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June 22, 2005
Who's Making Money In Quixtar?
By QBlog in Quixtar
PROLOGUE: I began writing the following post last night and finished it today during my lunch break. I ate at a "cyber cafe" and was able to publish while eating a tasty ham & cheese on rye. I mention this to explain that after the post went live, I immediately knew that I needed to revise it, add some more content and correct a few grammar errors. Now I've done all that and hope the effort has improved the post.
So who's making money in Quixtar? Are you making money? According to the Quixtar Average Income most IBOs aren't making any money after taxes and business expenses.
However, the Quixtar Newsroom reports that IBOs earned more than $373 million in bonuses and incentives last year. That's an impressive amount and I applaud Quixtar for moving roughly 34% of earned revenue back to its distributor force.
But let's examine that $373 million a little more closely, shall we?
Excluding money from motivational businesses (tool money) there are two ways an IBO can earn income from Quixtar:
- Bonuses and incentives ($373 million earned last year)
- Selling products at a markup (nobody knows how much was earned)
Why exclude tool money? Because the Quixtar opportunity is almost always presented as a source of residual income independent of any motivational money (with a few noted exceptions). Additionally, the tool money isn't "guaranteed money."
Markup
We know that IBOs earned $373 million last year in bonuses and incentives but how much did they earn from marking up products sold to customers? That's the mystery number and honestly there's no way to know. Anecdotally most IBOs I've contacted do not earn significant income from retail sales. If they do sell products, they often sell them at cost to boost their PV/BV.
Crunchy Numbers
Ok. Are you ready kids? Let's crunch some numbers! We begin with the $373 million paid out to IBOs last year. We're going to get "hypothetical" here so put on those thinking caps.
Out of $373 million, which is BEFORE taxes and expenses:
- 3,730 people could earn $100,000
- 7,460 could earn $50,000
- 74,600 could earn $5,000
Again, all that money is PRE-TAX and PRE-EXPENSES. And when you calculate the large bonus checks paid to people like Dexter Yager and Jody Victor that pool of $373 million shrinks significantly.
There's also another factor to consider. How do all the old-timers get paid? Those who worked "the biz" years ago but got out for one reason or another yet still continue to receive bonus money each year. Their Quixtar income is paid from that same $373 million pool. How many are there? 500? 1,000? 10,000?
How much do they earn, on average, considering that many of them built the business to a level that would ostensibly provide them with residual income? $5,000? $10,000? $50,000?
I'll pull a number out of the air and crunch it to see what happens. Let's say there are 2,000 "retired" IBOs who still receive a significant bonus check from Quixtar. How much is that annual check, on average? Let's say it's $40,000. That's significant, right? That comes to $80 million. Subtract $80 million from $373 million and you're left with $293 million. The bonus pool is draining.
Reality
The reality is that people are making money in Quixtar, but not many. Quixtar's own numbers demonstrate that fewer than 4,000 IBOs are even able to earn $100,000 each year.
Just sit and think about this for a minute.
Think about the fact that the business is marketed as a method to create residual income, income that can be passed down to your children.
Think about the fact that fewer than 8,000 people are able to earn a "living wage" (assuming $50,000 per year is a living wage) by working Quixtar without even calculating the cut distributed to the "retired" IBOs or taxes or business expenses.
Think of how many people are currently working Quixtar full-time as their only source of income? Right now, as you read this, fewer than 5,000 IBOs are earning $75,000 a year from Quixtar. It may even be as few as 1,000. And again, that's before taxes and business expenses.
Think about how many IBOs are in your Line of Sponsorship. How many of them are "retired" and how many have quit their J-O-B? How much money are they earning from Quixtar?
Think about taxes. Did you know a 30% tax on $373 million leaves you with $261.1 million? And that's with Uncle Sam being overly generous. The IRS usually wants a bit more than 30% of your income.
Odd Reality
Don't think this is about the "odds." This isn't about beating the odds or losing to the odds or personal achievement or anything like that. This is about reality.
The reality is that there simply isn't enough money paid out by Quixtar to support the image that's presented by so many IBOs. The reality is that this business works like it's consistently marketed to work ONLY when tool money is added into the equation.
How much money is made from the tools? Nobody knows. Those numbers will never be released without a court order.
Comments
That was one of the best articles you've written QBlog. It is bang on, and the way it was articulated was phenomenal. If those numbers are right, that is a sad, sad testament to Quixtar.
Seriously, Mike, M&M, Tony, doesn't that make you think, even for a minute? THE MONEY IS IN THE TOOLS!!!!!
Every tape/cd you buy, every function you go to, THAT is what creates the lifestyles portrayed in the Profiles Of Success (which you are NOT supposed to show to prospects).
I had never even considered the fact that there MAY be people still getting residuals. How old a company is it? There SHOULD be a lot of residuals being paid out, shouldn't there?
In order for them to be getting residuals, (overpriced) product would have to be moved by people waayyyy down in depth that still believe.
Not likely.
I give you applause on this one...I like it.
People who are getting residual income, without working, must be renewing their IBO numbers, means they are still ACTIVE. And have some specific structure, e.g. a non platinum will not be getting platinum bonus. So they must try to maintain a certain level to get bonus. Otherwise they will not get any.
But sure there could be few cases. Out of so many ppl it is possible that some one is getting a bonus without doing any thing. They might count as active IBOs though. What is the requirement of being active? Just renewing number or ordering some stuff from there as well.
I would like to see an IBO come and explain how this logic is flawed. This is an extremely astute deduction based on Quixtar's own numbers. A perfect example of how only looking at a large number can invoke a greed response "I want me a part of that $373M!" VS a reasonable "How many people have to share that and what percentage is it split by?" Good article Qblog, I think too few IBO's really understand the odds.
Meat and Potatoes!!!! Good post.
If 10 bowlers all go bowling and 5 of them bowl a 150, 3 of them bowl a 250, and 2 of them bowl a 300, that would be a total of 2100 points. Now in order for bowler 1 to increase his score from 150 to 250, does bowler 10 have to drop from 300 to 200?
Is it not possible for all 10 bowlers to improve? Right now they average 210 points - could they not all improve to bring their average to 280?? Then their total points would no longer be 2100 but 2800.
$373 million is just what we all earned last year. Its not a fixed number!! If we all go out and do better by 7% then we're at $400 million! You forget that the pot grows. It's grown for the past 5 years. It was only like $240 mil 4 years ago!
Not to mention 3700+ people at a 6-figure income?! How many of those are there at YOUR company? Are you one of them? Are you EVER gonna be??
Tony
Are you ever gonna be?
I doubt it. Yep, unlike Amway, the bowling game is fixed, there is a limit. BUT your logic about how everyone should just try harder is flawed. You really want everyone to try harder and take away your prospects?
Either way, you lose.
Tony, why can't you ever talk about AmQuix based on it's own merits? Why are you always trying to compare it to something else?
Tony>$373 million is just what we all earned last year. Its not a fixed number!! If we all go out and do better by 7% then we're at $400 million! You forget that the pot grows. It's grown for the past 5 years. It was only like $240 mil 4 years ago!
Fitz>And how much of a price increase for products has happened over those years? Don't forget about inflation too, which increases about 3 to 5% each year if I'm not mistaken.
Tony>Not to mention 3700+ people at a 6-figure income?! How many of those are there at YOUR company? Are you one of them? Are you EVER gonna be??
Fitz>Actually, a lot of people for my company make 6 figures, I work for Northrop Grumman. In 10 years I should be there or pretty damn close.
Hmmmm, Tony's post about the bowling average actually makes some sense. Each fiscal year the pot does indeed start at zero. And the 343 Million does not take into consideration that those "old guard" Amway IBOs most likely share in the International Amway Bonus pool as well.
Remember those pools are separate now.
That being said, Rocket's response of "You really want everyone to try harder and take away your prospects?" is also a factor. More recruits would seem to make the pieces of the pie smaller, IF the sales stayed the same or got smaller.
But neither point takes into consideration that elusive "retail factor".
Income can be derived by retail exclusive of the bonus pool, and MORE recruits are not necessary to increase sales.
In my experience, increasing sales per client is easier than increasing clients.
But, Qblog's number crunching seems to be a fair and balanced look at the current bonus pool, and IBOs can take those numbers and make a fair assessment of their abilities at grabbing a share of it.
It was nice piece of work.
While the bonuses aren't the only thing paid, yes, it is a nice pleasant look.
While I myself mostly retail, I can see my business expanding with people who are beginning to duplicate me -- its simply profitable...and now that my clients are starting to become accustomed to things like ditto delivery, I notice my retail volume going up.
My very first client ordered SA8 twice...then started looking at other SA8 products, and now uses over fourty products, including the XS and Nutrilite lines... so yes, I agree with the statement htat its easier to increase volume fmro a client you already have. (the best part about that is that after getting her to try the SA8, I NEVER brought up other products unless she asked me abvout them, and she thanked me for the 'no pressure' approach to letting her try the stuff)
Sh!t I think DaddyMustBeRight!!
Fitz, its called an anology - it helped make my point! You all acted as if thats all there was, no one could get more; someone must lose for others to gain. Its a fallacy - you want more, just move more volume!! Sorry I made your gerbel fall off the wheel.
And Rocket, thanks buddy!! ;) I wish you the best in your live's endeavors too :P
Thanks for the support Dave, you and I are more alike than most realize, but I sure catch a lot more flack.
I guess its because I go to conferences and read success books. [no not college] ;) I must be frickin weird! :P
Congratulations on finding a great customer. Now, go out and find ten like that. And teach each of your downline to find ten like that. Oh, you can't just "find" them, eh? There's some luck involved there, and of course that's an exceptional customer. The thing is, you're an exceptional "IBO" runing an exceptional group, whereas operating at a profit is exceptional indeed in Quaxtar.
Not that it isn't possible, you prove it is, but what's troubling is it's SO exceptional. When 80-95% of volume is self-consumption (I had 89% fall out the back end of a rather baroque calculation one time) you have MOST of the participants as net contributors to the bonus pool, and profit due to retail markup being negligible compared to the bonus overall.
The bowling scores are not a valid analogy. Of course, the top score is 300 so there's a hard limit, but the biggest fallacy is that there is no correlation between individuals' scores. Though the bonus pool may be growing, there is correlation, since whatever there is must be split so many ways. The point here is that as many pieces as that pie is cut, almost all of them are next to nothing. Double the pool. Go ahead. Twice of next to nothing still isn't much.
How does that growth adjust for inflation? I mean internal inflation, due to price increases from the corporation as well as external inflation we're all used to.
I've updated the post just a bit. Thanks for your responses. Now I'm going to read them.
;o)
Actually, 30% of 373 million is more like 111.9 million.
However, since the cost of doing business is so high, the net profit, which is the amount upon which the IBO is taxed, won't be anywhere near the amount reflected on the IBO's 1099.
Lest any IBOs jump for joy at the prospect of lower taxes, remember, the reason you aren't paying much in taxes is because YOU'RE LOSING SO MUCH! Saving on your taxes by decreasing your bottom line is not good business.
Thanks CK. I fixed it. I was trying to say that a 30% tax on the total resulted in that figure. the 119 minus 373 is 261 or something.
Anyway, thanks and it's fixed.
One thing QBlog doesn't look at in this post is time. What are Amway's/Quixtar's trends over time. And when you add in time, things look even bleaker.
There are currently about 300,000 active IBO's today. Thirty years ago, there were about 325,000. Average incomes for then direct, now platinum in Wisconsin 25 years ago was about -$1,000, and the average IBO the last few years has seen their average monthly income rise from about $88 to around $115. If working harder was the answer, the above numbers would improve significantly. Sure there may be a few lazy IBO's out there, but the numbers are abyssmal, suggesting simply working harder isn't working. There much be more to the story.
Qblog,
I think we are missing the one factor everyone seems to only guess at. How many IBO's are there? Everyone likes to quote theres roughly 300,000 active IBO's. Where do they get THAT figure off of quixtar's site?
Qblog, As an active IBO I have always questioned these figures that you posed. You make some very good points!
Also,
I like imanewme being on a common ground with me. Don't mean we have to like each other. ;-)
And what exactly are the Incentives and bonuses from? PV/BV? I would think the incentives and bonuses are something other than PV and BV. Those are factored into the retail prices.
QBlog -- this may be your finest piece yet.
Tapespeak Tony (or Analogy Anthony?) tried to make an anaology to bowling averages. This is ludicrous -- point being that you can't have a NEGATIVE score in bowling.
In A/Q, you have you have a lot (300,000+)
of people sharing in a $373M pie.
Some of those people are getting a bigger piece ($1M+) of the pie than others. Some people only get a grand; some only may make one single dollar.
...and some people go hungry.
If want an analogy, think about cannibalism.
If you don't want to get that graphic, think about Dawson's earlier quote of "Fleecing your own sheep".
I bet Dexter makes a big bonus cheque, but does Jody Victor??
Who are the Diamonds in his downline? Is he even a currently-qualified crown? Why has he never gone Crown Ambassador? He's been a Crown for, like, 25 years. Can't add 2 more legs in 25 years???/
Michael said:
"I think we are missing the one factor everyone seems to only guess at. How many IBO's are there? Everyone likes to quote theres roughly 300,000 active IBO's. Where do they get THAT figure off of quixtar's site?"
We found another piece of the proverbial common ground here, Michael. I've had this question myself.... maybe for slightly different reasons, but hey, it's still the same question. Going one step further, and this has been discussed at length in the forum, what on earth does "Active" mean??? The numbers are elusive at best and very subject to manipulation.
See folks, critics and supporters can get along... it just takes a little mutual respect is all.
Ima
The number of IBOs is 340,000 according to a Quixtar press release in October of last year.
That's where the number comes from.
Michael: "I would think the incentives and bonuses are something other than PV and BV"
Uhhhh . . . you DO realize that the "B" in "BV" stands for "Bonus," right?
;)
Michael: "I would think the incentives and bonuses are something other than PV and BV"
Uhhhh . . . you DO realize that the "B" in "BV" stands for "Bonus," right?
;)
Posted by: lawDawg at June 23, 2005 03:49 PM
Technically, the B stands for Business Volume according to my most recent copy of the SA-4400
Great post. A small handful of people can earn a moderate gross income.
But, even if you beat the long, long odds, and become one of the miraculous few grossing >50k. You still lose:
What about:
Business expenses? My company covers all my expenses for me to conduct business.
Medical insurance? Dental Insurance? Vision coverage? Life Insurance?
My company pays that too. How much do those cost to an "IBO"?
How about 401k matching plans? My company matches 4% of my contributions.
Stock Options? Employee Stock purchase plans? I make 10-25% of my income from these corporate programs.
Profit Sharing and Annual Bonuses? These are in addition to wages. Bonuses run from 12-30% of annual salary.
Other Benefits? Free corporate training programs? Grad school tuition reimbursement? Paid time off? Little stuff like free weekly lunches, subsidized workout facilities/cafeterias?
Sorry for the longwinded post, but the funny thing is that even the elite of the elite in Quixtar fall short of average Joes with J-O-Bs when you add it all up.
Ima asks, "what on earth does "Active" mean??? The numbers are elusive at best and very subject to manipulation."
The criteria for "active" is quite straight-forward, and almost too easy.
According to the current SA-4400:
"Active' IBOs: Based on an independent survey during 2001, "Active" means an IBO attempted to make a retail sale, or presented the Independent Business Ownership Plan, or received bonus
money, or attended a company or IBO meeting in the year 2000.
66% of IBOs surveyed in this period were found to be "active".
These criteria also determine a state of "inactivity" for the 6-Month Rule for changing a Line of Sponsorship.
My personal "beef" with these criteria is that they really don't set the bar high for "active", and I venture to guess that of those 66% only a 1/3 would truly be "active" in my eyes.
Before anyone says it, I just noticed the corporation changed "BV" to mean "business volume." Back when this was called "Amway" PV and BV meant "Point Value" and "Bonus Value" respectively.
Miachael> I think we are missing the one factor everyone seems to only guess at. How many IBO's are there? Everyone likes to quote theres roughly 300,000 active IBO's. Where do they get THAT figure off of quixtar's site?
Imran> Well there are sources
http://www.whataboutquixtar.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=79
http://www.whataboutquixtar.com/aq-images/mlive090304.gif
It may have been something different before 1996, but according to my Amway Business Compendium from 1996, BV is defined as "Business Volume."
PW
Chris:
Your comments are very astute. The benefits you mention are definately legitimate and substancial for guys like you and me.
How about guys like Em and Tony and Michael? I don't think they operate on the same business level in the 'real' business world....
...which is probably why they were swayed away from traditional business in the first place....
...which is why there are so many people in A/Q that are operating at a loss.
I was devastated to hear that one of my (ex?)friends that is wrapped up in this garbage is pulling his 401(k) to operate his 'business'
The thought of him flushing his savings and his kid's future down the crapper is just downright scary.
But I am sure the big pins will be glad to hear that their tool dollars should be increasing soon.......
But
Looking at SA-4400 I find the following :
"The average monthly gross income for active IBOs was $115"
and :
"Gross income : The amount received from retail sales, minus the cost of goods sold, plus the amount of Performance Bonus retained. (...)"
If I am reading correctly, the $115 includes retail profits which would be in addition to the $373 million.
I believe the crux of all of this is simple; most or all recruited IBO's are misled on the actual cash potential of this business. (I was told 60K in the first year on part time hours)
They are led to believe that the money is not only possible, but inevitable, IF they follow the system of there upline (ie tools). This may not be the case for every single recruiter, but I would argue that it is wide spread enough to spoil the whole pie.
To understand that this abuse occurs across the board in a company you work for/with and still continue as usual is the equivalent of seeing someone getting robbed by your friend and turning your cheek, because after all "its not me robbing them."
In this business its even worse, in this you bring your friends and family into the fold, setting them up to become either an accomplice or a victim.
The problem with this entire discussion is that the people that can't see the SA-4400 for what it is - a statement of the extreme concentration of income amongst the highest "pins" - will simply discount those figures as "irrelelvant" and "not something that will limit me". What they can't seem to grasp is that their "network" will (indeed must) have the same statisical distribution as indicated in the SA-4400. This means that the vast majority of those involved beneath them will not generate a positive cash flow.
It's all well and good to plant your feet and declare "I'm not average! I will be Diamond!" Hoo-ray...what about your organization? Your greed is virtually condemning them to losing money.
I have yet to hear anyone explain to my satisfaction why a retail / sponsoring of other retailers model is not preferable to the "networking" model. A method of growing the business where items of value are sold at a profit to actual customers, where people genuinely interested in business ownership approach YOU to ask how one would do what you doing.
Imagine - no lying, misleading, or coercion. Just motivated people working together toward a worthwhile goal in an ethical fashion, making a profit almost from "Day One". How cool would that be, instead of having to manipulate people into a position simply to tell them about "the business"?
Mike
Thanks, LawDawg for the sources and also Thank you to Dave Robinson for a definition of "active."
I must agree, it doesn't take much to be active, does it?
Why would this company want to set the bar so low?
In order to get a true indication of what people actually earn in amquix, they should take the median income (the middle of the rich and broke guys) or better yet, throw out the highest 5% of distributors and the lowest 5% or distributors. This will show you a better picture of what kind of income an amquix distributor can actullay earn.
I truly doubt there are any "retired" IBOs who receive bonus checks. You either work this business to death - day after day; or you take it easy and watch your business and bonus checks dwindle until they disappear. And your business MUST be "active" in order to receive a bonus - if it isn't - your bonus passes upline.
Deb
just a note: your tax theory is based on an employee of a business, not the owner of a business. Business owners have tax advantages which enable them to actually keep more money than their tax returns say they earned. So in fact, you can actually have a negative earned income for tax purposes while in reality you have a positive cash flow.
Sure. All you IBO's out there start running things your own way, like it really is your business.
The only one who has the jam to be honest about it is Robison.
All you IBO's out there go and send your diamond an email saying you aren't subscribing to his self serving tripe anymore because you are gonna run your business the way you see fit.
Then we'll see how much of it is really your business.
I understand what the miz is saying. It's a good and valid point.
Except they aren't employees, but they aren't really "business owners"either.
So what would they be called? No calling yourself an affiliate marketer Mikey. That's already an overused (overhyped) sucky name.
I'm not trying to be a smart ass this time, seriously. I don't consider the system slaves true business owners. But they aren't really employees either, otherwise they'd make SOME money at least.
Weird Huh!
Rocket, why in response to what the miz said, did you say, "except they aren't employees"?? That totally didn't apply. He never says that we Are employees. He's saying the opposite, that we're not- we're owners. What was your logic there?
And also, you can say ALL you want that we're "not really business owners" - well guess what, as far as the IRS is concerned we ARE! We have tax advantages that You as an EMPLOYEE do Not! You can say whatever you want. We are business owners, just as the guy who owns the McDonalds down the street from you is an owner too! He doesn't own ALL of McDonald's, but he owns His location(s), he owns His franchise! Just like I own mine! Thats why WE get tax write-offs, and you do not.
And Deb, thank you for adding to my belief that over half you critbots, simply Don't Know what you're talking about. "Retired" doesn't mean "inactive". You can "retire" from the business, but still get paid. You simply renew every year. It's $42 and you can set it to auto-renew, so you don't even have to do anything. If you had 3 emeralds and 3 platinums, you're a Diamond, and you're still gonna get your 4% bonus! And as they grow there business, your business is gonna get bigger, not dwindle! And with FAA points as those people move on to higher levels, you would too. Nine platinums is an "EDC", but if those 9 move on to Diamond, then you're a Crown Ambassador.
So yes, you can retire, you set-up auto renew, you put some products on Ditto, and you can literally do nothing!! If you chose to.
Hi Tony!
Do you have 3 emeralds and 3 platinums?
Until you do, I would not say what you can and cannot do at that level.
You own about as much of your business as I own of Nike for wearing their runners.
Sure, you have tax breaks........to a point.
http://www.mlm-thetruth.com/UtahTaxStudy.htm
Careful! Don't get too confident without making money!
Well then I guess YOU or DEB can't say what you can or cannot do at that level either!! Can you!?
I'm not a professional basketball player either, but Shaq is, and I know he can dunk the ball. Or should I not say pros can dunk, cause I'm not "at that level".
You're an imbecile rocket, and you don't know how the business works. You could techincally sponsor 6 people and walk away, just auto-renew, and have 100 PV on Ditto, if those 6 hit 7500 (Platinum), you ARE a Diamond and will be paid. You don't have to be a Diamond to know that - you just have to know how things work. Bill Britt is retired, not even doing functions anymore, he still gets paid.
I DO know how the (ha ha) "business" works. Even an imbecile such as myself understands the 70% rule. You don't.
Yes you COULD technically sponsor 6 people and walk away, pay too much for a bunch of overpriced product every month, and become a diamond. Without the tool system money, it's a moot point.
Scheibler was barely making enough to live on at emerald because he wasn't getting tool money.
So yes, it is technically possible.
It's also technically possible for an elephant to hang over a cliff with it's tail tied to a daisy.
That's more likely to happen than the scenario you have shown.
Have a great day IBO!
Tony, Did you just say that DEB doesn't know what she's talking about? That's funny. That's very funny.
I don't know what I'm more tired of hearing about: tool $$ or the 70% rule.
We show at Diamond you can make $150,000 a year from Qx and $100,000 from BWW. I can show you a copy of a Diamond's checks for 1 month for $124,000!! NOT FOR TOOLS! JUST FROM QUIXTAR!! Stop acting like they only make money off tools. $124,000 from Quixtar in 1 month shows me there IS big money from Quixtar! The biggest Growth Incentive bonus this year was like $300,000!
Also, the 70% rule is to stop IBOs from frontloading products to hit higher bonus levels. Their personal consumption counts toward the 70%. The only amount you HAVE to Retail is 50PV!! Why can't you critbots understand that!! If 50PV was 70% of your volume, you wouldn't even be at 100points and wouldn't even qualify for a bonus! You simpy have to MOVE 70%! (use or sell) You can't buy $2000 worth of XS just to hit Platinum, without being able to move 70% of it. The 70% rule does not pertain to Member/Client! The 50pv rule pertains to M/C. The 2 rules would contradict if 70% had to be RETAILED!
In order to get a bonus on downline volume you have to retail 50pv or $100 to M/C or have 10 seperate M/C. Thats it!
To think that an IBO using $300 of his own product, would then have to retail $700 a month to get a bonus is Frickin Rediculous! The FTC requires us to meet the 50pv rule to get a bonus- THAT'S what keeps us from being a pyramid. The movement of product to customers: 50pv or $100 worth a month!!
Tonybot> I can show you a copy of a Diamond's checks for 1 month for $124,000!! NOT FOR TOOLS! JUST FROM QUIXTAR!!
Alright Tony, name that tune! Show us the proof.
Scan it to QBlog and I am sure he will oblige us with your evidence.
Make sure you scan both sides, so we can see that the check was CASHED!
>> I can show you a copy of a Diamond's checks for 1 month for $124,000!!
Give us a rough estimate of how many Diamonds you believe are making this kind of money? Ballpark it. 1? 20? 50? 200? 250? Mathematically it can't be much more than 250.
By the way, that amount equals $1,488,000 per year BEFORE taxes and expenses. Not saying it's chump change, just putting it in perspective.
Do you know anyone making that kind of money outside of Quixtar? I do.
"To think that an IBO using $300 of his own product, would then have to retail $700 a month to get a bonus is Frickin Rediculous! "
Yep, it sure is.
What's even more ridiculous is that you aren't going to be able to back up your little claim RE diamond check.
I also know people (that I actually associate with on a regular basis) who make that kind of money. They sure as hell don't go around advertising it. It's called tact. Look it up.
The whole Amway perception of money is shallow, immature, and disgusting.
And the people I know who are that wealthy would say the same thing.
Why do these Amway guys feel the need to shove it in your face?
Compensating for something?
Hey Tony, that thing rocket just said has got to be THE FUNNIEST thing yet on this site!
They DEMAND DEMAND DEMAND proof of income. And when they are shown it, they bitch about how it's thrown in their face!
Dear M&M,
We've not SEEN proof of income, we've continued to read CLAIMS of income.
That's not proof.
IMO, what I read from rocket:
"The whole Amway perception of money is shallow, immature, and disgusting.
And the people I know who are that wealthy would say the same thing.
Why do these Amway guys feel the need to shove it in your face?
Compensating for something?"
Is spot on.
It's shallow to flaunt wealth, whether you are a big star, an heiress, or an Amway Crown. Yes, I said Amway Crown 'cause there aren't any Quixtar Crowns.
And these are the people that you want to be like?
Sad
Tony--we are waiting for that scam, er I mean scan!
When you ask for proof, Tony, Michael and M&M pretend as if they didn't hear it..... May be the cult programming is rining so loud in their ears, its difficult to listen to any " NEGATIVE" comments.
I wouldn't expect these characters to back up any of their claims. M&M, once I see proof of this little phantom check, then you can go on about how much money you can make in Quixtar all you want.
The reason people DEMAND DEMAND DEMAND to see proof is because it's not possible to do what you danny daydreamers claim. It's the same as someone checking out the books of a business prior to buying it. You know, not just believing that he'll be successful because he wants to?
If Tony does ask his diamond to help him out proving his claim, he's going to be disappointed. I would imagine the diamond's respose will involve about how he's got nothing to prove, and he wouldn't waste his time with us negative losers.
But he's here for you Tony! He will do whatever it takes to help you succeed!
Just don't ask for honesty.
I think Tony has a shred of dignity/decency.
Let's give him the chance to prove it:
TONY>I can show you a copy of a Diamond's checks for 1 month for $124,000!! NOT FOR TOOLS! JUST FROM QUIXTAR!!
Do it Tony, show us!
Ok, post your email or send me an email @ tonyqibo@yahoo.com and I'll send you the .pdf. I don't have to ask my Diamond for it - he already faxed a copy to my Ruby who gave it to my sponsor who gave a copy to me! Its not to rub it in our face! Its to show us (and others) that there IS money to be made.
It is hilarious and pathetic how the critbots Demand proof - and then say its shameful that they show us checks!! You people are pathetic!
He didn't go around advertising it! He passed it on to a leader on his team!! I feel so sorry for you people who truly believe that i'm lying, that no Diamond could make $120,000 in any given month, that they MUST make that money from tools, there Can't be that much $ from Qx - well sorry guys, there is good $ from Quixtar too, when you build a big business.
But honestly, whats going to change when you see the checks that total for $124,208.44 from last December?? Are you simply going to stop? Are you going to admit that Diamonds can make good $$ other than tools? No! There's no way!
I can tell you now what will happen - people will say I want to see the real check, not a scan (even though they just asked for a scan) - they'll say "its fake!" "Even if its real - its still a scam!"
You people are simply negative. Heck there's already copies of checks from big pins on the net, for much more than $124,000! What will make this time different??
You people will NEVER believe. You think on order for someone to make big $$ someone had to lose big $$ - WRONG - you get paid for whatever level you're at!! The guy who owns 50 McDonald's make more than the guy who owns 1. But BOTH get paid for what they've created! Same with Qx - little business=little bonus.... Big business = Big bonus!
Tonybot:
I suggest you switch to decaf. You are taking a lot of different comments from different critics and painting with a very broad brush.
That is MUCH different than hearing the same thing (tapespeak) from different ambots.
You can dispute this all you want. Go ahead, I am sure it will drive the thread to 100+ posts.
I really don't care. Send the PDF to QBlogs address at this site. I am sure he can handle it from there.
Make sure you show both sides too--anyone can write a check that never gets cashed -- right????
df, you are a moron. My Diamond didn't write the check, Quixtar did! and I'm pretty sure he signed the back and cashed it. Since he just bought a 1.9 million dollar home, I'm pretty sure he did.
df> You are taking a lot of different comments from different critics and painting with a very broad brush.
T> you wanna explain that comment? whats your gripe now, that I'm addressing what what critbots say??
Let's just see the check. I hope it's not just a check for initial qualification, or made out by someone other than Quixtar.
Fire it off to QBlog. I'm sure he'll be happy to post it.
I am assuming that none of that amount was distributed to any of the group, and that it's all profit, No?
Whoever made this site is uninformed, retarted, and most likely a very negative person who didnt put in the time or effort to make something happen. I have spoken to huge, and small people in this business. Im sorry it didnt work for you dude., but dont be hating on the people that did do it and are doing it. There are more platinums than McDonalds in this business and more Q12s as well...
Quixtar is a Vehicle to help the people that coudnt make it, make it in this country. Why are you going to attack it negatively. I dont even know what your argument is.
your a dumbass becus im a afflent with quixtar and under a year from being registered i make a sifficate amount of money...not from tools are seminars, oh and by the way if you can make money that way whats wrong with it??? oh and the goverment doesnt take 30% your facts arent right so i had to stop reading, oh yea im a account so i know about taxes
I dont care who gets the money, as long as I get my share of the money Im happy with Quixtar.
Heck, even WITH court order... to pry loose what records (still) exist, suit or charges would have to be filed against EACH recipient of payments, "tape break" etc, many long gone. By the time you could untangle the cooked books and obfuscation, there's still a big unknown: how much cash left those functions in suitcases and where that all went. Oh wait, these are the most honest, ethical people in the business world; I'm sure it was all reported as income!
Posted by: Bystander | June 22, 2005 7:31 PM