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May 9, 2005
Monday Reader Mail: 42
By QBlog in Reader Mail
I generally don't edit Monday Reader Mail but the length of today's installment demanded that I make some minor corrections and style edits to preserve the intended flow of the email. My comments appear at the end.
name: Scott N.
date: Mayu 6, 2005
message: I feel compelled to share the experience that I had last night with Quixtar. Let me begin by saying that to this point I have not made a decision about the relative advantages/disadvantages about this company. I was however a little disappointed by their approach to me. I spent many hours in Communication Studies courses while completing my college degree and these classes helped me to see what these people were trying to do to me. I would like to share this information with others so that they may be aware of what the initial meeting will be like or so that in retrospect they may have an understanding of manipulative tools that were used on them.
To begin, when I was approached the offer was made for the "member" to pick me up, this was done so that the "guest" will sacrifice their freedom to leave if the meeting becomes uncomfortable or they decide it is not for them (thankfully I passed on the ride). Once arriving at the meeting location we were quickly ushered through a twisting path of hallways at the facility (in this case a hotel and convention center not associated with Quixtar). The trip though was longer than it needed to be and I feel that this was also done to confuse the "guests."
Once we (the guests) arrived in the meeting we discover that everyone there was dressed in suits and ties (or comparable formality for the ladies) while all the guests were dressed casual to say the least (blue jeans and T-shirts in most cases). This is used to make the guests feel out of place by being underdressed. At the time that we walked into the meeting we were separated from the members that we knew and were placed in the front row of the meeting. This was done to again make the guests feel out of place and to stop them from leaving in the event that this meeting was not for them.
Next we were introduced to our speaker, John Doe (have no idea what his name was), who was of course the owner of a multi-million dollar business. He began by finding things in common with each of the guests, this is done to make him be perceived by each guest as much like the individual guest, making his message be received better. This process was used mainly in the beginning of the lecture but was also applied through the entire talk.
Once the speaker began, he promised to take 45 minutes of our time (which was in fact 2 hours) to tell us about his glorious experiences as a business owner (by the way the name of the company, Quixtar, did not come up until the last 5 minutes). Throughout the lecture he informed us of the glory of his company and how poorly we were all doing because we had regular jobs and not one of these companies. The main focus of the lecture (approximately 1.5 hrs of it) was focused on how bad we were all doing and how great he was doing.
Some of the manipulation devices he used during his lecture were as follows.
Get them saying yes, he would get on long lists of questions to which the answer was yes (from his point of view) and would be supported by the members saying yes behind us as every answer and then end with something like "Wouldn't you want to own one of these companies?" This was done to convince the guests to follow the group.
Also he would keep falling back to how much money he has while feigning humility, this was an attempt to establish himself as an expert while also keeping likeability.
He dropped names of very large companies who were involved with this and informed us that "We don't need to research the company because those companies all did their research and they have more resources than we do." This was again an attempt to keep people from making an informed decision on their own and an attempt to site credible experts. He also said this in a demeaning manor as if patronizing those who would doubt what he says. This was in a parental "because I said so" manner which is another attempt to take control of the encounter.
When he finished his discussion of why we could not possibly want to go against his wishes he began to get the real nuts and bolts of the company and how it works. The only problem is this part of his lecture was filled with loose ends, incorrect math, and contradictions. He began by breaking down the returns that could be expected from this business. However when beginning calculations he did not remove the start up fee (which was cut in half over the course of the lecture). When this was pointed out to him, he was not happy and patronized me directly for caring about a measly 300$ (which at this time was down to 120$). He then went on to display the amount of one time bonuses plus expected returns, which were then all lumped together to develop an expected yearly salary. This number was then used to make projections for coming years incomes (even though it included one time bonuses). In the middle of this he stopped to discuss a points system which was never truly defined or explained. I personally believe this was used to confuse the issue of the math that was being used, sort of a bait and switch approach to the topic.
At the very end he informed us that this was an "elite" organization and he would not let just anyone join. Talking about how he would only accept those people whom he felt it would be safe to have around his family. This was done in an attempt to pull all the other manipulations together. If you have accepted him as similar to you, allowed him to be your friend, and viewed him in a parental manner then it is the next logical step that you would want him to like and trust you.
Once this lecture was completed we got some "success stories" about how great it was to own your own company and how silly we all were to be willing to get up and go to work for someone else. At this point in time they called a "brief intermission" with more to follow. People from the back of the room started advancing on the guests and pinning them in small groups so that the guests would be exposed to additional stories about how great the program is.
Seeing what was happening I exercised my opportunity to leave before I too was collected in the one of these small pep rallies. As I said in the beginning, I personally have not made a decision about this program. I will be conducting my own research on the matter, in fact that is how I came to find this website, but I feel that it is important to be up front and honest with people at all times in all things. I do not feel the meeting was honest and to that end puts these people on an uphill path to convince me.
I felt it was important for those people who were exposed to this sort of meeting without the
benefit of training in the field of communications studies to have a full understanding of what was
done to them and for what reason.
Well, if you got through all that then you'll probably recognize some of the things Scott mentions. Like Ryan, my journalism training helped me to recognize some of the manipulative marketing tactics used while "showing the plan" and probably explains why I was never impressed with Quixtar or its IBOs. Have you recognized similar tactics at Quixtar meetings? Have you recognized such tactics relating to other businesses and if so, which types?
Comments
I have to ask you a question Qblog,
How is THAT manipulative? That is a basic textbook MLM plan, many companies show that kind of board plan. Besides, its nothing new that we haven't heard before.
That's pretty much every MLM meeting I have been, not only Quixtar. Although Quixtar have been the most ....motivational or insulting?
Also, they dance around how bad every body is doing and go through numbers real fast. All the while keep saying when you'll do it you'll understand. In Quest / PASE they even tell go through the numbers part fast.
In the answer of the question "But I don't understand". MLMers says "In the begining I didn't understand also but with the time you'll"
So, both MLM and prospectee end up doing the business without understanding it? Interesting.
I also would LOVE to know where that was and what organization was running it because I've also been to several different Opens and it was NOTHING like that!! I'm going to presume you're telling the truth and not just trying to bash Quixtar by pretending to be unbiased and "just sharing a horror story". First of all, at every Open in every city I've been to, the guests are told to dress professionally, its not required to attend, but we're all told to tell your guests to wear a shirt and tie, we don't want any guest dressed down or Especially feeling out of place. The guests sit in the front, cause thats where the guest speaker and board is!! Why would you put guests in the back of the room, you want to be able to see don't you?? And we tell our guests, the meeting will be about an hour, to 1:15 minutes, and then we stick to it. Also our room is easliy accessable, but if you're at a big hotel and the hotel puts them in a room down the hall, how are you gonna blame the IBO's?? And none of the speakers I've ever heard in ANY city have ever put down people and said how bad they were doing and how great he was! That's insane, how is that gonna win people over. Pointing out that some jobs overwork and underpay people is not bashing YOU. And just because the speaker says he has more control of time and money thru owning his own business is not saying he's better than you. And I've never seen guests get "pinned in small groups". If my guest wants to meet the guest speaker, I'll take him up to talk to him, and if other people are waiting to talk too, we might have to wait in line - so maybe thats what you saw as "guests being trapped". You're experience sounds NOTHING what I saw the first time I was a guest, or the second time I went, or ANY time I've gone since. But then again, my friend Told me to wear a suit, he told me it would be about an hour, he told me the cost to get started was $125, but then about $250 total down the road, to get my BWW start-up materials (all optional) I opted to get it, just like I "opted" to by my required text books in college. So I apologize that your experience was nothing like mine. As I hope you know, Quixtar is nothing but a supplier, that has many different organizations utilizing it. Just because one group ran things in this manner doesn't mean all do. My experience has shown that most DO NOT work in this fashion and I've traveled to at least 5 different opens in 4 different states, all part of the BWW team. Just as there are diffents teams in the NFL, just 'cause one is run poorly doesn't mean they all are. It doesn't mean the NFL is not legit. Keep that in mind when deciding. I'd like to see this posted, if this is truly a fair and unbiased site.
Thanks,
-Tony C.
How is this manipulative, Michael? Because the meeting is meant to squash all doubts and get people to stop asking questions and sign up right there and then. And most good, legitimate businesses don't work this way. In fact, most businesses, if they are looking for associates/franchisees, will give you all the information, answer all your questions, and tell you to take your time while doing your own due diligence. In contrast, in this described meeting, the speaker told everyone major companies did the due diligence for everyone and between their research and his experience, you don't need to!
And the reason MLM and especially AmQuix meetings are run this way is they don't want you to do your own research/due diligence. Because if you do, you will run into sites like this one, mlmsurvivor and of course Scott Larsen's AmQuix.info site. They don't want you to get a complete picture, because there is a lot of potential problems when you do so. And while they have set answers for everything like the internet is the bathroom wall crap, the reality is a lot of people won't sign up after reading everything that is out there.
In contrast, I've been advising a friend about opening up a business for the past several months. His first contact was in February, and just now he is finally done with his due diligence and is ready to make an informed decision. I believe he will sign up. In comparison, how many potential IBO's do this amount of research before making their decision? The answer is very few.
Dmm, once again a poster who doesn't have the facts. I don't know what meetings you guys are going to, but we say at the beginning of each "Open" - tonight is strictly informational, you can't get started tonight, you can only get information. They're told to simply get back to the person who invited them, and get a Lit Pack, or more info if they're interested, NO ONE is intimidated to make a decision - thats nonsense. It doesn't happen in the BWW system. You need to found where a BWW meeting is held, preferably on the Winters team and go there! These problems don't exist at our Open Meeting! Go ahead and do research, but consider the source. And yes, its true, anyone can post anything on the Net. If while taking a piss you read "buy XYZ stock, its going up, you deserve what you get. Like that kid who bought some stock and then started a buzz in a bunch of chat rooms that it was going up, which actually cause it to rise, and then sold it all, and got busted" Yea thats was definitely wrong, but how stupid do you have to be to make financial decisions based on what you hear on the Next?? So don't soley base a Quixtar decision on the stuff you read here. As I've stated, when I wanted info about careers or colleges, I talked to people Doing It! Not the people that quit at it. Before I got started with Quixtar I was skeptical and read all this stuff on the Net, but I kept an open mind and looked at what it truly offered, and saw it as a legitament business. Network Marketing is a legitament business, thats why theres so many copy-cats. If we weren't legit, we wouldn't have partnerships with Circuit City, Disney, Barnes&noble, and the 3,000 other companies affiliated with Quixtar, we wouldn't be approved by the BBB, and Federal Trade Commision. We wouldn't be the #12 website of ALL retail sites, and we wouldn't have made $4.4 Billion in the first 5 years!! I just don't understand how people can ignore these facts.
>> I have to ask you a question Qblog,
How is THAT manipulative? That is a basic textbook MLM plan, many companies show that kind of board plan. Besides, its nothing new that we haven't heard before.
Michael,
It's manipulative in the same way mainstream advertising and marketing is manipulative. The described pitch uses some of the standard marketing tactics learned in Advertising 101.
However, it's potentially more harmful than traditional advertising/marketing because it's generally disguised as something else. Most marketing is easy to identify but when it's described as a "unique business opportunity" and the people pitching it don't fully disclose their motives then you're dealing with something a bit more insidious than simple marketing.
The reader is warning people to be careful in such situations. It's good advice and I've said that same thing numerous times. Don't toss out critical thinking just because you're in a room full of folks who say you're "swell." The truth is, that no matter what they say, they're trying to sell you something while telling you that they're not.
A Tip For Tony
Use that Return key buddy. Breaking up your text will make it easier for people to read.
Don't sweat it, IBOs are notorious for writing their ramblings in one, solid block of illegible text. You're not the first.
I have mixed feelings.
I agree with Imran Aziz "both MLM and prospectee end up doing the business without understanding it"
David my uncle in law almost had me. I was about ready to sign the paper work yesterday when I actually read the fine print. I decided I would sleep on it. We were scheduled to meet tonight and I called the meeting off because I'm not sure I should try Quixtar again.
I was an IBO a few years ago. I never did anything with the business. I'm not saying that you can't I'm just saying I did not.
If you don't plan on going to meetings and finding others to meet with you than this is not the plan for you and your family. It will take time and money.
I did meet a lot of very nice people and learned about marketing through my experience. I considered this education for life. Learning something new is always good. Do you have the time?
Even after being involved with Quixtar in the past and listening to what David and others have to say I still don't understand the business fully. There is a lot of gray area that is not covered. Questions are not always answered directly with a rock solid answer. I get the feeling that most people join not knowing what they are required to do.
Note to Qblog:
Thanks for the writing tips there chief!
I'm so glad you can point out the importance in "hitting the return key".
I do apologize if one long paragraph is hard for you to comprehend.
Perhaps thats why you pointed out my lack of spaces, instead of actually replying to my arguments.
It would have been more appropriate to just call me a "poopie-head".
Please let me know if I had any speeling errors :) Now I've gotta go show somehow how to create extra income with this $4billion FTC & BBB approved scam!
Best regards!
Tony,
I didn't respond to you because I didn't read what you wrote so I have no idea what I should respond to. I refuse to read content that is in ALL CAPS and in one giant block of text (for the slow-witted, I'm not saying Tony's comments were in ALL CAPS, just adding another one of my personal rules to the public discourse).
My time is too valuable to waste trying to wade through such poorly styled content.
While I've never seen many of the sorts of things, such as waiting for the last 5 minutes of the plan to mention Quixtar or trying to get someone to get driven to the plan. In fact, in many of the boardplans I've been to, both housemeetings and open meetings, the presenter has started out with a quick thumbnail sketch showing the differences between traditional distribution (i.e. the broker-jobber-wholesaler-advertiser-retailer path) and the Quixtar-type distribution (i.e. manufacturers -> large clearinghouse/warehouse operation -> IBO -> Consumer) and showing how, no matter where you are in the whole situation, CEO of the General Motors or Bob the Janitor, you're a consumer. What Quixtar allows is the opportunity take advantage of not just the consumer aspect of distribution, but to also take advantage of some of the actual distribution aspects and then asking prospects, where do you see yourself fitting in?
At that point, I've seen presenters ask those people who just want to continue to be consumers to set up a time to meet with the person who invited them to go over some products and an incentivized shopping service and leave, since the rest of the presentation probably won't interest them since they've indicated they have no interest in running a business. The rest of the prospects who have indicated that they want to see the rest of the plan stick around, see the plan, and are then invited to take home an information system if they're interested in more information. At that point, if they want more info, they go home with a system and a time set up for a follow-up in, preferably, two to four days. If they don't take an info system, set up a time anyway, if the prospect wants to, to take a look at some of the products so that they can examine the member and client options available to them instead of everyone being pushed to become IBO's.
I don't know about anyone else here, but I have no interest in using the "sneak-it-up-on-them" approach of talking about this opportunity for an hour and then going, oh, and by the way, it's *cough* quixtar *cough*. That's ridiculous. If you're going to chase any sort of opportunity, be it network marketing, MLM (and yes, there are differences despite the blanket label of "MLM" that people tend to drop over anything that involves people referring people), insurance sales, etc. - anything where you are able to sell and also set others up to sell, have some f''ing character and let the person know exactly what you're talking about to them. Don't insist on them being IBO's.
YOU ARE THERE TO MEET THEIR NEEDS, not to get them to meet you at yours. Anyone who's ever either raised children or watched their parents raise their younger siblings understands that the quickest way to make someone rebel and quit is to force them into something.
So the guy doesn't want to be an IBO. So what? Does anyone else remember that Quixtar requires CLIENT VOLUME? One of the primary reasons so many people quit the business is because they're told by upline to accept only two answers: 1. yes, I want to go business builder all the way or 2. no, i want nothing to do with it.
NNNGN. That drives me nuts. IF you show this business correctly and offer people THE ENTIRE PLATE OF COOKIES - IBO, Member, Client AND Flat-Out No - and let them choose where they want to be with the understanding that they can change that at any time, I have very rarely shown a plan where I have ZERO result.
Do I get a lot more retail clients than I get IBOs? For a long time, yeah, because I talking to everyone. Which is fine, I was learning how to prospect and learning how to meet people at their needs. I was talking to fast food workers and people I ran into in waiting rooms, etc. No idea if these people were anywhere near the desired criteria of "at my ambition level and above." So most of the people I showed the business to couldn't imagine themselves making $60K a year at a job working 40 hours a week and, as a result, cojuldn't possibly imagine themselves making that working about 1/3 the time. So I got a lot of clients who are now hardcore XS Energy clients who are referring new clients to me all the time.
You make money in this business two ways: 1. create volume for the manufacturers with which Quixtar contracts and 2. develop leaders. If all you focus on is #2, then you're fooling yourself.
Volume is created in three ways:
1. Clients
2. Personal Use
3. Downline volume
If you don't think you can do #3, for God's sake, stop whining about how you're not a millionaire yet and start USING YOUR OWN PRODUCTS and learning about them and learning to show other people how great they are. Are other people going to get excited about soap and toilet paper? Probably not.
But can you get excited about XS Power Nutrition and the Artisitry line? YES. Then go get some clients.
Quit whining about how "I can't imagine anyone wanting to do this," or "It's just a giant scam."
If all you're focusing on is getting downline and getting them to buy, buy, buy, then I agree with you - I can't imagine anyone wanting to do this and I can see exactly why one would mistake this to be a scam.
And by the way, if your upline ever encourages you to (a) don't talk with the corporation (Quixtar), (b) cut your cable and stop reading newspapers, etc, (c) don't get to know crossline leaders (there's a difference between developing friendships with and mentoring with crossline) or (d) not to worry about retail and just sponsor people or flush 'em, then, for God's sake, RUN. Call the corporation and tell them your experience and ask them to please direct you to a line of sponsorship that keeps consistent contact with the corporation and will help you grow both personally and professionally.
If your upline is obviously trying to keep downline small and just buying things, call shenanigans on them. Don't work with someone who tells you they're helping you and is really limiting you. Call your platinum (if your upline has allowed you contact with them - if they haven't, again, RUN. A platinum should be in consistent contact with ALL of the downline in their personal platinumship) and complain, let them know what's going on. If you get the same response, get in touch with your emerald or diamond if you can. If you still can't, call the corporation and complain.
This is an awesome opportunity. But like with any opportunity, there are people who are screwing it up big time. People who haven't figured out that this business is about serving people and not just getting downline.
Sorry for the rant, but I'm always irritated to hear how horribly some people are just raping this opportunity raw for themselves and so many others who have the common sense to do it right and teach others the same. The more I hear about other lines of sponsorship from my own, I now understand why so many other people cast accusations of "it's a cult" or "it's a scam" or "it's a (insert slander here)" - and I shake my head, wondering, why don't these people just work the friggin plan the way it is clearly outline to be worked?
Then again, I guess that you have to consider that most business plans are general outlines of how something works and are open to interpretation. Just because it made perfect sense to me doesn't mean that it's going to make sense to someone else seeing it from some sort of moron who interpreted the plan in a completely opposite manner.
Anyway, that's all I have to say about that.
Wolf, nicely put!
qblog: sorry to duplicate, but I thought you should be enlightened (though I doubt even Wolf's blog will change your negatively biased opinion.)
Dmm, once again a poster who doesn't have the facts. I don't know what meetings you guys are going to, but we say at the beginning of each "Open": "tonight is strictly informational, you can't get started tonight, you can only get information."
They're told to simply get back to the person who invited them, and get a Lit Pack, or more info if they're interested, NO ONE is intimidated to make a decision - thats nonsense.
It doesn't happen in the BWW system. You need to find where a BWW meeting is held, preferably on the Winters team and go there! These problems don't exist at our Open Meeting!
Go ahead and do research, but consider the source. And yes, its true, anyone can post anything on the Net. If while taking a piss you read "buy XYZ stock, its going up", you deserve what you get.
Like that kid who bought some stock and then started a buzz in a bunch of chat rooms that it was going up, which actually cause it to rise, and then sold it all, and got busted. Yea thats was definitely wrong, but how stupid do you have to be to make financial decisions based on what you hear on the Next??
So don't soley base a Quixtar decision on the stuff you read here. As I've stated, when I wanted info about careers or colleges, I talked to people Doing It! Not the people that quit at it. Before I got started with Quixtar I was skeptical and read all this stuff on the Net, but I kept an open mind and looked at what it truly offered, and saw it as a legitament business.
Network Marketing is a legitament business, thats why theres so many copy-cats. If we weren't legit, we wouldn't have partnerships with Circuit City, Disney, Barnes&noble, and the 3,000 other companies affiliated with Quixtar, we wouldn't be approved by the BBB, and Federal Trade Commision. We wouldn't be the #12 website of ALL retail sites, and we wouldn't have made $4.4 Billion in the first 5 years!!
I just don't understand how people can ignore these facts.
Tony, it is you that have some "facts" wrong. I suggest you stop listening soley to your upline and visit some sites I suggest here.
First off, the BBB and the FTC don't "approve" anything. The BBB is a clearinghouse of information. All one needs to do to become a member is pay a fee. The BBB does not condone nor approve any business, but simply collects information, both good and bad about a business, and attempts to settle any disputes. You can go the BBB site and see for yourself. http://www.bbb.org/
The FTC also does not "approve" businesses. They may approve mergers, but there is no stamp the FTC gives that says if your business plan is acceptible or not. Again, visit the FTC yourself, http://www.ftc.gov/, or call a local office http://www.ftc.gov/ro/romap2.htm and ask if there is a FTC approval for Amway/Quixtar. I guarantee you they will tell you the don't, but might reference the 1979 case against Amway in which Amway was found legal because of end consumer retail sales and the buy back rule.
Next thing I'll address is to why third party companies might align themselves with AmQuix. The answer is simple. Why are these third party companies like Disney, Circuit City, et. al. in existance? The answer is to make money. What does AmQuix offer? About 300,000 IBO's who when they shop online, are dedicated shoppers on the AmQuix site. What does it cost for these third parties to be affiliated with AmQuix? Not much, since they just create mirror web-sites with meta tags to follow where the traffic is coming from, and every sale that comes from AmQuix, the third party gives a small portion to AmQuix. For third parties, AmQuix is just another form of distribution, just like having their wares in their own stores, Wal-Mart, or the local grocery store.
As for legality, the third party also has a level of insulation. Remember, according to the FTC, AmQuix is legal if there are retail sales. It's not the job of the third party (Disney, et. al.) to enforce AmQuix's own rules. It's AmQuix's job, and as long as the third party sees the rules in place and gets assurances from AmQuix the rules are enforced, if anything ever happens to AmQuix, the third party can claim ignorance. It's akin to that corner grocery store running an illegal drug operations out of the back room. The store may also legally sell Coke, but Coke wouldn't be held responsible for the illicit drug ring, unless of course, the Coke company had knowledge and profitted from the selling of drugs. Same seperation exists with third party companies and AmQuix. In short, the third party due diligence doesn't go as far as needed for an IBO, because there is a different standard.
Now, onto not talking to people that quit and/or failed. I think you are making a huge mistake by doing this, Tony. Perhaps these "quitters" have some insight onto why they failed and either can offer you some sage advice, or at least give you potential warning signs to look out for. To ignore these people simply because they failed is to potentially miss out on very important information. After all, those who ignore the past are doomed to repeat it! And for the record, the first phone call my friend who is looking to join a legit business opportunity made after meeting with the corporation was with a person who failed to see if he was/could be different, and or there were critical mistakes the "quitter" made that he would attempt to avoid!
Last, if you do talk to the quitters and get their story, you will find it doesn't matter that much what line you are in. They all operate in a similar matter. So one group lets you sleep on it rather then have you sign up right then and there. Are they any more successful in creating diamonds? How about emeralds? Or how about having profitable IBO's?
The best measure of a business should be the bottom line. And the question I ask of all IBO's is how much did you profit last year? Tax time just passed and what was your profit on your Schedule C? Now ask yourself, if your business showed a loss, how long are going to go before you profit, if ever? And if not, are you sure AmQuix is the business for you?
Tony, you say:
Network Marketing is a legitament business, thats why theres so many copy-cats. If we weren't legit, we wouldn't have partnerships with Circuit City, Disney, Barnes&noble, and the 3,000 other companies affiliated with Quixtar.
Affiliated? What I understand is that these companies are simply taking advantage of another place to offer their wares and/or services. Why wouldn't they allow Quixtar to sell their stuff, especially when they know that AQ IBO's are as committed to buying from only "the Business." We have farmer's markets every fall in the parking lot of K-mart in my area. Are the farmers "partners" with whatever-mart? Does whatever-mart endorse the farmers and their products? No, this is simply a gesture to support farmers and help the community. Meanwhile, the farmer get to take advantage of the established business.
We wouldn't be the #12 website of ALL retail sites, and we wouldn't have made $4.4 Billion in the first 5 years!!
Of course they rate so high in retail sales. With all the IBO's that have lost critical thinking skills and are programmed to only buy from "their company," why wouldn't AQ have high retail sales? I am curious to see how much of that profit is from retail/client consumption.
Wolfhayden, You are a consumer. Don't forget that. You have just chosen to purchase your products from Quixtar.
For anyone else out there: Are there any tapes out there from AQ that show an IBO in their first 2-3 years what profit they are making? My mother in law has been in for about three years and still doesn't know if she is making a profit. I'm trying to get her to realize that if this is a true business, profit is usually considered an important factor.
I think it is funny that Tony(-bot) accused DMM of not having all the facts--that is just too precious.
Tony, we are all waiting for you to provide your Schedule C to show how much loot you are pulling down.
I am sure you won't, and you'll get all defensive about it, and ensuing arguments will flourish....you're just another Ambot on the Blogger debate forum...nothing we haven't seen before here.
Point is - you're not the first, you won't be the last - I just hope you don't drive yourself into moral or financial bankruptcy.
I know a lot of people who have.....
I'm an IBO. I shared this concept with a new person the other day and she went to the internet to research it. I suppose this is one of the sites she stumbled upon.
I don't blame her, it's the first thing I did when I was shown the business plan. I read dozens of articles from dozens of sites. I was amazed at all the opinions about it.
Not sure why I'm responding but there must be a reason. I do presentations in the form of Board Plans.
The length of my presentation is about 1hour to 1 hour and 30 minutes. Of course the unpredictablility of meetings is amazing. Many times you have a curious type that asks tons of questions that can lengthen the plan, pets can wander in and out, phones can ring. The point is that distracitons can happen.
My goal is to present a real quick birds eye view of the plan and find out if this person is looking for a legitimate idea in how to make some money. If they are lookin for get rich quick I find out real quick because I'm very upfront about this. Honestly, I'm hesitant to sponsor this type of individual because they will misrepresent this and creat more negative based web exposure.
The business is legitimate. The people are legitimate that I work with. I cannot vouch for any others and would't pretend to say that there aren't faulty IBO's in the world of Quixtar. It's unfortunate because it is a good organization and it has changed not only my focus in life but also my mind about people.
I love people big time! It's a tough thing for me to put into words, but even when someone is not interested in getting involved in this business, I usually still connect with them and we create some sort of a friendship. It's pretty cool. I've developed that through working with incredible people. This is priceless to me.
If you came to my plan you would know that I beleive in this. You would get the sense that I am sincere. You would appreciate my sense of humor and approach. You would probably get to meet my wife. Finally, you would get the opportunity to further your exploration with me and my company. I wont push you. If it appears that you are interested, I will attempt to set up another meeting with you to follow up.
Finally, you will know that it is "your" decision and it is your life. I'm a father of 3 and and a Husband. I have a full time gig and so does my wife. I don't want to waste your time, and I assure you I wont let you waste mine.
This is business. We can create a friendship. But your first step is doing intellegent research.
Will you take the advice of a guy that went to a meeting and had an opinion?
Will you take the advice of someone that used to be involved but hated it?
Will you take the advice of someone that used to be involved that loved it?
Will you take the advice of someone that is involved that loves it?
I would ask you to not do any of those, and don't take my advice. If you have seen a plan and you can look past trying to be sold, (because, of course you are trying to be sold DUH) then do some research from credible sources, make a decision and move on.
You don't need to make it a life mission to discredit it or credit it for that matter.
Get involved in Quixtar.
or
Don't
Don't make it more diffucult than that. This is an option. Not a debate.
Don't listen to me though. IF you've read this far, you're at least literate and you can make your own choice.
Don't judge me please. I promise I don't judge you.
Good luck with your life, this is just one option.
Jake,
You said: "I read dozens of articles from dozens of sites"
Please provide links to those articles.
Thanks.
Tony: DH is in BWW. The author of the letter that QBlog quotes in his article does a fine job of describing what goes on at these meetings. Yes, BWW does it, too.
The old "not in MY line of sponsorship" rallying cry is just that - OLD.
PS- what do you think about Bill Britt's recent shenanigans (Peggy needing to file for a restaining order and separation, the other woman, etc)?
I PROMISE that BWW is the WORST of them all. This is well documented. No other Quixtar group is more like a cult. I would love to debate Tony one on one.
Isn't it amazing how much clout this young man, Qblog, derives from being the guru of Quixtar objectivity through this site.
Qblog reminds me of one of those power hungry AMO kingpins who get so much of a charge out of being important in at least some peoples' eyes.
If Qblog were to start his own legit Quixtar business with little tools, etc...would the Kool-Aid drinking critics...Critbots it you will...join him?
Looks to me like Qblog offers a very cheap form of therapy for quitters of a very so-so opportunity. If that's your intention, you are to be commended. It may very well be what the doctor has ordered.
Clout? What clout? Did you mean gout perhaps? I do have a bad case every winter.
You know what I really get a charge out of? When all my Critbots gather outside my house with candles chanting "All hail QBlog - mighty purveyor of Quixtar BLOG." Of course they all bring me cake and tea because I'm so freakin awesome.
And to be honest, my therapy ain't all that cheap. I charge by the hour and the rates just went up. No more therapy for you DMM, you haven't paid your bill.
Qblog:
Isn't it great to have all the Critbots following you around? They come to the airport to pick you up when you come to speak to them and when you come to a function in town they feel honored to drive you around. They hang on every word you say like it is the key to their future success. Plus they buy all the Qblog materials from your website that they can get other places for 30-60% less than other places. They buy you flowers and give you special presents since you have sacrificed your time to be with them.
Qblog you must be a cult leader!
You better do a lot of research! It's going to cost you a lot out of your life and don't let anyone tell you different. It's better to learn from other people's experience than having to find out on your own.
This is fun- gone a couple of weeks and a couple of new 'bots crawl out of the woodwork! And a critbot to boot!
This is precious.
Bottom line: Am/Quix is out to make money.
They do it through (not very)independant reps (I used to be a real independant rep in electronics- a COMPLETELY different gig)
Those (not very)independant reps make money through retailing (hard, usually one time sale with crappy margin) or by recruiting sub-(not very)independant reps. Harder still, but at least repeat, and if you can get them to duplicate... well, it IS MLM after all... You must move volume to make money.
And don't you 'bots DARE tell me you don't recruit.
You recruit using the power of the group, with techniques proven to work - Marketing 101,102,201 and 202, plus some upper level and even graduate level techniques. I disagree with Qblog on his point that most marketing is easy to identify, but that's a discussion for another time.
If you don't sponsor, you don't (you cant) win.
Argue about the finer points; you might as well argue about how many angels can dance on the head of a pin. It is what it is. Don't fight it. I won't do it anymore, there's just too many lies.
So do it, with no apologies. Don't try to justify your actions- you just look deperate. The team is counting on you - remember, no negative downline.
Oh, and don't let your upline Emerald or Diamond know that you came here reading the posts - that's crosslining, and could potentially destroy your business.
Ok, sorry if I can't take on everyone's arguements, I don't have the time to re-read line by line, but I'll touch on some big points.
First of all, the BBB has given Quixtar the "highest possible rating" - I call that approval, you call it whatever you want. But I had a guy (19 yrs old) join my team, and his mom called the BBB, she was relieved to hear it was legit and had the highest possible rating.
Also, our 6-4-2 Marketing Plan has been approved by the FTC. You said yourself in 1979 the FTC ruled that this type of Business model was legal. I call That approval!
As to the ignorant rants about Bill Britts "affair" or Dexter grabbing some girl? You know what, if your dad cheated on your mom, I think thats wrong - but it sure as hell don't make you a bad person!! If the president of your company sexually harrasses some girl doesn't mean jack about you or the company. Bill Clinton fondled his intern, should we shut down the government cause someone in the hierachy, totally distant from you or I did something wrong? You (who bring up these types of complaints aren't worth the first 3 words of my response, but I'm in the giving mood!
The "not my line of sponsorship" is old. Well sorry if I made it too broad. There's probably 300,000 IBOs in BWW, so yea, there are maybe some bad ones in there too. Heck even Larry Winters has 25,000 at functions probably some overbearing or immoral ones there too. Just like out of the 5,000 people at Your company, there's a few jerks to say the least! Doesn't mean they should shut it down.
All I know is what I've seen. I've been to 5 different Opens in 4 different states, never seen ANY activities as described. In my local team, my upline Platinum, Ruby, Emerald, we don't do business that way!! Palin & simple.
And yes, this is a business, thanks for pointing that out, of course the purpose is to make money! As yes we recruit. Just as Ray Kroc and Dave Thomas did when they started franchising the fast-food concept.
But building a team isn't the only way to make money. There are people who sell XS to bars, restaurants, etc or promote the Gift Albums to companies. I know a girl who made $40,000 last year from the sell of gift albums. She $25,000 in her frist year, with No "team", just two accounts. It worked for her? It doesn't for others. I might try going to medical school and not make it, it doesn't mean I need to bash the Harvard School of Medicine, cause I didn't make it!
Finally, the biggest lesson I can give you all. Now listen closely. This is a business. Not a get rich quick scheme (at least my LOS doesn't present it as such). If you have "employee mentality" you won't succeed in ANY business endeavor. I know a successfull paintball store. The owners told me that they didn't bring home a paycheck for the first 2 years!! Larry Winters after 3.5 years was at 1500pv. But at 5 years was Platinum, Emerald in 7, and Diamond in 9. It took Mike Bundy 22 years to go Diamond, but he did it! How long before you "make it" at Your job!! I just finished my first year last Dec. And when I filed my taxes, with my deductions of tools, conferences, etc. I was at a big fat ZERO! Thats right, I made NO MONEY!! But guess what? I've got Business owner mentality.
If you're used to doing a certain amount of work, and expecting a certain amount of pay - then don't start your own business! you have employee mentality. The people who don't make it in this are the ones that say, "I'm gonna do a certain amount of work, for a certain amount of time, and if the results don't equal what I put in, I'll quit". To quote Larry - "get out now, save time and money". You will never make it at ANY business endeavor with employee mentality. Just go to work, punch your ticket, and demand your predetermined paycheck. There's nothing wrong with that! But don't bash others for wanting to do something different, and helping others improve their lives, just because it didn't work for you, or because some guy called you every week for 2 months and forgot to tell you to wear a tie to the meeting, and made you listen to a talk that ran over 15 minutes.
Like I said, I read all these rants before I got started, but I chose to listen to more credible sources, than bitter people who didn't work it. Thats not ALL critics, but thats a lot!
One last thing, as for the partner stores just looking to make $$ - of course Disney, IBM, etc want to make money, but they wouldn't affiliate themselves with a company that wasn't legit, to say otherwise is absurd! Disney dropped Britney Spears' sponsorship for posing for Rolling Stones with her bra showing!! They don't partner with anyone who's gonna hurt there image!
Illegal companies or scams don't operate in the open making billions of $$ a year! I'm seriously done wasting my time trying to convince naysayers. Its like arguing with a liberal. You're not gonna sway them, they're not gonna sway you. Hopefully, I've helped someone in the middle see some valid points of view.
As a previous poster said: Don't listen to me, or the crit-bots, look into it for yourself, but consider who you're talking to. Just cause some guy says, it didn't work for me, doesn't mean it doesn't work. You don't know what kind of effort he ever made. Good luck to everyone!
Qblog,
I'm glad you realize your place as leader of this fanatastic crew. Larson is right about all of the perks you are about to receive as the almighty leader. Especially considering you will be writing a book on the expose called Quixtar.
You can go on a tour, catering to the masses of critbots...and yes, they will get the candles out and start cheering their chant....by the way...what is that chant again? perhaps someone could fill everyone in. I'm not too familiar with Critbot lingo.....I think it goes something like "Click, whiz....Flush that stinkin' biz"
Again Tony, your information contains some fallacies or half-truths that are easy to dispell, if you are willing to take the few minutes to do so. For example, here is the BBB's report on Quixtar, http://www.grandrapids.bbb.org/commonreport.html?bureau=grandrapids&code=&compid=11002927&national=Y. They have a "Satisfactory Record" with 29 complaints in the past 36 months. The reason Quixtar maintains their satisfactory record is they do a good job of resolving said complaints. I'm sure Quixtar also pays a little extra given they average a complaint about every 5 to 6 weeks.
As for the FTC, please search where they approve the 6-4-2 plan and show it to me. I bet you can't find anything. And why don't you look for things like "buy from yourself and teach others to do so" and see what the FTC thinks about these types of programs? I bet you don't like what you read. The reality was, by a razor thin margin, FTC ruled the Amway, now Quixtar, marketing plan was legal because it included retail sales to end consumers and had a buy back guarantee. The FTC also looked at a certain line that had a lot of retail sales. Otherwise, had the FTC looked at a line like it is today where 80% or more of all products is purchased by the IBO, it would have shut it all down 26 years ago.
Since 1979, AmQuix has been lining politician's pockets to keep the government off their back. And for the most part, it's worked. Considering there are a few Congressmen and Senator's "owned" by AmQuix and the President himself is a major receiver of funds, it's no surpise the FTC hasn't gone after AmQuix again. But it will happen again, as long as the complaints continue to pile on and former distributors don't remain silent.
As for the number of IBO's in BWW, maybe world wide the number is 300,000, but in Quixtar, with is North America only, it can't be 300,000. Why? Because 300,000 is the total number of IBO's Quixtar claims, and we all know not every IBO is in BWW.
I also don't buy all the bs about employer/employee attitude. The correct attitude is work hard and the rewards will come. Sure there is less risk being an employee, but the potential reward for owning your own business is also generally higher. But with AmQuix, the overwhelming majority do the hard work, but they still end up never making money! It's a bad deal, as less then 1 in 14,000 ever make it to diamond. Heck, less then 1 in 300 make it to platinum, and even at this pin level, it still isn't a very profitable business, if at all.
However, if you are a tool producer and/or take a part in tool profits, you are taking in the money. A tape costs at most $.50 to produce, and a CD even cheaper. How many tapes/CD's do you go through in a week, Tony, and what do you pay for them? Now, multiply that by every IBO listening and figure out the hundreds of thousands, if not millions in tool profits.
Last, have you ever been a corporate attorney, Tony? Me neither, but I've talked to my company's casually about Quixtar and third party companies. Right now, there isn't that much buzz still about Quixtar, and the Dateline story came and passed. For sure, companies like Disney, et. al. talked about the potential negative association with Quixtar, but decided to remain silent to see if anything came of the negative press. For sure, if another big negative story came and caught fire, I'd bet the big companies like Disney would abandon the Quixtar ship as quickly as they did the Brittany Spears thing.
dmm,
why is it that when you want someone to do their "due diligence" you only mention the negative sites? why not give them the negative sites, plus quixtarfacts.com and other positive blogging sites like quixtatic? Just giving people the negative sites isn't doing due diligence at all, it's just trying to get people to see "your" point of view.
That is the reason I think qblog is fair is because he DOES provide due diligence by offering both positive and negative despite having some differences with his opinions.
Besides that, if you feel your manipulated by something as simple as a business opportunity meeting, there's nothing that say's you can't get up and walk out. Simple enough.
I never hide what this business this is. I give my prospects a business card that says powered by Quixtar at the top- so they know what they are clearly being presented.
If amway/quixtar is so bad why do alot of MLM companies model their presentations?
The reason I only mention the negative sites to the pro-Quixtar people on here is because I assume they already got the positive information from the meetings, tapes, etc. If someone were to ask for a positive site, and I've been asked, I usually direct them to On the Road with Dave. But for the most part, people like Tony already think they know everything and everything is coming up roses in regards to Quixtar. No need to send them to positive sites.
P.S. QBlog, the check is in the mail.
Tony,
I've been to more BWW opens than I can count. Each one is EXACTLY as Scott N describes.
Ima
"Ah, just when I think I'm out, they pull me back in!!"
Just a few remarks, should only take an hour, but forgive me if it runs long.
Yes, dmm, I'm familar with the BBB's site, I've read all that before. Satisfactory means: good, not bad. Lets just share with the others what that site actually says and then let them decide if the BBB thinks Quixtar is a scam:
To have a "Satisfactory Record" with the Bureau, a company must be in business for at least 12 months, properly and promptly address matters referred to it by the Bureau, and *be free from an unusual volume or pattern of complaints and law enforcement action involving its marketplace conduct.* In addition, the Bureau must have a clear understanding of the company's business and no concerns about its industry.
The Bureau processed 29 complaints about this company in the last 36 months, our standard reporting period.... These complaints concerned sales issues, delivery issues, guarantee or warranty issues, refund or exchange issues, contract issues, customer service issues and credit or billing issues. Of these complaints, 25 were closed as resolved. 4 were closed when the company addressed the disputed issues and exhibited a good faith effort to resolve the complaint. When evaluating complaint information, please consider the company's size and volume of business. The number of complaints filed against the company may not be as important as the type of complaints and how the company handled them.
I just love your unbiased comment, "I'm sure Quixtar also pays a little extra given they average a complaint about every 5 to 6 weeks". You're unbelievable! Quixtar doesn't "pay a little extra", they simply resolve the issue, plain & simple!
So, a complaint every 5-6 weeks. Which is then resolved. Walmart gets sued once every 9 hours!! I think I'm done talking about the BBB.
So you want ME to show You where the FTC has approved our 642 plan. No, how bout YOU show ME where they don't approve!! This is America! Innocent until proven guilty?? If you're gonna bash Quixtar, the burden of proof is on YOU!! You show ME where the FTC has called this a scam! Casually run That one by corporate lawyers!
Even if your #'s are right, its better than what corporate America offers. The Social Security Administration says that at age 65, only 2% of Americans are self-sustaining in retirement, with a net worth (minus their house) of $80,000 in actual assets. How long can you live on $80,000?? So what you retire at 65 and then hope to die in the next 4 years!! Thats why when I say "Walmart Greeter" you think "old person". 98% of people 65+ are either still working, living off relatives, or a charity.
1 in 300 hit Platinum? Well in Martial Arts 1 in 6000 ever reach 2nd degree Black-belt, but guess what buddy, I did! Why? Because I was better or smarter? Noooo, because I made a decision, and I stuck with it, and I did the work necessary. Go watch the movie "Rudy".
Oh and you say that at Platinum you're barely making any money if at all. That tells me one thing - you ain't ever been a Platinum!!
Lets talk about tools, again. YES! there is money in the tools - they show it Right in the plan!! We say at Diamond you'll make $150,000! That's just Quixtar money, BWW will pay another $100,000 to go around and talk at different seminars and functions, if you choose to. We say even at Platinum, there's about $20,000 from BWW.
Now what is BWW? An Optional training and support system which has books, CD's, seminars etc. So what is the issue? People pay $25,000 a year to go to college!!, and then spend hundreds of dollars on books! Because knowledge is worth money!! Doesn't the college make $$ when you buy books? Shouldn't you get books for FREE?! No? Then WHY would you get free books and CDs in this business??
Here's the thing, a CD cost $7.50. If I think its worth it, I buy it, if not, I don't. So if I decide to spend the 7.50, what do I care if a portion of it goes to my upline!! Heck, I'd rather they get it all - Bill Britt didn't show me the plan! He ought to share a % of the profit.
It bothers people that my upline makes money on books & CD's? Doesn't your college!?! Why don't teachers teach for free!
I don't pay anyone in my upline for the miles they drive, the time they put in, or the tools they provided in my group. So I have no problem if they get a % of a CD I choose to invest in! If that concept bothers you I suggest you drop out of school. While you're at it quit your job, cause your company is making money off you too! And the day they stop making money off you, they ain't gonna pay you anymore!
I'm sure you really know the inner workings at Disney, as a well as ALL the other 3000 companies that do business with Quixtar. I just love that answer "uhh, I'm sure they thought about it, and I'm sure the NEXT time then they'll Definitely drop Quixtar". Yea, good one. Guess what - people in charge of Fortune 500 companies, don't listen to internet hype and TV media "news" programs that just try to create "shocking news stories" to sell advertising, when making business decisions. Maybe you shouldn't either.
Oh, and I never said I know everything. I just know that this is a business and it takes work and its not guaranteed (nothing is)... cause they told me! And I know people with employee mentality shouldn't try to own a business. That doesn't make them bad or lazy, it just means: don't start a business with the same mentality as when you just worked for someone else!
Do you know if everyone rushed their bank and demanded all their money, they wouldn't be able to pay everyone? Do you know stock is controlled by the publics perception of a company. If people weren't influenced by the negative perceptions of others and thought for themselves this business would be booming!! But I'm glad some people are skeptical, I'm happy you said no, cause now I can just sponsor your kids. No not everyone can be in, but as long as some people are negative, they'll always be people to sponsor. To quote the Judge in Caddyshack "the world needs ditch diggers too!"
Oh and dmm - I forgot, could you post that link for On the Road with Dave? You gave all the others links, just not that one. Thanks.
And iman, so if they're all the same, why do you keep going to them? And seriously, how many different opens could you have gone to? Why? If you're not interested in the business, why travel to a different city and a different open. But in 1 way I agree with you, the 5 BWW opens I've been to have been the same too!! All positive and professional. No cornering, or downtalking, or mazes? Just giving information about a legitament opportunity.... sorry you had a different experience. Try a different team.
Please don't compare tools to a college education. It just doesn't cut it. Just because I have a teaching degree doesn't mean that the only place I'll use the information I learned is as a teacher. I learned a lot, but I didn't always believe everything I was taught. True education teaches an person to think, evaluate, and analyze. I have never seen anywhere on a job application where it asks for the number of tapes/CD's or books from AQ that you've read or listened to. AQ tools are simply a means to keep people thinging positive about themselevs and AQ, and addicted to the praise machine. Critical thinking slowly erodes away.
You talk about employee versus business mentality. Guess what, you are an employee, an employee of Quixtar. The diamonds are employees of Quixtar as well. Sure, they have "retired," but it is from a different job into another.
Quixtar is just another JOB.
BTW the movie "Rudy" drives me nuts. Sure he had a "dream," but what did he really merit? What did he earn? I would not want someone to patronize me and tellme I've accomplished something just be cause I "gave it all I got." That's what out-comed based information is all about. Give credit where credit's due. Undeserved praise dilutes the real stuff.
Yawn, Tony. Now that you've quoted Larry Winters and Ron Puryear to the hilt, what do YOU think?
I'm going to say as the husband to an IBO, and son-in-law to 2 other's, I've seen some crap.
the fact that they IBO's constantly refer to the Quixtar program, as "the business" just tries to reinforce something, so that the person being presented to thinks that it IS a business.
Being an Idependent business owner should allow some degree of independence, yet somehow they ALL sell the same products from the same catalogs. If truly, you were independent, couldn't you sell what you wanted?
If I was independent, couldn't I see pitbull puppies, lap dances, and gun powder on my Quixtar site, give PV for buying it?
Independence requires seperation from a group. Quixtar consists of thousands of "idependent" buisness owners. If I were independently opening a business, why would I sell exactly the same things everyone else is selling?
The Quixtar meetings are some of the most misleading events I've ever seen. I'll just throw out a couple examples.
I overheard a couple of IBO's discussin a potential "client" the conversation went something like this.
"Oh hey, I tried to get John Doe to come tonight, but he just never showed up...it's getting frustrating."
"Well tell him, it was a good thing he didn't come, he wouldn't have had anywhere to sit, and it was standing room only."
Ok, that was horsecrap, I was there, and i was the only one NOT an IBO.
"yeah..."
"Then tell him you'll try and call him back regarding the next meeting, but you have so many other people to set up, it might take a week...and if he really wants to get in, he should call you."
I also love the fact that they give out these incentives and awards...usually sponsored by a Diamond. It's usually something like, if you've had 6 months of 1200BV, or whatever you can come on this houseboat party, or to this party...as a reward, for doing so well.
This is the only business I've heard of where the "business" makes you pay for your rewards...how rewarding.
You did SO well, you're invited to come on our fesitival at sea, it only runs $350 for the weekend. If the Diamonds are so successful, and rich, why don't they pay for it? If it's so vital for the business why don't they pay for your motivational tapes, books, and seminars?
My J-O-B buys that kind of thing.
You're "independent" when it comes to having to buy your own tools, yet you're so much a part of a group when it comes to everything else.
QBlog
It would be really fun to go back and get the links to all the different IBOs who have commented on your site, who say the EXACT same things as Tony has on this post.
We could then give a very unbiased proof of what we mean by "tape speak". We have all heard it before. I don't know whether to laugh or cry.
http://daveontheroad.blogspot.com/ You can also scroll up on this page a bit, look to your right and click "On the Road with Dave" under the recommended blogs area.
Now, here's a question, Tony. You made the statement that the 6-4-2 plan was approved by the FTC. I said back up your statement, and your response is I should, instead, prove you wrong? Nice deflection technique. Do they teach that at meetings? You made the statement, YOU PROVIDE THE PROOF. By the way, the only proof I can find that the 6-4-2 plan is not recommonded by the FTC is the fact I could not find any reference to any 6-4-2 plan anywhere on the FTC website. Doesn't mean it doesn't exist, just I couldn't find it. If you have your proof, I would gladly accept it.
Speaking of backing up your claims with proof, care to back up this statement, "98% of people 65+ are either still working, living off relatives, or a charity." Please cite a source other then your upline when you do, or did your upline cite 80 year old Congressional testimony when he told you 98% of all people retire broke? Try this link. http://www.amquix.info/amway_retirement_legend.html True Scott Larson is vehimently anti-Quixtar, but he at least cites his sources, and if you don't believe him, you can take the links he provides and make up your own mind. See, Tony, that's how it should be done. Not make a claim and tell everyone they need to prove it false.
So, is the "Rudy" reference not the equivalent to "If the dream is big enough the facts don't matter" mantra? Dreams are great. Everybody has dreams, but it shouldn't stop someone from examining reality. And the reality is, Quixtar is not a great way to accumulate a lot of money. The average distributor is making just over $1,400/year (read the fine print on your SA440). That's about $110/month. Even if you are working 5 hours a week, for 40 hours, that's an average of less then $3/hour, before a single dime is taken for expenses! Better bet is taking a part time, minimum wage job.
Sure you could be the 1 in 14,000 to beat the odds and make it diamond, but you could also be the 1 in whatever to win the lottery or hit it big in Vegas. In fact, odds are often better in Vegas! And remember, if the person next to you has the same work ethic and dream as you, for you both to make it to diamond, you now have to find 27,998 others in Quixtar who won't. If you want to call me a dream stealer for these statistics, go right ahead. Still doesn't mean they aren't correct.
And oh, before anyone asks, here are some statistics about winning at gaming verus profitting with AmQuix http://www.mlm-thetruth.com/shockingstats.htm.
I didn't realize it, but I forget to include the link in my original post. Maybe I was too dumbfounded by the notion that a statement could be "innocent until proven guilty." What a total crock. People are innocent or guilty. Statements are either true, false or lie somewhere inbetween in a gray area. And the best way to prove is a statement is true or false is with research and souces, such as the links I give. I'm hoping Tony understands this concepts and gives us proof that the FTC approved the 6-4-2 plan like he stated.
You know, I thought there was no other statement so stupid as "If the dream is big enough, the facts don't count", and then this little winner comes along...
"I just finished my first year last Dec. And when I filed my taxes, with my deductions of tools, conferences, etc. I was at a big fat ZERO! Thats right, I made NO MONEY!! But guess what? I've got Business owner mentality."
BWAH -HA-HA-HA-HA!!!!
Sorry, that isn't "business" mentality - that is Quixbot sheep mentality. Q is the only business I know that you're praised for losing money. I know, I know, you're "paying the price" and a "winner".
A REAL business owner wouldn't be so gleeful (they also have capital and real business plans & timetables and fulfill a true market need)
I am so sick of the employee mentality BS line of thinking. I know it is hard for Quixbots to think for themselves, but believe it or not:
- Some employees actually enjoy what they do for a vocation
- All successful business owners I have ever met worked J-O-B's before they went out on their own, and used their experience from their J-O-B's to be quite successful.
- If you need the Q to "improve your life", your life pretty much sucked to begin with.
All the "business mentality" line does is justify to the Quixbots (in their minds) that they somehow are successful when the business world tells them they are abject failures.
BTW - loved Rudy, one of my favorie movies. Also met him in person, bought his book (Rudy's Rules) and he even signed it for me. He talks about real dreams - not "i'm gonna own five Cadillacs". Only bots watch that movie and think it's about him playing football at Notre Dame. That's only a part - the major part is that along the way, he became an A student - actually got in to ND - got a degree - and until the head groundskeeper sets him straight and let him know that even if he didn't play, he had acheived some incredible things in the journey and then, and only then, does Rudy gets the full picture (only when his best friend was killed does Rudy even start). Oh yeah, Rudy never looked at family as losers, either.
If you want to talk about negative, you Mr. Quixbot are the true negative. You gladly throw away everything you ever acheived and overcame (Job and non-job) in your life for a phony set of standard of Larry, Bill, or Dex, and let them dictate your new life of misery because now your focus is on what you don't have or haven't done - instead of the other way around.
Sorry to get preachy - but this employee/employer menatlity things just irritates me to no end.
BTW - what "3000 companies"? And if Disney, B&N, and Circuit City are just clicking their heels about being "affiliated" with Quixtar - why can't I find any mention of the Q on any of their sites or corporate info? Hmmmm.
And why wasn't the Q mentioned in this month's edition of SmartMoney (hardly a small publication put out by the Wall Street Journal) whenthe cover story was about the best Internet Retailing sites?? 4.4 Bil over 5+ years - how many TRILLIONS has Wal-Mart done?
Bravo, Bruce! Dittos to all you just expressed!
Howdy Folks,
I didn't even know there was still a discussion going on here, thanks for the link info DMM, I always enjoy a good spike in traffic.
Just wanted to say something about the guy who was happy he showed ZERO profit on his taxes.
Get real people! I just had a similar discussion with my new son-in-law who was happy he was getting a $1000 dollar refund back from the IRS.
I tried telling him that while that may seem good(it's probably the only time during the year he has a lump sum of 1000 bucks) the real goal is NOT refunds..the real goal is a HUGE tax bill.
Don't dream about fancy cars and houses, shoot for having an annual tax bill of $25,000 or more, then you KNOW you have a business.
imanewme,dmm, etc.
So us IBO's can't quote our uplines, yet you guys can quote MOD and amquix.info all day long? It's a two way street.
also, inquiring mind:
re:your question,
'For anyone else out there: Are there any tapes out there from AQ that show an IBO in their first 2-3 years what profit they are making?'
Being a member of WWDB I do have a copy of a parameter sheet we use as a guideline if you'd like me to email you one. Please email me, and I'll send you one.
In response to the question asked awhile ago as to where and when I went to this meeting it was last monday (May 2,2005) in Morgantown WV.
In response to the comment that "you may leave any time", yes the meeting did start with that comment. But as a direct result of the way the "guests" were placed in the room pressue was placed on the "guests" not to leave.
If the room placement was intentional, I do not know I can only speak to the limits of my perception. I know that easier to access rooms were available.
I personally run a flea market stand as my part time business. Let me just tell you that if I went out and set up every nice Sunday to have no money at the end of the year, I would quit and not even think twice about it.
I appriciate the comment from the pro-Q indivdual who reminded us that there is more than just owning or out, that was certainly not touched on during the talk in any length.
When submitting my perceptions I had no idea I was going to touch such a nerve. I simply felt that this information needed to be shared. I had never heard of Q before last monday and have no hidden agenda or anything like that (which was suggested below).
"imanewme,dmm, etc.
So us IBO's can't quote our uplines, yet you guys can quote MOD and amquix.info all day long? It's a two way street."
Show me where I quoted amquix.info or MOD. If you're going to make a huge deal of it, at least accuse me of something I actually did. Oh, that's right "the facts don't count?"
Either my comments aren't clear, Michael, or you misunderstood me. My point is trust but verify. Whenever I make a statement, I always try to cite my source. That way, you the reader can check it out for yourself and see if you agree or disagree. If you don't trust the source, you can do that too, and you can try and discredit both of us.
With AmQuixbots like Tony, they hardly ever mention their source. And when they do, it is some unnamed upline or a AmQuix kingpin, which I already distrust and have attempted to discredit. Besides, if Tony is going to make a statement regarding the FTC, why not go directly to the source, i.e. the Federal Trade Commission, and prove the statement? The FTC is a government agency, and usually very open and honest about answering questions. And for me, if someone is going to say something like the FTC does this or that, it's my inclination to not take the statment on face value, but ask the source itself. And to date, I haven't found anything from the FTC that says they approve the 6-4-2 plan.
Sorry, last comment was me. Got e-mail and name confused.
Okay, I got no sources to quote, but let's look at this with a little common sense.
The 6-4-2 plan is not unique, it's not trademarked, it's not copyrighted, it's merely a hypothetical scenario of how MLM recruiting works, it would not warrant any FTC approval nor deserve any.
Now, while I believe that the FTC may regulate and decide what makes the MLM concept legal, it seems unlikely that they would "approve" a scenario like 6-4-2 or 9-4-2 or 3x3x3 or 5x5x5 or a binary plan with 2 who get 2 on each side, who get two on each side.
Besides, what does it matter anyway, with all these "plans", unless you are using "ideal" numbers to hype the prospect?
My plan takes about two minutes to explain
Oh my dear sweet Jesus. I've been away for 2 days and look what happens.
Tony, welcome aboard. You have not typed an original thought in all that crap you posted, nothing there we've never heard before. I think you may have been exagerating a bit with some of your claims. For example, congratulations on becoming a second degree black belt, however, were you saying 1 in 6000 people never get it? 1 in 6000 in the general populous maybe, but 1 in 6000 that are in karate actually only get to 2nd? LOLOLOLOL!!!! I'm a schmuck, but I know many people in karate who are beyond even that (Wado Kai) I myself will be doing it too, and it is HARDLY the way you say it. And it hardly takes a Rudyesque effort to achieve it. It is a matter of being disciplined.
All your other flim flam arguments about your little rinky dink business were already addressed by my fellow QBlog worshippers.
Nice to have new blood in the mix, but at the end of the day:
Your Prices Suck and are not competitive
It is not a more efficient way of doing business
It is deceptive, and the person who wrote about the experience attending a meeting echoes what many people have been exposed to. For you to imply that this is not usual is really quite pathetic and we all can smell that lie like a fart in a car.
As far as the BBB, I'm sure that if someone complained about Quixtar, there'd likely be nothing that would involve Quixtar if it's the tool kingpins pulling the deception.
I wonder if the BBB would lodge those complaints under BWW, or Dex's organization's name? Because that's where the problem business is. It's not Quixtar that's deceiving the masses
They're just allowing it to happen.
Well since I'm so unoriginal, I'll do my best to make this the last time you hear from me. First off, bruce, with all the negativity, thanks for calling me a winner, I'm sure you're a winner too! ;)
As for tools, the books on the "suggested book list" are not books written about Quixtar, or by people in Quixtar - there success principle books, relationaship books etc. And I personally (and many others) have gotten more out of these $6, and $9 books, than my $90 & $100 books I paid for in college.
I'm glad you got something out of college, I was happy with my college experience too. Learned things for life use, not just job use. Well actually not much for job use, since I'm not working in my field of major, like most peopl. All I was saying is its BS when people b!tch about the books/seminars etc, but have no problem with the money they dropped for college, which i'm still paying off BTW. Plus i have 100's of $$ in old text books I couldn't sell back, and will never read again. My $7 copy of "Magic of Thinking Big", I can read over and over and give to others, in and out of this business.
I never really liked the expression "if the dream is big enough the facts don't count" only because of the way you people misconstrew it. But a good example of what it means is the movie we've talked about, "Rudy". Everyone said he couldn't do it, and on paper, the FACTS said he couldn't either. His grades weren't good enough to even get in, and then "he was 5' nothing, a hundred and nothing" The facts said "no way", BUT his dream was big enough. And he did! (BTW, when you bought his book, did he make money on that??)
Someone (a girl I presume) asked, but what did Rudy really merit? What did he merit?? - - RESPECT! Something you obviously know very little about.
So not making profit the first year (and still perservereing) isn't Biz mentality... well we've established you don't know what biz mentality is. Maybe you didn't understand what I said about the paintball store owner I talked to - he didn't bring home a paycheck for 2 years! 2 years and no profit!! But he didn't have JOB mentality and quit, now 15 years later, its all he does for income and is doing ok.
I'm not proud I lost money, and no one in Quixtar praises you for losing money, never heard that one- I'm sorry, but stop acting like a moron!
Yes, some people like their jobs, some do. Some think they do. Would you do it for free? or work over for free? Do you hang out with coworkers on weekends? No one ever said to quit your job, heck if you can make an extra 100,000 and you like your job, do both!!
I don't need Quixtar to improve my life because it sucks. I needed this team of people helping me, because I wanted to make it better!! I don't care who you are or what you do, an extra $2-3000 a month would help anyone. The other things you learn, would help anyone in everyday life too. You go ahead and love your job, I prefer to travel and not have my wife work a job, or have to put my kids in daycare.
(BTW, I'm building it now before I have a wife and kids) But the ones who do aren't neglecting their family, 1) its called delayed gratification, and 2) the smart ones involve their families, the wife goes with to the plan; the kids see daddy meeting people and both parents working together in a common goal.
This isn't about owning 5 cadillac's. See thats your problem, all you see is the money! This business is about friendships, and improving people's lives and marriages. We touch on political, spiritual, and financial freedoms. But all you see is the last. Partly, because all you saw was 1 open - and we have to meet people at the lowest common denominator, which is money. But when you stick around, you get more out of it. But I know, I've just been brainwashed.
Oh, and I've never called my family or Anyone a loser for not being involved with this team - stop putting words in my mouth!
As for why our Partner stores don't link to us - we don't advertise genious! Or didn't you catch that in the plan. They pay US to link to THEM (& create volume), not the other way around!!
You mention Walmart? Yea, they're #11, we're #12. According to Internet Retailer and Business 2.0.
Wow, iman great way to avoid the issues, and dodge my questions! gee, no ones ever said that before, and you accuse me of being unoriginal. Well how bout this, i've never heard a Ron Puryear tape/CD, so none of that was his. And just because my neighbor thinks abortion is wrong, and I do too, doesn't mean I stole the idea from him! People are allowed to agree on things!
You say, we all say the same things - well guess what, YOU ALL sound like broken records too, but thats OK!! You're allowed to agree! And so are we! Don't try to dismiss it as tape talk just because you don't agree with it.
Any pharmacists out there? If I asked why you couldn't take Prozac and Celexa at the sametime and you said something along the lines of "well when dealing with MAOI inhibitors its dangerous to blahblahblah" - how dumb do I have to be to say "ah, you're just regurgitating something you heard in some book or seminar"? Well no sh!t, but does it mean you don't believe or understand it. Did you "pop out" knowing everything you were ever gonna say! The "tape talk" excuse is weak!
As for prices, some stuff might seem over priced, but when you consider quality, or value (concentrated), most aren't that bad. Some are same or better. I bought a lawnmower, saved $59 versus Sears and Walmart! Bought a cell phone saved $80 dollars - saved $49 on my digital camera. Protein bars and energy drinks for the same price at the grocery store, maybe even a little cheaper - not to mention the rebate. Oh and name me one person who became a multi-millionaire shopping at BigLots. Speaking of which, do you shop at Big Lots? How bought Good Will? If you're so worried about prices why wouldn't you. Ah, because you factor in quality and value. You want cheap prices, go 1000pv, and get your stuff for free! Or platinum and get paid to shop.
To clarify the Karate thing, I'm talking about 1 in 6000 that EVER start it, like all the ones that start and then quit, never even get yellow belt. I've seen hundreds of people come thru our school and take it a few months, get a few belts and then fall out of it. No big deal, just wasn't for them.
You know, I apologize for those of you who've had a legitament bad experience, but guess what, it wasn't with Quixtar - it was with a PERSON who used Quixtar as a supplier. Maybe they were overbearing or insulting. But thats on them, not me, my team, or Quixtar. You're the type of person that wants to sue the gun manufacturer when a kid gets shot at school, or the car manufacturer when your dog gets hit. Blame the person responsible!
I'm sorry you have a negative perception of this business, I'm sorry your experience hasn't been the same as mine, but you haven't seen what I've seen.
But I'm done wastng my time trying to convince you otherwise. Hopefully I've helped one person who's read this. Now I'm gonna go out and help others, cause thats how I get back at the ignorant little minded people on here. Some of you are good people. But some of you have reaffirmed my believe that there are just some negative, small-minded, not-even-mediocre people who have no ambition, or any understanding of success. And trying to convince them otherwise is about as useless as doing chest compressions on someone with their head cut off.
Have fun twisting my words... and being unoriginal. Oh, and if this is no good, or not worth doing, please let me know what you've got thats better.
And I thought I'd share this link:
www.extremefreedomteam.com
This is a few clips of how some of the Emeralds and above live. (Joe rents out this stadium every year to play a baseball game with his leaders, admission is FREE)
Some of these guys are from my town, not just some group of people we never see.
Watch each clip and tell me it doesn't work or isn't worth it.
Or check out PeterIsland .com - owned by the same families that owns Quixtar and the Orlando Magic, but I don't work for the Orlando Magic either.
Tony,
I am sorry to say but you lost your marbles. On the IQ scale, your IQ stands somewhere between idiot and imbecile. Try to read what you just typed and tell me if it makes sense. I wanted to call you a moron but that would be an insult to the word moron.. Come back next year and tell us if you are making money or just BS that you are in this for spritual, friendship reasons bla blah...
Man!!! that quixtar and AQMO put together is some powerful cult.. Hope you get out before its too late.
Have fun driniking the kool-aid and being broke.
You know I find it funny that most of the sites complaining about Amway/Quixtar are writen by people who claim to be educated. It is a shame that all that education blinded them. Who cares if it is Quixtar, Mary Kay, Xango.. or any other MLM. You claim to be telling the truth. You sound like those truth.com ads. You are telling people your idea, your interpertation, and selling it as the truth. You are just as bad as the people you are claiming tricked you. The other thing you are not taking into consideration is that their are several lines of sponsership, they are not all the same. So again you are tricking people into hatting Quixtar when it is really the LOS that you are mad at. Let people make their own minds up. People like you call Quixtar a cult and say things liek "they brain wash you into thinking the business will work." You will only get out of it what you want... just like a job. Corp. America is the bigest scam out there. Think about it, do what you are told when you are told, how you are told, get paid less then you are worth. But hey if that is the life for you great. So Quixtar was not for you, Corp America is not for everybody, just leave it be and stop trying to brian wash people into thinking like you. I have seen MLM's work for a lot of people, and I have seen it not work for people. Best of luck in what ever you do.. MLM or Corp America, or store front.
Hey Tony! Nice to hear from you!
Thanks for clarifying the karate thing. If you read what you originally typed, it sounds like anyone who ever wanted their 2nd degree has a 1 in 6000 chance. Little bit misleading, but I'm sure it wasn't intentional. You IBO's are magnificent purveyers of unintentional exageration. Although, a 1 in 6000 chance is better than your odds in Amway/Quixtar.
Most people understand ownership vs. job mentality. Save it. There are pros and cons to both. Great!! This is not a case of business ownership. You don't own it. Many things are decided for you, which are beyond your control. It's not a real business. To call it a franchise is borderline bastardizing the term "franchise"
Oh yes, a little tapespeak:
"Oh and name me one person who became a multi-millionaire shopping at BigLots"
There are many people who ARE in fact millionaires who shop at these types of places. I strongly suggest you read "The Millionaire Next Door" Your "leaders" are not how real millionaires act.
Your prices suck. Bottom line. You can't control that. And that's without including shipping prices. Get real. The fact that you don't acknowledge this makes it clear that you are not too big into retail, which may or may not mean your business is being run illegally. Ever heard of the 70% rule? Yeah, I'm sure you peddle all your stuff at those ridiculous prices.
If you want to see the reality of how emeralds live, check out Merchants of Deception or Jeff Probandt's site. They are showing you only what they want you to see.
Hi Eddie. Obviously you don't get what's going on here. Amway/Quixtar is allowing the lines of sponsorship to do what they are doing. And any way you want to slice it, it is unethical at best.
Nice to see you are also a job hater. Be careful to hate what is currently providing you sustenance. Again, hating your job and your boss is childish and small thinking. Your attitude about your job may be why you hate it so much. Grow up.
Good to hear from you both though.
I gotta go. Time to listen to my QBlog tape on why the world depends on me posting truthful (not negative) comments on his blog. If I can get only 3 more people to do what I'm doing, I'll only be paying him $100.00, and after you take into account the high quality of his blog, it's really worthwhile.
Sounds stupid, doesn't it?
Prasad.... I'd be willing to wager Tony's IQ is higher than yours since he actually throws out some valid points... and you throw out nothing but insults and no rebuttals. That's just sad. So what flavor is your kool-aid?
(In case you don't have that software which lets you read between the lines, basically I'm calling you a 2-bit moron who has "swallowed a pill" of his own). There, language you should relate to.
Define irony: Right at the bottom of the original blog, critizing "quixtar", there is (at least when I wrote this) a Google Ad for a company called Wireless Marketplace.... which, wouldn't you know it, is a Partner Store of Quixtar! Only when I clicked on it to look at Nextel plans, the little 18% discount thing didn't pop up.... thats right only IBO's get that. Gee 18% off your Nextel plan makes it worth the start-up cost right there! I bet if I had bought a phone I wouldn't have gotten a check in the mail either. Wait, so how's that business work again?
One word to you guys - rocket, prasad or anyone similar:
If you had ever sponsored 6 of the likes of Tony, all you would have to do then is just sit back and laugh all the way to the bank. You could even go inactive. Talk about morons. Like you could never find a "Tony." The world is full of them.
Hey idiot Michael,
You are nothing but a cult a**hole trying to stink up this place. what are your valid points. Conning people into Cults? robbing their life long earnings into tapes, seminars? If you are such a big shot, Show everyone your schedule C you pathetic excuse for a human. I am sorry to call you a**hole. a**hole serves a purpose. You amway/quixtar guys don't serve any purpose in life.
Do you want to compare income and assets? verified by an independed accountant? I am ready. are you?
Hey brainwashed imbecile, do you want to put money where your mouth is? or your purpose in life is parroting your upline's "words of wisdom"?
Hey Big M! Good to see you back for more!
I'm sure the world already has its fill of "Tony's". "Tony" himself has already disclosed he did not gereate a profit in his business this year. So I could laugh all the way to the bank in what way?
Oh I get it, laugh at "Tony" buying more tapes he doesn't need, to impress people he doesn't even know.....oops, a little tapespeak there. Sorry.
Thanks anyway Big M. I'm getting laughs enough here, and it's not the kind of laugh you share with your buddies, it's more of a, "Man, just when you think it can't get any more pathetic" laugh.
Rest assured, I get a lot of laughs from you Amway guys.
And it doesn't cost me money to buy a tape of the week to get it either. Although I would surmise its more value than the tape of the week you currently subscribe to.
Do tell, are you free yet? How many more "Tonys" do you need?
Good God he's running volume, plenty of it I am sure... doesn't matter if he's making a "profit" right this minute. People like Tony aren't about quitting next week. And you'd BE DAMN THANKFUL for tapes if you sponsored him. I am sure his upline appreciates it also considering they may be spending a lot of time working legs in his business, miles on their car, etc. What's that worth, to have someone (an Emerald, Diamond) help you work your legs, $50/hr? $100/hr? Buy the damn cd, it's cheaper. You keep asking about new diamonds in the last five years.... TELL ME ONE who made it WITHOUT a system -- and I'll spot you 10 years, not five!
Rocket - don't you even have a BASIC knowledge of the plan workings?? No wonder you hardly made it to 100PV when you were in. I am not going to explain it to you here, except: What does 6 guys like Tony running 2500 PV each make you, rocket.... any idea??
What's that worth, to have someone (an Emerald, Diamond) help you work your legs, $50/hr? $100/hr?
I dunno. I guess they'd have a vested interest as long as I kept buying the "damn CD"
I didn't ask you about diamonds within 5 years on this post. Has there been one?
Because if there has, I'd like to know about it.
The only ones who are damn thankful for the tapes are the people who convinced you (and many others) that you NEED them to live life properly.
They make the VAST (since we're capitalizing now) majority of their income off of the schlepps who buy them.
Any new points to bring to the table Big M? Or has the Amway/Quixtar business remained status quo?
Funny thing, Ken McDonald had a J-O-B and he's retired. How long do you think the corporation (despite it's problems that it's responsible for) would have let him remain an employee if he had the attitude towards his job that you weak minded IBO's have?
And his retirement will be far superior to any IBO's that doesn't rely on the system income.
So, anything new to add? Or has your upline gone to bed for the night?
"What does 6 guys like Tony running 2500 PV each make you, rocket.... any idea??"
Is Tony doing that? Do you know? Or is this just upline talk?
What it makes me is an independant thinker who knows this is a pile of crap, based on the economics of the business.
DO YOU have any idea how a REAL BUSINESS works Em?
Obviously you do not, or you wouldn't be involved in this.
So, again, are you almost free? I'll bet I'm closer than you are.
Truth sucks, doesn't it?
Have a good one, and for goodness sakes, get off the tapes. Sheesh.
Wow, I gave you an underhand pitch right down the middle and you still struck out looking.
Tony/Mike/Mike C/M&M or whatever you want to call yourself (you're not fooling anyone!) - maybe you'll actually be true to your word and "be done" here - no one is dragging you back
Why are you so obsessed with if Mr Rudy "made money" off the book? He authored it, why not? Red herring alert!
Rudy has a big section on Dreams in his book - try reading it sometime - and how he had to deal with life AFTER playing in the game and explains how his real life differed from the movie.
What "facts" would not allow him not to go to ND? Do you mean odds?
Do you all get your panties in a bunch since your kingpin makes oodles of dough off books yet never wrote one??
As for bad experiences with Q - er, what is the Q made up with? People! I know that's a hard one to grasp.
"if the dream is big enough" line is just a crutch to use so people will still go down the wrong path - I'm not misapplying it here - Rudy talks about knowing when a dream is real and tangible versus blind obsession. Rudy also talks about knowing when to properly quit(gasp!) when you know it's not the right path.
"Quit" is a word bastardized by bots. If you quit cocaine, you're a loser??
No, I don't "hang out" with my co-cworkers - I keep work life and home life separate. If you were half as smart as you claim to be - you'd see the wisdom in that. So, I don't go for the political/spiritual/financial mumbo-jumbo soup you spout. Biz is not my "life" as it is yours. Helps with discernment and balance of life
Would you do Quixtar for free? (oops - you already are!!)
BTW - I was "in" for 4 years, 2500 pin, and watch the opens that go on every month where I work - same exact thing every month - no different than when I was in 10 years ago. Watched Yager/Victor/Britt groups - so I guess we cancel each other out.
You accusing me of only seeing dreams for $$ only shows your obsession with $$.
Why are the Q bots here so desperate for us (happily) negative morons to approve their biz??
Could it be that the marketplace won't??
I want to respond to Tony comments....
"I don't need Quixtar to improve my life because it sucks. I needed this team of people helping me, because I wanted to make it better!!"
-If you made ZERO dollars this year with Quixtar, did it get better, thanks to Bill Britt, Larry Winters and team?
"I don't care who you are or what you do, an extra $2-3000 a month would help anyone."
-But in the supposedly massive "300,000 in BWW" organization, only Bill Britt, Larry Winters, & Danny Snipes make that much a month. And, the money comes from selling you their motivational material, not Quixtar. You don't make money, refer to your tax return. Don't you get it? You have a .0007 chance of getting where they are. Read the fine print, it's there. They have to tell you the truth, the FTC forced them to.
"The other things you learn, would help anyone in everyday life too. You go ahead and love your job, I prefer to travel and not have my wife work a job, or have to put my kids in daycare."
-That is tape speak. Do you know anyone intimately enough in the organization, to know for a fact that they travel, wife doesn't work, etc. Have you even seen anyones kids? They aren't allowed to any meetings.
"(BTW, I'm building it now before I have a wife and kids) But the ones who do aren't neglecting their family, 1) its called delayed gratification, and 2) the smart ones involve their families, the wife goes with to the plan; the kids see daddy meeting people and both parents working together in a common goal."
-Go read my story BUDDY! That is more typical of what happens. Divorce! And, she will lose custody of our son, because she chose Quixtar. That's not delayed gratification, that's lost gratification. According to my expert witness on cults and child development and according to my son's Ad Litem attorney, involving kids in Quixtar is detrimental to their upbringing, thinking that this cult is normal. That is why I'm getting custody.
This isn't about owning 5 cadillac's. See thats your problem, all you see is the money! This business is about friendships, and improving people's lives and marriages. We touch on political, spiritual, and financial freedoms. But all you see is the last. Partly, because all you saw was 1 open - and we have to meet people at the lowest common denominator, which is money. But when you stick around, you get more out of it. But I know, I've just been brainwashed.
-This is the key statement, to prove where the real damage takes blace in BWW organization. They replace the family and friends, who don't agree with Quixtar. There are numerous qoutes of BWW, that say you are who you associate with. And, not to associate with people who are negative of the business. There in lies the real danger.
"Oh, and I've never called my family or Anyone a loser for not being involved with this team - stop putting words in my mouth!"
-He seems a little sensitive. I would bet he's upset friends and family who don't support him. It must hurt.
Finally, almost all his statements are typical tape speak. We know that. So Tony, in about 2-5 years your whole world will come crashing down, when it finally hits you, that you were being scammed. Good Luck. We're just trying to help you avoid what you will figure out on your own eventually.
Quixtar scares the shit out of people who are broke.
Before commenting please understand Quixtar is a warehouse nothing else. It has got products and only products. People who market Quixtar products are IBOs just like you and me. Uniqueness of Quixtar is that you get discounts plus cash back over purchases. If you don;t like either of them go ahead with the negative. No negative applies to Quixtar as it is just a product warehouse.
Now commenting on cash back and discounts you get ownership of stuff you buy. that gives you equity in your ownhousehold and gives you a chance to make you son rich than Albert sons.
Quixtar is common sense and which is rightly said is very rare. So, no grudges bro but all IBOs believe we have the best of best products on the planet earth and if you gotta guts ask us and try them out. If you don;t like them then shit around. Chao baby
Please keep the comments civil.
Thanks.
"Well since I'm so unoriginal, I'll do my best to make this the last time you hear from me."
Oh thank God. Which one of you negative nincompoops kept dragging this guy back into the forum with a gun to his head forcing him to continue posting his angry rants.
I hope Tony at least stuck around long enough to read Jonas' Dad's story. It's so sad and unfortunately in its format, so typical of what happens to couples in BWW.
DMM and others, (so many to name!) You can't say you didn't try. At least Tony's comments here are a shining example of someone who is "fired up." All this re-affirmed for me that I'm much better off without BWW in my life.
For whomever it was that said Qblog was the psychiatrist, I think it's quite a compliment to him to say so. Where else in the world can you get such therapy for so little... and he doesn't even have to advertize, tell any of us what to listen to or read, in fact, he doesn't solicit a thin dime from anyone! Wow.. he's a true philanthropist!
Ima
So many angry ppl here!!!
Scot, it sounds like you had an unfortunate experience at the meeting you attended.
I know on our team we don't pick up our guests unless they have no ride. This serves to show whether the person is accountable ( showing up when they say they would) and to see if they are really interested.
The rooms we use have always been close to the exit. And I have seen ppl leave during a meeting b4 and the speaker never misses a beat in his talk. This is not for everybody and we respect that.
Guest are generally sat up front but this is not to make them feel uncomfortable about leaving, it allows the speaker to interact with them without talking across a dozen rows of chairs or so. And I always sit with and invited guest so they are not alone up there.
Not to be mean, but we're supposed to be adults here, if you can't muster the balls to walk out of something you have no interest in regardless on how the room is laid out you need to work on yourself a little bit.
We tell the guest up front to wear buisness attire i.e. shirt and tie or suit and tie. This keeps the attire consistant and prevents Metallica and Dale Jr fashionwear from rearing its ugly head.
Besides, buisness attire does change your mindset, probably why corporate america lives by it. Not all but most.
Our speakers adhere to a strict time schedule so they finish at the time we tell the guest they would. This keeps US accountable.
Although some ppl sponsor anyone and everyone, I don't and many on my team don't either. We want ppl who are honest and accountable. This helps prevent hassles and downturns in our buisness and helps to prevent ppl fron having excuses to post in places like this.
Its unfortunate that ppl have had bad experiences with Quixtar and no doubt that some can be blamed on the ppl who got them into buisness.
There are good teams out there who are up front with new ppl and help them make an "informed" decision. We do use words and phrases that help bolster our buisness. But if you think we are the only ones, than you have obviously never
Watched TV,
Read a newspaper,
Read a magazine,
Bought a car,
Bought anything, anywhere, anytime
And to those ppl I say "you need to get out more often" :-)
In closing i'll say this. If the person who shows you this buisness opportunity does it right, you will have no trouble making an informed decision and if not, there are plenty of honest IBO's who would be glad to show it to you right.
Good luck to all (whether you're in or not)
And God Bless America!!
Rob, First let me say I agree with you on the volume of angry people here, on both sides of the fence.
I didn't write this and say this what every "open?" is like. I only stated what I observed in my experience. I understand your statements about people sitting in the front row and it makes sense, but let me propose this to you. Some people do not like to interact with strangers or in front of large groups. Why do these people not get the option to sit a few rows back and avoid interaction if that is what they prefer?
As far as your statement about being adult enough to walk out I see your point of view but consider this. Is it also not an adult behavior to be polite? To stand up and disrupt a speakers presentation in front of a room full of people would be rude to both the presenter and the people viewing the presentation. I still believe this is part of the reason for the placement .
An individual spoke earlier of quality of product and I will admit I only saw what was shown during the presentation. The speaker showed us some pamphlet in which you could order anything and the cost (15$) had already been paid. The material in this pamphlet is material that I can purchase and sell at the flea market for 10$ with a 100% markup and believe me the quality is not the highest. I do not state this to incite a riot I only present my impression.
To the Q members, is this representative of all thing items you sell?
Also I must admit I still have almost no idea of how this whole thing works. Below someone stated that they would not explain the program here. Why? Is it fully explained anywhere that I may read it? Again I do not say this to inflame anyone.
Scott
Thanks for the reply. Didn't mean to offend with the being and adult comment. I myself suffer from the "polite" gene. It just sounded like you were saying they ambushed you into staying.
As far as products and pricing. The exclusive products from the company are of the highest of quality. This sometimes dictates a price higher than one finds in a store. But then the items in the store dont often work as well as ours.
I have sold products, especially vitamins and supplements to friends and family that have had tremendous effects. Effects that regular store bought products didnt give them.
As far as the buisness plan and being able to put it in writing online. Not sure I could do it justice here. The person who brought you to the meeting should have given you literature that clearly spelled out how things work. I do this for guests who express an interest in knowing more.
You could go to the bww site and try to find another open meeting. I would suggest one from a different team than the one you have been to. It may provide a better explanation.
Hope this helps
Rob
Rob,
I have already had my first impression of the business plan from the open meeting. A
This guy nailed it! The presentation he sat through sounds like every single "open" meeting I attended as an IBO. Although I'm sure it doesn't matter, I'm curious as to where he saw the plan and from what organization. I was involved with MDI (Michael Diamonds International) headed by Scott and MJ Michael, and this presentation sounds exactly like Scott's plan.
I'm glad someone went to that meeting with his eyes open, and was kind enough to share his experience. Thanks for posting this, Qblog! I hope it gives some other unsuspecting "prospects" some ammo before they pull the trigger on their futures.
Posted by: Christy | May 9, 2005 2:43 PM