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June 27, 2005
Monday Reader Mail: 49
By QBlog in Reader Mail
Sometimes Reader Mail can be almost poetic in its simplicity and profundity.
name: Toya
date: June 25, 2005
message: What Do you do for a living now that you're not in quixtar.
That's great question even if it doesn't end with a question mark. What do I do for a living now? Well, let's see. I have bright red grocery cart full of cans that I push around while asking motorists for spare change. Sometimes I sit in the park and scream at the pigeons because I know their dark, insidious secrets. And occasionally I stop by the local library to freshen up, post to this blog, answer emails and read Highlights for Children.
Indeed, my life has taken a downward turn since my exit from everyone's favorite MLM but this is the life I've chosen and I make due the best I can. Thanks for writing Toya!
Comments
Correction on previous post,
I would save $1, not $10.
Sorry
I'm facinated that no one here has noticed something rather fundamental. Qblog was never an IBO... only his wife. Does that make Qblog an IBO by default or am I the only one smiling at this Monday Mail because of that detail?
What DON'T we do I think is the better question. I only work about 8 hours a day now, I used to work 16+ in A/Q. I used to not have the time to spend with people who need it. Funny, this weekend, I spent time playing games and riding speedboats, hanging out with some kids, and talking about life in general. I was not under some undue pressure to 'prospect' all the people I didn't know.
Professionally, I am a scientist. The average salery in my field is higher than the elustrious Emrald producer can make. I make my own schedule for the most part, can take days off, though not too many (just like A/Q, if you take too many days off, your business sinks). I wake up without an alarm clock (I sleep right through it really, I LIKE getting up early, I just don't often do it). I meander into work sometime in the morning. Go home for a while for lunch, come back to work until about 5 or so, sometimes I catch a baseball game, hang out with friends, sometimes I come back to work in the evening, but otherwise, I live a very low stress life and make a LOT MORE than your average A/Q IBO (Of course, working in a local fast food resturant will give your more than the average A/Q IBO makes)
QBlog,
Shame on you for toying with toya like that...
Some thing wierd with the comments. Time stamp is all wront and some of the inititial comments are gone. The first comment quote some one else's comment and it's not there!
The question Toya, and the rest of the faithful, need to ask themselves is this:
How many people ARE ACTUALLY making a DECENT (note I didn't say extravagent) living from Quixtar.
?????
I'd like to hear the answer to that one.
Ahhhh.......Highlights for children. I spent many an hour reading that when I was a kid.
Goofus thinks he can get rich by people buying expensive inefficiently moved products because somebody he doesn't know said so.
Gallant thinks for himself and tells his new best friend to pound sand when he realizes that it's a lost cause which almost guarantees him failure.
Who said Toya was an IBO?? She just asked a simple question and qblog makes a joke out of it. Seriously, I think all people pro or con, would like to know what you do for a living. You're a writer aren't you? For a magazine or an e-zine? Do you get paid for any advertising on this site?
Oh, and X, I can think of some other things you don't do. You don't show people a better way to live. You don't help marriages by giving the couple a common goal to work on. You don't wake up whenver you want, to do whatever yoyu want (on a weekday;) You don't go to Peter Island once a year, all expense paid. You don't go to Diamond club in Hawaii, all expense paid every year. You don't go on the Q-12 trip, or "Go Diamond" weekend, every year, all expense paid.
You don't get a check in the mail every month for things you bought or things your member/clients have bought. And you don't get any type of commission when you shop at Circuit City, Barnes&Noble, Disney, Sony, etc.
And you never will.
I have to agree with Tony's first statement. I thought the reader was just asking what you do for a living out of curiousity.
Tony said: "You don't get a check in the mail every month for things you bought or things your member/clients have bought. And you don't get any type of commission when you shop at Circuit City, Barnes&Noble, Disney, Sony, etc."
Actually, in the UK at least, the money off vouchers I get from supermarket loyalty points tots up to a lot more than I got back for my own purchases in Amway. And I didn't have to spend as much to get the same amount of products.
"You don't help marriages by giving the couple a common goal to work on."
That statement is amazing. Really.
But I do aggree with Tony on one point... I was actually looking forwards to hearing what he does for a living. :)
quixmire,
I think you made a really valid point, BUT, my question to you is, what is considered a "decent income" in quixtar to you?
Tony>You don't show people a better way to live.
You think the Quixtar life is better because your upline says so. But IT'S not!! You're being deceived if you think so.
Tony>You don't help marriages by giving the couple a common goal to work on.
The Quixtar goal, presented the way you describe with free trips, etc., has a one percent success rate. That sounds like a gamble with horrible odds. Gambling doesn't help marriages.
Tony>You don't wake up whenver you want, to do whatever yoyu want (on a weekday;) You don't go to Peter Island once a year, all expense paid. You don't go to Diamond club in Hawaii, all expense paid every year. You don't go on the Q-12 trip, or "Go Diamond" weekend, every year, all expense paid.
DO YOU? WILL YOU EVER?
WAKE UP, MAN!
Hey BHJ, I will one day!! And I know people right now who do! Say what you want, I'll say what I want. I wish you the best too!
xanadustc wrote:
"Of course, working in a local fast food resturant will give your more than the average A/Q IBO makes"
dude, working as a volunteer for the local red cross will enable you to financially be better off than being the average IBO. At least being a volunteer you're not LOSING money!
Is there a Highlights for Adults? Is it dirty?
ima>I'm facinated that no one here has noticed something rather fundamental. Qblog was never an IBO... only his wife.
Imran> he was, technically. Not by his choice though.
I think Toya asked the wrong question.
Anyway, she should of asked, "What Do you do with all your spare time now that you're not in quixtar."
Here's a good answer QB: I'm doing something meaningful. Recycling is very productive - and it benfits everyone who lives on this planet. It's good to remind those comfortable people driving around in their nice cars about the less fortunate. Not everyone is naive and blindly ambitious enough to be a successful quixtar I.B.O. Someone's got to keep those pigeons in line, too! Evil bastards.
After giving up my last 16 years in A/Q I am now coming out of retirement. I had to look hard but I found my glove (I think it me be dry rotting) and went to the old ballpark last night for practice. I didn't even feel guilty about it. I woke up this morning feeling pretty bad because I haven't thrown or hit in a while and I was sore. I gave up so much that I enjoyed for A/Q that it really pisses me off now. Thanks QBlog for going to the library and learning how to blog!
Hey guys, I just got back from a long-weekend vaca with the wife. Guess what, I went to the Keys and had a great time on my own dime!
I have developed this great system called "Saving Your Money". In this system, you spend less than what you make. After a period of time, you have an accrued amount of money, called "Savings".
These 'Savings" can be used to go on vacation, or send your kid(s) to college, or even to retire from your job!
Granted, when I went to the Keys, I didn't get to sit in on a bunch of meetings, nor did I get to stroke-off my upline; but I thought it was pretty great nonetheless.
If you want more information on my savings plan, send me $6 and I'll send you a motivational CD to get you fired up about the plan.
Send all inquiries to df@getaclue.com
Wow DF, how did you get out of all those meetings that you usually have yo attend when on vacation?
Would you say, without being judgemental, that this is better? I mean the fact that you didn't have someone plan your trip for you, and you got to choose where you go?
Hope you had a carona for me.
xanadustc wrote:
"Of course, working in a local fast food resturant will give your more than the average A/Q IBO makes"
Actually, working as a volunteer for the local shelter will also enable you to be better off financially then if you were the average quixtar IBO. With the former scenario, at least you're not LOSING money!!!
Sorry for the double posting. I didn't realize QBlog changed the format, and I was wondering why my post wasn't appearing at the top of the page.
Careful df, those Timeshare companies don't like it when you skip out on their meetings ;)
Oh, and my advise to IBOs is delay somethings to do your business, but do some of them every once in a while, so you don't burn out, and then become a bitter, former IBO, mad that you didn't hunt for 3 years. Check upline of course. But if 1 hobby is riding dirtbikes, ride dirt bikes, but wear an XS jersey and talk to some people about your business. "Just live your life", but make good use of the time. 2 birds, 1 stone.
I thought the way the question is worded was pretty telling..."what do you do for a living NOW that you're not in Quixtar"?
Toya, the vast majority of IBOs do NOT do it for a living, they have a job, which provides their living, and in many if not most cases also supplements their Quixtar 'business'. The smart ones are doing retail, and breaking even or making a few bucks on the side. Most are losing money every month on system expenses, babysitting, and paying double for over-priced products that the system tells them they must purchase 'from themselves'.
How many people who are in Quixtar actually do it "for a living", as in, it's their exclusive source of revenue?
Of course, that's a rhetorical question, since we know there is no way to determine the answer.
My hypothesis, based on Quixtar's numbers, is that it is less than 3000 (the approximate number at emerald or above). At that level, you could be making about 75K if you were very smart and doing plenty of retailing and were not involved in a 'system', an income that after tax (including that additional 7.65% self-employment tax) could indeed support a family.
However, I suspect that most IBOs at that level are also on a system, greatly reducing their net profit, and one spouse or both has some kind of job to supplement the Quixtar income.
Hey Tony! Thanks for the laugh:
"Check upline of course."
Yeah, for sure check upline, and if they tell you that you need to focus on your business and not to waste your time on the frivoulous pursuits you enjoy, I guess they're right. Right? If not, then why would you have to check upline, it's your business, right?
But if 1 hobby is riding dirtbikes, ride dirt bikes, but wear an XS jersey and talk to some people about your business.
And THAT is precisely why people get so pissed off at you people. (Yes, I said you people). Why can't you do something for the sake of doing it, and not have an ulterior motive? Yeah, I'm sure all the dirt bikers want to talk about selling Amway crap. (you're supposed to - 70% rule!)
When people go dirt biking, they want to dirt bike, not talk about some pie in the sky rinky dink business.
Jeez Louise.
CK, could you please tell me what the system expenses are at emerald level in WWG?
Thanks.
Hello all, and to the na sayers good luck with the 40 yr plan.
Quixtar is a business just like your local walmart, it is based on volume. We do our business online and tell others the same. Just as i tell someone there is a sell at walmart, i can also tell you about what im involved in to save or mk money. Tony said check up-line its because that person has something he wants, freedom. There is no diffirence in a person who owns a succesfull (key word succesfull)Mcdonalds to be asked a question from another owner about saying or doing the right thing for their prosperity and longevity.
Every company we know today is going to the web we just have a head start.Curcuit city, Barnes and Nobles, and the other companys involved with Quixtar have legal teams that research before doing any deals inorder to protect shareholders. Now maybe you found something they over looked.
Well thank you all for your intrest or disintrest and good luck for whatever you do or dont do, and remember most average people are just that, average. To have success with anything you may have to be more than average or do more than average people.
Rocket, I'm glad you got a laugh ? I said check upline, cause if some new guy reads this, I'm not that guys mentor. He needs to consult with the guy working with him. He doesn't need to necesarily DO what that guy says, but he shouldn't just be listening to my tips.
Also, not everyone is an @$$ like you, wait let me re-word that: not everyone is a jerk like you, no wait - not everyone is negative like you - there, thats the nicest way I could express that. You must be a real pleasant guy to be around. People must really gravitate toward you and your personality. What is your problem with an IBO enjoying an afternoon riding dirtbikes and also giving out somes XS samples, passing out some business cards, or trying to create some business. Just because YOU don't like talking to people you don't know doesn't mean everybody is like that.
I know alot of people who were stopped by a stranger and "prospected" and now are very thankful that someone took the time to ask them.
And who says it has to be an alterior motive. Who said the IBO can't have fun participating in a hobby AND making good use of his time. Some IBOs would say don't waste time doing hobbies, build it big, then do it first class - and that has worked for a lot of people, but a lot of people get burned out and then become bitter critbots.
So I'd say don't do it as much, devote some time to doing your business, but when you do go out and golf or play paintball, make good use of your time. There's nothing wrong with that. IBOs, you might meet the occasional jerk like rocket, or you might meet your next platinum!
Also CK, what system expenses are you talking about? An $8 CD once a week, $31/month for 'Kate, their $15 IBO website, the $3 for the weekly meeting?? I don't think any of That is going to "Greatly reduce" the net profit of an Emerald!! At Emerald there are more profits From the system than expenses!
Most couples at Ruby, the wife is retired. Most Emerald couples, BOTH are retired! And if your at Emerald AND "do Plenty of retailing" - you're probably making alot more than $75,000. Mike & Jana Waechter made $370,000 last year at Emerald, and I don't think they're retailing $300,000 worth! I know a few local Emeralds that are all over $100,000 a year, without doing a huge amount of retail. A RUBY with a Good amount of retailing would probably make $75,000.
Will-bot:
Thanks for the tapespeak. That is something we have never heard before. It is refreshing to hear some original thoughts from an ambot, er, IBO, like yourself.
Good grief.
If average people produce average results, then what does your corrupt upline produce?
What you reap is what you sow.
And yeah, I already know what you are gonna say.."My upline isn't corrupt, my upline is different."
Blah, blah, blah.
Tonybot:
Keep paddling that canoe, bro. While you are talking about living 'the life' I AM DOING IT. No timeshare salespitch to get me to the Keys, just a little work and a little saving (see my previous post).
You get-rich-quick guys should be taking notes : take your time, enjoy the journey, act with integrity.
From what I see -- you 'bots are 0-3.
df, either I'm good or you're starting to sound like a broken record yourself, cause as I was reading your post, I thought "who is this - I bet its df", then I scrolled down and sure enough - df. It seems you have your own tapespeak too, and you rip on Will for not having original thoughts.
Its funny how you really don't have any solid arguments. Either you're pointing out a spelling error, or trivializing someone's arguments as "tapespeak" or telling me to "keep paddling".
Maybe You should have been taking notes during the plan, cause we say - its NOT get rich quick!! It takes WORK!! We say it, every week!! But I guess you still had water in your ear from the Keys.
So save some money and then go to the Keys. So how's that working for the rest of you. CK, mlm, JD, Keith - you guys all saving enough to go to the Keys once a year? Well since you guys like Stats and Averages so much, does anyone know what the national average savings is?? It's NEGATIVE!! Most people Spend more than they make!
So you seem to be in the minority there df. And I'm glad your happy with a trip to the Keys. I used to vacation to Panama City and Myrtle Beach, just like EVERYBODY else.
How bout you check out PeterIsland .com - see how much 1 week costs in one of the Villas. See how Peter Island Resort rates among other beaches - then tell me you'd rather go to the Keys (when you've saved enough $$) vs. going all expense paid to Peter Island every March, and Hawaii everyone Jan., and Orlando every Feb, and the Q-12 to Vegas, or Florida, or a Carribean cruise every Oct. I think I'll take the Yacht - you seem to be the one paddling the canoe! :P
Tony
Honestly ask yourself, are the comments Will just posted almost identical to your own the first time you posted on this site. Or, was it M&M or any of the other Ambots.
The point, is he said the same things you all say...thus the term "tapespeak". How can two or more people who don't know each other say and have the exact same opinions? People who have no original thoughts and just repeat what they heard on a tape or in a meeting; simple minds, simple thoughts, simple logic. Pathetic, really.
No, I can't afford to go to the Keys once a year - yet. We are still recovering financially from this great business. :P The good news for us, is that we are finally focusing on something that can actually provide us with money to take vacations, have hobbies and buy another house someday - our very neglected careers. Personally, I'm happier now that we're out, than I've been in a long time. I feel like we're finally headed somewhere with our lives and not fighting a losing battle anymore.
My former upline Diamond told me that they don't get to go to Peter Island every year. In fact, he told me that if you want to bring your kids, you have to save up "points" by skipping your turn!
Our upline was such a blabbermouth, I'm sure he wasn't supposed to tell us that. :)
Yay Tony! I knew you'd keep going!
Yep, old Wil Bot there is one in the same. 40 year plan or not, it's better than Quixtar.
Every year my wife and I go for a week to the Carribbean. Cash. (Except last year because my wife couldn't fly the last 10 weeks of pregnancy) I'm not so sure I'm the minority and would be VERY interested in seeing where that little statistic came from.
I'll pick where I go, thankyouverymuch, and I won't go somewhere for the sake of going somewhere because Amway or some rinky dink business (ha ha) "leader" says I should go there. says it's great.
I look forward to you "qualifying" for all those trips. I'll qualify myself thanks.
Actually, it's funny that you judge me the way you do. Many colleagues and friends do enjoy spending time with me, and I enjoy spending time with them. I haven't been called a jerk lately, not any snotograms saying that I'm a @$$. Maybe your (ha ha) "business" brings out the worst in people.
Or just you.
df did you stay at Cheeca Lodge? It's a little haul trying to get down to the Keys unless you're living in Miami? Must have went fishing, not much for beaches there.
X> "The petty little island is a waste of time.."
Ummmm, I don't think so there xanadustic.
Further, you have no clue what is even discussed there. You'd rather just pass bitter judgements. Obviously you know nothing about the resort either, which, by the way, is ranked in the top destinations by Conde Nast and Travel/Leisure. Be careful how you make judgements, even about the "petty" things.
Everyone really should check out peterisland.com. I did so today. Nope didn't seem petty to me. And no, there were no pics of big pins. I really can't understand all your petty bickering about an amenity provided by the corporation to people who have grown the business. Lots of corporations and sales organizations award trips to top producers. Do any of you have a problem with a new diamond pin being awarded a trip to Peter Island? If you do, tell me why, specifically, what the problem is. My God, you critbots always manage to lose credibility after you might make a halfway credible case in some of your discussions.
And then I asked the question earlier how much an emerald is spending on the system in Worldwide. No one answered. I guess NOT ONE OF YOU CRITBOTS KNOWS!
People that are still deep into A/Q need to get alone and take the time to study and do research for yourself ,without talking to your upline and think about all the facts that are available on the internet. Then you will see things you have been told aren't so.
Hey Tony,
How many Quixtar only Diamonds (those that didn't start in Amway) have been invited to Peter Island?
Oh, that's right. There aren't any:)
I wonder how many people joined Quixtar in the past five years thinking they would be the ONE to go. I wonder how many of those quit after learning there wasn't a snow balls chance in hell that they were going to make it. I wonder how many of those people wish they had never become involved in "the business"?
Ohhhh yaaaawwwn... more "critspeak" from Kendall. Can't anyone come up with anything original to say once in a while?
Answer the question M&M. Because of brainwashed people like you peddiling this, the kinpings scum are enjoying the "SYSTEM" money.
Just answer one question that Kendal asked. " HOW MANY QUIXTAR ONLY DIAMONDS EXIST?"
Still waiting.........
emminemm, you're gonna feel like such an a-hole when you wake up from your Quixtar induced dream. Good luck with that.
M&M,
I knew about Peter Island before you knew A/Q existed. I once, possibly like you now (if you are following upline), had pictures all over my house. I had over 350 pictures of Peter Island, Fast hot cars, big houses, and all the materialism that goes with it. In retrospect, it was a freakhouse!! Do you know uncomfortable people were in there? To quote Dave Severan, "The world will think you are a NUT! Who cares...they won't be with you in diamond club!"
When I say it is a waste of time, I mean that I spend my vactions truely spending time with people in UNCONDITIONAL love (you don't have that even if you think you do. All your love is conditional on your people being there in your group or crossline in the business). Look at the reports and statisitics, there is more HARM in this system than any good that comes out of it.
So what do I do? I am taking three days off next week to be a camp councelor for a group of kids in the middle of the woods just to hang out and spent time. I will do the same thing at the end of the summer for a week on top of coordinating a section of VBS and spending a few hours once a week with a local child in a mentoring program.
These kids can't pay me money, and it is not my motivation. I don't go there to contact people (not even the adults who are there helping). Money is NOT the measure of service you render to yor fellow man, like Bill Britt says.
X: Good luck and enjoy your time at VBS. As a little league coach, I know the joy that comes from helping and influencing young people. It is the greatest job in the world.
Ambots: I don't need Peter Island. I have the rest of the world to enjoy. Like I've said before, I've done the Bahamas, Hawaii and the Virgin Islands (and now I can add the Keys to my list!)
And the thing is, I am enjoying it, RIGHT NOW.
While you are in a cheap franchise hotel, wasting your weekends at seminars and house plans, I am outside with my friends and family!
While you are dreaming of some artificially-instilled materialistic plan, I am actaully executing the 5, 10 and 15-year plans that I set for myself.
Which sounds better?
Wake up! Live life the way YOU want!
DF,
Congrats, you are living the life YOU want. Hey thats what I teach, DUH! Just because we teach a "system" doesn't mean you can't be an independent thinker, or doer. The goals of the system, is NOT to rip people off, but to show them how to free up their time, and become financially independent to be able to travel, etc. My goal isn't to travel, but to make sure I am healthy. I could care less about Peter Island, etc. So, I have to tell you df, again congrats, you figured it out.
To answer Toya, I am an Independent Business owner first and formost.
Thank u all for your comments.
If we all go to the same class on geomotry we will probably have the same answer on a test, so where is the original thought in that.
It upsets me to know that people have not been successful in some ventures and then blame others instead of saying that didnt work for me, but i wish u success. Ibos have nothing against jobs or other ventures but if i am spending anyway money it will not hurt me to save on that money or profit from it. That is all were suggesting. I have made about 15,000 with a company doing Gift Incentives threw quixtar and i couldnt have had that opportunity otherwise. So when i say 40 yr plan its not to say that is a bad way, im just trying something else.
will
Lord, Will, would you PLEASE run spell check?
The amazing thing about 'bots like will is that they just don't seem to get it! Go for the retail- YES. Use Q as a "wholesale" source if you've got a market for it- a resounding YES.
But for cryin' out loud, ditch the tapespeak mentality! You don't need it to build a wholesale/retail business! If you can successfully sell enough to make 15K in profit, potential IBO's will come TO YOU- without the 40/40 plan, the 2-5 year plan, or any of the other crap your tools pimp feeds you!
WAKE UP!
"Lord, Will, would you PLEASE run spell check?"
Hey old man, maybe you could tell people on your side to do the same, especially your highly educated scientist friend.
Will>i am spending anyway money it will not hurt me to save on that money or profit from it.
X>You must be new to even reading these; I have been posting price comparisons for a long while about that fact that the common every day renewable items that you get from Quixtar are significantly higher than prices at the local grocery store. Yes, as Tony is quick to point out, you can get a few items for a few bucks less, but overall, the regular daily consumables are what the business is founded on, hence "Redirect buying power" and "Buying things from Quixtar that you would ordinarily buy form someone else". I won't list all my comparisions again, but I will repeat that nothing is cheaper from Quixtar that I can get at the local store (and I am comparing quality as well).
Well, M&M, since you asked twice, I'll tell you what I know about emerald income:
According to BWW, AVERAGE Emerald income was about $74,000 in 1995. Let's say that number is now $85,000 for inflation. Tony says he knows emerald making $300,000 year just from Quixtar, so there must be a whole lot of impoverished emeralds out there to balance that out...?? But here's a real life, documented example of Emerald expense:
The records of Dean Kosage's divorce (one of the few places one can find the full truth about any of these check-waving 'pins'), when he was a Founder's Emerald, show monthly 'business' expenses (it doesn't break down which were system and non-system expenses) of $13,355 a MONTH. That's $160,000 a year. Even if only half of those expenses are due to the 'system', that's $80,000 a year.
That's a chunk of change.
CK, your #'s are from '95 - that's 10 years ago!! first of all the busines has grown since then. At one time they showed Diamond at $60,000! And you only raised it $10,000 to compensate inflation? Let me clue you in a house that sold for $74,000 in 1995 is gonna go for a little more than $85,000 in 2005. But even if the average emerald is making $85,000, thats not too bad - help 3 people hit Platinum and make $85,000 a year?? Not bad!
Oh but then there's taxes taken out of that. Ooooh, but not as much tax as your boss making $85,000 has to pay, cause an Emerald is gonna be able to write off a portion of their mortgage and cell phone and gas mileage and lunches, etc. and won't be paying tax on that full amount. Its not how much you make, but how much you keep.
Spell check is not that important, u know what im talking about. Sorry if my tapespeak bothers you but the fact is i enjoy what i do in Quixtar. I could also go out and invest in a store front and sell product and make money, but if the system works use it. If private or public franchising is so bad there are alot of companies in trouble.
People get into business to mk money i could care less if someone mks money off of my tools. If that is a good excuse not to do something then dont do it. All companies get paid off other peoples efforts, does not matter if its private or public. If its not quixtar than its lcn or prepaid legal. Why develop something and not get paid for it? If i sarted any one of these mlms there would be a built in incentive for me as well, but that is not going to stop you from making money.
will
Mikebot>Just because we teach a "system" doesn't mean you can't be an independent thinker, or doer.
Oh yeah? Tell your upline you want to develop your own tools system to educate and motivate your downline.
Tell your upline you don't need to hit the next major function because you want to have some private time with your family.
Tell your upline that you don't want to stay for the night owl so you can go home and get a good night's sleep for once.
Or are there other independent thoughts/ideas that you are interested in?
Share those with us and tell us how they went over.
I am extremely curious to know how it goes!
Uh, Tony...word up, dude. There is no financial benefit to paying for things and then deducting the amount from your taxes. Paying for cell phone (which must meet the greater than 50% rule, since it is considered listed property) minutes you wouldn't otherwise need, and then not having to pay TAX on that amount is not nearly as financially beneficial as just NOT PAYING FOR THEM in the first place.
The portion of a mortgage that could potentially be written off (assuming the regular and exclusive use criteria are met) is recaptured as a capital gain on the sale of the home. See, the sale of the business portion of your home does not qualify for the exemption. PLUS, you can't double-dip, so you can't deduct on your Schedule A the amount of your mortgage you're deducting on shedule C. So it's a wash, unless you're so broke you're not claiming actual expenses anyway.
Speaking of expenses...
Did you read the part about the Kosage's expenses? That they totalled $160,000? I notice you didn't mention that in your amazingly savvy comparison of ten year inflation rate to residential real-estate prices. You do realize that a) real-estate prices fluctuate wildly with market area, and in some areas of the country, homes are depreciating in value, and that b) home sales prices in general are not the same as the average rate of inflation?
You're right about one thing - it isn't how much you make, it's how much you keep. And if you review the Kosage's financials (assuming you are sufficiently fiscally-savvy to interpret them), you'll see that they were making plenty. They just weren't keeping a whole lot. In fact they had about $11,000 in assets at the time of the divorce.
$11,000. You're right. It's not what you make, it's WHAT YOU KEEP.
And you obviously haven't made much if you think that writing off expenses is somehow more beneficial than keeping your money in the first place.
Will> if the system works use it
X> I have failed to see how this system works. Please enlighten me with facts
M&M, you young pup - you are right!
PLEASE, everybody use spell check!
There it is. Unfortunately, spell check doesn't fix foggy logic or ignorance.
BTW, it would be good to have an in-depth discussion of business expenses, pre-tax versus after tax dollar expenditures, sole proprietorships (schedule C), corporations (especially sub S elections), partnerships, and all of the attendant tax benefits for each. Structured correctly, anyone running a business which has legitimate expenses can minimize their tax exposure, pretty much to the extent of their gross income. Some of these benefits can carry over into their personal expenditures, but they are rarly a benefit to the gross, only the net. You actually have to make money to save money!
For example, if my corporation sends me to a conference with a legitimate business purpose, say in the Bahamas, and I decide to stay a couple of extra days for fun - I'm not going to write off the lodging or food for those couple of extra days. But my airfare to and from, if it's not greater than it would have been had I not stayed those additional days, is going to be paid as a business expense. I get the benefit personally of the corporate expense.
Push it much harder than that- well, can you say "Leona Helmsly"?
Oh yeah, I'm a fan of subchapter S elections (no 35% corp tax, and no SE tax, among the many benefits)...but as Keith so eloquently put it, "you have to make money to save money".
Simply being able to write off expenses you wouldn't have otherwise had never puts you financially ahead.
Also, since the resonable expectation of profit has been denied several times now with regard to Amquix, those 'tax-write offs' are going to quickly become subject to limitations - specifically, limited to gross income from the activty (it won't offset your real, JOB income), and subject to the 2% of AGI limitation.
Ok the answer is: For qualified platinums and above (emeralds included), admission to all functions (except FR) in Worldwide, major and minor, is free.
Prasad > "Answer the question M&M. Because of brainwashed people like you peddiling this, the kinpings scum are enjoying the "SYSTEM" money."
yaaaawn, hey didn't you hear me earlier about critspeak?
Prasad: "Just answer one question that Kendal asked. " HOW MANY QUIXTAR ONLY DIAMONDS EXIST?""
Uh... you missed the boat or something?? The critbots are on the 70% rule or something subject now. Get with it.
ChrisA: "emminemm, you're gonna feel like such an a-hole when you wake up from your Quixtar induced dream. Good luck with that."
Do you guys have a list of sayings you just copy and paste in here? Such O-R-I-G-I-N-A-L thought.
No, xanadustic, don't count on knowing about Peter Island before me. When did you get in?
Ok you really must have been a freak with all those pictures! 350 pictures? My God. Even the worst Amroids I have known weren't as extreme as that! You really must have been on some trip, were you smoking anything? I hope I had never met you... I certainly would remember it if I did. No wonder you burned yourself out. Why so mellow now?
What reports and statistics are you referring to? Well I know plenty of wonderful, well-adjusted people in Worldwide. And people doing LOTS of good, apart from the business, but also because of it. I do commend you for your work though. It seems you found your correct calling in life.
Embot: I have to give it to you--the Amroid is a new name and I love it.
It is good to see that even you can acknowledge that there are just complete whackos in your organization.
What do you expect when you prospect any person you come in contact with????
The next time I am in the USVI or BVI, I'll make sure to fart downwind in the direction of Peter Island. Hopefully it reaches your Diamond--maybe it will remind him of the sh*t that he is sending downhill to his little Amroids!
M&M,
In BWW (listen to the tapes you will hear it), they HIGHLY ENCOURAGE you to paste your dream all over your house. Funny to me that when I follow what the system teaches in its entirety (with my uplines knowledge and approval; they commented many times on how 'you would be the next Platinum'), I am a freak all of a sudden. This is what I am trying to say!!! When someone plugs into the system (because they say it will not work if you don't), you become weird, twisted, and deluded. I have read on the lower end 4 books a month and on the higher end 16 books a month. I listened to over 10 tapes every day. I was a tape spewing, one sided, sold out Quix-bot if there ever where one. If you are NOT doing these things, your upline may suggest that you are simply not plugged in enough, hence, Tony did not attend functions or listen to tapes the first 6 months of his business, but then counselled upline and all of a sudden he does. He never answered the question from a while ago, did your upline suggest you plug into the system?
Was I smoking anything? No..just sweet shot (you may know it now as glister breath spray)...and I did inhale! Perhaps that was what did it...do you guys still walk around with that everywhere...sht sht...keeping the breath good...sht sht....
Perhaps my claiming to know about Peter Island before you was a bit of putting my foot in my mouth. I started in 2000. My apologies if I was a little over ambitious in that end.
Why so mellow now? I quit and recognized that BWW makes a plugged in person a freak; and people who know me say I am anything but mellow, I simply try to be polite and cordial with people; I'm not one to list names and attack individual people (though opinions are fair game).
I didn't see where I referenced reports. I'll respond to that if you tell me where I said that (I need to context to repsond).
And, yes, I do like my calling...warning people about the dangers of Quixtar and BWW.
I don't doubt that people in Quixtar are doing good things. Did you know that The People Temple Cult was originally a group that went around CA and collected food for the homeless children? Moonies do lots of public service. Just because someone is in a corrupt system does not mean they can not do good. This, in theology, is the aspect of the "falleness of man" that tends to confuse people about the Christian faith...when you do good, it does not necessaryily have anything to do with faith (it can), but is simply refered to as civic virtue, which is a good thing in general.
Sorry if I miss your arguments kinda busy at work and not a lot of time to waste here.
All I know is before i was a business owner, I wasn't deducting a % of my mortage, my cell phone etc. Yes, some deductions are ones that wouldn't be expenses to non- business owners, but others are.
I don't know what Kosage was making whenever, but I think he's doing pretty good now.
df> Oh yeah? Tell your upline you want to develop your own tools system to educate and motivate your downline.
Yea, you could do this, but I think I'd use the system already in place.
df>Tell your upline you don't need to hit the next major function because you want to have some private time with your family.
Hey do whatever you want, but you can do that the weekend before or after. FED comes once a year and you HAVE to hang out with family then? OK. or you could get around the most successful people in this business to learn something. Kinda like saying "Yea, I was thinking of going to my professor's final review for passing the Boards, but I think I'm gonna go to a grillout.
df> Tell your upline that you don't want to stay for the night owl so you can go home and get a good night's sleep for once.
Thats fine, just don't skip all of them - you might hear or learn something that helps you go Emerald - so you can sleep in as late as you want.
And X> stop misquoting me, or getting the facts wrong. I never said I wasn't going to functions for the first 6 months. I've gone to all the functions since I started. I said I simply wasn't on Standing Order for like 6-7 months, but i was still listening to the CDs that my upline loaned to me, and he was still working with me, not ignoring me just cause I wasn't on SOT.
I wasn't pressured to get on it. I liked what I heard on them. I saw value in it - just like buying textbooks. And I saw people that were on SOT moving on from 1000pv to 1500, and 2500. I saw my sponsor moved on to 4000pv, then Silver, then Gold. I'm seeing it work!
And people talk about "don't compare your training system to college, at least college gives you a degree or certificate" WHO CARES!! You think that guarantees you anything!! I know lots of people with degrees and years at a company that STILL got laid off! I work for a big company making a little over $50,000 a year in a field outside of my degree. Now I'd like to think that my degree still got me this position, BUT the same day I was hired another person was hired (someone I knew) doing the exact same position for the exact same pay, and she does NOT have a college degree!! So don't tell me how important it is to have a piece of paper to make money!! Thats the BS we were taught grwoing up, but it doesn't guarantee you anything.
I'd rather employ someone who has read Magic of Thinking Big, Think and Grow Rich, Personality Plus, Skill with People, Bringing Out the Best in People, etc, then someone who can just show me they got a 2.8 on a piece of paper!!
Tonybot:
Your canned (tapepeak) replies are indictative that you are UNABLE to generate an original thought.
I don't even know if I want to even both with dissecting your tired, old replies....
Disproving Tonybot once again:
df> Oh yeah? Tell your upline you want to develop your own tools system to educate and motivate your downline.
Tonybot>Yea, you could do this, but I think I'd use the system already in place.
DF again>And why is that? Because they make money from your tools purchase. If you bought your own tools (INDEPENDENTLY)
then they wouldn't make any $$$ from you.
So, NO, you COULD NOT do this Tony!
df>Tell your upline you don't need to hit the next major function because you want to have some private time with your family.
Tonybot> Hey do whatever you want, but you can do that the weekend before or after. FED comes once a year and you HAVE to hang out with family then? OK. or you could get around the most successful people in this business to learn something. Kinda like saying "Yea, I was thinking of going to my professor's final review for passing the Boards, but I think I'm gonna go to a grillout.
DF again> Not at all. You have numerous functions to attend--all year long! Why is that again? Oh yeah--so that THEY CAN TAKE YOUR MONEY.
And another thing, Mr. Anthony Analogy, your logic is f-d up again. The prof doesn't charge you an extraneous fee for the final review. You get that for FREE, either during or outside of normal class hours. Also, the finals' review(s) are limited to just a handful of classes within a finite amount of time. Whereas, in your screwy little world, they will keep fleecing you until you run out of a) money and/or b) interest.
df> Tell your upline that you don't want to stay for the night owl so you can go home and get a good night's sleep for once.
Tonybot>Thats fine, just don't skip all of them - you might hear or learn something that helps you go Emerald - so you can sleep in as late as you want
DF again>You know just as we all do that skipping a night owl is a sign of not being 'plugged in' or 'fired up' enogh. I hear the jerks in my office spew that stuff all the time.
These guys have been doing it for years--all Platnums, no Emeralds. I guess they haven't heard the right thing??? I guess you haven't either??? Oh geez, give me a break.
If you are waiting for some nirvana/moment of clarity to hit you, you better keep on waiting --until your bank account hits $0.00, or checks start bouncing.
Seriously Tony, I am finding that you can't even hold my jock in this blog-debate.
Not only are you losing, but your arguments are less and less compelling.
Quit defending your sinking canoe. Save yourself and start swimming for shore....
df> So, NO, you COULD NOT do this Tony!
T> no there's nothing stopping me from making CDs of my thoughts to give to my downline but how dumb is that. How many critbots would jump on me for doing that? And how am I learning these words of wisdom? From going to meetings and staying for trainings? Learning from those who have done it? So why would my downline not plug into what I am? Why would they want to hear me spoon feed it to them? But I'm not gonna waste time cutting CDs for just my team. I'll cut a CD when I go Emerald, well BWW will.
I may give my downline tips, etc. but they'll learn it better hearing it themselves just as I do.
Oh, and yea I think that review in college does cost some $$ - when you're paying $25,000 a year, you better believe that costs money!!
DF again>You know just as we all do that skipping a night owl is a sign of not being 'plugged in' or 'fired up' enogh. I hear the jerks in my office spew that stuff all the time. These guys have been doing it for years--all Platnums, no Emeralds.
T> well sorry I don't do that. missing a night owl cause you need sleep doesn't mean anything beside you're tired.
But that explains alot of you anamosity, you work with a lot bunch of Platinums?! Man that must suck! Here you are an IBO dropout turned critbot, and you work with a bunch of people who've done it - gone Platinum? No wonder why you hate life and spew garbage on here. I bet you don't say half of this to them. Do you tell THEM its a scam and it don't work?? HA! I bet not!
Turnedaround Tonybot: You are so skewed and screwed, you just don't know which end is up, do you????
T>"no there's nothing stopping me from making CDs of my thoughts to give to my downline ..."
DF>Actually it is your upline. They are the ones stopping you. Go ahead and try it. Watch them put you back into place. You're not as 'independent' as you think'
T>"Oh, and yea I think that review in college does cost some $$ - when you're paying $25,000 a year, you better believe that costs money"
DF> I said "extraneous fee" . Do you not understand what that means??? Dummy.
T>"missing a night owl cause you need sleep doesn't mean anything beside you're tired. "
DF> BS! I hear these idiots in my office do this stuff ALL the time. You might not do it, but I bet your 'business parnters' do!
BTW, these guys have been passed on during promotion time, guess who got the bump? That's right ! Me!
The sh*t they do is starting to catch up with them. I don't have to warn them, I am done with them. I am going to the top -- it is too bad they couldn't make the trip!
T>"Here you are an IBO dropout turned critbot, and you work with a bunch of people who've done it - gone Platinum"
DF>Sorry Tonybot, I never joined -- I saw this scam for what it is YEARS and YEARS ago. I warned em, and they still went for it. And the cost of platnumship has been great for all involved:
I've seen them alienate most of their friends and family
I've seen them bouce checks and take on massive debt
I've seen them liquidate their savings and 401ks and jeopardize their retirement and their kid's future.
I've seen them miss out on developing very promising careers and I've seen them poison our work environment.
IS THAT WORTH IT??? IS IT !??!
If these boys and girls don't make it, they are finished! Stick a go**amn fork in em! It is going to be sad, but after all the havoc they have brought, they deserve it!
Karma baby - its a sunuvabitch.
Be warned Tony. That could be you.
Tony,
Since you are STILL droning on about the college vs. Quixtar..
Current U.S. unemployment rate: 5.1% (94.9% of people are working)
Current U.S. Emerald and above: 0.08% (99.92% are NOT making enough to survive)
If you want to argue that, turn to page 25 in your 2002 USA flipchart and you will see all the percents at the bottom. I summed those percents and they total to 0.08% are emerald and above. How stupid is my college education and advanced degree?
df said: "Embot: I have to give it to you--the Amroid is a new name and I love it."
Well no, it's not new at all. RON PURYEAR said it himself on stage years ago. To describe (politely) "an overly-enthusiastic Amway distributor."
We have found a lot of damage done by people like Xanadustic, who by taking the business to that extreme, turned a lot of people off. We had to go out and clean up the mess and give people a more normal and realistic picture of what we in Worldwide represented. I don't know what is taught in BWW, that is their deal and if they feel whatever works for them....... But I am sure they would have an opinion of someone going over the top like that. We feel people with that type of behavior cause a lot of damage in their wake, by becoming a poor ambassador of who we are. Plus they often burn out as fast as they jumped in and become some of the most negative, anti-Quixtar people afterward.
I mean, 4-10 books a month?? Worldwide teaches 1 book a month. AND 10 TAPES A DAY????? For crying out loud, that is at LEAST 10 HOURS A DAY, POSSIBLY 15!! Or was that a week? Or are you exaggerating again? Anyone attempting this in WW would surely get some counselling--against it!
okay so just what is happening here?
M&M,
Don't make assumptions about how I ran my business. I was one of the polite and cordial people; never 'sliming' someone as we called it.
To give you a background on my reading and comprehsion ability, prior to entering the business, I read random college textbooks for fun. I did indeed read 4-16 (not 10) books a month easy. I had logs going of how often I read and what I read. I can listen to tapes at work; I put in one after another after another. This is what is TAUGHT by the system if you listen. Kumar calls 1 tape a day 'minimum wage' and the more you listen, the more you read, the faster you will make it to that mystical place where suddenly everything falls into place....and I had NO reason not to trust my upline, so there!
I simply followed the system that is gaurenteed success for all those who follow it. Isn't that what you teach? It is what BWW teaches. All of a sudden, I follow the system and I 'burn out'? I don't think so; I just cast off the delusion I was fed from stage, tapes, and books.
Tony wrote: "All I know is before i was a business owner, I wasn't deducting a % of my mortage, my cell phone etc. Yes, some deductions are ones that wouldn't be expenses to non- business owners, but others are."
CK writes: Most people with incomes over $50,000 and a mortgage are already deducting 100% of their mortgage interest on a Sch A. You are paying for cell phone minutes you don't need, and writing them off on your taxes, which is still more cash out than if you simply only bought what you needed for personal use.
What other items are you deducting that you previously could not before you became a 'business owner', and that do not represent an expense you wouldn't have even HAD if you weren't in 'the biz"?
Taxes on your residence? Already deductible on Sch A.
Business use of the car is usually one of the larger deductions for the IBO, but again, you wouldn't have driven those 25,000 miles without 'the biz'.
Tony wrote: "I don't know what Kosage was making whenever, but I think he's doing pretty good now"
Wow. Guess if the dream is big enough, the facts don't count. Based on WHAT do you think "he's doing pretty good now"? Based on his lifestyle? He was living 'the lifestyle' before the divorce, too...leased cars, rented house, but the apparent 'trappings' of success.
That statement..."I think he's doing pretty good now" is an excellent summary of the IBO experience, at least within an A/QMO. Disregard reality, believe whatever it behooves your 'business' to believe, and don't let the facts in evidence stand in your way.
Wow.
I'm not in Kosage's group. I'm not even in WWDB - I'm in BWW under Winters and Markiewicz. Dean Kosage is a big name, I think he's an EDC, so seeing how MY EDC Joe & MB Markiewicz are doing, I think Kosage is probably doing OK.
Joe and MB aren't leasing cars or renting houses! Joe paid cash for his Ferrari. He bought a house for both his parents and his in-laws. One of his diamonds Alan Leiniger wrote a $945,000 down payment on his 1.8 million home on Lake Norman!
Oh, and a % of entertainment can be written off too - couldn't do that before I was an IBO. But I didn't start my business for write-offs, its just a perk. I started it to make $$ longterm.
Well, that explains why everything you've repeated sounds so familiar, Tony, you're in the same LOS as DH, Markiewicz and Winters...and they HAVE changed their tactics to include admitting to the tools income.
Joe told my husband way back in the mid-90's, before all the info had some out, that there was "NO PROFIT" in tools (because I kept insisting that somebody, somewhere, was making a chunk of change off this, though I had no idea of the extent), that the ticket prices covered renting the building/room/stadium, whatever, and the tape costs covered the cost of reproduction and handling.
Now that the information is public, the story is a little different, but since the attrition rate is so high, there aren't that many IBOs involved who heard the earlier lies.
CK,
Speaking on shipping on tapes, in my LOS, we not only paid $7.50 for tapes, we had to add on 4% for shipping. I got a kick out of my shipping fee. Shipping went like this: I take time out of my day, drive in my car, with my gas, to my uplines house and pick up my tapes, and then I pay for shipping...can we say 'SCREWED UP'
And if anyone wishes to argue "to offset the cost of tapes to the upline", there are 250 tapes in a box. I don't know the exact cost of shipping 250 tapes, but I know that a microscope only cost me $15 to ship across country. Let us look at this: 250 tapes times $7.50 is $1875. Multiply that by the 4% shipping fee and you get $75. I can ship a box of tapes around the world several times for that...someone is making more profit just here!
Embot and Mikebot:
I sent this to Tonybot, but he doesn't have the cojones to face facts.
Heed this warning.
I hope this Independence Day weekend is the start of you finding TRUE independence from your "cult"
DF>Sorry Tonybot, I never joined -- I saw this scam for what it is YEARS and YEARS ago. I warned em, and they still went for it. And the cost of platnumship has been great for all involved:
I've seen them alienate most of their friends and family
I've seen them bouce checks and take on massive debt
I've seen them liquidate their savings and 401ks and jeopardize their retirement and their kid's future.
I've seen them miss out on developing very promising careers and I've seen them poison our work environment.
IS THAT WORTH IT??? IS IT !??!
If these boys and girls don't make it, they are finished! Stick a go**amn fork in em! It is going to be sad, but after all the havoc they have brought, they deserve it!
Karma baby - its a sunuvabitch.
Be warned Tony. That could be you.
df, just because I don't reply to one of your many rants/"warnings" doesn't mean jacks@#t. I bet YOU wouldn't have the cojones to say half this cr@p right to my face.
And tlak about absolutes, as if ALL IBOs are this way:
DF>Sorry Tonybot, I never joined -- I saw this scam for what it is YEARS and YEARS ago. I warned em, and they still went for it. And the cost of platnumship has been great for all involved:
df>I've seen them alienate most of their friends and family
Nope, not Me!!
df>I've seen them bouce checks and take on massive debt
Nope, not Me!! I haven't bounced a check since I've been in at least. (but like NO ONE outside of Qx has debt or ever bounced a check!) And how exactly do you know when they bounce a check?
df> I've seen them liquidate their savings and 401ks and jeopardize their retirement and their kid's future.
Nope, not Me!!
df> I've seen them miss out on developing very promising careers and I've seen them poison our work environment.
Nope, not Me!!
I hope they all go Emerald and retire on the same day so your skeptic @ss gets promoted to "Head B!tch" with all the new work you'll have to do.
Congrats on that promotion you boasted about, "now you probably have more responsibilties, have to work more hours, ALL for slightly more pay!!
df, I think you do have a real problem figuring some things out. For example, you didn't want anyone filling your email box with spam etc. Well, for Gods's sake WHY DON'T YOU JUST SET UP A FREE BOX AT YAHOO OR HOTMAIL AND use it just for this purpose? Like getting a copy of that check Tony was talking about?
hey DF is this what you do full time?
Tony,
Regarding what I will not do,
T>You don't show people a better way to live
X>On the contrary, this is exactly what I do in my ministries. I have counseled people through marital difficulties (one of which is caused by A/Q dividing the couple), family troubles, and serious difficulties with past issues on life.
T> don't wake up whenver you want, to do whatever yoyu want (on a weekday;)
X>Neither do you or many A/Q pins either. If they don’t show the plan, their business will shrink and they will have to go get another job, so they are just as trapped as anyone else (or not trapped as anyone else; I can go get another job. Can you if you are held to the plan? What if you get to the top and you find out that the system is corrupt as we are telling you it is? What then?)
T> You don't go to Peter Island once a year, all expense paid. You don't go to Diamond club in Hawaii, all expense paid every year. You don't go on the Q-12 trip, or "Go Diamond" weekend, every year, all expense paid.
X> I would rather not partake of these things. The petty little island is a waste of time, Your meetings are a place to go and learn how to swindle more people out of tool money, how to refine the system for more profit, etc.
T> You don't get a check in the mail every month for things you bought or things your member/clients have bought.
X> I don’t need to, I save more money on my groceries than you get on returns from your personal use. Your members and clients will not provide a significant income to retire on, so you must recruit more people to do the same, so the ONLY way you will make money is to have a bunch of people who are not.
T> And you don't get any type of commission when you shop at Circuit City, Barnes&Noble, Disney, Sony, etc
X>LOL... Commission on Partner stores!! Do the math! Let us consider B&N. You get 7.3% PV and 16% BV. If I buy a $10 book, I get .73PV and 1.6 BV. Assuming I am at 25%, I would see a HUGE $0.40 return. With my B&N member card, I save 10% on my order, so I would SAVE $10, 60% MORE than with your ‘commission.’ Note that you can not use your card for purchases through Quixtar.
Posted by: xanadustc | June 27, 2005 1:10 PM