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May 16, 2005
Monday Reader Mail: 43
By QBlog in Reader Mail
This week's Reader Mail selection speaks for itself.
name: Ryan H.
date: May 6, 2005
message: What a joke this whole web site is.
If you didn't make in Amway or Quixtar and want to play Blame Someone Else, this is the place. Wah Wah Wah!!! Someone made money off tapes, books & funtions. They should of charged you weenies $1000.00 for your registration then maybe you could a appreciate the system & take your bus. serious.
Maybe you should of signed up for Excel. Then tranferred your group to Shaklee.
Get real you cry babies, look in the mirror and take some responsibility for your lot. Quite blaming others you IDIOTS. Business' fail every day in this world. Suck it up!
Wah! Hey guess what, Alticor grew again last year. Hah. Still legal, still selling awesome products & still a profitable business if you work at it. Networking or Retail. What ever way you choose.
I'm Out
Sounds like Ryan's a true leader. If only he knew how to spell.
Comments
Hi Michael,
If you click on my name, my email id shows up. I am still ready to fork up 10K if you show me the profit is $250,000 that your brianwashed BWW preaches. But the condition is it should be products money not tapes, CDs and functions.
Ok now that you heard it, are you game?
I want an independent accountant/auditor to certify your diamonds scheduleC. And also, from that scheduleC , i will show you most of his profits are from 'TOOL SCAM' rather than moving products.
I am wrong give me 2K. I am giving you 1 to 5 odds here.
Ready???
Prasad
Okay, what tape is that from????? :)-
Ryan seems to be the type of guy that adheres to the "internet is the bathroom walls" philosophy...this is not a shameless plug for my blog, but he should read this:
http://daveontheroad.blogspot.com/2005/01/mlms-on-bathroom-wall_31.html
And just a quick grammar comment..I can over look QUITE for Quit...sometimes you just start typing too fast, BUT even though it may SOUND like "should of" it really is "should have"...if you need to make a valid point, your impression to the world on the internet is through your use of the language, if you mess it up, you'll have a harder time regaining any credibilty when it's actually time to discuss a matter rather than just writing over some bad words on what I assume you perceived to be "bathroom walls"
I agree with Ryan. This site is funny, specially this monday section.
And I agree with him yet again, "He's out".
And I also agree, WAH WAH. some ppl do cry a lot by just reading web sites. WAH WAH
Wow. Such stunningly typical clarity of thought, Ryan, and the prose with which it's delivered...one can only dream of being nearly so eloquent.
Note to self: If you're going to attempt to communicate on the bathroom wall of society, make sure your rantings don't prove the opposition's point.
I think Ryan just gave me an awesome idea for Quixtar's next slogan.
[b]QUIXTAR: We're Still Legal!!![\b]
What do you guys think.
:) I like, also,
Quixtar: We are NOT a cult
Yes, Ryan- still legal, after all these years... If you follow the 70% rule. My ex-upline sort of glossed over that part *grin*, said that you really didn't need to worry about that part 'til you were direct... Seems like lots of direct distributors don't worry about that part, ever...
Although I am no where near as eloquent or polished a writer as Dave Robison, I do at least proofread my posts prior to submitting them. Given the fact that I tend to have strong feelings on this subject, I feel that the only possible way that I will be taken seriously in my opinions is to submit a message that is grammatically correct, cogent, and uses correct spelling and punctuation.
Everry time I reed a mesege spelt like i breeth thru my mouf nd stuff; i purty much no that it were ritten by a ambot. fired up ambot, dern it, quixbot. N u can make munny too n live the dimond lifestile, jes foller ur upline thingy...
Last, but not least- I don't see a lot of "blaming" going on in this blog. What I do read is a lively discussion focused on the shortcomings of a business which is often misrepresented to its' prospects.
In a perfect world, there would not have to be a curiousity opproach- which I have taken to calling an "animosity approach" (for the animosity created when the prospect finds out, yes, it IS Amway). And the for-profit tools system would be reabsorbed by Alticor, and the profits actually used to help the newest distributor.
There, Ryan- no blame, just solutions. Do you have the guts to disagree, much less respond?
How 'bout this for a new slogan:
"Quixtar- really, we're not as bad as they say"
Congratulations Ryan, your upline would be so proud of you. They have got you brainwashed and now you are spreading their "disease". Good luck, you'll need it! Now, I'm out!!
Once you become a committed IBO the slogan becomes "Quixtar, the only white meat" instead of the saying "Pork, the other white meat". Hah!!
QBlog:
I think this thread has spawned a new feature: "Name that tape"
You can dig through your archives and pull out a few excerpts to see if the ex-bots can recall the old brain-warshing techniques.
It might be interesting for the new-bots to see how the same old record is playing over and over again.....
When one vistits the bathroom walls of society, one should bring a bucket of water and a rag if one intends to clean off enough space to participate. Otherwise, you are simply contributing to the mess.
In other words, Ryan, don't use dirt and filth expecting clean results.
PW
I'm back again.
I decided to look at Ryan's letter once again and find the good points in what he says.
Good Point One.
"They should of charged you weenies $1000.00 for your registration then maybe you could a appreciate the system & take your bus. serious."
If indeed the price to join was $1000, I suspect that you would have fewer people join on merely the basis of 2-hour "open meeting" and some "pangs" of job dissatisfaction or a "really good feeling".
Also I suspect the sponsor might be more forthcoming with financial data from his own business as evidence the investment is worth it.
This might also quickly eleminate the feeling the business is a hobby and can be done anytime the "feeling" is right.
I also suspect the "gubment" might be more inclined to keep a more observant watch.
Good Point 2.
"Maybe you should of signed up for Excel. Then tranferred your group to Shaklee."
The reputation of Shaklee might be the best thing that ever happened to Excel reps.
Good Point....nevermind, this exercise was tough enough to come with the two.
Ryan sounds like you ordered a case of toliet paper and hit your first 100 pv! Now go use it and roll your own yard and next month you can order more!
If the Internet is the bathroom walls of society, I think Ryan H.'s letter is the toilet paper.
David, I have to disagree with your point:
"Also I suspect the sponsor might be more forthcoming with financial data from his own business as evidence the investment is worth it. "
I haven't heard nor seen MANY stories where the IBO was forthcoming with any substantial financial data.
At the same time, the majority of the people who sign up for this crap are too naive to request such information. It comes don to a lack of true business knowledge/training.
The $1000 'franchise fee' would only act as a greater barrier to entry. Period.
But I would argue that a higher barrier to entry would limit the number of idiots who launder their money through the AmQuix pyramid.
prasad,
I am not in BWW. I am in worldwide under the puryear organization.
As to answer your challenge, send me your information first, then I'l accept the proper challenge.
If you are wrong give you 2k? you really must think I am stupid! If you are wrong I'll blog about it. Hows that?
If you really felt you were 100% correct, you wouldn't need any odds buffer.
Let's stick with the original challenge. What have you got to lose?
"$10k if you can proove that you can really earn $250k without the tools business."
Nothing more nothing less. Prasad, it's time to put up or shut up with your original challenge. There is no going back on your word. Please feel free to email me when you are ready to accept the ORIGINAL challenge.
Michael,
I don't have to 'think' you are stupid. Your involvment in this business/scam proves that. OK lets stick to the original challenge, do not pay me 2k. As it is you are losing your shirt in this business. It is wrong of me to expect anything from broke people like you. I thought you are incapable of original thought. I didn't know you can't even read english. If you point to my name it shows my email id.
we have to pick an accountant to certify your diamond's ScheduleC
Finally, when do you want to do it?
I am a new to the wonderful world of FREEDOM!! (i.e., I washed the soap out of my eyes, as well).
The "bathroom walls of society" comment is primarily from Greg Duncan on "Private Franchising in a dot com World" (It is burried too deep in the box of 'tools' to retreive the number, but is something like RP891 (It was recently replaced with WW188).
I thought it was interesting how the upline suggested that we should expect to LOSE about 100 of those tapes by giving them out before a leg would go Platinum ($8.25 8 100 = $825 for that one tape, let us not foget the cost of SOT, BOM, Opens, Rally/Seminars, Functions, travels, leadership meetings, etc).
Since many people don't disclose much finacial info, I am not shameful and have the tax records to prove it: I took the business very serious, showed several plans, and spent $11,717.06 JUST ON THE BWW SYSTEM over a 3.5 year period of time. My final conclusion in the business is this: You CAN make money, but you must compromise your MORALS to do it because to be successful, you are promoting the tools that rip off so many other people. In addition, there will ALWAYS be tons of people NOT MAKING ANYTHING for ever one person who breaks even, let alone profits.
Hi X,
welcome to the Forum. I am happy that you are willing to show the actual, valid data rather than hyped up numbers/claims that these Quixtar Distributors make here. Lets see what rebuttal these Tony, Mike, M&M can come up with.
Now that you are out of the scam, goodluck with your future.
Why doesn't QBlog post Michael's Shedule C -- he can act as the referee in this grudge match.
Michael, I think you can scan and send that info, right?
It's GO TIME!
*hangs head in shame*
Only adds fuel to the fire against those of us who choose to do this properly.
Ha!
I don't want to join in the witty repartee of the flying "idiots", but... Seriously, Michael- your logic in this statement to Prasad
"If you are wrong give you 2k? you really must think I am stupid! If you are wrong I'll blog about it. Hows that?"
shows either:
a) complete misunderstanding of the challenge -or-
b) you ARE an imbecile
Because I'm a basically nice and forgiving guy, I'm hoping it's "a"
But after all, stupid is as stupid says (to bastardise the famous saying), so let me clarify to the best of my ability:
He's making a bet: If you prove your case according to his terms, you get $10K. If you lose your case, according to his terms, you pay him $2K. Hell, $2K is only half of your annual WWDB/WWG/BWW (or whatever it is) system cost. Maybe you and M&M can split the risk :-)
Thanks for joining the fray, Xanadustc. As an exbot, I know that you will have fun here.
On the note of tools/ lost CDs...WWDB offers CDs/tapes for $2.50. *Shrug*
"On the note of tools/ lost CDs...WWDB offers CDs/tapes for $2.50"
It's nice to see that at least one LOS has responded somewhat to the tools issue. Heck, at only $2.50 per tape I might not have quit *grin*
As much as I like and respect Ron Puryear- and I'm not being sarcastic, Daddy, I really do- does anybody really think that the prices would have been reduced if the pressure had not been put on the subject via the "bathroom walls"?
He and his team, above all, are really good businessmen. Ethically challenged, possibly, but good businessmen to be sure.
*shrug*
Well, whatever 'spin' someone may put on something, one thing that has been 'emphasized' is that the management team's focus is to 'do what is in the best interest for the newest IBO'. Lowering the cost of materials across the board (Including reductions in book prices, that, in a lot of cases even beat USED Books at amazon and half.com...which is great!) has helped the retention rate in our group. People aren't as torn about getting a tape a week at $2.50, or handing them out.
An example is what is known as True North -- a collection of 18 CDs that make up the teaching of WWDB. At $7/CD it would be $126 for all of them. It took me some months to build my own set (mind you, for a long time I borrowed from my upline which they did not mind at all, and I still borrow lots). Now, its available for $36.
"Good businessmen" or not, its a lot better for new folks.
Greg Duncan, at leadership, said that he has seen half of his business fade away every year for the past twenty years, but maintains that the decisions management team makes is helping the newest folks out, to get them profitable as soon as possible.
And I quote, "We (the diamonds) don't deserve to make $500,000 until our newest person in our groups can make $500 in a month. This (product focus) will help achieve that goal."
Oh, and to answer your question: I don't know whether or not anything can be attributed to that comment (bathroom walls).
Frankly, I was surprised when I saw blogs emerge as an internet force. I have been online since 1996, actively involved in technology and the latest online trends. One day I noticed Google's search results started sucking and bringing up all these people's opinions...
And I discovered the largest movement in internet history...blog sites. Frankly, I think they're a scourge. If you want to voice your opinion, do so the traditional method. I don't want to hear that Joe Blow from Timbuktu thinks XYZ (we'll call it Quixtar) is the most amazing thing on the earth.
(Oh my god, an IBO said he doesn't want to see a positive blog!)
Conversely, I don't want to see Jane Suck from Johndabob thinks that ZYX (we'll call it Quixtar) is the crappiest thing on the earth.
I'd rather see search results from reputable news sources, business communities, political organizations, corporations, etc.
(Example: Circuit city is listed as a partner store...how about a corporate press release, sales figures, etc. released independently of Quixtar's figures)
Quixtar's figures are great; however, it’s nice to see it coming from multiple sources to confirm.
We've got a few resources for Quixtar information:
Blogs
AmQuix (which, has a lot of user opinion, and/or outdated / misinformation)
Quixtar.com (which has references to other sites under the Quixtar Network Index, formerly the press room)
And while the info appears good (http://www.bevnet.com/news/spotlight/xs/default.asp)
...has anyone actually heard of bevnet.com?
I stand by the products that we market, and trust in the money back guarantee every time I try something new.
Honestly, I have had problems with carpal tunnel for nearly two years now. I had never heard anyone in my upline or downline with a personal testimony about magna bloc, and I couldn't find info online (except people wondering if it was real or not)
At $73/retail for the wrist bracelet gel, and myself needing two, I was going to try them and return them if they were not a large help.
I remember pulling them from the box thinking how are these going to help, they're flimsy cloth with two little circle magnets...
Ten minutes later I knew I wasn't sending them back. I haven't run across a product that I haven't liked, but I don't use the dental floss or toilet paper. (You get like 2 miles of dental floss in a case...That would last me like fifteen years)
Just wish people who haven't tried this stuff, would. (And no, a three day sample pack of double X doesn't give you a large enough sample to decide if it’s worth the price)
Maybe a new site that categorizes information:
Quixtar Positive (Facts)
--Products
--Business Practices
--People
--Environmental
--Causes
Quixtar Positive (Opinion)
--Products
--Business Practices
--People
--Environmental
--Causes
Quixtar Negative (Facts)
--Products
--Business Practices
--People
--Environmental
--Causes
Quixtar Negative (Opinion)
--Products
--Business Practices
--People
--Environmental
--Causes
Quixtar Motivational Organizations (Positive, facts)
(Broken down into major organizations) i.e.
BWW
--CDs
--Tools
--Practices
--Testimonies
WWDB
--CDs
--Tools
--Practices
--Testimonies
TEAM
--CDs
--Tools
--Practices
--Testimonies
Yaeger
--CDs
--Tools
--Practices
--Testimonies
With the negative reciprocals, etc.
(Shrug) Would be nice.
One last note before I get back to work,
"ethically challenged" -- I've not witnessed nor heard of anyone in my upline, up to Ron and Georgia Lee Puryear, doing something unethical. My upline Double Diamond is Brad Wolgamott.
Even drug dealers won't accept that they are doing something unethical.. That doesn't make them right. I am sure IBOs consider stealing money from people who are the bottom of the pyramid, as ethical
I guess the definition of 'Ethical Behaviour' is different for AMBOTS.
Your comment (P) is an example of why blogs are a scourge. Unproductive, non-contributing dribble that makes one more comment to scroll past.
Anyhow: "I am sure IBOs consider stealing money from people who are the bottom of the pyramid, as ethical"
Lets go over two things: First, get over the fact that things look like a triangle (or pyramid, if you were). Certain things(governments, educational institutions, military...business...families...dang, I'm drawing a blank for one that doesnt look that way) take the shape of a pyramid. Now if you want to make a claim to say something is and "Illegal pyramid", then please direct your claim to the FTC (www.ftc.gov).
Secondly, whether or not someone buys a CD or not (I'm not going to talk about the books, becfause with WWDB I get them cheaper than in a bookstore as I mentioned earlier) is completely their decision. And at the end of every CD, and printed on the CD Face, it very clearly says, "While the techniques and approaches suggested here may have worked for others, no one can gaurentee that they will work for you. We do however hope that the ideas suggested here will help you in developing a strong and profitable business. This product has been produced independantly of any other corporate entity, and has not been reviewed. Purchase of this product is optional, and subject to the refund policy described in your purchase agreement for business support materials. Future purchases can be discontinued at any time."
I like the part that says, "Purchase of this product is optional"
How about the part in the BSMAA that says no one can force or coherse you into buying BSM, and that it is your sponsor's responsibility to train AND motivate you?
My upline has chuckled that I read over EVERYTHING that is involved in a registration, the BSMAA, rules of conduct, etc. I even make the new person CLICK THE BUTTON themselves to check the box that says they agree and ask them before submitting it if they want me to clarify anything.
I'm saying just put the whole plate of cookies out and let people pick and choose which ones they want.
"Special Advertorial Section"
That's what comes up above the Bevnet XS review- it's SPONSORED editorial content.
I've met Brad Wolgamott - I found him to be just about as sincere as he had to be *grin*
My comment on "ethically challenged", speaking of your upline, has to do with the persistance of the "system", at whatever price. The pricing may have now been adjusted down to a more palatable level- but that does not absolve your upline LOS for prior years of abusive fleecing of their downline. It just doesn't.
I strongly agree that ANY sales organization NEEDS a system of training and motivation to help move its products. But if you cannot see the abuse that has occurred, and continues in many LOS's, you are BLIND.
And THAT is why I said "ethically challenged"
What don't you understand about that?
The disclaimer on the BS material is FTC required, for all MLM's. It's an appropriate legal disclaimer, and I believe is fudamentally correct. The BSMAA is a rather one-sided document that gives most of the power in the contract over to the corporation and the QMO's. There isn't much recourse for the lowly IBO, since the application cannot be considered complete without the execution of the BSMAA, and an individual upline cannot modify it based on exceptions taken by the new IBO.
So this contract, which I signed "as a formality", was the reason that my upline refused to buy back the a) undelivered SOT's in my inventory and b) the 5 sets of "True North" tapes I was counselled to stock at my pin.
Way in the past, but ethical?
Come on, Daddy, climb down off of your high horse. Rule 62 - don't take yourself so damned seriously!
As far as the CD's go, why not allow people to download them? Sure $2.50 is cheap, but it is certainly not cost.
Give me a break. If the reason for the motivation was because it assisted people in moving product, then the CD would be offered at no cost, because the upline would see HUGE profit from the movement of product.
All they've done is lower their profit to pay lip service to the fact that what they were doing was wrong.
Taking less money that doesn't need to be taken is STILL wrong.
Why do they need to make a profit at all if the motivation is soooo vital to helping move product?
I know some people may not have a computer. Their upline could burn them CD's, no problem, right?
There is a reason that they sell motivation, and only the most naive or corrupt believe otherwise
Hey, is there gonna be a Schedule C bet here or not???? Let's not get off track.
Prasad has 10 large against Michael's income claims. Where is Michael to back it up?!?!?
YES!!!
How about it Michael? Is your diamond's product income as big as your mouth?
Betcha your diamond doesn't cooperate, for obvious reasons.
I'd be willing to bet that the birth signs of both Michael & Daddy are that of taurus.
All that bull.......lol
From Xanadustc:
"My final conclusion in the business is this: You CAN make money, but you must compromise your MORALS to do it because to be successful, you are promoting the tools that rip off so many other people. In addition, there will ALWAYS be tons of people NOT MAKING ANYTHING for ever one person who breaks even, let alone profits."
That pretty much sums it up in a nutshell. Good post X.
""ethically challenged" -- I've not witnessed nor heard of anyone in my upline, up to Ron and Georgia Lee Puryear, doing something unethical. My upline Double Diamond is Brad Wolgamott."
Posted by: DaddyMustbewrong
I have two points:
1. If they DID do something unethical in the present or recently, you would not hear about it because this would discredit the light of 'perfection' you see him in (Not to say you should not have mentors, I have two personally, but I learned a truth: Your mentors are most effective when they DO NOT HAVE FINANCIAL GAIN in mind with you - I don't know about WWDB, but BWW teaches that the best mentor has a financial interest in your success.
2. Do you consider service theft to be unethical? On the tape "Persistence and Achievement" (FED7CD), Brad Wolgamott tells the 'funny story' about going into a hotel room that the housekeeper was cleaning and talking her out claiming that this was his room. He showered, slept, and went on the way. This is a funny story, a seemingly 'harmless' story, but one which throws up a flag: All crime starts small, so I would advise you to keep a sharp eye, respect him, but think for yourself.
I've heard it before on here and ill say it if Alticrap is sooooo gooood and if your doing so well she us a schedule c to prove it and then try and show me 1 diamond in the unitedstates or canada that is new "within the last 12 months" this whole damn business is a scam open your eye's stop letting the system bleed you dry.
Prasad-
The bet was to proove that someone can earn 250k WITHOUT the tools business wasn't it? Or being an AMBOT I am misreading that?
Prasad, I would have to get my upline diamond's permission if he wants to partake in this little bet. I am sure he would request your full information before he disclosed anything to you. Please send me an email of when you'd like to discuss it. I'll set up a communikate conference call with you and him if you'd like.
If your serious about this you will email me or you are just playing little rinky dink games. If I don't get an email from you within 24hrs with your contact information I know your just playing around and don't really have 10k to fork over. The ball is in your court "prasad".
Nice grammar in that post from Randy. If that sentence ran on any more it would be a marathon. "she us a schedule c" ?? huh? "open your eye's" ??
I wonder how your diamond will feel about all this, Mikey. He'll probably tell you he's not about to waste his time proving anything to anyone.
If that is the case, I'd be asking as a part of his group to see the proof that everything is as stated.
After all, what does he have to lose?
Michael:
This is the bet, per Prasad's comments in this thread:
"If you click on my name, my email id shows up. I am still ready to fork up 10K if you show me the profit is $250,000 that your brianwashed BWW preaches. But the condition is it should be products money not tapes, CDs and functions."
That's what you have to prove. Understand?
Whehter or not it comes from you or your upline "boss", well, I guess that is something you & Prasad have to work out....
Michael,
Nice touch of manipulating the bet.
All of your moronic LOS state the new diamond makes $250,000 and all the established diamonds are multi-millionaires.
So here are the conditions
Either you can prove me a new diamond makes $250,000 without tools business or an established diamond makes millions without tools business. Either way it is fine.
And also, like I said, from your diamond's schduleC, I will prove to you that his tool income is more than his 'PV' income. I never heard a peep about this, from you or your partner in crime M&M, for obvious reasons. Are you too afraid to take this up?
And for 24 hour deadline, boy you must have become really stupid after drinking all that kool-aid from your cult. Listen carefully or read carefully. If you point to my name, my email id shows. There, that is my contact info. I put out this bet long ago just to prove that you guys are a scam. Don't come here and try to act like a big shot giving deadlines to me. You are nothing but a Cult tape buying, people cheating, kool-aid driniking AMSCUM.
By the way, its my bet, I should be the one setting the rules, not Ambots like you.
Goodluck losing money in the scam.
IBO's - why do we even wasted our time on here!! Qblog, isn't running an unbiased site, it's OBVIOUSLY biased!! Someone blasting Quixtar sends in "Reader Mail", and he'll "fix all the spelling errors, and edit for content", but then an IBO sends in an email with gramatical errors, and of course he posts it as is!
Hey, all you critbots, jump all over randy for using the phrase "try and show me", when I think he meant "try to show me" or tell him United States is actually TWO words. Oh, but thats OK, when they agree with you! Hypocrits!!!
Oh, and Prasad, if you payed attention to the plan you'd see that new diamonds make $150,000 from Quixtar, and $100,000 from "the training and support system". Which would be tools, seminars, etc, its right in the plan!! By the way, while I don't have his Sch. C - I do have a fax of 2 checks from my upline Diamond which shows in 1 month he made $124,000 just from Quixtar - no BWW money. But I won't bother getting copies of his other checks, which are about $50,000 each month, cause I KNOW you're not gonna give me ANY amount of money.
I love how you have a problem with the fact that people make money off selling books, Seminars, etc. Isn't education worth something?? Isn't that why you dropped THOUSANDS of $$ on COLLEGE!! If you have a problem with people selling knowledge, I suggested you start blasting ALL training systems such as colleges, martial art schools, bartending institutes, etc. What is your problem!!
Someone mentioned something about people at the top making money off people at the bottom?! What the heck do you think happens at every company in the world!! Your company makes $$ off you!!Your CEO make more than you and your boss!!, and your boss makes more than you!! And what are the odds of you being the CEO?? Guys this isn't "tapespeak" - its frickin common sense! You are NEVER gonna make more than your boss or CEO, (Well are you??) but in this business, you CAN make more than the guy "above" you. It happens ALL the time!!
I love the one guy (Xana) when he said - "I took the business very serious, showed several plans..." What's that!! Several?? You showed several plans?!? How bout several plans a month? Or a week! My sponsor probably shows 7 plans in 5 days, thats why he's @ 10,000pv, in Platinum Qualification, and in his 20's!
That's like saying "I took college very serious, went to several classes, but ended up just spending $12,000 and didn't really think it was worth it."
Man, I never put down the people who give it a try, and say its not for them, or the people who just say "no thanks" from the start, but I can't stand the rants of people who thought this was get rich quick, and then get on here and blast it!
What else have you failed at? Tell us about how you never made it to Eagle Scout!? Or never played college basketball, or never got your black-belt. I'd like to hear about how none of that worked out for you either, and who's to blame.
To the people attempting to succeed in ANYTHING (school, work, business)- good luck to you! Keep working hard toward your goal!! To the negative, ignorant, small-minded people, all I have to say to you is one thing:
(nothing)
Tony:
Are you the same Tony that owes me $10,000?
http://mlmlaw.blogspot.com/2004/08/market-saturation-working-definition.html
Tony,
Thanks. With your rant, you just proved the power of brainwashing in your cult.
Aaah Tony, pay no mind too theese critucs. They got nuttin bettir to due width there tyme then to try to steel other peoples dreems and make fun uf our speling. Tell those joekers to get a life. You go show them tony. If they kant understant a simpel consept of bying frum yur own stoor, they just a buntch of loosers in my humbel and ackurate opinyin.
lawdawg, sorry, nope that wasn't me, never been to that site before. But he's right when he says less than 2% is in an MLM, really less than 1%, thats hardly saturation. I live in a town of 350,000 people and maybe 2000 are IBO's. Not to mention you can expand anywhere.
And people always talk about "then they have to just sell to themsleves". Do you guys even understand how the plan works?? That's the point, you're Supposed to have personal use. And people keep throwing out "the 70% rule". You guys are lost. As long as your doing 50 pv to members or clients, or $100 to M/C, or 10 seperate M/C orders, you meet the requirement put in place by the FTC to receive credit for downline volume.
And Prasad, once again YOU prove that you cannot rebut my arguments with anything other than insults and your same broken-record rants. Seriously, think of something new! I make valid argument after valid argument, and all you can come back with is, "ah you're just brainwashed", and "its a cult". Dude you're pathetic. Stop wasting webspace.
Next Prasad makes a valid point (if that ever happens) - I say we all use his tactics, and say "ah, you've just been brainwashed by your college, or job, or parents, etc. Prasad, how bout you actually say something to refute the merits of my arguments. YOU CAN'T! Because it's the truth!
You know mlm - you're right! Man, thanks for straightnin' me out, you're OK in my book!
Oh... on a side note, I think "steell" is spelled with 2 L's actually. Would just hate to see you get blasted by one of these half-witted hypocrits who try to be funny instead of actually making any valid arguments. Ha, but you know how They are!!
Take care buddy! ;)
prasad,
I kind of figured out you really don't have the 10k to lose. So the bet is off. Go hide with all of your little criticbot friends touting that the profits are in the tools. talk about being a BOT.
I gave you a deadline because I didn't want to play your little rinky dink phony bet for longer than a day. If you were very serious you'd send me your contact information. Any normal business person would ask for credentials before sending info. A cheap aRse hotmail acct isn't proper contact info. Any schmuck get a free hotmail acct. What are you afraid of? Don't have any balls to take on a Diamond or what? Thats what I thought. Go scurry away.
Tony,
This website is a biased website. Please look at the favorites list of the pro quixtar people. I will defend qblog that it IS biased. Its these criticbots who jump on the bandwagon that tout the same recording over and over and over again that "the profits are in the tools" It only sums up the criticbots thoughts into one sentence. Nothing new there. They don't have enough of an original thought process to say something besides "the profits are in the tools".
I actually like coming here for encouragement. They say I can't do something- then I turn around and do it anyways!
Tony, You crack me up :-)) .. I underestimated the power of Kool-aid.. my bad.. I can't make valid points with you becaue you level of understanding is way below normal people.
Michael,
I am not the one who is hiding behind cults. You are an a**hole trying to divert the bet. Hey idiot, I can take you and your diamond on any day.. By the way, like I told you, you are nothing but scum of the earth. I guess you do not have Cajhones to back up your claims. Go away loser.. Go hide behind your tapes and dark coliseums..
Does it hurt everytime you and your group pay for your upline's Ferrari??
Prasad,
If you joined Amway/Quixar anytime after 1997, you have only yourself to blame. There was plenty of info out there on the web even then. What did you do, check your brains in at the door when you got in? You should have checked it out, both for the negative and the positive, if you were seriously considering this business. Apparently you did not, along with a lot of the other posters here, especially rocket.
With that in mind, I think you really ought to shut you big trap once and for all.
Hey M&M, Welcome back. How much loses are you claiming on your scheduleC?
Talk about checking the brains at the door. Looks like your brain is washed away in the cult.
“lawdawg, sorry, nope that wasn't me, never been to that site before. But he's right when he says less than 2% is in an MLM, really less than 1%, thats hardly saturation. I live in a town of 350,000 people and maybe 2000 are IBO's. Not to mention you can expand anywhere.� - Saturation is not the issue, the issue is de facto saturation, a business concept related to the carrying capacity of an ecosystem, i.e. (in business), the amount of IBO’s an area can hold before they start driving people NUTS because everyone has been approached and are not interested (for one reason or another). When such a limit is attained, the leaders move out to more target rich areas. The former areas become target rich again in about 5 – 10 years after the population has rolled over. This is for better or for worse. I KNOW the business will never ‘saturate’ because I will never join again, therefore, it will never saturate. But consider now de facto saturation. I will also not buy the products because they are more costly. The toothpaste currently costs $4.10 (I could sell one for the suggested retail of $4.70 and RUN TO THE BANK with the $0.60 profit). I purchased TWO tubes of Aquafresh (of slightly smaller size, 6.5 oz. as opposed to 6.75 oz.) for $1.73 the other day. Since I will not buy, and I might consider myself an ‘average’ shopper, how much can YOU SELL?
Ask yourself a business question: Assuming you are a Platinum and making your 25% bonus on goods moved through your business, that means with our toothpaste example you make $0.95 (BV is 3.80) back, so it actually costs you $3.15 for 6.75 oz. of toothpaste. I paid $1.73 for 13.0 oz. of toothpaste. Your $/oz. is $0.47 mine is $0.13. In this light, are you going to accuse me of being a J.O.B. mentality person, or is the toothpaste more concentrated per oz.?
“And people always talk about "then they have to just sell to themsleves". Do you guys even understand how the plan works?? That's the point, you're Supposed to have personal use. And people keep throwing out "the 70% rule". You guys are lost. As long as your doing 50 pv to members or clients, or $100 to M/C, or 10 seperate M/C orders, you meet the requirement put in place by the FTC to receive credit for downline volume.� – If your main goal is to sell to yourself, you are in violation of the FTC. The 70% rule is REQUIRED to be legal, though it is often not enforced. In 2002 or 2003 I think, the company made it policy to report volume to comply with the law. What happens if the distributor does not meet requirement? The money goes to the next person upline who HAS qualified. In my LOS (since the group wants to show how good they are to everyone), they pass the money right back down to the person so they don’t get discouraged and quit. Observe my above example on just how much you can save buying at wholesale. You can find a few products that give you the opposite results of my above, but I looked at EVERY PRODUCT I USE in my house and I found better prices at the local store.
Prasad: What is it about the question, checking the business out before you got in, don't you understand??
Quit diverting and answer the question or PLEASE SHUT YOUR BIG TRAP, after all it's the only thing big about you, you little man.
Hey, why don't you take your rantings and tell it to yourself in the mirror. That's where the blame belongs!
Sharp business man there huh? Never checked it out!
It's all about value and being up front, Tony. Sure I spent money on my college education, but I got value out of it, both experience and monetary. I would not have my job without my degree (it is a requirement), but above and beyond that, my college years were great. I met several life long friends, and even though I've graduated, I'm still an active alumni. I'd say my college education was money well spent.
In contrast, how many people make money from AmQuix? We know from the SA440 thta the average IBO is making only $1,400/year. We also know there is a huge standard deviation, and if you throw in every 1 in 14,000+ IBO's who are actually diamond, the IBO on the street is making even less then the $1,400/year, since the diamonds skew the average. Now, throw in tool costs, travel costs, babysitting costs, etc., and how many IBO's are profitting? If tool costs are just $100/month, the answer is very, very few.
There are the notable exceptions, and they are the ones at the top of the pyramid, and those who focus intently on retail/eschew the tools. These IBO's have lower costs and make a lot more on their PV/BV. Unfortunately, they are few and far between.
Now, back to those at the top of the pyramid. They can make a decent living from AmQuix, but not the lavish lifestyles they show. The money has to come from elsewhere, and that is from you, Tony, buying their tools, that mathematically, give you a tiny fraction of a chance at succeeding and matching their success.
And I can guarantee you it is much more then $100,000/year. Have you ever seen proof that $100k is the number, or are you taking your upline's word at face value again without doing any research or fact finding on your own? Try reading Ruth Carter's book, "Beyond the Smoke and Mirrors." She had access to a diamond's business books, and for sure, that diamond took in more then $100k/year in tool money. Or how about doing some math on your own. A tape, at most, cost $.50 to duplicate, and CD even less. How many tapes/CD's does your group purchase, and at what price? Multiply that number by cost of each tape/CD, and again by $.50 (high cost of duplication). What's the difference per week? Per month? Per year? Still think a diamond makes just $100,000/year on tools?
Do similar research on functions. Call the hotel you are staying at and do some research. Tell them you are looking for rates for a conference in similar size to your AmQuix function and need a similar amount of rooms for the same time of the year, next year, that your current AmQuix function is now on. Also ask how much renting conference facilities are and if the function is in a stadium, ask about who gets what cut of parking and concessions. Now do the math. You know how much, per room, your diamond is charging. You now also know how much the hotel charges. What's the difference? And what about the facilities? Are they free if the conference rents a certain number of rooms? Are you paying to rent something that the hotel may give away for free? How much net is the diamond making off the conference? And ask yourself again, is $100,000 a good estimate of what a diamond makes off of tools?
The answers are out there, if you are objective and do the research. Talk to "negative losers" who quit the business and get their opinions. Ask them why if failed for them. Read the information on the "bathroom walls" and ask yourself if you see anything similar going on with you and your LOS. Last, ask yourself this question. If Amway/Quixtar were such a great deal, how come 2 out of every 3 IBO's quit a year, and there hasn't been a single diamond in the past six years that started in Quixtar and was never in Amway? And if this is true, can the 2-5 year plan be reality? Of course not.
“Oh, and Prasad, if you payed attention to the plan you'd see that new diamonds make $150,000 from Quixtar, and $100,000 from "the training and support system". Which would be tools, seminars, etc, its right in the plan!! By the way, while I don't have his Sch. C - I do have a fax of 2 checks from my upline Diamond which shows in 1 month he made $124,000 just from Quixtar - no BWW money. But I won't bother getting copies of his other checks, which are about $50,000 each month�
I guess that would depend on the plan. The one I saw they wrote $250,000 FROM QUIXTAR. Not one EVER told my particular organization about the tool money. I don’t particularly have a problem with making money on education, they should, but when their profits from tools are over 50% of their income, and they don’t disclose that, then we have a problem with ethics. This $124,000 check you mentioned, was it the November check? That is when the once a year bonuses are paid. I know of an emerald who received a $35,000 FROM QUIXTAR in one month due to bonuses. I stand by my statement that you CAN make money from Quixtar, but at the expense of others.
“Someone mentioned something about people at the top making money off people at the bottom?! What the heck do you think happens at every company in the world!! Your company makes $$ off you!!Your CEO make more than you and your boss!!, and your boss makes more than you!! And what are the odds of you being the CEO?? Guys this isn't "tapespeak" - its frickin common sense! You are NEVER gonna make more than your boss or CEO, (Well are you??) but in this business, you CAN make more than the guy "above" you. It happens ALL the time!!�
Yes, your company may make money off you (Mine doesn’t, I work for a non-profit division), my boss makes lots more money than me (He is much more experienced, I don’t have a problem with this either), But the difference is that I go home at night and get to live my own life. The AQMO’s display over 95% of the behaviors typical of cults. One of those is that you never get to think for yourself or do what you want to do. You check upline, conform to the tapes, all in the name of ‘learning what he knows so I can have what he has’. That is called mind control.
“I love the one guy (Xana) when he said - "I took the business very serious, showed several plans..." What's that!! Several?? You showed several plans?!? How bout several plans a month? Or a week! My sponsor probably shows 7 plans in 5 days, thats why he's @ 10,000pv, in Platinum Qualification, and in his 20's!�
Sorry I did not specify a timeframe (I should have) but my upline told me not to cross-council, so I guess you will never know just how many I showed. By serious, I mean I did what the organization told me to do. I qualified for the ‘special’ leadership meetings, etc. I left for several reasons, mostly because I was called out of the business for a particular ministry that it was the business or God. Remember the “rich young ruler�? The parable is NOT about rich people not being able to get into heaven; it is about placing your worldly goods over God. I gave up all to follow God, most people in the business will not and it is a telling sign. It was only after I left that I noticed the cult-like behavior of the group. You see, no one in a cult knows they are in one, so as long as you are deluded into thinking you are not in one, you will blame me for trying to ‘steal your dream’. I have a problem: I can’t find anyone else with a dream as BIG as mine, but there are more avenues to pursue it than this business.
“That's like saying "I took college very serious, went to several classes, but ended up just spending $12,000 and didn't really think it was worth it. What else have you failed at? Tell us about how you never made it to Eagle Scout!? Or never played college basketball, or never got your black-belt. I'd like to hear about how none of that worked out for you either, and who's to blame.�
For the record, I completed college (in case you think I am a total loser; in fact, I finished in four years, with two minors and a recognized honor, and paid cash most of the way.) and have succeeded in MANY endeavors, including but limited, to other business ventures, graduate education, and a large ministry.
I'll point out that there are 10 profits from Quixtar. They can be found on Quixtar.com
The ones I recall are:
Preformance bonus (PV/product sales)
Leadership bonus (platinum legs)
Ruby Bonus (15,000+pv paid monthly)
Emerald Bonus
Diamond Bonus
Quixtar Growth incentive
Diamond growth incentive
and more that I've forgotten.
Very fun numbers to play with if you consider the DGI and QGI with relationships to volume growth, you could be looking at 500-3million dollars a year extra income depending on how big you grew (if you went founders)
But I wont play math games here :)
DaddyMustbewrong> Frankly, I was surprised when I saw blogs emerge as an internet force. I have been online since 1996, actively involved in technology and the latest online trends. One day I noticed Google's search results started sucking and bringing up all these people's opinions...
And I discovered the largest movement in internet history...blog sites. Frankly, I think they're a scourge. If you want to voice your opinion, do so the traditional method. I don't want to hear that Joe Blow from Timbuktu thinks XYZ (we'll call it Quixtar) is the most amazing thing on the earth.
Imran> Seriously? You don't like public opinion and just corporate styled opinion. Hmm I have an offer you can't refuse.
1) Stop reading it? Any body forcing you? Or harassing you in malls or street?
2) I gotta ask: You like Monarchy? To keep ppl in there place and don't let them comminaKate? In Democracy person matters.
3) Not every one can voice their opinion as freely in Traditional method. I've tried that. Blog is easy. If some one likes to read, they'll read. If don't, they won't. I really don't care.
See my comments in Journalism vs. Blogging.
Anyway, if blogs doesn't matter (if you are saying that) you got nothing to worry about right?
Ok moving on:
DaddyMustbewrong> I'd rather see search results from reputable news sources, business communities, political organizations, corporations, etc.
Imran> Great! Good for you. Here are the reputable sources
NBC Dateline
http://www.answers.com/topic/quixtar
http://tinyurl.com/8chdm (it's ZDNet, old yes)
http://www.consumeraffairs.com/online/amway.htm
http://www.rickross.com/reference/amway/amway77.html
And some more.
Amquix.info is not a blog. Do you like it? It's quite traditional.
Ok the more reputable source. Ever heard postma memo? Quixtar OWN internal memo? Is it reputable?
Hey M&M, Why don't you crawl back to the rat hole you came from? Your presence is an insult to humanity. I am not one of your cult members to control. Shut up you loser!!!
Run back to your upline and ask him whether you can post here. Or just listen to one more tape that would put you 'over the top'
NBC Dateline was a special interest report, which, by the way, was not representitive of all of Quixtar, nor all lines of sponsorships, or even QMOs.
I just got a message on kate the other day about a guy without "the system" in Alabama who went 1000 pv his first month (mostly retail) and now in his fifth month is nearly 6,000 pv. Without ever going to an open. He had one, fully stocked worldwide information system.
His group is foaming at the mouths with retail. Never been to a function, not on tape of the week, etc.
There can't only be one out of all of Quixtar who has done that.
DaddyMustbewrong said:"I just got a message on kate the other day about a guy without "the system" in Alabama who went 1000 pv his first month (mostly retail) and now in his fifth month is nearly 6,000 pv. Without ever going to an open. He had one, fully stocked worldwide information system."
In 12 years, this is the first time I've ever heard of any 'non-system' IBO being 'edified' over Kate.
That's nice that YOU got this message. We didn't. Our WWDB Diamond upline (direct sponsor!) cut us off his Kate distribution when we asked to be taken off S/O. If you ask to be "off system" the upline cuts you off. So much for tools being optional. Yeah, they're optional, but so is having your upline talk to you.
TD
Xana,
I'm glad you finished college and got something out of it. So did I. I never said you didn't, I was simply making a parallel to what you said about "taking it serious and showing several plans."
And I don't think you're a loser. It took Larry Winters almost 6 years to go Platinum, maybe quitting at 3.5 was a little early. We'll never know. If this wasn't your calling, that's cool. But I don't think you need to call the people that are successful in this "immoral", cause I beg to differ.
Also, you stating how many plans you showed is not "crossline counseling". Telling me how many I should be showing might be, but not saying "I showed 3 plans a week". It's funny that you think stating your work ethic is crossline counseling, so you can't do that, but you have no problem basically telling us all its a scam.
You don't sound like too bad of a guy, maybe you just didn't meet the right people or weren't on the right team. No one should ever have to choose between God and business, you can do both.
And people (I see) don't put the "things" before God. I know people who build it for that reason. (You attrack more bees with honey than vinegar.) I can look past all the fancy cars and houses. Just cause someone drives a Ferrari doesn't mean they're materialistic. You make more decisions based on $$ when you have less versus having more. You can give more to charity when you make $500,000/yr versus $50,000/yr.
I apologize if I hurt your feelings, if this truly wasn't for you, I support your decision to serve others some other way. But they're are bad people in all walks of life. Just because you encountered people who seemed money hungry or un-Christian, etc. doesn't mean everyone building this is that way. I've experienced quite the opposite.
To the person hung up on price. Yes our products Are more concentrated. Not to mention, no one ever became rich from discount shopping. If you owned a Men's Warehouse and Gentry's was having a sale, you'd be an unwise business owner to shop at your competion to save a few bucks. That be like driving up in a Chevy to your Ford dealership. No credibilty.
It takes work guys, bottom line.
Xana, did you have any active legs, anyone in your biz, in any form. I know people who have quit with a nub or 2 of a leg, and then that person got motivated and went Platinum!
I heard an Emerald talk once about how when he first met an Executive Diamond, he was so negative, he told the EDC he was being brainwashed! But he got around the team and got started, but 2 years in he almost quit. But his upline said "fine, quit, but when I drive each of your legs to Platinum, you'll never see a dime". That motivated him to stay in and actually start doing the system, 4 months later he was at 7500, and 2 years later he & his wife were Emeralds!! The 2-5 year plan isn't from the day you sign-up. It's from the day, you start consistently doing the plan, the way its taught. The 9 core steps. Check with you upline...
~~ and the AMBOT Tony rambles on~~
"I kind of figured out you really don't have the 10k to lose. So the bet is off."
I think it is a lot easier for Prasad to come up with 10k than it is for Michael to forge his Schedule C to look favorable.
Way to puss out Mikebot -- this is EXACTLY what we have come to expect from you and your cult pals.
Yeah, way to go Mikey. You too Big M. Tony, I'm not sure if anyone even reads that crap you write. I sure as hell don't.
Mikey, you say that it's always the same tired old arguments. Did you know the earth is round? I guess if it's the truth, it's just a tired old argument. By your reasoning, anyone who has ever said the earth is round is bringing up a tired old argument.
And for being (self) coined the Cliff Clavin of the internet, you sure seem to have a hard time contacting someone through email.
Or perhaps you or your upline don't have the jam to, because your upline isn't willing to prove their ridiculous claims.
Have you even broached this subject to your diamond?
Prasad,
You CANNOT answer why you never checked out the business before you signed up. So you deflect by spouting your mouth off.
You mean nothing to me. I really don't care what you say to me.
Obviously I should feel honored as you save your biggest hate for me it seems.
Everybody now knows you cannot answer my charge. You've been exposed for the phoney you are.
Grow up.
Prasad-
Thanks for the compliment. :-)
That just validates for me what I am doing is right! The more negative you are the more right I am!
Prasad:
You're falling into the trap of permitting the quixbots to anger you, rather than just letting their hilarious tapespeak arguments speak for themselves, and then just simply picking them apart (I actually learned this trait from lawdawg).
Also, don't forget that these gentlemen have received a thorough brainwashing at the hands of the criminal kingpins' MO systems, and thus really shouldn't be criticized for resorting to their anger and hate filled replies in response to the true facts that are brought up by the critics on this forum.
I'm sure that Tony is really a nice guy, and would actually sound like the very intelligent individual that he truly is if he could ever get himself to put down that cup of kool-aid and rub the concentrated SA8 soap out of his eyes. I've got to be honest, I thought his last response to me was pretty witful (although he's nowhere near as witty as myself).
Good news... Yesterday one long lost friend of mine called me from NJ. We used be roommates in college back in India. He is in Kumar Sivaramkrishnan's group. He called me to sign me up and guess what. I got him out of this scam. It took a long and persuasive talk to convince him to see this 'business' for what it is. He hasn't succumbed to kool-aid completely. This long weekend I,personally, am going to his house and faxing his resignation paperwork to QUIXSCAM/upline.
Yahoooooooooooooo! I am helping people get out of this scam one person at a time.
Eat that you Ambots!!! :-))
Btw, M&M, you are a freaking imbecile. Your arguments hold as much value as the scum you are.
Michael, goodluck with your scam. But mark my words, one day you are going to regret the decision to participate in this fraud.
MLM,
Thanks for the tip. I will keep my cool from now on.
To eminem, tony, michael, ryan h., daddyiswrong and all the other quixbots following this thread:
Guys (and gals):
You folks also seem to be getting a little hot under the collar yourselves. I invite all of you to go into the critics section of the QBlog forum and read through my "quixtar jokes" thread.
I can honestly say that even those who are positive on the quixtar opportunity - like you people - would still get a good chuckle from reading it.
To the pro Quixtar people. It is not our job to convince you that your(and I use that term loosely) business is bad. There is not some technical detail that can be argued over that will sway either side over. If you think that we're wrong or right, it doesn't really matter, at least to me. Don't get me wrong, if you're being hurt, I have empathy, but I know that you are not going to stop this behavior, short of an intervention or self realization. So why lose sleep over it. If you don't like me for stating my experiences, I really don't care.
The reason I can at least empathize is that I remember thinking the way that you do. That I had the ultimate business, life mission, Christian walk, and network of friends. I felt that others outside the business were missing out and that those that turned it down were losers. At the time I was of the mindset of "Don't confuse me of the facts, my mind is made up." I put my faith in the system and the group of men I thought were leaders. I didn't think they were perfect, I expected them to make mistakes, but not to intentionally lie or deceive. Unfortunately everyone that I trusted has lied or have been deceitfull.
If you don't believe that there is money in the tools I honestly feel sorry for you. I remember when they told us that there were some price breaks. I thought that it was odd that they were even bringing it up. And that the other systems (nonWWDB) were basically bad and greedy and ripped off their people, but WWDB was on the level and wanted to publish the price break levels, but Amway(now Quixtar) would not let them. I'm paraphrasing of course, I cannot quote what Greg Duncan said at the time, it was some years ago. Of course I find out that all the systems say that. If and when you build this business to higher levels you will share in that tools money. You will find that you will make a good deal of money in the tools, you'll get a chunk from all tools flowing in your business, kickbacks for function attendence, Kate, and wwdb internet. So when you take that money that is coming from your distributors that look to you for freedom take a good look at them. Some of them have spent more than they can afford to attend a function, forgone bills, destroyed their credit, lost their homes. Do you encourage them to spend more on tools, or do you realize that you are effectively preying on them? If its the former and not the latter, then I feel sorry for the damage you are doing to others.
If you do realize it, remember that there are many others that have woken up to what has been happening and that you are not alone. Don't feel you have to stay in and make the best of a bad situation because of what others might think or that you are a loser. To roughly quote Rich Devos " What gives anyone the right to call someone a loser.."
Prasad,
Things got heated in here and we started off on the wrong foot. I'd like to call a Gentleman's truce to this bet thing. It was silly and pointless, but I can understand your opinions. I am not here to argue although most people try and bait me to start an arguement. I am here to learn and I do take the opinions to heart. That is why I highly respect Qblog's website as he is biased and knowledgeable about this business. While I do agree with you about the tools business, for me it's not a valid reason to quit the business.
I also hope we can come to appreciate each other's understanding about the business.
Is that fair enough?
Mikebot:
The fact that you don't put your cash where your money is says EVERYTHING about you.
You are a person of no honor, no substance and no integrity.
If people align themselves with you they are either morally bankrupt and/or astronomically stupid.
Em, Tony, & other ambots, I hope you see what your 'coworkers' are really like!
Michael,
I have nothing against you or any Amway distibutors.. One of my close friends got stuck in the scam and he stopped talking to me because I didn't join his business.
I can give you statistics about his work ethic. He shows 5 plans a week. Drives about 600 miles a week and buys any tape/CD/book that is putout my his upline without question. Never misses a open/rally/big fuction. He stopped taking good offers in his IT career because his upline advised against it. He has been doing this for 9 years. Deeply in debt. His biggest bonus check is about $1500 in one month. His finanical position is pathetic. Personal life has gone to hell.
Still he thinks one day he will become a diamond and make millions. If he makes millions, nobody would be more happier than I am. But at what cost? He lost his prime age of his life contacting people in malls. He spent early years of marriage chasing this mirage called 'Diamond Distributorship'. Never even took his wife out once on a vacation. Raj Shah, Kanti Gala should be ashamed to ruin lives like this. I am sure my friend is not the only guy who is in this position. How many lives should be ruined so Kanti Gala can buy one more mansion to flaunt? How many people should be in debt so Raj Shah can buy a Ferrari?
Thats why I am so upset about this Kinpins controlling someone's life. with the help of a few friends back home, I have made a consious effort to keep this scam from my town in India. When I completely eradictate this disease from my town, I will produly post the name of my town.
We view the situation differently about tools.
But like I said, one day you will wake up and realize the mistake you made. Even if you become diamond, you will be taking money from people who can't "afford' this business. I do not use this term 'afford' losely. The tape/function money your Diamond enjoys coming out of someone's mortage and some kids college education. I am sure your diamond sleeps well at night happy in the knowledge of robbing someone else's hard earned money.
I can go on and on.... keep my email id... pls mail me after 5 years if you made diamond or quit the business. My money is, you like countless others, on quitting the business.
Goodluck and god bless.
"Btw, M&M, you are a freaking imbecile. Your arguments hold as much value as the scum you are."
I just asked you a question, Prasad. Can you answer it? I gotta put up with this nonsense, it would be so much easier if you could examine you own self-loathing. I asked you if you had checked this business out before signing up. If that is so hard to answer without flying off the handle, you need help. Lots of it.
"You're falling into the trap of permitting the quixbots to anger you, rather than just letting their hilarious tapespeak..."
(if I'm doing 'tapespeak' here I'll resign immediately from this)
"...arguments speak for themselves, and then just simply picking them apart (I actually learned this trait from lawdawg).
Also, don't forget that these gentlemen have received a thorough brainwashing at the hands of the criminal kingpins' MO systems,..."
(really?? I though I was being paid to do this. or that I'm being told to write this by my upline)
"and thus really shouldn't be criticized for resorting to their anger and hate filled replies..."
(this is WAAAY beyond the pot calling the kettle black)
"in response to the true facts (yeah right) that are brought up by the critics on this forum."
that was so profound I almost fell over in laughter, mlmscam. Sometimes your logic is so bad you can't see your a$$ from your elbow. Whenever I bring up legitimate challenges to you guys, previously with rocket and now here, you CANNOT answer. Instead I get your canned repetitive, deflecting and rude comments. I'm not surprised. You guys are angering yourselves (see my comment above). Some of you really need some deep counseling with all your self-loathing. And see?
The fact you cannot answer at times is not surprising, as is some on our side. But what seems to differentiate the two sides is the fits of rage which occur on yours as opposed to the responses like Michael's here.
Even I didn't call anyone a 'name' here.
M&M,
you can never understand the points that we are trying to make. It takes a man with moral conscience to understand my point about tools. You are nothing but a con artist trying to BS your way on this board. Anyway, go scam someone else into this QUIXSCUM. Why are you hanging on these boards?
I am honestly just floored at the stupidity of people not understanding that the tools are the business.
Why is that so hard for you IBO's to accept?
If you have figured it out, then why is it so difficult to acknowledge?
Is it:
A) You don't want to believe it?
B) You know it's true but don't want to admit it?
C) You don't believe it?
Honestly, it's got to be one of those things. It's NOT a tired old comment, it's the TRUTH!
Are you pro QUIX just wired differently? Have you lost all hope that you could never become successful without Amway?
Are you really that far gone?
Seriously. I mean it, because I don't really find it funny anymore, that you guys don't seem to realize that the $$ IS THE TOOLS!!!
It's progressed to the point of me considering it disturbing behavior. Don't take offence to that, because I am being sincere. It's just weird.
Dan- great message! People get out when they are ready. Kind of like an alcoholic hitting bottom and having a spiritual experience.
I know that when my wife and I quit after 5 years, we left 19 in personal width behind. I explained to them all why we were leaving the business, and did not try at all to force them to quit. I think that back then, there was MLMsurvivor, and I also became friends with a crossline Diamond who quit for the same reason (the abusive tools system).
I still believe that as a sales model, MLM can work - but the prosumer model is inherently unethical, at best. Unique products with retail demand can probably be effectively marketed through MLM, depending on the people involved.
Some would disagree, and I respect that - it's just my opinion.
Dan- what LOS were you in?
Thanks Keith. I think that example would describe our experience. We pretty much hit rock bottom and could no longer lie to ourselves. My wife saw the truth first and did not try to force me out. We were in the Kummer(now diamonds) org.
Dan-
What was your pin level?
About where do you live?
You can email me using the address on the posting name hyperlink.
Thanks!
eminem:
I sincerely appreciate your feedback on this matter. I think that deep down you are an individual with a great mindset and a very pragmatic way of analyzing things.
Once you wake up, you are going to make a fine addition to the critics team.
In the meantime, I would like your feedback on my quixtar jokes thread that I suggested you visit in my last posting. Have you by any chance glanced at it yet?
Sincerely,
mlmscam
from my great pal eminem:
"Some of you really need some deep counseling with all your self-loathing. And see? "
I just got released from Bellevue hospital, which is one of this nation's top psychiatric wards in this country (USA). Isn't that good enough for you and the other bots?
from rocket:
"I am honestly just floored at the stupidity of people not understanding that the tools are the business.
Why is that so hard for you IBO's to accept?"
I think that these remarks are a prime example of what many of the quixtar critics say; folks who are very knowledgeable concerning the shameful business practices that quixtar condones, yet who fail to recognize that IBOs are NOT stupid people. They are just in a brainwashed state where their true mental faculties are in some sort of hibernation mode, waiting to blossom out once these individuals can get some sort of inkling about how greatly they are being deceived by their involvement in the quixtar "business" opportunity.
Heck, I would dare say that some of them are even smarter than us.
I just want to clarify, I'm not saying the people themselves are stupid.
The fact that they don't recognize that the tools are the actual business is a stupid notion, in my opinion.
I'm not really into the name calling thing.
Hope that clears things up, and if someone thought I meant IBO's are stupid, there you have it.
BUT, I also believe it's a stupid decision to remain involved, despite having this knowledge.
Okay, the bots want to talk about the facts, so lets stick with them.
Let's break this down one step at a time.
For any of you IBOs out there, is it an unrealistic assumption that you wish that everybody that you sponsored into your organization could make at least a few dollars every year from moving products throughout their own groups?
mlm, while you are good, your kung fu is not as strong as mine.
To answer your question, uhh yeaa! of course I want to see my downline make $$, I've got one guy who has a company buying the gift incentive albums. They've bought almost $6,000 worth so far. I know a girl who's made $70,000 in 2 years selling the albums! My sponsor has a guy on his team who has a few bars carrying XS, and his last check was for $800, only been in a few months!
This is a business, you can focus on one product, more than one, or on building a team, its up to you!
I know there is profit in the tools. Just like when you buy a CD at Media Play for $24, there are LOTS of people making money on that! Only you can't go back 5 months later and try to get your money back for that Britney CD!
Guys, the tools are Optional, plain and simple. I wasn't buying tools for my first 7 months, all my upline still helped me! If you don't have money for tools, don't buy 'em! But if you're buying new releases from Blockbuster every month, and buying tons of CDs at Media Play, then you're not being real smart or honest, are you? Hey, if thats what you wanna do, fine. But you gotta know what you're trying to accomplish.
Should colleges feel bad that people go into debt for YEARS just to get a degree with NO guarantee of a job? And just so they can get one that pays $40,000 instead of $30,000?? THINK about that!!
Knowledge is worth money. If you were Required to buy tools, it'd be one thing. But you're not. (Only colleges require you to buy books, written sometimes by the guy teaching the class) The tools are there if you want them, and yes, of course people are gonna make money on them, just like Usher does when you buy one of his CDs.
Its up to you what you wanna do, if you want the knowlege its there. If not, hey, your call. But when you go to college you buy the books and go to the lectures, right? But you chose to be there for a reason. And its your right to quit too. Doesn't make college bad or a scam, even though they make ALL their money selling books and knowledge... oh, and the sale of tickets to sporting events that the players don't get any of, (but the coaches do). Man, I'm seeing similarities...
Rocket,
I can understand how you feel about the tools business and I see your points. Some of them I do agree with. But my point is that is STILL not a valid reason to quit the business. If the tools business isn't congruent with your goals and dreams or your pocketbook- then my point is- don't participate. You can all make a concious choice of what you can and can't do in this business. If you are cajoled into doing something that you absolutely can't afford, or absolutely don't want to participate in then I agree with you 100%- get out.
The tools business is just an external motivator and doesn't last in the long term. What should last is an internal motivator- your whys.Set true goals for yourself and go for the gold. Most leaders don't look at the external motivators- they look at the internal motivators or their drive.
Do you see my points?
"I just asked you a question, Prasad. Can you answer it? I gotta put up with this nonsense, it would be so much easier if you could examine you own self-loathing. I asked you if you had checked this business out before signing up. If that is so hard to answer without flying off the handle, you need help. Lots of it."
I know it's not directed towards me but more than likely his answer will be similar to mine and countless of others out there..."NO" there do you feel better? Let me ask, when you first join the business who are the first ppl they tell you to conact? ..well I can't wait for your response so I'll answer k? friends and family..well I'm not too sure about you but when a family member or a good friend tells me that the are in this great business blah blah blah, my first instinct is not to run out and say your a liar? I'll look at the facts "As presented during the plan" and review from there, this doesn't take into consideration all the lavish talk of thousands that you will make in 2-5years working part time 15 hours per week and heck I'm human and a greedy mo-fo some times, when someone tells me I can make an extra 2 to 3k in 15hrs per week at the only cost to me is about $200, not to mention all I need to do is change my buying habits, well then what's the harm??
And thats when the perpetual spin starts, the friendships, meetings and oh yes the tools..Tony mentions that they are optional and we all know that famous saying "and so is success", I'll tell you if I had a nickel...what makes them optional, the fact that you didn't buy them in the first 7 months? oh right that disclaimer thingy that we've already established is legal rit for discard purposes only...please refer to my first response here, the tools fall into the same category, your friends and family wouldn't hurt you now would they??
Nice try Tony.
You picked up right away where I was trying to lead the discussion to, that it's impossible for more than only a small percentage of IBOs to make money with the current quixtar practice of "buying from your own store and teaching others to do the same". So how do you respond? Right away you fabricate stories to imply that everybody in your downline is concentrating mostly on doing retail.
Sorry, but I've been across that one before. Why don't you just admit that you try to recruit others into your group in order to reach the desired goal of having a high percentage of products moving through your organization being ultimately purchased - if not always consumed - by profit thinking IBOs versus retail customers outside of the business model, who aren't looking to make money in the distribution equation.
Well, try_mark really lived up to his name, he tried, but really didn't disprove anything. Guys, if you don't want to buy a CD, DON'T! Thats your call. How simple is that? The whole BWW system is optional. Bottom line. You don't have to do sh#t! I think it'd be dumb though to never go to your weekly meeting, cause that's where you get training on "Product of the week", and training from Rubys, Emeralds, etc.
If that's your only gripe with the business, like someone else mentioned, thats not reason enough to quit. They don't force you to buy it!! If you think the CD's are a rip off, don't buy 'em, or just buy the ones you like. Powerwave, Perfect Business, and Private Franchising I think are some awesome CD's. What's so hard about that.
Heck if you think a product is over-priced, or isn't a value, don't buy it! My sponsor told me my 1st month, "you can just buy what you like." I SAVED money when I bought my lawnmower and my cell phone.
I could've paid $399 for my Olympus camera at Circuit City, that was the price on the shelf. But instead I bought it @ CircuitCity.com (thru Quixtar) paid $351, and got the credit for the volume, which helped me reach a higher bonus bracket.
I'm able to sell an energy drink (that actually tastes good and is good for you) to a bar or health club, and create income!! I can buy protein bars for the same price I was buying Other protein bars, and get a check the next month!
I just bought a pair of Adidas shoes for $50, that now I can say, "Oh these, I bought'em thru my business" "Oh, my cellphone, got it thru my business". "This energy drink? bought it thru myself. 10 cents cheaper than Redbull, plus I get paid to drink it".
So you're saying I should have payed $399 for my camera instead of $351 - you're saying I should've just got my lawnmower at Sears for $239, instead of Quixtar for $192 Including shipping!! It's better to buy protein bars & energy drinks at GNC or Kroger and put the profit in Their pockets, instead of mine, is That what you're saying? Cause that's what it sounds like you're saying?
Because Greg Duncan makes money when I buy his CD, I (and everyone) should quit this business?
Yea, I'll get right on that. :(
mlm?! Dude, do you understand what fabricate means? I thought you were cool! Now you're calling me a liar?? You really think I made up those stories about things my downline and crossline are doing in the business? Dude, you need to check out the facts at s#ckad!ck.com!!
(ooh, he's feeling That one)
In all seriousness, if you don't believe me, that's cool. Whether or not you believe me, is not a determining factor on the check actually showing up in my mailbox.
You can say I'm only after people getting in to create volume, so I make more money. 1st of all, thats what Walmart and McDonalds do too, this IS a business. But I do like helping people too, and I DO want to see ALL people succeed. I've done things to help Crossline people! And honestly, volume is volume. Right now I AM focusing on retail volume, such as bars, restaurants, fitness centers, small businesses, etc. But I still make calls to people, and see if they're interested in the opportunity, you CAN do both. Thats why they call it YOUR business.
I think you Can make money in "retail" (like to businesses), and you Can make money simply building a network. I think its smart to do both!
1)Does it make sense to buy toothpaste at $6.25 so you can get 19 cents back when you can buy Crest for $1.70 and save more than $4?....to normal ones it doesn't, except to morons like Tony.
2) Does it make sense to buy epsring water treatment system for $600 where you can buy a 1 Pur water treatment system for $50 bucks? Not unless you are brianwashed imbecile like Tony.
3) Does it make sense to attend a FED and spend $500 on ticket, hotel, car rental etc and buy a CD from the same FED for $15, after 3 months? It makes sense if you are as stupid as Tony.
For normal people there is life, for cult addicts there is quixtar...choose wisely.
praSAD, are you just "not smart", or are you just a blatant POS liar?? Our toothpaste is not $6.25. Why do you have to over-exaggerate? The last function was $90 for the ticket, and I paid $22/night (my share) for 2 nights ($44 total, not assuming you could add that) and yes I got a bed. I also chipped in 5 bucks for gas. Let's see that's $139 bucks total (if you don't trust me, I can show you my calculations) a FAR cry from your $500!?
Oh, and p'sad - now I see why you failed (thats if you ever even tried) you were always 3-4 months behind, because you were waiting for the CD! Hey, I've got a great stock tip... but let me tell you in 3 months!
oh, p'sad - you forgot a couple-
Does it make sense to pay $200,000 for a Ferrari, when you can buy a used Camry for $800?
Does it make sense to pay $1.8 million for a mansion, when you can live at a food shelter for free?
That's what came to mind when you tried to compare eSpring to ??
BTW, do you have any comments on my points below, about actually Saving money on the things I listed, or are you gonna just misquote our prices and discredit yourself? I mean, either way is fine with me. :P
Tony, if your entire premise for joining Quixtar is to save money, I believe you made a mistake. A good way to see if you are making money is pick a set of about 30 items you buy regularly (basket of goods) from Quixtar and add up the price you pay, minus the bonus you get back. Now, go to a place like Target or Wal-Mart and price out a similar basket of goods. Figure the price using total cost and unit cost. Now, which is less expensive?
As for large ticket items, like your camera or lawnmower, the power of the internet is to be able to shop all over the world for the lowest price. Sure you saved money shopping at Quixtar, but did you search the entire net for a lower price? Chances are you didn't. And it's not that hard to do. Personally, I'm a fan of Froogle, which is Google's shopping site. I used to use Yahoo's portal. And you know what. It doesn't cost a dime to search. Why don't you post the model number of your camera and lawn mower and give me some time, and I bet, even with shipping included, I can come close to matching or even beat the price you paid!
Last, the concept of paying yourself versus "making Sam Walton's kids richer" is a red herring. It really doesn't matter where the money goes. All that matters is what is left in the bank account after my purchase. Say, for an easy comparison, if I shop from the Me-Mart the price is $50, and I get a 10% cash back bonus. I spent $50, got $5 back, and in my bank account there is now $45 less. Now, say at the Wal-Mart, the price for a similar/same item is $40. Sure I get no bonus back, but there is now only $40 less in my bank account. So, who did I make richer by shopping at Wal-Mart?
Maybe Sam Walton's kids, but who cares. I'm now $5 richer for doing so, despite not getting a check from Wal-Mart. The reality is, when you buy from Quixtar, you make the De Vos and Van Andel kids richer just like shopping at Quixtar makes Walton's kids richer. The difference is, if you are an IBO, you get a portion back of your purchase as a bonus. But if the price minus bonus is more expensive the the price elsewhere, it's not a good deal.
Hey Tony
How about you send me an email with your password to Quixtar so I can see the lawnmower price myself?
I don't believe you saved that much, especially after shipping.
ah, yea sure rocket, let me send that right over to ya!? Look, I paid $180 for a Yard Machines lawnmower, self-propelled, with a mulcher. The cheapest one at Sears was $239, and the cheapest at Walmart was $214. Shipping was $11.95, with tax it was like $206 total! Not to mention if I had bought it at Walmart I still gotta figure how to fit it in my car! I liked it showing up on my porch, and I saved money!! If you don't wanna believe me, fine! Don't believe me. Don't believe any of it. Stay skeptical. Just work your job for 45 years, and know that you never "got taken". (Well except for your job.)
And dmm, your argument would sound perfect if there was no bonus bracket system, and everyone always stayed at the 3% bonus, and there were no Growth bonuses, or Ruby, Q-12, Emerald, etc. bonuses.
I didn't join Quixtar to Save money, I got involved to MAKE money. There's a key difference. When you started college did you expect to stay a freshman your whole life? Or when you started your job, did you expect to stay at your starting salary forever? Didn't you plan on succeeding (even though others didn't)? I plan on being successful at this.
Soon, I'll spend about $500 a month thru Quixtar, and be getting a check from them for $5000 every month! Why? Because I will have developed a Business, including retail volume! I don't expect it to happen in years 1, 2, or 3 but since I have a work ethic, and the right mentality, I know one day it WILL happen. So I'm not worried about saving a buck on toothpaste, which works out to like a penny saved per use.
I'll continue to spend about $230-280 a month on the stuff that I want and need. I don't buy stuff that I think is too expensive. I can do 150+ points on the stuff I was buying anyways for about the same price.
So, if whats left in the bank account is what matters, then I think I'll follow what my Diamond does: Spends $$ on stuff, and gets a check for $50,000 each month.
Hey Tony idiot, I am sure you are getting paid to post here. You are nothing but a worthless piece of shi*&*t.
I paid $125 for my mower at Home Depot. Plus no shipping and no creepy cult-like associations!
Are we really moving from the false-income-claim-debate (Mikey lost) to the false-value-of-AmQuix debate (Tony will lose)?
This is all so predictable..........
Rocket-
You do remember that you can do a search on quixtar without a supporting IBO number don't you? ;-)
The lawnmower Tony is referring to is in the store for more section.
DF, I think you need to lay off the XSmarguarita's- your an ornary drunk dude :-)
Tony my man:
No, I'm not calling you a liar - just brainwashed. You are unintentionally once again giving everybody here misinformed information resulting from the mental boundaries placed upon you by Q's exclusive kingpin society.
Case in point: You brag about the fact that you brought a "Yard Machines" lawnmower (a brand that I never heard of) for $180.00, versus a $239.00 model manufactured by Sears - totally ignoring the fact that Sears has always been at or near the forefront of the home appliances market for the last 30 something years. What's the real value that you're getting with the Yard Machines brand?
But hey, let's run with your argument that it's only the price that counts when purchasing home use products, and that quality doesn't count for anything.
Tony, go take a look at Sears.com and click on "lawn & garden" and then "mowers - rear bag". There you will find that their low end craftsman model version of a lawnmower sells for $159.98, while you can get a 20" blade mulcher for $10.99. This means that by doing the math, the sears mower comes out to a grand total of $170.97, versus $180.00 for your unproven "yard machines" brand.
Next, let's go take a look at Walmart.com. Go into the garden & patio section and look up the lawn mowers available there. Dude, the SAME EXACT YARDS MACHINE MOWER is being sold there for $99.88! (minus the mulcher which again only amounts to about $10 to $15). This means that you were ripped off to the tune of $65 to $70!!!
Okay Tony, now that you've been made to look foolish, I'm ready for your next two- faced quixbot maneuver of switching gears and making the silly claim of "well, nobody ever said that this was a buyer's club. This is a business after all, and the bottom line is that we are here to make a profit."
100957C QTY ADD TO...
GLISTER® Advanced Toothbrush
List Price: $13.20
Exclusive. Unique. Patented.
DAMN! $13.00 FOR A TOOTHBRUSH!!!
BEND OVER, TONY!
try_mark:
thank you for your courteous reply. I do appreciate some thoughtful discussion on the matter and I'd like to respond in a like manner.
I understand your point but ultimately, one is still responsible for their decisions, however strong the social and cultural pressures this business presents.(And yes, we'll talk about that too.)
I can pretty much tell you that many more IBOs are unsuccessful at getting family and friends to join than those that do. Family members will often get very skeptical of the plan and may try to protect or challenge the new IBO. Same with friends. They can be the most negative of all, as they don't want anyone upsetting their social hierarchies.
But when they, the family and friends, do join, then yes, you are generally right. Trying to analyze the business unemotionally becomes difficult, as the problem often stems from peer pressure rather than upline pressure. Who wants to be left off the team where many of their friends are, the ones who are "moving on"? Tapes are bought, functions are attended, not for business sake but for social pressure's sake. And all for the wrong reasons at this point.
My view is, if you are not going to build the business gung-ho at this time, don't get heavily involved in system tools. I believe it even gives the upline Platinum, Emerald or Diamond a clear idea who really is serious and where they can focus their assistance. So don't take it so personal if they aren't communicating with you as much after you go off standing order.
But to direct one's frustration on anyone coming on these threads from the pro-Q view is really not where the anger should be focused.
The bottom line is, people are responsible for their own actions and decisions, however deceived they believe they got. I mean, don't get mad at ME, I didn't sponsor any of you. Talk about it, for sure. Try to find positive solutions for yourself and the business--if you have ideas how it can be improved. People read this and might even change some things, if it makes sense and is constructive. But nothing will change because of rantings.
"GLISTER® Advanced Toothbrush
List Price: $13.20
Exclusive. Unique. Patented.
DAMN! $13.00 FOR A TOOTHBRUSH!!!"
ummmm, excuse me... that is a 4-pk. The wholesale cost is $9.75 (4 pk).
mlmscam,
I can understand your point about the pricing- but when you look at the other websites do you factor in the PV/BV discounts? I did a relative price comparison on my blog with XS and Red bull. I went into wally world and priced a 4 pack of red bull. XS is $0.30 per can CHEAPER than Red bull. That wasn't even figuring in the discounted PV/BV yet. Not to mention the fact that red bull only has one flavor- XS has 5.
Just a clarification on "Yard Machines" - is made by MTD - usually a "house brand" for Wal-mart, etc.
It is a lower-end quality mower, so if you have a smaller yard (less than 1/2 acre) it would be fine.
I did search for the mower on Quixtar - I could only find a Poulin for 330.00(retail) plus 65.00 shipping - plus I would guess you would have to put it together. (I did a complete search)
Sears usually has a flyer in our Friday paper so I'll check out what they have.
Interesting.
Well, here's what I found - for a 22 inch 2 in 1 rear bag/mulching/self-propelled mower
Sears - Craftsman (higher quality) 4.75 hp 154.99 in store - (one can fold the handle and easily put it in a trunk) already assembled
All the MTD's had 4.5 hp engines
Home Depot.com - MTD 159.00 online + 56.00 shipping (70 lbs)
Home Depot store - 139.99 already assembled with fluids and they will bring it to my house for free (within 15 miles)shipping beyond that was 19.00 (in store/in stock purchase only)
WalMart.com - MTD 133.00 online + 36.00 shipping
I'm just finding it hard to swallow only 11.95 shipping for a 70-75 lb. product. Still, if it was that, it's quite the deal.
Still, you need to assemble it, then get the fluids and make sure it works.
So, it looks like Tony spent (not saved) a bit more money, but not outrageously more - and if he found value in the method he chose, that's all that matters.
Food for thought.
Upon further review - all the shipped mowers do come assembled.
My error.
Why do Ambots need lawnmowers? Most of the people I know in AmQuix pay someone to do their yardwork (and watch their kids) so they can hustle soap and attend functions.
That's another monthly expense for this BS.
And, if you jokers are gonna retire in 2-5 years, a lawnmower isn't a good investment, as you will have more important things to do than mow lawns.
First of all, I asked my dad about the Yard Machines before I bought it and he said it was a reputable brand, so I'm sorry if you've "never heard of it". I'm thrilled with it. I use the mulcher even with high grass and it tears it up, I never have to use the bag. The thing has never given me a problem!
Also, I am simply telling you the facts of when I bought the mower. I didn't buy it yesterday - I bought it over a year ago! I'm guessing prices have changed because when I BOUGHT it, the cheapest mower Walmart had was $214!! I don't know how else to get that thru your heads! I didn't want a $99 push mower with just a bag. I wanted one with a mulcher, and self-propelled. The cheapest one WHEN I BOUGHT IT was $214 at Walmart and $239 at Sears! So I'm afraid I DID save money!
Shipping with Quixtar is dollar based. So the $180 item fell into the $11.95 shipping bracket. Believe it or not. But I don't expect you to know that, cause people don't know a lot of things when there not actually involved with something.
mlm, was your lie deliberate or are you just not as sharp as you'd like us to think. Loaded question, I know, but You put yourself there. I know em pointed it out, but I just have to say, you're right, $13 is too much for a toothbrush, but since some of us can read "4 pack", I could do the math and see that with my price it was $2.44 per brush, and I found that reasonable. It hurts me to say it, but now what are You going to say that you've been made to look foolish.
This IS a business, and I do want to support my products, but within reason! As one guy said, he "thought" I could have bought the mower elsewhere and saved $10. Well guess what, at the time, those prices were accurate, so I did save money. But even if I could've saved $10 elsewhere, 10 bucks isn't worth me not being able to say, "I bought this mower thru my own business". Being a business owner, That has value.
But when I was looking for a punching bag I looked at Dicks and found 1 I liked for $99. The same one was $10 cheaper at one of our partners stores, however since it was a Partner Store, the PV wasn't as high, and the shipping was Weight-based and came out to $70! So I ended up buying it at Dicks.
Shocker! you mean you can actually do that? Yea! We're not brainwashed! Some of you just think we are because we go to conferences and buy tools. Maybe its some of You who need help. You think ALL people in the business are the same just because you had 1 friend who pushed too hard for you to come to a meeting, or spent money on tools and then never made it.
I had a friend go to college for 2 years, spent over $9K on tuition, around $800 on books, and then decided he ddin't like his major, so dropped out and was 2 classes from having his Associate degree. Did he get refunded? No? Is he living on the streets? No! He has a good-paying job, and lives in a house honestly nicer than mine. He's not in the business, but guess what, we're Still friends!! But the reason he's not in is because he's never come to an open meeting, and he has preconceived notions about "MLM businesses".
That's too bad, because the people who can look past the hype and see this business for what it is, and aren't afraid of putting in the effort can actually make money at this.
But go ahead and keep misquoting prices, making assumptions, and being skeptical. I'm still gonna succeed with or without you.
DF,
we need lazy criticbots like you to mow our lawns for us. Oh wait- you have that drinking problem. You are not allowed to run any machinery under the influence of alcohol. Like I suggested yesterday- lay off the XSmarguartas.
Uh yeah
"Networking or Retail. What ever way you choose"
Actually, you smart boy, you don't have a choice in order for it to be legal. You do need to retail.
QBlog, however will you go on? According to Ryan, entrepreneur of the year, your site sucks!
Typical.
Posted by: rocket | May 16, 2005 7:36 PM