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July 13, 2005
Do The Math
By QBlog in Miscellaneous
A member of the Quixtar BLOG Forum recently posted a thought-provoking entry that analyzes the math of the Quixtar business. I made a few edits for grammar.
» From Let's Do The Math on a Direct Group
2004 commissions paid ($373,000,000) divided by average commission ($115/month x 12) = ($1,380)
Number of active IBOs (270,290) times the success rate of Diamonds (0.0076%)
Number of Diamonds (21) divided into number of "active" IBOs (270,290)
Number of IBOs per Diamond = (13,158)
That's 13,158 people making practically nothing. Of course the Diamond is only making about $149,942 before business expenses and taxes.
That's good money, but not exactly millionaire money. Gee, I wonder where that million dollar lifestyle comes from? Oh yeah, the 13,158 people below them throwing (conservatively) $200 a month into the tool system.
$200 x 12 x 13158 = $31,579,200.
NOW THAT'S MILLIONARE MONEY!
Now, after reading that analysis tell me what's right or wrong with it. Is the number of IBOs per Diamond off? If so, what should that number be? Keep in mind, most of the numbers in this analysis come straight from Quixtar.
Comments
Wow.
Powerful stuff.
But, "the facts don't matter" to ambots.
Remember?
Maybe these computations will jar an ambot cog or two and these guys will realize what they are truly involved in....
..or maybe it will fuel the greed, er dream, to become a tools kingpin....
..either way, the $ is in the tools.
Lawdawg,
Just where do you get the Diamond success rate of .000076? How are you computing that? That isn't coming from quixtar.
Yes, michael, it is coming from Quixtar.
http://web.archive.org/web/20030613171429/http://www.myildportal.com/leadership/leadershipdocs/profilesofsuccess.pdf
Check out the copyright at the bottom of the page (page 2 is where that .000076 number was obtained).
And the reason we can trust those numbers is that they are required by law to put them in there. From the FTC's opinion in "In Re Amway":
"It is further ordered, That the aforesaid respondents and their officers, agents, employees, representatives, members, successors, and assigns, directly or indirectly, in connection with inducing or seeking to induce the participation of any person in any distribution, sales, or marketing plan, in commerce, as 'commerce' is defined in the Federal Trade Commission Act, do forthwith cease and desist from . . .
Representing, by implication, by use of hypothetical examples, or otherwise, that distributors earn or achieve from such participation any stated amount of profits, earnings, or sales in excess of the average profits, earnings, or sales of all distributors in any recent year respondents may select, unless in conjunction therewith such average profits, earnings, or sales is clearly and conspicuously disclosed, or the percent of all distributors who actually achieved such stated profits, earnings, or sales in such year is clearly and conspicuously disclosed."
Hey Lawdawg,
How come you can't count for the 35 brand new(active) Diamonds in 2004 (according to achieve) and the 30(active) WWDB diamond couples at wwdb.biz?
ALso, Where are Bill and Peggy Britt's Diamonds? How bout the 100+ diamonds that re qualified from Leonard and Esther Kims Diamondship?
oops, thats 2004, not 1004
Mikey:
Those numbers represent the total qualifying pin percentages when the data was pulled. Do you think it has suddenly increased, even though the number of distributors has stayed exactly the same?
Doubt it. In any case, if you think Quixtar's data is wrong, the burden is now on you to prove it.
Remember, diamonds fall out of qualification just as fast as the qualify. That's what that stagnancy indicates - for 35 years, there has been NO NET GROWTH in North America for Amway/Quixtar.
As far as the Kim's, their diamonds would not be in Quixtar. They would be Amway and wouldn't be in North America.
How big is your Korean downline, Mikey? Are you prospecting in Korea and Russia? Or are you just prospecting in the States?
If it's the latter than you are a fool, because the north american market for this scheme was tapped out 35 years ago.
That's not me talking. That's Quixtar's own data and the market talking.
Sorry, but those are the facts.
An obvious rebuttal would be "what about amway legs", but a rebuttal of that rebuttal would be counting the downline of those internation amway legs.
If we combine ALL the amway / quixtar ppl in the world, I don't think that picture will be any different than this one.
With all due respect to the forum poster, several of us have presented largely similar analyses. The results always have been, not suprisingly, similar...
I suspect the apologists, living their lives by the utterances of the "Pins", will take issue with the number of Diamonds. Even if one assumed that there are three times the number of registered but inactive North American IBOs (say 750K), the number of Diamonds is still trivial. I suspect that this is the number of qualified Diamonds, IBOs that Quixtar actually recogizes as current Diamonds. The motivational organizations freely admit that within ther system "once a Diamond, always a Diamond".
Before you proponents start making irrelevant and largely non-cognitive responses, lets's consider the following chain of thought.
1 - The ratio of Diamonds to non-Diamonds (0.0076%) referenced above comes directly from Quixtar, unflattering though it is. Let's assume that Quixtar actually knows how many Diamonds are in their organization.
2 - Since the various motivational organizations claim that there are hundreds (if not thousands) of Diamonds, referencing them in various "Profiles of Success"-type books, Quixtar's own numbers would indicate that many, if not most, Diamonds fall out of qualification and therefore do not even have access to the GROSS revenue (which I am not that impressed with) that a qualified Diamond would.
3 - As it appears that, even viewed in the most favorable light, there is a miniscule likelyhood that one can become Diamond and even less of a likelyhood of maintaining a Diamondship.
Given these facts, as provided by Quixtar, I have a question:
What are the networking organizations really offering people? It can't be Diamond revenue from Quixtar; it's almost impossible to obtain and even harder to maintain.
The only reasonable conclusion that can be drawn is that the bulk of the revenue has to come from participation in the distribution of support materials. There is no other conlcusion that can be made with regard to the non-retail organizations.
So why don't they tell prospects about this when they are presenting the business? Because Quixtar and regulators state that businesses structured in such a fashion are illegal.
Anyone considering this so-called "opportunity" is advised to ask for an accounting of where the support system money goes.
Are critbots actually saying again "there's only money in the tools?" Didn't I just send qblog 4 copies of checks from a Diamond. Just a Diamond, and in one month he made $93,000, and in the other month it was $124,000!! IN ONE MONTH GUYS! $124,000 in 1 month, from Quixtar - NO TOOL $! HOW are you idiots STILL saying "there's only money in the tools"!
I've shown you the proof!!
50 people last year qualified at Diamond or above levels. Thats in the Achieve magazine which is put out by Quixtar!
But go ahead keep saying there's only 17 Diamonds, you keep ignoring the fact there are overseas IBOs, not included in Quixtar #'s but that ARE a part of some Diamondship's bonuses!
And you can also inflate he tool $, I buy a $7.50 CD a week round that to $40/month, then maybe a Lit Pack here and there, Another $20, thats $60. Oh, were you counting services like 'Kate and One Domain, thats another $45. (little over $100)
Oh, and I guess of course its all PURE PROFIT right? The CDs are free, no cost for the webspace, etc. See THERE'S your fallacy: $200 x 12 x 13158 = $31,579,200.
$200 is high to begin with, Plus its not all profit!
Also, how many Diamonds have 13,000 people on Standing order? - probably not too many! 13,000 in a Diamondship is pretty high, at least "Active" people. I think Joe Markiewicz has about 8,000 people going to functions. Not ALL of them are on STO, and he's an EDC.
Alan is one of his Diamonds who has about 2500 people at functions. So saying a Diamond has 13,000 IBOs spending $200 a month is just a Gross misrepresentation of the facts!
Tony, I don't care if there is a Diamond getting a one million dollar check from Quixtar every month. What matters is that there is anywhere from 5000 to 15000 per Diamond that aren't.
And, just as there are expenses for the "tools", there are also expenses to be considered against any compensation from Quixtar. Companies with billions in gross revenue routinely fail for want of profit.
I don't care about gross revenue - I care about profit. Let's see some financial statements instead of photo-copied checks.
And I wouldn't get pissy about mis-representation, as you have absolutely no proof to the contrary. Especially when your "facts" run afoul of Quixtar's own data.
Tony, you remind me of a man trying to put out a grease fire with a feather duster. How excited you get!
Arguing against Quixtar's own reported numbers just because you don't like them or what they represent doesn't make them go away. There is no harder thing to face and overcome in life then our own dogmatic thoughts. Your going to have to open your eyes at some point and come into the light or stay with your head in the sand and get buried.
I propose a reading assignment, Plato's "Cave Analogy" in the "Republic" you like analogies right? Its very pertinent to this business. You probably will not find it in the Quixtar book club though.
That is very interesting that Tony can still find it to defend this joke of a business.
Those numbers don't mean jack Tony?
I'm sure we're all aware that diamonds flash around checks. Big deal
Come on dude, give your head a shake. A check is hardly proof, as nicely pointed out by Mike. It was sure funny when you got all mad that nobody believed you. I don't think anyone really doubted you would have a copy of a check. I'm sure we've all seen them, during various people'stenures in this business.
It's even funnier that you still think that a check alone proves that you're gonna make it in this (haha) "business"
Oh also Tony, just so you know. A CD costs well under a dollar to produce in mass, thats including labor and materials if you farm out the work.
If you own the equipment yourself, the cost drops dramatically. So hey, at least $6.50 of your weekly CD is going into your uplines pocket. Good for them!
Lets not even get into seminar admittance fees, talk about low overhead and then you can use the speech for your next CD.
Tony, I can appreciate your point of view, especially since I understand your need to make sense of what you have seen and been told.
Think about this: If you have a pie (in this case, of money), and you know that the slices are of a certain size (in this case, a mathematical average of $115 per month per active distributor) AND you know approximately how many people get slices of the pie (say about 225K active distributors)... Then you can determine the size of the pie.
If you now take the Corporations percentage of qualified diamond DD's and up, divide up that pie, you can determine about how many active IBO's are distributed among the diamondships.
Non-US, Amway business does contribute to the income of the diamond DD's, but does not improve the lot of a non-direct. In fact, non-directs do not benefit from internationally sponsored legs (to my knowledge). I have no doubt that you know more about the contributions of international legs than I, but in any event, the international business probably does not add appreciably to the number of domestic diamonds.
Bottom line, the number of non-directs per diamondship, mathematical average, shows the fundamental issue with Quixtar: the bulk of IBO's shooting for that level have not a snowball's chance in Hell of ever making it. They will spend lots of money on tools and motivation and never recoup that money through business operations.
Yep, that's what I'm doing - stealing their dream. Or IMO, more like their nightmare.
Tony: Are critbots actually saying again "there's only money in the tools?" Didn't I just send qblog 4 copies of checks from a Diamond. Just a Diamond, and in one month he made $93,000, and in the other month it was $124,000!! IN ONE MONTH GUYS! $124,000 in 1 month, from Quixtar - NO TOOL $! HOW are you idiots STILL saying "there's only money in the tools"!
Disenchanted: How much of that $93,000 and $124,000 was actually KEPT by the Diamond, and not distributed downline in the form of bonuses? Do the math. For a check of $125,000, if you were in the 25% bonus bracket, your business volume would have to be $100,000. Did he PERSONALLY do $100,000 BV, or was this the cumulative amount of BV from his group? Honestly now, which makes more sense? Come on. At at PV:BV ratio of even 1:2, there would have to be $200,000 spent. I'm quite sure he didn't do that himself. If he did, he's not too bright, because he spent $200,000 to get $125,000! So there again, he may have received a check for $125,000, but it had to be distributed down to the masses in increments according to the bonus structure. So tell us how much he KEPT and we can talk.
Was it a one time bonus for something? Show us in the compendium what is required for that amount. I'm willing to work with you here, but you have to use some common sense.
Hey Mike, I used to work for a company where the CEO DID make about $1 mil a month, and guess what - there were more than 15,000 that didn't!! Do you have a problem with that, should the company be shut down??
You guys are twisting the #'s plain as day, you take some of Quixtar #s and then make your own assumptions and come up with false data. I've already said you aren't accounting for overseas IBOs - what more proof to the contrary do you want??
And seriously what do you think the business expenses for a Diamond are? The same as any other IBO. STO, 'Kate, website, business cards, etc. Even if they fly to give a talk somewhere, they're being paid for their time, I'm sure their cut from the tickets with cover their $300 airfair!
You don't buy $1.8 million dollar home on Lake Norman, and then buy a $50,000 WakeBoat, and a $20,000 watch if you're not making $. Oh, and just so you know, he paid cash for the watch and boat, and wrote a $945,000 down payment on the house! He could of paid for it all, but they like having plenty of $ in the bank.
And there's nothing stopping me from attaining the samething. Mike Waechter is the next on Joe's team to hit Diamond. Matt Grotewald is close behind, as is Steve F, Jarrod M, Bob B, Greg F, and many more!
I believe Tony that he had some copies of checks, but were the checks dated, and even if ONE big kingpin got the big bonus, it is not a typical situation for someone to make that kind of money through quixtar. Also, the achieve magazine may list all the amway/quixtar diamonds, but like Lawdawg states, unless you're recruiting in those other countries, it's more reasonable to look at the north america numbers.
The fact still remains that the are far more people who end up with less money than they started with.
By the way, did anyone ever get proof as to whether anyone who signed up AFTER the quixtar start up, went diamond following the 2-5 year plan??
Lastly food for thought.... If there are (31)
north america qualified diamonds, that means after all these years and millions of IBO's coming and going, then only 31 are receiving the magical "residual" income??
Disenchanted IBO,
I just wanted to chime in here. Quixtar pays bonuses downline, not the IBOs. Any check that an IBO receives is net of downline bonuses - it's not like our old Amway procedure of "cutting bonus checks".
My guess is that the check is for downline volume from the diamonds non-direct volume, his 4 percent on the direct volume, and all of his other bonuses combined. Could be a one-time bonus - we just don't know.
It would be interesting to find out his annualized income, and how many people were in his organization to generate that income.
In any event, the existence of that check or any others does not change the reality that:
1- It took many non-net income earners to create that volume -and-
2- Lots and lots of money was spent in tools to create that organisation -and-
3- The existence of that check does nothing to make Tony or enyone else any business income. It does, IMO, create false hope.
(part of a response as posted in another thread):
340,000 IBOs. Subtract those who are not active. That's what that statement says on the ILD Profile document. It also states it's based on those on Direct Fulfillment. Those are what the percentages are based upon!
Subtract all lines not on Direct Fulfillment for that calendar year (2001). WORLDWIDE GROUP WAS NOT ON DIRECT FULFILLMENT. What is your number??
BECAUSE YOU MUST USE THAT NUMBER as that is the wording of the statement!:
"The following are approximate percentages of DIRECT FULFILLMENT IBOs of record in North America who achieved these levels of success in the calendaryear ending December 31, 2001."
MULTIPLY the percentages against your new number. You will come up with A LOT FEWER DIAMONDS! AND NOT ENOUGH EDCs and above that we KNOW EXISTED. SO SOMETHING IS AMISS!!!
Go back to my original response a couple of weeks ago. NO ONE refuted anything I said, In fact, Keith complimented me on it. I laid out all the possible scenarios, including the new Achievers explanation. Did you call the corp. to get a clarification on that statement, current pins vs. new pins?
OMG - I HAVE TO USE SOME SENSE! Dude, you can't even do simple math!!! $125,000 is 25% of $100,000? And then you change it to $200,000, which is STILL over 50%. What are you talking about??
I don't even know where to go next -
ok, 1st of all, he wasn't getting 25% from his groups BV - you see if you actually knew anything about the business you'd know that once you break a Platinum, you get a 4% bonus check, which at 7500pv, is around $800, now as he goes, Ruby, etc that bonus gets bigger and bigger. And yes, there are also Bonuses you get for hiting certain levels. And there are also Growth bonuses!
And finally... how much was paid out to downline bonuses?? Hmm, how bout None! You see Quixtar pays each IBO what they earned, so he kept ALL of it! His downline got Their own checks.
Also, PV is Point Value, and BV is Business Volume. For a eg. a case of XS is 7.28pv, and has a BV of 20.40 - which is what it costs a member or IBO. I don't know what you're smoking to say that $100,000BV = $200,000. but then again you think 25% of $100,000 (and $200,000) is $125,000.
And Keith, If I get business gong in Korea, yes it benefits me, plenty of IBO's have business in other countries. My sponsor has business in Puerto Rico and another close upline has business in Asia somewhere.
Oh, and I know another guy locally who has 40 Diamonds in Asia! You say "international business probably does not add appreciably to the number of domestic diamonds." Where did you think those international IBOs came from?? From business in the US!
Oh, there's my little Embot.....
I've been looking for you in other threads.
Are you gonna substanciate your greater-than-8%-claim or not?
Uhoh, looks like Analogy Anthony is back at it again......
Tonybot>I used to work for a company where the CEO DID make about $1 mil a month, and guess what - there were more than 15,000 that didn't!! Do you have a problem with that, should the company be shut down??
Well, did the CEO take draw his paycheck from the bank those of his employees?
Of course not. The employee's salary and the CEOs salary comes from the SAME place.
You really have to work on your analogies Tony. You look like a fool.
Anyway, in A/Q, the salary of the upline comes out of the pockets of the downline (overpriced product, tools, seminars, etc.)
It is the circulating cash flow described above that has launched so many investigations into A/Q as a pyramid scheme.
And even though it hasn't been found to be a pyramid, the circulating cash is very much a reality.
Keep paying your upline Tony, they love fleecing their own sheep!!!
df, why don't you post your actual e-mail address or your phone number and I can get ahold of you, as I requested before.
I wouldn't ask anyone to post a phone number on a public forum. All the new IBO recruits would have another # to put on there phone list.
Again I think the read of the day for Tony and EM should be the "Cave Analogy" by Plato, he was a Diamond in the philosophy world!
df, I got halfway thru your post and that, this has to be df, he's one critbot that can't make any valid arguments, and then I scroll down to prove myself correct!
If you think your CEO isn't making $$ off the work you do, then you are Completely clueless on how business works, and to quote Greg D. you don't have "any concept of whats going on at your job".
df> in A/Q, the salary of the upline comes out of the pockets of the downline (overpriced product, tools, seminars, etc.)
T> for the Last time that was just Quixtar money! NO TOOLS! Qx doesn't give checks for tools, its more moving volume. Call it overpriced. The stuff I buy is not. I mainly buy XS, protein bars, and vitamins. When compared to equal competition they are equal or cheaper in price.
I also occasionally buy stuff like Adidas gym shoes, Haggar slacks, Cool Water cologne and I pay the same price I would anywhere else, often cheaper, and I get a bonus back.
I also occasionally shop at places like Circuit City, BassPro, Shop.com, etc. and I pay the same price (sometimes the prices are cheaper online versus instore) plus I get a bonus back.
Yet another perspective on that 124 kilobux check: Remember that figures into that $115 "average" for active chumps. How many zeroes would it take to average that 124k down to $115? Well, 124k/115=1078, so there would have to be 1077 people making ZERO that month just to average out that one check. For every one of those big checks going to one of the statistically insignificant few who are getting them, a similar situation exists. This means that, as puny as $115 is, even that is significantly higher than what the vast majority of participants will receive in a month. $115 is the mean. Anybody have a calculation for the MEDIAN?
"If you think your CEO isn't making $$ off the work you do, then you are Completely clueless on how business works, and to quote Greg D. you don't have 'any concept of whats going on at your job'"
That isn't what he said. You're changing the subject.
PW
Tony - you're right!!! My math sucks!! Even I have to laugh at myself....but see how we "recovering" IBOs can admit when we're wrong!! That was really bad...here's what I was trying to get at -
We (WWG) was taught - 1PV = appr $2.50
So if I received a bonus check for $124,000, then my BV would have to be 4x that BASED ON A 25% bonus schedule (yup, I've been deprogrammed well and I DID forget that once a Diamond, you supposedly get 4% of your platinum's BV, or something like that). So, you're absolutely correct that I suck at math. However, in WWG we DID distribute checks to our downlines, because we were NOT on direct fulfillment. And again, I did forget that other groups did things differently. My mistake...
Thank you for pointing out my errors. I admit I was wayyyy off base with my math. So do the math for me, since I suck at it. How did the corp arrive at a bonus of $124,000? Give me several scenerios, I don't care. But give me one that tells me how he did it. Use the 4% on each of the 6 Platinums as an example (you can even use Ruby volume), then tell me how much was a growth bonus.
I'm sure since you are much better at math than I, this request will not be a problem. I've seen the checks from my ex-upline too. But I never asked. So help me out here. This is a legitimate request.
I got a 93% in freshman Algebra, I know how to come up with several scenarios, but I won't waste my time so that you can say, how I made Tony come up with blahblahblah. You can figure it out now, you've got the right #s - 1pv = @$2.50 making 100pv about $250BV. You know Ruby is 15,000pv, and don't forget some Rubies do 20,000 and 30,000pv. thats a nice 4% check. Figure he's still got Ruby side volume himself, and so he is in the 25% bracket -- you can come up with nice good scenraios.
Don't have time to explain the growth bonuses, but remember Diamond bonuses equal about $61,000 a year - just for being at that level. (Q-12 bonus is $10,000).
Hey piddlywink (PW) explain what DF meant then. Or df, clarify your statement, but this time arrange the words to make a coherent sentence.
Tony,
In the case of the example of the $1m per week CEO and how this relates to Quixtar, are we to then assume that the employees of the $1m CEO were all told by the CEO that they'd someday all be CEOs?
That's the flaw in this common Quixtar comparison. A regular J.O.B. is not a pyramid scam because despite the fact that the CEO makes more money than those underneath him, the employees aren't told nor do they all assume that they will all be CEOs one day.
Tonybot:
I didn't say that my boss isn't get paid from my efforts. HE IS !!!
And guess what, I MAKE money from HIS efforts too!!!
Holy cow, that is a mutally beneficial relationship. It's a win-win deal....
But in A/Q, you have HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS of 'average' IBOs making $115
(keyword being average--> there are people that are LOSING a lot of money) only to line the pockets of their upline.
Again, there is a BIG difference in what I am doing at my J-O-B and what you are doing in your C-U-L-T.
DF> Mutually beneficial, everyone draws a positve revenue stream in terms of salary, benefits and retirement savings plan.
Tonybot>Upline benefits onlys, everyone fights for the 'privelage' to fleece' their own people by selling overprice motivational tools
How can you even TRY to compare the 2 ?
You are so far out of this game Tony, you might as well drop your mit and go home.
Embot, you really are slow, aren't you???
Open up your eyes.......
Embot:
You made your claim, HERE.
Embot>"I've done much much better with my investments than your 8% return with doubling your money in 9 years. But thanks anyway for the suggestion"
So I would think that you would also substanciate your claim, HERE.
And, no, you aren't getting my email or phone. And, no, I am not interested in your business opportunity. And, no, I don't want to meet your for coffee @ Denny's to discuss the matter further!!!
Just stand by your claim, big boy. Prove it
The "hundreds" of thousands can barely be called plural, and the mean is $115; with those big checks being flashed (illegally), most are making substantially less. How much (the mean again) are they spending in pursuit of their paltry checks? Spending directly buying PV, burning gas to drive around inflicting this nonsense on others, plus the opportunity cost of what they could be making during the time they're wasting...
With outside retail as small a portion of total sales as it is, the bonus pool is financed almost entirely by participants. Those big checks are coming from YOU and thousands like you. The money moves up, as is the nature of pyramid scams. The big earners do so at the EXPENSE of those below them. In a corporation, you may be a peon, the CEO may make orders of magnitude more than you, but you're getting a salary, and his doesn't come out of your pocket from money you bring in from elsewhere. The comparison is invalid.
Bystander, thanks for validating the invalidity of Tony's point.
As if that made any sense at all....
Should we just call Tony an "invalid" ???
Subtantiate.
From the root word shared with substance.
Qualities that I find missing in the pro-Quix arguments, even ones that I compliment for their tone and thoughtfulness.
It's not really the small pins' fault - the numbers and data that they are fed are like shifting sands in the desert.
They must rely on appearances, hype and hope... No real analysis can occur until the real numbers are known. All of them. Until then, all claims are conjecture.
Good luck
Hey Tony,
I'm not into the name calling thing. And I do believe that there are a few who might make a big income from amway/quixtar without tools money. However, as many pointed out, a check may not really be a good indicator of this diamond's income. What would be the true indicator would be a copy of his schedule C tax return. That would show his NET profit after expenses.
When I was a 4000 pin, my bonus check was over $1000 but after the downline bonuses went out, I had less than $1000 left and when I was through buying extra tapes and WWDB taught that you must buy the standing orders for IBO's who quit ( I had a few of these), plus extra function tickets, I was still at a net loss from business expenses.
And as for the CEO of a company, yes they make more than the employees and their income comes through their employees efforts. No argument there. However, in quixtar, the diamond makes the majority of their income (directly or indirectly) from their downline. And unless the diamond is working directly with all the downline, he is gaining from their efforts and not giving anything in return. Also, the CEO and employees make money from profits, from customers. This way everyone gets a net profit (salary) whereas the diamond and an emeral may make money while all the lesser pins make nothing or suffer losses.
So can you get a schedule C from one of the kingpins and send it to Qblog??
WEll anyway, I wanted to comment in and say I agree with the scam part and must say "tony", I don't know if you know what your talking about..........but lets throw this in for the mix
Quixtar, says that in the first four years it was in business, it has generated 3.1 billion(don't know if this is gross)..........Fine
so lets just say about 775 million per year.........fine(this number doesn't matter much, since it just a esimate of my own wanting of knowledge........so really........ignore it or should u!?....maybe it means more than you think)
You got 340,000 workers, 224,400 work including 31 are higher ups(kinda odd huh.....you think they be more higher up people)
so if everyone got paid..........with me not know the point system and crap.......just knowing tha annual pay.........of 1380 dollars annual shit(gross income...comes from the big boys themselves)
you get 319 million gross income................now that just one year..............so for four year, you got 1.2 million gross income...............okay
Ooo look you have 1.2 billion left while in the four years...........but there are a couple of problem with the math
One, UNknown number of diamonds and above postions..........I have counted the amount of possible diamonds and above postions with the percent given by quixtar..(.0076 percent for diamand balh blah blah)..............Now we all know that quixtar is saying that it has alot of diamonds.............like into the hundreds maybe
I only counted 17 with the percents.........so that would mean, total of 17 people have to be paid 2 mil
NOw tony, you are saying that they are alot of diamonds.............K
If there were even 100 diamonds.....you need to pay them 14 million...............that a big increase in money to pay people
Now! I have no idea about the higher postions and how many are really "higher uppers" besides the percent esitmate of people that quixtar gives
how much do these people actually spend to get to this gross income?......like what do they do really...............how much money must be put in to the business before anything is gain
And lets face it.............149,849 for diamond is gross income..............only profits accounted for..........nothing about business cost, nor if the business is going around...............quixtar says low risk..............but what business doesn't have risk!?
OKay now in further a doo doo
This company goal is to make money and how are they going to do it
Well of course to get people hired and work below you...........okay forget about points now...............There isn't enough people in United states to spend money into this site nor become IBO to get you to reach this high point of great living...........
I bet our numbers from the gross income in a 4 year interval is a bit off.......... just for the fact of how many people were probably hired inbetween.................and what about the inactive IBO's?...............do they just sit on their lazy asses and get paid?................what were the profits?................how many people actually got to the top........I know I repeating something........but questions that don't have answers.
They don't talk about profits on there site, or how much there increasing ever month nor nothing.........thats why it the begining I told you to ignore my esitmate of the 4 years of annual earning from their "in 4 years we made 3.1 or 3.2 billion".........whats their profit?...........is the company rising or falling!?
Now if the company continues to grow, how are they going to pay for all these people in the business, and for the potential so called diamonds!?.................How many people do you think are going to buy shit on this online site!?...............The volume isn't going to increase much........how many people do you think 224,400 are going to reach.......plus not to mention the people below them are probably their next door neighboor or friends
Is quixtar even regulating their supply and demand....basic rule of eco...........you know you have to stop hiring people eventually................You start to lose profit....................I work for pathmark.....and there not hiring people like crazy unless they have money to do so.........they run off a budjet of how many people they can hire at once
Well I'm going to end it here.....I blabbed enough =P
O yea, I not great with grammar nor spelling
=P
I think everyone is making the mistake of thinking Tony has a brain for facts and business sense.
Tony, you're going to feel stupid about this when it hits you.
I hope you still live with your parents, that way at least you won't be affecting yourself too adversely.
"Mr. Shag, what you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone on this blog is now dumber for having read it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul."
Shag> Well I'm going to end it here.....I blabbed enough =P
I wish you had said that near the top right after "WEll anyway,"
Shag> O yea, I not great with grammar nor spelling
UNDERSTATEMENT OF THE CENTURY.
df, dawson, ck, - how painful was it reading that.
"Thats all I have to say about that".
Ouch.
*cough*
OKay mister smartie pants
Tell me what I'm wrong about?
You just told me things, like that I'm dumb founded son of a bitch
OKay then Plz tell me, what I'm missing
Come mister Fact boy, Lets hear it!?
I really must be missing the big light founded picture.....Lets hear it!
ENLIGHTMENT O MIGHTY GOD!
Tell me what part of logical reasoning is wrong???????
take parts of my so called non sense, and agrue it jackass
Just saying that someone is wrong isn't good enough, Prove me wrong!
Lets see it, I"m waiting
Now you feel how other ppl feel Tony Pony ;););)
I loved it. Seriously, it wasn't as bad as compared to some other peeps.
Well to be honset, I don't want to get on the bad side of anyone........even tony.................I don't wish to bad mouth you either...........so actually no hard feelings really, since I have to deal with my friends in the business already......their bad enough.
Though, I would like to argue this topic further. I want to see what both sides, have to say.........but honsetly if you can't argue your point with some simple logic or knowledge or facts then your arguement is lost.
So lets have a clean fight =P
Ha, clean fight with IBOs and Alticor sent fakees. That's a good one.
Hey Tony,
I'm not into the name calling thing. And I do believe that there are a few who might make a big income from amway/quixtar without tools money. However, as many pointed out, a check may not really be a good indicator of this diamond's income. What would be the true indicator would be a copy of his schedule C tax return. That would show his NET profit after expenses.
When I was a 4000 pin, my bonus check was over $1000 but after the downline bonuses went out, I had less than $1000 left and when I was through buying extra tapes and WWDB taught that you must buy the standing orders for IBO's who quit ( I had a few of these), plus extra function tickets, I was still at a net loss from business expenses.
And as for the CEO of a company, yes they make more than the employees and their income comes through their employees efforts. No argument there. However, in quixtar, the diamond makes the majority of their income (directly or indirectly) from their downline. And unless the diamond is working directly with all the downline, he is gaining from their efforts and not giving anything in return. Also, the CEO and employees make money from profits, from customers. This way everyone gets a net profit (salary) whereas the diamond and an emeral may make money while all the lesser pins make nothing or suffer losses.
So Tony, can you get a schedule C from one of the kingpins and send it to Qblog??
The information below is derived from:
http://web.archive.org/web/20030613171429/http://www.myildportal.com/leadership/leadershipdocs/profilesofsuccess.pdf
"Average Annual Income for IBOs in North America*".....
"The following are approximate percentages of Direct Fulfillment IBOs of record in North America who achieved these levels of success in the calendar year ending December 31, 2001. Platinum .4242%, Founders Platinum
.2704%, Q-12 Qualifiers .1317%, Emeralds .0458%, Founders Emeralds
.0186%, Diamonds .0076%, Founders Diamonds .0018%, EDC & Up .0042%,
Founders Executive & up .0007%."
"* Approximately 66% of all IBOs of record were found to be active*"
Can anyone tell me the total number of IBOs we are talking about here in the percentages?
(number of active, DIRECT FULFILLMENT IBOs as it clearly states.)
Can you give me the total number of EDCs based on that number?
(HINT: WWG was not on Direct Fulfillment as well as other active IBOs)
Can you easily name more than six or seven EDCs you would arrive at using this formula?
df, you substantiated NOTHING here with YOUR claims of lousy returns. If you wish to know more you can get ahold of me. But you would have to give me a way to contact you-- your phone number, email, etc. (no, you will not be shown a business plan).
And yes, my returns would blow yours away any day.
What are you afraid of?
hey lawdawg,
I am not disputing quixtar's numbers, I am disputing YOUR numbers/calculations.
All these "facts" are just speculations and are again skewing the data to make it look like quixtar has zero growth. You asked for how many NEW diamonds there were in quixtar- not active, not ones that dropped out. We answered, yet you continually neglect to acknowledge a response that several people have given you.
Also, there isn't any solid evidence where the bonus pool of 373 million came from. The jury is still out on that one. Was it from straight FAA bonuses, or was it a combination of BV/FAA bonuses? I will agree with you that the 373 million seems amazingly low considering what revenue they brought in.
Also, am I wrong or can Diamonds have downline in both Quixtar North America, and Amway/rest of the world at the same time?
Lawdaug. are you willing to call Dick Davis at Worldwide and have the claim of 20 plus diamonds in WWG substantiated or are you to just content with your erroneous formulations? (After all you said there were only 31 diamonds in all of Quixtar.)
Which is it?
Also, did you attempt to contact Quixtar legal department for clarification of the figures for numbers of IBOs and percentages of achievement?
Did you?
Then after we get these questions answered we can start talking about the Quixtar only diamonds.
Yes folks, we are going to talk about that.
Well that according to quixtar those numbers. I'll explain
They give a percent out of max ibos currently active, only a couple of diamond are possible. Though that 31 diamonds, isn't just 31 diamond, it's also the people above diamond. They give a percent of each postion, and the chance of so many people making it as that postion.
The percent were given by quixtar. We just did the math. Though quixtar doesn't state anywhere, on it's website on how many of each postion is currently held.....nor it the amount of acutally people who are ibos.
The number of ibos that currently there, is a number from some other site, I forgot the name at this current moment, but I didn't find myself on the quixtar site. Though It really baffles me that quixtar wouldn't tell other people about how many people are currently enrolled in quixtar.
The only thing quixtar tell you is
one, the monthly gross income for all ibos.....which can be easily converted to yearly......also how many ibos are active.
plus the percent, the chance of people becoming any class or postion, or w/e you call it.
What I'm missing is maybe the correct number of ibos currently there, how many in each postion.
But the biggie is
Is this company making any profit!?
The company does tell you about the first 4 years for example.....it has made I think 3.2 billion dollars. Though it tells you no infomation about the annual profits.
You is this year a bad year?....was last year better for them?...........telling someone I have 5 million dollars over the course of 10 years isn't alot of money really. It just means you saved it alot of it. Not spending it, except in a business, your almost always excepted to spend.
O yea, they don't even say if the 3.2 billion is gross or revenue.
So I'm just explain where people might've gotten their infomation, but they mostly gotten from quixtar them selfs, on it's own website.
But I have question?
Do you have to pay to go to the semiars? or pay to even join this company?
Sry not fully informed into this company, Just trying to learn what I can
Wow that was a bad post...................lol..................this is what happens when you have lack of sleep.........and your eye lids weight like anvils.......well we can agrue this more tomm in my time =p
Have fun and Play Safe!
Tony, Michael, Emminem,
We could put to rest a lot of these debates. Why don't you guys send a copy of your schedule C's to Qblog. That way you can prove that you are profitable. If you are, then maybe we can discuss it. If you aren't profiting, maybe you should rethink your involvement in this business.
And you may give us the programmed answer that it's none of your business. That's what my upline told me when he asked. Anyways a friend of mine just sold two of his conventional businesses for about half a million (UPS stores). Guess what? Before he sold he had to provide copies of his tax return as prrof that his business was viable and profitable.
Keith Sr.>Subtantiate.
You forgot your 's' their Keith.
Maybe you shouldn't try this "pis_ing" contest. You might just find yourself peeing into the wind....
Embot>If you wish to know more you can get ahold of me.
DF>Uh, I already am, by calling you out, RIGHT HERE.
Embot>But you would have to give me a way to contact you-- your phone number, email, etc.
DF>Uh, you already ARE contacting me, in this thread, remember ???
Embot>And yes, my returns would blow yours away any day.
DF>Uh, okay...care to PROVE that ???
Embot>What are you afraid of?
DF>Uh, nothin I guess. I claimed modest returns by safely investing my money.
There isn't any fear here -- in fact, I am quite confident that I will either TRIPLE or QUADRUPLE my current assets in the next 24 years. Again, it is all in the 8-12% return rate that I can safely expect.
And although the triple vs quadruple forecast is a big variance, it really comes down to whether or not my toy boat(s) will sleep 10 or 20 people and whether or not my vacation home(s) will back to water or woods.
Needless to say, things are pretty comfy over here.
So, Embot, I ask you, "what are you afraid of" ???
What have you invested in that is yeilding a consistent, average return above 8-12% ?
Come on big boy, put your cards on the table.
I have to give Tonybot credit for quoting Old School.
I figured he's a 'Dean Pritchard' kind of guy.
But, Tonybot, we gotta get back to business; or in your case, get back to your
"fake business"
Tell me where I am wrong here (though I doubt you can):
DF>I didn't say that my boss isn't get paid from my efforts. HE IS !!!
And guess what, I MAKE money from HIS efforts too!!!
Holy cow, that is a mutally beneficial relationship. It's a win-win deal....
But in A/Q, you have HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS of 'average' IBOs making $115
(keyword being average--> there are people that are LOSING a lot of money) only to line the pockets of their upline.
Again, there is a BIG difference in what I am doing at my J-O-B and what you are doing in your C-U-L-T.
DF> Mutually beneficial, everyone draws a positve revenue stream in terms of salary, benefits and retirement savings plan.
Tonybot>Upline benefits onlys, everyone fights for the 'privelage' to fleece' their own people by selling overprice motivational tools
How can you even TRY to compare the 2 ?
Ouch.
Sorry Tonybot, you had a quick little moment of coolness with the Old School thing, but now it is time to get back to kicking your arse all over these threads!
DF, I am duly and appropriately whipped.
Not really a pissing contest for me... And I thought that I was "on your side" :-)
I will survive, prosper, and go on to VICTORY!!! HaHaHaHa!!!!!!!! Ain't it GREAT!!!! YEEEEEHAAAAAAAA!
Oops, sonding like Dean just a little too much...
I hope that you guys have fun, I'm taking off for Lake Powell for a couple of weeks, hang on the houseboat, ride the Sea Doos... No computer, or cell phone... Just friends, fireworks and FUN!
Love you all... In a manly way, of course ;-)
DF, u r like Jim Reed. You got more issues with critics than IBOs.....
Imran, you my friend are an idiot.
I was chastising Keith Sr., and HE got the joke. Why didn't you?
Hit your ESL books and get back with us in a few years....
Let us not fight amongst ourselves, we have Tony to rally against. He makes it sooo easy to dislike him. Tony Sheep, where are you? Getting Fleeced by your sponsor and upline?
Well, Tony, since you asked, I would have to say that the multiple ".......", as if we're reading some sort of stream of consciousness, is even more annoying than reading posts with multiple question marks at the end of every interrogatory and exclamation points at the end of every statement.
If there is any victory in that, then I suppose congratulations are in order!
DF, u r very much like Bill Britt. He was famous of bigoted statements.
What I want to know from the Quixtar proponents, in clear and concise terms, is why prospects shouldn't use data published by Quixtar itself. I simply do not not understand how anyone can argue against the SA4400 and Profiles of Sucess, both publsihed by Quixtar.
Imran, sorry, your comment was lost on me. See, I was never stupid enough to sign up for that crap, so I have no idea who Bill Britt was.
And keep working on that ESL...
"He was famous of bigoted statements"
How about...
"He was famous FOR HIS bigoted statments"
See, I care. I'm here to help!
And may God bless you for caring, DF.
Keith Sr., have a great long weekend.
I am glad we got that all out of the way.
Now, Tonybot and Embot have some 'splaining to do.....
TonyBot and Embot are on the verge of going the way of Jen-Bot, Chris-Bot, and the DoDo bird. HmmmmDo-Do bird eh?
Anyhoo, I am still trying to figure out why they are arguing about the numbers Quixtar has provided. Perhaps they should be discussing the numbers with Quixtar, not us.
TonyBot-"Hi Quixtar, could you change your numbers please? I am getting skewered online because of YOUR numbers"
Quixtar-"Oh this is Tony? Sure, no problem. We'll stop the printing of the new materials right now and revise them, just for you"
Have a great day, you fricking winners. Michael can maybe write an article about why Quixtarians should shut up and take their medicine when hooped.
Before you even say it Michael, I will read your blog. It gives great insight into the mind of a positive thinking madman, and I have shared many a laugh with friends over your supposed leadership posts.
Hey df, you need to edit better - you said "have a great long weekend"
Well, thanks - but I'm going for almost two weeks!
Oh well, I guess that's just a heckuva looooong long weekend.
Seriously, though- thanks. You're alright in my book.
Thanks DF, you are getting famous FOR YOUR bigoted comments ;)
In my neighbor hood, ppl who speak perfect English without making any grammatical mistake are considered gay ;) Seriously! Visit Toronto sometimes.
rocket, actually I expected nothing more from a dolt like yourself.
Imran-->oh, you're Canadian, that says a lot already !!!
Nice bigoted stereotype with the English/gay thing too.....hypocrite!
I've been to Toronto numerous times.
I've always had a great time, probably because I never ran into you.
Most Canadians (although they are somewhat insecure because their culture is just a bad knock-off copy of American culture) are pretty nice folks.
You should be happy that your Maple Leafs are playing hockey this year. Cheer up, don't be so angry......
Go grad your took and your Molson two-for and get outtahere!
Mike,
The Profiles Of Success is NOT published by Quixtar. In fact, the publication and distribution of books like the Profiles Of Success is against Quixtar's rules.
Read your compendium.
PW
Yes, when I was in WWDB, they told us not to use profiles of success to "prospect" new recruits. I guess it was because it depicted wealth that was accrued by non amway money (income from tapes and seminars).
Hey Tony or Mike, got a copy of the schedule C yet? That's the real indicator of an IBO's income.
Now DF, careful now with the anti-Canadian comments, I thought we were kindred spirits!
I am also finding a hard time where you made a bigot comment. Does ESL mean English Speaking Language? How is that a bigot remark?
C'mon Imran dude. I think you need to stop throwing around racism and bigot remarks when someone shakes your tree a bit. Your English isn't perfect, so what? Your English is Waaaayyyy better than I could speak your first language. Grain of salt man, it's OK! Pobody's Nerfect!
Embot, I don't know too much about dolts, but apparantly you're an expert in the field and seem to know everything there is to know about dolts, so I'll take your word for it, I am a dolt.(Why does that sound like something Reggie would say to Archie....dolt? chee)
But at least I'm not in AmQuix. Go Diamond!!! Be a hero!!! Live the dream!!!!
You gottta have a dddrrrreeeeaaaammmmm!
Rocket, Dawson, I'm bored from Tony.
Rocket> I am also finding a hard time where you made a bigot comment.
Imran> Did you ever read him ;) ESL = English as a Secondary Language. But I didn't call him bigot because of that. I've been reading him for a while now and this is my opinion about him. Who else I’ve called racist?
I can write English alright if I take my time. On top of that, I can speak / read / write 3 more languages. I don't think a lot of ppl around here write perfect English ;)
DF>I’ve always had a great time, probably because I never ran into you.
Imran> You’re damn right......
When i posted these numbers, I really didn't think that each diamond is making $30+ million. I just wanted to show how disportionate the income really is. I'm sure a Diamonds cut is more like $1 million. Uplines have to take their share. Downline gets a very little bit. GOGS is low seeing how the big dogs own their own production facilities. (cut out the middle man :)
rocket you are a dolt which is a blockhead and a dullard. So wear the title proudly. After all you cannot comprehend simple statements. Nor can you understand there is no problem with Quixtar's numbers, only people who misconstrue information. Obviously you could not answer my question I asked in my post above. It's just way above your head. Nor does it seem like any of your cohorts can either.
Funny how you all are trying to change the subject. HA and nobody seems to want to talk about Quixtar only diamonds, now that I'VE brought it up. We'll save that discussion for next week. Hate to hand you guys two major defeats in one week.
Df you are going to wait 24....24?!?!? YEARS?! to triple your money? Heck I did that last year alone. Too bad you won't find out, unless you contact me privately with your name, address and phone number, and then I'll tell you.
M&M why don't YOU phone Mr. Davis since you're the ne with the numbers problem.
OK, so how many North American Quixtar only diamonds are there? You going to finally provide an answer? That's the only response I need, just the number of North American Quixtar only diamonds. Can you give it? You are obviously way higher than me on the intellectual plane.
I can triple my money if I'm a fully plugged in IBO as well, by collecting 7 bottles laying in the ditch off any given interstate or the Trans Canada Highway.
So, no more changing the subject. How many North American Quixtar only diamonds in the past 5 years?
And you may want to field DF's question as well before you paddle off to another function. He has tried hard not to change the subject, YOU keep changing it.
Later, winner.
I am not the one performing spurious research, if you can even call it research.
I don't make claims to number of diamonds (phony claims at that due to misconstrued research). I, in fact, know and I have no need to obtain info I already know from Dick. From apparently some people do need that and NEVER MADE ANY ATTEMPTS ANYWHERE to get any information of the sort (and neither from the corporation's legal department either). You and I both know there are over 6-10 EDCs in all of Quixtar. But it seems somebody's theory falls apart if there happens to be more.
rocket I have one question to ask you and I would appreciate the courtesy of a reply (hey, anyone else feel free to answer also!):
Based on the legal statements on the ILD pdf doc., are any WORLDWIDE diamonds included in figuring the supposed totals (from the percentages given)? Why or why not?
Oh, and while were at it, here's the bonus question. Since there are 20 plus diamonds in WWG (as there were at least that many in 2001), how many others are there in ALL OF QUIXTAR outside of WWG? 11? Remember to count BWW, Dex, ILD, etc. You don't know, do you? But feel free to throw numbers around anyway. And keep repeating it over and over like a parrot. Oh, by the way, since the ILD document is also legal, all those diamonds represented on that pdf MUST also be included in your total.
Here's the second bonus question: Since you are convinced there are no more than 10 EDCs in ALL OF QUIXTAR (based on that spurious research) should we start naming them? Dexter, Britt, Paul Miller, Ron Puryear, Greg Duncan, Brad Duncan, Brad Wolgamott, Theron Nelson, Terry Felber, Bill Hawkins, Jimmy Head...... Oh wait that's 11 already! And I am sure some from the other lines would like to pipe in here and name some of there's. Plenty more for sure.
Maybe you should start thinking about what the meaning of the word "achieve" is.....
No, we'll start talking about North America Quixtar only diamonds next week. Too many people are heading out of town and I am sure you'd love there being a sparse readership if you fear what's to come your way. But remind me will ya? The fact that you guys keep harping on it like it's one of the crown jewels of your tenets of anti-quixtarism.
As for df, if he is curious he can certainly contact me. After all, he never told me his investments--what they are. But I have done way, way better and I assure you it's a considerable sum.
Why would Df even give any personal infomation to you in the first place, he doesn't want a stalker =P (just joking)
The numbers about quixtar are from their database (well not all the numbers)
the percents given by quixtar, is the approx number of new diamonds(they give all the percents for each postion) that came into quixtar of some month in 2002, not the total. (it's like .0079 percent for diamonds)But it's staggering to see that out of so many people, only 17 made it to diamond
Now I made some calculations.
224400 people are active in IBO ( I got this number from a website who was praising quixtar. It's said quixtar had 300,000 plus IBos or something of the sort....I don't remember the exact number but 66 % of that number of ibos gave 224400 to be active ibos)
so 224400 people make the average gross of 115 dollars a month(gross amount), which equal to be around 25 mil a month. 309 million a year.....these values are assumed to be accounted as gross values.....mean before taxes and expensives are ever taken into account.
average of ibos makes 115 month(from quixtar). Just from this something is seemingly very wrong.
So a big number of people make no more 1000 dollars at most a month. This is a very very rough esitmate of the 1000 dollars a month, since it is a average, so the better average who be for a higher number of peopel be like 1000 or 10000.
NOw, you have to think, the company says we have people who are making millions upon millions as income but yet the average of everyone is 115 a month, 1390 dollars per year.......A lot of people, I don't think are doing to well at all.
OKay lets back away from that for a bit.
Company says there are alot of diamonds, never says how many diamonds, but theres a lot of them. (if someone has a rough esimate of that number of people who are diamonds and of postions above diamond, I would like to know =P, it would help out with the numbers and calculations)
A diamond makes a average income of 148,000.*again according to quixtar)
17 diamonds = 2 mil about per year,
100 dimaonds = 14 mil per year
500 diamonds = 74 mil per year
1000 diamonds= 140 mil per year
plus or minus the amound for lets say 20-10 percent
My question is how many are alot of diamonds. since if there are 1000 diamonds. the average for everyone else who are ibos is about 309 million(including everyone according to quixtar, eveyone makes a approx monthly income). then 1000 diamonds take up about 2 and one fifths of the 309 million. O yea this yearly income, gross too.
So basically, knowing how many diamonds there are, is important, it helps ease the calculation instead of esitmates.
NOw
The company says it has made 3.1 billion in first four years
though, we know 309 million a year (gross) is what every ibo must recieve. Now for 4 years isn't very constant, for each year could be different of course. though quixtar doesn't explain profit nor none of that crap to us.
but 1.2 billion is what you get for four years. plus or minus .2 billion ( could be more, could be less)
This is amount quixtar has to pay it's workers. Though it's all in gross which is quite annoying
I want to hear some revenues for crying out loud. How much money did these workers have to put in, inorder to get these gross amounts?
Gross is nice to look at.....but in reality it means shit.......If my gross income was 1000 dollars.....but my expenses of business was 999 dollars.....well my net pay is only 1 buck........not very appealing is it?
OKay
O yea.....the company made 3.1 billion in four years. Doesn't quite say if it's revenue or gross.....Unknown value in any case
another scary though. since the company only has 1.9 billion left, very esitmating here. (3.1 billion - 1.2 billion)....this all after four years
so the 1.2 billion in one year is about 300 mil for one year.
That seems quite small for 224400 people to make including when got a lot of people make well above 1 mil according to the big boys. Or even if alot of them where making above 100k even.
400 people who make 100 k = is 40 mil
you only need 3000 people to make 100k, to equal = 300 milllion
but yet 224400 in quixtar cases only make 300 mil
The number of quixtar don't add up really.
I also found out how much it takes to start this business. My 2 friends have paid 250 to start.
Okay so, 224400 active Ibos times 250 dollars. thats 56 mil. though I would believe even the inactive people had to pay this. so 350,000 I think was the number but lets try it anyway. 87 mil.
Nice profit, woudln't you think?
I wonder who gets it and what they do with it
Also Not to mention that quixtar encourages you to the buys the "tool of the trade". so lets say 50 dollars a month. 600 year. 134 million from everyone (224400 people, ibos).
very nice amount, wonder who gets it and what do they do with it. we can only assume the best and worst cases. Though with these numbers and esitmates, I can assume something isn't right about the quixtar way of doing business.
Did I mention the average ibo only makes 115 a month!?
so for the first 2 and somehwat of a month. THey make no profit. They also pay for the books and crap every month.
though this can be very abstract. Cause then we have to account for if the person has any brains to not spend money when he doesn't have any money or not making much of a profit at all.
Now I got one thing to say
pyramid scheme
whose regulating how many people coming into this business. You got to remember, the more people means, the more money you must pay them. You can only make so much profit by selling so much. There is a point where, if you have to many employees, then you will start to overcome the profits you make.
Not to mention if the people being hired as "saleman" to create volume are in the same geological area. This is very ineffienct.Then not to mention you have to pay this people for the work they do.
Also these points(bv and Pv). It's like another currency. The points give the chance of people below you in this job, a chance to make money. It like communism almost. and we all know that communism didn't work. Plus not to mention no one ever hit communism. they hit socialism, not communism.
What happen when the point go over what there really worth. You know when the company goes out of business. these point mean jack shit. Also that the point increase the amount that the each worker much get.
So 1.2 billion for all 224400 per year. Might be well way off it's target. Not to mention, your missing how many postion of each there are.
All in all, infomation is missing. Though current infomation makes the whole thing look strange and abstract.
Okay I'm done, Your turn quixar boys =P
O yes and one more thing......This infomation ia base off and esitmates including, only towards the american quixtar.....nothing towards the outer rim. Since I want to know what american profits are, not the international quiztax.
Embot>As for df, if he is curious he can certainly contact me.
DF> YES I DID! I contacted you on this thread
Embot>After all, he never told me his investments--what they are.
DF> YES I DID! I invest in the stock market
I am not going to endorse any funds or individual stocks here. But I am have a conservative mix that consistently returns 8-12% / year.
Embot>But I have done way, way better and I assure you it's a considerable sum.
DF>Great Embot, please enlighten us all. What are you doing that is so great??? Pleeze, pleeze, pretty pleeze with sugar on top...tell the group where you are making your bucks.
We all know that it isn't AmQuix, so what could it be ???
Rocket,
I appreciate you reading my blog. I hope you learn something from it. If it provides an entertainment value for you thats good too! Either way, you are providing me with valuable traffic!
My blogshares acct just took in a healthy $46k! Too bad I cant cash that in for real..
joecool18, nice try at baiting IBO's. Its not going to happen and you know it- its just a pathetic attempt for a critic to drag and IBO into this little arguement you got going with Tony and Em. If I were to show you my schedule C I would require you to sign an affidavit form an attorney, and require you to sign up as an IBO. Since I know neither of those things will happen you are right, this schedule C debate is over. Next time you try and bait an IBO, try and use a little wit and make it interesting. That bait could be spotted a mile away, nice try!!
So Michael, this whole business based on waving checks, cars and boats in front of downline is fine, some one asking a proof is out of line?
Mikebot:
Who's to day that joecool won't work with your attorney and sign up as an IBO.
How much do you charge to become an IBO
anyway; I've heard of charges anywhere from $47-$250.
Which is odd that a "franchise" doesn't have a consistent fee schedule.....
....but I digress......
Imagine what old joecool would do if he actually SAW your Schedule C.
Would he:
a) Laugh at the red ink and supposed business expense(s)
b) Cry because you are a hapless idiot, slowly losing money like a lamb being led to slaughter
c) Both a & b
The answer is c - you're a freak of the industry (that's a little 'digital underground' reference for your whack-ass this Friday)
Imran,
I don't waive checks, sorry. That was Tony.
DF,
You are right, joecool would think my schedule C is laughable. I am not a millionaire- nor do I want to be. Saying my schedule C is operating in the red is an assumption. K so I am not making a gazillion dollars or even $10,000 per month. So what? That doesn't mean I am not profitable. Profitablity means different things to different people. Therefore I would think Joecool WOULD think my Schedule C is laughable.
Imran,
Would you rather have an IBO waiving the profiles of success around or would you have someone show you the business in an honest and ethicle manner that worked?
Also, the schedule C question has been and always will be a bait for the critics. You guys could care less about an IBO's actual bottom line. IF an IBO showed you his schedule C what would that do for you? Answer, it would only provide you with more ammunition to ridicule and insult an IBO, possibly scaring him out of the business.
Like david asked before, if an IBO became diamond being honest and ethical, would you praise that IBO or would you find other things to ridicule and insult his business? Most of you answered the latter.
Well Mikey, I think we all know that there is no such thing as an honest and ethical diamond, since you don't really get to diamond without being on the system.
Making your point quite lame.
I'll sign an affadavit from an attorney to see a schedule C. What would the affadavit say?
If yours, or any other IBO shows me that your (ha ha) business is profitable without tool money, I'll sign up. Seriously.
But we all know I won't be signing up, simply because none of the above will
A) Ever be done by any IBO
B) Prove this (ha ha) "business" to be a worthwhile endeavor
Those are the facts. Sorry, don't mean to steal your dream.
Mike,
I was a 4000 pin in the business. At that level, my bonus check (gross) was over $1000 a month. That's what I sold people
when I showed the plan. I used that as the "bait" to get people interested. But behind the scenes, I was still losing money and my bank account shrank until I was starting to go into debt. This was due to being CORE and following the "plan".
So unless you're a bigger pin such as emerald, I bet your schedule C shows a loss. Only you know the answer to that but if I'm right, you really need to rethink your position in the business.
Now you may wonder how I could spend more than $1000 or so each month. Let me break it down.
I bought 7 tapes per week as I was taught, plus 3 standing orders (some downline quit) That's 10 tapes per week.
$60 x 4 = $240.
Open meetings plus one per month regional function $ $30
Quarterly major function $900 ($300/month) I live in Hawaii so I needed airfare and hotel.
Gas $50/month
As a single, I was expected to move 300 PV. I usually had to buy about 100 PV each month which costs about $250.
And then there are other incidentals involved with business, which were nominal costs.
Hey Mike, got that schedule C?
joecool>So unless you're a bigger pin such as emerald, I bet your schedule C shows a loss. Only you know the answer to that but if I'm right, you really need to rethink your position in the business.
mikebot>You are right, joecool would think my schedule C is laughable. I am not a millionaire- nor do I want to be. Saying my schedule C is operating in the red is an assumption. K so I am not making a gazillion dollars or even $10,000 per month. So what? That doesn't mean I am not profitable. Profitablity means different things to different people.
Mikebot, don't worry, you ARE LAUGHABLE -- not just to joecool, but to ALL of us.
We are all laughing at you.
On a Schedule C, there is only ONE definition of profitable.
And my EDUCATED GUESS (per your behavior and the blurb from joecool above) is that you DO NOT meet that definition of profitable.
It's a pretty good guess isn't it ???
Isn't it !!!!
Think about it -- why did you get involved in a profit-oriented operation in the first place?
If you wanted to do non-profit work, you could be doing other non-prof. projects that dosn't require the purchase of tapes, seminar tickets, nor overpriced energy drinks. (P.S. We all know that you didn't do it for the drink recipes!)
Mark this day down, today is the day that your pro-Q argument officially BROKE down.
Maybe you can build from this moment on?
Good luck Mikebot. You'll need a lot of it.
Face it, you argument has Most of it
Embot:
With Mikebot officially busted, I am ready for you!
Where is your big bad business plan that yields the huge $$$ you claim ???
I'm here waiting Embot, all you gotta do is show up with an iron-clad plan....
HAHA! df, how dumb do you have to be when an IBO can quote movies better than you? That wasn't Old School, Einstein, it was Billy Madison! (Gee I guess some of these IBO types aren't little tape-listening hermit crabs, some actually seem to be balanced) But you ARE the stereotyping kind of guy! (oh, and I only resorted to calling him names 'cause... its df!)
Oh, so Joe18, all its gonna take is a Schedule C showing profit, for you to think the business is OK. Well just because I Personally can't show you big profit on my schedule C, doesn't mean my sponsor, or some of my upline and crossline couldn't show you profit on Their schedule C!
You had some rediculous expenses. Most 4000PVers, aren't flying from Hawaii to functions, their driving, so instead of a function costing $900! they cost $90!! (+$35 for hotel)
And thats up to YOU if you wanna buy the STO for people who quit, I hope you didn't keep ordering for them! And it was also YOUR decision to buy 7 tapes a week! Thats kinda nuts unless you've got the money, which you're saying you didn't! I get 1 CD a week, maybe some starter tools here and there. And no one's ever told me to do the things you were supposedly told. I guess different teams DO run things differently!
Also, it doesn't take the tools system to go Diamond, like someone said above! The tools would definitely help! but its not a Requirement to go Diamond! It takes 6 Platinums to go Diamond, and it takes 7500pv to be a Platinum! No STO requirement!!
Thanks for spreading more LIES!! You prove my point that you can't get legitment info off a blog like this! Yet some people still read this crap and don't even bother going any further!
Shag, and others... OK well first of all, the company as of last year is now at $4.2 BILLION in sales... that's SALES. Some idiot said "they don't even say if thats net or gross!"
IT SAYS SALES!! Thats total revenue, total sales, not Profit! And as of 8/31/04 Qx has paid out over $1 BILLION to the IBO's- so I know they're making Some $$, plus the owners of the company own a private island, so I think they're clearing enough for theirselves too.
http://a248.e.akamai.net/7/248/729/2a39eda85f5822/www.quixtarfacts.com/images/pdfs/quixtarfacts_factsheet.pdf
Oh, and just because I'm not making big $ yet, doesn't mean I should quit! Once again - Business Owner Mentality vs Employee Mentality. Larry Winters took 5 years to go Platinum, but now is an EDC with 7-8 diamonds on his team!
Hey CK, how did you like THAT post???
Tony, you can't show profit on a sched C, Mike can't show profit and Joe said that even at his level he couldn't show profit. Hell at a $1000 bucks a month even if that was $500 profit... It is not worth it!
The lives of people and the ones they care about are worth more! This may be profitable to the highest pins, but it sounds like poison until you get to that level, and it sounds like only those that are willing to continue to ingest and spread the deception after they get to that level keep in the business. They have turned into leeches that feed on the trust and hard work of others (AKA you Tony).
You can continue and strive to be a parasite Tony, if that is your want in life...go for it. Just know there are better ways to turn a buck then taking it from the trusting ignorant masses.
I am sure your response will include some sort of insult. Contrary to your statement above df is not the only one who you sling the names at and every time you act childish like that it weakens your credibility my angry little friend.
P.S. read that Cave Analogy for sure...Socrates was Plato's sponsor!
Tony, so you admit you're not raking in the bucks, but your upline is. How do you know? Did they show you a schedule C or tell you it's none of your business like my upline did? And of course there will be some people who can show you a profitable schedule C, but you have yet to show us one.
And Tony, you claim that I could not pay $900 to attend a function, that I could drive? How do you drive from Hawaii to Portland? I paid $240 for the family reunion function in portland oregon. That included some meals, but I also had to rent a car for about $50 (my share) and airfare was about $550 round trip from Hawaii to Oregon. And certain meals were not included so I spent another $50 to $100 there. I guess if I was smart like you I would have driven from Hawaii to Oregon but I don't know how to do that.
I also attended FED in San Diego. The ticket was $75 and the rental car was $160.
Meals and hotel was not included with the ticket so that costed me about $300. I believe round trip airfare was about $400 for that function.
Yes Tony, it's easy to rack up bills playing amway/quixtar.
Tonybot>Well just because I Personally can't show you big profit on my schedule C, doesn't mean my sponsor, or some of my upline and crossline couldn't show you profit on Their schedule C!
Well, Tonybot, I suggest that they post here and not you.
You, my dim witted little friend, have NOTHING to show your efforts.
Tonybot>HAHA! df, how dumb do you have to be when an IBO can quote movies better than you? That wasn't Old School, Einstein, it was Billy Madison
Well, you got me there. Sorry for the mixup, I just watched Old School last week and got that confused with the Frank the Tank-blackout debate.
Big victory Tonybot. Well, for you it was....
Congrats.
If that's the biggest "win" you can take away from here, then you should join Mikebot over there on the sidelines.
Michael> I don't waive checks, sorry. That was Tony.
Imran> So I can ask him, or any one who makes income claims to back it up, right? It is a business after all. Just asking to backing up some claim is not rude.
If some one is thinking of opening a franchise, he should be concerned about the franchise profitability and stuff. No?
FTC found Amway guilty of making income claims btw.
Michael>Would you rather have an IBO waiving the profiles of success around or would you have someone show you the business in an honest and ethical manner that worked?
Imran> waving checks or waiving checks? Any ways you know the answer. My upline told me that we undersold the plan. Poorest Diamond I know makes at least $400 K and a lot of other claims.
If some one tells me here are some products to retail. Here are the rules. I might say no, but I would respect the guy and wish him best of luck.
Tony-Bot:"Also, it doesn't take the tools system to go Diamond, like someone said above!"
I have heard of 1 and only 1 diamond who achieved that level through phone plans or something. I'm sure he is not maintaining that.
Here's a simple little phrase that even your twisted little wannabe ninja mind should be able to wrap itself around:
NAME ONE
Name one diamond who is a consistantly requalifying diamond, not on the system.
OK, I'll cut you some slack, just name 1 diamond who is still a diamond, not on the system.
Please provide a link. I am eagerly awaiting your reply. It's a pretty simple question to a simple little man.
Can you answer it?
Joe18 - I won't call you any names since you stayed pretty civil although you got a little sarcastic with "I guess if I was smart like you I would have driven from Hawaii to Oregon but I don't know how to do that.'
Joe, I wasn't saying you should have driven. I was saying that MOST people at 4000PV don't have the expenses YOU did. Most IBOs don't have to fly to their functions, most Drive. I've driven to Nashville, to KY, to Raleigh NC, etc. Thats it!
df, if you just watched it last week - that doesn't say much for you. But hey, I try to like all people even ones with low IQs, so if I don't like you, its not based on that, just your ignorant views of this business.
and Dawson, once again you just don't understand this business. $500 a month PROFIT for just buying thru yourself, having some members and clients, and a team coming on behind you, is more than worth it! Lets say my sponser had $1000 in expenses like Joe18 - that means last month he MADE, profitted over $2000!! For 10 hrs of effort, which includes stuff like Reading a book, making a phone call, and standing in front of a white board drawing circles?? Doesn't sound to damn tough to me. I'll do that for an extra $2000 profit, especially when in 2 more months he's gonna have a $5000 month (with his Platinum bonus). You just don't get it. He's got more time in than me, and one day not that long ago, his checks were only $10.
I never made income claims, as in promises, I just showed proof as to what some Have made. Its no gaurantee - its just FACT!
And rocket - do your own damn research - I don't care if there are any Diamonds not part of a training system that uses books or CDs. The point is, not being in the tools system can't Keep you from Being a Diamond. To go "Eagle", yes it requires a certain amount of tools - but Diamond does NOT!
Tonybot: You are an idiot, plain and simple. You have foregone the 'real' world of dollars and cents for some imaginary world of Eagles and Diamonds.
And you are paying for it to, you will lose your friends and family, your integirty and you could miss out on some opportunities at your J-O-B.
(How much does that bump to the fry machine get you, anyway ???)
As Bob Barker said in Billy Madison
"The price is wrong....bitch!"
Oh wait, that was Happy Gilmore....
Either way, I stand corrected and you are still a straight-up dork!
Hi Tony! How's my little ray of sunshine?
"And rocket - do your own damn research "
I did-I can't find one. That's why I asked you, Ninjabot.
So we go from"The tools would definitely help! but its not a Requirement to go Diamond!"
TO
"To go "Eagle", yes it requires a certain amount of tools - but Diamond does NOT!"
How's that? That sounds like you have absolutely no clue what you are talking about. Isn't going diamond just going eagle a bunch of times? I've heard diamonds describe it that way.
"I don't care if there are any Diamonds not part of a training system that uses books or CDs"
You should. Because there aren't any. If you were half as smart as you think you are, you'd probably ask yourself why.
Tony thinks we are all critical robots, Why would we be here Tony, to foul the water for potential IBO's...just for fun? Or because we
feel an obligation to ask for and tell the other side of the story?
The truth is I think most critics have had an experience that was a negative one, we have seen the dark side of the moon Tony and there aint no cheese there. We have that right to question, many were in the business and left and I feel their stories are even more valid and eye opening.
We are here telling our stories, spreading our experience, and in the view of IBO's tainting the pools of candidates...well that's too bad isn't it. A business that can't stand tall and proud against its critics is not much of a business.
I personally am a skeptic on business practices concerning mind control and deception. You dislike and attack that I spew ignorant questions such as;
Think about the consequences of your choices. Is robbing your friends, and their friends, and their friends...etc, worth it a few hundred bucks, a few thousand, millions, ANYTHING?
Now please pick out the one section of this that you want to argue, and I can't wait to see what insult you throw in as well.
"Men would say of him that up he went and down he came without his eyes; and that it was better not even to think of ascending" Plato- excerpt from the"Cave Analogy"
If you can't figure out a way to succeed, then you will not go far in any venture.
Read Jay Van Andel's autobiography and you will find out the character and work habit of successful people, and they just so happen to be a part of the Quixtar business. I think that is what draws people to it.
The WSA4400 plan is accurate. People are lazy, and rarely will extend themselves beyond their 9-5 job routine.
So, why should it work when 98% of people are already following this plan? (according to the Social Security Administration) Only the cream of the crop, the 2% in the entire population will beat the statistics. Which part do you want to be in? The Financially free or the dead and broke at age 65?
I'll strive for the 2% and lend a helping hand to any and all who will want to do something significant with their lives whether through World Wide Group / Quixtar or any other worthwhile venture. Thank you for your time.
Oh, here's another Amway genius spouting off ideas that aren't his own
"People are lazy, and rarely will extend themselves beyond their 9-5 job routine."
Says who, and who are you to judge how people choose to use their time? If someone helps out at a church or youth group but doesn't make $$ at it, does that mean they aren't extending themselves?
Another dead broke at 65 spew. SHUT UP!!! Show me a link that verifies that claim you ignoramous. I see the fear mongering worked with you. You must be very insecure if you think this is the only way to succeed.
I hate to burst your bubble pal, but you ain't even got a 0.2% chance of making it here with your little (ha ha) business.
When you have an original thought, be sure to share it, otherwise, we've heard it before. Word for tired old repeated word.
Geeze, rocket. Sure, the guy is spouting tapespeak and statistics that he's heard repeated so often he thinks they're true, but at least he was polite. I think we need to remember to limit our vitriole to those who have earned it.
Dave, who told you that 98% of people will be dead or dead broke by age 65? I'm sure you were told that number came from the social security administration?
That number is 70 plus years old, written at a time when indeed, the average life expectancy was under 65, so it is only logical that if most people don't live to age 65, then most people are in fact DEAD by then.
Also, even if that number were true, and only 2% of all people after age 65 were successful, that still begs the question: what's the rate of success in your current endeavor? And you can't say "well, I'm going to be above average", since you've already demonstrated, by quoting that bogus statistic, that you are indeed playing the averages.
The answer to my (perhaps rhetorical) question is that even less that 2% are successful, in any meaningful sense of the word, in Amway or Quixtar. Look at those numbers in really small print at the bottom of your own literature.
Tony,
Even if I had normal business expenses such as being able to drive to functions, I still would not have made a lot of money at 4000 PV. Even though my bonus check was just over $1000, after paying downline I was left with about $600 to $700. That's not bad, but with the amount of time it took to generate that money, and then
buying tapes $240/month, gas $50/month, $100/month average for local and major functions (let's not count the airfare for this argument). I'm basically putting in all my spare time counseling downline, showing the plan and running product call in and pick up. All said and done, I would be getting about $2 an hour for my time. I would have been better off working part time at jack in the box.
Only you really know what's on your schedule C. What you should ask yourself is whether your efforts are worth what you're getting in return? If not then quitting is a good business decision isn't it??
In my case, I was losing money at 4000 PV AND my upline told me to dump my fiance'
which made quitting an easy decision.
I also tried to figure out if I would have made money at direct as I was getting close and I came to the conclusion that I would not have netted enough to make it worthwhile, remembering that directs have extra functions, expenses, etc.
What say you Tony?
Can someone explain what they mean by broke at age 65? I know a lot of people over 65 who paid off their mortgages, take trips every other month, have good income from investments and pension plans.
And can someone give us a link that shows that 98% of people are dead or broke by age 65? I heard the amway speakers say it but I haven't seen any evidence of it.
Dave P> Which part do you want to be in? The Financially free or the dead and broke at age 65?
Imran> It's a lie spread by Ron Puryear and other scammers.
Mr. Puryear noted the study was found in the 1934 Senate hearings before the enactment of Social Security. The 20,000 study participants were all born before the American civil war.
And how come Ken McDonalds, who was never a Quixtar IBO retired at 55?
http://www.amquix.info/humor/retirement/retirement.html
And here is this Quixtar urban legend exposed.
http://www.amquix.info/amway_retirement_legend.html
See Michael, verifying facts is important. It's not rude, it's only fair. Many of us have lost money because we didn't.
Tony> Shag, and others... OK well first of all, the company as of last year is now at $4.2 BILLION in sales... that's SALES. Some idiot said "they don't even say if thats net or gross!"
IT SAYS SALES!! Thats total revenue, total sales, not Profit! >
well I must admit, thats a mix up the meaning of the words a bit, sry my fault, I did mean though, the company doesn't talk about profits overall anyway.
Sry for the confusion there.
Plus thax for the update, maybe you should tell quixtar to put that on their site. 3.1 billion compared to 4.2 billion is a big difference ya know. Hey can you keep us informed!? Maybe you can also tell us the number of diamonds and higher postion are above diamond are? and even actually the number of people in the business? That would be a very helpful numbers. Still haven't heard the number yet, and still waiting.
Tony> And as of 8/31/04 Qx has paid out over $1 BILLION to the IBO's- so I know they're making Some $$, plus the owners of the company own a private island, so I think they're clearing enough for theirselves too.
Okay, company started 1999, use your 1 billion to all ibos. convert to years, 200 mil a year. Hey whats the highest lvl for IBO!?
How many diamonds are there!? Come on really, give us the number. It would help all of us.
O yes the owners of the company own a island........oooooo ahhhh......yes because your all below them........and they making money off of you. Their volume makers
Though truefully, I don't care about the owners
Do you really think presidents and CEO are bad!? just because they make more money!?....But yet your owners are still making the money too!? alot of it also
Ceo's and president are evil because if the worker slacks off, the company will actually downfall. They take there job and evilness seriously. and lets face it, not all ceos and president or guys that make more money than us are half bad.
Anyway, I don't care about the owners to much, I care about the people below them. How are they doing. They making a profit!? Getting money, living!? eating drinking!?
May I ask you something, just answer them honsetly!?
How much money do you spend on them(quixtar), to like go to semiars, tapes, cds, books, travel cost.
OKay I'm not trying to insult you or anything.
I'm trying to find numbers and compare to numbers that quixtar gave.
Well you turn again =P
DF,
I am done commenting on this post. I am really sorry. I thought you people wanted to have an intelligent discussion, debate etc. But its not going to happen I see. Really kind words there DF, I am surprised you eat with that mouth. I am not going to respond the same way you talked to me. I will be the bigger man and walk away from this. Nice attitude people.
I think I am going to have to agree with joecool here. I really think it all has to do with reforming the systems and not making the business so cumbersome on people.
I do think you were buying waay too many tapes. I would just tell someone, Just stick with s/o, which now has been reformed to a monthly subscription package for the functions and cds. If you need to buy extras, they are a lot cheaper.
But anyway, I think in order to retain people in the system, it can't be such a drain on people's time and pocketbooks. Running halfway across the globe three times a year is also crazy. Maybe that worked in times past but in all reality that's not going to cut it anymore. Folks will just quit eventually with those expenses. But first you should have just stayed home. Too bad what your upline would have said. But the system has to reform or it will stagnate, which seems the case the last few year. I am not in favor in doing away with the systems altogether. After all, they serve a purpose for training and plugging new people into it. That's really what its for and where its the most valuable, to provide trainng and motivation for new IBOs, and not as an income tool for big pins. Nor to be a "church" or social venue for IBOs.
Oh I think df wanted to know something...
Well I'm tired and you know its hot out too. So I'm not going to say much more. But stay tuned, we gonna talk about Quixtar only diamonds next week!
You're right Big M, system gotta change. We're seeing effects in North American market. There have been some changes in prices of tapes etc.
BUT
Quixtar prices are rising real high! I became free / quit at May 2003 and now, OMG.
And carry too little PV! (Don't ask, I know how to log as an IBO while I'm not an IBO)
Great products are vanishing real fast. Seriously, many money saving concentrated products are replaced by fashionable energy drinks and bars.
Leave system, leave reputation, products are not good any more. Trendy crappy stuff. And real high prices!
Why you guys keep working hard on it is beyond me.
Michael> I am done commenting
Imran> Heard that before from you Michael! But I know you'll be back ;)
I guess there is a niche for certain types of products...xs and all. I am sure they do well for a lot of IBOs but eventually will run its course. Does seem like it has a lot of steam though.
But really, what built Amway was its core line products. Concentration. Biodegradability. There was some focus on environmental awareness for a while too, but not as much anymore. Products need to have some sort of unique selling proposition, not just more of the same out there. I think there's too much non-Alticor produced contract product that's way too generic. It makes the entire marketing scheme seem unfocused.
A side note, I tend to believe U.S. prices seem to be a little more in line, especially last year or two on general commodities and not so in Canada.
Well
There's a few minor mistakes.
There are 340,000 IBOs according to Quixtar. Also, according to Quixtar 66% are considered "active."
So the total number of "active" IBOs is not 270K but 224,400.
Multiply that by .000076 and you get 17 diamonds rather than 21.
To be fair though, you should also take into account those above "diamond." Again, you can figure out how many there are with Quixtar's own data.
Diamonds 0.0076%
Founders Diamonds 0.0018%
EDC & up 0.0042%
So there's 17 "Diamonds," 4 "Founder's Diamonds," and 10 "EDC & up." For a total of 31 high "pins."
Divide 224,400 by 31 and you get 7238 "active" IBOs for each "Diamond and above" in Quixtar.
Posted by: lawDawg | July 13, 2005 3:33 PM