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April 4, 2005
Monday Reader Mail: 38
By QBlog in Reader Mail
This edition of Reader Mail features a "letter" sent to Quixtar by an angry IBO regarding the redesigned Quixtar.com. I was given a copy of this letter, which seems to be a direct complaint about Quixtar's relaxation of purchasing restrictions. Apparently, Quixtar's former Web site only allowed purchases by IBOs, Members and Clients while the newer site allows anyone to buy directly from Quixtar, circumventing the "IBO connection." The "letter" is lengthy so my comments will appear at the end.
name: David D.
date: September 8, 2004
message: Dear Quixtar,
I must write you immediatly to inform you of this very unfair approach you have taken with your new redesign of the Quixtar web site. I have been around in marketing and promotions to long to know when I have been one upped. Your NEW design is only your NEW approach at market your products and recruiting clients directly using the internet. I may not be a web site designer by profession but I know how they work. You are breaking you own rule laid out for IBO's to adhere to 4.3.2 — may not use methods including tv, etc., computer communication networks including the internet, or any other means by which personal contact is not present to secure members or clients or to solicit the sale of products. The following however statement it is permissable provided such media or website meets rhe requirements set out in the IBO PROSPECTING/PRODUCT SALES WEB SITE BULLETIN.Which basically adds in that entrance to the website must be passcode protected to see, order or gain information about the company or product. YOUR "NEW" web site does not any longer.
It also states in rule 9.8 IBO Advertising (Mass communication, radio, tv, fax,bla bla, including the internet.)
Please see your Business Compendium to review these rules again.
I would also like to comment on the use of this method you were using prior to this "NEW" Quixtar web site. The old back door approach msut have been working so you got bolder and decided to take it blantaly and stick in your associates faces.
This that I'm referring to is in regards to making certain pages with major keywords attractive to the search engines. Which weather they are submitted to the search engines directly or not these search spiders would find your pages you left open.
Meaning you did not code into the web page to block the product page. Which upon placing an order for an item directly to the interested web surfer looking for the product to the Client register page. Easily prepared for anyone unsponsored to sign up.
NOW LET ME GUESS?
Your going to tell us and all the other IBO's you figure out your new scheme you were going to assign these new clients to certian IBO's. Right, something like that.Even if you thought you had a fair chance of making that idea work your "New & Old" web site had the ability to uncheck and opt out of be serviced by an IBO. Stealing business right under our hard working nose. Promoting your products and company while you skim off the very web site we support.
Another example of catch-22 in Corporate America, or "Do as I say, Not as I do."
SHAME ON YOU.
Obviously David isn't happy. However, my experience indicates that he's in the minority among IBOs. Most don't seem to care that customers can circumvent the IBO. And that's fine with me. Many seem to believe that the "average Joe" is unlikely to stumble onto Quixtar.com and buy anything. That doesn't exactly speak well of their E-Commerce (or I-Commerce) model but apparently IBOs don't mind.
However, here's something that really has me confused. Quixtar's business is ostensibly designed to "cut out the middle-man," "save on advertising" and pass that savings on to you — the IBO. Great! And the IBO gets a percentage of every sale (with various qualifications and restrictions in place) as an incentive to sell products and build his network (aka downline). There's some obvious sense to this model because without the IBO, Quixtar doesn't make money and is more than happy to "reward" its sales force with bonuses.
But when customers can purchase products directly from Quixtar.com, without any help or contact with the Quixtar sales force (IBOs), what motivates Quixtar to "assign these new clients to certain IBOs," thus distributing a percentage of that purchase back to the sales force? By circumventing the IBOs, Quixtar has cut out the middle-man, saved on advertising AND eliminated the need to give a cut of that sale to anybody. Yet Quixtar continues (for now) to randomly assign PV/BV to IBOs (presumably a Platinum in that area) on sales made directly from its Web site. My question is WHY? To honor the commitment to IBOs, right?
Well, what happens next year when Quixtar sells $200 million worth of products directly from its Web site? Don't you think those at the helm will seriously reconsider awarding a bonus for sales made without the help of IBOs? It may never happen, but it could. And that's what has me fascinated. Quixtar is inching closer to a true E-Commerce model and IBOs (with a few exceptions like David) don't seem to mind. Or maybe David is misunderstanding this change to Quixtar.com? Maybe I'm having trouble grasping the business model? If you can help out, please don't be shy.
Comments
Jonas, your feelings for quixtar or direct selling asside, if you do your research you'll find that very few vitamin supplements match the quality of the Nutrilite products. I'd suggest picking up some Nutrilite literature, some Brand X (say...Centrum or something) and taking them to your doctor. Ask him which would be better for you.
In most cases, especially with vitamins, you get what you pay for.
Nutrilite grows its own supplements, and for what they are, they are definitely a high-quality product. That, however, does not justify the huge markup on most of their product line, especially Double-X.
Also, there are ingredients in Double-X that are not shown to be so beneficial to the consumer (phytonutrients, for example) and which are touted to contribute so much to the superiority of the product that it justifies the premium price. As many testimonials as there are to the contribution of phytonutrients to health, there are testimonials that say they do nothing for us that we cannot get from our food supply. In other words, a higher price does not necessarily translate into a higher need.
Since there are no definitive studies that conclude that supplementation is necessary, we cannot make any claims regarding the "higher quality" of one brand over another.
And finally, if Quixtar continues to distance itself from the IBO force, we may see the day when Nutrilite supplements are sold in health food stores, competing directly with other brands. I suspect that if or when that happens, the price will decrease on XX or it will fall off the market in favor of lower-priced competitors. And in the meantime, IBOs will become truly independent.
PW
Is there a study demonstrating the difference in the effect on human health from taking Nutrilite supplements vs. other supplements?
If so, how much better is it? If the health effects are only slightly better, does that justify charging seven times the price as other retail brands?
It's "better" doesn't mean squat. You like because you sell it. How much better? How do you actually know it's worth the difference in price?
I believe Nutrilite supplements ARE superior to most other brands on the market, particularly for their tracability to the field/plant from which they were harvested. HOWEVER, I think XX has much too strong a concentration for MOST people. I know folks who have developed acne as a possible result from XX, and I question some other side effects as well. That doesn't mean one may not benefit from it, nor does that mean it is good for you, or that everyone should take it. Personally, I always opted for the Daily Free, as I didn't want all the 'extras'. In that regard, they are priced comparably to Centrum (plus shipping of course). The best suggestion is to check with your doctor. I'd be willing to bet that most will tell you a good multi is all you really need. And be very very careful of herbal supplementation - so much of it has side effects you may not even realize.
Anyway, if I were still a 'building' IBO, I would be upset about this - as David certainly is. Rules are rules - apply them consistently. That's one of the reasons Quixtar & the AMOs will falter..inconsistency breeds contempt and revolt!
I made no claims to what may be better for you -- personally, some people i know had stomach aches due to the ingredients in the old Double X. As of April 1, a new forumla was developed that helps allieviate some folks' side effects to it.
Some people don't need to supplement -- most do. The fact of the matter is, you can't simply bash a product due to the distribution of it.
I don't want to ruin your anti-Quixtar campaign, but, please make sure you never shop at Circuit City again. Or Office Max, Barnes and Noble, -- or buy any Sony products.
The list goes on. If you're boycotting it because some products don't meet YOUR specific needs, I think thats just silly. If you choose to use them, you will.
W/ regard to selling it -- OF COURSE. But the fact of the matter is, I didn't say OMG ITS BETTER TAKE DOUBLE X -- I said consult your doctor with the proper research and ask HIM for his professional opinion.
That's a silly strawman.
If Circuit City is selling something for four times the price as other are for a similar product, I want to know for sure that there's some good reason to buy it at Circuit City.
Of course, Circuit City doesn't do that.
Quixtar does. You say it's better and that justifies the increased price.
Since you seem to know its worth the higher price I asked you a simply question - how much better and how do you know? Your strawman dodge didn't answer the question.
I'll take it from your silence that you have no answers and you are just making stuff up to sell vitamins at outrageous prices.
Nice try.
Double X is good. Absolutely.
But not that good.
Not good enough to justify the price it costs. If someone can demonstrate to me the cost I will pay by NOT using Double X, then it may be a topic worth sober study.
Based on what DaddyMustbewrong is saying, and based on Lawdawg's last post, there is no information available to show the lasting differences between Double X ($51.85IBO cost, $75.05 retail (!) and my current GNC Ultra Magna (90 for $15.95 on sale)
Daddymustbewrong, what's the difference as far as performance to my body? What's the cost to me by NOT using Double X, other than the OBVIOUS savings?
Do you know?
This whole line of conversation evades the point of the blog entry. That point was that Q is apparently setting itself up to do direct sales to the public without the need for IBOs. David D. is reading the writing on the wall and giving his dissenting view about it to the corporation. I suspect that most IBOs are not aware of the implications of Quixtar's actions, either because they are simply not thinking about it or because they are being instructed not to worry about it.
There SHOULD be a benefit to having an IBO representing the corporation and its products, or else it would be stupid for Quixtar to continue having and paying IBOs.
Whether the products are comparable in price or quality with other brands will become moot if Q is unwilling to market directly to the public. They are apparently learning that they cannot participate or compete effectively in e-commerce and run their website differently than all other e-commerce websites. You cannot play tennis using a golf club - - or rather, you can, but you place yourself at an extreme disadvantage.
PW
Direct Selling is a logical outgrowth of the website. Part of the shift is ease of sales; as anyone wanting to buy would be able to buy without needing to learn (or remember) someone's ADA number.
As for the IBOs, they're giving the platinums and above some extra PV/BV to keep them going until the final break. The lower levels (directs and below) will be made to believe that the additional internet income is a benefit of rising up the Quixtar jeweled ladder.
What I'm curious about: Can you specify a specific person for the PV/BV? Let's say I want to buy some energy drinks (helps me keep awake at work) and want a specific person (if he's still an IBO) to profit from my sales. Is there a way to see if a certain person's still an IBO and sign in under his name? (and no, I haven't talked to him in years. I'd still want him to profit; it was circumstances, not Amway, that broke us apart).
XX to someone at, let's say a 4000 pin level, costs that person about $39.00, within the range of other high-end nutrition products. Why do people shop at Whole Foods and Co-ops where strawberries cost $6.00/lb when they can get them at Safeway for $1.99??? Same reason.
The whole point and purpose of Quixtar IBO retailing is service. An IBO doing their job need not worry too much about loss of sales.
I lack the medicinal knowledge to give you the break down of the medical reasons for why taking Double X will benefit you over other supplements. I can say that I do know per person, it will vary, especially if one person is not needing to supplement as much as the other.
My understanding, however, of the Nutrilite products is that getting vitamins from certain sources (say, ascorbic acid, vitamin C) (sources such as the acerola cherry) provide additional "things" (becuase I cant recall the term) that boost the effect of the vitamin C -- something test-tube ascorbic acid cant do. My understanding is that the natural stuff that accompanies it helps absorbtion rates, because when the body begins to get sick it slows down absorbtion while it fights off whatever it needs to do, so as much vitamin C wont be absorbed.
as far as the products? Try them, folks. If you havent already. Order some Double X, use it for 31 days, then send the case back to Quixtar at Quixtars freight and get your $82 back (shipping)
The $75 is only suggested retail...every 11th double X is free FROM QUIXTAR, not to mention the incentives your servicing IBO gives. If someone likes double X, I give them every 4th double X free. so after a year they've received 2 months free.
Let me say with regard to returning the double X:
Quixtar has a 180 day money back guarentee ...no questions asked. Try them, and if you notice a difference, decide if the premium price is right for your lifestyle.
If the difference is something you choose to live with out, then thats great, its not for you.
You seem pretty soured on Quixtar...is it because you dont like the Quixtar lines of products or was it a line of sponsorship that burned ya?
I know, locally here in Washington, there is no question that load for load SA8 saves my family money over our previous brand, Tide.
First. . .
"In most cases, especially with vitamins, you get what you pay for."
Then . . .
"I lack the medicinal knowledge to give you the break down of the medical reasons for why taking Double X will benefit you over other supplements."
In other words: "You get what you pay for, but I can't tell you what you are going to get but you should go ahead and pay for it anyway."
Nice sales technique.
Read the full context of the message, pal.
I told you the gods honest truth and told you to pick up some literature that explained all the stuff.
Yes, its good to know your products -- but I dont need to spend 2-3 hours explaining it to folks, when I can hand them some literature and let them do their own research
DaddyMustbewrong said:
"decide if the premium price is right for your lifestyle."
Shouldn't you say "Inflated Price", instead of premium?
In any event, if I buy my XX through the website, anyone below a Platinum is SOL for PV. Do all you IBO's think that's cool?
DaddyMustbewrong said, "I told you the gods honest truth and told you to pick up some literature that explained all the stuff."
You obviously have this literature, why not scan it, so I can see it? Just email it to me, or show me a link so I can see for myself. If it is in fact the God's honest truth, no problem, right?
If you don't, then I will have to assume that DaddyMustbewrong must be wrong.
Good to see you again Emminemm. Back for more?
Emminemm, I think it's safe to say that the majority of IBO's never achieve the 4000 level, so you're comment about how competitive XX is just doesn't wash.
Swing and a miss.
"You get what you pay for..."????
I think the selling price has "a little" to do with the high SG&A associated with paying the numerous ambots in the pyramid, ladder, whatever you bots are calling it....
Therefore you really aren't getting what you pay for unless you get a bunch of XX-filled, XS-crazed sheep in a box on your doorstep.
NO THANKS!
still a significant discount off the $52 even at 2500 bozo. Ever been THERE rocket? Or do I have to keep lowering it for ya!
I'm gonna repeat: Why do people shop at Whole Foods and co-ops where strawberries cost $6.00/lb when they can get them at Safeway for $1.99??? Same reason.
You haven't explained your distaste yet
Why are you so against people making their own choices, criticizing other products of choice?
My wife and I were in the business for five years. We bought and consumed Double-X consistently. We know about the price and the ingredients. We toured the Southern California factory and the fields. We have the literature, and we've read it.
My wife is also a doctor who has looked into the efficacy of Double-X and supplementation.
Why should you feel someone should necessarily have to buy the product to have an opinion about it? People make purchasing decisions all the time without having to buy and try every product available in order to make that choice.
Do you think my five years (or the shared experience of others here) means nothing to my knowledge of the product or the business? Please don't be so presumptuous.
Contrary to what you may have been taught, we are not ignorant here.
Oh, and money-back guarantees have nothing to do with it. You might try getting out of sales mode and addressing the issue of IBOs being cut out of the sales loop by the availability of direct sales to customers through the website.
PW
Members have been able to do that for quite some time -- that is, jump Lines of sponsorship -- why do people care if clients can now register without a servicing IBO?
Great question. Why do people care? I don't. But David D., an IBO, one of your brethren, cares very deeply. So, why does he care? I don't know specifically. He tries to explain the "why" but I'm not sure he gets all the way there.
However, you're here so maybe you can articulate why you don't care, within the context of David's letter.
I don't 'prospect' for one -- okay, so everyone I see is not smoeone whos going to be a client of mine.
Do I meet people? Yes. I'm a people oriented guy. I'll talk about what I do, have fun with them and hang out. As they ask questions, I tell them. However, I make them ask something to the effect of "can you show me more" or "can we talk about that more" -- it simply increases the stickiness.
Whats the point of sponsoring someone if they're really not serious about building it? No, I endured too much of that in the beginning.
Why I don't care?
Well, if I get oknow somoene and building the business isnt for them, if they want to get some products (and a lot do, if they're around me they get to use my stuff a lot, of course they cover the cost of their goods so I dont overly sample out of my pocket). A few folks have asked where they can get more, and I point them to my site and/or Quixtar. The fact of the matter is, having people being able to register with Quixtar REALLY wont affect me, and I dont see it affecting any of my downline...
What line of sponsorship did you fall under? I'm within the B. Duncan organization
Personally and in response to the main thrust of this post, I - if I were still an active building IBO - would be quite disturbed by this change. I would wait and see if more trends start showing, but it would definitely cause me some concern.
Cheers,
Clifford - aka - IBuyOnly
Another post to add to this menagere {sp?}.
If I were truly still in the hunt for new customer(clients)/members(prosumers)/potential IBOs(new sheep to shear) - I would be bothered because it would seem that the company that we have been supporting with our hard earned dollars is showing a sign that they will not always need nor - in my opinion so don't flame please - desire the IBO to market their products.
Like it was postulated, this might very well be the correct step on the growth of the I(E)-Commerce site.
Gives me some pause though.
Once again - Cheers,
Clifford-aka-IBuyOnly [also formerly active in the B. Duncan line]
Nope, never hit 2500 big Em, and I'll save you some time, I never even hit 1000. Not a lot of people do, based on what I've seen. And the $52.00 is IBO cost, not retail. When selling to clients, do you mark up?
Anyhoo, I'm not sure if you get what's going on here, so you may want to read what your company is up to.
They are not looking after you, the hard workin' IBO whose primary purpose is to create volume for them. Do you get it?
Not sure about your little strawberry example. I don't know why people would either. I guess you're smarter than them. But if you were half as smart as you thought you were, you'd demand answers from your company, not me. I'm not the one that's going to send you to the beaches of the world.
And evidently, neither are they.
DaddyMustbewrong, I can criticize the price of things all I want if I don't think it is good value. You clearly don't have a good grasp of why XX is such a great value.
I do, however have a good grasp as to why I think it's a rip off. I don't think you can honestly say you've never had someone balk at the prices you offer before.
I've never had someone who has done their research EVER balk at prices. The way people become clients of mine usually leads to a few weeks of research.
Your reason for thinking its a 'rip off' seems nothing more than 'omg I have an opinion I can whine'.
Check out urbandictionary.com and look up QQ.
Do you have a study of the retail market for these products that justifies the price purely from a market standpoint?
If so, who conducted it and what was the methodology?
Also, for those who aren't selling these things and who don't have a vested interest in promoting them at any price, here's a little information to give you an idea of what's really going on. The vast majority of these Amway products (80%) are sold to the distributors themselves for their own consumption. According to Quixtar's own data, half of the whole IBO "sales" force quits every year. Yet, despite all these former IBOs who must have been satisfied with these awesome, valuable products (at least a million former IBOs just since 1999 - do the math) there is still only .23 members/clients for each IBO. That means that for every FOUR IBO "buying from himself" as part of the buyers' club pyramid scheme there is only ONE actual customer - despite a 3:1 ration of former IBOs to current IBOs just since 1999.
What does that mean? It means people don't join as IBOs because they like the products. If they did, they would continue buying them after they quit. It further means that the predominant reason they did buy the products was because they were IBOs participating in the income scheme. That's why they don't continue to buy after they quit.
And, BTW, that's a 3:1 ratio of former IBOs to current IBOs in North America if we just look at the period since 1999. But if we look historically, there has always been (since 1972 at least) around 350,000 distributors for this company. There has always been approximately a 50% quit rate every year. Indeed, the number of North American distributors in 2004 is THE SAME AS IT WAS IN 1972 despite this supposedly being a growing recruiting business based on networking with new, satisfied customers.
Given that data, there are approximately 175,000 new FORMER IBOs created every year in North America. Since 1972, that means that there is almost 6 million former Amway/Quixtar distributors created by the business opporunity compared to 350,000 CURRENT IBOs or ratio of 18:1. That would seem likely to generate a large pool of retail customers - all those former distributors who loved these great products. But it doesn't. Despite this HUGE market that's been exposed to the products less than 20% is sold to non-distributors.
The market is talking - nay, yelling - it does not have much room for Amway/Quixtar - neith its "business opportunity" nor its products.
Those are the facts.
The reason IBO's under platinum shouldn't like the new set up is because it cuts them out of the loop. Let's say you aren't platinum and you prospect a customer. You give him a sample, literature, etc. You spend your time cultivating a relationship. Being web-savvy, this guy goes online to Quixtar and decides yes, he will buy a product or two, but he doesn't put in your IBO number. You did all the work, put in the time, but yet have nothing to show for it. On the contrary, some random platinum now has a bigger bonus check and money that by all rights should be yours. He did no work, but got paid, and you did the work, and got zip.
Concerning supplements, I'm in the school of thought that unless you have a marked deficiency diagnosed by a doctor, most, if not all supplements are a waste. People are meant to chew food and slowly digest in order to take in nutrients, and for a normal, healthy person, any supplement is like spraying a fire extinguisher to put out a raging fire. Just not wide enough to get the job done, which is why most of the pill will go right through your body, and give you no effect whatsoever. Sure some pills may be better then others, and XX being made from real food helps, but it is still in pill form, not chewed, and probably just passes right through a person.
That's why my vitamin budget is zero. I'd rather shop at the local farmer's market and get the nutrients from real, tasty fruits, veggies and whole grains. And it's not like I take a lot of time doing so. And yes, I do pay a little extra from time to time, but it's for a couple of reasons. One, I get the food a little fresher. It's worth the cost. Two, often times the food comes from organic farms, and I don't have to worry about pesticides or other chemicals. And three, the food often comes from smaller, local farms that I don't mind paying a bit extra to support over larger, corporate owned farms several states away.
Quixtar, on the other hand, gives me no real reason other then claiming superior products as a reason for their higher prices. And in my opinion, the products aren't worth the prices. In your opinion they may be, but then again, quality is subjective.
"Sure some pills may be better then others, and XX being made from real food helps, but it is still in pill form, not chewed, and probably just passes right through a person.
That's why my vitamin budget is zero. I'd rather shop at the local farmer's market and get the nutrients from real, tasty fruits, veggies and whole grains. And it's not like I take a lot of time doing so. And yes, I do pay a little extra from time to time, but it's for a couple of reasons. One, I get the food a little fresher. It's worth the cost. Two, often times the food comes from organic farms, and I don't have to worry about pesticides or other chemicals. And three, the food often comes from smaller, local farms that I don't mind paying a bit extra to support over larger, corporate owned farms several states away."
Any number of things have trouble with absorbtion, but there are certain things you can gain (and forgive me, I'm at work and its slipping my mind) from eating various plants and such that help increase the absorbtion and retention rate of the vitamins.
Thats one of the reasons, as I was mentioning, for the production process of Nutrilite products coming from plants from start to finish.
There are some (and I use this word because I lack the proper scientific term) compounds/substances that come from natural foods that help absorbtion, as I mentioned.
With regard to shopping at local markets and fresh/organic food -- A number of people, myself included, are not so fortunate to have local vendors like that, or the price of supplementation with Nutrilite is actually cheaper than going and getting the 'proper' real food. Mind you, I do eat healthier these days, trying to maximimize my benefit from the Nutrilite products I take. I figure why eat like crap if I'm going to supplement.
The result? I feel all around better, I've lost quite a bit of weight, too. My overall energy level is up -- and its noticiable, if I stop double x for a few days even eating healthier that there is a change.
As was mentioned, its always best to consult a doctor before supplementation and making sure things are right for you.
DaddyMustbewrong, you said:
"I've never had someone who has done their research EVER balk at prices. The way people become clients of mine usually leads to a few weeks of research."
Who would be someone you consider has done their research? Anyone who is on XX, or anyone who decides to buy it?
If they don't balk at prices, I would presume it's because they have something to gain by using them (and I don't mean their good health, I mean financially)
In my opinion, and in my friend's opinion (He's in the health supplement industry) the XX vitamin is NO BETTER than any other multivitamin in the $20-$25 range.
Do you sell XX at retail, or do you mark up the price for clients? If you don't charge them retail price, then why not? Will you provide me with a scan or link of the literature so that I can see this from your eyes? Because I just don't buy into what you are saying here. Maybe that would help your point you're trying to make.
Lawdawg makes a good point. Where are all the ex IBO's now? Why aren't they still buying this ultimate vitamin, with all the benefits you proclaim?
Obviously, it ain't all that.
And if someone buys XX through the Quixtar web site after you go through all the trouble to convince them that this is the BEST supplement on the market, wouldn't that piss you off?
It would piss me off.
The literature is all available at www.nutrilite.com and www.quixtar.com. Related links can be found there.
My clients who take Double X pay suggested retail. I use the retail markup to give them incentives, typically I give back 40-45% of the retail markup, especially on Nutrilite products. I also service them at their needs. I have a great relationship with about fifteen solid customers, and a few more who shop here and there. I consider it my job to provide them with all of the necessary information that they need and service them with what they want. I have NEVER asked someone if they had considered *such and such*. Just not the way my business operates.
In my business, I have one IBO who takes Double X. The rest don't. So, no, my primary Double X consumers do not have anything financially to gain.
Let's recount Daddymustbewrong:
You like Nutrilite and think it's worth the price, but you are also in the business of selling it for profit.
You can't point to any objective or third party data that shows a difference in the effect Nutrilite has on the health of its customers versus the effect of taking other brands of supplements that are sold for 1/4 the price.
You can't quantify how MUCH better Nutrilite is. Just that it's better and therefore people should buy no matter how much it costs.
You have no answer for Quixtar's own data showing there is no real market for these products (less than 20% is sold to retail custoemers even though there are literally millions of former IBOs who have been exposed to the products).
You don't appear to be making any progress.
Besides -- this happened with one of my XS clients. I was drinking XS at work, a coworker wanted to get some, googled it, and found Quixtar.
They then registered as a client and browsed around. Saw the QUIXTAR plan from them, came back over to my cube not less than an hour later and said, "hey I registered, but I'm not under your number. Whats your number so you can get credit?"
I guess you can't do anything to stave off the right people. Shes now an active "pro-sumer" that has a few retail clients.
And before you keep shelling out the cute antecdotes, let me remind you that this is supposed to be a business.
Data is required. Antecdotes may be good enough for selling herbal penis enlargement pills, but real businessmen want data.
Where's the data?
My data on what? How many clients that I've spoken with that are consuming quixtar products that *IVE* put the work into talking to?
1.
Big whoop?
The Nutrilite advantage?
www.nutrilite.com
for other links on health and nutrition,
http://www.nutrilite.com/english/IBO/GeneralInfo/Links/doc3456f.asp
Do some research and reading. If you refuse to and keep repeating "show me show me" -- No. I'm not interested in serving you, those who already have their mind made up
That's the only defense of your great business and products?
I've demonstrated, with Quixtar's own data, that there is very little market acceptance for these products. A real businessman looks at data suggesting that the products are not priced comensurate with the value the market gives to them, and is very concerned about the viability of a business attempting to sell them. At the very least, he would get market data to dispel what appears to be a major problem with these products in the marketplace before he wastes his time selling them.
An Ambot, on the other hand, says: "Well, golly geez, my cousin Malvert sold some to Uncle Billy Bob. They must be derned good products." Or something along those lines.
lawdawg: you got the objective or third party data to show me the advantage of spending 2-3x for organic food??? No??? Why not??? Nutrilite is supposed to be held to a different standard??
What a stupid argument you make. Organic food is a huge business, despite the cost.
I repeat: Any IBO doing their job correctly needn't worry about losing clients through direct ordering through the website. This has been proven with other marketing venues as well. You do not necessarily lose customers because the product is available through an alternate means.
Well I guess anecdotal evidence comes in to play then -- None of my clients are family members.
With regard to the 'market' -- I'm more than happy with 15 nutrilite customers. It offers me a 9% bonus check on my retail personal circle alone and is rather profitable, not including any other products.
I don't need to be "the man" with everything I've got, I'm not in the vitamin sales business. I distribute various products. I'm more like google...shrugging my shoulders saying, "Good question, I dont know but try these guys"
It may sound silly and you may not agree -- but thats the jist of it. Google is 200million queries a day at an estimated 30-50 billion dollar worth.
Painting all people involved with Quixtar is extreme -- it would be akin to saying all people involved with religion are zealous fanatics that want to commit mass suicide to reach the almighty afterlife. That simply isnt true.
Get clear on your criticisms -- are you attacking Nutrilite, the Quixtar plan, or the people?
To me, it sounds like you're attacking the prices. Great, set your retail price to something more reasonable for yourself. $55? 60? I dont know what that is. But if you're unwilling to pay it, then don't.
Do you have the same arguement over XS? Which, by my last check, is Quixtar's #1 SKU?
$25.06 after shipping in my general area -- If I went to a store and picked up a red bull or similar energy drink, it would be $2.25 approx. $ 2.08, retail, a can.
Hows that for price competitive? After shipping?
Ah, and XS is owned by Nutrilite now.
Ah...which is owned by Access, which, you know, is a subsiduary(sp?) of Alticor.
So which division are we attacking?
With regard to "quixtar's market" not growing on average -- I can do nothing to help other IBOs comply with the rules of conduct and help them get retail clients. My business operates within the rules and will continue to do so. I also make my greatest focus with my downline to develop clients before going wide, because those who have been sponsored as singles need to get profitable. If they do not get profitable, they're in and out without ever DOING anything.
You can't quit if you never start. And the folks who never started WILL never start.
Why start duplicating and sponsoring people if you've got nothing to duplicate? All that leads to is people squandering their $47.25 registration fee.
Again, I think it comes down to how people approach the business. I don't know where the term "Ambot" came from, but those people sound more like "Amroids" and now "Quixtoids" who treat it like some late night MLM instead of a real business opportunity.
Em:
STRAWMAN!!!!!!!!
I'm not trying to sell organic food. Nor am I recruiting people to go into business selling organic food.
The Scarecrow of OZ would be proud of your last argument.
I'm not attacking anything. I presented some data that conveys a clear understanding of why this "business opportunity" is so generally despised and ridiculed as a household joke, and why so few people have ever succeeded in it (relative to the number of people who have tried). Looking at the histoirical sales and recruiting data - it is obvious that there are major problems.
You can hide your head in the sand, but if you position is, you don't care that there are major problems, it's not going to affect you, then you are acting imprudently.
Fact:
Despite being an exploding new business concept based on referral marketing of fine, competitvely priced products and the recruitment of "pro-sumers" the number of distributors in North America is roughly the same as it was in 1972.
Fact:
Less than 20% of the products are sold to people who aren't signed up as distributors.
Fact:
According to Quixtar's data, on average there are FOUR IBO's for every registered retail customer (member/client).
Fact:
There are millions of former distributors/IBOs who have been exposed to these products and only 350,000 current IBOs, yet Amway's data showed that distributors still purchase more than 80% of the products for their own consumption.
Fact:
Very, very, very few former distributors continue to buy the products after they resign indicating that they do not buy the products for the virtue of the products but because of their involvement in the so-called business opportunity.
Fact:
"Amway" threw away and tried to distance itself in North America from a 40 year old trademark that had become a household joke.
DaddyMustbewrong said
"Your reason for thinking its a 'rip off' seems nothing more than 'omg I have an opinion I can whine'."
Some day, not long after youre done with Quixtar, youre going to remember this conversation and youre going to feel like a complete idiot.
Lots of people try a lot of businesses -- very few succeed. My friends parents closed down a McDonalds, not because it wasnt working, but because of the massive time investment and hard work that had to be done.
Does McDonalds not work?
How can you paint MY business with the same brush as the rest, when mine follows the rules not only of what is taught in our line of sponsorship but the very rules that are set out by Quixtar itself?
Let me phrase what you're saying into my interpretation
The average quixtar IBO fails to make money
The average quixtar IBO does not retail products
The average IBO quits
Okay. Thats great. I assure you what I am about to say is not from a tape or CD I've listened to, so don't write it off as "system dribble" or whatever
But I have ZERO intention to be like my friends, following their path.
They're great people and I love them as friends but I refuse to go out drinking every night.
Whats the difference between me, the IBO who is making the business work as it is taught and the rules say and the guy who has not done what is taught (OR WAS NOT TAUGHT DUE TO LOS ISSUES)?
The fact of the matter is, I refuse to fail. I had over 100% grade in all of my classes -- while the class AVERAGE was 72% (drastically dragged UP in most of my classes by myself)
I'm making it work, honestly, legally, and within the rules, and I am with a great team of people who are doing the same.
All I am asking is why are you letting EVERYONE dilute those few who shine above the rest?
Public schooling must not work because the high school drop out rate is so high.
Hell, my senior class, the dropout rate was 46%, and the remaining folks, the 67 top students of 379 carried the class averages up almost a full point.
80/20 rule? i think so. 50% quit my high school, too. 20% of those that remained did the work.
amazing
BTW, Em, what you fail to recognize is that the response to your argument about "organic food" is in the argument: lots of people buy organic food - it's a "huge business."
By contrast, as the data shows, very few people buy Quixtar products unless they are distributors, and they didn't become distributors just to get their fine products. If they did, then they would continue to buy products as retail customers after they quit. Yet, they almost all quit (half the "sales" force every year) and there is not a large contingent of retail customers as one would expect given a ratio of 18:1 for former IBOs to current IBOs.
That's the market talking about your business. If you were wise, you'd listen.
lawdawg: have you ever tried to grasp the concept of an analogous example??? Every time you guys get something explained to you that way, you holler STRAWMAN! You NEVER are able to answer it! Your huge point about the high prices, DESPITE THE ORGANIC AND BIO-DYNAMIC methods of growing Nutrilite's ingredients! The price is JUSTIFIED as MUCH AS ORGANIC FOOD IS MUCH HIGHER PRICED! AND ORGANIC FOOD SELLS!!!!! Can you GRASP that concept????????
The numbers are skewed by people who don't engage, anyway. I recall starting out I had registered eight IBOs, and I kid you not, the next day they had quit.
They never ordered a single product.
Obviously I did something wrong, and my approach was surely wrong in the early days. But , the ambitious folks that i know that HAVE started out as clients are kicking butt in a great retail business.
Remember, they define "active" IBOs as someone who attended a meeting, attempted to show the IBO plan, made or ATTEMPTED to make *A* retail sale. That and the average income per IBO is laughable. $115 a month
Thats a great indicator, the way I look at it, $115/mo is more than nothing. One guy I registered went out and not two hours after he had registered did someone approach him (approached *HIM*) to get an eSpring water treatment system. he sold 6 momentum boxes. that was over $130 in retail profit. In a night
honestly...
gota head off site, ttyl
AND QUIXTAR PRODUCTS DON'T SELL. CAN YOU GRASP THAT CONCEPT? Almost all of the products are sold to the distributors for their own use and they stop buying when they quit.
It this really so hard for you to understand, Em.
Organic products are expensive. But real, retail customers actually buy them. The market places enough value on them that enough retail customers buy them to make distributors a profit.
Quixtar products are expensive. And real, retail customers generally do not buy them. Even among those who joined and know about them stop buying them when they quit being IBOs. That strongly suggests that the market does NOT place enough value on Quixtar prodcuts to make selling them to retail customers a profitable enterprise for distributors. What do you have to demontrate otherwise? Antecdotes . . . antecdotes . . . antecdotes . . .
I gave three reasons why I would and do spend extra on organic foods. First was nutrition. Second was less or no pesticides, and third was supporting local farmers. Other people buying organic food probably have similar reasons they buy.
So what, praytell, are the reasons why I would buy from Quixtar? Are the products better? In my opinion, no. Are they cheaper? Certainly not. Am I supporting local businessman? Debatable, since the products are manufactured someplace geographically far, and the majority of the money spent on my purchase would go there, and not in the pocket of my local IBO.
The entire point lawdawg is making is most people do not see the advantage of buying from Quixtar, even if they formerly were distributors of the product. These people, in theory, are the most knowledgable about the product and once they quit selling Quixtar, they quit buying Quixtar. If there was true value in the products, don't you think people would continue to at least buy the Quixtar products? But the reality is, strip away the potential financial gain, and most people, including former IBO's, see no reason to purchase Quixtar products.
Well, I've got 15 people who see value in them. I heard a stat from an upline diamond that less than 5% of all people who registered "last year" (being 2003) ever received a bonus check.
They're certainly not doing whats taught, and aren't achieving any retail sales on top of that.
Not a lot of people I know keep 'buying' services from college after they drop out -- they may try to go again a few times, but they don't actively stay involved, continue to use their services like libraries, study halls, etc.
Why then, if they saw the good behind those, would they stop using those services?
You're shaming yourself trying to justify 'why it wont work'
Quixtar has worked approaching 6 years now, and Amway another 40 before that. Its working for someone out there. People are still going Diamond.
"QUIXTAR PRODUCTS DONT SELL"
My 15 SOLID clients (70-120 pv/mo apiece) would beg to differ.
In addition to the products, they're getting SERVICED. HIGH TECH HIGH TOUCH -- One gal I know, all that she buys is SA8, LOC, and GLISTER products. She gets them because I deliver them to her house and they're great products. We chat for a little bit, and I go.
but she loves it. She loves the gift albums, the notes, cards at important dates....
theres an example.
But does it bother either of you Daddy-O and Big M that Quixtar can have Platinums and above profit from your efforts, should customers decide to buy direct? It should.
BTW, you both fail to convince anybody here that the excess $$ spent is worth it on any Amway product. Maybe it's because we don't want to be convinced, maybe we've shut out any good that there is to hear about Amway/Quixtar.
Or maybe there's just not that much good about it.
Maybe.
Mr. DMW and M&M,
Since you guys are determined on convincing that quixtar works, can I ask you a few questions.
1) How long are you guys in Quixtar?
2) How much did you invest in those so-called 'SYSTEM' expenses?
3) And how much did you make?
If you are still in red, then do not give your a*&hole diamond tapespak here. All your high school analogies and average people analogies are from some idiot up the pyramid.
If you cannot/will not answer these questions, I will assume either you are MORONS hiding from truth or CON ATRSTIS trying to deceive people.
BTW why are you posting here? Isn't time for you to chase people at Malls?
Prasad.
Another strawman argument from Daddy with the college metaphor. College isn't a consumable item like the items Quixtar sells. College isn't for everyone, but I would hope toilet paper is. The differences are just too great to make the metaphor stick. A similar argument might be how many former Wal-Mart or Target employees continue to shop at at their former employer store after they leave? I bet it is much higher then the number of former IBO's who quit and still buy from Quixtar.
As for who's buying Quixtar, in my opinion, it's a niche market. There are people out there who will pay the prices for the products, but it's not easy finding them, and good luck going diamond as a retail IBO. You may make a nice secondary income, but I doubt you ever make the financial freedom the diamonds like to talk about.
Good luck indeed. Yes, its a nice secondary income for the time being.
I've been operating my Quixtar business since last August, I recently added it up for taxes -- I have spent roughly $800 on tools/functions/gas/hotel
I made $319 retail my first month, not including bonus check. The only products I bought for the first two months were freedom fuel addtiive and CURVE colonge (which was cheaper than at the local store, so that was cool)
My second month, I made $440 retail + a nicer bonus check. My second month I sponsored an IBO, but he never earned a bonus check and decided to pursue other options after two months.
Third and fourth month I didnt put much time into it, it was the holiday time after all and people are busy enough shopping. I let people know about the gift incentives and some folks bought those, and my friends boss bought almost $1000 in retail profit of those. I didnt even talk to him about it, my roommate had his boss clal me.
So, yes, its profitable if you do it right.
am I upset at my 'massive' overhead Ive spent on functions? $165 for FED/Dream night, + gas, + the cost to split a hotel. Gas elsewhere, opens, samples, voice mail...
I dont understand this "OMG I lost my shirt cuz they make money on tools" came from.
After my first month I never have had an out of pocket expense.
Also, we get paid for 2 things -- Creating volume and developing leaders.
Creating volume with retail creates great profitibility.
Once that has been developed, duplicate yourself and develop leaders. Leaders are people who create volume and develop leaders.
If it takes me ten years to go diamond, thats still an extra few hundred thousand a year.
I'll tell you something, a personal circle of 2000 with retail outside of your IBOs and personal use is VERY profitable.
I'll let you guys know what sort of super sekret stuff platinums know...but somehow I doubt they're holding back a lot.
As far as listening to 1 cd a day/ 7 a week on tools (because I know thats what people like to say costs money)
Buy 1 (or borrow , i borrowed a LOT) and listen to it each day. my upline never told me i couldnt do that. helps with retention.
So what pin are you Daddy-O?
Missed 4000 by less than 50 PV last month.
"One gal I know, all that she buys is SA8, LOC, and GLISTER products. She gets them because I deliver them to her house and they're great products. We chat for a little bit, and I go.
but she loves it. She loves the gift albums, the notes, cards at important dates....
theres an example."
All I want to know - Is She Hot?
Daddy O,
"My second month, I made $440 retail + a nicer bonus check."
What pin did you hit that month? Did you MAKE $440 retail PROFIT, or did you SELL $440?
Because according to the plan, at 7500 PV, you're SUPPOSED to make $2000.00
So by that, you should've made over $1000.00 on your best month, just shy of 4000 PV.
Funny you didn't mention that.
But not too funny.
I think your interpretation of the plan is incorrect.
Also, when I say retail profit, I mean retail profit, not sales.
The plan does not account for a LARGE retail personal circle -- the plan is a 300 point circle, teach 6 to do 300, they teach 3.
Perhaps you're thinking its a 6 4 2 still.
The plan shows personal use / retail at 300 points. 300 pv x a rough approx of 2.8 (bv) is roughly $840 SPENT.
follow me here, 300 pv is 6%, 840 * (0.06) = $50.40 + retail/wholesale markup of approx 34% (across the board average) you're looknig at $50.40 + ~ $260
for a net profit of $310 on a 300 point pv circle.
Second month was over 600 pv, which is 9% bonus structure. There are no pins awarded below 1000.
It is entirely possible to build a 1500 pv circle in retail clients. Assuming the average (not 100% highest pv/bv ratio items, but average) you're looking at 15% of 4200 (2.8 x 1500 is the rough pv/bv ratio at the moment), thats a $630 bonus check + your retail wholesale markup
You never sponsored anyone.
Never showed the plan
never went to a meeting
never went to a function
never listend to a tape (although there are some good merchandising tapes available, but it IS your uplines responsibility to train you, and it is YOUR business)
and put that in your pipe and smoke it, Prasad... (maybe the smoke will come out the other end!)
Same goes for you rocket.
Em-bot said (a long way back):
"I'm gonna repeat: Why do people shop at Whole Foods and co-ops where strawberries cost $6.00/lb when they can get them at Safeway for $1.99???
Whole Foods and the stores of that kind sell specially grown (organic, vegetarian, etc) foods to serve a niche (although it is a large niche) market.
The strawberries at Safeway are probably mass produced/grown whereas WF has organincally grown.
So it is the consumer's choice to decide between they strawberry they want to ingest.
As this relates to the A/Q pricing:
The pricing there is marked up (WAY UP) to cover the PV/BV bounuses to the pyramid/ladder/whatever.
It has NOTHING to do with product differentiation. The processing of vitamins has been debated in numerous other posts. You can check them out on your free time.
So, you are paying too much to give yourself and others (who had little if nothing to do with your role in the value chain) a bonus.
Why not just save ALL of the money in the FIRST place. Why line the pockets of total strangers?
Calm down em...this isnt a 'battle' about 'us' vs 'them'
Im trying to understand where we fell off the pipe here.. I may not have all their facts and they may not have all of mine.
df, I hate to give you a small history lesson, but Nutrilite existed as a network marketted product before A/Q picked it up.
You know this, yes?
Let me warn you Dmbw, these folks are well-versed and well-trenched in their views. Their facts, or more rightly, their experiences, will not allow much negotiation, or seeing a differing point of view. You say up, they say down, you say the sky is blue, they say it's green and on and on. Other people's facts will not account for much here.
That's the bottom line.
...back to the original topic...
rocket, how can it bother an IBO that a Platinum gains some profit from an online sale? It's not taking anything-- clients or business away from that IBO. As Dmbw has given in his example, service is the key to acquiring and retaining clients.
On the contrary, I believe these types of on-line sales do get the product out in the public realm more, thus increasing visibility for the brands. Upon contact with an IBO at some point in the future, that customer will most likely move their business to the IBO for several reasons, namely service, and the IBO also the option to sell at a lower price.
Currently Quixtar doesn't really spend much in advertising dollars or focus any marketing strategies to the general public. Therefore, general consumer demand isn't automatic. Advertise and market Nutrilite in Whole Foods and it will sell just as good as anything there, price notwithstanding. It's not the price, guys. If Quixtar slashed prices in half tomorrow, I doubt it would have much effect on sales volume. Yes, Quixtar products may be a niche, (as with the organic strawberries), but it can be a growing and profitable one at that. Just like Whole Foods. After all, we're not claiming to take over the world like Wal-Mart (but that's a different story we won't revisit tonight).
One more tip for marketable products: Check out the Trim Advantage protein bars and the XS line. Ive had kids approach me wanting to know where to get XS because Im drinking one, simply because they played the Hoffman paintball or whatever it is and saw the 2 XS fields. Or they know about XSV -- the #1 or #2 paintball team in the world (professional) and they wana get some xs gear and use XS products. That, and people like them.
As Deano said "Finally, the cool factor has hit the kwon factor"
The products are very marketable. Many of them market themselves (The example I gave of the eSpring purifier, XS, and more)
Take away the non price competitive products -- nutrilite, hands down, Ill say flat out NO is not trying to compete with centrum, especially in price.
But I know XS per can is priced VERY competitively. I know the sports drink like gatorade is, as well...and it comes in sugar free.
for epople who are into protein bars, the TA line is awesome, they taste actually GOOD and dont have 30-50 grams of sugar.
The Trim Body System itself -- Ive managed to move five of these based on my results alone...people asked what I was doing, I said I was doing the trim body system that I market, handed them the flyer and they purchased it.
but what am I saying? Quixtar products dont sell :P
DaddyMustBe Wrong said:
"The plan shows personal use / retail at 300 points. 300 pv x a rough approx of 2.8 (bv) is roughly $840 SPENT.
follow me here, 300 pv is 6%, 840 * (0.06) = $50.40 + retail/wholesale markup of approx 34% (across the board average) you're looknig at $50.40 + ~ $260"
I'm gonna ask....
300 PV personal circle... means what you bought right? and you got 6% refund "bonus" on your $840...plus you got the markup profit of $260? You bought at "retail" price to get a higher bonus so that your "retail price" would be given back to you as profit? Is that what they teach now? I'm assuming buying at "IBO price" and paying $580 for product and not getting the 6% back on the $260 "profit" you are effectively moving from your right hand to your left hand is not as nice looking to the bottom line. But how do you make profit on sales to yourself? Isn't that just an Enron waiting to happen?
Regards,
Roger
You're missing the whole thing
The idea behind the personal circle is personal use AND retail
AND RETAIL
Hey, that was so good I feel the need to repeat it.
AND RETAIL
That means everything including your own use in addition to everything that you retail to clients.
I'll give you an example: I'm a single guy, I do 1 load of laundry a week, ergo, a box of SA8 lasts me for 100 weeks (effectively 2 years)
I drink XS instead of my redbull now (and thank god, tropical xs and cherry xs taste a heck of a lot better than redbull...and this time it even tastes like cash) and some sports drinks.
I dont go through hordes of toothpaste and stuff, but i do use it - it sjust a very slowwwww rate.
So?
I retail and make up the difference.
The best part about retail is that you can use that personal retail markup to incentivise your shoppers. my clients like getting other products and/or gift incentive albums, which equates to more *ding ding* PV.
Instead of going to fastfood every day, grabbing a latte for $4, I'll grab a $2 XS (or if im feeling zealous, 2 $2 xs omg !) and either a meal or protein bar. Its healthier than that double cheeseburger, and both the XS and latte taste good.
some months ive done 100pv personally, some ive done 20.
But the retail is the key.
Also, I see "TEAM" in your sig -- I am not familiar with the teachings of the Team of Destiny. I make no claims as to what they teach in that line of sponsorship or the validity / intent of it.I know what i teach and what my upline teaches.
lawdawg,
Have you ever read nutrilite.com research studies? There are some great informative articles on nutrilite. Better check with the better life institute as well to see what they think of nutrilite products.
lawdawg, who cares who buys product, as long as someone is buying-and using the product right? I really don't care if I am distributing at 100% wholesale volume. I am not out to compete with wally world or GNC or costco.
lawdawg, let me ask you this,
does quixtar differentiate PV/BV from clients or IBO's? NO! PV/BV is PV/BV.
Daddy - O
I find your claims at the ease of retail hard to believe, but if you say so, then you say so.
Pardon me, but I have NEVER heard of retailing being an integral part of the plan. Not too many people out there are interesting in becoming a peddler of overpriced (and overhyped) products. But, apparantly, you aren't in it with the mandate of sponsoring, it would appear. I am quite certain you will not be able to build it to diamond with your method, simply because you'd be hard pressed to find 6 people to generate the volumes you are claiming, especially when retailing Amway products is not exactly on the top of most people's to do lists. Sorry. Sad fact.
By the way, what does cash taste like?
Emminemm, if service is the key to maintaining clients, how can you make that profitable. I mean, there is a reson that most real businesses do not do door to door deliveries of knock off energy drinks and toothpaste. Because in the real world, it's not profitable to do so. I would be curious to see how many people would sign up to become salesmen. You know as well as I do that not many would. I'm sure there's a little bait and switch going on.
Get 'em in, then show how easy(!?) and profitable retail is in Amway!!!!
You can talk about visibilty all you want, but the current media is what people listen to during football games, prime time shows, etc. It sounds like you have no problem with what the company is doing to you, which is creating competition.
Not too many people could be sold on a certain brand by a hyperactive little geek in a business suit running around after dinner trying to pawn off his magical energy drink and talking about what a great life he's going to have when he gets 6 other nerds to do what he's doing.
Do you show the plan with retailing at the top of the things you need to do to succeed in Amquix guys?
M&M, you are right if I put all that BS and smoke it comes out of my other end that means it comes out of you.
Whether or not I go diamond is dependant on finding 6 folks who want to go platinum.
Okay, thats fine.
with regard to retailing, they can do it however they want.
Did I say retailing was a piece of cake? Hell no. But I make sure I emphasize that when I say put in the work and you'll get paid, I mean it frmo the bottom of my heart.
Now to flip the coin here, even if I never go diamond, why would I care? This past month I made $6 more net than I did from my 40 hour a week job (mind you, the situation there is a PIA due to managers being deployed and corporate reorganzation)...but I'll tell you what -- I've officially 'passed' my job income with something that I havent put more than 12 hours a week in of work (14 if you wana include travel, but I do a LOT of email communications)
For those who "aren't salesmen"
okay. thats great. But could you retail 50pv so you can get a bonus check? If not, and you're unwilling to learn to retail 50 PV...then I'm sorry, you're great people...but perhaps it isnt for you. I know a lot of people who $300-500/mo would be a GREAT boost to them
Local sports teams that suddenly get a huge boost in funding because instead of buying gatorade the kids buy sugar free XS.
With regard to putting the emphasis on retailing: YES!
A lot of the people that have seen my plans *ARE* young single guys. I explain to them "look, i'm in the same boat and you may be thinking thats a lot, but I'll let you know that this personal circle there is personal use AND RETAIL, and that retailing is taught so that you make that up with 10-20 clients"
funny, because the 10 clients/50pv thing is kinda...ya know, a rule.
I was under the impression that this was not a way to make a couple bucks, but a way to build a financial future.
I'm sorry. I wish you luck, but the odds are stacked against you, because of the prices, and the bad name that you're working under.
There are case studies of directs and platinums that HAVE done the work, and did not get the reward. If what you say is true for you, you are one in a million to be sure. I know I'm not sold on your story, but I'm sure that doesn't matter to you.
A bunch of young single guys running around selling Amway. Must be real popular with the ladies........
So I removed the system, you insulted the products. I removed the products, you insult the plan. I remove the plan, you insult my stories. I remove my stories, and you insult my personal life?
Come on man. Do you have any decency? Can you just say "great, I hope it works for you good luck I wont be doing that my self but amybe itll work for you" or just "good luck". And to be honest? My personal / sex life has improved dramatically since I began. But I dont want to make that claim, or you might insult it saying its "AQMO propaghanda" or some such trash.
As far as the one in a million -- cool. At what point did I say I wanted to be like the million? I didnt -- I want to be the one.
Yes, its working for me, and as my downline start realizing how profitable running retail is, it doesnt really bother me.
If you've heard the name Dave Sevren, before he went diamond twenty some years ago, he had hit a plateau at Ruby and didnt even move on to Emerald for something like 18 months.
But he hit that point where he didnt move on at 84,000 PV a month.
How excited would you be if you were getting an 84,000 PV /month bonus check?
Can we get past the bashing and just get you to neutral on something?
Im not asking you to read the magic of thinking big, but to stop tearing down what is and has worked for me, honestly, legitimately, legally, and within the rules without violating the RoC.
So, again, I state:
"The pricing there [via A/Q] is marked up (WAY UP) to cover the PV/BV bounuses to the pyramid/ladder/whatever.
It has NOTHING to do with product differentiation. The processing of vitamins has been debated in numerous other posts. You can check them out on your free time.
So, you are paying too much to give yourself and others (who had little if nothing to do with your role in the value chain) a bonus.
Why not just save ALL of the money in the FIRST place. Why line the pockets of total strangers?"
Why?
Why?
Why?
I don't care about the origin of the products, I want to know why you would be willing to pay more handouts to a bunch of 'strangers' in your pyramid/ladder/upline?
Why indeed...........
Daddy-
These people can't get past anything in here. I've TRIED explaining to it to them but they just don't want to hear an IBO's point of view. They want a place online to complain. The moment you point out they are wrong and they know you are right, they go to the personal attacks. I have since figured out why alot of IBO's don't post in here- cause its redundant to try and explain a really simple business model to them, they just won't get it. Qblog gets it, but some of the posters don't get it.
Personally, I like coming in here for encouragement- I love doing something that can't possibly be done and doing it anyways. I am sure alot of IBO's are doing just that if you read the Achieve Magazine.
Rocket, as far as price is concerned I don't really know if you have studied the MLM industry or not, but alot of MLM prices are far higher than the average products than you find at wally world, mainly because of A) The extroadinary quality of the product that you just can't find in stores and B) the compensation plan determines the price of the product in MLM.
Lawdawg,
Who cares who's been "exposed" to this business or not? Your facts and figures are really useless. Besides, just where did you come up with those asenine figures? Usually you provide self promoting links or amquix.info misinformation.
As far as the post about who really cares if quixtar allows ordinary consumers to shop at quixtar without a servicing IBO- hats off to quixtar! They debunked anti quixtar people about being a buyers club. Even if I wasn't an IBO, I would still be a client-and thats a major factor when choosing an MLM company.
Here's a question I would pose to quixtar though, just where would that PV/BV go if there wasn't a servicing IBO? Maybe it could go into some sort of profit sharing account for all IBO's who are platinum's and above?
df--- don't you also then have a problem with paying huge prices at a Whole Foods? You know, that money is probably going to a bunch of over-paid corporate vice-presidents and marketing managers and ad agencies, not the barely above minimum wage, non-union stock clerks and cashiers? The ones who's sweat and labor is going to line the pockets of the higher-ups?
Even your lowly breakfast cereal-- about 12 cents is product, the rest is goes to corporate salaries, ad agencies, etc. Are you second guessing that as well? You should.
That's corporate America, bud, get used to it. What did you want-- socialism?
"don't you also then have a problem with paying huge prices at a Whole Foods?"
No. The premium I pay is percieved as *value*. If I want gourmet veggie dishes or organically grown food, I know there is a premium that I have to pay. But I *value* that product enough to pay for it.
" You know, that money is probably going to a bunch of over-paid corporate vice-presidents and marketing managers and ad agencies, not the barely above minimum wage, non-union stock clerks and cashiers?"
That money gets paid to everyone who adds *value* throughout the distribution chain. It isn't my responsibility to oversee the distribution of wealth for anyone other than my family.
"That's corporate America, bud, get used to it. What did you want-- socialism?"
I know more about corporate Amercia than you probably ever will. My BSc, my MBA and my 15+ years of experience in the working world would most likely blow away any sort of credetials you might try to pose here.
I don't want socialism, I want *value*. Paying a bunch of other sheep in a pyramid isn't a value to me. The fact that the sheep are just there "grazing" from your profits shouldn't be a value to you either. Maybe, if you educate yourself in the right channels, you'll understand the true nature of free markets.
Daddy-O
How did you remove the products? The plan deserves to be insulted, simply because it's misleading when shown by most IBO's. Your plan, I don't know about because allegedly it focusses on retail. Great. I just can't see people coming in droves to sell Amway. I don't see how I insulted your stories. I did make a joke about single Amway guys that I thought was pretty funny. Feel free to make jokes about people posting negative comments about Amway. I mean, if you can't laugh at that, how well could you possibly respond to people who look at the Amway prices and laugh at you? (before you even tell them about shipping costs)
In any event, the fact that you take that little dig so personally only supports my theory that you do not retail nearly as much as you suggest.
I see your responses are very quick. Are you the new and improved Chris? He didn't do too much other than this either.
You must be paid by the post. Good for you.
Paid to post? No, but sign me up in that department. I post on a lot of forums, and have for many years.
I show the plan exactly as I was taught.
The plan doesn't deserve to be insulted. RDV and JAV created an opportunity for folks to have an equal playing field, with basic emphasis on selling (key word) a consumable product (soap) to and servicing (key word) them as a customer.
The plan says that if you help someone pass your profits, you in turn will reap a greater benefit for training them.
How that is not a cool deal I don't know.
With regard to the personal jab -- No, frankly I don't really care, but I begin to question the character of people who try to tear down every aspect of my life. People tore me down before this business, despite the fact that in school I had over 100% in all of my advanced placement classes/ computer classes. They tore me down because of the way I looked, they tore down my problem solving ability and intellect.
Yet they rely on me, almost on a weekly basis now, to help them with their computer problems. Almost thirty "friends" who want nothing more from me than to use me for my knowledge of computers. And I serve them, with a smile. And I always have, even before this business.
Now I get into this business -- people tear me down and say its just another Awmay, itll never work, etc. My best friend criticized me saying I'll never amount to anything in the business and I should just 'be a kid' and go out and drink, party, and do drugs to 'have a good time.'
I don't know whats going to make him shut up, but leaving my job paycheck and my bonus/retail checks side by side on the table per his examination didn't stir him, which is amazing to me.
He doesn't know what Amway is, he doesnt know anything about the system. He saw the plan from my upline emerald, went out and got drunk and forgot about it.
Honestly, you come on here and try to tear down any and every aspect of people. What a sad existance. Because I choose to achieve in any area of my life does not mean I should be ridiculed, even if its just a small little jab. I'll tell you what, one bee-sting may be an annoynace, but thousands add up.
People in this world are constantly trying to tear things down. Why not build people up?
DF, well played.
Based on your education and experience, you could likely school these 2 in reality.
Oh, to be 20 again. I could be driving my Mustang around with Dexter Yager tapes blaring about some girl he dated in high school, going door to door with my buddies delivering knock off brand cereal and food bars.
We could try to get high off sweet shot too.
Your equal playing field is nothing more than a fairy tale my friend. Look here:
http://www.baron55.com/
Also, do you really feel that it's a level playing field with Platinums getting PV for web purchases and nobody else? That's fair?
The fact that people can buy Amway products without you, the IBO who this entire business was created for?
The fact of the matter is people can buy Amway products without you now on the internet. That's what this is about. Don't you get it?
Amway doesn't need you, and they are proving it!!!
I'm sorry for your emotional scars Daddy-O, but it's pretty clear that millions of people would agree with the anti-Quixtar view. You need to understand that there are a lot of people who think Amway and Quixtar suck. There are a lot of people who think the prices are too high. There are a lot of people who don't even want to hear you out if it involves Amway.
I hope you succeed at whatever you choose to do. But understand this, if you do succeed at Amway, more than likely it will be at the expense of many others.
Michael: "Besides, just where did you come up with those asenine figures?"
The figures for the low (less than 20%) retail sales percentage and the ratio of IBOs to members/clients are asinine figures I got from the Corporation. The former used to be part of the SA-4400 and is referenced in an article in Forbes magazine. The latter - the absence of real customers outside the pyramid of distributors comes from the Q-12 Platinum Index published by Quixtar.
As to the number of North American distributors being the same since 1972, I got the number of distributors in 1972 from the Federal Trade Commission. I got the number of currrent distributors from a Quixtar press release late last year.
As to the rate at which distributors quit (50% of the whole sales force every year), that also comes from the FTC and is confirmed in Quixtar's Platinum Index data.
As for the number of former IBOs in North America, that's simple math. There were around 350,000 distributors at any time since 1972 and 50% quit each year (and are replaced by new ones) according to Quixtar and the FTC. So 175,000 former IBOs are created in N.A. each year. Multiply that by 33 years and you get about 6 million former distributors compared to only 350,000 current ones.
And the absence of retail customers or any significant percentage of products sold to non-distributors means that these 6 million people must not like your products enough to continue buying them after they quit.
If you think of the web face as just another distributor, then thats really not an issue.
Ex. Crossline gets a retail client. thats 1 less person that can get products from my business. Big whoop, move on.
Without a servicing IBO, the client really doesnt gain the incentivized shopping and personal touch, which yes, is one of the benefits explained in the plan as a client.
It may be a niche, but I can fill it.
OK, I just spent nearly an hour reading these comments.
I'm not quite clear on why we're all bashing Daddy. He's one of the infinitessimally small minority of IBO's who is allegedly not losing money, because he RETAILS. Good for him.
Sure, most of the products are overpriced, and most will never have even a niche market. But obviously the guy has found a few things he can RETAIL and make a profit (assuming his prospects don't lose his card with his IBO number and simply log on and give the business to some anonymous Platinum), so good for him.
The question in my mind is not whether some people might be able to make some money if they actually sell some products. Clearly, it's possible.
The questions are:
1) Is a 'diamond-lifestyle' achievable in a retail-based business?
2) Do you really want to support an organization which derives most of it's profit form sales to it's own self-consuming sales-force (a hallmark of illegal pyramids, according to the FTC), knows it, and doesn't care?
3) Once you have introduced your friends and family to 'the system', is it OK with you that your upline is making more money off 'putting their butts in the seats (at functions)', than with helping them achieve whatever limited success is available?
4) Do you want to be involved with a system that prommulgates lies and deception en masse, even if your little sect seems to be somewhat sheltered from it?
Others can add to the list. Lack of retail is a huge problem in most LOS, but it's only the tip of the iceburg. And just because something is profitable, doesn't make it right. Ask Al Capone.
As far as "being involved with"
I am an independant business owner. While I may on occasion consult with others, I am certainly not in bed with them.
As far as the system money goes, at least with my LOS. I'm somewhere between 8-15 in depth. We have really lost count -- but it was taking a LONG time for our group to get our tools. Our Ruby used part of the system money, (which by the way is referred to as tool distribution allocation, and is intended to help platinums stock a certain inventory of tools to have on hand) and started shipping the tools directly, (our tools came from out of state, then the LOS went to another state, back to the original state, around a few people there, out of state again, around a few people, and then finally to my state--needless to say this process took WEEKS even if the upline shipped /picked up the same day they received)
I know whatever supposed 'kickback' he gets for the premeire membershipsis lessened for myself-- simply because he's using $20-50/mo to send my groups tools out.
Regarding the diamond lifestyle from a "retail" business -- my business isn't built any differently than others should be
Diamond as has been taught to me the whole time I've been in the business:
Ruby volume (develop until about 23,000 pv)
then
Train and develop 6 leaders to move onto platinum/ruby
drive depth breaking legs of platinum.
You always want to have ruby volume outside of any platinum you have.
Thats what ive been taught, and thats what I will do, and thats what I will teach.
I foresee no reason whatsoever with the Quixtar model (I dont know how it works w/ Amway ) if you are doing ANY retail at all why you would not make profit.
CK:
My point is simply that, from purely a business standpoint, there is serious reason to doubt the market viability of these products outside the world of IBOs buying points.
Will some be able to sell them? Of course. Will some people even be able to do very well niche marketing certain products? Certainly.
Does that make it a wise investment of a salesman's time, money and skill? No.
Lawdawg,
Lets continue your idea about 340,000 people having formed some form of bad feelings about quixtar/amway. Lets for a moment assume your numbers are correct. How many people currently reside in the United States currently?350 million?
Ok, using your facts and figures, that means that less than .001 of a percent percent of the population have formed any sort of opinions about quixtar. Just how many of the 350 million people even know about the business? How many new people are coming into the country on a daily basis that's never even heard of AMWAY? How many have even heard of MLM for that matter?
Secondly lawdawg, If your worried about other people's opinions, I suggest you stay out of any type of business.
CK, why don't you look over what the FTC ruled about Amway back in 1976? They ruled that it wasn't an illegal pyramid. I suggest you get your facts straight.
Well, it took me an hour to catch up on all this posting, that I guess I started.
"DaddyMustbewrong", got these comments going way off subject from the post. But, I want to respond on my opinion of the vitamins, which I did take while I was with my wife.
I don't want to sound vulgar, but I noticed my urine turned freaky florescent green...that can't be good! She said it shows it works. I said it shows my body is getting rid of a lot of whatever was in those vitamins, because it didn't need whatever it was.
So, I'm paying more money for a "superior vitamin" and then I'm flushing most of it down the toilet. I might as well have flushed a twenty dollar bill down the toilet.
Doctors tell us to drink lots of water to flush are systems out, when our urine is clear we have cleaned our system out of toxins. Well those vitamins are about the opposite. I don't care what anybody says, their a waste (literally) of money!
Michael, I understand that that Amway was acquitted of some of the charges brought against it in...let's see...I think it was 1979, but then a guy who makes snappy one liner's accompnied by little substance and
'get your facts straight' surely already knew this, yes?
You reread the case, and reread it in light of 2005. The FTC ruled that Amway (perhaps narrowly?) avoided becoming a 'pyramid scheme' because of the "70% rule". Namely, Amway had a rule requiring distributors to sell the product (70% of purchases) to an end consumer, and that Amway enforced that rule. They don't have quite the same rule anymore, and they don't enforce retailing at ALL, (although I suspect they will soon start picking off some low-level 1000 PV IBOs in order to give the appearance of attempting to enforce retail sales).
OJ SImpson was found not guilty once, too.
Absorbsion is something that may be an issue if you aren't consuming enough water. I noticed this in the begin with Double X, too, but upon doing my homework realized that I wasnt drinking enough water. Once I upped my water intake, it cleared up , and the overall feeling of wellness increased as well
That may be something you want to try
On a side note, most folks are dehydrated
I was scratching my head when “DaddyMustbewrong� gave us his Quixtar progress report…
Let me get this straight… He has operated the business for 8 months, but only had expenses for 5 months according to him (no out of pocket expense the first month and didn’t even work it during two months of holidays); so, 5 months divided into $800 is $160 per month for expenses.
He sold approx. $840 and made $319 profit the first month. He sold approx. $1025 and had $440 profit the second month. He spent no more than maybe $75 on items for two months on cologne and fuel additive, with minimal profit back to him. He received at least $1000 total profit for the third and fourth month, which means approx. $2350 in sales from one guy’s boss.
What about the fifth through the eighth month?
That’s some amazing numbers!
How many retail customers does he have? How much does the average guy spend on non-grocery items (other than x-drink), every month?
Let’s look at the second month, which seems more typical. He made approx. $440 and had $160 in expenses, so that’s really $380 for a month. If he is an average IBO, working 15 hours a week times four weeks, that’s 60 hours divided into $380, which comes to a whopping $6.33 an hour for his time….He could have done better spending his time working at McDonalds! Considering a “smart� guy like him, who was top of his class, he probably could make $20-30 an hour with a “real� J-O-B. Or, even better just relax and enjoy life, go fishing or watch the sun set or something. Are you working to live or living to work? You’re wasting your prime years, spending your discretionary time doing Quixtar. Idiot!
Reading comprehension just isn't your strong point, Michael.
Nowhere - I repeat NOWHERE - did I state that people who quit Amway/Quixtar have a bad impression of the opportunity.
Moreover, NOWHERE did I say that there weren't more people joining everyday.
Read, Michael, that's all I ask.
What I DID say, is that the fact that there are 6 million former IBOs who have been exposed to Quixtar's products and Quixtar's data shows that very few of are buying the products compared to the relatively small number of current IBOs, it lends to serious doubts about the value the market places on Quixtar products.
As far as worrying about other people's opinions - I hate to break this to you but other people's opinions and the values they place on things ARE WHAT MARKETING IS ABOUT.
You said:
"You're missing the whole thing
The idea behind the personal circle is personal use AND retail"
I say:
I agree. Retail is the key. most of the mysterious meetings being used in the curiosity approach around here (in Amway's home state) claim no retailing.
I was just looking for clarification of your post... It looked as you were explaining that you personally do 300 PV. you spend $840 and get $260 profit from selling to yourself.
Roger
you said:
"Also, I see "TEAM" in your sig -- I am not familiar with the teachings of the Team of Destiny."
and I say:
Well, watch out for them...they are the fasting growing group in all of Quixtar, and are supposedly the only group to have gotten a person to Diamond who was never affiliated with Amway. (meaning he joined after Q was launched). I have no proof of either, and neither do the various TEAM players who have stated as much in the past... but why would they lie? And Orrin Woodward's secondary business and his teaching of "buy from yourself" has been approved by Quixtar. At least according to his various postings that he has had on his sites... they come, they go, they come back, they go again. He's like that.
Cheers,
Roger
Daddy,
See what I mean? The moment I expose them and their flaws they accuse me of not comprehending what they are saying, or that I am "twisting" their words around to make them look bad.
Lawdawg, haven't you learned by now you can't change people's opinions? You can only change the way how you react to their opinions.
And btw you did say and I quote-
'The market is talking - nay, yelling - it does not have much room for Amway/Quixtar - neith its "business opportunity" nor its products.'
To which you were implying that former IBO's leave the business with a bad impression of the opportunity.
Yeah I am reading you loud and clear my friend.
you said:
does quixtar differentiate PV/BV from clients or IBO's? NO! PV/BV is PV/BV.
and I say:
that's one of the problems.
you said:
I'm not quite clear on why we're all bashing Daddy. He's one of the infinitessimally small minority of IBO's who is allegedly not losing money, because he RETAILS. Good for him."
and I say:
I wasn't trying to bash him. If he's legitimately retailing then more power to him. Hard to believe it if he's plugged into a tools group...they usually focus on IBOS buying tools, and recruiting...not selling to outside the group.
I am quite impressed by the friend who was approached by someone two hours after signing up who wanted to buy a water filter system. I mean wow.... someone knew about the water systems, and saw a brand new IBO (must have been wearing his big "Q" sweatshirt) and walked up and wanted to buy from him. I'm sorry, that's a little too hard to swallow. Heck, the new IBO two hours after signing up doesn't even know about the water filter systems yet.
BUt hey, retailing is the key.... tools are not, wish TEAM could figure that out....but they are following the Yager teachings as taught by Yager to Woodward... the 10-years to get to Diamond guy who says he'll teach you to do it in 2-5.
Cheers!
Roger
Your reading comprehension sucks. I made $319 retail not including my bonus check.
And when I say I have solid clients, I mean I get to "go away" and they keep shopping...and shopping...and shopping
Month, after month.
So really, my 10 hours or 15 hours or whatever it was at $6.43/hr turns into 7...8...9...
well how long can they shop? $40/hr?
$50?
Get your head out of the sand and realize that a McDonalds doesn't turn a profit for quite some time, but people stick with it because eventually it will.
If you build THIS business correctly, the sales become residualized and that money comes in from work you put in months/years ago.
Oh Moses smell the roses!
Here we go with the glib McDonald's analogy again. McDonald's doesn't try to get every customer to buy a franchise.
I honestly thought you were above resorting to that Daddy-O. If you are retailing, good for you. If you are up front and honest about your "business", then good for you.
If you think you will be able to achieve a diamond lifestyle by retailing products, well not so good for you. I for one do NOT believe you are retailing what you say you are. I know you will say that you couldn't care less about what I think, but I mean seriously, I'm not sure many people would believe that.
I did try retailing, and I can count on one hand how many retail customers I had. I am not a shy person, nor do I have any problems talking to almost anyone. Hell, when I thought the products cost too much, how the heck could I be surprised when others thought the same? Must not be too many sharp people in your neck of the woods.
I am QUITE certain I am not alone in my disbelief of your claims. Also, I'm pretty sure that people don't want to get into Quixtar to retail Amway products. If people want to sell stuff, there's lots of options that far exceed the Quixtar retailing opportunity, like Ebaying, private consulting, pumping gas, or collecting bottles in the ditch.
I am a naysayer, and you won't change my mind, you're right Michael, Daddy-O. But if you DID have a good argument, you could.
But you don't.
The point was the businesses invest time and invest money, then reap the rewards long after that intital investment is gone.
Spare me your inpudence. You do not 'believe' me. Thats great. I do not 'believe' you. Now we're equal.
DMW is obviously lying. Instead of hanging on the board, giving imaginary sales figures, why doesnt he go out and sell the DREAM? I guess, according to these AMBOTS, if you scream loud on these boards, people will magically come and buy the overpriced crap from these guys. Would any of the AMBOTS willing to show their Schedule C here? Guess not. "It is PERSONAL" But lying to people about residual income is OK.
What a bunch of brainwshed idiots.
Michael, did your mom drop you on your head when you were young? Go upstairs and ask her.
My origianal quote: 'The market is talking - nay, yelling - it does not have much room for Amway/Quixtar - neith its "business opportunity" nor its products.'
You said: "To which you were implying that former IBO's leave the business with a bad impression of the opportunity."
I wasn't implying anything of the sort. I was stating exactly what I've said about a dozen times in these comments and that you still do not understand. It is not a negative attitude toward Amway/Quixtar on the part of former IBOs, it is a lack of value in the market for Quixtar products and its opportunity as exemplified by the fact that the large population of people who HAVE been exposed to these products CHOOSE not to purchase them unless they are current IBOs. Which strongly suggests that they only have fair market value for those who give extra value as a result of their participation in the scheme.
DaddyMustbewrong just magically had sales of over $800 a month from his magical customers the first month, he said he didn't even have expenses the first month. Then those sales just magically increased, and he had some expenses on gas and expenses for dropping off the product, etc. And then things just got better from there? How do you do it?! I mean, move over Bill Britt, Dexter Yager...we have a new "prophet"!
Come on, tell the truth, give us proof. Nobody in quixtar will have that kind if immediate success.
Your not investing in a growing business. Your investing in a growing CRIME, stealing poor peoples hard earned money to fill the pockets of jerks in your upline, who don't give a crap how this "business" ruins peoples lives. How are you going to defend all the collateral damage Quixtar causes?
Go read my story. Give me something to tell my son, Jonas, when he asks why mommy is doing what she's doing.
You folks having fun? Hope so because you're the only ones reading this nonsense.
QBlog Said:
You folks having fun? Hope so because you're the only ones reading this nonsense
I say: Huh?
But as for the McDonald's reference.... yes, some McDonalds fail. For whatever reason, they don't do the business expected (hard to believe) or maybe the owners don't like what they are in for and don't run the business very well. (more likely).
But what percentages of McDonald's close in the first year? What % of them are at the level of "success" after 2-5 years that they thought they would be when they started their franchise?
Not 50% like Quixtar and certainly more than the .001% who have reached "diamond". And that is a number that is not even fair cause no one has made it to Diamond in the last 6 years! And the Diamonds that are still around (who actually still rate to be called
Those who know my story will know how outrageous it was, when my ex approached me several times about buying vitamins from her, after she left me. She must have been desperate. Anyway, she did her whole sales pitch and I actually checked up on her claims in the hopes of catching her in a lie. When I told her about how outrageously expensive they were and I could get cheaper stuff retail, she commented that as an IBO she got a better price than what was advertised on the Q site. So, is that the catch? Buy from an IBO, get a better deal or was she just desperate to meet her sales quota?
By the way, I would rather die an awful death for not taking my vitamins than support Quixtar and buy their vitamins.
Posted by: Jonas' Dad | April 4, 2005 3:43 PM