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May 26, 2005
DeVos Speaks - 60 Minutes and Amway
By QBlog in DeVos Speaks
"DeVos
Speaks," is special series that features comments made by Amway co-founder
Rich DeVos. Each DeVos quote is published without comment and includes a link
to the source material (for context) when available. This series doesn't have
a regular publication schedule but all posts are available under the Category
listing on the Archives page.
Well, let me give you the background on 60 Minutes, it might help you a bit.
We were first approached a long time ago. We tried to put it off. We told them we didn't think we were a good subject for the show, but they said they were going to do a show, with or without us. And we finally took it upon ourselves to say that if they're going to do it anyway, then we're not going to dodge it — even if it's a disaster, we're at least going to stand for what we believe and if they don't put our thoughts on the tape, well that's up to them. But we're not going to run from it.
We had no control over the people they used. They took tape from all over the country. They taped people on the West Coast, they taped people on the East Coast and they chose to run the portion they ran. Now, you may not have liked, or I may not have liked it — it's unimportant. That was their choice. The fact of the matter, however, is that what you saw is what was being presented at an Amway meeting. And I'm not going to knock it and say it was so bad — it's just that when you take a little piece out of a big meeting, it can look not as good as you'd like to have it. You know, if you and I sit in a meeting for three or four hours and we hear somebody say a few things like that, we'd applaud. We'd say, "Yeah, right on, and soar with the eagles — why not?"
But when ya suddenly see that little section, one minute long, taken out of context and flashed on a screen, it doesn't look quite the same. Does it? When a person stands up and says "I'm going to have a ring for every finger..." You know, I say sometimes at a Direct Distributor meeting where we're on a talk about getting ahead in life and having some of the finer things in life, that sounds pretty good. But when it's on a national television screen, as though it represented all of us, and that all we think about is greed, or money, or rings, or cars, or buses, or whatever, then it doesn't look very good.
- Rich DeVos, Directly Speaking - 1983
Comments
Funny, because if you read the book "The Dream That Will Not Die" there's a section in the book where Dexter Yager is going on about how he prepared for the interview, had coaching on how to show yourself on television and the like.
Does anyone else remember reading about that? I'm sure it was referring to 60 minutes because there was mention of Mike Wallace.
So that's a bit of a white lie when DeVos says they had no control over the people they used. They gave them big old Dexter.
DeVos is no better than any of the diamond thieves for allowing it to happen. Sure, maybe he's a nice guy, but his ethics are not beyond reproach by any means.
He's about as innocent as OJ.
This MLM model is doomed to failure from the get go. This whole 'tool abuse' is a bi-product. To actually imrprove that, they should get rid of MLM part.
Now Quixtar.com is open. We'll see how the thing goes.
On contrary, I really like some IBOs. And I like the way they do business. I wish all other IBOs could do that.
"DeVos Speaks," is special series that features comments made MY Amway co-founder Rich DeVos." (emphasis mine)
Did anyone else notice that this feature is published by a dead man?
PW
ok I understand PW is pointing out the typo..but I don't get the "dead man" comment. Did Rich die in the last few days?
I think PW is thinking of Jay VanAndel. AFAIK, Mr. Rich DuVos is still around.
If the person publishing this feature said RdV was "my" Amway co-founder, then the person making the comment would have to be Jay, since there were two co-founders and one was talking about the other.
C'mon, David. I shouldn't need to explain such a silly remark. (Maybe it's just not the best of days.)
PW
When I was having problems with my upline Emerald I went to my Diamond. When I explained that I was having problems with the way my upline emerald was handling my groups tool money and that it was unethical. My upline told me that "You know there is many different ways to define ethics".
Quixtar=Cult
>"C'mon, David. I shouldn't need to explain>such a silly remark. (Maybe it's just not the best of days.)"....From PW
Ohhhhhhhh Okaaaaaay....(light goes on, even though no one is there)
I get it now. Gee, I feel stupid now. And I know, it's not the FIRST time I've ever felt stupid, so no funny remarks.
I often wonder about certain things when I read "Directly Speaking" excerpts, such as...
Why don't the "I have a networking business and AmQuix is only my supplier" parasites respond to these blog posts?
Why do networkers routinely dismiss these tapes?
Why does some barely-getting-by Emerald in Podunk, Idaho think he know more about AmQuix than Ruch?
Just makes me wonder...
because, Mike, Rich DeVos is only an emerald himself. Rich and Jay never had more than five "platinum" legs.
"We had no control over the people they used."
Rich had no control over who CBS contacted. NOT referring to the idea that he had no control over people in the business. Duh.
Devos is billionare
Yager is multi-millionare
They have no control on what happens in the business ?
Imran, first you say MLM is the problem and they should do away with that model (like outlaw it?) but then you say that you like the way some IBOs do business and wish all did it that way? Well if you get rid of MLM, then there ARE no IBOs? Please explain.
Those IBOs are more toward real business. Retail and stuff. If MLM is gone, they won't do bad.
There's nothing wrong with MLM - I thought it was the tools you guys don't like. MLM is fine, its simply referal bonuses, like ANY company does, only ours are residual!
And tools are optional so your gripes are invalid!
MLM, well DS was fine like in 50s, where catalogue shopping was in. There was a fair chance for an IBO.
Now Wal-Mart etc. Kick ass in price, Bay & Sears kick ass in shopping experience. For "Honest Traders" aka retailers, it's hard to compete with them. Only some one with a "Big" dream would jump in to buy and find others to buy such an overpriced stuff. Tools are there to find such dreamers.
There are some inherent flaws in MLM Models. Well there are many flaws in many, in fact every models. Can we agree?
Flaw # 1: Too many middle men
Flaw # 2: Ppl with very less business experience trying to find other ppl with same knowledge to build a ....business?
Flaw # 3: Not accountable about a "franchisee" profitability, geographical distribution, and
MLM image in general.
Flaw # 4: No worries about attrition and PR.
Tony: Where do you prospect? In Malls? A, B list or in C List now?
MLM has some flaws, and for the most part, well never be more then a niche market.
First off, all manufacturing things being equal, MLM will be more expensive. MLM does cut out traditional middlemen, but replaces them with other middlemen called upline. And while traditional middlemen add value, upline doesn't add value to the product, but still get a cut of every sale.
In addition, without a large store, shipping costs with MLM will always be more expensive, on average. Store like Wal-Mart, Target, etc., track their shelves better today then ever before. They send the right amount of product to each store. Add up shipping per each item, and it comes to pennies. The reality is Wal-Mart ships a large number of units to a small amount of shops. In contrast, MLM either ships direct to the house, or to one upline distributor, but it's still a small amount of units to a large number of deliveries.
Of course price isn't the only reason people buy, but it's probably the number one thing most people look at. MLM just can't compare.
Another big problem with MLM is potential saturation. If price is the biggest concern, and the way to get the lowest price is to become a distributor (IBO), what's to stop all your customers from becomming distributors themselves? Of course, this is the justification of the "buy from yourself and teach others to do so" model, but we know that not only is this model illegal, it is also mathematically impossible for everyone in this system to profit. The end result is saturation and the loss of the ability to find end consumers, which are not only needed to be legal, but to be profitable as well.
In the end, MLM will never be more then what it is today, a niche market with the huge potential to be a scam. Not all MLM's are, but many of them are.
DMM> MLM has some flaws, and for the most part, well never be more than a niche market.
Imran> Which is not a bad thing, really, IFF presented that way.
That's the problem. To be profitable for the majority, it need to be in main market. To be profitable to be top, it needs to be presented as a venture of main market.
If presented honestly, it can only work for a limited number of retailers. That's all.
Guys,
Here's a question I have.
If MLM/direct selling doesn't work, why is affiliate marketing taking off like wildfire?
Affiliate marketing is just direct selling on the net anyway. Or are you guys going to tell me affiliate marketing is different than direct selling?
U r the expert on that Mike. At least compared to me. One of the flaws I see in direct sales is non-professional sales person trying to do sales and end up pushing / begging ppl in their circle of influence.
Affiliate marketing takes care of this problem. Almost. You know better on that one. But IMO person need to be a bit net savvy right?
How on earth does Quixtar stay in business?
I though what they do is illegal. They must have loopholes in their policies stating you must have 10 customers and sell 70% of every order before you reorder each month.
Like the FDA or Quixtar corporate will enforce these policies. I think the policies were generated to silence the goofs who bought enough soap to fill their gargages and then got pissed because they couldn't sell all of it so they could quit their jobs.
*Imran> Which is not a bad thing, really, IFF presented that way.*
Imran- does IFF mean if and only if?
*smile*
Shannon - I have asked the same question, too. According to FTC, wholesale buying clubs are unlawful. I think that what we see is "selective enforcement", the same principle that lets you get out of a traffic ticket -because of your winning smile- that I'd get nailed for...
Michael - direct selling/ MLM DOES work. I think that the majority of us here just want to see it done fairly, with a minimum of abuse. Also, I don't believe that affiliate marketing is infinite depth multilevel in structure - correct me if I'm wrong.
Imran - with 300MM people in US, arguably 100MM+ potential decision-making consumers - it's a HUGE market. Not to mention international. A good specialty MLM with a solid, unique product does have a chance, in my opinion. But it's not all things to all people, and shouldn't represent itself that way.
In my opinion.
Gosh - I took a few days up at the lake to wakeboard and chill. I didn't realize how much I'd miss you all.
Theres no way Rich Devos can be in control everyone involved in business with Quixtar. There are thousands of people involved and none of us work for him. He runs Quixatr which is who we refer business too. I dont sell anything just refer business, I dont stock anything, thats what quixtar does, and I dont distribute anything, thats what UPS is for. The business is not bad, but when your dealing with thousands of people your gonna find people that are bad. There are some great leaders involved with quixtar, as well as some that are greedy and look out only for themselves. I guess im lucky to be part of the team I'm part of.
Much as I admire Mr. DeVos for what he put together, I cannot help but believe that he created the environment that has allowed the abuses perpetrated by his organization to grow and fester. If he didn't agree with them, then why did he stand back and do nothing while his big pins raped and pillaged their downline for tools money?
If, as he says, one's impressions can be made by viewing "out of context" portions of Amway meetings, and those impressions are disturbing - then those impressions are probably accurate. Bacuause despite his beliefs, you and I know that the representations which are viewed as aberrant by Mr. DeVos are pretty much THE context of the Amway/Quixtar experience.
Light on content, despite all of the claims of "teaching." Long on materialistic fluff and "motivation."
"We had no control over the people they used." These words are telling. I'm not sure if this pissed Mr. DeVos off very much, but as a businessman myself, I know that I like to be in control (or at least think that I am). Imagine the meetings that he had with a bunch of control freak, ultra edified (almost deified) diamonds discussing this loss of control - do you think that there might have been a few clenched butt cheeks? 'Cause we know that this business is ALL about control.
Posted by: Keith Sr. | May 26, 2005 5:07 PM