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May 2, 2005
Monday Reader Mail: Special Edition
By QBlog in Reader Mail
Today's installment of Reader Mail is expanded to accommodate its uncharacteristic length and format. Generally, the Reader Mail series features a single email and my comments. However, this particular installment consists of several email exchanges between the Reader (Bob) and me. Bob's messages will appear in blue. I have not edited any of the emails except to correct some grammar and protect identities. Also, Bob's email display name was Jim S. which explains my confusion about his name.
My reason for doing this Special Edition is that the communication between me and Bob encapsulates my experience with many Quixtar IBOs, including my wife's former upline. In fact, the frustration that resulted from similar communications while my wife was still in "the biz" served (in part) as the impetus for this blog.
Finally, before getting to the emails, I would like to thank Bob for actually responding to my messages. It's unfortunately rare that someone replies to my questions and I was delighted that Bob took the time to engage in a dialogue.
name: Bob
date: April 26, 2005
message: Hi Ed. I was checking out your site and noticed in your About section you claim to be unbiased and try to maintain objectivity with regards to Quixtar. But all of the links listed on the first page are definitely anti-Quixtar. Blogs, news reports, everything... Do you need some links for all of the positive stories out there from reputable sources? I can send you some in the interest of "fair and balanced" reporting if you wish.
Let me know what you think, and have a great day!
Bob
name: QBlog
date: April 28
message: Hi Bob,
I would very much like for you to send me some links to all the positive stories
out there from reputable sources. Send them to me and I'll post them all on
my blog.
Thanks,
Eric J
name: Jim S.
date: April 28
message: That's nice to hear... hopefully some of them make it to the first page:
- quixtarfacts.com
- ibofacts.com
- quixtarresponse.com (response to the Dateline link you have)
- internetretailer.com (Lists some partner stores whose lawyers think it's a good idea to link with Quixtar)
- stores.org (Quixtar #7 online)
- Business 2.0
Quixtar has been a leader in online Health & Beauty for years. In the "Numbers" section of its December 2001 issue, Business 2.0 ranked Quixtar #1 in sales for the online Health & Beauty category, with 20.5% of the estimated $1.45 billion market segment. Based on the analysis of Nielsen/NetRatings and Harris Interactive eCommercePulse, Quixtar was ranked ahead of Drugstore.com (12.2%), Merck-Medco.com (5.7%), Avon.com (4.5%). and MaryKay.com (4.1%).
That should be good for now. Not saying Quixtar or its people are good or bad, but I've done years of research on this company, and most legitimate sources are positive to it. The negatives are former IBOs and media sources, typically.
I'll be interested to see your links page in the future.
Bob
name: QBlog
date: April 28
message: These are your reputable sources? These are your stories? This "should be good for now?"
You sent me three general links to sites run by Quixtar or its IBOs, a link to InternetRetailer’s 6 month old, three paragraph blurb announcing partner stores and a link to Business 2.0’s home page (which makes no mention of Quixtar). This is the best you can do? You’re not impressing me Jim.
So you’ve done "years of research on this company" and this is what you come up with? Ok, here’s the "positive" that I’ve come up with after over two years of researching this business:
- I have a link to a Quixtar employee run blog on all my pages (including my home page)
- I have a link to a blog run by a Quixtar IBO on all my pages (including home page)
- My News page includes links to five blogs sympathetic to Quixtar (2 run by IBOs and 3 run by employees)
- There are the following links to various posts on my blog that have something
positive or neutral to say about Quixtar:
Positive Things About Quixtar
Trying To Figure Out The Truth
Single Day Sales Record
Amway Sales Growing
Sometimes People Make Sense
Why I Don't Hate Quixtar
I Like SA8
Bless Orrin Woodward's Site Redesign
Interview With IBO Systems
Jennie Loves Quixtar
RedStar Is Live
Quixtar BackBone Project
Record Day
All of the "March Of Perceptions" series
Now THAT should get you started. There’s a bit more on my blog if you’re interested. And to be quite honest, my blog is possibly the world’s largest repository of unbiased and totally independent collection of positive or neutral stories and information about Quixtar.
By the way, my name’s Eric not Ed.
- Eric J.
name: Jim S.
date: April 28
message: Wow... those blog links of yours sure are reputable. Um, who are they?
Or is this your way of saying you won't put the links up to offer balance. If you have a negative article from Dateline, perhaps you should put Quixtar's response up as well. Instead, you have a collection of blogs and opinionated editorials.
Count the beans, they don't add up. You can't with a clear conscience think that it's balance.
name: QBlog
date: April 29
message: Jim (or is it Bob?),
You’re obviously missing my point. Your original statement called into question the volume of "positive" content from reputable sources linked from my blog. I have scoured the Internet for such content for over two years and wanted to see what you found that I missed. Your response was not what you promised. They weren’t stories and from reputable sources. If you want to argue about what qualifies as a reputable source, we can do that but generally the content produced by a company about its own business is considered biased.
There are other issues as well:
- I’ve searched the Web for over two years and haven’t found many "positive stories" about Quixtar. What I do find, I post on my blog. I suggest you follow the links I submitted. You’ll see that some of them are posts that link to OTHER sources. And sometimes when I can’t find positive stories from reputable sources, I create my own. My challenge to you remains, please send me links to positive stories about Quixtar from reputable sources.
- You questioned my ability (and willingness) to link to content that was positive about Quixtar. My response provided links and examples of how I do link to positive content, repeatedly. I might contrast that with Quixtar’s unwillingness to link to independent sites that pose tough questions.
- Your response here is telling. Instead of replying in kind, with a host of links as you promised, you attempt to bait me into posting your links (all of which I already link to on my blog except for the Internet Retailer link) and frame it as a question of conscience. Interesting strategy but not one I’m entirely unfamiliar with.
I suggest you spend some time researching the Web and my blog to become better educated. Those who have put in the time and effort generally understand that I strives to be a voice of fairness and independence on my blog.
I still want those links.
Thanks,
Eric J.
name: Jim S.
date: April 30
message: Eric,
It's Bob. I must apologize, I didn't follow the blog links because I don't really
pay much attention to uncorrobarated opinions. I went to your site because it's
the first that pops on Google, and wanted to be familiar with it.
As for links to stories, the majority of reputable business sources i.e. Business 2.0, New York Times, Hoover's Online, etc. are subscription sites. Any links I send you won't work. Nor will I send you the articles and violate copyright or my subscription ToA. I might recommend yourself subscribing to those three sources as a start and do some research there. As we both know, anything free is worth what you pay for it.
I also know this. John Maxwell, an acclaimed author on the topic of leadership and who happens to have the most shelf space at Barnes & Noble, went on record stating, "Among all of the businessmen and leaders that I have the pleasure of knowing, there is nobody that I respect more than Ron Puryear [head of World Wide Group]."
John Sestina has gone on record on tape stating that aside from a military or govt. pension, there is no better method of long term wealth than the Quixtar business. Frank Feather, noted futurist, has gone on record stating that Quixtar will be one of the 5 largest online buisnesses in the world. Dr. Bill Quain, professor of marketing For the University of Florida has written books on Quixtar and its benefits.
And probably my favorite endorsement comes from a man named Glen Wilson. He is a retired Secret Service agent of 20 years and now the CIA Agent in Charge for southern Arizona and Mexico. He did research on this business with capabilities we don't have, through DoJ, DoD, FCC, FTC, Secret Service archives, and others. He stand by this business as well.
So, given that list of individuals who support Quixtar and have something to lose financially by their support, I'll trust them, and not some guy who sets up a blog on the Internet. No offense intended to yourself or other bloggers. There just isn't the same respect or possibility of loss behind the claims that you make.
Bob
name: QBlog
date: April 30
message: Bob,
Please provide links or detailed bibliographical references for all the quotes,
material and claims that you make. There is no copyright violation to send links
to subscription services and I subscribe to all of them that you list.
Also, why would you complain about my lack of links if you’re claiming that it’s impossible to link to those sites anyway? If you send me what I ask, I’ll publish it. Just pointing out that you changed from your earlier position of claiming to know of "links for all of the positive stories out there from reputable sources."
You haven’t sent me links and I’d like those links. If links aren’t possible (in the case of a book or non-online industry journal) then a detailed bibliography will suffice (I’m assuming you know how to compile a compliant bibliography but if not, let me know and I’ll send you instructions).
What I’m basically asking for is corroboration of your claims. And no offense is taken, I’m just asking you to prove your claims. I look forward to your reply with the proof.
Thanks,
Eric J
name: Jim S.
date: April 30
message: http://www.team-kmi.com/headlines.php3
name: QBlog
date: April 30
message: Thanks Bob,
Though I’m not quite sure what you sent me. I asked for detailed sources
and you sent me a link to a headlines page, that contained no references to
any of the content you mentioned previously (that I could find). However, I
continued to search through the site to see if there were other spots that contained
what you promised and came up empty. Can you be more specific please?
Thanks,
Eric
name: Jim S.
date: May 1
message: Apparently that link didn't contain what you wanted? referenced new articles and endorsements? I guess I'm not quite sure what you want then.... sorry.
Bob
name: QBlog
date: May 1
message: The linked page contains the headlines of five articles dating back from Sept. 2003 to July 2001. None of the articles mention Quixtar and therefore, can’t have a positive story about Quixtar. To be sure we’re looking at the same thing, I see the following headlines (one isn’t linked so I won’t include it):
- USA Today - September 15, 2003 - Middle class barely treads water
- MSN Money - April 28, 2003 - Is $1 million enough to retire on?
- NY Times - Aug 17, 2001 - Dell Loses $101 Million for Quarter
- NY Times - Jul 12, 2001 - Yahoo loses $48 million in the first quarter
- NY Times - Jul 06, 2001 - Jobless Rate Rises to 4.5% as Economy Remains Weak
The endorsements do not reference any of the quotes you mentioned below, at least not from what I could find from my review.
Basically, what I’m wanting is the detail you promised (by implication) to provide. For example, if I say that there’s a story about the new Apple operating system at CNN.com, you may search for quite some time and never find the exact story I’m referencing. You may find a story about Apple, but for us to communicate clearly we must be sure that we’re reading the same story.
The best way to ensure such clarity in communication is for me to be as specific as possible. To do that I would provide a link to the exact story or directions on how to get to that story and possibly some context of why that story is important. CNN Link - Discusses the new Mac OS
However, you have given me nothing but general directions.
"How do I get to the theater?"
"Drive that way."
"Which way?"
"That way."
"Do I turn? Which street should I look for?"
"Guess I’m not sure what you want then, sorry."
My point is that you initiated this dialogue by implying that you knew (with a certainty) of positive stories about Quixtar from reputable sources. Yet I’m having a very difficult time getting links or bibliographical references to such stories. Either you were overstating and exaggerating to begin with or you were simply lying or maybe you were stating something that you didn’t know to be true for yourself?
Whatever the case may be, I’d really like the material you indicate is out there. If you say it’s there, let’s see it.
Thanks,
Eric
Comments
but, but but.....eric, my upline told me, so it is TRUE! how dare you question the validity of the upline -- look how much money they have! you can't get all that money running around being a liar (just look at bush & cheney), someone must have checked the facts prior to me, so if the upline is still stating them, i belive him.
Where is Mr. Quain's "fruit on the tree"?
The guy peddles books titled "Reclaiming The American Dream: The Keys To Financial Freedom", yet he still has a job at some no-name college.
What would Dexter say?
As Jim S./Bob mentioned, WWDB has a new Emerald, Glen Wilson, an ex-Secret Service guy, who spoke at the most recent major function - Spring Leadership 2005. One of his major points in his talk was that when he saw the plan, he used ALL of his resources (as mentioned above) to research everything he could find about Amway (at the time).
His conclusion was that Amway was not only a legitimate business, but the best business opportunity around; so he decided to build the business. At the Spring Leadership, he made fun of prospects who've told him that they've "checked this out", implying that NO ONE has checked this out more than Glen Wilson.
WWDBers now believe that to do their own research about Quixtar would be redundant, Glen Wilson has done it for them! We will be hearing this defense a few more times in the coming months, if not years.
Jim S. sounds almost exactly like my IBO friends. When he questioned the credibility of my sources, I asked him, "Did your upline tell you to say that or are you saying that on your own accord?" and he said, "It's my own." Well, I guess I'll show my friend this post.
Ha! how many times this "sooper dooper secret" services have failed. Recently about weapon of mass distruction fiasco. (Or did they?)
Besides, what sort of business it is where secret service have to give assurity that it is legit?? E.g. I never have to tell any one (Whom I meet in person) that I'm a guy.
If Quixtar has been so good to Dr. Quain, wouldn't we see on his resume that he owns a Quixtar business, and wouldn't he include his pro Q books that he has written on his reume as well?
I'd ask him, but I've already corresponded with him via e-mail with some honest questions (I wasn't trying to sound like a smart aleck, but I guess he thought I did.) that he wasn't able to answer. He basically told me that if I was happy with my life to "just get on with life and stop bothering me (Dr.Quain) with my questions." He also told me his life story and how money has been the great panacea for all of the problems he has faced.
I think Secret Agent man will fit right in with the diamond crowd. Obviously he's not to keen in the ethics department if he's using up government resources to investigate an opportunity for personal gain.
That is NOT what government intelligence is for, and for him to be advertising that he did that tells me one of two things:
1. He has a big mouth
2. He's not too bright.
That is, if he did check into it with all his resources available. Just goes to show, you don't need to be smart to be in the secret service.
AntiQbots,
So by your very words that just because they aren't in the business they have no credibility?
Then by your definition-for those that "quit" yet like to comment in here have no credibility?
DMM Why not at least try to clean up your Amazon links by using tinyurl.com? It's much easier. Thanks ;-)
Instead of IBO's having to question their upline, why can't IBO's question YOU??
Why wouldn't John Maxwell say that about Ron Puryear? He is making Maxwell even richer when he makes his IBO's on standing order pay $10 per cd think about it even if there are only 50,000ambots on STO thats over $150,000 for one week! ($3 premium per CD going to Maxwell ....might get even more) and "recommends" the books and especially pushes the package sets at major functions.
Same thing with the other men. They are becoming rich by IBO's. If people would just once ask the question would my upline be doing this business if the "tools" income was taken away? (emerald and above) Most would not and that should tell you what the scam is all about.
Michael,
We tell folks to have their own brain and questions sources. I used to take Paul Miller and Bill Britt at face value..
Bill Britt said he had only one wife and all divorced 2 timers are losers, well he cheated on peg
Paul Cheated on Debbie.
Anti-Quxtar folks have alot more detailed and verified sources than the generalistic canned replies that IBO's do.
First, Michael, if I knew how to use tinyurl.com, I would, but I'm not that technical. I'm not a web designer, just a big user. If someone else wants to help me clean up the link, I'm all for it. I did put the url in the URL: link in the response, so the link should be easier to follow.
Second, with Dr. Quain's credibility, the question we ask is if MLM is such a great business model, and Dr. Quain is such an advocate, why doesn't Dr. Quain follow is own advice? Also, Dr. Quain's book on MLM is 11 years old, and can be bought used for a $.01 on Amazon. What does this say about Dr. Quain's book? It certainly isn't in high demand, not to mention, in 11 years, the good doctor has yet to write about MLM again. This begs the question of whether or not Dr. Quain has changed his mine in the past decade.
Certainly the creditibility of all posters here can and should be questioned. I myself have never been an IBO and I do admit that because of this, there is information and experiences that I lack, and therefore I may not have all the information. That's why I say everyone should do their own due diligence and fact finding, and make up their own minds. I'll offer my opinion to anyone who asks, but I hope nobody makes a decision based on my opinions only. There's plenty of information out there for those who seek it.
Ah Michael, how big was ur tax refund? Or should I find online ;)
Dmm,
Thank you for your honest response and not some witty comeback-it's much appreciated. ;-)
ex-dd You still haven't answered my question.
As far as anti quixtar folks having more detailed and verified sources than IBO's is certainly debatable and questionable. Does that mean one who is a platinum in the business and is making this business work know less than average anti-ambots?I highly doubt it. Just because one makes it to a certain level then quits-knows everything? I don't think so.
It's just a question of who is credible and who isn't.
It's not about your opinions being right, it's about getting the facts straight.
Imran,
My tax return has absolutely nothing to do with this.
I am just questioning who has more credibility that's all. If you take offense to that, that's your problem- don't make this a personal battle, I am just stating my opinions.
Okay, Michael, let's play a game. It's called FRAUD:
I'm a business owner who sells a variety of products, but for every dollar in product I sell to you, I sell you $9 of educational materials. Only thing is, I don't tell you that. Nor do I tell your recruits that.
So now you have a big organization full of IBOs who are paying $1 for products and $9 for system expenses. You are a Platinum Direct, but neither you nor your group knows how much I'm making off your group for the tools. All you know is that you're working hard selling products and supporting your business through the "system."
Who knows more about the business? You or your group?
PW
Michael,
I want you to know I am not offended so my tone is not of that.
What question did I not answer?
You have not research amquix site very well. It has alot of documentation. He has ex-diamonds, even Brigg Hart who has attained a higher level than you.
So what is your level?
Your time in the business?
I Know alot morew than you I am sure of that. I was more in the inner circle. I know what has been said behind closed doors.
I have been in meetings serving the bigger pins(emeralds diamonds) and heard the speeches.
I know all the tool breakdowns.
I have seen and heard Paul Miller state 75% if his income is from tools/meetings.
You refuse to believe it
We supply more credible info than any IBO does.
Your just a brainwashed Pawn
Michael (or any IBO for that matter),
When you show the plan to potential new recruits, do you mention the tool money, which the higher pins earn?
If so, then bravo for being up front and allowing people to make an informed decision.
After I was prospected, I found out from the internet where the income of the high pins came from.
I felt a little deceived to say the least!
Michael> I am just questioning who has more credibility that's all. If you take offense to that, that's your problem- don't make this a personal battle, I am just stating my opinions.
Imran> Look who is saying :) u r the one who posted in ur blog that u r not going to hang out on negative sites, yet accusing me for taking offense?
Speaking of credibility, how about ameralds and diamonds who have done the business and know more than a rookie IBO?
PS: You should consider buying a car with ur refund.
Michael.
Some day you're going to feel really stupid for defending the indefensible.
You said:
Instead of IBO's having to question their upline, why can't IBO's question YOU??
Nobody has a problem with IBO's questioning critic's opinions, I don't think. IBO's seem to have a problem when the truth is casting their rinky dink business in a negative light.
Truth: Most of the money is made from tools in any given diamondship.
Truth: AmQuix is NOT a more efficient way of moving goods and services
Truth: Most, if not all of the AmQuix motivational speakers (the actual IBO speakers not the guest speakers) would not be able to motivate anyone who is not an IBO. They'd likely get booed out of the building because of their idiotic mindset and massive egos. Non IBO's would see them for who they really are.
Truth: The prices suck eggs.
Truth: I have yet to hear of a Quixtar only IBO in North America. 5 years since it started. Sad.
Truth: The overwhelming majority of the profit is created through deceptive business practices, as experienced by The Buzzard in this very post.
It's not the critics that are flawed, it's your leadership, including the Amway and Quixtar people for allowing it to happen.
You can argue with the critics all you want, but the truth is a little harder to contend with, isn't it?
I prooved my point.
You guys will stop at nothing just to make your opinions right, who cares what an IBO knows.
ex-dd,
You Don't know more than I know- your trying to be arrogant, it's not going to work.
Imran- this website isn't a negative site- qblog provides quality information. Why do you think I have him on my favorite links list on my blog? The people who post here make it negative. Thanks for the advice on the return, but I put it toward something that appreciates- a mutual fund.
Rocket and every other antiQbot, you talk to us IBO's about having an original thought, why don't you quit reading and quoting from the amquix site? Have a thought of your own for once!
Hey, Michael!
What about me?
Michael,
You still did not answer the questions,
How long have you been in?
What is your level?
How many Standing orders?
WHat was your profit?
And finally what question did I not answer?
I know alot more secrets than you, or you would not question us.
By the way what are your thoughts on all the Big Pins scandals?
Bill Britts affair
Pauls Millers Affair
Dex Yeagers Sexual advances on employee
and all the other big diamonds listed at amquix?
Michael Michael motorcycle
Every single one of those is a thought I came up with on my own. We don't have any dream smashing motivational tapes to quote.
I see you had no real rebuttal to any of those comments. Must be because deep down you know they're all true.
Otherwise, if I'd pointed out something that was inaccurate, you'd be all over it faster than I could type Peter Island.
No, I'll leave the tapespeak to you. I think for myself, thanks.
ex-dd,
If you have ever read any of my blogs, I have told my story in there. I think I have mentioned it in the forums a few times as well.
How long have you been in?
I have been in since 11/1999(never been in Amway BTW, just quixtar).
What is your level?
I am officially a qualified double eagle, getting ready to re-qualify at platinum.
How many Standing orders?
12 on standing order(for double eagle parameters) which I cover the cost 100% for my downline. In case you haven't heard standing order is only $2.50 per tape or CD.
What was your profit?
Profit on what? Books, tapes or CD's, functions? :-)
And finally what question did I not answer?
My quetion was on credibility, if you scroll through the posts. It's listed in there.
Rocket,
How come you continually refer us IBO's to read the amquix site then? To me, thats considered tapespeak only in a negative form. Or rather, the pot calling the kettle black.
Also if you think that If I don't respond to your petty commentary, it doesn't mean your right.
Guys, one last thing, I am not here to pick fights with anyone, I am just posting friendly propinions thats all.
Hey Michael
Just one question you forgot to answer. Mine is a few posts below.
I can repeat it if you like:
Do IBOs mention the tool money to their prospects when they show the plan?
This was not mentioned to me when I was shown the plan. I felt deceived when I found out what the true source of the king pins' income was, namely the sale of books, tapes and functions.
My would-be sponsor indicated that all the money came from selling Amway products. To give this gentleman the benefit of the doubt, it's possible he did not know about the tool money either.
Mikey, still on negative sites.
I have referred to the Amquix site only to prove points that I have been making, never to develop the grounds for my opinion. Feel free to search the archives to prove me wrong.
Furthermore, I use that site to underscore my own points, which I have thought out on my own, and am not just dribbling rehashed flim flam answers which the AmQuix leaders expect you to do when spouting off about your rinky dink affair you got going there.
The Amquix site is the best data based web site on Quixtar, and I am using Quixtar in that comparison. To truly understand the business, including all the hidden crap that the plan does not share it is a must read. Kudos to Larsen. He has helped more people than you will ever be able to.
I notice you have no real responses to the facts I previously posted. No surprise there.
It's not that I think you can't achieve success in AmQuix. It's that I know you can't, not by the way the plan is presented anyway. If you do happen to succeed, it will be at the expense of many.
I would like to, but I cannot wish you luck with that.
Get a grip my friend.
Hey Buzz,
That's a pretty rediculous question to ask when you already know the answer. :-)
Like I have stated before, I have opinions about the business and you have opinions about the business. Lets just agree to disagree.
Thanks for the answer, Michael. I don't believe the question was ridiculous and did not already know the answer!
I think I know the answer now though!
I was prospected back in the days of Amway, not Quixtar. I wondered if anything much had changed since then. Like I mentioned a couple of times before, I felt somewhat deceived when I found out about the tool money.
As a result of this I decided to take my chances earning a crust elsewhere.
Michael,
Thanks for answering my questions. I did not know you had a blog, I did not see it referenced here. What is it?
I am curious, are you getting a tool break?
What Line of sponsorship are you in?
What r your thoughts on the big pins affairs? going against their stage talk?
Michael:
Wow, an eye opener! only $2.50 per cd or tape for SOT! My former upline was charging $6.00 per tape, $8.00 per CD.
I got screwed. Royally.
$2.50 a tape/CD...What Line of sponsorship[ are you in? We were at $6.50 for a tape when we left in 01. I got $1.00 per tape and 20% off books
The $2.50 tape price suggests to me that Michael is in the WWDB (WWG) line of sponsorship. The tool break is IF you are have a PREMIUM membership for WWG, which includes a website, AND discounts on tools. The price is somewhere around $30-$35 month I believe.
ex-dd,imanewme,and disenchanted,
Yes I am in the WWDB/Puryear LOS. The $2.50 price just changed about two months ago(I think Qblog wrote an article about it). As far as the alleged affairs, I don't really know who these people are or what the circumstances were. So therefore, to be quite honest with you, I don't have a response for that. I will admit that I like to keep to myself most of the time and focus on helping my downline.
Ex-dd, I am not getting a tool break, if anything I am giving my downline a tool break so long as they are trying to be core and are willing to do the work. If I ever got a tool break I would reinvest it into my downlines pockets.
ex-dd if you click on my name, I believe the re-direct will take you to my blog.
In any event, if the business was half as good as it was advertised, motivation would not be required.
The business would be profitable for all, and anyone who wanted to become successful through hard work could, and the financial and personal rewards would be motivation enough.
I understand major corporations use motivation, and I'm not against motivation. It has its place. But motivation in the real world sells because people get results by using their services. If they didn't, they wouldn't have much of an audience to speak to. They are accountable.
No major corporation would listen to an overpriced speaker tell them that success is just around the corner, all you have to do is believe, and don't worry about the details.
IF this was half as good a business as IBO's would have you believe, it could work
But it ain't
Rocket,
Every business large or small needs modivation at one point or another.In case you haven't studied multi level programs, most multi level programs have motivational/tools programs for their teams.
My question to you rocket, is if you didn't need any motivation, how come your not successful yet? I'm not picking you, I am just trying to make a valid point.
The key to motivation is inspiration. That's not tapespeak, thats the truth. How much motivation does your boss give you to produce for him? If you weren't a motivated employee I can guarantee you'd be fired.
How many Standing orders?
"12 on standing order(for double eagle parameters) which I cover the cost 100% for my downline. In case you haven't heard standing order is only $2.50 per tape or CD."
So you pay for the weekly tapes for your downline? That is very kind of you.
"What was your profit?
Profit on what? Books, tapes or CD's, functions? :-)"
You forgot to answer this question. is there a certain reason that you avoided it? I mean you didn't have any problem telling us that you were a double eagle, but for us laymen out here, that really doen't amount a hill of beans. Most business people can usually find a way to indicate if they are making a profit. Are you able to do that? A lot of AQ people aren't able to find out that key element in running a business. Consequently, they never really know if they are making or losing money.
I guess it doesn't matter, just so long as you feel good about yourself and think positive, huh?
Inquiring mind,
I was trying to clarify what you meant by profit.
In the case of tools profit (since that's what you have been focusing on), I've already answered that for ex-dd.
Nice one Scott, I see that Qrushed is still there. What a shame that his latest update was made before Qrush did the off!
Does anyone have a clue who these two characters were? I wouldn't be surprised if they were both the same person.
Ahh, again with the glib comments Michael. You said:
"My question to you rocket, is if you didn't need any motivation, how come your not successful yet?"
Number 1, I do consider myself successful. I make a decent income, my family goes without very little, we have no debt to speak of ( I live in government housing for my occupation) I am able to invest into retirement every year, and I have a generous pension on top of that. My wife and I take a Carribbean holiday every January except this year, my wife couldn't fly due to her pregnancy.(Born in February a little girl!)
Secondly, to be successful is a very individual thing. Many many people who make less than I do consider themselves successful, and I agree with them. There is no finite yardstick from which to measure success. It is as individual a definition of you as your fingerprints are.
Thirdly, my motivation for being successful, I'm very proud to say, does not have the same paramenters as the Amway version of success. Money is a distant, distant factor for success to me.
To get where I am, I motivated myself. I wanted to do what I do, and nothing was going to stop me from doing it. It was entirely up to me whether or not I acheived my goal, and I recognized and addressed that on my own. I certainly don't need to listen to a tape a day in order to get what i want out of life, and anyone who thinks that will be a major factor over determination and hard work needs to re-examine their goal and why it is important to them.
Save your canned questions about success for someone less intelligent, because I am successful. In fact, don't even take into account money (because that is just a piss poor measure of success) and I am successful in every sense of the word.
Yes, a lot of businesses to utilize motivation, but their business does not turn into motivation. I never have said motivation doesn't have its place.
Sometimes it just ends up where it doesn't belong.
Regarding Success:
I'm broke as broke gets but since I graduated this month from college with a 4.0 I consider myself successful... and I doubt I'll find anyone willing to argue against that. :)
Here here, Rocket!
Money certainly cannot buy happiness. It does, however, buy a more acceptable form of misery!
I've been with my current company for several years, and not once have I gone to a motivational meeting, or listened to a motivational tape. I've had books suggested to me to read to help me do my job better and become a better manager, but these books were either lent to me, or I went to the library and checked them out for free. And for the record, I found most of them of little use.
My motivation for my job is the same motivation AmQuix people should use. And that is money. If I don't do my work, I don't get paid. I don't get paid, and my family and I can't eat, live in the nice house we have, drive the nice cars, wear the nice clothes, etc. To me, that's motivation enough.
And when I worked with my family that owned our own business, it was the same motivation. No money in the bank equals no food on the table. It wasn't always easy, and in fact, it was often hard, but the bottom line has always been, if I don't work, I can't support my family. And believe me, it's all the motivation I truly need.
As for success, I also ask, how does one measure it? At my age, I have more then my father had, and much more then his father had. Measure it generationally, and both my father and grandfather would call me successful. But, I have less then some of my peers. Does that make me unsuccessful?
In the end, rocket nails it. Success is like beauty, it is in the eye of the beholder. And if someone is happy where he is and with his accomplishments, who are we to say he isn't successful.
Rocket,
First off let me tell you congrats on the new member of your family- that's worth more than anything. I am happy for you. I want to send you a customary Cigar. I hope the baby is doing well.
Secondly- I agree 100% with you guys about money being a motivational factor, but money isnt the only thing in life. I am devoting a whole new series on my blog dedicated to motivation and goals and dreams. For me, money isn't the motivation, it's what money can buy that is my motivation :-)
DMM- you hit the nail on the head too. About who is to say if you are successful or not? To tell you the truth I only profit $1,000 per month from this biz, but I consider myself successful.
I was talking with a good friend of mine online and he was dreaming of what he would buy when and if he ever one the big jackpot. I asked him, why is it OK to dream about winning it big in the lottery when the odds of winning are 80 million to one and its a sin to dream big in this business?
I am devoting a whole series to that in my blog too.
Thanks guys this was an enjoyable conversation for once.
"For me, money isn't the motivation, it's what money can buy that is my motivation :-)"
I doubt that many people dream about having tons of little green papers with numbers on them. When most people are motivated by money, it IS what they can buy with it, not just having money itself.
The problem I have with AQ is the whole coveting mentality. When my family members showed me and my husband the plan, it all started with "What could you do with some extra money?..." and it was off to dream land. I started feeling guilty for being content with my lifestyle. As middle class as it may be, I really enjoy my job. I may not get rich at it, but I do think that I am successful at it, and I make a decent living.
The problem I see is when is enough money enough for most people? There is always going to be something else that we think we "need" to have.
As for all the altruistic "dreams" that people have, supporting missions and charities, if we Christians woudl just tithe to their churches, the Church would have enough money to support missions galore.
I wish we could somehow get the passion, conviction, and commitment that AQ draws out of people and get that energy into our church body. Maybe if we give a bonus for every visitor that each member brings to church. If that visitor becomes a member, then the bonus gets bigger...hey! I think I'm on to something!...
Yes, the comment about it being the things money buys is just typical of Amway people.
Thanks for the congrats, I do appreciate it, but my point went whizzing over your head, obviously. As far as the cigar, thanks! Incidentally, I have a hilarious cigar story that I think would be funny to share sometime.
As far as how my boss motivates me, I really don't need it. My boss and I get along, and we have disagreements, but I can always speak my mind to him and he knows it's not personal. Allow me to refresh:
"How much motivation does your boss give you to produce for him?"
I don't need my boss to motivate me. Period. I am paid to do a job, and part of being a grown up and a responsible member of society is doing your part. Making the boss into a villian because he is a supervisor is childish and short sighted.
Basically Michael, there is no pie in the sky lifestyle available that you are trying to achieve. Understand that. All money, all the toys, freedom and no responsibilities is just not reality. Unless you happen to belong to an extremely minute portion of society, most people have to accomplish something to be able to have a comfortable life, with all the amenities.
Even diamonds do not have the lifestyles that they try to portray, they're being deceptive, and it's all part of the system deception.
It's just not there my friend, despite what the upline may say.
Sorry for the lengthy post (again)
Michael there are a lot of things I want to say to you. I encourage you to read my blog, I'm going to give my opinion on the same subjects. One thing though. YOUR ODDS OF HITTING BIG IN THE LOTTERY ARE BETTER THAN MAKING IT TO DIAMOND!!!!!!! Look at the statistics, I'm serious when I say that. You have a better chance sitting in a casino then doing the Quixtar thing. One in six Americans are millionaires. You have a better chance of just working a normal career and becoming a millionaire than doing Quixtar. You are being scammed! You are scamming people! For what? $1000 profit a month? $12,000 a year? HAHAHAHHAHAHAHAH! Man you people are thick headed!
After reading "Posted by: inquiring mind at May 2, 2005 11:09 PM"
Out of curiosity, just thinking out aloud and not trying to annoy anyone-I dont understand why you would ask for non-biased opinions and then question them cause theyre not in a mlm. Its strange that someone asks for something and when they get it they doubt it. You ask that for reference to non affiliated material and then ask "why if youre so positive, why dont you have a mlm business?"
Of course if youre a member or employee youll be positive.
And of course if youre an ex-member or disgruntled family youll be negative.
Thats biasm.
I support open-mindedness but not silly loop arguements.
Thanks for a great site! Its quiet entertaining:-)
Hello Everyone,
I've just read the banter going back and forth with people for and against the whole Quixtar thing.
I just want to know what's the big deal?
It's for some people, it's not for some people. A lot of people quit each year- as with everything else. Quitters everywhere, even some with good reasons.
It takes a lot of work and most people don't want to do it after a long day at their jobs. That's reasonable. You are suprised that people don't make it in Quixtar? Why don't we turn the company you work at into a 'no-boss/ no-building/ no-expected time commitment' situation- how well would you do? What are we comparing Quixtar to? How does it compare with 'sales force' type businesses?
If Quixtar sets it up like a job, then it would work better. You get paid $50k/ yr. to go phone 200 people each day for Mon. and Tues. Wed and Thur you show the compensation plan in 30min appointment slots with interview room, XS fridge, powersuit, laptop, and a secretary. Fri you do training in a boardroom with leather and wood and with audio visual splendor. There are product demo booths with other employees.
It costs $200 to get in, so any joker can call himself a business owner. "I'm gonna be RICH!" 6 rejections later- he becomes a statistic. Did you know that 97% of IBOs never recruit more than 6 people? How's it supposed to work for these people? Rejection is tough. No one wants to sell anything, especially a concept.
Some people build it ethically, some don't, the same as any company. My upline Paul Beatch has always been honest with me. I asked about the tool money and he told me, no big deal. We left WWDB and joined INA. Differences in opinion, no big deal. I'm willing to bet that in a company of 40-50 people there would be problems with different methods of doing business, personalities, politics and ethics. How would a company with 750 000 indie home based IBOs fare better? Britt & Miller had an affair? Big deal. You Americans love Clinton. He's so charming, he's on Oprah all the time, he's just as sleazy, but did he do some good? For some people he did. How about Britt & Miller? Stupid-yes. Bad men-no! They have helped a lot of people. Not a lot of people backing them up right now, but hey- that's how people are. Are you surprised?
I'll been in 'real' businesses with buildings, inventory and employees. We have to run crazy numbers to get employees and to get customers, and then figure out ways to get them to buy more and repeatedly. Restaurants, Debit/ Credit Card terminal sales, Water Coolers, ATMs, Clothing Retail.
The issue of 'making money off people'- the MONEY is always made on the masses of consumers! In everything- cellphones, internet subscribtions, cosmetics, designer clothes, you name it. Do franchisors make money off their franchisees? Of course!
I know a lot of franchisees that spend tons of money on their businesses, so what?Also, a 'sandwich-type' franchise owner told me that he paid $140K for his business (that's before he opened). I don't know what his operating costs are monthly. 7 days training in which he flew to the States on his own dollar for. He pays for 30% more expensive product that is shipped from the US by the franchisor. He quit his engineering job and now works 50hrs. a week and will be at $0 dollars in 3yrs. He likes what he does, and thinks it's a good business. People are complaining about a couple hundred dollars of 'tools' each month? That's if you need them, if you're not actively recruiting, you won't need any tools! Just listen and read the same $100 worth of stuff until you decide to quit or do something. You don't have to quit what you are doing in a job? You can take as long as you want and no one can kick you out or 'fire' you? That's a negative? In some direct sales companies in ATMs and D/ C Card Terminals have your indepedant sales contract auto cancel if no product is moved within 60days. Then you can't work for anyone in the same industry for 90days+. No one is checking up on you? You don't have to pay for a building, or what comes with it, or employees, or equipment to run your business, no contract disputes, other companies trying to steal the few good employees or sales reps, no government dealings? The products are too expensive? In Canada, you have to pay 3% of your payroll as a fee for the priveledge of being allowed to hire employees. That's only one thing that I'm pointing at when it comes to the government. Life is unreasonable. When I'm selling debit/ credit card terminals to small businesses I have to call on 200 people a week to get 15 appointments to sell 4-5 a week, plus tons and tons of phone calls, driving around. People negging on appointments and on contracts signed. All this to make a decent living. I've gone through 60 sales people to find 7 that move product monthly. 4 of these 7 just got 'real' jobs. You're worried about 2-3 (30min)plans/ wk, every wk for 5yrs? I wish I could be that consistent on top of my job, but I don't see that as a big demand either. You sell people tools, books, and functions- so what? When I was running a huge downtown restaurant- we went through 30-35 interviews with prospective employees each month to grow it into and keep it a $3.5million dollar restaurant each year. We trapped them in a building for 10hrs., carrot and sticked them all the time, and 80% Plus of them weren't motivated.
What we need to use our creative energy on is how do we protect our family from the coming Bird Flu Outbreak! Do you have enough stocked food and water if there is a massive quarantine? What else do we need to survive if we can't be in contact with people? Do you have stuff to trade with people? Are you out of debt, because if you live through it those big credit card companies will want their money!Generator? I don't know. 'Experts' estimate that it could (on the worst side) wipe out 100 million human beings. What can we do to help each other as far a legitimate information about preparing the best we can. Everyone says that we are long overdue for a major outbreak. The last pandemic wiped out one third of the world population.
Concerned, Dat To from Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Have you seen this before? It's a number guessing game: http://www.amblesideprimary.com/ambleweb/mentalmaths/guessthenumber.html. I guessed 57285, and it got it right! Pretty neat.
The problem with the business is the deception. Organizations like Britt/WWDB talk about working 6-10 hours per week for 5 years to become diamond. I have found that to be completely untrue.
The time commitment is much more than that and the majority of the profits is from tapes and meetings. Brad Duncan (Triple Diamond currently??) went on a rant about how they don't make money off the meetings back at a function I attended in 1994. He went on for 15 minutes about how they do these meetings out of the goodness of their hearts.
Paul Miller said that 75% of the profit was from tapes and functions.
Thanks for lying to 10,000 people Duncan. How many people did he hurt with that rant? I suspect 9,800 of the 10,000 in attendance were financially hurt because of those comments.
With the real time commitment required, the deception about the tapes and functions, and the brainwashing I can honestly say that WWDB and most of the other organizations in the Amway/Quixtar world are doing a LOT more bad than good.
It is a cash cow for those at the top and they don't care who gets hurt on their way to the top. The sad thing is, for most distributors, they just parrot what their upline says and they don't even realize that they are lying and hurting people.
Sad, sad business.
Do pro AmQuix people ever take the time to confirm what they are told from their downline. For example, and this took less then five minutes to find. Dr. Quain isn't a professor at The University of Florida, located in Gainesville, but Florida International University, located in Miami. You can find this rather easily, because Dr. Quain posts his resume online, http://www.quain.com/resume.htm. Sure it doesn't really matter which school Dr. Quain is employed at, as he is still a university professor, but get the facts right. It's not that hard.
Also from this resume link, we also learn the title and publication date of Dr. Quain's pro-MLM book. It's called, "Reclaiming the American Dream : The Keys to Financial Freedom," printed in 1994. If you would like a copy, you can buy one REAL cheap from Amazon.com, http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/offer-listing/0962364614/qid=1115047774/sr=8-1/ref=xs_ap_bun1_xgl14_a//103-1901032-0887020?condition=all.
Posted by: dmm | May 2, 2005 4:56 PM