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May 30, 2005
Monday Reader Mail: 45
By QBlog in Reader Mail
This week's Reader Mail brings up an interesting question, and it's not the question being asked by the reader. The question is for Quixtar and its wonderful IBOs — why is the reader asking ME about refunds and not you? I think I know the answer and you can read it after Brian's email.
name: Brian
date: May 14, 2005
message: Thank you for setting up this page. I wish I had looked into this about a week ago, BEFORE, I became an IBO. The whole thing is definately a sham. I'm just curious if there is any way to get some money back. The refund policy seems to be really shady. I dropped about $150 for everything, and I realized I'll probably have to eat it, but anything I can get back would be great. Thank you for any info
Ok, here's what I think is the most likely answer to the question I posed above — Brian feels deceived and doesn't trust that Quixtar or the wonderful IBOs will give him an honest answer. And if I'm right about Brian, then it's a sad, sad commentary about Quixtar.
Comments
Can't brian get refund directly from Quixtar? He should be able to do it online, without seeing his sponsor. This is for, of course non-AMO related stuff like BWW, WWDB starter kit etc.
I paid $250 while signing up and I was told that $125 were for quixtar and $125 for bww. My credit card statement showed that the charges were paid to "quixtar only". It took me two months to realise that this was not for me so I decided to disenroll and told my sponcer. After I sent my disenrolment letter to quixtar, I was refunded $60.xx only. Upon contacting, quixtar told me that they never charge $250. I contacted my sponcer and reminded him that he told me that $250 are refundable in 'complete' if disenrolment is within 6 months after the joining date. I also asked him about $125 payment to bww and he told me that quixtar takes care of it. He assured me to look into the metter and a week later gave the remaining money by cheque, his cheque, not from quixtar and added that quixtar will refund that amount to him. I hope my story will make it clear that you are cheated right from the begining and IBO's are professional liars.
Heh, when I was prospected by some Quixtar/BWW IBOs, I was told that I'd need to pay $450 (!) to sign up. I'd gone on the Quixtar website the day before and saw that the actual sign up fee is in the neighborhood of $50. That's when I got up and left.
The point is that Brian doesn't believe he'll get a straight answer from his sponsor, his upline or from the corporation regarding a refund. The truth is he probably would get a good answer and a refund, be he doesn't know that. So he posts the question in an email to an unaffilliated third party.
You would think that with all the years of Amway having to endure the bad press caused by their so-called independent distributors that the corporation would crack down on it. But (for reasons we now know) they don't, and the mistrust persists.
It's no wonder Brian turned to QBlog.
PW
If you are good at "spinning" things and giving mixed messages; you have the opportunity to GO DIAMOND!!!
-Ain't it Great!!!
My question is,
"Why didn't brian research quixtar properly BEFORE he joined?". Type quixtar into google and you'll definetly come across this site beforehand.
If he would have talked to someone at quixtar directly- he would have found out its only $50 per year to join. Anything else is obligatory as covered in the BSMAA. Remember, Brian could technically sign up as an IBO directly from the website now, so he wouldn't have any "tools' upline. As far as the "tools" refund is concerned, Brian should go back to his sponsor at BWW and ask for a refund and if his sponsor can't, Brian should then be reporting to Quixtar- not Qblog. Quixtar does list his LOS in the back office and he should be contacting them first.
What if Brian thinks Quixtar is out to scam him? Would you go to the corporation if you thought they weren't going to listen? Worse yet, what if they simply told him it was not possible for him to get a refund on anything but the $50 that was supposed to go to Quixtar?
I agree with you, though. In this day and age, it is not wise to join a business opportunity without seeing what people have to say about it on the web. But you also have to understand that many LOSs dissuade their new recriuits from believing anything that is said here, anyway. After all, who would listen to a bunch of whiners and losers on the bathroom walls of society who don't understand the program anyway?
PW
It's like my upline diamond once told me when I went to him because I was expereicing some problems with the way he was handling my group's tool money : "There is many different way to define ethics"
I highly reccommend that you all read Merchants of Deception.
They should put that one on the book list.
I sincerely hope this edition of Monday Reader Mail comments does not go off in a 180+ postings of every topic other than Brian's problem.
Brian, if you are reading...heres what you do.
Business Support
616-787-7828
Mon-Fri: 8:30 a.m.-7 p.m. ET
Order Support
Ordering, Registrations, & Renewals
800-253-6500
Mon-Fri: 7 a.m.-midnight ET
Sat: 8:30 a.m.-5 p.m. ET
Defective, Damaged, Not as Ordered, Ship Status
800-950-7732
Mon-Fri: 8:30 a.m.-6 p.m. ET
Sat: 8:30 a.m.-5 p.m. ET
Customer Service, Returns, Address Changes, DittoTM Profile Changes
616-682-8000
Mon-Fri: 8:30 a.m.-6 p.m. ET
Sat: 8:30 a.m.-5 p.m. ET
Call the first number, explain your situation.
You should get a refund of all products in your possession and Quixtar will see to it that your upline refunds any money on new or used motivational materials.
Granted, the contract you signed with BWW won't get you a full refund on opened tapes and books but you should get a degree of satisfaction.
Tell Quixtar your ENTIRE situation. Cite your documentation, invoices, checks, cc receipts.
And don't make the call with a "battle attitude". Be Polite; You get more flies when you use honey.
You should have satisfaction within a week's period, would be my guess, in my experience.
And Qblog...if you want to help Brian and feel he might not read this, feel free to email him this info.
Dave
That's horse crap. Quixtar goes out of there way to make it as difficult as possible to get your money back.
If I got a dollar for every time I had someone in my group call me because they phoned Quixtar and got the run around I would be a millionare.
The tool by back is crap. Try phoning your upline Diamond and asking for a refund on your unopened S/O Cd's. It would be easier to pop a pimple on your butt then to expect them to live up to there legal opligations.
You better bend over. Because you are going to have to take this one.
- Got cult
Keep listening to those CD's Dave. They are working.....
MLM King,
Even most critics will agree, product returns are easy via Quixtar.
As far as CDs go, I'm listening to Carole King's Tapestry at the moment.
David Robison> Even most critics will agree, product returns are easy via Quixtar.
Imran> Agreed. Personally, I never had a problem. I still use some products, and return half of them ;)
MLM King> The tool buy back is crap.
Imran> I agree. Personal experience. Have a lot of tapes and books still around. Unable to return. Returning effort => effort to sucker in a seminar.
Will Quixtar give me a refund on my attorney and legal fees for the divorce and custody battle?
Just kidding.
I wonder if the judge says anything indicating Quixtar is partly at fault, if I could sue?
Nah, I'm just ready to get this Quixtar nightmare behind me.
Imran, did you really try to return your tapes and CD's or did you feel somewhat embarrassed for having to even ask for a refund?
I did the same damn thing in Melaluca being on autoship. I bout expensive products I've never used and worthless product tapes piled up in my closet. They sat around in my closet for 5 years until I decided it was too late to ask for a refund. I called them anyways and talked politely and the still sent me a refund check for at least 90% of my supply. It never hurts to at least ask for a refund. If thats not satisfactory, go to quixtar as a mediator.
I wonder if there are any negative blogs out there about Melaluca that I can post my story on?
>> I wonder if there are any negative blogs out there about Melaluca that I can post my story on?
Don't you have your own blog? Post your story there. That's what blogs are for. Or start your own Melaluca blog. Good grief.
Michael> Imran, did you really try to return your tapes and CD's or did you feel somewhat embarrassed for having to even ask for a refund?
Imran> I asked as clearly as I could. I was told that it was late. I should have done it in first 180 days. Even that, that thing comes up when my blog was ... 'discovered' and I get an angry call.
http://tinyurl.com/9etnd
Before that, it was uplines chasing me "Why did you quit, u were so close, please don't quit, before making a quit decision, just go to this seminar and meet me the next day and THEN decide to quit. Whole guilt trip.
I have given all my tools to my sponsor. They said we'll try to return it, we can't return to BWW as you are late, but we'll see.
Never received a dime yet.
Riddle me this: I am in the business for say 5 years. I can return tool for only 6 months. I have to suck up the price of 4.5 years? As when I'm in the business, there is no question of returning tape.
This look good on paper thing is boring. Even my upline lost a lot of tapes in my downline. Majority of my tapes are lost in downline and prospects, with the lit packs. Non system cost is gone either. Time is not gonna be compensated, seminar tickets, yeah, hard to return. Mediator, a joke basically.
To improve: It should be mp3 ;)
I challenge you to try and return your unused tools to your upline direct and see if they still love up on you as much as they when you first got in the buisness.
It is nothing more then a double standard.
Mike,
I love reading your posts. With all the tape and upline spew that you post just confirms that I made the right decision to walk away from our directship.
Mike, I suggest you take a litmus test. Work the business as hard as I did. Contact 3 people day Mon-Fri. Show the plan every night of the week, double booking your schedule to offset your no shows, leverage your time and have your downline ride around with you so that you are killing two birds with one stone.
Spin and lie for your upline. Work so hard so you never see your family, by all the tools, do 300pv every mth (never missing), attend everything, even the last minute nuts'n'bolts your upline calls at the local Tim Horton's at 10:00pm on a Sunday night after phone team.
Deal with your upline cutting tool cq's before you have a chance to make it to bank. Chase your downline to make up for all the bounced tool cq's. Watch your bank account drain due to all the NSF and charge back service charges.
Watch your wife's mental health start to go down as your upline lady plays mind games with her and try's to fix all the blame for tool money on her. Deal with your upline as you questions there use of your group's tool money and have them tell you that the only way your business will grow is if you trust them and go on faith.
Build your group to 240 people, lose someone close to you, take a break to sort it out. And watch as your upline goes in and turns your entire group against you. Telling the most hidous lies, questioning your character and spreading unbelieveable rumors to discredit you.
Invest 8 years of your life as CORE.
Then and only then would you ever have the right to give your opion on this thing.
Until then you are just an ambot, beating your chest in the front row of the function coming home on Monday and then doing nothing.
I have dozens of YOU go through my group through the years.
You don't fool me.
MLM King, who was your upline?
That certainly describes the activity level to needed to reach direct and more. Your upline's actions were inexcusable.
Who my upline has nothing to do with the issue at hand. The same abuses have been documented in all the major systems.
It is the cult tatics that are used to control people. I am not a doctor but if you read Steve Hassans website he does a great job of disecting the cult tatics in great detail.
I have seen 3 marriages torn apart because of the BWW system, I have seen 5 different emeralds have to go back and get jobs (both spouses). I have seen 2 different diamonds make advances on young girls in my group. And when I confronted my upline emerald about it, he told me it's okay and that they didn't reach the diamond by taking advantage of people.
For the new guy your immediate upline has is of very little importnace to him/her. It is the up up line is where the problems always stem from.
Miichael Moore should make a movie about Amway and the AMO's. Better yet they should put a panel of all the diamonds from different systems on Bill O'Riley's No Spin Zone show have him go to town on them.
Got Cult.
I was instructed to lie about Bill Britt's marriage to my people.
MLM King -- it sounds like you have enough material for your OWN blog.
I am very interested to hear more of your experiences. Even the current ambots seem ethralled....
I still question mlmking's motives. If you were a Gold with 240 people in your group, it doesn't matter What your upline tells them while you take a break - they're STILL in Your group!! You're still making 2-3K a month! Why you put in 8 years being core and hitting 7500+ and then quit cause your upline "said bad things about you", doesn't make sense to me!!
To answer the original question: Something doesn't add up. I signed up online and it was less than $130. (It could have been like $50, but I got the starter bundle with samples and the literature, etc. The BWW starter kit was about $95 bucks. We usually say its $150 for Quixtar registration and $100 for the BWW starter kit, for a total of around $250, but for me, it was less. The Quixtar registration IS refundable up to 6 months. Just call the corporation! The BWW startup kit may also be refundable, but i'm not positive. If you've opened the CD's etc. they may not refund it all.
Maybe the people in your upline are clueless, you need to deal with the corporation either way. The quixtar startup fee is refundable for 6 months. The BWW startup may not be 100% refundable. Much like some of my college books aren't. I've got like $500 worth of college books I couldn't sell back.
So why again did you drop out so quick?, cause you read something on the internet, you gotta be kidding me! Hey dude, where do you work or go to college - let me post some stuff about that and see if you quit too ;)
So, Tony questions everything BUT the actaully stories and facts that don't work in his favor.
Seems pretty unbiased to me...snicker, snicker....
MLMKing, keep telling your story. Tony has yet to experience the things of which you describe!
Welcome back from your rathole Tony moron... the place wasn't the same without your idiotic posts... ramble on!!!!
Tony, Tony, Tony... Your response shows your lack of experience. I feel like a College Professer talking to a highschool student.
I had a lot of guys like you go through my group as well. You are the the guy that goes to a seminar on a Saturday afternoon at 1:00pm even though it doesn't start till 7:00. Around 6:15pm you start fighting with all the other Ambots because you think that people will beat you in and steal your seat.
You go to the functions, ripping off your shirt beating your chest, yelling "GOING DIAMOND". As you and the 5 other people in Caviler travel home you contact everybody you can at the gas stations and rest stops along the way. You head out Monday morning to GO DIAMOND and by Wednesday you are sitting in the lazy boy wondering what went wrong.
Quite honestly guys like you made me sad. Being my upline emeralds little lackies. I tried to teach independent thought, group accountabilty, and prncipal based leadership. I taught that people should build the buuisness for the money not for the ego strooks. When we took our break our group was registering 15-20 pepole a week. We averaged 7800 PV /mth for those three mths.
Since my upline has had it (About 8 mths now). I looked at my LOS and it shows that my group has only had 15 new IBO's register in that time frame. One of my personals quit, and we now average 3100 pv a mth. My other personal was approach by my upline and told that his business would go quicker if he transfered over to him.
Out of ethical/ common sense reasons I wouldn't sighn the transfer. So now he will go inactive for 6 mths and then transfer then. In the mean time he puts his orders directly with my upline, they cut him a manual check based on his PV and any body he registers signs up under the upline and in 6 mths when he transfers they will transfer the group under him.
I used to do this with IBO's that were 17 and 6-8 mths away from turning 18.
So Tony, like I said to the other Ambots, you don't fool me.
But don't worry, just go and listening to Pigs'Don't Pigs Stink and you feel better.
I know because I was once there.
Got Cult?
Tony> So why again did you drop out so quick?, cause you read something on the internet, you gotta be kidding me! Hey dude, where do you work or go to college - let me post some stuff about that and see if you quit too ;)
Imran> Tony, you do understand that nobody walks away from income that he worked so hard just because of "internet"? People do need ot understand this. Having some thing one internet means NOTHING. Only If there is some merit to it, and person starts thinking, THEN something happens.
You are reading this site. Have you quit yet?
Guess what mlmking, that was a really good description of some people in the business, but not me. I usually show up when the doors open at a seminar/rally. I'm not the "beat your chest" type guy, so you got me wrong there. (So what type of personality would that be? Did you read that book?)
Also, how many legs did you have? You said 1 leg quit and your "other leg" is gonna go inactive and then join under your upline. So let me get this straight. Your upline had a Gold leg (You), but figured it would be better for him to talk trash about you, so he could screw himself and turn a 7800+pv leg into a 3100-pv leg. Yea, that makes sense.
So did you only have 2 active legs? You still didn't answer want happened to your group of 240. They were in Your group. So you're telling me ALL of those people decided to just go inactive, to transfer to your upline. That's BS, it doesn't make sense. Those people could still work with your upline no matter who they were personal to. I work with both my upline silver and Ruby! No ones try to blow the other out!
Maybe your upline really did do all that, something could have been avoided. It didn't help him any - he lost a Platinum leg toward Diamond and got a busted group of 3100pv.
So you're still active, as far as IBO#, your group is still at 3100pv? Why not operate independent of your @sshole upline and just build it! You also should have talked to the corporation.
Don't assume that my upline will make that same stupid move just cause you had on that did. Telling everyone here thats the way it works is almost as immoral as what you say happened to you!
In a group of 900,000 you're gonna find some bad eggs. Sorry your experience wasnt like mine. Stop trying to imply it will be. Lots of girls (& some guys) have been raped on campus by faculty members, it doesn't mean that ALL will be!
Imran - that statement wasn't directed towards mlmking, who DID work hard and put in effort, it was directed to the original poster Brian, who said he quit after a WEEK, cause he saw this site!! ONE WEEK Imran!! How much do you know about ANYTHING after a week!! Which probably meant 1 meeting!!
No, I haven't quit, cause I'm smart enough to know that anyone can post anything on here, there's no substantiation to it! I'm not short-term focused or narrow-minded. I didn't quit football the first time I had to run laps or quit TKD when I found out you had to brake a brick with your hand during your blackbelt test! Brian reads some BS from Joe Schmoe on the net and decides to quit!?! After 1 meeting! Whatever dude, saved your upline some time! And missed out on 1 hell of an opportunity. Unless of course your upline was that guy who sponsored mlmking - I'd stay away from him too. So why aren't you posting his name 'king?? If you were trying to help people that might be the way to go.
Tony,
Your posts prove your lack of experience.
The problem with the cult is that it is subjective. I don't totally expect you to have the understanding that I do because you have never hit the level I have or put in the type of work that I did.
Your posts are proof of that the training has worked on you. Minimize, deny, and deflect the "Negative". Your training teached you not see the story for what it is. A personal testimony. The system teaches you to think "That would never happen to me" and then to reject it.
You believe that these stories have no relevance to you. In fact you could hear hundreds of them from all the different systems and you would still believe it.
I challenege you Tony to really put your money where your mouth is. We all know that you have been trained to spin things very well. I am not interested in carrying this conversation any further until you prove to me that you have a real interest in it.
Read "Merchants of Deception". That will do two things. It will make up for your lack of experience in the business, because you will be able to piggy back off the authors and second it will force you to confront the isssues that you brush off as being of no value to you.
Then and only then will be qualified to give your opinon on this thing. To me, it's like I said before I feel like a college professer talking to a high schoool student.
Got Cult?
First there was the comparison of AQ tools to a college education. Then there was the remark about college books being non-refundable. (I bought used books at my college book store and then resold them after the class if I wanted to. The ones of value to me I kept.BTW, no professor ever forced me to buy text books, either!) Now we are comparing rapes on a college campus to the "few bad apples" that destroy the "integrity" of the quixtar corporation.
Methinks Tony REAL-L-L-Y didn't gain a lot from his college experience.
Where o'where could my little Tony be?
Tony,
Have fun losing money. It's not like any of us are going to be able to convince you otherwise, you are what is referred to as a lost cause.
The fact that you think the critics are all condemned to a life of poverty and unhappiness makes you even worse than a lost cause. It makes you a brain washed lost cause.
Honestly, do you see as many miserable people as your upline claims that there are? Or are all the non-Quixtar people putting on a show?
I'll fill you in on a little secret.....There is a show going on...........
It's your upline. They are not what they say they are.
I just want to be the first to say that "Got Cult?" has got to be the best thing since the proliferation of "ambot" here in the comments section.
Priceless, really...........
Yeah something's not making sense here MLM King. I am not saying you're making this up, but something seems skewed....
Why are you afraid to name the upline doing these bad things? What are you afraid of?! Let's have it out, call them for what they are, right out in the open. Let's expose them for who they are, if this is so tragic.
"...Quixtar goes out of there way to make it as difficult as possible to get your money back."
- wrong, NOBODY agrees with you.
"Build your group to 240 people, lose someone close to you, take a break to sort it out. And watch as your upline goes in and turns your entire group against you. Telling the most hidous lies, questioning your character and spreading unbelieveable rumors to discredit you."
- there is something WAAAAY missing from this story. There is A LOT we are not being told. Since I do not know who your upline is I can't comment on their ethics but I will say that even the bigger crooks in the business don't go ruin people OUT OF THE BLUE and for no reason. We're not getting the whole story here!
"Who my upline has nothing to do with the issue at hand. The same abuses have been documented in all the major systems."
- Who you upline is has EVERYTHING to do with it. And I want you to document these SIMILAR abuses in let's say, the Nelson organization or the Head organization, for example. You had better back up a statement like that if you are going claim that.
".....I suggest you take a litmus test. Work the business as hard as I did. Contact 3 people day Mon-Fri. Show the plan every night of the week,..etc, etc., etc., etc."
- if you worked that hard for 8 years and had only 2 legs to show for it??!!? Again, we're not being told something here. Most people easily go Platinum on less work than that!
"I was instructed to lie about Bill Britt's marriage to my people."
- oh yeah? what did you have to say? BTW does anyone know what he's doing now? Is he still seeing that woman?
"I have seen 2 different diamonds make advances on young girls in my group."
- huh? how old were the girls. 7? 12? 9? Did you report to the police?
"I feel like a College Professer talking to a highschool student."
- I take it not an English professor. Geeze.
Run spell check at least, will ya!?
".....And if I'm right about Brian, then it's a sad, sad commentary about Quixtar."
-and what do you have to say if you're wrong. Oh, let me guess....... NOTHING??
By the way, if Brian is THAT emotionally weak to even ASK for a refund he deserves to eat it.
And if you're that intellectually lacking to stay in this "buisiness" then you deserve to eat it too, Big M.
So go ahead and eat it, nobody's stopping you.
Not even common sense, evidently.
Hey Brian,
Learn to read. All you have to do is take the peal off return lable that came with your product. Put the product back in the box. Then send it back by the same method it was delivered. And Quixtar will refund your money. The direction are printed clearly and plainly on your product invioce.
Hey MandM
You are pretty good at spinning things. You talk a pretty good game but what level are you in the business. And don't tell me you are 4-6 mths away from retiring.
You can start a new guy out give him all the "Ammo" he would need (Severan, Ridley, Duncan, Britt etc.) and sent him loose.
What was your group pv last mth? I bet you don't answer that one.
It's like I said to Tony, Michael and all the others, unless you have the experience in the business you have no credability here.
Remember what my upline diamond told me "You can justify anything in the end" and my favorite "There are many different ways to define ethics."
Got Cult?
emminemm> "but I will say that even the bigger crooks in the business don't go ruin people OUT OF THE BLUE and for no reason"
vm> So there are valid reasons to try to ruin someone?
emminemm> "if you worked that hard for 8 years and had only 2 legs to show for it??!!? Again, we're not being told something here. Most people easily go Platinum on less work than that!"
vm> Your planning provide us with some documentation for that, right?
MLM king:
Got Spell Check?
MandM
You did answer my question from before....
What was your group PV last mth or are you just a one man band?
Got Cult?
mlm, I was about 1000pv. I've got 7 personal legs, 16 in the group, not everyone is plugged in and active. So what was Your PV? Don't assume to know my work ethic.
Also, explain this: My personal sponsor is now a Gold with over 9,000PV last month, making over $2500 a month. 6 months ago when HIS sponsor (Matt) went Silver, Matt got a new job which was second shift, and he really hasn't been around the past few months. My sponsor still refers to Matt as his sponsor, but we know that he's taking some time off.
No one is bashing this guy! My upline Ruby is not trying to get people to transfer to his group. Matt has other active legs too that are being mentored directly by our upline Ruby, but still on Matt's team. So could it be that not ALL upline are like yours. Do you see the problem with your generalization!! If you don't, you're one of the most ignorant people on here.
I really have no interest in reading Scheibling's biased rants. Once I got my blackbelt, I started to see the "politics" involved with TKD. I'm sure there are politics in upper levels of ALL organizations.
I can imagine that there are people who feel they don't get the best speaking slots, or get to cut enough CD's, or travel to the best speaking engagements.
Scheibling was a Founders Emerald, and says thats when he found out about the "abusive" tool money!! Thats BS!! At Platinum you start seeing $$ from tools. He was well aware of tool money! Its my guess that Scheibling was quite fine with the tool money from the time he went
Platnum to the time he held Emerald for 12 months!!
But at that time he probably had some conflicts with other higher pins who were getting to cut more CDs than him. Or getting the better speaking engagements, etc. So when he didn't get his way, he split off and started his own marketing business which he admits competes with Quixtar and then bashes them in a "tell all" book!
When I hit 1000pv my check was over $200. My sponsor is a Gold making over $2500. I've seen Quixtar checks from my upine Diamond (no BWW tool money) for over $120,000 in 1 month! (not November) - so don't tell me this doesn't work! The truth of the matter is - it didn't work for you! Now 'king - it Was working for you! Why your sponsor shot you and himself in the foot, I have no idea, but I know I wouldn't have just walked away.
I'd really like to hear your response to the fact that no one is bashing my sponsor's sponsor who is taking time off. Why is that? Could some LOS' actually be ethical, caring and genuinley good people?? To imply that ALL teams are greedy and deceitful cause yours was, is pure ignorance!
Tony,
At our last month of GOLD. WE were 12 wide paying out 6 PV cq's With three organizations hovvering around 3000pv each. Running 50 S/O a week. Averaging 80-120 people to a function.
The most we made at that level was $1900 per month. When you I use Scott Larson' s per hour calculator. With all the factor s worked based on the amount of time and miles I put in came out to be -$42.50 per hour for eight years of effort.
I love you Tony.
Got Cult?
Tony > I started to see the "politics" involved with TKD
Mark > Can you provide some link or circumstance behind this statement, our son is starting to show interest in the art's and we would like to know ahead what to keep an eye our for so that someone doesn't take advantage of him or us...
Thanks,
So you quit before the payoff. You had 3 legs over 2500. Maybe 1-2 years from Emerald. You basically ran 20 miles of a marathon and then stopped to sit on the sidewalk cause the guy in front of you spit some water on you!
Well let's use that calculator for my brother's college. He went to college for 7 years and now has the title "Doctor". Average of $12,000 a year = $84,000. 15 credit hours for 7 years = 105 hrs, lets's double that for studying, etc. = 210... $84,000 / 210 hours = $-400 an hour, after 7 years!!
But guess what! He knew for his hard work, there would be a payoff!! So he didn't quit right when the light started to shine at the end of the tunnel.
You had Emerald identified! Yea, maybe yours monthly costs were still more than $1900, but i don't know how! Standing order including Leadership is no more than $70 a month! Extra tools maybe another $100 a month? Seminars, opens, etc. another $130?? How were you blowing the other $1600 each month. How many miles a month does that equal?? Were your 3 big legs in Cali, Canada, and China??
Even if you were spending $1900 a month to build it, you weren't far off from Emerald with 3 legs at 3000!! I'm sorry your upline tried to screw you, but he ended up screwing himself. Which is what happens when you screw downline.
But don't try to imply that just cuz your upline did it, that mine will! You simply can't say that. I showed you how i've personally seen the contrary!!
Your as bad as Scheiblng, your pissed off and taking it out on all of us.
My STO (weekly CD) is like $40 a month. I might buy an extra $35 in tools a month. Monthly seminar/rally is $10max. Quarterly functions plus hotel is about $45 a month. Thats like $130 a month! Lets say you spend $100 a month on gas for driving miles. 'Kate is $31/month, IBO site is $15. How were you blowing over $1900 every month??
Mark, the politics involved in TKD have nothing to do with anyone taking advantage of students. When I refer to "politics" in any group it refers to bickering in the higher ranks. Like "I'm a higher rank, I should get to oversee this tournament." Or "Master Smith always seems to let John lead Advanced class". Crap like that. Nothing to do with students being taken advantage of. Just people in higher ranks not getting along and letting egos get in the way.
Which I'm sure is the case with Scheibling. He was a founders Emerald and probably wanted to cut more CDs, wanted more or better speaking slots, etc. In any group, once you get to the upper ranks, you'll see some level of politics involved. He knew d@mn well about tool money before Founders Emerald!
Tony: You refuse to read MOD, yet keep spouting shit about 'Schibling'. All your questions are answered there. And it's free. In amquix.info it is html format.
And he does have extensive documentation. Dateline would not have taken any one without good proof. (PW can explain better).
You refuse to read all that, how can you deny it if you don't even read it?
Tony> that statement wasn't directed towards mlmking, who DID work hard and put in effort, it was directed to the original poster Brian, who said he quit after a WEEK, cause he saw this site!! ONE WEEK Imran!! How much do you know about ANYTHING after a week!! Which probably meant 1 meeting!!
Imran> My point wasn't that. Just by seeing this site I really don't think any one would quit They are either:
- Not interested from the begining
- Have doubts
- This site provide proof to some of their doubts and concerns.
I think it is good to quit in the begining than later wasting yours, sponsors and upline's time? I mean get in late, do research than get in, rather than get in, find something and then quit?
Tony> No, I haven't quit, cause I'm smart enough to know that anyone can post anything on here, there's no substantiation to it! I'm not short-term focused or narrow-minded.
Imran> U da man! always look for substantiation no matter what.
Where do you prospect Tony, by the way?
Tony,
I just want to start out by saying that I love you. Here are some of the classic things that we did for fun in our group. Do these, Tony they will help your business grow.
1) Real men chew there double X
2) Gather all the numbers at phone team from people that treated you really bad on the phone. Then when you get a guy that comes in your group that doesn't know he has a pair of balls, give him those numbers to call. Tell him that they are really hot prospects and that he will get some good practice by calling them.
3) Take your guys into a public place and practice dropping the "A-Bomb". People love hearing the word AMWAY. You can really work people with this. I guarantee if nothing else you will piss your self laughing from the reactions that you get from people.
4) At the open meeting take the guy in your group that you don't like and dump him off on the guy crossline that talks to much. Introduce the guy that talks to much as the next big pin in the business and that your guy should listen to everything that guy has to say. Classiv
5) By cheap tools off E-bay from other systems. When you get a guy that comes out to the open that is a bit of a loose noodle give him 60 tapes and tell him if he really wants to make it big he has to listen to all of the tapes. It only cost you $5.00 on ebay and saved yourself from loosing 40 bucks on a lit pack. It's good for a laugh seeing this guy walk out of the hotel with 60 tapes. Classoc.
6) If you have a prospect that has no showed you several times, call him back and get him cranked about coming out to see a diamond open. Then book him at a hotel that is far away or down town on the wrong day. He will either drive all that way or pay big $$ for parking. This one I love.
Tony these have been tried, tested and proven. They work bar none. Period.
I love you Tony.
Got Cult?
Merchants of Deception is a negative book, therefore anything Scheibeler says isn't worth reading, right, Tony? Maybe Scheibeler is full of it, or maybe his is spot on. But how can you ever know without reading his book?
Tony is pretty funny.
Talks about politics in TKD, but then downplays the significance of that when taken to task, ie. the students weren't the victims. So what the hell was your point?
You & M&M should go prospecting together.
It's SCHEIBLER, you fool. You keep talking about something which you OBVIOUSLY know NOTHING about, since you didn't even know his name.
Get real.
I love you too 'king.
Got A Point?
that Was kinda funny though ;) I had to laugh at a few of them. Still sorry to hear what your upline did to ya. Unless you're really Scheibling ;)
Imran> My point wasn't that. Just by seeing this site I really don't think any one would quit They are either:
- Not interested from the begining
- Have doubts
- This site provide proof to some of their doubts and concerns.
*So, this site would or wouldn't make someone quit?? Which is it Imran?
The truth is you don't know jack after being in 1 week! And basing a decision solely on what you read here (good or bad) is pretty ignorant!
I'm working my b-list right now, so I don't really contact a whole lot. I did go to malls at first but thats played out. When I am prospecting again, it may be at places I would go anyways. Not out of my way. Its like they say, "just live your life" and "ABC, always be contacting".
I got one of my sharpest guys at a grillout. He had already read many success-books, owned his own "traditional" business. He reseached Network Marketing and decided he wanted to give it a try.
rocket, like I could really give a sh!t how you spell Scheiblman's name! As far as I'm concerned Scheiblmeyer is a POS who's just bitter at some other big pins. People like Scheiblinger should not even be taken seriously! ;)
Also, moron, my point was clear to anyone halfway intelligent: once you hit higher levels with Any group, you may get caught up in politics! I believe Scheibler was mad he didn't get to cut more CDs, or wanted more speaking slots, etc!! It had nothing to do with tool $$ except that he wanted more!
Politics in TKD, such as who gets to run what, has nothing to do with taking advantage of students!! What the h#ll was YOUR point!?!
Sorry, need to read more people skill books ;)
Tony> *So, this site would or wouldn't make someone quit?? Which is it Imran?
Imran> None! unless that site points to some facts. ppl are not 'pathetic' to based their decesion reading some shit on the bathroom walls. It's the 'fact' that is pathatic, pointed by the site.
So one week is less time? This is after the person has signed up BSMAA etc. how much time do you recommend for person to research? You apparently are more inclined to "inner" research, i.e. do this business and see how it's like instead of decide before starting.
You prospect in malls? Hmm, Barnes and Noble? McDonalds? Looks like you are doing your business in some one else's property ;)
Hey Tony,
A good place to prospect is on a tech. college campus. You can meet 20 people in a half/hour if you position it right.
Just don't spank it do hard or you will go blind.
Got Cult?
Tony > "I've seen Quixtar checks from my upline Diamond"
VM > What good does seeing checks do? A P & L statement would be more appropriate.
So Tonybot prospected in malls. What a great place to find bona-fide, quality, business "partners".
Tony, you are a clown. Plain and simple. You make me laugh.
Got Cult? (Gosh, that's great!)
Read Scheibler's book, Tony. His rant is not about not getting more tool money at all. But I guess that is what your upline told you about Scheibler and instead of checking facts yourself (which is very easy to do; download and read the book for free), you take your upline's word without verification. Again, what Scheibler wrote could be 100% truth or it could be full of it, but to comment on it without reading it is childish. And to dismiss it while refusing to read it is even worse. Again, maybe there is pertinant information for you in the book, Tony, but you will never know if you never take the time to do the research.
"A P & L" - Asset, property and Liability statement? So explain Why that would be more appropriate. If I see a check from a Diamond (not EDC) for $120,000+ (for 1 month, no BWW$), that tells me that theres money in this! If he buys a $2mil house and puts down almost half - that tells me that there's money in this. When I see pictures and videos of trips, when I get to see their cars, when I get to wear the $20,000 Brightling watch, I know that this works! Outside of tool money! I can get by on $120,000 a month! Or even just $50,000 a month - despite what some APL statement says. His would probably show a bunch of A & P (paid off) with very little L.
Imran, is That what you were waiting for?? LOL! I've seen you ask that before, you been waiting to shoot your nut for that question! Oh, my goodness, I do business on someone else's property! You and p'sad should pull me from my car and beat me in the street!! ;)
What is your point?! Like if you own a lawncare company and while pumping gas, you and someone start talking about your lawncare biz and he says he's looking for a landscaper, you're telling me you're gonna say, "well this is some other business' property, so follow me down the street and I'll give you my business card around the corner"?? Get a grip dude! :P
Tony,
I love you man. Have you seen "The Hall of Shame" on Larson's site. It's good stuff.
I highly reccommend it. Remember to always WORK your prospects, be relentless, don't take no for answer. Remeber what Larry Winters said "You can't blow people out of the business, you can blow them in".
Tony you need to start dropping the "A-bomb". It releaves stress and makes people laugh. Go up to your upline emerald at the open meeting and ask him to pull your finger. It works every time.
Got Cult?
You wanna know how many Platinums were found in malls, grocery stores etc? You're a clown! Like i said, I don't go to malls anymore, all new IBOs did that at some point and alot still do. Thats why I don't so much now.
Also, no one in my upline has EVER even mentioned Scheiblers name I first heard his name on the Dateline "report". And while I haven't read his book, I've read his website and know what his "gripe" is.
dmm>Read Scheibler's book, Tony. His rant is not about not getting more tool money at all.
no offense dmm, but you're a moron! Of course his rants in the book aren't about getting more tool money! My point is: thats why he wrote it - not what he wrote about!!
My upline didn't tell me ANY of this. This is what I came up with on my own. I saw the politics in TKD, and came to the realization that there are probably politics in Quixtar. Here's Eric saying he quit at Founders Emerald because he discovered the abusive tool system, which is BS - he would have known about tool money at Platinum!! He's lying!! To make Quixtar & BWW look bad. Why? Because he's in competition with them right now!! HELLO!!
My upline didn't tell me that, Dateline did!! Eric did!! My upline has never even mentioned Eric Scheiblers name to me! I know about him from Dateline and the Net!
I have no doubt that anyone who quits at Founders Emerald or above does so because of personality conflicts, NOT business merits!! He knew about tool money. He quit because of politics, egos, and personality conflicts!
I wasn't there, so its just a guess, but I think (not my upline, but I) think that he wanted a bigger cut of his tool money.
He was upset that other Emeralds were getting to cut more CDs than him. Newer people were getting more speaking engagements than him, just because they were funnier or better looking etc. No one quits at Founders Emerald cause they just discover tool money! I heard him on Dateline and didn't believe him then!! He thought he could bully them around, he figured he'd quit, start his own marketing company and compete with Quixtar.
And with his success as a Founders Emerald, obviously his testimony would carry some weight! Which it did, to those outside the business! To those ignorant of the facts enough to buy his lies!! People IN the business knew better.
He said he went Emerald and quit his job! But then said he was making less than $30,000 at Emerald!! (thats from his site!) Something there is false!! Who quits their Fulltime job when they're making less than $30,000 from their side biz?? Come on! Either he made more that he's letting on, or he never quit. Something doesn't add up.
I don't care if my upline tells me I'm a new EDC, if my checks are only $2200 a month - I ain't quiting my F/T job!!
But Hey, buy whatever you want. I think he's full of sh#t cause he thinks he deserved more, and now he started a competing company, and is talking smack about his former company. Gee, no ones ever done that before!
Tony,
I love you man. You were getting pretty worked up there.
You need to ask your upline emarld to pull your finger. It works everytime.
It's either that or punishing the pope. I prefer the latter.
Let me know what you think.
Got Cult?
Tony,
I love you man.
Okay if you want your business to grow, which I know you want to this is what you need to do.
Tony, what is the one question that people hate to hear when you are contacting, yes Tony that's right it's "What is this all about?'
Okay Tony, are you ready. The next time someone asks you that tell them you are in show business and that you are director of low budget films (Porno). You are recruiting for people for your next up and coming big picture. Make sure your have your camera ready because the reaction that you get will be priceless. I have used that one a hundred times. Classic.
Tony you are now my hero.
Remember to ask your upline emerald to pull your finger not your...
Got Cult?
'king, you make me chuckle everytime :)
What do I think? Honestly, I think you snorted too much SA8 back in the day, and the effects are catching up to ya.
I still love you too Eric, I mean 'king. ;) And I still think that it was shitty of your upline to treat you like that. But I hope you can forgive us and we can still build sand castles on Peter Island together ;)
Maybe some of your new slogans could be:
Got Bitter?
Or Got Lazy? (not directed to you 'king, you actually worked it!)
Or Got Screwed? (that you did)
or Got A Point? (applies to most of you)
or Got Jobs? (hehe)
Got Linear Income?
Got Ambition? (doubtful)
Got blog? (now that would look good on a shirt)
Got discouraged after a few months, so I quit and now sit on blogs bashing what I've seen work for others, but for some reason didn't for me? (that would have to go on the Back of the shirt ;)
Tony,
Love the never-ending college comparison.
It just doesn't hold water, but if you want to keep it up, go ahead. It weakens your arguement and shows your disdain for the whole idea that people sometimes learn things just to make them a more knowledgeable and critically thinking person.
Read MOD. See what has happened to someone who was completely dedicated to AQ. I wish my inlaws would read it. I fear what will happen to them if they start to make it big and their consciences get the best of them.
Many people write here are not bitter, but just want to help those people who have lost a lot of their ability to think for themselves.
I think you are getting Eric Scheibler and Bo Short mixed up. Schleiber was the former emerald that wrote "Merchants of Deception." Short was the former diamond that quit and started up a competing company called Passport. Two totally seperate people, and to think they are one and the same shows your lack of information on the topic, Tony.
And no, Scheibler didn't discover the tool profits when he reached emerald, but he eventually uncovered the depth of the deception at emerald. Again, it's all in the book for you to read, for free. I could go on and on arguing that you have completely missed the point of the book, but it's not like you have even read the Cliff's Notes. You have never read it, and don't understand Scheibler's experience as written in the book. It's not more tool money Scheibler was after, and that is not why he wrote the book. But prove me wrong, Tony, and read the book for yourself. Or are you afraid of the negative?
I'd recommend the Merchants of Deception to anyone who is involved with Quixtar. If nothing else it's a very entertaining read. I don't think it matters whether you believe Eric is the good guy or the bad guy.
It's the fact that you have access to information which is normally kept only for the higher pins, which makes the book so interesting. The tales about what happens at the 'high-pin only' meetings is certainly an eye-opener!
Tony, what happens if a prospect or downline of yours mentions this book? Surely you would have a better counter-argument to their concerns if you've read it yourself? Is forewarned not forearmed?
Well, someone tell me where I can read it in html, (which someone mentioned somewhere), and i'll read it, but I'm not submitting my name and email to Eric's site, to be "sent a link" - just post the frickin link. Maybe I was confused, was I supposed to click "download here" or "Lets Get the Word Out" - you know that page that asks for your money?? "Quixtar is bad and we need your money to stop it ;)" lol!
Thats almost as bad as the sites that bash it, but then offer a "better" biz opportunity!
dmm, still missing my point. How do you Know he wasn't after more tool $$? What better way to get back at the other big pins that didn't give you "your fair share" than to write a "tell all" book, where you fabricate lies. Are you saying thats impossible, that there's no way that whats going on? Come on! Went Emerald & quit his job but was only making less than 30,000/year! Gimme a break!
Post a link - I'll read the book, doesn't mean I'm gonna believe someone over my friends in the biz.
Tony- The html version of Merchants of Deception can be found at www.amquix.info. Scroll down to the "Documentation" section on that page and you'll find it. I think it's the second link in that section.
TD
Tony > "A P & L" - Asset, property and Liability statement? So explain Why that would be more appropriate.....despite what some APL statement says. His would probably show a bunch of A & P (paid off) with very little L.
Hahahahahahahah!
You are honestly the biggest idiot when it comes to business. Are you sure you went to college?
A PROFIT & LOSS statement!!!!
I'm surprised nobody caught that.
Eric Scheibeler is a SAINT!
This man contacted me and offered to testify in my case.
He flew six hours one way and six back, and testified.
Though I begged him to allow me to pay him for his time, he absolutely refused.
I paid for his flight, hotel, food, and rental car....that's it, just his expenses.
He was one of the kindest men I've ever met. I was worried he would seem put out, but he was the opposite. My family enjoyed speaking with him and he was truely humble and extremely helpful. He had no alterior motives.
I would do anything to repay my debt to him.
Read his book, and you'll see why he got out. It's not even close to Tony's ignorant accusations.
Tony!
You'll be a great diamond! You base opinions on absolutely 0 reasearch, you just repeat what you've been told.
I'm not too clever, but even I knew where I could download S-c-h-e-i-b-l-e-r-'s book. How the hell can you comment on something that you know ZERO about? Oh, I see. Your upline told you. Bravo.
Again with the TKD politics. Moot Point!! People don't "sponsor" people into TKD with the intent of making a profit off their efforts.
Your blathering reminds me of Willy Wonka, except he actually served a purpose.
Go Diamond!
Yes Tony, you got it. Me and Parsad will double team on you :D I can predict the result: You are TKD but you'll still bring your upline. Parsad and MO will come alone. Before the fight we'll say, "we'll become your next Diamond" and we'll be carried on shoulders :D
I'm glad you have a good sense of humor.
Sponsoring in some one else's business: Reason is that majority of the public is quite annoyed by MLM ppl prospecting them. Some ppl quit going Barnes and Noble, some complain. I know that in some Wal-mart, because of the complaint, they kicked prospecting IBO out.
Now listen carefully: Some blog about it. And you got more blogs to hate :)
This is my biggest problem with MLM: majority hates to be prospected. Specially secret meeting. Are MLMers doing it wrong? If they are then why no one corrects them? If they are not then it's annoying as hell! Blogs are just one reaction of it.
Any idea how to prospected only those ppl who are looking?
PS: I didn’t hear some other non-MLM business bugging people so much in other property.
Poor Tony.
All pumped up and no one to thrash.
But I'm sure glad that you're not like Kosege, or your wife would be in for it :-)
"A" P&L. "A" profit and loss statement. Ain't no buck diamond making no 120K/mo. without tools, for sure. That is a nice income, though.
Tony, I'd kick your ass, but I've not been trained to do it - kind of like putting down a book that YOU'VE NEVER EVEN FRICKIN' READ!
If you get my drift
Got crap?
On a BWW discussion group to which I illicitly belong, they were recently discussing "Merchants". Several members had uplines which encouraged them to read it. Why? Because the book showed that when Eric was following his upline's advice, everything was going well with him. It was only when he started letting doubts and stinkin' thinkin' seep in that his business faltered.
The message that blind loyalty was good, independent thougt was bad was said on this board without sarcasm. It drove home to me yet again how financial motivation was more valued in this particular LOS than personal achievement, free-thinking or following your own code of ethics. Who cares how you go there, as long as you stay there?
Definitely not the business model for everyone...
Yes, by P&L I was referring to a Profit and Loss statement. I'm sorry I wasn't clear on that.
Let's say I am looking into buying a retail store from the current owner. He proudly shows me a $1000 check from a customer for a sale he just rang up. That tells me absolutely nothing about the profitability of his business. In fact, it doesn't even provide any evidence that he made money on that particular sale.
No, you better believe that if I am looking into a business opportunity I will be looking for a profit and loss statement.
vm
Tony,
I love you man. You are right, Tony I have smoked the SA8, haven't snorted it though.
Have you ever tried prospecting in a gay bar, Tony? I am sure a cute little guy like you would be able to pick up lots of potential prospects.
I have never tried it Ton, but let me know how it all works out?
I love you Tony!
Got Cult?
MLM King> I love you Tony!
Imran> And you are asking Tony to go to Gay Bar :D
Imran>Sponsoring in some one else's business: Reason is that majority of the public is quite annoyed by MLM ppl prospecting them.
X> I agree. I realized this truth one day after spending a few hours engaged in ministry. After everyone left, a guy at the chruch (he recently moved to the area) was talking to me. I shared a little snipit of my dream (Yes, despite what your upline tells you, I have a MUCH BIGGER DREAM NOW THAN I EVER DID IN Q). The guy said "I have a business opportunty to show you". It really bothered me and I reflected on that and realized he was doing EXACTLY what I spent several years doing. I never realized how many people are absolutely turned off by that. They are cordial with you, however, but YOU, YES YOU are being the annoying one.
Janet, can you clarify your point? I don't want to read your post in a different light than you posted. Are you suggesting that people should blindly follow their upline? Are you suggesting that if the money is made, then how it was made is correct, but some people just may not like this particular model?
Thanks,
X
"You wanna know how many Platinums were found in malls, grocery stores etc? "
Yeah I wanna know. Tell me.
My guess is that the number is a very small percent of the overall ambot population.
How can you qualify someone as being a legitimate business partner by what they are wearing, what book they are reading, or what type of pretzel they are buying????
You are a clown Tonybot. And learn to spell the name of the watch you someday hope to buy.
I'll stick with my $2500 Rolex for now. It is easy to spell.
Oh, and good luck with your prospecting at the gaybar. A little flower like yourself should do real well there!!!
Tony prospecting at GAY bars.. That would be a hoot :-). I can imagine Tony in the bar as in the movie 'Police Academy', dancing with his partners :-)).
Goodluck with that Tony!!
'king, I took your advise and went to the "Blue Oyster" last night. I prospected a nice looking couple, but I'm not sure which one was the man, but I guess I'll find out when they register. I noticed a fat guy in a red dress and blonde wig checking me out, that wasn't you, was it? You should've introduced yourself. Next time! ;)
JD, maybe why nobody else pointed out the AP&L misinterpretation was because nobody else knew either! Sory i aint so as smart as you! ;) ha!
vm, your example about the check for an individual sale from the store owner is a bad analogy. The check I saw from my upline Diamond was not from a customer buying some XS, it was from QUIXTAR for his monthly bonus. It was profit! What are his expenses? A $15 IBO website? A renewal fee of $60/year? Maybe some CDs and lit packs he gives to prospects?
If I was buying a store, yes, a $1000 check from the sale of a product wouldn't be reason enough to buy the store. I'd want to know what the product cost him, and how much his rent is, etc.
But I already Know the cost of the business, I paid the $60 to renew same as my Diamond did. I have the same IBO site, attend the same functions and listen to the same CDs. So when I see a check for $120,000 plus for 1 month - I know that he MADE money. He didn't have expenses of more than $120,000 for 1 month!? Unless you want to count the Lexus he paid Cash for, or the $2 million house he just bought! Compare apples to apples! I understand your "store owner" analogy, but it was apples to oranges.
Keith, you are simply wrong! The check was for December and it was for over $124,000!! From QUIXTAR, not BWW - no tool money!! Now not every month is that big, he said most are for $50,000. Get over the tool $ thing - Diamonds and EDCs make good money from Quixtar! $124,000 for 1 month is good money!
And once again, ALL of you, especially rocket- my upline has not told me to say Any of this - he doesn't even know I post here, let alone Tell me what to say! I'm not paid by Quixtar to post, these are MY opinions and thoughts. I plan to read Sheiblington's book ;) (rocket really fell for that one! Not to mention That dipsh!t spelled it wrong!:
rocket> "...S-c-h-e-i-b-l-e-r-'s book"
Moron it's: S-c-h-e-i-b-e-l-e-r-'s book! If you're gonna make fun of me for spelling it wrong, you better make Damn sure You spell it right! :P
Oh, and i'm sorry p'sad that you get annoyed if someone talks you about a way to make extra money. Most people are grateful for the opportunity. Many people in my Open were "C-list contacts" and now make good money with this!
Are we afraid to just talk to people now. If someone offers this and you're not interested, just say "no thanks!" How frickin hard is that? How put out are you to say that?? There's nothing wrong with just being friendly and talking to someone. People should do it more often. Isn't that what people like about small towns- "the people are just so friendly!" So I just say "hi" and if they respond, maybe we'll talk - and when they ask what I do, I tell 'em. And I'll usually ask what they do, and if they're looking. If not, no big deal. Get over it.
xanadustc;
I posted before breakfast, so I was probably unclear :) I was summarizing some posts from a different board, one that was affiliated with BWW, on the book "Merchants of Deception." The posters recommended the book to other IBOs because they saw it as a story that shows that following your upline's advice (even agianst your better judgement) leads to financial success, whereas when the main character starts questioning his upline and the morality of the system, his business fell apart. These posters saw the moral of the book as "keep following, never question and there will be financial rewards." I wasn't commenting on the Quixtar-model, but on their interpretation of the book by saying that blind loyalty isn't the approach to success for everyone.
Mainly, I meant to show that those posters (that saw it as a pro-Quixtar book) couldn't see the moral issues raised in the book, they just saw it in terms money=success, even if the way it was made in a way that turns your stomach. That attitude isn't limited to Quixtar, of course.
Hope I made myself clearer. 'Course, it's nearing lunchtime, so I might be foggy again :)
And you say I really fell for that!
Thanks for checking, at least. I figured I'd get a rise out of you.
Thanks for all the laughs Tony. I truly wish this for you:
Once you see what this "business" is, and once you are able to make peace with yourself over the money you've spent on useless motivation (which incidentally, the vast majority of diamonds would NEVER be able to sell outside of this business) you can come back here and share a laugh over how absolutely retarded you sound.
Thanks for the laughs, hope you aren't really as naive as you make yourself out to be.
The tool money is the money in this "business"
Your seminars, tapes, and books are nothing more than profit. If the motivation was to move products, because that's where the $$ is, your upline "leaders" would give it to you for nothing, since it would better their bottom line, no?
Duh.
How can someone view MOD as a -pro-quixtar book?!?!? To put such a spin on it really shows how AQ can twist the truth to make it fit their own needs!
Why don't they just say, "Drop off your brain at the door and we'll make you rich. If you don't completely follow what we say, well, just look at what happened to this guy!"
I think the AQ mascot should be a sheep.
Ha, let them read the book. I really doubt if any one will get fired up reading the book :D Majority might start thinking.
Tony,
I love you man.
Next time you group holds a seminar/rally. Ask your upline diamond how much did it cost to rent the room.
Then ask him if you can get a cut of the money for all the guests that you brought out.
Got Cult?
Janet,
That is what I thought you said, but wanted to clarify before telling you a few things about the original post:
1. At the root of this is the cult doctrine: 'the ends justifies the means', in brief summary, it does not matter what you do, if the ends are to your liking. This is a serious problem and paves the way for the small little crimes that are easily justifiable. How long will this go on?
2. As far as the loyalty to get the money, if you blindly follow people, you become just like a lemming! What if they break the law? What if they use the principles I mentioned previously (the end justifies the means)? I submit it is better to be righteous and poor than to be unrighteous and wealthy.
And if you think that your upline is "righteous and wealthy", I will kindly ask you to read the second chapter of the book of James; this is NOT TO SAY that all wealthy are unrighteous, but, if you made (or are still making) your money in MLM, you are doing it AT THE EXPENSE of the downline, taking THEIR money to build up YOUR assets. MLM is NOT BIBILICAL regardless of what your upline tells you. I realize that everyone here is not a Christian, but if you wish to debate this matter more, keep posting on it. I am well versed in biblical theology and in heresies. MLM is an easy kill.
I think it is a FINE THING when you whistleblow the corruption, particularly when it is affecting other people, in fact, this is one of the four biblical reasons for suffering in this world. If you are making money in a matter and discover unrighteous (not illegal, UNRIGHTEOUS) actions, you should flee! This, Tony, is what we are saying (to my interpretion).
xanadustc > "I submit it is better to be righteous and poor than to be unrighteous and wealthy."
vm > I wholeheartedly agree with this!
Tony,
Of course the retail store anology is appropriate, Amway is in the business of selling products is it not? If retailing is not a goal of your business then you are participating in an illegal pyramid.
The check from Quixtar is NOT profit. The profit would amount to the check from Quixtar minus expenses realized to get that check.
vm
"The check from Quixtar is NOT profit. The profit would amount to the check from Quixtar minus expenses realized to get that check."
Right on vm. The check presents 'revenue'.
Tonybot doesn't know the difference between revenue and profit. Again, he must have been skipping his classes in college.
Which is why he is a slave to the seminars now! What a jackhole.
xanadustc;
You're preaching to the choir! I agree with you completely. I didn't mean to write as if I was of the "follow thy upline, no matter what" ilk, I meant to show the concept as absurd, yet still believed by some people.
I was amazed that anyone could miss the point of MoD and see it as a cautionary tale not to follow your own conscience, but your upline instead.
Janet,
My apologies to you then. It sounded like you were embracing the system, but all in all, It is good info for those that need to hear it.
Sorry again.
X
MLM King you are a total fraud and a phoney. Talk about deception. I suspected this one from the beginning. Tony, did you notice how the story never quite made sense, and then it changed, along with the English this person uses? Never could answer ANY of my challenges to it.
You people have been outed at your own game. Fools.
Hey M&M,
I can tell you you are getting a little jealous. Don't worry I love you too.
Your new name should be "The Mouth of the South".
M&M you should try dropping the "A-Bomb" too. I reccommended it to the Ton.
Anyways, It is a good question to ask M&M, Just walk up to your upline emerald and ask him to pull your finger.
Got Cult?
Embot, do you know the difference between revenue and profit?
Maybe you can teach your associate Tony the difference between the two.
Better yet, make a tape and sell it for $5!
Another way to get to Merchants of Deception, Tony, is go to this site, http://www.merchantsofdeception.com/. Just click on the download link and you have the book for free, in .pdf form.
And how do I know Scheibler is telling the truth? The answer is I don't, but I have read his book. And when I add up what he has to say with my personal experience of Amway/Quixtar plus what I have heard and read elsewhere, it all adds up to me. I have also exchange a few words with Scheibler electronically, and I have found no reason not to think he is credible and believable. Doesn't mean he is, as I'm just stating my opinion.
Here is a repost of a message to Tony from an active thread pushed into the archives. I thought that it made some important points that Tony could think about, and possibly respond to
Although I have to say that he's not responded on point to my previous posts.
Hi Tony,
If you read carefully, I only used the word "scheme" in regards to the tools flow. If you haven't already noticed, I'm not rabidly contra-MLM like some here (and if they are, more power to 'em, I just don't agree).
If as you say, you don't know - then for God's sake, learn! This is going to be one of the critical factors regarding the long term viability of your business!
The other factor is the retail requirement. Most MLM lawyers will agree (and remember, they're MLM lawyers FOR MLM's) that the movement of a majority (underline majority) of a companies' products at retail, not downline, is the hallmark of a totally legitimate MLM. How do I know this? I employ one, and interviewed many for the contract.
You will of course argue that "Quixtar is so big, how could they be doing anything that wasn't totally legitimate?", or some similar tapespeak. The answer to that is simple:
Ever heard of Enron? Or Tyco? Or Global Crossing? Or hundreds of other corporations written up in the back pages of the business section? The wheels of justice grind slow, but fine. Legislation gets passed, champions fall from grace, or power. Even the mighty eventually bend, and fall.
Sometime, when you've got the time and inclination, go to the ftc.gov website and review the compliance letters section, see how many corporations you recognise. For even more fun, go to the fda.gov website and review their DAILY actions log.
You will find that NO corporation is above the govenment of the good 'ol US of A.
Got crap?
I might be willing to pay $6 for that tape ;) especially since I skipped so many classes in college ;)
Yea, guys I understand the difference between profit and revenue. I understand that from his $124,000 check he's got to deduct 1/12 of the $60 renewal fee, 15 bucks for his website, 40 bucks for "standing order", $31 for 'Kate, and lets just say $1000 for travel expenses! So he still Profited over $120,000 in December!!
My original point was this: I know you can make money at this! A check for $124,000 in 1 month proves that! NO ONE has monthly expenses of over $100,000!!
I know what the business costs! I know $124,000 in 1 month covers expenses !? He made plenty of profit. You don't pay CASH for a 6-figure car without profit, or write a check for almost $1 million for a down payment on your house!
And for the "holier than thous" that still think money is evil - Wake Up! Is Bill Gates bad because he makes money off other people?? Is GM evil cause they make money off selling cars? Was your HS science teacher evil cause they made money off educating you? Give me a break.
Stop acting like MLM uses people to make money! Everybody makes money. You don't make $$ until you help Other people make $$. You make money at whatever level your at. Or if you have some M/C volume, such as retailing XS to bars, etc. you can make good money off that to!
I don't have time to teach our economic system to you who act like you know nothing about commerce or free enterprise.
Money is not evil. Good people with $$ can do more good things! People who link being poor with being more spiritual or wealth with greed are off base! As off base as someone who says "blacks are lazy"!
God wants you to have more so you can give more and be a blessing to others. How does anyone not get this. How do Christians think their level of righteousness is linked to their level of poverty? I'm tired of people thinking having money is evil and that my upline is making money at my expense (I'm benefiting too!) If you think that, you simply don't understand the 642 plan.
If I get you a job and my company, and my company gives me a $1000 referal bonus for you getting hired, is that wrong? Did I make money off you?? Are you made that I got You a job and the Co. gave me a bonus? You shouldn't be!
Quixtar gives bonuses too - but not for headhunting people, for helping them be successful! And their bonuses aren't 1-time bonuses! They're residual! Every month I help someone make money, I benefit too! Whats wrong with that?
Oh, heres some good tape speak you guys should like...
Greg Duncan: "Do you have any idea of whats going on at your job? Why do you think they pay you?- Because They're Making Money Off You!! And here's a newsflash, the day they stop making money off you, they aren't gonna Pay you anymore!!"
Hey Ton,
Where's the party? Man, I will tell you what..
You sound really good. Make sure you ask your upline Diamond at the next open meeting how much the room costs for a night.
Got Cult?
Tonybot>"Yea, guys I understand the difference between profit and revenue. I understand that from his $124,000 check he's got to deduct 1/12 of the $60 renewal fee, 15 bucks for his website, 40 bucks for "standing order", $31 for 'Kate, and lets just say $1000 for travel expenses! So he still Profited over $120,000 in December!!"
No Tonybot, you still aren't getting it.
The $1000-$1500/month needs to be multiplied by the months and/or years your goldenboy was operating at a LOSS. Then you can find the NET PROFIT (OR LOSS).
And any fool can write a check and wave it around to the naive masses...but there is a difference between WRITING and CASHING that check.
You are a naive little man Tony. You get everything that it is coming to you -- and it ain't gonna be pretty....
Tony > "Everybody makes money. You don't make $$ until you help Other people make $$."
vm > Could you please clarify/support this statement?
OK, Tony, time for war. It is late in the day and I have a theology course to teach tonight, so I won’t give a total response yet. It will be up tonight or tomorrow sometime. Your totally misguided responses to my statement show me that you did not READ what I wrote. I did not suggest that money is evil, nor did I suggest that making money is evil. I suggest that there are many unrighteous ways to make money, MLM businesses in general fits into this category because the STATISTICAL FACT is that more people are hurt financially and emotionally than are helped by them. Money is not the root of all evil, the LOVE of money is the root of all evil (1 Timothy 6:10); I’ll respond in greater detail later. In the mean time, since you are so knowledgable about what ‘God wants’, I have some questions for you:
1.What was the general behavior of wealthy people in the New Testament times?
2.How many wealthy Christians were there in the NT church? What are their names?
3.If money is so important, why did Jesus not get rich and teach others too, after all, He IS God Incarnate, I’m sure He had the ability!
4.Why did Jesus tell the Rich Young Ruler to sell everything he has, give it to the poor, and follow him? What was the RYRs reply? What would you do in this case? What would your upline Diamond do in this case?
5.What is the ‘eye of the needle’ that Jesus speaks about when He says that it is easier for the camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to get into heaven?
6.What is Paul’s view of giving money?
7.Why was the poor womans offer who put in one small denarus in the collection greater than the Pharisee who put in a whole tithe?
8.In the statement: “Stop acting like MLM uses people to make money! Everybody makes money. You don't make $$ until you help Other people make $$.� How many people are HURT because they never see that promised amount of money (whoever’s fault it might be).
9.In the statement “God wants you to have more so you can give more and be a blessing to others.� Can you verify this with a Biblical text IN PROPER CONTEXT?
I will give you the correct answers to these after you post your attempts.
BTW, you are still tapespeaking, mostly rants from Danny Snipes, the so-called “minister� of the Winters Team. He wouldn’t know sound theology if it jumped up and bit him. Most of the rants you are spewing forth are from BWW128, Danny Snipes tape called “Abundance�, though, most of his tapes and several of his downline perpetrate this as well. I’ll tell you the problems of this when I give a detailed reply.
Tony > "Everybody makes money. You don't make $$ until you help Other people make $$."
This isn't strictly true.
If an IBO is buying Quixtar products and spending money on the system, then the profit sharing directs and above make money regardless of whether this IBO has sponsored anyone or is selling retail goods.
Tony,
Hey Buddy....
When you are at the open meeting... ask your upline diamond's wife if she bought her watch on The Home Shopping Network.
Got Cult?
So xanadustic tell us what the Bible says about liars, frauds and phonies like MLM King.
And while you're at it, tell us how righteous that $2500 Rolex df wears is. Oh that's right, it's probably phony, just like df.
Tony,
Thanks for making this a great place to visit each and every day. You too M&M
DF.......................Jackhole?! LOL (seriously, I did)
THAT is the funniest thing I've read here....ever.
Tony, it's really quite simple:
Products - Inefficient to get & overpriced
Motivation - Abso-posi-lutely useless outside of the Amway diamonds making $$ from the sale of them.
Seminars - A moneymaker for the diamonds.
Dreaming - please. Screw dreams, because dreams and a buck fifty will get you a cup of coffee. I have NEVER set a goal I did not reach in life. Dreams are when you're sleeping. Goals are what grown ups shoot for, Anthony.
I liked your little comment from Greg Duncan (gasp! not your thoughts?)
"Do you have any idea of whats going on at your job? Why do you think they pay you?- Because They're Making Money Off You!! And here's a newsflash, the day they stop making money off you, they aren't gonna Pay you anymore!!"
Do you have any idea of whats going on at diamond club? Why do you think they mislead you?- Because They're Making Money Off You!! And here's a newsflash, the day they stop making money off you, they aren't gonna acknowledge you anymore!!"
You'll just be another broke (albeit wiser) loser.
Dream on. When you grow up, start setting goals. That is reality.
Uh, guys? I think we ought to consider toning down the name-calling.
ESPECIALLY those of you who are no longer drinking the kool-aid (or who perhaps never were)...you are in full control of your mental faculties and therefore have no excuse for such immaturity.
Some of the tape-speak spouting apologists are firmly entrenched in their cult. Calling them names only serves to affirm their 'us vs. them' mentality, does not add value to the conversation, and ultimately makes the name caller look incapable of self-expression without resorting to the lowest common denominator.
And I don't know about you, but when I read comments from people who use epithets in place af reasoned thought, I tend to dismiss their argument without careful consideration.
Just a thought.
I feel no remorse over calling names. Tony is a jackhole -- it is a fact.
The Rolex watch is real, although it is the leather braclet model (Cellini). So, if you wanna hate, go hate on that...but deep down inside you gotta admit that's weak.
Nothing phony here -- what you see is what you get. You boys can't say that about your affiliations with the big A.
And I tithe too. And I still say Tony is a jackhole.
Wow, it's Thursday and Monday Reader Mail still active with 111 comments now.
Anybody remember Brian?
Whether he gets his refund or not, it's most likely that he will read all these comments and come away with a feeling of dissapointment in IBOs and Critics alike.
Maybe that's a good thing, I mean, no biased towards either side, Just an equal dismay.
Yeah I remember Brian. At least he attempted some research BEFORE getting heavily involved....unlike rocket, Prasad, Imran, df, mlmscam and the rest of your ilk!
U got a point M & M. I agree, I should have done some research. But when a respectable family friend is STPing, I tend to trust. I have learnt not to, after $10,000. My story was bit different then a single guy prospected in a mall, but if you hop on to the forum you'll know.
Keith Sr> The other factor is the retail requirement. Most MLM lawyers will agree (and remember, they're MLM lawyers FOR MLM's) that the movement of a majority (underline majority) of a companies' products at retail, not downline, is the hallmark of a totally legitimate MLM. How do I know this? I employ one, and interviewed many for the contract.
Imran> Dead on.
http://tinyurl.com/as3vg
"Our 70% rules provides that for in order to receive a bonus you must sell at least at least 70% of the product in any give month that you purchase from Quixtar."
Sharon Grider - Quixtar Chief Legal Officer
CK is right, name calling just hurt your credibility. And person who does so looks like an angry crackpot. And trust you me, no body pay any attention to an angry crackpot.
Brian's question is answered. I'll repeat:
- You can go to Quixtar and see what you can return there. You can return product sample and registration fee. You have a free mailing ticket in ur sample kit as well. Only thing you’ll lose is shipping you paid for delivery of kit to ur home. It’s in FedEx pocket now.
- To return BWW / WWDB / whatever intro pack, go to their site. I think in some sites you can return online. If not then see your sponsor or upline. Do it within next couple of months.
- The point of this mail was showing people mistrust on Quixtar.
- My personal experience with Quixtar customer service is great. I got to say: Hardly seen better customer service. Except Toyota corolla :) and NewYork Sub, and RoyalBank :D Only if their products were competitively priced, an honest IBO would have a shot.
- Tony, how would you like our wrestling match? Handicap match between you vs. Me and Parsad? Who would be referee? Some one from IBOAI as an arbitrator?
Embot> "At least he attempted some research BEFORE getting heavily involved....unlike rocket, Prasad, Imran, df, mlmscam and the rest of your ilk!"
Who is to say I did get heavily involved.
When I was a teen, hustling 2 jobs at the mall, I got prospected all the time by you zombie phonies.
Some 'mega rich' millionaire met with me at a Denny's to talk things over.
The only thing I lost was an hour of my precious time. I went on to much bigger and better things.
The poser was out $5.99 for my grand slam and coffe.
Nice assumption though Embot. Better luck next time...........
ok sorry df! I didn't want you to feel left out though, just in case you got slighted by my omission.
and Imran, I knew you got in under different circumstances.
emminemm>So xanadustic tell us what the Bible says about liars, frauds and phonies like MLM King.
And while you're at it, tell us how righteous that $2500 Rolex df wears is. Oh that's right, it's probably phony, just like df.
X> You seem to be reading my comments as well as Tony, so here is a brief quote from my previous post:
"I did not suggest that money is evil, nor did I suggest that making money is evil. I suggest that there are many unrighteous ways to make money, MLM businesses in general fits into this category because the STATISTICAL FACT is that more people are hurt financially and emotionally than are helped by them."
I have no evidence of the integrity one way or another about anyone posting here, but the FACTS about the integrity of the bigpins ARE OUT. There is nothing wrong with a Rolex. A good friend of mine who is a Christian just dropped cash for a new Jag (I don't know model), he did not make his money in A/Q, but has plenty. He did not have to make several people broke to get his money.
Tony, my comments will be comming, how are you doing on your homework assignment?
X
Well xanadustic, fair enough. But did you ever consider the fact that people are ultimately RESPONSIBLE FOR THEIR OWN ACTIONS? Even their actions within an MLM? So are you going to lump ALL Diamonds into the same category? Did you ever realize most people at that level started OUT AT ZERO? Even Duncans? And it was work, hard work, that gets anyone to that level? Did you not realize anyone you sponsor can get much larger than yourself??? So you got a problem with someone like, let's say, Theron Nelson?
xanadustic, you still didn't comment on how moral it is for someone to make up a phony profile, lie and create made up personal experiences on here.
em,
My stance is that once someone sees corruption and taking advantage over people for their own gain as a means to the wealth they or others aquire and do not take steps to correct the problem, that is the point where the problem lies. Many of the bigpins got to where they were, not ignorant of the tools money, but ignorant of people are used for the tool money. Those that turn away do the right thing, those that justify the problem become the voluntary unrighteous.
As far as people working hard to get there, yes, that is true. I do not deny that money can be made, but once you see the corruption and fail to act, that is where I am speaking on.
As far as making up testimony here, that would be a problem, however, I see the allegations being made, but no evidence to back it up. There is plenty of evidence for the tool system corruption. I am not the sovereign judge, I only have the obligaton to point out the sin. In brief answer, if someone is making up testimony, there is no point, the evidence against BWW and the other AQMOs speaks for itself. To make up a testimony is wrong.
Did I miss anything?
Tony, I'll respond when you post your answers.
Xanadustc, you are doing a GREAT job at illustrating the ethical, moral, and religious problems within AQ, but I just have to add my two cents' worth.
Yes, everyone is responsible for his or her own actions. The problem I see with AQ is that there is so much emphasis on the teamwork aspect, the "come follow me", "we're in this together for the good of the world" mentality, it is hard to see that people being responsible for their own actions. They are just following the indoctrination of their upline. (Remember what Janet observed about MOD and the moral if its story according to BWW!) AND this all seems to come under the umbrella of being God's will for all mankind.(Just think of all the charities you can support with the money you'll make! )
Then there is the other side of the coin, the luxurious living, the "Peter Island" priviledge, the "never work again" mentality.
So what is the truth? Is work good or bad according to AQ? It appears that work to the point of obsession is to be commended IF it is for AQ. Time and effort put toward your JOB is just to get you by until the your AQ ship finally comes in.
As a Christian, I an greatly offended by the doctrines of the AQ Christianity. God blesses me in so many ways, both in physical and spiritual needs. He only asks that I give back at least 10% of the money that I earn, money that is actually a gift from Him in the first place The doctrine that my 10% isn't as important to God as the 10% from a multimillionare is just not found in the Bible! Remeber the widow's mite.
God also asks us to give of our TIME and EFFORT to help increase His kingdom. This means that we help and care for others, not for what they can give back to us, but out of our love for fellow man and CHRIST, not for what they can add to our "downline."
BTW, as a Christian, I don't "embrace poverty." It is in our human nature to what stuff. I have many "wants" ; some of those I get, some of those I don't, and that's OK. I do know that God will provide me with what I need. As St. Paul says, "I have learned to be content is all circumstances." For some people, those circumstances will include many physical blessings, and that's OK. It's when a person puts alltheir effort into getting those things is were the danger lies. that is the problem I see with AQ.
I only express my opinion based on Scripture. I am not trying to judge IBO's or sound "holier than thou." I just need to express some concerns I have regarding the doctrines of the AQ denomination of Christianity.
P.S.
'Sorry for all the mispelled words in my last post.
Hey M&M,
I love you buddy. But from your tone it doesn't seem like you love me.
You are one angry little man, M&M.
I'll tell you what friend. This is what you need to do:
When you are at your next open meeting ask your upline emerald how much the room cost to rent.
Give it a try at least before you start knocking it.
Got Cult?
Yeah, MLMKing, your boy Embot does seem a little hostile.
He's quick to make assumptions and accusations, and even quicker to retract them when he is proven wrong.
He should cut back on his XS intake...maybe get a little sleep...
The AQ lifestyle is breaking these poort robots.
"No more yanky my wanky, the Embot need food!"
inquiring mind,
keep up the work. I don't embrace poverty, either! There are SERIOUS differences between Christian doctrine and MLM, esp AQMOs. You know this, as do I. I'm still waiting for Tony to post before I answer my questions (some people may be surprised by the true answers to them!
X
Tony,
I missed you last night.
Got Cult?
All this talk about religion, Chrisitanity and business means nothing to me. No offense, but I'm a bottom line kind of guy who also happens to be agnostic. To me, it doesn't matter how many souls you save in your BUSINESS if you are losing money hand over fist.
When you are talking the bottom line of AmQuix, the question is how many people are making money and how many people are losing money. And the answer is, the overwhelming majority are losing money so the tiny majority can make money.
Just because someone does profit does not make the system good either. Just take a look at a Ponzi scheme. The person at the top could make millions, but it doesn't mean Ponzi is a good system. In fact, we know that Ponzi schemes work by fleecing the overwhelming majority so that the tiny minority can profit. Sound familiar?
And therein lies the difference between traditional business, retailing IBO's, and system IBO's. The difference is where the money comes from. With traditional business, the money comes from customers outside the business. Same with retailing IBO's. But with system IBO's and the "buy from yourself and teach others to do so," the money comes from within the system. And since the money comes within the system and gets redistributed, the only way anyone can profit is for others within the system to lose, just like in a Ponzi scheme. Ask yourself, Tony, for your diamond's $125,000, how much of his check came out of your wallet?
Another bottom line with AmQuix is the products are hard to retail. They are generally more expensive then what you can get at Wally-World, and quality is subjective. This makes it hard to carve out a niche retailing the products, and most people simply do not buy from AmQuix without the potential financial incentive you get being an IBO. The result is 80% or more of AmQuix products are bought by IBO's themselves, which of course, is a problem. For example, out of the $125,000 diamond check, $100,000 of it came out of the pockets the downline IBO's. To take it further, to create that $100,000 portion of the check, IBO's spent at least $250,000 on overpriced AmQuix products.
In the end, with little or no outside retail sales, the movement of money in AmQuix works just like in a Ponzi scheme. If the only ones buying are IBO's, the fact of the matter is, it is mathematical certainty the IBO's can't make more money then they are spending. And this is before a single cent is spent on tools.
Amen DMM
Unethical tool systems aside, I personally cannot see how people honestly believe they can retail (even at "wholesale" prices) enough to make a profit.
Oh, I get it all right. The argument seems to alw
I'm pretty sure you're right about Brian. Any one of you "leaders" out there want to lead Brian through this mess?
Or is that cross lining?
Posted by: rocket | May 30, 2005 4:37 PM