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June 20, 2005
Monday Reader Mail: 48
By QBlog in Reader Mail
I haven't inserted my own comments in the last few Reader Mails so I'm making up for it with this one. Enjoy and, as always, my comments appear in bold.
name: Cliff
date: June 17, 2005
message: Mr. whoever you are.
Looks like somebody didn't follow the instructions on the contact page.
This is one man's perception but obviously not a good one. Go to the ftc and you'll find that it found that neither amway nor quixtar is a pyramid scam. There is no substantial investment and I've never been lied to.
My "upline" put everything infront of me in the begin and I was quite ok with everything he said. By definition, a pyramid is a scam where all money flows to the top. So whomever is in earliest get's the most money. I know this to be quite untrue in this business because I make more money then the 2 people who are in my direct line of sponsorship above me.
Actually, the FTC definition differs slightly. It says, "In pyramids, commissions are based on the number of distributors recruited. Most of the product sales are made to these distributors - not to consumers in general."
I see you are a little upset because of you inability to perform such tasks. This is not an attack but one must question why one man would go through all the trouble of getting a web blog page, paying for it, just to say negative things about it.
It's really not much trouble at all and it's much cheaper than golf.
I absolutely love this business, make very good money and it's only getting better and I've only been in a year. I don't care that there are a bunch of people above me making hundreds of thousands of dollars becaus in the end they're helping me pay off $41,000 of debt in school loans that I didn't have the money to pay off working as an certified public engineer.
In reality, there aren't that many people above you making hundreds of thousands of dollars per year from Quixtar. According to Quixtar's own numbers, there are less than three thousand people who could even earn $75,000 per year. As that annual income increases, the potential pool decreases.
I'm sure if you and your wife were strong enough to make any money with the business, you wouldn't have any this. How about you make a blog about enron, usair, southwest or the local elementary school teachers getting laid off. How about the government and the ridiculous war that's going on. May about the colombine shoot years ago, terrorism or any of the other negative stuff that's going on in this country and world wide.
Coincidentally, all the people running blogs about the subjects just mentioned are asked why they don't run a blog about the evils of Quixtar or multilevel marketing?
This is the first business I\'ve seen that actually helps people in more ways than just riches. I've found God, my girlfriend, great friends, mentorship, direction and focus because of this. You tell me at you job that your boss is showing you how to make more money than him or your co workers want to actually see you become their boss? Probably not, your boss wants to always be your boss and you co-workers want to make sure you never pass them and won't ever lift a finger to see you succeed in life out of pure jealousy. I see this at my job everyday but that's to this business I won't see if after 2005. I'm retiring at the age of 25 and will never work a job again.
Good for you.
My children will never see their dad go to work a day in their lives.
I'm not entirely convinced that's a good example to set for children.
I'll be the one raising my children and not some day care. Again, I'll stand by this business forever and I'm proud to be an IBO.
Glad to make your acquaintance Cliff.
I'm always concerned when people speak in absolutes about businesses. "Stand by this business forever" is a long time. Things change. People change. Businesses change. Oh well, I'm sure Cliff knows what he's doing.
Comments
On further research, it seems to be a designation used in the Phillipines. Still not sure exactly what it is, though.
Janet:
I think that when you are not smart enought to be a real engineer (EE, ME, CE, or MSE) you have to be the CPE.
Obviously, Cliff isn't too bright.
Quote : "I'm retiring at the age of 25 and will never work a job again."
I still don't get this. He will not be retiring, but changing careers...
This whole idea that running a business is not a job is just plain silly.
Somebody stop me. Hold me back... *lol*
Did somebody say "Cliff Claven"?
Cliffy says: "it's only getting better and I've only been in a year."
I'm getting the sneaking suspicion that their must be some kind of system, maybe a series of tapes or CD's that these folks learn from. They all seem to use the same analogies, attack free thought, and form badly misspelled and incomplete sentences in the same way.
I know that this probably sounds crazy and not a little bit cynical, but I think that there may be a group, an actual organization of these people! I know, it's wild to think about - but imagine all of them being say, in one room - or a stadium - bludgeoning one another with hackneyed phrases and sentence fragments. Possibly even spelling out simple words and praying for the day that they get something for nothing - a business version of a perpetual motion machine.
No, it couldn't be - you couldn't find that many greedy, gullible people at one time, at least ones that had enough money or credit to "invest" it in such a place.
It was just a bad dream.
Keith, you think that you had it bad in lala land the other night?
I actually dreamt about a huge, ferocious creature that had bill britt's head and godzilla's body, stomping throughout the big city and crushing all of the office buildings that contained meaningful jobs in them!
You had to see then what the line at the local unemployment office looked like! LOL
How does this business really help? All I've read so far shows me that the author of that letter can't spell, and uses poor english skills. I'm a college graduate two times over and I will admit that I make simple errors from time to time, but this is just plain pathetic. Maybe if he had actually applied himself in school and paid more attention to what real teachers were lecturing and promoting he might be a bit wiser and know a bit more than what he shows from his post. He sounds just like all the other people that I have met that are doing "the business". They all use the same phrases and wording for answering questions. Can anyone out there acutally speak for themselves? In simpler terms: use your own words, not some pre manufactured statement designed by Quixtar or Amway?
What a relief! I was wondering where all the good friends we had in the business had gotten to- the ones who never spoke to us again after we stopped being in Amway. They are alive and welll with Cliff.
How much net profit did you make in the first quarter of 2005, Cliff?
Mike
Mike, was that a rhetorical question? You know that these ambots won't divulge real facts or figures.
I don't even think that Cliff can discern what a business quarter really is!
((And no Cliff, a business quarter isn't one of those shiny things you put in the gumball machine!))
Cliff> Go to the ftc and you'll find that it found that neither amway nor quixtar is a pyramid scam.
Imran> Well, doing that investigation was bad enough. They never investigate my office, or ... Avon? And they did that few decades back. Can this be said now?
http://tinyurl.com/9d7my
Also, jury didn't find Michael Jackson guilty. Will you send your kids to never never land?
Eek. I hate to think that any of my tax dollars might have been used to guarantee Cliff's student loans. If they were, I demand a refund.
I remain fascinated by the "my kids won't be raised in daycare" comment. Even if you make it to the top of the AmQuix pyramid, you're gonna be busting your hump at all those meetings, seminars, and rallies, and will be in desperate need of a nanny or other 'night care' arrangement.
Additionally, not all kids of parents who have jobs are in daycare. Mine weren't. Hubby worked a job, and we lived on his income - until AmQuix came along. Then we had to go into debt to finance the tape/rally/seminar/buying from yourself costs. Until we couldn't even make the finance charges anymore. Now DH works TWO jobs, and I have a seasonal job (which, by the way, I love, so that's cool), to dig us out of the AmQuix hole.
What did you say your first quarter profit is, Cliff?
Hey I just love ripping on these ambots. Its the best when they make a spelling error, and then we just jump all over it. I don't even read their arguments, I just copy and paste what they say into Word and look for little red squigly lines, like its my job. Ha! what a bunch of losers trying to own their own business! Why don't they just work a job like everybody else!
I thought it was cool how Qblog pointed out that not that many people in his upline make a 6-figure income. He thinks just because his upline Emerald, then the Emerald upline from that, and then his upline Diamond, and upline EDC, and then Upline Double, Triple and Crown, and Crown Ambassador all make 6 or 7-figure incomes, that those 8 people consistutes "A LOT"! haha! Well, actually he never said alot, he just said "a bunch of people", so I guess 8 couples could be a bunch, but whatever, I still think he's stupid!
And it was cool when qblog said only 3000 people can make more than $75,000!! Yea! take that ambots!! The ambots are probably gonna just say that in your JOB how many people can make $75,000 if the pot stays the same?? Of course, I guess as they get bigger and increase their sales then their bonus pot WILL get bigger each year, and More than 3,000 could make $75,000, but I don't care, he still mis-spelled like 5 words!! And actually I heard Quixtar paid out like $343 million last year, but thats probably just a lie!
All I know is one day I'm gonna be CEO at my company!! I know there's 14,000 people in my company and only 1 CEO, so I guess my chances are 1 in 14,000, but I'm gonna do it! Its better than those stupid Ambots who think that if they just stay steady and work consistently that they'll eventually succeed. Who told them that?? It doesn't take hard work to win, its all about who you know! My uncle is a VP, I'm gonna kiss his ass and brown nose all I can and one day 40 years from now I'm gonna be the one deciding who gets laid off this month!! HAHAHA!! Its gonna frickin rule!!!
Anthonybot
Welcome to the fray. I can tell already you are gonna be a lot of fun.....
...same tapespeak, same attittude, same result -- total annihilation!
Oh there you are df... can't hide from me!
GET BACK TO WORK!
df,
Glad you could deduce that I was an IBO. what gave it away? ;) But if you were just a tad bit sharper, you may have been able to put 2 & 2 together and not called me Anthonybot, but maybe the shorter version of Tonybot.
I put Anthony so you guys would read it as if a critbot was writing it, but then slowly figure it out, especially once you saw "Anthony" at the end. But I guess you didn't. I'm sure mlm knew it. Us Irish/Italians are the sharp, witty type. ;)
I hope to visit again soon, until then, all you IBOs keep STP and all you critbots have fun wasting your lives on blogs, twisting truths and looking for speeling erors!! :P
I figured as much Tonybot, but I am not one for false accusations.
I save that for your and IBO frat buddies.
Keep paddlin that canoe Tony! You deserve everything you get.
Same to you Embot.
I landed new business today, which justifies my salary and adds to my annual bonus commission. I guess I have time to poke a sharp stick at the sick little ambot puppies!
What did you 2 do today? Clean the floors? Re-stock the toilet mints?
df> Keep paddlin that canoe Tony! You deserve everything you get.
You better damn well believe it buddy, don't worry, and when I get it, I will have earned it!
So you get a commission bonus? Does that mean you make $$ off other people? Oh wait, that how all businesses work, started thinking like a critbot for a second there ;)
So is that bonus a reisdual bonus?? Will you be getting paid in 5-10 years for the business you landed today? Could you take 2 months off to go to Europe and still have a job when you get back? Well if so, you must be a business owner of some kind. Good for you!
No the toilet mints were still good, so I didn't have to do that, but if I could make $50,000+ doing that too, I would ;)
But for the time being I'll stick with my engineering career and teaching TKD.
Later :)
I was approached by my best friends step dad to be in Quixtar just last month, I was dubious (he got me into the "Tax People right before they were shut down by IRS.) I heard the spiel, almost got excited, then went home and started researching.
I was beside myself, this is one of the most horrendous acts of deception that I have found against humankind and I knew my best friend was looking at getting into it! I tried to show him what I was reading but he was not interested.
What a deal Quixtar is!
Own your own business where you can
1) Step on the backs of your family and friends.
2) Think your doing people a service when in fact your lying and cheating (directly or not) them.
3) Twist your thought patterns to duplicate lunatics that just want your cash, mind and soul (Yager....Tonybot. two opposite ends of a spectrum).
I told my friends step dad "no, I did not want to join" and he called me names and said that I wasn't stretching myself. It was very hard for me to hear this from a guy I had respected. I thought long and hard about what would make a guy that I have known for 15 years and had well liked turn on me like that. Every thing that I read and hear is this is pure undiluted evil. I feel sorry for the people mired in this that can no longer think for themselves.
I'm sorry your friend's step dad insulted you, I don't condone it, or do it. If someone I show this too is not interested, I say "hey thats cool, its not for everybody." I'm still friends with all the same guys I was before, whether they're in or not. Once again - you read negative crap from people you don't even know, instead of thorough research.
I've seen things you never will, cause I was skeptical, but not to the point where it made me closed minded, and kept me from making an informed decision. Sorry your experience was different than mine.
Hey Tony, he is reading here meaning he is reading your contributions as well as those you deem negative. After his research he came to a different conclusion than you.
"you read negative crap from people you don't even know, instead of thorough research."
"I've seen things you never will, cause I was skeptical, but not to the point where it made me closed minded, and kept me from making an informed decision."
Tony, not to doubt your "experience" but how do you KNOW what kind of research I have and haven't done?
As far as being open minded, I am an extremely open minded guy, I do not lean to either side of the right or left. I do question those that tell me that I could make 60,000 by this October (as my would be sponsor told me.) I make my judgments based on MANY different sources not just what one person or the media may be spewing that day.
What does start getting my attention is when many, many people start reporting the same issues in a logical, reasonable way and with facts and figures to back them up. I do not find as much comfort in the “ignore the negative junk� method, while true sometimes negativity is derived from ignorance and jealousy, it can also come from being fed up and exploited by a repressive system or tyranny. To ignore “negative� from these sources is the “ostrich, head in the sand� method and can often lead to repeating the mistakes that others have already experienced.
I have looked at the numbers of this business and done the exponential math, the only possible outcome in this business is that eventually if EVERYONE (theoretically) got into Quixtar the bottom and biggest layer of that pyramid would get stuck holding the empty bag. Not only is that a problem, my understanding is that those people would still be taught to think they had a chance (insidious) and be encouraged to purchase books and tapes made by the up line that were created only to pad those same said pockets of the up line (evil). I am sure that given enough years of scraping and exploiting of others you could “climb� that pyramid and get in on the books and tapes yourself, finally making the cash that has been promised, but even then you face the dilemma of knowing what you have done to all of those people you have sold and will sell the dream to. That’s using logic no IBO wants to think on. It will all end in tears and lots of unsold vitamins.
Tony>Hey I just love ripping on these ambots. Its the best when they make a spelling error, and then we just jump all over it. I don't even read their arguments, I just copy and paste what they say into Word and look for little red squigly lines, like its my job.
Fitz>Funny, Qblog never once mentions spelling, only us making comments. Besides, when you're gonna write a message to someone you're trying to convince otherwise, shouldn't you edit it? Don't you know when you turn in a resume for a job...oh wait, nevermind.
Tony>I thought it was cool how Qblog pointed out that not that many people in his upline make a 6-figure income.
Fitz>Do you have verifiable evidence to support this otherwise.
Tony>And actually I heard Quixtar paid out like $343 million last year, but thats probably just a lie!
Me>Again, where can you verify this. What was the average income of an IBO last year? I think that's important, don you think?
Tony>All I know is one day I'm gonna be CEO at my company!! I know there's 14,000 people in my company and only 1 CEO, so I guess my chances are 1 in 14,000, but I'm gonna do it!
Fitz>As oppossed to Quixtar, who haven't had a IBO go diamond who wasn't originally part of Amway. What percentage of IBO's go diamond TonY?
Tony>So you get a commission bonus? Does that mean you make $$ off other people? Oh wait, that how all businesses work, started thinking like a critbot for a second there ;)
Fitz>Commissions are made by selling more items, not going out to get more people to sell items for you.
Tony>So is that bonus a reisdual bonus?? Will you be getting paid in 5-10 years for the business you landed today?
Fitz>Actually, if you're involved in sales, like my father is, than the answer would be a huge YES. Once he's established that he's a realiable distributer of an item, the costumer will more than likely come back to him AND will recommend my fathers to others in "the business" LOL.
Does anyone else find it funny how Tony tries to call us critbots, but when you're deciding whether you want to take on a new business venture, you should approach it with a a critical mindset.
Sounds like this guy is a "real IBO". Good luck with your future debt dude!
sorry about the crazy symbols in the last message not sure what's going on, they were supposed to be "quotes".
Yo tony man, don't let these critbots drag you down. You got the dream, player, and you gonna make it happen. Are you feelin' me on that dog? Just remember, the facts don't count, so don't let these schmucks come at and scare you with terms like "negative sum game", or "tapespeak" or "illegal pyramid", "brainwashing tapes" or "buying from yourself scheme". You just hang tight tony, and let the dogs bark, cause this caravan is movin' on baby, right into the kingdom of God's land of freedom, with plenty of that residual income to go around to last 100 lifetimes!!!
AMEN AND HALLELULIA!!!
Tonybot -- I am glad to hear that you are an engineer. It is piece of mind to know that REAL businessmen aren't falling for your scam.
I am sure you will keep us abreast on your progress -- we'll hear all about your unsubstanciated income claims.
But what if you don't do well? Will you come clean with the story. I knew a guy that gave his family the 2-5 spiel back in the day -- kept bumping his retirement date out every 6 months -- hilarious to say the least.
Are you gonna be that guy Tony???????
I chanllenge you to break the ambot mold. Go ahead and keep us updated with your Schedule Cs ... what's that 'No Way!' ?
Well, that's not a surprise either.
Tell us something we haven't heard before,
Mr. Tapespeak Tony
"hey thats cool, its not for everybody."
Even that statement is a subtly masked stab at someone.
Qblog,
I also worry when people speak in absolutes about this business. Only Sith speak in absolutes.
guys,
It's funny when you "crititics" want to analyze(sp?) us IBO's word for word, but when we analyze you right back and debunk several of your misconceptions you like to call it "tapespeak" or "brainwashed". Or go into personal attacks on one particular IBO.
Df, why would you want to compare our schedule C's with us against your w2's?Besides, showing schedule c's in MLM is illegal.Just like flashing check's.
"How about the government and the ridiculous war that's going on" - well, here is at least one thing where Cliffy is outta line... party line, that is... and he needs to be whipped back in shape by his upline. Quick! Get to the next function! Recharge the batteries! And get your politics straight and in line with those above you, lest they find out you're against the war and punish you by not doing any plans or QIs for you!
Michael: "Besides, showing schedule c's in MLM is illegal"
No it isn't.
DF> But what if you don't do well? Will you come clean with the story. I knew a guy that gave his family the 2-5 spiel back in the day -- kept bumping his retirement date out every 6 months -- hilarious to say the least.
Imran> Same as my upline, Ahmer Azam. Guy should have 'retired' last December.
Fleak> I also worry when people speak in absolutes about this business. Only Sith speak in absolutes.
Imran> Intelligence does not appear to be your thing :D
D'oh! it was for Qblog
Michael>It's funny when you "crititics" want to analyze(sp?) us IBO's word for word, but when we analyze you right back and debunk several of your misconceptions you like to call it "tapespeak" or "brainwashed". Or go into personal attacks on one particular IBO.
Imran> When was that Michael when some 'misconception' was debunked? I missed that.
When getting involved in a business proposition, especially one that resembles a partnership (even if it technically is not one), having access to the company's (or the partner's) financial records, including cashflow records, I/O statements and tax forms, is required if one is to know that the claims are legitimate. If you are getting involved in something that claims to be a multi-million-dollar opportunity, wouldn't you want to know how the money is generated and whether it's REAL? The only way to know that is through the disclosure of actual financial documents, NOT through the presentation of a Sales and Marketing Plan.
I did not know that ten years ago. I do now.
PW
Lawdawg:
Maybe Mikebot means it is 'illegal' in the sense that it goes against the rules of the cult. In either case, it is a pretty weak excuse. Again, we have come to expect it from these 'bots....
Mikebot:
I am not the one making outlandish income claims here. I am going to enjoy both work and private life until I retire at age 60. I have put myself in a position where I can do both and continue to live comfortably after age 60.
People can dispute what 'comfortably' means, but I am not going to get wrapped up in that debate.
Mikebot, Tonybot, Embot, anybody-bot:
I you want to make the claim that you are gonig to retire in 2-5 years and live an extravagent lifestyle, then PROVE IT. Show some documentation and/or some sort of plan as to how you will get there.
Without a plan, you are just another canoe, floating down the river, blind to the waterfall ahead.....
Michael>It's funny when you "crititics" want to analyze(sp?) us IBO's word for word, but when we analyze you right back and debunk several of your misconceptions you like to call it "tapespeak" or "brainwashed". Or go into personal attacks on one particular IBO.
TD>That's because we recognize it from our own experience. I will keep saying this until one of you IBO's has the courage to address it. I WAS like you for 11 years! Every justification I have read here by current IBO's has been said by me over the course of a decade. If I wanted to, I could out tapespeak Tony!
TD
df, quit wasting your company's time! Get back to work. Remember, sell, sell, sell. You want that big bonus, right? You aren't getting that by sitting here typing on this blog! You are being terribly unfair to the company that hired you! You could be selling even more!!
Michael wrote:
"guys,
It's funny when you "crititics" want to analyze(sp?) us IBO's word for word, but when we analyze you right back and debunk several of your misconceptions you like to call it "tapespeak" or "brainwashed". Or go into personal attacks on one particular IBO."
Michael,
Very simply, you're not making any attempts to effectively debunk our "misconceptions". Rather, you resort to personally attacking us whenever we point out to you why your particular analyses concerning the quixtar business opportunity as it is currently practiced is both unethical and all wrong.
If you feel that you are being personally insulted, then respond back to our criticisms with well thought out rebuttals, rather than just relying on the same tapespeak statements time & time again, which the critics have effectively refuted over and over again.
Tony's poor use of sarcasm aside, the fact that he knows the statistics and still attempts to defend "the business" underlines the inability of commited "networkers" to objectively analyze what they are involved in. Any reasonable person would ask for verification of performance claims made about a business opportunity. The reluctance to come forward with this indicative of weakness of "networking" in business terms.
Ignore the SA-4400, the FTC, the BSMAA, and all the rest. Anyone that finds themselves solicited by "networking" promoters should ask themselves one question:
"Why doesn't this person provide me with the facts I need to make an informed decision?"
You should, as a potential AmQuix IBO, feel 100% confident that you received full disclosure and you should look elsewhere if you do not receive it.
I would remind "Networking" promoters that lying and telling half-truths to prospects is fraud, a hallmark of criminal organizations since the dawn of human society. You can make any claim you wish but, at the end of the day, something is wrong with your opportunity if you can't be straight-forward about it with everyone.
Mike
eminem wrote:
"df, quit wasting your company's time! Get back to work. Remember, sell, sell, sell. You want that big bonus, right? You aren't getting that by sitting here typing on this blog! You are being terribly unfair to the company that hired you! You could be selling even more!!"
This is exactly my point. Eminem here apparently disagrees with what df has had to say on this thread, and rather than trying to address the issues that df brought up, Eminem makes a silly assed remark that, in one form or another, must be on at least half of the bot tapes that the kingpin scam artists put out on a daily basis.
"hey thats cool, its not for everybody."
Chris> Even that statement is a subtly masked stab at someone.
What the hell Chris? Is being an ER doctor for everyone? Is being a nightclub owner for everyone? Is being a 2nd grade teacher for everyone? NO! Just like being an IBO is not for everyone. This is my point - we can't win with critbots! If you tell a guy he's making a mistake by not at least trying, then you're an overbearing jerk. If you say hey that's cool its not for everyone, you're STILL a jerk?? Chris, I wish you the best man - I'm not gonna waste my time with some negative skeptic, that thinks me giving someone an "out" that lets them save face, is an underhanded attack! Now if I said, hey thats cool, if you're not ambitious or smart enough to do this, you can just stay a peon at your job... - now THAT would be underhanded stab at someone!
TD> If I wanted to, I could out tapespeak
Tony!
That wouldn't be tough to do, since the only time I tapespeak is when I'm quoteing someone, like "Larry Winters once said..." Just because someone in the history of network marketing has said something before me, does not make the argument invalid. Is communism wrong? How about Socialism? Is there any argument you could make for or against either, that someone else hasn't said before?? Does that somehow invalidate it, or mean you can't believe it or feel the same way??
I've said it before and I'll say it again - you guys crying "tapespeak!" are WEAK!! Come up with SOMETHING better than - "oh that's just tapespeak" - its pathetic!! Truly pathetic! What a great way to dodge a point made by an IBO than to cry "aahh, tapespeak!" Gimme a break!
df> I you want to make the claim that you are gonig to retire in 2-5 years and live an extravagent lifestyle, then PROVE IT.
And I want you to make the claim that you can fly and proove it- or make the claim that you're gonna work with the same company until you're 65 and retire with all the money you'll ever need, and prove it.
my point df, is don't tell ME what claims to make! I'm NOT saying that I'll be living large in 2-5 years. I know it may take longer. 2-5 years is just a plan, and its not from when you sign up, but actually start doing consistent work. Honestly, I'm still not doing 10-15 hours a week. I try to do a little each day, more somedays, but I know I still have room to improve. the 2-5 yr plan is just that a PLAN - its not a guarantee.
There was a 67 yr old guy who went Diamond in 1-year. You can see his pic up at the HQ in Michigan. 1 year is very rare, but theres a plan to do it in 2-5. I know it may take me longer, but my goal is to at least be Emerald in 5. But Larry Winters took like 5-6 years to go Platinum, and he seems to be doing ok now. I think I'll keep my job and keep building the business and see how it goes.
It cracks me up how every now and then you'll hear a critbot that says "I hate to admit it, but the Kahvecinno is pretty good" or "I hate MLM, but actually XS does taste pretty good" - or "to tell you the truth the LOC is a pretty darn good cleanser", or my favorite "the gift albums are actually pretty cool and easy to sell", and so on and so on. Hey guys- get past the hype and you can make money at this. Talk to some bars or restaurants and get them carrying XS, people are doing that! Talk to some corporations and tell them about the Gift & Incentive albums, people are doing that! Give an XS or Kahvecinno to a friend, and let buy it thru you, people are DOING that! This is a business, people are making money doing these things. And if someone you know wants to do it too, you can help get them started, and benefit for helping them! How frickin awesome is that!
Chris>What the hell Chris? Is being an ER doctor for everyone? Is being a nightclub owner for everyone? Is being a 2nd grade teacher for everyone? NO! Just like being an IBO is not for everyone. This is my point - we can't win with critbots
You have to realized that people choose their profession by making a (somewhat) informed decision--not by some ridiculous cold call.
I doubt anyone walked up to a brain surgeon at Barnes and Noble and said, "Hey, you look like a smart guy; wanna be a brain surgeon?"
But, actually you can still win Tony. And I am even going to HELP you. In order to win, you [and/or your business associates] need to decide to:
a) Not make cold/blind/unwanted solicitations in public
-and-
b) Become straightforward with financial disclosures in the abovestated solicitation
If you could follow those two guidelines, I'd back down tremendously.
Can you do that? I think that there are individuals within your organization that CAN do it, but I think the majority WON'T do it. They are too eager to build their upline/ladder/pyramid to try to promote with forthright integrity.
Until a & b are met, you are going to have to compete for "clients" on the lowest common demoninator. You are going to be lumped in with a bunch of ambot zombies roaming the malls, homes, coffee shops, etc., looking for your next kill.
You are welcome for the advice. If you get past a & b, we can get to "c" -- what to do about Tools Money.
mlmscam,
You critics rely on the same old and tired amquix.info and MOD tapespeak, why can't we IBO's rely on our tried and true tapespeak? Look, this business works, I've got more information than you'll EVER have about this business. No matter what "snappy" rebuttals IBO's can come up with you'll always come up with something negative to say about it every time. You passport guys just can't stand quixtar. Look, I have agreed with several of your critical statements about the tools business and I am aware of some of the abuses in other downlines. I am also making changes to our organization- to make YOU critics happy.Quixtar itself isn't a bad company. It all boils down to the individual and how HE wants to run his business. Like I have stated before, what you focus on, you are going to wind up with. If you read amquix.info, and MOD, you'll model their failures. If you listen to someone who is actually in the business and knows how to build an organization, then you are more likely to achieve success. I've mapped out a perfect business model for you on the other posts, and all you can come up with is why YOU can't do this, not why you can.
You passport guys need to learn that your not going to convert someone from quixtar into your program by insulting the business that they are in. Just like you don't insult a prospect's JOB, even though we all know they aren't happy with it.
Besides, who is really benefiting from all of your negative commentary? The future prospect? Bo Short? Eric Scheibler? Proctor and Gamble? google?
Is the IBO really doing the negative searches on quixtar? My guess is that they aren't. My thought is that I don't know what you are trying to "achieve" talking negatively about someone all the time, all I know is that you won't be able to prospect me into passport anytime soon with attitudes like yours.
Any IBO or Quixtar fan, please explain the many lawsuits directed at Amway and its top level distributors and then the late 90's morph into Quixtar to hide the Amway name. Also, explain the BSMAA that binds all IBO's from speaking out against Quixtar after arbitration, a gag order in effect. Actually if you signed one of these you probably can't legally explain it. Explain where all the money from the events and functions go (it can't all be for the hotel ballroom) Explain why the top level Diamonds have entire facilities devoted to making tapes and CD's that cost around 25cents to produce but cost $6 plus and are pushed as a necessity to IBO's. I don't buy the "you have to pay for a collage degree too!" line, at least with a real degree you have a nationally recognized diploma that accredits you to what field you study in. "Fleecing your own sheep" seems to be the course IBO's have to graduate from to ever hope for Diamond. Is it worth it?
Mikebot>No matter what "snappy" rebuttals IBO's can come up with you'll always come up with something negative to say about it every time
Actually, Mikebot, I just addressed this issue the same statement just came from Tonybot.........
DF>You have to realized that people choose their profession by making a (somewhat) informed decision--not by some ridiculous cold call.
I doubt anyone walked up to a brain surgeon at Barnes and Noble and said, "Hey, you look like a smart guy; wanna be a brain surgeon?"
But, actually you can still win Tony. And I am even going to HELP you. In order to win, you [and/or your business associates] need to decide to:
a) Not make cold/blind/unwanted solicitations in public
-and-
b) Become straightforward with financial disclosures in the abovestated solicitation
If you could follow those two guidelines, I'd back down tremendously.
Can you do that? I think that there are individuals within your organization that CAN do it, but I think the majority WON'T do it. They are too eager to build their upline/ladder/pyramid to try to promote with forthright integrity.
Until a & b are met, you are going to have to compete for "clients" on the lowest common demoninator. You are going to be lumped in with a bunch of ambot zombies roaming the malls, homes, coffee shops, etc., looking for your next kill.
You are welcome for the advice. If you get past a & b, we can get to "c" -- what to do about Tools Money.
And yes, Mikebot, I hope that someone does read this and reconsider what they are about to get into (or, worse, are already into). It is kind of ironic -- ambots think they are helping people by getting plugged into a system of tools.
And I think I am helping people by avoiding that scam like the plague.
(Kudos to Dawson for the Fleecing Their Own Sheep analogy -- great!)
Michael:
Where does this comment about Passport come from? Are you assuming that the non-IBO's who post on here are in the payment of Passport?
I can't speak for the rest of them, but I would not touch Passport or any other MLM with a barge pole.
If I were to invest in any business (Quixtar or something else), I would want to see proof of the solvency of that business, either by way of audited financial statements or by way of tax returns. I submit that this is not an unreasonable request for someone to make if they are to invest time, money or both.
Any astute businessman would not invest money without doing his 'homework' first.
Michael>I've got more information than you'll EVER have about this business.
I don't know about that, Michael. How long have you been with Quixtar?
Michael>Is the IBO really doing the negative searches on quixtar? My guess is that they aren't. My thought is that I don't know what you are trying to "achieve" talking negatively about someone all the time, all I know is that you won't be able to prospect me into passport anytime soon with attitudes like yours.
From experience, yes they are searching for Quixtar stuff on the Internet. I was as CORE and "Fired up" as they come, and I used to frequent places like this for a "laugh" and to debate critics. One day, though, I realized that my Q/AMO had lied to me about the tools, about leaders in the business and about my chances for success and residual income. I was completely miserable, but was in denial because I told myself that I was "paying the price" and that it would eventually be worth it. But I had to quit lying to myself and face the truth about this business. My hope is to help others realize the truth, as I did.
Who exactly on here IS in Passport? Let us know, I'm curious. And why are you so secretive about it????
I would like to expose a scam and save people some time and money. Does anyone know what low pecentage of Scouts actually make it to Eagle Scout, I believe it's less than 1%. I was one of the many that fell for this "cult-like" group. I told myself I was paying the price - but I only made it to 1st Class scout. I wasted years learning how to tie knots and start fires, while I could have been playing video games and looking at porn!
I know some people make it to Eagle Scout, but I wouldn't waste your time trying! Even though some say you can still learn valuable life skills and such - I still think shooting guns and learning archery, and singing songs around campfires sounds like a cult to me!! Avoid the boyscouts at all costs!
Same with Martial Arts!! Such a small % od students ever become a Master Blackbelt its rediculous!! And all that bowing and respect to the "kingpin" blackbelts - its like the mafia or something! They all wear the same uniform and those funny belts, its like a cult or something! Avoid these two scams - they just want to brainwash you and take your $$.
Oh, and Network Marketing is bad too! All that positive thinking & teamwork, and making extra money is just weird!
TONY said "Talk to some bars or restaurants and get them carrying XS, people are doing that! Talk to some corporations and tell them about the Gift & Incentive albums, people are doing that!"
Yeah? People are doing that? Are they going to retire in 2-5 years by doing that? I doubt it. What a joke.
MIKEBOT said " If you listen to someone who is actually in the business and knows how to build an organization, then you are more likely to achieve success."
Yeah? Building an organization is what? Building a retail business (of overpriced,overhyped product) or by sponsoring people who sponsor others, hence, a buying club? Which is it? Both? One? The other?
I'm not in Passport, by the way. MLM sucks in general, in my opinion.
MICHAEL said "Besides, who is really benefiting from all of your negative commentary?" Maybe all of them! Prospects will likely think twice before joining. Isn't that good? Don't you want informed people in your downline?
I doubt it, because then you wouldn't have a downline, being informed and all.
I have never had an Eagle Scout tell me I was a loser for not being in the Scouts,
I have never had an Eagle Scout call me during dinner with clandestine talk about business opportunities and motivational material that one needed to be a scout.
I have seen Eagle Scouts help little old ladies across the road as opposed to pushing them down and stepping on there backs in a never ending reach for a dream of ill gotten wealth.
IBO's = Eagle Scouts? I think we need to work on a closer comparison..
Amway = Scientology....now we can talk
Tony/Anthony
Your attempts to minimize what Amway/Quixtar is makes for fun reading. Again, as DF articulates so well, people who get involved with these organizations are not shanghai-ed in some book store or mall into joining.
They generally know what it is they are getting into, and the horrible stigma attached to AMWAY is hardly the same thing as The Boy Scouts Of America.
Just try asking anyone if they want to get involved in Amway.
Lots of people are asked if they want to join the Boy Scouts Of America, and they don't change the name for the purposes of getting people to an introductory meeting.
Apples and Oranges, but nice try.
Keep skating, you may come up with a valid comparison yet!
YOU CAN DO IT!!!!
Anthonybot and/or Tonybot:
I am not sure which personality has manifested itself in your screwy little head.
But I invite "both" of you and Mikebot to address my comments as it is positive and helpful for you and your business:
DF>In order to win, you [and/or your business associates] need to decide to:
a) Not make cold/blind/unwanted solicitations in public
-and-
b) Become straightforward with financial disclosures in the abovestated solicitation
If you could follow those two guidelines, I'd back down tremendously.
Are you capable and/or willing to follow these guidelines???
Embot, how about you? When you get a break from the soft-serve machine, maybe you can participate!
Tony -
The debating technique you employ in the "Eagle Scout" (a mixture of "Straw Man" and several other logical fallicies) misses the point that no one lied to them about the chances. You, and others like you, lie and mis-lead prospects every day. You violate your distributor agreement every day.
There is simply no comparison to Scouting achievement and your misleading dismissal of the statistical fact that your business model doesn't provide a worthwhile monetary benifit to a whopping 98.5% of the people involved. And your constant harping about "Diamonds" is becoming tedious. I have seen, with my own eyes, the tax returns of more Diamonds and Emeralds than you. None of them made a fraction of your wild, unsubstantiated claims.
You and your cohorts are petty criminals, feeding on new IBOs as if they were some form of economic plankton. Whatever you post is meaningless with out proof, and every sane person knows it.
Mike
I'm not in Passport.
MLM doen't HAVE to suck. But it often does.
I liked the one about somebody needing to get off the soft-serve machine. Funny throwaway line, but at least it's honest employment...
You look like a sharp guy, would you like to dispense soft serve for $7.00 per hour?
I'll chime in with the other critbots, because I agree with their logical stance. The analogies drawn between Quixtar and brain surgery, Boy Scouts, and TKD simply hold no logical water:
1- I've never been solicited with the curiousity approach for anything but Am/Quix (hell, even an Herbalife distributor said Herbalife in, like, the first 3 seconds *gasp*)
2- There is no profit incentive in Boy Scouts' recruitment.
3- M.D.'s aren't solicited (although if you are a really good intern, you may be solicited to go into a particular residency program, based on talent, skill and potential)
4- TKD isn't sold through multilevel marketing - yet :-)
My fervent hope is that every single Quixtar IBO or potential IBO reads this blog- both for the critbots opinions, as well as for those of the Qbots. Throw it all out there, let people use their judgement, encourage them to do as much research as possible... and then make a decision based on all of the factors available.
Nobody should make a business decision based on hype, misdirection, or inflated promises - and that does not only apply to Quixtar, but any business opportunity, multi-level, real estate program or HYIP. Just be smart and do the research!
What is so controversial or negative about that, Qbots?
Rocket> Yeah? People are doing that? Are they going to retire in 2-5 years by doing that? I doubt it. What a joke.
Well einstein, actually I know someone who made $25,000 in the 1st year, and $40,000 in their 2nd year off the Gift Albums alone!! Joe M has a guy on his team that used to be a Red Bull rep that moved 1000 cases of XS in 1 month!! Not to mention, you may not be able to sell enough gift albums or XS to retire, but could you move enough to hit 7500pv? Could you find 3-4 people who could do it too?? Oh, yea, that whole duplication factor - and if you don't like it then you don't like A LOT of businesses.
Dawson> I have never had an Eagle Scout tell me I was a loser for not being in the Scouts.
Oh, but you've had an Emerald or Diamond call you that for not being an IBO, riiight which one was that again?
DF>In order to win, you [and/or your business associates] need to decide to:
a) Not make cold/blind/unwanted solicitations in public
-and-
b) Become straightforward with financial disclosures in the abovestated solicitation
If you could follow those two guidelines, I'd back down tremendously.
Are you capable and/or willing to follow these guidelines???
Dude, you're a (oxy)moron. Your 2 "guidelines" contradict themselves!! Did any critbots catch that? You tell me NOT to do something, but then tell me to do it a certain way. I really hope the nurse finds you soon and puts you back in your restraints.
1st of all there is nothing wrong with asking someone (whether you're best friends or not) if they'd like to make extra money! I remember they asked in an open meeting once who was a C-list contact and like half the room raised their hand - including my upline Platinum (almost Ruby) who is a doctor and was contacted by a patient, who is also a Platinum. You need to get over that. Take it as a compliment. Or just go home and bitch about it. You seem like a real happy person. :P
Oh and guys - I wasn't saying that people join the scouts or TKD to make $$ - my point was that people fail or quit at everything!! Just because some guy says, I tried it and it didn't work, so now I'm gonna save others, doesn't mean that others can't try it and succeed!
Dawson, you have a very miscontrewed view of this business - I'm sory you saw it from the wrong team.
And Keith, why is it df can throw out insults, but me and other IBOs can't.
I'm quickly growing tired of this place - you may be seeing a standard response soon. I'm done wasting time.
Tonybot said
"Well einstein, actually I know someone who made $25,000 in the 1st year, and $40,000 in their 2nd year off the Gift Albums alone!!"
Prove it. I don't believe you. What's his name?
I might have been born at night, but it wasn't last night.
You need to lay off the XS man. DF raises valid points of what the problem is with your "business" and you just don't get it.
You will fail at this business. It's just a matter of when.
Unless you fall into a miniscule percentage of the successes.
What do you think of the diamonds wanting lower prices?
Not that it matters what you think to the Amway Corp. or your diamonds.
You're not supposed to think......Einstein
By the way, Tonybot
You said you know someone who made $25,000 in the 1st year, and $40,000 in their 2nd year off the Gift Albums alone.
Please clarify, did he make that much off it, or did he move that in volume?
Because you make it sound like that is pure profit. Does anyone else smell that? (sniff....sniff)
Never mind, it's just BS. If it's not BS, there will be an actual name attached to that claim.
Unless it's just a bunch more Amway lore.
"Oh, but you've had an Emerald or Diamond call you that for not being an IBO, riiight which one was that again?"
"Dawson, you have a very miscontrewed view of this business - I'm sory you saw it from the wrong team."
Tony,
That was a very interesting split up rant, you almost seem to multi-task a conversation well, if not for the fact you cover only certain comments and disregard the rest. This shows me that you do the same in life, you pick and chose what to acknowledge and ignore the unpleasant ideas that are too tough to chew on.
From a Quixtar perspective, there is a "you are for us or against us" mentality, I saw this with the aforementioned guy that would have sponsored me. When I said "no", the names he used and "you’re against us" attitude came to surface in his personality. Now my friend isn't even returning my calls anymore, I am afraid a 15 year friendship is in jeopardy over Quixtar, that just doesn't seem right. I guess I should have joined the "right team" to keep my friend Tony.
To answer your "wrong team" viewpoint.
It’s like in war Tony, each side thinks they are right, and each side thinks God is with them.
The truth is in the eye of the beholder, and I am only able to comment on what I personally have seen, read and experienced. You would just slough off those things because they are not your view, so to you they are the "wrong" view. I myself realize that I don't know everything about life, business and others, so I research, question and ponder. You choose to ignore the "wrong" facts.
The facts I have found: There are people getting hurt, being degraded, in debt, and loosing love ones from this business plan.
I am sure there are a few that are getting rich and feel satisfied as well. Again, I rhetorically ask at what cost to others are those few attaining this?
Well actually rocket HER name is Amy, and I won't reveal her last name cause it is of little consequence, since you won't believe anything! I could show you a check for any amount and you'd spout the same rants. I'm also not going to give her ful name for purpose of anonymity. I could give you her address and what differnce would it make. You simply don't believe, which is why you have failed.
rocket> You will fail at this business. It's just a matter of when.
Unless you fall into a miniscule percentage of the successes.
So let me see if I get your infinite wisdom, I will fail... unless I succeed. Everyone say it with me "You will fail, unless you succeed", oh thats good! "You will not get your blackbelt, unless you do". LOL - Which I did, btw, 2nd degree, which a very small % actually achieve. Hmm...
actually rocket, just saw your 2nd post. That was profit!! See if you sell a corporation a $500 album you make $100, cause our cost is $400. (which a lady on my team has done, over $7000 worth)
So keep sniffing - I said she MADE $40,000, that was in actual checks, not total volume she moved. She moved much more!
And Dawson, honestly, I am sorry to hear you and your friend of 15 years are not getting along right . I really want to help. You need to tell your friend that you still want to be part of his life, but that this just isn't for you. Tell him that you realize that its a good opportunity, and that you think he's probably gonna do pretty good at it, but that its not something you wanna put effort toward right now.
If he can't handle that, then man he's not a good friend. I've had friends say "no thanks", and I'm cool with them still, and I've had friends that actually signed up, but then never did much and didn't renew. Guess what, I still talk to them too!
But you implying that just because your friend acted this way, that ALL IBOs are like this is just as wrong as me saying I hate all Mexicans cause one stole my car!!
No one on my team is taking advantage of anyone else. No one has to lose money for others to make money! Thats the same fallacy that Socialism promotes, as if someone making $1 million a year means someone else had to be poor. Or that the rich exploit the poor. That is absolutely not true!
"You passport guys need to learn that your not going to convert someone from quixtar into your program by insulting the business that they are in. Just like you don't insult a prospect's JOB, even though we all know they aren't happy with it. "
Michael:
Why do you have to make an ASS out of U and ME? You incorrectly ASS*U*ME that I am in passport, I guess because you have no other factual basis in which to refute my analyses, where you feel that now have to make things up about me.
Well, I guess I shouldn't be surprised. You guys have been making stuff up about the real goings on within the quixtar scheme of things ever since you guys have come onto this outside forum.
What's that? You want to now turn over a new leaf and start telling the truth. Okay, fine. You's can first start by admitting that a high majority of quixtar's products that are sold get moved through wholesale distribution to IBO wannabe profit takers, versus being sold to outside end consumers in the marketplace.
I have a friend, named Tom, who said he won a class action lawsuit against Quixtar because of all the damages he sustained for being a part of the "business". He settled for, like 12 billion dollars.
I won't give his last name because I will protect his identity.
Yep, that's just about as believeable as your little tale there Tony.
Moreso, in fact.
I don't know. Tony has claimed all along to being a black belt in Tae Kwon Do, an eagle scout, and a highly successful quixtar distributor.
I think the only thing that he is is a 13 year old immature brat who is furious that people are attacking his daddy's attempt to build up the family's financial empire thru quixscam.
Don't worry, I still luv ya Tony ;-)
You're my favorite fable teller!
guys,
here is all I am hearing in here..
>mikebot: I have a legitimate way for you to build this business so that you all can achieve success.
>mlmscam: I have the witty numbers to show your business is a scam and its designed so that we can't succeed!
>lawdawg: there is just no way someone can do this business legitimately. I did it, yet I quit.
>df: you ambots go use your tapespeak somewhere else!
>tonybot: I am an eagle scout,blackbelttaequando lawnmower pushin IBO hopped up on XS that says your all wrong!
>imran: oh that just won't work for me. I can't eat that much product. I have a figure to maintain.
>qblog:did you all see that article I wrote about quixtar yet today??
Sorry guys, I am just having fun with this now.
">mikebot: I have a legitimate way for you to build this business so that you all can achieve success"
Well what is it? I'm curious how we could all achieve success in Amway.
tonybot wrote:
"I'm quickly growing tired of this place - you may be seeing a standard response soon. I'm done wasting time."
C'mon tony, don't let these critbots get you down. So you're getting your ass kicked in these debates, is that any reason to just throw in the towel like that?
And you call yourself a proud italian/irish american? For shame!!! You definitely give our people a bad name :-(
Tell me, what if George Washington would have quit after Valley Forge?
What about Dexter Yager not quitting after his whole group smartened up and all dropped out on him back in the 1960's, causing him to go from the emerald level to 300 PV?
Why, Knute Rockne would slap your face if he were alive today.
It's still early in the ballgame, and you haven't really played the job mentality/broke loser card as much as you should be. So let's get on with it! Show those non-dreamers out there who the real suckers are tony! Let's get down & dirty, bro, and we'll have these critics converted in no time!
I think tony's story about the lad might be true. I think she is from ohio, right tony. Joe M's group. I was a part of the gala team that plugged in the M's open.
I have talked to her. She said she called more than 5 companies a day at lunch time for more than 20 days or so before she got the first contract of gift albums. That order was huge and got her like 10K or something. I tried that and the person on the other line just hung up the phone or sweared or politely refused.
I think tony's story about the girl might be true. I think she is from ohio, right tony. Joe M's group. I was a part of the gala team that plugged in the M's open.
I have talked to her. She said she called more than 5 companies a day at lunch time for more than 20 days or so before she got the first contract of gift albums. That order was huge and got her like 10K or something. I tried that and the person on the other line just hung up the phone or sweared or politely refused.
Oh, OK Raj
If you say so.
Tony's right, I'd have to see proof, because I do not believe it for a second.
Rocket,
where you been? I thought you'd be in these debates. I am a single guy and I can easily do 75PV per month in product use(just did today). OK here's the simple math, I hope you can follow me here.
7500PV equals platinum level right?
10 IBO's x 10 retail clients x 75PV each=7500PV. Keeps it out of the pyramid scam legal issues because you will have 100 retail clients consuming the products. Tapes books functions, etc are all optional. Not that difficult to find 10 people. But yet, since I've explained this to you, I am sure you'll rebuttal with something witty and negative as usual. I can hear all the keyboards typing away saying that "that won't work, blah blah blah." There I've given you MY numbers, my shopping cart, everything. It works and I am making it work. I WON'T count on any critic in here to accept my opinions, but thats ok, I am not here for you anymore. I am here for those prospects that read this website and truly wonder if it does work.
Yeah Mikey, I know about the numbers. Find 10 people who'll pay more than what a lot of the products are worth, then get each of them to find 10, blah blah blah.
Notwithstanding the fact that retailing is RARELY mentioned. People simply will not join if you tell them at the plan that retailing is involved. People don't want to be retailers of expensive products. duh. What part don't YOU understand?
Do you tell each of your prospects that they are REQUIRED to retail?
For the record, I've been away the past week from having my eyes lasered. 20-15 binocular vision now!
So rocket,
Now you can actually see the circles from the back of the meeting hall eh? LOL
First off, prospects or IBO's aren't REQUIRED to do anything. Also, how do you know if people don't want to retail? why do you think they sat down with you in the first place to talk with you about this opportunity? To talk about the weather? When you explain the business in this simple concept- people get it. And if they see someone who can actually do it(like me) they often consider it.
Rocket, If you think you know everything about this business, what is the one thing that is often talked about at meetings then if it isn't about the opportunity? You think people are actually that Niave(sp?) that there isn't selling/retailing involved?
Tony,
thanks for pointing something out for me,
rocket's comment of:
"You will fail, unless you succeed"
Talk about a business absolute! That's good advice there rocket!
Howdy Guys,
Just stopped back by here because I noticed another massive amount of replies.
Personally I don't think I have a "dog in this hunt", but I don't think it excludes me from commenting about the other "dogs"
I notice the IBOs are saying "we can't win, no matter what we say."
And the "critics" are saying, "well, say something smart and we'll see".
I do like the challenge of "do 'a' and 'b' and we'll talk about 'c'. I thought that was real chance to gain some common ground. (What can I say? I'm just a mediator at heart)
But let me pose this situation.
If IBO "A" says he will be Diamond in 2-5 years following his upline's plan, and he fails and comes back here and admits all the critics were right; and he then proceeded to become a critic himself...this would prove the critics right and the IBO wrong...correct?
Okay, but what if IBO "A" says he will be a Diamond in 2-5 years following his upline's plan and he succeeds, his picture is on the cover of Achieve getting off the jet and comes back here to say He did it, he won. The critics were wrong.
What happens then? Will the critics celebrate with him or will he be "a crook" and "scammer" like all the rest?
From what I have read here, it sounds to me like that would be the case. Am I wrong?
Mikey, prospects really aren't required to do anything? Hmmmm Then why would Quixtar's Chief Legal Officer say this?
"Our 70% rules provides that for in order to receive a bonus you must sell at least 70% of the product in any give month that you purchase from Quixtar."
Sharon Grider - Quixtar Chief Legal Officer
So, again I ask, do you advise prospects that they are REQUIRED to retail?
My point about failing unless you succeed could be taken the way you 2 characters have taken it, OR I could clarify what I meant, which is that you would be successful at the expense of many others. Is that successful? Not to me. Not to either of you either if you are as wholesome as you try to portray.
Mikey, to answer your question (because you deserve an answer, even if you choose not to provide ones posed to you)
What is talked about at the meetings? Based on my experiences, NOT RETAILING. Just about how it sucks to work all the time, what you'd do if time and $$ were not an issue etc... Quick blurbs over the plan and how it works. That's another joke. Who would honestly get involved in a real business after a 11/2 hour presentation without any real substance?
I know I did because the decision was based on emotion, not logic or reality. In fact, I'm sure the overwhelming majority of people get in based on emotion.
Because if you left a price catalog for everyone to browse through during the presentation, nobody would do it.
Yes I could watch a plan from the back of the room, thanks to my new eyes.
Whether or not I would is another story.
DavidR>I do like the challenge of "do 'a' and 'b' and we'll talk about 'c'. I thought that was real chance to gain some common ground. (What can I say? I'm just a mediator at heart)
Well, David, that is what I am trying to do!
I want to have a debate here. So, let's get it going! Maybe you can comment on the gauntlet I have thrown to your
"business partners":
In order to win, you [and/or your business associates] need to decide to:
a) Not make cold/blind/unwanted solicitations in public
-and-
b) Become straightforward with financial disclosures in the abovestated solicitation
If you could follow those two guidelines, I'd back down tremendously.
Can you do that? I think that there are individuals within your organization that CAN do it, but I think the majority WON'T do it. They are too eager to build their upline/ladder/pyramid to try to promote with forthright integrity
David--what are YOUR thoughts. Your feeble minded compadres think that achieving both a and b is impossible, even
counterintuitive. Do you agree?
I think you are attempting to do both a and b, with the impression you have given in your posts and blog. I'd like to hear more about what you are doing to keep your promotion "on the level".
Also, what are your thoughts of sharing in the business with guys like Tony, Michael and Eminem? I am not impressed in the least. Can you honestly say that you are proud to share in the business with these guys. Do you see people at rallies and seminars where you just shake your head in disgust?
I'd love to get your thoughts.
DF says "I want to have a debate here. So, let's get it going! Maybe you can comment on the gauntlet I have thrown to your
"business partners":
In order to win, you [and/or your business associates] need to decide to:
a) Not make cold/blind/unwanted solicitations in public
-and-
b) Become straightforward with financial disclosures in the abovestated solicitation
If you could follow those two guidelines, I'd back down tremendously."
FROM ME: Challenge A isn't a problem for me. The only "cold calls" I make deal with commercial retail sales. I don't "solicit" prospects in public. My thoughts are if you want to practice "duplication", then the typical mall or book store solicitation is not the correct course. It goes against duplication in that most people are very uncomfortable with talking to strangers..why begin a training program with something already uncomfortable?
Challenge B is more difficult on several levels.
The idea of financial disclosure has been so confused because of the different tactics taken by the AMOs.
If you approach the MLM concept in the manner it was designed, I feel personally that proper disclosures are already in place.
i.e Fee disclosure, average incomes, independent results may vary, and an initial guarantee for refunds.
If you bastardize the concept by explaining it as a franchise, or as an investment vehicle, then the IBO opens himself up for legitimate questions concerning ROI, profit and Loss Records, Schedule Cs and what not.
(This is not to say, a franchise comparison can't be made to simplify a presentation, but it has to be more of an informal comparison)
Throw in "tool income", lifestyle representations, and hypey "get rich and retire" statements and the IBO opens himself up for "proving" that the statements are true.
DF SAYS "Can you do that? I think that there are individuals within your organization that CAN do it, but I think the majority WON'T do it. They are too eager to build their upline/ladder/pyramid to try to promote with forthright integrity"
FROM ME--I think it is more of a case currently that individuals are unaware and not taught that they CAN do it, rather than WON'T do it.
DF SAYS--"David--what are YOUR thoughts. Your feeble minded compadres think that achieving both a and b is impossible, even
counterintuitive. Do you agree?"
FROM ME--I don't think my "compadres" are feeble minded, maybe some are just initially naive to debate strategies and an unexpected outpouring of contempt for MLM and Quixtar when they arrive at this venue. But I agree that "a" and B" are not only possible, but desirable.
DF SAYS--"Also, what are your thoughts of sharing in the business with guys like Tony, Michael and Eminem? I am not impressed in the least. Can you honestly say that you are proud to share in the business with these guys. Do you see people at rallies and seminars where you just shake your head in disgust?
I'd love to get your thoughts."
I haven't been to a rally or seminar in about 5 years. But I do still "shake my head" at the practices I hear about from others.
As for the 3 IBOs you mention.
I consider myself a friend to Mikey, I have seen considerable growth in his personality and style as an IBO that still "embraces" the systems. We disagree on many matters, but I feel he is basically ethical and hardworking, a friend that would do anything for you, if you asked; and a guy just trying to make a better life for himself.
I admire "The Emster" for his tenacity and his courage to maintain a presence here, much like Camac in the forum.
I only know Tony from what I have read, and my opinion goes back to my comments about being somewhat naive in his approach to debate.
My approach to Quixtar is based on Independence. If I build my brand of business in my community and online, my hope is that people will do business based on me, rather than lumping me in with "other IBOs". That goal is yet to be achieved.
Let me repeat my question to you DF.
"If IBO "A" says he will be Diamond in 2-5 years following his upline's plan, and he fails and comes back here and admits all the critics were right; and he then proceeded to become a critic himself...this would prove the critics right and the IBO wrong...correct?
Okay, but what if IBO "A" says he will be a Diamond in 2-5 years following his upline's plan and he succeeds, his picture is on the cover of Achieve getting off the jet and comes back here to say He did it, he won. The critics were wrong.
What happens then? Will the critics celebrate with him or will he be "a crook" and "scammer" like all the rest?
From what I have read here, it sounds to me like that would be the case. Am I wrong?"
Raj, you are correct, she's on Joe M's team in Ohio, and her 1st big account did $36,000 in gift ablum (retail) - her profit from that 1 account was $11,000, then the next month she made $14,000 from 2 other companies buying the gift albums. The next year, she had a few other companies, for a total of $40,000 in Quixtar checks sent to her house! I have a woman on my team who has done $7,000 retail worth of gift albums.
And what did I tell you, rocket, still doesn't believe. It doesn't matter rocket, she still got to cash those checks even though YOU didn't sign the back!! I could give you her full name, address and SSN, but your skeptical, negative @ss still won't believe. No skin off my back! So go ahead and sit there and say "I don't believe it" cause guess what? - IT DOESN'T MATTER!!
And df, I want you to:
a) never post on any blogsites
-and-
b) be truthful when you post on abovestated blogsites.
GET IT YET??? You're a frickin moron! Does ANYONE see how stupid his "challenge is"??
How do you get thru the day without walking into oncoming traffic?? Why am I even talking to you? Go take your meds and have your mom read you a story! I truly pity you.
And mlm, you still make me chuckle sometimes, but you keep using the same old played out jokes. Find some new material.
And btw, yes I am a blackbelt, but never have I said I was an Eagle Scout. Get those facts straight. I was IN the scouts (made 1st class), but was never an Eagle Scout. But you got the rest of it right ;)
Tony, why do you think df's a and b are mutually exclusive? I'm not debated the merits of the suggestion, but I'm not following you logic.
DF,
Definition of debate:
a)To consider something; deliberate.
>So far you haven't considered anything from an IBO's point of view. Thats NOT debating, that's baiting them so that you can shred them apart.
b)To engage in argument by discussing opposing points. David has posed an additional question to you that you haven't responded to honestly. Which NONE of the critics has answered yet which is:
"If IBO "A" says he will be Diamond in 2-5 years following his upline's plan, and he fails and comes back here and admits all the critics were right; and he then proceeded to become a critic himself...this would prove the critics right and the IBO wrong...correct?
Okay, but what if IBO "A" says he will be a Diamond in 2-5 years following his upline's plan and he succeeds, his picture is on the cover of Achieve getting off the jet and comes back here to say He did it, he won. The critics were wrong.
What happens then? Will the critics celebrate with him or will he be "a crook" and "scammer" like all the rest?
From what I have read here, it sounds to me like that would be the case. Am I wrong?"
c)To engage in a formal discussion or argument.
>There is no formal discussion here, just attacks on IBO's cause we are IBO's.
Rocket, please be more specific on what you want us to tell prospects? That there is work involved? There is retailing involved? I DO disclose that- and I also disclose the formal definition of a pyramid scam too.
oh DF about your quote:
In order to "win", you [and/or your business associates] need to decide to:
a) Not make cold/blind/unwanted solicitations in public .
>I don't make cold blind unwanted approaches. I use my list of friends family and aquaintances. But you'll say thats wrong too. So it's a lose lose situation for IBO's cause you are just baiting us.
-and-
b) Become straightforward with financial disclosures in the abovestated solicitation.
>This is also designed as a baiting/lose lose situation for IBO's because you are very vague with what "financial disclosures" you are referring to. If you are talking about the "tools profits" That is just not going to happen any time soon. That's NOT what I show the plan for. Granted I do belong to an QMO organization,WWDB, I don't fully agree with the tools business either. I don't push tools on people unless they are cash flowed FIRST and formost. I gave you my plan WITHOUT tools profits and you continue to go after it, or change the subject and attack something else. I usually wait until the IBO asks me what kind of tools they should be using. Then I give them my open and honest opinion.
If you could follow those two guidelines, I'd back down tremendously."
df, I thought you we're going to back down once the Q guys were fired from work. That was your direct quote. I guess they weren't fired yet.
vm, tell me what YOU think he means, cause here's how I read it:
a) DON'T CONTACT!
and
b) be Honest WHEN YOU CONTACT!!!
He says NOT to make soliciations, but then says to be forthcoming when making these soliciations! How do you not see that?
Thats why I said:
df, don't post on blogsites
and
be honest when you post on fore mentioned blogsites!!! HELLO! Am I missing somehting?? Someone explain to me what df, meant - how can I do both?
But like Michael, I'm mainly working my a/b list, but I have contacted before and gotten IBOs from it! People have gotten DIAMONDS from it!! I wasn't for it much at first either, until I realized your just checking interest, your just offering them something, and they can either be on your team or someone else's.
Hey Tony,
Quote : "a) Not make cold/blind/unwanted solicitations in public ."
This does not say you cannot make any solicitations, it merely constrains the types of solicitations.
Quote : "b) Become straightforward with financial disclosures in the abovestated solicitation"
This is a parameter for the any solicitations done that abide by a
David Robison wrote:
"Okay, but what if IBO "A" says he will be a Diamond in 2-5 years following his upline's plan and he succeeds, his picture is on the cover of Achieve getting off the jet and comes back here to say He did it, he won. The critics were wrong.
What happens then? Will the critics celebrate with him or will he be "a crook" and "scammer" like all the rest?
From what I have read here, it sounds to me like that would be the case. Am I wrong?
"
Read something that I had posted on the "Daddy, what's a pryramid scheme?" thread a few days ago, Dave, and then you be the judge on that:
mlmscam wrote:
""Daddy, what's a negative sum game?"
Well pumpkin, it's when everybody in a group is trying to make money on a particular scheme, where in order for a few people to be making money, everybody else has to be losing money.
It's why daddy no longer has any friends or family left to talk to, because he at one time recruited them into this scheme, promising them that they would be making untold fortunes, and they then wound up losing their shirts.
It's why mommy yells at daddy for being such an ignorant jackass for falling for this get rich quick trap in the first place.
Basically baby, I developed a bad name amongst all the other daddys for trying to get them to spend money that they didn't have for overpriced junk that they couldn't afford - nor ever needed in the first place - just so your daddy could have you, me and mommy all walk together on the beaches of the world someday.
But hey, you couldn't really blame me all along for what I was doing, because I was being brainwashed by listening to all of those ridiculous tapes and attending all of those fruitless seminars, while all along blindly following and obeying my upline like he was some kind of God.
hmmm.....
Michael>a)To consider something; deliberate.
So far you haven't considered anything from an IBO's point of view. Thats NOT debating, that's baiting them so that you can shred them apart.
TD>Most of us WERE IBO's, we are fully aware of your point of view.
Michael>b)To engage in argument by discussing opposing points. David has posed an additional question to you that you haven't responded to honestly. Which NONE of the critics has answered yet which is:
"If IBO "A" says he will be Diamond in 2-5 years following his upline's plan, and he fails and comes back here and admits all the critics were right; and he then proceeded to become a critic himself...this would prove the critics right and the IBO wrong...correct?
TD>Basically, yes.
David>Okay, but what if IBO "A" says he will be a Diamond in 2-5 years following his upline's plan and he succeeds, his picture is on the cover of Achieve getting off the jet and comes back here to say He did it, he won. The critics were wrong.
What happens then? Will the critics celebrate with him or will he be "a crook" and "scammer" like all the rest?
From what I have read here, it sounds to me like that would be the case. Am I wrong?"
TD> No, you're not wrong. If IBO A goes Diamond, promoting the system, and making a majority of his money from profits of pushing the system, while not disclosing said income to new recruits, then yes, he is a scammer. This is a huge conflict of interest, particularly since the newest IBO has no clue that this is happening to him. However, Dave, if you went Diamond, building the business the way (I think) you say that you do (non-system) then I would not consider you a scammer. I don't necessarily feel that all MLM's are scams. To me, the scam comes from the lies that are told to recruit people, the lies that are told to keep the upline "edifiable" and the lies that are told about the income from "the system". MLM is very inefficient, IMO, but not necessarily a scam, particularly if the focus is retail sales and not recruiting and the products are of quality and live up to the claims that are made. Hope that made sense.
I don't hate IBO's, I was one just under a year ago! But, after working our butts off for 11 years and not having anything to show for it, we decided to stop banging our heads against the wall. I worked hard at retail, but I could not keep customers coming back. Their number one and two complaints were prices and the delay in getting their products due to shipping. So, I had to continually get new customers, and my H had to continually prospect. This caused the business to be a 24-hour a day job for us, and we soon discovered that it would be no different at Emerald or Diamond. We then discovered how much our uplines were making from the tools that they were constantly promoting. We debated staying in, but finally decided that, even if we did make it to Emerald and Diamond, we would not feel comfortable making most of our money from the tools.
From my POV, that's as straight forward an argument as I can make. We could debate the details and exceptions for an eternity, but it won't get us anywhere. I'm not sure my posts do either, since mine are mostly ignored.
Michael, I'm not sure what is not specific about this:
So, again I ask, do you advise prospects that they are REQUIRED to retail? I'm pretty sure that anybody could understand that. So do you tell them this, that 70% of the products that go through their business MUST be retailed?
Tony, you are funny to read. I don't believe you, and you talking about it more and saying what you could give me (SSN, etc) doesn't make me believe it any more. I do not believe that somebody made $40,000/yr. PROFIT from Amagifts. Sorry, I just don't see it happening. I'm sure you've never seen physical proof of it either. I've made it a personal policy not to believe any claim made by any Amwayite without documentation supporting the claim. Your "business" created that monster, and that is something you'll eventually have to deal with.
David, you're right. People would still call the new diamond a crook, because unless he went diamond on retail (moving overpriced products) he would be making money based on other's losses, thus perpetuating a lie and worse yet, having others believe it can happen for them. Again, paperwork supporting how he went diamond would never be shown. Why all this proof? Because ANY business you were entertaining the thought of owning would throw open the doors on the books to give you an idea of where it stood. This is a real business, right?
You are very astute to point it out, however, I think it's a moot point. I don't see any Quixtar diamonds here at all. Fat chance
Even fatter a chance Tony, Mikey, or big M will go diamond any time soon. It just a'int gonna happen for this Cliff dude either.
Here is my answer to David's question:
If one of the IBOs came back in a couple of years having quit, my response would be:
"Hard luck, but I guess the odds were stacked against"
If an IBO ends up going Diamond, I'd offer my congratulations, however...
The evidence that I have seen suggests that the big pins gain their money from the tools. I consider the 'tool income' to be unethical.
If someone went Diamond, just on Quixtar products alone (no tools), I think it would be the end of the world.
DavidR>"Okay, but what if IBO "A" says he will be a Diamond in 2-5 years following his upline's plan and he succeeds, his picture is on the cover of Achieve getting off the jet and comes back here to say He did it, he won. The critics were wrong.
What happens then? Will the critics celebrate with him or will he be "a crook" and "scammer" like all the rest?
X> I am not inclined to think one is a 'crook' until he is the status of a 'kingpin', and even then, he may not be one directly, I would suggest 'dilluded' would be a better word, just like any other cult system, the recruiter may not be the founder or exposed to the whole of the truth, but he believes he is doing the best thing in the world.
"For me to NOT share this thing is a SIN" - Quote from a distributor of another MLM; to make one such comment, you are messed in the head. (That was from James 4:17 btw, he was trying to use my theology to recruit me, a very feeble attempt I must say)
Tony, Tony!
If you're going to quote someone at least get it right. I wasn't sorry to admit Kavachino is good. What I said was:
"I never thought I'd say this, but I have to agree with Michael on this one point: Kavachino is pretty darn tasty."
Meaning, "Wow, I actually found common ground with Michael. I didn't think that was possible." Oh well, I've learned my lesson. I won't make the mistake of looking for common ground with IBO MO supporters again. No good turn goes unpunished (misquoted) after all.
imanewme, I was paraphrasing, and thanks for posting your quote, you really proved how I was sooo far off :P
Also, everyone who's b!tching about tool $$ and that the big pins only make their $$ off tools: post your email here, and I will email you a copy of a Diamond's 1 month payment from Quixtar for over $120,000!! NO TOOL MONEY - just from Quixtar in 1 month. Even if every other month $12, I could live with $120,000+ /year.
Also, to those b!tching that our prices suck: the stuff I buy mostly is equal to or cheaper than the competition, such as protein bars, XS, and Quality vitamins. Thats the case with the make-up and many other products too...
Protein Bars:
http://www.vitafly.com/pureproteinbar.html Retail $2.50 Sale: $2.23/bar
http://www.global-nutrition-inc.com/nn-067.html Retail price: $35.88 Sale price: $27.99 -12 bars
Nutrilite Protein bars: Retail $21 for 9bars - $17/ 9 bars ($1.88/bar) IBO/Member cost
https://www.quixtar.com/products/product.aspx?itemno=EE0095
Red Bull Energy Drink
http://www.needmorebeer.com/energy.htm $54.57 / 24pack
XS Energy Drink
https://www.quixtar.com/products/product.aspx?itemno=604327 $23.99 retail / $20.40 IBO/Member cost
http://www.cbc.ca/consumers/market/files/health/redbull/ (news about Redbull)
IBM Thinkpad T20 Internet Ready Intel P III 700 MHZ 128MB 10-12G
$385.00 - SHOP.COM (QUIXTAR PARTNER STORE)
http://froogle.google.com/froogle?q=IBM%C2%AE+ThinkPad%C2%AE+T20+700+MHz+Laptop+&hl=en&lr=&sa=N&tab=ff&oi=froogler (compare the others)
Cool Water Gift Set (4.2 oz cologne & 4.2 oz aftershave)
https://www.quixtar.com/products/product.aspx?pid=1155&Ctg=1374&ItemNo=703545 $61 retail / $54.99 IBO/Member
http://www.fragrancenet.com/f/net/mf_items.html?cat=00582&cur_letter=C&gs_gen=M Over $70 total
http://www.epinions.com/Fragrances-Davidoff_Cool_Water_Gift_Set_-_4_2_oz_EDT_Spray_4_2_oz_Aftershave $56.99
George Foreman® Portable Propane Grill
https://www.quixtar.com/products/product.aspx?itemno=609859D4 $49 retail / $44 IBO/member
http://www.walmart.com/catalog/product.gsp?dest=9999999997&product_id=2643668&sourceid=0100000030660805002498 $59.96
WOW – we even beat WALMART in something!!
I don't have time to go over anymore. You'll have to do your own research.
VM Wrote:
Hey Tony,
Quote : "a) Not make cold/blind/unwanted solicitations in public ."
This does not say you cannot make any solicitations, it merely constrains the types of solicitations.
Quote : "b) Become straightforward with financial disclosures in the abovestated solicitation"
This is a parameter for the any solicitations done that abide by a
Me>I'd really like to see Tony respond to this now.
He hasn't responded to my other stuff from June 21st, boohoo, sob, sob
Let's see if this one goes thru - since I tried to respond, but qblog had a filter on so he could screen posts.
1st of all what didn't I respond to of yours, oh - and was that from 6/21/05??? You mean yesterday!!! oh I'm so gd sorry I didn't respond soon enough for you!! ??
vm's response is barely worth replying to!!
vm>Quote : "a) Not make cold/blind/unwanted solicitations in public ."
This does not say you cannot make any solicitations, it merely constrains the types of solicitations.
T> What are you talking about!! He's telling us Not to contact, not to make solicitations in public!! So what kind of soliciations can I make??
vm> Quote: "b) Become straightforward with financial disclosures in the abovestated solicitation"
This is a parameter for the any solicitations done that abide by a
T> by a..., by a... by a what! Don't you hate it when people don't finish their
Once again, df says "the abovestated solicitation" meaning the VERY THING he was just talking about!!
He's telling us not to make cold contacts or blind solicitations in public (which he implies are always unwanted), and then he tells us to be straightfoward during these solicitations... that we can't make!!
This is insane!! df, must be laughing his ass off!! I would!! and I'm avoiding the issues?? Where's df?? I guess the nurse finally found him!! hahaha!
Someone please explain this to the critbots. df, is clearly telling us not to make cold/blind/unwanted soliciations (and that not 3 different types - he's saying cold, aka: blind, aka: unwanted) He says don't contact then tells us to do it honestly. Anyone else??
Well I tried to post again - but it keeps blocking me, probably because I type it in word and I'm pasting it in. It's a bunch of links showing are prices are equal to or lower that a lot of stuff: such as protein bars energy drinks, cologne, laptops, grills, etc. Hopefully it goes up soon. See you all on Monday I'm off til then!
forgive the typos I'm in a hurry :)
Tony,
With all due respect, I read it to mean "Please don't follow me around in the mall or at the bookstore, that's not why I'm there to start with."
I had a rather interesting exchange with an IBO in a grocery store once. It's not the contact, it's the inability of the contactor to take "no thanks" as an answer.
No is no, after all... and continuing past that is well... uncomfortable at best description.
Ima
But I speak only for myself.
TD please don't think your posts are ignored. Actually I'd rather have discussions with people who have been through the fire than with someone who was shown the plan once like df. Or someone who never spent any real time, money or energy at this, such as rocket. Not that they have invalid points necessarily, but it seems when I come on here that's all I do is engage with them. Some folks like that get on here and "talk" too much, really. And with them, it just boils down to opinions and theory mostly, unless we mix it up and get it entertaining. I know I should interact with you more and and I hope more like you speak up. As I hope more Quixtar advocates do the same.
Qblog,
As to answer your quote,
"I'm always concerned when people speak in absolutes about businesses. "
It goes both ways. To critics and IBO's.
Also rocket, as to your question,
So, again I ask, do you advise prospects that they are REQUIRED to retail?
When I show the plan, YES I do show what is required of them. If you ever read an SA4400 it does show what is required of a new IBO. Retail distribution is one of the requirements DUH.
Also, I'd like to know where you came up with the figure that "70% of the products that go through their business MUST be retailed?" Are you reading that off of quixtar's site or amquix.info or MOD?
If you are taking that from the 70% rule, you have obviously got that confused and don't know what the hell your talking about. I think the actual quote is that 70% of all the products must be consumed OR retailed before an IBO can reorder. Get your facts straight before you start quoting rules and regulations.
I got it off Amquix. I'm sure that "the Corporation" would have had it pulled by now if it was innaccurate. I'm pretty sure they are checking in on that site from time to time.
Anyhoo, if you can find a quote from the Chiew Legal Officer to the contrary, feel free to share it.
I think her message is pretty clear.
Tony, your prices suck. Did you include shipping in your costs? Taxes?
Later
I believe that Rocket and Michael are both a little confused regarding the rules of MLM.
Since LawDawg has not yet jumped in to straighten us out, I'll take a stab at it.
Micheal is correct IMO regarding the 70% rule. That was put in place to guard against inventory loading (i.e. a garage full of water filters).
The other issue regarding consumption says- in a nutshell-that a legitimate MLM must move it's products "primarily" to third party end-users.
"Retail Sales do not include sales made by participants in a prohibited marketing scheme or multi-level marketing program to other participants or recruits in that scheme or program or to such a participants' own accounts."
FTC vs. Five Star Auto Club
In the infamous words of my ex-upline Brad Duncan, "hope that makes sense"
T> What are you talking about!! He's telling us Not to contact, not to make solicitations in public!! So what kind of soliciations can I make??
Fitz>How about not to total strangers in the mall or grocery store for starters. Talk to your friends, friends of friends, associates. AmQuixers are INFAMOUS for prowling the malls and Wal-Marts looking for recruits. And this just isn't people I've read about on the internet. I was amazed how many people I've talked to have been approached by MLMbots. The problem with AmQuix is that you start approaching people as a piece of meat rather than genuinely being friendly with them. The @sshole who tried to get me said he just wanted to talk about my hometown and UNM basketball, since he used to live there. Guess what, I haven't heard from him since I told him I wanted no involvement with Quixscam. And I've read about this many times over on the net too!!
Tony>Someone please explain this to the critbots. df, is clearly telling us not to make cold/blind/unwanted soliciations (and that not 3 different types - he's saying cold, aka: blind, aka: unwanted) He says don't contact then tells us to do it honestly. Anyone else??
Fitz>I've already explained point A, and I would say that cold & blind solicitations are 99% of the time unwanted, simply because people don't like being solicited, it's the equivalent of a telemarketer or worse. But you have addressed the honesty part. You're too busy trying to be cute and play word games to address the facts. If you really take part in this business Tony, than you are the exception. AmQuix people who recruit are not upfront about what they're trying to get these people to do. They're too busy trying to sell a motivational speech to these people about how they can be helped to reach their full potential that they never address the fact that they just want them to retail expensive products. The guy who approached me gave me a business card that read "Cutting Edge Technology"...now what is cutting edge about e-commerce? Nothing, it's been there done that, especially for me since I do a ton of shopping online. It's straight up decietful. Why can't every one the AmQuix people just come up and say "Hey, do you wanna sell products?" What's wrong with that? Not only do they not say, but they avoid it. That's the problem.
"Our 70% rules provides that for in order to receive a bonus you must sell at least 70% of the product in any give month that you purchase from Quixtar."
My understanding is that in order to receive a bonus, 70% must be retailed, ie. sold.
30% you can stockpile, or order to reach that all important pin level, is what that means to me.
Why would you do this if it was not to get your bonus?
So to me, this translates that in order to receive a bonus on $100.00 worth of product (I don't know if they mean "wholesale" or retail) you need to have retailed $70.00 of that to a non affiliated "customer"
Is that wrong? I don't think it is counted by moving the 70% to your downline, because as IBO's they would then not have sold their 70% requirement.
Somebody step in here and correct me if I'm wrong.
K rocket,
what part of my plan DON'T you understand? I explain the business like this:
75PV per retail customer x 10 IBO's x 10 retail clients= 7500PV. That's gives you 90% of the volume going to retail clients. I can do it without tools, tapes and functions.
What part of that plan can't you understand?
Rocket, I'd seriously like to know where you are getting your facts and figures from. You have been lied to. Also there is a proposed new bill in the works I doubt that you've heard about:
HR1220. It's going to change the wholesale requirements for MLMers.
http://www.mlmlegal.com/proposed1220.html
Also, about the part of cold contacting in public. Telling us that we can't cold contact, then telling people about horror stories of losing your friends, and alienating your family cause of this business, who do we have left to prospect to? NOBODY, so your baiting us AGAIN df.
I'd like to know how the other IBO's prospect. Do you prospect legitimately without the bait n switch tactics of the 80's?
Critics, also please be very specific at how you want us to prospect.
If I do cold contact someone in public I hand them a business card that says Quixtar affiliated-IBO and a professional quixtar corporate logo at the top. I NEVER misrepresent what I do.
Tony,
Next time I need protein bars energy drinks, cologne, laptops, grills, etc., I will give you a call, but I don't buy those things.
A/Q promotes a business that 'simply changes your buying habits' and 'redirects spending of things you already use'. Funny that when you sponsor a new person who does not take vitamin suppliments, you are to ask them to try Double X (AN72 I think was the tape), this is also on MANY MANY other SOTs and therefore, TAUGHT by the business.
I know what I buy and EVERYTHING I buy is significantly more inexpensive for an equal or higher qaulity product at the local grocery store.
BTW, have you looked at your shipping fees? The company used to (before your time) mail out what was called a 'consolidated report' which detailed all spending from Quixtar. I added up the shipping fees. The average year was about $300 in shipping fees.
I did buy a laptop recently, I bought it from one your elust
What the heck's "an certified public engineer (sic)"? I'm married to a civil engineer and the only designations that get used around here are EIT ("engineer in training", which you'd better have before or shortly after graduating college) and PE ("professional engineer", which according to my husband, is where the fun starts).
I can't find any reference to the qualifications needed or even the job description of a "certified public engineer". It is a local thing or a private certification?
Too bad the writer hates his job so much, whatever it is.
Posted by: Janet | June 20, 2005 2:02 PM