of that. I've been reading him for a while now and this is my opinion about him. Who else I’ve called racist?
I can write English alright if I take my time. On top of that, I can speak / read / write 3 more languages. I don't think a lot of ppl around here write perfect English ;)
DF>I’ve always had a great time, probably because I never ran into you.
Imran> You’re damn right......
When i posted these numbers, I really didn't think that each diamond is making $30+ million. I just wanted to show how disportionate the income really is. I'm sure a Diamonds cut is more like $1 million. Uplines have to take their share. Downline gets a very little bit. GOGS is low seeing how the big dogs own their own production facilities. (cut out the middle man :)
rocket you are a dolt which is a blockhead and a dullard. So wear the title proudly. After all you cannot comprehend simple statements. Nor can you understand there is no problem with Quixtar's numbers, only people who misconstrue information. Obviously you could not answer my question I asked in my post above. It's just way above your head. Nor does it seem like any of your cohorts can either.
Funny how you all are trying to change the subject. HA and nobody seems to want to talk about Quixtar only diamonds, now that I'VE brought it up. We'll save that discussion for next week. Hate to hand you guys two major defeats in one week.
Df you are going to wait 24....24?!?!? YEARS?! to triple your money? Heck I did that last year alone. Too bad you won't find out, unless you contact me privately with your name, address and phone number, and then I'll tell you.
M&M why don't YOU phone Mr. Davis since you're the ne with the numbers problem.
OK, so how many North American Quixtar only diamonds are there? You going to finally provide an answer? That's the only response I need, just the number of North American Quixtar only diamonds. Can you give it? You are obviously way higher than me on the intellectual plane.
I can triple my money if I'm a fully plugged in IBO as well, by collecting 7 bottles laying in the ditch off any given interstate or the Trans Canada Highway.
So, no more changing the subject. How many North American Quixtar only diamonds in the past 5 years?
And you may want to field DF's question as well before you paddle off to another function. He has tried hard not to change the subject, YOU keep changing it.
Later, winner.
I am not the one performing spurious research, if you can even call it research.
I don't make claims to number of diamonds (phony claims at that due to misconstrued research). I, in fact, know and I have no need to obtain info I already know from Dick. From apparently some people do need that and NEVER MADE ANY ATTEMPTS ANYWHERE to get any information of the sort (and neither from the corporation's legal department either). You and I both know there are over 6-10 EDCs in all of Quixtar. But it seems somebody's theory falls apart if there happens to be more.
rocket I have one question to ask you and I would appreciate the courtesy of a reply (hey, anyone else feel free to answer also!):
Based on the legal statements on the ILD pdf doc., are any WORLDWIDE diamonds included in figuring the supposed totals (from the percentages given)? Why or why not?
Oh, and while were at it, here's the bonus question. Since there are 20 plus diamonds in WWG (as there were at least that many in 2001), how many others are there in ALL OF QUIXTAR outside of WWG? 11? Remember to count BWW, Dex, ILD, etc. You don't know, do you? But feel free to throw numbers around anyway. And keep repeating it over and over like a parrot. Oh, by the way, since the ILD document is also legal, all those diamonds represented on that pdf MUST also be included in your total.
Here's the second bonus question: Since you are convinced there are no more than 10 EDCs in ALL OF QUIXTAR (based on that spurious research) should we start naming them? Dexter, Britt, Paul Miller, Ron Puryear, Greg Duncan, Brad Duncan, Brad Wolgamott, Theron Nelson, Terry Felber, Bill Hawkins, Jimmy Head...... Oh wait that's 11 already! And I am sure some from the other lines would like to pipe in here and name some of there's. Plenty more for sure.
Maybe you should start thinking about what the meaning of the word "achieve" is.....
No, we'll start talking about North America Quixtar only diamonds next week. Too many people are heading out of town and I am sure you'd love there being a sparse readership if you fear what's to come your way. But remind me will ya? The fact that you guys keep harping on it like it's one of the crown jewels of your tenets of anti-quixtarism.
As for df, if he is curious he can certainly contact me. After all, he never told me his investments--what they are. But I have done way, way better and I assure you it's a considerable sum.
Why would Df even give any personal infomation to you in the first place, he doesn't want a stalker =P (just joking)
The numbers about quixtar are from their database (well not all the numbers)
the percents given by quixtar, is the approx number of new diamonds(they give all the percents for each postion) that came into quixtar of some month in 2002, not the total. (it's like .0079 percent for diamonds)But it's staggering to see that out of so many people, only 17 made it to diamond
Now I made some calculations.
224400 people are active in IBO ( I got this number from a website who was praising quixtar. It's said quixtar had 300,000 plus IBos or something of the sort....I don't remember the exact number but 66 % of that number of ibos gave 224400 to be active ibos)
so 224400 people make the average gross of 115 dollars a month(gross amount), which equal to be around 25 mil a month. 309 million a year.....these values are assumed to be accounted as gross values.....mean before taxes and expensives are ever taken into account.
average of ibos makes 115 month(from quixtar). Just from this something is seemingly very wrong.
So a big number of people make no more 1000 dollars at most a month. This is a very very rough esitmate of the 1000 dollars a month, since it is a average, so the better average who be for a higher number of peopel be like 1000 or 10000.
NOw, you have to think, the company says we have people who are making millions upon millions as income but yet the average of everyone is 115 a month, 1390 dollars per year.......A lot of people, I don't think are doing to well at all.
OKay lets back away from that for a bit.
Company says there are alot of diamonds, never says how many diamonds, but theres a lot of them. (if someone has a rough esimate of that number of people who are diamonds and of postions above diamond, I would like to know =P, it would help out with the numbers and calculations)
A diamond makes a average income of 148,000.*again according to quixtar)
17 diamonds = 2 mil about per year,
100 dimaonds = 14 mil per year
500 diamonds = 74 mil per year
1000 diamonds= 140 mil per year
plus or minus the amound for lets say 20-10 percent
My question is how many are alot of diamonds. since if there are 1000 diamonds. the average for everyone else who are ibos is about 309 million(including everyone according to quixtar, eveyone makes a approx monthly income). then 1000 diamonds take up about 2 and one fifths of the 309 million. O yea this yearly income, gross too.
So basically, knowing how many diamonds there are, is important, it helps ease the calculation instead of esitmates.
NOw
The company says it has made 3.1 billion in first four years
though, we know 309 million a year (gross) is what every ibo must recieve. Now for 4 years isn't very constant, for each year could be different of course. though quixtar doesn't explain profit nor none of that crap to us.
but 1.2 billion is what you get for four years. plus or minus .2 billion ( could be more, could be less)
This is amount quixtar has to pay it's workers. Though it's all in gross which is quite annoying
I want to hear some revenues for crying out loud. How much money did these workers have to put in, inorder to get these gross amounts?
Gross is nice to look at.....but in reality it means shit.......If my gross income was 1000 dollars.....but my expenses of business was 999 dollars.....well my net pay is only 1 buck........not very appealing is it?
OKay
O yea.....the company made 3.1 billion in four years. Doesn't quite say if it's revenue or gross.....Unknown value in any case
another scary though. since the company only has 1.9 billion left, very esitmating here. (3.1 billion - 1.2 billion)....this all after four years
so the 1.2 billion in one year is about 300 mil for one year.
That seems quite small for 224400 people to make including when got a lot of people make well above 1 mil according to the big boys. Or even if alot of them where making above 100k even.
400 people who make 100 k = is 40 mil
you only need 3000 people to make 100k, to equal = 300 milllion
but yet 224400 in quixtar cases only make 300 mil
The number of quixtar don't add up really.
I also found out how much it takes to start this business. My 2 friends have paid 250 to start.
Okay so, 224400 active Ibos times 250 dollars. thats 56 mil. though I would believe even the inactive people had to pay this. so 350,000 I think was the number but lets try it anyway. 87 mil.
Nice profit, woudln't you think?
I wonder who gets it and what they do with it
Also Not to mention that quixtar encourages you to the buys the "tool of the trade". so lets say 50 dollars a month. 600 year. 134 million from everyone (224400 people, ibos).
very nice amount, wonder who gets it and what do they do with it. we can only assume the best and worst cases. Though with these numbers and esitmates, I can assume something isn't right about the quixtar way of doing business.
Did I mention the average ibo only makes 115 a month!?
so for the first 2 and somehwat of a month. THey make no profit. They also pay for the books and crap every month.
though this can be very abstract. Cause then we have to account for if the person has any brains to not spend money when he doesn't have any money or not making much of a profit at all.
Now I got one thing to say
pyramid scheme
whose regulating how many people coming into this business. You got to remember, the more people means, the more money you must pay them. You can only make so much profit by selling so much. There is a point where, if you have to many employees, then you will start to overcome the profits you make.
Not to mention if the people being hired as "saleman" to create volume are in the same geological area. This is very ineffienct.Then not to mention you have to pay this people for the work they do.
Also these points(bv and Pv). It's like another currency. The points give the chance of people below you in this job, a chance to make money. It like communism almost. and we all know that communism didn't work. Plus not to mention no one ever hit communism. they hit socialism, not communism.
What happen when the point go over what there really worth. You know when the company goes out of business. these point mean jack shit. Also that the point increase the amount that the each worker much get.
So 1.2 billion for all 224400 per year. Might be well way off it's target. Not to mention, your missing how many postion of each there are.
All in all, infomation is missing. Though current infomation makes the whole thing look strange and abstract.
Okay I'm done, Your turn quixar boys =P
O yes and one more thing......This infomation ia base off and esitmates including, only towards the american quixtar.....nothing towards the outer rim. Since I want to know what american profits are, not the international quiztax.
Embot>As for df, if he is curious he can certainly contact me.
DF> YES I DID! I contacted you on this thread
Embot>After all, he never told me his investments--what they are.
DF> YES I DID! I invest in the stock market
I am not going to endorse any funds or individual stocks here. But I am have a conservative mix that consistently returns 8-12% / year.
Embot>But I have done way, way better and I assure you it's a considerable sum.
DF>Great Embot, please enlighten us all. What are you doing that is so great??? Pleeze, pleeze, pretty pleeze with sugar on top...tell the group where you are making your bucks.
We all know that it isn't AmQuix, so what could it be ???
Rocket,
I appreciate you reading my blog. I hope you learn something from it. If it provides an entertainment value for you thats good too! Either way, you are providing me with valuable traffic!
My blogshares acct just took in a healthy $46k! Too bad I cant cash that in for real..
joecool18, nice try at baiting IBO's. Its not going to happen and you know it- its just a pathetic attempt for a critic to drag and IBO into this little arguement you got going with Tony and Em. If I were to show you my schedule C I would require you to sign an affidavit form an attorney, and require you to sign up as an IBO. Since I know neither of those things will happen you are right, this schedule C debate is over. Next time you try and bait an IBO, try and use a little wit and make it interesting. That bait could be spotted a mile away, nice try!!
So Michael, this whole business based on waving checks, cars and boats in front of downline is fine, some one asking a proof is out of line?
Mikebot:
Who's to day that joecool won't work with your attorney and sign up as an IBO.
How much do you charge to become an IBO
anyway; I've heard of charges anywhere from $47-$250.
Which is odd that a "franchise" doesn't have a consistent fee schedule.....
....but I digress......
Imagine what old joecool would do if he actually SAW your Schedule C.
Would he:
a) Laugh at the red ink and supposed business expense(s)
b) Cry because you are a hapless idiot, slowly losing money like a lamb being led to slaughter
c) Both a & b
The answer is c - you're a freak of the industry (that's a little 'digital underground' reference for your whack-ass this Friday)
Imran,
I don't waive checks, sorry. That was Tony.
DF,
You are right, joecool would think my schedule C is laughable. I am not a millionaire- nor do I want to be. Saying my schedule C is operating in the red is an assumption. K so I am not making a gazillion dollars or even $10,000 per month. So what? That doesn't mean I am not profitable. Profitablity means different things to different people. Therefore I would think Joecool WOULD think my Schedule C is laughable.
Imran,
Would you rather have an IBO waiving the profiles of success around or would you have someone show you the business in an honest and ethicle manner that worked?
Also, the schedule C question has been and always will be a bait for the critics. You guys could care less about an IBO's actual bottom line. IF an IBO showed you his schedule C what would that do for you? Answer, it would only provide you with more ammunition to ridicule and insult an IBO, possibly scaring him out of the business.
Like david asked before, if an IBO became diamond being honest and ethical, would you praise that IBO or would you find other things to ridicule and insult his business? Most of you answered the latter.
Well Mikey, I think we all know that there is no such thing as an honest and ethical diamond, since you don't really get to diamond without being on the system.
Making your point quite lame.
I'll sign an affadavit from an attorney to see a schedule C. What would the affadavit say?
If yours, or any other IBO shows me that your (ha ha) business is profitable without tool money, I'll sign up. Seriously.
But we all know I won't be signing up, simply because none of the above will
A) Ever be done by any IBO
B) Prove this (ha ha) "business" to be a worthwhile endeavor
Those are the facts. Sorry, don't mean to steal your dream.
Mike,
I was a 4000 pin in the business. At that level, my bonus check (gross) was over $1000 a month. That's what I sold people
when I showed the plan. I used that as the "bait" to get people interested. But behind the scenes, I was still losing money and my bank account shrank until I was starting to go into debt. This was due to being CORE and following the "plan".
So unless you're a bigger pin such as emerald, I bet your schedule C shows a loss. Only you know the answer to that but if I'm right, you really need to rethink your position in the business.
Now you may wonder how I could spend more than $1000 or so each month. Let me break it down.
I bought 7 tapes per week as I was taught, plus 3 standing orders (some downline quit) That's 10 tapes per week.
$60 x 4 = $240.
Open meetings plus one per month regional function $ $30
Quarterly major function $900 ($300/month) I live in Hawaii so I needed airfare and hotel.
Gas $50/month
As a single, I was expected to move 300 PV. I usually had to buy about 100 PV each month which costs about $250.
And then there are other incidentals involved with business, which were nominal costs.
Hey Mike, got that schedule C?
joecool>So unless you're a bigger pin such as emerald, I bet your schedule C shows a loss. Only you know the answer to that but if I'm right, you really need to rethink your position in the business.
mikebot>You are right, joecool would think my schedule C is laughable. I am not a millionaire- nor do I want to be. Saying my schedule C is operating in the red is an assumption. K so I am not making a gazillion dollars or even $10,000 per month. So what? That doesn't mean I am not profitable. Profitablity means different things to different people.
Mikebot, don't worry, you ARE LAUGHABLE -- not just to joecool, but to ALL of us.
We are all laughing at you.
On a Schedule C, there is only ONE definition of profitable.
And my EDUCATED GUESS (per your behavior and the blurb from joecool above) is that you DO NOT meet that definition of profitable.
It's a pretty good guess isn't it ???
Isn't it !!!!
Think about it -- why did you get involved in a profit-oriented operation in the first place?
If you wanted to do non-profit work, you could be doing other non-prof. projects that dosn't require the purchase of tapes, seminar tickets, nor overpriced energy drinks. (P.S. We all know that you didn't do it for the drink recipes!)
Mark this day down, today is the day that your pro-Q argument officially BROKE down.
Maybe you can build from this moment on?
Good luck Mikebot. You'll need a lot of it.
Face it, you argument has Most of it
Embot:
With Mikebot officially busted, I am ready for you!
Where is your big bad business plan that yields the huge $$$ you claim ???
I'm here waiting Embot, all you gotta do is show up with an iron-clad plan....
HAHA! df, how dumb do you have to be when an IBO can quote movies better than you? That wasn't Old School, Einstein, it was Billy Madison! (Gee I guess some of these IBO types aren't little tape-listening hermit crabs, some actually seem to be balanced) But you ARE the stereotyping kind of guy! (oh, and I only resorted to calling him names 'cause... its df!)
Oh, so Joe18, all its gonna take is a Schedule C showing profit, for you to think the business is OK. Well just because I Personally can't show you big profit on my schedule C, doesn't mean my sponsor, or some of my upline and crossline couldn't show you profit on Their schedule C!
You had some rediculous expenses. Most 4000PVers, aren't flying from Hawaii to functions, their driving, so instead of a function costing $900! they cost $90!! (+$35 for hotel)
And thats up to YOU if you wanna buy the STO for people who quit, I hope you didn't keep ordering for them! And it was also YOUR decision to buy 7 tapes a week! Thats kinda nuts unless you've got the money, which you're saying you didn't! I get 1 CD a week, maybe some starter tools here and there. And no one's ever told me to do the things you were supposedly told. I guess different teams DO run things differently!
Also, it doesn't take the tools system to go Diamond, like someone said above! The tools would definitely help! but its not a Requirement to go Diamond! It takes 6 Platinums to go Diamond, and it takes 7500pv to be a Platinum! No STO requirement!!
Thanks for spreading more LIES!! You prove my point that you can't get legitment info off a blog like this! Yet some people still read this crap and don't even bother going any further!
Shag, and others... OK well first of all, the company as of last year is now at $4.2 BILLION in sales... that's SALES. Some idiot said "they don't even say if thats net or gross!"
IT SAYS SALES!! Thats total revenue, total sales, not Profit! And as of 8/31/04 Qx has paid out over $1 BILLION to the IBO's- so I know they're making Some $$, plus the owners of the company own a private island, so I think they're clearing enough for theirselves too.
http://a248.e.akamai.net/7/248/729/2a39eda85f5822/www.quixtarfacts.com/images/pdfs/quixtarfacts_factsheet.pdf
Oh, and just because I'm not making big $ yet, doesn't mean I should quit! Once again - Business Owner Mentality vs Employee Mentality. Larry Winters took 5 years to go Platinum, but now is an EDC with 7-8 diamonds on his team!
Hey CK, how did you like THAT post???
Tony, you can't show profit on a sched C, Mike can't show profit and Joe said that even at his level he couldn't show profit. Hell at a $1000 bucks a month even if that was $500 profit... It is not worth it!
The lives of people and the ones they care about are worth more! This may be profitable to the highest pins, but it sounds like poison until you get to that level, and it sounds like only those that are willing to continue to ingest and spread the deception after they get to that level keep in the business. They have turned into leeches that feed on the trust and hard work of others (AKA you Tony).
You can continue and strive to be a parasite Tony, if that is your want in life...go for it. Just know there are better ways to turn a buck then taking it from the trusting ignorant masses.
I am sure your response will include some sort of insult. Contrary to your statement above df is not the only one who you sling the names at and every time you act childish like that it weakens your credibility my angry little friend.
P.S. read that Cave Analogy for sure...Socrates was Plato's sponsor!
Tony, so you admit you're not raking in the bucks, but your upline is. How do you know? Did they show you a schedule C or tell you it's none of your business like my upline did? And of course there will be some people who can show you a profitable schedule C, but you have yet to show us one.
And Tony, you claim that I could not pay $900 to attend a function, that I could drive? How do you drive from Hawaii to Portland? I paid $240 for the family reunion function in portland oregon. That included some meals, but I also had to rent a car for about $50 (my share) and airfare was about $550 round trip from Hawaii to Oregon. And certain meals were not included so I spent another $50 to $100 there. I guess if I was smart like you I would have driven from Hawaii to Oregon but I don't know how to do that.
I also attended FED in San Diego. The ticket was $75 and the rental car was $160.
Meals and hotel was not included with the ticket so that costed me about $300. I believe round trip airfare was about $400 for that function.
Yes Tony, it's easy to rack up bills playing amway/quixtar.
Tonybot>Well just because I Personally can't show you big profit on my schedule C, doesn't mean my sponsor, or some of my upline and crossline couldn't show you profit on Their schedule C!
Well, Tonybot, I suggest that they post here and not you.
You, my dim witted little friend, have NOTHING to show your efforts.
Tonybot>HAHA! df, how dumb do you have to be when an IBO can quote movies better than you? That wasn't Old School, Einstein, it was Billy Madison
Well, you got me there. Sorry for the mixup, I just watched Old School last week and got that confused with the Frank the Tank-blackout debate.
Big victory Tonybot. Well, for you it was....
Congrats.
If that's the biggest "win" you can take away from here, then you should join Mikebot over there on the sidelines.
Michael> I don't waive checks, sorry. That was Tony.
Imran> So I can ask him, or any one who makes income claims to back it up, right? It is a business after all. Just asking to backing up some claim is not rude.
If some one is thinking of opening a franchise, he should be concerned about the franchise profitability and stuff. No?
FTC found Amway guilty of making income claims btw.
Michael>Would you rather have an IBO waiving the profiles of success around or would you have someone show you the business in an honest and ethical manner that worked?
Imran> waving checks or waiving checks? Any ways you know the answer. My upline told me that we undersold the plan. Poorest Diamond I know makes at least $400 K and a lot of other claims.
If some one tells me here are some products to retail. Here are the rules. I might say no, but I would respect the guy and wish him best of luck.
Tony-Bot:"Also, it doesn't take the tools system to go Diamond, like someone said above!"
I have heard of 1 and only 1 diamond who achieved that level through phone plans or something. I'm sure he is not maintaining that.
Here's a simple little phrase that even your twisted little wannabe ninja mind should be able to wrap itself around:
NAME ONE
Name one diamond who is a consistantly requalifying diamond, not on the system.
OK, I'll cut you some slack, just name 1 diamond who is still a diamond, not on the system.
Please provide a link. I am eagerly awaiting your reply. It's a pretty simple question to a simple little man.
Can you answer it?
Joe18 - I won't call you any names since you stayed pretty civil although you got a little sarcastic with "I guess if I was smart like you I would have driven from Hawaii to Oregon but I don't know how to do that.'
Joe, I wasn't saying you should have driven. I was saying that MOST people at 4000PV don't have the expenses YOU did. Most IBOs don't have to fly to their functions, most Drive. I've driven to Nashville, to KY, to Raleigh NC, etc. Thats it!
df, if you just watched it last week - that doesn't say much for you. But hey, I try to like all people even ones with low IQs, so if I don't like you, its not based on that, just your ignorant views of this business.
and Dawson, once again you just don't understand this business. $500 a month PROFIT for just buying thru yourself, having some members and clients, and a team coming on behind you, is more than worth it! Lets say my sponser had $1000 in expenses like Joe18 - that means last month he MADE, profitted over $2000!! For 10 hrs of effort, which includes stuff like Reading a book, making a phone call, and standing in front of a white board drawing circles?? Doesn't sound to damn tough to me. I'll do that for an extra $2000 profit, especially when in 2 more months he's gonna have a $5000 month (with his Platinum bonus). You just don't get it. He's got more time in than me, and one day not that long ago, his checks were only $10.
I never made income claims, as in promises, I just showed proof as to what some Have made. Its no gaurantee - its just FACT!
And rocket - do your own damn research - I don't care if there are any Diamonds not part of a training system that uses books or CDs. The point is, not being in the tools system can't Keep you from Being a Diamond. To go "Eagle", yes it requires a certain amount of tools - but Diamond does NOT!
Tonybot: You are an idiot, plain and simple. You have foregone the 'real' world of dollars and cents for some imaginary world of Eagles and Diamonds.
And you are paying for it to, you will lose your friends and family, your integirty and you could miss out on some opportunities at your J-O-B.
(How much does that bump to the fry machine get you, anyway ???)
As Bob Barker said in Billy Madison
"The price is wrong....bitch!"
Oh wait, that was Happy Gilmore....
Either way, I stand corrected and you are still a straight-up dork!
Hi Tony! How's my little ray of sunshine?
"And rocket - do your own damn research "
I did-I can't find one. That's why I asked you, Ninjabot.
So we go from"The tools would definitely help! but its not a Requirement to go Diamond!"
TO
"To go "Eagle", yes it requires a certain amount of tools - but Diamond does NOT!"
How's that? That sounds like you have absolutely no clue what you are talking about. Isn't going diamond just going eagle a bunch of times? I've heard diamonds describe it that way.
"I don't care if there are any Diamonds not part of a training system that uses books or CDs"
You should. Because there aren't any. If you were half as smart as you think you are, you'd probably ask yourself why.
Tony thinks we are all critical robots, Why would we be here Tony, to foul the water for potential IBO's...just for fun? Or because we
feel an obligation to ask for and tell the other side of the story?
The truth is I think most critics have had an experience that was a negative one, we have seen the dark side of the moon Tony and there aint no cheese there. We have that right to question, many were in the business and left and I feel their stories are even more valid and eye opening.
We are here telling our stories, spreading our experience, and in the view of IBO's tainting the pools of candidates...well that's too bad isn't it. A business that can't stand tall and proud against its critics is not much of a business.
I personally am a skeptic on business practices concerning mind control and deception. You dislike and attack that I spew ignorant questions such as;
Think about the consequences of your choices. Is robbing your friends, and their friends, and their friends...etc, worth it a few hundred bucks, a few thousand, millions, ANYTHING?
Now please pick out the one section of this that you want to argue, and I can't wait to see what insult you throw in as well.
"Men would say of him that up he went and down he came without his eyes; and that it was better not even to think of ascending" Plato- excerpt from the"Cave Analogy"
If you can't figure out a way to succeed, then you will not go far in any venture.
Read Jay Van Andel's autobiography and you will find out the character and work habit of successful people, and they just so happen to be a part of the Quixtar business. I think that is what draws people to it.
The WSA4400 plan is accurate. People are lazy, and rarely will extend themselves beyond their 9-5 job routine.
So, why should it work when 98% of people are already following this plan? (according to the Social Security Administration) Only the cream of the crop, the 2% in the entire population will beat the statistics. Which part do you want to be in? The Financially free or the dead and broke at age 65?
I'll strive for the 2% and lend a helping hand to any and all who will want to do something significant with their lives whether through World Wide Group / Quixtar or any other worthwhile venture. Thank you for your time.
Oh, here's another Amway genius spouting off ideas that aren't his own
"People are lazy, and rarely will extend themselves beyond their 9-5 job routine."
Says who, and who are you to judge how people choose to use their time? If someone helps out at a church or youth group but doesn't make $$ at it, does that mean they aren't extending themselves?
Another dead broke at 65 spew. SHUT UP!!! Show me a link that verifies that claim you ignoramous. I see the fear mongering worked with you. You must be very insecure if you think this is the only way to succeed.
I hate to burst your bubble pal, but you ain't even got a 0.2% chance of making it here with your little (ha ha) business.
When you have an original thought, be sure to share it, otherwise, we've heard it before. Word for tired old repeated word.
Geeze, rocket. Sure, the guy is spouting tapespeak and statistics that he's heard repeated so often he thinks they're true, but at least he was polite. I think we need to remember to limit our vitriole to those who have earned it.
Dave, who told you that 98% of people will be dead or dead broke by age 65? I'm sure you were told that number came from the social security administration?
That number is 70 plus years old, written at a time when indeed, the average life expectancy was under 65, so it is only logical that if most people don't live to age 65, then most people are in fact DEAD by then.
Also, even if that number were true, and only 2% of all people after age 65 were successful, that still begs the question: what's the rate of success in your current endeavor? And you can't say "well, I'm going to be above average", since you've already demonstrated, by quoting that bogus statistic, that you are indeed playing the averages.
The answer to my (perhaps rhetorical) question is that even less that 2% are successful, in any meaningful sense of the word, in Amway or Quixtar. Look at those numbers in really small print at the bottom of your own literature.
Tony,
Even if I had normal business expenses such as being able to drive to functions, I still would not have made a lot of money at 4000 PV. Even though my bonus check was just over $1000, after paying downline I was left with about $600 to $700. That's not bad, but with the amount of time it took to generate that money, and then
buying tapes $240/month, gas $50/month, $100/month average for local and major functions (let's not count the airfare for this argument). I'm basically putting in all my spare time counseling downline, showing the plan and running product call in and pick up. All said and done, I would be getting about $2 an hour for my time. I would have been better off working part time at jack in the box.
Only you really know what's on your schedule C. What you should ask yourself is whether your efforts are worth what you're getting in return? If not then quitting is a good business decision isn't it??
In my case, I was losing money at 4000 PV AND my upline told me to dump my fiance'
which made quitting an easy decision.
I also tried to figure out if I would have made money at direct as I was getting close and I came to the conclusion that I would not have netted enough to make it worthwhile, remembering that directs have extra functions, expenses, etc.
What say you Tony?
Can someone explain what they mean by broke at age 65? I know a lot of people over 65 who paid off their mortgages, take trips every other month, have good income from investments and pension plans.
And can someone give us a link that shows that 98% of people are dead or broke by age 65? I heard the amway speakers say it but I haven't seen any evidence of it.
Dave P> Which part do you want to be in? The Financially free or the dead and broke at age 65?
Imran> It's a lie spread by Ron Puryear and other scammers.
Mr. Puryear noted the study was found in the 1934 Senate hearings before the enactment of Social Security. The 20,000 study participants were all born before the American civil war.
And how come Ken McDonalds, who was never a Quixtar IBO retired at 55?
http://www.amquix.info/humor/retirement/retirement.html
And here is this Quixtar urban legend exposed.
http://www.amquix.info/amway_retirement_legend.html
See Michael, verifying facts is important. It's not rude, it's only fair. Many of us have lost money because we didn't.
Tony> Shag, and others... OK well first of all, the company as of last year is now at $4.2 BILLION in sales... that's SALES. Some idiot said "they don't even say if thats net or gross!"
IT SAYS SALES!! Thats total revenue, total sales, not Profit! >
well I must admit, thats a mix up the meaning of the words a bit, sry my fault, I did mean though, the company doesn't talk about profits overall anyway.
Sry for the confusion there.
Plus thax for the update, maybe you should tell quixtar to put that on their site. 3.1 billion compared to 4.2 billion is a big difference ya know. Hey can you keep us informed!? Maybe you can also tell us the number of diamonds and higher postion are above diamond are? and even actually the number of people in the business? That would be a very helpful numbers. Still haven't heard the number yet, and still waiting.
Tony> And as of 8/31/04 Qx has paid out over $1 BILLION to the IBO's- so I know they're making Some $$, plus the owners of the company own a private island, so I think they're clearing enough for theirselves too.
Okay, company started 1999, use your 1 billion to all ibos. convert to years, 200 mil a year. Hey whats the highest lvl for IBO!?
How many diamonds are there!? Come on really, give us the number. It would help all of us.
O yes the owners of the company own a island........oooooo ahhhh......yes because your all below them........and they making money off of you. Their volume makers
Though truefully, I don't care about the owners
Do you really think presidents and CEO are bad!? just because they make more money!?....But yet your owners are still making the money too!? alot of it also
Ceo's and president are evil because if the worker slacks off, the company will actually downfall. They take there job and evilness seriously. and lets face it, not all ceos and president or guys that make more money than us are half bad.
Anyway, I don't care about the owners to much, I care about the people below them. How are they doing. They making a profit!? Getting money, living!? eating drinking!?
May I ask you something, just answer them honsetly!?
How much money do you spend on them(quixtar), to like go to semiars, tapes, cds, books, travel cost.
OKay I'm not trying to insult you or anything.
I'm trying to find numbers and compare to numbers that quixtar gave.
Well you turn again =P
DF,
I am done commenting on this post. I am really sorry. I thought you people wanted to have an intelligent discussion, debate etc. But its not going to happen I see. Really kind words there DF, I am surprised you eat with that mouth. I am not going to respond the same way you talked to me. I will be the bigger man and walk away from this. Nice attitude people.
I think I am going to have to agree with joecool here. I really think it all has to do with reforming the systems and not making the business so cumbersome on people.
I do think you were buying waay too many tapes. I would just tell someone, Just stick with s/o, which now has been reformed to a monthly subscription package for the functions and cds. If you need to buy extras, they are a lot cheaper.
But anyway, I think in order to retain people in the system, it can't be such a drain on people's time and pocketbooks. Running halfway across the globe three times a year is also crazy. Maybe that worked in times past but in all reality that's not going to cut it anymore. Folks will just quit eventually with those expenses. But first you should have just stayed home. Too bad what your upline would have said. But the system has to reform or it will stagnate, which seems the case the last few year. I am not in favor in doing away with the systems altogether. After all, they serve a purpose for training and plugging new people into it. That's really what its for and where its the most valuable, to provide trainng and motivation for new IBOs, and not as an income tool for big pins. Nor to be a "church" or social venue for IBOs.
Oh I think df wanted to know something...
Well I'm tired and you know its hot out too. So I'm not going to say much more. But stay tuned, we gonna talk about Quixtar only diamonds next week!
You're right Big M, system gotta change. We're seeing effects in North American market. There have been some changes in prices of tapes etc.
BUT
Quixtar prices are rising real high! I became free / quit at May 2003 and now, OMG.
And carry too little PV! (Don't ask, I know how to log as an IBO while I'm not an IBO)
Great products are vanishing real fast. Seriously, many money saving concentrated products are replaced by fashionable energy drinks and bars.
Leave system, leave reputation, products are not good any more. Trendy crappy stuff. And real high prices!
Why you guys keep working hard on it is beyond me.
Michael> I am done commenting
Imran> Heard that before from you Michael! But I know you'll be back ;)
I guess there is a niche for certain types of products...xs and all. I am sure they do well for a lot of IBOs but eventually will run its course. Does seem like it has a lot of steam though.
But really, what built Amway was its core line products. Concentration. Biodegradability. There was some focus on environmental awareness for a while too, but not as much anymore. Products need to have some sort of unique selling proposition, not just more of the same out there. I think there's too much non-Alticor produced contract product that's way too generic. It makes the entire marketing scheme seem unfocused.
A side note, I tend to believe U.S. prices seem to be a little more in line, especially last year or two on general commodities and not so in Canada.
Well
At first I did like the business. It seemed cool, you know, run your "own business.
Though I think it was the points that drew me off. It didn't run straight into the cash. Plus when it did, they just said you make this much cause of this many points. Well, whats your profit of course. It's hard to run a business when you have next to slich to supply it.
Also theres still nothing to be your own boss about. It's not like you did anything on your own except get other people to see these quixtar products and sell them or create volume for their website.
You didn't have any say in the products they decided to make. In the price of the products, who are we going to aim the sales too(you know bikes for young adults or candy for kids....trying to figure out who might want to buy it, or want it). nor how the product looks when designed, taste, smells, feels.
I'm missing the being your own boss part I think
Also you have to think. Why do you need 224400 people to advertise a product!?.......................and pay them for their efforts.
Ever hear of mass communication. Why don't they put it on the radio, t.v, newpaper, pop up ads. Why do they want everyone to get rich!? Come on, the biggest problem in this world is greed. Why would other people want to help other people get rich!? Well maybe to help close friends get rich But not complete strangers.
It's a little strange
Well I'm still waiting for numbers but no one seems to have writen them on this post.
They are, how many ibos are there now. How many of each postion are there. How much they can make currently. Profits of busines.
Still waiting, no answers
I think that I just got the "spiel" today. I went to see a man to buy some worms. (that sound like the opening to stupid joke, and it may be worse than I thought) He talked and I listened. It ended with me telling him I would look at the materials. In looking into Quixtar I found this site.
I was completely unaware of Quixtar until today. My questions are asked merely to get the answers. Why is Quixtar not openly reporting ALL of their financial information? I mean all of the numbers that people are writing about here. I am sure that the "anti" group will reply "because this is a scam!" You have all made your point to me. I am doubtful. I guess I am looking for a response from the "pro" group. Get the info from whoever is above you, and if they don't have it ask them to get it. How many people are at each level in the group (ie Diamond, Ruby, Platnium) How many $ of Sales, how much profit, how much paid out to IBOs. If we had all of the information, this would be easy to understand. If this is such a great opportunity, and the numbers prove it, why aren't they posted on Qixtar's web site? I want this not to be a scam. It sounds great, but I want to know what it is before I get any deeper in it. Drop the curtian and show me the wizard.
Amen, Billyboy.
Let's just lay it out on the table.
The PROFIT numbers should either prove or disprove the validity of the Quixtar business.
And Hell will officially freeze over the day that happens.
Imran,
Imran> Heard that before from you Michael! But I know you'll be back ;)
Rightfully deserved.
That's all for my time, thanks for yours!
"Next week"? We'll talk about it NEXT WEEK??? Where have you been, guy? That's been the topic of contention for MONTHS now, and we've yet to be presented with ONE SINGLE NAME of a person who's signed up in quaxtar and gone diamond. All we get is evasion, obfuscation. Remember, that's the question: Give us an example of someone who's "gone diamond" following the "2-5 year plan" in the last SIX YEARS. It IS coming up six years now, you know. Even a red herring we can research and refute! Do you seriously think you have some new special spin we can't demolish with half our brains tied behind our backs (or haven't already)? Come on, get it over with...
You know the kingpins are laughing at you (at least I do). They used to call you "amholes"; I don't know what they would call you now. Maybe "quixtards". It's a 2-5 year plan only in the sense that if you don't see right through the nonsense and drop out, it's 2-5 years until they suck you dry and you quit in desperation.
Next week M&M will likely tell you about a couple by the name of Tim and Amy Marks who it's been said are the 1st Quixtar only diamonds.
I haven't researched this but maybe someone else has.
Ahh, the "third diamond" in Team of Density (now known as just "Team") whose "fourth diamond" was actually Orrin Woodward's UPLINE ruby when he signed up. Talk about a "chosen one". Someone that suddenly skyrockets to diamond (six platinum in width frontline) in an organization that touts a single "taproot" in depth, otherwise known as "stacking". Then there's Orrin himself who's gone EDC now, bogartin' them legs! I can't remember when Marks signed up originally, but the very tall, very pointy ToD pyramid is the easiest of all to skewer. Let me see what I can scare up re Marks.
OMG I think you're onto something! Orrin Woodward (a confirmed and blatant liar) claims Tim Marks to have started in October 1999 (yet which I have no particular reason to dispute) and to have qualified as Founder's Diamond in August 2004. Well, that (may be) one.
Woohoo! Go diamond! That is, IF you've signed up under a LOA that HAPPENS TO NEED an example of "success" they can dangle in front of the lumpen proletariat as a carrot to keep them paying their hard-earned money, AND you are or are willing to become a crass hypocrite, telling people they can purchase their way to wealth.
Hey Tony... your sponsor, supposedly making a profit (all you've claimed is he's grossing enough that he SHOULD be making a profit unless he's blatantly stupid)... What's the deal there, eh? Is he retailing? How much? Outside of that (if any) any money he's getting is coming from you and people like you running a loss on his behalf. It would be much cheaper for you if you just handed him some cash every month for nothing. Of course then you'd need to find some people to do that for you. Why would they do something that dumb? How can you find them? Your "sponsor" found you, after all, duh. But for anyone to show a "profit" (and by this I mean the real definition, not "different things to different people") each has to have (how many?) people losing to them. Pretty soon you run out of people dumb enough to think that will work. And you claim it can't ever be saturated. How cute. It's the definition of a pyramid, though, and we can't admit that, can we?
What the heck does this guy have to do with the products you and the rest of his downline chumps buy anyway? Does he invent them? Manufacture them? Distribute them to you? No? You order them directly from the manufacturer for more than they're worth and they're delivered straight to you for big $, right? All he did was con you into it, and he deserves how much for that? So he (allegedly) runs a profit. Yay, it's possible! You're bound and determined to do so yourself, but to do it, you have do develop a group of people losing money for you, there's something to be proud of!
Shag,
You wanted to know how much we spent on Tools.
Here's my "tools" order (for WWDB, not quixtar) last month:
1) SOT:zero- haven't been on SOT since 2004
2) Personal website: $40.90 per month hosting fees
3)Communikate lite version: $29.00per month
4)dreambuilders internet service email:$5.00 per month
5)functions:zero(haven't been to a function since 2003)
6)travel expenses:zero(prospect online or in my downtime)
So thats $75/per month. I can cover that with selling a couple of cases of XS or Kahvecchino's. Please don't forget that it is considered a tax write off too.
I won't post my schedule C, but I can post my invoices for proof.
Mikebot>I won't post my schedule C, but I can post my invoices for proof.
Why post one, but not the other Mikebot??
I think you are HIDING SOMETHING!!!
Gee, what a surprise.
More unsubstantiated (sp!) claims by more clueless ambots.
Just because you didn't buy tape and/or book of the week(s) last month DOESN'T mean that you NEVER buy them.
On average, how much do you spend on that stuff ??? And why, after all your lies and half-truths posted here, should any of us believe you anyway???
Your credibility is shot Mikey -- just walk away and find another sight to prospect at.
I'm sure you'll do well wherever you go (yeah, right, snicker-snicker-snicker).
You HAVE to appease your upline and appear to be at least somewhat 'plugged in' into their system. Come on man, we all have heard and/or lived the stories. Who do you think you are dealing with here???
You gotta do more than just comm-lite to appease the greedy little s-o-b(s)
Fire up Mikey, remember a greedy s-o-b is better than the fair pay and opportunity that comes from a J-O-B.
Right?
Right??
Errr - WRONG!
Billyboy:
Congrats on having a brain. If it sounds too good to be true, it probably is.
The 'pro' side have all been sucked in and are financially tied to their biased opinons.
So, I would take everything they say with a grain of salt. There is a very good chance that you will be paying into one of their bonus/tool plans.
Think of it this way -- if you were going to start a "real" franchise (say, oh I don't know, a McDonalds), then McDonalds would show you a full financial plan of expected expenses and returns, along with the overall health/performance of the brand.
You are getting that here. If that isn't a big fat red flag, I don't know what is.
Looks like you were buying worms and found yourself a bloodsucker....give that one the hook, if you know what I mean!
Good luck.
Embot>Oh I think df wanted to know something...
Yep, still looking for that great opportunity that you were talking about. You know, the one that yields (CONSISTENTLY) above 8-12%.....
There is a reason that you haven't posted it yet -- reason being that you DON'T HAVE IT
At least you are seeing
a. the lost-focus on product vs. tools in your organization.
b. that tools/system should be greatly downplayed.
Now, if you could only see the dependent relationship between a & b
You might just see how badly you are getting scammed.
So, you don't have a better plan than I do, and you can't yet quite see the scam you are wrapped up in.
I can understand why you are so upset.
But, you're getting there Embot. As this whole thing drags on, you'll get more and more complacent in your "system" as the lies and broken-promises stack up.
And then maybe you'll understand that the only way 'up' in good, honest, hard, work and a smart investing plan.
I'm on the way up, maybe I'll see you there.
df,
I normally don't go on the attack, but you seem to think that the McDonald's franchise is the greatest franchise ever(probably because you work there). Maybe Mcdonald's is the only franchise you know of.
Think Mcdonald's is the most ethically run franchise?
Thnk again dude! here's an example:
http://www.licenseenews.com/ethics3.html
Why don't you page through that website and find all the legal documentation about Mcdonald's hiring underage kids, constantly being sued by parents cause they are over working their kids and they aren't getting the proper education. Yeah I want your JOB DF!!! Fired up about going to work on monday woooo hoooo!!!
Another interesting statistic from that website- most of the franchisees operated at a LOSS last year, some had to close their doors, leaving the franchisee in debt of up to(if not more) than $500,000. Even your beloved franchise operated at a 10% loss for its stockholders!!
Lets not forget that before you even see a profit in your beloved franchise you'll be in your 60's flipping burgers!
Hell yeah still fired up about that opportunity?
here's another document directly from the FTC on your beloved franchise df:
http://www.ftc.gov/bcp/franchise/comments/final61.htm
How many lawsuits are against the franchise for child obesity? How many lawsuits are there for hiring illegal immigrants?
DF, if your soooo fired up about that MCdonald's franchise, how many do YOU own? Better question yet, what company do you own now?
Your probably a nice kid offline, thank god for the internet to allow you to be an online bully. Your rants are cleverly designed baits to get under an IBO's skin. Why don't you just go be a TROLL somewhere else df? huh?
You have NO clue of what your talking about!
You are right df, just because I am not on sot, doesn't mean I haven't bought any cd's this year- I didn't say that. The only ones I bought this year were from Brad Duncan and Dean Kosage. Maybe four of them at the max this year- so what? I think I have explained this to people before!
your comment:
"Your credibility is shot Mikey -- just walk away and find another sight to prospect at."
Who says I am prospecting here? I am offering a PRO Q side to the arguement.
If Qblog didn't want the pro Q side- he wouldn't have put my blog or dave's blog in his favorites list!
Again your comments are another cleverly designed bait just to get under an IBO's skin! Go be a troll somewhere else DF.
Hi DF. Thought you said you were done here? You said to DF:
"You have NO clue of what your talking about! "
Really? I'm curious. How did you come up with the conclusion that DF doesn't know what he's talking about? We all seem to have a pretty good handle on how you're little rinky dink Amway business works.
Yep. There are problems in franchises. I don't think anyone has ever said otherwise. If you look at what people write here, it's essentially 2 things
1. Prices are not competitive over the long haul. (no, they're not)
2. Money is in the tools.
Period! Period! Period!
Even M&M acknowledges that the system is too much.
What DF was saying, if you would read it, instead of glancing at his post and trying to change the subject by slamming franchises, is that if you are looking to buy a franchise, or any other business, the seller is obligated to open up the books, and provide full disclosure.
Ever hear of full disclosure? Look it up, because it's something you weren't provided.
Real businesses do that.
Yours doesn't.
oops, meant to say Hi to Michael. My bad.
Ohhh, poor Mikebot, he is getting bullied by the big-bad df bully..........
Desite your attempt attack-back, you fell flat on your face swinging Mikebot.
DF>Think of it this way -- if you were going to start a "real" franchise (say, oh I don't know, a McDonalds), then McDonalds would show you a full financial plan of expected expenses and returns, along with the overall health/performance of the brand.
Mikebot>"...but you seem to think that the McDonald's franchise is the greatest franchise ever"
REALLY? Where did I say that.
Then you go on to attack McDonalds
That isn't congruent logic, Mikebot!!!
You are desperate Mikebot. These are wild punches, none of which are landing....
Mikebot, I instead of trying to throw haymakers, why don't you just throw in the towel??? No one is buying what you are selling here....
ROPE A DOPE! ROPE A DOPE!
Mikebot goes down, Mikebot goes down!
Seriously, if you don't want to use McDonalds as an example (I thought you would because so many of your ambot buddies reference McD's @ the beginning of their meetings), then use ANY FRANCHISE.
Subway? JimmyJohn's? Starbucks?
Pick one. ANY one. Bottom line: The franchise shows its books to the prospective liscensee.
The scam you are involved in DOES NOT.
Ring the bell, this fight is OVER!!!
rocket,
If there weren't pro IBO's posting here this blog would look like nothing but a bunch of broke losers who quit! Creating the bathroom walls of society!!
Do MCdonalds really open their books up to full discloser?Really? show me one franchise that opens up both the profits AND the losses fully. Show me ONE!!!
Better yet, show me one franchise that offers a schedule C from the CEO of the company, all I need is ONE!! Show me one franchise that opens up all of the FTC complaints it has against it rocket!
Why doesn't Bo Short open up his Schedule C?? I didn't see his schedule C posted on the dateline expose!!
Rocket, I agree completely the tools business is way too expensive- I've been agreeing with you all along- why do you think I stopped going to functions, got off standing order, etc? Plus, I don't push the tools on my downline!! I teach my downline cashflow, hello!!
If the products weren't competitive, wouldn't people stop buying them? Thats your opinion- not mine!
Df doesn't know what he's talking about because he resorts to slamming IBOs and putting people down. No business owner I know does that! You can make your points without petty insults!. The petty insults are only coming from the critics! If you want to insult people- go back to the first grade!!
Df is nothing but a TROLL who offers nothing positive!!
Truth is I LEARN from you critics to help improve my business!! Isn't THAT what you are here for?
Yeah my business is rinky dink!! Its designed that way!!! It just proves you don't know how the MLM model really works!
Oh, I know how the MLM model works, and I stand by my definition of rinky dink.
For someone off the system, there's still quite a bit of tapespeak coming out of you.
Bo Short isn't making ridiculous income claims, like the people in your rinky dink business. You may not, but you are guilty by association, and face it, people won't do this for a couple extra bucks a month. It's a pretty lame deal, really.
Hey Michael, this this thing about you wanting me to show you ONE, tells me you don't have a fricking clue about how real businesses operate. It's called a P&L statement. It is an analysis of money coming in vs. money going out. Profit and loss, get it?
There are various ways of doing this, and I'm not going to confuse your fragile little brain any further by explaining it to you, but suffice to say, anyone who is running a business keeps some semblance of a P&L ledger.
AND THAT, my positive thinking naive friend, is why you don't really have a business, when you are affiliated with Quixtar.
YOU don't have price control
YOU don't have inventory control
YOu don't have merchandise control.
Threee essential basics to any type of business. If you think your Amway soap is too expensive, what are you gonna do about it? Nothing
Because you can't.
PS Michael, don't confuse the truth with being negative.
It's not healthy, mentally, nor financially.
Hey Michael,
Great points about all the lawsuits with McDonalds. But you've overlooked one very important part in your legal finger-pointing.
McDonald's has never been sued by it's franchise owners for perpetrating a lie to them.
rocket,
I don't want to control the prices,
I don't want to control the inventory,
I don't want to control the merchandise.
I thought you knew how the MLM model works? The MLM model eliminates all that. All I do is retail AND wholesale.
Just because my talk is positive you call it tapespeak. I know you've heard it all before- I ain't niave. I also understood that I am guilty by association when I first started this rinky dink business!!
Rocket did you read my blog today about how quixtar really works? That article IS going to my downline and my upline...
I am off the system, but I still listen to the CDs I have sometimes.
You guys didn't ask for a P&L statement you asked for a schedule C...
I am Canadian. I have an idea of what a schedule C is, but have never seen one.
Why would you not want to control those aspects of your business? No smarts? confidence? Desire? That, my friend, is employee mentality, something which you discourage, n'est pa?
Tapespeak is tapespeack, Mike-Bot.
In a real business, when you own it, you control everything, either directly, or by delegation.
Get real, my friend. You sound too smart for Quixtar.
Rocket,
Don't waste your time on Mikebot, he's is DONE. He is doesn't know what he is looking for, so it is very easy for him to find satisfaction in ANY piece of flim-flam that is offered to him by his upline.
His arguments and his demeanor is just old & tired. They have never held up here on these threads, and he knows it.
There is some hope for Embot. He can at least see that his operating system for his "business" is broken -- too much emphasis on tool $$$ instead of the honest movement of product.
Mikebot:
McDonald's as a publicly held company has to make all the proper filings with the SEC. If you take issue with McD's filings/numbers, then I suggest you take it up with the SEC.
Again, it will be another futile effort; with you left pouting that life is unfair...
I can see you know, stooped over one of your crappy xs-concocted cocktails
"Its not fair, the numbers really DO matter!"
Wah-wah
rocket,
I have run a real business in the past- I just sold out of a retail only business offering nascar collectibles last year in a 5,000 sq ft retail store. SO I know what it takes to handle retail, price structure, accounting, etc. I also sold a bunch of my collectibles on ebay. I have a degree in information systems and been working on a 4 year bachelor's degree in business management. I had a good clientele with my collectibles store.
Real reason I joined quixtar? I didn't want to control everything. It had nothing to do with desire, smarts or confidence. It had everything to do with- and here's the tapespeak- TIME!! DUH!!
Mikebot>I just sold out of a retail only business offering nascar collectibles last year in a 5,000 sq ft retail store.
Wow. NASCAR collectibles!!! You really know a lucrative business when you see one.
Mikebot>I have a degree in information systems and been working on a 4 year bachelor's degree in business management.
Translation: I am a computer dork and I am hoping that a business degree will make me less dorky.
Seriously Mike, after reading your last post, I really do feel sorry for you. You are more messed up than I thought. I can totally see how you fell for the A/Q spiel hook, line and sinker....
...seriously, I hope you get out of this and get put something together with your life.
-DF
Just to clarify about franchise.
They DO have to open their books regarding income/expense, demographic profitability, and YES, even LAWSUITS.
Do any of you that said franchise this and franchise that ever OPEN ONE?
Even BEFORE YOU THINK about signing a franchise agreement, you have to receive a Uniform Franchise Offering Circular (UFOC) and contract with a ten-days and five-days WAITING period. Ie., you have to have those materials for TEN DAYS before you are allowed to join them.
I operated a juice franchise. Their UFOC listed ALL LAWSUITS related to the business. Also average revenue, income and expense (breakdown).
Furthermore, there are Financial Institutions that will give you LOAN to OPEN A FRANCHISE. I.e., this institutions will analyze the business plan (UFOC, etc.) and if they think it's a good plan, they will give you a loan. So, of course the franchisor have to give full disclosure. Financial institutions are NOT STUPID (they want their money back). And hiding information will reduce the number of potential franchisee (not everybody has $200K lying in the bank). Hence, full disclosure is good for everybody (franchisor get more franchisee, financial institutions can give more loan with confidence, franchisee knows what they're dealing with).
Bottom line: ANYBODY that wants to sell BUSINESS but cannot or does not want to give/proof ALL financial numbers are NOT WORTH looking into.
df, don't tell me I'm gonna loose my friends and family. I haven't yet! Most of my family supports me, and I still ahve all my friends. Just cause some IBO friend of yours was over bearing doesn't neam I am!
Rocket, there was no contradiction in what I said. IT DOES NOT TAKE TOOLS TO GO DIAMOND!! To go Eagle, yes, it means a certain amount of tool flow, and functions, etc. but there is no requirement of TOOLS for Diamond, why can't you get that thru your thick head? Going diamond is going platinum a bunch of times. YOU'RE the one that doesn't know what he's talkng about! Do you realize that you could be a Platinum or Diamond, and not even be an Eagle! Eagle is not a PV level, its a structure and tool flow level. Get the facts before you talk. I don't care what you've heard. Eagle is 12 wide, 10 SOT's, 3 legs at functions, etc. (in other words, you can't be Eagle with no tools) - Diamond is 6 legs @ 7500pv (in other words, no tool requirement) - get it??
dawson, I'm not robbing friends, thanks for sharing your scewed view of the business again! If you don't want to own a business, thats fine, I do , and I don't have a problem helping others that want to also. Not forcing anything on anyone.
Joe18, you must be old school - no one pays downline anymore, at least not in BWW. When my sponsor was 4000pv, he was making over $1000 too!, but he kept it all, he didn't have to pay downline, our checks came directly from Quixtar too! Its tough to spend $1000 a month in this biz. So I think most 4000's are making money, or at least breaking even. $500 a month in expenses would be alot. $1000 a month is just unwise investing. Only spend it if you got it - you don't need that many tapes!
Now he's at 7500, almost qualified Platinum and he's definitely making money, and helping me to do what he's done.
Sorry you were told to leave your fiance. I don't agree with your sponsor telling you that, but once again, you can't blame everyone in the business cause YOUR sponsor told you to do something stupid.
Shag, I got those numbers off Quixtars site - if you go to quixtarfacts.com, you can get all types of info.
Also, you ask how much I spend on "them(quixtar), seminars, books CDs, etc. Well first of all Quixtar has nothing to do with seminars, CDs, tools, etc. Quixtar just supplies the website, the products, and the partner companies we work with. Its the training and support system that has seminars, cds, and books available.
I spend about $40-50 a month on CDs and books. I spend $90 once every 3 months for a big conference. I spend $15 a month for my personal webiste and $31 for our 'kate voicemail system. Wow, a wopping $115 a month in expenses, which I can write off, and @ 1000pv I make about $200/month.
But my goal isn't 1000pv, its 7500, and when I get there I plan to help others. See this business tesches you to help others. Sorry that concept is weird to you! Sorry YOU don't have a giving spirit, I DO! I've even done things to help CROSSLINE - people I have no financial stake in. Its one thing to help downline, cause it still benfits you. But its another thing to help someone else for the sake of helping them!
Sorry this concept is weird, I think that really says something about you.
Tonybot, it is just a matter of time before you get slapped by your upline for crosslining.....
...just as it is a matter of time before you start to alienate your friends and family.
There is a reason that soooo many people are here sharing these stories.
They are trying to teach YOU. They are giving--they are giving their experiences for you to learn from.
You're right, when you said, "...its another thing to help someone else for the sake of helping them! "
Why can't you see that these people are trying to HELP you?
The only weird concept here is that you fail to see the similarities between so many strangers' mlm-related stories.
But we all know that you aren't much of a student...otherwise you would have learned more in your business classes.
df, explain how I "crosslined"?? More assumptions from the biggest critbot of them all... I'm gonna love to hear this!
it's been over a year, I don't think any friends or family are gonna feel alientated, thanks for the continued ignorant assumptions!
Yea, there is a reason: people like to complain! Everyone knows that you are more likely to tell someone about a horrible waiter at a restaurant, than one who was really good. Thats the nature of humans.
No one's helping anyone here. You guys are just venting, and trying to "save" any potential IBO's, while pro-qx are simply telling there stories.
You guys are sharing your bad experiences, we're sharing our good ones. And my experiences have been good. I've met a lot of great people, made a lot of friends. Been given the opportunity to take my talents and efforts to develop a business.
I enjoy promoting XS to bars, restaurants, and people, and the other products, and the business as a whole. I enjoy eating pizza late at night listening to people speak about stuff that matters to them, and being in a positive environment.
If that sounds gay to you, or just weird, then fine, I couldn't really care! So its not for you. But don't pretend like YOU spouting halftruths and assumptions on here has anything to do with helping ME or Anyone!!
Tony will never go diamond. For that matter he will never even go Platinum. I told everyone from the begininng. He is one of the Sock Monkeys hired by the Quixtar PR guys to post nonsense on these "negative" sites. Thats why you would not find any coherence in his arguments. Just tape talk.. Tony moron.... I hope they are paying you well for your posts, unlike the IBOs who get screwed by the corporation and the AQMOs.
Tonybot>I've even done things to help CROSSLINE - people I have no financial stake in.
So, I guess I didn't make an assumption at all -- YOU SAID YOU CROSSLINED!!!!
I took it right from the jackass's mouth!
Tonybot>it's been over a year, I don't think any friends or family are gonna feel alientated
Just because they aren't saying it straight-up, doesn't mean that they don't think it.
I know a lot of people who are waiting for their loved ones to "come back" from being wrapped up in this mess.
They want to keep communication open so it is easier when the ambot crashes and comes back to reality.
Just wait Tony, I am not making this stuff up.....
df, thanks for walking into that one! You're a frickin moron (Dr. Evil voice)
Do you know what crosslining is? Its when you give advise to a crossline, tell them how to do things, things they should be checking with their upline for.
See what I said was "I've even done things to help crossline". Such as loaning XS materials to a crossline guy who was doing a sampling booth. Also, I met a guy who was interested in the business and found out he went to HS with a crossline guy I knew, so I told him to contact his HS buddy and even gave my crossline buddy the guy's #. I also showed the plan once to a guy I worked with, and he was about to get started, but found out his friend was an IBO too - I told the guy, either way was cool with me, just to give it a serious look, and he ended up getting in on his friend's team.
None of that is crosslining nimwit! Looks like you're the jack@ss now bozo! Quit making assumptions and putting words in my mouth - I never said I crosslined - YOU did! Stop speaking out of your A$$!
And prisSAD - shouldn't you be lynching someone in the street right now? You are a complete idiot if you really think I'm paid by Qx to post here. I think my arguments are very coherent, you must have me confused with Shag ;) Also, you claim I tapespeak, right? Do you really think Qx employees listen to tapes or CDs?? Why would non-IBOs listen to CDs - you're 1 step above "mildly retarded"... 1 very short step.
What you dont realize is that 80% of people who get in never sign one person up, who's fault is that, their sponsor or that persons. every single person who gets into the business has access to the same system. you tell me that you have the same oportunity to advance to the position of a CEO at your job where you have people choosing who will succede, you have to apply and then wait for someone to say "okay" you can make more money. Instead with this you can say "ok" i want to make more money and go and get the information on how to do it and go do it.
You guys and your facts dont take into consideration that the majority of people have a very week contituion, and that if you really wanted to succede in this you could, and the fact that BWW is the second largest creator of millioaires next to microsoft. Quixtars revenue keeps going up, that means that more and more people are making money, not just a few. So unless you have given your all your 100% to this business and actually tried it, I sugest you sit down shut up, go back to your job and say "yes boss, yes boss, kiss kiss kiss" for the rest of your life, or take some initiative and start up a business, because it is obvious that jobs dont work.- AMEN-
and by the way what you are doing to mike is very wrong, if he wants to try and succede and has a dream, you dont have the right to take it away "God makes the dream and the dream makes the man" Dave Severn. He has a dream for a reason. Dont be pissed because you Pissed yours down the drain years ago.
WTF is a "contituion" or a "millioaires"
"yes boss, yes boss, kiss kiss kiss"
Thanks for the Dave Severn quotes, I think most of us here have heard enough of those in our days in Amway/Quixtar
blahlidity blah blah.. We have heard it all before. Are you really that clueless mr/ms "Unknown" to think we're a bunch of negative prospects? Why don't you take your posture and shove it up your tapehole.
your just pissed because im right and you know it
where is your intelectual rebuttle, i think if you knew that i wasn't right then you would of actually said something other than making fun of my spelling and "blahlidity blah blah.. We have heard it all before. Are you really that clueless mr/ms "Unknown" to think we're a bunch of negative prospects? Why don't you take your posture and shove it up your tapehole."
If it is something that you dont think you cant do or wont work for you dont try and convince other people not to do it, just the same as I dont think that i could ever be an NBA player, but that doesn't mean that no one else can or that anyone else will ever make it to the NBA. Look at the stats for that howmay people play highschool ball, or no look at the amout of people who have ever played basketball and then see howmany people play in the NBA, check out he numbers on that. That doesn't mean that the NBA deosn't work or that no one has a chance to get into the NBA does it.
if you dont like unknown call me eagle, because that's the level i am. and am profitable
"unknown" has every reason to want to be such. I wonder: does he wipe the drool from his own chin or does he need help?
Anyway, "mikebot" as they're calling you... "I've met a lot of great people, made a lot of friends...." Is that what you signed up for? Was that "the plan" you were shown that you fell for, or was there money involved? Is there any money? Real profit (dictionary definition)?
"Diamond" is, of course, a level with the corporation, whereas "eagle" is a reflection of how sold out you are to the bsm scam in BWW particularly. It seems we MAY have uncovered a quaxtar-only diamond (where's that embot got to?) but we're gonna need a whole lot more help finding anyone that's gone diamond off system since before the systems. Got any names?
Fact is, part of any system is something called "self-preservation". That means, a system will do things that may not seem entirely rational to those outside, just to undercut something that may someday be competition. There is no LOS to my knowledge that isn't plugged into some bsm scam or other, so there's nobody you can sign up under that isn't downline of some kingpin. Quite frankly, you're not going to be ALLOWED to get to that kind of level downline of any kingpin. They have all kinds of ways to see to that, and the corporation, being complicit in their scam, is all too willing to enforce rules selectively in the kingpins' favor.
In that sense, of course you see greater success "on system" than "off system"; upline (contrary to the rules in the business compendium) will make sure their "core" dupes will have all the help that will do them any good, but may just leave some banana peels in the path of anyone who hasn't bought in. After all, where do they REALLY make their money? T'ain't from quaxtar...
If you had the chance to sit in and listen to donald trumph and ask him questions about how he got to where he is, or if you could pay from some audio CD's by him on how he got to where he is, would you do so if you wanted to get into business for yourself. I dont see anything wrong with buying some CD's and going to functions. and by the way I see nothing wrong with listening to people who know how to put the business together.... i still havn't heard a real response to what i wrote earlier.
And by the way we dont hid the fact that you make money from BWW so it's not a suprize
and by the way im pretty sure listening to people who have already reached high levels, especially when those people have thought about how to build it better in a group effort, it would probbly be a good idea to get started with them as oposed to doing it onyour own....dont you think?
It just makes sense.
and by the way lets do the math. how much money do you make? How much money do successfull people in quixtar make? who do you think is the better person to listen to? The only way that we succede is if we have people in our group succede, so why would they give you information to hold you back?
I have a question for you Mr. Eagle:
Can you show me proof that BWW is second to Microsoft in producing millionaires? Did someone say it at one of the functions you attended? If so, did you just accept it or did you bother to research the validity of the claim before you regurgitated it here?
Just curious.
Eagle.
Please consider using proper grammar and spelling if you are going to post this much.
It’s just sad really. The fact that you misspelled intellectual rebuttal almost made me roll on the floor laughing. You might also consider paragraphs instead of separate posts it will make you look less sporadic.
Now that some housekeeping is out of the way..
Are you reciting a tape/cd? You do realize that almost everyone here has already heard what you have been saying, either in person or on tape, hundreds of times before.
Basically you are saying the same ol' tapespeak, badly.
At least the other pro Quixtar people appear to coming to the table with something that resembles logic.
To answer your last question, what does it matter what I make at my job? I'm not running around lying to people about how much income they could make if they work for me. For your question about how much money "successful" people in Quixtar make, who knows? The ones that look successful lose their house or are found out to have lost millions in scams. It’s all about fakin' it till you make it. In other words, lying. I have to wonder are you lying? Are you really profitable? Are you really even an eagle? Who knows, and quite frankly I don’t really care.
I just found your posts to be so annoying and puerile, that I had to post something.
Also if you want to "do the math" then you better actually have some numbers to back up your claims.
Oh no, who let the clowns of the AmQuix car.....
Unknown, Eagle....are these all part of Tony's downline? Did Tonybot bring them here to raise some sort of xs-fueled- blogging-tapespeak- jihad?
Or maybe it's just Tony trying on several of his multiple personalities....
........guess what Tony, the ALL suck!
Oh and another thing...
...just kidding. I thought that would be funny because Mr. Eagle (Eagle-bot???)
seems to do that a lot.
Well, I thought it was funny at least.
I think I have figured out what a "quixtar only" diamond is!!!!!!!
From what I've gathered is that a "quixtar only" diamond is one who didn't make money off the tools business or a AMO support system. because if there was a "quixtar only" diamond, he would just be supported by "quixtar only".
The "quixtar only" diamond would only be supported by retail clients and nothing wholesale, and wouldn't teach his downline what to do using "tools" such as tapes, cd's, or functions. Affiliate marketing would be his only "tool". The "quixtar only" diamond is better than every one else because they didn't fall for the AMO tools scam. All the "quixtar only" diamond does is waive his magic wand and makes only certain cool people rich.
the "quixtar only" diamond is a baited open ended question, designed as an insult.
Because after seeing some of the responses to my question of 'how many "Amway only" diamonds were there in 2004?' I get responses like- thats irrelavant(sp?) We are not discussing RTW..stuff like that.
So Quixtar can be the same as Amway in one insult, but be very different in another insult...clever...
The critics know that Quixtar IBO's can have Amway IBO's in their downlines don't they? so the "quixtar only" diamond question is irrelevant.
See df aka troll, I do learn certain things hanging around this message board...
well df you thought I'd never answer your questions about my investments. Well you are wrong again. Real Estate. And I can tell you I have doubled, tripled and quadripled my returns in as little as a year.
I can assure you I would never, NEVER be in this position without the Quixtar business.
emminemm: congratulations on your investments, but I fail to see the point. Whether you are good at investing or not doesn't really have anything to do with whether people are getting taken advantage of in "the business". Just curious, have you been in longer than 5yrs?
Michael: I would think the term Quixtar only diamond would be obvious. Maybe I can explain it more simply. Someone gets in right after or as Quixtar begins. They would have effectively been in for 6 years. At the bare minimum 5 years. Are they diamond yet? Is anyone that started then a diamond now? Now the onus is not on ex-ibos to come up with a name, but those that are trying to prove the validity of the system. Remember we do not have to prove anything, we are free. We are trying to get you guys to think accurately or at least come to terms with what you are still involved with.
tony: I’m sorry but you do ‘tapespeak.’ Your arguments and analogies come from tapes and functions. Your upline would be very proud. But those are not the ideas you had before you were in the business. Hopefully you have not lost too much of your identity and can regain it if and when you decide to leave the business.
eagle:
"your just pissed because im right and you know it"
- What are you nuts? We’re the ones that are free. How are you right, my situation improved when I left the business. Why would I go back to that? You are either a troll or a fool.
I still have not heard a rebuttle as to what i wrote earlier. I have been in for 2 years, but have only been active for just over a year and am looking 7500 in the face and being profitable. That's awesome that your situation im proved, but i still dont see it being as good as a diamonds or an emeralds situation. i got in while going to school thinking that i would make about 50-60 grand a year my first year out being an engineer, but i found out that the average engineer 5 years out was only making 35K. I can tell you that if i were to get out i would be sucessful in anything i do because of the success principals that i developed and were taught to me inside the business.
and by the way have you gone diamond without tools? if you have i would say that i wouldn't be here talking to you, but since you haven't i would suggest he listens to somone who is already successful. TONY if you dont want what this guy has in life dont listen to him. listen to somone who has what you want in life.
i have a question for ya. what is the one thing that all the people who didn't go diamond or emerald have in common?
You make a big deal about listening only to the ones who have "made it", whatever you think "it" is. It's fine to want to emulate those who have what you want, but what are they saying? When you listen to the speakers at the rallies, or on tape/cd, are they telling you to get a bunch of people buying tapes/cd's, books and function tickets from you, or are they telling you to keep BUYING those things from THEM? The diamond lifestyle may or may not be what it's presented to be, but look at the compensation levels listed on your SA4400. That's not bad money at diamond, maybe living in a decent house in a good school district with a used mercedes for you and a minivan for the wife, but it's not "walking the beaches of the world" money.
That kind of money comes from YOU buying "bsm" from them. If they're telling you to buy the stuff rather than to sell it, they're not telling you how they made their money, how they got where they are. It's "do as I say, not as I do" until you wake up or run out of money to give them. And remember, you don't have to be qualified as diamond by quaxtar in order to speak as one once you've been one. Buy six legs up to platinum for six months, and after that you can drop back to a measly silver for all your LOA cares, as long as you play the kingpins' game they'll let you feed at the bsm trough.
And what about that diamond lifestyle? Has your upline ever suggested you "fake it til you make it" to impress your downline and prospects? Ever seem ironic that you are HIS downline? Just how do you know when that guy has quit faking it? Maybe yours hasn't told you this personally, but I didn't just pull that phrase out of my butt. It's a pretty common doctrine in mlm. We've got diamonds out there selling off their mansions and crap because they can't maintain the illusion anymore. Hmm.
My dad is a district manager and is not in quixtar and i got to talking to him about everything in the business including making it appear that you are doing well"faking it til you make it if you will" And he completley agrees. He even said that he does it. It is a general practice of leaders in anything, they dont want their followers to see the bad stuff because then they might not be as effective as a leader.
For instance, do you think the president fakes the fact that he is calm and collected when stuff is going down. do you think that if he appeard to be frantic and worried it would be a very good thing for the american people.
No im not lying about being eagle, i have personally regestered 14 people and am over 10 deep in at least 2 legs. And by the way i am only 21, if i can do it anyone can.
"If you had the chance to sit in and listen to donald trumph and ask him questions about how he got to where he is, or if you could pay from some audio CD's by him on how he got to where he is, would you do so if you wanted to get into business for yourself. I dont see anything wrong with buying some CD's and going to functions. and by the way I see nothing wrong with listening to people who know how to put the business together" from earlier.
Yes i do make money i make on average 1000 a month my best month was 1300.
Yes they do tell me to listen to tapes and they tell my downline to listen to tapes. I know for a fact that tapes have kept me in business when i wasn't really doing very much, and a Rally tape actually got me to start building the business, and that was the best $8.25 (wow that's a lot of money) i have ever invested.
I have no idea who tony is. Nor who's goup he is in. I was actually wanting to check and see if there was much online about mike weachter because i know when there is, he is starting to make a big impact.
sorry let me clarify, he is a district manager of wendys. i forgot to say who he is district manager for. He also beleives that as long as somone else is writing your paycheck you will never get buy.
Hey Eagle,
How about giving us the proof of your earlier claim about BWW creating the second most millionaires behind microsoft.
It doesn't even sound right to you anymore does it? Stop and think for a moment. How many millionaires do you know of in BWW? How many millionaires do you know of in the NFL? The PGA? Who invested in the stock market?
Still believe it? What else do you believe?
bww has been around for 35 yrs give me a bit and i will find it. and another difference between bww and the NFL is that anyone who wants to can succeed in BWW while it isn't that way in the NFL
Bystander - you say that my upline would throw a banana peel in my path to make me slip up and fail if I wasn't buying CDs, cause Thats where they really make there money! Thats got to be one of the stupidest things I've ever heard!
Weren't you around when I talked about a check from my upline Diamond which was for $124,000 in 1 MONTH!! That Wasn't from tool $ - it was just from QUIXTAR!!!!
And then you say $150,000 a year is decent, "minivan and used Mercedes" decent, but not "walking on the beaches". Guess what Einstein, it IS when the corp. is sending you to Peter Island, and then Hawaii for Diamond Club - I think THAT qualifies as "walking on the beaches"!! Pull your head out of your @ss, and then insert your foot in your mouth!!
Your new name is byebye-stander! :D
This ought to be good. Take your time Eagle.
Amway is not the biggest creator of millionaires in the world, Microsoft is, they have made 3300 millionaires. Amway is second with 2200 millionaires (net ...
www.amquix.info/feedback/IBOs_funnystuff.html - 54k - Cached - Similar pages
"SUCK ON THAT A ONE TIME!" Paully Shore....lol
http://www.amquix.info/feedback/IBOs_funnystuff.html
That was from a fellow site like yours.
way to make your self look like an A-hole.
wow 2200 millionaires, i'll bet all of them are broke now like you say they are. im sure all of them have sold their estates and are living in a van down by the river!
If the money isn't as good as you say it is, then how have i seen a check for 86000 to my upline emerald from quixtar, and how has joe markiwicz retired his parents his wifes parents and bought a 360MODENA with cash.
Dont challeng a winner unless you know you can win.
"This ought to be good. Take your time Eagle.
Posted by: jason at July 19, 2005 04:19 PM "
Eagle, You can't be for real. Do you see the word "funnystuff" at the end of the link you posted? Hmmm wonder what that refers to? And that is your source? You're a winner alright!
Shag could you please give Eagle his rebuttal?
go to the link that is a fact that they posted
not something they are making fun of, they are saying the funny thing is when people say that it is the number one creator of millionaires. Check the info i give you before you make any assumptions. OH GREAT ONE
Yeah, I was around for that, and you were around when I showed how those few big checks (the same few of which get shown around over and over) totally skew that $115/mo mean way up, meaning the average plugged-in victim gets even less a month. Those big checks don't prove what a great opportunity it is for YOU, quite the contrary, and given the one time bonuses etc, hardly represent a consistent income. You still need to see a P/L statement or schedule C.
So a handful (a puny number, whatever it is) of these diamonds get to walk TWO beaches on the corp's dime. Nice little perq, but you're applying selective understanding to the "walking the beaches of the world" metaphor. You know good and well they're talking about "lifestyles of the rich and famous" money, not "got all the bills paid this month" money. But then, having the bills paid this month doesn't impress the starry-eyed flunkies and get them charging function tickets on a credit card because a check would bounce.
So this guy "retired" his and his wife's parents (who were probably about to anyway) and bought whatever the heck you're babbling about. Did he at least send you a thank-you card for your part in buying it for him? I'm not sure, but I'm thinkin' scamway/quaxtar haven't paid out enough bonus money in their entire history that if 2200 people divvied it up there would be a million for each. Certainly not if you take out what they've paid to everyone else. Now, if you get into the bsm pyramids, MAYBE there COULD have been that many people to have accumulated a million, but just having had it pass through your hands doesn't count, and these guys don't act like big savers.
Here's a napkin, eagle, you need to wipe some drool...
You know what else skews the 115 a month the 80% that dont regester anyone, like i said earlier.
Her dad was a dentist, in a dying down, it took her dad 3 years to accept the house that joe gave him because he didn't want them to retire him, he had too much pride as a dentist, but he failed.
you can stop talking about how i helped pay for is modena because i dont care i got knowledge for the money which is in return going to help me with my business.
Why dont you take off your black robe and let people go after a dream if they want to.
I think you are an ex-ibo, who quit or maybe did something really wrong and your upline asked you to get out and you are bitter about it. I might be wrong though.
There is nothing wrong with what we do and everyone who wants to can do it. Unfortunatly though the majority of the people who try it dont have the constitution finish it off. It's sad, but that's the way it is.
You know why you didn't succede, its because you QUIT. That about how simple it is. You cant succede in anything if you QUIT it. Some of the stuff you are talking about might be going on out side of the winters group, but i have seen and know for a fact that things are the way that my upline says it is.
I gotta give props to Eagle for the "Suck on that onetime!" paully shore refrnce and the Chris Farley "van down by the river line" - funny stuff! Hey Eagle, i'm on Joe M's team too! Good to have another ibo on here. I really should be leaving soon - wasted like 2-3 months on here. Seeing some critbots leave and then have to make same arguements to new ones.
Congrats for going Eagle!
Oh, btw, Joe got his Modena b4 I got in, so none of it was from ME bybye-stander!
And no, his parents were'nt about to retire, they were about to MOVE for a job "restructuring" and his dad was laid off by Kodak. So he gave them some land next to theirs and built them a 3400 sq ft house, and pays them to be grandma & grandpa! Because he can!
bystander,
You got a point. If there are several that could be "quixtar only" diamonds and they prooved their claims, what would that do for the critic? Would you praise the "quixtar only" diamond, or would you point out that they are a "tools" diamond? Thats why I think the question is open ended.
Imran, have you seen this month's achieve magazine? The gala's are featured as Founder's executive Diamonds!
Joe M. is going to qualify as a DOUBLE at this next FED.
Because Mike Weachter is going diamond.
Nah, I didn't quit, I never fell for it in the first place. First time I saw the plan, my friend & I pretty well blew out the whole showing with our mathematical & logical questions, but that was just questions. Second time, it pretty well smacked me in the face how blatantly impossible it would be for more than the infinitesimally few at the pointy end of the pyramid to profit, if, as I was told outright, there was no selling (of products).
Now, notice I don't say that nobody ever shows a profit, or even gets rich. However, it's a very tiny portion, and as long as "buy from yourself and teach others to do the same" is the operating principle, that proportion is inevitably constant. And VERY tiny. A manufacturer may offer 100% satisfaction guarantee on a product. Does anyone manufacture a product with 0% defects? Of course not, but close enough as makes no odds, and they'll offer that guarantee. The rate of success in your endeavor, by contrast, is so small to be as bad or worse than that product's failure rate, SO, I wouldn't have any hesitation to offer you a 100% dissatisfaction guarantee in quaxtar, though you're on your own getting your money back. After all, I didn't get you into it.
Now, that $115/month is the "average" (actually the mean vs the median, check out the difference) of "active" "IBO". People who ARE doing SOMETHING, though maybe not much. They're in a dilemma: raise the threshold of "active" too much and the "IBO" activity rates look bad, lower it too much and performance levels look even worse than they do already. The people who never sign anyone up? It's not always from lack of trying. It's anecdotal, but there are stories galore of people knocking themselves out for YEARS, doing everything they're told to the letter, and... nothing. Then again, a lot of those "success" stories are anecdotal as well. As are the sob stories of failed dentists (just a thought).
The whole point about "quaxtar only diamonds" is to question the rate of new people moving up to the pointy end. That's all. To say that people who are joining are not indeed having the results implied by the "2-5 year plan". That it's the same guys year after year being worshipped, and upward mobility is very limited. Far be it from me to express admiration for any of them, even though they may have got themselves a considerable income stream, because in my considered opinion they're doing it fraudulently.
Shouldn't you guys be stmbling around like zombies in Best Buy or someplace trying to get someone to watch you drawing circles instead of here making fools of yourselves? Bathroom walls!
Im not going to say this because it is self gratifying im going to sayit to prove you a point. Im 21 and there is about a 90% chance that i will take at least 3 legs to go diamond with me, that means emerald qualification in feb. Although i do have 6 growing legs.
And if the only research you have done is on the internet and not actually trying it you never know if you would have succeded, but by the mental attidude you have i dont think you could have done it anyways.
It must feel great getting proved wrong by a 21 year old huh?
Mikebot: How can you even show your face here. You are a two time loser, between the NASCAR store and the IT degree, you are simply chump change.
Embot: I am interested to see how your AmQuix success is tied to your real estate success. I am still unclear on how you did so well in your real estate investments.
Care to clarify that??
Eagle-bot: You are fu_king moron. Plain and simple. You are just another ambot spouting unsubstantiated claims. You are like all the -bots that came before....
...and they all leave here crying.
And I am at work. I do that at chucky cheeses anyways...(MJ)
try to make me cry fool
Oh, and another thing Eagle-bot
Engineers, on average, make more than $30k / year. As a graduate from an engineering school, I can tell you that for sure.
I made over $30k when I graduated over 14 years ago!
Judging your intelligence simply from your posts, you obviously didn't have the brains to make in the real world of engineering.
Eagle, all you have to do to shut us up is to show your schedule c's here.
No one else has the cojones to do so.
Maybe you can blaze the trail, you big leader!!! fIRE up! dO it !!!
No anchoives on my Chucky Cheese pizza please.
yeah that was over 14 yrs ago when engineers weren't a dime a dozen, when i was at K-state they gave us a print out as to what the average engineers made in every type of engineering, and the average 5 years out was 34K
When i was in high school i thought it would be 50-60k like my brother was making, but he is in his mid 30's and he went through the program just like you did when engineers weren't a dime a dozen, so do your research before you say something like that.
Eagle,
Thanks for the source of your 'Fact'. Did you notice that what you linked to was a list of quotes from people just like yourself all saying pretty much the same thing without anything to back it up? That's what the page is all about. No distributor/IBO has ever been able to back this quote up. But they're all great at quoting it.
You're definitely plugged in 'Eagle' Try again.
how do i show them to you, e-mail, fax or what?
What kind of engineering are you talking about, janitorial engineering.
That is the only thing K-state is good at producing! Ha!
Even civil engineers can expect over $30k.
MEs, MSEs, and EEs and expect to surpass that.
I'll bring the data to shut you up.
Scan em and email em to QBLOG.
This is gonna be good........
Do they have a scanner at Chucky Cheese.
no i dont have a scanner here at sprint
and the average electrical engineer from k-state only makes 34 5 yrs out. that's why i got in business
This is from MSN career center:
"According to NACE's Spring 2005 Salary Survey, the top 10 jobs for grads and their corresponding salaries are:
Accounting (Private) - $44,564
Management Trainee - $35,811
Teaching - $29,733
Consulting - $49,781
Sales - $37,130
Accounting (Public) - $41,039
Financial/Treasury Analysis - $45,596
Software Design and Development - $53,729
Design/Construction Engineering - $47,058
Registered Nurse - $38,775"
There are barely any degree positions that pay less than $30k.
But, if you were dumb enough to not do the research on engineering, you are definately dumb enough to fall into the trap you got yourself into now.
I have family at Sprint.
They all have scanners.
Liar.
the average grad from KU makes 24.9 and like i said from k-state
im not on campus fool, i share an office with 4 people
you guys can have fun working your jobs and fitting in with the 98%(unless you are doing something else outside of your job) I am still doing what i have promised my wife i would do and that is to retire her.
when you are lying in bet at 63 yrs old trying to figure out how you are going to retire think about me and this conversation and think about where i am.
Im out. GO DIAMOND!
Another ambot puzzy, scared away.
I retired your wife last night. I wasn't thinking about retirement when I was in bed with her last night.
Send those Schedule Cs when you can find a scanner.....I am sure there HAS to be one in your office.
Eagle,
Let us know when you actually do something. Not your upline, or some other guy you saw on a stage, you.
Until then, everything you say is BS, plain and simple. Remember we have heard all the big promises before so we're not impressed.
I feel bad for some people that are still in the business, but in your case, I think you deserve it.
Have fun going diamond, the operative word, going, never arriving.
But then who knows you might do well in this business, you sound like an ass.
i sent you what i could an by the way my wife would never settle for someone who wasn't going to bring her home, and by the way we are both chirstians and i really dont like what you said about her. and i would bet that if you met her you would feel really bad, because she is one of the sweetest most innocent girls i have ever met.
What did you send? To whom did you send it to.
Eagle, you do a lot of brash talking. I suggest that if you can't "take it", then you shouldn't "dish it".
If you are christian, then I suggest you keep the lying to a minimum. It is kind of against the Commandments.
Wow - good showing for the critbots!
In 1st place we've got "Classy" df with the "I retired your wife last night" comment,
And in a close 2nd place we've got "The Encourager" DannyD with "have fun going Diamond... never arriving."
There you have it folks, the critbots continue tough with their relentless insults and downgrading remarks.
Stay tuned for Dawson telling Joey that she doesn't have what it takes to be a platinum! :)
everything that i have said is exactly true. i have not lied to you once, unless i mis quoted pauly shore, which i think i did, i think it's "suck on this a one time!!"
That's rich coming from you Tony, the Sultan of Sweetness.
When you dish out crap, don't be surprised if we knock it back at you. Don't expect us to lie there and take it.
Hey Dan, go back to the archives around April and read my 1st several posts. I didn't call anyone names, or say, "you're all losers who just quit" - I simply stated my arguments for the business.
It wasn't until people started calling ME 'moron" or other names and telling me "this is a scam and you're promoting a cult" that I started giving it back!
So don't say I'm dishing out crap. And how bout Eagle - he got on here and was just pro-quixtar, didn't call you all names. And then YOU danno told him to shove it up his tapehole.
Sultan of Sweetness - I like that, if you really knew me, its ironic how much that applies, but you only get to see this side of me. I've always said all here I wish people the best at whatever they do. But then theres critbots like you that say "you'll never be a Platinum, or you're gonna quit in 6 months!", etc. And all I ask is why? Why do you have to act like that? Why do you have to shit on someone's goals? Even if you think it doesn't work, why would you tell someone else that they can't hit Platinum when maybe they can? Why not just say - it'll be tougher than you think or only a small % do it. Why say "you'll never do it" - "you're just gonna quit". Thats just bullshit - the truth is YOU never did it. I still am.
Tony>Hey Dan, go back to the archives around April and read my 1st several posts. I didn't call anyone names, or say, "you're all losers who just quit" - I simply stated my arguments for the business.
It wasn't until people started calling ME 'moron" or other names and telling me "this is a scam and you're promoting a cult" that I started giving it back!
So don't say I'm dishing out crap. And how bout Eagle - he got on here and was just pro-quixtar, didn't call you all names. And then YOU danno told him to shove it up his tapehole.
TD>You are lumping all critics together, though and "giving it back" to all critics and not just specific ones. I haven't been posting lately because, frankly, I got sick and tired of hearing the same stuff I heard when I was in the business and needed a break.
Eagle DID say some rude stuff in his first post(as unknown). It's hard NOT to take that as an insult and then throw it right back at him. He did not present himself as "just pro-Q", Tony.
You have to realize that many of us have swung from where you are (fired-up, excited) to realizing that we were lied to. Some of us are VERY angry about this, especially those of us who were in for a long period of time.
A-There's an old cat saying: "If you're gonna eat tuna, expect bones."
B-There's an old human saying: "If you're gonna talk garbage, expect pain."
Nice attempt at a smear campaign Tonybot.
You forgot that your new buddy, Eagle-bot dropped this doozie:
Eagle>"suck on this a one time!!"
Oops you forgot about that one.
Like I said, nice try with the smear. If you really want to see a smear, I have some nice video of your momma and my 'happy ending' last night. Wanna see that.
I'll post that right after Eagle-bot sends in his Schedule Cs to QBlog.
Chances are, neither will materialize.....
I was going to talk about Quixtar diamonds but now this thread got too long.
Embot:
How about this one:
Embot: I am interested to see how your AmQuix success is tied to your real estate success. I am still unclear on how you did so well in your real estate investments
'
Care to comment on that????????
As far as I am concerned, the "System" is a scam and you are promoting a cult. Even if you are doing so unknowingly. I don't think most of you pro-system people are morons, but the night is young and you still have a chance to prove me wrong.
I don't want to speak for others but a lot of us are pissed off about the manipulation that went on in the various systems and still harbor resentment to those that actively promote it. So don't expect a lot of hugs and don't get all sunshine and lolipops on us. I know full well what people in the business say about those that don't get in, or quit.
df,
I know your comments are just a bait, but who says I was a "failure" at my nascar store? I just said I sold out last year. Selling out of a business doesn't make you a failure dude. Putting other people down and name calling makes you a failure.
go troll somewhere else...
Quit assuming things too
it makes an A$$ out of U and ME..
You were a failure at the nascar store. Admit it. Simple intuition says this:
-The IT dork thought business was easy,
-Took out some mall space to start a nascar store based on persnal interest, not an actual business plan
-Store does some business from toothless nascar idiot fans, not enough to sustain business.
-IT dork sells the store to another idiot or just closes doors
-Convinced that business is hard, IT dork looks for another get-rich-quick idea.
-A/Q loser approaches IT dork
-The rest is history....
See, it isn't that hard to predict. I may not have guessed ALL of it, but you gotta admit, I got MOST of it right!!!
Do you know what a cult is dan?
Eaglebot:
Do you know what a scanner is?
Do you know what a Schedule C is?
Have you scanned the Schedule C into QBLog yet????
i actually dont know what a Schedule C is and i e-mailed my PV statments instead into the email that is in the contact section.
i dont have access to a scanner.
i can get you those and i can also tell you that i am sponsoring leg 14 on friday and it is already 3 deep and about 4 wide in the deepest part.
df,
Like I said, never assume things. It makes you look foolish. I know you'll never agree with me just because your a message board troll. Always talking negative. I don't have to own up anything to you. just because someone pissed in your coffee doesn't mean you have the right to piss in mine!! Offer something constructive. And please don't offer the classic get a job like you got speech. Yeah I am a dork for responding to snerts like you.
Mike-bot:
You haven't proven otherwise...I think I got you nailed!!!
Nice store, IT dork. I have no idea why it would fail.....
The only question is, are you a skinny nerd or a comic-book fatso dork ?!?!?
HEY DF do you know what a cult is?
Eagle,
Ye best be believing in cult's..
yer in one now..
der dee der..
The system is a cult. Do some research on cults and you will see. I'm not saying Quixtar is a cult, just the systems. And no it's not a religious cult. And please do not use the pat answer the upline always gives out regarding the cult issue. Use your own brain and look it up.
A religion or religious sect generally considered to be extremist or false, with its followers often living in an unconventional manner under the guidance of an authoritarian, charismatic leader.
The followers of such a religion or sect.
A system or community of religious worship and ritual.
The formal means of expressing religious reverence; religious ceremony and ritual.
A usually nonscientific method or regimen claimed by its originator to have exclusive or exceptional power in curing a particular disease.
Obsessive, especially faddish, devotion to or veneration for a person, principle, or thing.
The object of such devotion.
An exclusive group of persons sharing an esoteric, usually artistic or intellectual interest
per dictionary.com
i would have to say that i dont see how anything in the system that i am in resembles what the deffinition is.
I am obsessive about loving my wife and am devoted to my wife, does that mean that our relation ship is a cult?
Eagle>Obsessive, especially faddish, devotion to or veneration for a person, principle, or thing.
Exactly.
thank you. I am very happy to be in a cult then, because I love my wife very much and am glad that I am not in a regular relationship with my wife because a regular relationship has a 50+% failure rate.
If you say that the system is a cult, i would take a bullet for my upline, he is my best friend in the world, and i would go out of my way to do something for him.
The principles that the winters team stands for are right in line with the principles that my church instilled in me. So if you want to say that i am i am very proud to be involved in such a thing.
but i can also tell you that my relationship with my wife is better now that it has ever been, and my relationship with God is better now than it has been.
EAGLE
Eagle,
Been there, said that.
I got involved with Amway/Quixtar 12 years ago, when I was about your age. It took me 11 years to realize that I might have been ready to take a bullet for my upline, but they weren't prepared to do the same for me. Believe me when I say that I know exactly where you are coming from, I said and did the same things for 11 years, I was sure I was going to be Diamond.
Notice that the definition said "obsessive...devotion". It is not healthy to be obsessively devoted to anything. I'm devoted to my Husband, but I'm not obsessed with him, there is a big difference. That took a long time, and a lot of pain, for me to learn. Don't make the same mistake with your wife or with Quixtar.
df, Eagle told you guys to "suck on this a one time" After you guys laid into him. i never said he never said anything "mean" - I said he came on pretty level-headed and then got blasted.
Speaking of getting blasted, you need to take TD's advice "if you're gonna talk garbage, expect pain."
Thats what I thought when I read your "smear comment". I actually started laughing and thought "ah, if this guy had any idea what I could do to him." Dude, you are so lucky the net is anonymous, if we met in a dark alley, you would be getting pounded like you did those 2 nights you spent in lock-up! Someone would have to call 241-KIDS cause you'd get molested! You'd think I was Michael Jackson! HAH! I really wanted a grudge match with prasad, but now I think I'd take you. Nothing perminant, just a little temperary pain! A few bruises, maybe a broken nose or elbow. just something to knock a little sense into you - I'd hate to see you talk smack to the wrong guy at a bar one night.
But you probably don't do that, do ya? You're probably a little 5'8, 155lb piece of shit punk that only talks smack on message boards. That's assuming you even have a penis - there is the far off chance that you're actually a little 14 yr old girl who found daddy's porn a little too early and now likes to act like a guy and talk filthy on message boards. Yea, you're a naughty little girl aren't you, tell us what you do to your brothers friends, you cum-guzzling gutter slut! Hahahaa! Ahhh...
I'm out!
Tony,
First off, please don't steal my cool quote for your very vile and disgusting diatribe. Do you even know what that quote is from?
Secondly, read "unknown" aka Eagle's first post, fairly insulting especially:
"So unless you have given your all your 100% to this business and actually tried it, I sugest you sit down shut up, go back to your job and say "yes boss, yes boss, kiss kiss kiss" for the rest of your life..."
How insulting to those of us who spent many years in this business. No, I will NOT sit down and shut up!
and
"He has a dream for a reason. Dont be pissed because you Pissed yours down the drain years ago"
Eagle got what he gave.
Tonybot:
Keep talking tough guy, you don't scare me.
You'll never get to me, physically nor mentally. I'm over here on the 'good side' of the screen, pulling in good coin and getting chumps like you riled up.
You're over there in your little TKD bathrobe furiously punching keys and losing money in a pyramid scam.
Those molesting comments weren't cool. I am sure that you think that was funny, as you are a peverted freak....
You have a lot of pent-up rage. Go break a 2x4 with your forehead, you big dummy.
Leave the good guys (like me) and the innocent (the children) alone!
TD, well then don't be insulted by his comment if it doesn't apply to you - he said "So unless you have given your all your 100% to this business and actually tried it, I sugest you sit down shut up"
So if you did try it, and you did give it your all- your 100%, then feel free to talk about it. But to those who never even TRIED it, or "signed up", but never Really "got started"... then he's saying: sit down and shut up! Thats the truth!
And his 2nd comment about pissing away a dream was in his 2nd post - ah, but I could really care - I'mnot gonna defend him, but i'll defend me - I came on here being civil, and all I got was 'you're a moron', and 'thats just tapespeak' and blahblahblah
And df, oh I'm sorry little fellah - did I get your panties in a bunch, want me to get the vagsil for ya? Don't worry about me, i'm not to riled up, I'm actually fighting back a smile. How funny that YOU tell me that some comments weren't cool - sorry you're unfamiliar with some smack talking expressions, like "I'd molest you"- it means I'd kick your ass, or you wouldn't stand a chance. Foom! right over your head.
Haha - you said pyramid scam - what a moron! How you doing your pyramid scam- thats Right your JOB! Thats the only pyramid scheme I'm in. My boss makes more than me, and his boss makes more than him, and so on and so on... GET a f#%kin CLUE! Keep pulling in that coin df, and keep pulling, and keep pulling, cause the second you stop pulling - so does your coin! Its called residual income my boy! And you ain't got none!
Hey can I break a 2x4 that I already have, or do I have to go out and buy it! uhthankyou!
I think you've been headbutting too many 2x4s already......better lay off that.
I've never heard your sick-perverted terminology. I have a lot of friends that do mixed martial arts and those dudes never spout of such inappropriate phrases.
I could introduce them to you. They'd teach you a good 'fisting' technique when they are busy making you their girlfriend.
But I digress....
I do make residual income. My investments (both in 401 and privately) continue to earn for me. So, I have those savings, my other investments in real estate and my continual income stream.
Its a great job. I love what I do and the people I work with. I am in the minority, I know, but I worked hard and smart to find it. I set my goals, made em and never let go. Wow, that's even more fired up than that lameass tapespeak you listen too.
I can't help it that I am paid and that I am happy. Hate all you want.
And I can't help it that I won't allow a bunch of flim-flam men come in and con a bunch of young, naive, or desperate people (most of which have no business experience) into joining their f-d up little fleecing operation.
You better look at the definition of a pyramid scheme. I get paid a set amount to perform a job function as it is set by a legally binding contract.
What you are doing in your little pyramid/cult is circulating money upline at the expense of those below you.
The FTC hasn't found your "business" to cross the line. But, as the focus moves from product to tools (as even your buddy Embot can attest to), then you better be nervous about that next investigation.
I suggest you drop that slice of pepperoni pizza (or do you like calzone?) and get your mind right....
Wow.
Looks like I've been missing quite a bit.
Tony - Exhalted Universe ruler of Tony, Inc. still hoping against hope that his rinky dink flim flam investment into his future will hang in there. Yes, everyone's job is a pyramid. Ever hear of promotion? Oh, it takes work. Never mind. Just keep gouting money for the functions, whining about how everyone who is already successful (like myself and df) don't have the freedom, which ironically, you never will either. Good luck with that, muffin.
Eagle: Nice of him to leave a bunch of comments about how he is going to be a billionaire at 24. Should leave you lots of cash to pop your zits. No scanners at sprint eh? I call bulls**t.
Mike-bot. What can I say? I've never thought watching a bunch of race cars go round and round was normal behavior, and it seems to be right up your alley. You are probably a smart guy compared to most of them.
I'm still out of town, but we'll see u all soon.
Good work DF, you almost made me piss my pants I was laughing so hard!
Wow, well Tony you proved me wrong, you're not just a moron, but a dumbass if you think that.
You need to get help. You obviously have made an emotional business decision and I hope you don't hurt too many others in the process of you "building" your business.
So do you have to be an ass to be in your LOS, or is that some new thing that you think "real business people" do?
I guess it's your turn to talk about how you want to kick my ass now. After you are done getting your ass beat by DF then you can try with me.
oh and Eagle:
"If you say that the system is a cult, i would take a bullet for my upline "
Thanks for proving my point.
So you system guys:
I was hoodwinked in this business when there really wasn't much outside information, no amquixinfo, no QuixtarBlog, no Merchants of Deception, no court information available online. I didn't know the truth until much later. What's your excuse?
You know what, I don’t really care. I’m sure this is not going to lift the fog from your eyes. “You have already made up your mind, you would say. Don’t confuse me with the facts� Its probably not going to make any difference in the long run. It’s not like I have to convince you or I’ll be forced to get back. LOL wouldn’t that suck. It just made me feel a little better that your wild ramblings didn’t go unanswered
"i would take a bullet for my upline, he is my best friend in the world, and i would go out of my way to do something for him."
He was best man in my wedding and i was a groomsman in his wedding, dont tell me that you wouldn't take a bullet for your best man, that is only if you guys are still friends,(i say that so you dont go off and say no i wouldn't when in all actuallity you havn't seen him in 10 yrs)
If quixtar and any of it's affialiates were doing somthing wrong would big name companies like IBM, BassPro, circuit city, barnes & Noble, omaha steaks, and microsoft be in business with them. Dont you think that if the Tools side of the business was illegal it would have been shut down by now considering how much the diamonds make off of it. And by the way we dont hide that we talk about it in the plan just the same way that we talk about the PV scale.
No i dont have a scanner atwork, im sure there is one in my building, but i have only been working in my building for about a month and have only really seen one floor, so if you want to come and find a scanner in my building i would be more than happy to scan my stuff for ya.
Eagle-bot>"i actually dont know what a Schedule C is and i e-mailed my PV statments instead into the email that is in the contact section. i dont have access to a scanner."
If this guy doesn't know what a Sched. C is, how can he know to scan it in???
Sh_t, this guy can't even find a scanner in his hometown.
What makes me think this guy is aimlessly making claims he can't back up....
...gee, I wonder.........
Df,
I would just like to congradulate you on being happy with your job, life, investments.
Also, thanks rocket... DF actually renewed my interest in the nascar biz. I am setting up a new blog and going through the leftover collectible inventory I have and possibly getting back into that business. I already have two suppliers for merchandise lined up and I will be making a formal announcement at my blog once I have several articles lined up. I'll keep you informed. I am also going to create a "farcial crew chief" modeled after Qblog's farcial help desk. I hope you have a safe trip.
I'd take a bullet for my country, and maybe some family members, but I don't think anyone else.
Those companies you listed want to sell their products to ibos. They are not involved with the marketing plan, the system, or even really quixtar. A better term for them would be vendors not partners.
A Schedule C is a tax form used for self employment, so if you have been in longer than a year, you had better be filling one out.
http://www.irs.gov/businesses/small/article/0,,id=129520,00.html
http://www.irs.gov/faqs/faq12-8.html
If you don't have a scanner, go to Kinkos, it's a couple bucks, takes a few mins and you're done. Or buy one for $50.
Unfortunately people that do immoral or illegal things don't always get caught. Quixtar/Amway has danced the line for a while. If you read what went on with the first tangle with the FTC (i won't post it here, you should be able to find out it more in the forum section or other sites or from the FTC itself) you will see that Q/A is not really keeping their end of the bargin.
Michael,
Let us know when it's up I might be interested in some stuff.
Mikebot- Thanks for the good wishes, even though I highly doubt they are heart felt.
Good luck in liquidating your nascar gear.
I am not sure if you what I said to motivate you to get rid of it -- the thought of excess inventory and outstanding debt should probably be your primary motivators.
But, if I helped, then I am glad to be of service.
Here's an idea: maybe you can throw in a free motivational tape or cd with every purchase. Better yet, why not sell the tapes or cds.....
Oh wait, you aren't allowed to resell your tools! That's right!
Then I guess, the I in IBO really shouldn't stand for 'independent'
Again, good luck in liquidating your nascar crap. Maybe you can get enough $$$ to move out of your parent's basement.
DF what is your email, i copy and paste my PV statments to you.
The closest thing i have to a scanner on my floor is a big office copy machine. I could have just pretened that i knew what they were and said that we just didn't have one, but no i didn't, you should at least respect the fact that i admited to not knowing what a schedule C is, and if you cant do that, then this is pointless banter.
I can obviously see that your mind thinks stuff through too much, Thomas Edison tried thousands of times to make a light bulb, people asked him how he felt after failing thousands of times to make the light bulb. He said that all of those attempts weren't failures, he said that he found thousands of ways not to make the light bulb.
Yeah there might be some things about the system that people dont like, but what i like about it is that it is exactly in line with what i am called to do, put BUTTS in seats sunday morning, and live in prosperity.
If you tell me that you truly beleive you are doing what you are called to do by your creator then I have no room to say that you should be doing something else.
We are called to spread christs love throughout the world. When I was in highschool i new that i was supposed to go into ministry, but i didn't know what feild.
Then when i saw 3000+ people get saved i knew that this was what i was supposed to be doing.
Tell me what can be wrong about that.
Eaglebot:
Pal, if you think I am giving you my personal contact information, then you are smoking crack.
Send your stuff into QBlog so we all can review it.
The fact that you don't know what a Schedule C is lends me to think that you are very new to the business (less than 1 year).
But if you need to be commended for being honest, then I'll commend you.
Pat, Pat, Pat -- right there on your back.
Looking forward to your statments. More later on your fundmentalist religeous+business views later...
i did, i sent it already.
I have people do my taxes and i just sign where they tell me too.
df, why can't you open an account at yahoo or hotmail and just use it for purposes here??
Are you really that unable to figure that out??????
Or what is your other reason, genius, (or should I say phoney) ???
Embot, my relations with you (phonies) doesn't get past these threads.
I know that if I lay down with you dogs, then I'll wake up with the fleas.
So, you ambots are kept at an arm's distance.
The better question is, why do you guys want to take these debates off-line ??
Why not put your facts and figures and wild claims out there for the entire public to enjoy?
Speaking of which Embot, you haven't provided much detail on your big real estate venture. Care to share with the group????
Eaglebot>"I have people do my taxes and i just sign where they tell me too."
Now that sounds like a real independent business owner...way to take a vested interest.....
Eaglebot--I look forward to seeing your accountant's work.
You are a real big talker, I'd like to see you lay out your finances. Debt, inflow, outflow, left over.
You talk like you are a millionaire that is debt free. Why not show us why you talk the way you do.
He talks the way he does to you, because he is not an imbecile, and you are.
ie. "The closest thing i have to a scanner on my floor is a big office copy machine. I could have just pretened that i knew what they were and said that we just didn't have one, but no i didn't..."
Don't know what a scanner is, yet you are on the verge of a breakthrough of the greatest online business known to man?
Good for you. Maybe Mike-Bot could use a flunky to pack up his old Nascar crap when he sells it on Ebay. He'll be able to preach good things to you AND you could actually make money outside your job.
On the positive side at least you hav a job, I guess.
Good for you.
Eaglebot>"You are a real big talker"
Really, where is the big talk. Nothing could be further from the truth!
I laid out a plan that is consistent with the average return of the s&P500. These are modest consistent gains, that when compounded, will add up to big earnings.
I am well on my way, but I am not there yet. I never claimed to be.
If anyone has been doing the big talking, you might look at some of your earlier posts in this thread.
That was big talk...that got smaller and smaller as more and more FACTS were requested of you....
...it's not a big surprise; in fact it is very predictable for you & your kind -- so many of you are sooo similar.
Which is why you are called 'ambots'.
Can't wait to see you put me in my place with your facts and figures.....
What big talk are you talking about i said that i make on average a grand a month, how is that big talk. the only thing that i can see you thinking as big talk is looking silver in the face. I have sent you a copy of my PV inquiry, but no one has checked it out or you have and dont want to admit it.
df buddy,
I have been out of my parents house now for a few years...
Also, it was a heartfelt compliment dude. Do you have to be so angry?
Dan,
I should be ready by the end of next week.
I'll post an article over at instantfranchise blog announcing it...
df, with all your paranoia, I bet you work for Alticor in a corporate position. You seem to know so much about the business despite being shown the plan only once 18 years ago. Strange...
Oh, and you only asked me what kind of investment could have beat yours. So I told you. So now you need to know why and how? That wasn't part of the original challenge.
I do know a lot, don't I Embot. I'm a quick study, which I have put to good use in my schooling and J-O-B.
Plus, all of you ambots sound the same, so it is very easy to dismantle your *identical* arguments time-and-time-again.
And, just as a FYI, I am not at Alticor. Tha's just a stupid accusation.
But I am glad to have had that clarified for you.
And, yes, I asked you WHAT type of investment you had that cosistently returned greater than 8-12%.
Your reluctance to reply with detail only speaks of your utter cowardice.
Its a typical/predictable/pathetic ambot- (non)response.
Or do you care to prove me wrong???
I certainly don't understand what sort of obsession you have with Quixtar, df. It's not as if you have any emotional or financial stake going on, nor personal experiences to relate of your time in the business, except for your being taken for the Grand Slam at Denny's or whatever the hell slop they served you there. And you're still obsessed about it!
That is unlike nearly everyone on here, either pro or con. So naturally you could also have been a disgruntled employee. Yeah, maybe some day your sorry a$$ will get laid off and you'll be forced to work at alticor, haha.
My utter cowardice? Hahaha I am still laughing at that one. I wanted to see if you even had the guts to approach me, but apparently you did not you coward. And guess what you were the only one who cared to know. No one else cares about it. It's boring. But... hahahaha... I am still wealthier than you!
First of all, let's state the true meaning of this blog. You all seem to have a beef with the knowledge bases (BWW, WWDB, etc.) and not with Quixtar. No one can argue the fact that Quixtar is a legitimate business setup who has partnerships with several Fortune 500 companies. You don't get recognized as the #1 online retailer of health and beauty products by outside publications by scamming products. Your problems lie in the training system that we IBOs use.
I don't know everyone's background in this blog, but I wonder how many of you actually own your own business/practice? I wonder how you all would feel if we started putting down your profession by the quality of some of the people in your line of work. I know that there are plenty of "ambulance-chasing" lawyers. And doctors who make their money from prescribing meds that people don't truly need. Oh, and let's not forget the CEOs who are getting caught committing major fraud. But you know what, I grew up in a family who owned their own small-business, and they ran their company with integrity and customers in mind. So when how I choose to run my business is questioned by the way a few others out there have faltered, I am disappointed. That said, back to the knowledge bases.
Yes, money is made from the tools system. Quite frankly, I'd be surprised if any of you were asked to develop a training system for your line of work that was going to be distributed by others in your field, that you would do it and not request any money from the whole project. If you would, you're not a business-minded individual.
I'm not sure of the breakdown between payment from both sources, and I don't really care. That's like telling a doctor that he shouldn't get paid for any surgeries he performs and the meds he subscribes. Or telling a business owner he's unethical to collect on two different lines of products he sells. Why, if you owned a pencil factory and an office supply store, would you put a brand of pencil you don't manufacture in your office supply store? I mean, realistically, these people have set up a business system that they basically double their income on and have taken advantage of free enterprise. You all sit here and argue over what appears to be an open and shut case. The IBOs make money off of both systems at certain levels and not everyone will ever make it to that level. Not every employee will get his crack at the CEO position and not every doctor will go to work at Duke Medical Center. There is a reason some people succeed and some don't. So let's cut the bull and realize that everyone has their own ambitions in life and in the end, it doesn't matter what you thought about me, but what I did for God and his mission.
C'mon guys. Nobody is trying to hurt anybody in the business. This is a business of helping people to grow. I think a lot of you are confused about what this business system is really about. I also think that a lot of business owners who are just getting started who might be a little ignorant give the business system a bad name. I have never told anyone in my downline that they will be a millionaire. On the contrary, I tell everyone that I can't guarantee them anything, but I will never give up on them. That is why I have such a strong business today. I will not speak ill of anyone in this blog or of any of their opinions. All of you clearly feel very strongly about what you are saying.
It is probably evident to all of you that I am very supportive of the business system as a whole. I will not try to convince you of the worthiness of it, but I will tell you that it has changed my life for the better. The training system has molded me into an individual with great integrity. Outside of this system, I don't believe I would be the confident and loving person that I am today. I believe that I could succeed in any business endeavor now as a result of my training and experience with this system.
Again, I don't wish to argue with any of you. I believe that you are all probably very nice people, and I wish you all the best. Also, I truly believe that each and every one of you are special, and with time, you would also be able to have a successful business. We were all created to do more than sit in an office or cubicle all day. I'm not saying you need to start your own business within this system, but do find some way to be truly happy. Find a passion and live it. Live life victoriously.
Best wishes and God bless you all.
Soooooooooooooo how many employees does it take for a manager to make 500,000? Take a ponder on that.. paying out pennies to make millions and nobody has free time.
You constantly shop at Wal-mart... their family is making millions, you're making nothing from your purchases.
In every profession there is success and failure and the problem with most people is they don't believe they can. Do you, do you really believe you could be a millionaire next month? next year? next decade? Really answer it... if the answer is no check your ambition level.
Does your job teach you to make money? Or try to save money by paying you less so they have more profit? Research here folks... your buying what you already buy and telling others to do the same. Education is just like going to get a cookbook, you can't learn to make filet mignon without reading a cookbook or talking to a chef, especially if you can't cook top ramen... you can't change your mindset to make millions without hearing from millionaires.
There's a few minor mistakes.
There are 340,000 IBOs according to Quixtar. Also, according to Quixtar 66% are considered "active."
So the total number of "active" IBOs is not 270K but 224,400.
Multiply that by .000076 and you get 17 diamonds rather than 21.
To be fair though, you should also take into account those above "diamond." Again, you can figure out how many there are with Quixtar's own data.
Diamonds 0.0076%
Founders Diamonds 0.0018%
EDC & up 0.0042%
So there's 17 "Diamonds," 4 "Founder's Diamonds," and 10 "EDC & up." For a total of 31 high "pins."
Divide 224,400 by 31 and you get 7238 "active" IBOs for each "Diamond and above" in Quixtar.
Posted by: lawDawg | July 13, 2005 3:33 PM