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June 17, 2005
Daddy, What's A Pyramid Scheme?
By QBlog in Miscellaneous
An alert reader sent me a copy of something called the "Pocket Plan." It's a fascinating little document, a tiny brochure small enough to fit snugly into a pocket or purse. Of course the "Plan" referred to in the "Pocket Plan" is the recruitment pitch used by Quixtar IBOs to generate new business.
Apparently the "Pocket Plan" is being distributed by the EiBiz motivational group, part of Quixtar leader Dexter Yager's InterNET Services Line of Affiliation.
What's noteworthy about the "Pocket Plan" is that not once, in the entire script, does it mention that IBOs are required to sell products. The script explains that by "redirecting your buying power, you create business volume" but never mentions that IBOs must meet "specified retail selling requirements each month" to receive any income.
The Facts
According to Quixtar's "Scam Alerts" page the sales-based compensation plan is what distinguishes Quixtar from illegal Pyramid Schemes.
1. Sales-based compensation. Compensation in the Quixtar Plan is based on sales of products and services to consumers. An IBO who sponsors other IBOs earns income based on his own sales and on sales made by the IBOs he sponsors. IBOs cannot receive income based on sales by downline IBOs without meeting specified retail selling requirements each month. Unlike Quixtar, pyramid schemes often do not require the sale of products to non-plan participants to earn bonuses.
Additionally, Quixtar's Business Reference Guide (pdf) clarifies the specific requirements for selling products to retail customers:
4.22. Member/Client Volume: In order to obtain the right to earn a Performance Bonus on downline volume during a given month, an IBO must (a) make not less than one sale to each of 10 different retail customers (e.g., Members or Clients); or (b) have at least 50 PV of sales to any number of retail customers; or (c) have $100 at Member/Client Volume Cost.
So if IBOs are required to sell products, why doesn't the "Pocket Plan" mention that requirement? Why does it repeatedly characterize Quixtar as a way to "buy from [your] own business?" Isn't that a Pyramid Scheme? Let's see what the FTC has to say about such plans:
In pyramids, commissions are based on the number of distributors recruited. Most of the product sales are made to these distributors - not to consumers in general. The underlying goods and services, which vary from vitamins to car leases, serve only to make the schemes look legitimate.
Deception?
Ouch! It looks like the "Pocket Plan" is promoting a Pyramid Scheme instead of a legitimate business (anyone know how to contact Quixtar Business Conduct & Rules?). Coincidentally, the "Pocket Plan" is very similar to what I was shown several times while my wife was involved with Quixtar. We were encouraged to change our shopping habits and teach others to do the same. We were also admonished to ignore the Member/Client Volume Rule (Rule 4.22 cited above). My wife didn't know any better and she trusted her "friends" and believed that they wouldn't lie to her about how to operate her Quixtar business. And maybe her upline didn't know any better either, seems that ignorance of the rules is pretty common among Quixtar IBOs.
IBO Cost
I want to point out one more problem with the "Pocket Plan." On page 5 of the plan it states that one can become an IBO "for around $130." The problem is that it only costs $42 to become an IBO and Quixtar makes that very clear in the Business Overview.
What does it cost to get started?
The annual business fee for IBOs is $42. It includes:
- Quixtar Business Services and Support fee.
Quixtar's corporate services include full access to the Quixtar website, order processing, customer service, business information services, bonus payment administration, business reporting, technical support, and more. You'll also receive selected product catalogs and other business materials.- Independent Business Owners Association International (IBOAI) membership fee.
As an IBO, you may support your trade association, the IBOAI, which, through its Board of Directors, provides a channel of communication with Quixtar on key issues affecting your business.- Independent Business Owners Benefits Association (IBOBA).
IBOs automatically are eligible to participate in this nonprofit association offering valuable business liability and property protection plans at this favorable group rate.
To repeat the earlier question, why is the "Pocket Plan" misleading? My guess is that those who created it understand that selling soap, energy drinks and water filters is hard work and not something that excites the average Joe. But telling the average Joe that he can earn thousands of dollars by simply shopping at Quixtar is virtually guaranteed to get his attention. And the dirty little secret at Quixtar is that nobody in Ada seems to care whether IBOs sell products to customers or not. That's why the "Pocket Plan" gets published and distributed.
I'll even make a prediction: Quixtar won't do a damn thing about this "Pocket Plan" and those responsible will continue to misrepresent the Quixtar opportunity with impunity. Just call me Nostradamus. If there's one thing Quixtar has perfected over the years it's the art of "looking the other way."
Comments
I see it's also including yet another re-working of the plan numbers as well. 9-6-3?
I suppose these "pocket plans" serve a purpose, in that they give the new IBO a script to work with, and a means to feel comfortable out of the gate.
Many sales type positions start the new guy with a script.
My problem with the pocket plan, other than the WRONG fee disclosure, the hinky numbers, the downplay of retail AND the blatant plug for the ORGANIZATION(read tools) is the Alticor-Quixtar-Access Business Group down play.
C'mon people, We(I) are a Quixtar IBO...plain and simple. And if you are lucky and have some international business then "By Golly", you are also an Amway distributor.
David:
After over a decade at various sales levels, I can tell you that I have never used a script.
If you need a script then you obviously don't know your product well enough to sell it. Seems pretty simple....
What's worse, if the "new recruit" doesn't understand the product and then misrepresents the product in the sale (see pocket plan), then he is doing himself, his associates and his company a huge disservice.
I know that if I saw some young ham-and-egger (see: Embot, Tonybot) try to work a script out of their back pocket, I would get up and leave!
Of course, I would never get duped into that position anyway....
I like this post. It certainly pours cold water on the argument that Quixtar is legal because the FTC approved of it in 1979.
It was deemed legal because it has these rules.
But given that these rules are not enforced, does this make Quixtar a legal or illegal pyramid?
I don't know how much simpler it can get than this.
Now I would like one of the "networking" parasites (and I mean that in the most literal sense of the word) to explain precisely how they are not in violation of their Agreement and not committing fraud as they prosecute their so-called "business".
Mike
df,
I didn't say all salesmen used a script, but many sales positions do.
Sears promotes the use of a script with their "outside sales" guys, Old Navy uses a pocket product guide and "cues" for their associates, to name two retailers. And of course telemarketers normally work from a script.
The best salesmen normally drop the script after a few days, if they use one at all.
The point is, that THIS particular script is BAD.
We used a 9-6-3 plan when we were in the business. When we started, it was a 9-4-2. They changed it so that the numbers on the bottom of the pyramid would be larger.
I didn't understand it at the time, but that was a blatant illustration of the fact that the entire plan is nothing more than a theory - a numbers game to garner recruits. It has nothing to do with the financial reality of the business.
Our upline said, "In theory, these numbers work. Your business will probably not look like this,though, since nothing ever works out perfectly according to the theory."
If only I had listened.
PW
David> "I didn't say all salesmen used a script...."
...and I never said that you did say that!
What's that about? You aren't one to falsely accuse!
Anyway, a script is for someone that doesn't have the product knowledge, nor the ambition to learn the product well enough to sell.
You can argue that all you like, but after my exprience in sales, you would be hard pressed to sway me.
I remember the first time my direct sponsor asked me why I wasn't trying to sponsor more people right away. I informed him that I was going to make my retail bonus before I did that way if I got a preformance bonus I could get it...he was amazed...I showed him the rules...and he changed his way. The ripple was felt all the way up to our platinums, then ruby (who had their clients) -- but the example of it caused some members iin my uplines group to quit, some of whom were eagle and double eagle very near platinum...becuase they never bothered to get clients...
OK, 1st of all I don't think the Pocket Plan is meant to be used in front of a prospect to show the plan. It's not meant to be read from directly. I'd a guide, or a script to help you practice showing the plan.
Also, yes the 9-6-3 is different. We show a 6-4-2. And its NOT theory! Its just a model. We show how the numbers work. Saying that it might not work exactly like that does not mean its theory. It just means you probably won't have 6 people who all sponsor 4, and then 2, ALL at the sametime! You may have one guy who has 5 sponsored, and another who has 3, but is 7 deep in one leg. Its rarely perfectly symetrical! It doesn't make it theory, its just a model. Most Platinums have more than 6 personals.
Also, the cost to RENEW is $42! Most people when they 1st get started want to get the Sample pack, and its a good idea to get the catalogs, Newsletter, etc. if you're gonna be starting a business!! That brings the cost to about $130!! Stop implying that its a lie and people are stealing money. I signed up directly online and it was $128!
The only problem with the pocket plan is it should mention the M/C rule. It says to leave them with information that goes over more details, so its possible that brochure goes over it, but the pocket plan should instruct the IBO to mention M/C volume.
However, it is VERY misleading when you critics say that the M/C rule isn't inforced, and then say doesn't that make Qx an illegal pyramid? 1st of all, how in your infinate wisdom did you deduce that it isn't enforce?? Because the "pocket plan" doesn't mention it??
Here's a newsflash - the M/C rule IS ENFORCED!! It doesn't matter what some "plan script" says, or what you forgot to say when you STP - if you have 10 people at 100pv, making you 1000pv (12% bracket) you won't get paid on Their volume! You'll only get 12% of your Personal Circle!! (stuff you buy personally & your M/C's) That's a fact!
QB>The script explains that by "redirecting your buying power, you create business volume" but never mentions that IBOs must meet "specified retail selling requirements each month" to receive any income.
FALSE!! You WILL get paid. As I stated you'll only get paid on YOUR personal circle, not your downline volume! That's why we're NOT a pyramid! The FTC's M/C rule!
So I think that its YOU who is being quite deceptive!! Stop misrepresenting the facts. We're not an illegal pyramid, or any kind of scam. Its a pretty dang simple business model thats shares the wealth, and pays those who move the volume.
df,
Sorry dude, wasn't trying to accuse you falsely or otherwise.
I understand your point about sales scripts and wasn't trying to start an argument.
Clumsily, (even more so, in retrospect) I was just pointing out I don't condemn the IBOs who use a script to begin with, provided they don't use it for long.
Yes they should develop their own style and product knowledge is a must, as well as being able to present a clear and understandable compensation plan.
I think it is a disservice to provide this particular script to the new IBO though. They are starting out wrong.
"It's a model . . . not a theory . . . " That's just silly. It's a theoretical model. It's numbers on a page, unconnected to what will really happen to the prospect should they sign up. The FTC recognized that back in 1979. That's why A/Q is still under an order requiring them to provide the actual percentage of people who reach the pin levels and their actual average incomes.
What difference does it make if the IBO reads the script to the prospect or gives the script to the prospect for the prospect to read for himself? That's a silly distinction, too. Either way, this is how the IBO is taught to present the plan.
With regard to payment of bonuses, an IBO is not supposed to receive ANY bonus unless they meet the retail sales rules. Here's what the business compendium actually says:
"4.22 Retail Sales Rule: In order to obtain the right to earn a performance Bonus during a given month, an IBO must: (a) make not less than one sale to each of 10 different retail customers (e.g., Members or Clients); or (b) have at least 50 PV of sales to any number of retail customers; or (c) have $100 at Retail Sales Rule Cost. Retail Sales Rule Cost shall mean the published IBO cost for all items on any orders sold to a Member or Client, or the actual price paid to Partner Stores by Members or Clients. If applicable, Partner Store Retail Sales Rule Cost is applied in the month when the Corporation credits Partner Store volume to an IBO's business.
4.22.1. In producing proof of such sales, the IBO should not disclose the prices at which he or she made the retail sales.
4.22.2. If such IBO fails in any month to make said retail sales and/or to produce such proof of making such sales, then he or she shall be denied his or her Performance Bonus that month and may subsequently lose all registration rights if he or she continues to fail to meet this requirement.
This Rule shall apply to an IBO until he or she attains the status of Platinum or above."
So what is happening in these groups when new prospects follow the "just redirect your volume to your own store and teach others to do the same" approach advocated in the pocket plan (and elsewhere)? Does Quixtar withhold those $6 checks? What does the upline tell the new IBOs when they don't get their $6 rebates?
And regardless, the people shown this plan are being deceived. You cannot legally present an MLM business in the manner depicted in the pocket plan.
DaddyMBW> but the example of it caused some members iin my uplines group to quit, some of whom were eagle and double eagle very near platinum...becuase they never bothered to get clients...
Could you explain that? Your upline had members or IBO's quit? And why would an Eagle or Double Eagle quit?? 1st of all doing 50 M/C pv is part of Being eagle! So if they didn't, they weren't Eagle, but even if they had Eagle Structure, but no M/C volume - you're saying they never noticed that their checks were small? You said some were almost near Platinum? So they were at 4,000 - 6,000pv and never wondered why their checks were like $30-40 bucks!!
Why does your story smell funny? Eagles and Double Eagles near Platinum quitting cause they "didn't know" you needed M/C volume to get paid on Group volume?? Thats about frickin stupid. If that actually happened those people are morons. How about just going out and getting 2 clients doing $50 bucks a month!?! Thats like a couple 12-packs of XS and a box of protein bars!! Or just quit and throw away $3 grand a month!
lawdawg, why does your version of 4.22 (M/C Volume) not match what Qblog has quoted in this very post??
QB> "4.22. Member/Client Volume: In order to obtain the right to earn a Performance Bonus *on downline volume* during a given month, an IBO must..."
"on downline volume" - I didn't see that in your quote. Can you explain why those 2 don't match??
All I know is this: If I'm at the 12% bonus, and I don't have M/C volume, I won't be paid on my group volume, just my own. So no I guess Qx doesn't withhold any checks, not if you did at least 100pv and earn a 3% bonus.
QBlog's version is the current one. They changed the rule.
But that doesn't change the basic problem with the pocket plan, even though you'd like to pretend that it does.
The pocket plan goes on to explain that the prospect will earn a bonus on his or her "downline" volume using numbers that include the personal purchases of ten IBOs with no retail at all.
What will the upline say when asked by the new IBO why he didn't get a check for his downline volume?
Tony, how many frontline IBOs have you sponsored? Are they all doing precisely 100PV? If not, then your real-life experience is at variance from the theoretical model you showed them. That is not a bad thing until people start promoting their business and fail to duplicate the model you showed them in your plan.
Unless the theoretical model can be duplicated in the real world with real money, then it is nothing more than hype.
And as all of us (or most of us) have discovered over the past few years, the hype has been fueled by the secret tools scam. So the income that should have been coming from the theoretical model was actually coming from the tools pyramid - except for those of us who were not recipients of that income stream.
The retail requirement is there to prevent the promotion of a pyramid scheme. If a presentation tool omits that requirement, then one can only conclude that the purpose of the tool is to promote a pyramid scheme.
PW
DaddyMustBeWrong,
I'm so glad you get what this business is all about. Hope there's more out there like you. Good job and keep it up!
Tony> You said some were almost near Platinum? So they were at 4,000 - 6,000pv and never wondered why their checks were like $30-40 bucks!!
Imran> Tony, think before you jump on conclusions.
A LOT of people are told to 'self report' 50 PV. I was new, I had no idea what M/C is. How is a new prospect supposed to have! When I was buying, my sponsor told me to click the 4th option (buying it for clients) and he told me that options gives most money!
Later, I received Kate from my upline (Ahmer Azam, a platinum, gone ruby, in emerald qualification) to ppl who "have not reported M/C, to SELF report M/C else they won't get bonus!!!
So all those 'morons' are more likely self-reporting.
This is you call enforcing? Self-reporting is NOT enforcing! Taking notice of such things is called noticing.
I have mailed Quixtar. I told them his name and IBO number. Nothing happened.
tapespeak tony wrote:
"OK, 1st of all I don't think the Pocket Plan is meant to be used in front of a prospect to show the plan. It's not meant to be read from directly. I'd a guide, or a script to help you practice showing the plan."
Well, what difference does that make? Whether it's being read from directly or just being used as a guide, the misleading information contained in this "pocket plan" is still being referred to when showing a prospect the quixtar business.
"However, it is VERY misleading when you critics say that the M/C rule isn't inforced, and then say doesn't that make Qx an illegal pyramid? 1st of all, how in your infinate wisdom did you deduce that it isn't enforce?? Because the "pocket plan" doesn't mention it??"
No Tony, because we personally experienced it ourselves.
"Here's a newsflash - the M/C rule IS ENFORCED!! It doesn't matter what some "plan script" says, or what you forgot to say when you STP - if you have 10 people at 100pv, making you 1000pv (12% bracket) you won't get paid on Their volume! You'll only get 12% of your Personal Circle!! (stuff you buy personally & your M/C's) That's a fact! "
These statements are so totally false and grossly misleading that I'm embarrassed to even respond to them.
Quixtar IBOs have always illegally gotten paid on their downlines' wholesale volume distribution in addition to what they've done in their personal circle.
"So I think that its YOU who is being quite deceptive!! Stop misrepresenting the facts. We're not an illegal pyramid, or any kind of scam. Its a pretty dang simple business model thats shares the wealth, and pays those who move the volume."
Spoken like a true quixbot trooper.
Mike wrote:
I don't know how much simpler it can get than this.
Now I would like one of the "networking" parasites (and I mean that in the most literal sense of the word) to explain precisely how they are not in violation of their Agreement and not committing fraud as they prosecute their so-called "business".
Mike"
Is that you peptide? :-)
I'll tell you how they explain it away, Mike. The IBO simply falls back upon the fact that retailing in the business is always an option, despite the fact that it is rarely practiced amongst the quixbots.
So let's say that you try to pin down an IBO on the fact that IBOs, for the most part, are simply making money on recruiting other IBOs to simply redirect their buying power, that IBO will then respond with "Well, we also retail to outside customers, in addition to sponsoring other people. The bottom line is that we're moving products to the end consumer, and we accomplish that aim by using every means possible in order to do that."
DH was told the same thing as Imran.
Does anyone actually know of a case where an individual IBO was denied a check, or where A/Q investigated ANY claim of retail sales volume or an IBO was even asked to present any kind of documentation regarding a retail sale?
Where is there any 'enforcement'?
"4.22.2. If such IBO fails in any month to make said retail sales and/or to produce such proof of making such sales, then he or she shall be denied his or her Performance Bonus that month and may subsequently lose all registration rights if he or she continues to fail to meet this requirement."
"...and/or to produce such proof of making such sales..." (sinceI can't make this bold in the above quote). Has ANYBODY been asked to produce proof, besides during the 1979 FTC investigation? EVER?
I still get small bonuses for the paltry PV we earn from buying the Laundry stuff, and from our downline's PV boost and the few customers - who buy at my cost - that still really like the products and buy them.
It is really odd. I have even talked about this with our sponsor's - who are Platinum's. The response was that they can determine who gets the bonus since it is their money - mostly. They can award it if they so choose. They know that technically I should not receive anything, but since it is a small incentive, why not do so.
Either way, I'm proof that an IBO can still receive a bonus and not have to 'EVER' produce proof. We have never. Not once had to do this, and we've been associated with Am/Quix since 1995.
Clifford
MLMscam -
Yep, that me...
Mike
Tony -
AmQuix does not enforce the retail rule, the spirit and the letter of which is to prevent people from building sponsoring-focused "networks". I personally witnessed dozens of the sales reporting sheets filled-out with totally fraudulent information (note that I don't know if those things still exist in the same format). I was "taught" to do that, as was every last person that I have ever known to be involved.
It's all there in black-and-white from the company themselves - "networking" is a fraud and is illegal. Everyone invovled in the continuance of it is just as guilty as the king-pins.
Or, in other words, you are a (petty) criminal and what you are doing is actionable.
Sleep well...
Mike
"Does anyone actually know of a case here an individual IBO was denied a check, or where A/Q investigated ANY claim of retail sales volume or an IBO was even asked to present any kind of documentation regarding a retail sale?"
Actually this guy reported himself as not meeting the RSR rule and asked why he got a bonus on downline volume.
"An IBO's Adventure with the RSR"
http://www.amquix.info/amway_rsr_violation.html
"Daddy, what's a pyramid scheme?"
Well, pumpkin, it is why Daddy is gone 3-4 nights a week, dumping you off to friends and family.
It is why Daddy doesn't have any cash to take you to the movies or on vacation.
It is why mommy yells at Daddy (and vice versa) over money and time spent away from you.
Basically baby, I am ruining your life now in hopes that it will be better later. Its a 1 in 14,000 chance from what I've been told.
But, hey, it is YOUR childhood I am putting on the line, so I decided to go for it.
Hmmm.....
scott larsen> Actually this guy reported himself as not meeting the RSR rule and asked why he got a bonus on downline volume.
Uh, am I missing something? I read your link - the guys check for $22 was for HIS personal volume, he got 9% of HIS volume, he was NOT paid any % of his downline volume. Everything in those emails supported what I said. If you don't do your M/C req. you'll only get paid for your personal circle!!
Mike> "networking" is a fraud and is illegal.
What are you smoking? Define "networking". You're saying we can't sponsor? Retail or not, we can't sponsor people?? Dude, go sit back down in the corner and sniff your glue. You're hopeless.
As for people falsly claiming M/C pv - I was never told too, and I don't. If I ever didn't make $100 retail in 1 month, I would report whatever I give out as samples, but so far I never have even though I'm entitled to. Whenever you give out samples, that can be claimed as M/C volume. But I've never had to do so. Thats on those whoever claim it if its not legit.
And for those who are telling people "ah, you don't have to retail" - BOTH are at fault there! One, the upline for misrepresenting the M/C rule, and also the new IBO for not reading the IBO plan when he registered.
All I know is I was told about the 50 m/c rule, and meet it. When I didn't (mainly in the beginning) I wasn't paid on downline volume. Just like the guy in Larsen's link.
"Daddy, what's a corporation."
Well pumpkin, thats why mommy and daddy are gone for 5-6 days a week, sometimes 8-12 hours a day, dumping you off at "DayCare" to be raised by total stangers.
Its why daddy has ulcers and gray hair, and why I can't play with you after breakfast. Its also why I'm more likely to die earlier since I'm probably gonna have to work til I'm 72!
Its why mommy yells at daddy when I'm home late and miss dinner cause I was stuck at the office again.
Basically baby, I'm watching you grow up 2-dimensionally thru the pictures on my desk, cause I leave the house everyday while you're asleep and sometimes get home when its almost time for you to go to bed.
But hey, its whats everybody else does, so I guess I should just keep with the norm and hope it works out. Although I hear only 2% of people at 65 can retire financially stable. But I guess I can be like all the others, and just be dependant upon you, or just find another job. I always thought it'd be cool to be a WM greeter.
HMMM....
Maybe you didn't read the entire the article in the link Scott posted. Did you see this part:
"I have received a check for $56.63, can I cash this check? I did not buy anything from quixtar or did I do any retail sales. My uplines have said that I do not have to do retail sales. I have been told its OK to cash the check, is it? It is my understanding by reading the policy and procedures (Rules) from quixtar I have to do retail sales, is it true?"
If he didn't buy anything or do any retail sales, what are you referring to as personal volume Tony??
What volume am I talking about?
"According to our information, your personal PV/BV for the February was 112.79/233.50. Since you were at the 9% bonus level, 9% of 233.50 is $21.02. That would be the bonus amount you keep. Hope this answers your questions. Take care, JHF
But then suddenly the amount is $56?? Typo? Same month? Wasn't it $21.02? But either way the reply was this:
Mark,
You may cash the check, it is from February pv/bv. It is your bonus check.
So he may not have bought anything in the current month. But you get paid on what you did last month. But hey if you want to say that he didn't buy anything or retail anything - then hey - I guess Quixtar is giving out free money! Better deal than I thought! ;) :P
Tony. I think that people who are involved in Quixtar, there is less free time to be had.
The reason being that they have to go to work as well as take time to do all of the Quixtar plan showing / attending functions etc.
The really high pins seem to have even less free time.
I don't know about anyone else, but I prefer to enjoy my free time, rather that take a second job that pays hardly anything.
Tony you are confusing the two IBO's. Read the letter sent by IBO Mark that I posted below. It is not ME saying he didn't buy anything or retail anything, it is Mark saying it in a letter to Quixtar.
How can you just imply that the check he recieved was for a prior months personal volume? He doesn't say that in his letter, and it doesn't refer to a prior month in Quixtars lame response. Look at the dates in the response below. In fact, why would he even be asking Quixtar the question if that was so? That doesn't make any sense. Try again.
Here is the IBO's question concerning his $56 check and Quixtars response as posted. Notice the dates. Quixtars response dated beginning of April (the 4th) says the check was for February's pv! Mark clearly says he had no retail sales and no purchases. What does the referrence to personal pv mean? It just shows Quixtar themselves are perpetrators in the pyramid cover up.
"To: Member_Support*quixtar.com
From: mohillab@***.com
I have received a check for $56.63, can I cash this check? I did not buy anything from quixtar or did I do any retail sales. My uplines have said that I do not have to do retail sales. I have been told its OK to cash the check, is it? It is my understanding by reading the policy and procedures (Rules) from quixtar I have to do retail sales, is it true?
Thanks
Mark
IBO # 2260660
Subject:
Question
To: mohillab**.com
From: Member_Support*quixtar.com
Date:Wed, 4 Apr 2001 13:48:21 -0400
Mark,
You may cash the check, it is from February pv/bv. It is your bonus check. The rule is correct, however, this check is from personal purchases and downline pv/bv.
Thank you,
Jennifer
Business Information Services "
Tony, tony, tony..........
You just don't get it, do you. Not only are you incapable of original thought (nice copycat), but you can't even put the right spin on your slanted views!
I work a straight 40 (sometimes less if I hit my weekly and/or monthly goals) and my kids have grown up to be well adjusted, socially-apt youngsters.
One would argue that daycare is good for socialization skills. I am sure you and your cult would want to keep your kids at home to brainwash them -- homeschool em, keep the tv off, keep the newspaper away, heck, might as well black-out the windows! I have no problem sending my kids to play with other kids while I go work.
I have time to coach little league and even make it home to dinner at a reasonable hour. So your negative description of a
J-O-B is false.
Granted, there are people that are overworked and underpaid. And there are people that squander instead of saving. But, that is choice of condition that people choose to live under.
I have no remorse for these people just as I have no remorse for those individuals stupid enough to stay in A/Q.
Have fun at your next event Tony, while your son/daughter would give anything just to be with you...........
"I work a straight 40"
yeah right df... What.. are they paying you to post here? Is that your job? Obviously you are taking time from that job to do this or taking away from your valuable time with your family. So what's your point to spending all this time here? Get back to work.... or maybe I should say.. not!
M & M, an average american spends 15 hours / week watching TV. what it DF spends some of the time here.
Heck, it's fun here ;) A nice cyber slack while working. Safter than porn. ;)
Daddy, what's entrepreneurism?
Well baby, that's where Daddy goes out and works real hard to develop a business, which he owns, providing desireable goods and services for his customers and employment opportunities for his workers- to whom he pays a living wage, because he helps them develop business skills which have real value.
He works real hard, but remembers how important his family is too. So, because he owns his business, he can take time to do fun stuff with his family- and afford it. Because his business is based on solid principles, and a legitimate need, it makes money, so he doesn't need a second job. Or a "side business" selling overpriced commodities. Or your mom to work.
Early retirement is an option, dear. But when you've found something in your life that you have passion for, and it's legally unassailable, you find the idea of retirement has changed. As long as you live your life in balance, sweety, you can make choices - choices not based on greed, but on serving the true needs of others.
And Daddy doesn't have to pretend to be something he's not - and doesn't have to lie about the name of his business. In fact, he's proud of the brands he has created, and his rightful position in the market.
I say the following with apologies to Dave, the only real Quixtar "salesman" I know, but:
If the Quixtar "parasites" (thanks Mike :-) ) at the high pin levels continue to build their fortunes on tools and the motivation system in general, and ignore (which we know, statistically, that they do ignore) the proper RETAIL movement of product, then they are building their futures on quixsand (sic). Because, at some point, the FTC will crack down on "self-reported" retail volume and insist on a more highly formalized reporting system.
I believe that such a system will be onerous and unworkable for the average distributor. Recruitment will plummet with the added complexity, and given the already horrid distributor retention of Am/Quix, the sales volume and perceived success of the few profitable distributors will plummet equally.
According to one of my attorneys, the FTC (along with many SAG's) is looking hard at self reporting of retail... Lawdawg?
Tony and M&M, you haven't a clue. Good luck.
Mike: "It's all there in black-and-white from the company themselves - "networking" is a fraud and is illegal. Everyone invovled in the continuance of it is just as guilty as the king-pins.
Or, in other words, you are a (petty) criminal and what you are doing is actionable.
Sleep well..."
I agree with the sentiment, but... I hope that you meant ""networking" IN THE ABSENCE OF RETAIL SALES is a fraud and is illegal."
So far, "legitimate" MLM's are still legal. But that's another discussion for another day.
Well said Keith......
and I reiterate "Have fun at your next event Tony, while your son/daughter would give anything just to be with you..........."
It is amazing Embot. I have a little league game in 2 hours and I still found time to wirte a 3 minute post! Unbelievable, isn't it ?!?!?
guys,
why do you think wwdb implimented the 10-10-10 program to generate retail customers? because it works to generate retail customers. I've figured out that an average family of four could easily consume 100PV at around $110 at retail cost per month. Heck, I am just a single guy and I consume about 120 PV alone. It is not a difficult business. I don't know anything about this "pocket plan" they are referring to. I use the PFR and SA4400 when I show the plan.
Qblog, BTW I used your website in the plan if someone wanted to do the research on quixtar. I told the prospects "not only does qblog look at quixtar with a critical eye when he needs to, but he also praises quixtar too."
I think most people here don't have Tony's cognitive issues, but I have never (here or in the forum) stated that IBOs shouldn't be able to sponsor. I stated, as did the FTC, AmQuix, and Rich DeVos (whom I am sure doesn't know as much about this topic as Tony) that sponsoring-focused MLM is illegal and untenable for 99% IBOs as a business model.
In real business, were profit matters and performance claims made when offering a business must be verifiable, people wouldn’t be permitted to “duplicate themselves� until they had proven they had the ability to build a business.
How much more simply this can be stated?
Mike
Michael> Heck, I am just a single guy and I consume about 120 PV alone.
Imran> Michael, for the benifits of many others IBOs, would you like to share your shopping cart?
Our whole family can't generate even 50 PV by "redirecting". 5 ppl and 2 cats! Where ARE all the PV gone btw?
"Daddy, what's a negative sum game?"
Well pumpkin, it's when everybody in a group is trying to make money on a particular scheme, where in order for a few people to be making money, everybody else has to be losing money.
It's why daddy no longer has any friends or family left to talk to, because he at one time recruited them into this scheme, promising them that they would be making untold fortunes, and they then wound up losing their shirts.
It's why mommy yells at daddy for being such an ignorant jackass for falling for this get rich quick trap in the first place.
Basically baby, I developed a bad name amongst all the other daddys for trying to get them to spend money that they didn't have for overpriced junk that they couldn't afford - nor ever needed in the first place - just so your daddy could have you, me and mommy all walk together on the beaches of the world someday.
But hey, you couldn't really blame me all along for what I was doing, because I was being brainwashed by listening to all of those ridiculous tapes and attending all of those fruitless seminars, while all along blindly following and obeying my upline like he was some kind of God.
hmmm.....
"Well pumpkin, thats why mommy and daddy are gone for 5-6 days a week, sometimes 8-12 hours a day, dumping you off at "DayCare" to be raised by total stangers."
Me>Isn't the average work week 40 hours? That's a lot of free time if you ask me. Day Care, I went to Day Care until the 6th grade, and even that my parents picked me up before 5, which left at least 4 hours of time to spend with them before bed, at least. They had the whole weekend off too.
"Its why daddy has ulcers and gray hair, and why I can't play with you after breakfast. Its also why I'm more likely to die earlier since I'm probably gonna have to work til I'm 72!"
Me>Not if you're wise with your money and invest into 401(k) or other types of savings. Does Quixtar offer IBO's 401(k) savings? Do they offer health and benefit plans to IBO's? I don't know, that's why I'm asking.
"Its why mommy yells at daddy when I'm home late and miss dinner cause I was stuck at the office again."
Me>And this is different from having to attend a function during the week...how? Plus, how often do people really stay late at the office. Cite your sources please...if you can.
"Basically baby, I'm watching you grow up 2-dimensionally thru the pictures on my desk, cause I leave the house everyday while you're asleep and sometimes get home when its almost time for you to go to bed."
Me>Again, this doesn't fit with normal 40 hour work weeks.
"But hey, its whats everybody else does, so I guess I should just keep with the norm and hope it works out. Although I hear only 2% of people at 65 can retire financially stable. But I guess I can be like all the others, and just be dependant upon you, or just find another job. I always thought it'd be cool to be a WM greeter."
Me>You have facts to cite that 2% figure dude? I'd sure like to know where you got that from. And, do you have any facts to show that amount and what percentage of IBO's who've been able to retire before the age of 65? I'd also like to point out there's a difference between retiring and having a side job at Wal-Mart (what's with all the WM comparisons?) because you want to stay a little active and perhaps receive a little bit of side money to complement your 401(k) and Social Security.
HMMM....
Kudos to Keith & Fitz
Why did Embot and Tonybot try to change the subject? To get to the other side???
I don't thiiiiiibk so.....
Be good to yer kids -- it is Father's Day afterall.........
Kudos to Keith & Fitz
Why did Embot and Tonybot try to change the subject? To get to the other side???
I don't thiiiiiink so.....
Be good to yer kids -- it is Father's Day afterall.........
Tony> Although I hear only 2% of people at 65 can retire financially stable.
Imran> You are wrong. This is an indication how much you are lied to:
http://www.amquix.info/humor/retirement/retirement.html
Amway Triple Diamond, Ronald Puryear, cited a study to
refute the probablility that this man actually retired. Mr. Puryear noted "according to
the American Banker's Association, 98% of people are dead or broke before the age of 65".
We have this statistic printed on all PFR training materials so that we can scare people into joining our
private franchising business. Mr. Puryear noted the study was found in the
1934 Senate hearings before the enactment of Social Security.
The 20,000 study participants were all born before the American civil war.
well u r not wrong Tony, u r right for like 70 years ago, after market crash of 1929? and taking a survey of civil war survivors. Go back 70 more years and the average age of an american male was 34.
;)
Imran,
I'd be happy to share my shopping cart! Ever hear of Kahvecchino's? They are one of the best cold cappuchino drinks on the planet. They come in 12 to a case, and carry 14.95PV per case at a retail cost of $27 or around $2.25 each bottle. I consume easily 5 cases per month at 74.95PV and a total retail cost of $135. Not only that, these things carry a BV of 17.95. Also they are kosher certified ;-)
I also order 2 or 3 cases XS, a bottle of cal mag D, and those frugibars every week.
Imran,
I forgot to mention that one could easily get 2 new IBO's per week on this plan x 50 weeks=100 new IBO's. Do the math with the numbers I gave you- There's your 2 to 5 year plan!
Michael,
Can all of your 100 new IBO's per year duplicate that model?
Keith,
As I explained before, I am just a single guy doing that much PV. An average family of four should at least be able to double my efforts, if not more. So to answer your question, YES anybody can duplicate it. I know this is going to sound like tapespeak here, but I am the guy they look to when they say if he can do it, so can I. It's just $135 per month for a single guy. Not difficult at all. Lets look at it like this.
An average family of four could easily consume 10 cases. That's only $270. But look at the PV. That's 149.50PV right there.
I never thought I'd say this, but I have to agree with Michael on this one point:
Kavachino is pretty darn tasty.
Keith wrote:
"Michael,
Can all of your 100 new IBO's per year duplicate that model?"
Of course they can't - as dictated by the mathematics behind the negative sum game existing in a wholesale distribution scheme that exists in "business opportunities" such as quixtar.
Since I first started posting on this board, I must have thoroughly dissected this issue at least a dozen times, and not once has an IBO even attempted to refute what I was saying (other than to resort to ad-hominem attacks against myself); and I ain't holdin' my breath waiting to see if that scenario ever will happen.
Wow. $135 a month on flavored iced coffee? You must be single if you can afford that. And the rest of the shopping cart is equally as ludicrous for a family...10 cases of Kahvacchino (which IS awfully good, DH bought me some a year or two ago), a couple cases of XS (another fun but useless grocery item), and some vitamins I can by for a fourth of the price elsewhere.
I feed a family of 6 on $500 a month, including non-edible consumables. If I spent $270 on nonsense like iced coffee and XS, that leaves me $230 a month, or a little over $7 a DAY to feed 6 people. Even if I got a 12% 'bonus' on that, we'd still have to give up eating for about two and a half days every week, and we'd be out of toilet paper by the end of the second week of the month.
And this is precisely where I have the problem. "Buy what you normally would, but buy it from yourself!" is a great way to end up in bankruptcy court. It's just not possible to earn more in bonus money that what you're over-spending on product unless you have a really big RETAIL organization, and so far, after 10 years, the only product DH has been able to retail with any regularity are the gift albums. The stuff is so overpriced, nobody but those in the pyramid will buy it.
And the numbers for the 'average profit' don't even include this huge shift in consumer spending to the overpriced AmQuix product. If the average IBO is earning $115 a month, and buying from his 'own store', he's lost money before he even purchases a tool.
Thanks Michael.
Well I don't want to drink that much cappuccino. I'm happy with my tea that cost me less than 25 cents a day. (Red Rose) but it's good to know.
Your BV is less.....bonus is actually paid on BV, PV is for bracket? So you do around 200 BV...?
CAL MAG? I heard it's for ladies. Excess of calcium in males can cause problem. But again, ur health condition is different I heard (from you) so perhaps you need it. I'm sure u have consulted a doctor.
If your cappuccino is tasty and you can retail it (Like 3,4 cases) ....more power to you. My concern is if you are spending extra money on these items, and not getting it back via retail profit, and your 2 IBOs / week doing same, then (and only then) it is a –ve sum game. Else not.
Imran,
As to your answer about cal mag D, yes because of my health challenges I have to keep my calcium levels at a certain level. I only take the cal mag d when my calcium is low and cal mag D is approved by my doctor.
Also, no I am not spending anything EXTRA on my business. Its things I use on a daily basis anyways. I cut back on daily spending $6.00 for cappuchino's from Carabou coffee down the road.
I just want to leave you with one thought for the day:
"Those that think they can, and those that think they can't, you're right."-Henry Ford
Even Mafia guys 'think they can' and law abiding citizens ' think they can't'. So Michael, tell me who is right? Stop playing with words and show us the results something like net income or Schedule C will suiffice.... Well I am sure its kind of difficult when your 'BEST OPPORTUNITY' business averages $1400/year GROSS income!!! :-))
Btw..stop driniking so much coffee.. its not good for you.
Michael wrote:
"I just want to leave you with one thought for the day:
"Those that think they can, and those that think they can't, you're right."-Henry Ford"
Well Michael, let's take the thought process of a major drug dealer - one who makes a lot of money pushing his poison onto the innocent & gullible youth of society.
Now, I'm sure this individual has that same exact thought process - that if he thinks that he can be successful in his trade, then he will be, hence he is.
This individual has also followed Henry Ford's principle of success. Are you now going to tell me that this person is somebody that should be admired and looked upon as one of life's success stories?
I'm not trying to knock Henry Ford or his principles here, I'm just trying to alert you to the fact that there is another famous saying in life that one should be aware of:
"There's two sides to every coin".
Michael - I'm no doctor / dietitian. But I heard caffeine dilutes calcium.
And I'm not saying it for criticizing you. Just want u to be healthy ;)
I was involved with the EIBIZ team for 16 years. I've watched all the different scripts and other tools come and go.Tom Payne is a Triple Diamond and has been on the IBOA board several times.He has made a fortune selling Ibo's all these tools over the years. He promotes making customers out of people that don't get involved. I gave away samples,catalogs and more and could never get steady customers. After 16 years all I had was a bunch of tools and 1 customer.The only customer I had I got because I put a ad up at Wal-Mart. People would not become customers because of the high prices. If the products and prices were good I beleive I would have had better results. I know all the ibos will call me a loser but since I quit I am making more money and keeping more than I ever have.
Thanks, Mlmscam, for stepping into the vacuum of thought evidenced by Michael's response. I'm only surprised that it was mlmscam that got to it before LawDawg.
The point I was trying to make, for the uninitiated, was two-fold:
The aformentioned zero-sum game in an endless-chain, non-retail based MLM, where participants are encouraged PRIMARILY to change their buying habits for personal use, and not expressly required to sell at retail
and
Where the next 100 are each encourages that the next 100 downline from them will be similarly "easy" to find and entice into this plan.
100 X 100 X 100... X 100 becomes a pretty large number, pretty quickly.
A legitimate retail REQUIREMENT in a legitimate MLM is a substantial barrier to entry, and limits those who want to join to (hopefully) at least those who want to participate an a process that adds market value - the sales process.
Anything short of this becomes a wholesale buying club BY DEFINITION.
Mike>I forgot to mention that one could easily get 2 new IBO's per week on this plan x 50 weeks=100 new IBO's. Do the math with the numbers I gave you- There's your 2 to 5 year plan!
Me>Do you honestly believe it's that easy to recruit 2 new people a week? Have you done this? How many people have you recruited since joining AmQuix? Whatever happened to focusing on getting people to buy your stuff, not having others join in on "the business".
And that's my biggest beef with this scam, and it is a scam. Wouldn't a normal business approach me to buy products, not to join. That's what happened with me. I'm in the mall, and some nice guy starts chatting it up with me. He used to live in my hometown and we chat some more. He says he has a business opportunity for me. Now, since he's made a connection with me, would he offer for me to join rather than offer to have me peruse some of his products? That's the problem, there's simply not enough emphasis on selling products. My dad sells automotive service equiptment, but he doesn't buy EVERYTHING he uses to fix his vehicles from himself. If he can find something better and less expensive, than he'll do that.
Imran,
Thanks for your concern about my health! I am as healthy as I have ever been in my life, considering I've been through 2 kidney transplants and enough dialysis. My doctors are constantly impressed with my lab results. Any food product or nutritional product I get through the business I always check with my doctors first to make sure it won't react with my anti rejection meds.
Fitz, as to your question, YES considering all I've been through it is incredibly easy to sponsor 2 people per week on a part time basis. When I started building this business I was working 40 hrs per week, going through dialysis 3 times per week at 4 hours per run. If dialysis isn't bad enough I was incredibly weak physically and didn't attend functions. Also, to answer your question about 'Wouldn't a normal business approach me to buy products, not to join?' It depends on which approach a person wants to use and what he is intending to do. If he is out strictly looking for retail customers, then I would lead with the products. If one is recruiting, I'd lead with the opportunity. For one, leading with the opportunity is easier, because if they aren't interested in the business, but they can see the benefits, I can at least sign them up as a new retail client.
As much as I want to hear about Michael's kidneys and shopping basket , I'd really like to get back to the subject at hand.
What is the purpose of the pocket plan? I mean, I know that it is a tool created to increase revenue of the upline/big pins, but really, what is its SALES purpose?
If you need a script, you probably aren't knowledgeable enough to really sell the product yet?
And what is the product being sold? Is it the product (XS, vitamins, etc) or is it the IBO membership?
These are two completely different items, being sold under the same 'script'. It doesn't make sense.
And we know that the ambots love to follow the McDonalds 'franchise' example. So, let me break it down to them in this regard.
When I go into a McDonalds, I have ONE experience. It is a uniform experience made up of the franchise-created food, service and atmosphere. No one is trying to get me to try Burger King food, nor is anyone to get me to buy a hamburger chain.
So, if the ambots really do want to emulate the McD's franchise plan, why don't they truly follow it ???
I would hate to think that the McDonald's franchise spiel is nothing more than a lark used to perpetuate the increase sales of unrelated motivational devices.....that is just crazytalk.....
df wrote:
"What is the purpose of the pocket plan? I mean, I know that it is a tool created to increase revenue of the upline/big pins, but really, what is its SALES purpose?"
Very simply, it's to motivate IBOs to purchase as many quixtar products as possible - without regard to their values or whether the bots need those products in the first place - under the guise that by following this game plan they will set the "right example" for their downlines to follow, and hence become rich off of the latter's purchases of the same products.
It's a pure rip off. Look at this:
http://tinyurl.com/d35xv
And it's actually not bad. I remember buying 5 leaflets for like $30. They were comparing Quixtar products to the main stream products. They could be quite effective for retailing, but look at the price: 5 leaflets for $30? Yeah they carried PV.
Shouldn't we be getting such cheaper to produce support material for free so we can sell products?
Nah! this opportunity is not designed to sell at all. It's to suck as much money as it can.
Re:4.22. Member/Client Volume:
My understanding is this; IBO's buying products are not buying for themselves but for their businesses and are required to retail their personal use products at the suggested retail price, thus creating a sale to a client (4.22. Member/Client Volume) which one becomes at the time of purchase. If an IBO purchases products through their business at the list price and does not "buy" his or her personal use products at retail price THEN he or she is not considered to be RETAILING and could be considered a PROSUMER. The profit margin between the list price and the retail is one of the true benifits of being an IBO. Not taking advantage of this proceedure only hurts the IBO's business at tax time thus defeating the purpose of being in business. There is no real way to monitor whether an IBO is retailing the products they buy so every registered active IBO is considered to be qualified to receive bonus checks according to the independent business builders agreement. Secondly, my understanding is the only difference in registration for an IBO to a Prosumer is that the IBO will receive specific information revolving around HOW TO build their business and that information is not usually of interest to PROSUMERS, prosumers traditionally just want the benifits of shopping provided with their memberships. The extra cost that is incurred determines the price difference in registration from $130 or so to $42 or so? And the price difference determines one level of interest in becoming or not becoming an Inedpendent business owner... why spend the extra money on something your not interested in? And why register someone that isn't interested in building a business? For those who don't know, the PV/BV from the additional information would not measure up to the headached of a displeased mislead IBO. The buying power of a PROSUMER is the same but being recognized as a person who is truly interested in building a business is determined by the "recommended" additional information. A start up kit, which is a sample product kit, contains several of the core line products and is a great way to familiarize interested new businesses with some of the more commonly used products availible with out stifling a new business builder financially. All this said, I have investigated this business thoroughly and like everything it has its pros and cons... it is not a business for everyone and everyone will not build this business. There a different aspects of this business that are appealing to the individual. Just as in life we all have different paths, today mine is posting on your site, why? Because I can. Why do people find Quixtar appealing? Because they can!
I think your BLOG (weblog)is a healthy way for humans to express themselves and you seem to be quite succesful with it? (determined by your number readers)
It might seem Quixtar/Amway/WWDB has helped in your individual success... because this is a direct reflection of their existance.
For the record; I am not an active IBO nor am I against YOU or Quixtar... I wish you both equal success!
Peace to all living creatures!
B-
Nice spin there Brent!!! Whatever you say dude.
Amway/Quixtar is for morons and idiots who can't make it in regular life. And the irony is 99% of them don't make it in Amway either.
My last post was no "Spin"??? it is the facts of the basic fundamentals of commercial business. All commercial businesses produce a product or service designed for a end user. The idea is to create a large client base or subscriber base that will generate revenue to help support the businesses daily operations.
Creating a positive revenue stream is usually the goal correct?
The Quixtar business model is nothing new to the world of business? (yawn)
Same basic principles, granted I am talking purely the business model not business ethics... business ethics are relative to the individual business owner THATS where I believe most people are confused.
The Quixtar business is merely a turn key business solution not nessesarily for everyones liking but name a business that is?
My last post was just my interprtation of the grey area between IBO to Client and how a new business builder may be confused as to why the registration prices differ from Prosumer to IBO, when they both have similar buying power?
So here's your "Spin"
I believe that the people that frequent this BLOG have had some affiliation to Amway or Quixtar at sometime? According to your recent statement
((( Amway/Quixtar is for morons and idiots who can't make it in regular life )))
Are you saying these people are morons and idiots?
Have you ever been affiliated with Amway or Quixtar Prasad... and if so would that make you a Moron or an Idiot or both?
And if not what do you base your facts on?
Is it not true that experience is the best teacher?
Or are you basing your opinions on what others say... and I'm guessing you know what they say about opinions?
It seems to me that the Publisher/Editor of this BLOG, as well as his wife, were affiliated with Amway/Quixtar?
This person "Qblog" whom I don't know personally, nor do I know his wife, seems to me to be a very intelligent person... because I find it hard to believe a Moron or an Idiot would have the mental capacity to create the thought required in developing this site... AND I don't believe he would marry one either?
B-
Brent,
Yes!! a lot of people join this scam unknowingly. But even after you get all the fatcs, if you stick around in Amquix, yes you are a moron and an idiot. There are a ton of people here who joined and quit after finding out the truth about this cult.
I know business fundamentals... I have more education than most of Ambots can think of. But in the name of revenue creation, most of the Ambots consume only tapes, CDs and motivational crap.
I can sense a Ambot a mile away....you my friend is a deeply entrenched Ambot. Whoever praises Sabrix business model is nothing but brainwashed.
Thats why I call it " SPIN"
Sorry its not Sabrix its Amquix!!!
brent wrote:
"My last post was no "Spin"??? it is the facts of the basic fundamentals of commercial business. All commercial businesses produce a product or service designed for a end user. The idea is to create a large client base or subscriber base that will generate revenue to help support the businesses daily operations."
mlmscam wrote:
"Daddy, what's a negative sum game?"
Well pumpkin, it's when everybody in a group is trying to make money on a particular scheme, where in order for a few people to be making money, everybody else has to be losing money.
It's why daddy no longer has any friends or family left to talk to, because he at one time recruited them into this scheme, promising them that they would be making untold fortunes, and they then wound up losing their shirts.
It's why mommy yells at daddy for being such an ignorant jackass for falling for this get rich quick trap in the first place.
Basically baby, I developed a bad name amongst all the other daddys for trying to get them to spend money that they didn't have for overpriced junk that they couldn't afford - nor ever needed in the first place - just so your daddy could have you, me and mommy all walk together on the beaches of the world someday.
But hey, you couldn't really blame me all along for what I was doing, because I was being brainwashed by listening to all of those ridiculous tapes and attending all of those fruitless seminars, while all along blindly following and obeying my upline like he was some kind of God.
hmmm.....
Prasad
I do not doubt that you are an intelligent person and I appreciate your response.
My guess is an "Ambot" is a Amway robot and again I am telling you I am not involved in Amway, and not taking an active role in Quixtar or WWDB.
I am not here to defend any of these comapnies OR the people involved in these companies and I am not here to defend the people of this BLOG either.
My original response was directed to the comment about the 4.22. Member/Client Volume:
It was a very simple response that has been inflated to a competition of words, not without my support I agree.
There is no debating that Quixtar is a not a business for everyone, I am an example of this. The not so simple (as it would seem) fact of the matter is Quixtar is a successful, approved US based business, with a basic business model.
Does every business succeed in the US... NO!
An extremely high rate of businesses fail every year do to many different issues.
Does every person in America win by going to work everyday... NO.
Most Americans a steadily struggling through their existance.
The risk that is taken to achieve success on any level is a choice. The choices combined with opportunity is what makes this country so attractive, but there is always a price that someone will have to pay to achieve thier dreams or goals.
In response to MLMSCAM:
I'm sorry to hear about your Daddy but what does that have to do with the basic fundematals of business?
Quixtar is just a turn key business solution, if a person goes into ANY business with the thoughts of getting rich quick, they will be disapointed quick rather than RICH. Success comes from proper planning, hard work, disipline and perseverance... which I'm sure you already know? But knowing it and applying it are two different things.
If my purpose is dedicated to uncovering negative aspects of something, then they will be uncovered because that was my purpose... correct?
Most people are opposed to direct marketing because through out the day they are steadily being sold something... it can be offensive I agree, for that reason I personally don't deal with high pressure sales people... I can tell you that "I" am a programed consumer as are most people in America. I can sing you commercial jingles, I can list name bran products and services and even identify coporated logos... is that not being brain-washed? Do you not have knowledge of current market products mlmscam?
Going to school is a type of brain-washing and although educating yourself is impotant wouldn't "Higher learning institutions" fall into this category? You pay money for books and tapes go into debt and walk a way with a piece of paper that says your qualified to perform certain tasks? More people buy into this system then any other... and does it work? SURE it works, a small % of people that graduate from a college or university go on to be very successful but the largest % do not. Now we are talking crazy mad numbers of people that have bought into this system over the history of Higher Learning... without getting to far off the subject, educating your mind obviously has an impact on your performance? If you want to call books, tapes and attending seminars brain-washing well then so be it... the comment is a little extreme but I'm guessing it is being loosely used?
Re:"Daddy, what's a negative sum game?"
Well pumpkin, it's when everybody in a group is trying to make money on a particular scheme, where in order for a few people to be making money, everybody else has to be losing money.:
Interesting interpretation of the Negative Sum Game theory... but I would say what your trying to explain here is closer to the "Zero sum" theory.
Just an observation, you might want to look into that more for editorial purposes?
B-
why are you out there telling lies about the company and what good they are doing for others. yeah we have to sell products, but dont the man who owns the convenience store around the street have to sell products. you are buying from him anyway, why not buy from urself and then sell to others who want quality products. price may be a bit higher but u get what u pay for. u people disguss me. you guys are doing what with your lives, working a job, still an executive living broke busted and disgusted. why do you spread things on the web about the things others do, if you dont like it dont play with other peoples minds let them make decisions on their own your not there dad and your definately ot jesus, i would tell you a few nice words but im a christian now because of this business and the team im with so go to hell and take your broke family with you. Loogans, true loogans.
And furthermore, to quote what the original definition of a pyramid scheme was is selling products to people in your downline..
Explain to me when you ever would want to do that anyways.. you want to sell to customers, so you can get the cost differential between what you pay and what they would pay. You also get paid for recruiting people. In Quixtar you get no such payout. As your business grows, sure you get a higher percentage of your own volume, but you have to work for it, it's not handed out to you. Just because you hate your regular daily job, doesn't mean you have to hate on this. Ultimately it's the people that hate on it so much that end up seeing their friends do very well in it, and then kick themselves after for not getting involved. Just my opinion of course, but something I've noticed over time..
Yeah, I have mailed them that in Gala LOS, many people are doing business who are not authorized to. Quixtar looked other way! If INs find out, many Gala IBOs are in trouble! Their chances of getting green card will be real slim! And my upline said to them, "Don't worry about it, just trust me"
And I can relate to this situation 101%.
"Coincidentally, the "Pocket Plan" is very similar to what I was shown several times while my wife was involved with Quixtar. We were encouraged to change our shopping habits and teach others to do the same. We were also admonished to ignore the Member/Client Volume Rule (Rule 4.22 cited above). My wife didn't know any better and she trusted her "friends" and believed that they wouldn't lie to her about how to operate her Quixtar business. And maybe her upline didn't know any better either, seems that ignorance of the rules is pretty common among Quixtar IBOs."
Yeah, ditto!
Posted by: Imran Aziz | June 17, 2005 6:41 AM